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Creating Change Through Podcasting with Espree Devora [transcript]


Espree Devora shares her journey as a perpetual early adopter, being the face of the Clubhouse app, founding the Los Angeles tech community, and how podcasting brings people together.

Listen to Espree's podcast, "Women in Tech"

Review Buzzcast in Podchaser or Apple Podcasts to let us know what you think of the show.

Buzzsprout's Dynamic Content tool now allows you to save multiple clips in your Dynamic Content Library and track how many downloads each clip receives. Learn more on our New Features page.


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 2021-06-25  46m
 
 
00:00  Espree
Don't think about how
00:00
many listens that I get. Think
00:02
about how can I utilize this for
00:02
my existing community don't
00:08
think about it in such like a
00:08
selfish way of like, like why am
00:11
I not getting more? Why am I not
00:11
getting more like I need I need
00:15
I want I want instead think of
00:15
it like, how can I optimize this
00:20
to champion listeners?
00:28  Alban
Hey friends, welcome back
00:28
to the podcast. I am so excited
00:33
today. My guest is a spree.
00:33
devorah Asprey is a podcaster.
00:37
She's an entrepreneur, she's a
00:37
speaker, and she's the host of
00:40
multiple, highly successful
00:40
podcasts like the women in tech
00:44
podcast, the we are la tech
00:44
podcast. And if you just spend
00:48
enough time online, I feel like
00:48
you write it to a spree kind of
00:52
all over the place very active
00:52
on pretty much every social
00:55
media platform that I ever get
00:55
on to. And if she looks
01:00
familiar, it might be because
01:00
you recognize her as the former
01:04
face of clubhouse. She was the
01:04
icon for the clubhouse app,
01:08
because she was a super early
01:08
adopter and now runs many of the
01:12
largest podcasting clubhouse
01:12
room. So Asprey, thank you so
01:17
much for being on the podcast
01:17
with me today.
01:19  Espree
Thank you for having me
01:19
here. The one thing that you
01:21
left out was an a mega fan of
01:21
Buzzsprout. Like, I just think
01:28  Alban
he's also a mega fan of
01:28
Buzzsprout.
01:30  Espree
Right. I think that is
01:30
so what you're doing for the
01:34
community and how you're
01:34
elevating podcasters to be on
01:38
top of their game is so awesome.
01:38
And you know, I'm not just
01:40
saying that because I see that
01:40
just in about every clubhouse
01:42
room.
01:43  Alban
Yeah, we first met on
01:43
clubhouse. I think the headliner
01:46
team connected us. And I love
01:46
just having conversations with
01:51
you. Most of the club, I was
01:51
talking about podcasting, and
01:55
community. And that was why it
01:55
kind of made perfect sense. I
01:58
was like, man, we've got to get
01:58
you onto this Buzzsprout
02:01
conversation show and share your
02:01
message with everybody on
02:05
Buzzsprout. I'm excited. Thank
02:05
you for having me. So you've
02:08
been podcasting since 2014.
02:08
You've been in podcasting longer
02:11
than I have
02:12  Espree
i for i started
02:12
podcasting in 2013. And I
02:16
launched the we are early tech
02:16
podcast in 2014. I start
02:19
producing in 2013, because it
02:19
takes time to brand the show and
02:24
to schedule the guests and think
02:24
about the intent of the show. So
02:27
I just started producing it and
02:27
curating what the production
02:30
would be. And then I and then I
02:30
recorded and then I launched it.
02:35
So I got it edited and these
02:35
kinds of things in 2014. For we
02:39
are la tech and in 2015 I
02:39
launched the women in tech
02:43
podcast.
02:44  Alban
Awesome. That is for
02:44
anybody watching that is so
02:48
early in podcasting right now.
02:48
We just crossed it wasn't 2
02:52
million. I think it was cool. I
02:52
started working at podcasts at
02:58
the end of 2014. We had not hit
02:58
100,000 podcasts total then. And
03:04
now we are over 2 million in the
03:04
world. And it's crazy just to
03:07
see NEOs remarkable to see how
03:07
quickly the podcast industry has
03:13
grown and caught on. Can you
03:13
kind of tell us about that
03:17
journey and how that's been for
03:17
you?
03:19  Espree
Yeah, I mean, I also
03:19
have a point of views in the
03:22
trajectory of podcasts, like
03:22
when I started podcasting, if
03:26
this is okay, or do you want me
03:26
to stay focused on me because I
03:30
just don't know
03:31  Alban
interesting. Whatever you
03:31
would like to share is what we
03:34
want to talk about.
03:35  Espree
I think I just think
03:35
it's really interesting that I
03:38
thought podcasting would follow
03:38
the trajectory of YouTube. So
03:41
I'm like, okay, I remember in
03:41
2012, I was working this job, I
03:45
was trying, I was trying to
03:45
force myself not to be an
03:47
entrepreneur, it didn't bode
03:47
well for me. But it was a time
03:50
where I was like, just stop
03:50
giving your family panic
03:53
attacks. So, uh, so I said to my
03:53
boss at time, I was like, I
04:00
think you should have a podcast.
04:00
I think he worked with a lot of
04:04
the top youtubers in the world.
04:04
I'm like, I think you should
04:06
have your, your clients on on a
04:06
podcast, and they're like, No,
04:12
no, and I'm like, you know what,
04:12
I'm going to go off and I'm
04:14
going to go create a podcast,
04:14
you know. So I created when I
04:20
created my podcast, podcasting
04:20
wasn't a thing, but I had one of
04:23
the first YouTube channels. So I
04:23
just felt really confident that
04:26
I really think this industry is
04:26
going to go somewhere. It was
04:29
around that time the startup
04:29
podcast came out and and so then
04:34
all the tech startup eventually
04:34
became gimlet media, which was
04:39
eventually acquired by Spotify.
04:39
At this time, no one cared about
04:43
all these things, except all the
04:43
tech people because they were
04:46
documenting a tech company. Then
04:46
another podcast came out that
04:50
made it more mainstream. So now
04:50
you have all the tech
04:54
influencers talking about
04:54
podcasting, and the mainstream
04:56
media talking about podcasting.
04:56
And then so it's kind of have
05:00
like these things that happen.
05:00
Now we're in the phase. And
05:03
here's my point of why I'm
05:03
sharing all this is we're in the
05:06
phase of the podcast is the new
05:06
blog that I think anyone is just
05:10
taking a podcasting and they
05:10
don't really have a why they
05:12
just feel like Instagram that
05:12
they're missing out, though I
05:15
got to be on it because I can't
05:15
miss I can't miss out. And
05:18
what's happening as an indie
05:18
podcast creator is you're under
05:23
the illusion that oh my gosh,
05:23
now it's so saturated. Now I
05:25
don't have a chance. Because
05:25
there's, you know, crossing over
05:29
2 million episodes. But how many
05:29
are 2 million shows but how many
05:32
of those shows are graveyard
05:32
shows because people get
05:36
discouraged because there's also
05:36
something called pod fade. And
05:40
pod fade is like essentially,
05:40
after I think it's like seven
05:43
episodes or something people get
05:43
really discouraged that they
05:45
don't have the listeners that
05:45
they want, not knowing if you
05:49
even have 130 listens a month,
05:49
it's really successful. So I
05:53
just think it's interesting,
05:53
kind of the journey of the
05:56
podcasting industry overall. I
05:56
think it's interesting, the
06:01
whole Joe Rogan Spotify thing
06:01
and how that caters to the
06:06
industry, or all this, what
06:06
essentially just the choices
06:09
Spotify is making. I think it's
06:09
interesting all the technology
06:12
being built for podcasting. So I
06:12
won't go on and on about it. But
06:17
I think at the end of the day,
06:17
when you're thinking about
06:19
starting a podcast, and I
06:19
genuinely think Buzzsprout is an
06:23
amazing solution in launching a
06:23
show, especially when you're new
06:27
because Buzzsprout has all the
06:27
marketing vehicles and education
06:31
to be able to support you in
06:31
that training. It's so hard. But
06:34
when you're thinking about it,
06:34
don't think about launching a
06:38
podcast think think about it in
06:38
the sense of how is this going
06:43
to enhance, like, the world I've
06:43
architected like my my customer,
06:49
my customer base, my community,
06:49
like don't think about how many
06:52
listens that I get, think about
06:52
how can I utilize this for my
06:58
existing community for you know,
06:58
and then how can I maybe
07:02
repurpose an episode into
07:02
multiple things to empower
07:05
others? Like, don't think about
07:05
it in such like a selfish way of
07:09
like, like, why am I not getting
07:09
more? Why am I not getting more
07:13
like I need I need I want I want
07:13
instead think of it like, how
07:17
can I optimize this to champion
07:17
listeners and to champion my
07:22
existing community? And so yeah,
07:22
don't get it up. And let me just
07:28
get in podcasting because
07:28
everybody is get caught up in
07:31
how can I really serve others
07:31
get caught up in that? I did on
07:36
my rant? Yeah,
07:39  Alban
well, one of the themes
07:39
that I saw that keeps coming up
07:41
for you, his community. Yeah.
07:41
And I think maybe can we kind of
07:47
pull that thread through your
07:47
journey? Can you just give kind
07:50
of a brief history of like, what
07:50
you do now, but kind of where
07:53
you've come from, and your, your
07:53
journey as a podcaster, but also
07:57
as an entrepreneur? Yeah.
07:58  Espree
So this is actually
07:58
perfect. So in 2012, I created a
08:01
we are a tech video series,
08:01
spotlighting Los Angeles tech
08:05
companies and talent. And
08:05
unfortunately, my partner at the
08:09
time, didn't have the same work
08:09
ethic that I had. So we shot 12
08:13
episodes, and then none of them
08:13
were edited. And it broke my
08:18
heart. So when I discovered
08:18
podcasting, I'm like, I never
08:21
have to go through that, again,
08:21
I'm going to teach myself and
08:24
I'm just never going to rely on
08:24
an editor. I have editors now.
08:27
But you know, at that time, I
08:27
just, I never wanted to like,
08:31
count. I mean, when I'm talking
08:31
about video content, I'm not
08:35
talking about like something
08:35
quick with an iPhone, we had
08:38
three camera shoots, I built the
08:38
first action sports, social
08:43
network. So I had a lot of
08:43
experience with video
08:45
production. And I'm not talking
08:45
about something quick and
08:48
upload, I'm talking about like a
08:48
really well produced segment. My
08:51
point in saying that is you have
08:51
to be a very skilled video
08:54
editor to know how to do that. I
08:54
can't just like pick that up in
08:57
a few hours, you know. So it was
08:57
a much lower lift to learn audio
09:03
only to learn this story story,
09:03
meaning because it's just
09:07
easier. It's easier for editing,
09:07
it's easier to understand. I'm
09:10
not saying I'm not a sound
09:10
engineer, there's a lot that
09:14
could be done. That's way beyond
09:14
my competency. But anyone could
09:19
teach themself relatively easily
09:19
how to edit and how to produce a
09:24
podcast. It takes practice in
09:24
the beginning. One hour of
09:30
recording would take me 40
09:30
minutes to edit. So like, I
09:35
mean, sorry, 40 hours to edit.
09:35
Like one hour of recording with
09:38
40 hours. Yeah. And I talked to
09:38
Alex Bloomberg about this, the
09:43
host the startup podcast and
09:43
founder of gimlet media, and he
09:47
said it's really normal. He said
09:47
it took him a really long time
09:50
in the beginning to it's all
09:50
about practice, but I cared that
09:53
much, you know. So I started
09:53
podcasting and I created the
09:59
weirdly take videos is in order.
09:59
And at this time video was not a
10:03
podcast, like only audio was
10:03
like podcasting. So I, I wanted
10:11
to highlight the LA tech
10:11
community, I wanted to spotlight
10:14
like all all the amazing talent,
10:14
so I wanted to use my video
10:18
production skills from my action
10:18
sports days and utilize them to
10:23
help champion the community in
10:23
Los Angeles. So then, as I
10:26
shared, I pivoted to audio only
10:26
podcasting. Continue doing that
10:31
we're like tech podcast. Oh, and
10:31
it was really cool. Within a
10:34
month, we were like, top of
10:34
apple. So you know, however,
10:36
everyone's like, How many? How
10:36
many episodes? Should I bank?
10:40
When I first get started? I'm
10:40
like, I don't know, I had one
10:42
episode, and I uploaded it, you
10:42
know, like, just, like, just do
10:45
the thing like, stop, like,
10:45
there's no perfect way. So in
10:50
2015, there were a lot of women
10:50
in tech groups that were popping
10:55
up. I'm like, Oh, I'm, that's
10:55
me, like I, you know, built an
10:59
action sports company intended
10:59
to die. And so I go to these
11:04
women tech groups. And
11:04
unfortunately, all I heard was
11:07
everything that is against us,
11:07
like every, like all the and I
11:11
had no idea because I don't
11:11
know, I just kind of like lived
11:16
in this bubble of optimism,
11:16
where I'm like, I want to start
11:19
an action sports company, I
11:19
wanna start a social network, I
11:21
want to build the first social
11:21
network. And I just, like went
11:24
after I was just, I just went
11:24
after life, you know? So
11:29
discovering that like, like
11:29
women, like, here's one women
11:35
aren't able to raise money as
11:35
frequently as men, right? It's
11:39
statistics. Well, when in my
11:39
fundraising journey, I barely
11:44
knew what what investment was, I
11:44
just read a news article on
11:49
YouTube getting a getting
11:49
acquired by Google, and that
11:52
they were funded by these people
11:52
called Sequoia. So I just flew
11:55
to San Francisco without a
11:55
meeting or knowing anything to
11:58
meet with Sequoia, like, you
11:58
know, it's like, But imagine if
12:01
in my head, I was like, oh,
12:01
they're not gonna want to meet
12:04
with me. Because statistically,
12:04
like, I'm not, you know, I'm not
12:09
it. And so I wanted to create a
12:09
positive piece of content to
12:12
share examples of what's
12:12
possible for women in tech
12:16
globally. And I now interview
12:16
I've been to over 100 countries
12:19
now, interviewing women in tech,
12:19
and from intern level to like,
12:24
multiple exits on her journey
12:24
and how she got to where she is
12:28
today.
12:29  Alban
I know that you've
12:29
actually described the women in
12:32
tech podcast is you want people
12:32
to be able to hear these
12:35
stories, and then go, if she can
12:35
do it, so can I and it's like,
12:41
you're trying to empower people
12:41
from those episodes. He talks
12:44
about like, what are we trying?
12:44
What stories are you pulling
12:47
out? And what do you want your
12:47
audience to leave with?
12:49  Espree
So for we are la tack, I
12:49
want it. It's like a discovery
12:53
resource to know what's going on
12:53
in Los Angeles, who to talk to
12:56
where to go, what to utilize for
12:56
women in tech, it's for
13:01
listeners to walk away feeling
13:01
if she can do it. So can I like
13:04
I just both we are la tech and
13:04
women in tech and all the other
13:08
shows I create. I'm creating the
13:08
brag podcast right now, which is
13:11
business women reaching all
13:11
inspiring greatness. Like, it's
13:16
just all about believing in
13:16
oneself and being proud of your
13:20
achievements. And like this is
13:20
assuming that a lot of people
13:24
are like, are not assuming and
13:24
seeing that a lot of people are
13:27
really humble. When I like to
13:27
humble, like when I do the women
13:33
in tech podcast, I can't tell
13:33
you how many times a woman would
13:36
have said something like and one
13:36
did, and others have said
13:39
similar things. After the
13:39
interview was done. They'd say,
13:42
Oh, yeah, I was just on Forbes
13:42
last week. I'm like, why don't
13:46
you mention it? I don't know.
13:46
Like, I just didn't want to be
13:50
too. So I wanted to create, I
13:50
utilize podcasting to I guess,
13:57
you know, challenge things that
13:57
annoy me. So I wanted to create
14:01
like a safe place for women just
14:01
to proudly share their
14:04
achievements without without
14:04
reservation.
14:07  Alban
So after hearing all
14:07
these stories, where women
14:10
didn't want to highlight some of
14:10
their biggest achievement,
14:13
that's what got you to say,
14:13
Alright, I'm going to start this
14:16
brag podcast.
14:17  Espree
I just yeah, I think as
14:17
a culture, we don't share our
14:20
wins enough. And so I just
14:20
wanted, I mean, really, I just
14:24
want to show examples of sharing
14:24
wins. It's just true that as a
14:28
culture, we don't have as many
14:28
egotistical people.
14:34  Alban
What are the things that
14:34
I've heard you talk about quite
14:36
a few times is insecurity kind
14:36
of this feeling of imposter
14:40
syndrome? That people kind of
14:40
feel at the beginning of
14:44
anything? Yeah. What do you say
14:44
to somebody who's thinking about
14:47
starting a podcast or they're
14:47
thinking about starting to get
14:50
up on stage at clubhouse or
14:50
maybe submit their first You
14:55
know, there's first talk to
14:55
speak at a conference. What do
14:58
you say to that person?
15:00  Espree
Well, I mean, I still
15:00
get nervous every time I give a
15:04
talk like it's, it's a, it's
15:04
really energetically taxing, and
15:10
I have yet to feel comfortable
15:10
before giving a talk. So
15:15
everybody has that no matter how
15:15
seasoned you are. But what I
15:18
would say is I, I'm not
15:18
religious, but one time, I was
15:21
listening to a pastor, and he
15:21
was sharing how, like, the
15:25
universe, you know, gives us
15:25
gifts, and there for us to share
15:30
with the world. So it's not up
15:30
to us to like, decide not to
15:35
share our gifts, like, like,
15:35
that's just being selfish. And I
15:39
thought that was a really
15:39
interesting perspective. So
15:41
instead of like, Oh, I'm nervous
15:41
about what I will look like, or
15:45
the it's not about you, it's
15:45
about sharing your gifts that
15:49
you were so lucky to be given.
15:50  Alban
So think reframing it not
15:50
as, hey, am I worthy of getting
15:56
myself on stage and acting like
15:56
I know everything? Instead,
15:59
it's, well, I have been given
15:59
the opportunity to learn this
16:02
stuff. So it's kind of a
16:02
obligation for me to go and give
16:05
back.
16:07  Espree
I don't know about
16:07
obligation. That's another like,
16:12
that's take that up with the
16:12
universe.
16:17  Alban
It's, it's a opportunity
16:17
to share Well, yeah,
16:21  Espree
yeah, I think that's a
16:21
little more fair. But I choose
16:24
to live a very purposeful life.
16:24
And sometimes my life, actually,
16:28
oftentimes My life is like,
16:28
really difficult. I go through a
16:31
lot of challenges in order to
16:31
live a very purposeful life, but
16:35
I just feel like a really strong
16:35
commitment to, yeah, to just
16:41
show up and serve, I can't
16:41
explain it. It's like something
16:44
inside my body where I just
16:44
default to that. And, and, you
16:49
know, it gets confusing with
16:49
match. If you pay, I'm not one
16:53
that pays a lot of attention to
16:53
metrics, and I proactively do my
16:56
best not to pay attention, but
16:56
I'm human. So I'll have like my
16:59
moments, you know. And I find
16:59
whenever I have those moments,
17:03
where I'm paying attention to
17:03
metrics, those are the moments
17:05
I'm not serving, I'm looking at
17:05
the wrong thing. And so I think
17:10
it's really important to like,
17:10
in this digital age, we live in,
17:14
everyone's on metric doubt, like
17:14
they follow vetting on follower
17:18
accounts. And this is like, No,
17:18
just show up to serve show up to
17:22
if one person shows up value,
17:22
that's a human being value their
17:27
life, you know, people aren't a
17:27
user or an email address that
17:30
they're human with their own
17:30
problems. And if someone's
17:33
posting hate online, they're
17:33
probably hurting and lonely.
17:36
Like, you know, there's just
17:36
like, let's let's inspire
17:40
compassion, unity, acknowledging
17:40
others being seen feeling seen.
17:45  Alban
One of the things I
17:45
actually recently shared this on
17:48
Twitter, it was a kind of like a
17:48
cartoon. I think it's like, 115
17:52
people. And I'm like, this is
17:52
what 115 people look like. And
17:56
so if you see your download
17:56
numbers are 115 people don't
18:01
think wow, that's rough. It's
18:01
nothing close to, I don't know,
18:05
Mr. Beast video on YouTube with
18:05
millions of views? Well, he took
18:09
like, six years plus to get
18:09
there. Right? Exactly. It, I've
18:15
just like, think of the this
18:15
photo, like this is what 115
18:19
people look like. And in
18:19
podcasting, it can get isolating
18:23
that we are kind of talking into
18:23
a mic and really hoping there's
18:26
somebody listening on the other
18:26
end. And if you can reframe it
18:30
not as this is the numbers and
18:30
I've got to continually hit New
18:34
number new levels instead think,
18:34
Wow, I've got 115 people that
18:40
continually show up and listen
18:40
to what I have to say and are
18:43
finding some value. It really
18:43
changes your relationship with
18:48
the podcast
18:49  Espree
well that and that's why
18:49
people I always suggest people
18:51
start with their why and their
18:51
purpose. The only reason you
18:55
would care that you have 115
18:55
lessons and not something else
18:59
is because you're potentially in
18:59
it for the wrong reasons. You
19:03
know like you think you thought
19:03
it was like a fast payday or
19:07
something. If you're going to
19:07
start podcasting know your
19:12
purpose and your why that you
19:12
want to start podcasting.
19:15  Alban
So what are some of the
19:15
you know, some good why's for
19:18
why people would start a podcast
19:18
and maybe Are there any red
19:21
flags if people say I'm sorry, a
19:21
podcast because of this, you
19:24
might go maybe don't
19:27  Espree
I mean, get get rich
19:27
quick schemes. Yeah, I just
19:33
think I think it's like and also
19:33
very ego driven. I want to be
19:38
famous or something.
19:39  Alban
What are some good
19:39
reasons to start a podcast? What
19:42
are some good wise?
19:43  Espree
I mean, what I truly
19:43
endorse and believe in is like
19:47
unifying people and community
19:47
and creating relationships and
19:51
elevating and champion others.
19:51
So I think a great a great
19:54
reason to start a podcast is in
19:54
order or like a mindful podcast
19:59
in order to Community look in
19:59
the day and age we live in and
20:03
the amount of fears that we have
20:03
now and all this stuff. We need
20:06
more examples of love and unity
20:06
and acceptance and kindness and,
20:10
and maybe even like safely
20:10
listening to other people's
20:13
stories in private, maybe
20:13
people, some people want to get
20:16
educated, but they're afraid to
20:16
ask the questions. So if you're
20:19
asking the questions on their
20:19
behalf, that's really helpful to
20:23
to our, you know, global
20:23
community at large. So I would
20:26
love if more people utilize
20:26
podcasting in order to elevate
20:31
others, I never I never started
20:31
podcasting to to be famous. I
20:37
just really cared the weirdly
20:37
type podcast I started because
20:41
in building the first actions
20:41
for social network, that was
20:44
really hard that was like, that
20:44
was that was really, really hard
20:49
and isolating, it was a hard
20:49
isolating journey and a lot of
20:52
things. And it wasn't a thing to
20:52
start a PA a start a start up at
20:56
that time. I I, it wasn't the
20:56
cool thing. There was no HBO
21:01
show. So like, so I, I don't
21:01
know, I just wanted, I wanted to
21:08
utilize my skill set of video
21:08
production to or I should say
21:13
content production, to elevate
21:13
people in Los Angeles. So maybe
21:17
they haven't even like 1% easier
21:17
than I did. And, and that was my
21:22
why's I just really wanted to
21:22
like lesson, even a tiny little
21:28
bit of the entrepreneurial pain.
21:28
And then the women in tech I
21:32
shared earlier is you know, to
21:32
so women believe in in
21:36
themselves more I don't start a
21:36
podcast thinking I want to be
21:39
famous. Like, that's just I
21:39
don't know, it's weird. I mean,
21:43
maybe maybe that's judgy I'm
21:43
sorry, like, maybe some people
21:47
like that's their dream to be
21:47
famous. It's not it is not my
21:50
dream,
21:50  Alban
I often think back how
21:50
much the world has changed in at
21:54
least my lifetime where like the
21:54
internet would not have tagged
21:58
it. I mean, I guess the internet
21:58
existed, but nobody was on it
22:00
when I was young. And now
22:00
everybody is completely
22:04
surrounded with the internet, we
22:04
see like a lot of the positives
22:07
and the negatives. But one of
22:07
the things that I see is
22:11
incredibly positive that
22:11
podcasting is able to do is
22:16
there's a lot of like teaching
22:16
and learning and stories and
22:21
insight that is kind of just
22:21
locked up in a few people's
22:25
heads. There's people who reach
22:25
new levels in any, any business,
22:31
any community, any creative
22:31
endeavor. And it's really just a
22:36
few lucky people who get to work
22:36
with them. Maybe they get an
22:40
accidental conversation. And
22:40
they learn some of what these
22:45
you know, whether it be an
22:45
artist or an entrepreneur, what
22:47
they've learned. And then
22:47
podcasting has made it like
22:50
totally acceptable to go and ask
22:50
almost anybody and say, Hey,
22:55
would you spend an hour sharing?
22:55
Yeah, what's important to you?
22:58
What are some of your top
22:58
lessons? And then I will give it
23:01
to anybody who wants it? And
23:01
nobody has to ask permission or
23:05
feel weird asking you for an
23:05
hour of your time?
23:07  Espree
Totally. Yeah. I mean,
23:07
how many times have you been
23:11
asked like, Hey, can I pick your
23:11
brain? Or, like, let's grab
23:18
coffee? Like, no, you may not
23:18
pick my brain. And I spend more
23:24
time with my mom. So I will not
23:24
grab coffee. You know, like, so
23:29
like a podcast is this amazing
23:29
way that is a win win for both
23:33
people involved. And it's not
23:33
necessarily like an
23:38
energetically depleting
23:38
activity. It's like you're able
23:41
to serve beyond just the two
23:41
people there.
23:44  Alban
What are the other things
23:44
that I realized kind of shifting
23:47
gears? Yeah. When I was
23:47
researching this about you is
23:50
you're always You're a very
23:50
early adopter. I noticed right
23:54
to
24:00
you're getting it to podcast, he
24:00
incredibly early, you are
24:03
incredibly early to the LA tech
24:03
scene. I mean, I think by the
24:06
time that you were starting your
24:06
business, and you're getting
24:10
into that scene, it couldn't
24:10
have been more than a handful of
24:14
people.
24:14  Espree
Also, I created the LA
24:14
tech scene along with 20 other
24:18
people. So there was no la text.
24:18
Like I create, I had my sports
24:24
company and we had an office in
24:24
Santa Monica, there was no
24:27
startup anything. And a bunch of
24:27
us would get together at this
24:32
guy's house, this investors
24:32
house and we'd have barbecues.
24:35
And it was about 20 of us. It
24:35
happened all the time. And then
24:38
eventually, those 20 people,
24:38
including me included did so
24:42
much community work that now LA
24:42
is one of the top tech cities in
24:46
the world, which is wild. It's
24:46
not like we set out to do that.
24:49
We just did
24:50  Alban
it. I found this. You
24:50
also were obviously really early
24:53
to clubhouse. You. It was just
24:53
like over and over. You had a
24:58
website you were building
24:58
Websites before, like, almost
25:02
any of these website builders
25:02
are out there. So I'm sure you
25:05
were just like, Hey encoding
25:05
things with HTML and CSS like
25:08
hp. An idea of what this is in
25:08
your like, what is it about you
25:13
or your personality that kind of
25:13
spots these things gets very
25:16
into them early on?
25:18  Espree
Yeah, first of all, I
25:18
think it's luck. Like I was also
25:22
one of the early people on
25:22
YouTube and on Twitter and like,
25:25
it's, it's super luck. my newest
25:25
one that I think a lot of people
25:29
are gonna adopt a stereo, but I
25:29
don't know, I don't like
25:32
necessarily make predictions.
25:32
What is stereo? Really?
25:37  Alban
I have no idea. It's
25:37
stereo
25:38  Espree
job. Okay, see crazy, so
25:38
cool. So stereo is like this
25:43
amazing, simplified podcasting
25:43
app where you could record like,
25:48
someone could record their
25:48
podcast on stereo, and then they
25:51
could upload it to a buzz
25:51
Buzzsprout RSS feed as their
25:54
podcast. But what's cool, it's
25:54
like live podcasting. Sort of,
25:59
but you're not intruded by the
25:59
listener. So you're doing your
26:02
podcast, they, You both look
26:02
like cartoon characters. And you
26:06
guys are having a conversation.
26:06
So it's an audio social network
26:11
that connects you with random
26:11
people in the world. And you can
26:14
just have conversations.
26:14
However, you could also plan to
26:17
have a podcast episode like you
26:17
and I can schedule jumping on
26:21
together. And then they make it
26:21
really easy to export your audio
26:25
really easy to have like little
26:25
video clips, like of the
26:29
segment, it's recorded, it is on
26:29
stereo recorded, but you could
26:33
export the audio and upload it
26:33
to your podcast, distribution
26:38
company and be on all the other,
26:38
you know, players as well. So I
26:42
just think it's, I just think
26:42
it's really, really cool. And
26:45
the reason I think, I think it's
26:45
so easy to pick up, like there's
26:49
nothing intimidating, like a
26:49
mic, the audio quality
26:52
strangely, like, great. And so
26:52
because the people aren't using
26:58
mics and stuff like that, you
26:58
know, so I think, um, and now,
27:04
they're booking a lot of
27:04
influencers, like YouTube
27:07
influencers, to be utilizing it,
27:07
and these tremendous YouTube
27:11
influencers, they only have like
27:11
20 people listening to their
27:15
live thing, but they're doing
27:15
it. So just knowing that you
27:18
have these multi million YouTube
27:18
influencers utilizing stereo,
27:23
and liking it, and staying
27:23
committed, even though there's
27:26
only 20 stereo listeners, you
27:26
know, and watching how it's like
27:30
been growing over, I don't know,
27:30
I also randomly created Tick
27:33
Tock while going for like, and I
27:33
posted my stereo, and I went
27:38
viral, I probably sent 40,000
27:38
people to stereo. Like, well,
27:43
yeah, I don't know if I
27:43
described it well, but um, but
27:47
to your question of being.
27:50  Alban
So it sounds like it's a
27:50
clubhouse podcast, combination,
27:54
where you're getting, you're
27:54
doing an audio conversation, but
27:56
now you're able to save it,
27:56
upload it as a podcast, and just
27:59
one on one. And then you've got
27:59
this. Oh, no, yeah.
28:03  Espree
So it's just you and I
28:03
like this. We should do a stereo
28:07
later, like this. Actually, I'd
28:07
like to do a stereo with you
28:11
later. So how I plan to use
28:11
stereo is I'd like to have like,
28:15
casual conversations with people
28:15
in my podcast network, just
28:20
about podcasting. But super
28:20
casual. That's the cool thing
28:23
about Siri like, I could be
28:23
doing the dishes or whatever.
28:27
But the conversations being
28:27
recorded, and there's something
28:30
that's so cool, it's not edited
28:30
or anything. So there's
28:32
something so cool. That's
28:32
organic about it. That I don't
28:35
know, like, I've been listening
28:35
to airac, the YouTuber airac and
28:40
his managers, stereo episodes
28:40
learning so much. I did they
28:45
send you one. I think I sent it.
28:45
I may have sent it to you.
28:48  Alban
I don't think so. But if
28:48
I would love to hear it. So if
28:51
you I feel
28:52  Espree
like I did send it to
28:52
you and Twitter dm all the
28:54
social platforms. I'm pretty
28:54
sure but I won't.
28:58  Alban
I will have to scroll
28:58
back and find it. So stereo app
29:02
is the new thing. I feel like
29:02
you do have a good sense for
29:05
what what's coming next. So if
29:05
anyone's watching this, maybe a
29:09
couple weeks from now you're
29:09
gonna maybe you'll know you're
29:12
in the future. So you will know.
29:12
The next big thing,
29:16  Espree
but yeah, I don't so I'm
29:16
not like I as a high schooler, I
29:22
actually did read books about
29:22
trend spotting. I was a high
29:25
school journalist and but I've
29:25
never considered myself a trend
29:28
spotter. I just realized in
29:28
retrospect, like wow, I really
29:33
was on these. I was on the
29:33
future before I knew it was
29:37
gonna be the future. Um, so it's
29:37
a it's been weird. It's been
29:44
like super weird. And I think I
29:44
get it from my father, like he
29:48
was an early adopter. So it's
29:48
probably just like in my blood
29:51
to be an early adopter as well.
29:51
But um, but I definitely start
29:55
to get like, I wouldn't say
29:55
bored just like kind of over it
29:59
when something's popped. Killer
29:59
I'm like, and now let me find
30:02
something more interesting. But
30:02
it's not really because of the
30:05
popularity, it's because the
30:05
intimacy is lost. And I really,
30:10
let's why I enjoy producing
30:10
events that are like eight
30:13
people, rather than a few 100 P,
30:13
I'm very good at producing an
30:17
event for a few 100 people, but
30:17
like, what it really like, makes
30:21
me Glee is is like eight people
30:21
just seeing like a dinner party
30:26
simulated vibe, you know,
30:28  Alban
yeah. so that people can
30:28
connect and actually have
30:30
conversations and kind of build
30:30
the community feel that you're
30:33
looking
30:33  Espree
right. So clubhouse,
30:33
Twitter, like YouTube, like for
30:39
YouTube, we'd go to VidCon. And
30:39
it was just like a handful of
30:43
us. And I knew all of them, you
30:43
know, like, then Twitter, we
30:46
would do tweet ups. And it was
30:46
so cool. And then, you know,
30:49
clubhouses, it's like, and then
30:49
they get big and millions. And
30:53
then it's like, and then it's
30:53
like, you don't really see your
30:56
same friends anymore. And the
30:56
intimacy is gone.
31:00  Alban
I love that way of
31:00
thinking about it is that we're
31:02
really just eating with all
31:02
these new tools, that it's just
31:05
trying to find a new way to
31:05
reconnect with the people that
31:08
we, you know, want to be around
31:08
and especially right now is, you
31:12
know, COVID is you still
31:12
pandemic in the states that
31:17
we're all a little bit more
31:17
separated, we'd like to be in
31:19
some of these towns are kind of
31:19
helping us get back together.
31:22
Totally. So for people thinking
31:22
about podcasting right now, what
31:27
would you What would you tell
31:27
them? They you've, we've talked
31:30
about, you know, you've kind of
31:30
got to just get started, we've
31:33
talked a little bit about,
31:33
there's more opportunity than
31:36
you think, what are some of the
31:36
other basics that you would want
31:40
to share with people? What
31:40
things have you learned over
31:44
eight years of podcasting? What
31:44
things have you learn things you
31:49
think people should know?
31:50  Espree
First of all, we were
31:50
talking about this a little bit
31:53
like before the interview, I do
31:53
think that there's something
31:58
irreplaceable to podcast in
31:58
person, I definitely consider
32:03
myself an in person show. So as
32:03
soon as it feels comfortable to
32:09
be back in person, again,
32:09
without a doubt, I will race off
32:13
of remote podcasting. Back to in
32:13
person. I'll give you one
32:18
example from my weirdly tech
32:18
podcast, I'd scheduled two
32:21
interviews back to back knowing
32:21
that they could do business
32:24
together. So when they're
32:24
crossing paths, there's like a
32:27
little like, relationship making
32:27
happening. And then it increases
32:33
the value of my podcast world.
32:33
Overall, right? That can't
32:39
happen remotely. I try sometimes
32:39
I have a conference line. And
32:43
I'll have one person call in
32:43
back to back with the other
32:45
person. And I'm like, and I'll
32:45
have them meet one another. Like
32:48
I do that quite often. But it's,
32:48
it's also not the same. And I
32:54
never know if someone's gonna
32:54
think like, Oh, my gosh, what
32:57
did I get myself into?
33:00  Alban
Do you? Yeah. Do you feel
33:00
like that, that the interviews
33:04
kind of go better when you're in
33:04
person? Are there any tips that
33:08
people can use when they're
33:08
actually recording remotely to
33:12
actually get one of that vibe,
33:14  Espree
there's no chance that
33:14
the audio quality would ever
33:17
even come close to in person,
33:17
like and I miss the in person
33:23
audio quality? I think you
33:23
better build rapport for longer
33:29
term relationships. I mean,
33:29
there's just so much there's
33:34
like an energy and an enjoyment
33:34
and a fun, a lot of YouTubers
33:38
are still podcasting in person.
33:38
Which, you know, they have to go
33:44
through the whole thing Joe
33:44
Rogan's still podcasting in
33:46
person, he has to, you know, do
33:46
the whole COVID test, and
33:50
there's all these things that
33:50
you have to go through, and
33:52
they're expensive, and it's
33:52
hard. And even with that, it's
33:54
still scary, you don't know, you
33:54
know. But that's how important
33:59
in person is these people are
33:59
going through all these humps.
34:02
Now, just to say podcasting in
34:02
person, it's just podcasting is
34:08
not a zoom call.
34:10  Alban
There's definitely I have
34:10
felt quite a bit of zoom fatigue
34:14
myself after about 13 months of
34:14
spending all this time staring
34:19
at a camera, and not even often
34:19
being able to look at the
34:22
person's face. So totally, I
34:22
totally appreciate that. And
34:27  Espree
I can't wait to like
34:27
look back at this period of life
34:30
rather than, like be living
34:30
through the
34:34  Alban
it 2026 like, my
34:34
daughter's gonna walk up and
34:38
like find a mask and she's gonna
34:38
be like, what are these frogs?
34:41
And I'll be like, Oh, don't you
34:41
remember, like, when you were
34:44
five, like there was a, there
34:44
was a pandemic. We had to wear
34:47
masks all the time. And she's
34:47
like, Oh, yeah, I kind of
34:49
remember. We're, like, you know,
34:49
someday we will be there looking
34:53
back on this and fighting
34:53
basketball around our house
34:56
guiley.
34:57  Espree
I hope we get to look
34:57
back sooner than later. But
35:00
we'll table that very cute that
35:00
you have a five year old. By the
35:03
way, I can't imagine having a
35:03
five year old like during this
35:07
time. Sure it's taking your
35:07
dad's skills to a new level.
35:11  Alban
What are the other things
35:11
that I see a lot of podcasters
35:13
it's really difficult is there's
35:13
two groups that were afraid of
35:19
when we start podcasting, maybe
35:19
three, but one is just friends
35:25
and family, like the people who
35:25
we just are still connected to
35:29
on Facebook. I put stuff out and
35:29
I cringe thinking, some buddy I
35:35
knew in college is going to see
35:35
it and think what is Alvin think
35:39
he's all about, like putting
35:39
himself up on YouTube, he looks
35:42
like a dork. You know that they
35:42
knew me. And they will think ill
35:47
of me. And then you've just got
35:47
people who are mean online who
35:51
are gonna leave me and reviews
35:51
no matter what. And then you've
35:54
kind of got yourself that, you
35:54
know, often we're our own worst
35:58
critics kind of looking at
35:58
critiquing everything we do,
36:02
like, what tips and strategies
36:02
can people implement to get over
36:06
each of those hurdles?
36:08  Espree
I have a friend who's a
36:08
celebrity and I asked him the
36:12
same question because it's, it's
36:12
overwhelming. The. So my friend
36:17
is like, a classically, like
36:17
incredibly looking person, you
36:21
know, like, superhero kind of
36:21
thing. And he says online, he
36:24
gets things that he's like, fat
36:24
and ugly, and you know, so even
36:29
someone who's like textbook,
36:29
like, what they're supposed to
36:33
look like to be attractive, gets
36:33
all this hate. He and he was
36:36
saying, look, you can't, you
36:36
can't control the hate, I would
36:41
suggest having someone look over
36:41
the comments instead of you not
36:45
not getting caught up in that
36:45
kind of thing. Um, understand
36:50
that people are lonely. So
36:50
they're communicating something
36:54
because they're lonely. Um, it's
36:54
really just about really doing
36:59
your best to not pay attention
36:59
to the wrong area and really
37:03
stay confident and grounded in
37:03
yourself and your own self
37:06
identity in your own self worth
37:06
and self value and do if you're
37:09
going to be even moderately in
37:09
the spotlight do an immense
37:12
amount of work to build up that
37:12
resilience. Arlen Hamilton says
37:17
he doesn't she doesn't want to
37:17
put the haters out of a job to
37:20
everyone needs a job.
37:27
It's tough, you know, and I was
37:27
just watching something
37:30
yesterday, this guy posted
37:30
something horrific. to Facebook,
37:35
I saw it on the news. And then
37:35
the local news, like, went to go
37:40
address, you know, the person
37:40
about this horrific post.
37:43
They're like, Oh, no, I didn't
37:43
mean it wasn't what I would
37:47
like, I didn't mean that.
37:47
They're like, okay, there's no
37:49
other way to take what you
37:49
wrote. So, people are just
37:53
keyboard warriors, you know, and
37:53
it sucks. I think it totally
37:57
sucks. It completely makes me
37:57
want to live in a forest away
37:59
from everything. Like I'm not
37:59
down. I'm not down with it. I'm
38:04
scared of it myself. Which is
38:04
why I would have conversations
38:07
like that with my friends. Like,
38:07
I just like, yeah, it just
38:12
sucks. And you have to build as
38:12
much self resilience, maybe
38:15
start therapy now.
38:19  Alban
Pre emptive therapy?
38:19
Yeah, the trolls come out
38:22
totally. It helps to remember a
38:22
lot of these people what their
38:26
writing is much more reflective
38:26
of their internal state than of
38:31
what we've done. You put up a
38:31
video and somebody you know, has
38:35
some I got you get weird
38:35
comments on your YouTube videos
38:39
every time we put them up. And,
38:39
you know, like, if you go look
38:43
at that person's comments, like
38:43
most of them are very negative.
38:46
And it's probably because
38:46
they're coming from they're
38:48
struggling. And you know, their
38:48
way of, you know, kind of
38:52
venting that ends up somehow on
38:52
your YouTube video. And if
38:57
you're creating media to
38:57
interact and encourage 1000s 10s
39:04
of 1000s of people every
39:04
episode, well, then some percent
39:09
of that audience is going to
39:09
dislike you. Maybe for somebody
39:14
has nothing to do with you. They
39:14
were just having a rough day.
39:17
And he became the target.
39:19  Espree
And check out my
39:19
girlfriend, Allie spagnola she
39:22
has a YouTube channel and she
39:22
does this awesome video tracking
39:25
down one of her haters to find
39:25
out who her hater actually is.
39:29
This person has been hating on
39:29
her consistently for years. So
39:34
she decided like, I'm going to
39:34
figure out like, who this person
39:37
is and why they're obsessed with
39:37
like sending me negative
39:40
comments. And it's quite
39:40
interesting. How Yeah, it's
39:46
quite I mean, I'll just I'll
39:46
jump to the end I it's a spoiler
39:49
alert. But But definitely watch
39:49
it to get the full context of
39:53
the story but turns out to be
39:53
like a father with like a young
39:56
child like it's like bizarre
39:56
that This person Oh, that's I
40:02
think religious you know, things
40:02
like that. Like, it's bizarre
40:05
that someone would be so
40:05
consistently sending her this
40:09
very strange, same Hey, comment,
40:09
by the way over and over and
40:12
over again.
40:13  Alban
There's a really good
40:13
YouTube podcast that's kind of
40:17
similar now I'm gonna totally
40:17
forget who the author was, as a
40:21
woman who's writing for maybe,
40:21
might have been for Jessica
40:24
bell. It was for like a, a
40:24
pretty popular blog that now I
40:28
don't think is around anymore.
40:28
But she's writing and CAD kind
40:32
of one guy who always showed up.
40:32
Yeah. And even when her father
40:37
passed, he made a fake out that
40:37
was her father. No, is
40:41
commenting on things. Yeah, it
40:41
was. That's awful. I think she
40:45
talked about it on a blog. And
40:45
he realized, Oh, my gosh, I and
40:52
my own weird ignorance have been
40:52
venting out to someone who
40:57
wasn't real in my mind, just add
40:57
a blog, you know, I was just
41:01
yelling at this blog. And I was
41:01
doing things that were mean, and
41:04
but to me, were funny. And then
41:04
he realized this is a woman. And
41:09
she's been struggling with the
41:09
stuff I've been saying for
41:11
years. And they end up like
41:11
interviewing, she interviews
41:15
him. And they reconcile, after
41:15
he reached out said, Hey, I'm
41:18
allowing you to share my name
41:18
and what I've done, and I'm not
41:23
anonymous anymore, and I really
41:23
want to apologize. Is this
41:26
incredible? And now I've totally
41:26
forgotten who it is. So I will
41:28
have to link it in the I would
41:28
love for you. Yeah, it was so
41:32
powerful to hear. Because we
41:32
often like we imagine everyone
41:38
is as evil as their worst
41:38
moments. And then to see people
41:43
kind of come together. And
41:43
there's like, there's so much
41:47
more to people than just the
41:47
worst thing they ever said. Or,
41:51
you know, it was that we will
41:51
have to like that for everybody.
41:54  Espree
I totally why Yeah, I
41:54
please, I want to hear that. But
41:58
do you see how like we're
41:58
talking about at the beginning,
42:01
utilize podcasting to elevate
42:01
others, like that is a great
42:05
story being shared, that's not
42:05
about someone becoming famous.
42:08
That's about showing people
42:08
what's possible and, and helping
42:11
empower, compassion and
42:11
understanding and he like, so
42:17
great. So we're not talking
42:17
about it. Because we want her to
42:20
be more famous. We're talking
42:20
about the impact it's had,
42:22  Alban
right. And podcasts
42:22
because they're long form media.
42:28
podcasts, in general, you can
42:28
get people to listen to podcasts
42:31
for 40 minutes. And that's not
42:31
all that surprising. If you're
42:34
getting four and a half minutes
42:34
of a YouTube view. That's really
42:38
good. And so people spend so
42:38
much more time invested in a
42:42
podcast episode, a ad when you
42:42
have that length of engagement,
42:47
I think humanity really starts
42:47
to shine through when you hear
42:50
someone's voice for a long
42:50
period of time. You hear more of
42:53
what they think we can only be
42:53
fake for so long. And then
42:56
eventually people start seeing
42:56
who we really are. And once all
43:00
that search showing through, I
43:00
think it's a lot more difficult
43:04
to just fire off like a you
43:04
know, just a mean comment out
43:09
someone's appearance or
43:09
something. Totally, totally. So
43:12
spree thank you so much for
43:12
doing this interview. I've
43:16
really enjoyed it. I really
43:16
enjoyed hearing your
43:18
perspective. And hopefully
43:18
everybody who's watching this is
43:21
enjoying it as well. If people
43:21
want to learn more about you
43:24
follow you listen to the
43:24
podcasts, where should they go?
43:27  Espree
At first of all, Does
43:27
everybody know that they should
43:29
be following you on Twitter?
43:29
Like your your tweets? Or like
43:33
Do people know that can you
43:33
please tell them about your
43:35
epicness on Twitter and how you
43:35
massively report on things and
43:40
in the most complete detail,
43:42  Alban
Twitter's like the new
43:42
thing that I've tried to do so
43:44
if anybody wants to come over
43:44
and you know, ask any questions
43:49
or wants any help with
43:49
podcasting, please come on over
43:51
to my Twitter profile. I'd love
43:51
to share what I've learned about
43:54
podcasting and help you on your
43:54
journey to maybe
43:56  Espree
you need to be on the
43:56
podcast. Maybe you need to be on
44:00
the right like no I'm telling
44:00
you this Twitter no this this
44:03
episode, though, is about
44:03
helping others and your
44:05
Twitter's legitimately, rarely
44:05
helpful. Like it's like it's a
44:10
rare thing to have high value
44:10
tweets so that your tweets are
44:14
consistently like these research
44:14
reports. You're like in case you
44:18
missed the apple, you know going
44:18
live let me just report it for
44:23
you. I'm like what Thank you
44:23
like because I did have to do
44:26
multiple things that day anyway
44:26
to to reach me speaking of
44:30
Twitter, or any social media,
44:30
its ad is free devorah or email
44:34
me is spree@hay.com. So that's
44:34
ESP ar e@hgy.com and I feel like
44:41
my socials will probably be
44:41
linked in the in the thing and I
44:45
put in the show notes. I post
44:45
social recaps on my Instagram
44:50
and my Twitter of like when I do
44:50
my podcasters class club and
44:53
stuff. So if you're looking for
44:53
kind of tips and tricks in the
44:56
podcasting world, my social
44:56
media is where it's at.
45:00  Alban
We will put links to all
45:00
of it in the show notes and in
45:02
the YouTube description can
45:02
follow you over there. Awesome.
45:06
Well thank you so much for
45:06
joining us and we really
45:08
appreciate it and until next
45:08
time, everybody, God podcasting