Podland News

The last word in podcasting news. Every Thursday, James Cridland from Podnews in Australia and Sam Sethi, from 'Podcast First' River Radio in the UK, review and analyse some of the week's top podcasting news from around the world. They also interview some of the biggest names making the news. Sponsored by Buzzsprout and SquadCast.

https://podland.news

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episode 62: Crowd Network launches in Manchester, James launches 'Podnews Report Cards', Facebook launches audio rooms, Podping launches live notifications and Sam launches The Crafty Tug? [transcript]


SPECIAL GUEST:

  • Mike Carr. - Crowd Network 

NEWS:

  • Spotify has acquired Podsights and Chartable

  • Spotify has published an interview with Sean Creeley from Podsights

  • Apple has just published a guide to getting promotion for your podcast from Apple Podcasts

  • Breakit, a Swedish news website, has published an article (translated) that alleges downloads are being bought on Spotify

  • iHeartRadio in the US has signed with Sounder to offer advertisers brand safety tools. The company is a seed investor in Sounder’s latest Series A funding round

  • Podnews is launching the first annual report card for the podcast industry. Please give your views here before Mar 1.

  • Delegate day passes have just gone on sale for The Podcast Show 2022, coming to London in May. May 25-26  You can get your day passes today - use promo code PODNEWS for 20% off a limited number of day passes. Podnews is a media partner (and we’ll be there)

  • A podcast has turned into its own radio station in the UK

  • Facebook appears to have rolled-out audio rooms across the world 

  • Amazon and Spotify are both said to be considering buying Audioboom

EVENTS: 

  • Podcast Futures 2022: Feb 22 · Virtual · free
  • Podcast Movement: Evolutions: Mar 23 · Los Angeles, California, USA
  • The Podcast Show 2022: May 25 · London, England, UK


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 2022-02-18  56m
 
 
00:00  James
Welcome to Parkland.
00:00
The last word in
00:00
podcasting news.
00:02
It's the 17th of February, 2022.
00:05
I am James critter and the
00:05
editor of pod news.net and on
00:08  Sam
sub sector, the
00:08
MD of river radio,
00:10  Mike
And I might call and later
00:10
I'll talk about crowd network.
00:13  James
He will Podland is
00:13
sponsored by Buzzsprout podcast.
00:16
Hosting made easy last
00:16
week, 4,595 people started
00:21
hosting with Buzzsprout.
00:22
You can do@buzzsprout.com.
00:23
And if you can use chapters
00:23
in your podcast out there,
00:26
Buzzsprout supports those.
00:27  Sam
Now it's a
00:27
busy week, James.
00:29
So brace yourself Sheila,
00:29
it's been a buying week.
00:32
Spotify last night bought
00:32
two companies, pod slates.
00:37
And chartable now, James,
00:37
what do you make of it all?
00:40  James
Yeah, it's interesting.
00:42
Isn't it?
00:43
Why buy one when
00:43
you can buy two.
00:44
so pod sites is a podcast
00:44
advertising measurement
00:48
service that helps advertisers
00:48
better measure and scale
00:51
their podcast advertising.
00:53
chartable I always thought
00:53
it was quite similar, but it
00:56
turns out that what Spotify have
00:56
bought chartable for at least
00:59
is promotional attribution or.
01:02
audience insight tools,
01:02
all of that sort of thing.
01:05
and they've bought both of
01:05
them and announced that on
01:08
Wednesday evening in the U S
01:08
yes, quite big news this week.
01:12  Sam
I thought it was
01:12
quite interesting.
01:14
Twitter, to have a look at
01:14
what people have been reacting
01:16
Nilay Patel said on the one
01:16
hand, Spotify is trying to
01:19
monopolize the entire podcast
01:19
industry through acquisition
01:23
and Walt Mossberg came back
01:23
with, you could conclude that
01:25
Spotify is destroying one of the
01:25
last vestiges of the open web.
01:29
so quite harsh on that one.
01:31
gosh.
01:31  James
I'm not so sure
01:31
about that, to be honest.
01:33
but I think that, Spotify
01:33
is clearly wanting to get
01:36
a little bit more data.
01:37
the problem with this is that
01:37
it's data, which is available.
01:40
About podcasts and it's
01:40
normally, this is very useful,
01:45
third party data to help people
01:45
understand how their podcasts
01:49
to going and everything else.
01:50
the problem is, of course
01:50
it's no longer third-party
01:52
data because it'll now be
01:52
data that's owned by Spotify.
01:55
so I would imagine that
01:55
there'll be quite a few people.
01:59
Who'll be there going, I'm not
01:59
quite sure that I want Spotify
02:02
to know all of this data.
02:03
Thank you very much.
02:03
And coming out of using both
02:03
pod sites and, chartable,
02:08
you won't be able to use
02:08
chartable anymore because
02:10
chartable is being completely
02:10
folded into megaphone.
02:12
whereas pod sites is going to
02:12
continue as a separate thing
02:16
and they've been sending around
02:16
lots of, very interesting
02:19
FAQ's today saying that pod
02:19
sites will not share individual
02:23
publisher deals with Spotify
02:23
is publishing business.
02:26
but, we've only got
02:26
their word for it really.
02:27  Sam
Christmas scene.
02:28
I think some of it up well
02:28
for those who don't really
02:31
understand what those two
02:31
companies are instead, imagine
02:34
Google analytics for podcasts,
02:34
which is a good, analogy to use.
02:39
And he said it could be used
02:39
for any audio for that matter.
02:41
I think they're talking
02:41
about extending this to music
02:43
Not just to podcasts
02:45  James
Yeah, which I think,
02:45
would make an awful lot
02:46
of sense because they do
02:46
have all of that data.
02:49
some, really interesting,
02:49
acquisitions.
02:51
it's great news for, Dave and
02:51
the team at chartable, Dave
02:54
is a really, good bloke and
02:54
a, a really thoughtful guy, so
02:59
great to see him, succeeding,
02:59
there and, taking chartable
03:03
into Spotify, which is good.
03:05
and, great news for pod
03:05
sites, Sean Creeley and
03:09
the team there I remember,
03:09
they bought at some very
03:11
nice beer one evening in LA.
03:13
so good for both of those.
03:16
as I say, it'll be interesting
03:16
seeing what happens in terms
03:19
of all of this data, not
03:19
being third party data and.
03:22
that's not, of course the only
03:22
Spotify news is a wonderful
03:25
piece of, reporting from
03:25
breakage, which is a Swedish
03:28
news website, which has
03:28
published an article, which
03:32
basically says that they tried.
03:33
to get 130,000 listens to
03:33
their podcast, and spent $500
03:39
doing so, and also managed
03:39
to buy 50,000 plays, to a
03:44
fake song that they managed
03:44
to get onto Spotify as well.
03:48
so there's some interesting
03:48
stories there around, buying
03:52
stuff on Spotify and basically
03:52
defrauding Spotify, which is, an
03:56
interesting news story broken,
03:56
of course, as you would expect
04:00
in a Swedish news website.
04:02
so interesting to see
04:02
that sort of stuff.
04:03  Sam
it looks like by a
04:03
podcast movement, we'll
04:06
all be working for Spotify.
04:07
So it won't really
04:07
matter by then.
04:08  James
Yeah.
04:09
and let's be fair inside radio
04:09
and whatever it is that their
04:12
podcasts news thing is called.
04:14
I think it's called
04:14
podcast news daily, that
04:15
is owned by iHeart radio.
04:17
So frankly, if Spotify is
04:17
interested in buying pod
04:19
news, then you know, I would
04:19
be perfectly happy with a
04:23
hundred million dollars and
04:23
I will look after your brands
04:26
just as much as Joe Rogan has.
04:28
I think that's a winner
04:30  Sam
talking about heart
04:30
media, We had a LinkedIn
04:33
announcement from Cal Arman
04:33
that sounder FMR has announced
04:37
a partnership with iHeart media.
04:39
So it looks like they're going
04:39
to be using their platform.
04:42  James
Yes, they have.
04:42
They've announced a partnership.
04:44
It's all around brand
04:44
safety for I hope media is
04:47
advertisers, yes, that's brand
04:47
new announced, today also
04:51
announced today is, the series
04:51
a funding round for, sounder.
04:55
so I, heart has actually,
04:55
invested into sounder and
04:59
put some money in It's 7.7
04:59
million and that's adding
05:02
to the money that they have
05:02
already raised in funding.
05:05
So in total they've raised 11
05:05
and a half million dollars.
05:09
you can always become a
05:09
supporter, sounder of
05:12
the pod news newsletter,
05:12
orientate of this podcast,
05:15  Sam
is this on the
05:15
back of Joe Rogan?
05:17
I was going to ask you James.
05:18
given how unsafe advertisers
05:18
must be feeling about putting
05:22
their name next to his podcast,
05:22
is this the reason why I
05:26
heart's gone down this way?
05:26  James
it could well be,
05:26
the press release is pretty
05:29
clear, that, they talk about,
05:29
ensuring that advertisers
05:33
can confidently invest in
05:33
the iHeart podcast networks,
05:38
expansive and rapidly growing
05:38
lineup of diverse content.
05:41
it could well be, a bit of a
05:41
needle, in terms of, Joe Rogan,
05:45
let's not forget iHeart media
05:45
is number one for podcasts.
05:48
It is the largest, podcast,
05:48
publisher globally, according
05:52
to Podtrac now, Podtrac
05:52
don't measure Spotify.
05:56
of course, so who knows whether
05:56
Spotify is actually larger,
05:59
but, I, heart media is still
05:59
a very large player in this.
06:03  Sam
Now moving on Spotify,
06:03
our sniffing around, it seems
06:06
that big pot of three, billions
06:06
got a little bit more in it.
06:10
Amazon and Spotify this
06:10
week have both said to be
06:12
considering to buy audio.
06:14
Boom.
06:15
First of all, James,
06:15
who or what is audio?
06:17
Boom.
06:17
Explain that.
06:18
And then why might they want.
06:20  James
I once used to work
06:20
for audio boom, when they
06:23
were called audio booth.
06:24
And the original idea was
06:24
that you could just record
06:27
simple, what we would call
06:27
today podcasts, what they
06:29
call then as booze, I'm using
06:29
an app on your mobile phone.
06:33
And it was a pretty clever,
06:33
pretty smart little tool, that
06:36
mark rock, ended up doing.
06:38
but that was a long time ago.
06:39
the company rebranded as audio,
06:39
boom, and has pivoted to become
06:44
a podcast publisher, but also
06:44
a podcast monetize station
06:48
company as well, much like a
06:48
podcast, that sort of thing.
06:51
It's got a market cap of
06:51
about $372 million, which
06:56
is, quite a lot, 116 million
06:56
downloads every month.
07:00
So it's doing.
07:02
Just, the, one of our big
07:02
shows is case file, which is
07:05
the number one podcast in New
07:05
Zealand in Australia right now.
07:08
So it's a pretty big thing and
07:08
yes, Amazon and Spotify both
07:12
apparently sniffing around.
07:14
Although, audio boom's share
07:14
price has gone up an awful lot
07:17
over the last, couple of days
07:17
or so since that announcement
07:20
went out, I wonder whether it's
07:20
been, shared, to help the share
07:23
price go up, who knows, but,
07:23
interesting to see that anyway,
07:27  Sam
you mentioned a cast there
07:27
I've been curious is a cast you
07:31
think on the block to purchase.
07:33
they did their IPO, so they've
07:33
set a high valuation, but
07:36
could they be purchasing.
07:39  James
Oh, anybody can be
07:39
purchased, if somebody has
07:42
the right amount of money
07:42
and obviously outcast is
07:45
now listed on the stock
07:45
market and can be purchased,
07:47
with a hostile takeover.
07:49
but, I'm not sure necessarily.
07:51
it's a very large
07:51
company now is a Carson.
07:53
I'm not sure necessarily
07:53
that's something that
07:55
they will be particularly.
07:57
In doing, they are still
07:57
losing money though.
07:59
they lost, the last
07:59
figures I think came
08:01
out, over the past week.
08:03
and they lost somewhere in the
08:03
region of two and a half, $3
08:06
million, over the last quarter.
08:08
So they're still losing money,
08:08
but they do, see a route
08:11
into profitability relatively
08:11
soon and they seem to be a
08:15
pretty good, company, which
08:15
is continually signing people.
08:18
They just signed, Ash London.
08:20
Who's a big, radio podcast
08:20
star down here, down under.
08:24
And, and it's interesting
08:24
seeing, that they seem
08:27
to be signing new people
08:27
virtually every single week.
08:30
and also spending a lot of time
08:30
and effort in growing their
08:34
employees across the world.
08:35
Tim bat has just been
08:35
announced as a casts
08:38
created network development
08:38
director for New Zealand.
08:42
so he will be essentially
08:42
working with podcasters in
08:45
that particular country.
08:46
I think, there are pretty good
08:46
and pretty clever, company.
08:48  Sam
now.
08:49
moving on swiftly Amazon
08:49
music and wandering have
08:52
signed how I built this with
08:52
guy Raz, a wandering gets
08:55
the exclusive ad sales and
08:55
YouTube distribution rights.
08:59
and NPR keeps the radio
08:59
distribution rights.
09:01
Explain that James, because that
09:01
sounds like a very convoluted
09:05
deal in terms of its structuring
09:05
of who can play what wearables.
09:09  James
I think this is
09:09
actually really interesting.
09:10
NPR has been making and
09:10
broadcasting how I built this
09:14
with guy Raz for a long time.
09:16
It's a business podcast in
09:16
case you've never heard it.
09:20
go and rise looks like
09:20
the typical, intellectual
09:22
American with his sports
09:22
jacket and his clever glasses.
09:25
and it was a very nice
09:25
chat by the way as well.
09:27
but, so NPR is
09:27
essentially keeping the
09:31
bits that it does well.
09:33
So selling underwriting credits.
09:35
So this program is brought to
09:35
you with, such and such, those
09:38
little under writing credits
09:38
that exist on NPR stations
09:42
and on the podcast, those will
09:42
continue, but wondering he gets
09:45
to sell, 32nd ads, in the show
09:45
as well with this particular.
09:50
And also interestingly, some
09:50
rights for YouTube, which,
09:54
I don't fully understand.
09:55
and, Amazon also gets an
09:55
exclusive to the podcast
09:59
for the first week.
09:59
So you get it a week before
09:59
anybody else, if you're
10:02
listening on Amazon music,
10:02
then that's a lovely thing.
10:04
the other thing is that,
10:04
there'll be two shows a week,
10:07
so they are essentially doubling
10:07
the amount of podcasts that
10:10
they can go out and sell,
10:10
which is always an interesting
10:12
side of that as well.
10:13
But it's the first thing
10:13
that NPR have done here.
10:18
I mean, NPR is a weird and
10:18
wonderful organization, that,
10:21
has its brand on lots of things
10:21
that it doesn't properly own.
10:24
and, I'm not quite sure,
10:24
exactly the relationship between
10:28
NPR and how I built this.
10:30
but, interesting to see
10:30
NPR essentially jumping
10:32
in with, Amazon music.
10:34
Wondery Jen Sergeant will be
10:34
at the podcast show in London.
10:39
and, it'll be interesting
10:39
to hear what she ends up
10:42
saying about this in may
10:44  Sam
now Amazon I'm
10:44
wondering seem to be
10:46
expanding their portfolio.
10:48
Smartlist the podcast set
10:48
up by Jason Bateman will it.
10:51
And Sean Hayes and licensed
10:51
to Amazon music and wandering
10:55
in a multimillion dollar deal.
10:56
It's expanding.
10:58
The trio has launched Smartlist
10:58
media and hired Richard Corson,
11:02
who was previously a producer at
11:02
the daily show with Jon Stewart.
11:06
The company will expand its
11:06
audio slate in this team to
11:08
produce a raft of new shows
11:08
as part of his partnership
11:11
with Amazon growing its slate
11:11
of shows and doing it through
11:15
third party acquisitions.
11:16  James
I think that what
11:16
Amazon is currently doing,
11:18
it's nowhere in terms of a
11:18
podcast app it's just nowhere.
11:22
I think what Amazon is really
11:22
doing here is that they're
11:25
buying IP for content that they
11:25
can then go and monetize yes.
11:30
As podcasts, but also as TV
11:30
shows, as, movies and those
11:34
sorts of things through Amazon
11:34
prime and to resell those
11:39
to broadcasters as well.
11:40
whatever top gear became the
11:40
grand tour, is available on
11:44
Amazon prime, but you can now
11:44
watch that on the TV as well.
11:48
I think channel seven
11:48
bought it here in Australia.
11:50
so I think that there's
11:50
a lot of that sort of IP
11:53
stuff going on and, it's
11:53
a tried and tested way of
11:58
monetizing podcasts these days.
12:01
I don't think that Amazon are
12:01
particularly alone but, you
12:03
can certainly see that this
12:03
deal with a Smartlist media,
12:06
it's essentially just more
12:06
ways of, taking interesting
12:09
ideas and, using the might of
12:09
Amazon and of Wondery who a
12:13
very clever company in terms
12:13
of doing all of this, to,
12:16
see if they can get the best
12:16
value out of the podcasts
12:19
that they actually have that.
12:20
And to talking about, IP
12:20
and about, different podcast
12:24
networks, I ended up having
12:24
a conversation with somebody
12:28
who, Amazon may well be
12:28
interested in them as well.
12:30
There are a company
12:30
called crowd network.
12:32
They're based in Manchester.
12:33
I had a chat with their
12:33
CEO, Mike Carr crowd
12:37  Mike
network.
12:38
was established in
12:38
September, 2020.
12:41
it is a.
12:42
UK based podcast
12:42
network that creates and
12:47
owns its own content.
12:49
So it's very IP driven, either
12:49
a hundred percent of the IP,
12:52
or we have partnerships with
12:52
personalities or potential sort
12:57
of investigative journalists,
12:57
that sort of thing, where
12:59
we create content together.
13:00
so we're very much around
13:00
not making content for other
13:04
people, which is obviously
13:04
common in the UK market.
13:07
we set our stall out in 2022.
13:09
Create our own content,
13:09
timeless content, evergreen
13:13
content that we can monetize
13:13
ourselves and build capital
13:16
value in the company.
13:17
and we have two content
13:17
divisions, crowd people,
13:20
which is personality based
13:20
podcasts and crowd stories,
13:23
which is documentary and
13:23
narrative based podcast.
13:25  James
I was going to ask
13:25
is a real mix of shows
13:27
on your podcast network.
13:28
And I was going to ask
13:28
what the strategy was.
13:30
and that sounds like quite
13:30
a bright one having two
13:33
separate strands there.
13:34
absolutely.
13:35  Mike
the four founding members,
13:35
including myself, came from
13:37
the BBC where we created
13:37
that Peter crouch podcast.
13:40
so we knew that was our
13:40
sort of sweet spot of how
13:42
we could really launch those
13:42
sorts of titles and create
13:45
that community around them.
13:47
so that we knew
13:47
we could do that.
13:49
And we started off doing that
13:49
quite quickly and effectively.
13:52
but we also.
13:53
realize that, the IP
13:53
value may be in people.
13:55
Podcast, personnel podcast
13:55
is not as great as they are
13:58
in this sort of documentary
13:58
narrative style podcasts.
14:00
And we were very keen.
14:02
To really let our
14:02
creative juices going
14:04
in that area as well.
14:05
and build that value in the
14:05
company and build that IP and
14:08
build those evergreen titles
14:08
that continually get discovered.
14:11
And I think a lot of companies
14:11
want to do that and they perhaps
14:16
make branded podcasts on the
14:16
side or they make content
14:20
for the people they'd bring
14:20
in revenue from commissions.
14:22
We using our.
14:24
Podcasts to bring in
14:24
that revenue to allow us
14:27
to make those narrative
14:27
podcasts as well.
14:29
But they're also growing
14:29
significantly and how we work
14:32
with personalities is based
14:32
around building a brand, not
14:35
just a podcast for all that
14:35
different ancillary revenue.
14:38
And we've done that
14:38
effectively with the two
14:39
or three of our titles.
14:41
So initially it was
14:41
about, we just want to
14:43
make some great stuff.
14:44
so we had an opportunity to
14:44
work with, film director,
14:46
Michael Epstein in America for
14:46
murder and house two, which
14:48
was one of our first titles,
14:48
which was really successful.
14:51
But we also had linked up
14:51
with Joe Marlin and Thomas
14:54
rugby player, Joe Marlett,
14:54
cyclists go, and Thomas.
14:56
And so it evolved like that.
14:58
and through murdering house
14:58
two, we got more opportunities
15:00
to make, in partnership, these
15:00
narrative titles, whilst the
15:03
personality side of things
15:03
was also taken off as well.
15:06
So it was a business decision
15:06
not to say make sport titles,
15:09
which is all our backgrounds.
15:10
and evolved that
15:10
way to where we.
15:13
Making these sort of two strands
15:13
of content when that diversity
15:17
is really important because the
15:17
income, the revenue that we're
15:20
getting from the personality
15:20
side comes in a lot quicker
15:23
and bigger, whereas the sort
15:23
of narrative podcasts, the
15:27
revenue takes a while to
15:27
come through, shall we say?
15:29
And it comes through slowly.
15:30  James
and is that just
15:30
because of the way that it's
15:33
ad funded, so it's just the
15:33
amount of downloads for the
15:36
personality stuff is faster.
15:39  Mike
It's, not necessarily,
15:39
but it's sponsored friendly.
15:42
So if you go, sponsors want
15:42
to work with well-known
15:47
personalities and they want
15:47
them to endorse their brands.
15:50
Sponsors don't necessarily want
15:50
to be associated with a massacre
15:54
in Iraq, The UK market is
15:54
probably skewed so much by that.
15:58
So there are so many
15:58
personality podcasts because
16:01
that's what sponsors want.
16:03  James
Do you think that's
16:03
the Joe Rogan effect in
16:05  Mike
terms of that high
16:05
profile personality?
16:07  James
In terms of a high
16:07
profile personality, and you
16:09
want them to promote your
16:09
particular thing and maybe
16:12
they see, being involved in a
16:12
documentary in an investigative
16:17
documentary as being rather
16:17
that's built into the
16:20  Mike
coast a hundred percent.
16:21
And also, you've got the
16:21
likes of eight cast, audio
16:23
being docs who will sell
16:23
the low-hanging fruit.
16:26
So they're not necessarily
16:26
going to go out and try
16:28
and sell a house too, or an
16:28
American vigilante, which
16:31
is about this guy going
16:31
around and rescuing kidnapped
16:33
children and stuff like that.
16:34
they're going to take the
16:34
low hanging fruit and it
16:36
makes their job easier.
16:37
So it would be nice if brands
16:37
could be educated more.
16:41
Around, those sort of bigger
16:41
brands, your cars, even luxury
16:45
cars, that sort of thing
16:45
that could be affiliated
16:47
like the on TV with sky crime
16:47
and things like that, that
16:49
we can potentially bring
16:49
that to the pipe, but that's
16:52
not what the monetization
16:52
platforms are set up to do.
16:55
So you could be
16:55
left with the BBC.
16:58
The only people that are making
16:58
these high-end documentaries
17:00
because they don't have
17:00
the commercial pressures
17:03
that everybody else has.
17:04
And we kind of wanted
17:04
to change that.
17:05
And there are companies coming
17:05
on board that are trying to
17:07
change that, but it is really
17:07
a long play and it requires
17:09
investment as well, but we're
17:09
scaling up on that more.
17:13
We're trying to create umbrella
17:13
titles, series that can inherit
17:17
audiences rather than standalone
17:17
tampon podcasts, that, do
17:21
well, but then disappear
17:21
and might have tick over.
17:24
You might get some programmatic
17:24
stuff in, so we're looking
17:27
at that sort of umbrella
17:27
model now, which a couple
17:29
of companies are doing.
17:30
In fact, a lot of companies
17:30
are doing effectively about
17:32
how we can then keep inheriting
17:32
the audience and grow that.
17:35  James
I found it interesting
17:35
to notice in the Edison
17:38
research, top podcasts of
17:38
2021, that cereals they're
17:42
at number nine, I've just
17:42
listened to the entire, new
17:45
cereal show, which of course
17:45
is, based in Birmingham, just,
17:48
an hour or so away from you.
17:50
and really interesting hearing
17:50
here in Australia hearing
17:54
what the ads were in there.
17:55
and frankly hearing how
17:55
many had been sold and how
17:58
many hadn't, and I found
17:58
that really interesting.
18:02  Mike
I think I might
18:02
have one, maybe none.
18:04
I can't remember, it does take
18:04
time and it takes investment.
18:06
And often it is the big media
18:06
companies, like the New York
18:09
times that can make those.
18:11
but we are wanting to change
18:11
that and we are wanting
18:14
to build a significant,
18:14
catalog of these sort of
18:18
high-end narrative shows.
18:19
And we just launched one
18:19
this week called the secret
18:21
history of flight 1, 4, 9
18:21
about the human shields in
18:24
Iraq, which we've done in
18:24
partnership with investigative
18:26
journey, Steven Davis.
18:27
And I'm really proud of it.
18:28
And it's got incredible
18:28
access, this incredible
18:30
storytelling and it's, talks
18:30
about an amazing cover-up
18:35
in the British government.
18:36
And it's something that's
18:36
actually coming out as we
18:38
speak all the different,
18:38
stories behind it are being
18:40
released by the government.
18:41
So it's topical as
18:41
well as historical.
18:44
And this Steven Davis is
18:44
an incredible investigative
18:46
journalist and we're working on
18:46
two other projects with him now.
18:49
that takes investment, but
18:49
there's also the potential for,
18:53
as we've heard so much over the
18:53
last six months about potential
18:57
IP content, TV, film, books,
18:57
rights, that sort of thing.
19:01
Now that would
19:01
obviously be great.
19:03
And for American vigilante, one
19:03
of our titles, we are having
19:06
talks around that in terms
19:06
of turning into TV series.
19:09
but are we going to commission
19:09
just because it could be
19:14
a TV or film, that's some
19:14
companies live or die by that.
19:17
So you then have to find
19:17
that time to develop those
19:20
titles and find those
19:20
titles and invest time in
19:23
them, which we are doing.
19:24
But it takes time.
19:25  James
Yeah, I was
19:25
going to ask how your
19:27
commissioning process works.
19:28
cause you've got a lot of
19:28
people on your staff list
19:32
on your website, like a load
19:32
of people and they're great
19:36
people as well, lots of ex
19:36
BBC people, in that list,
19:39
do you take external ideas or
19:39
the people that you have with
19:45
you I'm sure have no end of
19:45
great ideas for themselves.
19:48  Mike
It's a bit of both.
19:50
A load of people 12, I
19:50
think might be on there,
19:52
we started off with four.
19:53
So we have troubled, I had
19:53
count, and we are going
19:56
to be expanding further.
19:58
it's evolving as we
19:58
started so very much.
20:02
Personality podcasts.
20:04
We generally have a lot of
20:04
contacts in that area and we
20:07
would potentially go to them
20:07
and talk about formats and
20:11
how we can grow their sort
20:11
of brand, that sort of thing.
20:14
In terms of the story titles,
20:14
again, a massive mixture.
20:19
So the.com strand that we've
20:19
launched recently about
20:22
Wikipedia, and then the
20:22
second series about Reddit.
20:24
It was very much, commissioned
20:24
in house, made in house.
20:27
And we own a hundred
20:27
percent of that IP.
20:29
And we're looking at
20:29
developing more of those
20:31
titles, but something like a
20:31
secret history was a flight.
20:35
1, 4 9 was made because of
20:35
a sort of partnership we
20:39
had with banio books and
20:39
an unofficial partnership,
20:42
just looking at how we can
20:42
maybe use some of their books
20:45
to create amazing podcasts.
20:46
So that was another sort of
20:46
partnership that we created.
20:48
And we've obviously going
20:48
to develop two or three more
20:50
titles with Steven murderer
20:50
in house too, but there's a
20:53
gain just to a conversation
20:53
and somebody we know.
20:56
This guy been working on
20:56
this project 15 years,
20:58
he wanted out there.
20:59
So we created that with
20:59
him, so there's so many
21:02
different ways of doing it.
21:03
I think in the longer
21:03
term, the more that we can
21:07
commission ourselves, create
21:07
ourselves and own those titles
21:10
ourselves, the better for us.
21:13
But then you have to build
21:13
this development team to really
21:16
drill down on those ideas
21:16
because everybody is looking
21:18
for those sort of amazing
21:18
stories that live out there.
21:21
TV, film, podcast is everything.
21:23
So you've got to offer something
21:23
special to get through.
21:26
So we're, open-minded
21:26
with partnerships.
21:28
We're very open-minded.
21:29
We just want to work
21:29
with people that we like
21:31
and share our values
21:32  James
and the UK,
21:32
audio market is a really
21:34
interesting market because
21:34
you have the BBC, and your.
21:37
The BBC, they have a remit
21:37
to spend a certain amount.
21:42
I think it's 25%.
21:44
The last time I looked, of
21:44
their production budget with
21:47
independent audio producers,
21:47
which essentially means that
21:50
the UK has a tremendously rich
21:50
audio production industry.
21:55
Hasn't
21:55  Mike
it?
21:55
It certainly does.
21:57
but it is also very reliant
21:57
on the BBC and you can
22:01
make a decent living, just
22:01
making content for the BBC.
22:04
I didn't really want to
22:04
leave the BBC and make
22:08
content for the BPC.
22:09
I might as well
22:09
just stayed there.
22:10
but
22:10
I'm not sure if that actual
22:10
podcast strategy, in terms of
22:13
what shows they create, they
22:13
can create amazing shows,
22:16
cause lack of commercial
22:16
pressures, but they also do
22:18
a lot of personality shows.
22:20
And when I was the BBC
22:20
sounds and the podcast
22:23
strategy was very much around
22:23
attracting younger audiences.
22:26
And then we brought in the
22:26
peer crowds podcast, which
22:28
blew everything out of the
22:28
war, which is fantastic.
22:30
So I think we talk about the
22:30
UK market being behind the
22:34
U S market is just different
22:34
because of the scale of the BBC
22:39
and the amount of production
22:39
companies that have grown up
22:43
just making content for the BBC
22:43
and the BBC quite like Saturday,
22:46
they're the commissioners.
22:48
And then we're all
22:48
scrubbing around trying
22:50
to make content for them.
22:50
And when those commissions,
22:50
we didn't really want to part
22:53
of that industry, I think for
22:53
those companies, now it's better
22:56
because you have options like
22:56
audible who pay a lot of money
22:59
for a title and the BBC might
22:59
end up missing out on a few.
23:01
So I think that's important, but
23:01
we didn't want to get into that,
23:06
production house mentality.
23:08
Where we were relying on
23:08
commissions all the time.
23:10
We wanted to, create
23:10
these podcasts that we
23:12
own or own part of Cause
23:15  James
that's the
23:15
difference, isn't it?
23:16
That the BBC, when you make
23:16
something for the BBC, you are
23:20
giving the IP to them and you
23:20
can't really do anything with
23:23
that IP, once you've actually
23:23
made that particular show.
23:26
And I think that's the
23:26
real difference there
23:28
worthwhile pointing out.
23:30
Cause we've got, audiences
23:30
around the world.
23:31
I think I worked out that NPR
23:31
has a market share of about
23:35
12% in the U S and the BBC.
23:39
I haven't seen the latest
23:39
figures, but it's around
23:42
50 to 53% market share in
23:42
terms of radio consumption.
23:46
Certainly.
23:47
So there's a real difference
23:47
there in terms of just the
23:49
size of that organization
23:49
and therefore what it
23:53
does to everybody else,
23:53
which is, quite a change.
23:56  Mike
BBC sounds.
23:57
obviously you've been
23:57
covering the recent decision
24:00
to make certain of the big
24:00
titles, exclusive to BBC
24:04
sounds, which I don't think
24:04
helps the general market.
24:07
it certainly doesn't give
24:07
the license fee payer more
24:10
value as they suggested.
24:11
but I understand why they're
24:11
doing it because it's a numbers
24:14
game and given all the recent,
24:14
talk about the license fee,
24:18
et cetera, each part of the
24:18
BBC has to justify their
24:21
existence to, senior management,
24:21
the government, et cetera.
24:25
And it's all about perception
24:25
and future-proofing themselves
24:30
from, getting taken out.
24:31
so I understand why they've
24:31
done it, but I don't think they
24:34
need to start going on about
24:34
how they're protecting the
24:36
whole industry and giving value
24:36
for the license fee pilot.
24:40
It's not about that.
24:40
It's a numbers game and I get
24:40
it cause I was out at the star.
24:44  James
So you've launched
24:44
a brand new podcast, last
24:47
week called a secret history
24:47
of colon flights, 1, 4
24:51
9, which you've already
24:51
talked about a little bit.
24:53
I'm imagining that the
24:53
colon in there is, to give
24:56
you access to more secret
24:56
histories in the future.
25:00
Is that the thoughts that
25:02  Mike
very perceptive of EGMS?
25:03
very much so we, we started
25:03
working on it as an individual
25:06
project with, this investigative
25:06
journalist Steven Davis.
25:08
He's based in New Zealand and
25:08
he's been working on this,
25:11
story it was early 1990s.
25:13
Wasn't it?
25:14
When the first Iraq war happened
25:14
and the whole human shield
25:17
and this British airways jet
25:17
landing in Kuwait, just as
25:21
the, Iraqi troops crossed the
25:21
border, which wasn't ideal.
25:23
and everything that
25:23
happened after that.
25:24
But there's a coverup
25:24
involve the British
25:26
government and Steven, it's
25:26
basically through his hard
25:30
work has uncovered that.
25:31
it's incredible.
25:32
And he has a couple of other
25:32
projects that we're looking
25:36
at with him, to develop
25:36
because we found him an
25:38
absolute joy to work with.
25:40
he's a writer, but now he's
25:40
discovered the podcast space.
25:43
He's.
25:43
this is it.
25:43
This is what I want to do.
25:44
I've given it.
25:45
I'm not going to
25:45
be writing anymore.
25:46
This is what I want to do.
25:47
which is fantastic.
25:48
And, he's worked with one
25:48
of our producers, who's
25:51
just done an incredible
25:51
job and it's about that.
25:55
As I taught before that
25:55
creation of umbrella brands
25:57
that can retain audience, so
25:57
secret history, 5, 1 49 goes
26:01
to secret history, two secret
26:01
history three, and then you
26:04
create the snowball effect and
26:04
you're building these long-term
26:07
sort of story brands that
26:07
you can actually look out and
26:10
pop something in there that
26:10
you think that's the right
26:12
thing for that we wouldn't
26:12
necessarily just force it.
26:15
But that's very much
26:15
the strategy now.
26:17
I think you'll see less a
26:17
partners that just go out
26:19
there and, you never see again,
26:19
although we are launching one
26:22
in March saying that about the
26:22
anthrax attacks in 2001 after
26:26
nine 11, the anthrax attacks
26:26
in America, which is brilliant.
26:30
And we just wanted
26:30
to tell that story.
26:31
so we partnered with a couple of
26:31
journalists over in America and
26:34
that's being made for the last
26:34
year really, but we're looking,
26:36
we're very excited about that.
26:38  James
very cool.
26:38
Mike, thank you so
26:38
much for your time.
26:40
If you want to find out
26:40
more of, some of the.
26:44
The crowd network are making
26:44
it's crowd network.co.uk.
26:49
But Mike, thank you
26:49
so much for your time.
26:51
I appreciate it.
26:52
So my car from the crowd
26:52
network in the UK, I thought
26:57
it was really interesting.
26:58
He was talking a lot about, the
26:58
strategy that they have around
27:02
different strands, different,
27:02
podcast, themes, if you like,
27:06
to basically, make sure that
27:06
the podcasts that they were
27:09
making, weren't just one hit
27:09
wonders that they were actually
27:13
part of a series and part of
27:13
an evergreen, set of content
27:17
that they're actually making.
27:18
so I thought it was
27:18
a very clever way of
27:20
putting a podcast network.
27:21
Yeah, build a
27:22  Sam
portfolio and resell
27:22
content later down the road.
27:25
Now, Facebook appears
27:25
to have rolled out audio
27:28
rooms across the world.
27:29
all rooms are also recorded
27:29
and post your profile unless
27:33
you don't want that and work
27:33
on iOS, Android, and the web.
27:37
but we still don't get podcasts
27:37
internationally, James.
27:41  James
No, we don't.
27:42
So I'm not quite sure
27:42
what Facebook is doing
27:43
in terms of podcasting.
27:44
They seem to have forgotten
27:44
about it, but it's nice
27:46
to see that they've rolled
27:46
out these audio rooms.
27:48
They seem to work very well.
27:49
And it's very nice to
27:49
actually see something
27:51
working on iOS, Android,
27:51
and the web from the get-go.
27:54
that's rather a good thing.
27:56
I don't think that they
27:56
are a standalone app.
27:58
I was saying this on this very
27:58
podcast quite some time ago.
28:02
I think that they fit where
28:02
you have already social,
28:05
connections with other people.
28:07
and so that's why it works
28:07
particularly well with
28:08
Twitter, and, could work
28:08
particularly well with Facebook.
28:12
Although Facebook has so
28:12
many things, it's quite
28:14
difficult to find them all.
28:15
but, I thought it was
28:15
quite a nice, smooth.
28:18  Sam
Give them their
28:18
share results last week.
28:20
Is there anyone
28:20
left on Facebook?
28:22
I wonder.
28:22  James
Oh, there's plenty.
28:23
There's plenty.
28:24
did you see the story about
28:24
mark Zuckerberg, who is telling
28:28
people they want employees to
28:28
be called Mehta mates really?
28:32
Cause you know what?
28:33
Mehta mates aren't they
28:33
aren't better mates.
28:35
And apparently, the strangely
28:35
robotic mark Zuckerberg told
28:40
everybody from now on, you're
28:40
going to be called Metta mates.
28:44
so they role delighted dreadful.
28:46  Sam
Let's get back to some
28:46
tech, popping, which, is a way
28:49
of notifying your podcast is.
28:52
published really
28:52
fast on the hive.
28:55
Blockchain, has now more
28:55
than a quarter of million
28:57
podcasts, notifying podcast
28:57
apps about new episodes.
29:01
The system offers near instant
29:01
notification of new episodes
29:04
and removes the need for podcast
29:04
directories to continuously pull
29:08
your RSS feed like apple does.
29:10
Now, the reason I mentioned
29:10
it, because last Friday
29:13
was a big milestone.
29:15
The first pod ping
29:15
live notification.
29:18
It's live, it's a system to
29:18
tell your podcast app that
29:21
your favorite podcast is
29:21
currently streaming live.
29:24
So what'd you think of that one,
29:26  James
James?
29:26
it's really nice to see that
29:26
it's a part of the podcasting
29:30
2.0 part of the, enhanced,
29:30
features that a podcast 2.0
29:34
is making, so really good to
29:34
see that, the, pod ping live
29:37
notification was of course
29:37
for the podcasting 2.0 podcast
29:41
itself with Dave Jones and
29:41
with, Adam Curry and, really
29:46
good to end up seeing that.
29:47
and I think also really good
29:47
to know that there are a
29:50
quarter of a million podcasts
29:50
now out there, which are
29:53
basically, notifying people.
29:55
Oh, we've just published a new
29:55
episode, so you don't have to
29:59
continuously pull them anymore.
30:00
that's must be good
30:00
for the environment.
30:02
It must be good for
30:02
all kinds of things.
30:04
and, I think in the tests
30:04
that they've done, I think
30:07
it takes 20 seconds or so
30:07
for the notification to
30:10
get all the way through the
30:10
system, which is pretty good.
30:13
great to see that.
30:14  Sam
I use with my
30:14
radio station to podcasts
30:19
and that means that I
30:19
would have to get worse.
30:24
To support pod ping and then
30:24
support pod pig live, in
30:30
order to take any advantage
30:30
of this, because I can't see,
30:33
unless you'd know, another
30:33
way of me being able to tell
30:36
people that my radio show is
30:36
live, other than, the way that
30:40
we do now is we have people
30:40
who follow certain, Threads.
30:43
And then we send out to them
30:45  James
so pod paying
30:45
itself, isn't actually
30:47
a namespace extension.
30:49
it's a bit different
30:49
and you basically send a
30:53
message to a web server.
30:55
The web server is
30:55
called pod ping.cloud.
30:58
I think when you send a
30:58
message to that, basically
31:00
say, have a look at my podcast.
31:02
It's just updated or indeed
31:02
have a look at my podcast.
31:06
It's just gone live.
31:07
So you could actually do that.
31:09
You could build the tech
31:09
yourself, to do that.
31:11
And you wouldn't
31:11
necessarily need Washco
31:13
to support, any of that.
31:14
and indeed, Buzzsprout supports
31:14
pod ping, our excellent sponsors
31:18
as to other people as well.
31:20
I'm not sure that any
31:20
hosts support pod Pang
31:23
life, because actually
31:23
podcast hosts aren't really
31:26
involved in live podcasting.
31:28
That's a different thing that
31:28
you end up using, whether
31:30
that's a YouTube live or
31:30
you end up using, Facebook
31:33
live or other things.
31:35
I think this is something
31:35
that is probably going to be
31:38
quite, techie for people to
31:38
end up doing and is unlikely
31:42
to be something that a podcast
31:42
hosts themselves supports.
31:46
as I say, I think it's good
31:46
to see, these sorts of tools
31:48
rolling out, because anything
31:48
that turns podcasting from
31:52
being something which, Isn't
31:52
interactive to something that
31:55
is interactive, is probably
31:55
good news for the media
31:59
because it keeps people,
31:59
interested in making content
32:02
and in consuming it as well.
32:03  Sam
now I was listening
32:03
to the podcast index
32:06
show with Dave and Adam.
32:07
They did have, Kevin and Tom on
32:07
from the bus route and they were
32:12
talking about the fact that has
32:12
cast, which is their podcast,
32:15
is now enabled for value for
32:15
value, which is great news.
32:18  James
Yeah, indeed.
32:19
So if you are a fan of that
32:19
show, then download the fountain
32:22
app and you can start sending
32:22
them, bits of, cryptocurrency
32:27
bits of value for what it
32:27
is that they end up doing.
32:30
And they've joined this
32:30
show and also joined the new
32:34
media show, three quite large
32:34
podcasts for the industry,
32:38
now using value for value.
32:40
it will be, fun to,
32:40
see how successful that
32:43
is, at the end of it.
32:44
But, if you're not
32:44
already using it, then
32:46
downloads a new podcast.
32:48
App fountain is a good one
32:48
because everything is made
32:50
really easy and simple in there,
32:50
but there are others available
32:53
to, which you'll find it.
32:54
New podcast apps dot.
32:57  Sam
Now apple in response to
32:57
Spotify buying up the industry
33:02
has decided to come out with
33:02
some new features It seems that
33:07
in iOS 15.4, which currently
33:07
embitter, according to some
33:11
of the beta testers, you can
33:11
filter episodes based on played
33:15
unplayed downloaded or saved.
33:18
You can also now browse by
33:18
season and as with any features,
33:22
we have to say they're in beta.
33:23
So they might disappear
33:23
before release.
33:25
Is that the most exciting
33:25
the applicant do James?
33:29  James
So apple podcasts is
33:29
adding functionality that,
33:32
PocketCasts already has.
33:34
Great, well done.
33:35
Apple that's another triumph.
33:37
they are adding
33:37
additional things as well.
33:40
So I am told, but, nobody
33:40
has spotted those yet.
33:44
interesting to see, I think
33:44
what we can take away from
33:46
that is that apple is working
33:46
on their app, which is good.
33:51
Apple is, wanting to improve it.
33:54
And being able, just to
33:54
browse by season is actually
33:57
going to be a bit of a
33:57
game changer for fiction
34:00
podcasting and stuff like that.
34:02
So I think that's
34:02
a pretty good news.
34:04
They've also published a
34:04
guide on how to use chapters.
34:07
they support embedded
34:07
chapters so they don't
34:09
support the podcasting 2.0
34:09
Jason chapters, but they do
34:12
support the embedded chapters
34:12
in MP4 MP3 and AAC files.
34:17
and, apple are saying that
34:17
they want more podcasters
34:22
to support chapters and
34:22
chapter specific artwork.
34:25
So if you're doing chapters
34:25
and chapters specific artwork,
34:28
then yay, apple loves you,
34:28
for doing that sort of thing.
34:31
and we do by the way on
34:31
this very podcast as well.
34:34
So again, Great to see, apple
34:34
investing time in helping
34:39
podcasters understand how to
34:39
use some of these new tools.
34:43
They've also added something
34:43
today, around, helping people,
34:46
understand how to talk to
34:46
apple, to promote your podcast.
34:51
So they've put a whole guide
34:51
together for a promotion, with
34:56
tips, to how to be promoted
34:56
by the platform, timing,
35:00
advice, artwork, advice,
35:00
more stuff like that as well.
35:03
apple is doing, quite a lot
35:03
of work out there, which is
35:06
really good to end up seeing.
35:07  Sam
again, just listen to
35:07
the podcast index on Friday
35:11
and it may be think has the
35:11
podcast index namespace reached
35:16
feature parity with apple?
35:18
I know we, we have a go at
35:18
apple, quite a bit, they've
35:21
got their proprietary
35:21
ways of doing things.
35:22
So they have had support
35:22
for a celebrity person tag.
35:27
For some time.
35:28
I, they manually put the
35:28
picture of celebrities in, all
35:31
we at parity cause we've, in
35:31
the podcast index namespace
35:34
now got person chapters, but
35:37
Do we have anything
35:37
that supports channels?
35:39
subscriptions, because we keep
35:39
saying, we're getting towards
35:43
apple, but are we there now?
35:45
Are we at parity or beyond.
35:47  James
I'm not sure we are
35:47
at parity and I'm not sure
35:49
necessarily that we need to be.
35:50
I think, I can't see, support
35:50
for the iTunes namespace
35:54
going away anytime soon.
35:56
And so therefore, if it's not
35:56
going to go away anytime soon,
36:00
we don't need to reinvent that.
36:01
there are ways that we can look
36:01
at particular tags that apple
36:06
produces to make sure that
36:06
they are more useful for the
36:10
whole industry, not just apple.
36:12
but I think in terms of,
36:12
getting parity, getting rid, for
36:16
example, if the iTunes author
36:16
tag and replacing that with,
36:19
the podcast person tag, I'm not
36:19
sure that's really required.
36:23
The one thing you know, that we
36:23
could probably do a little bit
36:26
of help, in is the block tag.
36:28
Cause the block tag at the
36:28
moment, if you put a block
36:32
tag in your, RSS feed, then
36:32
that will remove your podcast.
36:36
Uh, apple, automatically,
36:36
but it will also remove
36:39
your podcast from quite
36:39
a lot of other places.
36:41
It removes it from pocket
36:41
casts automatically and
36:44
removes it from Google
36:44
podcasts automatically.
36:46
Google has just retired,
36:46
their Google play
36:49
namespace themselves.
36:51
so I choose block, seemingly
36:51
removes your listing
36:55
from most directors, not
36:55
from the podcast index.
36:58
I don't think.
36:58
it would be better.
37:00
I think if we were able to
37:00
produce a more flexible block
37:04
tag and that block tag might
37:04
say, I only want this podcast
37:08
on apple and Spotify, and I
37:08
don't want it on anywhere else
37:12
because maybe I don't like
37:12
what Marco does or overcast
37:15
or et cetera, et cetera.
37:16
So I want to specifically
37:16
block those particular apps.
37:19
and I think that's certainly
37:19
something that we should
37:21
perhaps be having a look into.
37:23  Sam
Dave, on the podcast
37:23
said they may start to look
37:26
at using the block tag or
37:26
a new block tag as phase
37:30
five of the podcast index
37:31  James
namespace.
37:32
And in fact, there's a really
37:32
good conversation going
37:34
on around that, in the get
37:34
hub, at the moment, which,
37:37
I am in, I think it's just
37:37
keeping that simple and
37:39
keeping that straightforward.
37:41
And, yes, some of the podcasts
37:41
director is, may not support
37:46
it when that's launched.
37:47
But I think if a creator is
37:47
making it very obvious that they
37:52
do not want to be listed in a
37:52
certain, podcast directory, then
37:55
I think that will be a good idea
37:55
to, add the support for that.
37:59
so I think that there's a
37:59
good amount of support there.
38:02  Sam
The block tag, but
38:02
I've been useful this week
38:03
for somebody else, James,
38:03
cause you received a little
38:05
letter from a lawyer.
38:06  James
I received a three
38:06
page letter, from a lawyer
38:10
in Tennessee, that was most
38:10
upset on behalf of his clients
38:13
because his client only wants
38:13
to be an apple podcasts and
38:16
doesn't want to be anywhere
38:16
else, literally nowhere else.
38:19
doesn't want to be an overcast.
38:20
Doesn't want to be in,
38:20
Spotify or in, anywhere else.
38:23
And certainly doesn't want to
38:23
be on the pod news website.
38:26
so they sent me a massive,
38:26
great big, long legal letter,
38:30
of which I've replied.
38:31
And I said, I'm using your
38:31
public RSS feed to do what
38:35
it's designed to do, which
38:35
is to link to your podcast.
38:38
If you don't want your
38:38
podcast to be publicly.
38:42
Then you should take your
38:42
public RSS feed down.
38:46
That's how that works.
38:47
so if they wanted to, they
38:47
could, use the new block
38:51
tag, which I will, of course
38:51
support, as soon as I can, as
38:55
soon as that has been ratified.
38:56
it's not really a
38:56
case of anything else.
38:58
It's just purely a case of
38:58
just a simple, straightforward
39:01
block tag, that would actually
39:01
tell me to stop taking that.
39:04
so I've sent my response back
39:04
to the lawyer basically saying,
39:07
no, this is how to do it.
39:09
And I'm not fiddling
39:09
around with that.
39:11
but I've got until February the
39:11
28th, otherwise they will start
39:15
taking me to court, we will see
39:15
what they come back and say,
39:17  Sam
now a different story.
39:19
Dino, so FOSS, who's the
39:19
founder and CEO of, Paris perse,
39:23  James
a phonics.
39:24
It's easy for you to say.
39:25  Sam
it's early in the morning,
39:25
hick Amman, that's a name.
39:29
he was previously the podcast
39:29
lead for the BBC news, and he
39:32
created some great podcasts.
39:33
Brexit, cast America, the
39:33
newscast, well in his new
39:36
company yesterday, they launched
39:36
the first of their new podcasts.
39:41
This one was called at your
39:41
service, which was with
39:44
an artist that you may
39:44
well know James called.
39:48  James
Oh, yes.
39:48
I'm a big fan of all of her
39:48
work, that by the way was wide,
39:53
your Lipa appeared, slightly in
39:53
Congress, early in the iHeart
39:57
podcast awards, to give away a
39:57
prize because Hey, guess what?
40:01
She had a podcast coming.
40:03
and great to see that, she's got
40:03
all kinds of interviews with,
40:07
some very interesting people,
40:07
including, and Sean, who I have
40:10
heard of and Russell brand, who
40:10
I've heard of as well, coming
40:13
up, on that particular show.
40:14
that was.
40:15  Sam
I didn't mention it
40:15
because of Julie leap and I
40:17
didn't think it would have
40:17
been a great podcast story.
40:21
Had it been just dually
40:21
announced as a podcast?
40:24
What I found more interesting
40:24
and I spoke to, Dino via
40:27
LinkedIn, we were having a
40:27
little chat is that they've
40:29
launched a version of that
40:29
podcast simultaneously in
40:33
French, Spanish, and in
40:33
Latin America, certainly,
40:37
Portuguese for the
40:37
Brazilian audience as well.
40:40
And what he said was they
40:40
looked at using AI voice
40:44
technology to do it, but it
40:44
didn't really deliver the
40:48
quality that they wanted.
40:50
So they've actually got
40:50
voiced over artists to do
40:54
Julie Papa's voice for the
40:54
sections and a male artist.
40:58
If he was say Elton John,
40:58
which will be interesting to
41:00
see you, they get, so what
41:00
they've done it in the style.
41:04
where Julie says the first
41:04
two or three words, and then
41:07
it instantly goes like the
41:07
UN into an overdubbed voice.
41:11
I think it's interesting how
41:11
it they've done it, but they
41:14
have similar Tennessee done it.
41:16
So I thought it
41:16
was worth noting.
41:17  James
Yeah, I think that's
41:17
a very interesting idea.
41:20
Very bright idea, to
41:20
basically take a mega
41:23
star and, to, produce
41:23
some, translated versions.
41:26
I think that's a smart plan.
41:28
So a well done Dino, software's
41:28
a friend of the show.
41:32  Sam
Indeed.
41:33
Now you've been busy, James.
41:35
apart from sanding
41:35
down your decking,
41:37  James
I am not sending
41:37
down the decking.
41:39
I have a man for that.
41:40
he's got a very large
41:40
beard and I wouldn't want
41:42
to have a fight with him.
41:43
you're right.
41:44
I, also launched something
41:44
on what it was supposed
41:47
to launch on Monday, but
41:47
then there was some news.
41:50
So it ended up launching
41:50
on Tuesday called the
41:52
pod news reports card
41:52
for the podcast industry.
41:55
this is quite fun.
41:56
So basically, some of the
41:56
podcasts platforms basically
42:00
asked for this and said, is
42:00
there a way that you can get.
42:05
A bunch of data back from
42:05
your readers, whether
42:08
they're publishers or
42:08
whether they're listeners
42:10
to podcasts of basically
42:10
where we're going well, where
42:14
we're not doing so well in
42:14
terms of our podcast apps.
42:17
and I thought what a
42:17
good idea that sounds.
42:20
And you can, and please
42:20
do, if you're listening
42:23
to this right now, you can
42:23
fill out the report card at
42:27
pod news.net/report card.
42:30
What I plan to do is
42:30
compile the results and give
42:33
comprehensive data to each of
42:33
the podcast platforms so far.
42:37
Only launched this yesterday,
42:37
I've already had more than
42:39
a hundred, votes back,
42:39
which is great to see.
42:42
And some of the comments
42:42
in there are really useful.
42:45
Some of the comments in there
42:45
are basically, moaning on about
42:49
a particular podcast platform
42:49
for doing something that
42:53
actually they don't do anymore.
42:54
But the podcast platform,
42:54
hasn't done a very good job
42:57
of communicating the fact
42:57
that they don't do that thing
43:01
anymore, but they used to do it.
43:03
and it'll really help that
43:03
particular podcast platform
43:07
be able to, understand what
43:07
they should be promoting, what
43:10
they should be talking about.
43:11
So it's a really,
43:11
interesting, piece of work.
43:14
I have a feeling it's going
43:14
to be quite a lot of work to
43:16
take all of the detail and
43:16
compile it into a report,
43:20
but that's what I plan to do.
43:22
so if you are having
43:22
a listen, please do.
43:25
I can take you very long.
43:26
It sh should take a
43:26
couple of minutes, pod
43:28
news.net/report card.
43:30
And I link as well to an
43:30
equivalent that is done
43:34
for, apple as a company,
43:34
which is really interesting
43:37
to go and read anyway.
43:38
And that's the sort of thing
43:38
that I'm trying to do here.
43:40  Sam
congratulations, James,
43:40
we will, hopefully get the
43:42
results very soon as well.
43:45
Now dance knows history hit
43:45
damn was at my podcast festival.
43:50
Gosh, that feels long time ago,
43:50
2019 at the beginning of COVID.
43:54
I long time ago, he seems
43:54
he's claiming to have the most
43:58
subtly podcast ever recorded.
44:00  James
he is not claiming
44:00
that was basically me writing
44:03
that into pod names just
44:03
to make the podcast sound
44:06
a little bit more exciting.
44:07
But yes, He is taking his
44:07
podcast, to Antarctica.
44:11
and he's trying to find
44:11
Ernest Shackleton's lost
44:15
endurance shipwreck.
44:16
I always thought that
44:16
Shackleton was a man that
44:18
made chairs, but no, it turns
44:18
out, that, it's a shipwreck.
44:21
That's a joke that only people
44:21
in Yorkshire will understand.
44:24
I bought this cherry
44:24
Shackleton's, anyway, I've
44:26
not done a very good job
44:26
of explaining that about
44:28
three people listening to
44:28
this will get that anyway.
44:32
Dan's nose started doing
44:32
his podcast, by recording
44:35
it into a mobile phone in
44:35
a travel lodge hotel room.
44:38
and now he's, they're talking,
44:38
into a, probably a mobile phone
44:42
on a ship, in the Antarctic
44:42
ocean, which is pretty cool too.
44:46
He says an audience of millions.
44:48
so that's just pretty cool
44:48
to end up seeing, I wondered
44:51
if it was the most southerly
44:51
podcast ever recorded.
44:54
Now it wasn't,
44:54
there was a podcast.
44:56
If you speak, Norwegian, then
44:56
you will enjoy it because
44:59
it's mostly a Norwegian,
44:59
but trans universe followed.
45:03
Eric Bertrand Lawson on a solo
45:03
trip to the south pole itself.
45:08
And that happened
45:08
only in January.
45:10
you chose a good month to do it.
45:11
and if you speak mostly
45:11
Norwegian, there are a couple
45:14
of episodes in English.
45:15
then you'll find that, in your
45:15
favorite podcast app as well,
45:18  Sam
now talking, producing
45:18
podcasts, if you don't want any
45:21
competition with your podcast,
45:21
how can we produce a podcast,
45:25
James, where we get no company?
45:26  James
Well, not
45:26
much competition.
45:28
Certainly one way of doing
45:28
that is to make a podcast about
45:31
chemistry or about volleyball.
45:33
this is according to data that,
45:33
re phonic worked on, they had
45:38
to look at the apple podcasts
45:38
data, and I should point out
45:40
the apple podcasts data, not
45:40
podcasts in general, just
45:44
the apple podcasts data to
45:44
work out what the low hanging
45:48
fruit was, what, podcasts,
45:48
You should be contemplating
45:53
doing, because not very many
45:53
other people are doing them.
45:56
So don't make podcasts in
45:56
English or Indonesian or
45:59
Swedish, because there are
45:59
loads of those in comparison to
46:02
the amount of speakers, in the
46:02
world instead, think about doing
46:06
podcasts in other languages.
46:08
Obviously I only speak
46:08
English because I'm a
46:09
lazy British person.
46:10
avoid shows about cricket.
46:12
There are an awful lot of those,
46:12
but, chemistry or volleyball,
46:15
the amounts of shows in those
46:15
categories are very low.
46:18
and you'll probably get
46:18
into the charts if you
46:20
want to end up doing that.
46:22
Although let's be fair,
46:22
you'll probably not get
46:25
very many downloads either.
46:26
but it's quite an interesting,
46:26
piece of data which
46:29
we'll link to from the.
46:31
I look
46:32  Sam
forward to James's
46:32
new podcast, Yorkshire
46:35
chairs from Shackleton's
46:37  James
from
46:37
Shackleton's, you know?
46:38
Oh, so comfortable,
46:40  Sam
talking of strange
46:40
little quirky stories.
46:42
I think it was Matt Degan
46:42
was talking about this.
46:45
A podcast has turned into
46:45
its own radio station in
46:48
the UK, hosted by Libsyn.
46:51
It's called the Alfred daily.
46:52
It's a 40 minute daily local
46:52
news show, which is now
46:55
being broadcast on 1 0 7
46:55
0.3 FM across SharpSpring.
47:01  James
Yes, it's a podcast
47:01
which has actually been
47:03
going for quite some time.
47:04
It's doing a thousand
47:04
downloads a day.
47:06
Now a thousand downloads a day
47:06
is quite a lot for any podcast.
47:10
it's more than this podcast
47:10
gets, but, they're doing a
47:13
thousand downloads a day in an
47:13
area that is only 12,000 people.
47:18
so it's got a tremendous
47:18
reach in the area.
47:22
And so now what, Carrie Jones,
47:22
who's the person behind that
47:25
podcast is doing, is he's
47:25
managed to get a community
47:28
radio license and is now
47:28
broadcasting that across
47:31
search Shaftsbury in Dorset.
47:33
you'll be able to hear the
47:33
Alfred daily, about five
47:36
times in a typical day, but
47:36
the radio station also covers
47:40
other, programming as well.
47:42
it doesn't play
47:42
any music at all.
47:44
So it's an entirely speech,
47:44
24 hours a day radio station,
47:47
I say, 24 hours a day.
47:48
If you listen in the
47:48
middle of the night, then
47:49
you'll hear a bird song
47:49
because you know why not?
47:52
but it's a wonderful idea and
47:52
really interesting to see that,
47:55
essentially it was a podcast
47:55
that has been, made for the
47:59
last couple of years, that has
47:59
led into its own radio station.
48:03
So very cool thing.
48:04
worth reading up
48:04
and learning more.
48:07  Sam
Gosh, I'd never
48:07
knew about starting a
48:09
podcast radio station.
48:10
I wonder why,
48:13  James
but it's different.
48:14
You said it's the
48:14
other way round
48:16  Sam
No, no, no.
48:17
James, the idea for us
48:17
was we would do podcasts
48:21
that were one hour long.
48:22
So all of our shows are what
48:22
are long-term river radio.
48:25
Cause they were intentionally
48:25
designed to be podcasts.
48:27
And we said we would
48:27
turn them into a radio
48:31
show because why not?
48:33
We were recording them, might
48:33
as well broadcast the recording.
48:37
And that's how we came about.
48:39  James
and again, similar to
48:39
river radio, which is the we
48:42
that you're talking to there.
48:44
this is all a, hosted
48:44
by, volunteers.
48:47
and they're using, Hindenburg
48:47
editor and, their mobile
48:50
phones to go out and record.
48:51
but it's a really good lesson.
48:53
It's well worth having a listen.
48:54
It's very, professional
48:54
sounding, just not your
48:56
radio station, Sam.
48:57
that's a
48:57  Sam
good thing.
48:58
I wasn't going to say that,
48:58
but congratulations to
49:00
welfare daddy, that we'll
49:00
go and have a listen to it.
49:02
Now, moving on swiftly
49:02
talking of a podcast, as we
49:07
were just now podcasts, I
49:07
listened to more than twice.
49:10
As long as people listen to
49:10
spoken word audio on am and
49:13
FM radio among kids says some
49:13
research recently from Edison
49:19
research translate that James.
49:23  James
Oh, yes, this is
49:23
basically saying, if you
49:25
listen to spoken word audio,
49:25
then you're listening to
49:27
twice as many podcasts than
49:27
you are listening to the
49:30
radio for the same time.
49:31
it was just an interesting stat
49:31
that I saw that I thought was
49:34
worthwhile, mentioning it's
49:34
part of the Edison research,
49:39
smart listener report, which
49:39
came out today and, and that's
49:43
full of, some really useful,
49:43
data, in that so well worth
49:47
having a peak out, you'll find
49:47
that linked from pod news.net.
49:51
There's a tool out there
49:51
which will, help you
49:54
organize notes on audio.
49:56
Perhaps you're listening to
49:56
a pre edit and you want to,
49:59
mention all you need to edit
49:59
the cough out here and blah,
50:02
blah, blah, it's a little tool
50:02
that will enable you to do that.
50:05
That's called re clipped,
50:05
which works on, any old audio.
50:09
Saturday was Africa podcast
50:09
day and, the events celebrated
50:12
across the continent.
50:13
The SAPC wrote a large,
50:13
story about that.
50:17
some interesting stuff coming
50:17
out of Africa, particularly
50:20
South Africa, we'll get some,
50:20
data next week from the infinite
50:24
dial, the infinite dials that
50:24
are already available in the U
50:27
S Canada, the UK and Australia.
50:30
It's a really good piece
50:30
of research and they
50:33
have once before done
50:33
some, data research in.
50:37
south African and
50:37
they're doing it again.
50:39
And it comes out on
50:39
February the 24th.
50:42
And it'll be interesting to
50:42
find out how south African
50:44
podcasts are doing there too.
50:47
Let's move on.
50:48
And, there's a section here that
50:48
says movers and shakers, Sam.
50:51  Sam
it seems like everybody,
50:51
as we said earlier is moving
50:54
to Spotify, but James cater
50:54
the head of studios for
50:58
Spotify, UK, and Ireland looks
50:58
as if he's about to leave
51:01
the company because there's
51:01
a role being advertised
51:04
on Spotify, his website.
51:06  James
Yes, that's
51:06
a very weird thing.
51:07
Isn't it?
51:08
Why would a role be
51:08
advertised on Spotify
51:10
website for somebody's job,
51:10
where they haven't actually
51:13
announced that he's leaving?
51:14
but, yes, it's there, he's
51:14
been with Spotify for more
51:18
than six years and, yes.
51:20
I wonder where he's going.
51:21
to moving on, James oh,
51:21
bogs, everybody's called
51:24
James in podcasts these days.
51:26
he, used to be with
51:26
apple podcasts in July.
51:29
He'd been with apple
51:29
for years and years.
51:31
He's now hiring Ruby
51:31
developers for his new
51:33
company, which is called
51:33
the new river bluff company.
51:36
We've known very little about
51:36
that so far, but, the job
51:40
ad says that they are making
51:40
next generation audio tools,
51:44
next generation audio tools.
51:45
I wonder what they are.
51:47
yes, always interesting to see.
51:48
And Tiffany Ash tea has been
51:48
promoted to us director of
51:52
the, a cast creator network,
51:52
which is also a good start.
51:57  Sam
Now let's go on to
51:57
books and events, podcast
51:59
futures, which we've mentioned
51:59
a couple of times in this
52:02
episode is still, do we
52:02
believe, although we've had
52:05
no confirmation to go ahead on
52:05
February the 22nd in London?
52:09  James
yes.
52:10
if you're in London, then
52:10
see if that's still going
52:12
ahead, it's in Westminster.
52:13
you may well be at that.
52:15
I won't be, but I will be at
52:15
podcast movement evolutions,
52:18
which is in March in LA.
52:21
I'm very much looking forward
52:21
to that and your going to.
52:27
I am
52:27  Sam
a cold wait.
52:28  James
yes.
52:29
we'll be looking forward to
52:29
recording this show with the
52:32
folks at Buzzsprout as well.
52:34
which should be fun.
52:35
I'm not quite sure how
52:35
we're going to do it yet.
52:36
but I'm sure we've got a plan.
52:38
Will it involve
52:38
Riverside's dot FM?
52:41
No, so that'll
52:41
be, a good thing.
52:42
so yes, very much
52:42
looking forward to that.
52:45
And also looking forward to,
52:45
the podcast show, which is
52:49
in may, in, London, England.
52:52
you can go and buy the
52:52
delegate day passes.
52:55
They have literally
52:55
just gone on sale.
52:57
If you use the, promo code
52:57
pod news, you'll get 20% off,
53:01
although frankly, it's 55 quid.
53:03
It's not that much.
53:04
so you should be going anyway.
53:05
all kinds of people are
53:05
including Ross Adams, who's
53:07
CEO of a cast, a Miranda Sawyer
53:07
from the observer and Jen
53:11
Sergeant who's CEO of Wondery.
53:14
so all of that happening in may.
53:16
and, I think in both of these
53:16
events, possibly, but certainly
53:20
in that one, there will be
53:20
some Podland drinks somewhere
53:24
in a bar, in a pub somewhere.
53:25
so that's pretty good.
53:27  Sam
Now there was a book that
53:27
you were promoting on pod news.
53:30
I didn't know much about it,
53:30
but I thought I'd ask you,
53:32
it's called the power of
53:32
podcasting and it's a new book
53:35
about telling stories through
53:36  James
sound.
53:37
it's a really good book.
53:38
It's written by Chavonne
53:38
McHugh, who is Irish,
53:40
but lives in Australia
53:40
I'm quoted on the back.
53:43
in one of those author
53:43
blurbs, saying something
53:45
positive about it, but a
53:45
genuinely positive about it.
53:48
I read the entire thing
53:48
and it's really good.
53:50
you can get it, anywhere in the
53:50
world, although you'll have to
53:52
wait a long time for the book
53:52
to be sent to you, or you can
53:55
just buy it on Kindle, which
53:55
is probably the easiest plan.
53:58
so it's called the power
53:58
of podcasting and to talk
54:01
about things, to read many
54:01
congratulations to Ariel
54:04
Nissen, Blatz earbuds podcast,
54:04
collective they've celebrated,
54:07
five years of putting
54:07
that newsletter together.
54:11
And that show indeed.
54:12
you should subscribe
54:12
to that too.
54:14
You'll find it at earbuds
54:14
podcast, collective.org.
54:18  Sam
James, what else
54:18
has been happening for
54:20
you this week in Poland?
54:21
Oh,
54:22  James
it's been quite busy.
54:23
I'm in the daily Telegraph
54:23
this week talking about
54:25
radio and how it isn't dead.
54:27
So that's nice.
54:28
I was on a Italian radio
54:28
station in London yesterday,
54:32
London, one radio talking
54:32
about the world radio Alliance.
54:35
So that was nice.
54:36
I was also on podcasters live
54:36
for a whole hour, which you'll
54:40
find on pod News's socials,
54:40
particularly on Twitter
54:44
and where you can watch the
54:44
whole thing all over again.
54:46
it was a great, talking
54:46
with Steve on that.
54:50
So that was good fun.
54:51
So I've been doing all
54:51
kinds of things what's been
54:53
happening for you this week.
54:56
Well,
54:57  Sam
I bought a share on
54:57
a tugboat James and it's
54:59
called the crafty tug.
55:03  James
Nice.
55:03
I does just a crafty tug do
55:05  Sam
it sells craft beers and
55:05
ales at outdoor festivals.
55:09  James
I'm more interested now.
55:10
yes, you do realize that there
55:10
is a canal, in his LinkedIn.
55:14
so you could, stick it up there
55:15  Sam
Well, we might do
55:15
that, but it's on its way
55:17
up from little Venice as
55:17
we speak right now or away.
55:21
The little of
55:21  James
is for those who
55:21
don't know is in London,
55:23
very close to Paddington.
55:24
oh, very cool.
55:25
Very cool.
55:26
and I notice it's even
55:26
got a website where you
55:28
can find out more, all
55:28
the W's dot crafty tap.
55:31
Dr co.uk.
55:33  Sam
So it's going to be a
55:33
bit of fun over the summer.
55:35
We've got five festivals.
55:36
That's going to be
55:36
at, music festivals.
55:38
we're going to have river
55:38
radio on the roof broadcasting.
55:41
but
55:42  James
you don't know
55:42
anything about, all, so
55:46
what you learn out of that?
55:48
that should be a very good,
55:48
how exciting there you go.
55:50
The crafty tug
55:52
and that's it for this week,
55:53  Sam
follow Parkland in
55:53
your podcast app and on
55:56
Twitter at Podland news,
55:56
you can also find previous
55:58
shows on the web at www dot
56:01  James
Podland.
56:02
And if you want daily news,
56:02
you should get pod news.
56:04
The newsletter is
56:04
free@podnews.net.
56:06
The podcasts can be found
56:06
in your podcast app as well.
56:09
And all the stories we've
56:09
discussed on pod land
56:11
today, in fact, ah, in the.
56:13
We're using chapters
56:13
and transcripts too.
56:16  Sam
I've used his from
56:16
ignite jingles and we're
56:19
hosted and sponsored by our
56:19
good friends at Buzzsprout.
56:22  James
Keep listening.