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Buzzcast is a roundtable discussion about podcasting from the people at Buzzsprout. We'll cover current events and news, podcast strategy, tools we are using, and dip into the Customer Support mailbag to test our podcasting knowledge. If you want to stay up-to-date on what's working in podcasting, Buzzcast is the show for you.

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episode 39: The Average Podcast Episode Gets This Many Downloads in the First 7 Days (feat. Tom Buck) [transcript]


In this episode, guest host Tom Buck joins us as we discuss balancing a 9-5 with 3x podcasts AND a YouTube channel, break down the download stats from every active Buzzsprout podcast in October, Apple Podcasts' new embed player, and chat with Listen Notes founder Wenbin Fang on the new Global Rank and Listen Score.

Links from this episode:

  • Subscribe to Tom Buck's YouTube channel
  • Buzzsprout Platform Stats for October 2020
  • Apple Embed Player
  • Listen Notes


Check out our new Buzzsprout merch store on Cotton Bureau.

Subscribe to the Buzzsprout YouTube channel to watch gear reviews, software tutorials, and podcast strategy videos.

Review Buzzcast in Podchaser to let us know what you think of the show.

Buzzsprout's Dynamic Content tool now allows you to save multiple clips in your Dynamic Content Library and track how many downloads each clip receives. Learn more on our New Features page.


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 2020-11-20  1h4m
 
 
00:00  Alban
Travis, should we talk
00:00
about where Kevin is?
00:02  Travis
I don't know. Should we
00:02
talk about where Kevin is?
00:05  Alban
He's just not here. I
00:05
feel like somebody is probably
00:09
sitting there going, man. Isn't
00:09
there like somebody else who's
00:12
mostly on the podcast? They're
00:12
not there anymore.
00:14  Travis
It's true.
00:15  Alban
Kevin is out Tom is in
00:15
for today. But Kevin will be
00:17
back in two weeks. So you don't
00:17
have to. He's not gone forever.
00:21  Travis
If you listen to
00:21
Buzzcast because you love the
00:23
sound of Kevin sultry voice, he
00:23
will be back in two weeks.
00:26  Tom
I'm not taking over. I'm
00:26
not the new step heaven.
00:34  Travis
Well, today, we have a
00:34
special treat. We have a new co
00:36
host joining us, Tom buck. Tell
00:36
us a little bit about yourself
00:39
and kind of you how you got
00:39
started in podcasting? Yeah,
00:42
it's
00:42  Unknown
my pleasure. Thanks for
00:42
inviting me, podcasting has been
00:45
a huge part of my world since
00:45
2009, was when I remember, like
00:50
actively listening to podcasts.
00:50
And it's kind of the same thing
00:53
as YouTube, where I was like,
00:53
This is so cool. I wish I could
00:56
do something like this, not
00:56
realizing that, like, there's
01:00
almost no barrier to entry. And
01:00
so it wasn't until 2019 that I
01:06
decided to start my own personal
01:06
podcast, I had done a few
01:10
through my job as a teacher,
01:10
like producing and setting up
01:12
podcasts for work. And that was
01:12
cool to be on that side of it.
01:17
But creating one of my own was
01:17
something I had never done
01:20
before. And I kind of just
01:20
jumped in, almost as a way of,
01:26
I'm so used to being a teacher,
01:26
and also making YouTube videos,
01:30
both of which require me to be
01:30
very succinct and very condensed
01:35
and like polished. And doing a
01:35
podcast was a way for me to do
01:40
something where I could just go
01:40
like long form and not be
01:43
interrupted and really, like
01:43
dive into something and it felt
01:47
so good. It was like therapy.
01:47
And that was what kicked it off.
01:51
And then I ended up currently
01:51
have like three podcasts plus to
01:55
get to guest hosts this one,
01:55
which is the best one.
01:57  Travis
Oh, thank you. And we
01:57
don't say so ourselves. Yes.
02:00  Alban
Tom, you're a you're a
02:00
high school teacher. Correct?
02:03
Yeah,
02:04  Tom
I'm a high school digital
02:04
media teacher.
02:05  Alban
I love these said I like
02:05
a podcast, because that's a long
02:08
form. I don't get interrupted
02:08
and you're like, that is
02:11
definitely the that's something
02:11
that only a teacher would say,
02:14  Unknown
Yes, I can't. I mean,
02:14
it's been weird this year,
02:17
because everything has been on
02:17
zoom so far. So it's, you know,
02:20
it's kind of the opposite
02:20
problem. Like I almost wish kids
02:22
would talk more. But in the
02:22
regular classroom, even though
02:25
I've got great students and
02:25
like, I feel my classroom
02:28
management is pretty decent. I
02:28
bet you can't go more than two
02:31
sentences without having to
02:31
like, you know, pause and wait.
02:36
Or I try not to shush because
02:36
it's so like, it feels so
02:40
demeaning. Yeah, but like, as a
02:40
teacher, there's, there's just
02:44
times where you just find
02:44
yourself like, and it's like,
02:47
oh, no, it's terrible. So having
02:47
a podcast, I can just complete a
02:52
thought, like a whole thought.
02:52
And it's wonderful.
02:57  Alban
Well, that's cool. So
02:57
like Travis said, the reason we
02:59
wanted you to hop on the
02:59
podcast, today's because you're
03:02
a new Buzzsprout. creator, you
03:02
joined the Buzzsprout creator
03:06
program. And one of the things
03:06
we said before we went live was
03:13
in our minds. I feel like a lot
03:13
of people listening this
03:15
podcast, you're on kind of the
03:15
same journey, as most of us,
03:20
except you're like a couple
03:20
steps ahead. So you talked about
03:23
your three podcasts, you talked
03:23
about the you're a teacher, you
03:27
also the way we connect with you
03:27
is through your YouTube channel.
03:31  Unknown
Yeah, it's funny you
03:31
say that, because anyone who
03:34
makes YouTube videos, and I
03:34
guess the same is true for
03:36
podcasting. But my relationship
03:36
with my podcast is very
03:39
different than my relationship
03:39
with my YouTube channel. But on
03:42
my channel, where it's mainly
03:42
like audio and video tutorials,
03:46
reviews, things to help people
03:46
get better audio and video, I
03:50
try to basically act as though
03:50
I'm making videos for myself six
03:54
months ago. So I just kind of
03:54
think of like, what what did I
03:57
need help with six months ago
03:57
was struggling with what were my
04:00
questions. That's what I should
04:00
make a video now. And it seems
04:02
like that works really well.
04:02
Because then the people who find
04:05
it, it's like, I, I know them. I
04:05
know what they're going through.
04:10
And then creating the podcast
04:10
side of it was, it was almost to
04:14
be an escape from YouTube where
04:14
I spend way too much time
04:18
looking at analytics. And, you
04:18
know, every number and every
04:22
metric and I was like podcasts,
04:22
I kind of just want to start a
04:25
thing. And it wasn't until
04:25
several months after doing it
04:29
that suddenly people were like,
04:29
Oh, I was listening to this
04:32
episode and blah blah blah. And
04:32
I was like you were you were
04:34
listening to that. And I kind of
04:34
forgot that that's a part of it.
04:37
Like it's like oh yeah, a put
04:37
out episodes and then people do
04:41
listen to them and it it has
04:41
then grown into a thing, which I
04:47
mean I have not spent much
04:47
effort in promoting it other
04:50
than like putting some links
04:50
here or there. Because it's just
04:53
kind of been like side passion
04:53
projects, but it has grown a
04:58
community that I didn't think I
04:58
could grow through podcasting,
05:02
but it's been, it's been
05:02
incredible. And it's to the
05:04
point now where, even though I
05:04
feel like I'm very good with my
05:07
consistency, there's been a
05:07
couple of weeks where I've
05:09
missed a week, or like, wasn't
05:09
able to record an episode, and
05:13
people will send messages and
05:13
go, like, I was ready for my
05:15
Monday morning thing, and there
05:15
was no episode I just want to
05:18
check in Are you okay? And
05:18
that's, that's, that's been that
05:22
has been amazing to me. And
05:22
that's really motivating to kind
05:25
of keep it going and make it a
05:25
priority. Even though there's
05:28
also then full time work and
05:28
family and, and all of life, you
05:32
know, that exists outside of it.
05:34  Alban
So just to kind of like
05:34
recap some of this. You've got a
05:38
YouTube channel, yes, that has
05:38
something in the order. It's
05:41
like 40,000 subscribers. So it's
05:41
like, it's a decent size YouTube
05:45
channel. You have three
05:45
podcasts. You are a high school
05:49
teacher during COVID. Yeah. And
05:49
so I just want to make sure
05:54
like, you're also you're a
05:54
single guy that has all this
05:57
free time.
05:58  Unknown
No, I'm married. We
05:58
don't have kids, we have two
06:02
dogs. Those are our kids. And I
06:02
say that with pride, though. And
06:07
luckily, aside from just being
06:07
genuinely awesome, in general,
06:11
my wife, who is the co host of
06:11
one of my podcasts is like a
06:15
content creator herself. So she
06:15
does YouTube and YouTube
06:17
coaching, which is great,
06:17
because she understands what I'm
06:22
talking about and what I'm going
06:22
through. And we're you know,
06:26
it's very similar. So when I say
06:26
like, I need to go lock myself
06:29
in the room on Saturday
06:29
afternoon, and like record
06:31
myself talking to nobody. She's
06:31
like, yeah, that's normal. You
06:35
should go do that.
06:37  Travis
Yeah, not the reaction
06:37
of most of our spouses, I
06:39  Unknown
think, yeah, so I have
06:39
very appreciative of that
06:42
understanding.
06:43  Travis
So I'm curious, like,
06:43
you are certainly, you know,
06:46
down the pathway of being a
06:46
content creator, you know,
06:49
seeing a certain measure of
06:49
success, especially as someone
06:52
who's independent, and you know,
06:52
not getting a lot of support
06:55
outside of just the content, you
06:55
create yourself, right. If you
06:58
were to go back to when you
06:58
first started your YouTube
07:00
journey, your podcast journey?
07:02  Tom
Mm hmm.
07:02  Travis
What would be the advice
07:02
you would give yourself at that
07:05
point? Knowing what you know,
07:05
now?
07:08  Unknown
I Yeah, that's a great
07:08
question. I started my YouTube
07:11
channel in 2017. And then my
07:11
podcast started in 2019. But I
07:16
think the advice could almost be
07:16
the same for both of them, which
07:19
is I, I was so wary of strategy,
07:19
when I got started. Just because
07:26
I like my number one value was
07:26
authenticity, and being open and
07:31
honest and authentic. And I was,
07:31
so I felt so bombarded with, you
07:35
know, ads everywhere, and
07:35
sponsored content and things
07:38
that seem authentic, and then
07:38
you scratch the surface a little
07:40
bit, and you realize, Oh, this
07:40
is not what it seems at all. And
07:45
I was so jaded by that. And, I
07:45
mean, I grew up listening to,
07:49
you know, punk and ska bands,
07:49
and California, which are all
07:52
very much, you know, no big
07:52
record labels, and you can't
07:55
sell out, bro. And like that
07:55
kind of stuff. And that just
07:59
like had been in my brain. And
07:59
so when I started creating my
08:02
own content, the idea was, it
08:02
just nothing can compromise that
08:07
authenticity, which I still
08:07
stand by. But what I didn't know
08:11
was you can actually still be
08:11
strategic and authentic at the
08:15
same time. And just and if
08:15
you're being strategic, it
08:18
actually just means you're being
08:18
smarter with your time and your
08:20
energy. So it's going to take
08:20
time, when you start something
08:23
new to sort of get your
08:23
bearings, figure out what you're
08:26
doing, figure out who it's for,
08:26
that's normal. But I would
08:30
encourage myself, like, Hey,
08:30
don't wait a year before you
08:33
actually like, admit to yourself
08:33
that you want to take this
08:36
seriously. Like, you can just
08:36
start taking it seriously from
08:40
the beginning. And that's going
08:40
to help you get your bearings a
08:44
lot more quickly. And I wish I
08:44
would have learned that lesson,
08:47
it would have saved me just so
08:47
much wasted energy, honestly.
08:51  Alban
So are there any
08:51
specifics that you would kind of
08:54
tell me like what questions
08:54
should people be asking
08:56
themselves if they are kind of
08:56
like, you know, three steps
09:00
behind where you are right now?
09:02  Unknown
I would say
09:02
sustainability is key. I mean, I
09:06
would imagine someone who's a
09:06
couple steps behind me probably
09:09
has like, their equipment thing
09:09
I know, that's a very, very
09:12
popular question is, what gear
09:12
do I use? What do I need, and
09:15
especially when it comes to
09:15
podcasting, it's so accessible,
09:17
and things are so good. You
09:17
know, if you got your phone,
09:20
you're good enough to get
09:20
started. The bigger issue for me
09:23
is sustainability. And sometimes
09:23
people will have an idea where
09:26
they'll go, you know, I want to
09:26
do this podcast about this thing
09:29
where I talked to these people
09:29
about blah, blah, blah. And I'm
09:31
like, that sounds like a great
09:31
idea. But you could do four
09:34
episodes. And maybe that's fine.
09:34
Maybe you want to do like one of
09:37
my favorite podcasts ever is s
09:37
town, which is seven episodes.
09:41
And I've listened to it like
09:41
four or five times, like all the
09:44
way through. So if you want to
09:44
do like a limited run thing,
09:47
that's cool. But if you want it
09:47
to be something that you do for
09:50
a long time, it needs to be
09:50
something that's sustainable.
09:53
And that's whether it's a
09:53
podcast or YouTube or anything
09:56
so what what can you explore
09:56
what can you dive into That you
10:00
don't get tired of, and that you
10:00
could see yourself doing not
10:04
just, you know, five or 10
10:04
episodes of, but 50 100 200,
10:09
like before, things really even
10:09
start picking up because
10:12
oftentimes you have to make 50
10:12
or 100 things before it even
10:16
gets any traction at all. And I
10:16
think a lot of people sometimes
10:20
will make three or four episodes
10:20
and then wonder like, why isn't
10:22
this taking off? Why isn't
10:22
everyone finding it? Why am I
10:25
not on the apple homepage, or,
10:25
you know, or whatever, and so
10:30
that that sustainability, but a
10:30
big fear that I have found in
10:34
people is the thing that they're
10:34
interested in, they feel is
10:37
oversaturated, you know, they're
10:37
interested in talking about
10:39
technology, and they feel
10:39
there's too many people or
10:41
whatever it is. And I think it's
10:41
very important to remember that
10:46
that might be true, there might
10:46
be other people doing it, it
10:48
might be a saturated, market
10:48
saturated niche, but you have a
10:51
unique angle, unique
10:51
perspective, unique experience.
10:55
And if that's the thing that you
10:55
don't get tired of talking
10:58
about, that's gonna make you
10:58
able to sustain it like as as a
11:02
marathon rather than a sprint.
11:02
And that means I think you
11:07
should just go for it, because
11:07
the thing that makes you stand
11:10
out will emerge over time. And
11:10
that's what's gonna draw people
11:13
to you and help you build your
11:13
audience, your community, and
11:15
all those things that that
11:15
really do let you keep going
11:19
over a longer period of time.
11:21  Alban
I mean, there's some
11:21
areas that I mean, there's got
11:24
to be 40 podcasts about guys
11:24
talking about Apple products.
11:30
Oh, yeah. And I'm always like,
11:30
if whoever was the 41st to do
11:36
it, you are probably feel like a
11:36
total imposter, like, What do I
11:40
have to say, That's not being
11:40
said by all these other people?
11:45
Mm hmm. And I think that it's
11:45
not that you're talking about
11:49
something they're not because
11:49
you're all talking about the
11:51
same new iPhones, the new
11:51
MacBooks. But you are bringing
11:55
just a totally different
11:55
perspective, if all of them are
11:58
super techie, and you're an
11:58
attorney, and you're going yeah,
12:02
this is how I use it in my work,
12:02
or you're a teacher, and you're
12:06
talking about, actually, this is
12:06
a huge benefit, because most
12:09
people don't understand how
12:09
difficult it is to get 30 kids
12:14
with different computers using
12:14
the same thing. Well, now it's
12:17
gonna be so much easier because
12:17
of these features, you are
12:20
bringing an experience that is
12:20
unique, and that unique
12:25
experience is going to resonate
12:25
with some portion of the
12:28
audience.
12:29  Unknown
Yeah, exactly. And
12:29
there's also just the part of
12:32
it, that's you, it's sort of the
12:32
intangible thing, where if even
12:37
if you are saying the exact same
12:37
stuff as somebody else, you
12:41
know, you have your personality
12:41
and your, your way of doing it
12:45
that some people just might
12:45
connect with more than others.
12:47
It's like being a teacher, I'm
12:47
kind of lucky that I the only
12:50
one who teaches my subject, I
12:50
campus, so no one knows what I'm
12:54
doing, which is great. But for,
12:54
for other teachers, and like I
12:59
started as an English teacher,
12:59
you know, if you have for
13:02
sophomore English teachers, the
13:02
curriculum is the same in all
13:05
those classes. But you will
13:05
have, you know, the same student
13:09
might transfer between classes
13:09
throughout the year and be like,
13:12
I really don't like this
13:12
teacher, but I love this
13:13
teacher. And it's like they're
13:13
doing the same content there.
13:16
It's literally like from the
13:16
same books. But it's the
13:20
approach that's entirely
13:20
different. And it doesn't mean
13:22
that a teacher is bad or good.
13:22
It just means that personality
13:24
wise perspective, why something
13:24
clicks, something doesn't click.
13:27
And the same is true for online
13:27
content, where, you know,
13:31
they're just, I have found
13:31
people on YouTube and podcasts
13:34
where there's just something off
13:34
putting to me about the way that
13:37
they do their themes, like it
13:37
doesn't, it doesn't land and
13:39
then I go to somebody else who's
13:39
doing the same thing. But I just
13:42
feel like it's so enjoyable. And
13:42
I don't know what that is. And,
13:46
you know, everybody has that
13:46
that's going to be able to, to
13:49
build that, that crowd or that
13:49
audience around you.
13:55  Alban
So one of the questions
13:55
we get pretty regularly are
13:58
people want to know how their
13:58
podcast is performing. And we
14:02
have talked about this. A ton of
14:02
times on this podcast, we talked
14:06
about it in our Facebook group.
14:06
And whenever we write a lot of
14:10
our blogs and our guides, I feel
14:10
like we ended up pulling in a
14:14
lot of data for people to
14:14
compare their podcast. And it's
14:19
not comparison trying to say
14:19
like, are you better or worse,
14:21
but just to kind of see if
14:21
you're on the right track. And
14:26
we realized, like, you know,
14:26
this was pretty popular that a
14:30
lot of people want it to be able
14:30
to see it. And so we've got
14:34
something new that is out by the
14:34
time that you're listening to
14:38
it.
14:38  Travis
Yeah, so we are now on a
14:38
monthly basis, updating our
14:43
Buzzsprout platforms, stats. So
14:43
if you go into your personal
14:47
podcast, you see all your
14:47
download stats, and your apps
14:50
and your devices and stuff like
14:50
that. We are now every single
14:53
month showing you all the
14:53
podcasts on Buzzsprout and how
14:57
those apps are performing and
14:57
what those mean median download
15:00
numbers are and you know, the
15:00
countries that are popular and
15:03
the devices that are popular. So
15:03
you can kind of stack up your
15:06
stats and see how they compare
15:06
with, you know what other people
15:08
are seeing. And we'll leave a
15:08
link to these stats in the show
15:11
notes if you want to go and
15:11
check those out as we're talking
15:13
about it. But let's go ahead and
15:13
just go through these, and just
15:17
talk through some of the numbers
15:17
for October. So I imagined the
15:21
beginning of December, we'll
15:21
pull in the November stats of
15:24
let's just talk about the
15:24
October stats. So for all the
15:27
Buzzsprout podcasts, we in the
15:27
month of October saw almost 64
15:34
million downloads, which, when
15:34
we sent the link to Tom, he was
15:39
like, wow, Buzzcast is doing
15:39
really well. Yeah.
15:43  Unknown
I was not prepared for
15:43
this. But that is an amazing
15:47
number.
15:48  Alban
Oh, yeah. So you could
15:48
see monthly downloads, how many
15:51
episodes were published by
15:51
Buzzsprout podcasters. We This
15:56
is all this is a subset of
15:56
people we call active
15:59
podcasters. And it's just if
15:59
people have pod faded, or
16:03
they're not regularly releasing,
16:03
we removed them from this data,
16:06
because that really will skew
16:06
it. You know, if we have a bunch
16:09
of people who aren't releasing
16:09
anything, yet, we've got a
16:11
section. I mean, probably my
16:11
favorite section is this podcast
16:15
app section is pretty common.
16:15
Like we see this in articles all
16:19
the time, Spotify is taken away
16:19
X percent of the apple podcast
16:25
share, Google podcast is
16:25
growing. And we hear all these
16:29
numbers. But one or two podcasts
16:29
isn't a good data point. But
16:33
across all Buzzsprout is a
16:33
pretty strong data point of
16:38
Okay, this is about how well
16:38
Google podcasts is doing. So we
16:41
want to just kind of go through
16:41
this list and kind of give
16:43
people a little bit of a taste
16:43
of what's on this page.
16:47  Travis
Yeah, and I think the
16:47
first app won't surprise people.
16:50
But I think depending on if you
16:50
consider yourself to be
16:53
knowledgeable about the podcast
16:53
industry, or seeing it from
16:57
fresh eyes, you might have
16:57
opposite reactions to the
17:01
percentage next to this app. So
17:01
the top app, no surprises Apple
17:04
podcasts. They've been the
17:04
number one app since the word
17:09
podcast was even a thing. Well,
17:09
it was iTunes before and then
17:12
they switched it but same app.
17:12
But the number next to that is
17:17
47%. So 47% of all the podcast
17:17
downloads across all the active
17:22
Buzzsprout podcasts came from
17:22
Apple podcasts. Now, if you have
17:26
been following the podcast
17:26
industry for some time, that
17:29
seems low, because typically
17:29
Apple's in the 60 to 65% range
17:34
when you look at some of this
17:34
other data. But if you're new,
17:37
you could be like, Wow, that's a
17:37
lot. That's like half, half of
17:40
all downloads come from Apple
17:40
podcasts.
17:42  Alban
And this is Apple
17:42
podcasts the way that we have it
17:44
on a Mac. And on your phones, if
17:44
it's actually the app saying,
17:49
Hey, I'm Apple podcasts. When we
17:49
get further down the list,
17:52
iTunes will make an appearance
17:52
because there are still people
17:55
who are using truly using a
17:55
software called iTunes to
17:59
download podcasts. So it'll
17:59
still be there. And it's
18:03
actually doing pretty well. So
18:03
Tom, do you want to take us down
18:06
the list a little bit?
18:07  Unknown
Yeah, sure. I mean, the
18:07
number two option is probably no
18:12
surprise, which is Spotify, at
18:12
24% coming in. And those were no
18:18
surprise to me, because those
18:18
are the big guys. What was kind
18:23
of a surprise was then the how
18:23
much the other platforms are
18:28
like fighting over the ones in
18:28
the two percents. And that seems
18:31
to be pretty competitive.
18:31
Because like Google is it 2.4
18:36
just a web browsers 2.1 I was
18:36
interested in actually a little
18:40
bit further down is the
18:40
Buzzsprout embed player because
18:42
I like use that on my website.
18:42
And that's 1.9% which I thought
18:46
was actually like a good number
18:46
for just people finding that
18:51
embedded throughout the
18:51
internet. So that actually makes
18:53
me excited. Yeah, and then
18:53
there's stuff down here that I
18:58
didn't even know like, Instagram
18:58
is point 1% kind of way down at
19:02
the bottom and I was I don't
19:02
even understand how someone is
19:06
actually getting a podcast on
19:06
Instagram. So that was
19:09
surprising to me.
19:10  Alban
We saw a few downloads
19:10
start coming through tik tok.
19:14
And I was like trying to figure
19:14
out like, How the heck is
19:16
anybody listening to a podcast
19:16
or tik tok? Like, yeah, there's
19:20
some way they can get a link to
19:20
get to a web page to play an
19:24
episode there. And tik tok is
19:24
the one that's requesting the
19:28
episode. And I was like, well,
19:28
it's, there are five people that
19:32
have done it or something,
19:32
whatever
19:33  Tom
the number works. Yeah,
19:35  Travis
well, I do know, at
19:35
least for Facebook, and I'm not
19:38
a heavy Instagram user. So this
19:38
may or may not be true. But I
19:40
know for Facebook. If you're in
19:40
the app, and you click on a web
19:44
link, it actually opens a
19:44
Facebook internet browser,
19:47
whereas a jump over it's a
19:47
Safari or Chrome or whatever you
19:50
have on your phone. And so if
19:50
someone clicks a link from
19:54
within Facebook, and then
19:54
listens to a podcast episode, we
19:57
will see that as a Facebook
19:57
play. Yeah, so if you have
20:01
Facebook or Instagram showing up
20:01
in your personal podcast stats,
20:04
and that's a good indication
20:04
that the social media marketing
20:07
that you're doing is actually
20:07
working. And so that would be a
20:09
good thing. Good thing to see.
20:11  Tom
That's okay, that makes a
20:11
lot more sense, then.
20:13  Alban
Yeah, so just to run
20:13
through Apple, podcasts,
20:16
Spotify, then a massive drop off
20:16
to Google podcasts, 2.4, then
20:21
just web browsers in general.
20:21
And then we get into some of
20:26
like, the very popular not pre
20:26
installed apps. So the number
20:31
one of those is castbox. 2%.
20:31
castbox, has a great player,
20:38
they have a really great team.
20:38
And we really like them. podcast
20:42
addict, which is the I think the
20:42
number one Android app for
20:47
podcasting. 1.9% Buzzsprout
20:47
embed player 1.9%. So that's
20:54
when you put the Buzzsprout
20:54
player on your own site. Then
20:59
stitcher who is been a big
20:59
player in the game for a long
21:03
time. 1.8, the Buzzsprout
21:03
website. So that's if you don't
21:07
have your own site, and people
21:07
are going to your site and
21:10
listening there. That's 1.5.
21:10
Obviously, that one is not
21:15
industry wide. Because if you
21:15
know, if you're on a different
21:18
podcast host, obviously, your
21:18
Buzzsprout site gets zero place.
21:24
Then we get my personal favorite
21:24
overcast at 1.5. And then I had
21:28
to get this one in there. 1.4 of
21:28
all podcast listens are coming
21:34
from iTunes. And those are
21:34
people who have not updated this
21:37
is how big the Apple is. In the
21:37
podcasting industry. More people
21:42
are listening on iTunes than on
21:42
I Heart Radio or pocket casts
21:46
they're listening to on an app
21:46
that should have been updated
21:50
years ago.
21:51  Unknown
That's pretty wild,
21:51
even more than Pandora and
21:54
amazon music. iTunes is taking
21:54
more.
21:58  Alban
Yeah, it's definitely
21:58
surprised, was surprising to me.
22:00
But it's just interesting to
22:00
kind of go through this list and
22:03
see what else is there. Are
22:03
there any other sections that
22:08
kind of jump out to you guys
22:08
that you would like to talk
22:10
about?
22:11  Unknown
The devices section is
22:11
really interesting to me? Well,
22:15
it's sort of device and device
22:15
type, which isn't really a
22:17
surprise, but the top two
22:17
devices are Apple iPhone at
22:21
64.7% and android phone at
22:21
22.8%. Which isn't surprising.
22:26
But if we go back up to the
22:26
platforms or the apps, it falls
22:33
pretty aligned with Apple
22:33
podcasts and Spotify, which it
22:39
just saying it goes to show like
22:39
how much the device type that
22:44
the person is using plays into
22:44
the app they're using to get
22:48
your content. And then that goes
22:48
down. The next section below
22:51
that is device type. And the
22:51
insane amount of people that
22:56
listen on mobile, which is
22:56
almost 90%. So to me, like as a
23:01
podcaster, that gives you a lot
23:01
of insight into how people are
23:05
consuming your content,
23:05
someone's listening on a phone,
23:08
that might mean, okay, they are
23:08
really using earbuds or air pods
23:12
or whatever. Or they're
23:12
listening in their car, which
23:15
means all of those weird little
23:15
sounds and plosives and whatever
23:19
and your audio production might
23:19
be a lot more prominent. So I'm
23:22
like, oh my god. Okay, that
23:22
means I need to really make sure
23:25
to tighten up the production
23:25
side of things.
23:29  Travis
Yeah, and one thing that
23:29
every once in a while, we'll get
23:33
this question, or we'll see it
23:33
pop up in these podcast
23:36
industry, Facebook groups, is
23:36
what about smart speakers? What
23:39
about Alexa devices? You know,
23:39
it seems like everyone and their
23:42
brother now has Amazon listening
23:42
to them. 24 seven to see when
23:47
they need more toilet paper. So
23:47
when are we going to see this
23:51
big bump in podcast listening on
23:51
Alexa devices? Well, right as of
23:57
October, then percentage of
23:57
plays that came from smart
24:01
speakers. So that would be both
24:01
Amazon Alexa devices. And you
24:06
know, anything else that be
24:06
categorized as a smart speaker
24:08
is point 3%. So, so still, like
24:08
even though it seems like this
24:15
is a voice first platform, it
24:15
makes sense that if someone's in
24:20
the house, doing chores,
24:20
whatever and they want to listen
24:23
to a podcast, they would throw
24:23
it on their, you know, Amazon
24:25
Echo. It's still such a small
24:25
portion of podcast plays. So I
24:32
mean, we'll see if this
24:32
eventually shifts, but at least
24:36
for right now, podcasting is
24:36
very much a mobile phone centric
24:40
experience.
24:42  Alban
Yeah, I think that's a
24:42
great point, Travis. So you can
24:44
kind of get twisted around the
24:44
axle a little bit trying to
24:47
figure out how do I make sure
24:47
that I'm optimized for Siri and
24:52
Alexa, and all these various
24:52
platforms. I mean, we actually
24:57
got an email from Apple recently
24:57
that we'll be in touch. about
25:00
this later in the show, but one
25:00
of the things that they did
25:02
include in there was how to
25:02
optimize for Siri, which is a
25:07
good thing to know. But you
25:07
don't want that to become your
25:10
focus, the thing that you should
25:10
be optimizing for are your
25:13
actual listeners, first of all,
25:13
and especially their experience
25:18
listening on mobile devices. So
25:18
a couple of the other sections
25:23
in here, you can see the top
25:23
countries and territories, this
25:27
is going to skew to English
25:27
speaking countries, not only
25:31
because English speaking
25:31
countries do listen to podcasts
25:34
more, but because Buzzsprout
25:34
itself is only an English. And
25:40
so I imagine if you're on a
25:40
podcast host that also was
25:43
translated into Spanish, that
25:43
you would get a lot more Spanish
25:46
speaking countries or into
25:46
Mandarin, like it just depends
25:50
on, you know, I think that this
25:50
is skewed because of Buzzsprout.
25:53
But 50% 51%, United States 6.5.
25:53
United Kingdom 5.3 in Canada,
26:02
4.3. In Australia, 2.8 in
26:02
Mexico, and 2.6. In the
26:08
Netherlands, which to my great
26:08
grandfather who immigrated from
26:13
Holland, you'd be proud of this?
26:13
Well, yeah, it's it kind of
26:16
gives you a little bit of a feel
26:16
for whether or not your podcast
26:20
is reaching more an
26:20
international audience, then
26:24
Buzzsprout podcasts on a whole.
26:26  Travis
Yeah. And I think the
26:26
statistic that most of our
26:30
listeners will be very
26:30
interested in, because we've
26:33
talked about it before on the
26:33
podcast, is I'm getting X number
26:36
of downloads, I have this many
26:36
episodes, Is that good? And
26:40
that's always how it's framed.
26:40
Is that good? Like, am I doing a
26:43
good job. And quite often people
26:43
think that the number of what a
26:46
good podcast is much larger than
26:46
than it actually is. They look
26:52
at, you know, maybe other
26:52
platforms like YouTube, where
26:54
you see these creators that have
26:54
millions of views on their
26:57
videos. And they think well, in
26:57
order to be a successful
27:00
podcast, I need that equivalent
27:00
metric. And they don't realize
27:05
kind of the the playing field is
27:05
different with podcasting. And
27:09
so if you go to this global
27:09
stats page, and you scroll all
27:12
the way to the bottom, you'll
27:12
see episode downloads within the
27:16
first seven days. And so this
27:16
statistic is representing when
27:21
you publish an episode, within
27:21
that first week that it's live.
27:25
How does your podcast episode
27:25
stack up against other podcasts
27:29
on Buzzsprout and the median
27:29
number, if we were measuring 100
27:34
podcasts, and we picked podcast
27:34
number 50. out is 28. So if your
27:39
podcast episode is getting more
27:39
than 28 downloads within the
27:44
first week of it being released,
27:44
you are in the top half of
27:49
podcasters on Buzzsprout.
27:51  Alban
And you can go actually
27:51
see this exact number in your
27:55
Buzzsprout dashboard. Our whole
27:55
goal with pulling out this
27:58
number was to give you one
27:58
that's very clear that you can
28:03
compare with your own stats,
28:03
we're trying to make sure that
28:06
you can see it as a one to one
28:06
comparison that if it's a daily
28:09
podcast, or you're publishing
28:09
once every two weeks, that
28:13
you're still able to do that
28:13
comparison, this is really
28:16
giving you an idea of how many
28:16
subscribers there are that you
28:20
can ever measure subscribers.
28:20
Um, this is gonna get pretty
28:24
close.
28:25  Travis
Yeah, and we would we
28:25
would call a subscriber somebody
28:27
who listens to every one of your
28:27
episodes. Which, you know, Tom
28:32
coming from the YouTube world
28:32
subscriber on YouTube doesn't
28:35
mean quite the same thing. No,
28:35
not at all.
28:37  Unknown
He's thinking like, oh,
28:37
wow, I got 40,000 subscribers,
28:41
every video is going to get at
28:41
least 40,000 views. And they
28:44
don't.
28:47  Travis
I mean, as, as someone
28:47
who spends a lot of time
28:49
creating videos for the
28:49
Buzzsprout YouTube channel, it
28:51
seems like the ones that are
28:51
like, really special to you that
28:55
you put extra heart into, like
28:55
nobody else appreciates. And
28:59
then it's like the throwaway one
28:59
where it's like, ah, I guess I
29:03
gotta, you know, publish an
29:03
episode on this Thursday. So
29:05
I'll just make a quick one. You
29:05
know, yes, throw it out there.
29:08
It's like that's the one that
29:08
goes nuts.
29:10  Unknown
For the longest time.
29:10
The most popular video on my
29:12
channel was a video that I made
29:12
from the time I have the idea to
29:17
the time it was uploaded was
29:17
under two hours. And it's like,
29:21
for over a year the most popular
29:21
video on my channel. And I made
29:25
that video while I like there's
29:25
another video I was making,
29:29
where in that video I go like
29:29
hey, I think I'm gonna make this
29:32
other video now and like so I
29:32
make the video in the video. And
29:36
the other video is when I put so
29:36
much effort into and I don't
29:39
even think it cracked like 1000
29:39
and then the one that was the
29:43
afterthought was literally like
29:43
the channel defining video for
29:47
like a year. So you never know.
29:51  Travis
You definitely don't.
29:52  Alban
So let's roll up this
29:52
list a little bit. I can go
29:55
through this one and maybe you
29:55
guys could do one of the next
29:57
two sections, top 25% If you get
29:57
73 plays in that first seven
30:03
days releasing something, you're
30:03
in the top 25% of podcasts, top
30:10
10% 231 place, you're in the top
30:10
5%. If you're getting 534 place,
30:20
and you're in the top 1% of all
30:20
podcasts on Buzzsprout. If your
30:25
podcast receives 3263 plays per
30:25
episode, whenever the episodes
30:33
been out for seven days, so all
30:33
these numbers grow over time, we
30:38
can definitely see on all of our
30:38
podcasts, older episodes are
30:42
often the largest, because
30:42
they've been around for a while
30:45
and more people can find them.
30:45
But this gives you a strict, you
30:49
know, really good comparison
30:49
point to your podcast. If you've
30:52
only been podcasting for a
30:52
couple months, and you're
30:57
starting to get close to that 28
30:57
number. Well, that's
31:00
exceptional. You know, I often
31:00
try to think of if these were
31:03
real people that you could see,
31:03
would you keep being excited to
31:07
do your podcast? And I can tell
31:07
you like if somebody asked me,
31:11
Hey, would you come talk about
31:11
marketing to this group of 28?
31:14
Well, I wouldn't do it now
31:14
because of COVID. But if
31:17
somebody said, come speak to
31:17
this group of 28 people and talk
31:22
to us about marketing, I would
31:22
show up every week, I would not
31:28
miss it. Especially if it took
31:28
me an hour to do it. And it was
31:32
an IT, I gave them an hour
31:32
content, I would show every
31:35
week. But there's something
31:35
about when it's on a podcast and
31:39
you see it as that number, not
31:39
as a person that it can get very
31:43
tempting to disregard it. And I
31:43
guess I should say all these
31:48
stats that we're quoting, are IB
31:48
certified and compliance stats.
31:53
So you can really compare these
31:53
to your Buzzsprout numbers. If
31:57
you're on another host, it may
31:57
be slightly different just due
32:00
to how they are measuring
32:00
everything.
32:03  Travis
So next, let's tackle
32:03
the episode duration. Because
32:06
that's another popular question
32:06
we get like, how long should my
32:08
episodes be? And the great thing
32:08
about podcasting is there are
32:13
basically no rules. I mean, so
32:13
the only rules you have to
32:16
follow are, if it's explicit,
32:16
you have to mark it as explicit.
32:20
But other than that, you know,
32:20
and adding a title to your
32:24
episode, you can literally do
32:24
whatever you want. But this is a
32:26
very common question. So we
32:26
wanted to give you the breakdown
32:28
of out of all the Buzzsprout
32:28
podcast where did the where do
32:31
they land. And so for the
32:31
shorter episodes, those less
32:35
than 10 minutes, that's about
32:35
12% of all the podcast episodes
32:41
that we see on Buzzsprout. And
32:41
then, as you could guess, 10 to
32:45
20 minutes would be a little
32:45
higher 14%. And then the large
32:50
majority, more than half of
32:50
podcasts fall either between 20
32:55
and 60 minutes. So 32% or 20 to
32:55
40 minutes, and then 24% or 40
33:01
to 60 minutes, and then the
33:01
super long ones over an hour, or
33:05
18%. And so you could say that
33:05
the average podcast episode on
33:11
Buzzsprout is somewhere around
33:11
the 30 minute mark. But that's
33:16
still less than a third. So it's
33:16
not like, Hey, this is the magic
33:21
number. If you have a 28 minute
33:21
32 second podcast, you will be
33:27
successful. But we did want you
33:27
just to see like the breakdown,
33:32
you know of kind of what the
33:32
episode durations look like,
33:35
Tom, when you're putting your
33:35
podcasts together, what do you
33:38
think about as far as how long
33:38
they should be?
33:41  Unknown
I that's where I go
33:41
back to thinking about myself as
33:44
a listener, because obviously
33:44
podcasts be any length, but I
33:48
know that for me and my
33:48
listening habits when I scroll
33:51
through and I see an episode
33:51
that's like 10 minutes long, I
33:54
usually don't listen to it.
33:54
Because when I listen, I use I'm
33:57
usually like doing something
33:57
where I want to kind of live in
34:01
that podcast world for a while.
34:01
And so I love it when episodes
34:06
are 45 minutes an hour, you
34:06
know, some are like two hours,
34:10
two hours. So I love kind of
34:10
longer episodes. So I try to
34:14
keep mine at about an hour. And
34:14
I found that that for me works
34:18
really well. It's manageable to
34:18
create seems like that's what
34:21
the people who are listening
34:21
enjoy it. This data is actually
34:27
very, like comforting to see
34:27
that kind of around that range.
34:31
Because sometimes all you know,
34:31
sometimes you just come up
34:34
short. You're like this
34:34
episode's 42 minutes, and I'm
34:36
like, I was too short. And I
34:36
know there's no right or wrong,
34:39
but it's nice to know like,
34:39
okay, now it's about the average
34:41
of what everybody else is doing.
34:41
Okay, I feel better. So the next
34:46
section, which is how often
34:46
episodes are published, is very
34:50
interesting because I think you
34:50
can put a lot of pressure on
34:53
yourself to try to keep up a
34:53
schedule or, you know, really
34:57
crank out the content and the
34:57
first time stat is every zero to
35:02
two days. So it's almost a daily
35:02
episode is only 7%. So not a
35:07
huge chunk of people are doing
35:07
nearly daily content, three to
35:13
seven days. So that's kind of
35:13
getting into that weekly range
35:15
is 40%. And then eight to 14
35:15
days is 38%. So between those
35:22
three days to 14 days, basically
35:22
one episode every week or two is
35:26
78% of podcasts, which is, I it
35:26
makes me happy to see that
35:32
because I feel like that's such
35:32
a manageable for the average
35:35
person, that's a manageable
35:35
production workload. But then we
35:38
jumped down to 15 to 29 days is
35:38
14%. And episodes published
35:45
every you know, once every 30
35:45
days is 1%. So very few people
35:50
doing that.
35:50  Alban
And one of the reasons
35:50
for that is if you go much more
35:54
than 30 days, I'm not exactly
35:54
sure what the number is, then we
35:57
probably wouldn't consider you
35:57
an active podcaster. And so
36:02
you'd probably drop off of this
36:02
list. But this kind of makes
36:05
sense that you know that seven
36:05
days is what we actually
36:08
recommend, because it helps you
36:08
get in a regular cadence. It
36:13
helps your listeners know when
36:13
to expect your podcasts you
36:16
start fitting into their lives.
36:16
I mean, Tom said earlier, if he
36:20
missed a week, people write and
36:20
say, I was ready for my Monday
36:23
podcast and Where was it? It's
36:23
because I have podcasts that
36:28
especially when I had a commute,
36:28
I was like, This is my Monday
36:31
morning commute podcast, this is
36:31
my Thursday night coming back,
36:35
because it would always release
36:35
by the time I was, you know,
36:38
ready to drive home. And it's
36:38
really nice to have some of
36:42
those podcasts he can like look
36:42
forward to through the week,
36:45
especially as you really learn
36:45
to love them. So I really like
36:49
those weekly podcasts and then
36:49
seeing the eight to 14 days.
36:53
Well, that gets the semi weekly
36:53
podcasts. And the people who
36:57
miss sometimes. So maybe their
36:57
average is like nine days, it's
37:02
just because they're publishing
37:02
weekly, but they every once in a
37:05
while miss one. So they fall in
37:05
that category to 78%. It makes
37:10
me very happy to see most people
37:10
are landing three quarters,
37:14
people are landing, either in
37:14
once a week or twice a week,
37:18
just kind of where they're, you
37:18
know, their release schedule.
37:21  Unknown
Yeah, those are those
37:21
are exciting numbers, because I
37:23
did just want to point out too,
37:23
that, at least on YouTube, one
37:26
of the questions I get all the
37:26
time is, you know, how often do
37:29
I need to be uploading for
37:29
YouTube to like, you know, help
37:34
me or, you know, for people to
37:34
find my thing. And at least in
37:37
the YouTube world, it really
37:37
doesn't matter the way that it
37:40
used to anymore. And you'll see
37:40
and you're recommended on
37:43
YouTube, like, you'll get videos
37:43
from 10 years ago that suddenly
37:46
it just thinks you need to watch
37:46
that video now based on your
37:48
history. And when it comes to
37:48
podcasting and stuff, I kind of
37:52
think that it's the same, I
37:52
don't think there's a magic
37:55
thing where I have done four
37:55
episodes this month. So now
37:57
Apple is just gonna promote the
37:57
heck out on my podcast. I think
38:01
though, kind of what we just
38:01
touched on, it's more about you
38:06
as the creator, getting into the
38:06
rhythm where making the thing is
38:10
a part of your life. And then
38:10
equally as important, it becomes
38:14
a part of other people's lives
38:14
if they, you know, if they're
38:17
just sort of randomly getting
38:17
these episodes, they never know
38:20
when they're going to show up.
38:20
That's not going to let it
38:22
become a routine where they do
38:22
expect this day, I can listen to
38:26
this podcast at the gym, when
38:26
gyms are open or on a commute
38:29
when I had a computer, whatever,
38:29
but it needs to fit into
38:33
people's lives. And I think when
38:33
you're just starting out, or
38:36
maybe when your numbers are not
38:36
as big as you expect them to be,
38:39
that feels presumptuous for you
38:39
to think that I'm going to make
38:42
a podcast that's going to be
38:42
part of someone's life. But you
38:45
absolutely can. And it
38:45
absolutely will become that and
38:48
they're not care. They're not
38:48
digging into your statistics and
38:51
going like, Hmm, this isn't in
38:51
the top 50% of Buzzsprout
38:54
podcast, so I shouldn't be
38:54
listening to it. They just want
38:58
they just want the thing that
38:58
you're making if it lands with
39:00
them. And the only way that they
39:00
can find it is if you just keep
39:04
kind of consistently making out
39:04
so long story extra long I, I
39:08
always recommend that people
39:08
have consistent schedules, not
39:11
for the platform or an algorithm
39:11
or anything but for themselves
39:14
and the community that they're
39:14
building around it.
39:16  Travis
Yep. So if you want to
39:16
dig more into these stats, we'll
39:18
leave a link in the show notes
39:18
for this episode. And if you
39:22
check back in the beginning of
39:22
December, you also be able to
39:24
see the November stats. So
39:24
you'll be able to compare how
39:28
podcasting is growing or how
39:28
apps are moving around month to
39:32
month. And this will be
39:32
something that we update on a
39:35
monthly basis. So you can kind
39:35
of keep track of how the podcast
39:38
industry as a whole is shifting,
39:38
as you know and be able to see
39:42
kind of how you're doing in the
39:42
grand scheme of things. So Apple
39:47
just sent a lovely email to all
39:47
the podcasters that have a
39:51
podcast on Apple, Tom, I'm sure
39:51
that you got this email as well.
39:55
Oh yes, talking about their
39:55
beautiful, wonderfully designed.
39:59
I'm trying Think of all my Tim
39:59
Cook words, a embed player, that
40:04
magical magical Yes, it just
40:04
works. It's like magic, courage,
40:08
a new, a new embedded player
40:08
that allows you to embed your
40:13
Apple podcasts listed podcast on
40:13
your website. So when you go
40:20
through a podcast hosts like
40:20
Buzzsprout, or to my knowledge,
40:23
basically every other podcast
40:23
host, they give you some code
40:28
that you can drop on your
40:28
website to allow people to
40:31
listen to your podcast directly
40:31
on the internet, as opposed to
40:35
going into an app to your
40:35
podcast. Well, now Apple has
40:38
come out with their own embed
40:38
player that you could use if you
40:41
wanted to, on your own podcast
40:41
website. So just looking at this
40:45
NBA player, what are your just
40:45
initial impressions of kind of
40:50
the design and the layout? And
40:50
how they how they put it
40:52
together?
40:53  Alban
Yeah, I'd start with
40:53
saying like, I think this is
40:55
truly an answer to Spotify as
40:55
embed player, we'll talk about
41:00
the big drawback that these have
41:00
in a second, I'm sure. But
41:03
Spotify was pushed off, maybe
41:03
now. It's an answer to the
41:07
Spotify embed player because
41:07
Spotify started saying, Hey, why
41:12
don't you put this nice looking
41:12
player on your sites, it's got a
41:15
nice Spotify logo. The one big
41:15
downside to it was your podcasts
41:21
had to be on Spotify to get it.
41:21
And to when people click
41:25
Subscribe, it says, Well, you
41:25
know, the only place to
41:28
subscribe to Spotify, right? And
41:28
then it only open Spotify apps.
41:32
So I mean, we just talked to
41:32
these platforms, stats, and
41:37
Spotify is only a quarter of all
41:37
podcasts. Listen, so for three
41:41
quarters of your listeners, that
41:41
stunk, you know, now they have
41:45
to go and try to figure out what
41:45
to how to find your podcast. And
41:49
now Apple said, Alright, well,
41:49
if people are going to do this,
41:53
if they're going to be putting
41:53
Spotify players, they might as
41:56
well be doing an apple player.
41:56
And we're Apple, we can make
42:00
stuff that looks beautiful. That
42:00
works really well. We know more
42:04
than anyone It feels like about
42:04
podcasting. And so they made
42:07
this player. Um, they too have
42:07
added in the same limitation,
42:12
which makes sense, obviously,
42:12
for these companies, but they
42:14
say, Oh, I mean, this is very
42:14
Apple esque thing. It's like,
42:19
Oh, we we weren't aware that
42:19
other people had podcast apps,
42:22
because they're like, the best,
42:22
the best way to listen to a
42:25
podcast is on Apple podcasts, on
42:25
your Mac, you know, maybe on
42:29
your iPhone, maybe on your iPad.
42:29
And so it just pops up in the
42:33
apps directly. So that's a big
42:33
drawback for this. But yeah,
42:38
sorry to hijack that question,
42:38
Travis. I mean, what do you guys
42:41
think of the design?
42:42  Unknown
I mean, it's a Delta
42:42
that kind of jump in there,
42:45
apple, apples design, you know,
42:45
I'm a fan. I appreciate it. But
42:53
it does kind of it bumps up
42:53
against this question that I've
42:57
had, when it comes to embed
42:57
players is I've been actually
43:01
wanting an apple one in the past
43:01
because that is where most
43:04
people listen. And it's where I
43:04
listen to my podcasts and and
43:07
that kind of stuff. But I have
43:07
always had the question of what
43:10
about the people who don't
43:10
listen on Apple? What when
43:14
someone goes on Android device
43:14
to your website, and others as a
43:18
player, yeah, they can stream it
43:18
from your site, but there's
43:21
nothing they can click to open
43:21
it on their device. And it I
43:28
don't know if this is the
43:28
question or not, but it kind of
43:29
highlights the importance of
43:29
importance to me, at least of
43:32
having a player that not only
43:32
lets you play it from your site,
43:35
but also lets them then choose
43:35
where they want to then go get
43:39
more of your show or, you know,
43:39
then click the little subscribe
43:43
notification button. Because I
43:43
might be going way off topic
43:48
here. If so I apologize. But
43:48
I've been using I speak
43:51
passionately because I've been
43:51
using the Buzzsprout player on
43:54
my website for a while now, for
43:54
all three podcasts. I have a
43:57
podcast page, three podcasts,
43:57
each one has a player. And up
44:02
until recently, one of my
44:02
podcasts was on anchor. And
44:05
there was Buzzsprout. And it
44:05
bothered me and I even told
44:08
Kevin this when he and I first
44:08
connected, I was like the
44:10
Buzzsprout player looks so nice
44:10
and is so functional. And the
44:13
anchor player like does not look
44:13
the same. It's not as great.
44:16
It's it's very OneNote. It's you
44:16
can listen to this one episode
44:20
on this one platform right here
44:20
at the end. Whereas the
44:23
Buzzsprout one that I'm using,
44:23
you can kind of scroll through,
44:25
you can see a bunch of episodes,
44:25
you can customize the color, so
44:28
it matches like the layout of my
44:28
site, exactly how I wanted it.
44:32
And then there's a little button
44:32
you can click. And not only do
44:35
you have apple and Spotify but
44:35
you can scroll through and like
44:39
all the new mentioned overcast
44:39
that's like right there fourth
44:42
on the list. So if even though
44:42
that's only 1.4 or 5% of people
44:47
listening, they can still in two
44:47
clicks get to their platform of
44:52
choice and that to me like that
44:52
openness, that versatility is
44:56
hugely valuable. So the design
44:56
is great. I don't think But the
45:00
functionality is quite there.
45:00
From what I at least one on my
45:04
website.
45:06  Travis
Yeah. And I see this is,
45:06
you know, in addition to kind of
45:08
answering the Spotify embed
45:08
player when they released that
45:13
this is almost like the next
45:13
step from when Apple fixed, you
45:17
know, the viewing a podcast in a
45:17
web browser page, which used to
45:22
be terrible, like it used to be
45:22
completely non functional. And
45:26
then they're like, well, what if
45:26
we took like a super light
45:28
version of the apple podcast
45:28
app, and formatted it to look
45:32
nice in a web browser, and you
45:32
could click a button to open the
45:35
actual podcast app. That's kind
45:35
of what this is. But for your
45:40
website, so the functionality is
45:40
the same, you can see, you know,
45:44
the recent episodes, you can
45:44
click to start listening to one,
45:48
you can't see the show notes.
45:48
For these episodes, there's, you
45:53
know, so you can only see like
45:53
the four or five most recent,
45:56
and then if you want to see all
45:56
the episodes you have, you have
45:59
to click a button that opens the
45:59
podcast and Apple podcasts. So
46:03
it's almost like a preview of
46:03
your podcast in Apple podcasts
46:08
with some limited playing
46:08
functionality. So if you're
46:12
thinking about should I use this
46:12
embed player or my Buzzsprout
46:15
embed player? Definitely you use
46:15
your Buzzsprout embed player,
46:19  Alban
as long as the guy who
46:19
runs the Buzzsprout YouTube
46:21
channel tells you.
46:23  Travis
That's right until I
46:23
changed my my tune.
46:26  Alban
Jobs. Can I correct
46:26
something? Yes. It does have
46:30
show notes.
46:31  Travis
Oh, it does have show
46:31
notes.
46:32  Alban
Yeah, you just have to
46:32
click on an episode. And then it
46:35
would start playing it on the
46:35
side. And when you do that, it
46:39
has the show notes right there.
46:41  Travis
Yes, but they're not
46:41
formatted. And they're not
46:44
formatted. You get a preview of
46:44
the show notes. You don't get
46:46
all the show notes.
46:47  Alban
You get a preview. Yeah,
46:47
maybe like the first hundred
46:50
words of the shownotes. It does
46:50
drop the formatting, which is a
46:54
bummer. I mean, I'll be honest,
46:54
if Apple podcasts was still the
46:57
90%, I would be very, very
46:57
tempted to use this. Let's say
47:03
if we talked about all these
47:03
people who have Apple podcasts.
47:06
I think if you are one of the
47:06
people who your podcast is about
47:09
Apple, you probably should be
47:09
using this because yeah, your
47:13
listeners are almost all on
47:13
Apple devices, or you're
47:17
probably kind of proselytizing
47:17
anyway. And you're trying to get
47:20
people to move to Apple. So this
47:20
is a good way to do it. Yeah, I
47:23
mean, it looks, I think it looks
47:23
great. I don't want to say too
47:26
much negative, except that it is
47:26
tough to recommend something
47:29
when it's going to be a pretty
47:29
rough experience for someone
47:34
who's not on Apple. But it does
47:34
have some good features like
47:38
it's if people have dark mode
47:38
selected on their, their device,
47:42
it switches into dark mode for
47:42
them. It's responsive so that it
47:46
works on mobile devices. And on
47:46
desktop, it looks really pretty
47:53
and it will match, you know that
47:53
Apple aesthetic. So it's got all
47:57
that going for it. And obviously
47:57
it's going to be updating, you
48:00
know, this is similar to the
48:00
Buzzsprout player, it updates
48:02
when you add a new episode, it's
48:02
going to be there right on the
48:06
top. And so you don't have to
48:06
think, oh, after I publish, I go
48:11
back and re update my site, this
48:11
will update for you
48:15
automatically.
48:16  Travis
Yeah. And then when you
48:16
go to the page, where you can
48:20
get the code for the apple
48:20
podcasts and bed player, they
48:24
also provide some other things
48:24
that are actually really
48:27
helpful. So one is you can
48:27
generate a short link that links
48:31
to your podcasts and Apple
48:31
podcasts. So if you're sharing
48:34
links, I mean, this is this is
48:34
something that, you know, unless
48:38
you physically take someone's
48:38
phone, open Apple podcasts and
48:41
subscribe to it. It's like how
48:41
do you text someone to link to
48:44
your podcast, especially if you
48:44
don't have like a dedicated
48:47
website, if you know they have
48:47
an apple iphone, you can get
48:49
this short link, then just save
48:49
it in a note and you can send it
48:53
to people to help promote your
48:53
show. And then they also give
48:56
you the badges like the thing
48:56
that says listen on Apple
48:59
podcasts, they give you the app
48:59
icon, even a QR code. So you can
49:03
have a QR code on a business
49:03
card. And people can you know,
49:08
scroll over it with their their
49:08
phone and it'll open your show
49:11
on Apple podcasts on their
49:11
phone. So there's some cool,
49:14
like additional assets and
49:14
resources for helping people
49:19
find your show on Apple
49:19
podcasts. And so if you find
49:22
yourself consistently promoting
49:22
your show to iPhone, listen,
49:25
users and Apple podcast
49:25
listeners, then these could be
49:29
some really great resources to
49:29
include on your website, on your
49:32
social media platforms and those
49:32
kind of things. What's the final
49:35
word on the apple podcast
49:35
player? Well, I
49:38  Alban
mean, I could answer this
49:38
who's it for, in my mind, anyone
49:41
who's using the Spotify player.
49:41
And you do not have a podcast
49:45
that has a contractual
49:45
relationship with Spotify. I
49:49
would switch over to this and
49:49
the people that I know who are
49:51
using Spotify player, mostly
49:51
podcasters who I think they're
49:56
on hosts that don't have a good
49:56
player and so they just wants
50:00
Something that looks really
50:00
good. And I think this looks
50:02
better than the Spotify one,
50:02
it's got, you know, Spotify is
50:07
half the size of Apple as far as
50:07
listeners. So now you've made a
50:11
better experience for a lot more
50:11
listeners, though I still, in my
50:15
mind, I would still recommend
50:15
moving to a host, they had a
50:19
player that was platform
50:19
agnostic. Or, if you like the
50:24
host you're on, you could use
50:24
something like a third party
50:26
player, like fuse box, fuse
50:26
box.fm, I believe. And that has
50:31
a lot more functionality. Just
50:31
because you want to make it as
50:36
easy as possible for people to
50:36
click that subscribe button, and
50:39
bam, be subscribed to your
50:39
podcast, any bit of friction we
50:43
put in there is going to reduce
50:43
the number of times that people
50:47
do click through to your
50:47
podcast.
50:52  Travis
So in the last episode
50:52
of Buzzcast, we did a lot of
50:55
listener questions. And there
50:55
was one that we wanted to
50:58
answer. But Alvin had a good
50:58
idea, which was instead of us
51:03
speculating on what the answer
51:03
is, let's go right to the
51:06
source. So Alvin, why don't you
51:06
talk about the conversation that
51:09
you had with the the creator of
51:09
listen notes. Alright, so
51:12  Alban
we got a question from
51:12
Jordan, listen, notes just
51:15
released Listen, score and
51:15
global rank. And she was a
51:19
little confused on how that all
51:19
is determined, and just wanted
51:24
to talk to it. So I actually,
51:24
for a long time, have useless
51:28
and notes. And I feel like I've
51:28
connected to women a few times.
51:34
And so we got him on the line.
51:34
And I just want to ask you some
51:37
questions. A little bit about
51:37
what listen notes is and how
51:42
you're doing all this. So could
51:42
you just tell me, what is listen
51:46
notes.
51:47  Wenbin
Hi, everyone. Hi,
51:47
Jordan. These are nauseas
51:52
podcast, search engine and
51:52
database. You can think about
51:55
your IMDb for podcast. So IMDb
51:55
is a database for movies,
52:02
listeners is a database for
52:02
podcasts. We have a website
52:07
designer Comm. You can go to
52:07
website and then search podcast,
52:11
search podcast episodes, like
52:11
how you use Google. We also
52:14
provide an API for developers.
52:14
So developers want to build a
52:20
podcast app or website, and they
52:20
can use our API to access to the
52:25
polocrosse database.
52:26  Alban
That's awesome. I use
52:26
listen notes, because one of the
52:29
really nice features you have is
52:29
you do a much better job at
52:33
search than almost anybody else.
52:33
And so if I want to learn about
52:37
a particular thing, especially
52:37
when I want to learn about a
52:40
author in a book that she or he
52:40
is written, I can search their
52:46
name. And it's not like they the
52:46
name doesn't have to be in the
52:50
title, it could just be in the
52:50
transcript and other places. So
52:54
you're able to pull back much
52:54
better episode recommendations
52:58
than I think anybody else on the
52:58
web.
53:01  Unknown
Thank you easily
53:01
descent knows it was a side
53:04
project of mine, and I wanted to
53:04
search episodes. So you was
53:09
early 2017. Back then I couldn't
53:09
find a good tool to search
53:14
episodes. So most podcasts
53:14
require you to subscribe to
53:19
podcasts first, and then find
53:19
episodes to listen. But I listen
53:24
to tons of podcasts. I don't
53:24
want to subscribe to one another
53:28
podcast. So yeah, I wanted this
53:28
to so I believe as a side
53:33
project. And now I've been
53:33
working on it full time for
53:36
three years.
53:37  Alban
That's awesome. I really
53:37
love it. Because you have a
53:40
really small team, it's you. And
53:40
I know you've you've kind of
53:43
worked with some other people.
53:43
But it's super awesome to see
53:46
people who are kind of forging
53:46
their own path in the podcasting
53:50
industry, and providing
53:50
something totally different. I
53:53
feel like everybody else is too
53:53
afraid because they think maybe
53:56
Google will come do it someday
53:56
maybe somebody else will try to
53:59
steal my thunder, and you just
53:59
cruising on and making it better
54:04
and better every year. One of
54:04
the things you just launched. So
54:07
let's talk about George
54:07
question. The listen score and
54:10
global rank. What are these?
54:13  Unknown
Yeah, so this score is
54:13
basically a simple numeric value
54:18
to estimate the popularity of
54:18
podcasts. You can think of it
54:23
like Nielsen ratings. So they
54:23
Nielsen ratings about TV and
54:29
then we barely call it one a
54:29
simple way to get a rough sense
54:35
how popular podcast is. And the
54:35
and the radio is, is ranging
54:41
from zero to 100. The higher the
54:41
more popular. Yeah, and the
54:47
global rank is basically to rank
54:47
based on this end score.
54:51  Alban
So what I'm what I look
54:51
at right now for Buzzcast, which
54:56
will put this interview on
54:56
Buzzcast Buzzcast listener score
55:01
is 41. And that's out of zero to
55:01
100. Yes, yes. And what's going
55:07
into that score.
55:09  Unknown
So basically, we
55:09
develop a mathematical model to
55:14
calculate the score, based on
55:14
first party data and third party
55:19
data by first party data ID and
55:19
like website activities, you can
55:25
imagine people come to our site
55:25
to search, to listen to
55:31
podcasts, play episodes, browse
55:31
pages, so we can get pageviews.
55:38
And then people at podcast to
55:38
playlist, create clips, things
55:42
like that. And by third party
55:42
data, basically open web data,
55:48
like media benches. If polycast
55:48
is mentioned, by New York Times,
55:53
Washington Post, a bunch of
55:53
online media, this podcast is
55:57
probably very popular, right?
55:57
Also a podcast could be been
56:02
sent on social media, right? So
56:02
these days, our open web data,
56:07
anyone can look at the data,
56:07
Corolla data, and then do some
56:12
transformation and case by case
56:12
basis to count how many times
56:18
this product has been sent.
56:18
Also, there are websites that
56:23
you can find reviews, ratings,
56:23
items, and other size. So this
56:28
kind of data we also use. Yeah,
56:28
there are a bunch of other
56:33
signals, we couldn't reveal too
56:33
much. Because we don't want
56:38
people to gain the system. Also,
56:38
we we would tend to the air, we
56:43
then we would use different
56:43
data, different signals, or we
56:48
would remove certain signals our
56:48
calculation in the future.
56:53
Right. So this is called
56:53
actually it is for quite a while
56:57
we've been using this score
56:57
internally, for our search
57:01
ranking, is one of the ranking
57:01
signal we use is kind of like
57:06
PageRank, or domain authority in
57:06
SEO. Right? How do they
57:13
calculate this kind of number?
57:13
Well, also, they also take many
57:17
signals on the open web.
57:19  Alban
So what we're doing is
57:19
you're kind of combining things
57:22
you can see on other sites
57:22
you're combining. How often
57:26
things happen on your site.
57:26
people search for that podcast,
57:28
though. Yeah, podcast is a good
57:28
fit. For some of the search
57:31
results. Maybe people are
57:31
clicking or adding it to
57:34
playlists, things like that.
57:34
Yeah. Um, so what is a good
57:39
score? I mean, one of our
57:39
podcasts is Buzzcast has a
57:44
listen score of 41. The other
57:44
one has a listen score of 50.
57:49
How good is that?
57:51  Unknown
That's pretty good.
57:51
Because most more most podcasts,
57:55
current score beyond 20. Okay,
57:55
something either. Yeah, so
58:01
absolute value, doesn't matter.
58:01
The match is a relative score,
58:06
you need to compare with other
58:06
score other podcasts in your
58:10
same domain. Now, you are a post
58:10
pawlikowski company. Okay. You
58:16
may you may look at other
58:16
podcasting companies, podcast,
58:20
right. Compare we said, Yeah,
58:23  Alban
okay. And then global
58:23
rank, I think they're very
58:26
related, right? global rank is
58:26
just giving you a percentile for
58:31
your listen score. So it's,
58:31
could you explain a little bit
58:34
more about that? They'll just
58:34
tell you like, compared to 100,
58:38
podcasters, you're probably in
58:38
the top 50 percentile or
58:42
whatever percentile?
58:43  Unknown
Yeah, we simply link by
58:43
distance goal. And if we just
58:50
talk to one, European 1%, then
58:50
you do point 1% out of 1.7
58:58
million podcast, globally.
58:58
Awesome.
59:01  Alban
So yeah, so how to start
59:01
a podcast is a top 1% right now
59:06
and then, like Buzzcast, 2%,
59:06
yet?
59:10  Unknown
We only we only sold a
59:10
top 10%. Okay, for top, top, top
59:18
10% and podcasts for now. was
59:18
most podcasts. Well, if you if
59:25
we, you know, in top 10% maybe
59:25
you don't want to know your
59:28
ranking.
59:30  Alban
Yeah. And if it's pretty
59:30
low, then probably there's a Oh,
59:34
so if I look at like the daily
59:34
it actually goes beyond that. It
59:36
says top point. Oh, 1%.
59:39  Wenbin
Yeah, yeah. It's a
59:39
pretty cool euro is one of the
59:43
most
59:45  Alban
well, that's super
59:45
interesting. What should people
59:47
do if they want to improve their
59:47
listening score? Is there any
59:51
benefit to improving their
59:51
listen score beyond looking good
59:54
on listen notes,
59:55  Unknown
okay. My eyesight would
59:55
disappoint you don't don't try
59:59
to improve Throw your distance
59:59
goal is focus on creating good
1:00:03
content. Okay, grow your
1:00:03
audience. Because we don't we
1:00:07
don't want people to gain the
1:00:07
system. This score is also used
1:00:11
in our ranking editor, right? If
1:00:11
you artificially increase the
1:00:16
score, maybe you're doing a
1:00:16
pretty high, you know, ethos, so
1:00:22  Alban
please don't do it. Okay,
1:00:22
so you heard it here. First, do
1:00:25
not try to improve your
1:00:25
listening score beyond doing
1:00:27
anything, except just grow your
1:00:27
audience by putting out great
1:00:31
content. Yeah, um, well, if
1:00:31
people want to learn more about
1:00:35
listen notes, and especially
1:00:35
these two new things that you've
1:00:38
launched, where should they go?
1:00:38
And is there anything you'd
1:00:41
recommend them to read?
1:00:43  Unknown
Yeah, so we have a
1:00:43
blog. So these are notes comm
1:00:47
slash blog. So you can you can
1:00:47
read some articles, behind the
1:00:52
scenes, how we operate this and
1:00:52
knows, and some of my very
1:00:57
opinionated point of views?
1:00:57
Well,
1:01:01  Alban
I've seen I've always
1:01:01
followed you on Twitter. So I've
1:01:04
seen a little bit of it, and I
1:01:04
love it. Okay, we need more
1:01:07
people with opinions that are
1:01:07
informed by actually working in
1:01:12
digs. I think it's great. Well,
1:01:12
thank you so much for joining
1:01:15
me. And hopefully, we get you
1:01:15
back on the podcast sometime
1:01:18
soon.
1:01:19  Wenbin
So thank you.
1:01:23  Travis
Well, Tom, thank you so
1:01:23
much for hopping on squad cast
1:01:26
with us today and contributing
1:01:26
to the show. I know a lot of
1:01:29
people appreciated your
1:01:29
perspective. Where can people
1:01:32
find you online? where's the
1:01:32
best place to connect with you?
1:01:34
Yeah,
1:01:35  Unknown
thanks again, so much
1:01:35
for having me. The best place to
1:01:37
find me is youtube.com slash Tom
1:01:37
buck. Or you could just visit my
1:01:42
website, which is Hi, my name is
1:01:42
tom.com. And that URL makes me
1:01:47
laugh every time.
1:01:49  Travis
That's phenomenal.
1:01:49
That's like, what was it? When
1:01:52
everybody signed up for MySpace
1:01:52
and you get your first friend?
1:01:54  Unknown
Do you know how often
1:01:54
from 2006 to 2008? Every time I
1:01:59
introduced myself to someone to
1:01:59
be Hi, I'm Tom, they would say
1:02:02
my space Tom. flashbacks every
1:02:02
time I hear that. Like, I'm
1:02:07  Travis
surprised that he hasn't
1:02:07
reached out and asked to buy the
1:02:09
domain from you.
1:02:10  Tom
True. I mean, he's got the
1:02:10
money for it.
1:02:14  Travis
So yeah, so Hi, my name
1:02:14
is Tom calm and our call to
1:02:17
action at the end of the
1:02:17
episode. Rather than going and
1:02:19
checking out our YouTube
1:02:19
channel, click the link to go
1:02:22
and check out Tom's YouTube
1:02:22
channel. He just did a great
1:02:24
review on the new shore MV
1:02:24
seven, which he was rocking
1:02:27
today in this episode, with a
1:02:27
slight modification, which I
1:02:31
imagine you may or may not see
1:02:31
in a future episode on his
1:02:33
channel.
1:02:34  Unknown
Yeah, it's a the
1:02:34
plosives This is a great
1:02:37
sounding microphone, but the
1:02:37
plosives are a huge problem. And
1:02:42
I put the windscreen from the SM
1:02:42
seven B on it, which actually
1:02:47
almost like it works. I mean, it
1:02:47
fixes the post problem. It just
1:02:51
looks a little janky but it's
1:02:51
not too bad. But it makes the
1:02:55
mic so much more usable. So
1:02:55
yeah, go check that out. And I'm
1:02:58
sure that will pop up in future
1:02:58
videos as well. Awesome. Well,
1:03:01  Travis
thanks again for your
1:03:01
time. That's it for us for
1:03:03
today. And as always keep
1:03:03
podcasting