Sounds Profitable - Podcast Adtech & Advertising

The pace of change the podcast adtech industry is undergoing is staggering. The implications for podcasters, hosting providers, podcast listening app developers, and even advertisers and agencies are enormous. And so are the profits. Presented as a companion but stand-alone version of the weekly newsletter of the same name, each episode of Sounds Profitable will be a fluff-free experience for you. Along with industry experts, I'll help you understand how you can take advantage of podcast adtech to stay ahead of the curve and, well... make more money as more money from advertising pours into podcasting. That Sounds Profitable, right? Assumptions and conventional wisdom will be challenged. Easy answers with no proof of efficacy will be exposed. Because the thinking that got podcast advertising close to a billion dollars annually will need to be drastically overhauled to bring in the tens or hundreds of billions of dollars podcast advertising deserves. So join me, Bryan Barletta, as I bring to you Sounds Profitable, the podcast companion series. It's part of the PodNews network, and if you're not already reading my newsletter, then you should be.


episode 19: How To Buy Host-Read Ads At Scale

Growing your audience through host-read ads works. But it takes time and effort. Time and effort that Jordan Harbinger has put in.Key Links:

  • Jordan Harbinger
  • Article:
-----Do you think the system is flawed? What are you doing to grow your audience?
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SPEP19Bryan: Post shred ads, sit Lords and air checks. That's what we're talking about today on sounds profitable for me, Brian Barletta.This episode is sponsored by Claritas. Check out their recent, the marketing insider podcast, and learn how to use current trends such as industry specific lifts, success and CPM comparisons in podcasting to increase advertiser adoption, go to for more info.I know that you're listening to sounds profitable because podcast ad tech is important to you. But it's important to me that you are kept up to date on the latest news from the entire podcast industry to help with that. Here's what happened last week. No matter when you're listening from James Cridlin at pod news.Brands looking to advertise their podcasts are often told that host read ads. Aren't easy to scale, but sometimes the less easy paths provide the best results every month. Our guest Jordan harbinger of the Jordan harbinger show puts in considerable effort backed by tens of thousands of dollars to advertise his podcast.On other podcasts. I wrote about this in my article, how to buy host, read ads at scale, which I'll link to in the description. Jordan has found amazing success with this strategy. And he was kind enough to share his knowledge on the subject with us, for the people who aren't familiar with you did you, you get into managing your ads, like the content creation.You got a great idea. You you've made your show, but like, What made you decide to not just have somebody else handle your ads?Jordan: Well, first I did want to have somebody else handle my ads and I called friends of mine at agencies. Well, actually that wasn't even my first stop. I first started talking to people that worked in marketing at networks, and I said, Hey, do you ever freelance, you know, a little side hustle, a little kind of moonlighting.Is there anything that I can do to hire you? And. I got a lot of yeses. And then like five months later, they were still like, oh, I'm just really busy right now. And I thought, you know, I don't like waiting for people. How specialized is this knowledge? So I hired some freelancers at another network to just give me proposals.Right. I said, just, if you had to plan this. And you weren't executing it cause you don't have time. What would the proposal look like? And they were like, well, I would advertise. Here's how you buy some ads on Twitter and here's how you buy some ads on Instagram. And then we'd have you buying Facebook ads.And I paid a guy who was a Facebook ads specialist just to test this. And I get, I got conversions for like six or seven bucks. But they're not even subscribers. All we know is they went to the page that I had the play around for the Dennis Rodman episode. And I went, you know, these are not people that we even know, listen to podcasts.Like we think they do, but they clicked over from Facebook. And so there's just so much loss. And then I said, you know, I'm not convinced that a lot of these people really know what they're doing. I don't think there are clueless or scammers. I just think when you are 27 and you work at a big company or a medium company, and they're like, you have a hundred thousand dollar marketing budget, are you thinking, how do I get the best bang for the buck?Or are you going, let me do something. That's not going to get me fired, not going to get me in trouble. Sounds good on the face of it. So I think that's what a lot of marketers do when they're. Sort of charged with marketing a podcast. They go, well, we've never done this before. And these are the people that had marketed podcasts before most places did.And I'll get to that in a second. But, uh, you know, the you're charged with marketing a podcast. You just go, you know, a lot of people listen to podcasts, target them on social. Cause you can select listens to podcasts. Or you can say like lugs Joe Rogan or something like that, but it's just, there's so much loss.So I decided how hard can this be? And then I called agencies thinking I'm just going to buy podcast ads and be done with it. Let me figure this out. So I call agencies and agencies go, yeah, you need a budget of, you know, six figures, multiple six figures, seven figures, before you can even sign with us. We take 15% of the spend and I was like, wow.So I'm paying you like $50,000 for my experiment here to manage it. And then, I don't know if you messed up or if this just isn't gonna work. There's all these black boxes. I can't really get updates every day. I can get updates like every two weeks or something of the agency's going to send it to me or every week.From some assistant. And they also wanted me to know that they'd never advertised a podcast before they've advertised blue apron and they advertise, uh, this kind of mince and these kinds of clothes, but they never advertised a podcast. So I go, okay, so I'm paying you a lot of money. To buy ads, but you also kind of don't really know what you'reBryan: doing.That's the model. Right? All these big companies come to be. And that's, it's so interesting to me that they told you that they've never done it before. Like that's I askedJordan: and I said, how many podcasts do we advertise? What kind of growth can I expect? And they're like, well, truthfully, we've never actually worked.We never grown a show. You know, we've we buy for direct response advertisers and I went, okay, fair enough. And then I thought to myself, This is probably not that hard. I'm just going to buy ads from my own network podcast one and get like a really good sweetheart deal. Bother him all the time about the results and this and that.The other thing I got a chartable kind of premium subscription or whatever you want to call it and started running, tracking with smart promos. And then when I started getting things, working on podcast one, I started buying from friends of mine and I was like, can we try this? Can we try that people that would answer my calls just in case there was a mistake.And then I started to scale it up. And now I realize, okay, agencies didn't really know how to do this. Networks really don't know how to do this. They just hire a few 20 somethings and they're like, you're in marketing now. You know, some of them do well, but really the, the networks that are doing well, they grow, they grow by advertising on other shows on the network.They don't really buy ads. Well, I'm on a network where I can run it ads on other shows, but then I'm limited to those shows. So that's why you see that's a theory. Y you see, let's say true crime networks that have like 20 true crime shows and they launched five a quarter because true crime people listen to true crime and it's a cash cow.So they can just launch true crime, true crime, true crime, true crime, and they can advertise it, like get, get 200, some thousand dollars worth of advertising essentially for free from their sister shows on that network. And then make that show successful. I didn't have that luxury, but also I realized it's kind of one of those.Those things where since no one is doing this, there's no path. There's no road more traveled, I guess. Yeah, but also there's no competition. So when I'm advertising on other shows, I go, look, I can't afford to pay you what blue apron pays because I'm doing a podcast, a podcast ad read some agencies and networks they'll say, or some networks I should say, will say, no, we don't advertise what their shows find, write them off next, but other other times they'll say, well, we understand.You're not making any money right off the back of it. So we'll give you some unsold inventory at a much discounted CPM. So that's what I'm buying now. Right? So I'm getting a pretty good deal. Uh, and over time, as long as my show, doesn't suck and listeners stick around for a couple of years or so. I will make a lot more money than what I spent, but it is a gamble.Like you don't really know, like how are people going to stick around? Are they going to share it so far? That's been the case, but I've only been running this experiment for about a year, aBryan: year. And that's the thing because you're buying a listen and you're hoping your content is good enough. To convert for a subscription that they subscribed to it and keep listening to it.So that then a month or two later, your numbers are updated or even a quarter or two later, your numbers are updated so that when you pitch to future advertisers, you can charge a higher price or have more inventory for them. And so that's like when you're buying this inventory, it's so many steps removed.There's so many points of failure. Yeah, cool. That they're comfortable with that. And that they'll give you, you know, a discount on those rates because like blue apron, every conversion makes the money. If you get into their free trial and you, they don't convert you well, that's a bigger problem. These people aren't like giving you, like driving to give you an email address or anything like that.You don't have any way to contact them. You just know this person listened to this podcast in my ad. And then came over and listened to one of my episodes. And even right now, w we've we were just shooting the shit about this earlier that there was, there's still not enough information to show, like, did they stick around?Did they subscribe? I, the data is there, but you're, you're so right about that 27 year old thing. And sometimes I think it's even younger, like. I tried to explain to people why people don't dig in more to this. And it's because these people that are so junior they're three to four steps up from them.Someone decided that this is the strategy that's going to go on. They gave them a budget that they're responsible for. They'll absolutely get fired. If they aren't successful. It's not even about getting like a bonus. It's about maintaining your job and you're that person 3, 4, 5 levels above them. Isn't going to open a document.Isn't going to read your pitch. They want you to put that screenshot. Into the email that says up into the right success, right. They just want to see that arrow going up and showing improvement and that's it. And so to convince that 27 year old, like, Hey, let's take a gamble on podcasting when best case scenario, their boss's boss's boss takes credit for it.And then they tell them, don't do that again. And worst case scenario, they get fired. Like. It's, it's hard to convince those big structures to do things like that.Jordan: Plus they can always point to best practices and say, what do you mean advertising on Facebook? Everyone does that. Everyone's got Instagram ads.We targeted people that liked, uh, Dr. Death with this ad. So of course, they're going to find out we have an issue and look that probably works to some extent, but if you want to reach look a hundred percent of people listening to podcasts. Know how to listen to podcasts. That sounds really dumb and obvious, but what people, if it's that obvious, then why are you advertising on Facebook?Where somebody scroll or Instagram, where somebody scrolling, looking for cat photos, or like looking to find some D girls dancing or whatever's on there now, which is a lot of that. And then it's like here, listen to Malcolm Gladwell, talk for an hour about his new book. It's like, Hmm, no, but if you're listening to a podcast with Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway, and then I say, Hey, or better yet, they say, listen to me on the Jordan harbinger show.It was a really good interview. That's a better ad and everyone knows how to find my show from there. And everyone likes that particular guest and everyone trusts that particular host with a few exceptions. Uh, I guess people hate listen to certain shows, but I don't advertise on those generally. So this strategy works, uh, and you can see it because yes, it's up into the right, but I would absolutely have fired somebody if I were some sort of like executive and this kid says, so we spend a bunch of money and we kind of hope it comes back around.They can look at these Facebook analytics and go. 97.1% of these people clicked through and they clicked on the website and they're from Albuquerque and Michigan and USA only, you know, they have all those analytics that are pretty, that we don't have in podcasting. And so they don't get in trouble for doing it, but I don't want to not get in trouble.Right. I'm, I'm spending a lot of my own money. So I want real results and I'm willing to take risks, which is probably why I own my own business. And I don't have investors, you know, I'm the investor. So I don't have to answer to anyone. Yeah. YouBryan: get to, you get to be the person, take all the risk and put all the effort into it.It's, that's so funny, like the, all those statistics and they can prove and all of that, you know, I wonder if that's actually valuable and we're chasing that, or if that's a justification of these bloated systems that we have, I think there's some amazing agencies out there. I think there are some amazing networks and things like that, but the general structure of these holding groups and stuff like that, that take 15% of 15% of 15% all the way down, right.To the point where the publisher or whoever's getting the inventory is getting a $10 CPM, but they're charging the advertiser a hundred dollars sometimes. Um, There's a lot of justification done with these overzealous data points to, uh, value all the hands that are in the pot. And like you, like, you've taken risks that are on par with what the management fee would have been.For this, someone to do this, like you can do a lot more hands on. I think the tool is there. I would love more metrics on there, but I think the tools that we have there and you've absolutely, hands-on proven it. They're good enough for directional and that's what we need. Right. You're not going to get exact, you're not going to know one-to-one but those stats will tell you if a show fails or succeeds.And if you want to want to continue advertising with them or find something similar or how to pivot out from there.Jordan: Yeah. Yeah, you're right. And look, I can look at my tea leaves, AKA my show data. And I can say here's what I was an advertising and it was going up 200 downloads per episode, per month, maybe.Right. And some months were up and some months were down. And that was nice, or it was like 500 or maybe even a thousand. Wow. A thousand more people are listening to each episode as of this month. And then when I started advertising, it was like 11,000 more people are downloading each episode of the show.4,000 people are downloading each episode of this show, 7,000, 12,000, sometimes 2000. So it's. And it's every single month. So that shows me that you can really throw gasoline on this fire. Now, of course, ads are really expensive. So like you said before, then when I'd get my new projections at the end of the month, then when they craft a new proposal at the, you know, the, after that they use those numbers and then they come back in a month and say yes to the proposal, and then they run the ads.So I'm like three to six, whatever months. Maybe at the highest six months behind. So my rate is trailing. Does that make sense? Like I don't get 2000 downloads, more per episode and then podcasts one sales team goes great. Well, we're going to charge this much more now, starting tomorrow. All right. This company is buying ads.It's like proposals went out for the ads I'm getting now. And proposals went out in December. Probably. Yeah. And this is late February and that's maybe the proposal went out in October. I don't know. So the sales cycle is long enough and that's what I'm waiting for. So my strategy here is to, to run the growth strategy for a few years, pretty much non-stop until I either see decreasing ROI or I'm like, you know what, um, they're unable to increase my rate because it's no longer doing well for Dr.And th this is a phenomenon you probably know more about, but. I found this out because I started buying huge shows and it's like, oh my gosh, this show has 450,000 downloads per episode. What can I afford this? And the sales guy will go look, all right, I'm going to give it to you for like 15 bucks CPM.And I go, okay, wait a minute. Why, why are you giving me a weekly show for 15 bucks CPM that you said does well, what's the, what's the rub? And they go, well, I mean, it's 450,000. But it's no longer when it was 50,000, it was all tech guys working in information security. And that's the only people who listened to this.So it killed for Dr. And it killed for people targeting computer experts and it killed for people that were targeting males ages 25 to 40. Now it's 450,000 people. We got. Soccer moms in Ohio, we have all the, so the targeting, it gets diluted to the point where it no longer actually converts as highly.And I'm like, okay, I want to stop paying for listeners at that point because my CPMs just going to go down. Where does, like, my money spent is going up. That's a bad place for me to be, because then it takes me longer to earn the money back that I've invested. So as long as my CPM is like 20 bucks or to 30 bucks, I'm good.But as soon as it starts popping down to like 15, I'm done growing, at least done spending on growth.Bryan: And so do you get to be hands-on in how the campaigns are running on your show? Right? Like, so podcasts, one brings in a sales, like an ad campaign that they've sold. Are you able to see the performance of it to make sure that it's converting with your expectations so that you can tweak your ad buying to grow your own show in the right direction?Jordan: I get dude's. Does he, did he advertisers that are on the Jordan harbinger show? Tell me if they're doing well or not. Yeah, no, they, so this is something that I thought more people would do, but it makes sense why they don't and I'll tell you why. So if I am. Blue apron and I buy blue I might as well.Right? So if I'm blue apron, if I'm blue apron and I buying ads in the Jordan harbinger show, and every time I run an ad and it's through, let's say it's 30 to 50 for the, let's say it's $3,000 for the ad for the sake of math here. If I sell $4,000 with the meals, Do I go, Jordan, you are killing it. You are selling $4,000 for every $3,000 we spend with you.We love you. What am I going to do? Oh, really? That's funny. You should say that because now ads are $3,900. Thanks for letting me know. So. They never say anything. All they do is go, Hey, so, um, we want a lot more ads. What do you say to eight more spots? And I go, great. Yeah, show me the money. Um, but I know what they mean is we're making at least $3,100 for every $3,000 that we give you, but I don't turn around and go well, in that case, the price is higher because I want the bulk buy, but I don't know by how much, but when you have a sponsor and I have plenty of these that stay with me for like two years, I go.Man, we lit so much, we wasted so much money, not knowing how well this ad was doing, because if you stayed with us for two, three years, we must be just spinning money out at you. Every single time in the ad runs, it must be just murdering it.Bryan: Yeah. Because they, they, they just benefit from all this growth that you're doing.They lock you in now. I mean, That's the smartest thing. If you see results in a podcast and you're probably doing the same exact thing when you're buying inventory and other podcasts, if you find a podcast, that's just killing it with the getting you listeners and their growth is steady and you could lock it in for a year or two at the rates that they're doing there.You're probably going to evaluate it.Jordan: Yeah. Yeah, I do. And, um, I have, as long as I got a 30 day out, so like, cause I've, I've bought shows and I'm like, Hey, you're delivering 50% of the impressions that you were before. And they're like, yeah. Before the election, we were at 62,000 downloads per episode, and now we're at 45,000 because nobody's listening to.Election podcast or whatever. Right. It's just not popular. So there's a lot of that. Um, you know, what else is funny is, uh, using a tool like charitable, which tells me the number of impressions. I got to give them a plug cause they've been killing it for me. Um, with it's like a, almost like beta, but really doing it.It's like a magical system that shows me how many things are converting. I have heard and I won't name names, but I've heard from many ad networks and shows that I buy I'll say something like, Hey, so on chartable it says 42,000 and I bought 65,000. Can you give me a screenshot and they'll go. Okay. So it looks like we're a little under, we're going to give you some make goods.So we're going to make up the impressions and then it'll happen again. And I'll renew and I'll say, Hey, you know, your conversion is good and they'll revise the number downward. And they go guess the new numbers, 45,000 downloads. We thought we had 62, we have 45. Now, you know, we're going to change the rate.And I said, how often do you change the rate? And they go. I think this is the only time I've done it. And I go, how long have you been there? And they're like four years. And I go, so you really are changing the rate because I found that you are under delivering. But you don't see that if you're blue apron, because you just go, Hey, this converted well enough at renewal.I don't care. A forty-five thousand people heard it, or a 65,000 people heard it, but you kind of do because even if 65,000 people hear it and only it looks and it performs well, but it performs at the same rate as the show with 45,000 people. Well, 20,000 extra people. I became aware of your brand. They heard about you, you paid for that.So that's sort of the problem with direct response is like, you don't really know about delivery. So it's, it does pay to check because no, one's really revising their numbers downward. I will say like, Rooster teeth podcast one, they do do that. And I'm sure there are other networks that do advertise cast has done it before, but there are other networks and I don't want to save if I omitted it, that they're doing this, but there are other networks where I go, Hey, um, you're like 30% under and they're like, okay.Ah, yeah. Well for you some bonus impressions and I go, you knew that this was going to happen. You didn't even like the guys texts back in 13 seconds. He doesn't go. Let me check on that. That's highly unusual. He just goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll give you two free ones and like, wait a minute. That was too easy.You've known this as a problem before I signed on the dottedBryan: line, but that's the thing. And I think me and you are digging into these same things and it's so interesting to see it on different sides, right? Like your sales. More sales and content focus with a technical side to it. I'm more technical vertice with a light content side to it.We're exploring and examining the same thing that there are these holes that are just not worth these companies plugging, right. It is not in their benefits to update their documentation or better their numbers on that because it hurts them on their overall bragging rights. It feels like sometimes right.You can't like, if you have to revise your numbers downwards, everybody's gonna dog pile on you. Right. You might end up in pod news. It's like, ah, 20% loss in downloads, but it's, but that's not the case. Right? It's still successful. It's still working. It's still all these things, but there's this gap and there's this gap that me and you are diving into in this space where it's just like, if every company gave one employee.50% of their time to just look at this shit, to like really hands-on look at it and play with it. They would be masters of it. And because they aren't me and you are just like running around like two unsupervised kids. Sometimes we benefit greatly from it. But I think we're both of the mindset that we're like, we know more people need to know about this, so that everything's better.Cause if, if everybody did what you were doing, The end result isn't that you can't keep doing this you to a little bit more on ads, but more advertisers are coming in immediately. If blue apron sat with you and was just like, learned from you for this stuff, then they're that third a hundred dollars they make off of the $3,000.Right. They could make it even more. Right. They can expand that margin. And it's just, it's all about finding success is easy, right? And podcasting, there are enough tools there to know, is it a hit or is it a failure increasing the margin in success? That's, that's what this year and next year, and the, you know, this upcoming space has to be about because we're not going to get to a hundred percent fill anytime soon.And we shouldn't because there should be more and more listeners. But we need to figure out how to provide more value. We need to make it efficient. That's why you can't buy from trade desk into a podcast ad and hope for success. That's why you have to meet us what this technology and content is.Hands-on yeah,Jordan: I agree. I think this is a look I'm biased because I'm a podcaster, but yeah. I have tried ads for many things in many places. And I have a lot of friends that run companies and they're like, yeah, we do social media ads, but they're returning customers. They get way more from podcasts and they, their brand equity, like a company will say, oh man, you know, we, we can't put enough money into podcasts to keep our iPhone case business running.Right. They have to sell like tens of thousands of these things probably per week or at least per month to make it a real multimillion dollar peripherals business. So there's not enough V they can't, they have trouble putting the money into podcasting, but then, so they'll test it with us. And they'll say like, eh, kind of worked kind of didn't, you know, it's good.It's all other things being equal as good as social media, but I can put $2 million a month into social media. I can not put $2 million a month into podcasting and get this similar return. So it doesn't scale well, but then I'll see them six months later and they'll go, you know, it's funny. Everyone says, Hey, is that a such and such case?I feel like I heard about that on a podcast and you're the only podcast that we bought. And I'm like, so all these people who saw it on Facebook, They remember hearing about it on the podcast, whether they saw it on Facebook or not as another question, but that's the, that's the impression that that lasted.They don't go, Hey, I think I saw that in a random sidebar when I was looking at my ex-girlfriend from college. Right. They go, I heard Jordan talking about that on a podcast because it has bees on it or whatever. And so the advertising, like the, the impression on the podcast versus the impression on a Facebook ad or an Instagram ad, like these are not created equal and people will argue about this with me.All the time, but I think we only have to look at the CPM, especially YouTubers. They're like, oh man, you know, th this podcasting is so hard. I get X thousand views on my YouTube. I get all these analytics and I go, what CPM do you get for your ad on YouTube? $3. They're like, yeah, I wish you know, or something like that for $10.Yeah. It's like three bucks. Um, a buddy of mine is a really famous YouTuber, uh, travel YouTuber. And I think he's told me he makes between 20 and $80,000 a month on YouTube. Imagine how many impressions that is. And I go, okay, so what do you get for like a million views? And I thought he was going to tell me 20 grand or something like that.Yeah. $2,500 if they're mostly U S and Canada viewers. And if they're not, it goes lower for a million views. So you have to constantly, and now it's like no wonder people be jumping off tables on a food and like prank, you know, like that's the stuff that can be used because you have to get millions of views just to, to pay your rent as a YouTuber every month on all your videos.So these guys work like dogs, um, and, and we're bad is. WithBryan: podcasting. The reality is, is if you have a niche market and you are focused on it appropriately, and they are going to buy something, you could have an audience of a hundred people, dedicated people, and you could have an advertiser who sells products for companies that it's a hundred thousand dollars commitment.And so if they've dropped four grand on you a month, that's nothing. If one converts. And so that's, that's why like people, like not only is it, the CPM is way higher, like you're saying, but like, Think outside the box, like the more interesting in nature content is like, the more you can just be like, Hey, this is what we are, and this is who we do.And this is our audience and this is why we're different and unique. And I'm not here about the numbers. We'll share them with you, but like, we're not going to play that game. It's a sponsorship. And, and you can't do that in YouTube because they're going to be like, nah, I can, I, if you don't want to sell it, monetize the viewerJordan: a hundred percent.Yeah. I was going to say, look there. Before people go, wait a minute. You tubers can do, there are YouTube offers that will like say, Hey, Nord, VPN or something in their video, but you can only put one in. And that's like a 20 plus minute long YouTube video. I routinely put four or five ads in a podcast. I make them funny and no, I mean, no one complains.Yeah. Sometimes people say. I've heard this ad for Netsweet so many times, and I go, Hey man, they bought a lot of ad. They're putting my kid through college, basically. That's what it is. But you know, you never really hear about that with, with YouTube, unless they're those automatic Google ads or whatever.And then of course people can buy premium and then there's no ads. And so you're, you know, like there's a whole thing there podcasting really is special for that reason. And I love that it's sort of resist as a platform it's or as a, not a platform as a medium, it's resisted the whole. The thing that's ruined everything else.Right? Giving away user data, making it creepy, being too invasive. Stopping in the middle of a damn sentence, it's a to play a musical ad for a Honda, a Hyundai, or like a, I don't know anything. Right. And you can do or get like, you could bust out an ad right now and we can riff on it and it would be a million times better and convert it three X the rate of a YouTube ad.And it would be part of the show. And no one would complain. If you put three ads in a YouTube video. There are 8,000 comments that are like F U there's too many ads. I hate Jordan. You're ugly. And your head is fat. I mean, literally I will get that. You know, and they're not wrong about my head by the way, but that's sensitive subject.Bryan: Uh, yeah, but you're so right on it, the openness of people are like, ah, but there's no easy way to monetize, but, but it's, it's that you're all your own business, right? Every single podcast is their own business and you can take advantage of that. And that's to a benefit and a detriment. You don't want to do it yourself.LA uh, be part of a bigger platform, right? Dive into something, sell your content. Work with Spotify, work with megaphone work with anchor, these partners, um, red circle, these people that will represent your inventory fully for you. And you don't have to think about it, but expect the lower CPM tube because there's more hands in it.But if you're an entrepreneur, if you want to do this yourself, if you want to really make it a business like. You got to invest in as much money as you comfortably can to grow it. And you gotta realize that you're not entitled to it. So like you're not guaranteed a paycheck, you and your buddies talking about horror movies, probably not going to be enough to pay for your car.So, you know, it's, I'm so happy that you're here. I think that I'm probably gonna ask you to come back at a later time with a Jack Rice header. I think we've talked about a little something on Twitter that would be fun to dig into. Um, but thank you so much for being here. The thing I like to end with, um, what is your most favorite podcast right now?What are you what's consuming your time? You know,Jordan: it's funny, you should ask because I just subscribed. I never subscribed to new shows cause you know, you have too many, I don't even want to hear about new good shows. Cause I'm like, don't tell me. I'm going to end up subscribing. It's going to be a huge waste of time.I accidentally subscribed to that one. I'm gonna delete that. I dropped my phone in the shower. My phone stopped playing the podcast. I was listening to subscribed somehow to another one and started playing it. And I'm like, that is a hell of a shake function. Um, I, which is what I assume happened. I don't understand how it's going to happen.Uh, I am listening to pivot. With Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway, because they're both so smart. And so their chemistry on air is really, really fun. Um, another show, since you only asked me for one, I'm gonna give you two, um, another show that I like recently, that's not something that literally everyone else listens to.Is, oh, I was going to say the prof G show with Scott Galloway, but that's kind of a weird thing to do when I already have a Scott Galloway podcast. And then there's, um, there's behind the bastards. They're a little bit left leaning for me. I'm not leaning to the right, but these guys are like straight up, you know, there's a little, there's like extreme left.Um, but he goes over the worst people in history, like obvious ones are Hitler and things like that, but he'll go over a lot of. Terrible people from Saddam Hussein to Jeffrey Epstein. And he does like a deep dive that's multiple hours long on each of these people. And he's quite funny. So that's fun, man.Yeah. It's fun. It's so popular that show. I looked it up cause I thought, I can't believe more people don't know about this. And I went to buy ads on there and I was like, a lot of people know about this, like hundreds of thousands. I'm just late to the party.Bryan: That's awesome. I'll have to check those out.Well, thank you again for joining me and we'll talk to you more soon.Jordan: Thank you very muchandBryan: stick around for some special bonus content. At the end of the episode, I've teamed up with Evo Terra to give you a minute long strategic thought that is guaranteed to shift your perspective on the present and future of podcasting. As we all work to make podcastingJordan: better. ThanksBryan: to Jordan harbinger for coming on to help expand on my article, how to buy host, read ads at scale.If you liked what you heard and want to connect, you can find me Brian Barletta on LinkedIn, way less formally on Twitter as a high five RPG. And of course you can email me, Brian, at sounds The most important part about sounds profitable is providing you with more resources and making sure that I can answer your questions.So check out the link to YAPA in the episode description and leave me a message. And with your permission, I'll answer it live on the show, the sound's profitable podcast and all cool ad tech belts and whistles you've experienced for thanks to our host and sponsor wish got everything you've heard since the conversation ended was uniquely created to target you.Using their dynamic ad insertion features. If any of the call-outs were wrong, let us know, depending on how you're listening. There were over 10 opportunities to hear dynamically inserted content and ads. In this episode, while we continue to tweak and innovate our setup, some of the breaks may be more noticeable than others.Thank you for bearing with us and please send over your feedback. The sounds profitable podcasts, but not be possible without the help and support. Of Evo, Tara, James Cridlin, Ian Powell and Sam Mars. Thank you all for your help.


 2021-06-13  33m