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Buzzcast is a roundtable discussion about podcasting from the people at Buzzsprout. We'll cover current events and news, podcast strategy, tools we are using, and dip into the Customer Support mailbag to test our podcasting knowledge. If you want to stay up-to-date on what's working in podcasting, Buzzcast is the show for you.

https://buzzcast.buzzsprout.com/

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episode 55: Will Facebook be good for podcasting? + Amazon buys Art19 [transcript]


In this episode, Tom Buck joins the crew to discuss Amazon's recent acquisitions, Facebook's new social audio features, and going from a 9-to-5 career to being a full-time YouTuber.

Check out Tom's YouTube channel and his podcast, The Enthusiasm Project.

Links from this episode:

  • Amazon buys the Smartless podcast for $60 Million
  • Amazon acquires podcast host Art19
  • Listen to "How to Start a Podcast" on Buzzsprout's FB page (only works on the mobile app)


Review Buzzcast in Podchaser or Apple Podcasts to let us know what you think of the show.

Buzzsprout's Dynamic Content tool now allows you to save multiple clips in your Dynamic Content Library and track how many downloads each clip receives. Learn more on our New Features page.


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 2021-07-02  56m
 
 
00:00  Travis
It'll just be a matter
00:00
of time until somebody says, You
00:02
know what, we're going to bundle
00:02
all of these premium content on
00:06
these different platforms
00:06
together into a single place. So
00:09
you just pay one monthly fee,
00:09
and we reinvent cable TV. But
00:13
for
00:14  Alban
God's sake come
00:15  Travis
full circle.
00:16  Alban
Oh, did you want HBO
00:16
podcast? That's another $15 a
00:20
month. Why do we do this?
00:29  Travis
Today on Buzzcast,
00:29
Amazon has gotten into the
00:32
acquisition game. So we're gonna
00:32
cover all the latest news of the
00:35
podcasts and the companies
00:35
they've reached, recently
00:38
acquired. Facebook's getting
00:38
into podcasts. So we'll talk
00:41
about kind of what you can
00:41
expect coming down the pipeline,
00:44
what is currently available,
00:44
what features are rolling out?
00:46
Are they good for podcasters?
00:46
And then also, what it's like to
00:50
make the shift from a side
00:50
hustle content creator to a full
00:54
time content creator. Thanks to
00:54
our guest host for this episode.
00:58
Tom buck. Tom. Welcome to
00:58
Buzzcast Thanks for making the
01:01
time to hang out with us today.
01:01
Yeah, thanks
01:03  Tom
for having me. It's It's
01:03
great to be back. And a lot has
01:07
happened since last time. So I'm
01:07
excited to talk about it.
01:10  Travis
Oh, yes, that's that's
01:10
definitely an understatement. So
01:13
I think it was December of 2020.
01:13
Last time you were on the show.
01:17
So yeah, it'll be great to catch
01:17
up with you and hear about all
01:19
the awesome things epic things
01:19
going on in Tom books world.
01:23
Alban, how are you doing, man?
01:23
Doing well,
01:26  Alban
I just caused us to
01:26
restart this recording like six
01:30
times. We started that way. Oh,
01:30
if echo cancellation turned on,
01:35
I'll turn that off, kicked off a
01:35
series of like restarts. So if
01:40
you can hear this, everything's
01:40
going well.
01:42  Travis
Yes, technology is
01:42
wonderful when it works.
01:45
Speaking of technology and the
01:45
techno giants of the world,
01:49
Amazon, they seem to be taking
01:49
over everything. They just went
01:52
through a nice little spending
01:52
spree. I guess, Jeff Bezos
01:55
didn't want to stop it as $500
01:55
million yacht that needs a
01:57
second yacht, just to be able to
01:57
sail around the world. He's like
02:00
we should we go buy some podcast
02:00
companies. So Alban, what are
02:03
the recent acquisitions that
02:03
Amazon just made, just in the
02:07
last week, and we'll walk
02:07
through kind of some of the some
02:11
of the downstream ramifications
02:11
of some of those moves.
02:14  Alban
Amazon got into
02:14
podcasting a little while ago,
02:18
where they launched, they added
02:18
podcast to amazon music. And
02:23
since they've done that, we've
02:23
seen amazon music account for
02:27
about 1% of podcasts in the
02:27
podcast ecosystem, at least from
02:31
the Buzzsprout side of things.
02:31
That's not a small number. And
02:36
they're growing. And as they
02:36
continue to give podcasting
02:40
bigger and bigger placement, it
02:40
will do even better. And the big
02:45
thing that Amazon's bringing
02:45
into this is a lot of those
02:48
plastic cylinders, that I won't
02:48
name them, or else they'll start
02:52
talking to you. But yeah, those
02:52
are in a lot of people's houses.
02:56
And that's a great way for
02:56
people to listen to podcasts,
02:59
you could say, what is you know,
02:59
play this podcast play the
03:04
enthusiasm project? Yeah. And
03:04
those plastic cylinders and
03:08
start playing an excellent
03:08
podcast by our friend Tom buck.
03:11
Yeah, so
03:13  Travis
yeah, Amazon podcast.
03:13
Right, Tom?
03:16  Tom
I should be submitted. It
03:18  Travis
was on music.
03:19  Tom
Yeah, I submitted the
03:19
request through my Buzzsprout
03:21
and so I should check and make
03:21
sure that I'm actually listed.
03:25  Alban
Yeah, if you submitted
03:25
it, you should be in there. But
03:28
Amazon really has like, you
03:28
know, taken a shot across the
03:32
bow of Spotify and everybody
03:32
else in the podcasting game when
03:36
they bought wondery wonder is
03:36
the number one podcast listen to
03:41
on $500 million yachts are
03:41
apparently Jim phases is like
03:47
lock it up, getting
03:50  Travis
gas, you know, got to
03:50
get my fix.
03:52  Alban
Got to get like itches.
03:52
So they bought wondery for
03:55
something like $300 million. I
03:55
don't know if the exact number
03:58
came out. And then last week, so
03:58
last ob a week ago, once you
04:05
listen to this, they it was
04:05
announced that they acquired Art
04:09
19 Art 19 is another podcast has
04:09
similar to Buzzsprout. The
04:13
differences while Buzzsprout is
04:13
really focused on indie
04:17
creators, helping people launch
04:17
shows Art 19 is kind of focused
04:23
on the opposite group, which is
04:23
everybody who's making these
04:27
super highly produced shows
04:27
mostly with there's like a team
04:30
behind it. And then they do a
04:30
lot with like selling ads for
04:33
these really big shows. So
04:33
similar technology, but very
04:38
different position. And so they
04:38
acquired Art 19 no number idea
04:43
on how much that is but probably
04:43
expensive. And then a few days
04:49
ago, they just announced that
04:49
they bought the or they acquired
04:54
the rights to this smart less
04:54
podcast, which I hadn't heard
04:58
before, but Now they're going to
04:58
have it on amazon music, and
05:04
it's going to have all the new
05:04
episodes. We'll start there. And
05:07
then a week later, they will be
05:07
available everywhere. And they
05:11
spent $80 million. So this is
05:11
definitely Amazon signaling to
05:18
the world. Hey, we like podcasts
05:18
too. We're ready to go.
05:22  Travis
So that detail is nuts
05:22
to me $80 million just to get
05:28
the episodes a week earlier
05:28
compared to all the other
05:31
directories not cuz because a
05:31
lot of these deals like with Joe
05:36
Rogan. And armchair expert with
05:36
Dax Shepard that are going
05:41
exclusive Spotify, Spotify
05:41
sailor daddy. Well, I mean,
05:45
yeah, Alban, your favorite
05:45
podcast, you listen to them.
05:47
Number one. Those are exclusive.
05:47
So that means if you want to
05:52
listen to them, they're only
05:52
available on Spotify, right, at
05:56
least until they realize they
05:56
can't drive enough downloads to
05:59
satisfy the sponsors. And then
05:59
they make them available
06:01
everywhere. Like the brock
06:01
obama, Bruce Springsteen podcast
06:05
that was then available and
06:05
other apps. But that's neither
06:09
here nor there. So they just
06:09
dropped a lot of money to get
06:12
into the game of we have
06:12
exclusive content to. And it
06:19
seems like Amazon just in
06:19
general feels like a company
06:23
that just likes to experiment
06:23
with lots of stuff and see what
06:25
sticks. And they may or may not
06:25
have a strategy, but they just
06:29
know there's a land grab right
06:29
now. And if we want to be a
06:32
player into the future, we
06:32
should throw our weight around.
06:35
Tom, I'm not sure what your
06:35
thoughts are. When you hear
06:37
about a company like Amazon,
06:37
landing these big companies and
06:41
acquisitions. What are your
06:41
thoughts horn,
06:43  Tom
I'm kind of torn because on
06:43
the one hand, like, I'll be
06:47
pretty open that I'm not a fan
06:47
of, of Spotify as strategy and
06:53
the walled garden of podcasting.
06:53
That's why I originally came to
06:57
Buzzsprout and left anchor was
06:57
because of that. And so in a way
07:02
I feel that it's I like seeing
07:02
another company kind of fire a
07:05
shot. Okay, cool. It's not just
07:05
one person who can sort of
07:08
dominate this space, but now
07:08
they're fighting. But then when
07:11
I just say billion dollar
07:11
corporations and multi million
07:14
dollar corporations, spending
07:14
absurd amounts of money on shows
07:18
for people who are already
07:18
absurdly rich, I don't know.
07:22
That's where it's like, it's
07:22
just not my universe. I know, I
07:24
guess it's all podcasting. But
07:24
that's not my show, which has
07:27
been out for I have three
07:27
podcasts. I've been doing it for
07:30
years. And I have made $0. So
07:30
I'm doing something wrong in
07:35
terms of that I have not made an
07:35
$80 million deal. I have lost
07:38
money because it costs money to
07:38
make them. So I you know, I
07:43
don't know if that's, I'm kind
07:43
of torn. But I think ultimately,
07:48
at least having more competition
07:48
where diversity is never going
07:51
to be a bad thing. And I hope
07:51
that I just hope that we always
07:56
are able to continue listening
07:56
to podcasts where we choose or
08:00
hosting them where you want to
08:00
host them, should it not be one
08:03
of these giant places.
08:05  Alban
I'm excited that Amazon
08:05
is getting involved in
08:08
podcasting, because you know,
08:08
the time where I was probably
08:12
the most pessimistic or, you
08:12
know, nervous that podcasting
08:15
could go into this walled garden
08:15
environment, similar to like,
08:19
what YouTube is, you know, video
08:19
and YouTube are almost
08:22
synonymous, was probably like
08:22
2019 when Spotify was like, Hey,
08:29
we're serious. We want to win
08:29
this. And it didn't seem like
08:33
Apple was super interested in
08:33
doing anything. Google launched
08:37
Google podcasts, but didn't seem
08:37
to invest a ton more into it.
08:43
And just over time I was seeing
08:43
Spotify is aggressive, has the
08:48
vision and is ready to go while
08:48
everybody else doesn't have the
08:53
vision maybe or the interest and
08:53
make sense, because these are
08:57
some of them trillion dollar
08:57
companies, looking at our small
09:01
little corner of the web, that's
09:01
podcasting. But still, you know,
09:05
you thought, Well, if it's only
09:05
Spotify, then maybe they could
09:09
win podcasting and make it this
09:09
walled garden that kind of takes
09:13
away a lot of what makes
09:13
podcasting special. At least the
09:18
podcasting that I've always
09:18
enjoyed. As soon as Facebook and
09:24
Amazon, and Apple, and Google
09:24
all start announcing even more
09:30
stuff. Well, then it starts
09:30
becoming Alright, there isn't
09:34
going to be a way for one
09:34
company to own this whole
09:41
industry. Spotify will have
09:41
their exclusives, Apple podcast,
09:45
subscriptions will do really
09:45
well. amazon music will add
09:49
podcasts and highlight them even
09:49
more, and then we'll start
09:53
having some exclusive shows
09:53
themselves. All of that combined
09:58
is going to lead too, hey,
09:58
anybody who's has a, you know,
10:04
RSS feed, they make themselves
10:04
use something like Buzzsprout or
10:07
another podcast host, you're
10:07
going to be able to get into
10:10
everything. And there's not
10:10
going to be some preferential
10:13
treatment for podcasts that are
10:13
exclusive. Or maybe there will
10:17
be some, but you will have the
10:17
benefits of being platform
10:21
agnostic. I'm kind of at the
10:21
point like, hey, if we're gonna
10:24
have one big player, I'd much
10:24
rather have all seven of them
10:28
involved, to make sure that all
10:28
the little guys don't get
10:32
wrecked along the way.
10:34  Tom
Yeah, that's kind of how I
10:34
that's kind of how I was feeling
10:37
about it, too, I guess is a good
10:37
way to put it. Because it's,
10:40
that's what I would not what I
10:40
would want to do as a listener
10:42
is okay, now I need to have
10:42
eight more monthly subscriptions
10:45
to access certain podcasts or as
10:45
the podcast greater to, then you
10:50
really have to pick the one
10:50
place that your show can be on.
10:53
So ultimately, I think, you
10:53
know, this is good for that.
10:58  Alban
I did not prep this for
10:58
the podcast. But can I read you
11:01
a quote, this isn't a this is
11:01
out of a book I'm reading. And
11:04
it's an anecdote, after Amazon
11:04
lost $170 million on the fire
11:10
phone. That was when they were
11:10
trying to create a competitor to
11:14
the iPhone, Jeff Bezos said, I
11:14
think to investors, if you think
11:18
that's a big failure, we're
11:18
working on much bigger failures
11:22
right now. I'm not kidding, some
11:22
of them are gonna make the fire
11:25
foot fire phone look like a tiny
11:25
Blip. And like, beta is more
11:30
than anybody is like really good
11:30
at saying, I put out a bet.
11:34
Let's go for it. Let's try it
11:34
the minute it doesn't work. I'm
11:39
not, you know, locked in to this
11:39
long term, we can just let it
11:42
go. And so it looks like they're
11:42
making a very strong strategic
11:48
bet on podcasting. I personally
11:48
hope it works out for him.
11:52
Because I, you know, the more
11:52
these big companies involved,
11:57
that I think the better it will
11:57
be for creators long term.
12:00  Tom
And they have they have
12:00
such a, I mean, Amazon has a
12:03
foot like foothold on media
12:03
stuff. So that's not a new area
12:07
to them. I mean, they started
12:07
with books, right? So they
12:10
consumable media things is one
12:10
of their specialties. So I can't
12:14
really imagine it not succeeding
12:14
in some way. for them.
12:18  Travis
Yeah, it'll just be a
12:18
matter of time, until somebody
12:21
says, You know what, we're gonna
12:21
bundle all of these premium
12:24
content on these different
12:24
platforms together into a single
12:27
place. So you just pay one
12:27
monthly fee, and we reinvent
12:31
cable TV and come full circle.
12:31
Instead of all these
12:36
subscriptions. Just what just
12:36
pay one monthly rate, you get
12:40
all of the different apps all in
12:40
one place. Oh, did you?
12:45  Alban
Cast that's another $15?
12:48  Tom
Why do we do this? We just
12:48
hate having freedom and options.
12:56  Alban
Speaking of a big company
12:56
that's joining the podcasting
12:59
scene, Facebook, the fastest a
12:59
company has ever made it to a
13:04
trillion dollars. Facebook just
13:04
hit a trillion dollars. And it
13:09
probably wasn't a coincidence
13:09
that they just announced
13:12
Facebook podcast at the same
13:12
time. That's it pushed it right
13:15
over the edge at the end.
13:18  Travis
That's like back in the
13:18
day when all these companies
13:20
were starting to add like
13:20
blockchain technology to their
13:23
their platform of like the
13:23
things that they do just to like
13:25
inflate their stock price. It's
13:25
like Facebook, jumping on
13:28
podcasts. Oh, my goodness, best
13:28
company ever.
13:32  Alban
trillion dollar they
13:32
actually I think it was the
13:34
there was like a anti trust case
13:34
that just got dismissed that
13:38
pushed him over a trillion. But
13:38
I would like to believe it was
13:42
also the podcasting news.
13:45  Tom
Power of podcasting. power
13:45
power. Yes.
13:48  Alban
Alright. So what's been
13:48
announced Facebook pretty much a
13:51
few weeks ago now months, said,
13:51
Hey, that clubhouse thing looks
13:56
cool. And this podcasting
13:56
thing's cool. And there's little
14:00
audio grams and sound bites
14:00
people make are cool. And yeah,
14:06
we're gonna build we're gonna
14:06
build all of that. And they just
14:09
basically said, we're gonna
14:09
build a clubhouse competitor,
14:12
cologne. Better to say, we're
14:12
going to build a way for you to
14:18
listen to podcasts inside of
14:18
Facebook. That's going to be
14:20
like a legit podcasting app.
14:20
We're going to make promotion
14:24
tools for podcasts. And we're
14:24
going to put it all together.
14:29
And so we can go into each of
14:29
those because each of them have
14:31
some like interesting pieces.
14:31
But they announced all this kind
14:38
of quickly. And which really led
14:38
me to believe it was much more
14:42
of kind of what you said
14:42
earlier, Travis the it's like
14:45
the company that's blockchain to
14:45
the name to like jump the stock
14:48
price in 2017. It was it felt a
14:48
little bit like that because
14:52
everyone was making their
14:52
announcements Apple, Spotify,
14:56
then Amazon, everyone's making
14:56
announcements about their moves
14:59
into apple. podcasting and
14:59
social audio. And then Facebook
15:02
was like a, we're actually
15:02
building all of that. And we're
15:06
adding it to Facebook and you're
15:06
like, Whoa, it's actually a
15:08
pretty big deal. And they, you
15:08
know, it seems like it looks
15:13
from the videos, like it's gonna
15:13
be pretty cool implementation.
15:18  Travis
I mean, I'm just really
15:18
grateful that Facebook finally
15:21
added some new features, because
15:21
there's not enough you can write
15:25
the
15:25  Alban
app is so wait.
15:28  Travis
It's just so
15:28
streamlines. No access, no, no
15:32
added fat. It's just exactly
15:32
what you need arguments with
15:36
your distant relatives
15:37  Alban
for that's what I what I
15:37
really want is one place, I can
15:42
go for baby photos, podcasts and
15:42
argument, my uncle about
15:47
politics, like I just need that
15:47
all bundled together into one
15:51
spot, but also
15:52  Travis
lots of ads for
15:53  Tom
semi related things that
15:53
I'm interested in.
15:56  Alban
Oh, man, the ads are
15:56
uncanny. And such as you get
16:00
them and you're, like, offended
16:00
that how good they are. I got
16:04
one about some like, hair loss
16:04
thing. And I was like, Oh, no,
16:08
it's Facebook. No. Check this
16:08
airline.
16:15  Tom
We've been looking at your
16:15
photos. And we noticed
16:19  Alban
that right?
16:21  Travis
Oh, Alban, you're doing
16:21
just fine. You're doing just
16:24
fine. So yeah, let's let's go
16:24
ahead and run, run through this.
16:27
Starting, starting with
16:27
Facebook, pulling in full
16:32
podcast episodes via RSS feed
16:32
and featuring them on your
16:36
Facebook page, if it's labeled
16:36
as a podcast is that say unlock
16:41
the feature.
16:42  Alban
So Facebook and podcasts
16:42
have had this kind of
16:44
interesting relationship for a
16:44
while back in the day, we used
16:47
to actually be able, we made it
16:47
so that if you shared a
16:50
Buzzsprout page that had a
16:50
podcast on it, you could play
16:54
that podcast, inside of you
16:54
know, the post, and it worked
16:59
perfectly. And at some point
16:59
Facebook took that ability away.
17:04
And so we weren't able to do it
17:04
and no other podcasts hosts were
17:07
able to do it. Then they
17:07
announced this partnership with
17:13
Spotify. So you could put
17:13
Spotify music into Facebook
17:16
posts and people could kind of
17:16
comment on them. And podcast did
17:21
work for that, like we shared
17:21
the Spotify link to a podcast,
17:24
it could be played. But the
17:24
difference is like with a
17:27
podcast, you mostly are
17:27
listening for a long period of
17:30
time versus a Facebook, where
17:30
you're scrolling through in the
17:34
two minutes while you wait in
17:34
line. So it wasn't always a
17:36
great setup. They're now making
17:36
this like it's almost a full
17:41
fledged podcast player. At least
17:41
it's very similar to how I think
17:45
about how people use podcasts on
17:45
YouTube, where it's, you can
17:51
look at the feed, it shows the
17:51
feed, it's got a cool audio gram
17:56
animation behind the artwork.
17:56
The biggest feature is comments.
18:03
So if anyone remembers how
18:03
SoundCloud features us, comments
18:07
used to work, it looks similar
18:07
to that. And you can leave
18:11
comments down below podcast
18:11
episodes, which is awesome for
18:15
building this community feeling.
18:15
I mean, I'm sure you guys can
18:19
remember when Joe Rogan went to
18:19
Spotify, the biggest complaint
18:24
from Joe and his audience was,
18:24
hey, we lost that Facebook
18:29
comment section. And that
18:29
actually was doing a lot of
18:32
work, where people were making
18:32
jokes and we're commenting on
18:37
the episode and linking to other
18:37
materials. You know, all that
18:40
kind of disappeared once you
18:40
went to Spotify, and there
18:43
wasn't a comment section. So
18:43
Facebook's building that comment
18:47
section out. And if you keep
18:47
scrolling, it can make that
18:53
little audio player can just sit
18:53
there at the bottom of the page.
18:59
So you can be scrolling through
18:59
your, you know, Twitter or your
19:02
Facebook rants from your uncle.
19:02
And you can see that while also
19:06
listening to a calming podcast.
19:06
And the feature that on all
19:12
podcast apps is obviously needed
19:12
is the fact that when you turn
19:16
your phone off, you can still
19:16
hear it. And I think that that
19:22
is going to be a enough to get
19:22
Facebook a real hold on the
19:27
market because there's just a
19:27
ton of people who don't listen
19:31
to podcasts yet who do use
19:31
Facebook. So that is the player
19:36
side of it.
19:37  Travis
I think it will be very
19:37
interesting to see how much
19:41
Facebook actually pushes this
19:41
new feature, because I remember
19:45
back to when they first
19:45
introduced live video, right?
19:48
They said hey, we're gonna knock
19:48
out Meerkat and Periscope. We're
19:51
gonna now be the new live
19:51
streaming platform of choice.
19:54
And they gave special like
19:54
attention to anytime you do
19:59
Facebook Live. They really went
19:59
out of their way to promote it
20:01
to try and encourage that
20:01
behavior. It'll be interesting
20:04
to see how much attention they
20:04
give to this new audio player
20:08
that they're implementing.
20:08
Right? Like, are they going to
20:11
start dropping it in your
20:11
notifications? Is it going to be
20:14
starting to float to the top of
20:14
your your newsfeed? Like, what
20:18
is the behavior that they want?
20:18
Because they want you to stay on
20:20
Facebook as long as possible.
20:20
And so if when you load the app,
20:24
it's like, hey, you're new. This
20:24
podcast you follow just dropped
20:28
in the episode, start listening
20:28
to it. Now, if they can get you
20:31
to listen to that podcast, while
20:31
you're scrolling. Maybe you'll
20:34
be on Facebook a little bit
20:34
longer, because you have this
20:36
other thing you're doing in the
20:36
background. But we'll just kind
20:39
of see, we'll just kind of see
20:39
what happens. Because Because I
20:42
also know that this feature and
20:42
all the other features they
20:45
announced aren't available to
20:45
everyone right album, like we
20:48
only got asked to include one of
20:48
our one of our podcasts.
20:52  Alban
Yeah, so let's go back to
20:52
that one thing feature you just
20:56
mentioned, which is one of the
20:56
ways they will promote this is
20:59
going to be every time you
20:59
release a new episode, on your
21:03
podcast, Facebook will then
21:03
create a newsfeed post about
21:09
that episode. And it's going to
21:09
be that newsfeed posts that
21:13
people can comment on, they can
21:13
tag friends, and they can have a
21:18
discussion about the episode.
21:18
Now there are one of the ways
21:21
they're promoting, or what they
21:21
call sound bites, which is very
21:25
similar to the Buzzsprout
21:25
feature called visual sound
21:28
bites. And they're pretty much
21:28
the same thing. It's, we don't
21:31
have a patent on that name or
21:31
something like that. And this is
21:35
why I'm not a lawyer anymore.
21:35
trademark. soundbites is pretty
21:41
common phrase, but that it's
21:41
like a little video of the
21:45
podcast, little promotion, they
21:45
have a tool to create that. And
21:49
they also have the ability for
21:49
podcasters to opt in, that your
21:53
audience can clip one minute
21:53
segments out of your podcast to
21:57
share. That can be pretty big,
21:57
because one people can clip
22:03
stuff out of context and kind of
22:03
make it sound much more
22:06
sensational than it was typical
22:06
kind of Facebook behavior. And
22:10
then the other pieces, they
22:10
could click interesting parts
22:14
and it could go viral, that
22:14
people are much more likely to
22:17
listen and share a one minute
22:17
clip versus a 45 minute episode.
22:22
So those are pretty big
22:22
promotion tools. As far as the
22:28
rollout is going, by my best
22:28
estimate, I did some polls on
22:33
Twitter about this. I think
22:33
we're looking at like half a
22:35
percent to 1% of podcasts that
22:35
are actually connected to
22:40
Facebook accounts. They have to
22:40
be pretty big. I don't know if
22:44
the podcast we have in there.
22:44
Has, I don't know maybe 180,000
22:49
plays. So I think
22:51  Travis
it's got I think it's
22:51
got more than that.
22:53
280,200 80,000 plays. Yep. And
22:53
that's across, I think 10
22:59
episodes. Yeah. So. So yeah,
22:59
that was that would put you
23:05
squarely in like the top 10th of
23:05
1% of podcasts. So you have to
23:12
be really, really, really big
23:12
getting a lot of traction in
23:15
order for Facebook to get you in
23:15
this beta group rollout.
23:18  Alban
Yeah, so we were invited
23:18
to submit our podcast, I went
23:21
ahead and submitted it. And so
23:21
it's now like kind of connected
23:25
to the Buzzsprout page. So that
23:25
part of the rollout is really
23:29
small, we're talking like half a
23:29
percent. And then the other half
23:33
part is the only people who can
23:33
see the podcast are in the US is
23:39
the only location. And then I
23:39
had confirmation through someone
23:44
at Facebook. It's right now only
23:44
about 1% of actual Facebook
23:52
users in the US that can
23:52
actually see podcasts. So the
23:56
number of podcasts and there's
23:56
really small, the number of
23:59
people that can see this is is
23:59
really small, the amount of
24:03
lessons that are happening right
24:03
now is thus very small. So it's
24:08
not like a huge rollout. Don't
24:08
feel like you're missing the
24:11
boat if you weren't invited, or
24:11
you don't see it yet, because
24:15
almost everybody is just on
24:15
Facebook doing the normal thing.
24:19
They're not seeing anything
24:19
interesting about podcasts. But
24:23
we can link to I've got a big
24:23
threat on this. We've got some
24:27
video showing it or maybe we can
24:27
put some B roll over this
24:30
conversation we just had about
24:30
you know so you can see what it
24:34
will look like when it is
24:34
available to you.
24:36  Travis
So let's kind of fast
24:36
forward to sometime down the
24:41
road. When everyone who has a
24:41
podcast on an RSS feed can now
24:45
unlock this Facebook feature.
24:45
How useful will it be? Tom, what
24:51
are your general thoughts like
24:51
as someone who has multiple
24:53
podcasts? sure how big how big a
24:53
role do you see how social audio
24:59
Facebook Yes. Facebook, what are
24:59
your thoughts about utilizing
25:05
this as a marketing tool for
25:05
another distribution channel for
25:09
for your shows?
25:10  Tom
I mean, I can only speak
25:10
for myself. But I think, you
25:12
know, you guys raised a good
25:12
point when you brought up that
25:14
Facebook has a huge audience.
25:14
And there's a lot of people on
25:17
Facebook that aren't listening
25:17
to podcasts or don't really
25:19
understand. You know, I think
25:19
I've reached the point recently,
25:23
where when I talk about, I have
25:23
a podcast and I do this or I
25:25
talk about when I don't have to
25:25
assume that I then need to
25:28
explain what a podcast is, which
25:28
is what I had to do four or five
25:31
years ago. And I just sort of
25:31
like, yeah, so and so has a
25:34
podcast and I podcast here. And
25:34
I figure that the person knows
25:37
what I'm talking about. That
25:37
might not be true for a lot of
25:40
the Facebook audience, which is
25:40
still like yet to discover
25:43
podcasting. So I think that that
25:43
I'm trying to be as objective as
25:46
I can here because I, any minute
25:46
I cannot spend on Facebook is a
25:50
it's a good minute. So I think
25:50
that that's a good thing for
25:54
people who do want to spend
25:54
their minutes on Facebook, they
25:57
can they can find podcasts. And
25:57
if it is implemented in a way
26:00
that's easy to actually find
26:00
what you want. The comments
26:03
section is huge YouTube comments
26:03
have ruined me in a good way for
26:06
everything else. Because every
26:06
time I consume anything, it'd be
26:09
like a TV show or a podcast or
26:09
whatever. And I have an idea.
26:12
I'm like, Oh, I can't leave my
26:12
super witty comment now. So I
26:17
think that's cool. And I do have
26:17
to say that Facebook's method of
26:21
tagging people is probably about
26:21
the best out there like the
26:24
simplest, the easiest,
26:24
ironically, the cleanest. So you
26:28
know, looking at it from that
26:28
point of view, I think that's
26:30
cool, like digging into the
26:30
social community side of
26:32
podcasting, then making them
26:32
accessible to other people. For
26:36
me, personally, maybe I'll be
26:36
eating these words, in a year,
26:39
when Facebook is the only place
26:39
you can get podcasts on or
26:42
something. But I'm not going to
26:42
make any extra steps like I'm
26:45
not going to create a new thing
26:45
to put my face by podcasts on
26:49
Facebook, if there's some way
26:49
down the line that it could just
26:52
also be like submitted to their
26:52
directory, and someone could
26:55
find if they want, like, as with
26:55
any, usually any directory,
26:59
that'd be awesome. Like, if
26:59
someone's on Facebook, and they
27:01
want to listen to my shows,
27:01
they're cool. Not gonna argue
27:03
with that. But I'm not going to
27:03
go out of my way just because,
27:07
oh, man, the only reason that I
27:07
am on Facebook at all is to make
27:11
sure relatives are alive and
27:11
still, you know, only semi
27:15
crazy. And to check out a couple
27:15
of groups that I like, like one
27:21
of which I helped run, so I kind
27:21
of have to and the other is the
27:24
E cam group, because it's like
27:24
the best group I've ever seen.
27:27
And that's it otherwise, like,
27:27
no thank you to Facebook for me.
27:31
But that's just me. And that's
27:31
just how I feel. So it's a, you
27:36
know, it's a good thing. I'm
27:36
trying to give them credit,
27:39
because in the past, they've
27:39
implemented stuff like live
27:41
streaming and direct video
27:41
uploads. And they can do those
27:44
things, they can sometimes
27:44
implement new stuff in nice
27:47
ways. Like as someone who's used
27:47
to YouTube, when I would use
27:49
Facebook, live streaming or
27:49
video stuff to experiment with
27:52
it. There were definitely some
27:52
things where I was like, Oh,
27:54
this is actually kind of nice,
27:54
or I like the way this works.
27:57
It's even better than the way
27:57
YouTube does it. So they can,
28:00
you know, there's a lot of smart
28:00
people there who can make cool
28:02
stuff and make it work in a way
28:02
that their audience can use. So
28:06
I guess Only time will tell. But
28:06
the thing, the thing with
28:11
Facebook, and this is literally
28:11
why my wife and I are moving our
28:14
group away from Facebook is
28:14
because it is the problem that
28:20
everything is there. So we we
28:20
run a YouTube mastermind where
28:23
people go work on their YouTube
28:23
channels and stuff. And it's
28:26
really hard for someone to want
28:26
to jump in and talk about like
28:30
here, I'm working on this thing
28:30
right after they have seen a
28:34
weird political rant from a
28:34
distant relative on top of a
28:37
baby shower announcement on top
28:37
of an ad for hairline
28:41
restoration. And then right
28:41
below like another political
28:44
conspiracy thing. It just like,
28:44
it throws you into a weird
28:48
headspace. And that's something
28:48
that you know, when you put your
28:52
stuff on Facebook, you got to
28:52
consider is the audience is
28:54
going to be and they're not
28:54
going to be as focused when I'm
28:57
like, Hey, I'm getting in the
28:57
car. I'm going to open up my
28:59
normal podcast app and listen to
28:59
my favorite podcast and then
29:03
enjoy it while I'm driving. It's
29:03
just gonna be like, Wow, what a
29:07
crazy shotgun blast of
29:07
everything in the world coming
29:10
at me, including now a podcast.
29:13  Alban
Yeah, I mean, Facebook's
29:13
goal is to keep you looking at
29:18
Facebook indefinitely, so they
29:18
can continue to serve up more
29:22
and more and more ads. That's
29:22
the purpose. And so they are not
29:28
focused on helping you start
29:28
your YouTube journey in Tom's
29:33
Facebook group. They're not
29:33
interested in helping you solve
29:37
your podcasting question in the
29:37
Buzzsprout group. They're not
29:40
focused on promoting or hiding
29:40
any political opinions. I think
29:46
they're guiding principle across
29:46
all Facebook is keep people
29:51
paying attention to Facebook, no
29:51
matter what it takes. And if
29:55
you're trying to build a podcast
29:55
or a community Anything on
30:01
Facebook's land, you know on
30:01
their platform? Well, you're,
30:06
they're happy that you're there.
30:06
They're thrilled because it's
30:09
another thing to put people's
30:09
eyeballs on. But the minute that
30:13
you're not doing as good of a
30:13
job at keeping people on
30:16
Facebook, as some other content
30:16
is, you don't get any. Now they
30:23
don't have any loyalty to you.
30:23
And this is what so many
30:26
businesses found that for years,
30:26
Facebook was like, Hey, get your
30:31
small business on Facebook, and
30:31
let people know and put up your
30:36
community stuff and let people
30:36
know your business hours and all
30:39
this stuff. And so there's a
30:39
time where every business you
30:43
went into it was like, like some
30:43
Facebook ad, you sometimes
30:46
actually did. Because you're
30:46
like, Oh, I do like this
30:48
business. I want to kind of keep
30:48
up with them. Well, then all the
30:51
small businesses realized, they
30:51
went from being able to reach
30:55
everyone who liked the page, to
30:55
then getting like, point 6% of
31:01
their followers actually ever
31:01
saw their posts, almost
31:05
everybody never sees them. And
31:05
Facebook said, Well, yeah,
31:10
you're welcome to show your
31:10
stuff to everyone has like the
31:13
page, you just have to pay us to
31:13
boost it. And even then, not
31:17
everyone will see it. And, you
31:17
know, that's not the, you know,
31:21
the beauty of podcasting is this
31:21
open ecosystem allows podcasters
31:26
to have a direct connection to
31:26
their audience. You're not, it's
31:31
not mediated through YouTube.
31:31
It's not Apple doesn't control
31:34
it. It's not controlled by any
31:34
individual company. Because it's
31:40
literally like the audio files
31:40
will go up on Buzzsprout, or any
31:43
number of hosts, and then
31:43
immediately connect directly to
31:47
your listeners phone. And that
31:47
ability for you to have this
31:52
direct connection is really
31:52
powerful. The minute that
31:56
Facebook lures us in with the
31:56
promise of more and more
32:00
features and more exposure. If
32:00
we go all in or Spotify or
32:05
anyone says, hey, you're gonna
32:05
get all this stuff, if you just
32:07
commit. Well, once you commit,
32:07
then eventually, when it's no
32:11
longer valuable to them, they
32:11
kind of like, yeah, they boosted
32:14
couple posts to get to see your
32:14
podcast again.
32:18  Travis
Yeah, so thinking,
32:18
practically. I'm just kind of
32:23
like, gaming out like, What? How
32:23
would you use Facebook? Like,
32:27
what would you need to actually
32:27
do to take full advantage of
32:30
this feature? I think that the
32:30
key here is recognizing it's
32:34
going to be linked to a page.
32:34
And so any marketing promotion
32:38
you put into getting your
32:38
podcasts out there on Facebook,
32:43
you basically have to promote a
32:43
Facebook page, right, because if
32:47
people aren't connected to your
32:47
Facebook page, they're not going
32:49
to get the little buzz on their
32:49
phone saying they should listen
32:51
to your podcast on your page.
32:51
And so you'll need to have a
32:55
strategy for growing a audience
32:55
on Facebook through your page,
33:00
which has Alban just talked
33:00
about is really problematic,
33:03
like Facebook pages in recent
33:03
history are one of the worst
33:06
ways to connect to people. And
33:06
then the other one would be
33:09
searched people searching things
33:09
in Facebook. And then instead of
33:12
finding a group related to the
33:12
thing they searched for, they
33:15
might happen onto your podcast.
33:15
And so I think, at the end of
33:19
the day, we'll see if this is
33:19
something Facebook pushes to
33:23
people, or if they're going to
33:23
encourage you to simply spend
33:26
more time investing your
33:26
resources and promoting
33:29
Facebook. And then as a nice
33:29
little token of their
33:32
appreciation, they'll show it to
33:32
three people, we're not really
33:35
sure how the numbers are gonna
33:35
work out. But just be aware that
33:39
that will probably need to be
33:39
the strategy. If you want
33:42
Facebook to be a viable place
33:42
for people to not just discover
33:44
your podcast, but for you to
33:44
grow your audience.
33:47  Alban
So the thing you could do
33:47
if you're still waiting on an
33:50
invite and you want to prep is
33:50
make sure you actually have a
33:53
Facebook page for your podcast.
33:53
One example I saw was when
33:58
Facebook launched one of their
33:58
big podcasters they're promoting
34:01
as Joe Budden. And it is he has
34:01
a personal page for him with
34:07
millions of followers but he
34:07
also has the Joe Budden podcast,
34:10
they had, like 6000 followers,
34:10
it's connected to the podcast
34:14
page. So it's a much smaller
34:14
page. But that's how they want
34:19
them connected. So even if you
34:19
have a personal page, even if
34:23
you just if you have a really
34:23
nice profile with friends from
34:28
college, go ahead put together
34:28
one for the podcast and maybe
34:33
you know start promoting that a
34:33
little bit. Eventually that's
34:36
where the podcast will live.
34:41  Travis
So Tom, since your last
34:41
on the show, you have made a
34:45
pretty significant shifts in not
34:45
only your career but just in how
34:51
you're spending your time
34:51
nowadays. So kind of fill us in.
34:54  Tom
I bought a Sony camera
34:57  Travis
Are you on the a seven
34:57
three train now is it where
35:00
you're at? Yeah,
35:00  Tom
that's, that is the only
35:00
thing that has changed. Just
35:03
kidding. But I mean, that is
35:03
true. I did buy a Sony camera.
35:07
That's a big shift. But yeah,
35:07
last time I was here I was, you
35:10
know, literally we did the show
35:10
before I had to go teach classes
35:14
that day, because we were
35:14
teaching online. I've been a
35:15
high school teacher for 11
35:15
years. And we're teaching
35:18
remotely for that the past
35:18
school year. And as of March 19,
35:23
I am no longer a high school
35:23
teacher, I'm just, I'm just a
35:27
YouTuber, living the dream, the
35:27
millennial dream of being a full
35:32
time content creator. And it is
35:32
amazing. It happened a lot
35:37
sooner than I expected. Not
35:37
necessarily because of like,
35:41
anything crazy on my end, in
35:41
terms of like channel growth, or
35:44
like, wow, I would just sweep
35:44
slimming and slimming swimming
35:47
in money. Suddenly, it was just
35:47
kind of, like, politically,
35:53
really. And due to like COVID
35:53
concerns, I had thought that the
35:58
end of my teaching time was
35:58
approaching because I was
36:00
getting kind of burnt out, ready
36:00
to try something new. YouTube
36:03
was hitting a point where it was
36:03
starting to be like, Hey, this
36:07
is actually an option compared
36:07
to full time living. And then it
36:12
just sort of like, well, instead
36:12
of waiting three months, and
36:15
exposing myself to potential
36:15
disease, I'll just leave now and
36:19
make videos instead of going to
36:19
the hospital. And that's what I
36:22
did. And it has been terrific.
36:22
And podcasts.
36:25  Travis
And podcasts. Yeah.
36:25
Still podcasting. Oh, yeah. But
36:29
but very much doing YouTube as
36:29
well. So yeah, I think would
36:33
love to what I think everyone
36:33
listening to this episode would
36:35
love to hear is what that
36:35
process looks like. Because I
36:39
know for a lot of creators, when
36:39
they first start creating
36:41
content, especially if it's the
36:41
first time they've done some
36:44
kind of creative work like that.
36:44
There's this thought of like,
36:47
well, maybe one day, this can be
36:47
how I make a living, this can be
36:52
my full time focus. And so kind
36:52
of walk us through, like what
36:56
that process was look like, or
36:56
would look like, from your
36:59
perspective, as you're trying to
36:59
think through. Okay, when is the
37:02
right time to make the shift?
37:02
financially? What does that look
37:06
like? Because I know a lot of
37:06
people think, Oh, well, maybe
37:08
YouTube is like the silver
37:08
bullet. And I can get that
37:11
AdSense money. And that'll,
37:11
that'll make up the difference.
37:15
But, but I noticed more than
37:15
often not the case for
37:18
YouTubers. So yeah, just kind of
37:18
like walk us through your
37:21
decision or Yeah, to kind of
37:21
like plan into this transition,
37:25
that'd be great. I
37:25  Tom
have so many thoughts and
37:25
so much to say about this. So
37:28
just stop me or jump in at any
37:28
time, I am going to do a
37:31
shameless plug for my podcast,
37:31
not to just plug it but because
37:36
my wife Heather and I kind of
37:36
documented this whole journey,
37:39
we like recorded weekly episodes
37:39
of like, when I was thinking
37:42
about giving my notice when I
37:42
gave my notice that like the
37:45
whole process up until whatever.
37:45
So if you go to the enthusiasm
37:50
project, you can go to
37:50
enthusiasm,
37:51
project.buzzsprout.com, or
37:51
wherever you get your podcast,
37:54
just look it up. And if you kind
37:54
of scroll back through some of
37:59
the more recent episodes,
37:59
there's really probably like
38:01
seven or eight episodes that
38:01
break it down. And prior to that
38:04
I did episodes where I broke
38:04
down all the different revenue
38:06
streams that come in, I called
38:06
it through YouTube, but it's
38:10
really through like everything,
38:10
the expenses it takes to run the
38:13
channel and how we also
38:13
incorporated like our LLC to be
38:16
able to take money legally, and
38:16
pay our taxes like good citizens
38:21
and all that stuff. So that's a
38:21
lot more than I can cover here.
38:24
But if you really want to know
38:24
that it's all there.
38:27  Alban
Alright, where are you
38:27
releasing these podcast episodes
38:30
like live? Like, could there
38:30
have been someone at work? And
38:34
you're like, I think it'll give
38:34
my notice on Thursday. They're
38:36
like, Oh, well, no, yeah,
38:39  Tom
we called it the secret
38:39
series, because we, we recorded
38:42
some of them early. And I wanted
38:42
to make sure nothing went out
38:46
until, I mean, obviously, like I
38:46
told my bosses pretty early on.
38:50
So they knew that but I didn't
38:50
want anyone to actually know
38:53
until I told my students because
38:53
that's a weird, I didn't want
38:56
them to find out from someone
38:56
else. So it just didn't feel
38:58
right to me. So we had recorded
38:58
these episodes. And then which
39:04
was nice because the first time
39:04
ever actually had like pre
39:06
recorded podcast episodes like
39:06
scheduled and ready to go. And
39:09
then once my students found out
39:09
those started coming out and
39:12
then eventually it kind of like
39:12
caught up with real time. Once I
39:16
had like left and everything so
39:16
yeah, I was trying not to be
39:18
dumb and like I think I'm gonna
39:18
quit my job before telling
39:21
anyone.
39:23  Alban
But the podcast episode
39:29  Tom
by podcast was too popular.
39:29
But the big thing like honestly
39:35
was I started my YouTube Channel
39:35
Four years ago yesterday of the
39:39
day we're recording this so June
39:39
29 2017 is when I started the
39:43
channel and it did not make any
39:43
money for the first year or two
39:47
years and then started making a
39:47
little bit of money through like
39:51
Amazon affiliates and stuff and
39:51
then slowly started within the
39:55
past year is when it started
39:55
meeting and exceeding what I was
39:59
earning through my full time
39:59
job, which definitely took my
40:02
attention. Because that was a
40:02
lot more of a fun way to earn
40:07
money than a full time, you
40:07
know, job, or full time regular
40:11
job. However, it wasn't until
40:11
probably a year ago that I
40:16
actually admitted to myself,
40:16
yes, I would want to do this
40:18
full time, I was like, kind of
40:18
embarrassed to do that. And it
40:21
felt weird. I was like, I'm a 35
40:21
year old, I want to be a
40:24
YouTuber, like, I don't want to
40:24
say that out loud. Like, I have
40:27
a degree and stuff, like a
40:27
professional career. But, like
40:32
admitting that to myself was
40:32
actually a very big deal. And
40:35
being open about that. So that's
40:35
what I would say, if someone's
40:37
thinking about doing the leap,
40:37
it feels like you're climbing
40:40
this mountain, and you don't
40:40
know where to begin. But it is
40:42
literally just one step at a
40:42
time. And the first step is to
40:46
go like, yeah, that is actually
40:46
something I would probably want
40:49
to do. And that's a huge, like,
40:49
hurdle to overcome, mentally.
40:53
And what you wouldn't want to do
40:53
is go like, I'm gonna quit,
40:55
leave your job, and then like,
40:55
click Start account or whatever,
40:59
because, you know, you got to
40:59
have it going first. And that
41:03
was really hard, because it got
41:03
to a point where like, even
41:06
though YouTube had started as a
41:06
fun thing, and podcast started
41:09
as a fun thing, that was really
41:09
taking up the time of a full
41:12
time job, in addition to a full
41:12
time job. And clearly, that's
41:16
not sustainable. But I knew that
41:16
I knew I wasn't going to do both
41:19
forever. And I knew the thing I
41:19
wasn't going to let go of was my
41:22
own creative endeavor. So it was
41:22
gonna have to be the traditional
41:25
job. And it just didn't know the
41:25
when of that. But you know, it
41:28
took years to build that. And
41:28
that's something that's, that's
41:32
important. I didn't realize
41:32
that's what I was building when
41:34
I was building it, definitely, I
41:34
wouldn't recommend someone, like
41:36
start YouTube to make money,
41:36
start a podcast and make money.
41:40
It can just happen if you, you
41:40
know, if more than anything, if
41:44
you're passionate about what
41:44
you're creating, and you're you,
41:47
you're in it for the long haul,
41:47
eventually, like an audience
41:50
will probably form around it.
41:50
And that could lead to other
41:53
opportunities to earn money and
41:53
to grow. So like that whole
41:57
thing of spending four years,
41:57
essentially, working two jobs is
42:01
what made it possible where when
42:01
I wanted to actually leave my
42:06
current job, I could do so
42:06
without it being a totally
42:09
risky, insane move. And that's
42:09
kind of the shortest way I could
42:12
explain.
42:16  Alban
It's definitely tempting
42:16
to think I would be successful.
42:19
If only I didn't have money as
42:19
an object. I could then be
42:25
building a YouTube channel and
42:25
do incredibly well. If I was,
42:29
you know, lucky enough to get it
42:29
with a lotto or, you know,
42:34
inherit a bunch of money or
42:34
something. Yeah, you did a great
42:38
job of actually doing all the
42:38
work and putting yourself in
42:41
that position. Well, in advance
42:41
of when you actually realized,
42:44
yeah, I do want to be doing this
42:44
full time.
42:47  Tom
Yeah. And it's the thing
42:47
that I learned though, is after
42:50
I gave my notice, I was so
42:50
shocked. Everybody was so happy
42:53
and supportive. And I was like,
42:53
do you just want me to leave or
42:56
whatever. But, you know,
42:56
everyone knew that I had been
42:58
doing YouTube and stuff and was
42:58
aware of that. And they were
43:01
super excited about it. And even
43:01
my students who were sad, were
43:04
like, Oh, it's like you're doing
43:04
the thing that you're, you're
43:07
teaching us how to make digital
43:07
media. Now you get to do that as
43:10
like your actual job job. So it
43:10
was like it was actually a very
43:13
positive thing overall. But what
43:13
really shocked me was once once
43:19
I was leaving, and it had been
43:19
announced that I was leaving
43:22
every adult that I talked to,
43:22
from higher level administrative
43:27
people to you know, brand new
43:27
people. Literally every one of
43:31
them said, I wish I had a way
43:31
out to I wish I had an option.
43:34
And I was kind of shocked. I
43:34
know, it's been a it was a
43:36
really tough school year. So a
43:36
lot of educators and people in
43:39
education were frazzled and
43:39
ready to like, explore other
43:43
options. But every single
43:43
person, I talked to people who I
43:47
thought, you know, lived for
43:47
their jobs were like, I wish I
43:50
had an option too. And it taught
43:50
me the importance of just having
43:54
a side thing, because you never
43:54
know at least keeps you sane, it
43:58
gives you something to focus on.
43:58
But I don't know what I would
44:01
have done. finding myself in the
44:01
position I was in where I really
44:05
wanted something else, but not
44:05
having an option and just having
44:08
to like, I don't know what I
44:08
would have done. And so what I
44:12
learned was how important it is
44:12
to have something that you're
44:14
building that you're in charge
44:14
of where it's not, you know, I
44:17
know I'm at the mercy of YouTube
44:17
or, you know, whatever
44:21
multibillion dollar corporation
44:21
wants to do things, you're never
44:24
totally in control. But where
44:24
you're at least not just one
44:28
quick administrative decision
44:28
away from losing what you have
44:32
or having everything change or
44:32
get pulled out on you like
44:34
having something that you're, as
44:34
in charge of is possible and
44:37
growing that because you never
44:37
know it could end up being a
44:40
lifeboat when you least expect
44:40
it. And that was I was so
44:44
shocked at how many people had
44:44
nothing. And then we're just
44:47
sad.
44:48  Alban
The first time I heard
44:48
someone really talk about this
44:50
was Ali Abdul, I think he does,
44:50
he has a pot. He has a YouTube
44:56
channel but he also had a
44:56
podcast and he said you know
44:59
whenever people would Come down
44:59
and say like, Oh, you've got a
45:01
YouTube channel, you got this, I
45:01
wish I could do something
45:04
different. And he's like, start
45:04
a blog. And people be like,
45:07
Yeah, but Wish I could do this.
45:07
And then this and he goes, you
45:11
should just start a blog. And I
45:11
love that advice. Because it's
45:17
very easy to feel like, if only
45:17
things were drastically
45:21
different, then I would be
45:21
empowered to go do the thing
45:24
that I want. The first step is
45:24
like saying, Hey, I'm going to
45:30
plant a flag, whether it be a
45:30
blog, or a Twitter account, or a
45:34
YouTube page, and I'm going to
45:34
start creating content, or, you
45:41
know, blog posts or videos about
45:41
what I want to be doing. And the
45:46
worst thing that happens is that
45:46
you build a little bit of a
45:49
following. And people are like,
45:49
oh, when you're applying to a
45:54
different normal job, they're
45:54
not saying, Oh, this is just a
45:57
normal person. They're like, Oh,
45:57
he actually has a blog. And it's
45:59
got some really good posts on
45:59
there. Oh, you know, he actually
46:03
must really care about this
46:03
podcasting, because he talks
46:05
about it all the time on his
46:05
social media accounts, or
46:09
others, actually, I mean, I know
46:09
the way we've met you was
46:13
because your YouTube channel
46:13
Kevin got recommended a video
46:17
and he was like, Albin, we need
46:17
to hire this guy, Tom buck. He's
46:20
amazing. He's making the best
46:20
videos. She's like, I don't know
46:25
how work every he's in
46:25
California. But he's awesome.
46:30  Tom
Yeah, it's, it's I mean,
46:30
your YouTube channel, your
46:33
website, your podcast, those are
46:33
like really good resume pieces,
46:37
so much more so than just a word
46:37
document or, you know, whatever
46:41
you might be used to. And it's,
46:41
it's, it's huge to have that
46:44
stuff. And it really like,
46:44
that's what I've been, I had
46:46
been telling my students forever
46:46
was, you know, it's not that you
46:50
need to be a YouTuber or
46:50
something. But if you're
46:52
applying to college, and you've
46:52
got good grades and good
46:55
transcripts, and this other
46:55
person has good grades and good
46:57
transcripts, but you also show
46:57
that you have been like, I don't
47:00
know, creating your own
47:00
animations for two years and
47:03
doing all this stuff here. That
47:03
could be the thing that gives
47:06
you the edge to get in over the
47:06
other person. It's, it's a
47:08
really big deal. And it's, you
47:08
know, any you don't, you don't
47:13
need a huge following to have an
47:13
impact or to share your work or
47:17
to create great work like you
47:17
can get started. And it does
47:21
take time to build. So the
47:21
sooner you start, it's like that
47:23
thing of you know, when's the
47:23
best time to start to plant a
47:25
tree? The first answer is 20
47:25
years ago, the next answer is
47:28
today, like you, the sooner you
47:28
get started, this you can get
47:31
better The sooner things can
47:31
grow. And, you know, in terms of
47:36
like I mentioned, those podcast
47:36
episodes I did that outlined
47:39
everything. So, you know, you
47:39
mentioned AdSense and ad
47:42
revenue, like the thing going
47:42
from a steady, salaried
47:47
paycheck, where I mean to the
47:47
penny, my paycheck was the same
47:50
every month, I would get a small
47:50
raise every year for seniority,
47:54
and that's it. But otherwise, I
47:54
knew, no matter how good I did,
47:57
or how bad I did, or if I, you
47:57
know, called in sick or
48:00
whatever, the same exact
48:00
paycheck every month, which
48:03
seems like a really good thing,
48:03
because I know it's gonna never
48:06
be below this, but it also will
48:06
never be above a certain number
48:10
either. And, if I had stayed one
48:10
more year, I would have maxed
48:15
out where I'm at, unless I would
48:15
have gotten like a PhD or
48:17
something which I was not about
48:17
to do. So it would literally be
48:20
like, this is the most income
48:20
you can ever make in this very
48:24
exhausting, stressful profession
48:24
that you've been in. Or you
48:30
could go over here where there
48:30
is no bottom, and you could go
48:33
through the floor and lose
48:33
everything, or there is also no
48:36
ceiling. So it's kind of up to
48:36
you. So I was just looking right
48:39
now. And I call it the YouTube
48:39
channel, but it's everything,
48:42
I'm up to 15 different, like
48:42
sources of income. So it's, it's
48:46
not relying on any one of them.
48:46
And I would like to increase
48:49
that more, because some of them
48:49
are really small, some of them
48:51
are a little bigger, and month
48:51
to month, you know, the one that
48:54
was the big thing last month
48:54
could do terribly this month,
48:58
and vice versa, and all this
48:58
stuff. So the more that you
49:01
have, the more you know, it all
49:01
kind of evens out and you're not
49:05
at the mercy of just one thing.
49:05
And that's what helps it be to
49:09
be more sustainable, because you
49:09
also got to think like, you
49:12
know, if you're leaving a job,
49:12
like I had, you know, it's
49:14
leaving health insurance, it's
49:14
leaving retirement that's
49:16
leaving all that stuff. So how
49:16
are, you know, how are you gonna
49:20
afford that. So it's not
49:20
necessarily even just, I'm
49:22
making the same amount that I'm
49:22
making at my job. Because if
49:25
your job is covering those
49:25
benefits than the money you're
49:29
making, you kind of need to be
49:29
making enough to cover that.
49:32
Plus, in my case, I kind of
49:32
thought like, well, because this
49:36
is so unstable, I also want to
49:36
be able to then save more
49:39
aggressively, which means that
49:39
would need to be even beyond
49:42
that, so that I can pay bills,
49:42
cover the extra costs, and
49:46
continue to save because, you
49:46
know, I definitely don't have
49:50
the security that I had for the
49:50
past decade or more. And that's,
49:54
you know, that can be super
49:54
scary.
49:55  Alban
So if there's, if there's
49:55
anybody who's watching this
49:59
right now And whatever job
49:59
they're in, they're thinking,
50:03
yeah, that's what I want to be
50:03
doing. What? What piece of
50:08
advice would you give them?
50:09  Tom
Yeah, I am the last person
50:09
I would ever have expected
50:12
because I'm the most cautious
50:12
the most like conservative when
50:15
it comes to these things, and
50:15
the most like susceptible to a
50:18
sunk cost fallacy of but I have
50:18
the degree I have the years of
50:21
experience, I have the tenure.
50:21
So I would never go like, why
50:26
would I leave all that? Please
50:26
remember, like, first of all,
50:31
don't put yourself in a dumb
50:31
dangerous position Don't you
50:34
know risk not being able to
50:34
support yourself or your family
50:37
or anything. So there's, there's
50:37
the very practical side of it,
50:39
you need to take a practical
50:39
look at it for whatever your
50:42
situation is. Some people can
50:42
live on reduce things or move to
50:46
a cheaper place to make those
50:46
things happen. And other people
50:49
you need to spend more time so
50:49
that we're just kind of my thing
50:52
of like, I have become
50:52
accustomed to being able to, you
50:56
know, live in a house and not
50:56
have to live in a small
50:59
apartment, that kind of thing.
50:59
have food that I like to eat and
51:02
not only have to eat ramen, even
51:02
though I love ramen? So cool.
51:07
What do I need to do to then be
51:07
able to relatively maintain my
51:10
lifestyle? Fortunately, my
51:10
lifestyle was that of a public
51:13
school teacher. So it's like, I
51:13
wasn't coming home with like
51:17
bags with dollar signs on them.
51:17
So it wasn't that hard to like,
51:21
gee, can you match the salary of
51:21
a public educator? Yeah. But be
51:27
practical about how you're going
51:27
to do those things. And then
51:30
literally just take it, you
51:30
know, one step at a time.
51:33
Because if you look at it, as I
51:33
have my career, and I'm over
51:36
here, and I want to be over
51:36
here, it's gonna feel
51:39
insurmountable. But if it's just
51:39
sort of one little thing, maybe
51:41
I'll work a little extra harder
51:41
on, you know, if you're doing a
51:44
podcast, for example, maybe I'll
51:44
like really make sure that I
51:48
don't miss a weekly episode. Or
51:48
maybe instead of, you know,
51:52
instead of just doing random
51:52
things, maybe I'm going to
51:54
actually try to structure my
51:54
show a little better and make it
51:58
a little more interesting, like,
51:58
be a little more listener focus.
52:01
So that way, it's a better show
52:01
that more people would listen
52:04
to, you know, maybe you would
52:04
explore something like a Patreon
52:09
or an affiliate program to see
52:09
if you could generate some
52:11
revenue from whatever you're
52:11
doing, and just sort of put
52:14
those little things into place.
52:14
See how they're see how it grows
52:17
organically over time, which is
52:17
gonna be different for
52:19
everybody. And then just, you
52:19
know, it's one step at a time
52:25
and don't feel like you have to
52:25
make the entire leap all at
52:28
once. Because it's, you will get
52:28
to a point where, you know, if
52:30
you're trying to straddle two
52:30
worlds, at one point, you have
52:33
to let go of the other one to
52:33
step fully under the new one.
52:36
But you can you can have one
52:36
foot in both for a while and
52:40
don't feel like you, you can't
52:40
do that. And that's totally an
52:43
okay thing to do.
52:44  Alban
Have you seen this show
52:44
floor is lava, on Netflix. It's
52:50
like the kids game where you
52:50
jump couch to couch. And yeah,
52:54
like the ground was lava? Well,
52:54
this is an actual game show like
52:57
that. Where there's bubbling
52:57
water, or something that looks
53:02
like lava. It's real lava. The
53:02
people that do well, are the
53:06
people that they know, they have
53:06
to jump. And if they can they
53:10
get one foot over there. And
53:10
they know if it's moving, and
53:14
they understand. And then they
53:14
make the second move, versus the
53:17
people who just go yellow.
53:17
jumping to the next thing, and
53:23
they immediately bounce off into
53:23
the lava. Sounds like yeah, I've
53:27  Tom
had I mean, sometimes you
53:27
gotta just push yourself and go
53:30
for it. But a lot of times,
53:30
yeah, you got to be you know,
53:32
we'd also got to point like, our
53:32
cost of living is super low. I
53:37
am fortunate enough to have a
53:37
house, but we also live in an
53:39
area where like, our mortgage is
53:39
less than most apartment rents,
53:42
especially in California. We
53:42
made sure to pay off our cars,
53:46
like there's there's certain
53:46
things where it's like, Okay,
53:49
can you tighten up these areas,
53:49
which is, I guess, keeping your
53:53
foot in that world. And then
53:53
that way, when you make the
53:56
leap, it's not as it's not as
53:56
terrifying as, or insane, it
54:00
will be terrifying. But I just I
54:00
feel so bad for how much of my
54:04
life I spent wishing it would be
54:04
over so I could get to the stuff
54:09
I actually wanted to do. And
54:09
that feels like almost I'm not
54:14
even like a religious person.
54:14
But that feels like sack
54:16
religious or wrong to do that.
54:16
And yeah, so whatever it was,
54:21
for me it was this. But whatever
54:21
it is that can make you instead
54:24
of waking up and going like, oh
54:24
god, what do I have to do today
54:27
to get back to bed of the day,
54:27
and feel more like Oh, I can't
54:31
wait, I can do this, this, this,
54:31
this and this and you get to be
54:34
in charge of your time. It's,
54:34
you know, there's anything you
54:37
can do to make that happen. It
54:37
is a worthwhile effort to put
54:40
in. Well, Tom,
54:41  Travis
thank you so much for
54:41
joining us on this episode of
54:43
Buzzcast sharing your journey
54:43
with us. We'll definitely leave
54:46
links to the enthusiasm project
54:46
and to Tom's YouTube channel. Go
54:50
and check it out. He does a
54:50
great job reviewing microphones
54:52
and podcasting equipment and all
54:52
that kind of stuff. So if you're
54:54
a gearhead, you love digging
54:54
into that. There's a lot of
54:57
great content there. And we
54:57
haven't done this in a while.
55:00
But if you like the show, you
55:00
enjoy listening to these
55:03
episodes, whenever they come
55:03
out. Go ahead and leave us a
55:06
review on Apple podcasts or over
55:06
on pod chaser. There's links in
55:08
the show notes where you can go
55:08
and do that. It does. It is
55:11
really encouraging to read nice
55:11
reviews from you guys to keep us
55:15
going to let us know. Yeah, we
55:15
should keep talking about
55:17
podcasting related things. So if
55:17
you haven't done that recently,
55:19
go and do that we would be super
55:19
appreciative of it. That wraps
55:23
it up for this episode. We'll
55:23
catch you the next one. Keep
55:26
podcasting