Marketing In Times of Recovery

Marketing In Times Of Crisis has changed its name to Marketing In Times of Recovery. It's still a bi-weekly interview-led podcast series featuring inspirational built environment business leaders but more with a look to the future. We’ve had to weather crisis’ before and podcast listeners hear lively conversations, jam-packed with hints, tips and takeaways that you can apply to your business now. Hosted by Ayo Abbas, Founder / Consultant, Abbas Marketing. Subscribe now, rate, review and help us to spread the word.

https://www.abbasmarketing.com/mitc-podcast

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episode 22: Ep 22: Events, Career Development and Employee Ownership, Vivi Koroma Kala, Jestico + Whiles [transcript]


Hello and welcome to the latest episode of Marketing In Times of Recovery hosted by  Ayo Abbas, a built environment marketing consultant and founder of Abbas Marketing.

It’s April 29 2021 and today’s guest is Vivi Koroma Kala who does the marketing at architectural firm Jestico and Whiles.  

In our discussion, we talk about their work as an employee-owned practice, how they tackle digital marketing and social media and events.  We also touch on our mutual love for all things career development related by Amazing If.

If you’re a regular listener to the show – make sure you subscribe so you never miss out on an episode and help us to spread the word.

Rate and review us
Please don’t forget to rate and review us if you’re listening on Apple podcasts as it’s lovely to hear what you think plus it helps us to spread the word

Resources
Jestico + Whiles
Abbas Marketing
Amazing If
Build Up
The Architecture Marketing Forum 


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 2021-07-16  26m
 
 
00:05  Ayo Abbas
Hello, and welcome to
00:05
the latest episode of Marketing
00:08
In Times of Recovery. The
00:08
podcast has changed his name as
00:11
I really don't think you can
00:11
operate in a state of flux for
00:14
over a year. And recovery really
00:14
feels like where it's at the
00:17
moment. So I am your host, Ayo
00:17
Abbas. I'm a built environment
00:22
marketing consultant. And I
00:22
basically deliver strategy
00:25
content and campaigns for
00:25
companies who are in the built
00:28
environment and who really want
00:28
to do something different and
00:31
stand out from the crowd. Today,
00:31
it's April the 29th 2021. My
00:36
guest is the lovely Vivi Koroma
00:36
Kala who is the marketing person
00:39
at architectural firm Jestico +
00:39
Whiles. In our discussion, we
00:43
talk about their practice and
00:43
the fact that they are an
00:45
employee and trust, how they
00:45
tackle digital marketing and
00:49
social media and their approach
00:49
to events. We also look at our
00:52
mutual love of all things career
00:52
development related by Amazing
00:55
If. If you're a regular listen
00:55
to the show, make sure you
00:58
subscribe so you never miss out
00:58
on an episode and help us to
01:01
spread the word. Anyway, now
01:01
let's get on with listening to
01:04
the interview with Vivi. Enjoy
01:12
Vivi thanks so much, and welcome
01:12
to the show. So can you give me
01:17
a brief intro to who you are and
01:17
what your role is at Jestico +
01:20
Whiles?
01:21  Vivi Koroma Kala
Yes. So my
01:21
name is Vivi Koroma Kala, and I
01:24
look after Marketing and
01:24
Communications at employee owned
01:28
architecture, and interior
01:28
design firm Jestico + Whiles. My
01:33
role at the practice is quite
01:33
varied. No one day is the same,
01:38
you can probably attest to that
01:38
being a fellow marketer. One of
01:43
my core values as a professional
01:43
is variety. So I appreciate that
01:46
the role that I'm in at the
01:46
moment is providing me with
01:49
that. So in terms of day-to-day
01:49
responsibilities. I look after
01:52
traditional marketing
01:52
activities, promoting the
01:55
practice and our services,
01:55
through high quality messaging,
01:59
maintaining a marketing calendar
01:59
for activities and marketing
02:03
material, digital marketing as
02:03
well, covering social media as
02:07
well as website and email
02:07
marketing, award submissions,
02:12
project photography and
02:12
videography, virtual and
02:14
hopefully, fingers crossed in
02:14
person events in the future. I
02:19
also look after memberships and
02:19
PR and media relations alongside
02:24
an external PR consultant.
02:28  Ayo Abbas
Wow, I'd like to say
02:28
that's a really easy role and
02:32
I'm sure you can do that in your
02:32
sleep. It's huge.
02:38
It really struck me was actually
02:38
you said about the employee
02:41
owned when you're introducing
02:41
the firm is that a really
02:44
important part of the firm?
02:46  Vivi Koroma Kala
Yeah, I think
02:46
it's a part of, yeah, it's
02:49
really part of our values. And
02:49
kind of the way we see ourselves
02:53
the way we treat each other, you
02:53
know, it very much runs as part
02:58
of the ethos of the practice and
02:58
not many architecture. I mean,
03:03
there's not many employee owned
03:03
architecture firms out there. So
03:07
we're really proud to have been
03:07
one of the first, you know, way
03:11
back then. Yeah.
03:14  Ayo Abbas
A few like, Make's
03:14
one isn't it. Yeah, that's right
03:18
Formation Architects but there
03:18
are actually practices starting
03:21
to look at that as a kind of
03:21
model going forward, which I
03:23
think is quite important in
03:23
terms of succession planning,
03:26
and, and all that kind of stuff
03:26
and feeling part of something as
03:29
well. Exactly,
03:30  Vivi Koroma Kala
exactly. It's
03:30
that feeling of belonging. Yeah,
03:33
definitely.
03:36  Ayo Abbas
And also, I'm going
03:36
to pick up on something else you
03:37
said, you said about your own
03:37
employee core value. Can you
03:40
tell me more about that
03:41  Vivi Koroma Kala
So I'm all
03:41
into, you know, career
03:44
development. And, you know, I'm
03:44
really trying to be attuned with
03:49
kind of what my strengths are
03:49
and what I can get better at.
03:52
And so one of the things I've
03:52
identified is, you know, that I,
03:56
I really thrive in in roles that
03:56
provide variety, and you know,
04:00
that chop and change, and I
04:00
think marketing, because it's
04:03
ever changing. I mean, we've
04:03
just seen with, you know, the
04:06
whole lockdown, and, you know,
04:06
everything being pushed,
04:10
suddenly pushed to digital. You
04:10
know, I really appreciate that.
04:15
And I feel as if, yeah, that's
04:15
kind of where my strength lies.
04:20  Ayo Abbas
And I have seen
04:20
online that you talk to the
04:22
amazing about the amazing,
04:22
Amazing If Helen Tupper.
04:25  Vivi Koroma Kala
Yes. I nation,
04:25
you Yeah, yeah. And, yeah, it's
04:34
actually based on their book,
04:34
The Squiggly Career where they
04:38
talk about, have you read that?
04:38
Have you read that book?
04:41  Ayo Abbas
I've got it upstairs
04:41
and I've seen Sarah speak at a
04:45
couple of events as well.
04:47
Yeah, they're great for career
04:47
development.
04:49  Vivi Koroma Kala
Yeah, yeah.
04:49
Yeah, exactly. Amazing, and
04:53
informative podcast as well.
04:53
Yeah, you're right.
04:57  Ayo Abbas
See I stalk you!! In
04:57
terms of transitioning out of
05:02
lockdown, how's it been coming
05:02
out of the I guess the phased
05:05
lockdown that we're all kind of
05:05
coming out of at the moment? Has
05:07
that changed anything about what
05:07
you're doing marketing wise? Or
05:10
how have you found it?
05:11  Vivi Koroma Kala
Yeah. So it's
05:11
a real kind of road to recovery,
05:15
isn't it? Right now. And so I
05:15
actually returned to the
05:19
practice following my maternity
05:19
leave after lockdown, two. So
05:24
it's been a real learning curve.
05:24
Yeah, exactly. So I really hit
05:31
the ground running, especially
05:31
as most things turned digital. I
05:34
mean, one of the first things I
05:34
did was engage in a virtual
05:38
event as part of the Build
05:38
Network, which was really,
05:43
really interesting. But yeah,
05:43
it's basically been a real
05:46
transition back into digital,
05:46
and really kind of making that a
05:51
real focus in our marketing
05:51
plans going forwards.
05:55  Ayo Abbas
And how much digital
05:55
did you do before all this kind
05:57
of lockdown? Yeah, I guess, was
05:57
a big part, or was it more
06:01
face-to-face? And now that
06:01
transition? How have you found?
06:04  Vivi Koroma Kala
Yeah, I would
06:04
say it was still a, you know, a
06:07
big part of our plans, we were
06:07
still very active on our social
06:13
media channels as well. But I
06:13
feel the main difference has
06:18
been that events turning
06:18
digital, were quite a sociable
06:22
office. So we really love a good
06:22
event or tea. And so, you know,
06:26
obviously having the studio
06:26
space that accommodated that and
06:29
not being able to use that and
06:29
instead, you know, move into the
06:32
virtual space was a real
06:32
exercise. But yes, fingers
06:37
crossed. Hopefully, you know, as
06:37
you know, lockdown is easing,
06:40
and we're looking forward to
06:40
kind of, you know, just on the
06:43
road to recovery. And, yeah,
06:43
hopefully in person events will
06:47
return soon in some form
06:50  Ayo Abbas
do you think that's
06:50
something you'll be doing this
06:52
year, do you have a kind of, or
06:52
you just kind of wait and see
06:55
and see what happens?
06:56  Vivi Koroma Kala
Yeah, I mean,
06:56
we do keep marketing kind of
07:01
calendar, where we speak to a
07:01
lot of our stakeholders. And
07:07
right now, we worked on the
07:07
Pitzhanger Manor Gallery
07:12
project, which is a museum and
07:12
cultural venue in Ealing,
07:18
originally created by Sir John
07:18
Soan, and it's been a 10 year
07:21
labour of love for our practice.
07:21
We, yeah, we worked on the
07:25
restoration and launched it back
07:25
in 2019. Now, they've been up
07:30
and down with, you know,
07:30
lockdown, and the whole
07:33
pandemic, but they're looking
07:33
forward to reopening on the 27th
07:36
of May. Now what that's gonna
07:36
look like, we both, you know,
07:41
don't know, it's kind of like
07:41
waiting to see the exhibition is
07:45
going to be a year long
07:45
exhibition called Soan restored,
07:49
which we're proud to be
07:49
sponsoring. And so hopefully we
07:54
can get an event, you know,
07:54
together around that, possibly
08:00
before the end of the year,
08:00
maybe next year, you know, play
08:05
Exactly.
08:07  Ayo Abbas
Like you do, I think
08:07
the whole thing at the moment is
08:10
just flexibility isn't there?
08:10
You have to just be open to it.
08:12
Exactly. And not get upset by
08:12
it. It's like you're building an
08:16
uncertainty. Yeah, that's,
08:16
that's, that's the plan right
08:18
now is like building uncertainty
08:18
and then just roll with the
08:21
punches. Right? I completely
08:21
agree. rolling with the punches.
08:29
So what's the kind of practice
08:29
set up for marketing is do you
08:31
work with anyone else? Or is it
08:31
mainly you? And you've got a few
08:34
consultants you work? Or how
08:34
does? How do you work?
08:36  Vivi Koroma Kala
Yeah, so right
08:36
now, it's just myself and a
08:40
director in charge of marketing.
08:40
But we also have an in-house
08:45
graphic designer who I work
08:45
really closely with. And as well
08:50
as that we have a working
08:50
communication group internally,
08:54
which consists of architects and
08:54
interior designers who work in
08:58
different sectors, which kind of
08:58
helps close the communication
09:03
loop as it were, and encourages
09:03
wider practice involvement. For
09:09
me, marketing has always been a
09:09
collective exercise. So I really
09:13
appreciate you know, having the
09:13
architects interior designers
09:16
involved in the process as well.
09:18  Ayo Abbas
Yeah. And I guess
09:18
they feed you stories, because
09:21
it's always projects always
09:21
changing. Yeah. You know, what's
09:24
going on in the breakfast?
09:24
Exactly. You never told me? You
09:28
find out on the day, an hour
09:28
before? Like, why didn't you
09:33
tell me we could have done so
09:33
much. It's great that you've got
09:39
that set up? And in terms of
09:39
Jestico + Wiles they're always
09:42
quite positive about marketing,
09:42
aren't they from from what I
09:44
know, I mean, in terms of the
09:44
culture of the practice and how
09:46
it works?
09:47  Vivi Koroma Kala
Yeah, we try.
09:47
Yeah, we try and get people
09:50
involved. You know, it's all
09:50
about that and hence why having
09:54
this communication group has
09:54
been quite important to have
09:57
people involved in the process,
09:57
and also I find with architects,
10:01
you know, having them think
10:01
about marketing early on in
10:06
their design, you know, because,
10:06
you know, they also need to
10:10
think about the outputs of the
10:10
project, whether it's, you know,
10:13
the project images or even
10:13
capturing the process. For
10:17
example, I work closely, we've
10:17
got an in-house maker, called
10:21
Luca, he's brilliant. And we
10:21
work quite closely to make sure
10:27
that we capture some of the
10:27
things that he's working on for
10:31
projects in order to aid the
10:31
marketing effort, you know,
10:37
further down the line. So I do
10:37
have content and lots of lovely
10:41
images and collateral that I can
10:41
push out there.
10:46  Ayo Abbas
And how do you kind
10:46
of work in terms of social
10:48
media, media and digital? I
10:48
mean, what's your kind of
10:50
approach? How do you tackle
10:50
things? What do you share?
10:52  Vivi Koroma Kala
Yeah, so
10:52
social media can be such a huge
10:56
effort, you know, but what I
10:56
find with social media is that
11:02
consistency is key. You know,
11:02
over the years, it's what I've
11:06
learned. And Firstly, one of the
11:06
things that we asked ourselves
11:09
as a practice was, which
11:09
channels our clients and
11:12
collaborators are most likely to
11:12
be using. And, you know, you
11:16
don't want to spread yourself
11:16
too thin, you want to go to
11:20
where your clients are already.
11:20
So there are so many social
11:24
media channels that you can be
11:24
on. But we've identified that
11:28
our core market is primarily,
11:28
they primarily use LinkedIn,
11:33
Twitter, Instagram, and each
11:33
channel for very different
11:37
purposes to as a practice, we
11:37
try not to get caught up with
11:43
the vanity metrics, you know,
11:43
the number of followers and, you
11:46
know, all the numbers. Oh, my
11:46
gosh, that conversation. But
11:56
instead, you know, we tried to
11:56
concentrate on engagement and
12:00
said, you know, looking at those
12:00
kinds of numbers, and our main
12:04
focus is, because we have a lot
12:04
of international clients and
12:08
projects, and social media has
12:08
proved to be super valuable in
12:12
connecting bridges. So we try to
12:12
focus on nurturing
12:15
relationships, interacting with
12:15
our online community, rather
12:19
than, you know, number of
12:19
followers.
12:22  Ayo Abbas
And has that been
12:22
working? I guess, especially as,
12:24
as we've had to, I guess, we've
12:24
been locked down for quite
12:27
a long time really
12:27  Vivi Koroma Kala
we have been,
12:27
we have been, but I feel as if
12:30
it's a way of keeping in touch
12:30
with all of our consultants and
12:34
clients and that sort of thing.
12:34
That's, that's quite valuable,
12:37
isn't it?
12:38  Ayo Abbas
And did you take your
12:38
events online as well? or How
12:41
did they go? Because you had an
12:41
events programme and things like
12:43
that?
12:44  Vivi Koroma Kala
Yeah. So that
12:44
was, that was the big push isn't
12:47
the big change. And so a lot of
12:47
our events got pushed to
12:52
becoming more virtual, you know,
12:52
using Zoom, we have long
12:59
standing relationships with
12:59
industry organisations, such as
13:02
Open City in New London
13:02
Architecture, we're involved in
13:05
quite a few mentoring programmes
13:05
as well. And these all had to go
13:08
online. Yeah. So they all have
13:08
to turn virtual. But, you know,
13:13
going forward, we're excited for
13:13
what's to come, hopefully with
13:17
more in person events with these
13:17
kinds of types of organisations.
13:21  Ayo Abbas
And did you find, I
13:21
mean, some, some organisations
13:24
have found going online has
13:24
given them more reach and
13:26
impact. I mean, what did you
13:26
find? But yeah, you can catch
13:30
more people or?
13:32  Vivi Koroma Kala
Yeah, I feel I
13:32
feel it's quite difficult to
13:36
judge, isn't it? But generally,
13:39  Ayo Abbas
it really is.
13:40  Vivi Koroma Kala
Yeah, it's a
13:40
different feeling. But
13:43
generally, I mean, having a look
13:43
at the metrics, you know, the
13:46
number of people that attend and
13:46
people who share and engage with
13:50
our posts, I feel it has
13:50
increased slightly to say, you
13:55
know, the year before, which is
13:55
promising, because I feel as if
13:59
you know, virtual and digital,
13:59
in some shape or form, it's here
14:04
to stay, isn't it? Yeah,
14:06  Ayo Abbas
I think it is, I
14:06
think it's going to be a hybrid
14:08
or even like you're doing in
14:08
person will be taken virtually
14:12
or, you know, you might record
14:12
it or I think there's gonna be
14:14
more, the The only thing more
14:14
widely and well, more, I guess
14:18
holistically about the whole
14:18
thing in terms of an event and
14:20
what and what can be done, which
14:20
is, which is a good thing.
14:22  Vivi Koroma Kala
Yeah, I agree.
14:22
I agree.
14:24  Ayo Abbas
completely,
14:24
completely. So what kind of
14:26
campaigns and plans do you have
14:26
lined up for the rest of the
14:28
year apart from your event? Or
14:28
your new gallery? The fingers
14:32
crossed? Yes,
14:32  Vivi Koroma Kala
exactly. So
14:32
alongside the kind of exhibition
14:36
that we have planned with
14:36
Pitshanger Manor and Gallery
14:41
Soane restored exhibition, and
14:41
we've also trying to organise a
14:46
couple of walking tours we're
14:46
real fans of walking around some
14:51
of our Yeah, some of our London
14:51
projects and obviously, you
14:55
know, COVID, secure COVID
14:55
compliant you know, playing it
15:00
by ear, but it would be great to
15:00
host some of these tours around
15:04
some of our housing projects in
15:04
London. Yeah, so looking forward
15:10
to that Fingers crossed.
15:13  Ayo Abbas
That's gonna be
15:13
that's such a lovely idea. It's
15:15
so simple. And I can't. I mean,
15:15
that's one of the practical
15:19
things that have come out of
15:19
this, isn't it? I think it was
15:21
Foster's, that kind of kind of
15:21
walking tours for children and
15:24
stuff like that. Just a really
15:24
lovely idea. And it's like,
15:28
actually, that stuff we can do
15:28
right now.
15:31  Vivi Koroma Kala
Exactly. And I
15:31
think another great thing about
15:34
walking tours is that it
15:34
involves people across the
15:37
practice. So you can have two or
15:37
three, you know, architects,
15:41
interior designers, you know,
15:41
our architectural assistants
15:44
help with the organising of the
15:44
tour, speaking about their role
15:48
in the projects, you know, and
15:48
the project as a whole. So it's
15:52
definitely a collective
15:52
exercise.
15:55  Ayo Abbas
Lovely. It's really,
15:55
really nice. So at the moment, I
15:58
guess at the moment, there are
15:58
lots of kind of spin-off
16:00
practices, new people starting
16:00
out in the architectural world.
16:04
I mean, what kind of advice do
16:04
you think you'd give to them? If
16:06
they ever, you know, if you're
16:06
starting from scratch marketing
16:08
wise, what do you say for new
16:08
practice? Do
16:09  Vivi Koroma Kala
you? Oh, it's,
16:09
oh, what can they learn? And
16:14
that's a great question. I think
16:14
the first thing that comes to
16:17
mind is formulate a marketing
16:17
plan or a marketing, you know,
16:22
calendar of some sort that
16:22
includes several different
16:25
strategies for cross promotion,
16:25
including, most importantly, a
16:30
digital strategy, I feel. But
16:30
the one thing to remember,
16:34
especially for, you know,
16:34
practices starting out is that a
16:37
marketing plan isn't written in
16:37
stone, it's ever in flux. So
16:42
take a flexible approach. And
16:42
revisions, you know, revisions
16:47
to the core plan is normal. And
16:47
it's a part of the marketing
16:50
process, you know, the most
16:50
important part of you know,
16:53
having a plan is to revisit it
16:53
and to review the plan
16:57
regularly. So that's, that's one
16:57
tip I would say for. Yeah.
17:02
Imagine practices.
17:04  Ayo Abbas
Make a plan? Yeah.
17:04
The fact that when it comes to
17:10
myself last year, it's like, I
17:10
made my plan in February.
17:15  Vivi Koroma Kala
This is very
17:15
much the nature of a plan.
17:18
Because
17:20  Ayo Abbas
No and not getting
17:20
too upset about it. Yeah. It's
17:24
not happening. Yeah. Yeah,
17:24
exactly. So anyway, so I was
17:31
when I was doing my research on
17:31
Jestico & Whiles. Wow. Oh, look,
17:34
it was my birthday last week.
17:34
And I'd like I'm also born in
17:37
1977.
17:41  Vivi Koroma Kala
Happy belated,
17:41
by the way.
17:43  Ayo Abbas
Thank you. I was just
17:43
wondering like, so in terms of
17:47
newer firms or more established
17:47
firms? Like just because do you
17:49
think there was a difference in
17:49
terms of how people tackle their
17:52
marketing and what I need to be
17:52
known for? Or,
17:55  Vivi Koroma Kala
oh, is there a
17:55
difference? I feel as if, I
18:00
guess one of the main challenges
18:00
that we have as a practice is
18:03
staying relevant can be quite a
18:03
challenge. So right now, you
18:08
know, in the age of, you know,
18:08
30, on the 30, lists and 40,
18:14
under 40 List of celebrating,
18:14
you know, for youth
18:21  Ayo Abbas
I'm 44 now, I've
18:21
missed so many boats.
18:31  Vivi Koroma Kala
Yeah,
18:31
established practices. Likewise,
18:32
we need to be adaptable, don't
18:32
we, and we need to stay engaged
18:35
with industry. So I feel as if
18:35
one, one advantage can be seen
18:40
as I don't know, tapping into
18:40
relationships that have been
18:43
years and years in the making,
18:43
can be seen as you know, one
18:47
thing and I guess for more newer
18:47
firms is establishing those
18:51
relationships quite early on,
18:51
isn't it?
18:54  Ayo Abbas
Yeah, yeah. No,
18:54
you're right. Obviously, I said
18:56
to you before that, you know, I
18:56
met Jestico + Whiles when I
18:59
worked at Conisbee, which is
18:59
probably a good 20 years ago
19:01
now. So yeah, I kind of think of
19:01
those relationships have stood
19:05
the test of time, you know, and
19:05
all that kind of stuff. So,
19:07
absolutely. I think it's, it is
19:07
a big advantage. Yeah. Okay, so
19:12
one of the things that you are
19:12
you're the chairperson for the
19:14
Architecture Marketing Forum.
19:14
Yes, I am. Why. Why did you do
19:18
that? Why did you get involved
19:18
in what is?
19:20  Vivi Koroma Kala
Yes. So yes,
19:20
I'm a Chairperson. I'm part of a
19:25
small committee, and he chair
19:25
the Architecture Marketing
19:29
Forum. And it's something that I
19:29
got involved in about three
19:31
years ago now. And Architecture
19:31
Marketing Forum is a networking
19:37
group for professionals working
19:37
within architecture and design
19:42
practices is a forum that
19:42
provides a relaxed and friendly
19:46
environment and that's one of
19:46
the main reasons why I got
19:49
involved in it, especially in my
19:49
role at Jessica wells where I'm
19:53
kind of the only you know, sole
19:53
marketing person in the practice
19:58
to have you know, you know,
19:58
company and peer to peer
20:02
discussions and exchange of
20:02
ideas. And the forum really
20:05
provided that for me. Yeah,
20:08  Ayo Abbas
yeah. No, it's cool,
20:08
because I'm on the committee for
20:11
Build Up which has a similar
20:11
remit. Yeah. But you're
20:14
absolutely right. That thing of
20:14
I can have marketing
20:17
conversation. When you're the
20:17
only person in the practice and
20:22
everyone looks at you and goes,
20:23  Vivi Koroma Kala
Yeah,
20:23
literally, the Architecture
20:26
Marketing Forum. And so we meet
20:26
virtually every month well used
20:30
to be in person. But we invite
20:30
industry speakers, and I think
20:33
that's a valuable part of the
20:33
farm. It's a great way to mingle
20:39
with individuals in the same
20:39
sector, like you said, and yeah,
20:44
if people would like to join,
20:44
literally, put a link, or you
20:54
can, yeah, or you could send in,
20:54
you know, an invitation request
20:57
to our LinkedIn group, which you
20:57
can find by searching
21:01
Architecture Marketing Forum, on
21:01
LinkedIn.
21:04  Ayo Abbas
There you go. That's
21:04
a good plug. In terms of my
21:08
final two questions, so are
21:08
there any kind of particular
21:11
companies that you admire the
21:11
way that they tackle their
21:14
marketing? And why can we really
21:14
industry can be outside the
21:17
industry? I know there's another
21:17
world?
21:18  Vivi Koroma Kala
Oh, yes, yes,
21:18
yes. And so based on our
21:23
conversation, I'm gonna mention
21:23
them again, because they deserve
21:26
a second mention is Amazing If
21:26
so, they're a career
21:30
development company, yeah. And
21:30
so their USP is making work
21:36
better for everyone. And I feel
21:36
they do this absolutely,
21:40
brilliantly, using a variety of
21:40
marketing strategies, including
21:44
going big on digital. So I
21:44
really admire their marketing
21:48
methods, as they're super
21:48
present on their social media
21:52
channels. And they've really
21:52
connected with their audience.
21:55
And they show that they're super
21:55
invested, too. I feel as if
22:00
architecture firms can learn a
22:00
lot from their marketing
22:02
techniques, they've revealed
22:02
that one of the things that
22:06
they've revealed is, the key
22:06
question that they ask before
22:09
putting out any type of content
22:09
online is, How can this be
22:14
useful to our audience? And I
22:14
think it's a question that, you
22:17
know, we can all before putting
22:17
out content or before, you know,
22:24
engaging or putting out high
22:24
quality messaging, whether it's
22:27
on social media on our website,
22:27
you know, any other marketing
22:31
Yeah, Avenue.
22:33  Ayo Abbas
And also, their
22:33
graphic design is beautiful,
22:35
like, honestly. I love it,
22:35
because it's like, I am a fan.
22:43
Yeah, I also, I think it's the
22:43
amount of content they put out.
22:48
It's a lot. It's a lot to the
22:48
week, like a weekly podcast I
22:51
do. They also put lots of
22:51
resources around it. And you're
22:54
like, that's a lot of content.
22:56  Vivi Koroma Kala
Yeah, yeah.
22:56
Yeah, I agree. But each and
23:00
every single piece of content is
23:00
useful. And it's something that
23:03
you can always park, you know,
23:03
later date, whether it's, you
23:06
know, one of them, it doesn't
23:06
they do pod sheets at the
23:08
moment, so one of their sheets,
23:08
you know, to help with your
23:12
career development in future and
23:12
stuff like that. And I feel as
23:14
if, you know, the industry, the
23:14
architecture industry could, you
23:19
know, learn from it take, you
23:19
know, a few key learnings from
23:23
from useful content that's
23:23
played by that's,
23:28  Ayo Abbas
that's quite
23:28
interesting, isn't it? Because I
23:29
guess a lot of what they do is
23:29
they break things down into
23:31
little chunks, bite sized
23:31
chunks. And they use it that
23:34
way. And actually, when you
23:34
think about it, we probably
23:36
don't do that as an industry.
23:38  Vivi Koroma Kala
Yeah. And it
23:38
can be quite what they do. Yeah,
23:40
exactly. And as an industry, we
23:40
can be quite jargon heavy. So I
23:45
feel as if, you know, looking at
23:45
who our audiences are, and
23:49
tailoring it to them, you know,
23:49
whether or not you're we're a
23:52
small architecture firm, that
23:52
specialising you know, home
23:56
renovation, you know, maybe
23:56
speak to your customer see how
23:59
they, you know, find, maybe they
23:59
will find it useful if you break
24:03
down some of your website,
24:03
project pages into bite sized
24:06
chunks, you know. And likewise,
24:06
if you're a larger firm, you
24:10
know, think about, you know, the
24:10
clients or stakeholders, how
24:13
they communicate and how they
24:13
appreciate information too.
24:16
Yeah.
24:17  Ayo Abbas
And I always I know,
24:17
if I have like brainstorming
24:20
sessions with people, I always
24:20
say, what, what questions are
24:22
people asking you? Because
24:22
actaully that, that is your
24:26
content? Yeah. Is that, you
24:26
know, those questions were like,
24:29
actually, what do I need to pay
24:29
you? Or how does this work
24:34  Vivi Koroma Kala
the practical
24:34
elements Yeah,
24:37  Ayo Abbas
which everyone is
24:37
like that's Oh, that's not
24:38
interesting. It's like, that's
24:38
what you get asked all the time.
24:40
Exactly. That's what people
24:40
worry about, but yeah, I guess
24:43
we don't do that as much. But
24:43
you're absolutely right. I love
24:45
their stuff. Offer me now. Okay,
24:45
so, on to my final question. So
24:52
what one tip would you give to a
24:52
business leader looking to make
24:55
the most of their marketing
24:55
going forward?
24:57  Vivi Koroma Kala
Oh, great
24:57
question. One tip So I would
25:01
say, especially, you know, now
25:01
be adaptable. be adaptable to
25:08
the times because times are
25:08
a changing. And, you know, it
25:13
s Yeah, it's always great to ha
25:13
e that kind of versatility. A
25:17
d yeah, that mindset
25:17
f adaptabilit
25:22  Ayo Abbas
I think that's a
25:22
brilliant thing to end on. Thank
25:24
you so much for your time and
25:24
for coming on the show. Vivi.
25:27  Vivi Koroma Kala
Thank you so
25:27
much Ayo for having me.
25:35  Ayo Abbas
Thanks so much for
25:35
listening to the latest episode
25:37
of Marketing In Times of
25:37
recovery, and I'm your host Ayo.
25:40
If you want to find out more
25:40
bout the BI weekly show, do ch
25:43
ck out the show notes which
25:43
will give you more infor
25:44
ation about who the guests are a
25:44
d all the things we've cover
25:47
d. And if you're listening on Ap
25:47
le or Spotify, make sure you h
25:51
t the subscribe button so you d
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n't miss out on an episo
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e. Until next time, bye.