Buzzcast

Buzzcast is a roundtable discussion about podcasting from the people at Buzzsprout. We'll cover current events and news, podcast strategy, tools we are using, and dip into the Customer Support mailbag to test our podcasting knowledge. If you want to stay up-to-date on what's working in podcasting, Buzzcast is the show for you.

https://buzzcast.buzzsprout.com/

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episode 56: Is Audacity spying on you?? + The truth about Podcast SEO [transcript]


In this episode, Kevin returns to talk about the new Buzzcast YouTube channel, an update on the new Apple Podcasts app rollout, and what really matters when it comes to SEO in podcast listening apps.

Watch the video of this episode on our new Buzzcast YouTube channel!

Links from this episode:

  • Clarification on Audacity's new privacy policy
  • Watch our review of the top podcast editing software options
  • Read Mark's write up on SEO in podcast apps


Review Buzzcast in Podchaser or Apple Podcasts to let us know what you think of the show.

Buzzsprout's Dynamic Content tool now allows you to save multiple clips in your Dynamic Content Library and track how many downloads each clip receives. Learn more on our New Features page.


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 2021-07-16  50m
 
 
00:00  Kevin
There were some panicky
00:00
conversations happening in
00:02
Facebook Like I'm gonna delete
00:02
it, I need to find us.
00:06  Alban
pause for a second,
00:06
you're stressed out that an app
00:09
is paying attention to you is
00:09
collecting data about you. So
00:13
you ran to Facebook to let
00:13
everyone know how upset you
00:18
were. This app was steady crash
00:18
reports. The entire time Mark
00:23
Zuckerberg is like pulling every
00:23
piece of data he can out of you.
00:33  Travis
Today on Buzzcast more
00:33
news about Apple podcasts
00:36
updates, bugs and are they
00:36
actually bugs? And then
00:40
audacity? Is it spying on you?
00:40
Should you stop using it? Is
00:44
that a reason for you to stop
00:44
using it? If it is spying on
00:47
you? But first one you got to
00:47
get out of the way? Who is
00:50
filling in for Kevin this week?
00:50
It is Kevin. Kevin is back.
00:53
Welcome back to the show. Kevin
00:53
hope you enjoy your nice
00:56
property
00:56  Alban
sure that joke got like
00:56
cut from the outline and he just
01:00
right.
01:01  Kevin
That's what happens in
01:01
our in our pre show. Travis is
01:03
like I'm this is how I'm gonna
01:03
open the show. And we're like,
01:05
no, that's not great.
01:06  Alban
That's not the get we
01:06
gotta get a different.
01:11  Kevin
Well, you're right,
01:11
Travis, it worked perfectly
01:13
landed.
01:15  Travis
Travis goes rogue takes
01:15
things in his own direction.
01:18
Well, it is good to have you
01:18
back. Kevin, we're gonna have to
01:20
make sure to get you to talk
01:20
more than normal this episode.
01:24
Because people people missed
01:24
you.
01:25  Kevin
I saw the the takeover
01:25
episode, they talked about how I
01:28
don't talk all that much.
01:30  Unknown
And you know,
01:31  Kevin
I mean, that's true in,
01:31
in life in general. I'm not a
01:35
big talker. But I'm a really
01:35
good listener. And I hope when i
01:39
when i do have something to say
01:39
I put it out there. I just I'm
01:41
more of an internal processor,
01:41
the next ternal which doesn't
01:44
make for a great podcaster. But
01:44
I'm learning. I'm trying and
01:47
hopefully we'll all get better
01:47
together.
01:48  Travis
What a wonderful way to
01:48
kick off Episode 56 of Buzzcast.
01:53
Which is also cool. We've been
01:53
doing this for longer than two
01:55
years. Now.
01:55  Alban
I remember when we
01:55
started thinking that this is
01:58
probably going to last like
01:58
three episodes.
02:00  Kevin
Now I never I never
02:00
thought that I never thought
02:03
that.
02:03  Alban
Yeah, I just was thinking
02:03
like, Man it every two weeks,
02:07
we're going to keep up with it.
02:07
And we have. So that was good. I
02:11
just remember thinking like that
02:11
is a lot. And we started getting
02:14
a little listener base. And it's
02:14
taken a definitely a long time
02:17
to grow. But now we've got
02:17
people listening. And I think
02:21
this is locked in. Not
02:23  Travis
just listening,
02:23
watching. So something that we
02:26
haven't announced yet on the
02:26
show is that we now have a
02:29
Buzzcast YouTube channel. So if
02:29
you just listen to the audio
02:33
episodes, you shouldn't have
02:33
noticed any difference over the
02:37
last several months, but we
02:37
actually started taking the
02:39
recordings of the video of us
02:39
doing this podcast and putting
02:42
them up on our Buzzsprout
02:42
youtube channel. But now we've
02:45
spun it off. And now Buzzcast
02:45
has its own YouTube channel. And
02:49
that's that benefits us in a few
02:49
ways. Number one, it's when it
02:53
comes to YouTube. Google likes
02:53
putting you in a box and saying
02:57
this is the kind of content that
02:57
you serve up. And so having one
03:01
hour videos, next to five minute
03:01
videos, was causing some some
03:08
unnecessary issues. But then in
03:08
addition to that, by having
03:12
Buzzcast as its own YouTube
03:12
channel, we can now take
03:15
advantage of the comments and
03:15
like building community through
03:19
you know, those of you that
03:19
subscribe, they're like
03:21
subscriber only content we can
03:21
create. And so it's just going
03:25
to allow us to serve you guys
03:25
better to get questions,
03:29
feedback, interact with you. And
03:29
so that's something we're
03:32
excited about. And so, if you
03:32
have been watching this on
03:36
YouTube, welcome to the YouTube
03:36
channel. Glad to have you here.
03:40
And if you just listen, consider
03:40
checking out the YouTube
03:43
channel. Then you can see
03:43
Alvin's awesome shirt that you
03:46
know he's he's wearing from when
03:46
he went golfing yesterday and
03:49
his buddy splashed him with mud.
03:49
Please that was the story that
03:51
Kevin came up with before we
03:51
started recording. And so so you
03:55
can find that on the new
03:55
Buzzcast YouTube channel.
03:57  Kevin
Now Alvin when you are
03:57
not Alan Travis, when you say it
04:00
was causing some issues for
04:00
YouTube, unpack that a bit for
04:03
me like does that mean that
04:03
YouTube was having trouble
04:06
figuring out like when to
04:06
recommend us or who to promote
04:10
our content to because it didn't
04:10
understand what type of channel
04:12
we were.
04:13  Travis
So when we first started
04:13
looking at doing video
04:16
podcasting, one of the things
04:16
that we noticed about other
04:20
video podcasts on YouTube is
04:20
typically they would create
04:22
separate channels for those
04:22
podcasts. And so you'd have like
04:26
mkbhd does tech reviews. They're
04:26
like 15 to 20 minutes, deep
04:30
dives of mobile phones and stuff
04:30
like that. So then when he
04:35
created a podcast, he didn't put
04:35
those podcast recordings on his
04:39
main channel. He created a
04:39
separate channel for that
04:42
podcast because they're like
04:42
4045 minute content. And then he
04:46
also created a clips channel
04:46
like a third YouTube channel for
04:50
clips of the full podcast
04:50
episodes. And that was something
04:55
that we saw across virtually
04:55
across the board for people That
05:00
we're familiar with using
05:00
YouTube and using YouTube to
05:03
grow their audience that when
05:03
they started video podcast, they
05:06
would create dedicated channels
05:06
to it. When we started
05:09
experimenting with Buzzcast, as
05:09
a video podcast, we weren't
05:13
really sure if it was something
05:13
we're gonna stick with for a
05:16
long time. And so it's like,
05:16
well, let's test it by just
05:21
putting it on our existing
05:21
YouTube channel that has 60 plus
05:24
1000 subscribers. And then we
05:24
noticed that once we started
05:28
doing that, and then also
05:28
started putting albums, bonus
05:31
interviews, on the YouTube
05:31
channel, that the organic reach
05:35
dropped, that the number of
05:35
people YouTube was recommending
05:38
our videos to dropped, the newer
05:38
videos, the older videos, were
05:42
still getting picked up in
05:42
search results and things like
05:44
that. So those are still
05:44
performing. But recent videos,
05:48
for whatever reason, weren't
05:48
reaching as many people. And so
05:52
we suspect that there's a
05:52
linkage there. I mean, we're
05:55
kind of trying to read the tea
05:55
leaves and see like, what is
05:58
Google and YouTube want us to
05:58
do? But the prevailing theory,
06:02
and the advice that we see a lot
06:02
in the YouTube community is
06:06
YouTube, like saying this
06:06
channel delivers this kind of
06:09
content in this packaging. And
06:09
so once they feel really
06:13
confident about that, they're
06:13
more likely to surface your
06:15
videos to people that haven't
06:15
subscribed to your channel yet.
06:18
So in a nutshell, that's, that's
06:18
what we think is was going on.
06:22  Kevin
Yeah. And so this being
06:22
one of the huge differences
06:25
between podcasting and the open
06:25
podcast ecosystem, and YouTube
06:29
in the video world, and then
06:29
kind of controlling it and being
06:32
the main distribution source is
06:32
that you like live and die on
06:36
YouTube by the algorithm, right?
06:36
Like, if they're not promoting
06:40
your, your materials, you're not
06:40
going to go anywhere.
06:43  Alban
Yeah, there's two sides
06:43
of it. One is, they bring you
06:46
people who've never heard of
06:46
you. But then they also decide
06:50
if the people who've actually
06:50
subscribed to your show, get to
06:53
see it at all. So it's pretty
06:53
common for Buzzsprout. You know,
06:58
we have 64 65,000 subscribers,
06:58
for a video totally initially be
07:04
shown to 1000 of them. And
07:04
often, we've promoted that video
07:08
ourselves through newsletter and
07:08
social and other places. So
07:13
YouTube often is like, Yeah, I
07:13
don't really think many of your
07:17
subscribers really want to see
07:17
this. So in podcasting, it's a
07:21
very different question. Because
07:21
Yeah, they Apple podcasts and
07:25
overcast and Spotify didn't
07:25
really do anything to help us
07:29
get Buzzcast the podcast in
07:29
front of new people, but they at
07:33
least do us the kindness of
07:33
showing everybody our content
07:38
every time we put out a new
07:38
podcast. And so that I
07:41  Kevin
think those like taking
07:41
the strengths of both, right and
07:44
combining them together is what
07:44
we're trying to do and what
07:47
we're trying to teach, which is
07:47
use YouTube as a great marketing
07:51
channel to help people discover
07:51
you. But do your best to build
07:55
your audience as a podcast,
07:55
because when people subscribe to
07:59
your podcast or follow your
07:59
podcasts, not only will they be
08:02
more loyal? And is it more
08:02
intimate and more convenient for
08:05
them to listen to you, as long
08:05
as your content works in audio
08:07
only format. It also is a
08:07
guarantee that they will get all
08:12
your episodes as you push them
08:12
because you're not relying on
08:14
somebody else in the middle
08:14
saying, I know you just
08:17
published a new video and
08:17
somebody follows your channel.
08:20
But we don't think this is the
08:20
most interesting thing for them.
08:22  Alban
We've seen the positive
08:22
side of this for the Buzzsprout
08:25
conversations videos we put out
08:25
that I think we I mean the first
08:30
one I recorded, we just kind of
08:30
did it on a whim. And then we
08:35
saw it actually started getting
08:35
recommended in the algorithm
08:38
pretty well. We were like, oh,
08:38
people want to watch our long
08:42
interviews where I like overly
08:42
stared at my camera for a really
08:47
long time to have like a serial
08:47
killer vibe. But the algorithm
08:52
liked it. people watched it.
08:52
Jordan Harbinger had a ton of
08:56
really good comments and a ton
08:56
of insight into the podcasting
08:59
industry. And it was like a good
08:59
way of testing that podcast
09:04
idea. If we if it was a podcast,
09:04
we would have had to start a
09:09
podcast and then start promoting
09:09
it for months to really know
09:13
whether or not there was
09:13
something there. It was really
09:15
nice that YouTube pretty much
09:15
picked it up right away. It was
09:18
like yeah, this is a show that
09:18
people will want to watch and we
09:20
were able to see all that data
09:20
pretty clearly.
09:23  Travis
And before we get too
09:23
far into the episode. Do we have
09:25
anything going on next month? I
09:25
know we're gonna be a podcast
09:27
movement. Are we doing anything
09:27
special there?
09:29  Alban
We are going to podcast
09:29
movement in Nashville,
09:32
Tennessee. I think it's August 3
09:32
to sixth. I'm super excited
09:37
about it. I haven't been to a
09:37
podcast conference since right
09:40
before all the lockdowns with
09:40
COVID so it'll be great to see
09:44
everybody again. We are doing to
09:44
I think Buzzsprout is a whole
09:50
lot like for talks between we're
09:50
doing a podcast primer we're
09:56
doing I have a talk Thomas talk
09:56
on his on a On a talk as well.
10:02
So got a lot going on, very
10:02
excited for everyone who comes.
10:06
And I think Wednesday night or
10:06
Thursday, I think we're still
10:09
locking in the actual date,
10:09
we're going to have like a
10:12
Buzzsprout mixer. So we'll send
10:12
something out, I'm sure the
10:14
email, anybody who's going to
10:14
podcast movement is invited to
10:18
come if you're on Buzzsprout,
10:18
and we'll probably have drinks
10:22
and food and hang out with
10:22
everybody. So to be will have
10:28
some updates. Alright, so we've
10:28
got a lot of follow up. And I
10:34
just have this all under the
10:34
header of Apple podcasts,
10:37
because there's a lot happening
10:37
with Apple podcasts. And we can
10:42
kind of just jump right into it.
10:42
First, there's an apple podcast
10:46
bug that has been fixed. For a
10:46
long time we were running into
10:50
this issue with podcast, that
10:50
descriptions weren't really
10:54
showing up, right? We would see
10:54
it and we didn't know if this
10:58
was, you know, long term if this
10:58
was their goal or not. But there
11:02
weren't links inside of the
11:02
apple podcasts app. They weren't
11:06
showing up, right? Unless you
11:06
put in like a naked URL, which
11:11
was, you know, kind of a bummer.
11:11
We were really hoping they're
11:13
going to pull those out. And a
11:13
lot of the formatting options
11:16
weren't there. For a long time,
11:16
we really had no clue where this
11:21
was going. I'm sure. Kevin or I
11:21
probably sent out some snarky
11:25
tweets or something. Like Come
11:25
on.
11:28  Kevin
No more snarky. They were
11:28
questioning what's happening.
11:31  Alban
Yeah, I was definitely
11:31
concerned that it was
11:35
intentional. And we were seeing
11:35
Apple say, Hey, you know, you
11:39
can't link to your, you know, to
11:39
your payment page from Apple,
11:45
you know, some apple apps, I was
11:45
afraid we were going to see you
11:48
can't link to your podcast stuff
11:48
if you don't have an apple
11:51
podcast subscription. Turns out
11:51
that was a oversight. We
11:56
actually had a customer for us
11:56
an email from Apple saying, Hey,
12:01
we're working to solve this
12:01
issue. And a few days later, the
12:05
issue is done.
12:06  Kevin
This is Apple, this is
12:06
how the apple operates. And I do
12:10
really love everyone the apple
12:10
team, but it's hilarious,
12:12
because what does it been like
12:12
three months, that this problem
12:15
has been persisting? And we've
12:15
been tweeting, and we've been
12:17
emailing, and we've been talking
12:17
to everybody else in the
12:19
industry. And Apple has been
12:19
like radio silence like nothing,
12:23
no comment. And then they
12:23
hundreds and 1000s of emails I'm
12:26
sure they've gotten in that
12:26
time. And then they've responded
12:29
to somebody and said, Oh, yeah,
12:29
we're aware of it. It'll be
12:31
fixed in and then the next day,
12:31
like links work.
12:36  Alban
On there's a probable
12:36
amount of anxiety. I don't know.
12:40
But they
12:41  Kevin
don't talk about stuff
12:41
until it's ready. Like, Oh, I
12:43
know, apples Mo, like when it's
12:43
ready, we will tell you before
12:46
then we've got no comment. And
12:46
so, I mean, I think it's, it's
12:51
sometimes it's frustrating. And
12:51
it's it's hard to operate in
12:54
that world. But it's like if you
12:54
know, apple, this really
12:56
shouldn't be a huge surprise,
12:56
right?
12:58  Alban
Well, where we're on the
12:58
other end, I think that's
13:01
probably why I work here and not
13:01
Apple, also, Apple would never
13:06
offer me a job. That's another
13:06
big piece. But when we have
13:12
like, the stats, all of a sudden
13:12
are delayed by an hour. And now
13:16
we're, we're on like Twitter,
13:16
like, hey, stats are delayed
13:20
here. Oh, we're working on it.
13:20
Here's the update, it's gonna be
13:23
another 15 minutes. Here's
13:23
another update, kind of like
13:26
constantly talking with our
13:26
customers. If we had a big,
13:30
something pretty big that was
13:30
changed, or possibly broken. And
13:35
we end you were like, no matter
13:35
what, do not acknowledge it.
13:39
Don't talk about it for three
13:39
months, I would be in
13:42
counseling, anxiety disorder, it
13:42
would be like, I don't think I
13:47
could do it. It'd be way too
13:47
much stress. Because I'd be
13:49
like, feel like I was constantly
13:49
just ignoring people. So I feel
13:54
for everybody who's on the
13:54
support team, who had to kind of
13:57
be like, Oh, thank you for the
13:57
info.
14:00  Travis
So yeah, so that's the
14:00
first first bit of news, the
14:03
links work. Formatting works. If
14:03
you had like bullets, and like
14:06
paragraph breaks, it's not just
14:06
like one massive jumble of
14:10
letters, like the old Spotify
14:10
app, if you guys remember that
14:13
the yoji. Spotify was the
14:13
original, no, no formatting,
14:16
just Wild Wild West, whatever
14:16
you throw in there, it don't
14:19
matter. We're gonna repurpose it
14:19
and do whatever we want with it.
14:21  Alban
There's actually one
14:21
wrinkle that when I was testing
14:24
this before, the show that I
14:24
realized, there's if you just
14:30
searched for a show, and you
14:30
just look at the description,
14:34
there's no links still does all
14:34
the formatting. But the links,
14:39
you know, actually like the HTML
14:39
links, I don't know how like
14:43
naked URLs, look, how they work,
14:43
but the actual clicking on words
14:48
to go to a link, those are not
14:48
showing up. That I could totally
14:53
see being intentional, that you
14:53
don't know what this podcast is.
14:57
You're just kind of reading
14:57
about it. Maybe Apple doesn't
15:00
want you just clicking on random
15:00
links and who knows what website
15:03
you show up on. So when you
15:03
subscribe when you follow, or
15:08
you download an episode, then
15:08
you all that's when you'll
15:12
actually see all that
15:12
formatting. So if for some
15:15
reason, maybe you like me, use a
15:15
third party app to listen to
15:20
podcasts. And then you go check
15:20
your own show on Apple podcasts.
15:24
And you're all of a sudden,
15:24
like, no, this isn't fixed. Go
15:27
ahead, subscribe to this show.
15:27
And then look at it. Because
15:30
that's, that's how your
15:30
listeners are actually
15:32
experiencing the episode.
15:34  Kevin
Right? And so I would
15:34
recommend, one of the things you
15:37
asked about are before you
15:37
follow the show, do the links
15:41
work and HTML links do not. And
15:41
you asked about like for URLs,
15:46
do they work they do. And so for
15:46
any link that's important, or
15:50
that you think you might want
15:50
somebody to be able to click on
15:53
even if they're following your
15:53
show or not, you should go ahead
15:55
and add the.com to the end of
15:55
that. So you can still write
15:58
things like whatever this show
15:58
is hosted on Buzzsprout. But if
16:02
you put buzzsprout.com, then it
16:02
will actually be a link
16:07  Travis
not HTTPS, colon slash
16:07
don't have to have the https
16:11
colon slash slash,
16:12  Kevin
it's really looking for
16:12
like a word and dot extension.
16:15
So I've seen a lot of those,
16:15
like wondery just published
16:19
their whole catalogue as a Apple
16:19
podcast channel, and you can
16:23
subscribe to it and stuff. And I
16:23
was looking at a lot of their
16:25
shows. And it looks like as part
16:25
of that, setting up that
16:28
channel, they went through and
16:28
updated all their episode notes,
16:31
show notes, whatever you call
16:31
them, descriptions. And they not
16:35
everything like when you follow
16:35
you do see more links. But it
16:38
seems like the main ones like to
16:38
the I don't know, I guess
16:43
there's a doctor death. And
16:43
they're doing a TV show or
16:45
something and like the links to
16:45
the TV show stuff like that they
16:48
were intentional about going in
16:48
there and putting the.com or the
16:52
slash or whatever. But you don't
16:52
have to do the prefix stuff.
16:55
HTTP, HTTPS. That's not
16:55
necessary.
16:58  Alban
Yeah. All this assumes,
16:58
though, that people actually
17:01
download your episodes and
17:01
listen to them, which is not
17:07
something you should always
17:07
assume. So that blank above is
17:11
fixed. But a new bug may be
17:11
still out there for Apple
17:16
podcasts. Sounds like it bout
17:16
the end of May. And there's a
17:22
new Apple podcasts app on May
17:22
24. So it's probably about then
17:29
there seems to be an issue with
17:29
some auto downloads and Apple
17:34
podcasts fail. And so people
17:34
don't actually see the episode
17:39
show up in their app. And so
17:39
this is translated to a, I
17:44
think, what do we see 27% drop
17:44
in Apple podcast downloads,
17:50
month over month. So from what
17:50
may the you know, that month of
17:55
May, and month of June. And
17:55
we've definitely seen this in
17:59
our Buzzsprout Global stats,
17:59
significant drop in Apple
18:04
podcast plays. And we are pretty
18:04
confident it's related to this.
18:10
Bug Kevin, you kind of were
18:10
talking earlier about how it's
18:14
kind of in a way, not totally a
18:14
bug.
18:16  Kevin
So all podcast apps
18:16
operate a little differently,
18:19
some of them will automatically
18:19
download episodes that you
18:22
subscribe or follow and queue
18:22
them up so that when you're
18:25
ready to listen, there's no
18:25
waiting. Or if you want to
18:28
listen on a plane or a train or
18:28
somewhere where you might not
18:30
have strong connectivity, it's
18:30
ready to go. And Apple podcasts
18:34
was one of the apps that did
18:34
that for you. And I think by
18:38
default, it would always try to
18:38
keep like the three latest
18:41
episodes. But if you hadn't
18:41
listened to any of them in the
18:44
past 30 days or something, it
18:44
would stop auto downloading, it
18:47
had some defaults in the app,
18:47
and they were pretty reasonable.
18:50
And then you could change your
18:50
default. So you could say no, I
18:53
want the latest five episodes
18:53
and download them all whether
18:56
I'm listening or not, or
18:56
whatever, you can change some
19:00
options in there. Well, all
19:00
those options, they might have
19:03
been tweaked a little bit, but
19:03
they came into the new version
19:06
of the apple podcast app.
19:06
Unfortunately, they didn't work.
19:10
And so the auto downloading even
19:10
though it had some defaults, and
19:15
you can change things, some
19:15
people were experiencing a bug
19:18
where it was an auto downloading
19:18
even if you had it turned on and
19:22
so that did impact download
19:22
numbers. But if somebody clicked
19:28
and listened to the episode
19:28
anyway, then it would still
19:31
register as a download. So it's
19:31
it's it did impact numbers
19:36
overall. And we're not sure if
19:36
that's is that an indication of
19:40
a bunch of episodes get
19:40
downloaded an apple podcast that
19:42
people never listened to. or RP
19:42
and this is probably some
19:47
percentage of that is that
19:47
people rely on the notifications
19:50
and I don't have clarify
19:50
clarification on that. I don't
19:52
know if you do Alban but I don't
19:52
know if the notification system
19:54
continued to work even though
19:54
the auto downloading didn't. My
19:58
hunch is that know that they
19:58
did? weren't getting
20:00
notifications.
20:01  Alban
That's mine, too. I don't
20:01
know. I don't know that for
20:04
sure. Since I don't use Apple
20:04
podcasts I use overcast, though.
20:10
I mean, obviously, these are
20:10
totally unrelated. I ran into
20:14
some issue with a couple
20:14
podcasts on overcast, not
20:18
downloading automatically. This
20:18
may be two, three weeks ago. And
20:24
I was like, oh, why'd they skip
20:24
a week? And I didn't look. And
20:30
then a few days later, I was
20:30
like, you know, they didn't put
20:33
out another episode. And then I
20:33
went and just went to the feed
20:36
and pulled and Yep, now those
20:36
two episodes were there. And
20:41
then I downloaded them.
20:42  Travis
And it's important to
20:42
recognize overcast uses the
20:45
apple API to pull episodes in,
20:45
or at least they did. I don't
20:48
know if now they're using
20:48
podcast index,
20:50  Alban
they use both. I think
20:50
this is totally unrelated. This
20:52
has nothing to do with the same
20:52
bug. I was just trying to run. I
20:56
was just remembering like, the
20:56
process for me was, I assumed
21:02
the bug was not in the app, and
21:02
the notification settings. The
21:07
bug was my podcast host people
21:07
that I listened to, had just
21:13
decided not to release one and
21:13
didn't let anyone know. And so I
21:18
think that that we've got a
21:18
little of like column A and
21:20
column B. In this 27% drop.
21:20
Yeah, there's some percent for
21:26
sure, that are people who
21:26
probably weren't listening. And
21:29
they continued to not listen,
21:29
when the upsets didn't download.
21:33
And then I think there's some
21:33
there are probably the group
21:37
that I would be in that don't
21:37
see the download, go, oh, man,
21:42
there's not an episode. And then
21:42
they just move on with their
21:45
life. So I, I know that the way
21:45
that Apple language was about
21:52
this, listening is unaffected,
21:52
which I think is I'm not 100%
21:57
sure, if I would, I mean, if you
21:57
want to listen, it's unaffected.
22:00
But the prompt to listen is
22:00
affected. The issue can reduce
22:06
download numbers reported by
22:06
third party hosting providers
22:09
like Buzzsprout, and will be
22:09
resolved with a software update
22:15
in a couple of weeks. So they
22:15
put this out a little while ago,
22:19
on the first so two weeks ago,
22:19
that tells me like, we need to
22:23
we're going to be waiting for a
22:23
new version of iOS, I think
22:26
before this bug is resolved
22:26
seems like some stuff Apple can
22:30
update in the app, just fix at
22:30
any time. And then some stuff
22:36
kind of needs the software
22:36
update. So this looks like a
22:39
software update one. And I think
22:39
we're going to be waiting, you
22:43
know, at least another week or
22:43
two until we see some other cool
22:47
stuff, I'm sure for Apple
22:47
podcasts, but also getting
22:50
downloads back to where they
22:50
were, we don't
22:53  Kevin
have a ton of details
22:53
about the bug. It doesn't seem
22:55
like it's affecting everybody
22:55
feels like it's affecting some.
22:59
And I don't know if that's like,
22:59
I don't know if that means just
23:01
some phone some devices. Or if
23:01
it's just some podcasts, like if
23:07
there's, but we don't have any
23:07
clarification on that. So we're
23:10
continuing to test and look
23:10
around. I think the biggest
23:13
impact would have been in I
23:13
don't use Apple podcasts as my
23:17
daily podcast player. But I do
23:17
know that when you go to the
23:20
listen tab and Apple podcasts,
23:20
they have an up next they sort
23:23
of like auto build a playlist
23:23
for you. And I think that's
23:25
based on the most recent
23:25
episodes from podcasts that you
23:27
follow. And I don't know because
23:27
my phone doesn't I can't seem to
23:30
replicate this behavior of it
23:30
not out of downloading all the
23:33
episodes that all the podcasts
23:33
that I follow seem to have two
23:36
or three episodes queued up.
23:36
Yeah, as as I would expect. So
23:40
if anybody's out there who
23:40
listens and you know, has run
23:42
into this bug on your end, we'd
23:42
love to hear about it. I'm
23:46
really interested in if it's
23:46
populating the what's next, even
23:49
if it's not download or Up next,
23:49
even if it's not downloading the
23:52
episodes in the background.
23:54  Travis
Yeah, drop us a comment
23:54
in the YouTube video on our new
23:56
channel. That'd be a great way
23:56
to hear from you guys. Yeah, if
23:59
you're seeing that behavior and
23:59
happen to use Apple podcasts Now
24:01
a couple quick hitters before we
24:01
move on, about podcast Connect,
24:05
there are two small changes that
24:05
Apple has made to the podcast
24:09
Connect platform regarding, you
24:09
know, paid or freemium,
24:14
subscription base podcasts, and
24:14
some of the verbage there so
24:17
album, what are the what are the
24:17
changes they have made? To make
24:20
it easier to know when you're
24:20
setting up like that you're
24:22
doing it correctly.
24:23  Alban
Remember, when we filmed
24:23
the video on setting up a
24:26
subscription, there was one part
24:26
where it's like, do you want to
24:29
start a new podcast or add an
24:29
RSS feed? And then it's
24:34
confusing for people because
24:34
probably the first thing you do
24:37
when you start a new podcast is
24:37
you upload your shows to a host
24:40
like Buzzsprout. And then you
24:40
submit to Apple podcasts. So
24:43
when you see that start a new
24:43
podcast, you're probably
24:46
thinking, Okay, I'm just going
24:46
to go ahead and click that
24:49
because I'm starting a new one.
24:49
And that was a little confusing
24:52
because what Apple wanted you to
24:52
do is say I already have an RSS
24:56
feed and that's where the files
24:56
are because this is a podcast.
25:00
available everywhere. It's not
25:00
exclusive to Apple. So they've
25:05
clarified that a bit more. And I
25:05
believe the default is actually,
25:09
I already have the RSS feed. And
25:09
then the other option is like
25:13
start a paid Apple podcast
25:13
subscription. So they've cleaned
25:19
that language up. You have to
25:19
imagine, you know, Apple hears
25:24
hundreds and hundreds of emails
25:24
for every time somebody gets
25:27
confused. So I'm excited to see
25:27
that change. And then the other
25:31
one is, back when the brand new
25:31
Apple podcast Connect came out,
25:37
there was a lot of talk about
25:37
the iTunes API that drives a lot
25:43
of podcast apps, a lot of
25:43
podcasts apps actually look to
25:45
Apple to say, Hey, I know you're
25:45
already screening all these
25:49
shows to make sure they're
25:49
appropriate. They're not
25:51
copyrighted, they are actual
25:51
podcasts. And Apple has always
25:58
allowed people to get that list
25:58
for free. And then there were
26:02
some bugs there. And there was a
26:02
question about whether or not
26:05
they would turn that option off.
26:05
Looks like they're fully
26:09
committed to that being an
26:09
option long term. There is now
26:14
the default is, if my podcast is
26:14
an apple podcast, it's also
26:19
available for other apps to see.
26:19
And you can turn that off, but
26:24
it's the default is that it's
26:24
on. And it's kind of a buried
26:27
setting. So if for some reason
26:27
you really want it only
26:31
available on Apple, which some
26:31
podcasters actually do, then
26:36
that's how it all works out. So
26:36
two updates, both well accepted
26:41
by all of us.
26:46  Travis
So literally, on if it
26:46
was hours, or maybe a day after
26:49
we recorded the last episode of
26:49
Buzzcast a ton of stuff hit the
26:53
news wire about Audacity. And so
26:53
we want to make the news wire
26:57  Alban
I don't know what do you
26:57
what do you call it when new
26:59
thing out PR press releases
26:59
about like audacity purchased by
27:04
Muse due to Doom breaking news,
27:06  Travis
audacity is spying on
27:06
you? Well, I mean, that's what
27:09
everybody was saying. So like a
27:09
lot of the podcast editor
27:12
groups, like Facebook groups
27:12
that, that we're a part of, like
27:16
people that are really plugged
27:16
into, like the software side of
27:19
podcasting, we're raising this
27:19
this big fuss about audacity is
27:23
new privacy policy. So just to
27:23
catch you up to speed real
27:27
quick. audacity was created as
27:27
an open source, open source
27:31
audio editing platform that
27:31
people could contribute to
27:34
similar to Wikipedia. And it was
27:34
like this constantly evolving
27:37
and growing piece of audio
27:37
editing software that people
27:40
from around the world, you know,
27:40
developers from around the world
27:42
could tribute to, then they got
27:42
purchased by a company called
27:48
move the name of the company
27:48
news news, like the like the
27:53
British rock band, so they
27:53
acquired Audacity. And then, as
27:57
a part of that acquisition, as
27:57
as they started implementing
28:00
some new changes. They updated
28:00
their privacy policy, and that's
28:04
where a lot of people got
28:04
spooked wondering, okay, what is
28:08
what is really going on? What is
28:08
this company Muse doing? Why is
28:11
the word Russia showing up? And
28:11
what are they actually
28:15
collecting? So Alban kind of get
28:15
us up to speed on what the
28:19
privacy policy update was all
28:19
about. And then we'll just kind
28:23
of take it from there and talk
28:23
through should you keep using
28:26
Audacity.
28:27  Alban
I mean, without going
28:27
into, like, all the details,
28:29
there's stuff in there about,
28:29
they actually get your IP
28:34
address, especially looks like
28:34
in relationship to bugs and
28:39
crash reports and issues. IP
28:39
addresses are held for 24 hours,
28:44
but IP addresses can pretty
28:44
close identify you, you know,
28:50
they often don't maybe get the
28:50
device, but they can get, okay,
28:54
this is a person in this house
28:54
or at this coffee shop kind of
28:58
thing. So your right to feel a
28:58
little weird if people are
29:02
collecting your IP address. And
29:02
there was a lot of other
29:06
language, though, I know this to
29:06
be pretty boilerplate. I think a
29:10
lot of people saw like, we will
29:10
only disclose this to third
29:14
parties, if we are legally
29:14
obligated to or it's in the if
29:19
there's a crime. And so people
29:19
are thinking, Oh my gosh, are
29:25
they sending my audio files and
29:25
like scanning them to see if
29:28
like I committed a crime and
29:28
then they'll turn me over to the
29:32
thought police if like, whatever
29:32
I said was not acceptable. I
29:36
think the fear level got jacked
29:36
a little too high. And I think
29:43
it's fair to bring it back down.
29:43
That's pretty normal. Like if a
29:47
court orders you to turn
29:47
something over to help solve a
29:51
crime. Yeah, you have to turn it
29:51
over. Which is just standards
29:57
can be in every privacy policy
29:57
you've ever not written And just
30:00
clicked through and accepted the
30:00
terms of service. So I'm not too
30:05
worried about that one. But the
30:05
concerning piece is that it was
30:10
open source software, and then
30:10
it was bought by a company. So
30:13
it's not like the software is
30:13
now copyrighted by this company.
30:18
But the main version of
30:18
audacity, which everyone was
30:24
contributing to is now
30:24
controlled by a company, that at
30:28
least there were hints that they
30:28
had interests of trying to
30:31
figure out how to monetize it,
30:31
or sell audacity,
30:34  Travis
well, and specifically
30:34
to use data from audacity as
30:38
users as something they could
30:38
sell in the same way that social
30:42
media apps sell information to
30:42
companies to make money.
30:44  Alban
I understand that that
30:44
was what people were concerned
30:47
about, I think the actual fear
30:47
that could be legitimate is that
30:51
they were using information,
30:51
they would use information, like
30:55
the average person who downloads
30:55
audacity uses it three times a
30:58
week, in the process of selling,
30:58
what they just recently bought.
31:06
The wrinkle here is that open
31:06
source software is like, what
31:10
maybe what you said, Wikipedia
31:10
is kind of closed, a lot of
31:13
people are working together to
31:13
write a book. And there's one
31:18
person who's the publisher,
31:18
who's actually like printing the
31:21
books and handing them out. But
31:21
the words would not be
31:25
copyrighted. And so anybody
31:25
could do that. And so they do
31:29
control the, you know, the
31:29
actual printing of the book and
31:33
handing it out. But that's not
31:33
stopping anyone else from in
31:40
open source software, forking
31:40
The, the code base and saying,
31:44
All right, we've all been
31:44
working on writing this book.
31:46
And now it looks like this news
31:46
company might be doing something
31:49
we're not okay with. Whether or
31:49
not it's legitimate or not, just
31:53
putting that aside, the open
31:53
source community can always just
31:55
fork it. And there's seems to be
31:55
a ton of response that they're
31:59
going to they have. And there
31:59
will just be audacity, and
32:06
audacity, tailors version or
32:06
something.
32:09  Kevin
And just to be clear, in
32:09
the open source software world,
32:11
when Alvin says fork something,
32:11
it just means make your own copy
32:14
and develop your own version of
32:14
it from there. So Muse might
32:17
have some changes that they want
32:17
to make. But at any point,
32:20
somebody can step back in the
32:20
code base, like before they made
32:22
those changes, make a copy of
32:22
it, and then distribute it
32:25
however they want, because the
32:25
code is open and available for
32:28
anybody to use and build upon.
32:28
And then there's a whole bunch
32:32
of fun stuff that goes in and
32:32
can happen when that happens.
32:35
But somebody's in charge of the
32:35
project, right. So usually what
32:38
happens is somebody will create
32:38
a fork, they'll do some
32:40
enhancements, and then they'll
32:40
submit those changes back to the
32:44
master branch, and then
32:44
whoever's in charge of the
32:46
project can say, that's
32:46
something we want to accept them
32:48
to the main product, or we
32:48
don't. And so when you don't,
32:51
that's when you end up with a
32:51
whole bunch of different
32:52
versions of something. And you
32:52
can pick and choose whatever
32:55
flavor you want. But there's
32:55
always one main thing. And
32:58
that's what Muse bought, and is
32:58
now in charge of. And so they
33:01
get decide what goes in and what
33:01
goes out. And one of the things
33:05
that they put in was some
33:05
changes to the privacy policy,
33:07
and the fact that they are going
33:07
to collect a little bit of
33:08
information about how you use
33:08
it, it seems like most of it is
33:11
diagnostic information, which is
33:11
pretty normal for software to
33:14
collect when you use it. But the
33:14
norm recently, especially in the
33:18
apple world has been that has
33:18
been you've been able to opt in
33:21
or out of providing diagnostic
33:21
information. If you set up an
33:25
iPhone lately, if you set up any
33:25
software through the Mac App
33:28
Store, you'll see that they have
33:28
to ask your permission now, but
33:31
that's an apple guideline,
33:31
before they can you can request
33:34
diagnostic information or crash
33:34
reports from a user they have to
33:37
say yes, you can send that data
33:37
us does not or audacity and us
33:42
as the owner don't have to
33:42
follow those rules, because
33:44
they're not distributing it as
33:44
an app or through the app store.
33:46
They can just do it however they
33:46
want. People are a little
33:49
concerned about that. Overall, I
33:49
think this is actually great
33:53
that people care, right? privacy
33:53
is becoming more and more of
33:57
something that people are
33:57
starting to think about. And we
34:00
should be cautious whenever
34:00
software that we're using or
34:04
websites that we're visiting or
34:04
podcasts that we're listening to
34:07
are collecting information about
34:07
us. It's good to have a general
34:10
understanding that this stuff
34:10
happens. And we should we should
34:14
be informed on what they're
34:14
collecting and why they're
34:18
collecting it. Right. So I think
34:18
it's great that people are
34:21
asking these questions. We
34:21
probably don't need. Like, there
34:24
were some panicky conversations
34:24
happening in Facebook Like I'm
34:28
gonna delete it. I need to find
34:28
this.
34:30  Alban
pause for a second. Yeah,
34:30
you're stressed out that an app
34:35
is paying attention to you is
34:35
collecting data about you. So
34:38
you ran to Facebook to let
34:38
everyone know how upset you
34:43
were. His app was steady crash
34:43
reports the entire time Mark
34:48
Zuckerberg he's like pulling
34:48
every piece of data he can out
34:52
of you so that he could serve up
34:52
like the world's most targeted
34:57
right back to you. The The worst
34:57
offender of this is Facebook. So
35:02
if you're really concerned,
35:02
which I think is a good thing,
35:05
maybe consider reducing your
35:05
Facebook or maybe eliminating
35:09
your Facebook use
35:11  Kevin
good point. But it's
35:11
happening a lot in the
35:13
podcasting world as well.
35:13
There's there are some other I
35:18
don't know if I want to
35:18
whatever, I don't care. There
35:21
are 19 is really big. And the
35:21
targeting megaphone, which is on
35:25
by Spotify is really big in the
35:25
targeting, I should say, if I'm
35:27
gonna say who owns megaphone at
35:27
Spotify, who owns 19 is now
35:30
Amazon. They just bought them.
35:30
They're in the targeting. So
35:32
they're trying to figure out
35:32
everything they can about
35:35
everyone who's listening to a
35:35
podcast, so they can target ads,
35:39
as precisely as possible. Yeah,
35:39
it's not great. And so I say,
35:46
Yeah, like, ask the questions,
35:46
figure out which data you're
35:50
sharing who you're sharing it
35:50
with. And we should all have
35:53
boundaries and lines, and maybe
35:53
at some point, government
35:56
regulation around the stuff. But
35:56
the use case, it's not abnormal.
36:00
Just because it's not abnormal
36:00
doesn't mean that we should
36:02
totally accepted with open arms.
36:02
So let's keep having the
36:05
conversations. Although at this
36:05
point, from what we've heard,
36:09
what we've seen and read about,
36:09
it just seems like it's mostly
36:13
diagnostic information, which is
36:13
not being commercialized yet.
36:18
And so that's kind of a, you
36:18
know, that's like Level One is,
36:21
are they commercializing or
36:21
trying to monetize my personal
36:24
data are using it to impact or
36:24
affect my buying decisions to
36:27
advertise to me to target me?
36:27
They're not doing that yet. That
36:30
sounds like right now. They're
36:30
just collecting the information.
36:33
For the purpose of making the
36:33
software better. Let me say this
36:36
as, as a general, good advice
36:36
morning from somebody who's in
36:40
software development. Don't
36:40
unless you know what you're
36:44
doing. Unless you're a software
36:44
developer, unless you understand
36:47
open source software, unless you
36:47
trust whoever's pointing you to
36:50
a URL or a download, do not go
36:50
out and search for third party
36:56
or variant forks of audacity
36:56
that promise no use tracking,
37:01
all right, because what can
37:01
happen is, since it is an open
37:04
code base, anybody can take that
37:04
they can put whatever they want
37:06
in it, and then they can compile
37:06
it and put it on a website that
37:09
says this is a you know, the
37:09
best version of audacity to use
37:13
use this one. None of them are
37:13
official. And when they're not
37:15
official, you don't know what's
37:15
in there. And so these forks are
37:19
great for people who want to go
37:19
back in the codebase themselves.
37:22
They want to remove anything
37:22
that they don't like they want
37:25
to compile a version for
37:25
themselves, and they want to
37:26
distribute it to maybe some of
37:26
their friends. But just doing a
37:29
general Google search. And
37:29
trying to find a variant of
37:33
audacity that doesn't have this
37:33
tracking in it is a pretty
37:36
dangerous game to play. And
37:38  Alban
much creepier or Yes,
37:40  Travis
actually malicious. And
37:40
if you want to enter into the
37:43
wonderful world of non
37:43
destructive editing, then you
37:47
can check out software like the
37:47
scripts, or GarageBand, or
37:49
Hindenburg or Logic Pro,
37:49
essentially anything except for
37:52
audacity, which will let you
37:52
easily go back and undo mistakes
37:56
after you've saved the project.
37:56
It makes it easier to edit
37:59
podcasts. So if you have some
37:59
budget to go out and get a nicer
38:04
software, audacity, it does
38:04
work. But there are other
38:07
software's that are much better.
38:07
And we have a bunch of resources
38:10
on our blog. So we'll leave a
38:10
link to that in the show notes.
38:13
If you want to go and check out
38:13
those other software's to see if
38:15
that could be a better fit for
38:15
you
38:16  Alban
got a bunch of discount
38:16
codes inside of Buzzsprout if
38:19
you want to try and if I'm out.
38:19
That's right. That's right. It's
38:21
not just not sponsored by
38:21
Hindenburg or descript. But
38:25
maybe it should be because
38:25
there's a lot of there's some
38:28
discount codes in there.
38:32  Travis
So the last thing we
38:32
want to hit on, before we wrap
38:35
up, this episode of Buzzcast is
38:35
podcast SEO sounds really fancy
38:40
and promises a lot search engine
38:40
option optimization being that
38:44
you create something once you
38:44
put the right words in it. And
38:47
then the internet just starts
38:47
showing it to people in your
38:49
sleep, then you just magically
38:49
grow your audience. So in
38:53
theory, it sounds wonderful in
38:53
practice with podcasts, that it
38:59
can leave some you desired. And
38:59
so over at pod news, James
39:03
Cridland did a big deep dive of
39:03
podcast listening apps like
39:07
Apple podcast, Spotify overcast,
39:07
and looked at their search
39:11
practices. So when someone
39:11
searches something in the app,
39:14
what information are they
39:14
actually using to populate those
39:17
results? So, Kevin, do you want
39:17
to kind of look through this
39:21
chart that they put together
39:21
looking at what information is
39:26
used by podcast apps to search
39:26
for data and and kind of what it
39:31
means for podcasters that are
39:31
looking at podcast SEO as a
39:34
marketing tool.
39:35  Alban
Can we give credit to
39:35
mark Steadman real quick because
39:38
he's, he's actually the one who
39:38
wrote it. James Kirtland, that
39:41
contributor so I want to make
39:41
sure that we give him the credit
39:44
points. Thank you,
39:45  Kevin
Mark. All right. So yeah,
39:45
it was I didn't get a chance to
39:48
process the whole article yet,
39:48
but I'm looking at this this
39:51
chart and what we're talking
39:51
about it before this episode, I
39:53
thought this was really
39:53
interesting. They put a chart
39:56
together for how many listeners
39:56
use podcast apps. That search
40:00
for these specific tags and then
40:00
they go down all the different
40:03
tags. And so it can get a little
40:03
technical if you don't
40:05
understand how an RSS feed is
40:05
structured. But there's there's
40:08
things that what they call the
40:08
channel level, channel level is
40:11
for the podcast overall. And
40:11
then there's things at the item
40:13
level, which are specific to an
40:13
episode. So just to make it
40:16
simple, I will just say about
40:16
the podcast, like the podcast
40:20
title, or I'll say an episode
40:20
title. And there's no surprise
40:24
on kind of the big ones, which
40:24
is that the podcast title 100%
40:27
of the apps are using the
40:27
podcast title to surface search
40:30
results. And 96.7. Pretty much
40:30
100% of these podcasts apps are
40:36
also using the episode titles to
40:36
surface search results. No huge
40:40
surprise there, it starts to get
40:40
a little bit interesting after
40:44
that, because the podcast
40:44
description, almost all the apps
40:47
will use that as well. So if you
40:47
put good information about what
40:50
your podcast is about in the
40:50
podcast description, they will
40:53
use some keywords that they kind
40:53
of pull out of your description
40:56
to try to surface you. But
40:56
almost none of them will do the
41:00
same thing at the episode level.
41:00
So if you're writing all these
41:03
great show notes, for your
41:03
episodes, in hopes, like if
41:08
you're if you're writing them as
41:08
a service to your listeners,
41:10
fantastic, and I think that you
41:10
should continue doing it. But if
41:12
you're writing them in hopes
41:12
that people are going to search
41:15
for some of these terms that
41:15
you're putting in your episode
41:17
notes. It's 4.3%. And which was
41:17
like, mind blowing to me, I knew
41:22
it wasn't hugely important, but
41:22
I didn't know that almost no
41:25
apps, search the description of
41:25
episodes, I thought it was
41:29
really interesting. We know that
41:29
author is big author seems to be
41:34
big on the pot, the podcast
41:34
level, and almost 100% of the
41:38
podcast level, about 50%. On the
41:38
episode level. I think I got one
41:44
of these stats wrong earlier.
41:44
Did you guys catch that? I said
41:47
almost 100% of the podcast
41:47
description, but it's actually
41:49
58% of the podcast description.
41:49
So podcast descriptions are
41:52
important. But episode
41:52
descriptions are not when you're
41:56
talking about search, an author
41:56
is important on both. So if you
41:59
just say the Buzzcast podcast
41:59
mean it if at the podcast level,
42:04
if we just say the author is
42:04
Buzzsprout, that's totally fine.
42:07
Then we can go down in the
42:07
individual episodes, and we can
42:10
list who's on the episode. So
42:10
for this one, it would be myself
42:13
and Travis an album. But last
42:13
week, it wouldn't have me it
42:17
would have tombak. So hopefully
42:17
somebody who's searching for Tom
42:19
book podcast episodes, and at
42:19
least half of the podcast apps
42:23
would have surfaced that
42:23
episode, which is which is
42:25
pretty interesting.
42:26  Travis
Yeah. So I think the big
42:26
takeaway here is that if you're
42:29
going to look at search engine
42:29
optimization, within podcast
42:32
apps, you really got to focus on
42:32
making sure that the name of
42:36
your podcasts is is like really
42:36
specific and intentional. So it
42:41
wouldn't be like the Kevin Finn
42:41
show, it'd be something that
42:44
people would actually be
42:44
searching for. And then, if
42:50
you're taking a lot of time to
42:50
do show notes, do it because
42:53
it's helpful for your listeners,
42:53
not like let me keyword stuff,
42:58
the description for this
42:58
episode, in order to get more
43:01
traction. In less, you're
43:01
putting those show notes on your
43:05
website, like your own personal
43:05
websites, and hoping that Google
43:11
will show it because that that's
43:11
a little bit different of a
43:13
beast, right? So we're talking
43:13
about SEO within podcast
43:16
listening apps. But if you're
43:16
putting all that effort into
43:18
creating shownotes, because you
43:18
have a website where you embed
43:21
your podcast episodes, and you
43:21
have individual pages and posts
43:25
for each episode, and you have
43:25
show notes with links and
43:28
resources, Google will still
43:28
look through that and use that
43:33
for search results. It just
43:33
won't translate to like Apple
43:36
podcasts, for instance,
43:37  Alban
one that they showed this
43:37
was, you know, I think all of us
43:43
knew this, but may not be clear
43:43
to the podcast industry, to a
43:47
lot of podcasts, ders, who are
43:47
newer is that keywords, you
43:52
know, I the keywords that you
43:52
put in for your podcast, are
43:56
rarely used. We've definitely
43:56
had conversations internally
44:00
about removing it from
44:00
Buzzsprout. Because it's only
44:04
used by a few podcast apps. I
44:04
think the exact two it's
44:09
definitely is not pot Apple
44:09
podcasts. Player FM and castbox
44:15
are the two that still use it.
44:15
People have thought that those
44:18
keywords are super important.
44:18
They're really not. You know,
44:22
the five are your title, your
44:22
description, and the author at
44:27
the channel level for the actual
44:27
whole podcast, and then the
44:30
title of episodes, and the
44:30
author of episodes. That's
44:33
really what you need to be
44:33
focusing on.
44:35  Kevin
point of clarification.
44:35
This is for podcast like
44:38
aggregator listener apps. This
44:38
is not for your podcast website
44:42
and how you might get better
44:42
search engine results in Google
44:45
or Bing or DuckDuckGo.
44:46  Unknown
Yeah, Google, Google's
44:46
even transcribing your episodes
44:49
in the background.
44:50  Kevin
Right. So if you are
44:50
putting podcast keywords into
44:53
your RSS feed, and Google's
44:53
ingesting that, like they may
44:56
like we don't know the secret
44:56
sauce of Google and they may or
44:58
may not be using that I think We
44:58
ended up taking some of for
45:01
Buzzsprout. Specifically, we
45:01
take your keywords and we put
45:03
them as a meta keyword tag on
45:03
your Buzzsprout website that you
45:07
get. So we're not saying, oh,
45:07
the apps don't use them, don't
45:09
even bother putting keywords and
45:09
still put them in there. But
45:12
just realize that in the
45:12
listening apps, specifically,
45:15
they're not, you shouldn't go in
45:15
with the expectation that
45:18
whatever keyword you put in, you
45:18
should be able to search for
45:20
that Apple podcast. And then
45:20
your podcast is going to show
45:22
up,
45:23  Alban
Travis and I have learned
45:23
a lot from YouTube has been, it
45:28
can often feel like each of
45:28
these separate descriptions and
45:33
titles and artwork and title of
45:33
the episode name are all working
45:37
independently. And it's
45:37
important to remember that they
45:40
are attracting listeners as a
45:40
group. So while some of the apps
45:46
may not be sophisticated enough
45:46
to search all of these places,
45:50
your potential listeners are
45:50
often looking at all of it. So
45:54
the way we think about it on
45:54
YouTube, and the way I think you
45:57
should think about it for your
45:57
podcast is often they see they
46:03
search for a term, and you've
46:03
really got to put it in those,
46:07
you know, one of those five
46:07
locations we just talked about.
46:10
And that term, pulls up the
46:10
podcast. And then the big thing
46:14
is your artwork needs to catch
46:14
their eye. So you want to have
46:18
some good quality artwork, we've
46:18
got tons of resources on that.
46:23
And then when they catch the
46:23
artwork, then they go to the
46:25
title. And your title really has
46:25
to deliver to them what this
46:30
podcast is about, you know, if
46:30
your podcast is, you know, the
46:35
Kevin Finn, or the Alban Brooke
46:35
show, it's very easy for people
46:39
since we're not celebrities to
46:39
look at that and go, I have no
46:41
idea who that is moving on, and
46:41
continue. But if you know
46:46
somebody was trying to find a
46:46
book review of 1984, and the
46:51
podcast is, hey, we are going
46:51
through 1984 in detail and your
46:55
student, that's what you look
46:55
for. Perfect. It's right there.
46:58
So you want to deliver what
46:58
they're searching for. And then
47:03
they're going to go and maybe
47:03
they're going to read that
47:05
description. Even if it's not,
47:05
you know, indexed and searchable
47:10
by one of these apps. People
47:10
often read that description or
47:13
at least skim it to go get a
47:13
better feel for the podcast
47:17
before they subscribe. So
47:17
they're not all these things
47:21
aren't searchable in apps, but
47:21
they are definitely important in
47:26
the listener acquisition
47:26
process. And then like Kevin's
47:30
reminded us, Google is looking
47:30
at all of this. So if you have a
47:34
podcast website, and we really
47:34
recommend doing that, you are
47:38
going to have episodes show up
47:38
all over the web for people who
47:43
are searching for the thing that
47:43
you're podcasting about.
47:46  Travis
Yep. And that podcast
47:46
website could simply be the one
47:49
that Buzzsprout gives you if you
47:49
host with Buzzsprout, that those
47:52
websites were designed in such a
47:52
way to really be attractive to
47:55
Google podcasts. And so your
47:55
podcast episodes will show up in
48:00
Google podcasts, people can play
48:00
them directly within the Google
48:02
podcast, web portal if they
48:02
search it. And so you don't have
48:06
to go and create something
48:06
custom. You can certainly start
48:08
with the Buzzsprout website. And
48:08
if you want to add additional
48:10
features that we don't have,
48:10
then you could look at
48:12
Squarespace or Wix or WordPress,
48:12
to really build that out.
48:16  Alban
And thank you so much to
48:16
mark for doing that. I we've
48:20
done some of this testing
48:20
ourselves in the past. So I know
48:22
how much work actually went into
48:22
this very cool blog post that we
48:26
can link. And if you're trying
48:26
to figure out who indexes what,
48:31
this is probably the best
48:31
resource on the web.
48:33  Travis
Well, Kevin, it's been
48:33
great to have you back in the
48:35
fold. Back on back on Buzzcast.
48:35
For the call to action for this
48:40
episode, go and subscribe to the
48:40
new Buzzcast YouTube channel.
48:44
Even if you just listen to the
48:44
audio version. You can go and
48:47
see albums epic golf shirt, you
48:47
can go and interact with us
48:51
leave comments what you thought
48:51
about this episode. The big
48:54
takeaways, if you use Audacity
48:54
how you feel about that thoughts
48:57
on Amazon or Apple podcast if
48:57
you use that, we really do want
49:00
to use YouTube as a way for us
49:00
to create a really fun,
49:04
interactive community around
49:04
this show. So that's it for
49:07
today. Thanks for listening and
49:07
as always, keep podcasting