The Germany Experience

Life in Germany, as seen through the eyes of outsiders. Featuring the stories of foreigners who moved to Germany - either temporarily or permanently - and tips and advice for life in Germany. Get an inside view of the joys, the frustrations, and the quirks of adapting to the culture and learning German. New episodes every Wednesday.

https://www.thegermanyexperience.de/

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episode 69: Learning assertiveness from Germans, and growing to love a city (Jenna from Canada) [transcript]


Jenna is from Canada who is living in Düsseldorf. She is the creator of Life in Duesseldorf, has just started the Life in Germany YouTube channel. We discuss why she moved to Germany, her recent bout of COVID-19, and why she loves German barbecue culture.

Jenna on Instagram: @lifeindus

SEGEPADFO UPDATE:
Nicole of The Expat Cast and I are going head-to-head to raise money for Über den Tellerrand - in specific, we're supporting a project of theirs to build a mobile kitchen. To find out more and to donate, visit our SEGEPADFO page:

https://thegermanyexperience.de/charity2020

Be sure to type "The Germany Experience" in the public comments field when you donate so that we know which show you're donating on behalf of!

At the beginning of the drive, Nicole challenged me to write a jingle for SEGEPADFO. Then I counter-challenged her to sing backing vocals on it. Listen to the episode to hear the result :)

OTHER SHOW NOTES:

  • Google Trends top searches of 2020 for Germany


JOIN THE THE GERMANY EXPERIENCE FACEBOOK GROUP

Visit the official
The Germany Experience website

Contact me:
info@thegermanyexperience.de


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 2020-12-14  41m
 
 
00:00  Jenna
You notice the Germans
00:00
really like take a stand and,
00:03
and speak up on behalf of them
00:03
or their family. And so now I
00:07
really feel like if somebody
00:07
accuses me of something I didn't
00:10
do, or they do something mean to
00:10
me, I could stand up for myself
00:14
and say, you know, excuse me.
00:22  Shaun B
It's the Germany
00:22
experience the podcast about
00:25
life in Germany, as seen through
00:25
the eyes of outsiders and visit
00:28
my website, the Germany
00:28
experience dot d for more
00:31
information to get in touch, and
00:31
more. And I'm your host Sean,
00:35
welcome to the show. My guest
00:35
this week is Jenna from Canada
00:39
who recently started her own
00:39
YouTube channel. So we're going
00:42
to talk a bit about her
00:42
experiences, and why she's in
00:45
Germany. But before we get that,
00:45
I have to talk about the segi
00:48
pedco charity challenge. As you
00:48
know, Nicole of the expert cost
00:52
is my rival, she's just my
00:52
nemesis. She's a podcaster. In
00:55
Germany, I'm a podcaster in
00:55
Germany. In all honesty, that's
00:58
all we need to be rivals. We're
00:58
just that's the way it is. So
01:00
every year of course, we have a
01:00
charity challenge, where we
01:03
compete with each other to see
01:03
who can raise the most money for
01:06
charity. Now, the charity this
01:06
year is Uber intelligent, and
01:10
they promote diversity and
01:10
integration by organizing events
01:13
with Germans and migrants that
01:13
are based around food. They cook
01:17
food from each other's cultures,
01:17
talk to each other and work to
01:20
break down stereotypes that we
01:20
might have of other cultures.
01:23
And we're supporting a project
01:23
of the Freiburg branch to build
01:26
a mobile kitchen. The charity
01:26
drive is segi padfoot, which
01:30
stands for the second ever
01:30
Germany expert podcast is Advent
01:33
donations, faceoff and that was
01:33
coined last year by Nicole when
01:37
we had the Figgy pedco, which
01:37
was the first ever one of those.
01:40
Now, as part of our competition,
01:40
Nicole challenged me to write
01:45
and record a jingle for segi
01:45
pedco which I did, I've done it
01:50
but then I counted challenged
01:50
her to sing backing vocals on
01:54
the jingle and guess what the
01:54
challenge is completed on both
01:58
sides. This is the segi pedco
01:58
jingle written and recorded by
02:03
me and with backing vocals by
02:03
Nicole
02:15
which means giving
02:27
it's the Germany expand expand
02:39
the second expansion podcast
02:39
donation base it's saggy
03:00
so there it is. There's the
03:00
jingle I would love to know what
03:03
you think please get in touch at
03:03
the Germany experience dot d
03:06
Ford slash Contact or email me
03:06
at info at the Germany
03:09
experience dot d It was a jingle
03:09
that I wanted to be a little
03:12
Christmassy and also a little
03:12
jingle and I hope that we we
03:15
accomplished it. And the most
03:15
important thing is that we had
03:19
fun doing it and I think Nicole
03:19
did a great job on the backing
03:22
vocals. So here's the deal with
03:22
segi pedco there is only 10 days
03:27
left because it ends on the 24th
03:27
of December and is today that
03:30
when this episode is going out
03:30
it's the 14th of December so we
03:33
don't have much time and now is
03:33
the part of the charity
03:36
challenge where we kick things
03:36
into high gear and we get as
03:39
many donations as we can in the
03:39
end sport as the Germans like to
03:42
say the the end rare what I
03:42
don't know I don't even know if
03:47
there's I don't even know what
03:47
the English word for that would
03:48
be the the last stretch of the
03:48
race the sport sounds so much
03:53
better. Now you have to donate
03:53
for information on the charity
03:56
and instructions on how to
03:56
donate go to the Germany
03:59
experience dot d forward slash
03:59
charity 2020 that's the Germany
04:03
experience dot d forward slash
04:03
charity 2020. And when you
04:07
donate, right the Germany
04:07
experience in the public
04:09
comments field so we know that
04:09
you're donating on behalf of
04:12
this podcast. Now in her latest
04:12
segi padfoot update over at the
04:17
xpac cost. Nicole does some
04:17
trash talk now if you remember
04:20
from last year, those listeners
04:20
who were around back then you
04:23
might know that Nicole's trash
04:23
talk game is not exactly on
04:26
point. In fact, it's a little
04:26
it's a little out there. And
04:30
that is I don't know you will.
04:30
When you hear it, go and listen
04:35
to that update episode of
04:35
Nicole's in the expert cost
04:38
feeds. I will put the link in
04:38
the show notes you have to
04:41
listen to it. She has some
04:41
interesting things to say and I
04:46
will be on answering that trash
04:46
talk this week on Instagram. So
04:51
follow my Instagram the Germany
04:51
experience on Instagram to hear
04:55
my reply to Nicole's trash talk,
04:55
which includes comments about
05:00
About the shape of my head by
05:00
the way, so apparently, all bets
05:03
are off. And this is the ugly
05:03
part of siggy pedco. Now we're
05:06
into the ugly stretch forget the
05:06
inch board. This is the ugly
05:09
stretch where we get we will get
05:09
nasty apparently. So, yeah, go
05:13
and listen to that update. And
05:13
also this week, I will be
05:17
posting the video of the
05:17
bloopers we made while recording
05:19
the ciggy pet video promo. So
05:19
follow me on Instagram, Facebook
05:22
and YouTube to see that and the
05:22
reason I'm posting it is because
05:25
we said if we got to 200 euros
05:25
total donations between both
05:28
Nicole and me, we post the
05:28
bloopers so they're getting
05:32
posted because you deserved it
05:32
if you haven't donated get
05:35
donating. So you're in Germany
05:35
Of course this week we will be
05:38
entering a another hard lockdown
05:38
and they're closing the stores
05:41
and it's brutal. It's it really
05:41
feels like the final knockout
05:47
blow from 2020. Just when things
05:47
were looking up and things were
05:49
looking positive. And it's just
05:49
not it's just not a great
05:53
feeling, basically, but I just
05:53
want to say there is some
05:58
positivity out there. There's
05:58
there's good things coming in
06:01
2021 I think that we this has
06:01
been such a bad year. This is
06:05
just the last part of it. And
06:05
hopefully, next year we can get
06:10
past this thing and move on to
06:10
better and happier times. So
06:15
yeah, Coronavirus is not going
06:15
away just yet, not just yet. Now
06:21
speaking of Coronavirus, Google
06:21
Trends releases their year in
06:24
search statistics every year,
06:24
and basically just shows you
06:28
what the top searches of the
06:28
year were in different
06:30
categories. And the one for
06:30
Germany is incredible because as
06:34
you would expect the top general
06:34
search that was done in Germany
06:38
during 2020 was for Coronavirus.
06:38
That's number one. So of course
06:42
you would expect that right? And
06:42
of course the other ones are us
06:45
fall which is the US elections
06:45
wirecard there was a big wire
06:48
card scandal earlier this year.
06:48
Beyond tech octi is beyond tech.
06:54
Of course they making one of the
06:54
Vex vaccines for COVID-19 and
06:58
actaea stocks so people are very
06:58
interested in the stocks of this
07:02
company. But my favorite is so
07:02
that of the top five number
07:07
three top German search of 2020
07:07
Veta Morgan or translates to
07:14
weather tomorrow. It just it
07:14
just amazed This is the top five
07:19
number one Coronavirus number
07:19
two us Val number three Veta
07:23
Morgan and before wirecard
07:23
number five be on tick it just
07:27
kind of slipped in there the
07:27
weather tomorrow though Germans
07:30
are very very keen on the
07:30
weather. So go have a look at
07:33
that. I'll post the link in my
07:33
show notes. But another thing
07:36
that made me laugh out loud when
07:36
I read it was the vortrag the
07:39
war the were questions and there
07:39
I'll just read the top five
07:44
right so voice there or con yet
07:44
where's the hurricane now? We
07:48
had some bad weather this year.
07:48
So I guess people were concerned
07:50
about weather when the hurricane
07:50
was vorfeld Morgan de Shula
07:54
house. So where are the schools
07:54
closed tomorrow? So that's
07:58
Coronavirus related. And then
07:58
and number three vollkommen Anan
08:02
moonshots here. Where do I get a
08:02
mouth? mask? Basically? Number
08:08
Four volete hanau. Where is he
08:08
now and that is also related to
08:12
news happenings that happened
08:12
this year. But number five is
08:16
the best of all of these
08:16
wallflower. Number five, warned
08:21
Donald Duck. What Germans.
08:27
They're so concerned about these
08:27
other things like hurricanes and
08:30
schools being closed. And
08:30
where's Hannah? Because of all
08:33
these terrible things that
08:33
happen there. And where does
08:36
Donald Duck live? These are the
08:36
big questions that Germany is
08:39
asking, what is the weather
08:39
tomorrow? And where does Donald
08:43
Duck live? Germany I love you so
08:43
much. All right on to my guest
08:48
this week. And it's my last
08:48
guest for 2020. And she's from
08:51
Canada. Her name is Jenna. And
08:51
she's just started her own
08:54
YouTube channel a few months
08:54
ago. We'd actually planned to
08:57
talk a few weeks earlier, but
08:57
she got COVID-19. And we had to
09:01
delay our interview. We of
09:01
course in our discussion, talk
09:04
about her COVID-19 experience.
09:04
We discuss why she's in Germany,
09:08
and she explains why she loves
09:08
German barbecue culture. Here is
09:12
Jenna from Canada.
09:20
This is actually an interview
09:20
that is about I would say about
09:24
a year and a bit in the making,
09:24
because I first emailed you in
09:28
the middle of 2019 I think it
09:28
was and then you said you would
09:33
like you'd love to do it. But
09:33
you had to go back to Canada,
09:35
which is where you're from?
09:35
Because you just had a baby,
09:38
right?
09:39  Jenna
Yeah. Wow. Time flies.
09:41  Shaun B
Yeah. So you were on
09:41
maternity leave, I think back
09:43
home in Canada. And then after
09:43
that you return and we finally
09:47
getting to have the discussion.
09:47
We started talking about last
09:52
last year, and I looked through
09:52
the emails and do you know how
09:55
many emails we've sent to each
09:55
other since we first make
09:57
contact.
09:58  Jenna
I haven't counted but two
09:58
I want to know.
10:02  Shaun B
Yeah, it's it's around
10:02
30, around 30 emails. But yeah,
10:07
that's just kind of the scene,
10:07
just a peek behind the scenes
10:10
for the listeners of how these
10:10
things can be to organize and
10:14
set up. And I always appreciate
10:14
my guests time as well for going
10:17
through all the the emailing
10:17
processes and discussing the
10:20
details and so on. But yeah, and
10:20
we were supposed to meet a few
10:25
weeks ago, but you kind of had
10:25
circumstances that didn't quite
10:29
allow it.
10:31  Jenna
No, sadly, not. I had
10:31
actually lost my voice in the
10:34
process of catching COVID. So
10:38  Shaun B
yeah, it's all the
10:38
rage. I've read this whole COVID
10:40
thing.
10:41  Jenna
Oh, hi. No, and it was
10:41
just a matter of time. I mean,
10:44
my my husband works in the
10:44
medical field. So for us, it was
10:47
a matter of it was more of a
10:47
question of when as to if we
10:51
were actually going to catch it.
10:53  Shaun B
Wow, that makes that
10:53
that is that is kind of scary.
10:56
So you just kind of assumed What
10:56
does he do in the medical
10:58
profession?
10:58  Jenna
He is a dentist. So I
10:58
mean, every day you say, there's
11:02
so many doctors working, but as
11:02
a dentist, you're working in
11:05
people's mouths, right? And
11:05
you're getting it back, though.
11:12  Shaun B
Like you said, it's
11:12
only a matter of time. But that
11:16
must have been pretty scary when
11:16
you found out that he was
11:19
infected.
11:20  Jenna
Yes, I think at the
11:20
beginning to be honest, I guess
11:23
like after now that we've
11:23
recovered from it, and we've
11:26
kind of taken that gone through
11:26
the entire process, I have to be
11:30
honest, and say that I'm not as
11:30
scared. Now, as I was
11:34
previously, I knew that it
11:34
doesn't impact each and every
11:38
person in the exact same way.
11:38
And I had hoped that we would
11:41
get mild cases and my husband
11:41
had a much milder, milder case
11:45
than I did myself. However, now
11:45
I think I just, I guess, I
11:51
almost understand it a little
11:51
bit more understand how you
11:53
catch it. And I think we all
11:53
have these crazy thoughts
11:56
running around in our minds. And
11:56
sometimes we just make ourselves
11:59
a little bit too crazy. So
11:59
actually, after having had it, I
12:04
feel like I've just brought
12:04
myself back down to reality and
12:06
realize, okay, you know, it's,
12:06
it's here, and we do have to be
12:10
careful and not really let it
12:10
impact my day to day life like I
12:14
did before actually got it.
12:17  Shaun B
Oh, that's interesting
12:17
that you that you would have
12:18
that sort of change of mindset
12:18
after actually contracting it.
12:22
Right.
12:22  Jenna
Mm hmm. And I think you
12:22
also have to compare your mental
12:25
state to right. And I think for
12:25
me, it real, I realized after
12:28
being in quarantine for almost a
12:28
month long, you really have to
12:33
calm yourself down and tell
12:33
yourself what's more important.
12:36
And I mean, it's easy to say
12:36
we're gonna stay indoors all
12:39
day, every day. But here in
12:39
Germany, there are so many
12:42
amazing opportunities to go out
12:42
and explore the nature that I've
12:45
kind of been able to better
12:45
realize what's important for me.
12:49
And yes, I have to be careful
12:49
for my family and my friends.
12:52
But I also need to also figure
12:52
out what's important for me as
12:56
getting fresh air perhaps or
12:56
letting my child run around in a
13:00
Greenfield?
13:01  Shaun B
Yeah, yeah. And it's,
13:01
it's, it's always tricky,
13:04
because of course, the thing
13:04
that's also in on people's minds
13:08
is that of probably for younger
13:08
people like us, we will just
13:11
contract it either have no
13:11
symptoms, or have a mild case,
13:14
like you guys did. And the fear
13:14
is always spreading it to people
13:18
who are vulnerable and whatever
13:18
else, because no one wants to be
13:20
responsible for that. But, but
13:20
like you say, it's easy to let
13:25
the fear and the the, I don't
13:25
know what the it's already a
13:30
weird mindset that we have. And
13:30
then you have that added layer
13:33
of fear every day. It's it's not
13:33
a good state of being to be in.
13:38  Jenna
No, absolutely not. I
13:38
think everybody needs to figure
13:41
it out for themselves, really,
13:41
and figure out what's really
13:44
best for them, and how they can
13:44
make sure that this doesn't
13:48
really take over their lives.
13:48
And whether that's the anxiety
13:51
or the fear speaking, it's, it's
13:51
so important to make sure that
13:55
you're focusing on yourself and
13:55
your health.
13:57  Shaun B
Yeah. Well, you are
13:57
also the first guest that ever
13:59
canceled on me because of
13:59
COVID-19. That is
14:03  Jenna
very valid. Right.
14:08  Shaun B
Yeah. So Wow, I'm so
14:08
glad that you guys got better
14:11
and healed up is your is your
14:11
husband back working again?
14:14  Jenna
He is back working? Yes.
14:14
We both still have, I guess
14:18
leftover symptoms, if you want
14:18
to call it that. But we're on
14:21
the on the verge of being
14:21
entirely completely better.
14:25  Shaun B
And what are those
14:25
symptoms that hang around?
14:28  Jenna
It would definitely be
14:28
the cough and the lack of scent
14:31
and taste. So I still can't
14:31
smell I still can't taste. It's
14:35
been a few days now since I've
14:35
been able to leave the house,
14:39
and then that cough that just
14:39
lingers as well. And it's not a
14:43
contagious cough. It's just
14:43
simply it kind of just lasts and
14:46
it's almost like when you're
14:46
running outside in the winter
14:49
and you get out of breath and
14:49
then you go inside to somewhere
14:53
warm and you just have to kind
14:53
of cough a little bit and this
14:57
is what still lingers for me.
14:59  Shaun B
Wow. So you It that is
14:59
very interesting. That's the
15:02
taste and the smell thing is
15:02
something I've heard from a lot
15:04
of people and it's it's quite
15:04
interesting that that's a side
15:06
effect that's that stays for
15:06
such a long time. Yeah, it's
15:09  Jenna
annoying, but I mean,
15:09
manageable right at least for
15:12
healthy.
15:13  Shaun B
Yeah, exactly. small,
15:13
small problems. But we didn't i
15:16
didn't invite you on the show to
15:16
talk about Coronavirus. I just
15:18
thought it was a an interesting
15:18
opportunity. And you you've also
15:22
because something we haven't
15:22
mentioned yet is you're a
15:23
YouTuber now. And you're you
15:23
made a YouTube video about your
15:27
experiences with COVID-19. So if
15:27
anyone wants to find out more
15:30
about that, first of all,
15:30
subscribe to your channel, which
15:32
is life in Germany. I'll link to
15:32
it in the show notes as well.
15:35
And people can find it really
15:35
easy. And you've just made a
15:37
COVID-19 a video about your
15:37
COVID-19 experience over there,
15:41
but maybe give me some give me
15:41
some idea of your background of
15:46
where you're from and and how
15:46
you ended up in Germany.
15:49  Jenna
Well, oh, where to start
15:49
back in 2012. I was working full
15:56
time in a job in marketing. Back
15:56
in Toronto, Ontario. I was
16:00
actually born in a small town
16:00
outside of Toronto called
16:03
Oakville, Ontario. And I was
16:03
about one year away from
16:06
finishing my university studies.
16:06
And I decided that I wanted to
16:10
take a big trip to South Africa.
16:10
This was my very first login
16:14
experience. I actually started
16:14
out Yeah, as a travel blogger as
16:18
a travel writer. And my
16:18
partnership was with hustling
16:22
international in South Africa.
16:22
So I was required to head on
16:26
over there for one and a half
16:26
months, and basically write
16:29
about my whole journey at every
16:29
single hospital from the north
16:33
down to the south. So from
16:33
Joburg all the way down to Cape
16:35
Town. It was amazing. Yeah, it
16:35
was an incredible experience. I
16:39
guess. Long story short, I ended
16:39
up meeting my husband there. So
16:44
we did a two year long distance
16:44
relationship. He was German or
16:47
is German. And I was Canadian.
16:47
So we did that long distance. I
16:51
moved to Thailand for a stint. I
16:51
moved to India first and and
16:55
then finally, he convinced me to
16:55
move to Germany. Wow. So
16:59  Shaun B
first of all, I had no
16:59
idea. I don't think I had an
17:01
idea about the South African
17:01
connection for you. What was
17:03
your time like in South Africa?
17:03
Other than the fact that you met
17:07
the love of your life?
17:08  Jenna
Yeah, I think I'm a
17:08
little bit biased now. I mean,
17:10
that entire trip. It did not. It
17:10
not only allowed me to meet my
17:14
husband now but it also allowed
17:14
me to kickstart basically my
17:18
career working as a freelancer
17:18
and an entrepreneur working for
17:22
myself, which has entirely
17:22
changed my life. So
17:26
looking,
17:27
I mean, separating the two parts
17:27
that travel there was also
17:30
absolutely incredible. I have to
17:30
say the people there were
17:33
amazing and the sights there
17:33
were just Oh, yeah, amazing.
17:38  Shaun B
Yeah, so you so you had
17:38
two years of long distance. That
17:43
must have been pretty tough on
17:43
you guys.
17:45  Jenna
So yes, I mean, that's
17:45
pretty much where you were you
17:48
realize is it worth it? Or is it
17:48
not worth it? Right? And I have
17:51
to be honest, after two years, I
17:51
realized you know what, this
17:55
isn't working for me I could
17:55
never imagine moving to Germany
17:58
let alone learning an entirely
17:58
new language I thought I'm never
18:02
going to find a job in marketing
18:02
and in all honesty, I didn't
18:05
until we started living in
18:05
Freiburg and in Freiburg. The
18:08
opportunities there for English
18:08
speakers are quite slim to none.
18:12
And so when I first thought
18:12
about it, I just thought, you
18:15
know, it's not an option for me.
18:15
And he originally said, I will
18:19
move to Canada and be a garbage
18:19
man, you know, toilet if I need
18:23
to. I want to be
18:26  Shaun B
that I'm sorry, Jenna,
18:26
that is romance. I will be a
18:29
garbage man for you that should
18:29
be on a postcard or like one of
18:31
those Hallmark cards somewhere.
18:35  Jenna
However, he did not
18:35
follow through.
18:39  Shaun B
Well, that's the point.
18:39
They don't put on Hallmark
18:40
Hallmark cards anyway. Okay, so
18:40
So how did that work? Then? What
18:44
what triggered the move to
18:44
Germany in the end?
18:48  Jenna
Oh, it was and I've said
18:48
it before. And I'll say it
18:51
again, it was my mother, because
18:51
my mother was a single parent
18:55
raising three children on very,
18:55
very little money. And so she
18:59
taught me how to be you know,
18:59
this independent woman who, who
19:02
didn't need help for many man
19:02
and that I could do it all
19:05
myself. And there was one day
19:05
where I decided that, you know,
19:09
we need to split up, this just
19:09
wasn't gonna work. He was not
19:12
going to move to Canada and give
19:12
up his career as a dentist. And
19:15
I was just not going to learn a
19:15
brand new language and move to
19:17
Germany and leave my whole life
19:17
back in Canada. So I think we
19:22
broke up for about two weeks.
19:22
And that was the toughest two
19:24
weeks ever. And when my mom came
19:24
to me and said, You know what,
19:28
this is different. And I've
19:28
never said this, and I can't
19:32
believe I'm saying this, but I
19:32
think that you should give up
19:36
your life and move to Germany
19:36
for this man. Wow.
19:39  Shaun B
Wow.
19:40  Jenna
Yeah. selling point
19:40
there.
19:42  Shaun B
Yeah, that's, that's
19:42
pretty huge. So then, so then
19:45
you kind of called him up and
19:45
said, Okay, let's do it. Or how
19:48
did that how did that how did
19:48
those those planning stages
19:51
look? Yeah,
19:52  Jenna
baby steps. I think
19:52
everybody also needs to do that
19:55
as well. Right. I told myself,
19:55
you know what, I'm going to quit
19:57
my job and I'm going to come
19:57
there and If I think back and it
20:01
doesn't work well, all I did
20:01
quit was my job. You know, I
20:04
didn't give up my life or my
20:04
friends or my family or
20:07
anything. So I would go there
20:07
for a few months, see how it
20:10
worked, see if I would find a
20:10
job and if I could succeed there
20:13
if I could learn the language
20:13
and basically just took it step
20:16
by step by step, our initial
20:16
decision was that we were going
20:20
to wait until he finished his
20:20
studies in Freiburg and then
20:23
move to the UK so that I could
20:23
get an English speaking job and
20:26
we could essentially meet
20:26
halfway. That didn't end up
20:30
happening because of some family
20:30
matters. His his pop up actually
20:34
ended up passing away sadly. So
20:34
we decided to move north to
20:38
decider off and that was the big
20:38
pushing decision to come up
20:41
here.
20:41  Shaun B
Okay to disel Dorf,
20:41
which is interesting was what
20:44
was the connection with
20:44
Dusseldorf,
20:46  Jenna
his entire family, it was
20:46
a was from here, they originated
20:49
from Berlin, they were all born
20:49
there, but they moved over to
20:52
Dusseldorf. So I have to be
20:52
honest and say that when we were
20:56
planning on coming to visit off,
20:56
it was simply only for his
20:59
family. I really, I had been
20:59
here I had visited his family
21:02
and I really, really didn't like
21:02
it.
21:05  Shaun B
We really didn't like
21:05
what what Didn't you like about
21:08
Dusseldorf?
21:09  Jenna
I think when you first
21:09
come here, you've got this, I
21:12
guess, basic tourist
21:12
understanding of what the city
21:14
is like. And that's usually art
21:14
and fashion, the art fashion
21:19
capital of Germany. And that is
21:19
not what I'm about whatsoever.
21:23
You know, I love thrifting I
21:23
love flea markets. I love
21:26
hiking, I love nature. None of
21:26
that screams Jenna. However, I
21:33
mean, once you peel back the
21:33
layers, of course, that's what
21:35
got me interested. And that's
21:35
what made me stay and actually
21:39
end up falling in love with the
21:39
city at the end.
21:42  Shaun B
Yeah. So what was that
21:42
first period of time, like? So
21:46
you moved, you moved to Germany
21:46
with the idea that you were
21:49
going to give this relationship
21:49
a chance you were giving up a
21:51
career? What was that first
21:51
period of time, like when you
21:54
were confronted with the culture
21:54
in all its glory?
21:57  Jenna
I think I have to divide
21:57
that into two different
22:00
sections, basically. And I say
22:00
that because when I first came
22:03
here, I didn't entirely have the
22:03
intention of living the rest of
22:06
my life here. So when you first
22:06
come and you think, Oh, this is
22:09
going to be an amazing
22:09
experience, you know, if we hate
22:12
it, we could both move back to
22:12
Canada or we could move to the
22:15
UK. So when I first got started,
22:15
I was so excited. You know, I
22:18
did Oktoberfest and I did all of
22:18
the big castles and I saw all
22:22
these amazing, stereotypical
22:22
German cobblestone streets and
22:26
half timbered houses. And this
22:26
was amazing, but it wasn't until
22:30
I moved to Dusseldorf at a very
22:30
terrible time might I add
22:34
because I would not recommend
22:34
any accent moving to Germany in
22:38
January or February. Those are
22:38
like the worst rainiest months.
22:42  Shaun B
It is memory is I said
22:42
it in a recent podcast episode
22:46
as well talking about someone
22:46
who arrived here in winter. That
22:49
winter is as it is, it's it's in
22:49
Germany can be a little bit get
22:53
your butt down because it's it
22:53
snows we just had snow recently
22:56
where I am the past few days,
22:56
which is wonderful because it's
22:58
fresh snow. But after that it's
22:58
just gray and dreary and short
23:03
days and rain. And it's it's it
23:03
can really get you down in
23:07
February is the worst of it. So
23:07
yeah, I that's interesting that
23:09
it's come up again. And there
23:09
you have it. Don't move to
23:12
Germany in January or February.
23:12
That's that's a big bit of
23:15
advice. No. All right. So that
23:15
was your experience,
23:19  Jenna
it will that it will
23:19
impact everything.
23:21  Shaun B
Yeah. Okay, so the so
23:21
that was the the initial thing
23:25
was a bad time of the year to be
23:25
there.
23:27  Jenna
Yeah. And so the second
23:27
part, basically, is that I mean,
23:30
I moved here, in a very terrible
23:30
period, I moved from the
23:34
blackforest, where there's so
23:34
much beauty and where so many
23:38
tourists go to visit Germany,
23:38
because it is so amazing, to a
23:41
city, and then to actually
23:41
realizing, Okay, you know what,
23:45
this is my life and I actually
23:45
have to settle down. So I
23:47
actually have to find a better
23:47
phone plan, and I have to buy
23:51
insurance for myself and I have
23:51
to get a proper job. And all of
23:54
that is when it kind of just hit
23:54
me. And that's when the culture
23:58
shock started hitting me and
23:58
everything really started to
24:00
drag me down. And I think it's
24:00
just a process that we all go
24:03
through, you know, you have that
24:03
stage of excitement. And then
24:06
you have that stage of
24:06
realizing, okay, this is my life
24:09
now. And it does take time, and
24:09
there are so many different
24:13
steps that you need to take to
24:13
relocate here that even perhaps
24:17
your German husband isn't
24:17
knowledgeable to let you know
24:20
about or to warn you about
24:20
certain things that you need to
24:23
know before getting started.
24:24  Shaun B
Oh, yeah, I think the
24:24
Germans are oblivious to the
24:26
whole process. They have no idea
24:26
what what it actually takes to
24:30
get settled in, in Germany.
24:32  Jenna
Exactly.
24:34  Shaun B
Did you have
24:34
discussions or thoughts at the
24:36
time like this is not gonna work
24:36
out? Let's let's move.
24:41  Jenna
Definitely. I think
24:41
that's where the conversation of
24:44
moving to the UK kept constantly
24:44
coming up. And I don't know how
24:49
or why I did it. But I just kept
24:49
pushing through. And at some
24:53
point, I realized, you know
24:53
what, I'm not the only person
24:56
who's going through this and I
24:56
think as tough as it is to
24:59
relocate to God It's probably
24:59
not going to change anywhere
25:02
else, you know, it's a little
25:02
bit easier if you're able to do
25:04
the process in English. But the
25:04
relocation process, you're still
25:08
going to go through all of those
25:08
stages as you would in Germany,
25:12
or perhaps the UK or wherever in
25:12
the world, you relocate. So I
25:14
just realized, you know, you
25:14
can't just chickened out and run
25:16
away, if you want this
25:16
experience. And if you want to
25:20
move to be with somebody who you
25:20
love, then you're just going to
25:23
have to do it. And that's when I
25:23
realized that I wasn't alone.
25:27
And although I could not find
25:27
this content online, I was going
25:31
to do that for myself. And I was
25:31
going to share all of my
25:34
experiences with my readers.
25:36  Shaun B
Okay. And that's is
25:36
that when you started life in
25:39
Dusseldorf,
25:41  Jenna
exactly, that's the whole
25:41
basis behind the blog. And it
25:45
was also a selfish creation,
25:45
basically, because when I had
25:49
questions, I knew I'm going to
25:49
add it to the blog. So I'm going
25:52
to contact whoever will help me
25:52
answer this question. And ask
25:56
them to write a English blog
25:56
post about it on the site. So I
25:59
wasn't actually creating the
25:59
content at the beginning,
26:02
because I wasn't the expert. It
26:02
was the experts, the German
26:06
experts who spoke English who
26:06
would do it, and in turn, they
26:09
generated tons of income, you
26:09
know, freebie income from my
26:13
website to help people better
26:13
relocate.
26:16  Shaun B
Yeah. And then with
26:16
that website, it looks like it's
26:19
grown into something quite
26:19
substantial, right?
26:21  Jenna
It really took off. And
26:21
when we talked about me founding
26:26
this travel, writing career, or
26:26
this travel blog, I was making a
26:29
decent income, usually through
26:29
writing for other platforms, but
26:33
never on my own website. So this
26:33
is something that really shocked
26:36
me when I realized, Oh, my God,
26:36
you know, within one month, my
26:39
readership on life and decided
26:39
off was 10 times what it had
26:42
ever been in the last five years
26:42
on my travel blog, and I
26:46
thought, why, you know, I
26:46
thought I was writing this just
26:48
for myself, and maybe, you know,
26:48
10 other people in the city. But
26:52
it exploded, and then I created
26:52
a course and helped them learn
26:55
how to relocate to Dusseldorf.
26:55
And then I had number of people
26:58
contacting me saying, why don't
26:58
you do this for Germany, you
27:01
know, it's so difficult. And so
27:01
that's where I am now is I've
27:04
been built on the process
27:04
created this YouTube channel is
27:07
life in Germany, and also
27:07
created the website life in
27:10
Germany calm, which is then
27:10
basically offering this entire
27:14
course of not just the basics,
27:14
you know, the visa requirements
27:17
and moving to the city and
27:17
getting your house in your
27:20
apartment in your phone plan.
27:20
But like, also like the nitty
27:22
gritty information that nobody
27:22
really tells you when you first
27:25
get here. So
27:27  Shaun B
and as I said, I'll put
27:27
those links in the show notes.
27:29
People can have a look at them
27:29
and your, your YouTube channel
27:33
as well, which is fairly new.
27:33
You just started that fairly
27:36
recently.
27:37  Jenna
Yes. Just a few months
27:37
ago.
27:38  Shaun B
Yeah. Last year, you we
27:38
mentioned, I think it was last
27:44
year that you had the baby.
27:44
Well, when did you have the
27:47  Jenna
baby? Two years now to
27:47
you was born September 2018. So
27:51
yeah, just over two years, two
27:51
years. And
27:53  Shaun B
then last year, you
27:53
were in Canada on maternity
27:56
leave. So having spent How long?
27:56
Have you been in Germany at that
28:00
point? Four?
28:02  Jenna
or five years? Okay,
28:02
yeah, four and a half, five
28:06
years.
28:07  Shaun B
So you'd been in
28:07
Germany for five years, and then
28:09
decided to spend at least part
28:09
of your maternity leave back in
28:12
Canada. So you went back with
28:12
the child? So I'm interested.
28:16
After five years, I'd assume you
28:16
were feeling fairly at home here
28:19
in Germany, you'd already
28:19
decided this is a place that
28:21
you're going to be long term.
28:21
When you went back to Canada,
28:23
what was that like for you?
28:27  Jenna
Exciting, amazing, and
28:27
stressful all at the same time.
28:30
I mean, you go back, and you
28:30
realize that as much as it's
28:33
still home, when you go to your
28:33
parents house, it's not your
28:37
home, you know, especially when
28:37
you have a child because then
28:39
your home becomes something so
28:39
much more important than just a
28:43
space. It's like, where they
28:43
grow up, you know, where all of
28:46
their memories happen. So going
28:46
back home was so exciting to so
28:51
that my entire family could then
28:51
meet my son, but then also feel
28:56
a little bit lost almost like
28:56
somewhere in the middle between
29:00
I'm not German, but I'm not
29:00
Canadian, either.
29:02  Shaun B
Yeah. So you could
29:02
perhaps say that you had some
29:05
reverse culture shock when you
29:05
in back or there was there
29:08
wasn't any kind of thoughts
29:08
where you thought, Wow, it would
29:11
be it would actually be good to
29:11
live in Canada?
29:14  Jenna
Yes, and no. So I mean,
29:14
at the end of the day, it makes
29:18
a lot more sense to stay in
29:18
Germany. And I say that because
29:21
there's just so many added
29:21
benefits to having and raising a
29:24
family here in Germany, you
29:24
know, you've got free education.
29:28
And the support that you get
29:28
from the German government is
29:30
just incredible. I've never had
29:30
a child in Canada. So it's not
29:34
easy to compare, but from what I
29:34
know, through my friends and my
29:36
family, I think that Germany is
29:36
just such a special place to
29:40
raise a family and that I should
29:40
be honored to be here and I am
29:43
honored to be here. But then
29:43
you've always also got that
29:45
feeling of we're in Germany and
29:45
my entire family who is very
29:50
loving very good with kids and
29:50
who misses their grandson and
29:53
their nephew so badly, that it
29:53
breaks my heart knowing that
29:58
we're living here in Germany,
29:58
and they're all Back home. So,
30:01
yeah, it's it's tough. But I
30:01
think we all go through that
30:05
when we move to Germany and then
30:05
go back home and then come back
30:09
again to Germany, I think you've
30:09
really the missing home, that
30:14
feeling of missing home just
30:14
like kind of blows up in your
30:18
face when you arrive back.
30:19  Shaun B
Yeah. So so it's
30:19
definitely clear that Germany
30:24
starts changing you, the longer
30:24
that you are here, and the more
30:26
integrated that you become, what
30:26
do you think the way are some of
30:30
the ways that that Germany
30:30
changed you, I'd say
30:34  Jenna
in the biggest aspect of
30:34
my life, Germany has changed me.
30:38
for the better, I would say that
30:38
I stand up for myself a lot more
30:43
than I used to in Canada. Back
30:43
in Canada, we typically say
30:47
sorry for everything, I'm sure
30:47
you've heard of that before.
30:50
Even when, like somebody bumps
30:50
you, or like they spill their
30:54
coffee on you, you turn around
30:54
and say, Oh, my God, I'm so
30:57
sorry. Like, I don't know why we
30:57
do it. But we do. And so in
31:01
certain situations where perhaps
31:01
somebody yells at me here, for
31:05
something that I didn't actually
31:05
do, or that I wasn't at fault
31:08
for, in Canada, you would just
31:08
typically say, I'm so sorry,
31:13
like, I didn't do that. But I'm
31:13
sorry, anyway, and you'd back
31:15
off. Whereas now that I've lived
31:15
in Germany long enough for you
31:19
notice the Germans really, like
31:19
take a stand and, and speak up
31:24
on behalf of them or their
31:24
family. And so now I really feel
31:27
like if somebody accuses me of
31:27
something I didn't do, or they
31:31
do something mean to me, I can
31:31
stand up for myself and said,
31:34
you know, excuse me?
31:38
It's a good feeling. Yeah. And
31:38
what
31:40  Shaun B
is your relationship
31:40
with Germans themselves? Have
31:43
you gotten gotten to understand
31:43
them a bit better than when you
31:46
arrived? or? Yeah, I
31:48  Jenna
think that the biggest
31:48
factor here is once you really
31:52
start to learn a language, and
31:52
not just being able to speak
31:55
German, but being able to speak
31:55
German in a conversation, and
31:59
somewhat being able to let your
31:59
own personality shine, and I
32:02
still struggle with this,
32:02
because of course, my German is
32:04
not perfect, and my grammar is
32:04
absolutely atrocious. But slowly
32:10
and step by step, I can begin to
32:10
let my personality shine. And I
32:14
think that that helps a lot of
32:14
the time when meeting Germans
32:17
and when making friends, I still
32:17
find it difficult. I have to be
32:20
honest, I think it's just I've
32:20
said this before, also in other
32:24
videos, where it's kind of like
32:24
peeling back the layers of like
32:28
onion or garlic. You know, like,
32:28
it takes a lot of time to make
32:32
friends with somebody with a
32:32
German. But I find that once you
32:36
really get to the core, and you
32:36
become friends with them,
32:39
they're really friends for life.
32:39
And I've I know that people have
32:41
probably read and heard about
32:41
this stereotype before, but it
32:45
is very good. It
32:46  Shaun B
Yeah, it's it's
32:46
something that keeps coming up
32:48
on this podcast, as well from a
32:48
multitude of guests. Um, and
32:52
another thing, just, I mean,
32:52
it's a little off topic right
32:55
now, but it's kind of to do with
32:55
the German culture and the
32:57
Germans is that I saw that you
32:57
mentioned in one of your videos,
33:01
that you love the German
33:01
barbecue culture, which is
33:04
usually which is interesting,
33:04
because usually, this is one
33:06
thing that people from their own
33:06
cultures, they love the way that
33:08
they do the barbecue. So So tell
33:08
me what it is. That's a German
33:11
barbecue culture that you?
33:14  Jenna
Well, if we're comparing
33:14
North American barbecue culture,
33:16
we're talking like burgers, and
33:16
hotdogs, right? Okay, so it's
33:21
coming from somebody, I actually
33:21
only chicken, I don't eat any
33:24
other type of meat. So the
33:24
barbecue culture back in Canada
33:27
is pretty much non existent. For
33:27
me, I don't really enjoy it. But
33:31
it's not so much about the meat
33:31
aspect of it here in Germany,
33:34
it's more about when they decide
33:34
to have barbecues, because I
33:37
find now that my summers are so
33:37
much more enjoyable here in
33:42
Germany, because we pretty much
33:42
have a barbecue every single
33:46
day. And this differs from like
33:46
groups of friends and groups of
33:48
families, of course, and perhaps
33:48
what city or what town you live
33:51
in. But I think it's so cool
33:51
that you know, Tuesday
33:55
afternoon, you come home from
33:55
work, and you've got this period
33:58
of time where you're just like,
33:58
let's go have a barbecue, you
34:01
know, you go you have a barbecue
34:01
anywhere people do it in the
34:03
park here, they do it. If you
34:03
don't have, or at least in the
34:07
cities, I'm speaking in terms of
34:07
Germany, there's not that much
34:10
space, you don't have backyards
34:10
and stuff. So whereas in Canada,
34:13
you would just like turn on your
34:13
gas barbeque here, they
34:16
actually, you know, light the
34:16
charcoal and take it to the park
34:19
or take it to the beach or
34:19
whatever. And it's just like,
34:22
it's an entire experience within
34:22
itself rather than let's just go
34:26
make dinner. Yeah,
34:27  Shaun B
yeah, it's, I must say,
34:27
coming from South Africa, you
34:30
would have noticed that the
34:30
South Africans also love their
34:32
barbecues, which they call
34:32
briars in South Africa. And it's
34:38
it's something that I can
34:38
understand about the Germans as
34:40
well. I really like I really
34:40
like their approach to any
34:43
reason for a barbecue and the
34:43
way that doesn't even have to be
34:46
that great. It's just, let's
34:46
let's have a barbecue. So that's
34:49
pretty cool. Yeah, so Jenna,
34:49
what I ask the guests that come
34:56
on my show at the end of our
34:56
interview is what is the one big
35:00
bit of advice that you can offer
35:00
to other foreigners who are
35:03
coming to Germany.
35:05  Jenna
Well, I'll roll back to
35:05
that point that we mentioned do
35:08
not move here in January or
35:08
February. I'm not kidding when I
35:12
say this, like I've had my fair
35:12
share, I talked to experts, not
35:16
only in Dusseldorf, but from
35:16
around Germany now. And from
35:21
what I've seen, and from what
35:21
I've experienced, there are so
35:24
many of them, who basically give
35:24
up halfway through their
35:28
relocation process, because they
35:28
just haven't been able to
35:30
experience the best of Germany
35:30
when they first got here. And I
35:34
think, as important as it is to
35:34
go through the entire relocation
35:37
process of all your paperwork,
35:37
and everything, it is just as
35:41
important to make sure that you
35:41
enjoy your life here in Germany
35:44
before getting started. So if
35:44
you can also like come over for
35:48
a month beforehand, or don't
35:48
start work right away, and
35:52
really get to know Germany for
35:52
what it is because there are so
35:54
many travel opportunities here.
35:54
You know, even in the middle of
35:57
a pandemic, like there, there
35:57
are so many places to see even
36:01
in my own city or in your own
36:01
town and 30 minutes drive, like
36:04
for me, I drive 30 minutes, and
36:04
I'm in the Netherlands I drive
36:07
40 minutes, and I'm in Belgium.
36:07
And this goes for pretty much
36:10
anywhere where you live in
36:10
Germany, you know, we're
36:12
surrounded by amazing, beautiful
36:12
countries. And there's just so
36:16
much to experience and so many
36:16
beautiful little towns here and
36:19
whatnot. So if you can get a
36:19
little bit of that as a taste,
36:23
then you can jump into your
36:23
relocation process, get all that
36:26
paperwork done, and really get a
36:26
fresh, good, healthy start here
36:30
in Germany, and then also look
36:30
forward to Well, what else do I
36:34
want to see here? You know, what
36:34
else do I want? I'm serious. And
36:37
a lot of expats and a lot of
36:37
internationals. I mean, the
36:40
whole reason at the beginning
36:40
for starting life and decider
36:43
was Yes, because I had troubles
36:43
relocating here, because I just
36:46
felt like I didn't have that
36:46
support. And I also didn't have
36:48
the money to you know, hire a
36:48
relocation agent. However, the
36:53
biggest part of creating this
36:53
website was to actually promote
36:56
other experts not to leave me, I
36:56
made so many friends. So many
37:01
friends at the beginning when I
37:01
first got here, and almost all
37:04
of them are gone. And it's not
37:04
because Germany's a terrible
37:07
country, it's the nature too
37:07
much. It is it's the nature of
37:11
relocating as an expert, it's,
37:11
it's a huge process, regardless
37:14
of where you go. But I basically
37:14
wanted to create this website so
37:17
that they saw, you know, it is
37:17
an easy process, you just have
37:20
to know exactly how to do it.
37:20
And if nobody is going to be
37:23
there holding your hands, you
37:23
know, telling you all of these
37:25
little tidbits of information,
37:25
that that's hard. And so I would
37:29
say before you come here and
37:29
just make sure that you're ready
37:31
and that you have a plan and
37:31
that you don't just jump into it
37:35
all at once. And I I guess this
37:35
is why I why I created life in
37:40
germany.com. And why I created
37:40
this welcome program is because
37:43
there's other information like
37:43
when you first move here, you
37:46
know, you might jump on the
37:46
first phone plan that you see
37:49
because you don't know what else
37:49
to do. Whereas you could go to
37:53
like an auto shop across the
37:53
street, perhaps and pay 40 euros
37:56
for your phone plan. Whereas Did
37:56
anybody tell you that you can
37:59
actually pay 499 for a phone
37:59
plan, you know what I mean, or
38:02
like that you might get locked
38:02
into church taxes if you don't
38:06
know how to fill out your
38:06
registration form properly, or
38:09
like little tidbits of
38:09
information like your
38:12
electricity contract, if you
38:12
just decide to let them like
38:15
choose your electricity package
38:15
for you, then you might get
38:18
stuck in this like Limbo zone,
38:18
which is like the most expensive
38:21
electricity package that you
38:21
could possibly have. There's so
38:24
many ways to save money, and
38:24
there's so many easier ways to
38:27
get around things. There's like,
38:27
you can file your taxes in
38:30
English online, there's just so
38:30
many ways to make it so much
38:33
easier. And I think that people
38:33
really need to make sure that
38:36
they're well prepared before
38:36
they get here and that they know
38:39
exactly how to do everything and
38:39
that they don't move here in the
38:41
wintertime so that they can make
38:41
the best of their experience
38:45
from the get go.
38:46  Shaun B
Yes. And if you if you
38:46
do have to come in young winter
38:50
time, be aware that you're not
38:50
seeing an accurate
38:54
representation of the country.
38:54
Everyone is kind of a little
38:57
gloomier the weather, there's
38:57
not much to see and do and the
39:00
weather is not that fun. It gets
39:00
better a spring is incredible.
39:04
In Germany, summer is amazing.
39:04
But somebody just said surprise
39:07
me. I was not aware that you
39:07
could do your text returns in
39:09
English,
39:10  Jenna
right? I know. I think
39:10
the website is called joy algo.
39:15
Okay. And they do it. They do it
39:15
all in English, they ask you all
39:19
your quest, all the questions
39:19
that you need. Do you have
39:20
children, like do you own a
39:20
property? Do you own this, that
39:23
blah, blah, blah, you go through
39:23
the whole process and they send
39:26
it to the finance AMS to the tax
39:26
office for you? And it's I think
39:29
it's like 30 or 35 euros. So
39:29
it's super cheap option and it's
39:32
an English and we're I mean,
39:32
we're recording this in December
39:35
2020. But you know, I think in
39:35
three four months from now,
39:39
there's so many other
39:39
opportunities where you can do
39:41
things in English here in
39:41
Germany that it's getting easier
39:44
and easier to relocate.
39:45  Shaun B
Absolutely. Where can
39:45
people find you online? Jenna,
39:48  Jenna
over at life Indesit
39:48
off.com that's d u E. You know
39:52
what the love and life in
39:52
germany.com of course also over
39:57
on YouTube and Facebook and
39:57
Twitter, you name it. But I mean
40:01
Google life and does it offer
40:01
life in Germany and some stuff
40:03
should pop?
40:03  Shaun B
Alright, and of course
40:03
the links in the show notes so
40:05
you'll be able to click on and
40:05
go directly there. Jenna, thank
40:09
you for, for making the time to
40:09
come on the podcast. It was a
40:13
lot of fun talking to you.
40:15  Jenna
Thanks so much for having
40:15
me. I love talking about all of
40:17
like, my history and my stories
40:17
and everything and I hope that
40:21
other experts could learn from
40:21
it and also, yeah, have an
40:24
amazing experience relocating to
40:24
Germany.
40:27  Shaun B
Okay, that is it for
40:27
this week. Go donate in the name
40:31
of the Germany experience at
40:31
segi pedco The Germany
40:33
experienced D Ford slash charity
40:33
2020. And you'll be you'll be
40:38
doing a good thing. Yeah, it's
40:38
time for as this as the jingle
40:41
says it's time for forgiving. So
40:41
let's give let's Donate. Thanks
40:46
for listening music in this
40:46
episode by my band 10 cent
40:50
Jane's additional music by Ryan
40:50
Anderson until the end. This is
40:53
the end stay healthy out there.
41:08
Which means giving.
41:19
It's the Germany experience.
41:31
The second saggy padfone x
41:31
spectrum on the podcast donation
41:41
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