Becoming Bridge Builders

Racial equity, anti-racism, and critical race theory are terms that are breaking us as a community. This podcast seeks to focus on these diverse issues. We will delve deeper into the subjects many are reluctant to debate. I don’t consistently agree with my guest, nor do they always see events from my Christian viewpoint. But here we create a safe space for discussion. You can’t understand if you merely have one side of history. The aim here is to get to the core of the issues. There are individuals who are hurting, and their issues are being disregarded or avoided. On this podcast, we analyze ways to build bridges over the streams of disharmony. The focus will be on practical solutions to complex issues. Only truth can build the bridge to wholeness. Hosted by B. Keith Haney, pastor and thought leader.


episode 8: How Does The Black Lives Matter Movement Differ from The Dr. King, Jr. Led Civil Rights Movement [transcript]

Today’s podcast is a conversation about how what we are seeing today is different from the Civil Rights Movement of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Movement is defined in part as "a series of organized activities working toward an objective; also: an organized effort to promote or attain an end" (Merriam-Webster Online).

 The Civil Rights Movement was an era dedicated to activism for equal rights and treatment of African Americans in the United States. During this period, people rallied for social, legal, political, and cultural changes to prohibit discrimination and end segregation.
The Black Lives Matter movement seems to be lacking the support of the religious community and is marked by more riots and violence versus the non-violence approach of Dr. King, Jr.

My guest for this critical conversation is Rev. Dr. Roosevelt Gray. As director of LCMS Black Ministry, the long-established Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod (LCMS) ministry serving predominantly black communities and ministering to African immigrants, the Rev. Roosevelt Gray, Jr. provides leadership and direction for LCMS districts, congregations, schools, and related organizations as they minister to minority groups in their communities across the country. 

Welcome to a podcast that will challenge your conventional way of thinking, while encouraging you and giving you practical ways to build bridges where there is division.    

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 2020-09-29  41m
01:12  Host Keith Haney
Welcome to this edition of the light breakthrough. I am your host Keith Haney. it is conceivable the systems you are operating under and coach are crushing you, and you need consolation. In this season and time you may be seeking inspiration. The goal of this podcast is to give you inspiration, practical solutions and challenging conversations with a wide variety of guests and relevant topics. If you're not engaged a local church, I pray this podcast will encourage you to seek out a deeper connection with your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The world is changing our ministry methods, not our beliefs, you to reflect that. This may stretch you beyond your comfort zone, but you will never lose sight of who sits on the throne. So sit back, put on your seatbelt and get ready for transformation. today's podcast is a conversation about how we're seeing today is different from the civil rights movement. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. civil rights are defined as a non political rights of citizens, especially those guaranteed to US citizenship by the 13th and 14th Amendments of the Constitution, and by acts of Congress, according to Webster dictionary, the 13th Amendment of the Constitution, abolish slavery in the US and the 14th amendment issued ensure that African Americans have their legal citizenship and equal protection under the law. The National Archives experience puts it that way. Movement is defined in part as a series of organized activities, working toward objective or an organized effort to promote or attain in. The Civil Rights Movement was an era dedicated to activism with equal rights and treatment of African Americans the United States. During this period, people rally for social, legal, political, and cultural changes to prohibit discrimination and in segregation. My guest today Reverend Roosevelt gray is a director of LCMS black ministry, a long established Missouri senate ministry serving predominantly black communities and ministering to African American immigrants. The Reverend Roosevelt gray Jr, provides a leadership and direction for the LCMS districts, congregations schools, and related organizations as they administered to minority groups in their communities across the country. Also, Dr. Gray is will serve as a liaison to the church wide black clergy caucus and oversee the development and resources to support LC Ms. Black ministry throughout the Senate. Prior to joining the staff and LC ms International Center in St. Louis, Dr. Gray served as Assistant to the President for missions and evangelism in the LC ms ms. Michigan district. He called accepted in 2001. He served as a pastor at faith Lutheran Church and listen to diminishes in Detroit, from 1971 to 2001, Director of Admissions and recruitment and vicars at Concordia Theological Seminary in Fort Wayne, Indiana, from 1994 to 1997. And as a pastor at Mount Calvary Lutheran Church in Houston, Texas, from 1998 to 1994. He graduated as an eight the master of divinity degree from Korea technical seminary 9970 got a bachelor's degree in printing production and management from Alabama a&m. rival to sell University have mentioned that Dr. Gray receives a doctorate a divinity degree from Concordia seminary St. Louis. It was dated 19 July June 19 1998, at St. Paul's a church in Jacksonville, Florida. His home congregation installed him on June 26 1998, as pastor of Calvary in Houston, Texas, and he's married to later, Vanessa. We're so great to have you. Thank you, Dr. Ray, for joining us on this important discussion. Wonderful being here with us today. So let me start out with an easy question. I like to get my my guests up and kind of warm up. So what's the best advice anybody ever gave you about race?
05:14  Rev Roosevelt Gray
Well, my father gave me some good advice. You know, I we grew up in the segregated South Montgomery, Alabama was highly segregated when I was born in 1954. You know, Dr. King cranium in 1955 at Dexter Avenue Baptist Church, only probably 30 yards from the state capitol where they flew the Confederate flag, the statue of Robert E. Lee. There, Dr. King came to preach at Dexter Avenue Baptist Church. Well, you know, in the south you had really government segregation, statewide segregation. And basically the working poor all lived in the same communities just about because we were the working board, you know, and we live next door to an elderly white couple and the man was just he was just a racist. There's no other words to say about it. Or you call us the N word and do all of that stuff. But he was Getting up in age and years and had some stability and he went fishing and my father knew where he fished that. And his wife came over to my father and said that her husband had not gotten back from fishing. And so could we go look for him. And we did. I was at driving age at that time must have been around whenever you get your driver license. And so my father and I went out, we found him, you know, he was discombobulated, we got him put father put him in his car, I drove his car, put it, put it in his driveway. My father, you know, we got him out, kept him in the house. He got to the door. And he had he said to his wife, why did you send those ends after me? Father, my father just shook his head and said, Come on, Jr. Named after my father, come on, Jr. And he said, Jr, listen, he said, You can't, you can't change how people see you. But you can always change how you see them. Don't ever let someone who's treating you or calling you that we're dictate how you respond to them. always respond out of kindness out of courtesy. Because it doesn't, it doesn't mean anything to you about how you feel who you are, it really says a lot about them. And that's how I always have seen this race thing. And it's not about me, it's really about the person, whether or not they they say in racist words, the terminology or whatever, it's about them, it's not about me. Now my thing is always try to help them to understand their perception of people of other races. And thereby, then, hopefully, I can educate them. So so I don't get very excited growing up in the segregated south. Here in those words all the time being segregated from, from from other races, I for at least the white race, I don't get quickly offended. I try to help people to work through those processes. You know, I went to school from elementary school all the way through high school without one white person being in my class. Wow. You know, they do segregated back in 1954. Right. Right. And, but they did not integrate. So the South desegregated, they passed the law of desegregation, but the South never integrated. And so when they pass the next law that said, that said, separate but equal, it's not equal at all. Because basically, you give people inferior materials to try to educate them. And so he said, No, we have to do away with separate but equal. And basically what happened in the south and Montgomery, Alabama, they sent some of the black kids to the white schools. They closed down some of the black Cuse schools that were deeply embedded in the black community. They never sent any of the white kids to the middle in the in the, in the in the high schools, but they sent some of the black kids over to white middles and high schools. And he said some of the white teachers over to the black schools, and very few of the black teachers over to the white schools. And that's how they basically integrated. Wow. So I know this story, you know, I believe this story, right? Like you say, You grew up at a time when, when basically, they had fought the battles of civil rights and everything and the laws had been changed and passed. But I oftentimes talk about the two laws, and I'm the one law is the juror law, that is the law that we put on the books that we says, you know, we desegregate it. But then there there is the there is the facto law. Well, how does that work? You know, you could simply say we have desegregated, but the the truth of the matter is, even today, we have really segregated ourselves in an urban and inner cities, because people have left the cities. And so it's how people's hearts are changed. When you think about what does the law mean and how to speak or carry out the law. You know, I was talking to a pastor recently, he didn't know the history of Greensboro, in our church body. And I could you just kind of for pastors who may be not aware of kind of the journey that black pastors went through in this church by to kind of give them kind of a lesson as to how different the journey was, if you were if you're a black pastor, which was Missouri Senate. Well, you know, it's a little church. It's a fascinating church body because in 1877, at their convention in Fort Wayne, Indiana, they had made the decision that they needed to do work among the southern blacks and the Indians. And so what they did they and they said, in order to do this, we need to train men to speak English, because you know, still pretty much a German speaking church body. And so they start training guys to speak English and then they they, they they sit one man south to go throughout the South. To identify what are the needs of the people in the south, and he came back and he said, Listen, I don't know what slavery looked like, but what's going on in the south now can't be too much more better than what slavery is. He said, Man, those people, people are living in deplorable conditions down there. No one has ever heard about the Rosa young fam Rosa could tell you how two people live. And he said, Yes, we need to do work there. So they commissioned a gentleman out of seminary to go south, he first went to Little Rock, Arkansas. Now you have to realize that in the south, it was state sponsored segregation, blacks and whites could not eat at the same counter could not go to the same school, could not go into the same Park cannot swim in the same swimming pool. It was basically state sponsored segregation. And so when they sent these pastors South the and they would go, and they would go into the black community. And then they had to live by what they called the Black codes. And those codes were that could not never go through the back door of a black family home, or could even go into a black family home. And they could never allow a black person to come through the front door of their home, they always had to go through the back door. That's where you see all of the old pictures of the south where they feed them out of the back door out of the kitchen. But that was the law of the land. And so when we started sending missionaries, South, most of those were all white missionaries, because we didn't have any black pastors in the church at that particular time. 1877 to about 18 by 1880. And so they started a church in Little Rock, Arkansas, because of segregation. The blacks cannot go up to the white church. And so the Mother Church that supported the church plan, basically found a building down the street, probably two blocks down the street. And they started the St. Paul colored Lutheran Church, you know, at that time, we were colored people. Yeah. And so then stuff that's a St. Paul colored Lutheran Church, our church grew by leaps and bounds, it would start with the a Sunday School, a day school, and a church would grow out of it. And so at one time, they hit nearly 150 kids, and they school Sunday school, and church came out of that. The church probably had about 45 or 50 members lasted about 35-40 years, and it closed. They went down to New Orleans at night at 78 and started mountain Zion Lutheran Church. And out of that now, that was one of the largest first church plants out of that group in New Orleans 1878, to about 1890, where most of those churches were started. And out of that is where we started getting the black pastors in the church. And so those black pastors in in the church couldn't go to our white seminaries Now, every now and then they would allow a black pastor in one of the white seminaries, but not a whole lot of them. And many of them didn't make it through they had trouble getting through the seminaries. Because basically, they're raised and so they started this school in Greensboro called Emanuel Lutheran School, a college in seminary, it basically was a college but they got all their theological education from there. They graduated with, with the a BA in theology. Those were the first black pastors to go out into the church full time. And that's where most of the early black pastors came for all of the pastors out of Louisiana, the church plants over in North Carolina, over in Maryland, over on that southeastern corner, most of the passes came through that. And then Rosa young came in in 19, when she came in 1916. And she started all of these churches in Alabama from 1916, to, you know, the 19 6065, where most of the churches were planted. And they started Selma, Concordia College, Alabama, which were Luther Luther Academy at one time, and then went to Concordia College Alabama. So that was the school that trained me men with their a degree and they would go on now the teachers would leave with a degree and go and teach in black congregations now, but the man would go on to one of our other institution, get their undergraduate degree and then go to go to the seminary, either in by this time we had closed Greensboro they went to Fort Wayne or either St. Louis seminary, but Greensboro was the seminary from 1890 to 1961. Fair the majority of the black pastors in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod graduated from because for whatever reason, they were told to go to green bar girl, it would be it would be best for you to go to school there. That's where we train our black pastors. Okay. Yeah, I was told to go to Fort Wayne because that's where I will be back. received? Well, listen, I understand that brother I understand.
16:16  Host Keith Haney
So you know, one of the thing I want to kind of cover before we get into kind of what's happening today in our world is those first group of black pastors came out, did not have or received the same benefits, and even salaries as other passions. When I was sharing this with other people. They were shocked that there was a different tier of compensation. Can you cover that?
16:39  Rev Roosevelt Gray
Oh, man? Yeah, yeah, it's fascinating. Most of those guys were, were not making nearly as much money as the white pastor. They were first they came in under what we call the synodical conference. That were all of the Lutheran two were together in a synoptical conference. All of these Senate's together and to not have a conference training these black pastors to be pastors in the south. It was only I forget the years but maybe in the after the closure greensborough that the open up the other districts for the black pastors to come into. It was set and I I don't know, I don't know. I have no evidence to this. But it was it was said that at one of the conventions, when they were allowing the black pastors have come into Senate to be rostered pastors and Senate. They were not roster pack they were they were roster patches in the Synodical or conference, not the Lutheran Church Missouri Senate. So they didn't belong to any of the other Senate's out there. They were basically in synoptical conference pastors. And when the senate then they closed down so nautical conference, and when the Synod's allowed them in, then Missouri, went to the different Senate's and said, okay, we need to let these black passes and you got passes in your region. Now, most of them when the Southern District Southern District finally opened up and brought those passes into their district, but not under the same pastoral salary structure and benefit structure. Now, think about this. Most of those passes were not on synoptical benefit structure at the time, they were getting paid through the synoptical conference. And so they didn't have the medical benefits and the other benefits that the other pastors had. And so when they came into the Senate, out of the synodical conference, then those districts had to figure out how to bring these pastors in, put them out on the benefit plan, and how that worked out. And so they worked out a plan for those early passes to come in. And to put them into the Concordia structure, you know, your benefit plans, retirement plans, and medical plans and all of that. But early on, they were not in that synoptical retirement plan, and benefit plan. And so a lot of them didn't have the benefits. Matter of fact, the pastor who was at Mount Calvary Lutheran Church, in Houston, Texas, my first call, when he died, he was not in the synoptical plan. He was still in the, in the not in the Synod's plan, said, he was still under the under the synoptical thing. And what happened, because Texas kind of pushed back on bringing the passes into their districts as part of the Texas district. So one of the white pastors had to fight for him when he died to get him benefits in the in the Senate, and to get his wife benefits. And so what happened there was he fought to get the wife the parsonage. And they figured out a way how to sell the wife, the parsonage and everything and, and gave her a little bit of a retirement money wasn't very much. But there were champion white pastors who champion the black passes to get the benefits. But they were not given the same benefits that the white pastors because they were not part of the synoptical structure at that time. Wow. So what you're saying what happened to church also mimic what happened in society? Correct. That there was there was a second tier of
20:05  Host Keith Haney
Yeah, you're a citizen, but not quite. Correct. Well, I mean, let's face it. Most of those were in the south. Sure. And the South in the south still lived under the segregated laws even when they when they desegregated as I said, we pass a law. The law says that we are segregated, but the hearts had not been segregated. And 19 1948 two young ladies out of New Orleans came to Houston, Texas, we had no black congregation in Houston, Texas, and in 1938. They came to Houston, Texas, they had been second generation black Lutherans
20:47  Rev Roosevelt Gray
confirmed catechized and everything. They went to Houston, Texas, they went downtown to the Mother Church, they live next door to the Mother Church downtown in third will work. They went to the church, they had no black members. I don't even know if they had any black Lutherans in Texas. They went to the church, they were stopped at the door. They said well, this is a white church. You may be looking for the Baptist Church down the street. This is a Lutheran. And they said, No, we are Lutherans. And the people looked at him and said, Well, wait a minute now, you're Lutheran. You're not German. You know, you're and so they went and told the pastor that we got these two black ladies here, and they say they're Lutherans, and we don't know what to do. So the pastor went out and talked to them. And he came back and he said, Yeah, they are Lutheran. I mean, they know their catechism well, and he told him to come around to the sacristy. Now, don't come in the church come to the sacristy. You stay there. We will, you can hear the sermon will open the door, you hear the sermon, soccer in the soccer Street, will commune you, but you got to leave before church, lets out. Don't come back. We'll come to you. And they sent a vicar down there to start serving those two ladies and out of that group, Holy Cross Lutheran Church. Wow.
22:03  Host Keith Haney
So as we talk about what's happened today, I you know, I kind of get the sense that the Black Lives Matter movement is different from what Dr. King led in the civil rights. Can you kind of talk about what the what are some of the similarities that you see in the movement today, but Dr. King in the civil rights movement? Well, I think some of the oldest similarities I see in the Black Lives Matter movement is that they're trying to address policing, and injustice in America. That's what they're trying to do. But that's where it stopped. I think the civil rights movement was, it was led by leaders in the black community. The Civil Rights Movement was led by
22:46  Rev Roosevelt Gray
key leaders like Dr. Martin Luther King, all of the great black leaders. These were pastors who were embedded in those communities, from infancy, usually their fathers and grandfathers had been buying patents in the black community. And so they had a lot of credibility and a lot of clout in those movements. And so when Dr. King came to Montgomery, Alabama, for that civil rights movement, they've been trying to get that thing off the ground, Dr. Kane Kane gave a lot of credibility to it. From there, the movement had Foundation, the church was very much part of that movement. And so and so the faith based institution, out of that those movements, you know, you got the NAACP, you got, you got the southern leadership, leadership conference, all of that came part of that movement, you had the black educators, the black university people, you had all of the black key leaders in America, who were always fighting for the civil rights of black people. They were part of that whole civil rights movement. But this movement is I say, a loosely fit group of people who are protesting, right, and the civil rights movement had at their foundation, some issues that they were trying to address. So they were trying to address the civil rights of African Americans and other people of color. But I'm not sure I see the Black Lives Matter movement. They're trying to adjust the in justices on the streets of America. But I don't know who the leader of that movement is. I could name you the key leader to that movement. Right. I know, there are some black pastors who like Al Sharpton, Willie Barber, and those people, but usually you don't see them on the streets with that movement. Who was the first person you saw on the streets with the civil rights movement? Dr. Martin Luther King, right. He was the face of it. He was the face of the movement. But today, I see the Black Lives Matter of people. I don't see a face to the movement. I see a group of people gather together.
25:04  Host Keith Haney
Marching, protesting. It's more of a protest movement than it is a civil rights movement. You know, when I opened this up, it was interesting. It talked about the civil rights being about four critical areas. People rally for social for lead, right? political and cultural change. You're right. I don't see a clear message in this movement. And I saw in that moment, Dr. King when there was issues with the police, the garbage workers. So you can see they were trying to address specific wrongs in society. I don't see that as clearly. And as a matter of fact, you mentioned that Al Sharpton. He just kind of a couple days ago, decried the writing is wrong. So even like what a big part of the movement back then are kind of going well, I can't support this. Right. You know, there's a fascinating thing about Black Lives Matter. Now. You notice the civil rights movement, most of their marches was done in the daytime, right? It was done where it you hardly ever saw them on the show.
26:09  Rev Roosevelt Gray
streets at night, because they knew what would happen at night. You know, at that time, basically, the police departments, most of those major cities, I mean, I mean, they had their dog, they had their hoses, they had everything. And so mostly what you saw were do Time marches. To bring attention to it, there was no nighttime. But these marches mostly happens at in the evening and at night. And I think there's some triangulation here with the Black Lives Matter movement. I think they are people who behind the scenes have jumped on board, and probably don't even know most of the Black Lives Matter of people, whoever they may be. But they're there for a different reason. Right? I remember Ferguson, we would go down in the daytime and talk and pray with people. It was the nighttime when all of the violence took place. Right now you notice who on the street at night usually, is young whites. It's, it's, it's anti protesters with their guns, right. And so it's all of these people now, who have all the rights, that these black lives matter, people have time to address the policing. And, and now what people see more than whatever they then they blame the Black Lives Matter people because that's the name everybody is associated with. Right? Who do you see? knocking windows out? And, and, and, and carrying weapons and doing those things? Usually, it's not it's not most of the quote. And I don't know even who the Black Lives Matter people are. It's a slogan, right? Show me tell me the name of a person who is actually says that I am the leader of the Black Lives Matter movement, right, in the face of it right? And will that then be a key religious political leader in the black community? And I think as I remember, my part of watching the civil rights movement,
28:04  Host Keith Haney
there was a desire to work with politicians who could could bring about change, remembered seeing pictures of Dr. King in the White House talk like him, and Johnson right, and getting bills passed that we're going to change things. So I think the thing that I see missing, I'm not sure there is a legislative push to do any change. And you're right, you know, legislation only goes so far. Right? At least.
28:33  Rev Roosevelt Gray
Right? If you if you if you could address qualified immunity, you know, if you could simply address community policing, you could simply address how do you how do you deal with these urban inner city communities, you could probably get further down the road. But what I see often times is basically people on the street, yelling and screaming at each other, or at least coming in ride gear. Now you got you got going back and forth at each other, all of a sudden, now you got an escalation of violence, and then pick buildings and burn down and all of that stuff. I mean, among the civil rights movement, itself, apart from the rioting in the, in the cities, when Dr. King was killing some of the other riots, usually the marches of the Civil Rights Movement never saw in the buildings being burned down. Right.
29:33  Host Keith Haney
Those were peaceful protests. I mean, they didn't go out into the streets to destroy stuff. They just wanted to address the issues. Something you said really struck me and it brought me back to Scripture. When you said all these protests happened at night. Right? What does the Bible say about the darkness?
29:53  Unknown Speaker
I just kind of reminded me of that. That's pitch right, rather? That's wrong. That's right. You know, nothing. At night.
30:01  Rev Roosevelt Gray
I think I think you got to conundrums here, you got the Black Lives Matters excited about the fact that all of these people are gathering in their, in their addressing the issue of policing. And it seems like everybody is against this against, you know, police. And so they're against the police. And they're fighting against each other. But nobody is saying what's, what's the purpose of all of this? I think the Black Lives Matters would be much better served, if they would back away from night protesting and simply protest during the day, asked to speak to key community leaders and put on the table. These are the issues that we are trying to get up and talk to the mayors and the police chiefs and and the Congress in those cities. But you don't see that what you see soon as somebody gets shot and killed, Pam, a bunch of people on the street and after that, it's all chaos. Right? Exactly. So we talked a lot about what we see and how it is different. You and I know we've been probably contact a lot about by pastors and what can I do?
31:09  Host Keith Haney
In my church, what can I tell my congregation? And I've had a few say, I would love to do your Bible study, I'd love to bring you in. But my people don't really want to address it. Because one pass a mic, because my people are afraid, we become targets if we address this issue. So you say to the pastor who wants to talk about this with his people, but it's not sure how to approach it?
31:36  Rev Roosevelt Gray
Well, I think I think the first thing, when I was asked by the Pacific Southwest district, I use the three terms that are now going around being used will Elsner Lewis son, not Scott, but Joe, Joe. And he was pray, listen and act. I think the first thing they ought to do is start praying about the issues and and then writing congregations in those communities. Say we're praying for you, Brother, what can we do to help you to whatever you need to address, we can help you with that. So we need to pray. I think the second thing is to listen. And I think before they do anything on there, and perhaps what they ought to do then, is to call it like you say, call someone like you or myself in, or some other black leaders in it to talk to that congregation specifically. Now I have had some zoom conferences with some circuits. And I've been talking to certain visitors. And this is what I've been telling them, get a prayer, visual, help people to pray about it. And then to listen to what the real issues are, how do we address those issues in the past? How do we address them today? And then, and then to act in that in the in the acting is going to be the most difficult part? Because as you said, most people are fearful that matter of fact, I had a I had an email from a young lady in she was she was out east. And she wanted to put a Black Lives Matter sign on the on the churches law. And so, and I wrote her and I told her No, I wouldn't do that. I see it. Because that draws attention to you. Oh, yeah. Now what what you're going to do, you're going to have divided loyalties, the people who don't like Black Lives Matter are going to be granted, ones who do will support you. But now you can't talk to anybody, because the ones who don't like that, they're never going to say anything to you. And what I said to her is, what I would suggest you do is to get a pre visual together, listen to what the issues are, and then figure out what are the needs in your own community that you can address around this, talk to the police department, talk to the police chief, talk to the mayor, see what you can do to address these things. Now, I think that's what a lot of congregations can go. They can talk to their community leaders First, let's say okay, so just tell us what are the issues then? Right, because I think with the issues not being not clarify the issues, I think we're always gonna have a problem with this today's protesting. Sure.
34:19  Host Keith Haney
So to close this out, I really appreciate this has been a wonderful conversation. Thank you, my brother. Is there anything I haven't asked you that I should have asked you? Well, I think the thing is where you know about our church at large, our districts and our synoptical people, you know, as a church body, are we, we we march for life issues. And sometimes the life issues sitting around two areas of life, that is the life in the womb, and the life in the nursing home, you know, how do we how do we not abort the baby in the womb? And then how do we not? How do we not assist the death in the nursing home. But oftentimes, what we don't see is the life in between the woman, the nursing home, and the life of people live in their day to day existence in the community in which they live. And I think we as a church body needs to address that. We need to talk about what does it mean for us, as Lutheran to believe in the Word of God that all people are indeed created equal? And that we all sinners sinners equally, and that we all need a Savior? And what does that mean? The two things that I'm looking at oftentimes when I speak about this, I'm using
35:42  Rev Roosevelt Gray
the great commandment using the Declaration of Independence. I'm using where and I said those are the two greatest statements that affect my life. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength and love thy neighbor as thyself. And then our Declaration of Independence was we believe these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal, and they are endowed by their Creator. That's a capital C Creator.
36:09  Host Keith Haney
Right now a lot of people say, Well, these man they were deist. And all of that. Well, they may have been I don't know, but they talked about all men are created equal, right endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, that is life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Those are the two statements that I carry in my heart when I'm dealing with these issues in our society today. Wow, thank you. This has been incredible. So I want to kind of highlight some of the takeaways I got from our conversation. I love the advice you got, you always can change how you see the other person. Amen, brother. And I think as we look at this whole racial divide in our country, we have the ability to change how we see the other person, amen. I like the idea that three things we say, what can we do, we can pray, we can and we can act. Amen. And it's easy to focus on life in the tomb and the womb. But what does that life look like in between? How do we as a people, God, carry out our faith in a way that we're impacting the day to day lives of people? Right. And the last one, I thought was really cool, too. The, the two guiding principles are the life the 10 commandments, and the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, I mean, idea that we have been created by a creator. And we have been given certain rights. So how do we, as a people of God come alongside people and protect the rights given to them not by man? And that's the I think the issue right now is that those rights were not given to you by the government? No, they were given to you by your Creator, and how do we protect what the Creator has given us? Amen. Amen. How do we fight for the life of the of Jimmy
37:54  Rev Roosevelt Gray
Janie in the womb? and Jackie, in the nursing home, we fight for their rights. Right, but Johnny on the street, right? Johnny comes messy, man, Johnny comes. I mean, you know, he comes with all kinds of issues going on in his life. I mean, he comes with all kinds of addictions. He comes with all kinds of brokenness. He comes with all kinds of isms. But God loves Johnny to write Johnny on the streets being killed. He wants to Johnny and his kingdom. And so we have to fight for Johnny's right as well as we fight for James right in the world. And Zachary writes in the nursing home, we must fight for Jenny writes on the streets. Wow, thank you, my brother, I was an amazing time of growth we had. And I want to thank you, Dr. Grey, for being on this podcast with me. And for having the courage to share your story. And your brother, and even your vision for what God has in mind for us to become a man. Thank you for that. Thank you for allowing me to come and be with you my brother. Oh, I enjoyed this was good. I pray my listeners will take this and share. Listen, I'm sending people your way. Every time I if I can't go I say get in touch with Keith he will come. I know. schedules get awfully busy because of that.
39:14  Unknown Speaker
There's still a young man so I'm gonna get older. You're a young man. I'm getting older every day you keep sitting.
39:22  Host Keith Haney
So I want to thank you for joining me on this podcast. If you want to go deeper and follow my blog and the same title the light breaks through, you can find a www light and get similar content so right to your email box. In the meantime, because subscribe to this podcast, pick a time to rate it and leave a review. You can find this podcast and all the major platforms iTunes, Spotify, Google podcasts, invite you to share this podcast with your friends on social media. Thanks once again for joining me today on this life transformational journey.