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https://www.themindshiftpodcast.com
87: Competencies Required to Successfully Lead Others [transcript]
William Schirmer is an experienced executive and HR leader with 23 years of experience in the field.
He has worked in both national and international companies in the USA and Europe and has built numerous leadership development and talent management programs along the way.
William's helped many people address personal fulfillment, professional development, performance, communication, and relationships. Today, he treats us to some valuable insights on the topics of leadership, talent management, onboarding and retention, so you're encouraged to tune in!Â
Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full Episode:
- Find out why talent management can make or break a business.
- We discuss why behavioral interviewing is an art, not a science.
- Learn about the importance of the onboarding process.
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Thanks for listening,
Darrell
00:36 William Schrimer
I'd happen to
00:36
work with one executive, who
00:39
probably was literally a genius
00:39
in terms of his ability to
00:42
manage a business. But he was
00:42
not great with people. And he
00:47
refused to, I think, look in the
00:47
mirror and admit that this
00:52
wasn't his forte. And he needed
00:52
to bring other people into the
00:56
recruiting process to help him
00:56
interview and select. So I think
00:59
not letting pride get in the way
00:59
and making sure that you get a
01:03
second look at people and that
01:03
your decision is very
01:05
considered. So I think in terms
01:05
of recruiting, where things fall
01:09
down is absolutely at the
01:09
selection process. It's not a
01:13
distraction from your day job.
01:13
If you're a leader, it is your
01:16
day job to make sure that you're
01:16
still directing the right
01:19
people.
01:21 The MindShift Podcast
This is
01:21
The MINDSHIFT Podcast where we
01:24
share real stories, real
01:24
strategies that will help you
01:27
find real success. This is the
01:27
place to hear from people just
01:31
like you who've taken their
01:31
ideas, goals and dreams from a
01:34
point of inspiration to
01:34
realization or when life knock
01:37
them down from a point of
01:37
breakdown to breakthrough. I'm
01:41
your host Darrell Evans. Let's
01:41
get started with today's
01:43
episode.
01:48 Darrell Evans
William Schrimer
01:48
is an experienced executive and
01:51
HR leader with over 22 years
01:51
experience in the field. He has
01:55
worked in both national and
01:55
international companies in the
01:58
USA and Europe, and has built
01:58
numerous leadership development
02:02
and Talent Management Programs.
02:02
Along the way. He has helped
02:06
many people address issues of
02:06
personal fulfillment,
02:09
professional development,
02:09
performance, communication, and
02:12
relationships. He is the recent
02:12
author of The Leadership Core
02:16
Competencies for Successfully
02:16
Leading Others, and his second
02:20
book Fulfilled Finding Happiness
02:20
and Prosperity in Your Life.
02:26
William holds an undergraduate
02:26
degree in behavioral and
02:29
political sciences and graduate
02:29
degrees in human resource
02:33
management, and social science.
02:33
Well, how's it going? Welcome to
02:37
The MINDSHIFT Podcast.
02:38 William Schrimer
Thank you very
02:38
happy to be here. Appreciate the
02:40
opportunity.
02:41 Darrell Evans
Yeah, I'm looking
02:41
forward to the conversation.
02:43
Before we jump in. Where are you
02:43
in the world today?
02:46 William Schrimer
I am in
02:46
Olympia, Washington.
02:48 Darrell Evans
Good for you.
02:48
Looking forward to this
02:49
conversation around leadership.
02:49
As we dive in, why don't you
02:52
take a few minutes and introduce
02:52
yourself to the audience?
02:54 William Schrimer
Yes,
02:54
certainly. So I'm Will Shermer.
02:57
I've been in HR for about 23
02:57
years. So I won't say I fell
03:01
into HR. But that's not too far
03:01
off. True. I was working in the
03:07
United Kingdom, and was an area
03:07
manager for a retailer. And I
03:11
found that I really enjoyed the
03:11
people side of management, how
03:15
do you acquire talent? How do
03:15
you make sure that they perform
03:19
and are motivated to perform?
03:19
And also what do you do to make
03:23
sure that people are enjoying
03:23
their work because happy
03:26
employees generally produce for
03:26
the organization and they stay.
03:31
So I enjoyed that and had an
03:31
opportunity to come on board
03:34
with a consultancy in the UK,
03:34
that was focused on recruiting,
03:38
training and retention. And that
03:38
was back in the late 90s. Before
03:41
the whole year 2k excitement and
03:41
was there for several years
03:47
actually, I spent from 1993 to
03:47
2002 living and working in the
03:51
UK.
03:52 Darrell Evans
Wow
03:52 William Schrimer
Came back to
03:52
the US spending most of my time
03:55
in corporate HR, last several
03:55
roles, running HR and training
03:59
functions for national
03:59
companies, and went back to the
04:03
UK about about three years ago,
04:03
three and a half years ago, I
04:07
spent about three years there,
04:07
working for an international
04:10
company, and decided I just
04:10
missed the snow too much. So I
04:14
returned back to the Midwest.
04:16 Darrell Evans
That's an odd
04:16
phrase. You don't hear that very
04:18
often. I missed the snow too
04:18
much.
04:21 William Schrimer
Yeah, it
04:21
sounds a little perverse. I
04:22
know, I think one of the
04:22
happiest days I had was when I
04:26
saw my snowboard go away. So I
04:26
traveled a bit work for national
04:29
international companies. Much of
04:29
my focus in HR, although I've
04:33
run HR and training functions
04:33
has really been on talent
04:37
management on what I would
04:37
consider to be by and large, the
04:40
more strategic parts of HR, how
04:40
do you bring good talent in the
04:45
door? How do you make sure that
04:45
you properly onboard and make
04:49
sure that these people get up to
04:49
speed early, send some success
04:53
so they are properly
04:53
enculturated feel successful,
04:58
and you're helping to build
04:58
careers. And of course, all the
05:00
other aspects of talent
05:00
management as well have really
05:04
been folded into that leadership
05:04
training, training and
05:06
development, succession
05:06
management and so forth. So I
05:09
really enjoy that side of the
05:09
business. And as I was creating
05:15
training programs, including
05:15
leadership, which I have a
05:17
particular passion for, I found
05:17
that I thought I had a book in
05:21
me I think most people say the
05:21
same thing. Right that I think
05:25
I've got a book in me somewhere.
05:25
So I wrote a book on talent
05:28
management in particular
05:28
leadership development, and that
05:32
book has recently come out and
05:32
that's continued to spark my
05:35
interest in You know, authoring
05:35
so second book is out in early
05:39
next year as well awesome. And
05:39
enjoy all of these conversations
05:43
I get to have with professionals
05:43
like yourself about leadership
05:46
and about managing talent.
05:47 Darrell Evans
That's amazing. I
05:47
appreciate the backstory in the
05:49
background. You know, I'm often
05:49
saying to entrepreneurs who are
05:54
growing businesses small to
05:54
midsize enterprises. I'm often
05:59
saying to them, when they asked
05:59
me what's the hardest part about
06:02
growing a business? And I used
06:02
to say it's the people. And I
06:05
don't mean that in a negative
06:05
way. But it's how do you bring
06:07
people together? Right. Jim
06:07
Collins, I'm sure you're
06:10
familiar, right? People on the
06:10
bus, wrong people off the bus,
06:15
right people right seat, right.
06:15
And so I'm really interested in
06:19
how you think about that. Talk a
06:19
little bit about the size of
06:22
organizations that your
06:22
experience comes from?
06:25 William Schrimer
Yes. So
06:25
everything from a couple of 100
06:28
people to about 5000.
06:30 Darrell Evans
Wow. Okay.
06:31 William Schrimer
Covering at
06:31
its peak, we had 250 offices in
06:35
56 countries, but also working
06:35
with smaller businesses, too. I
06:40
worked with a couple of small
06:40
regional businesses in the
06:43
Midwest. Yeah. And you're
06:43
absolutely right, of course, my
06:46
opinion is woefully biased,
06:46
because I've been focused on
06:49
people for over 20 years. But I
06:49
think it is the hardest part of
06:53
growing the business. And I've
06:53
seen businesses who, not only
06:58
when you look at leadership, but
06:58
just the ability to acquire
07:01
talent, and properly training
07:01
and cultivate them. It either
07:06
makes or breaks a business. And
07:06
it is crucial. I think that most
07:11
business leaders, particularly
07:11
as they are growing smaller
07:15
businesses focus on management,
07:15
you know, how do I get the
07:19
capital? How do I manage my
07:19
resources, what am I doing in
07:22
terms of process and project.
07:22
And that's a logical place to
07:27
start. But in the end, the only
07:27
asset that you have that is not
07:31
easily repeatable down the road
07:31
is your people. And so it's
07:36
crucial to get the right people
07:36
on board and to make sure that
07:40
you are retaining them, that
07:40
you're not allowing that
07:42
knowledge to walk out the door
07:42
to your competitor. Now it
07:46
happens, right? But certainly
07:46
shifting that focus as your
07:49
business grows from doing the
07:49
work yourself or with a couple
07:52
of others, to learning how to
07:52
manage results through the work
07:57
of others, is a fundamental
07:57
difference as you grow your
08:00
business. And I think that that
08:00
is a key skill that you have to
08:05
acquire and leverage if you're
08:05
going to grow your business
08:08
exponentially.
08:09 Darrell Evans
Yeah. So much I
08:09
really want to unpack here, I
08:11
gotta throw something else out
08:11
that I've used, or I've heard,
08:14
and I've lived by my mind. And
08:14
that is because I agree 100%
08:17
That, you know, you have to have
08:17
a process for recruiting great
08:20
people getting them on board or
08:20
properly getting them into the
08:24
roles. I've often heard, or I
08:24
heard somewhere you and I joked
08:28
offline before we started the
08:28
call that where we heard
08:31
something, it wasn't probably
08:31
from the person that we heard it
08:34
from it was a person most
08:34
recently that we heard from and
08:36
here's the thought, people don't
08:36
leave jobs, they leave bosses
08:39
they don't like, What is your
08:39
response to that?
08:42 William Schrimer
Completely
08:42
agree. There is a raft of
08:45
research on this, that indicates
08:45
when people leave, they're not
08:49
leaving for money.
08:49
Interestingly, there was one
08:51
study where there was a poll of
08:51
leaders and 90% of leaders
08:57
believed that their people left
08:57
for money purposes. 89% of the
09:03
employees said, No, we don't
09:03
leave for money. We leave for
09:07
other things we leave because
09:07
our boss, frankly, was a jerk.
09:11
Or there are other aspects of
09:11
the work experience that were
09:15
lacking, could be challenged
09:15
development, it could have been
09:19
autonomy. But these are the
09:19
psychological aspects of working
09:23
that many leaders, including
09:23
small business leaders, perhaps
09:27
don't fully understand or don't
09:27
fully leverage. And that is
09:30
absolutely right. If you ask
09:30
most people, they're going to
09:33
tell you that they got more
09:33
money down the road, of course,
09:36
sure. And often leaders won't
09:36
look in the mirror to say, I own
09:40
this though. This was a
09:40
preventable, this was a
09:43
regrettable piece of turnover.
09:43
That had I operated differently,
09:47
or perhaps that I adjusted the
09:47
environment, that person might
09:51
still be here, you're going to
09:51
lose people. It's a reality of
09:54
business. There are too many
09:54
people that operate under the
09:57
fallacy that people are leaving
09:57
for money. Money isn't what
10:00
caused them to start looking at
10:00
was something else. Money is
10:04
just a byproduct of their job
10:04
search.
10:06 Darrell Evans
100% agree. You
10:06
know, if you're a leader
10:10
listening this and I know for
10:10
myself, I'm speaking from my own
10:12
20 something years now hiring
10:12
people 30 years roughly, money
10:16
will come into the play down the
10:16
line, but it's usually never
10:20
it's opportunity. It's, you
10:20
know, friction with teammates.
10:23
It's a culture. It's not being
10:23
challenged. I mean, I can tell
10:28
you just on exit interviews, I
10:28
could go down the list and I'm
10:31
sure you can as well. Well, I
10:31
want to see if we can break this
10:35
down for audience A little bit.
10:35
Let's start at acquisition of
10:39
new talent first. And then let's
10:39
talk a little bit about the idea
10:42
of motivating and crafting a
10:42
team environment that is
10:45
thriving with great culture. And
10:45
I don't know how much use the
10:48
word culture, but I'm sure in
10:48
your world culture has a lot to
10:52
do with it. But let's talk about
10:52
the the beginning part of it.
10:54
Because I think a lot of people
10:54
that I work with, and over the
10:56
last 11 years of my work, I hear
10:56
this theme, like, I can't find
11:01
great people. And the reality of
11:01
it is there's great people
11:06
everywhere. Right? So let's talk
11:06
about the recruitment or initial
11:12
thought process, either
11:12
strategically or tactically
11:15
about where leaders making
11:15
mistakes at that very front end
11:18
of the recruitment process. Talk
11:18
us through some of that.
11:20 William Schrimer
Yes. So I
11:20
would tell you that candidate
11:23
generation is certainly an
11:23
issue. And people should make no
11:27
mistake, we're going to work for
11:27
talents, even now, in the midst
11:31
of or perhaps at least in the
11:31
US, on the downside, hopefully,
11:35
of COVID. There are huge numbers
11:35
of people that put their head
11:40
down and clung on to their job
11:40
over the last 1518 months, who
11:46
perhaps haven't enjoyed the
11:46
experience with their employers,
11:50
and they're going to be out
11:50
looking. And employers that are
11:55
progressive in how they treat
11:55
employees are flexible, and
11:59
offer them, I'm going to call it
11:59
a better deal and this goes far
12:02
beyond money, are going to win
12:02
that war for talent. So yes, you
12:08
need to generate candidates. And
12:08
of course, we can go through all
12:10
the tactical aspects of online
12:10
versus referral and so forth.
12:15
And that's not unimportant. I
12:15
mean, you've got to bring
12:17
candidates through the door, I
12:17
think where most leaders make
12:20
mistakes is in candidate
12:20
interviewing and selection.
12:23 Darrell Evans
That's exactly
12:23
what was..
12:24 William Schrimer
Yeah.
12:24 Darrell Evans
There's no
12:24
shortage of finding people to
12:26
apply for the work. That's
12:26
exactly where I wanted to go.
12:29
Was that the point of engagement
12:29
from that thought process?
12:33
Because I believe that's where
12:33
it breaks down. It's, at least
12:35
in my world, it's what I've
12:35
worked on refining in my career.
12:38
So yeah, let's definitely dive
12:38
into the point of engagement at
12:40
interviews.
12:41 William Schrimer
So
12:41
interviewing is an art. It's not
12:43
a science, and most individuals,
12:43
including, perhaps the
12:48
preeminent theorists, on
12:48
leadership, like John Maxwell,
12:52
will tell you that a huge
12:52
proportion of your success is
12:56
determined by who you bring
12:56
through the door and sit in the
12:59
seats in your team. So those
12:59
seats should be treated as gold.
13:02
They're precious. Yes. And I
13:02
think a lot of leaders use a
13:07
very sort of casual and
13:07
unstructured approach to
13:09
interviewing and selection. And
13:09
if you don't know what you're
13:12
looking for, how do you know you
13:12
found it. And so you have to
13:16
define what are the competencies
13:16
required for the job. Now this
13:21
goes beyond I want someone with
13:21
experience, skills and
13:24
experience can be certainly
13:24
skills can be trained, that's
13:27
over the course of weeks and
13:27
months. But competencies, like
13:31
the ability to work
13:31
cooperatively with others, work
13:35
ethic, a sense of
13:35
competitiveness, self
13:38
motivation, the ability to build
13:38
relationships, these are things
13:42
that as leaders, we don't want
13:42
to have to teach the people
13:45
coming through the door, I don't
13:45
want a project that is a years
13:49
long project if I can help him,
13:49
right. And so this is important,
13:53
you have to define what you're
13:53
looking for, and then build some
13:55
questions around it. behavioral
13:55
interviewing is built on this.
14:00
And the whole idea is not to
14:00
find the perfect hire. And I've
14:04
heard countless managers say,
14:04
I'll just wait, I'll keep
14:07
looking, the perfect hire will
14:07
come out. That's a fallacy.
14:11
There is no perfect hire, you're
14:11
going to have to train coach and
14:14
develop people.
14:15 Darrell Evans
Yeah.
14:16 William Schrimer
What you're
14:16
looking to do is you're trying
14:17
to minimize the chances you're
14:17
going to get a bad mishire.
14:20 Darrell Evans
Right.
14:21 William Schrimer
And to
14:21
maximize the chance that you're
14:23
getting a good fundamental fit
14:23
for your role. So that's
14:27
important concepts, like making
14:27
sure that more than one person
14:31
interviews, if possible, I
14:31
happen to work with one
14:34
executive, who probably was
14:34
literally a genius in terms of
14:38
his ability to manage a
14:38
business, but he was not great
14:41
with people. And he refused to,
14:41
I think, look in the mirror and
14:47
admit that this wasn't his
14:47
forte, and he needed to bring
14:51
other people into the recruiting
14:51
process to help him interview
14:54
and select. So I think not
14:54
letting pride get in the way and
14:58
making sure that you get a
14:58
second look at people and that
15:01
your decision is very
15:01
considered. So I think in terms
15:04
of recruiting, where things fall
15:04
down is absolutely at the
15:07
selection process. It's not a
15:07
distraction from your day job.
15:11
If you're a leader, it is your
15:11
day job to make sure that you're
15:14
still directing the right
15:14
people.
15:16 Darrell Evans
It is your job.
15:16
Well said. You know, you talk
15:19
about the interviewing process,
15:19
I still do it in my
15:21
organization. And I agree, I do
15:21
the first two then I usually
15:25
have some key people on my team
15:25
do interview three to make sure
15:28
I didn't mess up. And because as
15:28
an owner, a lot of times I want
15:32
to fill a seat but I'm also
15:32
smart enough to be cautious but
15:35
I'm also judicious enough to say
15:35
there is no perfect candidate. I
15:39
loved what you just said about
15:39
that. I want to talk a little
15:42
bit before we move on from
15:42
interviewing, I want to talk a
15:44
little bit about the distinction
15:44
between skills and competencies,
15:48
the stuff that's coachable or
15:48
trainable. And the intangibles
15:51
right, the behavioral side of
15:51
forming those questions, because
15:55
in my world, I've got three to
15:55
10 questions that I asked at
15:59
different stages the interview
15:59
process. And it's interesting,
16:03
because I can tell when I get
16:03
pre scripted answers, because
16:07
they're used to certain
16:07
interview structures or
16:10
interview styles, I'm a non
16:10
traditional interviewer. And I
16:13
think that has just been my own
16:13
process that I've developed. If
16:16
the audience member listening
16:16
right now is saying, got it.
16:20
Well, I got it. I've been doing
16:20
all of this. Did they go to this
16:24
school? Have they worked for
16:24
years here? Did they have this
16:28
skill, that skill? Do they know
16:28
how to use these pieces of
16:30
software? Like that's the
16:30
technical that's the science
16:33
part of it, right? That's either
16:33
a yes or no. And there's no gray
16:37
areas, whether it's acceptable
16:37
or not for you? What do you say?
16:40
Are there a couple of questions
16:40
that come to mind that are just
16:43
good ways to start to figure out
16:43
if this person behaviorally
16:46
intangibly that you can't see on
16:46
paper? And outside of how well
16:50
they dressed? Right? What do you
16:50
say to those, you get some
16:54
questions there.
16:55 William Schrimer
What I would
16:55
tell you is that behavioral
16:58
interviewing, it's a practice
16:58
art. And new interviewers are
17:04
going to find it a little
17:04
uncomfortable at first. But what
17:07
we're looking to do is go beyond
17:07
those canned answers. You're
17:11
right, we get them a lot in the
17:11
interviews. And the art is
17:16
around digging deeper beneath
17:16
that. Because to be honest, it
17:20
doesn't make much difference to
17:20
me where someone went to school,
17:23
did they get their degree? Great
17:23
if it was at Grand Valley State,
17:27
wonderful if it was Harvard?
17:27
Great. Good tip. Right. And
17:30
obviously, there are certain
17:30
schools we know have
17:32
reputations, but I want to dig
17:32
deeper beneath that to
17:35
understand how people think,
17:35
feel and react to certain
17:38
situations at work. So
17:38
behavioral interviewing is based
17:42
on the fact that the best
17:42
indicator of future behavior is
17:44
past behavior. Because we all
17:44
have behavioral patterns. Yes.
17:48
So for instance, you know, you
17:48
often get the answer, Well, I'm
17:52
a people person. And some
17:52
inexperienced interviewers will
17:55
say, Oh, that's great. Well,
17:55
it's great that they answered,
17:59
I'm a people person. But that
17:59
doesn't mean anything. Right?
18:03
Right. You want to dig beneath
18:03
that. So for instance, tell me
18:06
about a time you used your
18:06
people skills to successfully
18:09
manage conflict with a co worker
18:09
at work. Tell me about a time
18:12
that...
18:13 Darrell Evans
Tell me about a
18:13
time.
18:14 William Schrimer
Right? And
18:14
what you work are examples. And
18:19
I don't want people to be slaves
18:19
to behavioral interviewing,
18:21
right? Because you can ask
18:21
within the bounds of what is
18:24
legal and what is relevant. And
18:24
that's important, too. You can
18:28
ask what you want. But what you
18:28
really want is an understanding
18:32
of how people handled past
18:32
situations, and what the outcome
18:35
was. And so the person who says
18:35
I'm great at relationships,
18:40
wonderful. Tell me about a time
18:40
you use your relationship
18:43
building skills to convince a
18:43
reluctant coworker or customer
18:48
to share your point of view. Now
18:48
we're getting people to think
18:52
and follow up questions are key,
18:52
right? There's an art to this.
18:56
And it's called domino
18:56
questioning.
18:57 Darrell Evans
Yes.
18:58 William Schrimer
So someone
18:58
gives you an answer. And you go
19:01
beyond that, then you say, Well,
19:01
why did you choose the path you
19:03
did? Or, you know, why did you
19:03
choose to handle it the way you
19:07
did? And then they give you an
19:07
answer, and you follow up? And
19:10
you say, great, what would you
19:10
learn from it? For instance,
19:12
tell me about a time you made a
19:12
mistake at work? Yes. Now, you
19:16
may get people who own the
19:16
mistake or say it's someone
19:18
else's fault, right? I'm the
19:18
victim, I didn't really make a
19:21
mistake. And that begins to tell
19:21
us something. Right. And you
19:25
follow it up to say, well, you
19:25
know, how did you handle that
19:29
situation? Or you go into
19:29
digging deeper? And it's a three
19:33
part question, essentially, what
19:33
happened? Maybe Why did you
19:37
handle it the way you did? Or
19:37
how did you handle it? And the
19:40
third might be what did you
19:40
learn? So what did you learn
19:42
from that mistake? Yes. And
19:42
you're looking for things right,
19:46
you're looking for either? Well,
19:46
I learned not to make the boss
19:50
mad. Well, that's not really
19:50
learning, right? That's an
19:53
answer that indicates someone
19:53
doesn't really their part in the
19:56
situation.
19:57 Darrell Evans
Ownership, yep.
19:57 William Schrimer
So this whole
19:57
idea is fascinating. And when
20:00
you dig beneath, you begin to
20:00
learn a lot about what makes a
20:04
person tick because I can teach
20:04
skills most leaders, overvalue
20:09
skills and experience and
20:09
undervalue competencies and
20:12
personality traits. Yes. And I
20:12
think that's key. You know, I
20:16
can teach you a skill about the
20:16
techniques around phone
20:19
screening, if you're a
20:19
recruiter, or how to handle an
20:22
employee grievance. If you're a
20:22
generalist in HR, I can teach
20:27
you to show up for work on time,
20:27
right, be cooperative, and to
20:31
build good relationships easily.
20:31
And those are the things as a
20:35
small business leader, for
20:35
instance, I want out of my
20:38
people, I want good raw
20:38
competencies that I'll build
20:41
around. Because smaller
20:41
businesses don't have the
20:44
bandwidth, they don't have the
20:44
time to take on projects. When
20:47
it comes to new people,
20:49 Darrell Evans
yeah, unpacked a
20:49
ton there. This Tell me about a
20:52
time when insert blank, right,
20:52
and that's them being able to
20:57
look in their past. And, you
20:57
know, I'm often interviewing a
21:00
lot of young folks coming into
21:00
the world of digital marketing.
21:03
And they may not have a time in
21:03
the past that is going to
21:06
replicate something that might
21:06
happen in my world today, with
21:08
our business. So a question I
21:08
would use, or a different way of
21:11
asking is, if you were in a
21:11
situation that and describe the
21:15
situation, can you describe what
21:15
you think you might do? Right,
21:19
this is forward pacing, this is
21:19
one question I've used because I
21:22
interview a lot of people that
21:22
are young to the digital
21:24
marketing space. And so I'm
21:24
giving them an opportunity to
21:27
forecast how they think they
21:27
might react. And then the other
21:30
way is for me to go back in the
21:30
past and take a real problem
21:33
that happened in my business, my
21:33
organization with a client with
21:36
a campaign, and say, I'm going
21:36
to tell you a story, I'm gonna
21:39
put you in the story and tell me
21:39
what you would do if you were in
21:42
the story back then. And it's
21:42
just kind of another way to get
21:44
them to go back. And even if
21:44
they're not at the level to
21:47
where they could technically
21:47
handle, I just want to hear
21:49
their thought process. And
21:49
that's what you were talking
21:51
about. You're like, you are
21:51
literally saying, but tell me
21:54
why you made that decision.
21:54
Right. And then one other
21:57
question you probably use as
21:57
well, which is, if you were to
21:59
do it all over again, what would
21:59
you do differently? It's not
22:03
judgmental, to say it was right
22:03
or wrong. But if you were to do
22:05
it again, what would you do
22:05
differently? And that's another
22:08
one of those ones that just as
22:08
hypothetical. I think, like
22:10
you're saying peeling back other
22:10
layers to how they think,
22:14
because how they think matters,
22:14
right? It's just how they think,
22:19
you know, just help me
22:19
understand how you think. And
22:20
I've only got a few minutes in
22:20
this interview. So hurry up, no
22:23
I'm just playin.
22:24 William Schrimer
Yeah, it's
22:24
exactly right. Right, people are
22:27
onions, you have to peel back
22:27
the layers to really find out
22:30
what the core looks like. And
22:30
the questions that you've
22:33
mentioned are great, right? When
22:33
you have somebody who lacks
22:36
experience, just give them a
22:36
hypothetical and ask, how would
22:40
you handle it? Because you're
22:40
getting the same answer the same
22:43
type of thought process, in
22:43
scenario based questioning that
22:46
you're mentioning, that's a
22:46
wonderful way of digging further
22:50
beneath, give someone a simple
22:50
scenario and ask, how would you
22:53
handle it? Tell me why you'd
22:53
handle it that way. Because now
22:56
you're getting beneath this to
22:56
really understand how a person
23:00
handle situations or problems.
23:00
Those are great examples of good
23:04
questioning techniques.
23:05 Darrell Evans
What are you
23:05
looking for when you bring in
23:07
other interviewers? So the
23:07
recruiter or whoever that
23:11
initial first or second
23:11
interviewer is, why is it
23:14
important that other folks on
23:14
the team talked about the
23:17
dynamic of what you're hoping to
23:17
accomplish there, or the bias
23:20
that you're hoping to remove
23:20
there? I've got some thoughts in
23:23
my mind, but I want to hear from
23:23
your side of it.
23:24 William Schrimer
Yeah, there's
23:24
a few things. So we all have
23:27
biases, and we all have blind
23:27
spots. If you're the sole person
23:31
interviewing, you're at the
23:31
mercy of those in terms of your
23:34
hire, if you have someone else
23:34
also interviewing their blind
23:39
spots, and their biases and
23:39
yours are bound to not be the
23:42
same. And hopefully, of course,
23:42
you're aware enough to try and
23:45
minimize those biases. So the
23:45
other is, quite simply, you're
23:48
getting a different perspective
23:48
on the hire. And you're looking
23:51
for consistency, too. So for
23:51
instance, if you're
23:55
interviewing, not in a panel
23:55
format, but one after the other,
23:59
you're looking to see is the
23:59
candidate representing
24:01
themselves in an authentic way
24:01
anyone can fake their way
24:04
through an hour interview?
24:05 Darrell Evans
Yeah.
24:06 William Schrimer
That's not
24:06
difficult. The key is to dig
24:09
beneath to find out is this
24:09
person, authentic? Is this
24:12
person representing themselves
24:12
genuinely so you look for
24:15
consistency and answers. If it's
24:15
in a panel interview, you want
24:19
someone else to be able to
24:19
follow up on your questions. So
24:23
the art of probing or dominant
24:23
questioning, you may ask a
24:26
question, and then be satisfied
24:26
with the answer. Your colleagues
24:31
might say, Well, tell me a
24:31
little bit more about why you
24:34
did something the way you did.
24:34
They may help you with these
24:36
follow up questions to help you
24:36
dig deeper for this to be a
24:40
better type of interview. So
24:40
those are some of the reasons
24:43
why and frankly, we all know at
24:43
work that best practices put in
24:47
place through debate and
24:47
discussion. And this is one of
24:51
the most important decisions
24:51
that you'll make. So there
24:54
shouldn't be some lively debate
24:54
about candidates. It's okay to
24:56
disagree. And it's okay to to
24:56
have some debate about whether
25:01
to move someone forward in the
25:01
process or not. That's a good
25:04
thing. I'm always scared when
25:04
everybody loves the candidate.
25:08
Right, but well, that they're
25:08
perfect. That makes me really
25:12
nervous, because no one is
25:12
perfect. And you're going to put
25:15
someone up on a pedestal when
25:15
you hire them and then knock
25:17
them off because you created an
25:17
expectation that's impossible
25:21
for them to meet. So this is why
25:21
we bring others into the
25:25
interview process.
25:26 Darrell Evans
So let's move
25:26
forward. We've got through that
25:30
interview stage. They're now on
25:30
the team. I want to kind of move
25:33
into now team, collaboration and
25:33
manage Man, what are some of the
25:37
big challenges? Not just with
25:37
brand new hires, but in general
25:40
team management, talent
25:40
management, as we talked about
25:43
this general term, you know,
25:43
businesses, whether they're
25:46
small, mid or really large in
25:46
that in 5000, you know,
25:49
categories. What are some of the
25:49
challenges right now that
25:52
leaders are facing with people
25:52
management slash talent
25:56
management, and humans are
25:56
humans no matter how big the
25:59
team or smallest, so I'm sure
25:59
you've seen some common themes.
26:01
What are those?
26:02 William Schrimer
There are in
26:02
one of the things I won't
26:04
belabor this point too much, but
26:04
it is in onboarding. Onboarding
26:09
is a crucial part of an
26:09
individual's employment
26:13
experience. And leaders that
26:13
work really hard to generate
26:18
candidates and then select to
26:18
hire sometimes largely abandoned
26:22
someone to the forces of fate
26:22
when they come in first day.
26:27
Because they're too busy to
26:27
train and coach, initially, they
26:29
got too many other things going
26:29
on with the business. And so the
26:33
new hire flounders, you know,
26:33
there's an unstructured
26:37
experience for them in the first
26:37
few weeks where they sit next to
26:40
someone doing the job, and we
26:40
expect them to learn by osmosis.
26:45
It just doesn't happen that way.
26:48 Darrell Evans
To shadow them,
26:49 William Schrimer
Exactly, just
26:49
shadow them, because I'm too
26:51
busy now that I've hired you I'm
26:51
actually to busy to manage you.
26:55 Darrell Evans
I'm sorry to be
26:55
laughing. This is not this is
26:57
serious stuff. I shouldn't be.
26:57
But it's true.
26:59 William Schrimer
It's true. And
26:59
it's ironic, isn't it? I mean, I
27:01
think this is the part where,
27:01
you know, we have to approach
27:04
the job with some real humanity
27:04
and humor, right, because that's
27:08
what our people expect from us
27:08
too. But I will say onboarding,
27:11
you know, structure, that
27:11
onboarding experience, make sure
27:13
you know, who's training and
27:13
when, because new hires are
27:17
really sensitive to everything
27:17
you say and do and they're going
27:21
to make a decision very quickly,
27:21
within the first few weeks about
27:24
whether this is just a holdover
27:24
job, or whether they think they
27:27
can build a career. And if they
27:27
leave you month, eight, they
27:31
were looking month three, it
27:31
just took them a while to find
27:34
the job. So onboarding is, is
27:34
really important.
27:38 Darrell Evans
Can I ask you
27:38
really quick?
27:39 William Schrimer
Yeah.
27:39 Darrell Evans
It's not a boring
27:39
topic. And listen, I think we
27:42
need to spend some time here.
27:42
Because, you know, if we go back
27:44
to the beginning of our talk, we
27:44
were talking about what people
27:47
leave bosses, they hate it, hate
27:47
maybe a strong word. But
27:51
onboarding really plays into
27:51
them. You know, it's like that
27:56
relationship thought process, if
27:56
we're talking about dating a
27:59
spouse or significant other or
27:59
someone that we're interested
28:02
in, it's like, okay, date number
28:02
one was the nice cool stuff at
28:06
the bar, the drinks, the dinner,
28:06
but it's really what happens in
28:09
that near term phase. And I
28:09
think that's what onboarding is
28:12
someone, they wanted a job. So
28:12
they showed up with their best
28:15
selves. You wanted someone in
28:15
the seat, so you show up with
28:18
your energy of wanting to find
28:18
the right person? Now we've said
28:22
yes. So I really think what
28:22
you're talking and it was a
28:24
lesson I had to learn. I did it
28:24
wrong. For a number of years, 20
28:28
years ago, I can think of three
28:28
or four scenarios, I just did it
28:31
wrong, completely wrong, didn't
28:31
pay attention, onboarding,
28:34
didn't pay attention to that
28:34
experience. And we think about
28:37
serving our customers at a high
28:37
level, why don't we treat our
28:39
team at a high level? Why don't
28:39
we treat that new person
28:42
organization and a high level?
28:42
So talk a bit more about that?
28:45
What are some ways, again, maybe
28:45
frameworks or structures. And I
28:50
know this can't work for
28:50
everyone, because a large
28:52
organization I remember, early
28:52
in my days, I had a six week
28:57
thing with a company. That was a
28:57
big company. That was a six week
29:01
thing before I ever technically
29:01
got to the job, like six weeks I
29:04
was in this world of getting on
29:04
board it to the company did no
29:08
work. That doesn't work for the
29:08
entrepreneurial firm that has
29:11
two employees, three employees,
29:11
10 employees. What kinds of
29:15
topical things should an
29:15
organizational leader do to get
29:18
that person acclimated? That may
29:18
be a better word acclimated.
29:22 William Schrimer
Yes, there are
29:22
a few things. The first is
29:25
prepare for day one. When new
29:25
hires come in, and you're
29:29
clearing, old papers are way off
29:29
the desk, and there's no access
29:34
for them. And you spend tons of
29:34
time and energy, randomly,
29:40
showing them around introducing
29:40
them to people who probably
29:43
don't need to be interrupted,
29:43
all of this leaves a bad
29:46
impression. So prepare for day
29:46
one, right? Make sure that
29:49
they've got the supplies the
29:49
access, that you have organized
29:53
a schedule, which is crucial, I
29:53
think if if leaders need to only
29:57
remember two or three things,
29:57
one is prepare for day one, two
30:00
is create a schedule for
30:00
onboarding, day by day, hour by
30:04
hour. Make sure that you know
30:04
what they're going to be doing.
30:07
Now, small businesses don't have
30:07
the time but what I would tell
30:10
you is there's always pressure
30:10
big business. It's the same
30:14
thing. Well, I've hired them now
30:14
I have to get them up to speed
30:17
as if two weeks is going to make
30:17
or break the business. I
30:21
understand that the business
30:21
impact is bigger, right with
30:24
small businesses in terms of
30:24
carrying that extra payroll. But
30:29
if you invest the time now
30:29
you're going to see a much
30:32
greater payoff later. So be
30:32
realistic about How much time it
30:37
takes to get your person up to
30:37
speed and know who you're going
30:39
to introduce them to. So there's
30:39
a stakeholder map, who do they
30:44
need to build relationships
30:44
with? Who do they need to
30:46
shadow? Who are they going to
30:46
need to work with in order to do
30:50
their job successfully. So I
30:50
think those are some things on
30:53
the other side inculturation. So
30:53
oftentimes, leaders will forget
30:58
to talk a little bit about what
30:58
the culture is like. And they
31:02
allow people to then stumble
31:02
into cultural minefields, where
31:07
they learn only because they've
31:07
made a bad mistake, upset one of
31:10
their co workers, violated some
31:10
cultural Moray, and now they're
31:16
immediately on someone's bad
31:16
list. And that's not a great way
31:18
to career. So talk culture, talk
31:18
about expectations, as well.
31:24
Early on, go through the job
31:24
description, go through how the
31:27
success is measured. These are
31:27
the KPIs or measurables that we
31:31
use. This is how you'll know if
31:31
you're doing a good job. Yeah, I
31:34
love that things are important.
31:34
So yeah, the first two to four
31:38
weeks, you know, cover some of
31:38
those basic things. We could
31:42
talk for an hour just in this
31:42
area. But I think if we had to
31:44
boil it down to three or four
31:44
points, these would be the ones
31:47
that focus on.
31:47 Darrell Evans
No, I love it,
31:47
just you know that that last
31:49
piece, when rubs my tell them,
31:49
what the heck they're going to
31:54
be graded on, don't tell them
31:54
after they've done something
31:57
wrong, give them the rules of
31:57
engagement up front. Like, it's
32:03
just the worst thing, don't tell
32:03
them, they're going to be
32:05
penalized for something after
32:05
they've already done it. You
32:08
know, this is crazy. And this is
32:08
not the ordinary stuff, this
32:10
ain't showing up for work late,
32:10
call him off sick, we're talking
32:13
about the rules of your
32:13
performance. Right? So yeah, I'm
32:17
gonna throw something in just
32:17
because it's just this begging
32:20
for me in my head, because I've
32:20
been, you know, my 30th year of
32:24
being in and around
32:24
entrepreneurship. And then 11
32:27
years with a number of companies
32:27
coaching, consulting, helping
32:30
etc. Well, you have probably
32:30
seen in your run, superstar
32:35
talented people who are toxic to
32:35
the organization, and their
32:39
supervisor and or leadership
32:39
will not let that person go, or
32:45
they will not address the
32:45
toxicity. And I know you talk
32:48
about, you know, managing and
32:48
motivating teams, but what if
32:52
the team is motivated, but as
32:52
this person, you know, in a lot
32:57
of where I come from, it's the
32:57
salesperson, somebody in sales,
33:00
who's making it rain, right?
33:00
They're making it rain with all
33:02
the revenue, but they're a
33:02
jackass. Right? And nobody will
33:06
call them to the carpet on that.
33:06
So and it doesn't have to be a
33:09
salesperson. But talk to us
33:09
about that their toxic
33:12
superstar. What do you do with
33:12
that person?
33:15 William Schrimer
Yeah, I've had
33:15
this absolutely happen, where
33:19
executives and organizations
33:19
fail to address this. And of
33:23
course, you talk about the best
33:23
ideas being stolen. One of the
33:26
best quotes I've ever heard
33:26
about corporate culture, is that
33:30
the culture in your team is the
33:30
worst performance or behavior
33:33
that you'll accept. That's it.
33:33
It's that simple, that the bar
33:38
that you set for performance and
33:38
behavior, absolutely dictates
33:42
the culture. And I remember one
33:42
superstar, who exactly that the
33:50
brought in the revenue, but they
33:50
were putting the organization at
33:53
legal risk because of the way
33:53
that they interacted with
33:56
customers. And frankly, they
33:56
were just a massive pain to deal
34:00
with. They were incredibly
34:00
disrespectful in bullying to
34:03
their co workers. And it took a
34:03
little while to convince the CEO
34:09
of this organization, that you
34:09
can train someone else to be a
34:13
superstar in terms of what this
34:13
person did. They're not the only
34:17
one out there that can do the
34:17
job, hey, they're doing a great
34:21
job. And yes, there may be a
34:21
short term pain, it's like
34:25
ripping the band aid off to give
34:25
the wound some air to properly
34:29
heal. And that's what happens.
34:29
This is about leadership
34:33
integrity, and the most
34:33
courageous leaders need to put
34:38
the standard in place where they
34:38
know that lying cheating and
34:40
stealing is not okay. And if
34:40
you're a superstar, your
34:44
performance doesn't exempt you
34:44
from those things. And if you're
34:48
struggling, you need to know
34:48
that you can't cheat your way to
34:50
safety either. And so it
34:50
certainly happened where yes, in
34:56
the end, I had the I'm going to
34:56
say task, but I think in my
35:01
case, it was probably privilege
35:01
of going down and telling that
35:04
person that they can no longer
35:04
be employed with the
35:07
organization. Because they just
35:07
didn't belong. There negative
35:12
effect on the rest of the team
35:12
was was horrible.
35:14 Darrell Evans
Yes.
35:14 William Schrimer
And we can
35:14
produce more great producers. If
35:18
you're a great leader or
35:18
executive and you did it once
35:21
with this person, you can do it
35:21
again. And again. That's a sign
35:24
of great leadership. So you do
35:24
have to address this No, take
35:27
them aside. Sometimes they just
35:27
don't know that they are, let's
35:30
say arrogant enough or perhaps
35:30
self centered enough that they
35:33
don't realize the effect and you
35:33
can you know, enjoy that gives
35:37
people a chance to, to
35:37
understand that part of being a
35:40
superstar is also leading by
35:40
example, that that's the value
35:44
that they bring to your team. If
35:44
the value is nothing more than
35:47
revenue, I can get more of those
35:47
people. So if you address it,
35:52
and that person changes,
35:52
wonderful, if you address it,
35:55
and they know that they're doing
35:55
it, and they just don't care, or
35:59
they don't change, then you have
35:59
a decision to make. And it's not
36:03
all that difficult a decision.
36:03
If you look strategically at
36:06
your business, you can quite
36:06
simply get or manufacture
36:10
another superstar. But don't
36:10
allow someone like that to
36:13
poison the culture of the team
36:13
and poison the morale because
36:17
that, in fact, is long term. And
36:17
they cause turnover amongst the
36:21
rest of the team, the say,
36:21
average performer, who by the
36:25
way, is the heart of your team,
36:25
right? The average Joe, so to
36:28
speak, is the person that's
36:28
perhaps adding value to the team
36:33
beyond the revenue. And you
36:33
can't sacrifice those people
36:36
again, and again, and again, for
36:36
the sake of one superstar.
36:40 Darrell Evans
Yeah, gotta be
36:40
willing to bench the star
36:41
player. There's a phrase I use,
36:41
I did get it from a leadership
36:45
training. It's just a mindset
36:45
now, and that is when I'm
36:48
interviewing, and I'm looking at
36:48
my team. And this is not just at
36:51
the point of interview or the
36:51
point of hire, it's as time goes
36:54
on in the organization. And I
36:54
can think of one very difficult
36:57
termination we made in 2014. And
36:57
they'd been with us since 2011.
37:04
And it wasn't because of talent,
37:04
it was because we believe this
37:08
is a phrase, we use an
37:08
organization like what is their
37:10
coachability index, right? And
37:10
if their coachability index
37:14
slides back into the six range,
37:14
and we try to get it back up, I
37:19
mean, so we're looking at has
37:19
their coachability changed. And
37:23
that's usually a tough one for
37:23
us. And for me, if you become
37:27
less coachable, and you're not
37:27
willing to address the facts and
37:31
make those leadership
37:31
improvements, if you are a
37:33
superstar, then it's time for us
37:33
to trade you to a new team. I'm
37:37
a sports guy. So I use a lot of
37:37
sports analogies.
37:39 William Schrimer
Yeah,
37:39
absolutely. Right. We all know
37:41
that there's numerous examples
37:41
of superstar players in sports
37:44
who have been traded.
37:45 Darrell Evans
That's right.
37:45 William Schrimer
Because
37:45
they're a pain in the locker
37:47
room. And this is no different.
37:48 Darrell Evans
No different man,
37:48
we got so much to go. I
37:51
definitely want to ask about
37:51
best practices around keeping
37:53
these motivated, engaged, highly
37:53
performing. We've been talking a
37:57
little about some of the
37:57
challenging types of things,
37:59
getting people in the door, that
37:59
kind of thing. But let's talk
38:01
about motivating teams and some
38:01
of those best practices that you
38:03
see that leaders should be
38:03
implementing in their businesses
38:06
today.
38:07 William Schrimer
Yes, I think
38:07
the first is don't rely
38:10
overwhelmingly on external
38:10
motivators. This is common with
38:13
new leaders and inexpert Does
38:13
that mean I'm sorry. So an
38:17
external motivators, anything
38:17
that has to be given to your
38:19
people money,
38:21 Darrell Evans
oh, incentives.
38:24 William Schrimer
Right. And
38:24
it's interesting, you know, I
38:26
had, I had a lively conversation
38:26
with one executive who said, but
38:30
money motivates behavior. It's
38:30
as simple as that.
38:32 Darrell Evans
That's not true.
38:33 William Schrimer
Well,
38:33
remember, if we go back to the
38:35
significant research regarding
38:35
why people leave, and what
38:39
motivates people, money is
38:39
typically not in the top two or
38:43
three. Now, it's not
38:43
unimportant, right? We all know
38:46
that we have to pay the bills.
38:46
But when people reach a point
38:49
where they feel like they're
38:49
fundamentally paid fairly, then
38:54
money becomes a hygiene factor.
38:54
You can throw more at people,
38:58
and you get a rapidly decreasing
38:58
return on your investment.
39:02
Because if the boss is a pain,
39:02
if the work environments toxic,
39:06
if there's no challenge, if
39:06
there's no ability to grow,
39:10
then, frankly, money is
39:10
obviously the ultimate
39:13
commodity. We can all get more
39:13
of it down the road. If we look
39:16
hard enough, often when you look
39:16
at leaders and they'll say,
39:19
Well, I motivate people through
39:19
contests, or it's the bonus,
39:23
that's a fragile place to be if
39:23
you're an employee, because it
39:27
can be withheld. Look at COVID,
39:27
the bonuses that people counted
39:31
on getting in the races. They
39:31
didn't happen for most companies
39:35
and many companies, of course,
39:35
cut staff. So it's a safer place
39:39
to be as both an employee and a
39:39
leader is when you tap into
39:41
internal motivations. Pride, the
39:41
ability to build relationships,
39:47
good relationships with
39:47
coworkers, customer service,
39:50
autonomy, inclusion, growth,
39:50
learning challenges, right.
39:55
There's lots of internal
39:55
motivators that we have, that as
39:59
a leader, if you're perceptive
39:59
you can tap into and that's
40:02
repeatable. That's something
40:02
that the competition down the
40:04
road doesn't know today, what's
40:04
going to motivate your star
40:08
player to do more. And that's
40:08
key. So I think realizing that
40:14
money isn't the primary way to
40:14
sustainably motivate. It's a
40:18
bandaid. We've all seen it and
40:18
we've all used it in certain
40:22
cases, throwing the retention
40:22
bonus at people or the the
40:26
golden Hello handshake. But
40:26
people quickly spend money and
40:30
they forget who gave it to them.
40:30
Yeah, they spent.
40:33 Darrell Evans
Wow.
40:33 William Schrimer
So that makes
40:33
it one of the least powerful
40:37
motivators in the long term,
40:37
good practice around motivating
40:41
is to find out what each of your
40:41
people are motivated by, because
40:45
it's bound to be different. But
40:45
there are some collective
40:48
motivators, some good practices
40:48
around providing autonomy,
40:53
empowering your people,
40:53
including them in decision
40:55
making. And that's just good
40:55
basic leadership practice that
40:59
we need to look at. So tap into
40:59
those internal motivators, I
41:03
would say whatever they may be,
41:03
because that's going to help you
41:06
most in the long term as a
41:06
leader, and it'll improve your
41:08
relationship with your people.
41:10 Darrell Evans
I love it, we've
41:10
just begun to unpack this here.
41:13
But if they pick up leadership
41:13
core, and I want to ask you
41:15
about your next book coming out,
41:15
tell the audience what they're
41:18
going to get when they finish
41:18
that book,
41:19 William Schrimer
Just some good
41:19
tips that they can easily
41:21
implement to enhance their own
41:21
leadership. So it was born out
41:25
of by development of numerous
41:25
leadership programs for
41:28
organizations. So we cover a
41:28
handful of subjects, the first
41:33
is character. So we talk about
41:33
leadership character, and how
41:36
important integrity is and
41:36
humility, for example, and
41:40
compassion. Because leaders have
41:40
to lead with both their heart
41:43
and their hand, people don't
41:43
leave their emotions at the
41:46
door. And as a matter of fact,
41:46
you want them coming with
41:49
motion, because you want to tap
41:49
into it for mutual benefit. So
41:53
we talked about that performance
41:53
management's a big one. So I'm
41:56
passionate about performance
41:56
management, it's been a big part
41:59
of what I've done. And it's the
41:59
bottom line, it's why leaders
42:02
exist, is to help the
42:02
organizations perform well, by
42:06
managing the work of others.
42:06
Change management's a big one,
42:09
we talk about change management,
42:09
servant see and stewardship,
42:13
which is an aspect of
42:13
leadership, and how to develop
42:15
other people as well. So another
42:15
big part, and we've covered it a
42:20
fair bit is acquiring talent and
42:20
building teams too. So there's a
42:23
core of about seven subjects
42:23
here. And it's designed as a,
42:28
I'm gonna say, a primer. But
42:28
it's not just designed for new
42:30
leaders. It's designed for every
42:30
level of leader to take away
42:33
some best practices around these
42:33
things. So that's what we talk
42:37
about. And hopefully, they'll
42:37
get a good overview in which
42:40
people can reflect on their own
42:40
leadership, and take these tips
42:43
away. And each main competency
42:43
to enhance that about their
42:47
leadership.
42:48 Darrell Evans
Nice, I love it,
42:48
appreciate you writing the book,
42:50
just think about my journey. My
42:50
first leadership role was at the
42:53
age of 20. I'm now 51. And I
42:53
always believe that I'm still
42:57
constantly learning. And I don't
42:57
really know anything I just
43:01
mentally do. So when I pick up a
43:01
book like yours, and I'll see
43:04
one of those seven that's going
43:04
to speak to where I'm at, in my
43:06
journey today, some awareness,
43:06
something new COVID was just 12
43:10
months ago, what am I doing now
43:10
on the other side of COVID, all
43:13
of these kinds of things. So I
43:13
think as good leaders, we're
43:15
always evolving. And we can
43:15
always be honest with our self
43:18
assessments and say, there's a
43:18
topic here that I can grab some
43:21
perspective from tell us about
43:21
your upcoming book.
43:24 William Schrimer
Yes, the next
43:24
book is a little bit of a
43:26
different take, but not wholly
43:26
unrelated. Really, it's it's
43:29
called finding joy and
43:29
prosperity in life. And it was
43:34
actually built from a from a
43:34
ground level leadership program,
43:38
in which we were defining the
43:38
competencies for people who were
43:42
thinking about leadership. So we
43:42
were preparing people to take
43:44
their first step into
43:44
leadership. And really what we
43:47
were talking about was before
43:47
you can lead others, you need to
43:50
know how to lead yourself
43:50
successfully. And so it evolved.
43:54
And as I was thinking about the
43:54
book, I said, Well, this really
43:57
isn't a program regarding how to
43:57
step into leadership. It's a
44:00
subject that speaks to how to
44:00
live a more fulfilled life, a
44:04
happier life. And so we talked
44:04
about things like emotional
44:08
intelligence, resilience and
44:08
managing stress, how to develop
44:12
yourself, we talk about
44:12
character, again as well. So
44:16
some of these subjects are
44:16
really core self awareness is a
44:19
big one, we cover emotional
44:19
intelligence and self awareness
44:22
a lot. So hopefully, people will
44:22
come out of reading the book
44:26
again, with a greater awareness
44:26
of the things that are
44:32
counterproductive in terms of
44:32
their thoughts and actions in
44:35
leading a happier life and some
44:35
of the things that they can do
44:37
or focus on to find that
44:37
happiness hopefully, and success
44:41
a little quicker.
44:42 Darrell Evans
Sounds good. I
44:42
can't wait to that one comes out
44:44
make sure you let us know when
44:44
that is out. Great subject Well,
44:47
where can people find you and
44:47
connect with you online,
44:50 William Schrimer
So they can
44:50
connect through my website it's
44:52
WillSchrimerofficial.com. The
44:52
book today The Leadership Core
45:03
can be found on amazon.com,
45:03
Barnes noble.com The ebook
45:06
version is already out. And then
45:06
the second book is out on ebook
45:11
in early 2022.
45:13 Darrell Evans
That's awesome.
45:13
Well really appreciate you being
45:15
here on the show. And my final
45:15
question is if for whatever
45:18
reason today was your last day
45:18
here on this beautiful planet we
45:20
call earth what would you want
45:20
everyone to remember you for?
45:24 William Schrimer
I hope it's
45:24
providing a little bit more joy
45:26
or happiness in other's lives at
45:26
work hopefully that was because
45:30
I developed people and they
45:30
found a little bit of humor. We
45:32
did a lot of humorous things at
45:32
work in my teams, and hopefully
45:35
those that knew me outside of
45:35
work would say that I made them
45:38
laugh at least once so hard they
45:38
cried that.
45:42 Darrell Evans
That's a good
45:42
one. Thank you so much for being
45:44
here.
45:44 William Schrimer
Thanks so
45:44
much. I appreciate it. And best
45:46
of luck to you.
45:47 Darrell Evans
Thank you.
45:47 William Schrimer
Thanks,
45:47
Darrell. Bye.
45:50 The MindShift Podcast
Hey, my
45:50
friend. Thanks again for
45:52
listening to today's episode of
45:52
the mind shift podcast. Listen,
45:54
let's not have the conversation
45:54
in here connect with me on
45:57
social @mrdarrellevans. Until
45:57
next week, remember you're just
46:08
one shift away from the
46:08
breakthrough you're looking for.