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episode 62: Why Apple Podcasts Automatically Downloads Your Episodes [transcript]


In this episode, the crew recaps our trip to ShePodcasts Live, Apple's new article detailing how auto downloads work in Apple Podcasts, and Eric Nuzum's article with relevant tips for indie podcasters.

Links from this episode:

  • Automatic Downloads on Apple Podcasts
  • Five Pieces of Advice for Those Interested in Podcasting by Eric Nuzum
  • Subscribe to Eric Nuzum's newsletter: The Audio Insurgent


Support these Buzzsprout podcasts:

  • Marked Safe: A Disaster Podcast
  • Eclectic Stories of the Paranormal
  • PNW Haunts & Homicides


Review Buzzcast in Podchaser or Apple Podcasts to let us know what you think of the show.

Buzzsprout's Dynamic Content tool now allows you to save multiple clips in your Dynamic Content Library and track how many downloads each clip receives. Learn more on our New Features page.


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 2021-10-22  43m
 
 
00:00  Travis
So Alban, do you have
00:00
any recommendations for
00:02
Halloween podcast since we're
00:02
coming up on the best holiday of
00:05
the year? I'm not biased at all.
00:05
I may or may not have actually
00:09
been born in Halloween
00:09  Kevin
is your birthday
00:09
Halloween?
00:11  Travis
Yeah, my birthday is on
00:11
Halloween.
00:12  Kevin
Well, that's something
00:12
I'd much rather celebrate your
00:14
birthday than Halloween.
00:15  Alban
This is not a podcast
00:15
recording. This is just me
00:19
talking.
00:20  Kevin
Well, I'm the only one
00:20
with high energy. not keeping it
00:23
going.
00:23  Alban
Travis asked me a
00:23
question. Did you interrupted.
00:26
Remember I said she's a Reese's
00:26
in here that
00:36  Travis
circle back. Alban, do
00:36
you have any good Halloween
00:40
podcasts to recommend to people?
00:43  Alban
Yeah. So amazon music
00:43
reached out, I don't know, maybe
00:46
a couple months ago and said
00:46
they are doing a series of
00:49
promotions. And one of them are
00:49
a Halloween themed scary
00:55
podcasts. And so I put out a
00:55
call to the Buzzsprout Facebook
00:59
group and said, Hey, what are
00:59
some great Halloween podcast
01:02
hosted on Buzzsprout you know,
01:02
scary stories. And I got a big
01:08
list. And we went through and we
01:08
listened to a bunch of them and
01:11
sent over some of our favorites.
01:11
And three of them were selected
01:15
by amazon music and they're
01:15
going to be promoted starting, I
01:18
think Friday. So those are
01:18
marked safe, a disaster podcast,
01:22
which is there actually are
01:22
friends who did the TIC Tock
01:26
videos that went really well. So
01:26
I feel like they're just on a
01:29
roll right now killing
01:30  Travis
it.
01:30  Alban
The real Halloween scary
01:30
story is like what happens if
01:33
you go to an amusement park and
01:33
like, you know, the roller
01:36
coaster goes off the tracks.
01:36
Then there's another one called
01:40
eclectic stories of the
01:40
paranormal, which is a
01:42
paranormal podcast, and pn w
01:42
haunts and homicides, that's
01:49
like Pacific Northwest. And
01:49
they're just kind of learning
01:52
like, Hey, what's happened
01:52
around in this area, so it's all
01:56
like kind of ghost stories and
01:56
true crime, but it's all kind of
02:00
focused on that area. But all of
02:00
them were picked up. And they're
02:04
all going to be getting promoted
02:04
inside of amazon music. So
02:07
congrats to them. And if you
02:07
aren't a member of our Facebook
02:11
group, go ahead and join because
02:11
that's where if we ever hear
02:15
these on the Buzzsprout side,
02:15
there's an opportunity for some
02:20
additional promotion or
02:20
something we can do for you.
02:22
That's probably where we put out
02:22
the call first. Just since
02:25
that's where our community hangs
02:25
out.
02:27  Kevin
I have a question. Yes,
02:27
the word paranormal, right? I
02:30
understand the prefix para Uh
02:30
huh. Meaning like abnormal or
02:38
apart from normal but then how
02:38
does that make sense in the word
02:42
parachute? What are you like an
02:42
abnormal or
02:46  Alban
wait no is because it's
02:46
like a long side or near what
02:50
the
02:50  Kevin
shoot para it's a long
02:50
side of what near what
02:55  Alban
near you you're you're
02:55
falling in the parachute is near
02:58
you.
02:59  Kevin
What's the shoot part
02:59
apart from maybe it's the apart
03:02
parasail It's a part of shooting
03:02
so it's like it's it's different
03:07
from shooting is
03:07  Alban
a shoe that is apart from
03:07
you.
03:11  Travis
Like because you have
03:11
like paratrooper paragraph,
03:14  Alban
right paragraph is like
03:14
that it's
03:16  Kevin
set up like people taking
03:16
this prefix and just applying it
03:18
in all these weird ways. Yeah,
03:18
yeah.
03:20  Alban
paranormal, like beyond
03:20
other use apart from
03:24  Kevin
paragraph makes sense.
03:24
Because it's, it's an apart from
03:27
a longer story.
03:28  Travis
So according to a quick
03:28
Google search, it's from the
03:32
Greek para, which means beside
03:32
in combinations, often meaning a
03:37
miss, irregular and denoting
03:37
alteration or modification,
03:41  Kevin
right? I just don't
03:41
understand it in the context of
03:43
the word parachute.
03:45  Alban
Alright, this is now an
03:45
etymology Podcast, where we are
03:48
get deep dives into parachute
03:48
etymology. Okay. So from the
03:52
late 18th century French, French
03:52
para protection against and
03:58
shoot fall. So a parachute is
03:58
what protects you against a fall
04:03
interesting. So it sounds like
04:03
it's maybe not the same prefix.
04:08
paranormal is even though he
04:08
felt the same. Yeah. a parachute
04:12
is from the French. Anybody who
04:12
has a real etymology podcast,
04:18
please feel free to give us some
04:18
follow up on this. This is very
04:21
important, but the more
04:21
important thing, go on to amazon
04:24
music, submit your podcasts and
04:24
get some promotion in there and
04:30
go ahead and listen to Pacific
04:30
Northwest haunts paranormal
04:33
podcast and Mark safe. All good
04:33
shows, and we'll link them in
04:37
the show notes.
04:37  Kevin
Yep. And speaking of
04:37
Halloween themed podcast, I
04:43
mean, if you guys watched the
04:43
what's the name of it the only
04:45
murders in the building?
04:47  Travis
Yes, I watched the
04:47
crime. Kind of how much did you
04:51
watch? I watched the first
04:51
episode. Yeah, I
04:53  Kevin
watched the first two.
04:53
Did you get into it Alban?
04:56  Alban
I haven't watched it. Oh,
04:58  Travis
it definitely hooks. You
04:58
Even if you're a podcaster, and
05:01
I've heard it only gets better,
05:01
what's the premise
05:03  Alban
of the show? Oh, well,
05:04  Kevin
I'll give it a go since
05:04
I've watched twice as many
05:06
episodes, Travis. So there are
05:06
three people that live in the
05:13
same building. And they all bump
05:13
into each other and make a
05:16
connection because they're all
05:16
fans have this true crime
05:20
podcast. And so at some point,
05:20
they all have like a fire alarm
05:23
or something that goes off in
05:23
their building, and they all go
05:25
out of the building. They meet
05:25
up in a coffee shop next door,
05:28
and they're all trying to listen
05:28
to the new episode of this true
05:30
crime podcast. And they make
05:30
this connection. And then they
05:34
realize it wasn't like a fire
05:34
alarm or whatever reason they
05:36
left the building, somebody was
05:36
actually murdered in their
05:38
building. And then they decided
05:38
to start their own true crime
05:41
podcast to solve this murder in
05:41
the building. And then Episode
05:46
Two, they talk about oh, we
05:46
should, like all podcasters do.
05:49
We've got this one podcast going
05:49
we should start another podcast.
05:52
And then somebody says, No,
05:52
we're not going to do another
05:54
podcast. We're only gonna do
05:54
murders in this building. And
05:58
that's where they get the name
05:58
from. And that's where I am
06:00
Episode Two. But it's kind of
06:00
funny. It's Martin Short. Steve
06:04
Martin, Selena Gomez. Well,
06:04
interesting cast, but I love it.
06:08
I love the fact that podcasting
06:08
is getting more and more
06:11
mainstream. Like these are just
06:11
regular people from different
06:14
generations connecting over this
06:14
true crime podcast and then
06:17
starting their own. Just really
06:17
fun concept. Alright, good talk.
06:25
Alban, how is she podcasts?
06:26  Alban
Oh, she podcast is great.
06:26
We flew out to Arizona,
06:32
Scottsdale Arizona, got to
06:32
experience the desert climate
06:36
and took a big team got to hang
06:36
out with everybody she podcasts
06:40  Kevin
where's where's
06:40
Scottsdale in relation to
06:43
Phoenix.
06:44  Alban
Right next door. So flew
06:44
into the Phoenix airport, took a
06:50
nice $60 Uber and cruise over
06:50
there to Scottsdale pretty close
06:55
by. But it was just you know,
06:55
it's a cool spot. There
06:58
probably, I don't know, maybe
06:58
300 people in person. And quite
07:03
a few that were virtual. It
07:03
feels like we're kind of coming
07:06
back for podcast conferences.
07:06
This one, they had everybody
07:11
either upload proof of
07:11
vaccination or a negative COVID
07:15
test. Like right beforehand. So
07:15
it was much more laid back. You
07:19
didn't have to feel stressed
07:19
out. Most people weren't wearing
07:21
masks, and you're just kind of
07:21
normal talking to people and
07:25
come back and haven't gotten
07:25
anything. So yeah, it was just
07:29
fun to like, kind of talk to
07:29
people normally again.
07:31  Kevin
So it felt like Florida
07:31
felt like,
07:33  Alban
well, it the the
07:33
enforcement was about the same
07:37
as Florida. The stress level is
07:37
quite diminished. It's you knew
07:42
that everybody was taking some
07:42
precautions.
07:45  Kevin
Yeah, I always feel like
07:45
living in Florida, we have a
07:47
very skewed perspective on what
07:47
the rest of the world has been
07:50
going through for the past year
07:50
and a half. Because we had a
07:53
very short like really tight
07:53
lockdown period, it was like,
07:57
month and a half, two months
07:57
where every store was masked
08:01
only. It was only for like a
08:01
month when they're like please
08:03
don't leave your house unless
08:03
you have to, like go get
08:05
groceries or something. But
08:05
then, like from that point
08:09
forward, Florida has just been
08:09
like living up to its reputation
08:12
of wild crazy Florida. It's just
08:12
like everyone knew everything.
08:16
We definitely leaned into it.
08:16
Yeah. And so schools have been
08:20
open. Most businesses are not
08:20
requiring masks. You can it's
08:25
kind of been, you know,
08:25
obviously on an individual
08:29
level, people are doing whatever
08:29
they need to do. But mandate
08:31
wise, there's been very little
08:31
happening in Florida. But I
08:33
talked to people in other parts
08:33
of the country. And it's
08:35
obviously it's very different.
08:35
And so I was interested you
08:38
going out to Arizona, what it
08:38
felt like,
08:40  Alban
I don't really know how
08:40
Arizona was it as a whole. But
08:43
the way she podcasted it was, I
08:43
think really good, because it
08:48
was the best chance to feel
08:48
normal. And for people to feel
08:51
safe. And everyone was being
08:51
respectful. And everybody had
08:56
either had shown something to
08:56
say like I'm not COVID positive
08:59
right now. And so that was nice
08:59
to be able to not wear a mask
09:03
the whole time and not be
09:03
feeling bad when you talk to
09:06
somebody. And you know,
09:06
podcasters like to talk so we
09:09
all got to connect and have a
09:09
good time. Priscilla, who runs
09:14
our support team and Ana who
09:14
does our events and community.
09:18
Both had talks were really good.
09:18
And I was just, you know, cool
09:24
to see Jessica and LC who runs
09:24
she podcasts and just kind of
09:28
like lots of familiar faces.
09:30  Kevin
That's great. Were the
09:30
talks recorded, they do video
09:33
sessions.
09:34  Alban
I took a bunch of photos
09:34
and little clips to share with
09:37
the team. I believe all the
09:37
talks were recorded, and they
09:41
should go out to people who got
09:41
like a virtual pass. I do think
09:44
there were some events though,
09:44
that were separate. They were
09:47
like virtual only events. And so
09:47
if you got a virtual ticket from
09:52
Buzzsprout, you might have
09:52
access to a few things that
09:55
weren't actually recorded live
09:55
that were recorded separately.
09:59  Kevin
I wonder Did they ever
09:59
make it available to the people
10:02
who gave talks? And if they do a
10:02
video recording they ever would
10:05
they like Priscilla and Ana have
10:05
their talks that we could put on
10:08
our YouTube channel or
10:08
something.
10:10  Alban
podfest did that for me
10:10
one year, they gave me the link
10:13
and said, go ahead and upload
10:13
it. And I watched it and I went
10:16
on a fast track. I was like,
10:16
there's room for improvement in
10:21
this doc for sure. Yeah, I think
10:21
it'd be cool to, you know, take
10:25
them and maybe clean them up and
10:25
then put them on the YouTube
10:27
channel. I think that'd be
10:27
awesome. All right, well, let's
10:34
jump into our one breaking story
10:34
on Apple podcasts clarifies
10:39
automatic downloads.
10:40  Travis
So here's why this is
10:40
interesting. Apple usually does
10:43
not do this. They don't usually
10:43
tell us the secret sauce of how
10:46
they do things in the
10:46
background, we're always trying
10:48
to read the tea leaves and say,
10:48
what's going on. We even
10:51
recently did a refresh video on
10:51
the podcast Connect analytics
10:57
that you get with Apple
10:57
podcasts. And it's very, like
11:01
mind bending, trying to make
11:01
sense of some of the stuff they
11:04
have in there. And so the fact
11:04
that they would actually create
11:07
a full length article with like
11:07
gifts, showing how different
11:12
things are done. It's like,
11:12
Alright, well, let's, let's get
11:16
a little bit more of this apple,
11:16
help us understand how things
11:19
are working in the background.
11:19
So one
11:20  Alban
of the things Apple's
11:20
always done is they I'm pretty
11:23
sure it's like VP level, and
11:23
anyone below VP level at Apple
11:27
isn't really supposed to talk to
11:27
the media at all about Apple.
11:31
And so I think that kind of
11:31
keeps, you know, it keeps the
11:35
excitement up high, it makes it
11:35
so that, you know, Apple stays
11:40
on message. But it also makes it
11:40
harder for things like the
11:43
podcasting team, which probably
11:43
isn't getting, you know, big
11:46
airtime in the middle of an
11:46
apple event to talk about
11:50
changes the ranking. And so I
11:50
think that maybe this is their
11:53
way of being able to say, hey,
11:53
industry, you guys seem a little
11:56
confused about how we're doing
11:56
automatic downloads. Why don't
11:59
we clarify it? There's a few
11:59
things that I learned. And I
12:03
thought it was pretty useful. Do
12:03
you guys want to jump into a
12:06
little bit?
12:06  Travis
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
12:06
Alright, so
12:08  Alban
the default behavior on
12:08
Apple podcasts, which is really
12:13
one of the biggest players in
12:13
the podcasting space, it
12:17
automatically downloads
12:17
episodes, when your phone is
12:20
charged, and connected to Wi Fi.
12:20
If you want to change it.
12:26  Kevin
That was a sticking point
12:26
for me when your phone is
12:27
charged. Like they don't
12:27
necessarily specify which level
12:31
of charge as long as it has a
12:31
charge and is not in low power
12:34
mode. They did say that. So I'm
12:34
assuming what they mean when I
12:37
say charge, they mean it's over
12:37
20% because at 20%, it goes into
12:41
low power mode and then acts
12:41
differently.
12:43  Alban
Yeah, I saw later it said
12:43
in low power mode, they won't
12:45
download episode. So I kind of
12:45
took it the same way. It's not
12:48
in low power mode. And then the
12:48
other thing is you can turn on
12:51
cellular downloads. I mean,
12:51
that's what I do, I it's okay,
12:55
I'll chew up a little bit of
12:55
data plan to make sure that I've
12:57
got my new podcasts ready to go.
12:57
So the default though, is charge
13:04
connected to Wi Fi downloads.
13:04
Depending on how the podcast is
13:08
set up, they download different
13:08
things like a serial podcast,
13:12
it's downloading the first three
13:12
episodes of this season, where
13:16
episodic like this show, we just
13:16
download the latest episode.
13:20
Make sense? Apple Watch is
13:20
automatically trying to pretty
13:26
much mirror the app, you can
13:26
customize it, but it's going to
13:29
mirror the app. I don't know
13:29
about either view, Apple Watch
13:32
apps in general, are never not
13:32
always been that great for me,
13:37
you've got to pretty much leave
13:37
your watch on a charger for
13:40
quite a while for it to actually
13:40
sync up and do things. So you
13:45
know, if I'm going to go run and
13:45
you only wear my watch and want
13:48
to listen to a podcast, I
13:48
definitely am like charging it
13:51
like making sure things are
13:51
loading before I go.
13:54  Kevin
Right. And for stats
13:54
counting. We don't add
13:57
Buzzsprout anyway, I think we'd
13:57
have to pull in john or Tom, to
14:02
get 100% accurate answer. But I
14:02
don't think we count any Apple
14:05
Watch transfers in our stats.
14:05
Because I think it's super rare
14:10
to be able to configure your
14:10
Apple Watch to download directly
14:12
from the host. But they used to
14:12
like hit the server still is
14:15
like a ping or something. And
14:15
for a little bit a small window
14:18
of time it was registering as an
14:18
additional download. And so I
14:21
think we decided to cut those
14:21
out of our download numbers. And
14:23
I think that's the way it still
14:23
works. So you don't have to
14:25
worry about people who are
14:25
downloading your episode to your
14:28
phone and then sinking that to
14:28
their watch as a duplicate
14:31
download.
14:31  Alban
Right? So when Apple's
14:31
mirroring it from your phone to
14:36
your watch, that used to look
14:36
like two downloads. But since we
14:40
know it is two downloads, but it
14:40
is one person, we're gonna say
14:45
that's one download, you know,
14:45
even because it's mirroring the
14:49
two apps Yeah,
14:50  Kevin
it's weird that it's I
14:50
don't think it is technically
14:53
two downloads, but it might be I
14:53
think what they're trying to do
14:55
is they were trying to confirm
14:55
that the episode they're
14:57
transferring from your phone is
14:57
still the exact same Episode
15:00
that's on the server. That's
15:00
where the server hit came in
15:02
from. And then if it was they
15:02
would just transfer it from your
15:04
phone. And if not, they would
15:04
download it again. Again, since
15:07
it's it's kind of a black box
15:07
without the help of articles
15:11
like this and understanding
15:11
what's going on in the
15:13
background. Yeah, we just played
15:13
it safe and said, it's just one
15:17
download. And I think most
15:17
podcasts hosted the same that
15:19
change was like a year ago or a
15:19
little over a year.
15:22  Alban
So the big thing is, when
15:22
do they pause automatic
15:25
downloads, because here's the
15:25
here's the concern that people
15:29
would have somebody subscribes
15:29
to your podcast, and then they
15:33
don't even listen to podcasts
15:33
anymore. And then three years
15:36
later, like, they're still
15:36
downloading your episode, and
15:39
you're still like, man, podcasts
15:39
are growing, I'm doing well. And
15:43
maybe they're not even being
15:43
listened to. And so apples now
15:47
said, if somebody hasn't played
15:47
an episode of your podcast in 15
15:51
days, or they haven't listened
15:51
to any of the last five
15:55
episodes, we're going to put
15:55
them on pause, we're just going
15:59
to say, hey, those episodes are
15:59
still there. If they want to
16:03
unpause it, they can if they
16:03
want to listen, they can. But as
16:07
of now, they've got five
16:07
episodes in the queue, or
16:09
they've got over two weeks of
16:09
content that hasn't been played,
16:13
we're just going to go ahead and
16:13
pause the podcast, you know,
16:16
that can be returned on and it
16:16
kind of like restarts that
16:19
countdown. But that, to me feels
16:19
like a very healthy number. If
16:25
someone hasn't listened to a
16:25
bunch of episodes. They're
16:28
probably they've moved on.
16:28
That's okay. And over two weeks,
16:32
they haven't listened to
16:32
something they moved on. And
16:35
that's okay. Yeah,
16:36  Kevin
I personally love this
16:36
behavior. And I wish more
16:38
podcasts apps would adapt
16:38
something or adopt something
16:42
similar. Because I get so
16:42
frustrated overcast is the app
16:49
that I've been, I have been
16:49
using, I am looking for another
16:51
one right now. But I have been
16:51
using overcast for years. And
16:54
one thing that I often find
16:54
myself doing is sitting in the
16:57
seat of a Southwest flight as
16:57
we're taxing, and I'm trying to
17:00
download episodes as quickly as
17:00
possible. And it really is not
17:04
the end of the world because you
17:04
can get in flight Wi Fi, but I'm
17:06
just trying to save myself $8
17:06
before we lose cell connection,
17:10
and so I'm trying to download as
17:10
fast as I can. But like if Apple
17:14
podcasts was my default app,
17:14
then anything that I really
17:16
wanted to listen to would
17:16
already be there and queued up,
17:18
I also have a problem because I
17:18
travel from Jacksonville down to
17:22
South Florida on a pretty
17:22
regular basis. And I usually cut
17:25
through the center of state and
17:25
when I cut through the center
17:26
state, I don't have good cell
17:26
phone service for a long time.
17:29
So if I'm just playing episodes,
17:29
like real time, and like
17:32
progressively downloading as I'm
17:32
listening, sometimes I'll hit a
17:35
section for a couple miles where
17:35
my episode gets interrupted.
17:37
That again is frustrating. And
17:37
so I like the fact that Apple is
17:40
building this you don't need to
17:40
be connected to listen to
17:43
podcasts into their app. I like
17:43
that they're putting safety
17:46
measures in place where it says
17:46
hey, if you're really not
17:48
listening after a couple of
17:48
weeks, we're gonna stop. So it's
17:50
not artificially inflating
17:50
podcasts or statistics numbers.
17:54
And so I'm a fan. I wish more
17:54
podcast apps would do it. I know
17:57
people who are like stats
17:57
purists say, well, are people
18:01
really listening? Or are they
18:01
just downloading. But for me,
18:04
being an avid podcast listener,
18:04
like I will unsubscribe to a
18:06
show, if I'm not interested,
18:06
listen to it anymore. I'm not
18:08
I'm interested in keeping my
18:08
queue clean. I don't want to
18:11
have a bunch of shows in there
18:11
that I don't listen to. So I'm
18:13
fine. Like, go ahead and
18:13
download it, have it ready for
18:16
me whether I'm connected the
18:16
internet or not, I want to be
18:18
able to listen. And I think
18:18
that's probably
18:19  Alban
the right way to do it.
18:19
Though I still know, the apple
18:23
podcast analytics that Travis
18:23
just did a video on show.
18:26
There's a significant amount of
18:26
people that are downloading
18:30
episodes and not listening to
18:30
them. You know, this is the end
18:33
of the episode. At the end of
18:33
that article. There's a quote,
18:37
automatic downloads provide a
18:37
seamless experience for
18:40
listeners like Kevin Finn.
18:40
They're not designed to measure
18:43
listener engagement, and may
18:43
provide an incomplete view of
18:46
this behavior because people can
18:46
download it, and they may not
18:48
actually play it. Analytics and
18:48
Apple podcasts Connect offer a
18:53
robust set of insights and
18:53
visualization tools to help
18:55
creators understand how
18:55
listeners are engaged with their
18:58
show and episodes. I completely
18:58
agree because if you log into
19:02
Apple podcast Connect, and you
19:02
go and you look at your
19:07
downloads, you can often see,
19:07
you know, the number I really
19:11
like is engaged listeners, what
19:11
percent what number of people
19:15
like actual people are listening
19:15
to more than 40% of this
19:19
episode. And that's the number I
19:19
want to know. I don't want to
19:22
know some like how many people
19:22
auto downloaded it. And if
19:27
Buzzsprout ever, we could
19:27
aggregate that stat across all
19:30
of the apps. I feel like that
19:30
would be the gold standard. Like
19:33
what number of people are
19:33
actually listening to a good bit
19:37
of this show. But at least Apple
19:37
provides a nice snapshot of that
19:42
your Apple is, you know, 50% of
19:42
your downloads, and they're
19:47
saying hey, there's 200 engaged
19:47
listeners, then you can kind of
19:51
extrapolate out is probably
19:51
somewhere in the range of 400
19:54
engaged listeners so you have an
19:54
idea. So I love that they
19:58
provided that stat. I think
19:58
They've done. they've updated us
20:02
quite a few times, and it's
20:02
gotten better and better. And,
20:05
yeah, the plate number and the
20:05
download numbers are very
20:08
important. But ultimately, I
20:08
really appreciate having some
20:13
insight kind of behind the
20:13
curtain how many people are
20:15
actually listening and listening
20:15
to a good bit of this episode
20:18
versus the number of people that
20:18
are just downloading it to their
20:22
phones?
20:23  Kevin
Yeah, I don't know,
20:23
sometimes I don't want to know,
20:26
necessarily that number. I don't
20:26
know, a lot of podcasters really
20:31
do, like, doesn't make me feel
20:31
better. It's always gonna be
20:34
lower. Like, if somebody walks
20:34
up to you and says, I don't know
20:37
you're walking in to it to a
20:37
gym, and they're like, hey, how
20:40
much can you benchpress like,
20:40
the number you're gonna tell
20:42
them is the most that you ever
20:42
benchpress the amount that you
20:48
work out with on a regular
20:48
basis, you're gonna say, oh,
20:50
there's one time I lived in a
20:50
small car. And like, that's the
20:53
number. And so when somebody
20:53
says, like, how many downloads
20:56
is your podcast? Guess like
20:56
you're saying, oh, like, what's
20:59
the max I've ever gotten for an
20:59
episode? And I think it's
21:02
totally fine. Because most of us
21:02
do this for fun and for passion.
21:06
Right? And, and like, so the
21:06
encouragement is, I think
21:10
outweighs sometimes, you know,
21:10
engaged listeners is actually a
21:14
much more accurate number. I
21:14
totally get it, it probably is a
21:17
much more accurate number. But
21:17
it's not as fun. And podcasting
21:21
should be fun. So yeah, that's
21:21
my two cents.
21:24  Alban
I'll be honest, we have
21:24
said, you know, we have our own
21:27
numbers for this show. And
21:27
they're going up over time. And
21:31
I feel like I'm happy where
21:31
they're at. I think we regularly
21:35
get 1500 plays. Yes, the max
21:35
we've ever benchpress. We do we
21:42
do all right. But the few times
21:42
that I've been at a conference
21:46
and someone said, Oh, I really
21:46
enjoyed Buzzcast, or we get a
21:49
really nice review. Or there's
21:49
actually a couple that have a
21:53
local podcaster meetup. And one
21:53
of them said she was walking
21:57
around their house, and she
21:57
heard my voice in their house.
22:00
And she was like, is Alban here?
22:00
It was like, Oh, no, I'm just
22:03
listening to Buzzcast, like, on
22:03
a speaker. And I was that meant
22:08
more to me than getting another
22:08
200 downloads, ed. So in the
22:13
end, I think you're right, like
22:13
the numbers, they're cool. It's
22:15
good to be able to track this
22:15
progress. But, you know, in my
22:20
heart of hearts, like if they're
22:20
actually 15, out, are people
22:24
listening to this content? I
22:24
don't think it would be as like
22:27
free flowing and natural,
22:27
because I'd be like, Whoa,
22:29
that's a pretty big number.
22:29
Well, and
22:31  Travis
I think there's a couple
22:31
different reasons why you would
22:35
want that specific number. One
22:35
would be if you're an
22:38
advertiser, and you're putting
22:38
money on a show, you want to
22:43
know, what's the actual reach,
22:43
you know, so in the radio days,
22:46
it's what's your hypothetical
22:46
reach of like your antennas?
22:50
It's like, Oh, we reach this
22:50
many million people, like, Yeah,
22:53
well, if 200 of them are
22:53
actually tuning into the show,
22:56
that's what I want to pay for, I
22:56
don't want to pay for your
22:58
potential reach. And so if
22:58
you're an advertiser looking to
23:01
sponsor podcasts, then that
23:01
might be a motivation to kind of
23:04
drill down to what's the actual
23:04
listener behavior. For me,
23:08
personally, I think it's just
23:08
more about getting in a ballpark
23:13
of an idea of how large your
23:13
audience is. And if it's growing
23:15
over time, like I don't really
23:15
look at our stats very often,
23:18
for Buzzcast, or any of the
23:18
shows that we do. But I'll just
23:21
check in every once in a while
23:21
and say, hey, are things still
23:23
going well, are certain episodes
23:23
doing better than others? And
23:25
that's about the extent of it.
23:25
You know, it's not, it's not
23:28
super helpful. It doesn't help
23:28
me make informed decisions about
23:30
how to make great episodes
23:30
moving forward, to try and
23:33
figure out which of our Buzzcast
23:33
episodes have more engaged
23:36
listeners versus plays than
23:36
others. Other than just to say,
23:40
Yeah, like, that seems like over
23:40
50% of people that listen to our
23:43
show on Apple podcasts are
23:43
engaged listeners. And that
23:47
feels about right, and that
23:47
feels good.
23:48  Kevin
And there is a standard
23:48
for this that is applied through
23:52
most professional hosting
23:52
companies. And it translates
23:54
over to the advertiser side as
23:54
well. And that's the IAB v2 spec
23:58
for measuring podcast downloads.
23:58
And there is a margin of error
24:02
factored into that when
24:02
advertisers do ad buys in
24:05
podcasts. And that just comes in
24:05
like what are they willing to
24:08
pay on a CPM basis. And so don't
24:08
miss hear what we're saying.
24:12
Like if you have an opportunity
24:12
to get a sponsor, or somebody to
24:14
advertise on your podcast, and
24:14
they want to know what your
24:17
reaches or how many downloads
24:17
your episodes are doing. Then
24:19
you would want to quote the
24:19
numbers that are shown in your
24:21
Buzzsprout statistics in your
24:21
Buzzsprout analytics. You don't
24:25
want to go into Apple podcasts
24:25
and look for engage listeners
24:27
and give them that number.
24:27
Because that's not the same
24:29
jargon. That's not the standard
24:29
people are using in the
24:31
industry. You want to use the
24:31
IAB v2 spec standard, which is
24:34
the number that Buzzsprout gives
24:34
you. And then when they say, oh,
24:38
like let's talk about a CPM
24:38
which is cost per 1000
24:41
downloads, that's going to be
24:41
anywhere between I mean, we've
24:44
seen crazy and we paid crazy
24:44
numbers. We paid 65 $70 CPM
24:47
before, all the way down to a 10
24:47
or $15. CPM. That is all based
24:53
on IP numbers, which takes into
24:53
account the fact that some
24:56
people will download your show
24:56
and not necessarily listen. So
25:00
Just to clarify that,
25:02  Alban
yeah, and that is all
25:02
right, based on the
25:05
effectiveness of years and years
25:05
and years of podcast ads, the
25:09
industry is kind of landed in
25:09
this range based on how
25:13
effective these ads have been.
25:13
When the you're giving the same
25:19
set of numbers and the set of
25:19
numbers that everyone's giving,
25:22
or the set of numbers that
25:22
Buzzsprout is providing, they're
25:25
not providing that engaged
25:25
listener, if we were using that
25:28
number, the quote unquote, CPM
25:28
would be something like $100,
25:33
you know, B could be way way
25:33
higher, because the actual
25:36
number of real people listening
25:36
would be maybe a lot closer. So
25:41
given the number inside of
25:41
Buzzsprout. But all these
25:44
numbers are interesting. And
25:44
hopefully this helps you
25:45
understand a little bit more of
25:45
why you may see Apple podcast
25:49
numbers drop off at some point.
25:49
Because if people don't listen
25:52
for 15 days, or they don't
25:52
listen to five episodes, Apple
25:56
is going to make the executive
25:56
decision to say, you know what,
25:59
maybe they're not interested
25:59
anymore.
26:04  Travis
So front of the podcast,
26:04
Eric Newsom, I'm not sure if he
26:07
considers himself a friend of
26:07
the podcast, but he was on the
26:09
podcast at one point back in the
26:09
day, he is a pretty big
26:15
influence in the podcasting
26:15
industry is responsible for
26:18
producing a lot of the big shows
26:18
that are still in the top 1020
26:22
in the world. He has a really
26:22
great newsletter. And then we
26:27
just want to talk through one
26:27
article that he put out that I
26:30
think is really a great
26:30
perspective for indie
26:34
podcasters. And the title is
26:34
five pieces of advice for those
26:37
interested in podcasting. So
26:37
just wanted to walk through
26:40
these, we'll link it in the show
26:40
notes if you wanna read for
26:42
yourself. But idea number one, I
26:42
thought was interesting, which
26:47
is, don't be a podcaster.
26:50  Alban
Great. Thanks for
26:50
bringing this to our attention.
26:56  Travis
It's like, hey, you're
26:56
interested in podcasting, don't
26:59
be a podcaster. Well, in the
26:59
point that he makes is, instead
27:03
of thinking of yourself as like,
27:03
I'm a person who is attached to
27:08
this medium, this way of
27:08
communicating information. Think
27:11
of yourself as an audio maker.
27:11
So and he draws the parallel of
27:15
how, for a long time radio
27:15
producers thought about
27:17
themselves. There's like, no, I
27:17
produced for radio. So then,
27:22
when podcasting comes along,
27:22
there's an opportunity to take
27:24
the audio content you're making,
27:24
and do something else with it.
27:29
But if you only think of
27:29
yourself as a radio producer,
27:31
then you'll miss that
27:31
opportunity. But if instead you
27:34
think of yourself as an audio
27:34
maker, then any opportunity that
27:37
you see, to be creative to
27:37
create content. And even if
27:41
podcasting evolves, or turns
27:41
into something else in the
27:44
future, that's not gonna stop
27:44
you from being able to continue
27:47
to to grow on your craft.
27:48  Alban
We've seen this before
27:48
where clubhouse comes up, and
27:51
people are kind of experimenting
27:51
and playing with clubhouse. And
27:53
then you have some people are
27:53
like, well, that's not a
27:55
podcast, technically. And it's
27:55
not Yeah, that's good point. But
27:58
it is audio content. And a lot
27:58
of the skills that you've
28:02
developed in podcasting might be
28:02
applicable. Now, clubhouse
28:05
turned out to not really be the
28:05
next big thing. But it's okay to
28:09
try out these new mediums as
28:09
they come up, we don't want to
28:12
end up being the radio producers
28:12
of the future, who are saying,
28:17
oh, I've only ever done stuff
28:17
over radio, because I'm only
28:20
comfortable. If this is
28:20
broadcast as like FM radio to a
28:25
local geographic area, things
28:25
are hopefully going to change
28:28
and hopefully change a lot over
28:28
the next 20 years in podcasting.
28:32
And be ready to experiment and
28:32
try new things out and leverage
28:37
the skills that you've already
28:37
created.
28:39  Travis
So the next idea, he
28:39
posits is to prioritize function
28:42
over format. And this is the one
28:42
that really caught my eye,
28:45
because it goes against a lot of
28:45
the prevailing wisdom of what a
28:50
good podcast is supposed to look
28:50
like. So most of the advice that
28:54
you hear is, if you want to grow
28:54
a successful show, then you need
28:59
to give people what they expect
28:59
that if they're coming to
29:02
Buzzcast, to listen to three
29:02
dudes talk about podcasting, you
29:06
need to deliver that
29:06
consistently. And that's how you
29:09
grow an audience. But Eric does
29:09
a really good job of making a
29:12
distinction that you shouldn't
29:12
start with the format of your
29:16
show, and then reverse engineer
29:16
your way back to the content.
29:19
Think about what do you want to
29:19
create? What do you want to
29:22
produce? And who do you want to
29:22
speak to, and then choose the
29:24
format that matches the best way
29:24
to communicate that. And so he
29:28
gives the idea of a 10 part
29:28
narrative series, which for a
29:32
long time, there were a lot of
29:32
podcasts trying to be the next
29:34
serial, right, what's the 10
29:34
episode serial podcast that we
29:39
can do that'll just like make a
29:39
big? Any ask the question, you
29:42
know, why not add in some
29:42
smaller episodes or an interview
29:46
with an expert that could be
29:46
like a diversion or a side
29:49
channel and think more
29:49
expansively about what your
29:52
podcast can be. And he makes the
29:52
point to that like, there are no
29:55
rules of podcasting. Like
29:55
there's there's nothing wrong
29:58
with saying you know, what,
29:58
We're gonna take a break from
30:01
our normal roundtable
30:01
discussion. And we're gonna do a
30:04
sci fi murder mystery version of
30:04
Buzzcast, talking about when
30:08
there was a DDoS attack, right.
30:08
And that is our Currently our
30:13
number one episode other than
30:13
one that's like embedded as an
30:16
example, somewhere on our
30:16
website, totally different
30:18
format, totally different
30:18
approach to making an episode
30:21
that we've never done before.
30:21
But that was the medium that was
30:24
gonna allow us to communicate
30:24
what we wanted to talk about in
30:28
the most engaging way possible.
30:28
So don't be afraid to
30:30
experiment.
30:31  Kevin
Yeah, I like that example
30:31
that, you know, normally what
30:34
we're doing is roundtable
30:34
discussion around the big topic
30:37
of podcasting, and what's
30:37
happening in the space. But
30:39
like, in that specific instance,
30:39
we had a story to tell. And so
30:42
how do we transition Buzzcast
30:42
this roundtable discussion into
30:45
a storytelling podcast? Like
30:45
we're not going to take three
30:48
episodes to slowly migrate how
30:48
we communicate the format of the
30:52
show, like it was totally fun
30:52
and fine to do one episode that
30:55
was very different. And I loved
30:55
how you intro that episode. You
30:59
know, we started right in on
30:59
something is very different here
31:02
in this episode, and you said
31:02
how we're going to, you know,
31:04
tell the story. And then the
31:04
next week, we're right back or
31:08
two weeks later, we're right
31:08
back to our regular format.
31:11
Really fun and something I don't
31:11
hear enough in podcasting. Like
31:15
it's it's predictable. And
31:15
there's there's there's a lot of
31:18
benefit to productivity, right.
31:18
Predictive predictability the
31:22
right word. Yeah. predicted. Oh,
31:22
my gosh, totally mess
31:25  Travis
rock. Grammar at the end
31:25
of this episode.
31:29  Kevin
Yeah, there's a huge
31:29
benefit to predictability.
31:31
Right? If I, the classic example
31:31
is I go to McDonald's here in
31:35
Florida. And then I traveled to
31:35
London and go to McDonald's,
31:37
like, I want that same, you
31:37
know, for better or worse
31:41
McDonald's experience. But in
31:41
the podcasting world, it's not
31:45
bad or terrible, or the end of
31:45
the world to break that
31:47
predictability to break that
31:47
format once in a while. If it's
31:51
good, if it's engaging content,
31:51
if it's fun, if you enjoy it, I
31:54
think your audience will enjoy
31:54
it. There's a lot, there are a
31:56
lot of podcasts that I listen to
31:56
over and over and over again.
31:59
And I've been listening for
31:59
years, and it's always the same
32:01
thing. And I enjoy the show.
32:01
It's why I continue to continue
32:03
to listen, but hey, I'm not
32:03
gonna be mad at you. If you try
32:06
something different when
32:06
episode. One of the things I
32:08
like, I don't listen to it as
32:08
much as I used to, it's starting
32:11
to phase out. But Conan O'Brien
32:11
needs a friend. He has some
32:14
different formats. And once in a
32:14
while, sometimes it's just him
32:16
and his executive producer, like
32:16
doing like game show style stuff
32:19
on their show. Most of the time.
32:19
It's him with a celebrity guests
32:22
that he's interviewing, but
32:22
every now and then it's
32:24
something different. And I think
32:24
that's fun. So I love that
32:26
point.
32:26  Alban
One of the times I think
32:26
that we come up with the
32:28
opposite advice, is there's lots
32:28
of people and I think Travis and
32:32
I are in this group that are
32:32
teaching, not just podcasting,
32:36
but teaching content creation,
32:36
right. And so we're saying this
32:40
might be your first experience,
32:40
really putting yourself out
32:43
there online, you might not have
32:43
ever done a YouTube video or,
32:47
you know, written blog posts.
32:47
And so now you're getting into
32:49
podcasting, this is kind of that
32:49
first experience that first
32:52
step. And the most important
32:52
advice in my mind, when you're
32:57
starting out a creative venture,
32:57
and you're going to put yourself
33:01
out there is just be consistent,
33:01
and maybe limit the moving parts
33:06
in the beginning.
33:06
experimentation is very
33:09
important. being open to
33:09
creativity is very important.
33:13
But I really love focusing on
33:13
like, hey, in the beginning,
33:17
we're just getting ourselves
33:17
ready. And used do this once a
33:22
week getting something out once
33:22
a week putting out a new piece
33:25
of content. Because if you could
33:25
do that, and you start building
33:28
that consistency, then it's
33:28
going to become much easier for
33:31
you to do a unique episode, when
33:31
Travis put together the really
33:35
full narrative episode, we'd
33:35
already done something like 40
33:40
episodes of Buzzcast. So it
33:40
wasn't like episode two, we're
33:43
trying something new episode
33:43
three, a totally different
33:45
format. There's kind of a
33:45
balance to be played between
33:50
finding a format and sticking to
33:50
it, but also keeping space open
33:54
for experimentation.
33:55  Travis
Well, we actually
33:55
experiment quite a bit on this
33:57
show. Like it was just a couple
33:57
episodes ago, we had our game
34:00
show segment, where
34:02  Alban
we just had a huge
34:02
etymology.
34:05  Travis
And so what is the root
34:05
of Paris, you know, and so that
34:08
could have totally been a dud.
34:08
And everybody's like, what the
34:10
heck are you guys doing? You
34:10
know, want to hear more about,
34:13
you know why Spotify is the
34:13
scourge of the earth. But the
34:17
feedback was very positive. So
34:17
there's a good chance you're
34:19
gonna hear this or that on a
34:19
future episode. But then there's
34:22
other things that we've tried,
34:22
it's like, that didn't really
34:24
work the way we thought it
34:24
would. So we're just going to
34:26
keep, you know, throwing
34:26
spaghetti up against the wall
34:29
and seeing what sticks. And
34:29
that's what keeps it fun. That's
34:32
what keeps this show fun for us,
34:32
and hopefully fun for you guys
34:35
to listen to, that we're gonna
34:35
talk about podcasting. And we're
34:38
gonna make sure you're kind of
34:38
up to date on what's going on
34:40
with Buzzsprout and in the
34:40
general world of podcasting, but
34:43
hopefully this is a an
34:43
experience that we all kind of
34:46
grow with together, and that the
34:46
show will naturally kind of
34:49
evolve. As you know, we as
34:49
creators, continue to grow. And
34:54
then as the industry continues
34:54
to evolve,
34:57  Kevin
yeah, I thought this was
34:57
a great article. Those two
34:59
points We're awesome, he makes
34:59
five, that the one that jumped
35:02
out at me was was Don't be
35:02
boring. I say that's resonates
35:07
with me because we, and maybe I
35:07
shouldn't say we, I say I speak
35:12
less, I'm a normally low energy
35:12
person. And I find myself like
35:16
struggling sometimes to keep the
35:16
energy high, to keep it upbeat
35:19
to not be boring. And so that
35:19
was my favorite piece of advice.
35:23
I think that spoke right? To me,
35:23
it's one of the reasons that we
35:25
don't do a live show, because I
35:25
think one of the opportunities
35:30
we have in podcasting is to be
35:30
not just great. Well, let me say
35:34
it this way, part of being a
35:34
great content creator is being a
35:37
very good editor. And so that's
35:37
the the one of the mantle's that
35:41
Travis wears for us is that I
35:41
think we've said this before is
35:44
that typically, we'll record
35:44
well over an hour, but our
35:46
episodes end up being around 40
35:46
minutes. And he could probably
35:50
even cut more of that. He's
35:50
just, you know, he's being nice
35:54
to us. And
35:54  Alban
he wants to make sure I
35:54
have some airtime and the
35:56
episodes, that's why we included
35:56
the garbage, he lets
35:59  Kevin
us ramble a little bit,
35:59
but it's probably not a bad rule
36:01
of thumb to, you know, if
36:01
you're, if you're editing 50% of
36:05
the content that you recorded,
36:05
that's probably not bad, you're
36:08
probably leaving more in
36:08
usually, then you need to. And
36:12
the tighter you make it, the
36:12
more your listener would benefit
36:15
from that. Because you're you're
36:15
really honing in on what are its
36:18
most valuable stuff that we
36:18
covered in this episode. And so
36:22
I love that point, don't be
36:22
boring. And I'm just going to
36:24
tie that in with my own point,
36:24
which is, like, be a very harsh
36:27
editor,
36:28  Travis
right? Because you're
36:28
curating an experience for your
36:30
listener, you know, so when
36:30
someone shows up to a live
36:33
event, the expectation is very
36:33
different than listening to an
36:36
audio show that they can listen
36:36
to on their own time, right. And
36:40
you think about all the new
36:40
podcasts that are coming out,
36:41
like podcasting is just going to
36:41
continue to blow up, which is
36:44
great, because it's going to
36:44
continue to get more exposure,
36:47
more Hulu, exclusive television
36:47
shows made about it. And that's
36:50
going to help all of our shows
36:50
do better. If we can stand out
36:55
if we can leverage that
36:55
experience, to continue to make
36:57
content that's going to be more
36:57
appealing than what else is out
37:01
there. And so, definitely don't
37:01
take for granted that you're
37:06
asking your listeners every
37:06
single week, to set aside time
37:09
to listen to what you have to
37:09
say. Make sure you respect that
37:12
time. And make sure you respect
37:12
the trust they're giving you to
37:15
make something worth listening
37:15
to. So I think that's definitely
37:17
a great point, Kevin.
37:18  Kevin
Yeah, I don't know either
37:18
of you guys like me. Are you?
37:21
Are you kind of brutal when you
37:21
listen to podcasts? See, I feel
37:23
this personal connection to the
37:23
podcast I listened to. And so I
37:26
feel bad. But I do it still,
37:26
even though I feel bad, but I'll
37:30
be sitting there listening to a
37:30
podcast and I will no wake up my
37:33
phone and I'm hitting that
37:33
forward skip button, like ding
37:35
ding ding ding ding, like you're
37:35
just rambling. You're boring me
37:38
now. And I feel bad because I
37:38
feel like I'm listening to a
37:41
conversation with a friend and I
37:41
start hitting fastforward on my
37:43
friend, which I wish you could
37:43
do in real life. You can't This
37:46  Alban
is literally your
37:46
experience with like talking to
37:48
Travis, right? You're like
37:52  Kevin
you would never do that
37:52
in real life. And it's good
37:54
thing that you can't, you've
37:54
heard a lot of feelings. But in
37:56
the podcast world, I can do
37:56
that. And I do feel a little bit
37:58
like, I feel a little cringy
37:58
doing it. But I'm still gonna do
38:02
it. Because you didn't edit good
38:02
enough.
38:04  Alban
I am never find myself
38:04
doing that. I do skip some ads.
38:09  Kevin
That's the southern
38:09
polite boy.
38:11  Alban
I mean, I also listen on
38:11
one acts. I think that mostly
38:15
for me podcasts are I'm trying
38:15
to find something that I'm
38:18
trying to find shows that are
38:18
actually very heavily edited.
38:21
And they're mostly like, you
38:21
know, maybe a bit deeper. So I'm
38:25
kind of want time to digest what
38:25
they're talking about. And then
38:29
I'm often doing something else
38:29
I'm driving, or I'm running or
38:31
I'm doing something. And so I'm
38:31
not sitting there thinking like
38:34
alright, wrap this up, let's
38:34
move on to the next thing. I'm
38:37
often like, kind of thankful
38:37
that it's a three hour episode,
38:40
and I have something to do
38:40
during a long run or some you
38:44
know, whatever, I'm up to that
38:44
time.
38:46  Kevin
Yeah, but I know you
38:46
listen to ATP like I do, you
38:49
don't ever get the urge to hit
38:49
that 32nd foward skip button a
38:53
little bit when you're listening
38:53
to ATP.
38:55  Alban
Every single time I
38:55
listened to pretty much the
38:58
entire episode.
38:59  Kevin
Oh my gosh, you've got
38:59
more patients than I do.
39:02  Alban
Now I that's one while
39:02
I'll kind of zone out. But you
39:06
know, in the middle of doing
39:06
yard work or um, you know, doing
39:09
something else. So it's kind of
39:09
nice to have three friends that
39:11
are chatting about the latest
39:11
Apple devices. And if I zone out
39:15
a little bit not I'm not, you
39:15
know, going, Oh my gosh, what
39:18
did I miss, you know, there's
39:18
other shows that are much more
39:21
in depth that if I zone out, I'm
39:21
like, I kind of need to back up
39:24
and re listen to that really
39:24
understand what they're talking
39:27
about
39:27  Kevin
my deal with 80. So ATPs
39:27
x tech podcast, and they just
39:30
talked about Apple stuff. And
39:30
I'd love to show it because I
39:32
love the personalities of the
39:32
people that are on it. But it's
39:35
about two and a half hours every
39:35
week. And really the bandwidth
39:38
that I've decided in my mind
39:38
that I can give to that is about
39:41
an hour. So I listened on to x
39:41
so that brings it down to like
39:45
an hour 30 or 40 you know,
39:45
somewhere in there, little under
39:47
an hour 30 and then with my
39:47
skipping get the highlight but I
39:51
think like I just I just look at
39:51
podcast listening and engagement
39:55
through the lens of how I listen
39:55
to podcasts. And so I don't know
39:58
if that's good advice or bad
39:58
advice. But I think as a
40:00
podcaster, you should do that
40:00
you should, you should think
40:03
like, how do I listen? How do I
40:03
engage? Like what speed do I
40:06
listen, and the show is yours,
40:06
so why not crafted for people
40:10
like you. And maybe that
40:13  Travis
helps well, and just to
40:13
give anyone listening, some self
40:17
serving motivation, the podcasts
40:17
that get shared, that really do
40:20
well, with word of mouth
40:20
promotion, which is still the
40:23
number one way that people
40:23
discover new podcasts,
40:26
recommendations from friends, is
40:26
to make something not boring, is
40:30
to make something that's really
40:30
engaging, really unique that
40:33
would compel someone to out of
40:33
their way to say, you should
40:35
listen to this 45 minute episode
40:35
from this podcast. You've never
40:38
heard that before. Right? So if
40:38
you're just another podcast, in
40:43
the sea of 100,000 options, of
40:43
you know, shooting the breeze
40:47
and talking about current events
40:47
with your buddies, and your goal
40:50
is to create something
40:50
substantial, and that's probably
40:53
not gonna work out the way you
40:53
want it to. Wow. Some tough love
40:57
but coming from a good place.
40:59  Kevin
Interesting fact. You
40:59
know, the number two way that
41:01
people find podcasts right now,
41:02  Travis
YouTube? No, mailers,
41:02
no.
41:06  Kevin
billboards. It's from
41:06
other podcasts
41:10  Travis
interesting. So like
41:10
interviews or promo swaps or
41:13
things like that
41:13  Kevin
cross promo. Yeah, cross
41:13
promos, podcasts that are kind
41:18
of associated with each other,
41:18
stuff like that. Yeah, but
41:21
podcast mentions inside of other
41:21
podcasts that 46% of people say
41:27
they found at least one of the
41:27
podcasts that they listened to
41:30
by listening to another podcast,
41:32  Travis
I would say that's true.
41:32
For me, I would say probably
41:34
about 40% of my library is
41:34
things that I discovered through
41:38
listening to other podcasts. The
41:38
more you know, the more you
41:41
know, the more you know. Well,
41:41
as
41:43  Alban
always, thanks, everyone
41:43
for sticking with us. Thanks for
41:45
not skipping too much of this
41:45
episode. And we appreciate all
41:49
of you being here. But until
41:49
next time, keep podcasting.
41:58
Everybody's thanks for sticking
41:58
around to the end of the
42:00
episode. This is Alban here
42:00
dropping in some dynamic content
42:04
to tell you about some updates
42:04
to our dynamic content features,
42:09
we're continuing to move forward
42:09
with all the tools allowing you
42:14
to drop ads and announcements
42:14
into all of your episodes, so
42:18
that you can record something
42:18
once and automatically have
42:21
added to the beginning or end of
42:21
all of your episodes, the new
42:25
updates that we've made to
42:25
dynamic content. Number one, if
42:29
you have an announcement that's
42:29
maybe only applicable for a
42:31
short period, and you replace it
42:31
with something else. Well, now
42:35
that announcement stays in
42:35
something we're calling our
42:38
dynamic content library. The
42:38
library is a list of all of the
42:43
different announcements or
42:43
advertisements, or just little
42:46
pieces that you've dropped into
42:46
your episodes over time so that
42:49
you can reapply them whenever
42:49
you would like. The second piece
42:53
is that now those are tracked
42:53
for how many times they've been
42:56
played. So if you have an ad
42:56
read, and you want to report
42:59
back to your sponsor, and tell
42:59
them how many times it's been
43:02
downloaded. Well now you know,
43:02
because that content may be
43:06
spread across 30 different
43:06
podcast episodes, you want to be
43:10
able to count the stats for all
43:10
of those for the entire time
43:14
that it was out in the world.
43:14
Reach out to us on Twitter, let
43:18
us know how you were using
43:18
dynamic content and the new
43:20
dynamic content library. We'll
43:20
see you in a couple weeks. Bye