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episode 41: Cooking is connecting. Kibby's story on the theraputic connecting power that can take place in the kitchen to help children break through the barriers of trauma and maladaptive behaviors. [transcript]


Kibby has been cooking in the kitchen for over 25 years. In his role as a biological, foster, and adoptive parent, he has seen first-hand the affects that trauma can have on a child’s relationships and their ability to receive love, regulation, and support - even from the most well-meaning of caregivers. Over the last year he has became more trauma informed to better understand  all of this. During this time, something amazing happened and he saw first hand the power of connecting in the kitchen and the benefits it can have on breaking through the barriers of trauma and maladaptive behaviors in children. Not only does cooking and connecting have that power, but it also  gives caregivers and parents a voice that speaks love, acceptance, and safety. Somethiing that children need when they have experienced trauma.

Connect with Kibby: https://www.cookinwithkibby.com/cooking-is-connecting
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 2021-07-20  1h14m
 
 
00:00  Kibby
It was the changing
00:00
point. In my relationship with
00:03
myself and with my children and
00:03
with cooking to understand the
00:07
connecting power that takes
00:07
place, it was the yes that I was
00:10
giving her to say that you are
00:10
valid, and that I want you to be
00:13
present in my life right now.
00:16  Melissa Bright
Welcome to The
00:16
Bright Side of Life, a podcast
00:19
where people share their
00:19
personal stories of struggles,
00:22
pain and grief. But through all
00:22
of that, they are still able to
00:25
find the joys in life.
00:45
Hello, hello, everyone, and
00:45
welcome to this week's episode
00:49
of the bright side of life. I'm
00:49
your host, Melissa Bright. And
00:53
today we have a very, very
00:53
exciting guest on here. I'm
00:56
excited because I feel like he
00:56
has such a unique perspective on
01:02
just on what he's doing. And we
01:02
have today, we have Chef kibi
01:08
cooking with kibby. And what he
01:08
does is he helps foster adoptive
01:13
parents connect with their kids
01:13
through the shared act of
01:17
cooking and eating together.
01:17
Now, before we really get to
01:21
that, we're going to kind of
01:21
break down how everything kind
01:26
of came together because this
01:26
is, I think, a new adventure, or
01:30
at least you know, in the last
01:30
year or so. So I kind of want to
01:33
just put it all together.
01:33
Carrie, welcome to the show. How
01:38
are you doing today?
01:39  Kibby
I'm doing great, Melissa,
01:39
I'm so glad that we finally get
01:42
an opportunity to connect. I
01:42
feel like we've chatted, you
01:45
know, slid into DMS for a while
01:45
and I think we initially hooked
01:48
up on clubhouse a few months
01:48
ago. So I'm glad that we finally
01:50
have an opportunity to sit down
01:50
virtually face to face and have
01:54
this conversation. So thanks for
01:54
having me.
01:56  Melissa Bright
Yes, absolutely.
01:56
Okay, so we're just gonna get
01:59
right into it. And I like I
01:59
said, I'm gonna break kind of
02:02
things down into a couple ways.
02:02
So you are a personal chef. Is
02:07
that correct? Right.
02:08  Kibby
I am a professional chef.
02:08
I've been in the foodservice
02:12
industry for over 25 years, that
02:12
role in the industry has taken
02:16
on different perspectives over
02:16
the years, everything from a
02:21
chef in restaurants to having my
02:21
own catering business to now
02:25
also being a culinary instructor
02:25
for a community college here in
02:30
Central Ohio. So it's looked a
02:30
little bit different over the
02:34
years. But suffice it to say I
02:34
consider myself a professional
02:37
chef.
02:39  Melissa Bright
Yes, that is
02:39
awesome. And that's kind of how
02:41
everything has has came
02:41
together. So you've been cooking
02:44
for over 25 years, which by the
02:44
way, you don't look old enough
02:48
to be cooking for 25 years
02:48
unless you started cooking. When
02:51
you were like five making
02:51
hotdogs and macaroni and cheese.
02:54  Kibby
No, I used to wear my
02:54
college ring to prove to people
02:56
I was out of high school. So I
02:56
appreciate that. Yeah.
03:00  Melissa Bright
Can you kind of
03:00
tell me how you got into even
03:04
cooking and what what made you
03:04
fall in love with with the art
03:07
of cooking? Well,
03:09  Kibby
that's an interesting
03:09
story in and of itself, because
03:11
I actually grew up a very picky
03:11
eater. I mean, I grew up in
03:15
small town, Ohio, my parents
03:15
were really weren't all that big
03:19
into food and cooking. It was
03:19
just kind of a necessity. It's
03:22
something you do, they would
03:22
take me to the local pizza
03:25
place. And I would eat the crew
03:25
times off the salad bar. I was
03:28
that picky of an eater. And so
03:28
it's kind of interesting the
03:31
things that happened in my life,
03:31
just getting me to that point
03:34
where I fell in love with food
03:34
and cooking. And a couple of
03:39
things I can point back to that
03:39
took place. One of them was when
03:42
I was about 16 years old, I went
03:42
on a short term trip to Japan,
03:47
my small town here in Ohio had a
03:47
sister city. And so I had the
03:51
opportunity to travel to Japan
03:51
to to see some of the historical
03:56
sites and then stay with host
03:56
families for about seven days.
04:00
And I looking back, Melissa, I
04:00
really not sure why it is I
04:04
decided to do that. But I'm glad
04:04
that I did because it took me
04:07
out of not only my cultural
04:07
comfort zone, but also my my
04:11
food comfort zone, although I
04:11
did have McDonald's while I was
04:14
there. And it's tasted strangely
04:14
exactly the same as it does here
04:19
in the States. So whatever
04:19
they're doing, they've they've
04:21
got it down. They got it down.
04:21
Yeah. But then later on just a
04:25
few. A couple years later, I
04:25
left the small town and went to
04:28
the big city of Columbus, Ohio
04:28
to begin my studies at The Ohio
04:33
State University. And for those
04:33
people who aren't familiar with
04:36
Columbus, and just think it's a
04:36
big small town in the Midwest,
04:39
it's actually a really, it's a
04:39
very diverse city and has a
04:45
diverse selection of cultures
04:45
and nationalities and viewpoints
04:49
and perspectives. And that is
04:49
very much represented in the
04:53
food. And so when I came to
04:53
Columbus, I became aware of and
04:58
was able to to consume and enjoy
04:58
foods from so many different
05:02
cultures, I mean, everything
05:02
from Lebanese to Thai to Korean,
05:08
Ethiopian, you name it. And so
05:08
when you put those two things
05:13
together, all of a sudden, I
05:13
discovered this new kind of
05:16
passion and excitement about
05:16
food and cooking, because I was
05:19
cooking for myself for the first
05:19
time. And then the meantime also
05:23
working in food service just as
05:23
a job as something to make money
05:27
while I was studying. And after
05:27
college, I went into mortgage
05:31
sales for about a year and I
05:31
absolutely hated it. And I fell
05:34
back into food service. And
05:34
quite frankly, I never left.
05:38  Melissa Bright
That is awesome.
05:38
And yeah, I feel like everybody
05:43
should probably work in like the
05:43
food industry at some capacity,
05:46
whether you're a server, your
05:46
back of the house, you're a
05:49
bartender, something you really
05:49
get some amazing skills from
05:53
people skills to learning how to
05:53
cook, too. I mean, I worked in
05:57
the restaurant industry for
05:57
several several years, and just
06:00
everything that you learn is
06:00
incredible.
06:03  Kibby
Being in hospitality,
06:03
hospitality is all about
06:06
serving, it's all about putting
06:06
the needs of others before
06:09
yourself. And so especially in a
06:09
culture where we're very
06:12
divided, it was in the food
06:12
service industry that I first
06:15
began to realize and appreciate
06:15
the connecting power of food,
06:20
not necessarily cooking at that
06:20
point. But just food is
06:23
something that brings everybody
06:23
together, it is a language that
06:26
we all speak it is a need that
06:26
we all have. And so it's a way
06:30
that we can embrace one another
06:30
respect each other, and and feed
06:35
each other not only physically,
06:35
but also from an emotional and
06:38
connection standpoint. And so
06:38
that's why I feel like this
06:41
beginning of the journey really
06:41
happened. But it wasn't until
06:45
some events later on in life
06:45
where the picture started to
06:49
come into a more clear focus.
06:51  Melissa Bright
And it's so
06:51
important to point out of like
06:53
how important food is in our
06:53
culture and bringing us together
06:57
a lot of celebration, think of
06:57
everything that we do Fourth of
07:00
July, Christmas Thanksgivings
07:00
everything is about that, that
07:04
big meal, and you get to have it
07:04
with friends, family, whoever
07:08
you're eating with. And the
07:08
center is is around food,
07:11
obviously, there's like other
07:11
ideas around it, but you know
07:14
that you're going to have a meal
07:14
with it. So we're going to kind
07:17
of switch gears a little bit
07:17
because we've we've talked about
07:20
how cooking has, you know,
07:20
became part of your life and
07:23
everything like that. But now we
07:23
have another aspect of your
07:27
life. Have you are a foster
07:27
parent? And I kind of want to
07:32
hear the story of that. And what
07:32
made you make the decision that
07:37
you wanted to be a foster
07:37
parent? Was that something that
07:41
you had to decide? Or was it
07:41
kind of? Yeah, I'm gonna let you
07:45
answer that.
07:46  Kibby
Sure. It's a great
07:46
question. And a lot of people
07:49
have a hard time kind of framing
07:49
that question because not
07:51
everybody is fully familiar with
07:51
what foster care is and how it
07:55
works. Which is why I actually
07:55
recently on my podcast, went
07:59
through a short series of kind
07:59
of some some answering some
08:02
popular questions, some common
08:02
questions around foster care and
08:06
how it works. So if you want to
08:06
learn more about that, be sure
08:10
to check out the the short
08:10
series I did back in in May,
08:14
which is National foster care
08:14
Awareness Month. But to answer
08:17
your question, how we got
08:17
involved, my wife and I got
08:20
involved in foster care.
08:20
inviting other children into our
08:24
home and into our family was a
08:24
conversation that began during
08:28
our engagement process. It was
08:28
something that had always been
08:32
on our hearts. To that that was
08:32
going to be how our family was
08:35
going to look that was deeply
08:35
rooted in my wife's experience
08:39
growing up, she was a missionary
08:39
kid and part of her experience
08:43
overseas. She spent many years
08:43
in Spain, but also some time
08:47
down in Venezuela. And down in
08:47
Venezuela, she saw firsthand the
08:53
the effect of children who did
08:53
not have stable housing, they
08:57
did not have attachments to
08:57
primary caregivers. There. It's
09:02
not very widely known that
09:02
because it's not very widely
09:05
publicized a number of street
09:05
children there are in Central
09:09
America, and specifically in
09:09
countries like Venezuela. And so
09:12
that was something that an
09:12
experience that really affected
09:15
her emotionally, that she knew
09:15
that someday when she was going
09:18
to have a family of her own,
09:18
that adopting and bringing in
09:23
children from outside of her
09:23
home, or outside of her, you
09:26
know, blood relation was
09:26
something that was important to
09:30
her. And I was fully on board
09:30
with that and wanted to honor
09:33
that, after we began to start
09:33
having our own family looked
09:39
into different options with with
09:39
regards to adoption, and decided
09:43
that we weren't in a financial
09:43
place at that time to adopt. And
09:49
so in the meantime, we would go
09:49
through the process of becoming
09:52
foster parents, which I want to
09:52
be clear going into fostering
09:56
with the intent of adopting
09:56
children. They can set you up
10:01
for a little bit of a, an
10:01
improper expectation because
10:05
children are in the foster care
10:05
system not to be adopted, but to
10:10
be cared for. It's a
10:10
stewardship. While they are
10:13
awaiting a permanency plan, many
10:13
of those children do get
10:17
reunited with their biological
10:17
parents. And when that is
10:21
possible, that is a that is the
10:21
best outcome. That's not always
10:25
the best outcome for every
10:25
child. And that's not up for the
10:28
foster parents to determine
10:28
that's for, you know, the legal
10:32
team and children, Child Welfare
10:32
Services, to make that
10:35
determination. Just want to, you
10:35
know, put that caveat in just so
10:40
that the you know, there's a lot
10:40
of people out there that have
10:43
breed sensitivities when it
10:43
comes to foster and adoption.
10:47
Suffice it to say we got
10:47
licensed to be foster parents,
10:51
as a way of kind of guiding us
10:51
into that process with the
10:55
potential of perhaps adopting a
10:55
child or two at some point. And
11:00
and right off the bat, we knew
11:00
that we were in in over our
11:05
heads, because I don't know that
11:05
anyone is fully prepared for
11:09
what foster care brings children
11:09
from hard places, as much as you
11:16
love them and care for them and
11:16
support them. It it takes
11:20
something a little bit different
11:20
because children from hard
11:23
places as the late Karen Purvis
11:23
often described them, bring with
11:27
them trauma, and trauma disrupts
11:27
it disrupts so much of their,
11:34
their mental states and their
11:34
mental health and well being.
11:38
And what I've come to learn as
11:38
I've progressed in my own
11:42
personal knowledge and
11:42
understanding of things like
11:45
interpersonal neurobiology, and
11:45
brain chemistry, and things of
11:48
that nature, which, you know, we
11:48
can go into a whole other
11:52
podcast episode on that could,
11:52
is that what trauma does to the
11:57
brain, it inhibits their ability
11:57
to form healthy attachments with
12:02
their caregivers, no matter how
12:02
loving and compassionate and how
12:06
much you pour yourself out to
12:06
them. It takes a certain kind of
12:12
mentality and framework to be
12:12
able to look past all of these,
12:16
what we would see as negative or
12:16
maladaptive or unhealthy
12:19
behaviors, and to see the needs
12:19
that they're trying to express
12:23
behind them. We didn't fully
12:23
understand that at first, and we
12:27
had to, we went through a lot of
12:27
hardship, which I'm sure a lot
12:30
of your audience who have gone
12:30
through foster care and
12:33
adoption, can empathize with
12:33
that experience. It's it's been
12:38
a hard road.
12:39  Melissa Bright
Oh, my goodness,
12:39
I like so excited even more for
12:42
our conversation just because of
12:42
how much you know about all
12:45
this. So you and I had had a
12:45
conversation about a month ago
12:49
on clubhouse because I myself
12:49
was a little bit uninformed
12:54
about the difference between
12:54
adoption and foster parents, I
12:59
really was I kind of thought
12:59
that they were one in the same.
13:03
Never really put much thought to
13:03
it. So if there's anybody else
13:08
out there that might be like me,
13:08
that doesn't really understand
13:11
what foster parents are. I know
13:11
you kind of gave a little bit
13:13
description. But can you explain
13:13
the biggest difference between
13:17
what adoption is and fostering
13:17
and like I said, everybody else
13:20
in the world might know, but I
13:20
really didn't think about it too
13:23
much.
13:25  Kibby
Honestly, there are
13:25
aspects of foster care that when
13:28
my wife and I began training, we
13:28
didn't know. I mean, one of the
13:32
things I will admit, one of the
13:32
first things that we did, when
13:35
we went to our first foster
13:35
parent training, I was asked how
13:37
much it costs, and everybody in
13:37
the room just kind of turned
13:40
around and looked at us and
13:40
like, what do you mean costs,
13:44
you're, you're gonna get paid
13:44
for this. And we're like, why.
13:49
And so just to take a step back
13:49
foster care. As a foster
13:53
caregiver, you are licensed
13:53
through a either a private or
13:57
public agency to provide care
13:57
for a child who has been
14:02
separated from their parents. So
14:02
child welfare systems, whatever
14:06
nomenclature is used in your
14:06
particular county has seen a
14:11
potential danger or neglect or
14:11
abuse for that child or for that
14:15
sibling group, and have decided
14:15
that it was necessary to remove
14:19
the child or children from that
14:19
home, in order to go through a
14:25
process of allowing the
14:25
biological family to demonstrate
14:29
that they can then provide a
14:29
safe and healthy home for that
14:34
child. Now, that doesn't mean
14:34
that this was the first call. It
14:37
doesn't mean that, you know, it
14:37
could be one call, it could be
14:40
two, it could be 30 times before
14:40
a child is actually removed. But
14:45
for whatever the circumstances
14:45
may be, that child was removed
14:49
from their home, in order to
14:49
determine what needs to happen
14:53
to demonstrate that that child
14:53
can or should be brought back
14:59
into their home. In that interim
14:59
process, the child needs to be
15:03
cared for their basic needs the
15:03
food, and clothing and
15:08
education, and mental health,
15:08
all those things need to be
15:11
cared for. And what most of our
15:11
country here in the States has
15:15
moved to rather than placing
15:15
children into foster facilities
15:20
like group homes, it they have
15:20
found it more beneficial to give
15:25
children a more, for lack of
15:25
better terms, a normal living
15:29
experience with a family. Now,
15:29
that doesn't necessarily mean a
15:33
mom and a dad that the foster
15:33
families and foster caregivers
15:37
look very diverse in many
15:37
different ways. The difference
15:43
between that and adoption is a
15:43
child who is being adopted, has
15:47
had, there's been a severing of
15:47
the parental rights, whether
15:53
that be voluntarily we're a
15:53
family or a mother gives that
15:57
child up for adoption, or
15:57
through the foster care process
16:02
in which Child Services and the
16:02
courts have determined this
16:05
child cannot be placed,
16:05
reunified with their biological
16:10
family and need to be in
16:10
indifferent. A family situation
16:15
whether it be kinship, you know
16:15
another member of the family,
16:18
like a you know, brother or
16:18
sister or cousin or grandparents
16:22
or with a loss a licensed
16:22
parent, whether it be a foster
16:27
parent or adoptive. And so
16:27
that's kind of the difference
16:31
foster care. The best way I can
16:31
describe it is stewardship.
16:35
You're stewarding these
16:35
children, you are caring for
16:38
them while they wait for a plan
16:38
of permanency while as with
16:41
adoption. That is the permanency
16:41
plan.
16:44  Melissa Bright
Okay, gosh, you
16:44
explain this. So Well, that
16:47
makes 100% sense so great with
16:47
with fostering, is there foster
16:55
parenting is there ever. I know
16:55
the end goal, you said is
16:58
usually to go back with their
16:58
biological parents. But if in
17:01
fact that that cannot be the
17:01
case that they don't ever get to
17:05
the point where they can go back
17:05
there, then is the option
17:10
adoption. That just rhymed? Is
17:10
that what they would do? In any
17:13
cases? Yes,
17:14  Kibby
in many cases, that is
17:14
the case. And that has been the
17:16
case for us. We have we have had
17:16
children placed in our home,
17:21
where the courts eventually
17:21
decided that permanent custody
17:25
with from the biological parents
17:25
would be would be severed and
17:29
removed. And that custody would
17:29
be taken by the state at which
17:32
point the child would be made
17:32
available to adoption. Now that
17:36
doesn't necessarily mean that
17:36
the foster parents would adopt
17:39
them. There is that is, in most
17:39
cases, what can happen. It's
17:44
really up to the the foster
17:44
parents to say, Yes, we want to
17:47
keep this child in our home to
17:47
give them permanency. And so
17:52
there's a whole there's another
17:52
kind of stage in the process
17:55
that has to take place a whole
17:55
kind of a an application
17:58
process, if you will, similar to
17:58
a standard kind of
18:02
straightforward adoption.
18:03  Melissa Bright
Okay. Does that
18:03
make sense? That makes great
18:06
sense. Thank you. So how many
18:06
kids? Have you fostered? Is that
18:12
the right way? I think we've had
18:12
13 different placements. Okay.
18:17
13 different placements and
18:17
adoption. Have you adopted? We
18:23
have adopted one so far? Yes.
18:23
Amazing. So and how long have
18:27
you you said over the years? How
18:27
long has it been since you
18:31
fostered your first child?
18:34  Kibby
Let's see, I believe we
18:34
started this process, probably
18:37
about I'll say about 10 years
18:37
ago was when we first started
18:43
our trainings and became
18:43
licensed. So it's been about a
18:46
10 year process, and placements
18:46
can last 24 hours. They can
18:51
last, you know, two or three
18:51
years there. It's there's no
18:55
kind of set answer for how long
18:55
a foster placement will last. It
18:59
really depends on the case and
18:59
the court system. And it can be
19:05
a very unpredictable process,
19:05
which in and of itself can
19:08
create a whole level of
19:08
secondary trauma for the
19:13
caregivers for other children in
19:13
the home, whether they be
19:18
biological or other foster
19:18
placements or even children
19:21
you've adopted out of foster
19:21
care, there's a level of
19:24
secondary trauma that can take
19:24
place as a result of that
19:28
process. And I think, again,
19:28
that can be a whole other
19:30
episode as well, because I think
19:30
that's something that a lot of
19:34
people feel uncomfortable
19:34
talking about because in some
19:37
way to talk about the the
19:37
negative results on the foster
19:41
family could be interpreted as
19:41
painting a less than rosy
19:48
picture around foster care and
19:48
we want to be encouraging
19:51
families to take part in in
19:51
foster care because it is very,
19:56
very important and there are
19:56
foster families that are needed.
20:00
No matter where you live,
20:01  Melissa Bright
right, am I able
20:01
to ask that question? Because I
20:05
know, when we talked last time,
20:05
you know, you said placement can
20:09
happen for 24 hours, it can
20:09
happen for two or three years.
20:13
If you have somebody that has
20:13
been living with you that you
20:16
have formed a relationship a
20:16
bond with has, you have loved
20:20
them as your own. And then they,
20:20
they have to leave, like, that's
20:26
not your choice. That's kind of
20:26
what you sign up for fostering.
20:29
Um, can you kind of talk I mean,
20:29
that really takes a really,
20:34
really strong person to to know,
20:34
like, yeah, there is a potential
20:39
that I could always be giving up
20:39
this child, I know my role. But
20:43
that doesn't mean you're
20:43
acclimated every time like,
20:48
okay, I knew my role here. They
20:48
gotta go now. So can you kind of
20:52
talk about like you said it has
20:52
it can have effects on the the
20:56
caregivers. So what kind of
20:56
effects has it had, you know, on
21:02
you? If that's an okay question
21:02
like you and your family. And I
21:06
don't want to talk about the
21:06
negatives because but this isn't
21:09
a negative. This is kind of just
21:09
the reality of it, and something
21:12
that people should consider if
21:12
they are considering fostering.
21:18  Kibby
I think the most
21:18
important thing to consider if
21:21
someone in your audience is
21:21
currently currently in the
21:25
process of being a foster
21:25
parent, or getting licensed to
21:28
be a foster parent, or is
21:28
considering foster parenting,
21:31
the best thing you can do, and
21:31
this is what we've had to learn
21:34
the hard way, is, again,
21:34
understanding trauma,
21:39
understanding what trauma is
21:39
what it does to the brain, what
21:43
it does, to the child's ability
21:43
to form healthy attachments with
21:48
their caregivers, how it affects
21:48
their perception of the way you
21:52
were trying to parent them. And
21:52
because that reframes
21:57
everything, it reframes when
21:57
when reunification takes place,
22:03
because I think a lot of us in
22:03
the foster care space, we feel,
22:10
again, inhibited to talk about
22:10
those, that the hardship that
22:15
takes place when reunification
22:15
takes place. It's natural, it is
22:21
healthy. It is, it is
22:21
biological, for us when a child
22:27
is living with us, and we are
22:27
caring for their needs, and
22:30
we're in relation with them, to
22:30
feel an attachment to them. And
22:35
for them neurologically to have
22:35
a connection to us. I mean, this
22:40
is what science is telling us
22:40
about the brain is telling us
22:44
that not only are we learning
22:44
things from our primary
22:49
caregivers, we are learning who
22:49
we are through their eyes. And
22:54
so whatever we could see as them
22:54
being able to regulate
22:57
themselves and regulate their
22:57
own emotions, is actually an
23:00
internalization of me and my
23:00
wife, and, and their siblings,
23:07
everything happens in
23:07
relationship. And when that
23:10
relationship is sever, or the
23:10
relationship a child has with
23:13
their foster caregivers, it is
23:13
completely natural and healthy,
23:18
for there to be a pain. Because
23:18
there is a there is a disruption
23:22
that took place. And, you know,
23:22
like it or not, there are a lot
23:27
of studies out there that have
23:27
also shown that a disruption in
23:31
foster care so that a child can
23:31
be reunified with their
23:35
biological family can still have
23:35
some negative mental health
23:39
consequences down the road. And
23:39
I think the system needs to have
23:44
a holistic perspective on that.
23:44
Yes, there needs to be support
23:49
for the biological families
23:49
during the process of
23:53
discovering whether or not
23:53
reunification can take place,
23:57
but also afterwards, both for
23:57
the foster family and for the
24:01
biological family to be able to
24:01
deal in a healthy and
24:04
constructive way. The the
24:04
natural consequences of that
24:09
transition that takes place.
24:11  Melissa Bright
Yeah. Are you
24:11
able to? Do you have
24:16
communication, say, child gets
24:16
re unified? Is that that's the
24:21
right is that the right word?
24:21
We're unified with their
24:24
biological parent? Are you able
24:24
to have a relationship with that
24:29
those biological parents, like
24:29
if it's, let's say local, or is
24:34
that something that's not really
24:34
a thing?
24:38  Kibby
It is a thing, not in all
24:38
cases. Again, every case is
24:42
different. Sometimes it depends
24:42
on the jurisdiction. Sometimes
24:45
it depends on the biological
24:45
family because every unification
24:50
has taken place, then then the
24:50
foster parents really aren't
24:54
involved anymore and they don't
24:54
have the biological parents
24:58
don't really owe it Anything to
24:58
the foster family, you know, the
25:03
foster family is working for the
25:03
county to care for the child's
25:07
needs. And so they don't
25:07
necessarily owe anything whether
25:11
or not that that feels good to
25:11
hear that from a foster
25:15
caregiver. That's kind of the
25:15
reality of this situation. And,
25:21
again, that's something that we
25:21
you sign up for in you accept,
25:25
because it is about the parents
25:25
rights, and it's also about
25:31
what's in the child's best
25:31
interest. And that's where
25:33
things can get kind of fuzzy and
25:33
gray and uncomfortable, and
25:37
where we need to be having
25:37
honest discussions about this
25:41
from every stage, because any
25:41
system, I mean, any system,
25:45
whether it be governmental
25:45
agencies or organizations,
25:48
they're all they're all based on
25:48
people and people trying to make
25:52
rules and decisions based on the
25:52
best information that they have
25:56
and their own personal
25:56
perspectives and biases. And
25:59
they're not always going to get
25:59
it right and not everyone's
26:01
going to be happy with the
26:01
outcome. That doesn't mean that
26:04
there isn't room for for changes
26:04
and improvements to be made. I
26:10
can't improve everything about
26:10
the foster care system, whether
26:13
locally or nationally. But I'm
26:13
trying the best I can with the
26:17
platform that I have, and
26:17
specifically with my mentality
26:22
around food and cooking, to be
26:22
able to empower as many people
26:26
to with whatever time that they
26:26
have with these children,
26:30
whether foster or adoptive to
26:30
give them a healthy experience,
26:36
and to be able to work past the
26:36
effects of trauma to create the
26:40
connection and attachment that's
26:40
necessary for them to be as
26:43
healthy and resilient as
26:43
possible. Yeah.
26:46  Melissa Bright
So let's start
26:46
let's start talking about the
26:49
trauma because I feel like this
26:49
is definitely newer, I feel that
26:56
a lot of people might have not
26:56
be not know what really trauma
27:01
is they might not even realize
27:01
that they have themselves
27:03
experienced trauma. They think
27:03
the only traumatic events that
27:07
could happen with somebody going
27:07
off to war. I've talked about
27:09
this several times. So the first
27:09
question would be what is
27:14
trauma? And then the second part
27:14
of that question is, how did you
27:19
come to realize, and really
27:19
start to understand you as a
27:26
foster parent was really about
27:26
to start dealing with kids that
27:32
have had trauma, like hands
27:32
down, that's what they've been
27:35
experiencing. Thank you to
27:35
better help for sponsoring this
27:39
podcast. I have been using
27:39
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27:43
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27:43
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27:46
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The link will also be in the
29:01
description section of this
29:01
episode.
29:04  Kibby
I am a chef and a dad, I
29:04
am not a I am not a licensed
29:11
clinician or an expert in
29:11
interpersonal neurobiology or
29:14
brain chemistry. But I have read
29:14
a lot of books and I've taken
29:17
some trainings and I've listened
29:17
to a lot of podcasts. And
29:20
there's some great podcasts out
29:20
there from people who are
29:24
licensed clinicians and are
29:24
providing very specific
29:27
information about trauma and
29:27
trauma informed care. So I'm
29:31
sure we can probably throw some
29:31
of those in the show notes not
29:34
to throw anything your way. to
29:34
that. But to my my best
29:39
description of trauma is a
29:39
disruption in the brain. It's a
29:44
it's a physical disruption in
29:44
the brain. A lot of times when
29:47
we think of trauma, we think of
29:47
like a car accident where the
29:51
you know, the head kind of gets
29:51
knocked around or maybe you know
29:54
football injury or something
29:54
like that, that can be traumatic
29:58
in the same way that Have a
29:58
child who was removed from their
30:01
home, it can be traumatic, or a
30:01
young person who for for weeks
30:08
or months or even years have not
30:08
had their basic needs met, as
30:12
far as being shown love being
30:12
fed regularly. Being in close
30:18
contact with other children,
30:18
there's a lot of different ways
30:23
that neglect and abuse can come
30:23
about. So it's not always just
30:26
kind of a, a flash in the pan
30:26
specific moment where trauma can
30:32
happen. There's such a thing as
30:32
complex trauma, which has kind
30:36
of this snowball effect of
30:36
little things that the result is
30:41
always the same. The result is
30:41
that inside a person's brain,
30:46
there is a disruption or an
30:46
inhibit a inhibition for what we
30:53
would consider to be normal
30:53
neural pathways to be created.
30:57
And what that does, it creates
30:57
fear. It creates anxiety, it
31:03
creates worry, at a very chronic
31:03
level, we take for granted those
31:09
of us who have had healthy
31:09
upbringings and healthy
31:11
attachments, that we can trust
31:11
other people that I can trust my
31:15
wife that I can trust my parents
31:15
that I can trust, that when I
31:20
hit the gas on the car, that
31:20
it's going to move in this
31:23
direction, there's so many
31:23
things that are built on trust.
31:26
And that trust is based on these
31:26
neural pathways that have been
31:29
made in our minds over and over
31:29
and over again, these kind of
31:33
ruts in the road that we have
31:33
made, that allow us to live kind
31:37
of calm, and know that certain
31:37
things are true. Trauma disrupts
31:42
that from happening. And the
31:42
effect of that is just chronic
31:47
levels of anxiety and worry and
31:47
frustration that especially for
31:51
young people is very hard
31:51
because they don't have the the
31:56
textual and emotional maturity
31:56
to be able to express that. And
32:02
even even I am still coming to
32:02
grips with being able to express
32:06
that for myself. So what happens
32:06
if you have tantrums? You have
32:11
outbursts? Yep, you have
32:11
negative behaviors, and some of
32:17
which can be very unpredictable.
32:17
And that I believe, I firmly
32:22
believe is why so many people go
32:22
into foster and adoptive
32:27
parenting and leave beyond that
32:27
they didn't fully understand
32:32
what trauma does to these
32:32
children going into the process?
32:37
Does that make sense? Or kind of
32:37
follow up questions?
32:41  Melissa Bright
Is that makes
32:41
100% sense. I have recently read
32:45
the book. Have you read the
32:45
book? What happened to you? By
32:48
Dr. Bruce Perry and Oprah
32:48
Winfrey? No, I have it. It's
32:52
amazing. So Dr. Bruce Perry is a
32:52
neurological science doctor,
32:58
something I'm gonna butcher that
32:58
but it just came out a month
33:01
ago. And it is literally
33:01
everything that you were talking
33:04
about, about the pathways in the
33:04
brain. And the crazy thing that
33:08
I discovered in the book is the
33:08
most times like, if you are two
33:15
months old, and you are not
33:15
getting proper care you're being
33:18
neglected, can have more
33:18
traumatic effects on you. Then,
33:24
a 12 year old saying they only
33:24
experienced trauma for or they
33:29
experienced trauma for like two
33:29
years, somebody that is two
33:32
months old that only experienced
33:32
it, let's say for a month can be
33:36
can they grow up complete, I
33:36
don't want to say completely
33:40
different. But it can have much
33:40
more of an effect because of the
33:43
brain. And this is all the stuff
33:43
that that book talks about. And
33:47
something else I wanted to
33:47
mention is his trauma
33:51
experiences are different for
33:51
everybody. And in this book,
33:54
they gave a really, really good
33:54
example of what that means. So
33:59
if you think about a school
33:59
that's on fire, okay, you're
34:03
going to have certain amount of
34:03
people involved, you're going to
34:06
have the firefighters that are
34:06
involved, you're going to have
34:09
the people that were witnessing
34:09
that the fire was really close
34:12
to them, maybe perhaps even in
34:12
their classroom. It was in a
34:14
kindergarten classroom, let's
34:14
say. And then the sixth grader
34:17
down the hall that just hears a
34:17
fire alarm. So every single one
34:21
of those people are going to
34:21
experience this differently. A
34:25
little kindergartner who sees
34:25
huge flames coming up in his
34:29
classroom that are 15 feet high,
34:29
is going to be scared that
34:33
something's going to happen to
34:33
them. Where the firefighter This
34:38
is his everyday job. He's like,
34:38
okay, they're flames. I'm going
34:41
to go put him out. That's not a
34:41
traumatic experience for him.
34:44
For the sixth grader down the
34:44
hall that just heard the fire
34:47
alarm but doesn't really He's
34:47
like, okay, like, I just had to
34:50
go outside. He's not gonna
34:50
experience as much trauma as
34:54
that little kindergartner. So
34:54
when the outside people are
34:57
like, Oh, well, what's That
34:57
wasn't that big of a deal. There
35:01
was just a little fire in the
35:01
kindergarten classroom. You
35:05
weren't that little
35:05
kindergartener that was three
35:07
feet tall that seeing these huge
35:07
flames, that it's a different
35:11
experience. And that's what I
35:11
feel like. People need to
35:15
understand about trauma, it is
35:15
how the person the individual
35:18
experience themselves, because
35:18
you might not think that that's
35:22
a traumatic experience when it
35:22
absolutely was for that person.
35:26
And that's really important to
35:26
comment on.
35:29  Kibby
There's a lot of truth in
35:29
that. And I think when you begin
35:32
to understand that, then you
35:32
realize that when your natural
35:36
reaction to someone who has
35:36
experienced something, that when
35:41
you react and say, oh, it wasn't
35:41
that bad, that's not really
35:44
healthy, that's not helping them
35:44
to move past it. Because a lot
35:50
of what trauma does, and a lot
35:50
of what our body does, and our
35:55
brain does in reaction to events
35:55
that have triggered something,
35:59
is this trigger is actually
35:59
taking us from our, our more
36:04
logical parts of our brain up in
36:04
the prefrontal cortex, the more
36:07
complex parts of our brains
36:07
where we can think logically and
36:10
moving us down into the lower
36:10
parts of our brain, you know,
36:14
the, what they call the
36:14
polyvagal. ladder, you're going
36:17
into your fight and flight and
36:17
freeze mode. And so much of that
36:21
is not done intentionally. It is
36:21
done, just based on your body's
36:26
sense of attachment and
36:26
awareness to what's going on
36:29
around you. Yeah. And when we
36:29
begin to understand that, and I
36:34
think, Dr. Dan Siegel's work,
36:34
and Tina Payne Bryson with the
36:38
whole brain child and the yes
36:38
brain have done some great work
36:42
and helping me to understand
36:42
that, that there's kind of this
36:46
spectrum within a child's mind
36:46
of how much they can handle
36:50
emotionally, before they become
36:50
triggered and get sent into
36:54
these lower parts of their brain
36:54
where they are kind of losing
36:58
logical control over things. And
36:58
we're relying more on their
37:02
innate kind of gut reactions to
37:02
things and then you can't judge
37:09
them for for gut reactions, we
37:09
have to be able to move, help
37:13
them work past it, so they can
37:13
get back into a sense of
37:17
regulation.
37:19  Melissa Bright
Yeah, and two
37:19
things I want to make sure I
37:22
don't forget to talk about is
37:22
regulation. And then the other
37:25
thing is these these behaviors
37:25
and these things that you're
37:27
talking about. So often, kids
37:27
are late, I don't want to say
37:35
labeled, but kind of labeled for
37:35
the way that they're acting or
37:39
they might have they say they
37:39
have ADHD, or they have
37:42
behavioral problems, or Johnny
37:42
just doesn't listen in class, or
37:46
he's disruptive or whatever it
37:46
is. There is more than likely
37:51
something going on, like, like
37:51
trauma going on with them. And
37:57
but people because they don't
37:57
know and they're not informed.
38:01
They just think oh, Johnny's
38:01
just disruptive, he's just a
38:04
little, for lack of better word
38:04
shit starter or something.
38:07
That's not it, there is
38:07
something has happened to him.
38:11
Recently, when he was two months
38:11
old, whatever, that that this is
38:15
the way he's acting. He might
38:15
not even he more than likely
38:19
doesn't understand why he's
38:19
acting this way himself. But he
38:22
doesn't know how to verbalize
38:22
that. I'm telling you, you got
38:27
to read this book kibby. It's
38:27
amazing. It explains all these
38:30
things. And this doctor would,
38:30
you know, often do these things
38:34
with him, he found a guy, a kid
38:34
that had was acting out in
38:40
school a lot, but only with this
38:40
one male teacher and he could
38:43
not understand why, like over
38:43
and over, he kept getting in
38:46
trouble. The male teacher would
38:46
come over to him he'd get really
38:50
uncomfortable. Through having
38:50
conversations with this kid, he
38:53
found out that this teacher was
38:53
wearing the same cologne that
38:58
his abusive father wore. And the
38:58
kid didn't even understand he
39:03
did not make that correlation at
39:03
all. So if he doesn't even
39:07
understand how is anybody else
39:07
and through that the doctor the
39:11
conversation, that's what he
39:11
realized. So it could be things
39:15
like that. And I just think
39:15
that's so important to point out
39:18
to really think about when you
39:18
see a kid acting out or with
39:22
these behavioral issues. It can
39:22
be something much deeper than
39:27
them just wanting to to act out
39:27
or
39:32  Kibby
be able to put on these x
39:32
ray goggles as Robin Goble on
39:37
her podcast, parenting after
39:37
trauma, she often describes
39:40
this, being able to put on X ray
39:40
goggles and look past behavior
39:44
and to see the needs behind the
39:44
behavior. It takes work. It
39:48
takes effort, it takes
39:48
discipline. And honestly it
39:52
takes some vulnerability because
39:52
it's a lot easier to put the
39:55
blame on the child and to say
39:55
that they have a condition that
39:59
needs to be medicated, it's a
39:59
lot harder to look past it, and
40:04
to see what work needs to be
40:04
done to help them frame their
40:09
mind in a more healthy fashion.
40:09
And, you know, in a way that
40:14
that may seem a little unfair to
40:14
be able to put that on, you
40:17
know, on schools and caseworkers
40:17
and things of that nature. And
40:22
it may be it's a result of kind
40:22
of the way things are in our
40:27
culture right now that more
40:27
children than ever before are
40:30
being affected by trauma, that
40:30
it's almost becoming a epidemic
40:36
in and of itself, right. And it
40:36
is hard. And we all have to bond
40:41
together parents, educators,
40:41
people in the mental health
40:45
space, to reform all of our
40:45
mentalities around how these
40:50
children are growing up their,
40:50
their level of healthy
40:54
attachment, and what those
40:54
attachment styles look like. So
40:58
that we can begin to do the hard
40:58
work of reframing their minds so
41:03
that they can be of good mental
41:03
health and resilience, and to
41:09
thrive independently in society.
41:09
And it's, it's gonna be a
41:12
process, but I am so grateful
41:12
that there are people like you
41:16
and others in the space that are
41:16
that are talking about it and
41:21
normalizing it, so that we can
41:21
we can start seeing some
41:26
progress.
41:27  Melissa Bright
Yeah,
41:27
absolutely. Before we get into
41:29
talking all about your your
41:29
cooking show and your your
41:33
podcast, I want to ask you, can
41:33
you kind of explain what
41:37
regulate means for people. It's
41:37
something that I am, I mean, it
41:42
sounds obvious, but some people
41:42
might not truly understand what
41:45
that means. And I just recently
41:45
learned like, how important
41:49
being regulated means not even
41:49
just for little kids, that means
41:53
for us adults to there, there
41:53
needs to be regulation. So can
41:57
you kind of explain that
41:59  Kibby
regulation is the ability
41:59
to kind of stay calm and focused
42:03
and be making decisions out of
42:03
our logical part of our brain,
42:08
rather than being kind of sent
42:08
into these these areas of our
42:13
brain and in our body, where
42:13
we're not making decisions very
42:17
clearly. Now, there are some
42:17
cases when having those kind of
42:22
instinctual reactions are
42:22
completely necessary. You know,
42:25
when a ball rolls in front of
42:25
your car, you immediately you're
42:30
you're sent into this, this
42:30
place where, you know, it's a
42:34
gut reaction, it's instinctual.
42:34
And so those are very healthy
42:37
things. But sometimes it can be
42:37
very unhealthy, for example,
42:40
when a child is is having a
42:40
tantrum, and you're not fully
42:46
attuned to what's going on in
42:46
that moment, you personally
42:50
could be sent into this flight
42:50
fight or freeze area in yourself
42:55
flight, meaning, I gotta get out
42:55
of here, I can't handle this,
42:59
somebody else take care of it,
42:59
fight being arguing, yelling,
43:04
blaming, shaming, go to your
43:04
room, you know, going even
43:08
further than that, or freeze,
43:08
just kind of being in this kind
43:11
of panic mode of just kind of
43:11
watching it happen in front of
43:14
you and saying, I really don't
43:14
know what to do here. And I can
43:18
personally say I've been through
43:18
all three of those stages at
43:21
various times of my life, or
43:21
perhaps various parts of this
43:25
morning. We all have different
43:25
levels in which we can kind of
43:32
stay level headed, and our
43:32
attunement with ourselves in our
43:36
own emotions. And that can
43:36
fluctuate throughout the day.
43:40
It's affected by our metabolism,
43:40
it's affected by our sleep. And
43:44
it's affected by the other
43:44
interactions we've had with
43:47
people throughout the day, that
43:47
can affect our attunement with
43:51
our own state of regulation and
43:51
how we can offer that regulation
43:55
to our children. So it's, it's
43:55
really complex, it can seem
44:01
complex from the get go. But
44:01
once you begin to, to understand
44:06
that language, you begin to see
44:06
it in yourself. And I think
44:09
that's been the turning point
44:09
for me is when I've begun to see
44:13
it in myself. That's when I can
44:13
begin to offer something better
44:18
to my children, because for a
44:18
long time, I think I'm with a
44:22
lot of parents, who see children
44:22
who are acting out and acting
44:27
out of their trauma, and kind
44:27
of, in a way, blaming them and
44:32
saying, well, I've been
44:32
consistent with the way I've
44:34
parented you. I've been
44:34
consistent with the expectations
44:37
I've had for you. Why don't you
44:37
get it? Yep. And this whole
44:42
time, it's about I'm not the one
44:42
who's been getting it.
44:46  Melissa Bright
Yeah. Yep,
44:46
exactly. Oh, my gosh. And, you
44:50
know, it takes a lot of time to
44:50
learn all this stuff like now
44:53
just at the age of 35. And being
44:53
on my mental health journey for
44:57
the last year. I've learned so
44:57
much about myself. And, you
45:02
know, there's a lot of stuff
45:02
that I probably did wrong with
45:05
raising my daughter. She's a
45:05
wonderful child. But there was a
45:09
lot of stuff that now looking
45:09
back on how I was raised, I know
45:13
wasn't the right thing. Some
45:13
stuff was obvious, like I've
45:16
talked about before, I really
45:16
wasn't good with patients. And
45:20
that's something that I wanted
45:20
to kind of talk to you about.
45:23
Because the easiest thing I can
45:23
remember is like, anytime I was
45:28
cooking with my daughter, and
45:28
she didn't get it, or she didn't
45:30
know how to do something, I
45:30
would lose my patience. Like,
45:33
how does she not know? Like, why
45:33
does she doesn't she understand
45:36
this? When now looking back? I'm
45:36
like, why would she know how to
45:39
cut this? She's never cut an
45:39
apple in her life ever before?
45:43
Why would she just know how to
45:43
pick up a knife and cut an
45:45
apple, Melissa. But it's kind of
45:45
noticing yourself to then be
45:51
able to empathize with with your
45:51
with your children, because
45:55
that's been the biggest thing
45:55
for me is now that I understand
45:58
myself and my trauma, it's so
45:58
much easier to look back at how
46:03
I raised my daughter things I
46:03
want to do differently. Now even
46:06
though she is grown. That
46:06
doesn't mean I still can't
46:09
change, you know, my parenting
46:09
habits. But now Okay, now we're
46:13
going to switch gears. Now we're
46:13
going to talk all about cooking
46:16
with kibby. So I want to hear so
46:16
basically, you have a podcast
46:23
called cooking with kibby. And
46:23
it is all where you want to
46:27
teach parents how to connect
46:27
with their kids to the art of
46:29
cooking. How did this whole idea
46:29
come about that you wanted to
46:34
have a podcast to kind of mesh
46:34
both things together of mental
46:41
health. And also with your
46:41
cooking background.
46:45  Kibby
It didn't start that way.
46:45
I had started a podcast cooking
46:48
with kibby began several years
46:48
ago, just out of an
46:53
understanding that I am I'm
46:53
somebody that is good at putting
46:57
on presentations and
46:57
demonstrations, I love to share
47:00
my passion with food and
47:00
cooking. And so this goes back
47:03
several years to back when, you
47:03
know, back in BC, before COVID
47:08
when I still had a catering
47:08
business, and I was doing
47:12
cooking demonstrations at the
47:12
farmers market. And I was doing
47:15
hands on kitchen sessions where
47:15
groups of people would be
47:18
cooking and eating together, you
47:18
know, back in the good old days.
47:21
Yeah. And and so cooking with
47:21
kibby began as just an outgrowth
47:26
of my passion for food and wine
47:26
to share that with other people.
47:30
But that has evolved over the
47:30
years, and I would say even now
47:33
is evolving to the point where
47:33
there's probably going to be
47:37
another transition happening in
47:37
the very near future. But we'll
47:40
we'll get to that.
47:42
So COVID happened March of last
47:42
year, catering kind of
47:46
disappeared. overnight. Yeah,
47:46
eating together, and large
47:51
groups of people disappeared. So
47:51
the catering business folded
47:56
Event Center where we were
47:56
hosting events and holding
47:59
kitchen sessions, we we had to
47:59
leave and sell off equipment and
48:06
all that good stuff. And I was
48:06
thrown into a state of trauma
48:10
personally. Because as the as a
48:10
chef and as a guy, I really
48:16
attached a lot of what I do
48:16
professionally to my own self
48:19
worth. And honestly to my
48:19
ability to say that I am a chef
48:24
like that, that was validation
48:24
of me being able to even say
48:28
that I'm Chef kibby. And so that
48:28
was a really hard transition to
48:35
go through. And so I retreated
48:35
back home, to my home kitchen
48:41
where I felt safe. And where I
48:41
felt like I had some control
48:44
over my life that was my place
48:44
of comfort and control in this
48:48
out of control experience that I
48:48
was undergoing. And it was in
48:52
that process of getting into the
48:52
kitchen that I began to share
48:57
more time with with my kiddos in
48:57
the kitchen, which I had wanted
49:00
to do for a long time and
49:00
perhaps my professional pursuits
49:05
sometimes got in the way of
49:05
doing that as a caterer trying
49:09
to make help other people to be
49:09
present for the people that
49:12
matter to them oftentimes meant
49:12
I wasn't as present for my own
49:17
family. So that in a sense was a
49:17
blessing in disguise, but also
49:22
at that same time again, being
49:22
at home more being present more
49:26
being more tuned to what was
49:26
going on in my life. I I reached
49:30
a point Melissa where I could no
49:30
longer kind of sweep it under
49:33
the rug, that that things were
49:33
hard in our family and that to
49:39
expect my wife to be able to
49:39
handle all of this on her own
49:43
from an emotional standpoint was
49:43
unfair. And I knew that I had to
49:47
kind of come off the sidelines
49:47
come off the bench and begin to
49:51
take a more active role in
49:51
helping my family and helping my
49:56
my biological foster and
49:56
adoptive children to to Have a
50:00
healthier life to have the fruit
50:00
of the Spirit, you know, these,
50:03
the these signs, these symbols
50:03
that we had all around our house
50:07
reminding us of the kind of life
50:07
that we want to have in Christ,
50:10
and not experiencing that. And
50:10
that's when I began to do the
50:14
research and starting to get the
50:14
books and listening to the
50:17
podcasts and doing the
50:17
trainings. And I would say the
50:21
thing that really began, that
50:21
process was learning about tbri,
50:25
which if you don't know about
50:25
it, it is trust based relational
50:28
intervention, I'll send you all
50:28
the information so you can get
50:32
more they have their own podcast
50:32
as well. But tbri is a is a
50:37
methodology and a framework that
50:37
absolutely changed our family's
50:41
life, we have a tbri
50:41
practitioner, who is our family
50:45
counselor who works with us on a
50:45
regular basis, we have a group
50:48
coaching with her as well. And
50:48
it's a framework that helped us
50:53
to understand trauma fully for
50:53
the first time. And that's what
50:57
really got me down this rabbit
50:57
trail of understanding trauma
51:01
and finding these other people,
51:01
these other voices in the space.
51:05
And so I kind of had these two
51:05
parallel things happening
51:08
simultaneously, learning more
51:08
and seeing more of the
51:12
connecting power of the kitchen,
51:12
and then also understanding
51:15
trauma. And all of that kind of
51:15
came together in a moment. And I
51:19
mean, a single moment that I can
51:19
point back to very vividly and I
51:24
am so blessed, I actually have a
51:24
picture of this moment of when I
51:28
had a child, one of my foster
51:28
adoptive children come up to me
51:32
and asked me if she could chop
51:32
vegetable scraps with me in the
51:37
kitchen, like the waste products
51:37
of what I was doing for food
51:42
prep that evening. Yeah. Any
51:42
other time, I might have said
51:47
no, for a multitude of reasons.
51:47
Like that's, that's a waste of
51:52
time is just going to the
51:52
chickens, it doesn't matter.
51:55
It's going to be a distraction,
51:55
I need to focus, yada, yada,
51:59
yada, yada. But the attunement
51:59
had begun to take place in me,
52:05
God began to speak these things
52:05
into my heart. And I started to
52:08
internalize it to the point
52:08
where at that moment, I said,
52:10
Sure, kiddo, let's put on an
52:10
apron, let's get you a cutting
52:13
board, let's get you a knife
52:13
that is appropriate for your
52:16
level of skill. And let's do it.
52:20
And it was, it was the changing
52:20
point in my relationship with
52:26
myself and with my children and
52:26
with cooking to understand the
52:30
connecting power that takes
52:30
place that in that moment, it
52:34
wasn't about the chicken scraps,
52:34
it wasn't about her creating the
52:38
salad that later on that
52:38
evening, we were just going to
52:40
toss in the yard for the
52:40
chickens to eat. It was the
52:42
connection, it was the modeling.
52:42
It was the it was the attachment
52:49
that was coming about as a part
52:49
of that process. It was the yes
52:52
that I was giving her to say
52:52
that you are valid, and that I
52:56
want you to be present in my
52:56
life right now. And that is the
53:00
power that I want to give to
53:00
everybody who is listening right
53:03
now. And the great thing about
53:03
that example, Melissa, is that I
53:08
didn't have to teach her
53:08
anything fancy from a culinary
53:11
standpoint, in order to make
53:11
that happen. You don't have to
53:14
be a certified chef, or a
53:14
culinary instructor or YouTuber,
53:17
or any of those things, in order
53:17
to take what you have in your
53:21
kitchen, and what experience you
53:21
have had in your life, to be
53:26
able to create opportunities
53:26
like that, or to make yourself
53:29
available to your children
53:29
through the shared act of
53:33
cooking, and eating together to
53:33
begin to form those new, more
53:38
healthy neural pathways in your
53:38
child to know that they are
53:41
safe, that they are loved, that
53:41
they are valuable, that they are
53:44
worthy, and that they are
53:44
capable of doing things. And
53:49
that's the whole centerpiece
53:49
behind what I am now
53:52
transitioning to and creating in
53:52
what I'm calling cooking is
53:56
connecting, which is probably
53:56
going to be the name of a new
53:59
podcast that should be coming
53:59
out soon. And is the name of my
54:03
framework that I'm creating as
54:03
something that I can actually
54:07
offer to not only families, but
54:07
also to train others in the
54:11
mental health space to help
54:11
their clients to take advantage
54:15
of this connecting pattern of
54:15
power, no matter what your skill
54:19
level is in the kitchen.
54:19
Understanding of course, that if
54:22
you have a therapist or a family
54:22
that isn't very comfortable in
54:25
the kitchen, but they've bought
54:25
into this idea that I can come
54:30
alongside of them, whether it be
54:30
through online courses, like my
54:33
knife skills course, or through
54:33
group or one on one coaching to
54:37
be able to answer those
54:37
questions as well and to take
54:41
them through that process. You
54:41
know, kind of being able to wear
54:43
both hats. So that's kind of
54:43
where things are right now.
54:47  Melissa Bright
Oh my gosh, that
54:47
you just worded that So, so
54:52
beautifully. And it's just
54:52
incredible to think about and
54:56
like we all I don't want it's
54:56
just becoming a Where Of what?
55:01
What can happen. Like you said,
55:01
that moment was like probably
55:07
several other moments that she
55:07
might have came in and asked,
55:10
Hey, can I help you cut
55:10
something? And like you said,
55:13
you could have dismissed her but
55:13
something then God was telling,
55:18
you know, this moment needs to
55:18
happen. And it's crazy first,
55:23
because of the pandemic, the
55:23
pandemic really set people in
55:27
this total, like panic mode,
55:27
what am I going to do? We all
55:30
felt like we lost our identity.
55:30
It was a scary freakin time. But
55:35
something that I feel like you
55:35
and I both have in common,
55:38
because I started my podcast,
55:38
too, last year when I was super
55:41
depressed, and I felt like, what
55:41
is my purpose here on earth? You
55:45
know, I didn't feel like it was
55:45
selling travel. It got us
55:49
uncomfortable, it got us to ask
55:49
these questions, something bad
55:52
had to happen. So we could get
55:52
out of our comfort zones, which
55:56
is what we were doing before.
55:56
And we had to shift, we either
56:00
had to shift or we were going to
56:00
sink and we were going to be
56:02
depressed. And we were going to
56:02
whatever. And we might have done
56:05
that for a couple months. But
56:05
through everything we kind of
56:09
became aware experiences happen
56:09
for you, and you're like this,
56:14
this is what I'm gonna do this
56:14
is, and it's just beautiful. You
56:18
know, like, as much as last year
56:18
was such a curse for people. I'm
56:23
calling it a blessing. Because
56:23
if last year didn't happen,
56:26
would we be what we're where we
56:26
are now doing what we're doing?
56:30
I don't know. You know? And
56:30
that's, that's absolutely
56:33
beautiful.
56:35  Kibby
Thank you, yeah, you, you
56:35
don't wish a pandemic on anyone.
56:39
But to be able to, for lack of
56:39
better terms, look on the bright
56:43
side of life, to see what good
56:43
has come about as a result of it
56:48
is very rewarding and
56:48
meaningful. And, you know, it's
56:52
easy to kind of step back and
56:52
think, was it necessary? Would I
56:56
have gotten to this place
56:56
without it? I don't know. But
56:58
I'm glad that it happened. And
56:58
I'm glad for the transformation
57:01
that has taken place, and that I
57:01
do now have something that
57:05
brings me such encouragement and
57:05
affirmation. And like you said,
57:09
kind of a sense of feeling like
57:09
you know, your place in the
57:13
world, the voice that you have
57:13
the unique perspective that you
57:17
have, and how much it could
57:17
potentially help others to get
57:20
to that point in their lives?
57:22  Melissa Bright
Absolutely,
57:22
absolutely. So with your
57:25
cooking, do you mind if I ask
57:25
you like what? A couple simple
57:30
tasks that you could do with
57:30
your child in the kitchen,
57:34
child, children, however many
57:34
you want to do? Like what are
57:39
some simple things that you
57:39
could do to help set up whatever
57:43
if you're looking to I know
57:43
you're saying connecting, but if
57:46
you're looking to connect or
57:46
you're looking to, I know on
57:50
your podcast, there's stuff like
57:50
where you can set boundaries
57:53
where you can do respect. So you
57:53
want to pick one of those, like
57:56
whatever goal it is that you're
57:56
trying to achieve, and what kind
57:59
of cool things in the kitchen
57:59
can you do?
58:03  Kibby
Well, there, there's kind
58:03
of two different directions
58:05
where we can take this on. So
58:05
I'm going to take both of them
58:08
very quickly. First of all, if
58:08
you're looking for just simple
58:10
tasks, like actual kitchen tasks
58:10
to do, I have a list of YouTube
58:16
shorts that I've put out kind of
58:16
describing some different tasks
58:19
that you might be able to do.
58:19
And some of the benefits in
58:22
them. You know, things like just
58:22
scrubbing potatoes, or setting
58:25
the table or peeling carrots,
58:25
there's a lot of really simple
58:28
tasks depending on a child's
58:28
physical and mental abilities
58:32
that you can do to begin to take
58:32
advantage of that process.
58:36
Alternatively, there is the kind
58:36
of what I would say is even the
58:39
more important thing that needs
58:39
to take place for parents. And
58:42
that's seeing kind of the
58:42
developmental assets that we can
58:45
be giving our children through
58:45
the kitchen, and what activities
58:50
we can do to make that happen.
58:50
And that's kind of the framework
58:55
behind my cooking is connecting
58:55
the 20 Day Challenge, which is
58:58
an email challenge that your
58:58
listeners can sign up for. And
59:02
it's also the 20 activities that
59:02
I'm put together in my most
59:06
recent series on my podcast. So
59:06
I'm going through these 20
59:10
activities, which I personally
59:10
did not come up with. It's
59:13
actually a framework developed
59:13
by search Institute called the
59:16
developmental relationships
59:16
framework. And it's taking these
59:21
20 activities that through
59:21
research they have discovered,
59:25
are important for a child's
59:25
mental health and development
59:30
and resilience and putting them
59:30
in the context of the kitchen.
59:34
And so it's not necessarily what
59:34
what kitchen activity do I need
59:38
to do. As much as what is the
59:38
mindset I need to begin to form
59:43
in myself so that I can see the
59:43
kitchen in a different way.
59:47
That's what's happened to have.
59:47
That's what had to happen to me.
59:50
Not only getting rid of the
59:50
negative things like cooking
59:53
takes too long or it's hard,
59:53
right? Don't have time, right?
59:56
Don't have patience and also
59:56
actually putting a science Some
1:00:00
of the good things about it
1:00:00
like, it gives me personal
1:00:03
fulfillment, and it's something
1:00:03
I could do for my, my family and
1:00:07
for my kids, and instead looking
1:00:07
at through the lens of
1:00:10
connection, and I think that's
1:00:10
what my cooking is connecting
1:00:13
program that I'm putting
1:00:13
together will help parents to be
1:00:17
able to do, and so that they
1:00:17
will be able to see there's a
1:00:21
lot of things that they already
1:00:21
do and already know how to do
1:00:24
that they can begin to use that
1:00:24
for a different purpose. Yeah,
1:00:29  Melissa Bright
so I'm going to
1:00:29
ask this question, it might
1:00:31
throw you off a little bit, but
1:00:31
it's kind of the reality of
1:00:34
things. What if parents? Yeah,
1:00:34
okay, fair enough? Yeah. What if
1:00:38
parents don't have, they're just
1:00:38
saying, kibby, I don't, I don't
1:00:43
have time, I don't have time to
1:00:43
go in the kitchen to I just want
1:00:47
to get in and get out, I really
1:00:47
don't have time to do connecting
1:00:51
in the kitchen. Um, what kinds
1:00:51
of things is there simple things
1:00:54
they could make, that they could
1:00:54
do, that could really still
1:00:58
connect with their kids, even if
1:00:58
they don't have a lot of time.
1:01:02  Kibby
I would say to anyone who
1:01:02
tells me that they don't have
1:01:06
time to cook, I would say
1:01:06
they're wrong, I would say that
1:01:09
they're coming at it again, from
1:01:09
a frame of limiting belief. Now,
1:01:15
what I'm about to say is
1:01:15
probably going to trigger some
1:01:17
people. I'm not I'm not scared
1:01:17
to do that. Because it's what
1:01:21
needs to happen. If your child,
1:01:21
if you talk, if you brought your
1:01:25
child to a doctor, or to a
1:01:25
mental health professional, and
1:01:29
they said, your child has this
1:01:29
and in order to help them to
1:01:34
move past it, you need to do X,
1:01:34
Y, Z, would you? Would you shift
1:01:40
your would you shift your
1:01:40
priorities? Would you shift the
1:01:43
way you spend your time and your
1:01:43
resources in order to give that
1:01:46
child what they need? I think
1:01:46
most parents would say yes,
1:01:50
absolutely. I firmly believe
1:01:50
that if you want to heal your
1:01:55
child from from trauma and build
1:01:55
a deeper sense of connection,
1:02:00
that cooking cooperatively with
1:02:00
them on a regular basis, putting
1:02:04
these connecting activities into
1:02:04
practice, will create results in
1:02:10
your family. And we all have the
1:02:10
same amount of time every day.
1:02:14
It's just how we prioritize that
1:02:14
time how we create balance in
1:02:18
that time. And so it's not a
1:02:18
matter of having time, it's a
1:02:22
matter of how you're going to
1:02:22
make that time. And I can't
1:02:25
answer that for every family,
1:02:25
you know, every family has, as
1:02:28
different things going on. And
1:02:28
so it's a matter of not starting
1:02:32
from a from a place of what
1:02:32
recipe can I give you? It's how
1:02:36
can I help you to reframe the
1:02:36
kitchen and the benefit, the
1:02:42
power that it can give you as a
1:02:42
mother, as a father as a foster
1:02:47
adoptive caregiver, to be able
1:02:47
to create an environment where
1:02:51
that child can experience
1:02:51
healing? If you've bought into
1:02:54
that concept, then everything
1:02:54
else is just kind of falls into
1:02:58
place.
1:03:00  Melissa Bright
Yeah, that's
1:03:00
such a great answer. And it's
1:03:02
such a great answer. And the one
1:03:02
thing I mean, it might not be
1:03:06
able to happen every single day,
1:03:06
you know, people have sports and
1:03:10
all kinds of stuff. But even one
1:03:10
one day out of the week, and
1:03:13
I'll tell you, my boyfriend, so
1:03:13
he owns a painting business, and
1:03:18
he's extremely busy. And he's
1:03:18
out all the time. And he like
1:03:22
he's tired. So I'm doing most of
1:03:22
the cooking, which is
1:03:25
unfortunate because he is way
1:03:25
better cooker than I am. But
1:03:28
I've accepted it he he owns a
1:03:28
painting business. He can't do
1:03:30
it all. But when we do grill
1:03:30
when we're outside grilling
1:03:36
together, or we're making a meal
1:03:36
together, or whatever. I mean,
1:03:40
there was a time where we made
1:03:40
Beef Wellington that took I
1:03:43
swear to God, like four hours
1:03:43
because we did a whole elaborate
1:03:47
thing. It was a whole meal,
1:03:47
drank two bottles of wine, I
1:03:50
will never forget that meal. We
1:03:50
had so much fun making it, we
1:03:56
had no idea it was gonna take
1:03:56
four hours, but we were at our
1:03:58
kitchen for literally four
1:03:58
hours. And it We had so much
1:04:02
fun, literally to the point
1:04:02
where we asked his parents, Hey,
1:04:06
can we make this meal for our
1:04:06
Christmas dinner this year, like
1:04:09
we'd love to make it for you
1:04:09
guys and go and have two more
1:04:12
bottles of wine. But it's just,
1:04:12
I mean, how important it is to
1:04:17
even meet for like
1:04:17
relationships, adults to have
1:04:20
that cooking time with them.
1:04:20
Imagine what it can do for for
1:04:24
children that are really trying
1:04:24
to seek out anything from their
1:04:28
parents, you know, just that one
1:04:28
on one time and you got to cook
1:04:31
anyway. Why not? involve your
1:04:31
kids with it?
1:04:36  Kibby
Yeah, I think for too
1:04:36
long, we've overlooked the
1:04:38
relational aspect, not just a
1:04:38
food, which is again where I was
1:04:42
earlier on in my career, but the
1:04:42
actual process of cooking and
1:04:47
the power that that gives to us
1:04:47
as people and I think our
1:04:51
children realize it because I've
1:04:51
seen it time and time again. If
1:04:54
my child simply set the table or
1:04:54
you know, scrub the potatoes
1:05:00
Ito's they will take ownership
1:05:00
of the entire meal, they will
1:05:03
say, Oh, I helped. Yep, it is so
1:05:03
incredibly powerful. And again,
1:05:11
it's just something so simple
1:05:11
and so powerful. I don't know
1:05:14
what parent would not want to
1:05:14
have that as a part of their
1:05:18
their arsenal of tools in order
1:05:18
to give this child the the the
1:05:22
mental health and resilience
1:05:22
that we all really desire for
1:05:26
our train.
1:05:27  Melissa Bright
Right? Because
1:05:27
at the end of the day, boy, you
1:05:29
keep saying it's not about the
1:05:29
food that's on the table. It's
1:05:32
about everything that comes
1:05:32
other than the food, the
1:05:36
relationships. And just really
1:05:36
quickly, I'll never forget my
1:05:40
daughter's 19 now, but when she
1:05:40
was a little kid, my stepdad and
1:05:43
her made pancakes every single
1:05:43
Saturday morning, and they
1:05:48
always had this secret
1:05:48
ingredient. And nobody can know
1:05:50
what the secret ingredient was.
1:05:50
All it literally was, was a
1:05:54
little squirt of lime juice,
1:05:54
just so my daughter felt
1:05:56
important to be putting in this
1:05:56
secret ingredient. I mean, it
1:05:59
didn't make them taste any
1:05:59
different. But she got to go in
1:06:02
the fridge and she got to get it
1:06:02
out. And she got to put in the
1:06:05
secret ingredient that grandpa
1:06:05
letter, she still talks about
1:06:09
that to this day, and she's 19
1:06:09
years old. That's what she got
1:06:12
to do with her grandpa every
1:06:12
Saturday. Pancakes don't take
1:06:16
long to make it all. But she
1:06:16
loves it and she'll remember it
1:06:19
forever, you know.
1:06:22  Unknown
And that's what's the
1:06:22
other great thing about that is
1:06:24
it doesn't have to be even a
1:06:24
positive experience. It can be a
1:06:28
negative experience, you could
1:06:28
have something threw up in the
1:06:32
kitchen. But if you're doing it
1:06:32
from a lens of connection with
1:06:35
your child, it actually gives
1:06:35
you the opportunity to allow
1:06:39
them to empathize with you. I
1:06:39
mean, how often do I get an
1:06:42
opportunity to screw up in front
1:06:42
of my kids to model how I am
1:06:48
regulating myself or better yet
1:06:48
to give them an opportunity to
1:06:52
empathize with me and to help me
1:06:52
work things, the power that that
1:06:56
gives to us to give them those
1:06:56
coping skills and mechanisms and
1:07:01
ability to empathize with us as
1:07:01
their caregivers. I, I can't say
1:07:06
it enough, Melissa. It's just I
1:07:06
am so honored and so blessed
1:07:10
that I have come to this
1:07:10
realization, and that I have
1:07:13
platforms like yours to be able
1:07:13
to share that with other people.
1:07:17  Melissa Bright
I love it. I
1:07:17
love it. I love it. So really
1:07:20
quickly, what kind of things do
1:07:20
you cover on your podcast cookin
1:07:24
with kibby.
1:07:26  Kibby
Right now, as we're
1:07:26
recording this in the middle of
1:07:30
the summer time of 2021, I am in
1:07:30
the process of wrapping up this
1:07:35
20 part series on the cooking is
1:07:35
connecting framework. When that
1:07:40
framework comes to an end, there
1:07:40
is a good chance that I'm going
1:07:44
to be putting at least a pause
1:07:44
if not a complete halt on the
1:07:48
cooking with kibby podcast. And
1:07:48
moving into this new direction
1:07:53
of kind of fully embracing this
1:07:53
idea of cooking is connecting,
1:07:57
creating a podcast around that I
1:07:57
am creating a family workbook
1:08:03
that will take these activities
1:08:03
and practices into something
1:08:07
concrete an actual workbook that
1:08:07
can be either downloaded or at
1:08:11
some point hopefully purchased
1:08:11
as an actual book that parents
1:08:14
can use to say, you know, these
1:08:14
are the activities available to
1:08:18
us. Let's put it on the
1:08:18
calendar. This is what we're
1:08:20
going to do. This is the mindset
1:08:20
I want to have as we move into
1:08:24
this week of cooking and eating
1:08:24
together. And then from there,
1:08:28
creating a training that again,
1:08:28
I can give or offer to families,
1:08:33
to agencies to mental health
1:08:33
workers, to kind of help them to
1:08:38
frame their minds and their
1:08:38
approaches from a trauma therapy
1:08:43
standpoint, around the power of
1:08:43
connecting through the kitchen.
1:08:48
And I'm really excited. I'm
1:08:48
really excited about what the
1:08:51
future holds. And I'm so I'm so
1:08:51
blessed that there's so many
1:08:54
people that I'm speaking to on
1:08:54
podcasts like yourself and
1:08:58
others in the mental health
1:08:58
space that have offered me so
1:09:01
much encouragement in making
1:09:01
this transition and taking this
1:09:05
leap of faith and really putting
1:09:05
myself out there and stepping
1:09:09
into my into my truth if you
1:09:09
will. Yep and making this making
1:09:15
this framework making this
1:09:15
concept available to as many
1:09:18
people as possible. So at this
1:09:18
present time you can still find
1:09:21
me on all the socials and at
1:09:21
cookin with kibby calm. I'm sure
1:09:26
you'll leave a link in the show
1:09:26
notes. Yeah, but expect there to
1:09:29
be some changes along the way.
1:09:31  Melissa Bright
Awesome. And
1:09:31
then when those changes happen,
1:09:34
I will absolutely update the
1:09:34
show notes to go along with his
1:09:37
his new adventures that he'll be
1:09:37
doing with is it connecting his
1:09:42
cook no cooking is connect
1:09:42
cooking is connecting? Yes. And
1:09:45
so I'll make sure I update all
1:09:45
of those. But in the meantime,
1:09:49
where all Can people connect
1:09:49
with you. And then also I know
1:09:54
you mentioned is your 20 day
1:09:54
email thing is that available
1:09:58
yet
1:10:00  Kibby
Yes, it is available, you
1:10:00
can find it on my website
1:10:02
cooking with kibby. calm. That's
1:10:02
also where you'll find
1:10:05
information about my podcast, my
1:10:05
YouTube channel. Also have a one
1:10:10
online course that's available
1:10:10
for folks. It's called knife
1:10:13
skills for busy families. It's a
1:10:13
10 week course, one menu every
1:10:17
week videos that walk you
1:10:17
through the skills to make it
1:10:21
super easy to kind of
1:10:21
incorporate into your weekly
1:10:23
process of cooking and eating
1:10:23
together. And that's where you
1:10:27
can also sign up for my email
1:10:27
list so that you can be notified
1:10:29
when these transitions are
1:10:29
taking place. And of course, as
1:10:34
you already know, you can slide
1:10:34
into my DMS on Instagram.
1:10:37  Melissa Bright
Yes, and just
1:10:37
really quickly KB is spelled k i
1:10:40
BB y, just in case I don't know
1:10:40
if anybody thinks it might be
1:10:44
with the seat. But I just want
1:10:44
to make sure you if you have
1:10:47
trouble finding it, that's what
1:10:47
it is. I just have one last
1:10:51
question for you, kb. And I
1:10:51
asked all my guests this, what
1:10:56
does the bright side of life
1:10:56
mean to you?
1:10:59  Unknown
I think it's very
1:10:59
similar to what we talked about
1:11:01
with with trauma, it's being
1:11:01
able to look past what's
1:11:05
happening, and see the the
1:11:05
meaning and the purpose behind
1:11:10
it, the knees, the beard is
1:11:10
being expressed. And how we can
1:11:16
meet those needs more fully.
1:11:16
It's its attunement, seeing
1:11:20
things in perspective. And for
1:11:20
me personally, as someone who
1:11:24
has come to know and love and
1:11:24
accept the love that God has
1:11:30
given me, and the experience of
1:11:30
salvation through through Jesus,
1:11:35
it is living that out and seeing
1:11:35
life from that perspective, that
1:11:41
connection is something that was
1:11:41
intended from very beginning.
1:11:45
And suffice it to say that, my
1:11:45
my mindset around life is framed
1:11:52
by my relationship with with
1:11:52
God, and that that connecting
1:11:58
power that was knit into us and
1:11:58
into our minds, has, has really
1:12:04
informed everything that I do.
1:12:04
And I want to share that with my
1:12:08
family and with everyone with
1:12:08
whom I come in contact. And
1:12:12
understanding trauma has
1:12:12
actually given me a deeper faith
1:12:15
and a deeper ability to share
1:12:15
that love with others. And I'm
1:12:18
so grateful for that.