Beneath Your Bed Podcast

Beneath Your Bed is devoted to all things mysterious, the paranormal and true crime. Along the way, we we’ll be drinking cocktails and sharing the sordid details of our Appalachia upbringings.

http://beneathyourbedpod.com

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episode 10: The Pixie Behind the World's Best Known Tarot Deck [transcript]


Chances are you’ve seen, or even own, a Rider-Waite tarot deck. But have you ever stopped to wonder about just who is behind the deck’s iconic artwork? Tonight we delve into the life and work of little-known artist Pamela Coleman Smith. 



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 2020-12-09  35m
 
 
00:00  Speaker 1
Chances
00:01
are
00:01
you've
00:01
seen
00:01
or
00:02
even
00:02
own
00:02
a
00:03
rider
00:03
Waite
00:03
tarot
00:03
deck.
00:04
But
00:04
have
00:04
you
00:05
ever
00:05
stopped
00:05
to
00:05
wonder
00:06
about
00:06
just
00:06
who
00:06
is
00:06
behind
00:07
the
00:07
decks
00:07
,
00:07
iconic
00:08
artwork
00:09
tonight?
00:09
We
00:09
delve
00:09
into
00:10
the
00:10
life
00:10
and
00:10
work
00:11
of
00:11
little
00:11
known
00:12
artist
00:12
,
00:12
Pamela
00:13
Coleman
00:13
Smith.
00:20  Speaker 2
Jen,
00:21
how
00:21
are
00:21
you?
00:21
I'm
00:22
doing
00:22
well.
00:22
How
00:22
are
00:22
you,
00:23  Speaker 1
Jen
00:23
?
00:23
I'm
00:23
doing
00:23
good.
00:24
I
00:24
have
00:24
some,
00:25
I
00:25
have
00:25
some
00:26
good
00:26
news.
00:26
Oh
00:26
my
00:26
gosh.
00:27
What
00:27
news
00:27
do
00:27
you
00:28
have?
00:28
Well,
00:29
we
00:29
discussed
00:30
this
00:30
a
00:30
few
00:30
weeks
00:30
ago
00:31
that
00:32
I
00:32
might
00:32
be
00:32
able
00:33
to
00:34
have
00:34
someone
00:34
who
00:34
worked
00:34
with
00:35
Hadden
00:35
Clark
00:35
and
00:35
corrections.
00:36
If
00:36
that
00:37
he
00:37
would
00:37
be
00:37
willing
00:38
to
00:38
be
00:38
interviewed.
00:39
I
00:39
mean
00:39
the
00:39
serial
00:39
killer.
00:40
Oh
00:40
yeah.
00:41
Hadden
00:41
Clark.
00:41
The
00:41
serial
00:42
killer.
00:42
Oh
00:42
my
00:43
God
00:43
.
00:43
Yeah,
00:44
he
00:44
actually,
00:46
in
00:46
the
00:46
nineties,
00:46
he
00:47
had
00:47
murdered,
00:48
he
00:48
had
00:48
murdered
00:48
a
00:48
young
00:49
woman
00:49
and
00:50
he
00:50
had
00:50
taken
00:51
her
00:51
clothes
00:51
and
00:51
he
00:51
had
00:51
dressed
00:52
up
00:52
at
00:52
our
00:52
clothes.
00:53
And
00:53
then
00:53
also,
00:54
I
00:54
don't
00:54
know
00:54
if
00:54
he
00:55
was
00:55
convicted
00:55
or
00:56
he
00:56
was
00:56
a
00:56
suspect
00:57
in
00:57
the
00:57
disappearance
00:57
of
00:57
a
00:57
little
00:58
girl.
00:59
So
00:59
I
00:59
spoke
00:59
to
00:59
this
01:00
person
01:00
and
01:01
I
01:01
told
01:01
him
01:01
,
01:01
I
01:01
said,
01:02
no
01:02
pressure,
01:03
but
01:03
think
01:03
about
01:03
it.
01:04
And
01:04
I
01:04
didn't
01:04
hear
01:04
back
01:05
from
01:05
him
01:05
right
01:06
away.
01:07
And
01:07
then
01:07
I
01:07
talked
01:07
to
01:08
him
01:08
on
01:08
Sunday
01:09
and
01:09
he
01:10
said,
01:10
he
01:10
seemed
01:10
very
01:11
interested
01:11
in
01:11
doing,
01:11
it
01:12
said
01:12
that
01:12
he,
01:13
that
01:13
he
01:13
would
01:13
be
01:14
a
01:14
guest.
01:14
And,
01:15
but
01:15
he
01:15
can't
01:16
disclose
01:16
to
01:17
eight
01:17
years
01:17
because
01:17
of
01:17
his
01:17
job.
01:18
Okay.
01:19
But
01:19
we
01:19
don't
01:20
have
01:20
to
01:20
disguise
01:20
his
01:21
voice
01:21
or
01:21
anything
01:21
like
01:21
that.
01:22
No,
01:23
I
01:23
don't
01:23
think
01:23
so.
01:23
I
01:23
wouldn't
01:24
even
01:24
know
01:24
.
01:24
We
01:24
know
01:25
how
01:25
to
01:25
do
01:25
that.
01:26
So
01:27
yeah.
01:27
So
01:28
amazing.
01:28
So
01:29
that
01:29
will
01:29
probably,
01:30
well,
01:30
it
01:30
will
01:31
be
01:31
our
01:31
first
01:31
guest
01:32
and
01:32
we've
01:32
talked
01:32
about,
01:32
you
01:33
know,
01:33
in
01:33
the
01:33
new
01:33
year
01:33
we
01:33
said
01:34
once
01:34
we
01:34
had
01:34
a
01:34
few
01:34
episodes
01:35
under
01:35
our
01:35
belts
01:35
that
01:36
we
01:36
wanted
01:36
to
01:36
branch
01:36
out
01:36
and
01:37
you
01:37
know,
01:37
once
01:37
in
01:38
a
01:38
while
01:38
,
01:38
um,
01:38
have,
01:39
have
01:39
people
01:39
on
01:39
the
01:39
show.
01:39
So
01:40
this
01:40
is
01:40
amazing.
01:41
I'm
01:41
so
01:41
excited.
01:42
So
01:42
yeah.
01:43
To
01:44
tease
01:44
our
01:44
,
01:44
not
01:44
our
01:44
next
01:45
episode
01:46
,
01:46
um,
01:46
I
01:46
guess
01:47
it'll
01:47
be
01:47
out
01:47
hopefully
01:47
in
01:48
January.
01:49
That
01:49
is
01:49
great.
01:49
So
01:49
we're
01:49
going
01:49
to
01:50
be
01:50
talking
01:50
about
01:50
what's
01:51
his
01:51
last
01:51
name
01:51
again?
01:52
Has
01:52
this
01:52
Hadden
01:52
Clark
01:53
Hadden
01:53
Clark.
01:54
And
01:54
we're
01:54
talking
01:54
,
01:54
we're
01:54
going
01:54
to
01:54
be
01:54
talking
01:55
with
01:55
somebody
01:55
who
01:55
worked
01:56
with
01:56
him
01:56
in
01:56
corrections.
01:57
Yes.
01:58
Wow.
01:59
Wow.
02:00
Good
02:00
job
02:00
of
02:00
explaining
02:01
that.
02:02
No
02:02
,
02:02
no,
02:02
no.
02:02
I
02:02
just,
02:02
I
02:02
was
02:02
just
02:03
making
02:03
sure
02:03
I
02:04
understood,
02:04
like
02:04
we're
02:04
not
02:04
talking
02:05
to
02:05
Hadden
02:05
Clark
02:08
because
02:09
I'm
02:09
afraid
02:10
that
02:10
would
02:10
be
02:11
nightmare
02:11
fuel.
02:12
Yeah.
02:12
That
02:13
would
02:13
be,
02:13
it
02:14
would
02:14
be
02:14
like,
02:14
not
02:14
be
02:14
talking
02:15
to
02:15
him.
02:15
It
02:16
would
02:16
be
02:16
kind
02:16
of
02:16
like
02:17
we
02:17
were
02:17
doing
02:18
what
02:18
Jason
02:18
Moss
02:18
did
02:19
if
02:19
people
02:19
remember
02:19
that
02:20
episode.
02:20
Yeah.
02:21
And
02:21
we
02:21
wouldn't
02:21
want
02:22
to
02:22
do
02:22
that.
02:22
You
02:22
just
02:23
need
02:23
to
02:23
watch
02:23
a
02:23
video
02:23
of
02:24
him.
02:24
He's
02:25
he's
02:25
super
02:26
creepy.
02:26
Oh,
02:27
how
02:27
old
02:27
of
02:27
a
02:27
guy
02:28
is
02:28
he?
02:28
I
02:28
would
02:29
say
02:29
that
02:29
he's
02:29
probably
02:30
in
02:30
his
02:30
sixties
02:30
now
02:31
would
02:31
be
02:31
my
02:31
guess.
02:33
So
02:33
he
02:33
was
02:33
what
02:33
?
02:33
A
02:34
party
02:34
.
02:34
Yeah.
02:35
And
02:35
he,
02:35
he
02:35
does
02:36
suffer
02:36
from
02:36
paranoid
02:37
schizophrenia.
02:38
Okay.
02:39
So
02:40
you
02:40
spent
02:40
really
02:40
ill,
02:40
but
02:41
he's
02:41
creepy
02:41
as.
02:42
Yeah.
02:43
Nothing
02:43
against
02:44
mental
02:44
illness.
02:45
Um,
02:46
well
02:46
we're,
02:46
we're
02:46
equal
02:47
opportunity.
02:48
Exactly.
02:50
Um,
02:50
yeah,
02:51
he,
02:51
he
02:51
sounds,
02:52
well,
02:52
it
02:52
sounds
02:52
like
02:53
it'll
02:53
be
02:53
riveting.
02:53
Like
02:53
I
02:54
I'm
02:54
already
02:55
thinking
02:55
what
02:55
kinds
02:55
of
02:55
questions,
02:56
you
02:56
know,
02:56
I'm
02:56
going
02:56
to
02:56
have
02:56
to
02:57
do
02:57
a
02:57
little
02:57
research
02:57
on
02:57
this
02:58
guy
02:58
so
02:58
that
02:59
all
02:59
knew
02:59
what
02:59
the
02:59
heck
02:59
I'm
03:00  Speaker 3
Talking
03:00
about.
03:01
So
03:01
that's
03:01
my
03:01
good
03:01
news.
03:02
That's
03:02
awesome.
03:03
Well,
03:03
I
03:03
guess
03:03
the
03:03
only
03:03
good
03:04
news
03:04
I
03:04
have
03:04
is
03:04
that
03:04
I
03:04
have
03:05
a
03:05
drink
03:05
in
03:05
my
03:05
hand,
03:07
but
03:07
I'm
03:08
willing
03:08
to,
03:08
I'm
03:08
willing
03:08
to
03:08
share
03:09
that
03:09
good
03:09
news.
03:10
So
03:10
you
03:10
remember,
03:11
I
03:11
don't
03:11
know.
03:11
It's
03:11
been
03:12
,
03:12
uh
03:12
,
03:12
an
03:12
episode
03:13
or
03:13
two
03:13
ago.
03:14
I
03:14
was
03:14
really
03:14
looking
03:14
forward
03:15
to
03:15
making
03:15
this
03:16
Apple
03:17
drink
03:17
and
03:18
it
03:18
turned
03:18
out
03:18
like
03:19
it
03:19
was
03:19
literally
03:19
undrinkable.
03:20
It
03:20
was
03:20
kind
03:20
of
03:21
like
03:21
drinking
03:21
gasoline.
03:22
So
03:22
I
03:23
,
03:23
I
03:23
valiantly
03:23
tried
03:24
for
03:24
a
03:24
couple
03:24
of
03:24
sips
03:24
and
03:25
then
03:25
I'm
03:25
like,
03:25
I
03:25
can't,
03:25
I
03:26
can't
03:26
do
03:26
this.
03:27
And
03:27
I
03:27
had
03:27
spent,
03:28
I
03:28
mean,
03:28
I
03:28
probably
03:28
spent
03:28
$75
03:29
at
03:29
the
03:29
liquor
03:29
store
03:30
buying
03:30
the
03:30
ingredients.
03:31
So
03:31
I
03:31
was
03:31
really
03:31
off.
03:32
So
03:32
I
03:32
decided
03:33
to
03:33
try
03:33
to
03:34
,
03:34
um
03:34
,
03:34
to
03:35
redeem
03:36
myself
03:36
by
03:36
making
03:37
a
03:37
champagne
03:37
cocktail.
03:38
So
03:38
I,
03:39
I
03:39
have
03:39
some
03:40
champagne
03:40
on
03:40
my
03:41
glass
03:41
and
03:41
then
03:41
I
03:41
poured
03:42
a
03:42
little
03:42
bit
03:42
that
03:42
Apple
03:43
Brandy
03:43
in
03:44
and
03:44
added
03:44
a
03:44
sugar
03:45
cube
03:45
and
03:45
a
03:45
couple
03:46
of
03:46
dashes
03:47
of
03:47
Angostura
03:47
bitters.
03:48
What
03:48
are
03:48
you
03:48
drinking?
03:49
I
03:49
am
03:49
having,
03:50
it's
03:50
very
03:50
simple.
03:51
I
03:51
am
03:51
having
03:52
a
03:52
Moscow
03:52
mule
03:53
and
03:53
the
03:54
reason
03:54
why
03:54
I
03:54
decided
03:55
to
03:55
,
03:55
to
03:55
make
03:56
a
03:56
mule
03:56
because
03:56
my
03:57
brother,
03:57
I
03:58
saw
03:58
him
03:58
tonight
03:58
and
03:59
he
03:59
had
03:59
brought
04:00
me
04:00
some
04:00
ginger
04:00
beer.
04:01
Oh,
04:01
okay.
04:02
And
04:02
so
04:02
with
04:02
a
04:02
mule,
04:03
I
04:03
have
04:04
,
04:04
um,
04:04
vodka
04:05
and
04:05
lime
04:05
juice
04:06
and
04:06
with
04:06
the
04:07
ginger
04:07
beer,
04:08
that
04:08
sounds
04:08
so
04:08
good.
04:09
And
04:10
for
04:10
the
04:10
vodka,
04:10
I
04:11
use
04:11
this
04:11
pepper
04:12
infused
04:12
vodka.
04:13
Think
04:14
they're
04:14
really
04:14
refreshing
04:15
in
04:15
between
04:16
the
04:16
lime
04:16
juice
04:17
and
04:17
like
04:17
the,
04:17
you
04:18
know,
04:18
the
04:18
spice.
04:18
And
04:19
actually
04:19
I
04:19
think
04:19
that,
04:20
that
04:20
,
04:20
um,
04:20
black
04:20
pepper
04:21
vodka
04:21
sounds
04:21
really
04:22
intriguing.
04:22
That
04:22
sounds
04:23
really
04:23
good.
04:23
I'll
04:23
have
04:23
to
04:24
give
04:24
that
04:24
a
04:24
try.
04:25
All
04:25
right.
04:26
So
04:26
tonight
04:27
,
04:27
um,
04:27
tonight
04:28
I'm
04:28
gonna
04:28
be
04:28
talking
04:29
about
04:30
taro
04:30
cards
04:31
and
04:31
more
04:32
than
04:32
Terra
04:32
cards
04:32
are
04:32
going
04:32
to
04:32
be
04:33
talking
04:33
about
04:33
a
04:33
really
04:34
interesting
04:34
woman.
04:35
I
04:35
think
04:35
you're
04:35
going
04:35
to
04:35
be
04:35
fascinated
04:36
by
04:36
her.
04:36
Her
04:36
name
04:36
is
04:37
Pamela
04:37
Coleman
04:37
Smith.
04:39
And
04:39
,
04:39
um,
04:39
she
04:41
designed
04:41
along
04:41
with
04:42
Arthur,
04:42
Edward,
04:43
wait
04:43
,
04:43
she
04:43
designed
04:44
Porter
04:44
probably
04:44
arguably
04:45
the
04:45
best
04:46
known
04:46
taro
04:46
cards
04:47
on
04:47
the
04:47
market.
04:48
So
04:48
I'm
04:49
going
04:49
to
04:49
tell
04:49
her,
04:49
you
04:49
actually
04:50
gave
04:50
me
04:51
those
04:51
terror
04:51
cards.
04:52
And
04:52
actually,
04:53
do
04:53
you
04:53
have
04:53
those
04:53
at
04:53
work
04:54
or
04:54
do
04:54
you
04:54
have
04:54
them
04:54
at
04:54
home?
04:55
I
04:55
have
04:55
them
04:55
at
04:55
home.
04:56
Oh
04:56
my
04:56
gosh.
04:56
I'm
04:57
so
04:57
excited
04:57
about
04:57
that
04:58
because
04:58
I
04:58
have
04:58
the
04:58
same
04:59
ones,
04:59
except
04:59
I
04:59
think
04:59
I
05:00
gave
05:00
you
05:00
the
05:00
smaller
05:00
ones
05:01
and
05:01
then
05:01
I
05:01
have,
05:02
they're
05:02
just
05:02
slightly
05:03
bigger,
05:03
but
05:03
it's
05:03
the
05:03
same
05:04
deck
05:04
.
05:04
And
05:05
I
05:05
got
05:05
them
05:05
actually
05:06
last
05:07
got
05:07
around
05:07
this
05:07
time
05:07
last
05:08
year,
05:08
I
05:08
really
05:09
wanting
05:09
,
05:09
been
05:09
wanting
05:09
to
05:09
learn
05:09
how
05:10
to
05:10
read
05:11
taro
05:11
,
05:11
but
05:11
I
05:11
just
05:11
haven't,
05:12
which
05:12
is
05:12
a
05:12
shame.
05:13
I
05:13
mean,
05:13
we're
05:13
in
05:13
a
05:13
pandemic.
05:14
You
05:14
would
05:14
think
05:14
that
05:14
I
05:14
would
05:15
have
05:15
found
05:15
time
05:15
to
05:16
learn
05:16
how
05:16
to
05:16
read
05:16
Tara
05:16
,
05:17
what
05:17
I
05:17
haven't.
05:17
So
05:17
I
05:17
was
05:18
going
05:18
to
05:18
ask
05:18
you,
05:18
maybe
05:19
we
05:19
can
05:19
kind
05:19
of
05:19
study
05:20
together.
05:20
Like,
05:21
would
05:21
you
05:21
be
05:21
into
05:21
that?
05:22
I
05:22
would,
05:22
I'm
05:23
kind
05:23
of
05:23
afraid
05:23
of
05:23
Satan,
05:24
but
05:24
you
05:25
are
05:25
.
05:25
Other
05:25
than
05:25
that,
05:26
I
05:26
don't
05:26
think
05:26
I'll
05:27
give
05:27
it
05:27
my
05:27
best.
05:27
I
05:28
don't
05:28
think
05:28
tarot
05:28
cards
05:29
are
05:29
at
05:29
all
05:30
CTS
05:30
,
05:30
but
05:30
I'm
05:30
going
05:31
to
05:31
talk
05:31
more
05:31
about
05:31
like
05:31
what
05:32
taro
05:32
does
05:32
and
05:33
how
05:33
people
05:33
think
05:33
of
05:33
it.
05:34
But
05:34
I
05:34
it's
05:34
not
05:35
like
05:35
the
05:35
Weegee
05:35
board
05:35
or
05:35
anything,
05:36
so
05:36
I
05:36
don't
05:36
think
05:36
you
05:37
have
05:37
anything
05:37
to
05:37
worry
05:37
about.
05:38
Okay.
05:38
Then
05:39
I'm
05:39
in
05:39
.
05:40
Okay,
05:40
excellent.
05:41  Speaker 1
So
05:41
what
05:41
I'm
05:41
going
05:42
to
05:42
do,
05:42
I'm
05:42
going
05:42
to
05:42
start
05:42
out
05:42
just
05:43
kind
05:43
of
05:43
talking
05:43  Speaker 3
About
05:44
the
05:44
origins
05:44
of
05:45
taro
05:45
a
05:45
little
05:45
bit.
05:45
Maybe
05:45
I'll
05:45
be
05:46
able
05:46
to
05:46
ease
05:46
your
05:46
mind.
05:47
So
05:47
you
05:47
don't
05:47
think
05:48
that
05:48
the
05:48
devil's
05:48
going
05:48
to
05:48
take
05:49
us
05:49
if,
05:49
if
05:49
we
05:50
read
05:50
tarot
05:50
cards
05:51
and
05:51
then
05:51
I'm
05:51
going
05:51
to
05:51
talk
05:51
about
05:52
Pamela
05:53
Coleman
05:53
Smith,
05:53
but
05:53
I'll
05:53
start
05:53
out
05:54
with
05:54
the
05:54
taro
05:54
taro
05:54
cards,
05:55
actually
05:55
date
05:56
from
05:56
mid
05:57
century
05:57
Europe
05:58
today.
05:58
When
05:58
we
05:59
think
05:59
of
05:59
Terra
05:59
cards,
05:59
we
05:59
think
06:00
of
06:00
telling
06:01
your
06:01
fortune
06:01
or
06:02
divining
06:03
what's
06:03
in
06:03
the
06:03
future.
06:03
But
06:04
back
06:04
in
06:05
the
06:05
mid
06:05
15th
06:05
century,
06:06
people
06:06
just
06:06
use
06:07
them
06:07
as
06:07
playing
06:08
cards.
06:08
I
06:08
think
06:08
they
06:09
call
06:09
them
06:09
Terrell
06:09
or
06:09
something.
06:11
Um,
06:11
they
06:11
seem
06:11
to
06:11
be
06:11
really
06:11
popular
06:12
in
06:12
Italy,
06:12
but
06:13
other
06:13
places
06:13
in
06:13
Europe
06:14
as
06:14
well.
06:15
Um,
06:15
and
06:15
it
06:15
wasn't
06:15
until
06:15
the
06:15
late
06:16
18th
06:16
century
06:17
that
06:17
some
06:18
of
06:18
the
06:18
decks
06:18
began
06:18
to
06:19
be
06:19
used
06:19
for
06:20
divination
06:20
or
06:21
fortunes
06:21
.
06:22
And
06:22
really
06:22
the
06:22
whole,
06:23
I
06:23
guess,
06:24
reason
06:24
for
06:24
being
06:25
behind
06:25
Terra
06:25
cards
06:26
is
06:26
they're
06:26
just
06:26
a
06:27
tool
06:27
to
06:27
kind
06:28
of
06:28
help
06:28
the
06:28
person
06:28
who's
06:29
reading
06:29
them,
06:29
get
06:30
a
06:30
sense
06:30
of
06:30
meaning
06:31
and
06:31
figure
06:31
out
06:31
like
06:32
a
06:32
sense
06:32
of
06:32
meaning
06:32
or
06:32
direction
06:33
in
06:33
their
06:33
life.
06:34
The
06:34
person
06:34
that's
06:34
reading
06:35
them,
06:35
or
06:35
I
06:35
guess
06:36
if
06:36
you're
06:36
reading
06:36
your
06:36
own,
06:37
so
06:37
you
06:37
would
06:37
be
06:38
looking
06:38
for
06:38
your
06:38
own,
06:39
but
06:39
let's
06:39
say
06:40
I'm
06:40
reading
06:40
them
06:40
for
06:40
you.
06:40
We're
06:40
trying
06:41
to
06:41
like
06:42
interrupt
06:42
.
06:42
Like
06:42
I'm
06:42
interpreting
06:43
the
06:43
cards
06:43
in
06:44
the
06:44
sense
06:44
of
06:44
like
06:44
their
06:44
meaning
06:45
in
06:45
your
06:45
life.
06:46
But
06:47
I
06:47
think
06:47
you
06:47
can
06:47
do
06:47
either,
06:47
so
06:48
you
06:48
can
06:48
read
06:48
your
06:48
own
06:49
or
06:49
you
06:49
can
06:49
,
06:49
can
06:50
have
06:50
them
06:50
read
06:50
for
06:50
you.
06:51
I'm
06:51
not,
06:51
I
06:51
just
06:51
want
06:51
to
06:51
kind
06:52
of
06:52
put
06:52
out
06:52
a
06:52
caveat
06:53
that
06:53
I'm
06:53
not
06:53
an
06:53
expert
06:54
on
06:54
taro
06:54
at
06:54
all.
06:55
I
06:55
don't
06:55
know
06:55
a
06:55
lot.
06:56
I
06:56
really
06:56
want
06:56
to
06:57
know
06:57
more.
06:57
And
06:57
I
06:57
feel
06:58
like
06:58
when
06:58
I
06:58
got
06:58
these
06:59
cards
06:59
and
06:59
I
06:59
got
07:00
a
07:00
book
07:00
that
07:00
went
07:00
with
07:00
them,
07:01
actually
07:01
that
07:01
went
07:02
with
07:02
Rider-Waite
07:02
deck,
07:03
which
07:03
I'm
07:03
going
07:03
to
07:03
be
07:03
talking
07:04
about
07:04
tonight.
07:04
It's
07:05
so
07:05
complicated.
07:06
Like
07:06
every
07:06
card
07:07
has
07:07
so
07:07
much
07:08
symbolism
07:08
you
07:08
could
07:08
spend,
07:09
you
07:09
could
07:09
literally
07:09
spend
07:10
your
07:10
whole
07:10
life
07:10
studying
07:11
tarot
07:11
cards
07:11
and
07:11
still
07:12
not
07:12
know
07:12
everything
07:13
you've
07:13
done
07:13
it.
07:14
Right.
07:14
You've
07:14
had
07:14
yours
07:14
read
07:14
before.
07:15
Right?
07:16
Brian
07:16
and
07:16
I
07:16
were
07:16
first
07:17
dating
07:17
in
07:17
Philadelphia.
07:18
There
07:19
was
07:19
this
07:19
line
07:19
out
07:19
on
07:19
the
07:20
street
07:20
that
07:20
said
07:21
$5
07:21
reading
07:21
by
07:22
Ms
07:22
.
07:22
Tilly
07:22
.
07:23
We
07:23
went
07:24
in
07:24
and
07:24
I
07:24
think
07:24
I
07:25
forgot
07:25
what
07:25
she
07:25
did.
07:26
I
07:26
can't
07:26
remember
07:26
if
07:26
she
07:27
did
07:27
cards
07:27
or
07:27
if
07:27
she'd
07:28
read
07:28
our
07:28
poem,
07:28
we'll
07:28
have
07:29
to
07:29
see
07:29
if
07:29
he
07:29
remembers.
07:30
But
07:30
so
07:30
we
07:30
went
07:30
in
07:30
separately
07:31
and
07:31
I
07:31
think
07:32
she
07:32
read
07:32
each
07:32
one
07:33
for
07:33
five
07:33
bucks.
07:33
This
07:33
wasn't
07:34
the
07:34
night
07:34
.
07:35
It
07:35
was
07:35
like
07:35
a
07:35
bargain
07:35
basement
07:36
price.
07:37
And
07:37
she
07:37
was
07:37
like,
07:37
she
07:37
told
07:38
me,
07:38
she's
07:38
like,
07:38
sometimes
07:39
you'll
07:39
feel
07:39
your
07:40
man
07:40
love
07:41
you,
07:42
love
07:42
you.
07:43
So
07:44
then
07:44
he,
07:44
Brian
07:44
goes
07:45
in
07:45
and
07:46
no
07:46
,
07:46
she
07:46
gets
07:46
his
07:47
reading.
07:47
And
07:47
so
07:47
we
07:47
go
07:47
out
07:48
and
07:48
he's
07:48
like,
07:48
well,
07:49
what'd
07:49
she
07:49
tell
07:49
you?
07:49
And
07:49
I
07:50
tell
07:50
him
07:50
and
07:50
he's
07:50
like,
07:50
Oh
07:51
my
07:51
God.
07:51
She
07:51
said
07:51
the
07:51
same
07:52
thing
07:52
to
07:52
me.
07:53
So
07:53
she
07:53
literally
07:54
exactly
07:55
the
07:55
same
07:55
thing.
07:56
I'm
07:56
totally
07:57
fascinated
07:57
by
07:58
it.
07:58
And
07:58
I
07:58
would
07:58
really
07:58
like
07:59
to
07:59
go
07:59
to
07:59
a
07:59
good
07:59
terror
07:59
reader,
08:00
but
08:00
I
08:00
feel
08:00
like
08:00
it's
08:00
kind
08:00
of
08:01
hard
08:01
in
08:01
that.
08:01
Like
08:02
how
08:02
do
08:02
you
08:02
find
08:02
somebody
08:03
who's
08:03
kind
08:03
of
08:03
the
08:03
real
08:03
deal?
08:04
Because
08:04
like
08:04
I
08:04
said,
08:05
there's
08:05
so
08:05
much
08:05
to
08:05
know
08:06
and
08:06
it's
08:07
really,
08:07
I
08:07
think
08:07
at
08:07
its
08:08
heart,
08:08
it's
08:08
really
08:09
about
08:09
being
08:09
able
08:09
to
08:09
tell
08:10
a
08:10
story
08:10
and
08:10
being
08:11
able
08:11
to
08:11
be
08:11
imaginative
08:12
and
08:12
inventive.
08:13
And
08:13
there
08:13
may
08:13
be
08:13
some
08:13
serendipity
08:14
in
08:14
the
08:14
cards,
08:15
you
08:15
know,
08:15
sometimes
08:15
things
08:16
come
08:16
together
08:16
and
08:17
they
08:17
make
08:17
sense.
08:18
So
08:18
I'll
08:18
talk
08:18
more
08:18
about
08:19
that
08:19
in
08:19
a
08:19
little
08:19
bit
08:19
too.
08:20
But
08:20
the
08:20
deck
08:20
that
08:20
I'm
08:20
going
08:21
to
08:21
be
08:21
talking
08:21
about
08:21
tonight
08:22
is
08:22
known
08:22
as
08:22
the
08:22
writer
08:22
await
08:23
DEC
08:24
or
08:24
the
08:24
writer
08:24
await
08:25
Smith
08:25
deck,
08:26
which
08:26
is
08:26
really,
08:27
it
08:27
would
08:27
be
08:27
my
08:27
preference
08:28
just
08:28
to
08:28
call
08:28
it
08:28
the
08:28
RWS
08:29
deck,
08:29
because
08:30
that
08:30
includes
08:30
Smith's
08:31
last
08:31
name,
08:32
the
08:32
woman
08:32
who
08:33
did
08:33
the
08:33
artwork
08:34
for
08:34
the
08:34
cards.
08:34
And
08:34
sometimes
08:35
her
08:35
name
08:35
gets
08:35
left
08:35
out
08:36
of
08:36
it.
08:36
Of
08:36
course,
08:36
because
08:37
women
08:37
always
08:37
get
08:37
left
08:38
out.
08:39
Writer
08:39
is
08:39
actually
08:40
the
08:40
publisher
08:41
of
08:41
the
08:41
cards.
08:42
Wait
08:42
,
08:42
was
08:42
the
08:42
guy
08:42
who
08:43
did
08:43
all
08:43
of
08:43
the
08:43
meaning
08:44
kind
08:44
of
08:44
divided
08:45
the
08:45
cards,
08:46
men
08:46
.
08:46
And
08:46
then
08:46
Smith
08:46
is
08:46
her
08:46
last
08:47
name
08:47
in
08:47
the
08:48
writer,
08:48
weight
08:48
Smith
08:49
deck.
08:49
There
08:49
are
08:49
cups
08:50
which
08:50
represent
08:50
water
08:51
Pentacles,
08:52
which
08:53
represent
08:53
earth
08:53
ones,
08:54
which
08:54
represent
08:55
fire
08:56
and
08:56
swords,
08:56
which
08:57
stand
08:57
for
08:57
air.
08:58
So
08:58
they
08:58
correspond
08:59
to
08:59
the
08:59
four
08:59
elements
09:00
and
09:00
they
09:00
mean
09:00
more
09:01
than
09:01
just
09:01
that
09:02
they
09:02
have
09:02
that
09:02
elemental
09:03
thing
09:03
going
09:03
on
09:04
too.
09:04
And
09:04
in
09:04
every
09:05
taro
09:05
deck,
09:06
there
09:06
are
09:06
78
09:06
cards
09:07
and
09:08
each
09:08
suit,
09:08
each
09:09
of
09:09
those
09:09
has
09:09
14
09:10
cards
09:10
and
09:10
10
09:11
of
09:11
them
09:11
are
09:12
numbered
09:12
cards,
09:13
you
09:13
know,
09:13
like
09:13
in
09:13
regular
09:14
cards
09:14
.
09:14
So
09:14
it
09:14
goes
09:14
from
09:15
ACE
09:15
all
09:15
the
09:15
way
09:15
up
09:15
to
09:15
10.
09:16
So
09:16
it
09:16
goes
09:16
from
09:16
eight
09:16
to
09:16
10
09:17
and
09:17
they
09:17
call
09:17
these
09:17
the
09:17
PIP
09:18
cards,
09:18
PIP.
09:19
And
09:19
then
09:20
there
09:20
are
09:20
also
09:20
four
09:20
face
09:21
cards
09:22
and
09:22
they
09:22
also
09:22
call
09:22
it
09:22
the
09:22
minor
09:23
Arcana.
09:24
And
09:24
then
09:24
there's
09:24
another
09:25
set
09:25
of
09:25
cards
09:25
in
09:26
the
09:26
deck.
09:26
And
09:26
it's
09:27
21
09:27
cards,
09:28
which
09:28
includes
09:29
a
09:29
Trump
09:30
suit
09:30
and
09:30
a
09:30
single
09:31
card
09:31
known
09:32
as
09:32
the
09:32
full
09:32
and
09:33
then
09:33
this
09:33
22
09:33
cards
09:34
that
09:34
is
09:34
called
09:34
the
09:34
major
09:35
Arcana.
09:36
So
09:36
I
09:36
guess
09:36
there
09:36
are
09:36
22
09:37
cards
09:37
in
09:37
that
09:37
the
09:37
other
09:38
cards,
09:38
the
09:38
PIP
09:38
cards,
09:39
there
09:39
are
09:39
56
09:39
in
09:39
that.
09:40
So
09:40
the
09:41
Trump
09:41
suit,
09:41
like
09:41
they're
09:42
kind
09:42
of
09:42
the
09:42
main
09:42
figures
09:43
that
09:43
kind
09:43
of
09:43
the
09:44
main,
09:44
I
09:44
guess,
09:45
themes
09:45
and
09:45
stuff
09:46
of
09:46
the
09:46
Carter
09:46
and
09:46
the
09:46
major
09:47
Arcana.
09:47
So
09:48
I
09:48
was
09:48
mentioning
09:48
before
09:49
that,
09:49
I
09:49
think
09:49
Tara
09:50
was
09:50
really
09:50
about
09:50
interpretation.
09:51
And
09:51
I
09:51
think
09:51
that
09:52
every
09:53
reader,
09:53
probably
09:54
even
09:54
though
09:54
like
09:55
there's
09:55
basic
09:55
things
09:56
to
09:56
know
09:56
about
09:56
the
09:56
cards,
09:56
like
09:57
you
09:57
have
09:57
to
09:57
kind
09:57
of
09:57
learn
09:57
what
09:58
some
09:58
of
09:58
the
09:58
symbols
09:58
represent
09:59
and
09:59
all
09:59
about
10:00
how
10:00
you
10:00
interpret
10:00
them.
10:00
So
10:01
if
10:01
I
10:01
do
10:01
a
10:01
spread
10:01
of
10:02
cards,
10:02
I'm
10:02
probably
10:03
going
10:03
to
10:03
see
10:03
them
10:03
differently
10:04
than
10:04
you
10:04
are,
10:05
although
10:06
you
10:06
and
10:06
I,
10:06
we
10:07
have
10:07
a
10:07
lot
10:07
in
10:07
common,
10:07
so
10:07
who
10:08
knows,
10:08
maybe
10:08
Arthur
10:08
,
10:08
my
10:09
interpretations
10:09
would
10:09
be
10:09
similar,
10:10
but
10:10
you
10:10
know,
10:10
I
10:10
think
10:11
every
10:11
reader
10:11
brings
10:12
something
10:12
different
10:12
to
10:12
it.
10:13
And
10:13
there's
10:13
this
10:13
Italian
10:13
writer
10:14
it'll
10:14
lo
10:15
Calveno
10:15
who
10:15
said,
10:16
this
10:16
is
10:16
his
10:16
quote,
10:16
the
10:17
taro
10:17
is
10:17
a
10:17
machine
10:18
for
10:18
constructing
10:18
stories.
10:19
And
10:19
I
10:19
thought
10:19
that
10:19
was
10:19
a
10:19
really
10:20
good
10:20
way
10:21
of
10:21
kind
10:21
of
10:21
thinking
10:21
about
10:22
what
10:22
tarot
10:22
does.
10:23  Speaker 1
Yeah.
10:23
I
10:23
basically
10:23
had
10:24
zero
10:25
knowledge
10:25
of
10:26
terror
10:26
,
10:26
but
10:26
you
10:26
know
10:26
,
10:26
as
10:26
we
10:27
started
10:27
to
10:27
learn
10:27
a
10:27
little
10:27
bit
10:28
more,
10:28
when
10:28
you
10:28
got
10:29
the
10:29
cards
10:29
and
10:29
we
10:29
talked
10:30
about
10:30
them,
10:31
this
10:31
has
10:31
been,
10:31
what,
10:31
when
10:31
did
10:32
you
10:32
get
10:32
them?
10:32
Like
10:32
a
10:32
year
10:33
or
10:33
two
10:33  Speaker 3
Christmas?
10:34
Yeah.
10:34
It
10:34
was
10:34
like
10:34
last
10:35
Christmas.
10:35
So
10:35
almost
10:36
a
10:36
year
10:36
ago.
10:36  Speaker 1
And
10:37
um,
10:37
it,
10:38
it
10:38
made
10:38
more
10:38
sense
10:38
to
10:39
me
10:39
as
10:39
we
10:39
went
10:39
along
10:40
that
10:40
yeah,
10:40
it's,
10:41
it's
10:41
up
10:41
to
10:42
interpretation,
10:43
you
10:43
know,
10:43
there's
10:43
no
10:43
hard
10:44
and
10:44
fast
10:44
rule
10:44
to
10:45
it.
10:45  Speaker 3
Yeah.
10:45
Which
10:45
is
10:46
what
10:46
I
10:46
love
10:46
the
10:47
act
10:47
of
10:47
interpretation
10:48
that
10:48
you
10:48
read
10:48
a
10:48
work
10:49
of
10:49
literature
10:49
and
10:50
yeah,
10:50
you
10:50
have
10:51
to,
10:51
you
10:51
have
10:51
to
10:51
be
10:51
true
10:52
to
10:52
what
10:52
the,
10:52
what
10:52
is
10:52
in
10:53
the
10:53
text.
10:53
But
10:53
within
10:54
that,
10:54
you
10:54
know,
10:55
you
10:55
can
10:55
have
10:56
a
10:56
million
10:56
different
10:57
interpretations.
10:58
And
10:58
the
10:58
way
10:58
I
10:58
read
10:58
that
10:58
and
10:58
respond
10:59
to
10:59
something
10:59
is
11:00
probably
11:00
going
11:00
to
11:00
be
11:00
really
11:00
different
11:01
than
11:01
the
11:01
way
11:02
somebody
11:02
else
11:02
will
11:02
read
11:02
and
11:02
respond
11:03
to
11:03
it.
11:03
And
11:04
I'm
11:04
going
11:04
to
11:04
see
11:04
stuff
11:05
that
11:05
you're
11:05
not
11:05
going
11:05
to
11:05
see
11:06
and
11:06
then
11:06
vice
11:06
versa.
11:07
So
11:07
I
11:07
think
11:08
the
11:08
same
11:08
is
11:08
true
11:09
of
11:09
taro
11:09
.
11:09
It's
11:09
just,
11:10
it's
11:10
like
11:10
a
11:10
text,
11:11
even
11:11
though
11:11
it's
11:11
just,
11:12
it's
11:12
just
11:12
a
11:12
card
11:12
and
11:12
there's
11:13
so
11:13
much
11:13
on
11:13
there
11:13
to
11:13
interpret.
11:14
I
11:14
just,
11:15
that
11:15
gets
11:15
me
11:15
so