Podland News

The last word in podcasting news... every Thursday in Podland, James Cridland from Podnews in Australia and Sam Sethi, from Sam Talks Technology in the UK, join forces to review and analyse some of the weeks top podcasting news from around the world. They also interview some of the biggest names making the news. This podcast is sponsored by Buzzsprout and Riverside FM.

https://www.podland.news

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episode 2: New podcast:location tag, interview with Sam Liang, CEO of Otter.AI, about live notes. [transcript]


James Cridland and Sam Sethi talk about the new Podcast 2.0 location tag which James has been working on.  They also talk about PodLP providing podcast translations and Audible offering $10k for new podcast ideas.

Then they are joined by Sam Liang, the CEO of Otter.ai who tells us about how Otter Live Notes & Captions can be used on Zoom calls.  He also tells us about Live Translations coming in 2021.   


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 2020-12-11  40m
 
 
00:10  James
Welcome to Portland.
00:12
Portland is sponsored by Buzzsprout
00:12
podcast hosting and a whole lot
00:15
more there at buzzsprout.com.
00:17
It's Thursday, December the 10th, 2020.
00:20
I'm James Cridland, the editor
00:20
of podnews here in Australia.
00:24  Sam
And I'm Sam Sethi, the editor of
00:24
Sam Talks Technology here in the UK.
00:29
I am Sam Liang from Otter.ai, automatic
00:29
meeting assistant for all your meetings
00:37
and l'll be on later to talk about
00:37
Otter live notes for virtual meetings.
00:43  James
He will.
00:44
Portland is a weekly podcast where
00:44
Sam and I delve deeper into the
00:48
week's most important news, which
00:48
I cover daily at podnews.net.
00:53  Sam
So here's, what's coming
00:53
up on this week's podcast.
00:56
James seems lost, or at least he's
00:56
trying to find his location, IAB version
01:00
2.1 guidelines and money from audible.
01:03
Now that sounds good.
01:04
And a lot more now, James,
01:04
you seem lost this week.
01:09
you've been talking about location a lot.
01:12
Tell us more.
01:12
What's this location stuff
01:12
you've been working on?
01:15  James
Yes, podcast index, is,
01:15
doing a bunch of really good work.
01:20
So that's Dave Jones and Adam Curry,
01:20
They're working on an open podcast index.
01:25
but they're also working.
01:27
what they call podcasting 2.0, it's
01:27
lots of new tags, to really help
01:32
podcasting increase and improve.
01:35
And one of those tags, that has
01:35
been talked about for a long
01:37
time is the idea of location.
01:39
to say where a podcast is about, if you're
01:39
doing a podcast about the Eiffel tower,
01:45
wouldn't it be really good if there was
01:45
a programmatic way to search for that?
01:48
So I was, writing the spec for the
01:48
podcast location, tag, earlier on in the
01:55
week, which has been quite interesting.
01:57
It's been a little bit stuck over
01:57
the last six weeks because I think
02:00
it's just been really confusing.
02:02
and there's lots of things that you can
02:02
do with a location tag in podcasting,
02:07
but I think we're pretty well there
02:07
now, which is really good news.
02:10  Sam
When I looked at what
02:10
you were writing, you were
02:12
struggling with what spec to use.
02:14
What did you end up with?
02:15  James
So we've ended up with
02:15
a couple of different things.
02:17
it turns out that location
02:17
is really complicated.
02:20
the first thing is, that
02:20
there's two types of location.
02:23
One type of location is a point on the
02:23
planet earth, which you would normally
02:27
talk about with a latitude and longitude.
02:30
There's a thing called a geo URI,
02:30
which is an RFC, which allows you
02:33
to also say how high it is off the
02:33
ground and various other things.
02:37
But that's a really good way of just
02:37
pointing to a place on planet earth
02:40
and saying this podcast is about that.
02:42
And that's great.
02:43
That means that you can appear on a map.
02:45
But it doesn't necessarily convey
02:45
anything about that particular place.
02:49
So then there's another part of
02:49
that, which is, more details about the
02:53
actual place that you, are linking to.
02:56
and in this particular case, there's
02:56
a bunch of different, people, Google
03:00
has a Google maps, places ID, there's
03:00
geo names.org has a, quite a nice,
03:07
API as well, but there's also open
03:07
street maps, which has a bunch of data.
03:11
And some of that data
03:11
is, an ID for a country.
03:15
So the United States of America
03:15
has a particular way that
03:18
you would talk about that.
03:19
And that is unambiguously
03:19
the United States of America.
03:22
But then you can then go down
03:22
to the state of Washington.
03:26
You can then go down
03:26
to, the city of Seattle.
03:29
You can look at the space needle.
03:31
If you want.
03:32
You can even look at a walkway
03:32
next to the space needle.
03:36
That's how detailed it can actually get.
03:38
And it's got all of the
03:38
data around that as well.
03:40
So you could end up, at a position in
03:40
the future when lots of people are using
03:45
the podcast location tag of being able
03:45
to say, I would like to listen to all
03:50
podcasts about train stations in Germany.
03:54
and it would be able to find
03:54
that information, out of that.
03:58
really rich what you can do with it.
04:01
but it's also been really interesting,
04:01
just, working out the use cases,
04:05
working out what you can actually
04:05
link to and what people actually
04:09
want out of a location tag.
04:11
And there's the other side, of course,
04:11
which is, quite a lot of people want
04:14
to talk about where a podcast is from.
04:17
is that a podcast location tag?
04:19
certainly we started off by wanting
04:19
to include that in the location tag
04:24
as well, but I think we realized
04:24
relatively early on that, location
04:29
of where a podcast is from.
04:31
Isn't actually a location of a podcast.
04:33
It's a location of the
04:33
people in the podcast.
04:35
this might have a location, of the
04:35
South of England and of Queensland.
04:40
and that's fine, actually.
04:42
Yes, that would confuse
04:42
people an awful lot.
04:44
But actually that's fine.
04:45
but what, that's not really talking
04:45
about the podcast, it's just talking
04:48
about where you're sitting right
04:48
now, where I'm sitting right now.
04:51
really the location goes with the people,
04:51
and there is a separate tab called podcast
04:56
people, which has also being worked
04:56
on, which actually links already to all
05:00
of that location information as well.
05:03
that's where that is going, which
05:03
makes the podcast location tag much
05:07
easier because it's just a location
05:07
tag talking about what the podcast.
05:10
Is about, and that's a great step forward.
05:13
I
05:13  Sam
wonder if we can sneak an
05:13
Easter egg in where we put location
05:16
podland, and we just decide
05:16
where on planet earth podland is
05:20  James
that's even in the spec as well.
05:21
So if you are doing a podcast that
05:21
is about Hogwarts, for example, then
05:27
yes, you can say it's about Hogwarts.
05:30
What you can't do is you
05:30
can't add a G O U R I a.
05:34
You can't make up a lat
05:34
long cause then it's wrong.
05:37
and you can't link to an open street map
05:37
ID because obviously there isn't one.
05:40
but you can still actually say, yes,
05:40
it's about Hogwarts and that again all
05:44
joking aside that's really helpful for
05:44
fiction podcasts There are lots of those
05:48
about it's been a really interesting
05:48
thing being on the podcast index Github
05:55
talking about that particular spec trying
05:55
to get everything as clear as possible
06:00
and it's being quite fun and rewarding
06:00
to work on Let's see if anybody actually
06:04
uses it which will be the next step The
06:07  Sam
interesting thing is phase one of
06:07
the namespace change closed on the 15th
06:13
of November And That included podcasts
06:13
locking transcriptions funding chapters
06:20
and soundbites And I'm glad to say
06:20
our sponsor Buzzsprout has implemented
06:23
all of phase while along with fireside
06:23
and out If you want to find out which
06:28
companies or hosts implemented phase one
06:28
already You can go to podcast index.org
06:35
forward slash apps and it will give you
06:35
a complete listing of everyone Who's
06:38
actually supported phase one and phase
06:38
two will be closing on the 31st of January
06:43
and location is part of that So if you
06:43
feel like you want to Participate in any
06:48
of this Where can they go again James
06:50  James
podcastindex.org the closing date
06:50
for submissions for the next round of
06:56
tags is the end of January things being
06:56
looked at are things like the people tag
07:02
that I was talking about the location
07:02
tag a way of being able to name seasons
07:06
which is important particularly if you're
07:06
a fiction podcast Things around social
07:11
media links I'm hoping also to get the
07:11
ID tag through and the ID tag is very
07:16
dull and very tedious but it's just a
07:16
way of being able to say this podcast is
07:20
available here on Apple podcasts here on
07:20
Spotify here on Amazon music and so on
07:27
and so forth So that would be a really
07:27
useful one And hopefully we can get that
07:31
pushed into phase two as well Brilliant
07:34  Sam
And just to preempt next week
07:34
show we will be having Adam and Dave
07:39
from podcast index as our guests we
07:41  James
will and they were listening
07:41
to last week which was very exciting
07:44
At least Dave was so it should be fun
07:44
to have him on He's probably sitting
07:48
there with his head in his hands going
07:48
what are they talking about That's not
07:52
exactly what's going on at all but he can
07:56  Sam
correct us next week
07:58  James
He can as well And one of the
07:58
things that Adam and Dave feel very
08:02
strongly around is monetization value
08:02
for value as they call it of a way of
08:07
earning revenue from your podcasts And
08:07
there's a bunch of specs there which
08:11
I don't fully understand So it'd be
08:11
good to talk to them about that too
08:15  Sam
Now Mehta nom has Sam
08:15
Hep land Do you get that Jamie
08:20  James
Nice I was
08:20
impressed at your Punjabi
08:23  Sam
My parents wouldn't be let me put
08:23
it that way for that station was way off
08:28
but that said you had a story this week
08:28
about a company called pod LP Tell me more
08:35  James
So pod LP is a podcast which isn't
08:35
a iOS podcast app Doesn't run an iPhone
08:41
nor does it run on Android phones It
08:41
runs on a different type of phone called
08:46
Chi OS and Chi OS Particularly of use
08:46
in developing countries places yes like
08:53
India but in other places as well and
08:53
what Pod LP has done is they've partnered
08:57
with another company called rephonic and
08:57
they are linking to top podcasts in those
09:03
people's local languages In the app So
09:03
if you speak yes English and Spanish and
09:09
French of course but also if you speak
09:09
behalf or you speak Afrikaans or you speak
09:14
Turkish or Vietnamese you'll find the
09:14
most popular podcasts in those particular
09:20
languages as well in there which is a
09:20
really important thing I think if it's the
09:24
first time you've ever seen a podcast app
09:24
The last thing that you arguably want is
09:29
to see Joe Rogan not these available as
09:29
a podcast anymore or to see the New York
09:34
times daily if the only language you speak
09:34
is Swahili so this is a great step forward
09:39  Sam
Two great shows on Netflix that
09:39
I've watched recently One is the bridge
09:45
which was in Swedish with subtitles
09:45
and Corpus Christi which was a Polish
09:50
film which is amazing by the way if you
09:50
haven't seen it highly recommend it Now
09:55
I wouldn't be able to watch out of those
09:55
because of the language barrier but
09:58
because of translation and captioning I
09:58
could Again when I look at the fact that
10:03
the world's biggest country in terms
10:03
of podcasting in terms of adoption and
10:08
usage is Korea I wonder how many great
10:08
podcasts that come out of there that
10:13
we just bypass because literally it's
10:13
not designed for us but actually the
10:17
content within it would be very useful
10:19  James
it is interesting seeing what's
10:19
going on in different countries Korea the
10:24
the podcast charts appear to be full of
10:24
reheated radio shows which is great and
10:29
fine And that's certainly a valid use
10:29
of podcasting But when you look at some
10:35
of the stuff that Wondery has been doing
10:35
for example I think they've translated Dr
10:40
Death now into eight different languages
10:40
and that is a fascinating opportunity
10:46
to take IP that Wondery own to take some
10:46
great sound production and everything
10:50
else And to remake that into a different
10:50
language that makes a bunch of sense
10:56
There's also a number of other people
10:56
who are either translating podcasts or
11:02
taking the same messages from a podcast
11:02
and putting that into a different
11:07
language I think we have to be Careful
11:07
with culture he says a British person
11:12
We were the worst people for that in
11:12
history but anyway that's an important
11:16
thing when it comes to translating shows
11:16
into a different language So it's really
11:21
interesting to see what's going on there
11:24  Sam
I won't labor the point but one
11:24
of the things that I guess the internet
11:28
has been for me personally batter is
11:28
actually leveling out culture Because
11:34
if you look at music you can go anywhere
11:34
around the world and you look at the
11:37
charts and it's actually very similar
11:37
whether it's English speaking or not
11:42
And I wonder whether we will lose some
11:42
of the value of localized podcasting
11:48
If we a morphism through language
11:51  James
I think we need to be careful in
11:51
terms of culture weirdly the the music
11:55
industry as I understand it is actually
11:55
getting more localized now and part of
11:59
the reason for that is the availability
11:59
of streaming services like geo sovereign
12:05
and Ghana in India or their equivalents
12:05
in many other countries so maybe actually
12:11
it's breathing a little bit more life into
12:11
individual music from individual Countries
12:17
a couple of months ago I was talking with
12:17
a radio station that was based in Lagos
12:21
in Nigeria and I spent some time listening
12:21
to it I didn't recognize any of the music
12:27
and that's not just because I'm old and
12:27
I touch although that's probably got
12:31
some something to do with that It's also
12:31
because it was all local stuff the SAPC
12:36
in South Africa they have rules around
12:36
only playing South African music on their
12:41
stations I think there's some interesting
12:41
things going on there podcasting if you
12:46
look at English language podcasting here
12:46
in Australia the most listened to show
12:52
is a true crime show that has a lot of
12:52
American input into it there's a stuff
12:57
you should know that's also up there as
12:57
well So I think there's a fair amount
13:02
of American content both here and in the
13:02
UK but I think that's just the language
13:07
And I think as soon as you skip out of
13:07
that and you look into what the number
13:11
one podcasts are in France in Germany
13:11
and in Spain they're very different
13:16  Sam
when we looked at the Apple charts
13:16
and Spotify charts from last week
13:19
podcasting is still very localized it was
13:19
just the way I saw the Spotify music list
13:24
the same old names are all over the place
13:24
Dre Kariana Grandy the interesting one Of
13:29
course you listened to them regularly is
13:29
the number one band in the world According
13:33
Spotify was bad bunny from Puerto Rico
13:33
obviously it's top of your list there
13:39  James
So
13:40  Sam
Puerto Rico up there
13:42  James
I if they're on YouTube music
13:44  Sam
but hopefully the location tag will
13:44
be Useful if it's adopted certainly in
13:49
localizing podcasts into local languages
13:51  James
certainly if you want to find out
13:51
more about places then I think the podcast
13:55
location tag is going to be really helpful
13:58  Sam
Now James have you got an idea
13:58
for a podcast I know that you're
14:01
so busy doing other podcasts but
14:01
have you got an idea for a podcast
14:06  James
maybe
14:07  Sam
like $10,000
14:09  James
I would love $10,000 This is
14:09
the audible podcast development program
14:13
you could win $10,000 to develop your
14:13
ideas one of the things I don't fully
14:18
understand around Amazon who course owns
14:18
audible is that they've got podcasts
14:23
into Amazon music now in a number of
14:23
countries which is great and you should
14:27
be there but also they have a lot of
14:27
their own original content in audible
14:32
as well And some of those are podcasts
14:32
so I'm a bit confused by that but in
14:37
any case they want more great original
14:37
content So they've Put up 10 grants to
14:43
develop your idea further it's open to
14:43
every country in the world I went to have
14:48
a look at the terms conditions that's
14:48
a lot of money and you've until January
14:52
the 18th If you've got an idea you should
14:52
go to the audible podcast development
14:57
program website and get it into them
15:00  Sam
Excellent I will be over Christmas
15:00
coming up with another idea Sadly I
15:04
don't think I'll be getting the $10,000
15:04
now good news or bad news I don't
15:09
know Do you listen to Howard stern
15:11  James
I have never listened to Howard
15:11
stern I'm told he's very good Sometimes
15:15
I was never listened to how it's done
15:17  Sam
I haven't because he went over
15:17
to Sirius but I guess with all of
15:21
the Podcasts that are being acquired
15:21
by Spotify I did wonder where the
15:25
Howard stern would jump ship but
15:25
it looks like he's staying put
15:29
with Sirius for another five years
15:31  James
I think the story was that he
15:31
was at least I talked to by Spotify and
15:37
Spotify were very keen to get Howard stern
15:37
involved Howard stern who's a very famous
15:43
American shock jock He owns quite a lot
15:43
of shares in Sirius XM and probably wanted
15:48
to keep those being as full of value as
15:48
he possibly could but he he signed for a
15:53
further five years with the company which
15:53
is a satellite radio company in the U S
15:58
Sirius XM also they retain rights to his
15:58
archives for a further seven years so
16:04
they can do other things with that what
16:04
I found in No Where in any of the press
16:11
releases which is weird because Sirius
16:11
XM also owns things like Midroll Stitcher
16:18
Simple Cast as well Great companies that
16:18
are good at podcasting So I don't Quite
16:25
understand what the deal is there in terms
16:25
of why they wouldn't want to make how
16:30
it's done into a podcast asset for them as
16:30
well perhaps they do And perhaps they're
16:34
just not saying anything about that yet It
16:37  Sam
makes sense in all the other
16:37
acquisitions they've made recently
16:40
Now moving on one of the other stories
16:40
that caught my eye in a podnews.net
16:44
this week was the daily Kevin LABAs is
16:44
saying that it makes $42 million a year
16:51
Now that seems a lot of money to me how
16:51
do they make that money James And how
16:56
do we make that money More importantly
16:59  James
Yes let's not go that far $42
16:59
billion a year Sounds like an awful lot of
17:04
money And it probably is Kevin Lubars must
17:04
be his real name he looked at a bunch of
17:10
public information about what the New York
17:10
times was saying and went for the number
17:15
in the middle so there's a number which
17:15
I believe is somewhere around 12 million
17:18
There's a number which is significantly
17:18
more $42 million a year is similar to
17:22
the annual revenue of Wondery which I
17:22
can believe So maybe the New York times
17:28
daily is big but it does have a bunch of
17:28
other shows there as well So maybe it's
17:34
making that amount of money I don't know
17:34
it is predominantly around advertising of
17:39
course although the podcast does clearly
17:39
get more subscribers to the newspaper
17:44
as well So we should probably not forget
17:44
about that bit The New York times has also
17:49
said that they're not having a very good
17:49
quarter for of it their online advertising
17:54
is likely to be down 5% and that includes
17:54
the podcasting stuff as well Overall ad
17:59
revenue though is down by 20% in quarter
17:59
four which I find strange because quarter
18:05
four includes November which the there
18:05
was a big election in the U S in November
18:12
Why would people not be advertising around
18:12
that maybe the New York times doesn't
18:16
get very much political advertising
18:18  Sam
The fact that you've just talked
18:18
about the New York times issuing awarding
18:21
on digital advertising goes contrary
18:21
to the other story that you published
18:25
which was podcasting is becoming a
18:25
more effective place to advertise
18:29
which was a report from iHeartRadio
18:33  James
It was a inside a website called
18:33
inside radio which is owned by iHeart
18:37
radio And I only keep on mentioning the
18:37
fact that it's owned by iHeart radio
18:41
because they don't you won't find that
18:41
fact anywhere if you run a radio news
18:46
website and you're actually the main
18:46
radio broadcaster in the U S you should
18:52
probably make that fact a little bit more
18:52
obvious but anyway yes they covered a
18:58
survey of local advertisers by a company
18:58
that begins with a B and they said they
19:03
quoted some of this saying that it is now
19:03
felt by local advertisers that podcasting
19:09
is more effective Than it's been in the
19:09
past and it's already beaten things like
19:14
newspapers radio and TV advertising as
19:14
well so that's essentially up to what a
19:20
local advertiser thinks but it's still
19:20
useful information in terms of actually
19:24
seeing that local advertisers more
19:24
interested in spending their money In
19:29
terms of advertising again the podcast
19:29
location tag might help them there
19:34
seeing that kind of information is always
19:34
useful it's always good to see a bunch
19:38
of different surveys which you actually
19:38
understand what advertisers think because
19:45
if advertisers like what you're doing
19:45
then that typically means that more money
19:49
will come into this space at some point
19:52  Sam
Another related story that I was
19:52
reading in pod news this week was you
19:56
talked about the fact that 56% of heavy
19:56
podcast listeners think that the number
20:02
of ads in podcasts is increasing and
20:02
38% believe it's too many So again we've
20:08
got this real struggle going on between
20:08
people wanting to make money the daily
20:14
wandery ourselves everyone else who
20:14
are creating the content and listeners
20:19
who really don't want more and more
20:19
ads being thrown at them So what's the
20:24
balance Where's the perfect sweet spot
20:27  James
it is interesting obviously people
20:27
the more ads that you sling into a podcast
20:32
the more money you can make but there
20:32
is a balancing act there in between the
20:37
amount of ads That you can put into a
20:37
podcast before people get really annoyed
20:42
And I think again it's a cultural thing
20:42
I grew up in the UK I grew up with the
20:46
BBC Mostly the BBC carries no advertising
20:46
whatsoever And if you have grown up with
20:52
media that carries no advertising At all
20:52
then one 32nd dad is Oh my goodness what's
20:59
this so there's a big difference there I
20:59
think in comparison to the U S where the
21:05
amount of advertising that you have in
21:05
TV shows in radio broadcasting is really
21:11
high I remember going out in about 2005 I
21:11
did a really interesting trip to the U S
21:19
I was visiting lots of different companies
21:19
including serious the satellite radio
21:24
company at the time a bunch of other radio
21:24
broadcasters as well as people like the
21:29
RIA and others And we had the Rab who's
21:29
the radio advertising Bureau there and the
21:34
Rab where I'm very excited about the fact
21:34
that they had a radio station somewhere
21:40
in the South which was broadcasting 48
21:40
minutes of ads an hour And they said that
21:46
this was a brilliant thing And I not to
21:46
mention 48 minutes of ads an hour what
21:52
would you put in the other 12 minutes
21:52
exactly but I think there's again big
21:58
cultural Differences and you'll know I
21:58
remember when we started getting satellite
22:03
TV in the UK and you had some American
22:03
companies coming over and they used to
22:07
put the ads after the intros of the shows
22:07
which is how it works in the U S it's
22:13
not how it works in the UK And so you're
22:13
sitting there you watch the little theme
22:17
tune and then it breaks for an advert
22:17
and everybody who's going what's going on
22:20
here So there's this whole sort of culture
22:20
thing which I think is really interesting
22:25  Sam
I think you'll be good to see in 2021
22:25
whether we will get a Balance between how
22:32
we podcasts make money I think that is
22:32
the biggest challenge And I think your
22:35
next week showed I don't mean to forward
22:35
sell but I am the fact that Adam and Dave
22:40
will be talking about how they're putting
22:40
in a monetization capability into the
22:44
namespace because unless monitorization
22:44
does happen with podcasting and it
22:49
becomes Democratize down the long tail
22:49
Then I think a lot of the small players
22:54
in podcasting will disappear and we will
22:54
end up with walled gardens sadly which is
22:58
not what we want with Amazon and Spotify
22:58
just Sucking up all the big podcasts
23:04  James
I think that's important And I
23:04
think it's important to make sure that
23:10
it's not just advertising as well It's
23:10
all kinds of other things the thing that's
23:14
annoyed me most this week in terms of
23:14
the news coverage of podcasting is people
23:18
saying that very soon podcasting will be
23:18
a $1 billion industry when actually if
23:24
you were only to look outside of the U S
23:24
it's already a $1.4 billion industry and
23:29
that's advertising only So Patrion selling
23:29
gigs selling merch people supporting you
23:36
in other ways is considerably more than
23:36
that as well So this is not just a billion
23:41
dollar industry It's significantly larger
23:41
and that's a good thing And the other
23:45
thing on that is actually making sure that
23:45
we're measuring the right thing making
23:49
sure that we're measuring yes downloads
23:49
but also other things as well So the
23:53
IB brought out a new podcast guidelines
23:53
this week version 2.1 of their podcast
23:58
measurement guidelines which has very very
23:58
little similar to the current version 2.0
24:04
that we've got but it has tightened up a
24:04
few things I've already got my reaction
24:09
to that into the IAB cause I think there
24:09
are a few things that they could say that
24:13
would make life a little bit easier but
24:13
it's fascinating seeing the IIB working
24:18
on measurement and making sure that all
24:18
of that is further tightened up as well
24:25  Sam
Great make sure you go on pod
24:25
news.net find the link and input your
24:30
opinion Otherwise it will be Posted
24:30
and hosted on you now over to you James
24:36  James
Yes One of the things we wanted
24:36
to do in pod land is to spend a little
24:39
time talking to those making the news
24:39
in podcasting a little time obviously
24:44
not a three hour long interview because
24:44
both Sam and I have a full head of
24:49
hair Now this week Sam talked with
24:49
Sam yang from Otter AI alter AI is a
24:55
live transcription service in the U S
24:58  Sethi
Sam Hello how are you Hi
24:59  Liang
Sam Very good How are you
25:01  Sethi
Good to see you again My friend
25:01
now alter AI It's a brilliant product
25:05
but for those who don't know it please
25:05
can you just give us a brief background
25:08
of what altar AI is and what it does
25:10  Liang
Of course honor is a automatic
25:10
and meeting note service speech
25:16
recognition system was artificial
25:16
intelligence It doesn't require
25:20
any human menu transcription
25:24  Sethi
I've been using ultra AI with
25:24
the tight zoom integration that you have
25:28  Liang
What
25:28  Sethi
sort of examples or use cases would
25:28
you say people are using author AI for
25:34  Liang
The biggest use case these days
25:34
are using Otter for wear to meetings with
25:40
COVID-19 obviously most people are working
25:40
from home and also a lot of companies
25:46
have distributed workforce they work in
25:46
different time zones So they use zoom
25:51
or other words to meeting system to have
25:51
meetings either internal meetings or
25:57
external meetings with tremendous number
25:57
of meetings It's really hard to track
26:02
information hard to remember things now
26:02
the people using Otter to take meeting
26:07
notes and it's also a collaborative
26:07
meeting notes because the meeting notes is
26:12
automatically generated during the meeting
26:12
available to all the meeting attendees
26:19
everybody can see the meeting notes live
26:19
even if they're completely distributed
26:24
not only they can save in those life
26:24
it can scroll back They can search for
26:29
any keywords people can insert pictures
26:29
screenshots or slide into the author
26:36
note as well Also when you hear important
26:36
information important numbers you don't
26:41
want to forget you can easily highlight
26:41
the information which helps you find the
26:47
information later really fast in addition
26:47
a lot of universities are using Otter for
26:53
online education because a lot of classes
26:53
are online over zoom or Microsoft team
26:59
or Google meet people in universities
26:59
are using Otter to take automatic lecture
27:06
notes as well It's also makes asynchronous
27:06
learning better for students who Are
27:11
located in different times zones They
27:11
missed a live class but one day the
27:16
cat the class recorded previously they
27:16
don't have to Goes through the classic
27:23
quench or some students wanting to do it
27:23
faster so they can actually search for
27:28
keywords read the transcript and decide
27:28
which part of the BDO they want to watch
27:35
So it's possible to actually finish a
27:35
class faster than the actual class time
27:41  Sethi
Exactly my daughter had
27:41
Nottingham university already
27:44
uses auto exactly for that
27:47  Liang
Oh that's great We have hundreds
27:47
of universities using hotter now it's
27:52
growing even faster every month Now
27:55  Sethi
since we last spoke about a year
27:55
ago how has the trend scription has
28:01
that become much more accurate over
28:01
time or will we see it become even more
28:06
accurate I'm looking at it now obviously
28:06
with my life nodes coming down here and
28:11
it's very accurate But can you get it
28:11
better or are we at peak performance
28:16  Liang
absolutely Since we talked last
28:16
year the accuracy has been actually
28:21
improved significantly get those noise
28:21
better even if your zoom call has pretty
28:29
strong background noise Otter is able
28:29
to transcribe it PR accurately another
28:36
important enhancement we're handling more
28:36
accents even better this is partially
28:42
due to our very sophisticated training
28:42
system In addition the users because the
28:49
number of users is growing so fast from
28:49
users all over the world they actually
28:55
have different accents people from UK
28:55
has different access than people in the
29:00
us even within the us different people
29:00
in Texas kind of London New York have
29:07
different accents Otter is able to use
29:07
the information to Automatically improve
29:15
its own accuracy and other important
29:15
enhancement is that we have even better
29:23
custom what capillary function customer
29:23
covering means that or users can actually
29:30
insert new words into otters Dictionary
29:30
for their own meetings So this is very
29:37
useful for a lot of companies and have
29:37
many special terminologies special
29:44
acronyms and also not uncommon names or
29:44
other names or standard English names that
29:52
are available in the English dictionary
29:52
Our users actually can inject those names
30:00
and words into Arthur upfront so that
30:00
those words can be accurately recognized
30:07  Sethi
now two new features obviously
30:07
live notes which I'm using here with also
30:13
and it's instantly transcribing those
30:13
notes in front of me As you described
30:18
earlier one of the other features is
30:18
life captions So can you tell us more
30:23
about that function that you've added
30:25  Liang
I like Caption is part of the live
30:25
notes the only difference is that the live
30:30
caption is displayed in the zoom video
30:30
screen at the bottom and the light there
30:38
one line or two lines of live captioned
30:38
But we found that people actually like
30:44
to open a bigger window so that they can
30:44
see the full live notes on that larger
30:51
screen or even a larger window so that
30:51
they can see not only just two lines
30:58
of texts they can easily scroll back
30:58
and see more inflammation And again the
31:05
search ability is really useful The fact
31:05
that you can see more in a previous text
31:12
allows people to actually comprehend the
31:12
meeting even better for certain meetings
31:19
that are complicated where for example
31:19
a lot of different numbers are discussed
31:25
it's really hard for people to remember
31:25
more than three numbers at a time So when
31:31
you see all the numbers transcribed and
31:31
displayed in front of you it actually
31:37
helped people understand the information
31:37
and improved their productivity there
31:43  Sethi
Now one of the features that
31:43
I would love to have given your
31:48
heritage is from China And my heritage
31:48
is from India is live translation
31:52
Is this something that author are
31:52
considering or may do in the future
31:56  Liang
absolutely will you actually
31:56
Are partnering with NTT DoCoMo in
32:01
Japan and if you do commonly largest
32:01
telecom company in Japan they see that
32:07
are have a great market in Japan they
32:07
really want to use Otter in Japan for
32:15
their corporate meetings a lot of their
32:15
meetings are international but they really
32:22
want to have the Japanese translation
32:22
So we actually work with the Oklahoma
32:28
We created a prototype I actually we
32:28
demonstrated early this year in Tokyo
32:34
and it was before COVID happened I went
32:34
to Tokyo and in DoCoMo's open house
32:42
conference we actually demonstrated that
32:42
it's possible to run outer life notes
32:49
And to show the Japanese translation
32:49
in real time So definitely our real map
32:55
that we cannot give an exact timeline
32:55
when we can release it yet but that's
33:01  Sethi
going to be very powerful when
33:01
you can start to have multi-lingual
33:05
conversations and see that happening
33:05
in real time It really is the
33:09
Bible fish in it Come to life
33:12  Liang
absolutely The word even smaller
33:15  Sethi
Now you talk about search within
33:15
live notes which is great Is there
33:20
any way that I can aggregate all of my
33:20
corporate notes or my personal notes
33:25
into one repository and search across
33:25
all of my live notes So say I've got
33:32
five or six lectures or five or six
33:32
meetings And I just want to find anything
33:37
that I referenced a certain keyword
33:37
Is there a way that Alta provides me
33:41
an aggregated live notes Repository
33:45  Liang
absolutely And that function is
33:45
actually already available in order if
33:51
you look at your own art can't there
33:51
should be a search bar on the top and
33:59
in your honor app when you search for
33:59
keywords is actually search across all
34:06
your previous author notes honor also
34:06
provide a way for you to organize your
34:13
notes in a better way especially when
34:13
you are working together with many other
34:20
people in your team for example in our
34:20
team we have I product team we have an
34:27
engineering team marketing team and sales
34:27
team each team have their own recurring
34:33
weekly meetings and sometimes hoc on
34:33
demand meetings So autumn team meeting in
34:41
each team are automatically shared with
34:41
the Otter group Corresponding to their
34:49
team membership so that everybody in their
34:49
team whether they attend the meeting live
34:55
or not they all get access to the alter
34:55
notes So that's why we say Otter actually
35:02
helps people improve their collaboration
35:02
communication because the information is
35:08
easily shared then within each group or
35:08
across The entire repository people can
35:16
search for any inflammation as long as
35:16
they have the permission There's a way to
35:25
specify the permission access like each
35:25
alternate user in the team So the team
35:33
product is actually even more powerful so
35:33
that people can use that in a similar way
35:40
as Slack although Slack folks text-based
35:40
and messaging but Otter focused on all the
35:48
voice content but the concept is actually
35:48
quite similar between hotter and Slack
35:55  Sethi
last question then Sam what's on
35:55
the roadmap beyond this you seem to have
35:59
got everything covered You've got improved
35:59
transcription You've got captions you've
36:05
got load notes You've got enterprise
36:05
search ability What's next Or what's on
36:12
your horizon Do you think Coming in 2021
36:15  Liang
lots of things on our roadmap We're
36:15
going to do even more smooth integration
36:22
with additional features working with
36:22
zoom and also more integration with
36:27
other words meeting systems like Google
36:27
meet Microsoft teams WebEx so that the
36:34
experience can be even more automated
36:34
and even more pain-free secondly even
36:40
better collaboration system for team
36:40
members allow people to Add annotations
36:48
even better today You can already add a
36:48
notation into order that we're playing
36:53
to make that even better the other things
36:53
include analytics of the meeting content
37:02
so that people can find numbers find other
37:02
important information even easier certain
37:09
concepts certain keywords were important
37:09
sentences late in the future It can be
37:15
automatically highlighted or identified
37:15
so that improve people's productivity
37:23
even better other integration we're
37:23
going to work on as I mentioned Slack
37:29
and other productivity tools like a sauna
37:29
at last thing or going to do some more
37:37
integration with those tools as well So
37:37
that auditor we see will be a Trinsic part
37:44
of people's workflow and this is going
37:44
to be the future of work That's brilliant
37:50  Sethi
Now last one thing that I know
37:50
that you provide within the auto notices
37:56
a metadata tagging system at the top So
37:56
like a summary of the information is this
38:04
going to happen with live notes Can I take
38:04
this meeting that we're doing here on zoom
38:09
Can I at the end of this meeting have a
38:09
summary in effect by it by also looking
38:16
at the key words within the live notes
38:16
and then highlighting those at the top
38:21  Liang
Oh absolutely These summary
38:21
keywords will be generated pretty fast
38:26
Once the meeting is finished it will
38:26
show up for your life notes as well
38:33  Sethi
Brilliant Sam Liang Thank you
38:33
so much for your time Everybody should
38:37
be using oughta Certainly if there is
38:37
a zoom user and looks like if you're
38:41
going to be any other type of user
38:41
of any conferencing software as well
38:45
in the future Sam take care speeches
38:48  Liang
Thank you Great speaking with you
38:51  James
Sam yang from auto AI with some
38:51
really helpful things particularly
38:55
if you use zoom which is good
38:55
Sam Stephie what's coming up in
38:59
pod land for you later this month
39:02  Sam
I'm going to be interviewing a
39:02
Boucher and setting no relation to
39:06
me at all he reached out to me over
39:06
LinkedIn He's creating the world's
39:10
linking of the Sethi clan by all
39:10
accounts And I happened to be one of
39:14
them but he's the global leader of
39:14
people in organization PWC in New York
39:20
And we're going to be talking about the
39:20
future of work and how you get there
39:24  James
Which is good and I will
39:24
be sitting and writing I've got
39:27
an awful lot of writing papers for
39:27
individual companies None of whom I
39:32
can talk about but I've been learning
39:35  Sam
always helpful on the podcast
39:36  James
It's always helpful on a podcast
39:36
but I've been learning an awful lot
39:39
about how the New Zealand media industry
39:39
works ask me anything about that except
39:43
don't obviously because I'm doing that
39:43
for a client so that's all good And I
39:48
think that's it for this week If you've
39:48
enjoyed your trip to pod lands don't
39:52
make it your last you can subscribe on
39:52
all the major podcast players or you
39:56
can visit our website@podland.news I
40:01  Sam
do can rate and review us on
40:01
Apple podcasts but much more helpful
40:05
is if you tell your friends about
40:05
us and share us on the socials
40:09  James
Now if you want daily news you
40:09
should get pod news It's free@podnews.net
40:13
It's very good too Or you can ask your
40:13
smart speaker to play the news from pod
40:17
news podcasting news And it'll either
40:17
do that for you or it'll give you some
40:22
sort of spirits error message A pod
40:22
news is also where you'll find the links
40:26
for All the things that we've mentioned
40:26
this week, music is from ignite jingles.
40:30
Sam used zoom plus Autor live
40:30
notes to interview Samuel Yang.
40:34
pod land was edited by Sam Sethi
40:34
and descript, and we're hosted
40:39
and sponsored by Buzzsprout.
40:41
And we'll see you in pod land next week.
40:44
Keep listening.