Marketing In Times of Recovery

Marketing In Times Of Crisis has changed its name to Marketing In Times of Recovery. It's still a bi-weekly interview-led podcast series featuring inspirational built environment business leaders but more with a look to the future. We’ve had to weather crisis’ before and podcast listeners hear lively conversations, jam-packed with hints, tips and takeaways that you can apply to your business now. Hosted by Ayo Abbas, Founder / Consultant, Abbas Marketing. Subscribe now, rate, review and help us to spread the word.

https://www.abbasmarketing.com/mitc-podcast

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episode 23: Ep 23, PT 2, Strategy, Purpose, Data and Events Danielle Regan and Dave Hendy, Mace [transcript]


Hello and welcome to the latest episode of Marketing In Times of Recovery hosted by  Ayo Abbas, a built environment marketing consultant and founder of Abbas Marketing.

It's part two of my interview with Danielle Regan and Dave Hendy from Mace.  If you've not checked out part 1 make sure you do before hitting play here.

In our discussion, we talk about:

  • The process Mace took to set their new 2026 business strategy including how internal staff feedback led them to take the leap to be bolder in their strategic ambitions. 
  • How website traffic grew 70% in the last year and what steps they're taking to drive traffic and the data they're using to drive their content strategy. 
  • How they're navigating the hybrid event conundrum.  

Rate and review us
Please rate and review us if you’re listening on Apple podcasts as it’s lovely to hear what you think plus it helps us to spread the word. Or why not leave me a voice message saying what you think of the show at memo.fm

Resources
Abbas Marketing
Mace Group

This episode was recorded on July 01 2021.


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 2021-09-24  32m
 
 
00:05  Ayo Abbas
Hello, I'm your host
00:05
Ayo Abbas, and welcome to the
00:08
latest episode of Marketing In
00:08
Times of Recovery. If you've not
00:11
listened to part one of this
00:11
interview with Danielle Regan
00:14
and Dave Hendy from Mace, make
00:14
sure you do before you listen to
00:17
this one, which is part two.
00:17
Anyway, here we go bye
00:26
Moving on to your purpose. And I
00:26
know you've recently this year,
00:31
you've launched your purpose led
00:31
strategy for your business
00:35
strategy up to 2026. Tell us bit
00:35
more about how that came about
00:38
Danielle.
00:39  Danielle Regan
Yeah, sure. So
00:39
this was part of the redefine
00:42
stage of the journey really. So
00:42
as I said earlier, there was a
00:46
small group of visit started
00:46
getting together every morning
00:48
as a as of July really thinking
00:48
about what's the future of the
00:51
of the business look like. And
00:51
we've been talking kind of pre
00:55
lockdown about our purpose and
00:55
becoming more of a purpose led
01:00
organisations that was kind of
01:00
on the on, certainly on Mark
01:03
Reynolds, our CEOs mind to
01:03
really do that reflection about,
01:07
you know, why we exist to kind
01:07
of beyond, you know, making a
01:10
profit. And Mark's been really
01:10
instrumental in driving the
01:14
responsible business agenda and
01:14
the carbon agenda, and Mace
01:18
Foundation, our charity. So he,
01:18
I think he really wanted to kind
01:22
to formalise that in a way that
01:22
linked in with the business
01:26
strategy and the vision for the
01:26
future. So yeah, we went on a,
01:29
we went on a journey, and we and
01:29
we tried really, really hard
01:32
actually, to bring our
01:32
colleagues on the journey as
01:34
well. So we, we started looking
01:34
at what our purpose is, as an
01:39
organisation. And we did a lot
01:39
of copy, we did a lot of
01:41
engagement, a lot of workshops,
01:41
a lot of sessions, where we got
01:45
our sort of people to kind of
01:45
feedback to us about why they
01:49
work at Mace and what they see
01:49
as the kind of potential for the
01:53
organisation. And then from from
01:53
that process, we actually
01:57
changed the purpose, we started
01:57
off with one, and people kind of
02:01
told us it wasn't ambitious
02:01
enough, and, and we listened and
02:05
we changed it. And, and then
02:05
where we ended up with a
02:09
purpose, which is to redefine
02:09
the boundaries of ambition. And
02:12
three strategic priorities are
02:12
the new business strategy, which
02:16
is, you know, really focused on
02:16
kind of six main growth sectors.
02:21
And what is so, so fascinating
02:21
about this actually, is I've
02:23
been involved in three business
02:23
strategies. Now, it must have
02:26
been with the business for 13
02:26
years. And the least interesting
02:31
thing about this business
02:31
strategy are the numbers. You
02:34
know, in fact, I think change is
02:34
massive. And I actually would
02:39
say, if you asked around the
02:39
business now, I think people
02:42
would remember the priorities
02:42
are really landing, particularly
02:45
our pursuit of sustainable world
02:45
priority, because we committed
02:48
to go net zero carbon last year,
02:48
and we achieved that. And now
02:51
we've committed to, you know,
02:51
reduce our clients carbon by a
02:55
million tonnes, and some,
02:55
increased biodiversity net gain,
02:59
and, you know, some really,
02:59
really strong ambitious targets
03:02
and our whole workforce has got
03:02
behind them, but I would say
03:05
most people, if you said to
03:05
them, what's the financial,
03:09
target for the, in the business
03:09
strategy? I think most people
03:13
would struggle to tell you that,
03:13
whereas I think they would be
03:16
able to tell you about the
03:16
purpose and the priorities,
03:18
which is, that change is
03:18
phenomenal, you know, that, that
03:22
is, you know, and makes me so
03:22
happy. You know, it's great,
03:27
because as well, the business is
03:27
just, it's just matured so much.
03:31
And that that sense of
03:31
responsibility that the board
03:34
has now and the want to do the
03:34
right thing, you know, to the
03:38
people, to the planet, you know,
03:38
is genuine and they're putting
03:43
their, you know, money where
03:43
their mouth is with this stuff.
03:45
And, and, you know, that's,
03:45
that's just, it's just great.
03:49
It's really, really great to see
03:49
and, and also a bit of a gift
03:52
from a marcomms point of view,
03:52
because we've got some really
03:54
fabulous themes to actually
03:56  Ayo Abbas
talk about how to
03:57  Danielle Regan
Yeah, become
03:57
famous for you know, when, and,
04:01
and we've always sort of
04:01
obviously had annual themes that
04:03
we talk about, but now we've got
04:03
four really strong pillars from
04:07
an external comms point of view
04:07
that Dave builds the thought
04:10
leadership response around and,
04:10
and that's great. And it's, you
04:13
know, it's, and we've actually
04:13
got an opinion and a point of
04:16
view, and, you know, huge
04:16
expertise in the business, which
04:21
is great. You know, it's a real
04:21
gift, both from an employee
04:24
engagement perspective, and from
04:24
an external comms perspective,
04:27  Dave Hendy
Just looking at
04:27
everything Danielle just said,
04:29
for me, something that really
04:29
stands out is, you know, we set
04:31
ourselves the challenge of going
04:31
and setting a purpose and
04:34
setting these priorities. And we
04:34
came up with a set, you know, a
04:37
senior leadership level that we
04:37
took out of the business that
04:41
weren't finished that were in
04:41
draft, that we were confident
04:43  enough to go and say:
"this is
04:43
what we think we're doing. Come
04:46
and let us know what you think"
04:46
And we did. I think we we topped
04:49
at about 2000 bits of feedback,
04:49
we did workshops, we did
04:52
facilitated sessions. We did
04:52
surveys, you know, we got we got
04:56
we It was probably the biggest
04:56
piece of kind of in internal
04:59
discussion and conversation
04:59
we've had as a business, and we
05:02
totally ripped them up, you
05:02
know, and we, you know, we
05:05
change them, we change the
05:05
number we have we changed the
05:07
wording, the purpose changed
05:07
entirely. And actually, I think,
05:10
you know, looking back, if you'd
05:10
have, if you'd have asked me,
05:13
pre-COVID, if we'd have had th
05:13
confidence and the Board w
05:16
uld have had the confidence to c
05:16
me out with something that i
05:18
portant to 6000 people that w
05:18
sn't finished yet, and ask t
05:21
em what they thought and c
05:21
ange it. You know, I think a lot
05:24
sometimes when people go out
05:24
with stuff like that, for ide
05:26
s and suggestions, they're kind
05:26
f they know where they're going
05:29
to end up, you know, it's no
05:29
really a conversation,
05:29
No, it's great that you kind of
05:29
went it you consulted on that
05:30
it's give us a stamp and tel
05:30
us we're doing the right thi
05:33
g. And in this case, it was
05:33
ou know, what you're not. A
05:35
d we went back, and we change
05:35
it. And I think that's a real
05:37
y, you know, I think as a re
05:37
ult, from conversations
05:39
I've had people, people buy in
05:39
o it a lot more because they
05:42
now what it was before. And t
05:42
ey know that they influenced it
05:45
And they know that as a res
05:45
lt, you know, we just set the
05:48
mbitions higher. People said,
05:48
the initial one was, now I think
05:52
the people said, This isn't the
05:52
company I think I worked for t
05:55
is isn't the company that bui
05:55
t the Shard. This is this is amb
05:57
tion levels down here, we want
05:57
o be up here. And that that
06:00
gave us a mandate to go and c
06:00
ange it and to go and push for
06:03
omething a bit bolder. And I y
06:03
u know, in that moment, we rea
06:06
ised that we were able to get th
06:06
t level of boldness, and then
06:09
e'd have to deliver everything,
06:09
the comms campaign around it
06:11
o make that real. That's really
06:11
exciting. That's a hell of a
06:14
andate it's bit a bit unnerving
06:14
There was some time in Januar
06:18
, where we were working pretty
06:18
hard to make that a reality. But
06:20
it has made a big impact.
06:28
level. And you listened, which I
06:28
think is the key thing, right?
06:32
You've completely built your
06:32
homepage I was looking at
06:34
earlier around your business
06:34
strategy, right? It's completely
06:37
different than it was before,
06:37
isn't it? So it's a lot more
06:40
because I was looking, I was
06:40
like, this isn't like a normal
06:42
homepage. So
06:44
behind that? Dave? And I mean,
06:44
it was it was it was a team
06:48
effort, really, but I think what
06:48
what it what it shows, you know
06:52
that the launch of our Purpose
06:52
priorities new business
06:54
strategy was we wanted it to be
06:54
seen as a fundamentally, you
06:59
know, change making moment for
06:59
the business. This wasn't the
07:01
same business, that it was
07:01
before we're doing something
07:04
really different. And
07:04
particularly those three core
07:05
priorities. We think pursue a
07:05
sustainable world, grow
07:09
together, deliver distinctive
07:09
value, that shaped everything we
07:13
do. And so actually, we should
07:13
use that as a mechanism to to
07:18
promote ourselves and to share
07:18
ourselves and to structure how
07:20
we talk about ourselves. So
07:20
purpose, front and centre. And
07:23
who knows, you know, that will
07:23
always be front and centre, will
07:25
it always be quite so front and
07:25
centre, of the promo on the
07:29
website, maybe not, maybe as it
07:29
becomes embedded it or it will
07:32
shift. But those three
07:32
priorities, absolutely say this
07:35
is who we are. And this is what
07:35
we're doing. And this is why
07:37
either, you know, either you
07:37
should come and work with us, or
07:39
you should come and work for us
07:39
or consider us for your project.
07:42
And I think that's where that
07:42
thinking is. And that's, you
07:46
know, that gives us a reason to
07:46
structure stuff in the way that
07:48
we have and gave us a kind of a
07:48
push to redesign the front of
07:51
the website, which I don't think
07:51
would have happened without the
07:53
new strategy.
07:54  Danielle Regan
And we and we
07:54
also what's quite interesting
07:56
about the purpose and priorities
07:56
launch is it gave us the
07:59
opportunity as well to relook at
07:59
the brand, and kind of refresh
08:03
the brand, because I think that,
08:03
you know, it all kind of comes
08:05
back to this benchmarking
08:05
everything about are we being as
08:08
ambitious as we could be here. I
08:08
think that's the sort of that's
08:11
the sort of fundamental of the
08:11
purpose really, you know, we've
08:14
always been a business kind of
08:14
pursued a better way and looked
08:17
for a better way of doing things
08:17
and doing things other say can't
08:20
be done. So the purpose is built
08:20
on our legacy. But it's looking
08:23
to the future rather than more
08:23
than anything else. And it's
08:27
kind of taking it broader than
08:27
just kind of doing things on a
08:31
project level. That other said,
08:31
couldn't be done. Yeah. And I
08:34
think that we then looked at our
08:34
brand and thought, actually, we,
08:37
you know, this could be more
08:37
ambitious, this could be updated
08:40
and refreshed and kind of
08:40
reenergised. So that was another
08:44
really nice thing about kind of
08:44
doing the purpose stuff is it
08:47
sort of gave us permission to
08:47
really reflect on our brand. And
08:50
as a result, we've updated our
08:50
kind of messaging, our tone of
08:53
voice, our look and feel the
08:53
whole sort of visual identity.
08:56
And, and that's now been
08:56
reflected, reflected in our new
09:00
office environments. All of our
09:00
offices have being updated with
09:03
that refresh branding, across
09:03
all of our assets, really, so.
09:09
Yeah. And the website, you know,
09:09
because we do a lot more, we
09:12
drive a lot more people to the
09:12
website now. So we've had
09:15
something like a 70% uplift in
09:15
visitors this year, compared to
09:19
the same period last year. And,
09:19
you know, and actually,
09:24
international visitors as well,
09:24
we've seen a huge increase in
09:27
visitors from the US, for
09:27
example, and huge increase in
09:32
visitors to sort of responsible
09:32
business pages and
09:34
sustainability pages and looking
09:34
at those search terms and look
09:38
at what people kind of coming to
09:38
us for is really interesting.
09:41
And in light of the new
09:41
strategy. I feel like we are
09:46
more people are coming to us for
09:46
things like sustainability and,
09:50
you know, advice on reducing
09:50
carbon, because we are hopefully
09:54
being seen as more of a kind of
09:54
leader in in areas. Yeah.
10:00  Ayo Abbas
And I guess, I mean,
10:00
how do you kind of feedback to
10:03
the business on the importance
10:03
of the website? I mean, do they
10:05
come to you now? It's what that
10:05
you know, we want to be on it
10:07
What's going on there? Or? Or
10:07
how is all of that now? We're
10:10
kind of working on a practical
10:10
day to day, though.
10:13  Dave Hendy
Why it's more of
10:13
a question for Danielle? Really
10:18  Danielle Regan
Yeah,
10:19
it's interesting. We're just
10:19
about to upgrade to, to the to
10:23
the cloud and upgrade to the
10:23
latest Sitecore? Which, I've got
10:27
no idea what number Sitecore is.
10:27
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But which is
10:38
going to be interesting, because
10:38
that's going to allow a lot more
10:40
sort of personalisation. Which
10:40
is going to be great. But
10:45
already, you know, the website,
10:45
but I think mainly, the
10:48
Perspective section is the bit
10:48
that's really sort of quite, we
10:52
change that every few days, we
10:52
produce kind of new thought
10:57
leadership content, And that
10:57
keeps it really fresh and up to
11:01
date. And our business partners
11:01
work really closely with their
11:04
business units on kind of, you
11:04
know, what's going on in their
11:06
sectors, what's going on in
11:06
their industries, what are the
11:08
kind of key themes and, and we
11:08
produce a lot of sort of thought
11:11
leadership that goes on our
11:11
website, on a sort of weekly,
11:14
weekly basis. And then we do a
11:14
lot of really targeted
11:16
campaigns, driving people to
11:16
that to that content, as well.
11:21
And then we do you know, then
11:21
we've got a Power BI dashboard,
11:25
that kind of all of our
11:25
marketing data kind of gets
11:27
sucked into, that we can look up
11:27
by client who by campaign or by
11:32
individual, or, you know, so, so
11:32
yeah, and then the business
11:35
partners work with the business
11:35
to sort of say, right, do we
11:37
need to do any follow up? And,
11:37
you know, what conversations Do
11:39
we need to have on the back of
11:39
this? And, you know, what's
11:41
performing? Well, what isn't
11:41
performing? Well, you know, and
11:45
so, you know, we're certainly
11:45
getting a lot more sort of, I
11:48
would say, more targeted with a
11:48
lot of our content on the
11:53
website, from a business partner
11:53
point of view. So we've got our
11:56
kind of four main themes from a
11:56
corporate perspective, which we
11:59
talk a lot about, and then
11:59
really quite targeted from, from
12:02
the sector point of view. And
12:02
then we're also now utilising a
12:07
lot more sort of digital
12:07
advertising, digital marketing,
12:11
techniques and tactics as well
12:11
to sort of drive traffic to the
12:15
website. So you know, LinkedIn
12:15
Campaign Manager, Google ads,
12:21
all sorts of sponsored content,
12:21
you know, PPC, etc. So, you
12:25
know, yeah, so there's a lot
12:25
going on to try and drive
12:28
traffic. Let's drive traffic,
12:28
you know, generate awareness,
12:32
but also opposition, clearly to
12:32
capture leads and intel as well.
12:35
So, yeah, a lot, a lot going on
12:35
in in that space at the moment.
12:39  Ayo Abbas
So did you move a lot
12:39
of your physical events spend on
12:43
that onto the digital platform?
12:43
Was it a kind of, like a switch
12:46
like that, or I guess in the
12:46
past year? Is that? Is that what
12:49
you've done? Or would that have
12:49
happened anyway? In terms of the
12:52
digital?
12:54  Danielle Regan
Yeah, it's a
12:54
good question. I mean, we
12:56
predominantly, we've done a lot
12:56
of virtual events, I think we
12:59
did something like 150 virtual
12:59
events last year. They were
13:03
predominantly internal, as Dave
13:03
said, that real drive to keep
13:07
the business engaged and
13:07
updated, and knowledge share,
13:11
and you know, all around our
13:11
purpose and priorities. But then
13:15
external as well. We didn't
13:15
invest in an event platform. And
13:19
I know, some organisations have
13:19
invested in I think it's On24
13:25
and other platforms, you know,
13:25
but we didn't we use the
13:30
Microsoft, either live events or
13:30
Teams or we've used Zoom.
13:35
Because predominantly, the
13:35
external events have been kind
13:38
of, I guess, roundtables. More
13:38
intimate client events we've got
13:43
one today with, with Ed
13:43
Gillespie, who's the futurenauts
13:47
who works with john Richardson,
13:47
all about kind of, on the back
13:51
of London Climate Action Week.
13:51
So you know, you might have kind
13:54
of 40 clients sort of dial-in
13:56  Ayo Abbas
so it's more focused,
13:56
rather than a big mass
13:58  Danielle Regan
more focused.
13:58
Yeah. And we've we've done more
14:00
for our kind of strategic
14:00
clients. So that's a community.
14:02
So we we've got a kind of about
14:02
50 strategic clients that we've
14:07
got really long standing
14:07
relationships with. And, you
14:10
know, part of our approach
14:10
during COVID, as well was about
14:13
really trying to how can we
14:13
support that client base. And
14:16
Dave launched a thought
14:16
leadership series, which was to
14:19
sort of really kind of support
14:19
our clients, through those kind
14:22
of challenging times. And then
14:22
we did events as well. And that
14:25
was really trying to bring that
14:25
community together, and what can
14:28
we learn from each other? So we
14:28
did a piece of research quite
14:32
early doors where we sat down
14:32
and spoke to our strategic
14:35
clients about the kind of impact
14:35
of COVID on their business in
14:38
the short term, what they
14:38
thought the long term looked
14:41
like, where were their
14:41
challenges, what opportunities
14:43
did they see and then then we
14:43
tried to kind of aggregate that
14:45
data and share that amongst, ob
14:45
iously not not citing any names
14:48
r organisation but just
14:48
show just trying to show we're
14:53
ust knowledge share, beca
14:53
se that's what a lot of our cli
14:55
nts asked us for, you know, they
14:55
want to know how others. other o
14:57
ganisations All right, well, ho
14:57
other sector's are handling
15:00
hings and, and we really tried
15:00
o be that facilitator o
15:03
that, that that knowledge sha
15:03
e in those lessons, thos
15:06
lessons learned. And yeah, so
15:06
rom an event point of view, a lo
15:11
of it, it's about bringing that
15:11
community of strategic clients t
15:14
gether and helping them, you k
15:14
ow, not just hear from others, b
15:17
t hear from each other, and, yo
15:17
know, tackle some of thos
15:20
big problems that they'
15:20
e all facing, you know, s
15:21
today's on climate change is,
15:21
ou know, is exactly that, you k
15:26
ow, what's, what's this client
15:26
oing? What's that client doing?
15:29
ow can we kind of help each o
15:29
her with these sort of share
15:32
challenges.
15:34  Dave Hendy
And, and I think a
15:34
lot of a lot of the value areas
15:37
is, you know, it was, it feels a
15:37
long time ago now. But actually,
15:41
we mentioned earlier, before we
15:41
started talking about Zoom,
15:44
fatigue but it set in pretty
15:44
quickly last year. Everybody, a
15:48
lot of organisations,
15:48
understandably switched to a
15:51
strategy of these kind of loads
15:51
of really big audience one too
15:54
many, come and come and join a,
15:54
you know, an audience of 200, as
15:58
we sit and tell you about what
15:58
we think COVID is going to do to
16:00
x industry, and, actually, the
16:00
the thing is, is that the real
16:05
you have, you have to show real
16:05
value, you had to get, you know,
16:08
to really make an impact. And to
16:08
get somebody to remember, you
16:11
know, you're not having them
16:11
around your office for
16:13
breakfast, or a pain au
16:13
chocolate, or a cup of coffee
16:15
and an interesting conversation,
16:15
they're just sat on their desk.
16:18
So you've got to show them
16:18
something interesting. And
16:20
actually, I think the smaller
16:20
model, the strategic client
16:23
network, which Daniel launched
16:23
last year, actually, you know,
16:26
it's all about senior access.
16:26
It's all about having a really
16:29
high level conversation with a
16:29
really high quality guest, you
16:31
actually get to be involved and
16:31
engaged. And it's not, you're
16:33
not just being taught that, I
16:33
think was was so much more
16:36
impactful than some of the more
16:36
generic kind of turn up and
16:38
listen to somebody talk about
16:38
the future of the workplace with
16:41
250 people on the call who all
16:41
come from different places, none
16:44
of whom really get a chance to
16:44
be involved or engaged in a
16:46
conversation.
16:48  Ayo Abbas
Yeah, no, I think I
16:48
think you're right, smaller,
16:50
definitely.
16:51  Danielle Regan
And I think as
16:51
well, it's about finding your
16:53
where you can really add value,
16:53
because let's be honest, none of
16:55
us really know what
16:57
is really new, but COVID is
16:58
how we navigate this new world,
16:58
but actually, there are some
17:04
areas of expertise that we
17:04
really do have where we can
17:06
really add value. So it was it
17:06
was about, you know, that
17:09
balance of kind of not jumping
17:09
on that kind of COVID thought
17:12
leadership bandwagon and really
17:12
trying to pick the topic where
17:15
we could really help our
17:15
clients. So whether that was
17:17
around returning to full
17:17
productivity on site, whether it
17:20
was around a safe return to the
17:20
office, because of our FM kind
17:24
of capability, or, you know, it
17:24
was just trying to find where we
17:28
can really add value to our
17:28
clients and partners.
17:31  Dave Hendy
And not just addd
17:31
to the hurricane of onise but I
17:39
have to admit,
17:41
but I I think internally though,
17:41
there's a really interesting
17:43
thing where we're actually you
17:43
know, we did we did low volume,
17:47
high target, high value external
17:47
engagement. And actually,
17:50
internally, we did high volume
17:50
loads, loads of virtual events.
17:55
And that is about keeping that
17:55
culture people aren't seeing
17:58
everybody every day, you do need
17:58
to have repeated touchpoints
18:00
outside of people's immediate
18:00
team. So they get to know what's
18:03
going on, they get to, you know,
18:03
they get all that face time. And
18:06
actually, what's interesting is
18:06
a challenge now, is that one of
18:09
the things that came out that we
18:09
used to do a session, I presume
18:11
we did it when you were at Mace
18:11
Ayo called Breakfast with the
18:14
Board where we'd get 20 people
18:14
in a room with our chief exec
18:19
nice breakfast, bacon sandwiches
18:19
come and have a chat, and we
18:21
moved that virtual. And moving
18:21
average is one of the best
18:24
things you've ever done. Because
18:24
suddenly, it wasn't just people
18:27
that could get to London at 830
18:27
on a Tuesday morning.
18:34
The leftovers so
18:36  Ayo Abbas
The sausage
18:36
sandwiches so good.
18:39  Dave Hendy
We can carry down a
18:39
tray of sausage sandwich it
18:41
often is but but actually doing
18:41
it virtually you know, suddenly
18:43
you having our chief executive,
18:43
our CFO in a room with with
18:46
people from 14 different
18:46
countries. And people who are
18:49
working most of those different
18:49
capacities not a couple of
18:51
conversations with people in our
18:51
you know, we've got a very small
18:53
office in Singapore, for
18:53
example. And one of the team
18:56
obssessed. And I've never really
18:56
felt like part of the wider Mace
18:58
Group until now. But now now
18:58
I've got the same access that
19:01
somebody in London does. Now I'm
19:01
on equal terms and I get to go
19:04
to the events just the same as
19:04
they do. And I get to turn up to
19:06
everything. And actually there's
19:06
some there's a really big
19:08
challenge. I think I don't think
19:08
many people have got their head
19:10
around yet in big corporates
19:10
about how you unpick that.
19:14
Because actually, as you
19:14
vibrate, you've got you know,
19:17
the hybrid experience can't just
19:17
be a camera in the back of the
19:20
room that somebody can dial into
19:20
anymore, because they want to be
19:23
a participant, they want to be
19:23
able to ask questions, they want
19:25
to be able to engage the
19:25
speakers, they're not just
19:27
passively there, whereas people
19:27
in HQ are a different status.
19:31
And actually, that's, you know,
19:31
I haven't yet seen an event
19:34
platform or internal tech that
19:34
really delivers that properly.
19:37
And I think there's a little way
19:37
to go. As we get back to our new
19:40
ways of working about how you
19:40
might
19:42  Ayo Abbas
think you've hit on
19:42
the big gap. I think that's the
19:44
thing is that hybrid hybrid
19:44
technology and making that
19:47
experience work for both
19:47
parties. I think that's the big
19:49
gap. You're right. There is
19:49
nothing that covers that at the
19:52
moment. And I think Yeah, to
19:52
actually make it feel that you
19:56
know, you're both you're both as
19:56
valued. That's hard.
19:59  Danielle Regan
The only And
19:59
it's interesting, I always think
20:01
about football match from a
20:01
hybrid point of view, because
20:05
you get a very different
20:05
experience watching it on TV
20:09
than you do in the stadium. But
20:09
actually, it's an equally
20:12
entertaining, maybe it's not as
20:12
atmospheric. But you get the you
20:16
get the pundits, and you get the
20:16
sort of visuals on the screen,
20:19
and you get the kind of
20:19
commentary and you get, which
20:22
obviously, you don't get in the
20:22
stadium. But effectively, you
20:24
kind of run it. And if you think
20:24
about that an event perspective,
20:27
you haven't run into. Yeah, two
20:27
events in in in tandem, we've
20:31
got our first proper hybrid
20:31
event in September, where we
20:33
bring in all of our leadership
20:33
together, for the first time
20:36
will be well, touch wood. And,
20:36
you know, we're really sort of
20:40
looking at that at the moment
20:40
thinking, Well, you know, you've
20:43
got to run two events here you
20:43
can't just as Dave says, stick a
20:48
camera in the back of a room,
20:48
and they'd like a microphone,
20:51
you
20:51  Ayo Abbas
might hear them you
20:51
might not Yeah,
20:52  Danielle Regan
yeah, yeah. So I
20:52
mean, it's really interesting,
20:55
isn't it? It's another
20:55
interesting challenge, isn't it?
20:56
You know, but yeah, if you've
20:56
got any advice on that one,
21:01  Ayo Abbas
I just think there's
21:01
gonna be some prop tech
21:03
companies out there who come up
21:03
with this stuff, who are going
21:05
to make or event you know, what
21:05
I mean? Because there isn't
21:08
anything. And I think it's how
21:08
do you get, like you say, how do
21:11
you create those two different
21:11
types of experiences, so you
21:13
both feel valued and, and get
21:13
the same type, you know, come
21:17
away feeling that, you know, I
21:17
was really there.
21:19  Danielle Regan
And, and it's
21:19
really important,
21:21
at the moment, because we're
21:21
trying to embed this new, new,
21:24
the interesting thing about
21:24
strategy and purpose is it's not
21:26
just that launch done, you know,
21:26
actually, the hard work is in
21:29
now is embedding this stuff and
21:29
actually getting people to
21:32
really stand behind it, and, but
21:32
most importantly, for me to see
21:36
their role in it. So, you know,
21:36
we're doing all sorts of things
21:40
internally at the moment to try
21:40
and help that embedment and
21:42
support, make sure that
21:42
everything that we do ladders
21:45
back to that kind of purpose. So
21:45
whether it's, you know,
21:48
operationally, you know, things
21:48
like our recruitment process, or
21:51
our appraisal process, or, you
21:51
know, how we sort of reward and
21:56
recognise colleagues or, you
21:56
know, all that kind of how we
22:00
embed it into the project
22:00
processes, you know, there's all
22:02
that kind of kind of processy
22:02
stuff and laddering the purpose
22:05
back of laddering everything
22:05
back to the purpose, but also
22:08
the sort of another really
22:08
important one for me is helping
22:11
individuals see their role and
22:11
delivering the purpose. So we're
22:15
doing some find your why series
22:15
at the moment as well, which is
22:19
kind of helping people to
22:19
uncover their personal purpose,
22:22
but then also see their make
22:22
that connection, that kind of
22:25
golden thread between the Mace
22:25
purpose and their own purpose
22:28
and how I fit into it. Yeah,
22:28
where you fit into it, yeah, and
22:31
how you can kind of bring some
22:31
of your passions from your
22:34
private life into into the, into
22:34
the workplace, because there's
22:38
so many things that we're trying
22:38
to achieve as a business at the
22:42
moment that we're being super
22:42
ambitious about. And I feel like
22:46
it's kind of do something for
22:46
everyone, you know, whereas some
22:49
organisation's purpose is very
22:49
clear, you know, if you're a
22:53
Patagonia it's all about
22:53
sustainability. And, and that's
22:56
great, if you're like a massive
22:56
sustainability kind of champion
23:00
Mace's purpose is slightly is
23:00
not a specific, but that's done
23:03
on purpose. Because actually, we
23:03
want it to, we want everyone to
23:07
think about where and how
23:07
they're ambitious and apply that
23:10
in their, in their role at work.
23:10
So whether it's that they're
23:13
really passionate about, you
23:13
know, creating a great culture,
23:17
whether it's that they're
23:17
passionate about sustainability,
23:19
or diversity, inclusion, or
23:19
innovation and technology, or
23:24
creating safe spaces, you know,
23:24
it was, you know, part of our
23:28
enabled network, because our
23:28
disability network are really
23:31
looking at how you create safe
23:31
spaces, physical safe spaces for
23:34
people through the design
23:34
process, you know, that is all
23:38
kind of sits under our purpose,
23:38
because it's about, you know,
23:42
being as ambitious as possible
23:42
in everything that we in
23:44
everything that we do. So yeah,
23:44
for, for roles that embedment is
23:48
really, really important. So
23:48
kind of, you know, getting our
23:52
leaders on board with that first
23:52
and foremost is super, super
23:57
important. So the last thing you
23:57
want to do is kind of create
24:00
that, you know, us and them in
24:00
the room sort of environment
24:03
where if you're in the room, you
24:03
know, an event you sort of
24:07
really get it and if you're not
24:07
you just think ugh nah.,
24:09  Ayo Abbas
yeah. And that's the
24:09
thing is now I think, yeah,
24:12
events are gonna have to change
24:12
and but it's quite an exciting
24:15
time, I think because I think
24:15
Yeah, because the kind of
24:18
interactive element the you
24:18
know, the virtual element
24:20
actually getting that done, it
24:20
means you're gonna get a lot
24:22
more bang for your buck from
24:22
your events, overall, and value
24:26
from them but but you're right
24:26
to get them right in the first
24:29
place. Hybrid is is gonna take a
24:29
lot of work. And,
24:31  Dave Hendy
and I think, I think
24:31
the problem is, is the one thing
24:34
that's really hard to do is that
24:34
networking piece, yeah. And that
24:39
post event or you know, post
24:39
event drink or pre-event coffee,
24:43
you know, we've we've tried as
24:43
I'm sure a lot of people have
24:46
kind of can you make that work
24:46
on a virtual event and stick
24:49
people in rooms afterwards and
24:49
it's just, it just doesn't like
24:53
it's just not, you know, you
24:53
might you might get a slightly
24:56
interesting conversation out of
24:56
it. If you're not you don't feel
24:59
comfortable. You You're not
24:59
having a nice time you're not
25:01
sat there, you know, drinking
25:01
warm white wine and having an
25:04
interesting chat with somebody
25:04
you never would have talked to
25:06
before you just sat there trying
25:06
to work out what to say to a
25:08
face on screen that you've never
25:08
met before, and it just doesn't.
25:10
So I think there is, you know,
25:10
finding that finding, what is
25:13
the benefit you give virtual
25:13
people that replaces that
25:16
networking, networking, because
25:16
that doesn't work is just an
25:20
industry wide collective
25:20
challenge. But as soon as
25:22
anybody works out, and smashes
25:22
it immediately is copying what
25:26
they're doing. Because it's such
25:26
a difficult thing.
25:29  Danielle Regan
advice to your
25:29
listeners don't host really
25:31
awkward virtual networking
25:31
session. And if we tried it,
25:38  Ayo Abbas
But I think, I think
25:38
she tried it. I know, it's kind
25:40
of funny, because I did a couple
25:40
of presenting things. And like,
25:43
at the end of the year, one of
25:43
them was for RIBA. And I
25:45
remember like, afterwards, I
25:45
thought it was such a huge
25:48
comedown because normally I've
25:48
just presented for an hour,
25:51
normally, I'd be talking to
25:51
somebody going and watched, you
25:53
know, afterwards. But then it's
25:53
like, I just switched off my
25:55
camera. And then people like,
26:04  Dave Hendy
but I think that
26:04
lack of feedback thing is a
26:05
really big issue as well,
26:05
because now we do these big set
26:09
pieces with our leadership to
26:09
our all staff and actually not
26:12
having that audience. They're
26:12
not how, you know, suddenly the
26:15
only feedback route you get you
26:15
get your survey, you get, you
26:18
know, the live questions that
26:18
come in, but but all of that
26:21
stuff gives Pete you know, it's
26:21
not the same as the TVs at being
26:24
able to sit in a room afterwards
26:24
and have a drink with people and
26:26
judge how it went down. And
26:26
what, what, what didn't. And
26:29
actually that kind of self
26:29
limiting thing, I think is
26:32
leaders are more rely on them,
26:32
people realise they need to be
26:35
able to do the big speech, and
26:35
then they need to be able to go
26:37
and talk to 15 people and
26:37
understand. And if you don't
26:43
have that you can't just speak
26:43
into a void. Actually, I think
26:46
that one of the you know, one of
26:46
the things of hybrid is, is just
26:50
getting that audience feedback
26:50
loop there. Again, just getting
26:53
that that crowd of faces, and
26:53
that that ability to play off
26:55
people's energy and you know, do
26:55
all that stuff actually improves
26:58
both hybrid and virtual so it's
26:58
quite complicated.
27:01  Ayo Abbas
Yeah, so, so
27:01
complicated. It's one of those
27:02
things. I'm like, I'm gonna
27:02
figure out how to do this.
27:05
Because you're right, it's Yeah,
27:05
online is great, in many ways.
27:08
But yeah, that is the one thing
27:08
where I was like, just feels
27:10
weird. Anyway, so moving on from
27:10
events, I'm going to go on to my
27:15
final question. So what one tip
27:15
would you give to a business
27:18
leader about kind of how to take
27:18
their business forward in the
27:22
coming year, as we had, I guess,
27:22
more into recovery as we are
27:25
going for at the moment? I'm
27:25
gonna kick that one off with
27:28  Dave Hendy
I, I it's an
27:28
interesting question. I think,
27:28
you, Dave?
27:34
from what, from what we've seen,
27:34
and I know, we've spoken a lot
27:37
about purpose and openness and
27:37
transparency. But I think that
27:41
one of the things, you know, we
27:41
did we we had to make some
27:44
difficult decisions to business
27:44
last year. And now we're making
27:46
some really positive and
27:46
proactive and energised
27:48
decisions about what the future
27:48
looks like. One of the reasons
27:50
we've been able to do both those
27:50
things really effectively as I
27:53
think and I would think this
27:53
because I've had columns that I
27:55
have an ownership of it, but I
27:55
think we have kept people
27:58
engaged. And we have kept people
27:58
on our side and kind of with us
28:03
as we've gone through this by
28:03
being sincere by being authentic
28:06
by being transparent by having a
28:06
person at the top who is
28:09
prepared to go out in front of
28:09
an audience and take loads of
28:11
questions and talk about why
28:11
he's doing something and admit
28:13
mistakes. And I think that kind
28:13
of sincerity, which is kind of
28:18
tied to being a purpose of
28:18
business, I think is really key.
28:20
And I think, as you know, one of
28:20
the things Danielle, so kind of
28:24
COVID is fast forwarded
28:24
everything. And I think that's
28:26
really true. One of the things I
28:26
think is particularly fast
28:28
forwarded is people's need to
28:28
kind of have that sincerity and
28:32
authenticity from their
28:32
leadership in a business. And I
28:35
think that if you can do that,
28:35
well, and do it believably
28:39
people will, people will follow
28:39
you, and they will take your
28:42
ambitions on board, and they'll
28:42
go out and they'll do really
28:45
challenging things, or they'll
28:45
let you know, and if you can't
28:48
do it, and everything falls
28:48
flat, and nobody believes what
28:50
you're saying, then it'll just
28:50
fall apart. So I think that that
28:53
for me is you know, sincerity is
28:53
absolutely key and that sense of
28:56
authenticity.
28:57  Ayo Abbas
Fantastic sincerity
28:57
and authenticity. I can't even
29:00
say it anyway. What's your one
29:00
tip? I guess, you know,
29:06  Danielle Regan
I think as the
29:06
market starts to sort of move
29:10
into recovery, I think that the
29:10
war for talent is going to get
29:13
even tougher. And I think, you
29:13
know, now, if organisations
29:17
haven't done this, sort of,
29:17
during COVID of that, I think,
29:21
you know, really starting to do
29:21
a bit of soul searching. And for
29:25
us it was starting with the why,
29:25
you know, people don't buy what
29:28
you do they buy, why you buy why
29:28
you do it, and I whole Simo
29:32
Sinek famous, famous quote, an
29:32
that's equally true fo
29:35
employees as well, you know
29:35
employees, these days want
29:39
o work for a purpose driven bus
29:39
ness, they won't work for a res
29:41
onsible business. So I thi
29:41
k, you know, do taking the tim
29:45
to really think about your why
29:45
And, and so I think that's one
29:49
thing and then after, you kno
29:49
, after that, I think from a mar
29:52
eting point of view, I thi
29:52
k, you know, look, look at you
29:55
data. I think focus is rea
29:55
ly key if you know if you've got
29:58
a relatively small marcomms
29:58
eam You need to understand
30:01
here my comms effort is, is
30:01
ost effective, and there's no
30:04
xcuse anymore, that everything
30:04
ow is digital and you can get,
30:08
ou know, data at the touch of a
30:08
utton. So, you know, really,
30:12
ou know, use that interrogate i
30:12
use that to sort of fo
30:15
mulate your kind of decision ma
30:15
ing and your strategies going fo
30:18
ward.
30:19  Ayo Abbas
Thank you both for
30:19
your tips and for coming onto
30:21
the show. And we are done.
30:23  Danielle Regan
Thanks for
30:23
having us.
30:24  Dave Hendy
Thank you. That was
30:24
really fun.
30:31  Ayo Abbas
Thanks so much for
30:31
listening to the latest episode
30:32
of Marketing in Times of
30:32
Recovery, and I'm your host Ayo
30:35
bbas. If you want to find out
30:35
more about the Bi-weekly show do
30:38
check out the show notes which
30:38
will give you more information
30:40
about who the guests are and all
30:40
the things we've covered. And if
30:44
you're listening on Apple or
30:44
Spotify, make sure you hit the
30:47
subscribe button so you don't
30:47
miss out on an episode. Until
30:50
next time, bye.