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episode 35: Podcasters React to "The Social Dilemma" + IAB Certified Stats [transcript]


In this episode, Tom joins us to talk Buzzsprout stats, IAB Certification, adding Transcripts to the RSS Feed, and our reaction to watching "The Social Dilemma" on Netflix.

If you're an app developer or podcast host, here's Buzzsprout's spec document for adding Transcripts to the RSS feed.

Big shoutout to Brad and Jonathan who do a phenomenal job moderating the Buzzsprout Podcast Community on Facebook. Be sure to check out their podcasts!

  • Gay Mystery Podcast hosted by Brad
  • Halfwit History hosted by Jonathan and Kiley


Send an email to support@buzzsprout.com to let us know which stats you'd like us to discuss the next time Tom joins us for Buzzcast.

Buzzsprout's Dynamic Content tool now allows you to save multiple clips in your Dynamic Content Library and track how many downloads each clip receives. Learn more on our New Features page.


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 2020-09-25  46m
 
 
00:00  Kevin
Word is getting out more
00:00
and more about Podcast Addict,
00:02
which I've never used, because I
00:02
don't have an Android phone. But
00:06
I'm super excited. I have.
00:06
Sorry, Tom telling you right
00:09
now, I have ordered an Android
00:09
phone. And it's arrived Friday.
00:13
Wait, Wait,
00:13  Alban
really? I did you bought
00:13
an Android phone for Podcast
00:16
Addict?
00:16  Kevin
Yes. Well, to check that
00:16
out, and some other Android only
00:19
podcast apps,
00:20  Travis
I love how we're making
00:20
a big deal that Kevin has joined
00:22
82% of the world by owning an
00:22
Android phone.
00:24  Kevin
Yeah, I've never I've
00:24
never used one I felt like I
00:27
mean, when I showed you, the
00:27
world,
00:29  Travis
I just made up a number.
00:34  Kevin
So Tom, did we get the
00:34
email that we've been waiting
00:36
for?
00:36  Tom
We got the email we've been
00:36
waiting for.
00:38  Kevin
All right, tell me what
00:38
it says.
00:39  Tom
Well, we are now certified
00:39
by the IAB
00:43  Kevin
What does it stand for
00:43
international Advertising
00:44
Bureau? Is that right?
00:46  Tom
The Interactive Advertising
00:46
Bureau. And so they're an
00:50
organization that supports the
00:50
online advertising industry, and
00:54
how it relates to Buzzsprout.
00:54
And what we do is their
00:56
recommendations for how podcasts
00:56
hosts capture downloads, they've
01:01
kind of become the default
01:01
standard for how we do that, for
01:05
better or for worse, their
01:05
recommendations are the ones
01:08
that pretty much everyone
01:08
follows. And so we've been ibw
01:10
compliant for years, and just
01:10
went ahead and got certified so
01:15
we could get that done.
01:16  Kevin
Yeah, I like that term.
01:16
There's a long history, but it's
01:18
been around since 2009. Is that
01:18
right? Is that when we started
01:21
2009?
01:22  Tom
Yeah, 2008 2009.
01:24  Kevin
And there's a long
01:24
history of Tom and I remember
01:26
sitting in the old house that
01:26
you lived on, on a I won't name
01:30
the street, but I remember
01:30
sitting in that room, and we're
01:33
going through and we're looking
01:33
at log files, and we're like,
01:36
you're like Kevin played that
01:36
episode from your phone, and I'm
01:38
playing it from my iPhone, and
01:38
you're like, Why are there six?
01:41
I'm recording six. Right? What
01:41
is that? And we're trying to
01:44
figure out, you know, how to
01:44
accurately track podcast
01:48
downloads. And so we've been
01:48
very, like when I be released
01:53
their their guidelines for how
01:53
you should track downloads. I
01:58
think they first came out with
01:58
like, v1, like five years ago or
02:00
something. And we looked at it.
02:00
And I remember thinking like,
02:03
Oh, yeah, this is great. We're
02:03
doing all this stuff. But we're
02:05
also doing a bunch of other
02:05
stuff. And so we were trying to
02:08
get into conversations, and
02:08
Tommy joined a couple groups of
02:12
making recommendations and all
02:12
this other kind of stuff. So all
02:16
that to say is that Buzzsprout
02:16
stats have always been, we've
02:19
always been aware that that
02:19
accuracy is very important.
02:22
We've always worked hard to make
02:22
sure that they're, they're very
02:24
accurate. When IB updated their
02:24
guidelines with v2, we looked at
02:27
those obviously, as well. And we
02:27
said, Oh, yeah, we're doing all
02:30
of those things. And so we've
02:30
long stated that we are IB
02:33
compliant, but we never took the
02:33
steps to go through the process.
02:37
And there's various reasons why
02:37
we we hesitated to do that. And
02:41
I won't go into all of those
02:41
things. But at the end of the
02:43
day, it does look like IB has,
02:43
has done a good thing and that
02:47
they've they've gotten enough
02:47
companies, enough people in
02:50
space to rally around one
02:50
specification, it's not maybe
02:54
specifications, not the best
02:54
word maybe guidelines a better
02:56
word. And we're all following
02:56
those, it doesn't mean that
02:58
every number between different
02:58
podcasts hosts are going to
03:01
match exactly, but they should
03:01
be pretty close.
03:03  Tom
Yeah, I think that's an
03:03
important distinction, even you
03:05
know, going through the process,
03:05
you just realize they are
03:07
guidelines. And so to IAB
03:07
certified podcast hosts will
03:12
still have different numbers,
03:12
because there's a lot of
03:14
variation and how you implement
03:14
those guidelines.
03:17  Kevin
So it is a bit of a
03:17
process to go through, it
03:18
doesn't take a terribly long
03:18
time, again, depending on what
03:21
your technology stack looks
03:21
like. But ours was, like I said,
03:24
since 2009, we've been trying to
03:24
be as accurate as possible, and
03:27
have been following these
03:27
guidelines since they came out.
03:30
And so we've long said that we
03:30
are compliant. And so going
03:33
through the process was pretty
03:33
quick. I think we made it in was
03:35
about three weeks,
03:36  Tom
Tom, of your time. Oh, I
03:36
mean, only because we had to
03:39
space out the meetings, it was
03:39
probably a total of 90 minutes
03:43
of meetings to go through our
03:43
code. And part of that is
03:47
because like you said, we were
03:47
already compliant. So we already
03:49
knew the specifications, we
03:49
already knew how to do the
03:53
different things and we didn't
03:53
have to go make any changes as
03:55
we went through the process. The
03:55
other thing is we use Ruby on
03:58
Rails, which is a great
03:58
expressive language that we use
04:01
in our technology stack, which
04:01
made it really simple to be able
04:04
to go through that process.
04:05  Kevin
Alright, so here's where
04:05
the rubber hits the road.
04:07
Because I know that, you know,
04:07
if you listen to the podcasts of
04:11
others in the industry, they
04:11
will tell you as soon as a
04:13
company comes becomes IRB
04:13
compliant, then everyone starts
04:16
on the platform are going to get
04:16
chopped in half or more. Right,
04:19
Tom? So when people log into
04:19
their podcast this week, and
04:21
look at their stats, their
04:21
numbers are gonna be like
04:24
nothing, right? They had 100
04:24
plays last week, and now they're
04:26
gonna log in and see like, 10
04:26
Right,
04:28  Tom
right, right. there's not
04:28
gonna be any difference at all
04:30
because we've been IRB
04:30
compliant. So we've been doing
04:32
this forever.
04:33  Kevin
Wait, no change at all.
04:33
That's what you're saying.
04:36
Right? Right. There will be no
04:36
change. As people log in. They
04:40
don't have to worry. I'm being
04:40
I'm being I'm joking around here
04:44
that that's the point is that we
04:44
get a little we got a little bit
04:47
rubbed, because there's been
04:47
some rhetoric in the industry.
04:51
People saying I be compliant
04:51
doesn't mean anything. And it
04:55
bothers us because we are fans
04:55
of competition and we're we
04:59
don't like any anti competitive
04:59
things we don't like taking
05:01
something like this that a lot
05:01
of people can be doing for free.
05:05
And that don't necessarily have
05:05
the money to get the
05:07
certification. And I'm not
05:07
saying the certification not
05:08
worth the money. It absolutely
05:08
is. And it's a good thing. But
05:11
it's hard for a company that's
05:11
just starting out and wants to
05:14
get into the podcasting space
05:14
because they have a new idea or
05:17
a fresh take on it. And it's
05:17
going to cost a lot of money to
05:21
get that certification. There's
05:21
others in the industry have a
05:23
certification and saying, you
05:23
shouldn't host there, or they're
05:26
not a viable competitor because
05:26
they don't have this
05:27
certification. And we've spoken
05:27
against that. And we support
05:32
other people coming into this
05:32
industry and pushing us and
05:34
driving this whole thing
05:34
forward. We'd love it when a new
05:36
small host pops on the scene and
05:36
starts doing innovative things
05:39
helps us get better, it helps
05:39
podcasters be more successful in
05:42
their shows. And so we don't
05:42
like leveraging the
05:44
certifications are expensive
05:44
tool sets that you have to buy
05:47
or whatever, as a reason not to
05:47
use someone
05:50  Tom
you want innovation in this
05:50
area. That's that's what I feel
05:53
like, especially after going
05:53
through the process, as you
05:55
realize, I mean, things change
05:55
rapidly in this industry. And so
05:59
you want to be able to innovate
05:59
in the way that you do that. And
06:02
so how a podcast host chooses to
06:02
do that right now, you don't
06:06
have a lot of flexibility in
06:06
that
06:07  Alban
yet to kind of maybe take
06:07
a step back for some people who
06:10
may not have followed this for a
06:10
little bit. This is an expensive
06:14
process to go through and get
06:14
actually certified. And that was
06:18
our one of our main things was
06:18
for a long time, like we're
06:20
donating 10s of thousands of
06:20
dollars. And for a lot of people
06:24
in the industry that was cost
06:24
prohibitive. And for us, we went
06:27
well, we already know we're
06:27
following all of this. So we're
06:31
compliant. Why doesn't everyone
06:31
just say they're compliant? And
06:34
then we're good. So we went
06:34
through this really expensive
06:37
process to basically find out
06:37
there was no change on the
06:41
Buzzsprout side. Right? And the
06:41
actually, the biggest change in
06:46
my mind will be when I'm at
06:46
podcast movement. And I have a
06:49
question. It's one goes, are you
06:49
ibw? compliant? I'll just say
06:53
yes, rather than the certified?
06:53
Well, it's not. I'll just say
06:57
certified and come on. Yeah, I
06:57
mean, I'll just say yes. In
07:02
rather than being like, Well,
07:02
no, we have not gone through the
07:05
process, because we don't think
07:05
you need to go through it. And
07:07
then like the minute you try to
07:07
have like a five minute
07:09
discussion, talking to a
07:09
customer, potential customer
07:12
you've already lost. So it's
07:12
like, Alright, well, if the talk
07:16
in the industry for so long has
07:16
been. This is very, very, very
07:20
important enough that some
07:20
customers not a lot, but some
07:24
that was like on their five
07:24
questions to make sure they
07:27
asked. With that in mind, I
07:27
guess like it made sense. For me
07:31
on the marketing side, I was
07:31
happy to be able to add that at
07:34
that checkbox. But in the end,
07:34
it's kind of like a little bit
07:37
of a bummer. Kev. I mean, you
07:37
guys feel like it makes it's
07:41
another one of these things that
07:41
makes it harder for new people
07:44
to get into the industry. And
07:44
help push you know, I don't want
07:47
it to end up being just
07:47
Buzzsprout to other hosts
07:50
someday, where no one ever
07:50
pushes each other. Like we want
07:53
it to be tons of options, so
07:53
that we all push each other. And
07:56
that means kind of keeping the
07:56
barrier to entry low.
07:59  Tom
Here's what I think, for
07:59
the majority of podcasters. They
08:03
don't know what IB is, they
08:03
don't care what IB is. And so
08:06
for the ones that care, it's
08:06
important to be able to answer
08:09
that question. And to be able to
08:09
say, Yes, we are IB certified.
08:13
And for some of our podcasters
08:13
who get into different forms of
08:17
advertising, it could actually
08:17
be helpful for them to say that,
08:21
Oh, I'm with a host who is IAB
08:21
certified, because as an
08:24
advertiser, they might care that
08:24
your stats are certified. And so
08:28
I think it provides some, you
08:28
know, marginal value. But it's
08:31
not the end all be all.
08:33  Travis
So big picture just to
08:33
wrap this up. When you log into
08:36
Buzzsprout, everything's gonna
08:36
look exactly the same that it
08:39
did a week ago. And you can feel
08:39
really confident that what
08:42
you're looking at is an accurate
08:42
representation of your podcast
08:46
stats. Is that fair to say?
08:46
Absolutely. Yes.
08:52  Alban
So Tom, you've been
08:52
spending a little bit of time
08:54
thinking about stats, can we?
08:54
Can we ping you for some more
08:57
stats? Because I know, we've
08:57
gotten a ton of feedback on your
09:02
last appearance on the show
09:02
where you gave, you know, people
09:06
ideas of where their podcasts
09:06
how their podcasts are stacking
09:08
up.
09:09  Tom
Yeah, it's, it's hard
09:09
because I hate for people to
09:13
judge themselves just based on
09:13
numbers. It's easy to do, right?
09:16
It's easy to just compare one
09:16
number to the other and say, am
09:18
I doing better or worse? I hate
09:18
that it happens. But the reality
09:22
is, it happens. So yes, I have
09:22
some numbers that I can share to
09:26
help people who want to compare,
09:26
how am I doing compared to other
09:31
folks. And so what I think is
09:31
most helpful is looking at your
09:36
performance in the first seven
09:36
days after you launch an
09:38
episode. So what I did was I
09:38
looked at 120,000 episodes that
09:44
have been published by
09:44
Buzzsprout in the last 90 to 120
09:48
days, so that way, I could get a
09:48
good amount of data on them. And
09:51
I looked at how many downloads
09:51
they got in the first seven days
09:55
after they launched their
09:55
episode. And so that can give
09:58
you a good indicator of how many
09:58
people are actually coming back
10:01
and listening to your show how
10:01
many, what we used to call
10:03
subscribers, people that you
10:03
know are are following your
10:06
podcast and listen to it
10:06
whenever you launch an episode.
10:09
And what I found was the median
10:09
is about 31. So if you've got
10:12
more than 31 downloads in your
10:12
first seven days, then that
10:16
means you're going to be in the
10:16
top 50% of Buzzsprout
10:20
podcasters. What's interesting
10:20
is I looked at the first 30
10:24
days, and there's not that much
10:24
difference. And so I think,
10:26
really, that's the number that
10:26
we should be using, because
10:28
that's where the majority of the
10:28
downloads occur is in that first
10:31
seven day window.
10:32  Alban
And so for anybody who's
10:32
kind of comparing this to the
10:35
last time, Tom was on the
10:35
podcast, those numbers which
10:38
were closer to like, the median
10:38
number was 100. That was for a
10:43
30 day window for the whole
10:43
podcast, right? Yes. And then
10:47
now we're just talking about a
10:47
single episode. So if you put
10:49
out a single episode, and you're
10:49
getting, what do you say 31 is
10:55  Tom
the median. So if you log
10:55
in to your Buzzsprout site, and
10:59
you go to your stats section,
10:59
and you click on any of your
11:02
episodes, and it shows how it
11:02
performed in the first seven
11:04
days, that's the number I'm
11:04
talking about here.
11:07  Kevin
Right, which is a good
11:07
indicator, possibly for how many
11:10
like active subscribers you have
11:10
on your show, because we would
11:13
expect that every time you
11:13
publish, anybody who's
11:16
subscribed will download that
11:16
episode within the first week at
11:19
some point,
11:20  Tom
right? Right. That's why I
11:20
think as as we're trying to
11:22
figure out, what's the best way
11:22
that we can succinctly
11:24
communicate, you know, these
11:24
numbers in a way that people can
11:28
understand and process it. And
11:28
then this is what I'm kind of
11:31
leaning towards. I think this is
11:31
a really good indicator.
11:34  Alban
So Tom, amazon music is
11:34
out. I got you to give me a
11:38
stat, the very first day verse
11:38
from the first eight hours, we
11:41
saw a decent amount of over 1000
11:41
downloads across Buzzsprout. So
11:46
people were starting to find
11:46
their podcasts. And I know we've
11:49
seen an uptick Gemini updates,
11:49
like how is amazon music doing
11:53
across Buzzsprout?
11:54  Tom
Sure. So we've had 15,000
11:54
of our podcasters have submitted
12:00
their podcasts to Amazon, amazon
12:00
music slash audible. So 15,000
12:05
podcasts have submitted. And
12:05
we've seen as we're recording
12:09
right now, I checked right
12:09
before I came in, we have about
12:11
54,000 downloads from amazon
12:11
music. So it's not, you know,
12:16
it's not as significant as some
12:16
of the other directories right
12:19
now. But it's quickly going up.
12:19
So we'll see that this continues
12:23
to rise. And I'm sure there'll
12:23
be a big player, you know, in
12:27
the next coming weeks,
12:28  Alban
so 15,000 people have
12:28
submitted, a lot of people need
12:32
to submit, that's actually
12:32
pretty surprising that it's that
12:35
low right now.
12:36  Tom
Yeah, I was surprised, I
12:36
thought it was gonna be higher
12:38
than that, because I would think
12:38
everybody would go in and do
12:41
that.
12:41  Alban
Yeah, if you are on
12:41
Buzzsprout, like just over two
12:44
directories, and just start
12:44
clicking like most of the
12:46
directories that anyone that we
12:46
can set up one click submission
12:50
we have. And so you could just
12:50
go through and click and submit
12:54
your showed all these
12:54
directories. And, you know, get
12:56
in front of a few more
12:56
listeners, if the median is only
12:59
31. Actual, probably
12:59
subscribers. Getting a couple
13:03
extra really, you know, puts
13:03
your helps your podcast a little
13:06
bit better.
13:07  Tom
Yeah, one of the things
13:07
that we do at Buzzsprout is
13:09
really try to make it easy to
13:09
get your podcast out to the
13:12
world and different directories
13:12
is a great way to do that. And
13:16
so going into the directory
13:16
section, it's something that
13:18
we're updating all the time,
13:18
we're adding new directories,
13:22
making it as simple as we can to
13:22
be able to get it out to the
13:25
largest audience possible. And
13:25
Amazon obviously, is huge. And
13:29
so this will, this will be big
13:29
for people.
13:31  Travis
So where does amazon
13:31
music fit into the other
13:34
directories? If we look at just
13:34
how many downloads we're getting
13:38
from each of these directories,
13:38
like Apple podcasts, and Spotify
13:40
and things like that? Where are
13:40
they currently ranked in the
13:42
pecking order? Have they broken
13:42
the top 10 yet?
13:44  Tom
No, It'll take a while
13:44
because it's only been what
13:46
since last last week. So it's
13:46
been less than a week for them
13:50
to really get some some
13:50
downloads in there. But uh,
13:54
we'll be watching them right
13:54
now. They're not, they're not in
13:56
the top 10. So it's pretty
13:56
consistent. Even looking month
13:59
to month, I was looking at the
13:59
numbers that we shared from July
14:02
and comparing them to August.
14:02
And it's there's not that much
14:05
of a difference, really. So
14:05
you're still talking about 50%
14:09
of downloads are from Apple
14:09
podcasts from the actual Apple
14:12
podcasts app. So just over 50%,
14:12
Spotify, almost 19%. And then
14:19
from there, there's a big drop,
14:19
and then you're looking at the
14:22
two to 3%. And there's a bunch
14:22
of players that are constantly
14:25
juggling around in their cast
14:25
box and podcast addict, overcast
14:29
Stitcher. They're all in that
14:29
two to 3% range.
14:32  Alban
Yeah, that's cool. I'd
14:32
love to see. I know when john
14:35
ran his podcast stats over like,
14:35
a 10 year period. And I think
14:40
we've got that on the YouTube
14:40
channels. JOHN go through that
14:42
presentation. Spotify, like
14:42
jumps as soon as they launched,
14:47
but the slow and steady grower
14:47
is a castbox like year after
14:52
year castbox was getting a
14:52
little bit more a little bit
14:55
more. And they never had that
14:55
like Spotify moment where they
14:58
jumped 10% but uh They've
14:58
consistently, you know, been
15:02
creeping their way up there.
15:03  Kevin
Yeah. And you know, who's
15:03
who I've noticed lately is
15:05
podcast addict. They're like the
15:05
number one third party podcast
15:09
app for Android. It's a really
15:09
good app, and they keep continue
15:13
to grow and words getting out
15:13
more and more about podcast
15:17
addict, which I've never used,
15:17
because I don't have an Android
15:19
phone. But I'm super excited. I
15:19
have. Sorry, Tom telling you
15:23
right now. I have ordered an
15:23
Android phone. And it's arrived
15:26
Friday. Wait, Wait,
15:28  Alban
really? I did you bought
15:28
an Android phone for podcast
15:31
addict?
15:31  Kevin
Yes. Well, to check that
15:31
out, and some other Android only
15:34
podcast apps, I got the pixel
15:34
for a, which was the highest
15:38
rated phone, like that matched
15:38
my budget criteria, which was
15:41
like under $500. So it's $350.
15:41
It comes Friday, I'm super
15:46
excited to see what have is
15:46
happening on Android in the
15:49
podcasting space. I love
15:50  Travis
how we're making a big
15:50
deal that Kevin has joined 82%
15:53
of the world by owning an
15:53
Android phone.
15:55  Kevin
Yeah, I've never, I've
15:55
never used one I felt like I
15:57
mean, when I showed you to the
15:57
world,
15:59  Travis
I just made up a number.
15:59
It's like it's 60 something at
16:03
least Yeah, I think it's higher,
16:03
I think it's like 87, that's
16:05
high
16:05  Tom
23% of our downloads are
16:05
from Android devices. So yeah,
16:10
probably makes sense to to go
16:10
ahead and buy one habit around
16:12
the office.
16:13  Kevin
Numbers gonna start going
16:13
up after Friday, after Friday.
16:18  Alban
jobs like I'm seeing an
16:18
anomaly in here. Somebody is
16:20
listening over and over on
16:20
Android, a
16:24  Tom
big fan of the Buzzcast
16:24
podcast.
16:26  Travis
Any other noteworthy
16:26
things that you think would be
16:28
good mentioning, Tom, before we
16:28
move on?
16:31  Tom
The other stats are pretty
16:31
much in line with with what they
16:34
were last month, it's no
16:34
surprise that, you know,
16:36
majority of the plays over 80%
16:36
are mobile, over 50%, United
16:41
States 54%. And then UK and
16:41
Canada at 5.7 5.1%. So I think
16:47
they're, they don't aren't
16:47
moving very much from month to
16:51
month. But so not nothing else
16:51
too surprising in there.
16:54  Travis
Very cool. Well, if
16:54
you're listening to this, and
16:55
there's a particular stat that
16:55
you're curious about, or
16:58
something you want us to dig
16:58
into more, just shoot us an
17:01
email at support@buzzsprout.com.
17:01
And we'll make sure that we ask
17:04
Tom that next time. He joins us
17:04
for Buzzcast Alright, so last
17:10
episode, Kevin did something
17:10
very non Kevin like You teased
17:15
something You teased? Something
17:15
was coming out something was
17:18
eminence. Yeah. About
17:18
transcript?
17:21  Kevin
Yeah, I know where you're
17:21
going with this. I got it. Okay.
17:25  Tom
It's been teed up. It's
17:25
been teed up.
17:27  Kevin
Right. So it's been years
17:27
that Buzzsprout has been
17:29
collecting transcripts through,
17:29
I don't know our we call it our
17:33
UI through our user interface
17:33
through when you log into
17:35
Buzzsprout. You can upload a
17:35
transcript and associated with a
17:38
podcast episode. And we have
17:38
been big advocates of doing
17:42
this. And lots of different
17:42
reasons. main one being
17:45
accessibility to is like the
17:45
search engine optimization or
17:49
marketing capabilities of your
17:49
show. It's good all around. We
17:52
know that not everybody can do
17:52
this for every episode. But if
17:54
you can, we always encourage it.
17:54
And so we've been thinking about
17:58
how can we use these transcripts
17:58
in even more ways. And one of
18:02
the most obvious ways plays out
18:02
in podcast listening apps. Right
18:08
now, if you listen in Apple
18:08
podcasts, or in pocket, a
18:12
podcast addict or one of these
18:12
things, if there's a transcript
18:15
associated with the episode,
18:15
anybody listening through those
18:17
apps does not have access to it.
18:17
And so we set out to change
18:19
that, and have completed the
18:19
work to do it. And so as of
18:23
right now, if you have
18:23
transcripts applied to any of
18:26
your episodes, if you actually
18:26
inspect your feed, I know it
18:28
just looks like a whole bunch of
18:28
code. But if you look through
18:30
that code, you would see there's
18:30
a new tag in there. It says
18:33
podcast colon transcripts, and
18:33
there's a link to one or more
18:37
transcript. Tom doesn't want to
18:37
come files, what do you want to
18:40
comment on something else, you
18:40
can say transcripts? Okay,
18:43
transcripts. So they're
18:43
available in various formats,
18:45
HTML, SRT, and JSON. And
18:45
depending how the app developer
18:49
wants to interact with those
18:49
with that content, they can
18:52
choose the file format that they
18:52
want. And also, depending on
18:55
what you provided us that might
18:55
limit the formats that are
18:58
available. So if you've pasted
18:58
in your own transcript that
19:01
you've written from a Word
19:01
document or something like that,
19:03
that's only going to be
19:03
available in HTML. If you've
19:06
used temi. Or if you've used a
19:06
script, then we have higher
19:09
fidelity data. So now we can
19:09
provide transcripts in the SRT
19:13
format in JSON format. Again,
19:13
all this stuff doesn't matter.
19:16
All the technology that's
19:16
happening behind the scenes
19:18
doesn't matter. What does matter
19:18
is that we're hoping we're
19:21
starting to work with and reach
19:21
out to different podcast app
19:23
developers to see if they will
19:23
take advantage of this new data
19:26
that we're pushing through your
19:26
RSS feed to be able to offer
19:29
your audience a different way to
19:29
consume the content. So again,
19:34
think about I like thinking
19:34
about this in terms of like when
19:36
you listen to music, if anybody
19:36
uses Apple Music, or there's
19:40
another popular music listening
19:40
app starts with an S I can't
19:43
remember some people use that
19:43
there's a way to go into lyrics
19:47
mode like when you're listening
19:47
to your music so you can see the
19:50
meat the the words of the song
19:50
that you're listening, and
19:52
that's always a fun game to
19:52
play. Like you've sung a song a
19:54
certain way for 10 years of your
19:54
life and then you go into lyrics
19:57
mode, you realize you've been
19:57
singing the wrong lyric, the
19:59
same type of thing can happen in
19:59
podcasting. So again, whether
20:02
you're having hearing disability
20:02
or not, there's massive benefits
20:05
to being able to see the
20:05
transcript along with what
20:08
you're listening. And what's the
20:08
alternative, right? Just to
20:11
stare at the cover art for that
20:11
podcast. And so, if you're in a
20:16
place, when you're listening to
20:16
a podcast, where you have your
20:18
phone out, it's not in your
20:18
pocket, or you're not driving in
20:20
your car, being able to go into
20:20
transcript mode and read along
20:23
with while you're listening, I
20:23
think has a lot of advantages.
20:25
Make sure you're hearing
20:25
everything correctly, or I they
20:29
just said that really quickly.
20:29
What did they say like being
20:31
able to look at the words,
20:31
there's a lot of benefits. And
20:34
so we're really excited. And I
20:34
think this could be a huge step
20:39
forward for podcasting, and the
20:39
number of people who were able
20:43
to enjoy this meeting that we'd
20:43
love so much.
20:46  Travis
So Kevin, real quick,
20:46
you mentioned that if you had
20:48
copied and pasted in your own
20:48
kind of unformatted Word
20:53
document transcripts, that we
20:53
wouldn't have as much
20:56
information as if you would use
20:56
a transcription service. So
20:59
let's say someone is using
20:59
something like otter.ai, which
21:02
is what we use to transcribe all
21:02
of our Buzzcast episodes, right?
21:06
Is there a particular best
21:06
practice for how to export those
21:10
transcripts to make sure that we
21:10
have as much information as we
21:13
can possibly get to be able to
21:13
collect and give to those apps?
21:17  Tom
Yeah, yeah, definitely, we
21:17
want the most information we can
21:21
get in right now. descript
21:21
provides us with the information
21:25
that we're looking for our
21:25
timestamps. And so the script
21:28
provides us with the most
21:28
information because they provide
21:30
us with timestamps for each word
21:30
in the transcript, which is
21:33
phenomenal. With otter, you can
21:33
actually export it as an SRT,
21:39
which gives us some timestamps
21:39
around about 64 characters worth
21:44
of words. And so it's a, it's
21:44
not as high fidelity as what
21:48
you're going to get from the
21:48
script and even Timmy, but it's
21:50
at least better. And so we're
21:50
working on making it so that
21:53
you'll be able to upload those
21:53
transcripts in that format and
21:56
the SRT format. And so that's
21:56
something that people can look
21:59
for, in the next few days.
21:59
rolling out
22:02  Travis
well in SRT is like a
22:02
very common transcript closed
22:04
caption format. So if you're
22:04
using a transcription service,
22:08
you should be able to export as
22:08
an SRT file. And if you upload
22:10
that to Buzzsprout, we can
22:10
absolutely can parse that
22:12
correctly. Yeah,
22:13  Tom
SRT is a great, it's a
22:13
great format, because it's so
22:16
standard, it should be readily
22:16
available anywhere. And so that
22:20
that's why we want to be able to
22:20
provide it in that format. so
22:23
other people can consume it,
22:23
other app developers can use it.
22:26
But it really is a good format,
22:28  Kevin
right. And the goal here
22:28
was we talked about fidelity and
22:32
how many timestamps that we get
22:32
when you give us a transcript,
22:35
that lets app developers have
22:35
more flexibility. So the more
22:38
the higher fidelity of the data
22:38
that you give them, then they
22:41
can do more things. Like they
22:41
can highlight each word as you
22:43
say it. versus if we go with an
22:43
SRT file, they only know like,
22:48
in 64 character blocks, what
22:48
you're talking about, you're
22:51
saying at that moment, which I
22:51
think is totally fine, like when
22:54
I listen to music all the time.
22:54
And I'm always in lyrics mode.
22:57
And they're not highlighting
22:57
every word, they're kind of
22:59
highlighting a sentence or two
22:59
at a time as as the song is
23:02
going by. But as Tom points out,
23:02
like future proofing the idea of
23:07
getting the most data that we
23:07
can, because we have no idea how
23:10
app developers are going to use
23:10
this stuff, when they launch or
23:13
five years down the road, the
23:13
more data that we can provide,
23:15
the better. And so SRT is a
23:15
great format. Most transcription
23:18
services will allow you to
23:18
export SRT and Buzzsprout is
23:21
going to start allowing you to
23:21
upload SRT files, but will
23:24
continue to look for more
23:24
services like temi and descript,
23:27
that give us the highest
23:27
fidelity possible, which is a
23:29
timestamp on every word. So that
23:29
we're you know, prepared for
23:33
whatever comes in five years
23:33
down the road, when you're
23:35
looking at holographic
23:35
transcripts as you're listening
23:38
to podcasts will be ready.
23:39  Tom
So to sum up where we are,
23:39
we launched this what was it
23:44
Monday, we started rolling this
23:44
into people's transcripts. And
23:48
so now we are into people's RSS
23:48
feeds. And so now we are serving
23:51
up over 43,000 transcripts are
23:51
available in people's RSS feeds.
23:57
And so now it's working with
23:57
those app developers to see Hey,
23:59
guys, this information is now
23:59
available. How can we bring it
24:03
into the player because that's
24:03
not something that Buzzsprout
24:05
can drive, but we can provide
24:05
you with that information to be
24:08
able to do that. And so that's
24:08
where we are right now was
24:10
working with those app
24:10
developers on incorporating
24:13
those transcripts.
24:14  Kevin
Yep, we have a bunch of
24:14
warm leads. And we have maybe
24:17
one or more confirmed yeses. So
24:17
that'll be an exciting
24:20
announcement. Look for that in
24:20
the next couple weeks. Hopefully
24:22
next time we get together to
24:22
record, we'll be able to name
24:24
some partners. And Albert and I
24:24
will work on a little blog post
24:27
or press release or something
24:27
announcing who's committed to
24:29
working with us. And we have a
24:29
spec document to which we could
24:32
link in the show notes if we
24:32
want that talks about, Hey, if
24:35
you're in the podcast hosting
24:35
game yourself, or if you're an
24:38
app developer, you're interested
24:38
in incorporating this into
24:40
anything that you're doing. We
24:40
have an open dock we want
24:44
everyone to play
24:45  Tom
not just us. And it is
24:45
properly listed in our RSS feeds
24:48
so anybody can look at it.
24:50  Kevin
So that's what you want
24:50
me to talk about, right?
24:53  Travis
Yeah, I wanted to talk
24:53
about spec docs
24:55  Tom
and SRT formats and
24:55
fidelity.
25:01  Travis
So last we have the
25:01
social dilemma who wants to
25:04
launch us into that one?
25:06  Kevin
This is what I think is
25:06
important. I think if you're
25:08
listening to this podcast right
25:08
now I think you should find out
25:10
find a way to look to go watch
25:10
the social dilemma. It's a
25:13
Netflix documentary, or is it a
25:13
documentary like a movie? I
25:17
mean, there's there's some genre
25:17
for this. That's like a movie
25:20
and a documentary combined in
25:20
one there's a story there
25:23  Travis
probably just a
25:23
documentary or doc docu style.
25:26  Alban
It's it's actually a docu
25:26
drama docu drama is that 2020
25:31
American docu drama film.
25:33  Kevin
Yeah, I knew that come up
25:33
with a cool name for it docu
25:35
drama is my new favorite genre.
25:37  Alban
I only watch docu dramas,
25:37
my life
25:39  Travis
is a docu drama.
25:40  Kevin
So if you're listening to
25:40
this, you're a podcaster, you're
25:43
interested in podcasting, you
25:43
need to go watch this, you need
25:45
to go figure out a way to watch
25:45
this, if you don't have Netflix,
25:47
you know, go babysit somebody
25:47
kids that has Netflix and watch
25:50
this. And you know, after you
25:50
take care of the kids, of
25:53
course, but it is a really good.
25:53
Gosh, it's just it's shocking,
26:00
in a lot of ways. I watched it.
26:00
And then I immediately sent it
26:03
to my wife and my teenage
26:03
daughter, we've always known
26:06
that tracking is going on. And
26:06
they're using really
26:10
sophisticated techniques to
26:10
figure out what we're interested
26:12
in and hold our attention and
26:12
get us to watch more. Anytime
26:14
you try to put the phone down
26:14
there on the other end, trying
26:17
to get you to pick it back up.
26:17
We've known this stuff. But
26:19
being able to the way they
26:19
capture it in the way they talk
26:22
about it the way that they get
26:22
industry experts like they get
26:24
the people behind the scenes who
26:24
actually built this technology,
26:27
we're on the teams talking about
26:27
it and how they've now seen the
26:30
unintended consequences of what
26:30
they've done and feel bad and
26:34
are trying to move away from it
26:34
themselves and protect their
26:36
families for themselves. Is it I
26:36
mean, shocking, I was really, I
26:40
don't know how to describe it
26:40
besides shocking. And I've been
26:43
a privacy advocate and against
26:43
all of this stuff for a long
26:45
time. And even I was caught off
26:45
guard. But some of the problems
26:49
that are coming again,
26:49
unintended, there was no malice
26:53
when Facebook set out to build a
26:53
revenue stream around their
26:56
service. But you look at some of
26:56
the things that are going on in
27:00
the world right now. And these
27:00
people, these experts are
27:04
convinced that social media and
27:04
these algorithms are a large
27:07
part of
27:08  Tom
it. Yeah, I mean, one of
27:08
the most shocking things that
27:11
they talked about was how it's
27:11
not just changing your behavior
27:15
and your purchase habits is
27:15
changing your behavior overall,
27:19
that they're actually able to
27:19
get people to do things that
27:23
they might, they don't even
27:23
realize that it's a result of
27:25
what they're experiencing. They
27:25
had an example of Facebook and
27:29
getting people to go out and
27:29
vote, which is a great thing.
27:32
But what happens when Facebook
27:32
is now doing it, and they're
27:34
trying to get you to go do
27:34
something else, you know, like
27:37
they're changing people's
27:37
behavior. That's crazy.
27:41  Kevin
One of the most startling
27:41
statements in the whole movie
27:44
was like that they started
27:44
talking about did Russia hack
27:47
facebook to influence the last
27:47
election? And they have experts
27:51
from the Facebook team are
27:51
saying they didn't hack
27:53
facebook, they used it. Right?
27:53
The tools are there. This is how
27:58
companies use Facebook, and
27:58
whether you want to influence
28:01
somebody to buy your widget or
28:01
to vote a certain way. The tools
28:04
are there to allow you to do
28:04
that.
28:06  Alban
You know, we think Well,
28:06
what's the problem with voting
28:08
if someone's being encouraged to
28:08
vote? Well, that's not the
28:11
problem. The problem is that we
28:11
have companies like Facebook
28:13
that have the power to influence
28:13
your likelihood to vote. And
28:18
they also know so much about you
28:18
that they probably with like 98%
28:22
accuracy know who you will vote
28:22
for. So let's imagine it doesn't
28:26
matter where you are on the
28:26
political spectrum. If Facebook
28:29
says we want candidate a or
28:29
candidate B, then they can make
28:33
it more likely that the people
28:33
who are going to vote for
28:35
candidate a see all this
28:35
positive stuff about voting. Do
28:39
I think they're doing it right
28:39
now, as a company that's like
28:42
their policy? No, I don't think
28:42
that they're doing that right
28:44
now. But one of the tenants of
28:44
like democratic society is that
28:49
we do not give this inordinate
28:49
amount of power to any group.
28:53
And our government is limited so
28:53
that the government can't run
28:57
over our lives. But instead, now
28:57
we have companies that have just
29:01
this incredible amount of power.
29:04  Kevin
And here's the scary
29:04
thing, though. Alban, it's not
29:07
limited to Facebook. It's these
29:07
tools are available to anybody
29:10
who wants to use them to push
29:10
anything.
29:12  Tom
I mean, it's a well defined
29:12
science. That's what was funny
29:15
is that some of the people that
29:15
are on the on the docu drama,
29:17
they're experts, and they're
29:17
like, I used to teach this
29:20
stuff. And then I realized how
29:20
it was being used. They've
29:24
created a whole science around
29:24
this whole economy around this.
29:27
And it's, it's just out of
29:27
control, like the people who set
29:31
it up are no longer in control
29:31
of it. And so that's what's
29:33
scary when you talk about
29:33
Facebook as the example. Well,
29:37
what happens when they lose
29:37
control, and now it's something
29:40
else?
29:40  Alban
Well, one thing that's
29:40
super interesting is I know that
29:43
social dilemma has a lot to do.
29:43
Tristan Harris is one of the
29:46
main people in it. And he said
29:46
for a long time, like pretty
29:50
much everybody who started
29:50
Instagram and Facebook and so
29:53
many of these groups, all of
29:53
them went to school at Stanford,
29:58
and were part of the J Fox
29:58
persuasion Technology Lab, like
30:02
it's this one area of the world
30:02
that said, oh, here's how you
30:06
convince people to do things.
30:06
And it's not bad when you're
30:11
saying, oh, why don't you engage
30:11
with the app a little more. But
30:14
at some point, they become so
30:14
good at it. That is very, very
30:20
bad. It's not like, oh, why
30:20
don't you spend an extra seven
30:23
minutes on Facebook? it, you are
30:23
not going out spending time with
30:27
your family, because you were
30:27
spending eight hours a day
30:31
looking at Tick tock, or
30:31
something. And like, whatever
30:35
the thing may be, it's not a
30:35
positive thing for people to be
30:38
spending, you know, all this
30:38
time and all their life, just
30:42
totally addicted to their
30:42
phones. And there is these
30:45
massive teams. Now, the smartest
30:45
people in our generation, are
30:49
trying to figure out how to get
30:49
people to click on a few more
30:51
ads and spend a few more
30:51
dollars. spend a little bit more
30:54
time watching YouTube. Look at
30:54
another commercial.
30:57  Travis
Yeah, I just finished
30:57
reading a book called How to
30:59
break up with your phone. I was
30:59
like, Oh, that's perfect. I need
31:02
that. Yeah, it was really good.
31:02
I mean, it's the first half of
31:05
the book was here, all the ways
31:05
that your phone is designed to
31:08
keep your attention. And then
31:08
here's like a 30 day detox of
31:12
like, step by step by step how
31:12
to reorient your relationship
31:15
with your phone to be more
31:15
healthy, like so you don't feel
31:19
like man, I'm spending all this
31:19
time in my phone, sitting on the
31:22
couch next to my kid who's
31:22
playing and what's my attention,
31:25
like being able to kind of
31:25
decouple yourself from that,
31:27
that addiction, and just had to
31:27
have a good relationship with
31:30
your phone
31:31  Tom
and think of it this way.
31:31
We're grown adults trying to
31:34
decouple that addiction, right?
31:34
When they start going through
31:36
the statistics of how it's
31:36
affecting, especially middle
31:40
schoolers, and high schoolers,
31:40
you're talking about, like, we
31:45
have a lot of skills at our
31:45
disposal as adults and living
31:48
here for a long time. And they
31:48
don't. And it was, at first I
31:52
was like, oh docu drama, that,
31:52
you know, they have these little
31:56
skits going, and I'm like, this
31:56
is kind of cheesy, but about
31:59
halfway through it. It's moving,
31:59
because you're watching the
32:02
effect that it has I mean,
32:02
dramatize. But on the middle
32:07
school daughter, I mean, I
32:07
paused it, I literally I paused
32:10
it, I went and I got my daughter
32:10
who was asking to get an
32:12
Instagram account, I made her
32:12
sit down on the couch next to
32:15
me. And we rewound it, and we
32:15
watched that whole section
32:17
together, because it's just it
32:17
has a profound impact on on
32:21
their lives. Getting all this
32:21
exposure, all these different
32:25
touch points with the outside
32:25
world. It's just not. It's just
32:29
it's not the way it's meant to
32:29
be. And it's a it has a lot of
32:33
negative side effects that they
32:33
talk about.
32:35  Alban
Well, when you think
32:35
we're running this experiment,
32:37
yeah, our kids kids saying,
32:37
here's what we're gonna do,
32:41
we're not just going to have it
32:41
on TV, we're actually going to
32:43
have all that you see, are
32:43
completely photoshopped and fake
32:47
images, everyone has been
32:47
altered significantly. And we're
32:52
going to see how you end up at
32:52
the end when you're out of
32:56
college. Like how do you view
32:56
your relationship to your own
32:59
body? How do you see the world?
32:59
How do you feel about yourself?
33:03
And like, not surprisingly,
33:03
rates of anxiety and depression
33:08
and children and high school
33:08
college are skyrocketing. Well,
33:13
why is that? Because we're
33:13
running an experiment. Say what
33:15
happens if you expose people to
33:15
the most beautiful photoshopped
33:19
images in the world for their
33:19
entire formative years? Turns
33:23
out people actually think, Oh,
33:23
I'm not good enough. Because I
33:26
don't look like that or have
33:26
that much money or have those
33:29
things when that's all we expose
33:29
them to.
33:31  Kevin
So I think it's worth
33:31
just redirecting the shift just
33:34
a little bit back to podcasting.
33:38  Alban
Welcome to us hating guy
33:38
social media podcast is all new
33:41
show.
33:42  Kevin
Right? One of the things
33:42
that the social dilemma does
33:45
well is it talks about the
33:45
problems and the the dangers
33:50
that are happening in the social
33:50
world right now. And so they
33:54
track it back to the roots a
33:54
little bit. And at the end of
33:55
the day, none of these companies
33:55
set out to increase depression
33:59
in teens, none of these
33:59
companies set out to make phone
34:03
addiction, a problem that people
34:03
now have to break themselves of
34:06
this bad habit. They didn't set
34:06
out with these malicious goals.
34:09
They set out to drive revenue
34:09
for a product that they were
34:13
giving away for free. Right,
34:13
they needed to be able to
34:15
continue to provide their
34:15
product for free. And they knew
34:19
that if they did that well
34:19
enough and got enough attention.
34:21
It's like some terms they use,
34:21
like attention economy, if they
34:24
drove attention high enough,
34:24
they would have enough revenue
34:28
to grow their businesses and it
34:28
worked really, really well. And
34:32
these companies are huge the
34:32
biggest companies in the world
34:35
right now, except for Apple, who
34:35
is a privacy centric company.
34:38
But the Facebook's and the
34:38
Twitter's and the Pinterest and
34:41
the you know, well, I was gonna
34:41
say Instagram, but that's owned
34:44
by Facebook and tick tock and
34:44
who knows what's gonna happen
34:47
Tick Tock. They're all driven by
34:47
the more attention that they can
34:51
get of yours, the more revenue
34:51
they can drive for their
34:53
company. This stuff does not
34:53
exist in podcasting yet, but it
34:58
is certainly Jumping on the
34:58
radar of like minded people,
35:04
people who have seen the success
35:04
in these other industries. And
35:08
I've said, Hey, podcasting is
35:08
starting to get a lot of
35:11
people's attention. There are a
35:11
lot of people listening to
35:13
podcasts. This is really
35:13
interesting. How can we leverage
35:18
this to grow? You know, who is
35:18
going to be the YouTube, in in
35:24
the podcasting space. Spotify
35:24
has certainly been turned on to
35:27
this. Maybe there are others.
35:27
And I don't want to slander
35:31
anybody's not moving in that
35:31
direction. But at least you've
35:33
heard our opinions on this show
35:33
that we believe that Spotify is
35:38
keenly aware of the
35:38
opportunities that exist in
35:40
podcasting, and they're going
35:40
all in on it. And there, there
35:43
could be others. So this doesn't
35:43
have to be a slam fest on
35:45
Spotify. I want to talk about
35:45
like the industry overall, like
35:51
dynamic ad insertion, non hosted
35:51
ads, these things are great for
35:55
independent podcasters. Because
35:55
we're small, independent show,
35:58
if we want to do a host art ad,
35:58
we can create a relationship
36:00
with an advertiser, they give us
36:00
a little bit of money, we talk
36:03
about a product that we like on
36:03
our show, it's fantastic. It
36:06
doesn't scale. It doesn't scale
36:06
to millions and millions and
36:09
millions of impressions. It
36:09
doesn't solve the problem of
36:12
Hey, this person hasn't listened
36:12
to a podcast in three days, how
36:16
do we trigger them to get them
36:16
to listen to another podcast so
36:18
that we can make more money,
36:18
which is the most profitable ad
36:21
to serve up in this podcast
36:21
based on the age you know,
36:24
demographic information,
36:24
geographic information, time of
36:26
day mood of the person,
36:26
relationships, a person's in
36:29
everything that we know about
36:29
this person, it doesn't scale to
36:31
that. But people are trying to
36:31
build technology to introduce
36:36
this stuff into podcasting. And
36:36
if you like what podcasting is
36:40
like today, and you see the
36:40
problems associated with all of
36:44
that ad tech, like we have to
36:44
try to do something,
36:48  Tom
right, I think raising
36:48
awareness, like at least we need
36:51
to be aware, it's one of the
36:51
most common things that we hear
36:55
in our Facebook group. And if
36:55
anybody ever cancels Buzzsprout,
36:58
which rarely happens, but if
36:58
somebody were to cancel their
37:00
Buzzsprout account, they are
37:00
canceling because they want a
37:03
free service. And that scares
37:03
me, because what you're saying
37:07
is I want to jump into the
37:07
attention economy, I want to
37:10
sell my attention to somebody
37:10
else. And in I'm going to get
37:15
rewarded for that with free
37:15
hosting. And I never want to
37:18
participate in that I just don't
37:18
want to do that.
37:21  Alban
It's actually preferable
37:21
for us when people leave to go
37:23
to another paid host. Because
37:23
we're like, okay, that's still
37:26
in alignment with what we
37:26
believe is the right way to do
37:30
this. Because you're paying for
37:30
this service to get your message
37:34
out to your audience. And you're
37:34
still participating in this
37:38
growing this overall ecosystem.
37:38
When someone goes to one of
37:41
these free hosts, the only way
37:41
they can ever work and actually
37:45
make money is if they
37:45
drastically increase the amount
37:48
of people listening, they
37:48
drastically increase the number
37:51
of ads sold. And they
37:51
drastically increase the mount
37:55
of money they make per ad. Well,
37:55
that means they have to learn
37:58
everything about your listeners
37:58
that they can they have to
38:01
connect it to all these existing
38:01
profiles online, so that they
38:06
can piece together, how old you
38:06
are, what you're likely to do,
38:10
what you're in the mood to
38:10
purchase. And we all know these
38:14
times, you're like, oh, is my
38:14
phone listening to me? Because
38:15
it's weird. I got these, you
38:15
know, these ads at the right at
38:18
the right time. The creepier
38:18
thing is they're not listening
38:21
to you. Just the things you do
38:21
on your Facebook account are so
38:25
obvious to them what you want,
38:25
that they can serve you the
38:28
perfect dad, they don't have to
38:28
listen to your conversations to
38:31
figure it out. It's just the
38:31
stuff that you're doing on
38:34
Facebook and online with them
38:34
tracking you. And it's just
38:37
incredible, that we are kind of
38:37
inviting this into podcasting.
38:41
Because the reason this is so
38:41
such a nice area of the web is
38:47
because we haven't invited all
38:47
this like creepy ad tech into
38:52
the industry. And yet there's
38:52
still some pretty large players
38:55
hoping that that's the way we
38:55
go.
38:57  Travis
Yeah, that's one of the
38:57
big reasons that we are all big
38:59
fans of overcast. Because Marko
38:59
does a great job of just being
39:03
on top of this kind of stuff.
39:03
And Kevin, I know that he just
39:06
released a new update for
39:06
overcast. What is the what are
39:10
the new privacy things look
39:11  Alban
like? Kevin won't know
39:11
cuz Disney go on Android.
39:15  Kevin
So guys, I'm not going.
39:15
I'm going to have both I'm gonna
39:19
have iOS and Android. Yeah, so
39:19
if, if you're interested in
39:23
privacy, you might want to check
39:23
out overcast. The latest update
39:26
to overcast anytime you click on
39:26
a podcast. It will tell you the
39:31
name of the show, roughly how
39:31
frequently they publish a new
39:34
episode. And then right
39:34
underneath that is a link that
39:37
says privacy and tracking. If
39:37
you click privacy and tracking,
39:41
there is a screen that shows the
39:41
service that is hosting that
39:45
podcast and any ancillary
39:45
services they're using to get
39:49
more information about listeners
39:49
are served ads in the episode.
39:53
So I'm going to take one that we
39:53
have no connection with. This is
39:57
I've just clicked on the Kim
39:57
commando show. Kim command A
40:00
huge radio personality is now
40:00
doing a podcast as well. So when
40:03
I click on the Kim commando
40:03
show, privacy and tracking, I
40:06
see that she's using chargable.
40:06
for tracking and stats, and
40:10
megaphone for dynamic ad
40:10
insertion, tracking and hosting,
40:14
you can click through on any of
40:14
those links, and see the full
40:17
privacy policies of the company
40:17
behind them. But Marco is taking
40:20
a step further. And he's put the
40:20
warning emoji next to anybody
40:23
who's doing dynamic ad insertion
40:23
and tracking. So dynamic ad
40:28
insertion, he says may insert
40:28
custom ads for each download,
40:31
which may include local ads for
40:31
your region or other personally
40:33
targeted ads. And for tracking
40:33
his warning says, may follow
40:37
individual limit listeners
40:37
behavior across multiple shows
40:40
on the web, often to track a
40:40
response to an ad. So that's
40:43
what we would call like
40:43
attribution. So if you listen to
40:46
an episode, then you land on a
40:46
website, they want to be able to
40:48
put those two data points
40:48
together to figure out that
40:49
their ad worked. It's
40:49
technically possible. It's
40:52
pretty cool. The unintended
40:52
consequence is there, all these
40:56
data points getting used, you
40:56
know, a profile is getting built
40:59
around you an avatar, again, I'm
40:59
going back to the social dilemma
41:02
analogies that they use in that
41:02
docu drama. But that avatar
41:06
starts to become more and more
41:06
clear. And the clearer it
41:08
becomes, the higher their
41:08
ability is to manipulate and
41:11
impact purchasing decisions or
41:11
political decisions or behavior
41:16
in jayveer. In general, right.
41:16
And so this stuff is coming to
41:21
podcasting. I think the what I
41:21
love about what overcast is
41:24
doing is they're starting to,
41:24
you know, Shine a light into
41:27
some of this stuff and say, Hey,
41:27
there are companies there are
41:30
charter bowls. megaphones,
41:30
aren't 19 gets a warning. I
41:34
don't know there's a few other
41:34
companies that get warnings.
41:37
Buzzsprout does not get a
41:37
warning. What we do is we do
41:40
hosting and stats, we don't
41:40
collect personally identifiable
41:43
information, we do get the IP
41:43
address of listeners, when they
41:47
download an episode, we use that
41:47
to give a rough geolocation
41:50
lookup, which if you've seen the
41:50
map, in the Buzzsprout stats is
41:53
not high fidelity at all, the
41:53
deepest that we go is to give
41:56
you a city, which we get a lot
41:56
of people write in, and they're
41:59
like, I know somebody listened
41:59
in Denver, but I'm not seeing a
42:01
Denver thing. And we're like,
42:01
Yeah, but it says Colorado
42:03
Springs, I mean, like, we don't
42:03
buy IP address, we don't
42:06
necessarily always know the
42:06
exact city that somebody
42:09
downloaded. But we're not going
42:09
to go any further than that.
42:11
There's no reason for us to go
42:11
any further than that. And
42:13
there's unintended bad
42:13
consequences when companies
42:16
start going further than that.
42:16
And there are people who are
42:19
doing it in the podcasting
42:19
space. So I love that mark, is
42:22
shining a light on this, what do
42:22
you guys think?
42:24  Alban
Yeah, I think it's great.
42:24
I mean, I feel like the party
42:26
has been moving this way,
42:26
talking more and more about
42:29
should listeners have there be
42:29
like a privacy policy for
42:32
listeners. And I don't remember
42:32
if we were the first ones to do
42:34
that or not, but Buzzsprout
42:34
tells you like, we basically
42:37
collect no data on your
42:37
listeners. And now that's pretty
42:41
common for podcast hosts. I know
42:41
captivate has a feature where
42:45
they actually will expose kind
42:45
of the same thing that Marco is
42:48
doing here, show you the privacy
42:48
policies for prefix URLs. And I
42:53
think all that's good, because
42:53
everyone's trying to reiterate,
42:56
if you are going to go down this
42:56
path, at least let's put it out
42:59
in front of everybody and say,
42:59
we are going down this path,
43:02
we're going down the path of
43:02
tracking everything, and the
43:06
path of all this attribution.
43:06
Because I think when it's kind
43:09
of in your face, then you go
43:09
Wait, I really don't want to be
43:12
doing this, if it was in the
43:12
background, which is that's why
43:15
we accepted it with, you know,
43:15
when we moved to Facebook, from
43:18
MySpace, like we accepted it,
43:18
because it was in the
43:20
background. Well, now it's here
43:20
in front of us, and we know
43:23
where it leads. And hopefully,
43:23
the podcasting industry will
43:28
kind of see this and go, yeah,
43:28
we can have that over there on
43:33
all that social media junk. But
43:33
let's keep this one little area
43:36
of the internet. Let's keep it
43:36
protected from a lot of these
43:40
negative influences that we've
43:40
seen in so many other places.
43:43  Tom
Let me say that too. So I
43:43
watched the social dilemma. And
43:46
I'm like, I'm done. I'm done. I
43:46
was already pretty much like
43:49
going out the door of Facebook.
43:49
But I'm like, I'm done. I'm no
43:52
longer posting any my kids
43:52
pictures or anything like that.
43:56
But I continue to use Facebook
43:56
because we have this incredible
43:59
Facebook group of Buzzsprout
43:59
podcasters. And so what I found
44:04
is when I go into Facebook, now
44:04
all I'm doing is interacting
44:07
with our Buzzsprout podcasters.
44:07
And they are so good like it is
44:13
it's not the polarization that
44:13
you see in the social dilemma.
44:16
Like people are nice, they're
44:16
encouraging. People are being
44:19
transparent. They're sharing,
44:19
you know, this is where I am in
44:22
my podcasting journey. Can
44:22
somebody help me and then other
44:24
people are jumping in and
44:24
helping them. And man, I just
44:27
want to give a shout out to, you
44:27
know, a community that I feel
44:30
like is way beyond what we could
44:30
have ever done on our own. like
44:35
they've they've just done an
44:35
incredible job. And I know Albin
44:38
Travis, you guys have helped to,
44:38
to grow that community. And I
44:42
just, I'm just blown away by by
44:42
how encouraging that group is.
44:46  Travis
Yeah. And we have some
44:46
incredible moderators in the in
44:48
there too. That really helps us.
44:48
Make sure that we maintain the
44:51
specialness of you know, just
44:51
make sure it's a community of
44:54
people that are helping each
44:54
other. So Big shout outs to Brad
44:57
and Jonathan do a great job in
44:57
that community. We'll leave
45:00
links to both of their podcasts
45:00
in the show notes for this
45:02
episode if you want to go
45:02
support them, and give them a
45:05
huge thank you by bumping up
45:05
their IAB certified stats and
45:10
and if you are on Facebook and
45:10
you want to be a part of a
45:14
community like that, then
45:14
definitely encourage you to go
45:16
and check out the Facebook
45:16
group, the Buzzsprout podcast
45:19
community. That is it for this
45:19
episode and we will catch you in
45:22
the next one.