Podland News

The last word in podcasting news... every Thursday in Podland, James Cridland from Podnews in Australia and Sam Sethi, from Sam Talks Technology in the UK, join forces to review and analyse some of the weeks top podcasting news from around the world. They also interview some of the biggest names making the news. This podcast is sponsored by Buzzsprout and Riverside FM.

https://www.podland.news

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episode 3: Podcast Misinformation, Podcast Taxonomy, Interview with Kate Bradley Chernis, CEO Lately.AI about atomizing your podcast into hundreds of mini-movie trailers. [transcript]


James Cridland and Sam Sethi talk about the report in the Guardian by the journalist Ariel Bogle. She's also an analyst at the Australian strategic policy Institute and she researches online disinformation. She was questioning whether podcasts are becoming. The new dangerous content space and should be regulated or fined like social networks.

James spoke with Galen Beebe, Bello Collective's co-editor who has just published its 100 outstanding podcasts from 2020, their fifth annual list. 

James also interviewed Kate Bradley Chernis, CEO of Lately. AI about how her company combines Natural Language Processing with AI to atomize your podcast into hundreds of mini-movie trailers. So you can broadcast them out into the world.

Sam interviewed several members of  The Podcast Taxonomy Consortium who recently posted its first white paper, proposing a standard for job descriptions in podcasting. The product of five months of work, it enables all of us to know the difference between a Technical Director and an Audio Engineer.  


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 2020-12-18  45m
 
 
00:04  James
Welcome to Podland.
00:05
Podland is sponsored by Buzzsprout,
00:05
the premier podcasting host, and a
00:09
whole lot more there on buzzsprout.com.
00:11
It's Thursday, December 17th, 2020.
00:14
I'm James Cridland the editor
00:14
of podnews here in Australia.
00:18  Sam
And I'm Sam Sethi.
00:19
the editor of Sam Talks
00:19
Technology, here in the UK.
00:22
And I'm Galen Beebe from
00:22
the Bella Collective.
00:25
And later I'll talk about the 100
00:25
outstanding podcasts from 2020.
00:29
Kate Bradley Chernis from Lately.ai.
00:31
And later I'll be talking about automatic
00:31
social marketing for your podcast.
00:34  James
Podland is a weekly podcast
00:34
where Sam and I delve deeper into
00:38
the week's most important news,
00:38
which I cover daily at podnews.net.
00:42
Let's start by saying, sorry, because on
00:42
the podcasting 2.0 podcast, Adam Curry
00:48
heard last week's episode, where we were
00:48
talking about the new podcast namespace.
00:53  Adam
I'm a little bit irked
00:53
James Cridland @podnews.net.
00:57
He has a podcast called
00:57
the pod news podcast.
01:00
Is that what that,
01:01  Dave
but there's that?
01:02
And then he's got a
01:02
new one called Podland.
01:05  Adam
I don't know when I was listening
01:05
to maybe it was Podland and all of a
01:08
sudden he's like stealing our material.
01:11
He's doing hot namespace talk.
01:14
Excuse me.
01:16
Yes.
01:16
That's not.
01:17
Okay.
01:17
It's like a horning in
01:17
on our business, Dave.
01:20  James
So maybe we should
01:20
leave the boom Chicka.
01:22
Wow.
01:22
Wow.
01:23
Namespace, talk to Adam and Dave.
01:26
Anyway, there'll be on next
01:26
week to tell me off in-person.
01:29  Sam
Excellent.
01:30
I look forward to that now.
01:32
The big story this week I felt
01:32
was about podcast misinformation.
01:37
There was a great report out in the
01:37
guardian, by the journalist Ariel Bogle.
01:43
She's a journalist and analyst at the
01:43
Australian strategic policy Institute
01:46
and she researches online disinformation.
01:49
She was questioning whether
01:49
podcasts are becoming.
01:53
The new dangerous content space,
01:53
social networks this week seem to be
01:57
in the crossfire of every government.
02:00
Twitter was fined in Ireland.
02:02
Facebook's been asked to label
02:02
things because of misinformation.
02:07
And Ariel was really asking, is it time
02:07
that podcasts were looked at as well?
02:11
we've had Steve Bannon basically
02:11
coming out with claims that aren't true
02:17
We've had Joe Rogan this week,
02:17
hosting Alex Jones, who was
02:20
banned from Spotify, but then he
02:20
invited him as a guest on Spotify.
02:25
James, do you think that podcasts
02:25
will become in the crossfire or our
02:31
podcasts to be treated differently
02:31
than social media networks?
02:36  James
I think it's really interesting.
02:36
So us rules are basically that
02:36
if you do stuff on the internet
02:42
then you can have anything on the
02:42
internet, but pull things down.
02:48
If you discover that they're bad.
02:50
Reactive moderation such as
02:50
that is basically the rule that
02:54
most of the internet runs on.
02:56
So internet providers, and that
02:56
includes podcast hosts are basically
03:01
there Not as publishers, they don't
03:01
sit there and check every single
03:05
thing that goes on their network.
03:06
They're really there.
03:08
Like the postal service So it's
03:08
very difficult to all of a sudden
03:12
turn around and say yes, but
03:12
podcast hosts should be really.
03:16
Careful about some of the
03:16
stuff that they put on there.
03:19
Having said that you can look at it from
03:19
the other side and you can say a podcast
03:24
host is aware that there's something
03:24
which is fairly unpleasant on their
03:29
service, then they should take it down.
03:32
And that will be a good thing
03:32
for them to end up doing.
03:35
And, probably not to my credit someone
03:35
contacted me about four months or so ago.
03:41
And they were really concerned
03:41
about a podcast that they had found
03:45
on one of the big podcast hosts.
03:47
And they said, is this the sort of
03:47
podcast that really should be there?
03:51
And it was from the UK.
03:53
It was deeply racist, deeply
03:53
unpleasant all kinds of things about
03:59
all kinds of races were on there.
04:02
And I thought that's really interesting.
04:03
I brought it up with the podcast
04:03
host and the podcast hosts said
04:07
there's our terms of service.
04:08
You should go and read them.
04:10
And I went to read them and I said, but
04:10
are you saying that your comfortable
04:14
keeping this material up there?
04:16
And they said, yes our terms of service
04:16
and that's literally all that they've
04:21
said, it's still there by the way.
04:23  Sam
Okay.
04:24
And can they just hide behind the terms
04:24
of services that is that acceptable?
04:30  James
I mean to a point, so you've
04:30
got, of course you've got, , the
04:33
American first amendment, which
04:33
essentially is all about free speech.
04:38
But it doesn't actually include podcast
04:38
hosts because podcast hosts are run
04:44
by companies and companies can make
04:44
a decision as to whether or not they
04:48
want stuff like that on their service.
04:51
This particular podcast host
04:51
clearly does want to take money.
04:55
From really unpleasant racists.
04:58
And it's very disappointing
04:58
that they're still doing that.
05:03
And to my embarrassment, I've
05:03
not made a full story about it.
05:06
I've not covered who that podcast host is.
05:10
Primarily because I suspect
05:10
that it's happening on every
05:13
single podcast host out there.
05:14
I suspect that there's really
05:14
unpleasant stuff out there.
05:18
And I think that may be, is part of what
05:18
Ariel's talking about here that actually.
05:22
This sort of thing is all over the place.
05:24
And, we should probably be a little
05:24
bit better as people in the industry of
05:29
actually taking some of this stuff off.
05:31
But then that instantly moves into
05:31
you're censoring people and, it's
05:36
against my first amendment rights
05:36
and the rights of free speech, which
05:40
don't exist, but, it's against all
05:40
of that staff and everything else.
05:43
And so it becomes a very,
05:43
quite unreligious conversation.
05:47  . Sam
I wonder whether it's also
05:47
part of section two 30 because Trump
05:51
really got his knickers in a twist.
05:53
I know he does normally, but he clearly
05:53
got his knickers in a twist when Twitter
05:56
started labeling his tweets as false.
05:59
And also then Facebook suddenly
05:59
got a backbone and decided to
06:03
join the gang and start to label
06:03
some of the stuff that was there.
06:06
Clearly they realized Trump was
06:06
leaving office and they were safer.
06:10
But given that he's trying to, as
06:10
his leaving gift removed, section two
06:14
30 it would make Facebook, Twitter,
06:14
and other social networks liable
06:20
for the content they publish now.
06:23
I wonder whether that will extend
06:23
to podcasting and podcasting
06:27
hosts or podcasts as themselves.
06:30
Because if there isn't that safe
06:30
Harbor, that's required to allow
06:35
you to say what you want to say.
06:37
Then you will be open.
06:38
Right now, Steve Bannon's war rooms still
06:38
stating that the Merican general election
06:44
was rigged, that the ballots were,
06:44
dumped And he's getting away with it.
06:48
And should that be allowed?
06:50  , James
and I think there's a difference
06:50
between just people being wrong.
06:54
Everybody has the right to be
06:54
wrong if you see what I mean.
06:57
the reason why Bannon was taken
06:57
off Twitter was he was advocating
07:01
violence against somebody else.
07:03
And that's not a good thing.
07:04
Now.
07:04
He may have been doing that as a joke,
07:04
who knows But I think there's a real
07:08
difference in between the U S view of,
07:08
free speech against everything else.
07:14
And freedom is the most important thing,
07:14
and I'm not going to wear a mask I'm
07:17
just gonna, kill myself, nobody else.
07:19
And most of the rest of the world
07:19
who do understand that there
07:23
is, a role for regulation and
07:23
they role for the government and
07:28
for other people in authority.
07:31
Actually to an extent
07:31
telling us what to do.
07:34
And I wonder whether
07:34
it's a cultural thing.
07:37  Sam
Like wearing a seat
07:37  James
Wear a seatbelt or, any
07:37
number of other things, wear a mask.
07:41
Think it's a difficult conversation.
07:43
It begins to be a cultural conversation.
07:45
It begins to be a legal conversation.
07:48
And obviously at the end of the
07:48
day, it's completely unrealistic
07:51
to expect any online service
07:51
to have to pre moderate stuff.
07:57
That goes on there services,
07:57
with the amount of new material
08:02
that's posted onto Facebook.
08:04
Onto Twitter every single day.
08:06
Nobody's going to sit there
08:06
first and moderate that before
08:09
you press the OK button.
08:11
So it just gets difficult and you
08:11
then just push this sort of stuff
08:15
into the underground as well.
08:16
It's going to be fascinating.
08:18
What happens with that in 2021?
08:22
Whether or not.
08:23
Apple is in charge of what goes into
08:23
Apple podcasts at the end of it.
08:27
Spotify is in charge of what goes into
08:27
Spotify podcasts in the end of it.
08:31
And that's one of the questions I think,
08:31
around the podcast index is that they are
08:35
deliberately saying, no, we don't do that.
08:38
That.
08:39
Potentially means that the podcast index
08:39
gets used for all kinds of nasty things.
08:44
And we just need to be aware of that.
08:46
I think, and work out
08:46
what we do with that.
08:49  Sam
I'm going to make a prediction.
08:50
I don't think Joe Rogan will
08:50
survive 2021 with Spotify.
08:54  James
Joe, Rogan's a whole extra
08:54
barrel of fish, so to speak.
08:58
It'll be really interesting seeing
08:58
what happens with Joe Rogan.
09:00
And that's just going to be
09:00
really fascinating watching.
09:04  Sam
His first show that he put
09:04
out he attacked transgender
09:08
and the Spotify staffers were
09:08
horrified by what he put out.
09:12
And his basic response was two fingers
09:12
back to Spotify saying you have no
09:16
rights over my editorial control.
09:19
So fundamentally I think he's
09:19
going to be very controversial.
09:23
And I don't know how the tension
09:23
between Spotify as corporate.
09:27
Brand and Joe Rogan's
09:29  James
brand it's a public
09:29
limited company as well.
09:32
From that point of view that's
09:32
important to bear in mind.
09:34
So , it's going to be really interesting
09:34
seeing what happens in terms of Joe Rogan.
09:37  Sam
Okay, moving swiftly on the bellow
09:37
collective has published its hundred
09:43
outstanding podcasts for 2020 James.
09:46
What's the Bellow Collective.
09:48  James
That's it.
09:49
An interesting question.
09:50
This is the fifth annual list of the
09:50
100 outstanding podcasts from 2020.
09:57
I wasn't sure either.
09:58
So I had a quick chat with
09:58
Galen Beebe, Bello Collectives.
10:01
Co-editor about the list and
10:01
about the bellow collective.
10:05
What is it?
10:06  Galen
The Bella Collective is a digital
10:06
publication about the podcast industry.
10:10
We publish podcasts, criticism,
10:10
reported pieces about the industry
10:14
op-eds profiles, playlists, resources
10:14
for podcast, creators, a newsletter
10:18
every other week, that kind of stuff.
10:20
So
10:20  James
a hundred outstanding podcasts.
10:22
It's chosen by a ton of great people.
10:24
It's been quite a year as well.
10:25
Was there any.
10:26
Particular themes that you
10:26
have spotted in that list,
10:31  Galen
washing the Bella 100,
10:31
which is what we affectionately
10:35
call it for five years.
10:37
And this was our most of the
10:37
moment list that we've published.
10:41
So I can't tell you exactly how
10:41
many episodes really on the list
10:45
were about COVID or about black
10:45
lives matter, but it was a lot of
10:50
them and a lot of them were also.
10:51
About politics, especially
10:51
in the US this year.
10:54
And then there were also a lot of
10:54
shows that aren't directly about COVID
10:58
like field recordings or home cooking,
10:58
which were two shows that were created
11:02
during the pandemic and in response
11:02
to the pandemic, but aren't, science
11:06
news documentary about the pandemic.
11:10
So one of our writers was listening
11:10
through to many episodes on the list
11:15
and noted that this is the year where.
11:18
A lot of the shows already feel dated.
11:21
Which is interesting because normally
11:21
we want a playlist essentially that
11:25
you will be able to listen to him,
11:25
that we want to continue to resonate
11:28
and be evergreen in a certain way.
11:30
But this was just a year that's so
11:30
particular that I would guess that
11:35
the majority of the podcasts are.
11:37
Extremely up this moment.
11:39  James
What I like about your list
11:39
is that I don't recognize too many of
11:42
the shows that have been recommended.
11:44
There's no nice white parents
11:44
or that's a great show.
11:47
There's no, Joe Rogan, is
11:47
that a very deliberate thing?
11:51
Do you look for those voices that maybe
11:51
haven't had coverage in other media?
11:57  Galen
It's a balance for us,
11:57
definitely between, a lot of us
12:00
enjoy really highly produced.
12:02
Well-resourced big name shows,
12:02
and we do want to lift those up.
12:07
But at this point there are
12:07
a lot of year-end lists.
12:09
And so I don't think it really
12:09
serves readers to just see
12:13
the same shows over and over.
12:15
Part of our mission is helping
12:15
people to discover new shows.
12:19
And so we don't exactly have requirements
12:19
for our contributors, but we have strong
12:24
encouragement to put a lot of independent
12:24
shows, a lot of shows from outside the U
12:29
S because we are a US-based publication,
12:29
so that could easily dominate.
12:32
And we also don't.
12:34
Intentionally, don't
12:34
call it a best of list.
12:36
We're not saying these are
12:36
the best shows of the year.
12:39
We are saying these shows are
12:39
doing something outstanding.
12:43
And so we still really want to make sure
12:43
that we're surfacing that for a reason.
12:48  James
Sure.
12:48
And I noticed quite a lot of
12:48
podcasts in the list that as you
12:52
say, weren't from the U S or weren't
12:52
even in the English language.
12:56  Galen
Yeah.
12:57
Almost a third of our list.
12:58
32% of our list this year was shows.
13:01
From outside the U S I believe
13:01
that's our highest number yet.
13:05
And so we always invite people
13:05
from outside of the collective
13:08
to contribute to the Bella 100.
13:10
And this year we really made it a
13:10
priority to invite people from around
13:14
the world and people who really know the
13:14
podcast really well in their regions.
13:18
We don't require them.
13:20
To recommend shows from their particular
13:20
region, but that is an expertise.
13:25
And so we strongly encourage it.
13:28
And we were really glad that
13:28
people came through with that.
13:30
Like you said, we are an English
13:30
language publication, but we had
13:34
Spanish speaking contributors.
13:35
We have Spanish speaking writers on
13:35
staff who listened to shows in Spanish.
13:39
And so we.
13:41
Open the door for
13:41
contributions in Spanish.
13:44
And we have eight, which I think is
13:44
pretty good for an English language
13:48
publication, with a hundred shows.
13:51
And we included the recommendations
13:51
in both English and Spanish.
13:54
And so that was, yeah, that was something
13:54
we were very proud of this year.
13:57  James
Galen, thank you
13:57
so much for your time.
13:59  Galen
Thank you for having
14:00
me.
14:00  Sam
Great.
14:01
Now I've got some more listening to
14:01
do over Christmas and new year's.
14:04
Thank you, James.
14:06
Now, moving on the we talked
14:06
about them in episode two.
14:11
they are the awards from
14:11
the podcast Academy.
14:14
They closed on the 15th of December.
14:17
Did you enter James
14:18  James
I did enter I've entered obviously
14:18
for pod news being the best news podcast.
14:24
So clearly no competition in that category
14:24
then it's going to be really interesting.
14:30
, I'm looking forward to that.
14:31
I think we've got two big award
14:31
ceremonies in the U S early next year.
14:35
We've got the iHeart radio podcast
14:35
awards which are happening in January.
14:41
Virtually and then in, I believe March
14:41
is when the ambitions are announced.
14:47
I know that it's going to be a good
14:47
ceremony because I've heard that podcast
14:51
movement are working on it and podcast
14:51
movement do know what they're doing.
14:54
So that should be really good.
14:56
And it'll be interesting seeing
14:56
who's flasher who makes the industry.
15:02
Appear as big as the industry is.
15:05
And and fingers crossed.
15:06
I'll be there picking up my award,
15:06
although frankly, I would doubt it.
15:11  . Sam
Now you've got a chance, James.
15:13
And luckily I didn't go in
15:13
the same category as you.
15:15
I did enter as well, but I've
15:15
gone for the technology category.
15:18  James
Maybe both of us will
15:20  Sam
commiserate with each other.
15:21
You
15:21  James
mean?
15:22
, maybe both of us have just
15:22
wasted a hundred dollars.
15:24
Now we've invested a hundred
15:24
dollars into the podcast Academy.
15:28
That's what we've done.
15:29
So
15:29  Sam
exactly.
15:30
Good luck to us both
15:31
now.
15:32
You covered a really interesting story
15:32
today about music streaming is stalling.
15:38
Why do you think music streaming
15:38
stalling, and what does that
15:41
got to do with podcasting?
15:43  James
What does it have
15:43
to do with podcasting?
15:45
So this is an article
15:45
in billboard magazine.
15:47
It's my will page.
15:49
And we'll use to be a music
15:49
economists, both for PRS, for music
15:54
in the UK, and then for a Spotify
15:54
in the U S and he's got all of the
15:59
numbers and he's a very bright man.
16:02
And he has pointed out that.
16:03
Pretty well from mid-July the
16:03
amount of music, audio streaming
16:09
has not been increasing.
16:10
So the growth has stalled and
16:10
that's probably a bad thing.
16:14
And the question that he asks
16:14
is podcasting replacing it.
16:19
Is there more podcasts
16:19
listening than in July?
16:22
Yes, there is.
16:22
Absolutely.
16:23
There is.
16:23
We've got the data showing that.
16:25
Are people consuming more
16:25
audio overall, quite possibly.
16:28
Is music streaming a casualty of that?
16:31
It'll be interesting seeing won't it.
16:33
So I wonder whether that's pointing
16:33
out, Spotify is plan and maybe
16:38
Spotify, his plan is to have more
16:38
people using their service but to
16:42
have to pay less for the music.
16:43
Who knows, but , some really interesting
16:43
data coming out of billboard.
16:49  Sam
again, one of my predictions for
16:49
2021 is that Netflix will by Spotify.
16:53  James
That's a prediction.
16:54  Sam
It's very easy.
16:55
If you have a look at the board
16:55
members of both Spotify and Netflix,
16:58
it's not exactly a hard one.
17:00  James
I'm currently reading a new
17:00
book, which comes out in January,
17:03
it's called the Spotify play.
17:05
And it's all about the history of Spotify.
17:07
And it's absolutely fascinating.
17:09
I didn't realize that Spotify
17:09
started doing podcasting in 2015.
17:13
That was a long time ago.
17:15
Really interesting reading it because
17:15
you get an idea and understanding
17:19
of, what has been firing up Spotify
17:19
and why they're in the game.
17:23
, really interesting book.
17:25  Sam
I interviewed Faisal Galleria,
17:25
their international development director.
17:28
Who's now left about
17:28
the growth of Spotify.
17:32
Daniel used to work for him at
17:32
Skype before he started Spotify.
17:35
And then he took Pfizer with him.
17:37  James
Very interesting.
17:38
There you go.
17:38  Sam
We will see whether I'm right
17:38
or wrong now, Moving forward,
17:41
Miguel and sounds profitable.
17:43
Release the pod scape.
17:44
I noticed that you were in there.
17:47
Is it a map of Portland?
17:48  James
Is it a map of Portland?
17:50
I think it might be.
17:50
Yes.
17:51
So sounds pod news is
17:51
weekly ad tech newsletter.
17:55
It's written by a very bright man called
17:55
Brian Barletta who understands this
17:59
space this week in sounds profitable.
18:01
She'll find, it sounds profitable, calm.
18:04
He talks about all of the
18:04
technology, which is involved in
18:09
monitoring podcasts, listening.
18:11
Some of it's quite scary from a
18:11
privacy point of view and all of that.
18:15
And what the pod scape is it's a visual
18:15
landscape of the podcast industry.
18:19
So you can see all of the
18:19
different companies in each of
18:21
the different areas of podcasting.
18:24
And it's a great thing.
18:26
Version one, launched
18:26
a couple of weeks ago.
18:28
It didn't have a section
18:28
for podcasts news.
18:32
In it.
18:33
And I said to Brian, about this whole pod
18:33
scape thing, how about getting something
18:38
in there so that pod news can be in there.
18:41
And so he's done that,
18:41
which is really good of him.
18:42
So version 1.1, one is available.
18:44
It's free.
18:45
You can go and download it.
18:47
You'll find a link to
18:47
it@soundsprofitable.com.
18:50  Sam
Now, one of the stories that did
18:50
peak my interest was the story about the
18:54
podcast taxonomy consortium, which was a
18:54
group of 43 companies getting together.
19:00
And they've posted the first
19:00
white paper proposing stuff.
19:04
And it's for job
19:04
descriptions in podcasting.
19:06  James
So we are still
19:06
a very young industry.
19:09
podcasting hasn't been going on for
19:09
a long time and because the industry
19:13
is very us focused, it means that
19:13
there's been this sort of cultural.
19:18
Difference between the U S between
19:18
Canada, between the UK Australia.
19:23
And so actually knowing what
19:23
somebody does from their job
19:26
description is really difficult.
19:28
And so what the podcast taxonomy
19:28
consortium has done is they've
19:32
produced a, essentially a list of jobs.
19:35
What the difference is between a
19:35
technical director and an audio engineer.
19:38
For example, apparently there is
19:38
one who knew So pod jobs, which is
19:43
a free jobs, website for podcasting
19:43
will shortly be supporting the full
19:48
taxonomy for all jobs listed, as
19:48
soon as I get adjacent file of it.
19:53
So looking forward to doing that,
19:53
but I think it's just a really handy
19:56
thing so that we can all be using
19:56
the same language when we're talking
20:00
about what it is that we do and
20:00
who it is that we're looking for.
20:03  Sam
by chance, I've reached
20:03
out to Daniel Rosenberg.
20:06
Who's now going to tell us more
20:06
about the podcast, taxonomy Daniel.
20:09  Daniel
My name is Daniel Rosenberg.
20:11
I'm the head of business
20:11
development for staff Mia.
20:13
That staff me up.com.
20:15
We like to think of ourselves as
20:15
the LinkedIn for media production.
20:19
So it's a place where you can go to staff
20:19
up your TV shows your digital projects.
20:23
It's a place where you can
20:23
go to find gigs to find work.
20:26
And we've been around for almost two
20:26
decades and something that we noticed
20:30
a couple of years ago, organically.
20:33
A lot of people were posting podcast
20:33
production positions on staff,
20:36
Mia, looking for podcast producers,
20:36
looking for assistance, looking for
20:41
audio mixers and sound engineers.
20:44
And we didn't have the structure on staff
20:44
Mia to highlight that a position was
20:49
specifically for the podcast industry.
20:51
We're mostly focused on digital
20:51
and television feature film.
20:55
And we saw a job posting go out
20:55
from one of the major studios in LA
21:00
in the U S and so I got in touch and
21:00
said, look, I would love to stop by.
21:04
I would love to hear a little
21:04
bit more about why a traditional
21:07
TV studio is posting podcast
21:07
positions on staff meet up.
21:12
And went over and spoke with
21:12
three of the women who have joined
21:16
this initiative, consequently.
21:18
And we started to have a conversation
21:18
about it and they said, look
21:21
we're having a bit of a problem.
21:22
We've used staff me up for 15 years.
21:24
We come from television and we're
21:24
posting positions with very specific
21:29
job descriptions, looking for producers.
21:31
And the people that are applying the
21:31
credits say that their producers, but it
21:37
doesn't map to traditional TV positions.
21:40
So we're not sure if we should be
21:40
calling these positions by a different
21:43
name to attract the right kind
21:43
of people who have the experience
21:46
within the podcast industry.
21:47
And so we started to go through defining
21:47
a couple of the positions and then.
21:52
basically what we thought of in that
21:52
meeting was maybe we can just come up
21:55
with a legend or some sort of a list of
21:55
positions and have the map to the same
22:00
positions in traditional television.
22:02
And the first thing I did was called
22:02
Arielle, who I've known for a couple
22:06
of years now and said what do you think
22:06
about this second thing I did was call
22:11
the guys at pod chasers, spoke with Cole,
22:11
Raven and said we should team up on this.
22:15
And then nothing happened.
22:17
And then fast forward, six months later
22:17
had another conversation about it.
22:21
And we were like, , this is a great idea.
22:22
And there's a need for this, there's
22:22
a problem that needs to be solved
22:25
and then nothing happened again.
22:27
And then six months later, we had
22:27
one more conversation about it.
22:32
And that was the first conversation
22:32
where I started to hear from Cole and the
22:36
team at pod chaser that it wasn't just
22:36
a problem when trying to staff people
22:40
for a podcast production, it was also an
22:40
issue with people adding their credits.
22:45
And you can do that on pod chaser.
22:47
And so some people are
22:47
putting executive producer.
22:51
Some people are putting five
22:51
credits because they did all
22:53
five jobs for one podcast.
22:55
That there was more than just a need for
22:55
the taxonomy of hiring people, but also
22:59
recognizing people and crediting people.
23:02
And so that's when we decided
23:02
to really make this happen.
23:05
We knew that in order for us to
23:05
do this successfully, we needed to
23:10
make sure that we didn't have an
23:10
overwhelming amount of blind spots.
23:14
We need to do be inclusive
23:14
and include people from.
23:17
All different parts of the industry
23:17
from different backgrounds from
23:21
historically underrepresented
23:21
backgrounds from different countries.
23:25
Not only for quick adoption, but also
23:25
so that we could do something that
23:29
is representative of our community.
23:31
And we all got on the phone and
23:31
started, contacting, I say the
23:34
phone, like we dial the phone.
23:36
Got out there and we started
23:36
reaching out to our networks and
23:39
explained what the opportunity was.
23:41
and everyone was excited about it.
23:43
From huge companies from small companies,
23:43
people independently working in the
23:46
industry, some people in traditional
23:46
television, people in the podcasting
23:49
world we created a private Slack channel
23:49
community where everyone's sharing
23:55
ideas and collaborating and we're
23:55
starting to build this little community.
23:59
And I think it's going to
23:59
turn into something more.
24:01
Think we're going to continue to
24:01
evolve podcasts, taxonomy, but I also
24:04
think it's going to be a group that's
24:04
going to work together to solve.
24:07
new problems come up with new ideas.
24:10
It's exciting.
24:11
And since launching a couple of
24:11
days ago, we've received about 25 30
24:17
different requests from people wanting
24:17
to get involved with version 2.0
24:21
from all over the world from Brazil
24:21
and France, and people wanting to
24:25
translate this into different languages.
24:27
Think it's really good early
24:27
signal and we'll see where it goes.
24:31
Brilliant.
24:32  Sam
Arielle.
24:33
How did you get involved in this?
24:35
And what's your role?
24:37
Great
24:37  Arielle
question.
24:38
I'll introduce myself, my name's
24:38
Ariel and this and Blatt, and I am
24:41
the community manager at squad cast.
24:44
I also have been running a podcast
24:44
newsletter for a few years, which is
24:48
how I got started in the podcast space.
24:50
I actually was running a podcast studio at
24:50
a coworking space when Daniel and I met,
24:56
he was Working at the coworking space.
24:59
So I was his go-to person for
24:59
podcast questions at the time.
25:02
And what happened was that he returned
25:02
from this meeting with the NBC folks
25:07
and he pitched the question to me,
25:09
Is this something that
25:09
people are thinking about?
25:10
Is this a need?
25:11
And I said, yes, very much because while
25:11
running the podcast studio, I came across
25:16
a lot of people who were wondering,
25:16
after we record who does this go to?
25:20
Like what does an engineer do?
25:22
What does a script writer do specifically
25:22
when it comes to this kind of podcast?
25:27
And so that was definitely
25:27
something I was thinking about.
25:29
And.
25:30
What I've done since is I consult
25:30
on podcasts and people are always
25:33
wondering, after you're done
25:33
recording, where does the show go?
25:37
Does it need to go to a fact,
25:37
checker is a fact checker and
25:39
official role, that kind of thing.
25:41
And I'm finishing up right now a semester
25:41
of learning audio, documentary skills in
25:47
Portland, Maine, and this is definitely
25:47
a question there when it comes to radio
25:51
and podcast production, it is absolutely
25:51
something that needs to be defined.
25:56
And I think more more than
25:56
just defining it'll help when
26:00
it comes to giving credits.
26:02
And I think that is huge because as
26:02
podcasts become more mainstream and
26:06
are feeding into IP intellectual
26:06
property, we definitely need to
26:11
know who did what and credit those
26:11
people appropriately and accordingly.
26:16
So my role, I guess I'd say right
26:16
now I'm running the Twitter.
26:19
I'm having a good time with that.
26:21
And we're getting nothing but
26:21
positive feedback on the Twitter.
26:24
It has been lovely.
26:25
You have a question.
26:26  Sam
What's the Twitter handle to help.
26:29  Arielle
Podcast taxonomy.
26:31
We're having a good time on there.
26:32
I retweet most things.
26:34
So please do give us a tag.
26:36  Sam
Excellent.
26:38
Dave over at pod chaser.
26:39
How did you get roped in by Daniel?
26:42
How did he bring you into the fold?
26:45  . Dave
So I'm Dave Connie, I'm
26:45
the head of product and marketing
26:48
over here at pod chaser.
26:49
And to just bring you up to
26:49
speed on what pod chaser is.
26:52
We're like the IMDP of podcasting.
26:54
On top of ratings and reviews and lists
26:54
and metadata for podcasting we also
26:59
track North of 8 million podcast credits.
27:03
So hosts guests, producers, all of that.
27:06
So as Daniel mentioned, we're
27:06
often Inundated with users
27:11
adding credits to our site.
27:12
And, there's a different name for
27:12
every single position out there.
27:16
So we've saw a need for a standard
27:16
taxonomy to come into play for
27:21
what exactly is this position?
27:23
So we have a moderation process
27:23
that reviews every credit
27:26
submission but we needed a rubric
27:26
to determine exactly, is this what
27:31
an executive producer actually is?
27:33
Daniel reached out to Cole.
27:34
I came into the fold when we
27:34
got a little bit further down
27:37
the line and we needed to.
27:39
Come into, okay.
27:41
We have a list of positions.
27:43
Let's start to call them.
27:45
We're coming from the video industry
27:45
where we're coming from podcasting.
27:47
Let's try to bring down and consolidate
27:47
let's bring down our descriptions
27:52
and really what that did is set
27:52
the stage for our community to
27:56
come in and react to something.
27:58
So rather than having everybody raise
27:58
their hands and start suggesting
28:03
everything and kind of making it a
28:03
mess It was really important that we
28:06
started with a kind of rubric kind of
28:06
spreadsheet that they can react to.
28:11
That allowed us to add a bunch
28:11
of new positions that allowed
28:15
us to Cole positions that
28:15
allowed us to edit descriptions,
28:18
.
28:18
So that was extremely important when we
28:23
When it came down to kind of brass tacks
28:23
put together the white paper and the the
28:30
website so that we can bring that in.
28:33
And to Ariel's point, we've gotten a lot
28:33
of positive feedback from everybody in
28:37
the community, and it's actually brought
28:37
more people into the podcast, taxonomy
28:41
fold to contribute, to collaborate.
28:44
And I think that's really what this is
28:44
all about is, This isn't something that
28:48
comes from staff me up in pod chaser.
28:50
This is something that is really
28:50
coming from within the industry.
28:54
And we have people from
28:54
production companies.
28:57
We have independent creators.
28:58
We have people on the marketing
28:58
side, people on the admin side and
29:02
really what it is we're just trying
29:02
to professionalize everything.
29:05
We're trying to solve the issue with
29:05
standardized and credits and standardizing
29:09
job descriptions, as we're getting.
29:12
People on board We definitely have
29:12
an eye towards inclusion and making
29:15
sure that, if this is going to be a
29:15
standard, that it represents everybody.
29:19
And I think that's extremely
29:19
important for what we do doing here.
29:23  Sam
So how many roles have you created?
29:25
Obviously I've read the white paper.
29:26
I forgot to count it by the way.
29:27
So maybe you can remind me.
29:29  . Dave
I believe we
29:29
have, 43 roles right now
29:32  Sam
And when you create these
29:32
roles were any left on the cutting
29:35
floor, people argue, I know
29:35
we're not having one of them.
29:39
We're not having that role.
29:40
That doesn't make sense.
29:41  . Arielle
We had a lot of
29:41
iterations of this discussion.
29:43
So I think initially we brainstormed
29:43
the core group and then we put
29:48
it out to the larger group.
29:49
Where we choose specific where we
29:49
not specific enough is a video editor
29:53
different from a video assistant video
29:53
editor, and we ultimately made decisions
29:57
that we think are representative of The
29:57
largest amount of people, how most people
30:03
are using these names and classifications.
30:06
People who work in the podcast space.
30:08
Love working in the podcast space.
30:10
And I feel like that's a sentiment that
30:10
extends all over and people just want to
30:16
improve this space and make it one that
30:16
reaches further reaches more people.
30:21
And I think that is the spirit
30:21
that brought so many people to
30:24
want to be part of this initiative.
30:26  Dave
I think it's important to
30:26
realize that, Podcasting is big media
30:30
But it's going to grow so much more.
30:32
We're still in the first,
30:32
what, 15 years of podcasting.
30:36
If this was television, we probably
30:36
wouldn't have color TV yet.
30:39
So this is something that is really
30:39
Important to everybody in podcasting,
30:44
because it helps us to grow as a medium
30:44
and kind of a high tide lifts all boats.
30:49
So I think that's why you're
30:49
seeing buy-in from people from
30:52
across the industry in a variety of
30:52
companies, in a variety of positions
30:56  Daniel
one of the things that
30:56
I hear about all the time is how
30:59
people that are true podcast people.
31:02
Whenever they're working with someone
31:02
from traditional TV or film that are
31:06
coming into the podcasting space.
31:08
They're like they don't get
31:08
it, or, They have 20 years of
31:11
experience in traditional TV.
31:12
They don't get podcast production
31:12
and there's a disconnect there.
31:16
And I think as this medium continues to
31:16
grow and expand, there are going to be
31:20
people from all of these different genres
31:20
and areas that are going to come together.
31:25
And so I think this will help
31:25
bridge some of those gaps and bring
31:28
everyone together a little bit.
31:29  Sam
Now Adam Curry and Dave
31:29
Jones are part of this consortium.
31:32
With the podcast index, will you take the
31:32
taxonomy and I'll ask Adam and Dave to
31:38
turn a tag on for you so that not only
31:38
can you say it's Daniel, Dave, or Ariel
31:44
who do this cost, but Hey, it's the job
31:44
role, but they actually have, so you
31:48
could do, I want to search for everybody.
31:50
Who's got, I don't know,
31:50
editorial experience.
31:52  Dave
We're working with the
31:52
podcast in text right now.
31:55
So they're taking our white paper and
31:55
kind of our collaborative spreadsheet
32:00
where everybody can get on to that and
32:00
turning it into a Jason file that can
32:05
sit in the podcast index and the get hub.
32:08
I believe James Cridlin
32:08
actually suggested this.
32:10
So that way as.
32:13
The taxonomy grows, people who are
32:13
using the podcast index can use whatever
32:17
tags they want and it fits in there.
32:20
And, a standard doesn't mean much unless
32:20
there's, uptake from the people out there
32:24
who are hosting and producing podcasts.
32:27
So I think that's a very
32:27
important step for us as well.
32:29
And then, when that goes out there,
32:29
that's something that's going to
32:33
allow the podcast taxonomy to.
32:35
Reach more people bring more people
32:35
into the collaboration and just
32:38
get stronger and stronger as we go.
32:40  Sam
I've got Dave and Adam
32:40
on next week's podcast.
32:43
So we'll make sure that we
32:43
get them to do that for you.
32:46
Last question, I guess is what next
32:46
are you going to create more job roles?
32:51
Are you going to create
32:51
bands for salaries?
32:53
how do you see this
32:53
evolving as a taxonomy?
32:56
You said it's a live documents.
32:58
Where do you see it next?
32:59  Daniel
Why don't I start?
33:00
And then let's all weigh in.
33:02
I know that we want to continue
33:02
to internationalize this.
33:06
And make sure that different
33:06
countries and different communities,
33:10
different languages are represented.
33:11
So I think that's one direction we
33:11
can go in and in parallel we want
33:16
to do what you mentioned earlier.
33:18
We want to make sure that companies
33:18
are adopting this and using this.
33:22
and look, I think we're gonna get
33:22
together with this big group of
33:25
people early next year to brainstorm.
33:27  Sam
if people internationally want
33:27
to get involved, where do they go?
33:30
How can they get involve?
33:31  Daniel
Podcasts, techsonomy.com.
33:34
And from there, you can reach out to us.
33:36
We ask you a couple of questions your
33:36
professional background, why you're
33:39
interested in being a part of it.
33:40
Then we'll review as a team and
33:40
ideally include you as we go forward.
33:45
So podcast, taxonomy.com.
33:48  Sam
Ariel.
33:48
Thank you so much for your time.
33:49
Daniel, Dave, it's been a pleasure to
33:49
talk to you all A fantastic initiative
33:54
to take the industry forward.
33:55
So thank you very much for doing
33:55
it They go James now much more
33:59
intelligent and clearly understand
33:59
what the podcast taxonomies.
34:02
Now we've got so much
34:02
more to go in this show.
34:05
One last story I really wanted
34:05
to cover was Charles is launched
34:10
their 20, 21 podcast privacy report.
34:13
It's a free PDF explaining
34:13
online privacy rules and tech
34:17
changes that will come next year.
34:19
What's this one about
34:19
James that you wrote about.
34:22  . James
Podcast privacy is going
34:22
to be a really important thing.
34:26
Next year it's already a really important
34:26
thing this year and online privacy,
34:30
generally particularly this piece from
34:30
charitable, which of course is a clever
34:33
piece of of work from them because
34:33
they are seen in some quarters as being
34:39
as sharing in some information with
34:39
podcasts listeners because that's of
34:43
course what they do, they're there to
34:43
attribute advertising but they have
34:47
put together a really helpful document,
34:47
which is all about how the privacy
34:53
rules, GDPR, CCPA all kinds of other.
34:57
New and exciting rules actually
34:57
affect us in podcasting.
35:01
It's a free download as a disclosure.
35:04
Chartable is currently split pod news.
35:07
But so really good read and it's
35:07
well worth having having a look at
35:11
so that we can understand where it
35:11
is that podcasting is actually going.
35:15
I'd be very keen that we highlight.
35:17
Privacy, which is why the podcast pages
35:17
on pod news actually show you whether
35:22
or not your listener data gets shared
35:22
with anybody, how that actually works.
35:27
What I mean when I say listen to data.
35:30
So is really important.
35:31
Now, one of my pieces of work for next
35:31
year is to stop using any third party
35:35
calls from the pod news websites.
35:38
I've already achieved that from pot
35:38
events and pod jobs and removing just
35:42
means that there's less chance for
35:42
Google, for Facebook, for everybody
35:47
else, knowing that you're having a
35:47
look at the pod news website which
35:51
is probably an important thing.
35:53
So , I think privacy is a very important
35:53
thing to watch out for next year.
35:57  , Sam
and I think it could be something
35:57
that actually happens to a lot of the
36:01
advertisers in the industry as well,
36:01
because next year Apple's iOS 14 is going
36:06
to turn on the identifier for advertisers.
36:09
is IDFA.
36:10
that will limit tracking for
36:10
advertisers which means no more cookies.
36:14
And it also means it'll tell you
36:14
when any app is tracking you, so you
36:19
can then say, Nope, don't track me.
36:21  . James
I'm fascinated at that.
36:23
I'm fascinated at how that's going
36:23
to work with podcasts because a
36:26
podcast app isn't responsible for
36:26
where the audio gets downloaded from.
36:30
So I'm really interested
36:30
to see how that works.
36:32
But I think it's good news actually,
36:32
because if you look at what data podcast
36:38
is a podcast hosts get and attribution
36:38
companies like chartable and pod sites
36:44
and others then they get the same sort of
36:44
information that you get from a website
36:49
where you haven't said yes to cookies.
36:52
So they get an IP address.
36:53
They're going to use our agent.
36:54
That's kind of it.
36:56
So I think it's actually probably good
36:56
news for podcasting because there'll be
37:00
a level playing field in terms of the
37:00
amount of targeting and the amount of
37:03
tracking that we can do in podcasting
37:03
as opposed to any other app out there.
37:09
So perhaps it's good use forest.
37:11  Sam
Okay.
37:12
Now one of the things we wanted to do
37:12
in Portland is to spend a little time
37:16
talking to those involved in podcasting.
37:19  James
That's right.
37:20
So this week I talked with Kate
37:20
Brantley Cherniss from lately.ai.
37:24
Now, lately is a super cool thing.
37:27
It takes your content.
37:28
It automatically works out what the best
37:28
bits are to share them on social media.
37:33
At least that's what I think it is.
37:35
I started by asking her
37:35
what lately AI actually is.
37:39  Kate
This is a question I'm
37:39
supremely bad at answering and
37:42
it's supremely embarrassing.
37:44
Cause it's my job.
37:46
So I'll try in two ways, the high
37:46
level way and the detailed, snazzy way.
37:50
So high level, you push a button.
37:53
We atomize your podcast into
37:53
hundreds of mini movie trailers.
38:00
So you can broadcast
38:00
them out into the world.
38:02
Like you are a marketing mega factory.
38:06
The snazzy part that happens
38:06
automatically in the background is
38:10
that all of the snippets we make for
38:10
you are automatically tested by AI.
38:16
That literally is learning what
38:16
your customers want to listen to.
38:21
In real time and updating all the time.
38:23
So it's picking the smartest bits of
38:23
everything you said in the podcast.
38:27  James
So it takes a number of
38:27
those smart things that you say and
38:31
turns them into social media posts.
38:35
How does it do that?
38:36
How does it know what works?
38:37
What does it?
38:38  , Kate
it's a combination of natural
38:38
language processing and artificial
38:42
intelligence and looking at
38:42
sentence structures, so literally
38:46
the formatting, but also the
38:46
words very specifically, right?
38:50
So I'm interested in making
38:50
the world better copywriters.
38:55
That's my secret endeavor.
38:57
and so lately looks for words and
38:57
strings of words that it knows are
39:01
testing well and having high engagement
39:01
and it looks to replicate them.
39:06
And it does that.
39:08
Automatically by analyzing
39:08
your, analytics, but also by the
39:12
input that you, the human gives.
39:14
So we encourage and kick people in
39:14
the pants really, to get in there
39:20
for every social post that it brings
39:20
to you put a little bit of your
39:24
voice on it or enhance it or fix it
39:24
because sometimes it's not perfect.
39:28
So that gives the AI the opportunity
39:28
to learn your voice and to get smarter.
39:33
And you say
39:34  James
multiple posts, why not
39:34
just post one or two tweets?
39:37
And there you go.
39:38
what have you learned in terms of
39:38
the amount of posts that really were?
39:41  . Kate
So there's two
39:41
parts of that question.
39:43
One is that, there's the old
39:43
marketing adage, which goes,
39:47
are you winking in the dark?
39:49
Not marketing is a winking in the dark.
39:51
Get it.
39:52
I can't see you cause it's dark out.
39:54
So we know that you have to
39:54
market yourself multiple times.
39:59
That used to be seven times that
39:59
I needed to hear read, or watch
40:03
your ad in order for it to sink in.
40:05
Now we know it's 12 to 14,
40:05
Quantity is imperative.
40:10
However, everybody's cottoned on to that.
40:12
We're all spam alerted.
40:14
Thank you.
40:15
Also Cambridge analytics for screwing
40:15
that up with all the third party,
40:18
social channels, Facebook, et cetera.
40:20
So they've.
40:22
squashed down on repetition
40:22
and it's annoying anyways,
40:25
no one wants to be annoyed.
40:26
And because lately is giving you say
40:26
40, 60, or a hundred different social
40:31
posts, different ways of marketing,
40:31
the same thing you avoid all that.
40:35
The other Avenue is that.
40:36
Customers respond to
40:36
different messaging, right?
40:39
You can't not everybody's the same.
40:41
You don't want to treat them the same.
40:42
That's annoying.
40:43
So treat them like the smart humans
40:43
they are and find out what access point
40:48
is going to make them do handsprings.
40:51  James
So if you were helping
40:51
people with their own social
40:54
media for their own podcast, what
40:54
tips would you actually give?
40:57  Kate
The most important thing is when
40:57
you're writing anything, whether you're
41:00
using lately or not, it doesn't matter is
41:00
to have an objective and be very clear.
41:05
The objective is not make more money and
41:05
it's not make more listeners hear you.
41:09
It has to be simpler than that.
41:11
And so it's two things in social media.
41:14
It's.
41:14
Click or share those.
41:16
Are your objectives, get a click
41:16
or get a share now the smaller you
41:19
are, the harder it is to get clicks.
41:21
Shares are a lot easier.
41:22
People love to share content
41:22
that resonates with them.
41:25
Want the one-liners right?
41:27
that's just so obvious.
41:28
And so number one have that in mind.
41:30
And then when you're writing
41:30
your copy, there's a couple of
41:34
mistakes that people make a lot,
41:34
but, the most important thing is.
41:37
You guys do this for a living all day
41:37
long, read what you write out loud.
41:41
If it in any way it feels
41:41
awkward coming out of your mouth.
41:44
It sounds awkward to me.
41:46
So don't do that change up those words.
41:48
Think about what's natural for you to
41:48
say and How you were being perceived on
41:52
the other end, because if it's stiff,
41:52
then that's what you're projecting.
41:55
And nobody buys or shares anything
41:55
from a stiff board, unless you're
41:59
Charlie Watts from the rolling stones
42:01  James
and where can I actually
42:01
go and have a look at a lately?
42:05
Channel, if you like, just so
42:05
that I can see how good the AI
42:08
is and what the thing looks like.
42:10  Kate
Thanks for asking.
42:11
so we love to meet people
42:11
and learn from them.
42:13
And so we demo individuals, we treat
42:13
small companies just like there were huge
42:18
companies with all the red carpet rollout.
42:21
it's not oppressive.
42:22
It's super fun.
42:23
You can get that@lately.ai
42:23
just clicked on my request.
42:26
However, there's also a free
42:26
tool on the site as well.
42:29
And you can give it a whirl just to see.
42:32
but warning though, your eyeballs
42:32
might pop out of your, so just saying,
42:37  James
Kate, thank you
42:37
so much for your time.
42:39
I appreciate
42:39
it.
42:40  Sam
Kate and she's such an
42:40
energy ball and Layli Dell.
42:42
AI is super cool.
42:44
Now, Gary V and I both use it for our
42:44
podcasts and I interviewed Kate a
42:48
few weeks back about her career as a
42:48
serious XM, late night rock chick host.
42:54
She had 20 million users and
42:54
she married a famous rock star.
42:57
And for some reason, she decided to
42:57
switch all that out and start lady.ai.
43:01
But if you want to find out why check
43:01
it out on sound talks, technology.
43:06
If you want the full interview,
43:07  James
now pod land is
43:07
sponsored by Buzzsprout.
43:10
They're a very good podcast
43:10
host at buzzsprout.com.
43:12
Sam, you are the person who
43:12
uploads this podcast to Buzzsprout.
43:16
Have you found it so far?
43:17
Have you used it before?
43:19  Sam
I haven't no, my podcast
43:19
is hosted on simple goals,
43:22
but I was looking for a reason
43:24
to use Buzzsprout sprout because it's
43:24
working very closely with Adam and
43:28
Dave on the podcast today, they've
43:28
implemented a lot of the new tags and.
43:33
One of the things I do like
43:33
they've made it very simple to our
43:36
transcriptions, but also chapters.
43:39
And again, those are a great
43:39
way for listeners to discover
43:43
parts of podcasts that they want.
43:45  James
So it's at buzzsprout.com
43:45
and there's a free trial.
43:49  Sam
James, what's coming up
43:49
in pod land for you this month.
43:52  James
You asked.
43:53
So I'm looking forward to chatting
43:53
with Steve Pratt in a couple of weeks.
43:56
He's a co-founder of.
43:57
Pacific content who put together
43:57
a brilliant list of podcasts
44:01
predictions, which I linked to earlier
44:01
on this week Steve will join me from
44:05
Vancouver in Canada in a few weeks
44:08
He's such a bright guy.
44:09
So that'll be really good looking forward
44:09
to hearing from him in a couple of weeks
44:13
And next week, Dave Jones and Adam Curry.
44:17
What about you, Sam?
44:19  Sam
I'll be interviewing Franz Josef.
44:21
he's head of partnerships or hop in
44:21
and we're going to be talking about
44:24
the future of online conferences.
44:26
If you haven't heard of hopping, they're
44:26
a UK company that started in 2019.
44:31
They raised 125 million for series
44:31
B round a couple of weeks back.
44:36
And that new capital
44:36
was raised at the time.
44:38
2.1 billion valuation, making in a
44:38
double unicorn I used Hoppin for my
44:44
last two podcasts festivals, and I'll
44:44
be doing another one in March, 2021.
44:48  James
Good Lord, double
44:48
unicorn That's cool.
44:51
Anyway and that's it for this week.
44:53
If you enjoyed your trips upon land, don't
44:53
make it your last, you can subscribe on
44:56
all the major podcast players or you can
44:56
visit our website@wwwdotpodland.news.
45:04  Sam
And don't bother to rate and review.
45:06
As clearly as James told
45:06
us Apple doesn't use it.
45:08
So don't waste your time.
45:09
But if you do want to do something
45:09
useful, you can help us by telling your
45:12
friends and share us on the socials.
45:14  James
Rate and review if you'd like to.
45:16
It's pointless, but to write in
45:16
our reviews, if you'd like to,
45:19
that would be also absolutely fine.
45:20
If you'd like daily news,
45:20
you should get pod news.
45:22
It's free@podnews.net, or ask your
45:22
smart speaker to play the news from
45:26
pod news, podcasting news and pod news
45:26
is where you'll find the links for all
45:30
the stories we've mentioned this week.
45:32
Music is from ignite jingles.
45:34
I use clean feeds to interview
45:34
Galen and Kate and edited those on
45:38
Hindenburg journalist pro cause I'm
45:38
old fashioned Portland was edited
45:42
by Sam Sethi and D scripts and were
45:42
hosted and sponsored by Buzzsprout.
45:47
And we'll see you in pod land next week.
45:49
Keep listening.