Buzzcast

Buzzcast is a roundtable discussion about podcasting from the people at Buzzsprout. We'll cover current events and news, podcast strategy, tools we are using, and dip into the Customer Support mailbag to test our podcasting knowledge. If you want to stay up-to-date on what's working in podcasting, Buzzcast is the show for you.

https://buzzcast.buzzsprout.com/

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episode 36: Buzzcast Q&A - Fan Question Edition [transcript]


In this episode, we answer listener questions gathered from the Buzzsprout Podcast Community Facebook group. (Check the Chapter Markers to jump to a specific question)

Email sales@podlp.com if you're interested in running paid ads on PodLP to promote your podcast.

Subscribe to the Buzzsprout YouTube channel to watch gear reviews, software tutorials, and podcast strategy videos.

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Buzzsprout's Dynamic Content tool now allows you to save multiple clips in your Dynamic Content Library and track how many downloads each clip receives. Learn more on our New Features page.


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 2020-10-09  55m
 
 
00:00  Alban
Alright, I have now
00:00
started my recording because
00:02
Kevin has predicted absolute
00:02
fire content was his exact
00:06
words. I'm shocked you
00:07  Kevin
said that. I was just
00:07
thinking that walking in here.
00:11
However, we
00:12  Alban
all be honest if anyone
00:12
ever says this is fire content,
00:15
I'm like, Yeah, like a dumpster
00:15
fire of content. There's no way
00:18
it's
00:19  Kevin
something doesn't matter
00:19
what type of fire it is, as long
00:21
as it's fire.
00:22  Alban
I'm telling you like
00:22
Sarah Canuck has never kicked
00:24
off an episode of cereal like,
00:24
bro, this is absolute fire
00:27
content if you have to smash the
00:27
subscribe button right away.
00:34  Travis
Alban, we got a lot of
00:34
really great questions from our
00:37
Facebook group, the Buzzsprout
00:37
podcast community about things
00:41
that we should talk about on
00:41
Buzzcast. What was one question
00:43
that really caught your
00:43
attention that you think would
00:45
be good to address
00:47  Alban
I like they were
00:47
pretending as if these questions
00:49
came in of their own accord,
00:50  Travis
you said no signposting.
00:50
I'm providing zero context to
00:54
this episode as requested.
00:57  Kevin
So the guy takes the
00:57
garlis of how we got here,
00:59
here's where we're at.
01:00  Alban
Here's where we're at. We
01:00
got a bunch of questions. Maybe
01:02
Travis asked you guys if there
01:02
were some questions you wanted
01:05
to know about. But we've got
01:05
them. And there were actually a
01:08
ton of really good ones. So I've
01:08
got my first question. Ready to
01:12
go. Lisa dropped a great
01:12
question. How do we use all the
01:16
tools available on Buzzsprout?
01:16
Sharing links on multiple
01:19
platforms? Best way to spread
01:19
the link? And so I'm hearing
01:24
there is we're trying to get a
01:24
lot of people to know you're
01:28
trying to get your link out
01:28
there. You want to share it on
01:30
social you want to share
01:30
newsletter? What's the best way
01:35
to get that out to the world? So
01:35
what do you what do you guys
01:37
think?
01:39  Kevin
Best way to share your
01:39
episode link? I would go to I
01:43
would share your Buzzsprout
01:43
site. Yeah, for sure. That's
01:46
where I'd start. Now. If you
01:46
have your own website all set
01:48
up, and you embed episodes and
01:48
you create a blog post or a new
01:50
post for every episode that you
01:50
do. That is a totally fine link
01:53
to share. The reality is that
01:53
the majority of people probably
01:57
don't have that yet. So if
01:57
you're not there, and you're
02:00
asking this question, what link
02:00
should I send, I'm going to go
02:02
ahead make the assumption that
02:02
you'll have your own website. So
02:04
in lieu of having your own
02:04
website, I would show your
02:06
Buzzsprout link, because it has
02:06
a homepage for your episodes,
02:11
and then an individual page for
02:11
each episode, and all the
02:14
subscribe buttons for all the
02:14
directories that you could
02:15
possibly be in. In addition to
02:15
that, if you use additional
02:18
tools like transcript tools, and
02:18
chapter marker tools, all that
02:21
stuff is available there as
02:21
well. Now, one thing that a lot
02:24
of people don't recognize right
02:24
away when starting with
02:26
Buzzsprout, is that you can
02:26
customize that URL, it doesn't
02:28
have to be buzzsprout.com slash
02:28
a number, it can be like Michael
02:32
podcast.buzzsprout.com. And the
02:32
way that you do that is you log
02:36
in to your account, and you
02:36
click on website, and then click
02:38
on Change URL, and you can
02:38
customize your Buzzsprout
02:41
website address.
02:42  Alban
I think that's a really
02:42
good point on, you want to have
02:46
one link you share for every
02:46
individual episode. So every
02:50
episodes, you only get one
02:50
shared link, and that link
02:53
optimally is giving you link, in
02:53
turn linking out to all the
02:57
directories, we want to have one
02:57
place that you control, you're
03:02
trying to get as many people to
03:02
go there. And that should either
03:04
be your Buzzsprout site, or it
03:04
should be your own personal
03:07
homepage, if you have both share
03:07
your personal homepage where all
03:11
this lifts. And that's where
03:11
you're going to put show notes
03:15
and transcripts and links to
03:15
every app. And that's the one
03:19
that you should share. One thing
03:19
to watch out for, do not share
03:23
your admin link, we actually see
03:23
this, Kevin, I think you
03:27
actually built something a
03:27
workaround for people. But
03:30
sometimes people share the URL
03:30
like when they're logged into
03:33
their account. And the downside
03:33
there is somebody else would
03:36
have to log into your account to
03:36
actually see that page so they
03:40
don't see anything. And we just
03:40
made it ourselves so that now we
03:44
actually on the login page, have
03:44
a link to your website. So we
03:48
try to save those just make sure
03:48
if you're sharing a link on
03:51
Buzzsprout. And when you do that
03:51
a little image pops up that says
03:55
login. That's not the right
03:55
link.
03:58  Kevin
Yeah, test your like
03:58
before you send it. That way to
04:00
grab the right link to share
04:00
when you're logged into
04:02
Buzzsprout without having to log
04:02
out is to click on your episode,
04:05
and then look on the right
04:05
sidebar. And then one of the
04:09
last options down at the bottom
04:09
where it says more options, his
04:11
email link to this episode. So
04:11
if you click that will show you
04:13
the right link to share and
04:13
there's a copy button next to
04:15
it. That's the link that you
04:15
want to share. We also when your
04:18
episode is finished processing
04:18
will also shoot you an email and
04:20
that same link is in the email.
04:20
So you don't have to log out of
04:23
your account to get the right
04:23
email or to get the right link,
04:26
but you might not know where it
04:26
is. So that's where it is click
04:29
on your episode look in the
04:29
right sidebar and it's down
04:31
towards the bottom.
04:32  Travis
And as a fun editing
04:32
note, Michael podcast of
04:34
buzzsprout.com is available. So
04:34
if that fits with your show, log
04:40
into your Buzzsprout account
04:40
very quickly and claim it and
04:43
then when someone goes to
04:43
Michael podcast@buzzsprout.com
04:45
they'll go to your podcast
04:46  Kevin
instead of me get all the
04:46
free promotion from this
04:48
episode.
04:49  Travis
Everyone will go find
04:49
your episode. It will solve all
04:52
of your podcast marketing and
04:52
growth problems. Everything will
04:55
go away and you will just ride
04:55
the momentum into the into the
04:59
distance into the process. I
05:00  Kevin
will say one more thing
05:00
before we move on from that
05:03
topic, we talked about if you
05:03
have your own website, and we
05:05
talked about if you don't have
05:05
your own website, and there is a
05:07
middle ground, also where you
05:07
can have a domain, but you don't
05:10
necessarily have to then take
05:10
the next step to get your own
05:12
website, you can point your
05:12
domain to the Buzzsprout.
05:14
website. And so that is an
05:14
option. Also, if you're
05:17
interested in going to a domain
05:17
registrar, like GoDaddy, or I
05:21
think we have a discount code
05:21
for hover. So if you just want
05:23
to buy a domain and use that,
05:23
like my cool podcast calm, then
05:27
which is probably not available,
05:27
but if it were, you could buy
05:30
it, and then you could point
05:30
that to your Buzzsprout site.
05:32
Oh, I am checking right now.
05:33  Travis
No one is gonna register
05:33
this domain, Michael podcast.com
05:38
is not being used. But I would
05:38
have to do some more digging to
05:42
see if it's actually for sale.
05:42
Okay.
05:44  Alban
Yeah, it's not a good
05:44
domain. But um, anyway, you can
05:48
have your own special domain.
05:48
And you can point that to
05:50
Buzzsprout. So that what shows
05:50
up on your Buzzsprout account
05:54
shows up when you go to this
05:54
specific URL, that is what I
05:58
would recommend very early in
05:58
your podcasting journey is
06:01
setting that up. Because you
06:01
don't want to add all this
06:04
workflow, building your own
06:04
WordPress site and setting up
06:07
hosting with a WordPress site as
06:07
well. Just go ahead, get the
06:10
domain, redirect it, and you're
06:10
done. And you're not dealing
06:14
with a whole bunch of other
06:14
stuff.
06:15  Kevin
Yeah, it's not a
06:15
redirect, though, it's actually
06:17
called a forward in most of
06:17
these registered accounts like
06:20
GoDaddy and stuff is called
06:20
domain forwarding. That's the
06:22
simplest way to point to your
06:22
Buzzsprout site. There are other
06:25
ways, but I like that one,
06:25
because you can actually forward
06:28
it to the secure version of your
06:28
Buzzsprout site. So you buy the
06:31
domain there, like 12 bucks, you
06:31
click on the link that says
06:35
forward this domain, and you
06:35
type in https colon slash slash,
06:39
my pool, Michael podcast
06:39
buzzsprout.com. And then when
06:42
anybody goes to your domain,
06:42
they get redirected to a secure
06:44
site. It's fantastic.
06:46  Travis
Now, Kevin, I want to
06:46
queue up this next question for
06:48
you, because I feel like this is
06:48
going to be right in your
06:49
wheelhouse. brata, Lee was
06:49
curious about some of the tools
06:54
that we have for kind of
06:54
fleshing out and adding some
06:57
some color and some detail to
06:57
their episodes. He says, I have
07:01
figured out sound bites, but I
07:01
don't understand the benefit, or
07:05
how to add chapter markers and a
07:05
transcript. So could you talk to
07:09
how to add chapter markers, how
07:09
they're valuable, and then also
07:12
kind of dig into the transcript
07:12
aspect of it as well?
07:14
Absolutely.
07:15  Kevin
So these are the three
07:15
things that we encourage you to
07:19
do. You know, given the amount
07:19
of time that you have and effort
07:22
energy you're willing to put
07:22
into your podcast, but there are
07:25
three top things that we
07:25
recommend that you do for every
07:27
episode. And they are the
07:27
largest things when you click
07:30
into an episode in your
07:30
Buzzsprout account, their
07:32
largest things in that right
07:32
sidebar. So these are all things
07:34
that are good, and that you can
07:34
do to help promote your episode
07:37
and make it better. The three
07:37
that we recommend are the
07:40
biggest at the top. And it's
07:40
transcripts, Chapter markers,
07:42
and visual sound bites. So let's
07:42
just start at the top and walk
07:45
down. I know it's not
07:45
necessarily the order of the
07:46
question. But that's the
07:46
simplest way for me to think
07:49
about it. So transcripts, we've
07:49
talked at length about
07:52
transcripts, and I think the
07:52
last Buzzcast episode, we went
07:54
into some detail about how we're
07:54
looking to provide more and more
07:58
value out of transcripts and
07:58
make these available player
08:01
apps. But the biggest benefits
08:01
of transcripts in a nutshell is
08:04
accessibility for people who
08:04
have a hearing impairment. And
08:07
now your content is available to
08:07
them. And discoverability in
08:10
terms of search engines find it
08:10
a lot easier to just and index
08:14
written content, instead versus
08:14
audio content. So the more of
08:18
your content that you can get in
08:18
written form, the better chances
08:22
that somebody is going to be
08:22
searching for something
08:23
somewhere on the internet or a
08:23
podcast app and your your
08:26
podcasts will be discovered as
08:26
part of the solution to whatever
08:28
they're looking for. So that's a
08:28
good high level overview on
08:32
transcripts. Again, if you want
08:32
more detail, listen to our last
08:34
episode. Now, Chapter markers,
08:34
is something very different
08:39
chapter markers does not help
08:39
with discoverability. But it
08:41
helps with the listening
08:41
experience. So if you think
08:44
about ways that you can add
08:44
value to your audience members
08:47
and make it a more enjoyable
08:47
experience for them to be able
08:50
to when they're enjoying your
08:50
content, Chapter markers are a
08:52
great way to do that. Just like
08:52
when you listen to if you've
08:55
ever listened to an audiobook
08:55
and audible or something that
08:57
you can jump to a chapter, to
08:57
hear the content in that chapter
09:01
specifically without having to
09:01
listen to for hours to get
09:03
there. That's what chapter
09:03
markers do in a podcast. So
09:05
podcasts are long form content.
09:05
Some of our episodes are 20
09:09
minutes, Chapter markers might
09:09
not be that important. Some of
09:11
our episodes are closer to an
09:11
hour or more chapter markers
09:13
become more important, the
09:13
longer your content is, and
09:16
especially if you move from
09:16
topic to topic. So again, if
09:18
you're if your podcast is
09:18
storytelling, jumping around in
09:22
a story might not be as
09:22
important as a roundtable
09:25
discussion. So today, we're
09:25
probably going to create chapter
09:28
markers for this episode that go
09:28
through maybe not every
09:31
question, but at least maybe the
09:31
general categories of questions.
09:34
So I think like some of our
09:34
categories of questions we have
09:37
today might be like Buzzsprout,
09:37
tools, interview techniques,
09:39
podcast marketing, sorry, I'm
09:39
doing a little bit signposting
09:41
here,
09:42  Travis
where we're going to
09:42
tell them just tell them what
09:44
they need to know.
09:46  Kevin
But our chapters might
09:46
end up looking like that. So
09:50
every time you skip to a
09:50
chapter, you're jumping 10 or 15
09:53
minutes through the episode. And
09:53
while that might not be
09:56
necessarily like from a content
09:56
creators perspective, you might
09:59
say hey, Don't want people jump
09:59
around, I want him to listen,
10:01
from start to finish, we have to
10:01
recognize that that's not
10:04
necessarily the the listening
10:04
habits of everyone who listens
10:08
to your show. And more
10:08
importantly, this is how I use
10:10
chapter markers all the time, is
10:10
I will listen to most podcasts
10:14
beginning to end. But then I
10:14
will remember something later in
10:17
the week that I want to go back
10:17
and listen to again, or
10:19
reference or send a link to
10:19
somebody. And podcasts that has
10:23
chapter markers allows me to
10:23
find that link and do it much
10:25
easier to the point where
10:25
podcasts don't have chapter
10:28
markers, I hardly share, or I
10:28
hardly even bother going back
10:31
and trying to find that segment,
10:31
because it's just gonna be too
10:33
difficult to scrub through the
10:33
audio and find it. But I know
10:36
like ATP is a show I listen to
10:36
every week and they have chapter
10:38
markers. And I can always find
10:38
exactly what I'm looking for
10:40
very quickly. So I referenced
10:40
that stuff all the time. So
10:43
that's chapter markers in a
10:43
nutshell.
10:45  Alban
Yeah, I actually think
10:45
that's the same argument I use
10:47
for transcripts. There's podcast
10:47
I listened to they're really
10:50
big, they just never published
10:50
the transcripts. And I've
10:53
actually transcribed some other
10:53
episodes, so that I can like
10:57
save little segments that I
10:57
thought were interesting.
11:00
Whereas there's a podcast, I
11:00
really like Tom conversations
11:04
with Tyler that has, like,
11:04
actually human edited perfect
11:09
transcripts on the website. And
11:09
it's so nice to search for a
11:12
section I liked. Take a
11:12
screenshot, share it, send it to
11:16
somebody and not ask them, Hey,
11:16
why don't you listen to an hour
11:19
and a half episode, you can just
11:19
say, hey, this part was really
11:22
interesting, I think you'd like
11:22
it. That's the behavior you want
11:26
to be encouraging. your
11:26
listeners love your podcast, and
11:30
now they can share segments to
11:30
friends. Listen to that specific
11:34
part, these two tools make that
11:34
a lot easier.
11:37  Travis
So Alvin, let me get the
11:37
straight, you took it, somebody
11:40
else's podcast that you listen
11:40
to. And you're like, you're not
11:43
creating create transcript,
11:43
which is what I want. So I'm
11:46
going to make a transcript for
11:46
you for myself. So that way, I
11:49
can remember the stuff that I
11:49
want to remember,
11:51  Alban
I did not want to re
11:51
listen to like an hour and a
11:54
half episode. And I wanted to
11:54
find this one particular part.
11:57
And because I have otter.ai
11:57
transcripts or so were my it was
12:04
gonna be free. So I just was
12:04
like, fine, I've downloaded the
12:07
episode, uploaded it to otter,
12:07
got it, copied the second out
12:11
and put it in my notes like this
12:11
three paragraph section. But it
12:14
was like that's the easiest
12:14
part. There's no chapter
12:16
markers. I don't know how to
12:16
find it. There's no
12:19
searchability. So that was my
12:19
workaround. I don't think
12:23
there's anybody else who's gonna
12:23
do that. Yeah, like it.
12:26  Travis
I can't think of any
12:26
other anyone else that would do
12:29
that. But it tickles me pink
12:29
that you did that? Yeah.
12:33  Kevin
You know, I had a couple
12:33
conversations with doesn't
12:37
matter who I had these
12:37
conversations with. And I
12:39
probably shouldn't say anyway.
12:39
But in the last week, I've had
12:41
conversations with people who
12:41
work in podcasting about
12:44
transcripts. And I can tell you
12:44
that there are third party
12:47
players, and companies that are
12:47
doing transcripts in the
12:50
background, whether you're doing
12:50
them or not to help surface
12:53
podcast episodes for your show.
12:53
And what I was talking to them
12:57
about was the fact that
12:57
Buzzsprout is now providing, if
12:59
you provide a podcast yourself
12:59
for your content, then we are
13:02
pushing that in the app, and
13:02
they're like, well, that's they
13:04
were very interested in that
13:04
because it's a, it's a, like,
13:08
it's an approved transcript of
13:08
your episode, right. And because
13:11
you're providing it, versus them
13:11
relying on their AI to provide a
13:15
transcript where they might get
13:15
some words wrong. And they're
13:18
not, they don't have any plans
13:18
to surface these to the
13:20
listeners. They're just using
13:20
them so that when you search a
13:23
topic and their podcast app,
13:23
they can try to surface the most
13:25
relevant episodes, things that
13:25
are actually talking about that
13:27
stuff. It's just getting more
13:27
and more important to consider
13:30
transcripts for your podcast,
13:30
either you're gonna provide the
13:33
transcript, or they're gonna do
13:33
it, the benefits of you doing it
13:35
is you get control over it. So
13:35
you get to make sure the words
13:37
or write the names or write any
13:37
company names or whatever you're
13:40
talking about are spelled
13:40
correctly, and you get the
13:43
additional benefit of them, they
13:43
might surface that then for the
13:45
end listener, as opposed to if
13:45
they do it themselves. They're
13:47
telling me anyway, they have no
13:47
intention of surfacing it for
13:49
the end user, because they know
13:49
that they're getting some things
13:51
wrong.
13:52  Travis
I know that bronto Lee
13:52
mentioned that they had figured
13:54
out how to use the sound bites,
13:54
but there I'm sure there are
13:56
people listening to this episode
13:56
that have either never created a
13:59
sound bite or aren't sure how to
13:59
do that. So I want to this up
14:02
again to you, Kevin, because we
14:02
just made a big improvement to
14:04
the sound bites feature that I
14:04
think people are gonna be really
14:06
excited about.
14:07  Kevin
Yes, so sound bites are
14:07
they have a lot of different
14:11
names. The Buzzsprout name for
14:11
these guys is visual sound bite.
14:14
But you might have heard these
14:14
things referred to as
14:16
audiograms. What else do people
14:16
call them? I don't like some
14:20
people just call them
14:20
headliners. Some people call
14:21
them waves. When I think
14:22  Travis
of an audiogram I think
14:22
of like Middle School where you
14:25
would pay people like $5 to sing
14:25
a song on Valentine's Day like a
14:28
singing telegram. Yeah, that's
14:28
what I think. erotica, gram.
14:32  Unknown
Yeah, that's a good
14:32
image. But it's not that that's
14:34
not what it is. No, it's that's
14:34
actually
14:36  Alban
a really good podcast
14:36
growth tool. just hire like a
14:39
troubadour to go and sing your
14:39
podcast to people. You will get
14:43
some listens.
14:45  Kevin
That's the ninja ninja
14:45
podcast growth hack by Alvin.
14:49
Okay, so a visual sound bite is
14:49
one of these things. It's
14:52
they're basically little video
14:52
files and they take highlights
14:55
from your podcast episode so
14:55
that you can share them on
14:57
social media sites, whether it
14:57
be Facebook or YouTube or
15:00
Instagram or Tiktok, her
15:00
Instagram, what's the new one
15:03
Instagram reels hot doing?
15:05  Travis
What's up Instagram.
15:08  Alban
This is what I was doing
15:08
to get Gen X trying to tell you
15:10
what social media to be on.
15:10
There's my space, there's
15:13
friendly, there's all these
15:13
hearts move,
15:15  Unknown
whatever you call these
15:15
things,
15:19  Kevin
do these things. Alright,
15:19
so you take your visual
15:22
soundbite, you create your clip.
15:22
So we have a tool, it's super
15:25
easy, you go in and you say,
15:25
around 30 minutes or so I
15:28
started talking about something
15:28
interesting that I want to
15:29
share. They can be anywhere
15:29
between 15 seconds up to two
15:33
minutes. And then you get a
15:33
little animated waveform that
15:36
flows on top of the graphic, you
15:36
can switch out the graphic if
15:38
you don't like it, you can use
15:38
your your podcast cover art as a
15:41
default, or you can type some
15:41
text on the page. So they're
15:44
kind of flexible. If you want
15:44
more flexibility, again, we
15:47
always point to tools like WAV
15:47
is our number one recommendation
15:49
headliners another option. And
15:49
then you download the video, and
15:53
you upload it to wherever you
15:53
want to share it. So the social
15:56
sites that I mentioned before,
15:56
and you want to make sure you
15:59
always include a link if you
15:59
can, like on Instagram, they
16:02
don't give you links unless you
16:02
have 10,000 followers or so you
16:04
don't get a little Swipe up to
16:04
see more. But if you're at those
16:07
thresholds, or you're sharing on
16:07
a platform that lets you like
16:09
YouTube, go ahead and put a link
16:09
to your full episode. And it's a
16:11
great way to get people excited
16:11
and interested in your content.
16:14
It's think about like people who
16:14
go to a bookstore, right? If
16:17
people are looking at a
16:17
podcasting app, and browsing, or
16:21
flipping through a social site
16:21
and looking for something
16:23
interesting to listen to. It's
16:23
like reading the the jacket
16:26
cover or something on a on the
16:26
back of a book. It's a great
16:30
little teaser, intro to your
16:30
podcasts and a good way to find
16:32
some new listeners.
16:36  Alban
Alright, so there's
16:36
another good question here.
16:38
Lazar asks, I know you've talked
16:38
about this before, but can you
16:41
go a bit deeper on making the
16:41
sound of a phone call or
16:45
FaceTime call clear? That's a
16:45
good question. We actually just
16:49
feels like we just published a
16:49
post on this. But it's from
16:53
February. Wow. That was
16:55  Travis
like two years ago.
16:55
albon. February was like two
16:57
years ago.
16:58  Alban
That was back when we
16:58
were expecting it's actually
17:01
funny reading this. It says
17:01
like, oh wondery benefit of
17:04
recording not in person is that
17:04
it's more likely to get the
17:08
interview, it's a little bit
17:08
easier. And unlike the other is
17:10
that you don't get COVID. So
17:10
there's multiple benefits. But
17:15
yeah, we were naive back in
17:15
February. Anyway, how to record
17:18
phone calls for podcasts, we can
17:18
leave a link, I kind of want to
17:21
run through some of the pros and
17:21
cons here. If you do just audio,
17:26
it's a little bit easier to get
17:26
people to agree to an interview.
17:29
Even now, like when you probably
17:29
have to be remote. Some people
17:32
just don't like turning on the
17:32
camera, and they feel a little
17:34
more self conscious. So that's
17:34
one benefit of Tim Ferriss has
17:39
actually been a proponent of
17:39
just doing the audio, he
17:43
actually thinks it helps people
17:43
feel a little bit less
17:46
intimidated, but a little bit
17:46
more authentic. If you're on the
17:49
phone call, you know, the person
17:49
you're interviewing doesn't have
17:52
to be techie. They don't even
17:52
know how to figure out zoom,
17:54
they can just dial in. But
17:54
there's definitely some real
17:58
downsides. I mean, the main one
17:58
is this question is in reference
18:02
to how do we make it sound
18:02
better? Well, the there is a
18:04
massive limitation here, phone
18:04
calls are compressed down to
18:09
about 12 to four kilobits per
18:09
second, which is something like
18:17
an eighth of what your podcast
18:17
should be at. And so the amount
18:22
of quality in that audio is just
18:22
is going to be degraded. And
18:27
it's going to make all of the
18:27
imperfections in the audio kind
18:32
of come out a little bit more.
18:32
So it's going to be pretty
18:35
tough. And there's also the risk
18:35
that the phone call drops out.
18:40
So there are some downsides. If
18:40
you want just how to do it, you
18:45
know, we've got lots of ways to
18:45
do it, we probably recommend
18:48
using something like a zoom h6.
18:48
For a hardware setup. You can
18:53
also do things like record a
18:53
zoom call on your phone, if you
18:57
if your only restriction is
18:57
really, I need to use my actual
19:00
phone. So there's this whole
19:00
blog post that we will give you
19:04
for all of that. But zoom has
19:04
gotten so much better,
19:08
especially for recording
19:08
interviews, I would really push
19:12
anyone who wants to record on
19:12
the phone, just say hey, can you
19:15
download this zoom app and
19:15
record it that way? Because the
19:18
quality you're gonna get is a
19:18
massive improvement from having
19:22
them call in over a phone
19:22
number.
19:24  Kevin
We've done it both ways
19:24
for the show. I don't know if
19:25
you guys remember like a year
19:25
ago, I was I was out of town and
19:28
I tried calling into record. And
19:28
we got about five minutes into
19:31
it before both of you were like
19:31
this is this is unacceptable. We
19:34
got to try something else. And
19:34
so we switched to FaceTime and
19:37
you guys still recorded it, you
19:37
know through zoom or whatever
19:39
we're using at the time. And
19:39
that was much better. So again,
19:42
just switching from like actual
19:42
telephone and cell phone signal
19:46
quality over to like a voice
19:46
over IP quality is a substantial
19:51
jump. And then to make that
19:51
whole process easier. The next
19:54
step would be getting some
19:54
hardware whether it be a zoom,
19:56
h6 or the ps4 or a road caster
19:56
Pro. Those are all hardware
19:59
solutions. that are going to
19:59
make it actually technically
20:01
easier for you set it up. But if
20:01
you're not ready for that
20:04
investment, you can record a
20:04
FaceTime call fine into zoom,
20:06
you can record a zoom call
20:06
directly into zoom. That's where
20:09
it started.
20:10  Travis
Yeah, and as far as
20:10
making it sound as good as
20:13
possible, you're really gonna
20:13
want to coach your guest to be
20:17
set up for success. So if you
20:17
can encourage them to record in
20:21
like a walk in closet, or, you
20:21
know, me and Alban did this
20:25
recently, we had one of our
20:25
guests that we were interviewing
20:29
sit on their bed with the
20:29
Comforter over her head while we
20:33
were recording the interview.
20:33
And it sounds incredible. And
20:36
because we weren't recording the
20:36
video, it didn't matter what it
20:38
looked like. We just had that
20:38
time constraint of how long can
20:41
she stay in the Comforter before
20:41
she gets like sweated out right?
20:44  Kevin
Let us know how that goes
20:44
for you. If you if you ask all
20:46
your podcast guests to throw a
20:46
comforter over their heads
20:48
before we start,
20:49  Alban
well, she was recording
20:49
using her laptop speaker. And it
20:53
was like, hey, we've got to
20:53
record this now. And the only
20:56
mic she had was the laptop
20:56
speaker. And so I remember being
20:59
like, this is gonna be a rough
20:59
sounding interview. She was
21:02
like, Oh, this is what I've done
21:02
in the past. But this help. And
21:05
we're like, shocked by how much
21:05
it improved the sound quality.
21:09  Travis
Yeah, so if you can get
21:09
them into a recording
21:12
environments, where there's like
21:12
no Echo, and there's a lot of
21:16
sound dampening materials, you
21:16
can get passable audio from just
21:21
about any kind of microphone,
21:21
even a phone microphone. But the
21:25
other thing, the other little
21:25
tip that I offer to podcasters
21:29
is ask them if they have access
21:29
to Apple earbuds, the free
21:34
headphones that you get with
21:34
every iPhone, because they have
21:36
a directional microphone on
21:36
them. That is significantly
21:39
better than the microphone on
21:39
the phone itself. And if they
21:43
don't have one, they have a
21:43
relative or a friend that has
21:46
them like they're, they're
21:46
everywhere. So that's what I
21:49
would encourage you to do is
21:49
find a way to get them in a
21:51
recording environment where
21:51
there's gonna be like close to
21:54
zero echo. And if they can get
21:54
their hands on some apple
21:57
earbuds, that makes a big
21:57
difference to
21:59  Alban
Yeah, I think that's
21:59
good. All right, we ready for
22:01
another question?
22:02  Travis
Yes. So Steve asked this
22:02
question. And then Kate was
22:05
like, Yes, please, let's talk
22:05
about this. And it was just
22:08
interviewing techniques, share
22:08
your interviewing techniques. So
22:12
Alvin, when you interview
22:12
people, what is your preparation
22:15
process look like? And what are
22:15
the kinds of questions that
22:18
you'd like to ask to get like
22:18
really good conversations?
22:22  Alban
Well, the best thing you
22:22
can do is actually to do the
22:24
prep. I mean, I remember when
22:24
you interviewed Eric Newsome for
22:28
when he launched his book on
22:28
podcasting, that he said, Oh, I
22:32
really appreciated the fact that
22:32
you read my book. And like,
22:36
right, you'd think that's table
22:36
stakes, but it's not. There's
22:39
plenty of people who will just
22:39
be like, so podcast, what is it,
22:41
I know, you wrote a book about
22:41
it, I didn't read it, like, give
22:43
me a good interview, it's not
22:43
going to be a great interview,
22:46
if you do not care about your
22:46
guest. And the way you show care
22:51
and respect to your guest is
22:51
like, if it's going to be a 45
22:55
minute interview, I feel like
22:55
you want to put two to three
22:58
times that much into the prep.
22:58
And that's you listening to
23:03
other interviews with them
23:03
trying to read if they've got a
23:05
personal website or blogs, like
23:05
skimming through trying to catch
23:09
like, what is interesting about
23:09
this person, and what in
23:12
particular would be interesting
23:12
to my audience, because they
23:15
don't know that. And they're not
23:15
directing the conversation you
23:18
are. So once you do all that
23:18
prep, I just sit there and I
23:22
write as much as I can. I'm
23:22
like, Oh, this is interesting
23:25
about their life. And then you
23:25
are the one keeping up questions
23:30
to draw out the things you think
23:30
are interesting. And now this is
23:35
the real tip that I want to give
23:35
is like, a great interviewer is
23:40
a great listener. I've been in
23:40
interviews where I'm the
23:43
interviewee. And I've done it
23:43
probably both ways. But I know
23:46
once where I'm like, oh, what I
23:46
said, I know we're gonna have a
23:49
good follow up, because it's
23:49
interesting to them. And I know
23:53
the person interviewing me
23:53
didn't hear it. And they just
23:55
asked their next question. And
23:55
it kind of kills any of the
23:58
momentum and love him or hate
23:58
him. This is actually what I
24:02
think Joe Rogan is like, almost
24:02
an expert at is. It doesn't even
24:06
seem like he's asking questions
24:06
that he's prepared. He's just
24:09
listening so intently, these
24:09
just following everything that's
24:13
interesting in the other
24:13
person's answers. And they just
24:17
go down rabbit holes for hours.
24:17
And they're mostly really
24:21
interesting rabbit holes. So
24:21
really listen carefully to what
24:25
the person you're interviewing
24:25
says. So that you can ask.
24:29
Excellent follow up questions.
24:31  Kevin
Yeah. So Alvin, I think
24:31
that is an excellent, what you
24:34
said about doing prep ahead of
24:34
time. That is such a huge
24:38
difference in terms of the guest
24:38
experience. So I just did a
24:41
podcast episode. It's called for
24:41
the love of podcast and the
24:46
host, Billy was not someone who
24:46
I knew before we set up this
24:49
interview. And so I figured that
24:49
we were going to have a
24:52
conversation but a lot of it
24:52
would be exploratory. And we get
24:54
on the call and he has done so
24:54
much research on who I am as a
24:58
person, what my interests are.
24:58
Buzzsprout as a company are the
25:02
history of our company, he'd
25:02
gone back and listened to old
25:04
podcast episodes that I was
25:04
guest on, and asked me follow up
25:07
questions from those episodes.
25:07
And it was just a, it's what a
25:10
fun experience. Now, obviously,
25:10
it could get creepy like,
25:16  Alban
how do you know that? So
25:16
last Thursday you ate at
25:17
bonefish Bar and Grill and
25:17
delicious bangbang appetizer?
25:22
Tell me how was that appetizer?
25:24  Kevin
Yeah, it was not like
25:24
that at all, it was just very
25:27
clear that he was very
25:27
interested in me as a person.
25:29
And the topics that we were
25:29
going to be talking about, which
25:31
was Buzzsprout. And what we're
25:31
doing as a podcast host and how
25:34
we grew the company and what's
25:34
working and what's not. And it
25:37
just made for such a fun
25:37
discussion. And like an episode
25:41
that I was proud to promote. And
25:41
so it's kind of hit or miss.
25:45
When I do a lot of podcast
25:45
episodes, it's kind of hit or
25:47
miss the ones that I take the
25:47
time to share around and share
25:49
with the company and find clips
25:49
that I really like and push
25:52
those. And this was an episode
25:52
that was really easy for me to
25:54
do that on because we talked
25:54
about things that weren't that
25:58
were at a different level, then
25:58
when conversations on how to
26:01
different podcasts because of
26:01
the research he did ahead of
26:04
time. So I think that is a huge
26:04
tip. The other thing that I
26:08
would add to that is you have to
26:08
define and figure out for
26:11
yourself what interview style
26:11
works for you. So there's a lot
26:15
of great interview podcasts that
26:15
you can go out and listen to, to
26:19
figure it out. Like Alvin
26:19
brought up Joe Rogan. That's one
26:21
interview style. There's also
26:21
you know, Terry Gross, she has
26:23
her own style. There's also like
26:23
guy Roz on how I built this,
26:29
that's a totally different
26:29
interview style. So listen to a
26:32
bunch of different interview
26:32
styles, figure out which one
26:35
resonates with you, like I enjoy
26:35
this type of show, and then
26:38
dissect it like reverse
26:38
engineer. How did they do that?
26:40
How do they go from one question
26:40
to the next? What type of
26:42
questions are they answering?
26:42
Are they trying to, you know,
26:44
weave a story? Or are they
26:44
trying to peck around and hop
26:47
around? Are they jumping back to
26:47
something I talked about the
26:49
beginning of episode or they
26:49
always think linear? Like just
26:52
take the time to figure out what
26:52
works for you and the type of
26:54
show that you want to put
26:54
together?
26:56  Travis
Man, you guys are both
26:56
seasons, podcast interviews,
26:58
that was great. I feel like I
26:58
don't even have anything to add
27:00
to that
27:00  Kevin
gold. I told you we're
27:00
gonna drop gold today,
27:02  Travis
so much gold. I will say
27:02
this, the the one thing that
27:06
that I think about when it comes
27:06
to being a great interviewer is
27:08
you have to be curious. You have
27:08
to want to know what the answer
27:11
is. I know when I was first
27:11
getting started with podcasting,
27:15
and doing interviews, I would
27:15
have my list of 10 questions.
27:18
And I would just literally ask
27:18
question one, Question two,
27:21
question three, Question four,
27:21
and just go down the list. And
27:23
the end is like cool. I asked
27:23
all my questions, got all my
27:25
answers. There's my podcast
27:25
episode. But there's a
27:27
difference. When you latch onto
27:27
something you're like, no, I
27:31
personally want to learn more
27:31
about the thing that they just
27:34
said. And then that becomes the
27:34
gold nugget of that interview.
27:38
Because now it's not just you're
27:38
exchanging information backing
27:42
back and forth. you're exploring
27:42
something together, you're
27:45
exploring something from this
27:45
person. And that is what is
27:48
captivating from a listeners
27:48
perspective. When you feel like
27:51
you're diving into something,
27:51
instead of just you know,
27:54
listening to a book report.
27:54
Yeah, I like that. Avenue.
27:58
Right? Yeah, I
27:59  Alban
was juicy. My eyes. I was
27:59
like, Yeah, I've like, tried to
28:03
breed some of my coffee. So I
28:03
was just coughing up.
28:07  Travis
You is that is you're
28:07
trying to get the caffeine in
28:10
your system faster. Like it.
28:13  Alban
It woke me up quickly.
28:19
Got another good one, Nick asked
28:19
how to turn declining download
28:24
numbers around. So without
28:24
knowing too much of the, you
28:30
know what's going on in your
28:30
particular podcast, Nick, Travis
28:33
and I are actually in the
28:33
process of working on a how to
28:37
grow a podcast series. And this
28:37
is going to be a video series
28:41
will probably turn it into blog
28:41
posts as well, on all the
28:44
marketing techniques that we've
28:44
seen work, you know, just how
28:48
different podcasters have grown
28:48
their podcasts. So one is to
28:52
say, Help is on the way, we've
28:52
got a lot more to write about
28:55
this. But one thing that I feel
28:55
very strongly about is not every
29:03
podcast has to grow. And I know
29:03
that that can be frustrating
29:09
when your numbers are going
29:09
down. But sometimes you're
29:13
getting rid of people who just
29:13
are not super fans of the
29:17
podcast, and that is actually
29:17
okay. You know, I often think if
29:21
I had the opportunity to show up
29:21
and speak to a local group about
29:26
something I cared about. And
29:26
even if it was only 30 people
29:29
who showed up, I would do it
29:29
every week, I would never drop
29:32
it. And I would always show up
29:32
and be excited. And if I all of
29:36
a sudden saw only 27 people, it
29:36
wouldn't bother me, I would
29:39
actually be still really excited
29:39
because people are continuing to
29:42
show up. And so one thing to
29:42
remember is these are real
29:45
people there they actually
29:45
engage. So even smaller numbers
29:50
matter.
29:51  Kevin
This is relevant to how
29:51
Buzzsprout operates. So
29:54
Buzzsprout is what we in the
29:54
technical in the technology
29:57
sector we'd call a SaaS
29:57
business. So all of our
29:59
customers sign up And pay us on
29:59
a monthly basis. And then they
30:03
can continue to pay us every
30:03
month or they can cancel. And if
30:05
they cancel, we call that churn.
30:05
And so it's something that we
30:08
track all the time. I think it's
30:08
healthy to think about your
30:11
podcast in the same way,
30:11
somebody subscribes to your
30:13
podcast or listen to one
30:13
episode, are they going to come
30:15
back next time and listen again?
30:15
Or are they going to churn? Now,
30:20
having an unhealthy level of
30:20
churn means that more people are
30:24
leaving than are coming in. And
30:24
that sounds like the situation
30:26
that you're describing, you have
30:26
declining numbers, so you're
30:28
churning more listeners, you
30:28
know, then you're signing up
30:31
every month, or every episode.
30:31
And that can be a problem. But
30:36
the, at least for us, and the
30:36
advice that I would give you is
30:39
don't focus so much on the
30:39
people that are leaving, focus
30:42
on the people that are staying,
30:42
talk to them and figure out why.
30:47
What do you like about the show?
30:47
What is the best part of the
30:49
show? What do you want to hear
30:49
every time you tune in, what
30:52
segments work, what segments are
30:52
not working, find your fans,
30:55
find out what they love about
30:55
you and do more of that, because
30:58
you have to find more of those
30:58
people. And you have to find
31:00
more of those people at a faster
31:00
clip, then when the wrong people
31:02
find you, they end up leaving,
31:02
okay, so that's how you're going
31:05
to produce a really great show
31:05
with a bunch of super fans, is
31:08
by finding out the content
31:08
that's resonating with the
31:11
people who do like you and give
31:11
more and more of that and find
31:14
more and more of those people.
31:14
So that's my
31:16  Alban
gosh, that is actually
31:16
really good. Kevin. Um, I mean,
31:20
this is the you kind of relating
31:20
it to this SAS world. And in
31:25
software, the first piece of
31:25
advice I tell people who are
31:29
trying to grow their software
31:29
products, is, look how quickly
31:33
people are leaving your product.
31:33
And you have to fix that problem
31:37
first, and actually make this a
31:37
really, really valuable software
31:40
product before people for people
31:40
to stick around before you focus
31:44
on getting more people to
31:44
actually sign up. And it really
31:48
is true for podcasting. If
31:48
people are leaving, we want to
31:52
figure out why did those people
31:52
leave? And what are the people
31:55
who stay? What are they doing?
31:55
What is this podcast doing for
31:57
them? What are they getting out
31:57
of it? And how do I get more
32:00
people like them. So once you
32:00
kind of plug the the hole in the
32:04
bottom of the bucket, then we
32:04
focus on filling the top of the
32:07
bucket a bit more, because we
32:07
know every bit of marketing we
32:11
do will actually lead to a lot
32:11
of growth.
32:14  Travis
And also don't take for
32:14
granted that podcasting as a
32:17
medium is probably one of the
32:17
hardest things to grow on the
32:21
internet. YouTube has built in
32:21
growth mechanics that if you hit
32:25
one video, you can just kind of
32:25
skyrocket your subscriber
32:28
numbers. blog posts are very
32:28
easily shareable. They're easy
32:31
to peruse, easy to scan, and so
32:31
you can get more traffic more
32:35
quickly with blog posts, audio
32:35
content, kind of like we talked
32:38
about earlier with the
32:38
importance of chapter markers
32:40
and transcripts, it takes a lot
32:40
for someone to commit to
32:44
listening to a show every week.
32:44
That is valuable time. They're
32:49
not watching a three minute
32:49
video on your YouTube channel.
32:51
They're not scanning a four
32:51
minute blog post, they're
32:53
spending 45 minutes listening to
32:53
your voice. And so even though
32:57
it is more difficult by
32:57
comparison to grow a podcast,
33:01
the value of those listeners is
33:01
so much greater that I would
33:05
trade 100 podcast listeners for
33:05
1000 YouTube subscribers every
33:09
day of the week, I would choose
33:09
the podcast listeners.
33:11  Alban
Yeah, I totally agree we
33:11
would actually make that trade.
33:14
That's not hyperbole. I think
33:14
about this all the time, the pod
33:18
cast that Travis and I did on
33:18
how to start a podcast is a
33:21
little self referential here,
33:21
but um, and the blog post we
33:24
have on this, the blog post has
33:24
been read something like 10
33:27
times as much as the podcast
33:27
itself has downloads. And
33:32
there's like 10 episodes. So
33:32
it's really like 100 times as
33:35
many people have read that blog
33:35
post. Men have ever listened to
33:39
the podcast. Yet whenever we go
33:39
to a conference, it's we
33:45
regularly now have people come
33:45
up and say, Hey, you taught me
33:47
how to podcast by all your
33:47
content. I love it. And I always
33:51
ask, oh, how did you encounter
33:51
it? It was at the YouTube
33:54
channel was at the blog was at
33:54
the course. And it's it feels
33:58
like it's always the podcast.
33:58
And it's not that other people
34:03
haven't engaged in learned. It's
34:03
that the people who are willing
34:07
to come up to me at conferences
34:07
and go, Hey, I learned a lot
34:10
from you. And it really was
34:10
valuable. Those are almost
34:12
always the people we built a
34:12
connection with through
34:15
podcasting. I do not have
34:15
anybody who is impressed that we
34:20
have a bunch of YouTube
34:20
subscribers or people who watch
34:22
the video, I think because it
34:22
they just don't feel the
34:25
connection the way that they do
34:25
with the podcast.
34:29  Kevin
Yeah, and I will throw in
34:29
this little tidbit. And Nick, I
34:32
don't presume This is where you
34:32
are in your journey. But it was
34:36
about two years ago, maybe a
34:36
little more when Apple released
34:38
these new tags for seasons and
34:38
episode numbers and episode
34:41
type. And from that point
34:41
forward, there was a lot of
34:44
podcasters who just did regular
34:44
shows on a weekly or bi monthly
34:48
basis or something who's decided
34:48
how I'm going to do seasons now.
34:52
And so what they're doing is
34:52
they're building this audience
34:54
and then they just get a little
34:54
bit, you know, tired or they
34:58
feel like they're going to
34:58
slightly switch topics. or
35:00
something. So they're going to
35:00
take a couple months off. And
35:02
then they want to come back with
35:02
season two. And so this is all
35:06
leading up to me saying, I don't
35:06
think the idea of seasons for
35:09
most podcasts are a good idea.
35:09
It takes a long time to build an
35:14
audience. And along that
35:14
journey, we are fighting things
35:17
like churn and exposure, and the
35:17
types of show that we're going
35:20
to do content type, all that
35:20
kind of stuff. And once you have
35:23
that, and you're you're building
35:23
this audience, you've now become
35:26
a regular part of people's
35:26
lives. And we talked about the
35:29
importance of being consistent
35:29
all the time in podcasting. And
35:32
what seasons do is they break up
35:32
that consistency, and they give
35:35
people an opportunity to replace
35:35
you with something else. And
35:38
then you win. So when you come
35:38
back with season two, the idea
35:42
that you're just going to pick
35:42
right back up, where you left
35:44
off with the same number of
35:44
downloads for every episode is
35:47
not what we see at all. The
35:47
reality is, is that it's a huge
35:50
step back. Now, if you do a
35:50
show, like cereal, or something
35:56
that's totally different in that
35:56
people understand, like, I think
36:00
cereal, well, it doesn't I was
36:00
gonna say I think they release
36:02
all at once. And it's not the
36:02
way it happened. But like s town
36:05
was a podcast episode, I think
36:05
they dropped like all seven or
36:07
eight at once. Rabbit Hole, I
36:07
think was very similar. But
36:10
these are like long term
36:10
evergreen content shows you can
36:12
go back and listen to that
36:12
whenever you want. They're not
36:14
trying to build something out of
36:14
every week, the tune in to hear
36:17
the latest of whatever the topic
36:17
is that I'm talking about. And
36:20
so that is the type of show that
36:20
you're doing. Please don't, you
36:23
know, say, Oh, that's the end of
36:23
season one, I'll be back in
36:26
three months. Because if you do
36:26
that, you're going to set
36:28
yourself back in terms of
36:28
regular listeners.
36:30  Alban
So I think this is a good
36:30
segue into Don had a question
36:35
right below, what's the best way
36:35
to market your show? So we've
36:38
talked about let's turn around
36:38
numbers by figuring out what
36:41
people really love about the
36:41
podcast so that we keep them
36:43
here. And now maybe we could
36:43
move into Don's question, how's
36:47
what's the best way to market
36:47
your show? So the first thing I
36:50
would say, non is, as Travis
36:50
said, it's hard to build the
36:55
audience for podcasting because
36:55
it doesn't have these built in
36:59
virality mechanisms. And if
36:59
you're not transcribing your
37:03
show, and you're not getting it
37:03
out onto the web, it's actually
37:05
hard for people to find new
37:05
podcasts. This definitely is
37:09
well known about the industry.
37:09
So what I recommend is finding
37:15
communities that are going to be
37:15
naturally very interested in
37:18
your podcast and engaging with
37:18
them. And so I've seen people do
37:23
this very well I in a big
37:23
Jacksonville Jaguars fan. And so
37:27
I'm, there's a forum that I like
37:27
that I go to. And it's pretty
37:31
regular that people are talking
37:31
about something. And then they
37:34
reference a podcast episode
37:34
where they talked about the same
37:37
thing. And that is such a good
37:37
way to get listeners because
37:43
you're engaging them as a
37:43
person, they find what you're
37:47
saying valuable. They liked your
37:47
insight. And then you say, and I
37:51
actually talked about this more
37:51
in depth on my podcast. And so I
37:55
can just go and subscribe, and
37:55
listen to more of what they have
37:58
to say. And if I enjoy the one
37:58
episode, I'll probably continue
38:02
to listen to more. And we do
38:02
this for our shows that are
38:06
about the podcasting industry.
38:06
I've shared them on forums about
38:12
podcasting. And if you're This
38:12
is about horse racing, see if
38:17
there's communities and Facebook
38:17
groups and Cora posts about
38:20
horse racing, engage, answer
38:20
people's questions, like
38:23
completely be the person who's
38:23
insane in how well you answer a
38:27
question. And then give them an
38:27
episode where you went even more
38:32
in depth. And people are going
38:32
to appreciate that so much. And
38:36
you just provide all this value,
38:36
and you then in turn, get all
38:40
the attention, which will lead
38:40
to new listeners. So that's
38:44
probably my favorite marketing
38:44
strategy.
38:47  Kevin
Yeah, I think that's a
38:47
good one. I think there you
38:49
always have to answer the
38:49
question yourself, whenever
38:51
you're talking about marketing
38:51
is do I have more time? Or do I
38:53
have more money? And if you have
38:53
more money, then you would look
38:58
at things like how can I buy ad
38:58
placements? And what are the
39:00
most effective places to place
39:00
those ads, if you have more
39:03
time, then you err more on the
39:03
side of like what Alvin said,
39:05
there's great marketing
39:05
opportunities that are very time
39:09
intensive, but very effective.
39:09
At the same time, I would say
39:13
the ones that take more time
39:13
than money are more effective.
39:17
But a lot of us don't have
39:17
enough time to invest in them.
39:20
So we think let's just throw
39:20
some money at it and see if it
39:22
can work. And the reality is
39:22
that it usually ends up costing
39:25
us more than we thought we would
39:25
to get the type of exposure that
39:28
we want to see. And so Facebook
39:28
is very good at this, you'll
39:32
post something on Facebook,
39:32
maybe you'll create a visual
39:34
soundbite from Buzzsprout. And
39:34
you posted your Facebook group,
39:36
and you'll see that the
39:36
engagement on it was like 65
39:39
people saw this, you can boost
39:39
this for 20 bucks and use 500
39:42
people will see it and you're
39:42
like 10 bucks, I'll pay 10
39:44
bucks. But the reality is that
39:44
getting in front of 500 people
39:48
isn't much better than getting
39:48
it in front of the 60 people
39:50
that buzz that Facebook already
39:50
gave you for free. Now, if you
39:53
could get in front of 5 million
39:53
people, then you're gonna start
39:56
to see a return but that's not
39:56
$10 anymore. It's $1,000 So
40:01
that's the lure of these pay for
40:01
exposure services is that
40:06
they're really good at kind of,
40:06
you know, boiling you slowly,
40:09
they want you to give them 10
40:09
bucks, and the next time they
40:10
want to give you 20 bucks and
40:10
then 30 bucks. And before you
40:13
know it, you spent 1000. Now
40:13
spend 1000, you might get the
40:15
return that you want, but again,
40:15
spent a lot more to get there. I
40:18
like the idea of to grow a
40:18
podcast, I like being in
40:22
podcasts. So I would say go be a
40:22
guest on other people's show. If
40:26
you're gonna buy an ad, don't
40:26
buy a Facebook ad because people
40:29
aren't looking for podcasts and
40:29
Facebook, people are looking
40:31
for, you know, they're killing
40:31
time. They're just browsing,
40:34
they want to get into a
40:34
political argument. That's what
40:36
people are doing on Facebook, if
40:36
you want. If you want to grow
40:40
your podcast fine, and the
40:40
podcast player, look at overcast
40:43
or pocket casts, I think they
40:43
sell ads in both of those
40:45
things. buy an ad on somebody
40:45
else's show, find a friend who's
40:49
podcasting about something
40:49
similar that you are and say,
40:50
Hey, how about I do a little
40:50
32nd promo you play it on your
40:54
show? And I'll give you 20
40:54
bucks. Maybe they'll say, Oh,
40:56
yeah, that's cool. I'll do that.
40:56
Or maybe they'll say I'll play
40:58
for free. If you play one for me
40:58
do that. Like I like the idea of
41:01
finding people that are already
41:01
listening to podcasts and trying
41:03
to figure out how I get my show
41:03
in front of them. So a couple
41:06
ideas for you.
41:07  Travis
Yeah, that's a great
41:07
transition, Kevin, because we
41:09
actually had the yoga den
41:09
podcast, specifically asked
41:13
about using Facebook ads to
41:13
promote your show. Have we seen
41:16
people be successful doing that.
41:16
And then also, jack was
41:19
wondering if there are different
41:19
opportunities for advertising?
41:23
Alvin, I know that you have kind
41:23
of run the gamut of trying these
41:27
different apps. What are the
41:27
apps that we have promoted our
41:30
podcasts on? And what are the
41:30
kind of returns that you can see
41:33
on those versus doing Facebook
41:33
ads, where you're really just
41:35
paying for impressions?
41:37  Alban
Yeah, so the apps that I
41:37
know you can buy ads, I think
41:41
Kevin said pocket casts, but
41:41
overcast we've done it's a
41:45
little bit more expensive, but
41:45
it's pretty easy. And you know,
41:49
you're gonna get another hundred
41:49
subscribers or so it might cost
41:52
you a few hundred dollars,
41:52
though. So it's not cheap. But
41:55
remember, if you can get 100
41:55
subscribers who enjoy your
41:58
podcast, man, that's, uh, you
41:58
just, that's you're above
42:01
average already. And maybe, you
42:01
know, no matter where you were,
42:04
you just added a good amount of
42:04
people. You can get a lot of
42:08
listeners I know, on castbox.
42:08
But castbox, I think their base
42:13
prices are going to be like
42:13
20 $500, so that you're running
42:16
a pretty big campaign. I believe
42:16
player m does it. And one we
42:21
tested out recently was pod LP.
42:21
And we talked about this, I
42:27
don't know, maybe two months ago
42:27
or so. And the founder of pod
42:32
LP, reached out and said, thanks
42:32
for you know, talking about the
42:35
podcast, hey, if you're ever
42:35
interested in doing some ads
42:39
with us, you know, that'd be
42:39
cool. And it was very, very
42:43
cheap. So I think it was like $3
42:43
a day to be highlighted in the
42:46
app. And I was like, sure. And I
42:46
said, you go, you know, even if
42:51
this doesn't return anything to
42:51
us, it doesn't really matter.
42:54
We're supporting somebody who's,
42:54
you know, launching a podcasting
42:58
app on what's the name of the
43:01  Travis
QoS
43:03  Alban
QoS, which is very large
43:03
in India. It's kind of like
43:06
after Apple, Android. But it's,
43:06
you know, millions of phones in
43:11
the world are using iOS. And he
43:11
was actually the first
43:14
podcasting app. So I was like,
43:14
Oh, we should support this. And
43:17
apparently, when he hit the
43:17
Kiowa store, how to start a
43:23
podcast we got like, I mean, it
43:23
was something like 10,000
43:26
downloads in a day. Is that
43:28  Travis
right? Travis? It was so
43:28
insane. Because if you have a
43:32
podcast of Buzzsprout, you know
43:32
how you get those weekly emails,
43:34
giving you updates on how many
43:34
people downloaded your podcast,
43:37
I got the email for how to start
43:37
a podcast. And I'm like, how is
43:40
it possible that we had 60,000
43:40
downloads for a podcast we
43:43
published two years ago.
43:44  Kevin
Right, Travis probably
43:44
filed a bug report, we
43:46  Unknown
did something I did.
43:49  Alban
Tom, who does runs all
43:49
the stats in john, and me and he
43:54
goes, guys, we're getting blown
43:54
up by a bot, what's going on
43:57
here. And I was like, Oh, that's
43:57
not a bot, Tom. And I've
44:00
actually been talking to Thomas,
44:00
who developed pod LP, and they
44:05
just hit the store. And those
44:05
are all real downloads. Now,
44:09
your podcast may not be a
44:09
perfect fit for the pod LP app,
44:13
because it's primarily I feel
44:13
like the listenership is in
44:15
India. But it depends on what
44:15
your podcast is about. I mean,
44:20
you know, if it was about
44:20
technology, that's good. If it's
44:23
about, you know, food and
44:23
travel, that's gonna work. But
44:27
if your podcast is about some,
44:27
you know, sports team in the
44:30
United States, probably not, you
44:30
know, super relevant. So just
44:33
make sure that you, an
44:33
international audience will work
44:36
for your podcast, so you're not
44:36
like locally focused. Um, but
44:40
let me see if I can find a link
44:40
to that because I think those
44:45
rates were really, really
44:45
compelling. If that's a good
44:48
audience. And, you know, I'd
44:48
love to support like an up and
44:53
coming podcast app that's really
44:53
doing very well right now. So
44:56
we'll try to leave a link in the
44:56
description for you to be able
44:59
to do that. Alright, so one last
44:59
one. And this is just because
45:03
this is something that is near
45:03
and dear to my heart. Lonnie
45:07
said email lists smiley face
45:07
emoji. And man, email lists are
45:13
so good. And there's so much
45:13
about them that I love. So let's
45:17
chat about email lists. For
45:17
podcasts. What I love is, there
45:22
are three ways on the internet
45:22
where you get to reach your
45:25
audience, and nobody gets to
45:25
tell, you know, nobody gets to
45:29
jump in the middle and say,
45:29
we've changed the algorithm, or
45:33
they change the script for you,
45:33
you get to control it, those
45:38
three ways are building your own
45:38
website, because you can always
45:42
switch your hosting somewhere
45:42
else. It's building a podcast,
45:46
because you can always move and
45:46
nobody stops you from reaching
45:49
your audience. And the third is
45:49
sending email directly to your
45:53
audience. And all three of these
45:53
are so powerful, because you're
45:58
in the driver's seat. And they
45:58
are so so hard to grow. These
46:04
are by far the three hardest
46:04
things to grow on the internet.
46:07
And yet they are the three that
46:07
give you the greatest results.
46:11
When you actually do you are
46:11
successful. Because the downside
46:15
of being successful on tik tok
46:15
is Tick Tock can change. And you
46:20
knows that government can ban it
46:20
or something. And then like the
46:23
totally hypothetical
46:24  Travis
situation,
46:25  Alban
yeah. All of a sudden,
46:25
like, you're kind of like, what
46:29
the heck, I did all this work,
46:29
and now it's taken away. Whereas
46:32
in podcasting, blog, and email
46:32
list, that just does not happen.
46:37
Um, so what we what I think with
46:37
email list is the email list,
46:42
besides our podcasts is probably
46:42
the most valuable thing
46:44
Buzzsprout has, these are all
46:44
people who have said, I want to
46:47
learn about podcasting. And so
46:47
every week, we get to send them
46:50
a nice email saying, here's what
46:50
we've thought about for
46:53
podcasting. If I was doing an
46:53
email list for my podcast, I
46:57
would probably send a weekly
46:57
email with some of maybe just
47:02
like the show notes, or maybe
47:02
additional content about the
47:08
podcast, and then a invitation
47:08
for people to listen to the
47:11
show. The nice thing is that
47:11
that's probably already
47:13
happening in the podcast app.
47:13
But it's a way for people if
47:16
you've already got an email list
47:16
to get people onto the podcast.
47:19
And that can also be shared with
47:19
other people. Do you guys have
47:22
like thoughts about email lists
47:22
with podcasting?
47:24  Kevin
Yeah, I love email lists.
47:24
So the thing with the email list
47:28
is, you can't think about it.
47:28
Like, I know a lot of times
47:32
people think of email lists like
47:32
spam and all this junk email
47:35
that I get this is something
47:35
very different when we're
47:37
talking about like a newsletter,
47:37
or somebody who's a fan of your
47:40
podcast, and then giving them a
47:40
way to connect with you on
47:43
another channel. And so it can
47:43
be it can be exactly what Alvin
47:47
said, hey, there's a new
47:47
episode. And here's what I
47:49
talked about. Here's all the
47:49
episodes that you might not have
47:53
listened to, or I'm going to
47:53
highlight something else here
47:55
other podcasts that I'm
47:55
listening to. Here's things that
47:57
are around the internet that I
47:57
found interesting. Again, this
48:01
is this is a way additional way
48:01
for you to connect with your
48:05
audience besides just your
48:05
podcast, because the goal is
48:08
creating superfans, and the
48:08
thing about emails is that
48:11
they're really easy to forward
48:11
as well. So Oh, I forgot to
48:15
listen to your podcast this
48:15
week, I get the email, it
48:17
reminds me to go listen, that
48:17
podcast, I love it. Oh, I'd love
48:19
this episode that you just
48:19
interviewed this person. And
48:21
that was a really great episode,
48:21
I'm going to forward it to a
48:23
friend who might like that. So a
48:23
lot easier to forward an email
48:25
than it is to try to explain to
48:25
somebody how to get a podcast
48:29
app and subscribe to this thing.
48:29
So I love the idea. I think I
48:33
encourage people all the time,
48:33
flush all the junk email
48:36
marketing ideas out of your head
48:36
and think about it as How can
48:39
this be another way that I can
48:39
connect with my audience or
48:41
provide additional value to my
48:41
audience. And when you approach
48:43
it from that angle, I think it's
48:43
a wonderful tool to grow your
48:46
show,
48:46  Alban
man. And the the one
48:46
thing that email can do that
48:49
your podcast can't is it makes
48:49
it really easy for people to
48:51
reply. And so a lot of our
48:51
emails that we send for
48:55
Buzzsprout at the bottom, we say
48:55
and reply to this and like a
48:59
real person will talk to you.
48:59
And so we send it as support.
49:03
And we jump in and respond to
49:03
people. And man that is so
49:08
valuable for us. Because we are
49:08
often sending emails and doing
49:12
podcasts and putting up blogs
49:12
that don't have comments. And
49:16
all that's going out to the
49:16
world. And we don't always know
49:18
if this is resonating with
49:18
people. And the emails where we
49:21
say please respond and let us
49:21
know what you think. Or if you
49:24
have any more questions. Those
49:24
are so positive when people
49:27
write back. And that is really
49:27
life giving when you pour
49:30
yourself into something for a
49:30
week. And then a couple people
49:33
write back and say, Hey, this
49:33
really was helpful. Thank you.
49:37
And so when you send an email,
49:37
make sure you put that at the
49:40
bottom like I respond to I read
49:40
all of these and I respond. That
49:44
is a really valuable thing to
49:44
put in an email because then
49:47
people actually start
49:47
responding. And it is just, I
49:51
can't describe like how much I
49:51
appreciate it when people do
49:55
write back and tell us how
49:55
valuable something we created
49:58
was for them.
49:59  Travis
So if you're interested
49:59
in Getting an email list
50:01
started, maybe you've never done
50:01
any kind of email marketing
50:03
before you can, what you're
50:03
looking for is I believe, called
50:06
CRM software. So that would be
50:06
MailChimp, ConvertKit Active
50:11
Campaign, those kind of
50:11
services, you don't want to
50:14
manage it through your personal
50:14
Gmail account or a Yahoo
50:17
account, you want to set up a
50:17
software that will help manage
50:20
your email list. And most of
50:20
these software's will give you a
50:22
simple web page with a link that
50:22
you can share to your audience.
50:28
And the way that I would
50:28
encourage you to use that is to
50:30
come up with some kind of
50:30
resource that your listeners
50:33
would find valuable. Maybe it's
50:33
a guide, or a tool that you use,
50:37
or an unreleased episode or
50:37
behind the scenes content that
50:42
you can share with them in
50:42
exchange for their email
50:44
address. So you can get your
50:44
existing podcast audience to
50:47
jump on your email list. And
50:47
then now you have two different
50:49
ways to interact with them. So
50:49
that would be the way that I
50:51
would go about getting started
50:51
with email, if you've never done
50:54
it before.
50:56  Alban
Yeah, we're big fans of
50:56
ConvertKit. That's what
50:58
Buzzsprout uses. And now they
50:58
have like a pretty nice, free
51:01
plan. So you could just sign up
51:01
for the free plan and kind of
51:04
start building your list. But
51:04
remember, podcasting, email
51:09
website are all very difficult
51:09
to get started. And they are
51:12
things that are like, it's like
51:12
compound interest in the bank,
51:16
it takes a while to even see
51:16
that anything is working. And
51:19
you're constantly making these
51:19
deposits. And it doesn't look
51:21
like anything's happening, until
51:21
it becomes undeniable, how
51:25
quickly it's growing. And it is
51:25
really valuable. But I can tell
51:29
you, we spent probably three
51:29
years where I felt like I banged
51:33
my head against the wall trying
51:33
to grow Buzzsprout through these
51:35
channels. And we did not see the
51:35
results that we were happy with.
51:39
And then all of a sudden it
51:39
started taking off, it started
51:42
taking off because we put in the
51:42
time we built this email list.
51:46
We built our blog, and we built
51:46
our podcast. And eventually
51:50
there was a critical mass where
51:50
people really started caring and
51:53
responding to it.
51:55  Travis
So that design was
51:55
around July 2018. Somewhere in
51:59
that timeframe. Yeah,
52:00  Alban
I don't know what
52:00
happened in July of 2018.
52:04
Definitely, Travis was like it
52:04
wasn't growing. And then I
52:07
showed up and it was growing. I
52:07
don't know what direction you
52:09
want to draw. But there is
52:09
something there's something it
52:12
is tough. That's why I always
52:12
like this idea of having kind of
52:16
a marketing stack where you're
52:16
like, Hey, I'm really active on
52:20
Facebook, in my facebook group.
52:20
And then I'm always encouraging
52:24
people to go and check out some,
52:24
some stuff on my website. And my
52:29
website is where I get people
52:29
into the email list. And onto
52:32
the podcast, you know, and you
52:32
find one social media that you
52:35
really enjoy. So it could be
52:35
Reddit, it could be Facebook, it
52:38
could be Twitter, it could be
52:38
Tick Tock or Instagram, it
52:41
doesn't matter. Whichever one
52:41
you personally, like spending
52:45
time on, spend time on there as
52:45
your podcast, and then get
52:49
people to these things like the
52:49
email list the podcast, the
52:53
website that actually are
52:53
controlled by you, so that you
52:57
may build up a nice following on
52:57
Instagram. But long term, what
53:01
you're doing is you're building
53:01
up this real following through
53:04
channels that you control.
53:06  Travis
So we hope you guys
53:06
enjoyed that new kind of
53:10
episode. We haven't done an
53:10
episode like this before, or we
53:13
just answered your questions. If
53:13
you enjoyed it, then head over
53:15
to the Facebook group and let us
53:15
know to do more episodes like
53:19
this. And if you're not yet in
53:19
the Facebook group, make sure
53:21
that you join
53:23  Alban
and shout out to Mary Kay
53:23
boot who said she listened to
53:25
four hours of our podcasts
53:25
yesterday. We appreciate it very
53:30
Okay, hope you're not burned out
53:30
on traps. Kevin and I