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Buzzcast is a roundtable discussion about podcasting from the people at Buzzsprout. We'll cover current events and news, podcast strategy, tools we are using, and dip into the Customer Support mailbag to test our podcasting knowledge. If you want to stay up-to-date on what's working in podcasting, Buzzcast is the show for you.

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episode 58: Podcast Movement 2021 Recap + Apple's Woes Continue [transcript]


In this episode, Kevin explains the new custom RSS tag feature inside of Buzzsprout, the crew recap the big news coming out of Podcast Movement (especially pertaining to a certain Mark Cuban-owned Clubhouse clone), and we talk about what all of Apple's problems mean for indie creators.

Links from this episode:

  • Check out Podcast Index
  • Alban's slides from his talk on podcast artwork and Apple's New & Noteworthy criteria
  • Submit your show for promotion consideration in Apple Podcasts
  • Check out our marketing series over at Podcasting Q&A
  • Apps that support the new podcast namespace


Review Buzzcast in Podchaser or Apple Podcasts to let us know what you think of the show.

Buzzsprout's Dynamic Content tool now allows you to save multiple clips in your Dynamic Content Library and track how many downloads each clip receives. Learn more on our New Features page.


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 2021-08-13  53m
 
 
00:00  Alban
iHeart had a huge
00:00
presence.
00:01  Travis
Number one Podcast
00:01
Network is that their marketing
00:05
slogan?
00:05  Alban
No, their actual
00:05
marketing slogan was number one
00:08
in podcasting. I'm not really
00:08
sure what that refers to their
00:12
number one, according to a lot
00:12
of the signs that I saw there.
00:16  Travis
Number one, they're
00:16
number one in our hearts.
00:23  Kevin
So, within the last
00:23
couple of weeks, we now have the
00:27
ability to do custom RSS tags in
00:27
any Buzzsprout produce feed. So
00:32
what why this is cool, is that
00:32
if you I mean, the biggest use
00:37
case the reason that we we did
00:37
it is because we're trying to
00:39
support all the podcasts,
00:39
namespace to Dotto stuff. And
00:43
so, are podcasting to Dotto with
00:43
the podcast namespace, confusing
00:46
long names,
00:47  Travis
they should really make
00:47
an acronym make it easier to
00:48
remember,
00:50  Kevin
one of the cool things
00:50
they're doing is they're they're
00:52
trying to be they are like way
00:52
ahead of the curve with being
00:57
able to support podcasters. And
00:57
one of the ways that they're
00:59
doing that is called value for
00:59
value. And it's it's using
01:02
cryptocurrencies to be able to
01:02
stream payments to many
01:06
different people who are
01:06
involved with the podcast,
01:08
whether it'd be the podcast or
01:08
the podcast, hosting company,
01:11
producers, anybody who works in
01:11
the show, you can set up your
01:14
value tags, so that all of them
01:14
get a small percentage of
01:18
whatever the listeners are
01:18
donating to that show. And it's
01:21
pretty cool. It's a little bit
01:21
too new and cutting edge for us
01:26
to build a big UI around it
01:26
right now. I hope that it
01:29
catches on enough that we will
01:29
be able to do that someday soon.
01:33
But we still wanted to support
01:33
it while it's still young in its
01:35
infancy, because the only way
01:35
this stuff grows is by more and
01:38
more people using it. So what we
01:38
did is we said let's set up all
01:41
of our feeds so that they can
01:41
take custom RSS tags,
01:43  Alban
guys, hey, who is this
01:43
for? It's for someone if your
01:46
Twitter profile photo has laser
01:46
eyes, this is for you if your
01:51
laser eyes? No, it's, I'm not
01:51
sure you're setting this up just
01:55
yet. It will there'll be a
01:55
couple more iterations before
01:59
the non laser eyes crowd get
01:59
access.
02:02  Travis
I mean, as soon as they
02:02
start trickling out Dogecoin as
02:05
a part of this value for value,
02:05
I'll be all over it, man those
02:08
to the moon. But until then,
02:08
what because what's the what's
02:12
the cryptocurrency? They're
02:12
they're currently using for this
02:15
value for value.
02:16  Alban
It's satoshis which is
02:16
just like a millionth of a
02:19
Bitcoin it is Bitcoin is really
02:19
tiny, tiny pieces
02:23  Travis
of Bitcoin. So it's like
02:23
you took $1 bill and cut it up
02:27
into a million pieces. And you
02:27
have like one little piece of
02:29
that dollar bill.
02:30  Kevin
Right? If your dollar
02:30
bill was worth $42,000, which is
02:34
what a Bitcoin is worth right
02:34
now. Sure. So I mean, that's
02:38
part of what's what's tough
02:38
about this stuff for the
02:40
everyday like non cryptocurrency
02:40
podcaster, his satoshis are hard
02:46
to wrap your head around, like
02:46
I'm like, if you set it up, so
02:48
I'm streaming 100 satoshis,
02:48
every minute I listened to how
02:52
much is how much am I giving
02:52
them? You know, am I giving
02:54
them? You know, if I listened to
02:54
an hour episode, did I give him
02:57
$1? Or did I give him $20? Like,
02:57
and so are two cents, or 20
03:03
cents, I don't know. And so that
03:03
complexity is taking a while for
03:07
everyone to work out. And so and
03:07
as it gets worked out, more and
03:10
more people will jump on board.
03:10
But right now, it's not super
03:13
popular, but it doesn't mean
03:13
that we don't believe in or we
03:15
don't want to support it. And so
03:15
that's why we did customer
03:17
service tax. So how do you get
03:17
set up for your podcasts if
03:20
you're interested, go to podcast
03:20
index.org search for your
03:23
podcast, and then click on the
03:23
title of your podcast. And then
03:25
when your podcasts like listing
03:25
is displayed on the podcast
03:28
index website, there'll be a
03:28
little lightning bolt icon. And
03:31
if you click on that little
03:31
lightning bolt icon next to your
03:33
podcast, you can go and claim
03:33
your podcast on the podcast or
03:36
wallet, walk through all the
03:36
steps is not super easy. It's
03:39
not for everyone. But if you get
03:39
through it, it'll give you some
03:42
code at the end. And that code
03:42
needs to go in your RSS feed,
03:44
you can email that to our
03:44
support team. We can now add it
03:47
to your feed. And for apps like
03:47
pod friend and I think hyper
03:52
hyper catcher, there's a few
03:52
others that support it. If
03:56
anybody listens there and has
03:56
donation set up for your
03:58
podcast, you can start getting
04:00  Alban
some crypto payments, but
04:00
I just want to correct myself
04:04
100 million satoshis equal a
04:04
Bitcoin. So okay, that'll become
04:09
more pertinent as we all move
04:09
towards a Bitcoin maximalist
04:13
world.
04:14  Travis
Hold on, I have a
04:14
calculator app on my computer.
04:16
Let's just do what 42,000 right
04:16
now for Bitcoin divided by 100
04:20
million. So he said correct.
04:20
123123. So it's just point 4% of
04:26
a penny. So, so if you get 1000
04:26
of them, then you would earn
04:35
four cents.
04:36  Kevin
Yeah. It's a little it's
04:36
a little complex, right? That's
04:40
what we're everyone's trying to
04:40
figure out how to make it less
04:42
complex. And the other thing
04:42
that adds complexity to this is
04:46
that the value of Bitcoin is
04:46
changing rapidly, right? Like
04:49
it's it's 42,000 or 44,000.
04:49
Today, it was $46,000.
04:52
Yesterday, it might be $20,000.
04:52
Tomorrow, who knows? And so you
04:56
might feel good that you just
04:56
sent somebody you know $1.50 Did
05:00
you listen to this great
05:00
episode, and you boosted it a
05:01
couple times, but then, you
05:01
know, tomorrow, it turns out
05:04
that you only getting 75 cents.
05:04
So
05:07  Alban
well, you always gave
05:07
them the same amount of Bitcoin.
05:09
So someday, when we all use the
05:09
lightning network to, you know,
05:14
buy stuff during the post
05:14
apocalyptic meltdown, then
05:18
you'll still have the satoshis
05:18
from your podcast,
05:21  Travis
you'll be able to
05:21
transfer them to the people that
05:23
were hoarding gold in their
05:23
their fireproof safe. So we
05:27
talked about the custom RSS
05:27
tags, and how they kind of
05:30
aligned with this future value
05:30
for value. cryptocurrency
05:35
sharing thing that we're setting
05:35
up, are there any other custom
05:39
RSS tags in particular, that if
05:39
you're a super tech savvy
05:44
podcaster, you might be
05:44
interested in adding onto your
05:47
feed.
05:48  Kevin
Right now, I'm not aware
05:48
of any other tags that that
05:53
people would want to use, like,
05:53
I don't know, a use case for
05:55
adding a whole bunch of other
05:55
tags. But the great thing is
05:58
that there's flexibility if if
05:58
something happens, so like, if
06:01
there's a new app that comes out
06:01
and they say, Oh, hey, if you
06:04
have this tag in your RSS feed
06:04
somewhere, we'll do this cool,
06:06
special thing with your podcast.
06:06
Now you can do that. As far as I
06:10
know, right now, there's not a
06:10
great use case for it. But it's
06:14
like future proofing. And it's
06:14
there if something pops up. So
06:19
right now, we designed it and
06:19
implemented it because we want
06:22
to support value for value. And
06:22
we want Buzzsprout podcasters,
06:25
who are interested in setting
06:25
that up, they have a way to do
06:27
that. And now we can. And going
06:27
forward, I hope that there's
06:31
there's more tags, and there's
06:31
more people who are using
06:33
specialized stuff or specialized
06:33
apps, that's the great thing
06:35
about working in an open
06:35
ecosystem where somebody can
06:38
come up with an app tomorrow,
06:38
and say, Hey, this would be
06:41
really cool. If podcasts had
06:41
this, they could submit to the
06:43
podcast namespace. It could get
06:43
adopted because people could
06:46
start using it, apps can start
06:46
using it. And we can add it into
06:50
your feed immediately without
06:50
having you without you having to
06:53
wait for us to build a big UI
06:53
around getting that tag into
06:56
your RSS feed.
07:00  Travis
Since the last time we
07:00
released a episode of Buzzcast
07:04
podcast movement 2021 happened
07:04
it was in Nashville, Tennessee
07:07
this year, we had a nice
07:07
contingent from our Buzzsprout
07:10
team there. We had a booth, it
07:10
was great to see a bunch of you.
07:13
So let's talk through what's
07:13
significant happened at podcast
07:17
movement, other than the fact
07:17
that a lot of people from
07:20
Buzzsprout got to actually give
07:20
keynotes and talks and
07:22
discussions and Alban and you're
07:22
going to share some tips from
07:25
one of yours later on. But were
07:25
there any high level
07:27
observations or things that you
07:27
took away from this particular
07:30
podcast movement?
07:32  Alban
Well, I mean, we're back.
07:32
The last conference that we went
07:35
to was very end of February,
07:35
March of 2020. And this is the
07:41
first conference that I've been
07:41
to anyone from Buzzsprout team
07:44
has been to since then, it was
07:44
good to see people in person. It
07:48
was, it's just a different vibe
07:48
when you're watching things at
07:52
home on a computer. You know,
07:52
these virtual conferences are
07:57
very different than when you're
07:57
in person. And so it was very
08:00
nice to be able to see people
08:00
face to face even if you
08:03
couldn't see their mouth moving
08:03
Charlemagne to God was there. I
08:06
saw
08:06  Travis
the I Heart Radio party.
08:06
Well,
08:09  Alban
I mean, I had a huge
08:09
presence. I had an incredible
08:13
presence
08:13  Travis
number one Podcast
08:13
Network is that their their
08:17
marketing slogan?
08:18  Alban
No, their actual
08:18
marketing slogan was number one
08:20
in podcasting. And I'm not
08:20
really sure what that refers to.
08:27
But um, you know, I don't know,
08:27
they are their number one,
08:31
according to a lot of the signs
08:31
that I saw there.
08:34  Travis
They're number one,
08:34
they're number one in our
08:35
hearts.
08:39  Alban
But like Mark, Mark Cuban
08:39
had a talk, there was just there
08:42
a lot of like, you know, it's
08:42
kind of the podcast movement,
08:45
they had some really big names,
08:45
but then you go to all the other
08:49
stages, and it's just tons of
08:49
podcasters, who have grown up in
08:55
the industry and are just
08:55
teaching, you know, what they
08:58
know about podcasting, and it
08:58
was pretty cool to be able to
09:02
get back to that and, you know,
09:02
learn more about this industry.
09:06  Kevin
I was only there for 24
09:06
hours. But I will say this that
09:10
Dan and Jared and the whole team
09:10
at podcast movement just did a
09:13
great job putting event an event
09:13
together. Under the
09:16
circumstances, like the first
09:16
big again, like Alban said
09:19
podcast event that we've been to
09:19
live in person since the whole
09:23
COVID outbreak. And I think they
09:23
just did, they just knocked it
09:28
out of the park. It was the
09:28
venue was huge, which really, I
09:34
think helped everybody space
09:34
out. So like, even though you go
09:37
to a room that could have held
09:37
maybe 1000 people, there was
09:42
about 250 300 people kind of in
09:42
that room. And I don't know how
09:46
much like logistical work went
09:46
into planning all of that and
09:49
making sure everybody was space,
09:49
but oh my gosh, I can imagine it
09:52
was a ton and they did a really
09:52
great job. The day I was there,
09:56
we had good traffic to our booth
09:56
like it was a steady stream but
09:59
it was not Can podcast
09:59
conferences in the past, there
10:02
would be hordes of people around
10:02
every table. Yeah. And it just
10:06
didn't feel like that there were
10:06
still a good number of people
10:09
there. But I think the
10:09
scheduling, and the room sizes
10:12
and the booth spacing, just I
10:12
mean, they just did a fantastic
10:16
job, they always put together
10:16
amazing events that are very
10:18
thoughtful and how they do
10:18
everything. But this year was
10:22
just a whole new set of
10:22
circumstances that they had to
10:24
think through. And they just did
10:24
a fantastic job of doing it,
10:27  Travis
were you guys able to go
10:27
to any talks other than ones
10:30
that you gave or participated
10:30
in?
10:32  Alban
So we, we had a lot of
10:32
people who are, you know, from
10:36
the Buzzsprout team, or
10:36
Buzzsprout, adjacent, you know,
10:38
we had a lot of the Buzzsprout
10:38
creators there. But, you know,
10:42
with with my role, I spent
10:42
almost all my time at the booth.
10:46
So I had to catch little pieces
10:46
of talks. I was hoping to be
10:50
there for the whole thing, but
10:50
got to see like clips of Tom
10:54
Webster's talk at the beginning,
10:54
I was able to like sneak into
10:56
the keynote room for a few
10:56
minutes to try to get to listen
11:00
to a bit. But unfortunately, the
11:00
only two talks that I saw the
11:04
whole way were the talks that I
11:04
gave. So I do wish that I you
11:09
know, if we had a bigger team,
11:09
and if less of the people who we
11:14
took were speaking, then I would
11:14
have been able to go to, you
11:17
know, more of the sessions.
11:19  Kevin
The one session that I
11:19
was able to watch was the
11:23
fireside introduction with Mark
11:23
Cuban. It was a it was kind of a
11:29
big deal. It was early morning,
11:29
Thursday, I think. I don't know,
11:32
unfortunately, I felt like my,
11:32
my takeaway was, I think the
11:36
whole thing fell a little flat.
11:36
Normally, keynotes are, I don't
11:43
know, I don't, I don't want to
11:43
sound like I'm negative or
11:46
coming down. Like I don't know
11:46
exactly what they were asked to
11:48
do, or the type of talk that
11:48
they were planning to give. But
11:53
they were it wasn't so much
11:53
adding value for the
11:55
participants, it was introducing
11:55
a new service. And so there
11:58
wasn't a whole lot of takeaways
11:58
in terms of Oh, like I could do
12:01
this, or here's a great idea for
12:01
my show, or this is how this
12:04
person built this audience. And
12:04
that's something that I could
12:06
maybe implement myself, it was
12:06
more like, here's what we're
12:09
doing. Here's why we're doing
12:09
it. It was it was a lot of
12:12
information. But I don't know
12:12
how much of it was practical to
12:15
the audience. So overall, I
12:15
think we're all excited. Because
12:19
you know, Mark Cuban is a, he's
12:19
a big name big celebrity, and
12:22
has done a lot of great stuff in
12:22
tech. And so we're interested to
12:25
see, you know, he's going to get
12:25
into podcasting in some way or
12:29
some form, and how is that going
12:29
to help us? Or how are we gonna
12:31
be able to use those tools? And
12:31
I don't know, that really
12:35
delivered on the hype, but it
12:35
might not have been their fault
12:38
or might not have been.
12:38
anybody's fault might just been,
12:41
you know, like, my my fault or
12:41
other people in the audience in
12:44
terms of our expectations were
12:44
off.
12:47  Alban
Well, I can tell you, I
12:47
mean, being at the booth that
12:50
day, I probably had four or five
12:50
different people. And I was
12:54
like, oh, what do you think
12:54
fireside? And I'm like, Yeah, I
12:56
just felt like an infomercial.
12:56
So I got like, three or four,
13:00
maybe even more than that, like
13:00
people who used that word
13:03
without me prompting it. Yeah.
13:03
And I was like, that's a bummer.
13:06
Because I guarantee that was not
13:06
what podcast movement invited,
13:12
like, hey, come and just do you
13:12
have a stage for 45 minutes to
13:15
market your thing? I'm sure they
13:15
wanted to be like, hey, come,
13:19
like tell how this is gonna help
13:19
podcasting. And there's some
13:23
phrases that, you know, people
13:23
relate, like, hey, podcasting
13:28
hasn't really changed in 15
13:28
years, but firesides gonna
13:32
change it. This is podcasting.
13:32
2.0. And it's like, there is a
13:36
podcasting. Dubois. Oh,
13:36
actually, it's this thing that
13:39
the open standards had pushing
13:39
for nearly two years now. So it
13:45
was a bit of like, marketing,
13:45
stuff that was like, hey, check
13:51
out why firesides gonna be the
13:51
next big thing. And instead of
13:56
like realizing you're in a room
13:56
with kind of speaking to most of
14:02
the, I mean, the most connected
14:02
people in podcasts and people
14:05
who are creating a lot of the
14:05
big shows people are building
14:08
the tech, the people who are
14:08
buying the ads, like it was a
14:11
lot. I mean, that's what podcast
14:11
movement is. It's bringing this
14:13
entire industry together. And it
14:13
stinks that part of Mark Cuban's
14:17
talk is kind of saying, Yeah,
14:17
you guys haven't really been
14:21
doing a whole lot. So my new
14:21
apps definitely solve that
14:24
problem.
14:25  Kevin
It was definitely a bit
14:25
of a no your audience problem.
14:28
Yeah. Right. Like, you can
14:28
absolutely criticize the podcast
14:33
industry at large. And there's
14:33
might be a place where that's
14:39
appropriate for you to express
14:39
your frustrations with how fast
14:41
things are moving and stuff. The
14:41
place to not do that is probably
14:45
a conference where people who
14:45
are really passionate and
14:47
excited about where podcasting
14:47
is and the movements that have
14:51
been happening over the past
14:51
couple years. And people who
14:53
love podcasting, like some of
14:53
the criticisms, I think that
14:55
they were saying some of the
14:55
criticisms that they were
14:59
throwing out about podcasting in
14:59
general. Some of the things that
15:02
make all of us who are in that
15:02
room love podcasting. Right. And
15:06
so I think it Yeah, in my mind
15:06
just been the wrong message for
15:12
that crowd.
15:13  Alban
It feels to me like we've
15:13
just heard this so many times
15:16
that it falls flat for me, like
15:16
the first podcast movement I
15:19
went to I remember everyone was
15:19
walking around with their
15:21
phones, recording, and they're
15:21
like, I'm live on Periscope.
15:25
People are like me, and this is
15:25
kind of kind of kill podcasting.
15:28
And then Spotify launched and
15:28
everyone's like, oh, they're
15:31
trying to own podcasting. This
15:31
is gonna kill it, and then
15:34
clubhouse, and then everyone's
15:34
like, there's gonna kill
15:36
podcasting, and then Twitter
15:36
spaces, and then this Facebook
15:40
thing that's kind of almost
15:40
barely launched. And now it's
15:43
clubhouse. And
15:45  Travis
you mean fireside?
15:46  Alban
Sorry, now it's fireside,
15:46
it's a clubhouse club called
15:49
fireside, all of it combined.
15:49
I'm just like, it's a lot of
15:53
centralized platforms that are
15:53
like, hey, if we owned this, and
15:58
we controlled it completely,
15:58
there would be some benefits
16:00
because there are benefits to a
16:00
single platform. But the obvious
16:07
downside, there's a lot of
16:07
obvious downsides. And they're
16:11
just focusing on Hey, the
16:11
positive would be, we could
16:13
recommend content, we could
16:13
really surface the best stuff,
16:17
we could broker relationships
16:17
with you to the best advertisers
16:21
if you had the best content. And
16:21
obviously, it's a very
16:25
attractive business model for a
16:25
platform because then they're
16:28
like, and we get to skim off a
16:28
bit of the revenue that this
16:31
thing generates, rather than it
16:31
being this open ecosystem. But
16:36
what they're missing is like,
16:36
there's people who have now been
16:38
podcasting for near 20 years,
16:38
the iTunes directory was 15
16:43
years ago, this has been going
16:43
on a long time. And there's a
16:47
lot of people who've been
16:47
working in this space. And each
16:51
one always kind of feels like,
16:51
Hey, we're we raised a bunch of
16:55
money. And now we're gonna come
16:55
because we see that you guys
16:57
have done something cool. And
16:57
we're gonna run over it, and
17:00
we're gonna build our own thing.
17:00
And I think it misses like what
17:04
makes podcasting different. It
17:04
is the guaranteed download, you
17:09
know that if people subscribe to
17:09
your podcast, they're going to
17:13
download it to their phone when
17:13
you release a new episode, high
17:16
bar bugs that we'll probably
17:16
talk about at the end of this
17:19
episode. But it is more akin to
17:19
email, that you feel confident
17:27
that there's not someone getting
17:27
in the way, like a Facebook or
17:31
Twitter saying, that wasn't
17:31
really the best tweet. So I'm
17:34
just gonna go ahead and not let
17:34
that out there. It's your
17:37
listener, or the person who sent
17:37
the email to deciding, hey, do I
17:42
really want to listen to this
17:42
episode? The last two have kind
17:44
of stunk, and or do I really
17:44
want to open this email, they
17:47
mostly send me a bunch of spam,
17:47
you want that that decision
17:51
point to be with the person
17:51
you've connected to, not with a
17:55
algorithm run by a platform. So
17:55
we keep getting this pitch over
17:59
and over? Like, what if we
17:59
centralized it? And oh, we would
18:02
be the really good landlord for
18:02
this whole industry. And they're
18:08
not really offering the most
18:08
compelling case. I mean, the
18:12
the, the fireside pitch is, hey,
18:12
it's going to be basically
18:16
clubhouse. It looks a lot, the
18:16
app itself looks a lot better. I
18:20
mean, it looks really pretty,
18:20
but it's like, okay, so it's
18:23
going to be a better clubhouse.
18:23
It's a destination to get to
18:26
listen to live video, or audio,
18:26
excuse me. And then they now
18:31
have a partnership where they
18:31
will distribute all of this as
18:35
podcasts later on. And I'm like,
18:35
well, no one's really using
18:39
clubhouse anymore. And if
18:39
clubhouse was so successful, why
18:43
wouldn't clubhouse build out
18:43
that podcasting piece? And so
18:48
they've got a few audience
18:48
engagement things that they're
18:51
working on, which, which sounds
18:51
kind of cool, but I'm like, why
18:54
would clubhouse build that out?
18:54
And I think we're seeing
18:59
clubhouse has really taken a
18:59
huge hit. Because, you know,
19:02
they're this format of audio,
19:02
live audio is was really
19:07
compelling. When everyone was
19:07
stuck at home for a year. It's a
19:11
little bit less compelling now
19:11
that people are starting to go
19:15
out and do things again. And
19:15
it's less compelling when you
19:19
it's been copied by everybody.
19:19
So especially by places like
19:24
Facebook and Twitter, where
19:24
they're basically copying it and
19:28
they already have your social
19:28
graph they already know who
19:30
wants to follow you and wants a
19:30
giant check with your
19:33
conversations. So as soon as
19:33
it's been copied in this places,
19:37
I don't see how clubhouse gets
19:37
everyone back. And I'm very
19:39
confused about how something
19:39
like fireside will be able to
19:44
say Actually, let's all do this
19:44
again. But do it with us because
19:48
we've got a couple extra
19:48
features. I don't think that
19:51
clubhouse is missing features. I
19:51
think clubhouse is missing the
19:56
followers and that connections
19:56
to people that you've already
19:58
built on Facebook. Instagram or
19:58
Twitter.
20:02  Travis
It's almost like they're
20:02
saying, Hey, we know you guys
20:05
have iPhones but we made this
20:05
fantastic. Am FM radio. And we
20:09
think you're gonna love it.
20:11  Alban
Like, I'm missing. I'm
20:11
missing the connection
20:14  Travis
They're gonna get li
20:14
e audio like, it's gonna be
20:17
mazing. It's gonna be the most b
20:17
autiful execution of an am FM ra
20:21
io ever it is the future of a
20:21
dio and you're thinking and
20:25
got an iPhone with Apple M
20:25
sic and Spotify on it. Why do I
20:27
Why do I care about your am
20:27
M radio over there? I guess
20:30
Listen, listen to stuff whenever
20:30
want to it's like, to your poin
20:34
Alban, it's like that model
20:34
of live audio. And then, oka
20:38
, cool. There's a new feature w
20:38
ere you can turn it into a podc
20:41
st, the number of completely
20:41
nedited unmixed podcasts that
20:47
re long form content with
20:47
lots of contributors that go
20:50
n to be successful or zero.
20:50
ike I'm trying to think of any
20:55
hat fit that bill that are l
20:55
ke, Oh, yeah, that's a rea
20:57
ly good podcast has leg
20:57
. Great following people love
21:02
it. And it's going to contin
21:02
e to do well, especially in 2
21:06
21. I'm just not se
21:07  Kevin
Let me say this. So I've
21:07
got a little bit of a rant that
21:09
I'm just running through my head
21:09
in terms of live stuff, right?
21:14
Live sounds cool. It sounds like
21:14
oh, that's, that's fantastic. I
21:18
can click a button, and I can be
21:18
live broadcast all over the
21:21
world. anybody anywhere can hear
21:21
me That sounds fantastic. And
21:23
lives kind of been a thing. It's
21:23
kind of come and gone on YouTube
21:26
a little bit. It's kind of come
21:26
and gone on Instagram and tic
21:30
tocs. Like they're all kind of
21:30
experimenting with it. Because I
21:32
think on the creator side, it's
21:32
attractive. It sounds fun. It
21:36
sounds easy. Like I'm just gonna
21:36
click a button. And I'm going
21:40
that I think the challenge in
21:40
that is that there's a very rare
21:44
talent that can actually pull
21:44
off live content that's engaging
21:49
in quality, high level content
21:49
on a consistent basis, like you
21:52
might get lucky. And in, click a
21:52
button and do a great 30 minute
21:56
episode, right live. And it was
21:56
fantastic. Being able to do that
22:00
on repeat every day, or every
22:00
week or every month, or however
22:03
often you do your show. That
22:03
requires a very, it's a it's a
22:07
rare breed. Who can do that,
22:07
right. And these are people like
22:10
we know the people that can do
22:10
it, people do the nightly cop
22:12
shows and the people who do you
22:12
know, Howard Stern's and the
22:17
real big professional
22:17
broadcasters of the world, they
22:20
do this and it feels a little
22:20
bit like something that the
22:23
everyday person can do. But it's
22:23
kind of like watching Olympians
22:26
do their thing like like when
22:26
you're performing at such a top
22:29
level, you're doing it so well
22:29
that it makes other people feel
22:31
like I could, I can maybe do
22:31
that too, because they make it
22:34
look so effortless. But it's not
22:34
effortless, is really hard. And
22:38
there's a lot of talent and
22:38
training and time and dedication
22:41
that goes into honing that
22:41
skill. The luxury that we have
22:44
as podcasters is that we're not
22:44
the best broadcasters in the
22:48
world. And so we can record like
22:48
today, we're probably record for
22:50
over an hour. And I bet this
22:50
episode at the end of the day is
22:53
probably gonna be 30 or 40
22:53
minutes, because Travis is going
22:54
to take all this and cut out all
22:54
the garbage and all the mix ups
22:57
and all the you know,
22:57
mispronounce words and, and make
23:00
it more engaging and more
23:00
compelling. So he like on the
23:04
editing side, you make up for a
23:04
lot of the imperfections and the
23:09
amateur hour stuff that happens
23:09
on podcasts. What happens when
23:14
you go live is that you don't
23:14
have that, right. So if you if
23:16
you get on a show with somebody
23:16
and you talk for three hours,
23:19
and it's all rambley. And there
23:19
might be 20 or 30 minutes of
23:21
really great engaging content
23:21
there. But it's it's missed
23:24
because it's hidden inside this
23:24
three hours of nonsense that
23:29
should be cut, and should be
23:29
edited. So I think that's the
23:34
problem that all these platforms
23:34
are going to have to battle is
23:38
that it's fun and exciting
23:38
upfront, but I don't know that
23:40
it has the staying power because
23:40
the staying power comes from
23:45
being a really good editor and
23:45
honing it down and tightening up
23:48
the show so that non
23:48
professional broadcasters can
23:51
sound more professional. There
23:51
are these rare breeds, like I
23:54
just watched I posted on Twitter
23:54
a couple days ago. There's a
23:57
YouTube video that hit somehow
23:57
it hit my for you the page or
24:01
whatever, on YouTube. The other
24:01
weekend I started listening to
24:03
is Elon musk. And he was doing a
24:03
tour of his starbase. Right?
24:08
where he's building all these
24:08
rockets. The audio was terrible.
24:11
It sounded awful because he's
24:11
walking around a construction
24:14
facility like there's trucks
24:14
beeping everywhere. There's
24:17
cranes lifting big heavy pieces.
24:17
A lot of times you could barely
24:21
understand what he was saying.
24:21
But he was dropping the I mean
24:24
super engaging knowledge, right,
24:24
not from how they run the
24:28
business to what they were
24:28
building and what makes sense to
24:31
put on a rocket and what doesn't
24:31
the objectives they were trying
24:33
to. And so I watched and
24:33
listened to the worst audio I've
24:37
heard in years for over an hour.
24:37
And so to like the video had 2.4
24:41
million plays or something
24:41
within the first couple days of
24:43
being published on YouTube. So
24:43
if you're Ilan Musk, if you are
24:50
someone that has, like a crazy
24:50
amount of information or
24:55
knowledge or something that
24:55
massive audiences is interested
24:58
in, can you get away with it?
24:58
You know, some rambley content,
25:01
some bad audio, some terrible
25:01
video? Yeah, you can absolutely
25:06
get away with all that. If
25:06
you're not an Elan musk if
25:09
you're not a Howard Stern, if
25:09
you're not, who are some other
25:13
like really great broadcasters,
25:13
think of your favorite
25:16
broadcaster, then I think what
25:16
you need to do is like what we
25:19
do on this show, we ramble for
25:19
an hour and a half, Travis cuts
25:22
it down to a really good 20 3040
25:22
minute episode. And we put out
25:26
our best stuff. That's what I
25:26
think is going to be workable
25:30
and sustainable for average
25:30
podcasters. So I'm not super
25:35
bullish on this fireside stuff.
25:35
I'm not super bullish on the
25:37
clubhouse stuff. Is it fun to
25:37
hop in there once a month? Yes,
25:39
but I don't think it's got legs
25:39
to have the staying power of
25:44
podcast
25:45  Travis
when it comes back to?
25:45
are you solving problems for the
25:49
creators want? And are those
25:49
problems overlapped with what
25:54
consumers want with listeners
25:54
and viewers wants? Right? Right?
25:57
Because you can say we're gonna
25:57
make it really easy for you to
25:58
go live and make an episode and
25:58
publish it. It's gonna be
26:00
awesome. You're thinking, Man,
26:00
that is so great. I just turned
26:04
my five hours of weekly work
26:04
into one hour. Sign me up. But
26:08
if none of your listeners want
26:08
that version of your show, is
26:11
that actually better? Yeah, I
26:13  Kevin
mean, it I think it
26:13
applies across all the different
26:15
mediums that are that are
26:15
working, like look at what's
26:18
happening on Instagram reels
26:18
Tick Tock YouTube shorts. So
26:22
these short term term short
26:22
form, what are they short,
26:26
short, short for? word I'm
26:26
looking for? Thank you guys.
26:29
Short Form video content. If
26:29
you've seen like, if any, I
26:33
don't know if y'all have any
26:33
teenagers in your house, but if
26:35
you don't, you probably have
26:35
seen the bloopers or outtakes or
26:38
something on these other things.
26:38
But like, in order to do a
26:41
little 32nd Tick Tock video,
26:41
these creators are setting up
26:45
and they're doing, you know,
26:45
hundreds of takes before they
26:47
get the exact facial expression
26:47
that they want. Or they get the
26:50
dance move that they nail it.
26:50
Like the idea of being able to
26:53
go live, do it the first time on
26:53
demand, like real time is so
26:58
low, like none of them would
26:58
ever have a following. This is a
27:00
commitment. It's a craft and
27:00
they practice and they get
27:02
better and they rely on editing
27:02
doesn't happen
27:04  Alban
live in what was being
27:04
brought by clubhouse. And in the
27:09
the audio space was serendipity.
27:09
It was the opportunity to
27:13
connect to somebody probably
27:13
wouldn't connect with normally.
27:17
And so the magical moments for a
27:17
lot of people are you go you
27:22
would go into a clubhouse room
27:22
talking about negotiations, and
27:25
all of a sudden Chris Voss the I
27:25
wrote, never don't split the
27:29
difference. But he shows up and
27:29
he's like talking to people and
27:33
you're like, Whoa, and then he
27:33
answers your question. You're
27:35
like, Oh, my gosh, this is
27:35
crazy. Well, that went away. As
27:39
soon as they let everybody into
27:39
clubhouse, especially all the
27:42
marketers, and now they're all
27:42
promoting, you know, their own,
27:46
you know, courses and
27:46
masterminds and brainstorms and
27:50
whatever. And that, you know,
27:50
you're not going in there and
27:55
connecting to your favorite
27:55
author, you're going in there
27:58
and connecting with someone
27:58
who's trying to sell you
28:00
something. And there needs to be
28:00
the ability for you to have
28:05
these like serendipitous
28:05
connections with somebody, you
28:10
know, pretty regularly. And I
28:10
think that's very, very
28:13
difficult to do for people to
28:13
have those moments. And it's
28:18
more likely for those moments
28:18
now to happen on Twitter spaces
28:23
where I follow the whatever 1000
28:23
people that I think are
28:28
interesting, and they pop up
28:28
whenever they're in a Twitter
28:32
space. And I could just jump in.
28:32
And maybe if it's a topic that I
28:36
know that I can chime in and
28:36
talk, it's so much easier,
28:40
because I'm opening up Twitter
28:40
app anyway. And then I see that
28:43
there's a conversation
28:43
happening. And it's of the, you
28:47
know, of the people in the world
28:47
is the people that I'd be most
28:49
interested in trying to talk to.
28:49
It's just a totally different
28:52
experience when it's like open
28:52
up a separate app, kind of skim
28:56
around like 3040 different
28:56
rooms, that clubhouse is kind of
28:59
trying to promote to you see if
28:59
any of those are ones that I
29:03
would want to be a part of. It's
29:03
just a much larger commitment.
29:08
And now, you know, the best
29:08
thing for fireside would be
29:11
like, they're like, Hey, I'm
29:11
recording my podcast here, come
29:15
and check it out. And then they
29:15
post a link on Twitter, which
29:18
Twitter's never going to promote
29:18
because it's a link out to
29:21
another competing service. Like
29:21
it's always going to be getting
29:24
pretty bad. You know, engagement
29:24
signals, people leave the app
29:28
that looks really bad to
29:28
Twitter. And so they share it on
29:31
wherever your other platform is.
29:31
I've just confused like, what is
29:36
the play to get people to go to
29:36
this new app to try to have this
29:41
serendipitous connections. And
29:41
if you have those if they're
29:44
bringing you on stage, you're
29:44
asking questions, like Kevin
29:48
saying, Now this podcast has
29:48
become way less valuable, not
29:52
way more valuable. I mean, how
29:52
call in shows used to be the
29:57
thing on the radio, even the
29:57
radio figured out. Oh, Most of
30:01
the column shows, though the
30:01
ones that weren't for column
30:05
shows are where it's like a
30:05
local sports team, and
30:09
everyone's calling in to
30:09
complain.
30:11  Kevin
And I go through a
30:11
screener, usually, like they
30:13
had, yeah,
30:14  Alban
they go through a
30:14
screener. So it's like, oh,
30:17
this, isn't he working super
30:17
well, on radio radio has moving
30:21
is moving away from this. And
30:21
I'm just not sold at all that
30:26
it's going to work in this
30:26
digital medium, always open to
30:31
being proven wrong there. But
30:31
yeah, if you're nervous that,
30:35
hey, my podcast is probably
30:35
struggling, because I'm not
30:39
engaging with all these new
30:39
platforms. And I'm not trying to
30:42
do live audio and stream and
30:42
take live questions. I wouldn't
30:48
stress it. I feel like we've
30:48
heard this story many, many
30:51
times, and hasn't turned out to
30:51
be true yet. And they often are
30:59
conflating This is a great
30:59
business model for us with this
31:03
is a great idea for creators and
31:03
listeners, like, Yeah, everybody
31:09
wants the business model, which
31:09
is I put together the
31:13
marketplace and all the people
31:13
who buy ads come to me and all
31:18
the people who create cool
31:18
content come to me, and all the
31:20
listeners come to me. And for
31:20
the benefit, you know, we
31:24
created YouTube, or we created
31:24
Facebook, and everyone comes to
31:27
us. Everybody wants that
31:27
business model. Yeah, that's not
31:31
rocket science. What is rocket
31:31
science is like, how do you make
31:34
that so compelling, the app and
31:34
the marketplace? And the thing
31:38
you're bringing together this
31:38
network? How is that so
31:40
compelling that everyone's
31:40
actually okay with you taking a
31:43
big portion of the money out of
31:43
this equation? And right now?
31:49
Yeah, I don't think that anyone,
31:49
at least in the audio space is
31:53
making that argument very well.
31:55  Travis
Yep. Now, if you do want
31:55
some good advice, some good
31:58
ideas for growing your podcast,
31:58
if you really resonate with
32:02
Alvin just said, we just wrapped
32:02
up a 12 part series on podcast
32:06
marketing over on Podcasting,
32:06
Q&A. 12 different strategies to
32:10
grow your audience that actually
32:10
work, no matter how big your
32:13
show is. So that's a great place
32:13
to get some ideas. Now, Alvin,
32:16
before we wrap up this segment,
32:16
you gave a talk on podcast
32:20
artwork at podcast movement. So
32:20
walk through some things that
32:23
you share there that we haven't
32:23
shared here on the show some new
32:27
things that you've learned that
32:27
you think could be relevant,
32:29
important helpful for our
32:29
listeners?
32:32  Alban
Well, on the podcast
32:32
artwork side, I think we
32:35
Everyone, this, if you're
32:35
listening to this podcast,
32:37
you're probably set on most of
32:37
the stuff. We talked about the
32:40
basics, what should be included,
32:40
how to think about your artwork,
32:43
while blah, blah. If anyone
32:43
wants the slides from the talk,
32:47
I can share them with them on
32:47
Twitter, I think we've probably
32:50
linked to where I put them up
32:50
before. But that stuff we have
32:54
videos for. I did learn some
32:54
stuff from Apple that was new,
33:01
about Apple new and noteworthy.
33:01
So Apple new and noteworthy and
33:06
how to get in has been kind of
33:06
an enigma for a lot of people
33:10
for a long time. There were a
33:10
lot there's lots of advice that
33:13
was not accurate. And there's a
33:13
lot of people claiming they
33:17
could help you get in, but then
33:17
they turned out to be a scam. So
33:21
we got some truth out of it. I
33:21
least think I found like this.
33:26
These are the true ways and
33:26
weight things that can you can
33:29
do to help your chances of
33:29
getting into Apple new
33:31
noteworthy. First off, the main
33:31
criteria they're looking for is
33:40
that your podcast, subject
33:40
matter is timely. If we're
33:45
wrapping up the Olympics, talk,
33:45
they want to probably now
33:50
Olympic episodes are not as good
33:50
as they would have been two
33:53
weeks ago. Your random
33:53
skateboarding podcast. There's
33:58
nothing special about that right
33:58
now. But if you have Tony Hawk
34:02
on the most famous skateboarder
34:02
of all time for an interview,
34:06
well, that episode might be
34:06
noteworthy. If it's also during
34:11
the Olympics, the first Olympics
34:11
where we have skateboarding as a
34:17
sport, then if you have an
34:17
episode about skateboarding, the
34:21
Olympics, yeah, that would have
34:21
been brilliant. That would have
34:23
been the one that you could have
34:23
submitted right, then, you know,
34:26
they're not just highlighting
34:26
random shows, submit episodes
34:31
and submit your show when it's
34:31
timely. Another
34:35  Kevin
What do you mean when you
34:35
say submit?
34:38  Alban
Oh, so this is part two,
34:38
maybe should be part one.
34:41
There's a submission process.
34:41
This is not just a hope and pray
34:47
that Apple notices you. There's
34:47
a page on kind of is a little
34:51
bit buried and then it takes you
34:51
to I think it's like an air
34:54
table page or we can share the
34:54
link to it where it says Yeah,
35:00
submit your show for Apple to
35:00
consider. And especially if you
35:05
know, you know, hey, this is
35:05
going to be timely, and there's
35:10
some relevance will Yeah,
35:10
definitely go ahead and promote
35:13
it. Another is, you've got to
35:13
have excellent artwork. That's
35:17
how it tied in with this talk.
35:17
Apple is a design focused
35:21
company. And they're so focused
35:21
on there being good artwork.
35:26
Apparently, there's some people
35:26
on the apple team that sometimes
35:30
will work with indie creators to
35:30
redo or improve their artwork
35:34
before being included. So that
35:34
was kind of shocking to me that
35:39
they're putting that much
35:39
thought into it. If Apple ever
35:42
comes to you, and says, we'd
35:42
love to include you, but we need
35:44
to update your artwork, do not
35:44
argue and say, Okay, sounds
35:50
good, thank you. Let me know
35:50
what the new artwork is, and get
35:55
that promotion. Another thing
35:55
is, there's a section on that
35:59
form that talks about promoting
35:59
Apple podcasts. And it just, you
36:04
know, I would want to reiterate,
36:04
if you're trying to get featured
36:09
in Apple new noteworthy, at
36:09
least go out of your way to say,
36:12
Hey, I will actually promote
36:12
that on the new noteworthy, I'll
36:15
actually drop my apple podcast
36:15
links, I'll use the embed player
36:19
that Apple provides things like
36:19
that. It Apple I'm sure wants to
36:24
see if we're going to promote
36:24
your podcast, you're not
36:27
dropping Spotify links all over
36:27
the world. And promoting, you
36:30
know, that number one. And then
36:30
there's some particular there's
36:35
special artwork that Apple
36:35
creates, they call it their
36:38
featuring artwork, that's
36:38
totally different than any other
36:42
artwork that's in your RSS feed,
36:42
it's much wider. And it's pretty
36:46
much so that your artwork could
36:46
be on Apple TV, or any number of
36:54
spots inside of Apple podcasts.
36:54
So I can share it, you know, I'd
36:59
say particular file size. And I
36:59
think just go ahead and make it.
37:02
Because if we're really thinking
37:02
about timely material here, you
37:07
know, if you submit and say,
37:07
Hey, this would be good for
37:09
while the Olympics are going and
37:09
then now Apple has to reach out
37:12
and go, Okay, let's get this
37:12
artwork, and now it takes a day,
37:15
then they say oh, it probably
37:15
should be updated. A little
37:18
cleaned up a bit. Well, now you
37:18
might have missed the window. So
37:23
I think creating that artwork up
37:23
front and submitting that as
37:26
well is a really great idea.
37:26
Just make it easy on the apple
37:30
selection team to go ahead and
37:30
pick your artwork. And then they
37:36
also apparently keep these
37:36
submissions around. So you may
37:41
submit a podcast that maybe it's
37:41
a history podcast, and it's
37:45
talking about black history,
37:45
well, they may say that for
37:49
Black History Month. So if it's
37:49
not what you're talking about
37:52
now is not timely, it might be
37:52
in a few months, and it might
37:57
get picked up later. So don't be
37:57
bummed if you aren't picked up.
38:01
And maybe you'll find a big
38:01
spike in your stats at some
38:05
point in the future. But you
38:05
know, I can share all this, we
38:08
can put a link in the show
38:08
notes. I just thought it was
38:10
super interesting. I mean, this
38:10
does not feel like a lot of
38:14
people are talking about there
38:14
being this way to submit your
38:19
podcast for possible inclusion.
38:19
And we have a video Travis just
38:24
finished editing it with Fatimah
38:24
Zaidi, who is the CEO of quill.
38:31
And I talked to her about this a
38:31
little bit as well, where they
38:34
have pretty much a tried and
38:34
true method where they get most
38:38
of their shows featured now. So
38:38
we can you know, we'll link to
38:43
that as soon as it's released.
38:43
Because I think that's gonna be
38:46
really valuable. That's probably
38:46
next Friday will come Oh yes.
38:49  Travis
And we'll drop the audio
38:49
here in the Buzzcast feed. So if
38:51
you are subscribed, then you
38:51
should, quote unquote, get that
38:56
episode depending on the app
38:56
that you listen to Buzzcast.
39:03  Alban
So that sounds like a
39:03
nice little transition to why
39:06
Travis says should get that up.
39:09  Travis
Yes. So the last thing
39:09
we want to talk about is the
39:13
ongoing, updated super cool,
39:13
awesome fresh looking Apple
39:18
podcast app that seems to find
39:18
new ways to break on a
39:22
consistent basis. Probably the
39:22
most prominent public facing
39:26
recent one is that podcasts like
39:26
XML tech podcast, Mark ramen,
39:31
Mark Marin are seeing that new
39:31
episodes are not showing up in
39:34
Apple podcasts. Even if you
39:34
subscribe to the show, and
39:38
you're technically supposed to
39:38
get it directly to your device.
39:40
As soon as it's released and you
39:40
open the app. They're not
39:43
showing up, but they're showing
39:43
up everywhere else. And that's
39:45
just kind of the latest in a
39:45
long line of things that have
39:48
been happening with the apple
39:48
podcast rollout that has a lot
39:52
of people scratching their heads
39:52
and a lot of people wondering,
39:56
is this actually something
39:56
that's going to get fixed
39:58
anytime soon.
40:00  Kevin
Yeah, um, gosh, it's a
40:00
mess, right Apple podcasts is,
40:05
is a mess. It's super
40:05
unfortunate. Again, I've said
40:10
this before, and I will, I will
40:10
always say it because everyone
40:13
who we interact with in app at
40:13
the app on the apple team, are
40:16
amazing people, they are all
40:16
super nice. So this, this brings
40:19
us no joy to say that this mess
40:19
is happening. But at the same
40:24
time, it's it's hard for us
40:24
because we are podcasters
40:27
ourselves, we care about a lot
40:27
of podcasters we build our
40:30
livelihoods around serving
40:30
podcasters. And so it's just
40:35
heartbreaking to see that
40:35
there's, there's the most
40:39
popular podcast listening app in
40:39
the world is having this amount
40:44
of trouble for this amount of
40:44
time is it's it's brutal. I
40:51
mean, there's there's a lot of
40:51
lessons to be learned here,
40:55
right? Like the the idea that we
40:55
are all like that, there's
40:59
always going to be a most
40:59
popular app, but the fact that
41:01
the most popular app is
41:01
somewhere between 40 and 60%. of
41:06
most people's listening base is
41:06
not great. Right? We need, we
41:12
need more diversity. So as much
41:12
as I, I'm not a huge fan of
41:16
everything that Spotify does,
41:16
I'm glad that they're making
41:19
waves in the space because we're
41:19
getting more and more listeners
41:22
in more places. So that's,
41:22
that's something I can be
41:24
excited about Spotify is doing.
41:24
I love the fact that we've got a
41:28
lot of small independent podcast
41:28
listening apps on the market.
41:34
They're not super popular for
41:34
most people, it's less than 5%
41:37
of their listeners listen to one
41:37
from somebody other than Apple,
41:41
Spotify or Google. Right. So
41:41
what can we be doing as
41:45
podcasts, I think we can be
41:45
informing our audience that
41:47
there are other places that they
41:47
can listen, there are other apps
41:50
that they can get. And for the
41:50
most part, they're probably
41:55
better. And maybe not just
41:55
because they got better
41:58
programmers or something. But I
41:58
think at the end of the day, and
42:01
again, this is not a fun thing
42:01
for me to say, but but these
42:03
people care more. Like when
42:03
Marco is working on overcast, he
42:07
cares a lot. This is how he
42:07
feeds his family and pays his
42:11
bills. It's 100% what he's
42:11
invested in, and he invested his
42:15
life and he wants it to be the
42:15
best out that he can be and he
42:19
wants it up and running well all
42:19
the time. Not that the team at
42:23
Apple doesn't have that same
42:23
level of care for the craft that
42:26
they do. But I think I mean,
42:26
again, it's hard because I know
42:33
that I know those people care
42:33
about what they're doing. But
42:36
it's not a huge priority in the
42:36
big world of apple. So I wonder
42:40
how many resources they get or
42:40
how much you know, we've got
42:43
this server issue, well, Apple
42:43
might have 15, other server
42:46
issues that are higher priority
42:46
right now that they can't
42:48
dedicate resources to or throw
42:48
more power at. And I don't know,
42:52
I don't work at Apple, all I
42:52
know is that there's been a
42:54
massive amount of problems for a
42:54
massive amount of time. And it's
42:57
impacting a lot of podcasters.
42:57
And these are people that we
43:00
serve and that we care about.
43:00
And so it's very frustrating to
43:02
me. And it's very, like I think,
43:02
I think I'm just ready to be to
43:07
say like, I'm gonna start. My
43:07
wife uses Apple podcasts. That's
43:11
what she listens to most of our
43:11
podcasts on. But like I'm done
43:14
with it. Like it's time for her
43:14
to get on another app, like
43:17
pocket casts or overcast or
43:17
maybe pod friend, maybe she's
43:20
gonna start streaming satoshis
43:20
to podcasters. So I mean, maybe
43:25
overall, this is good for the
43:25
podcasting ecosystem. I just
43:27
know a lot of podcasters are are
43:27
taking a hit for it right now.
43:31
And I feel bad for him as
43:32  Travis
well. And I know, one of
43:32
the before we even get to this
43:35
bug about episode is not showing
43:35
up in people's feed even when
43:38
they're subscribed. The one
43:38
before that people were asking
43:41
about is like, all of a sudden,
43:41
my apple podcast numbers just
43:44
drops, like a rock. Yeah, like
43:44
40% of my listeners went away
43:49
overnight that were there
43:49
before, what's going on? And
43:54
yeah, there were some issues
43:54
with, you know, reporting that
43:57
data back down. And so yeah, you
43:57
know, and there's other stuff
44:00
going on behind the scenes.
44:00
There's other reasons for that,
44:02
for sure. But like, at least as
44:02
a podcaster, you see that and
44:05
you think, What is going on?
44:05
Like what did I do wrong? That
44:09
this many people just stop
44:09
listening to my podcast, and
44:12
that has an effect on you as a
44:12
creator. Especially if you're
44:15
not in the industry, and you
44:15
don't know like, Oh, it's not
44:18
you. It's this other entity over
44:18
here. That just happens to be
44:23
the biggest player in the space.
44:23
It's, it's tough. It's really
44:27
hard as a creator to see not
44:27
only what's happening with
44:30
Apple, but just how it's
44:30
affecting podcasters as well.
44:35  Alban
I always kind of go back
44:35
to like, what is the overall
44:39
support that the apple team is
44:39
getting to actually deal with
44:43
some of these issues? Because
44:43
like, there's no way that
44:47
they're just sitting there going
44:47
like oh, no, there we go, well
44:50
headed home it you know, it's
44:50
it's, it's five o'clock, so I'm
44:54
headed home, like you know that
44:54
the team is working as hard as
44:57
they can to fix it. And so it
44:57
just Makes me wonder like, how
45:02
many people are over there? How,
45:02
what kind of server resources?
45:05
Are they dealing, you know, do
45:05
they have access to if you are a
45:10
independent podcasting app like
45:10
overcast with only one person,
45:16
if you know, the market goes,
45:16
Oh, all of a sudden, there's
45:20
some bugs. He just say, Yeah, I
45:20
need to have twice the amount of
45:23
servers, he can go ahead and
45:23
just say, Hey, I'm using AWS or
45:28
whatever servers he uses. Let's
45:28
just double it. I wonder like,
45:32
does the apple team have that
45:32
ability? Are they going there?
45:34
Is there a bunch of red tape
45:34
around this? Because it feels
45:37
like it takes way longer than it
45:37
should to fix stuff? And knowing
45:42
the people we know, I don't
45:42
think it's there. That's the
45:46
issue is that people? So it
45:46
makes me think there must be
45:49
some sort of organizational?
45:49
Yeah, we're not. We like
45:53
podcasts. We've basically had
45:53
been the steward of the
45:57
podcasting industry for 15 years
45:57
and really helped it grow. But
46:02
it's always been a kind of
46:02
backburner thing. You know, I'd
46:06
love to see Apple take a bit
46:06
more leadership and be like,
46:10
Hey, we're going to make sure
46:10
that this app never breaks
46:13
again. And we're going to make
46:13
sure it's the fastest app, and
46:17
the most reliable app, because
46:17
everything that they're doing
46:21
now is the hard stuff. It seems
46:21
like like they're doing the
46:23
human review of every single
46:23
podcast. And pretty much the
46:27
rest of the industry relies on
46:27
that. You know, most of the
46:31
other apps are just going Hey,
46:31
whatever Apple says is a good
46:33
show. We, we trust that and
46:33
we'll put it in our app. Apple's
46:37
doing that painful, that
46:37
painstaking work to make sure
46:40
that they get the right shows in
46:40
and the stuff that should be
46:45
easier for Apple seems like it
46:45
isn't. So I'm just it makes me
46:49
think that people are doing
46:49
their job. I'm wondering if the
46:52
organization is really
46:52
supporting it in the way that
46:54
they should?
46:55  Travis
Yeah. So if you've
46:55
noticed, your downloads are down
46:59
in Apple podcast, specifically,
46:59
if you are wondering why people
47:05
are reaching out saying they
47:05
can't find your episodes, if you
47:08
are one of the individuals that
47:08
are like, okay, I just released
47:11
an episode. Let me refresh my
47:11
feed, make sure it's there and
47:14
make sure everything is exactly
47:14
how it needs to look up. It's
47:16
missing. But it says it's
47:16
published in Buzzsprout. This,
47:19
this is some of the stuff that's
47:19
going on. It's not you. It's not
47:23
something that Buzzsprout can
47:23
fix, unfortunately. Because your
47:30
show is getting in other apps as
47:30
well. It's just kind of the
47:33
nature of things at this point.
47:33
But if you wanted some
47:38
recommendations, you have
47:38
listeners that use Apple
47:40
podcasts that are like, Hey, I
47:40
can't get your show, I can't get
47:42
your episodes, where else can I
47:42
find you. I mean, we're all big
47:46
overcast fans, as far as an iOS
47:46
app that they can go to pocket
47:51
casts is another app that is
47:51
really well reviewed, highly
47:55
recommended. There's a paid
47:55
version, I believe, I think it's
47:57
like $5 to get the to get the
47:57
app, but it also crosses over if
48:01
you have Android devices, it's
48:01
cross cross device cross
48:05
platform. So you can do that.
48:05
And then good pots, you know, if
48:08
you want to be able to link it
48:08
up with your friends, see what
48:11
they're listening to what
48:11
they're promoting. read reviews
48:15
on specific episodes. Good pods
48:15
is a really cool app that's much
48:19
more engaging, interactive. And
48:19
we think really blends the
48:23
social element the right way. So
48:23
those are three recommendations,
48:27
if you want to push your
48:27
listeners to a different app, so
48:29
that they actually get your
48:29
episodes when they come out.
48:31  Kevin
Yeah, let me let me add
48:31
to that recommendation list.
48:33
Because those those are great
48:33
apps. They've been around for a
48:35
long time. They work well. There
48:35
are a lot of other apps that are
48:39
doing a bunch of really cool
48:39
work with podcasts index and
48:41
supporting the podcast
48:41
namespace. I love them. They're
48:44
not as polished and refined as
48:44
the ones that Travis just gave.
48:48
So they might not be the ones
48:48
that you want to recommend to. I
48:51
don't know your mother in law,
48:51
for example, just yet, but for
48:55
podcasters, we should be knowing
48:55
about these apps, we should be
48:58
using these users like well,
48:58
podcast addict is is a very
49:03
popular app for Android but pod
49:03
friend pod verse mountain pod
49:05
station, Sphinx chat, hyper
49:05
chaser, or hyper catcher sorry,
49:09
breeze antenna pod. If you go to
49:09
podcast index.org and click on
49:13
apps at the top, you're gonna
49:13
see a list of all these apps.
49:15
And they're very cool. They're
49:15
very different. They're not
49:17
doing the same things in the
49:17
same way as every other app. And
49:20
so try them out. Like there's no
49:20
reason apps are they all have
49:24
like apps in the app store or
49:24
web versions. They're all free.
49:27
Download it, load up your
49:27
podcasts and see if you like it,
49:29
if you do tell other people
49:29
about it. We need to support
49:32
independent app creators. We
49:32
need more and more of these
49:35
right now. Apple has a huge
49:35
amount of our listeners are
49:39
coming through Apple podcasts.
49:39
And it's it's we're seeing what
49:43
happens when that breaks right
49:43
when they fail us. Spotify is
49:46
trying to do the same thing
49:46
Spotify is a lot of people have
49:49
a huge percentage of their
49:49
listening audience comes through
49:52
Spotify. Again, that in and of
49:52
itself is not bad. But we have
49:55
to make sure that this
49:55
independent app ecosystem stays
49:58
healthy and stays strong and
49:58
developers are incented to
50:01
develop new apps, because when
50:01
Apple podcast breaks when
50:04
Spotify breaks, or when they
50:04
change the rules, they change
50:06
the game or they say, we're not
50:06
interested in doing this
50:08
anymore. How are people still
50:08
going to get your content like
50:11
we're doing this stuff, because
50:11
we love it. We're doing this
50:13
stuff to support our businesses,
50:13
we might be doing this because
50:15
we're monetizing, and it's part
50:15
of our income. And we're, we
50:18
cannot be dependent. Or the only
50:18
source of distribution of our
50:23
content cannot be these huge
50:23
corporations that can change on
50:26
a dime or break overnight. And
50:26
so support these independent
50:29
podcast creators. These are
50:29
people who love podcasting,
50:32
that's why they're building this
50:32
stuff, they're passionate about
50:34
it, you might find an app that
50:34
is not super popular, but you
50:38
love or aligns with your
50:38
interests or supports your
50:40
podcasts in a way that others
50:40
aren't. And you might want to
50:42
tell your audience about it so
50:42
hopeful. Hopefully, that's
50:44
helpful.
50:45  Travis
And not only that, but
50:45
these apps, all these third
50:53
party apps, they take advantage
50:53
of features that you have in
51:02
Buzzsprout, that apps like Apple
51:02
podcast, don't, right. So like
51:12
if you use the transcript
51:12
feature inside of Buzzsprout,
51:21
whether you edit and descriptor
51:21
run through otter, or rev, and
51:31
you add a transcript to every
51:31
single one of your episodes to
51:40
make it more accessible. There
51:40
are apps that will actually show
51:50
that transcript. And even some
51:50
that use it as closed captions
52:00
if you upload it as an SRT file,
52:00
which is a better experience for
52:10
your listeners. And so it's not
52:10
just a benefit to you, as a
52:19
creator to say, you know,
52:19
download this third, this third
52:28
party app because it helps me,
52:28
but it's actually a service to
52:38
your listeners, as well when you
52:38
point them to better
52:46
opportunities to engage with
52:46
your content. Well, that wraps
52:55
it up for this episode. And
52:55
we'll catch you in the next one.
53:05
Keep podcasting.