The last word in podcasting news. Every Thursday, James Cridland from Podnews in Australia and Sam Sethi, from 'Podcast First' River Radio in the UK, review and analyse some of the week's top podcasting news from around the world. They also interview some of the biggest names making the news. Sponsored by Buzzsprout and SquadCast.
https://podland.news
episode 67: Podland on tour in LA with Alban Brooke at Podcast Movement talking about the Podnews Report Card, The Ambies, the Infinite Dial 2022 and YouTube's no show. [transcript]
Special Guest
- Alban Brooke - Head of Marketing at Buzzsprout
News:
- Kai Chuk from YouTube presented but said nothing about their future plans
- Matt Deegan writes more about podcasters using video in his newsletter
- By the end of the year, it’s going to be essential that podcasters are creating proper video versions of their shows. - Matt Deegan
- It’s also why nearly 20% of podcast listeners regard YouTube as their main podcast app. - Tom Webster
- Tom Webster from Edison Research, warns podcasters to be careful saying “get this wherever you get your podcasts” if they don’t put their show on YouTube
- Adori announced a new YouTube integration to help grow your podcast audience
- Matt Deegan writes more about podcasters using video in his newsletter
- The results of the Podnews Report Card were announced at Podcast Movement Evolution by our Editor, James Cridland. Selections from the 750 comments captured are on the Podnews website
- Edison Research unveiled the Infinite Dial 2022
- The Ambies, the awards from The Podcast Academy that celebrate excellence in podcasting, took place last night. The winners are here: 9/12, from Amazon Music, Pineapple Studios and Wondery was the podcast of the year; the podcast’s host Dan Taberski accepted the award in the award ceremony in Los Angeles CA, USA
- Apple Podcasts will add follower numbers to Apple Podcasts Connect, starting next month. You’ll be able to view followers per show and easily measure followers across shows
- Writing in Variety, Jem Aswad is highly critical of Spotify’s $310m sponsorship of FC Barcelona, which they announced on Tuesday
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Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
00:00 James
Welcome to Ponte lands.
00:01
The last word in
00:01
podcasting news.
00:02
It's Friday the
00:02
25th of March, 2022.
00:06
I'm James crude and the
00:06
editor of pod news.net.
00:09 Sam
And I'm Sam, Seth
00:09
of the MD of river radio.
00:11 Alban
And I'm Melvin,
00:11
Brooke, the head of
00:12
marketing of bus sprout.
00:14 James
This is exciting.
00:15
Isn't it?
00:15
And we're in a podcast
00:15
movement in LA.
00:18
Portland is sponsored
00:18
by Buzzsprout podcast.
00:20
Hosting made easy last week.
00:23
427 million people
00:23
started hosting with
00:27
bus crabs, uh, 3,886.
00:30
You can do it by sprout.com.
00:31
And if you use chapters in
00:31
your podcast app, then a
00:34
Buzzsprout supports those two.
00:35
And so do we.
00:37 Sam
So we found out
00:37
what that number was, the
00:39
booster ground number.
00:40
Didn't
00:41 James
wait, we did outlet.
00:42
do you wanna
00:42 Alban
say, I found out as well,
00:42
Kevin told us on bus casts that
00:45
he was doing all of the boosts.
00:47
How many people you were
00:47
reporting, the bus brought
00:49
was signing up each week.
00:50
So we appreciate that.
00:52
And I guess that means a big
00:52
boost is an order this week.
00:56 James
It would be
00:56
good if that works.
00:58
so yeah, it's been an
00:58
interesting, uh, an interesting
01:00
week here, hasn't it?
01:02 Sam
Yeah.
01:02
the first thing is we've just
01:02
come out of a packed room.
01:05
literally it was floor
01:05
to floor it was YouTube
01:07
making rethought, some
01:09 James
announced.
01:10
Yes.
01:11
We thought that he would be
01:11
making some announcements.
01:13
Didn't we?
01:13
I mean, you weren't,
01:13
very excited out.
01:15
you are there, tweeting
01:15
or, you know, this is so
01:17
exciting, I suppose, is
01:17
the most exciting thing.
01:20 Alban
It's exciting.
01:21
Two ways where we know all the
01:21
great things that YouTube has
01:24
done for podcasting, but once
01:24
Google starts focusing their eye
01:28
on something, you know, there
01:28
can be big changes quickly.
01:31
And the room was
01:31
definitely packed out
01:32
for that announcement.
01:33
And we heard things may be
01:33
announced sometime in this.
01:37 James
Yeah, we did.
01:37
uh, he said, do we think that
01:37
YouTube is the perfect platform?
01:40
He being a from a YouTube?
01:43
Do we think that we are the
01:43
perfect podcast platform?
01:45
No, of course not.
01:46
That's a lot of things that we
01:46
can do, but that being said,
01:49
even today, we think YouTube can
01:49
be tremendously valuable to many
01:53
podcasts as blah, blah, blah.
01:55
Over the next few months,
01:55
you'll hear some announcements
01:57
from us as to how we plan
01:57
to continue supporting
02:00
the podcast ecosystem.
02:01
Now, when he says
02:01
supporting the podcast
02:03
ecosystem, YouTube doesn't.
02:05
Do they,
02:06 Alban
that's where
02:06
you're leading me on this.
02:07
So I know
02:08 James
what I mean.
02:08
You know,
02:09 Sam
YouTube is
02:11 James
YouTube, isn't
02:11
a podcast ecosystem.
02:13
Is it?
02:14
YouTube is its own thing.
02:15
And yes, it's good
02:15
for discovery, but it
02:19
doesn't use RSS feeds.
02:20
It doesn't import from
02:20
great podcast hosts.
02:23
Like Buzzsprout, it doesn't
02:23
do any of that stuff.
02:26
what do you think he means
02:26
by over the next few months?
02:28
We'll hear
02:29 Alban
what we talked about.
02:30
A lot of things we
02:30
talked about discovery.
02:32
We talked about their ability
02:32
to help people monetize
02:36
and building a community
02:36
in the comment section.
02:39
So we talked about was a
02:39
lot of what YouTube does
02:41
great for video can also
02:41
be done for podcasting.
02:44
So we could see something like
02:44
a rebranding of Google podcasts
02:48
and bringing that under YouTube
02:48
podcasts, we could see something
02:51
where YouTube starts turning
02:51
YouTube channels into podcasts.
02:55
there's lots of ways that
02:55
they could go with it.
02:57
And I'm eager to maybe in a
02:57
future podcast movement learn
03:00
what some of this announcement.
03:02 Sam
Paul to me actually
03:02
thinks there won't be anything.
03:05
I think they've
03:05
really comfortable.
03:07
I think when they set it up, it
03:07
was like, we provide comments.
03:10
We provide monetization,
03:10
our algorithms are great.
03:13
We do discoverability and it
03:13
felt to me like, actually, we
03:16
don't need to do anything more.
03:17
You just need to come
03:17
and use our plans.
03:20 James
Yeah, you make
03:20
a great point there.
03:21
we, we've heard so many rumors
03:21
over the last couple of weeks.
03:24
I dunno what rumors you've
03:24
been hearing, uh, Alvin, but
03:26
I've been hearing everything
03:26
from Google podcasts is
03:29
closing and podcasts are
03:29
being moved into YouTube.
03:31
And I mean, who knows maybe
03:31
that might happen in the
03:33
future, but this seems no real
03:33
benefit to them doing that.
03:37
They can monetize video
03:37
content really easily.
03:41
They've got the
03:41
technology to do that.
03:42
Monetizing audio is much harder.
03:45
So I'm not quite sure what
03:45
they would be announcing.
03:49 Alban
we have heard
03:49
announcements of them paying,
03:51
creators to start putting
03:51
content on YouTube and actually
03:54
creating video first podcasts.
03:57
They have an audio element, but
03:57
the video is the primary way for
04:00
people to consume the content.
04:02
So we can see more announcements
04:02
about them working with
04:04
creators, because the thing
04:04
that YouTube will be able to
04:07
provide is the listenership
04:07
and the viewership.
04:10
They have the people
04:10
using the YouTube.
04:12
And we saw Spotify years
04:12
ago, grew the podcast
04:16
ecosystem by introducing
04:16
new people to podcasts.
04:19
YouTube has done that
04:19
time and again, and so we
04:21
could continue to see them
04:21
do that in the future.
04:24 James
this wasn't the only,
04:24
mention of YouTube here.
04:26
there's a headliner here
04:26
who, um, the most popular
04:30
thing now on headliner
04:30
is sharing to YouTube and
04:33
they've done automated stuff.
04:35
They're also Adori labs,
04:35
and answering all kinds
04:37
of YouTube integration.
04:39
with a, quite a clever system
04:39
that basically, adds, moving
04:42
images and that sort of thing
04:42
to your podcast and sticks
04:45
it up there automatically.
04:47
They've worked with podcast one.
04:49
They've worked with iHeart radio
04:49
as well, and a few other people.
04:53
So clearly YouTube is a thing
04:53
and it's good for discovery.
04:58
Um, in terms of people,
04:58
finding new shows, but as
05:02
a podcast app, clearly not.
05:04 Sam
one of the things that
05:04
we love doing with Buzzsprout
05:06
is adding chapters and chapter
05:06
art and James knives spoken
05:10
about in the past that if we
05:10
posted Portland to YouTube, a
05:13
static image is really dull.
05:15
And really what YouTube could
05:15
do is take chapter art and
05:19
chapters and actually present
05:19
it like a small PowerPoint,
05:23
At least that would be a
05:23
little bit more useful.
05:25
I think clever FN takes
05:25
the audio transcription
05:28
looks for hyper.
05:30
And present some show cards.
05:31
So the wrong things, I think
05:31
that you cheap could do
05:34
to make them more visual.
05:36 James
Are there any
05:36
plans that you have
05:37
to, work on your YouTube
05:37
integration with, prosper?
05:41 Alban
That's actually a
05:41
feature set that we have decided
05:44
not to ever really work on.
05:45
I know that it's very
05:45
popular and a lot of other
05:47
podcasts has have it, but
05:47
I think we're solving that
05:50
problem from the wrong side
05:50
everybody's talking about.
05:53
Well, I know some podcasters
05:53
they'd like to be.
05:56
But really the problem is how
05:56
do we get something that is
05:59
primary to YouTube on YouTube?
06:02
So how do we create actual
06:02
visual assets that make it so
06:05
people would want to watch it?
06:07
And we've seen the best podcast
06:07
and some of the ones we saw
06:10
in this presentation that
06:10
are on YouTube, if, because
06:13
they're filming the content and
06:13
they're showing reactions and
06:16
it's fun, it's entertaining.
06:18
And then they take that and
06:18
they turn that into a podcast.
06:21
So a lot of times people are
06:21
pitching ways to get into.
06:25
I think the better way is
06:25
to think about how do we
06:27
take the YouTube content
06:27
and turn it into podcasts.
06:30 James
Yeah.
06:30
it's going to be really
06:30
interesting to watch and a
06:32
fascinating, just to see what
06:32
happens in terms of YouTube and
06:36 Sam
podcast.
06:37
Yeah.
06:37
friend of the show might
06:37
dig and wrote a report about
06:40
podcasts is using video.
06:42
And he said, by the
06:42
end of the year, it's
06:44
going to be essential.
06:45
That podcasts are creating
06:45
proper video versions, which
06:48
is what you just said of shows.
06:51
Uh, went on, say if you're
06:51
making a podcast now be
06:53
ready to produce that video
06:53
version, whether you liked
06:56
the idea of doing it or not.
06:58 James
Yeah, I think,
06:58
YouTube is going to be
07:00
one of those interesting
07:00
things that more podcasts
07:03
has have to think about.
07:04
And whether that means
07:04
that we are making more
07:07
crappy TV rather than break
07:07
podcasts is my concern.
07:10
But, uh, I don't
07:10
know about that.
07:11
You do, you do loads of video,
07:11
don't you for podcast and for.
07:16 Alban
Yeah.
07:16
So we do a lot of our
07:16
tutorials that we know the
07:19
visual component is additive.
07:21
we have experimented at times
07:21
with bus cast being a video
07:24
podcast, and we realized we
07:24
weren't adding anything to it.
07:28
And so you're like, we're just
07:28
showing, some board white guys
07:31
talk to you about podcasting.
07:32
And so we said, you know what?
07:34
This is better as just
07:34
the audio version.
07:36
And we decided to focus on that
07:36
rather than adding a visual
07:39
element that really wasn't
07:39
adding anything to the car.
07:42 Sam
It's why James
07:42
picked me for diversity.
07:44
That's it?
07:45
That's the only
07:45
reason on my hair.
07:46
Anyway, let's move on.
07:48
YouTube said nothing
07:48
really is this.
07:50
They'd be James.
07:50
You said a lot at
07:50
podcast movement.
07:53
you were the keynote speaker.
07:55 James
I was the first
07:55
keynote speaker of many.
07:57
I'm very excited.
07:58
So I was the warm-up
07:58
man for will Ferrell.
08:00
I have stood on the same stage
08:00
as will fair, although not
08:03
unfortunately at the same time.
08:05
Um, uh, so that was fun.
08:07
yeah, so I unveiled
08:07
the comments around the
08:09
pod news report cards.
08:10
We got a ton of different
08:10
pieces of feedback from, more
08:15
than 120 different publishers.
08:17
so that was really interesting
08:17
and really interesting
08:19
seeing what people thought
08:19
about various podcast,
08:22
platforms and apple and
08:22
Spotify, and everything else.
08:26
so yeah, you were in the room,
08:26
Sam, what'd you take away from?
08:28
I
08:29 Sam
subscribed to blue apron.
08:30
That was the first thing I did.
08:32
I think, what it showed was
08:32
these platforms need to engage
08:36
with the podcast community.
08:37
They're not really doing it.
08:39
Uh, and the feedback they're
08:39
getting, is, what they need to
08:42
hear, and they're not hearing
08:42
it from their own channel.
08:46
Good on you for producing
08:47 Alban
it.
08:48
And I think it was telling
08:48
that I'm only two of the
08:50
three big podcasting apps
08:50
decided to hear the, what
08:53
you had to say and what you'd
08:53
already compiled for them.
08:55
So if they're not using their
08:55
own channels, you'd want them
08:58
to at least use the ones that,
08:58
uh, journalists like yourself
09:01
we're putting together.
09:02 James
Yeah.
09:02
And I think so what I'm doing
09:02
is I'm sharing every single
09:05
comment, With, both apple
09:05
and Google who asked and
09:08
Spotify who've now asked.
09:10
so all three do want to end
09:10
up seeing them, but, I thought
09:13
that it was interesting
09:13
the first time when I went
09:15
to Spotify, they had no
09:15
interest in what I was doing.
09:17 Sam
but I'm so glad your mum
09:17
answered the survey as well,
09:20
because, Apple's unavailability
09:20
on Android is hurting the.
09:25
Yeah,
09:26 James
no, no.
09:28
Lots of people said that
09:28
lots of people said that.
09:31
And I thought that
09:31
was interesting.
09:32
when I was chatting to the
09:32
folks at apple about this,
09:34
I said, there is a lot of
09:34
comment that it would be
09:37
great for the industry.
09:38
If there was an apple podcasts
09:38
app on Android and in typical
09:42
apple fashion, they smiled
09:42
and looked benignly at me.
09:45
And that was about
09:45
as far as it went.
09:47
Do you think that.
09:49 Alban
I would love to see,
09:49
especially now, it's been
09:51
a year since we've had apple
09:51
podcast subscriptions, right.
09:53
And the problem for people to
09:53
have to go and upload premium
09:58
content to Patrion, and then
09:58
to Spotify, through anchor and
10:01
then to apple, and maybe even a
10:01
free, um, feed through something
10:05
like bus route, and you have
10:05
to go and do it four times.
10:08
That's a lot of
10:08
work for creators.
10:10
Apple could simplify that quite
10:10
a bit with an Android app.
10:13
And then now you can.
10:15
This is the way to get
10:15
the premium feed and I'm
10:17
not going to go and put
10:17
it on 12 other locations.
10:20 Sam
talking about apple,
10:20
they made a big announcement
10:23
about apple connect.
10:24
What were your thoughts
10:25 James
on the James?
10:25
Yeah, so they have
10:25
announced that there will
10:27
be follower numbers in
10:27
apple podcasts connect.
10:30
So you'll be able to
10:30
see now that's not your
10:33
total subscribers because
10:33
people listen in things
10:36
that other of course, than
10:36
apple, but that does mean.
10:39
Apple and Spotify and
10:39
Google the top three apps.
10:43
we'll all have follower
10:43
numbers in there.
10:45
So for the first time we
10:45
can probably make a good
10:48
guesstimate in terms of
10:48
our total subscriptions.
10:52
Um, overcast also sends
10:52
those back to podcast hosts.
10:56
Although very few podcast
10:56
hosts actually surface
10:59
those particular numbers.
11:00
But I looked at that and
11:00
I think I've got 1,200.
11:05
followers on overcast, but
11:05
I only get 170 downloads
11:09
a day from overcast, which
11:09
I think again, says some
11:11
interesting things there,
11:11
but, are there any standards
11:15
around what a follower is?
11:16
No, not really.
11:17
Do we know, is it
11:17
an active follower?
11:19
we don't know any of that
11:19
stuff, but I think more
11:21
numbers are always helpful,
11:23 Sam
but do you think open
11:25 Alban
every time we get more
11:25
data from apple, from the
11:27
podcast apps, The better
11:27
that can be standardized and
11:31
made more transparent to the
11:31
listeners and to the podcasters.
11:35
The better.
11:36 Sam
Now, one of the other
11:36
big announcements at podcasts
11:39
movement was the, annual Tom
11:39
Webster show or the infinite
11:44
dial show as I should call it.
11:45
And he did a great job, very
11:45
humorous, but very informative.
17:36 James
Yeah, I think that,
17:36
the big story of course,
17:38
was the fact that the
17:38
number drops for podcasting.
17:41
Yes.
17:41
Lots of, increases in
17:41
terms of, online audio
17:44
and everything else.
17:45
But I think in terms of the
17:45
actual, monthly, podcast
17:49
listener figure that dropped
17:49
from 41% last year to 38%
17:53
this year, there was an
17:53
audible gasp in the room.
17:56
which was quite a thing.
17:58
Yeah,
17:58 Alban
we'd seen stuff
17:58
ourselves and we validated
18:01
through other data points.
18:02
We were like, it seems to
18:02
have slowed quite a bit.
18:04
The industry is still growing,
18:04
but the number of people
18:06
listening on a consistent
18:06
basis tapered off a little.
18:10
but yeah, audible gasp
18:10
around the room and, uh, no.
18:14 James
No, I, I was expecting a
18:14
very American, whoops and rounds
18:18
of applause and everything else.
18:19
And we got none of that.
18:20
It was like being at a funeral.
18:21
but Tom explained it very well
18:21
that actually it's mostly 12
18:25
to 35 year olds and it's people
18:25
going back to school, go back to
18:29
work after the pandemic, their
18:29
data was compiled in general.
18:33
So we should bear that in
18:33
mind, but January really
18:36
was the beginning of the
18:36
return after the pandemic.
18:39
and so maybe that's it.
18:40
But does that mean that podcast
18:40
growth has stalled in reality
18:45
over the last couple of years?
18:46
I don't know.
18:47 Alban
I would think that it's
18:47
more, that we had a moment where
18:50
things were crawling forward.
18:51
So it's not that it
18:51
stalled or that it's
18:53
turned and gone back lower.
18:55
It's just that we had a
18:55
period in time where a lot
18:58
of people tested positive.
19:00
And that was really good.
19:01
Spotify, YouTube helped
19:01
drive some of that testing.
19:04
And then some people said
19:04
this isn't the right for
19:06
me, I'm enjoying the Twitch
19:06
streams that I'm watching.
19:09
I'm enjoying YouTube content.
19:11
And so they're able to
19:11
go back to the content
19:13
that they enjoyed more.
19:14
So I don't see it as a
19:14
stalling of the industry as
19:17
much as more people tested
19:17
it out and some found out
19:19
that it wasn't for them.
19:21 Sam
Yeah.
19:21
I some of the other
19:21
highlights where, in car
19:23
podcasts, things increase,
19:23
everyone go back to work.
19:26
The other things that stood
19:26
out for me were the lack
19:29
of radios within homes and
19:29
the use of smart speakers.
19:33
But, we've talked about
19:33
it last week, James, that,
19:35
it's difficult for people
19:35
to get their podcasts, to
19:38
work on small speakers.
19:39
It's not intuitive yet.
19:41
and then the other
19:41
highlights, Tik TOK surged.
19:43 James
Yeah.
19:44
it's a good job that you've
19:44
got us a tick tock, account.
19:46
Uh, that's a really
19:46
helpful thing.
19:48 Sam
And later on leaves and
19:48
death with James will be dancing
19:51
at podcast movement on Arctic
19:51
talk channels and make your way
19:54
over there to see that once in a
19:56 James
lifetime moment.
19:57
Yeah.
19:57
Yeah.
19:57
I know it was interesting
19:57
seeing that, on the radio
20:00
receiver ownership, um, that
20:00
isn't a story about radio.
20:03
That's a story about hardware
20:03
and there's still an awful
20:06
lot of radio listening, going.
20:08
It's just that we listen in
20:08
different ways and, it's
20:10
very easy to look at that
20:10
figure and go, radio's dying
20:13
and everything else, and that
20:13
will be completely wrong.
20:15
a video or indeed smart
20:15
speakers, haven't killed the
20:18
radio star in many cases.
20:19
they've actually helped that.
20:20
So, yeah.
20:21
That's good news.
20:22 Alban
I'd love to talk a little
20:22
bit about that Tik TOK number.
20:24
We've experimented with Tik
20:24
TOK for Buzzsprout and I'm
20:27
starting to think of it as a
20:27
perfect corollary with politics.
20:32
Podcasting is the
20:32
ultra sticky, but very
20:34
difficult to grow medium.
20:36
you build relationships with
20:36
people, stick around with
20:38
podcasts for years and years.
20:40
Tik TOK is the exact
20:40
opposite, incredible
20:42
reach, incredible vitality.
20:44
If you get lucky, but
20:44
people do not stick around.
20:47
You can have thousands and
20:47
tens of thousands of followers
20:49
and not get any views.
20:51
If you don't have great
20:51
content, you pair these.
20:53
It's like a barbell strategy
20:53
where if something goes
20:55
viral on Tik TOK, you can
20:55
then transfer some of those
20:59
people who are interested in.
21:01
Over to your podcast where
21:01
it's much stickier and
21:04
I've now seen four or five
21:04
different podcasters that
21:07
have used this strategy to
21:07
grow the shows really quickly.
21:10
Because every once in a
21:10
while, a tick tock video
21:12
does get millions of views.
21:14 James
Yeah.
21:15
there was some great
21:15
numbers in there.
21:16
You're right.
21:16
and, 35 to 50 fours Tik TOK
21:16
is now bigger than Pinterest,
21:20
Twitter, Snapchat and Lincoln.
21:22
Um, you know, doing some
21:22
fantastic figures and 36% of
21:27
people in the U S currently
21:27
use that service, which is a
21:31
increase of 57% over last year.
21:33
So, yeah.
21:34
You know, it's clearly
21:34
doing something.
21:36
Maybe I should sign up
21:36
to it at some point.
21:39
No, James
21:39 Sam
don't do it.
21:40
Just don't do it.
21:42
moving on the we're
21:42
here at podcast movement.
21:45
It was the night before
21:45
the event started.
21:47
We went along, James.
21:49
The winner of it was, nine 12.
24:13 James
Yes.
24:14
Nine 12, from Amazon music
24:14
from pineapple studios and
24:17
Wondery pineapple studios doing
24:17
incredible, work at the MBAs.
24:20
Um, but it was what a great,
24:20
uh, ceremony it was because
24:25
for the first time, I think,
24:25
zoom awards shows are fine,
24:28
but they don't feel that.
24:30
And I think this was the first
24:30
time that actually it felt
24:32
like this is an industry event.
24:35
This is something which
24:35
is, exciting, inclusive,
24:39
um, loads of people there.
24:41
And I just felt.
24:43
Positive starts to podcast
24:43
movement evolutions run
24:47
by the podcasts academy
24:47
who did a great job.
24:49
Where you were you there?
24:50
Alvin?
24:51
Did you see any
24:51 Alban
of the ambitious?
24:53
No, I was landing a
24:53
Delta flight, but I was
24:55
following all the aerials.
24:57 Sam
No, just
24:57
sitting back there.
24:59
I'm not a mega talents.
25:00
Always bring the plane
25:00
I'll have too much to do
25:04 Alban
when I was able
25:04
to follow a lot of it
25:05
through Ariel's tweets.
25:06
And, yeah, it's exciting to see
25:06
us starting to have some of our
25:09
real events and for podcasting
25:09
to get a little bit of.
25:12 James
Yeah, no, it was a really
25:12
nice, uh, really good event.
25:15
And, I very much enjoyed
25:15
standing at the back and you
25:18
know, Jay Shetty very well.
25:19
I believe he may be coming on
25:21 Sam
monk.
25:22
yes.
25:22
Yeah.
25:23
He's stolen a life in London
25:23
coming out of his Buddhist hole
25:26
and we know him very well, so
25:26
he's going to come on to Podland
25:30
and George, the poet as well.
25:31
So congratulations
25:31
to both of those.
25:34
What I would have loved to have
25:34
seen was maybe an international
25:37
card screen, not just UK or
25:37
English speaking language.
25:40
I think it would have been nice.
25:42
Have there been other countries
25:42
brought into that maybe next
25:45
year, that's something that
25:45
the ambiance can look out.
25:46
I think we've seen the
25:46
rise of more international
25:50
podcasting, like Theo.
25:51
We should bring them
25:51
into the family and not
25:53
just leave them on the.
25:54 James
Yeah, no agreed.
25:56
And, great to see the podcast
25:56
academy who are now doing a
25:59
director, you know, you can
25:59
vote for the new board of
26:03
governors and 40% of those
26:03
people are going to be Indy.
26:06
And, so that's good to
26:06
end up seeing what else
26:09
is on your list, Spotify?
26:11
Oh, yes.
26:11
I've heard of
26:11 Sam
them.
26:12
It's their policy last night.
26:13
So thanks for that guys.
26:14
but other than that, they've
26:14
not had another good week.
26:17
they seem to be going
26:17
through bad weeks.
26:19
Gem word on variety.
26:21
slated them for their
26:21
recent, sponsorship
26:25
of Barcelona for you.
26:26
That's football, soccer.
26:28
I don't know what you
26:28
want to call it, James.
26:29
I'm not sure.
26:29
You know what that is,
26:29
but Barcelona I've see
26:32
have gratefully accepted
26:32
$310 million from Spotify.
26:37
And I think the point that
26:37
he wrote, was very good.
26:40
Uh, he's saying that, Spotify
26:40
aren't reading the room, Joe
26:43
Rogan's controversy, nearly
26:43
appended the company, uh, United
26:47
even more by largely alienated
26:47
community of musicians.
26:51
the staff weren't happy there
26:51
was open revolt, and yet Daniel
26:54
felt that the best thing he
26:54
could do with his money was to
26:57
go and support a football team.
26:59
And he thinks that there's
26:59
some tangible link between
27:02
music and football.
27:05
Unpack that all.
27:06
Cause I'm sure you've
27:06
got insight to why
27:08
his alternate football
27:09
team
27:09 James
I've got
27:09
no insights there.
27:11
I think the quote that I
27:11
took from that, story was
27:14
that there's just a lack of
27:14
self-awareness, in that company
27:17
from the bottom, To the top.
27:18
And I think that's
27:18
probably a fair thing.
27:20
It's just something for
27:20
Spotify to bear in mind
27:23
that You know, you lose your
27:23
reputation quite fast and it
27:28
takes a time to rebuild that.
27:30
But, it's easy as I keep
27:30
on saying, whenever we
27:32
mentioned Spotify, it's
27:32
very easy to kick Spotify.
27:35
It's very easy to, say, they
27:35
don't pay people enough and
27:38
that's not necessarily true.
27:39
I don't think so.
27:40
it may just be, grumpy.
27:42 Sam
So one of the things
27:42
I asked several spots
27:44
fires last night who's the
27:44
final say on podcasting,
27:48
they couldn't answer it.
27:49
They couldn't tell me it was
27:49
the megaphone guys that couldn't
27:52
tell me if it was Dawn Ostroff.
27:53
And that said more to me about
27:53
the internal structure of
27:57
that company that needs to be
27:57
fixed because if there isn't
28:00
one person whose job it is to
28:00
set the direction strategy,
28:03
um, what they doing, then
28:03
they haven't got a whole.
28:07 Alban
Yeah, a lot of this is
28:07
actually completely news to me.
28:10
I didn't know that
28:10
there were any sort of
28:11
football sponsorships.
28:13
I'm almost not unaware of
28:13
football as a sport, so I don't
28:16
have much insight here as well.
28:17 James
me too, that
28:17
makes two of us.
28:19
So there you go.
28:20 Sam
So they share price
28:20
obviously is tanking.
28:23
It's a 1 43 this morning, which
28:23
is close to its all time low.
28:28
so my bet that Netflix
28:28
is going to buy Spotify
28:30
is looking good, Jameson.
28:32 James
Yeah, you just
28:32
keep on betting that
28:34
I'll keep on betting.
28:35
The apple podcast will
28:35
launch an Android app and
28:37
what one or other of us will
28:37
be proved completely wrong
28:40
by the end of the year.
28:42 Sam
Spotify has other big
28:42
announcement this week.
28:44
Was that the green room
28:44
out there, their clubhouse
28:47
competitor, is going to be
28:47
rebranded to Spotify live.
28:50
Does that mean James?
28:51
You'll be jumping on
28:51
board and running a
28:53
green room or a Spotify.
28:56 James
Uh, I think if Spotify
28:56
clever and crafty, they
28:59
will focus on music, which
28:59
is what they are best known
29:02
as they will use that as a
29:02
platform to bring in some big
29:06
stars and things like that.
29:08
I think at this moment,
29:08
it's not that interesting.
29:11
And I think the infinite
29:11
dial data around these social
29:15
audio apps, shows that
29:15
it's just incredibly low.
29:18
So I'm not that excited.
29:20
You are you excited
29:20
about Spotify?
29:22 Alban
The one thing that
29:22
stuck out to me in the infant
29:24
dial data was that, Twitter
29:24
spaces was actually the
29:27
top of all of these apps.
29:29
And it really drives home.
29:30
The important thing is
29:30
your social graph being
29:33
tied to these rooms.
29:34
And so when new apps are
29:34
trying to join and say,
29:37
we're going to do the creator
29:37
experience better, we're
29:40
going to make it even easier.
29:41
And there'll be more
29:41
interactivity in the room
29:44
that is not close to as
29:44
important as the ability
29:46
to reach people and to have
29:46
that social graph plugged in.
29:51
Um, I think Facebook and
29:51
Twitter, maybe a tick tock,
29:53
those are much more primed to
29:53
create these kinds of audio
29:57
experience than anybody else.
29:58 Sam
other announcements
29:58
where child's bull are
30:00
going to deprecate their
30:00
charitable small ant.
30:04
Is that something that
30:04
they should be doing Jane?
30:06 James
Yeah.
30:06
charitable is
30:06
basically going away.
30:08
So if you have been using
30:08
charitable, my understanding
30:10
is that, basically gets
30:10
folded into megaphone and.
30:14
You as a third party will not
30:14
be able to use it in the future.
30:18
Pots sites continues as a
30:18
third party service though.
30:22
but that probably comes
30:22
as no particular surprise.
30:25
Spotify has also updated our
30:25
list of partners that it has
30:27
for Spotify, open access.
30:30
That's another way that you can
30:30
get paid subscriptions into,
30:33
Spotify, a cast, which was
30:33
announced as a launch partner,
30:36
still listened in there.
30:37
So a cast must've had a
30:37
bit of a change in mind.
30:41
Spotify has also signed to
30:41
big French podcasters, which
30:44
is interesting, Bubba bam.
30:45
And it shows us savoir shows
30:45
us as far as the number
30:48
one podcast, in France.
30:51
so that's basically Spotify
30:51
buying the Joe Rogan of
30:53
France, although they
30:53
will not thank me for it.
30:55
uh,
30:57 Sam
as he says,
30:58 James
yes, and
30:58
they're also getting.
31:00
testing the Spotify
31:00
audience network, which
31:03
is the advertising
31:03
thing in the country.
31:05
The one thing that Spotify does,
31:05
which I think is brilliant,
31:07
or one of the many things of
31:07
course, that Spotify does, which
31:09
I think is brilliant is their
31:09
R and D blog, which is deeply
31:14
techie, but really interesting.
31:16
They released a paper last
31:16
week around how search has
31:19
been changed for podcasts.
31:21
So semantic search,
31:21
so you can know.
31:24
Search for things that
31:24
you would expect, you
31:26
know, losing weight.
31:28
And it will understand
31:28
that also means dieting.
31:30
And that also means I'm
31:30
not saying anything, Sam,
31:32 Sam
it's got all that, oh
31:32
God, he's not on YouTube.
31:34
So anyone could be
31:34
anything they like on this
31:37 James
podcast.
31:38
But, Spotify is still making
31:38
all of the announcements
31:40
aren't they, Alvin and,
31:40
still pushing forward with
31:43
their plan to take over.
31:45 Alban
This would have been,
31:45
announcements that would
31:47
have also have loved to hear
31:47
from the YouTube team today.
31:49
we've for a long time, been
31:49
looking at how they surface
31:52
podcasts for Google search.
31:54
And, it's always felt like
31:54
it was maybe 20 years behind
31:57
the rest of Google search.
31:58
maybe we'll get some
31:58
announcements there as well.
32:00
I liked this
32:00
modifies doing this.
32:02
It'll help more people be
32:02
exposed to podcasts, especially
32:05
who are looking for specific
32:05
things around weight loss and.
32:09
Getting slim.
32:10 Sam
Now, moving on.
32:11
One of the things that
32:11
we've talked about in the
32:13
past is transcripts and
32:13
the lack of transcripts.
32:16
You've been lucky that John
32:16
Spurlock and Benjamin Bellamy
32:19
have given us some great data
32:19
about actually how little
32:22
transcripts are included in
32:22
our Buzzsprout do a great
32:24
job of including that.
32:26
And we do include our
32:26
transcript in all of our
32:29
shows, but I wonder, I think
32:29
we had a private conversation
32:32
a little while back.
32:33
why do we have show notes,
32:33
transcripts, and chapters.
32:38
To me, it could be one document.
32:39
your show notes could
32:39
be the headers of a
32:41
word document structure.
32:43
And then the text of
32:43
it is the transcript.
32:46 Alban
one of my favorite
32:46
podcasts conversations with
32:48
Tyler's Tyler, Cowen, the
32:48
economist, that's actually
32:51
how they do their show.
32:52
They do a human edited
32:52
transcript, and then they use
32:55
that to compile the show notes.
32:57
So it's links inside of.
33:00
I think that's interesting.
33:01
There's not a lot
33:01
of standardization
33:04
around that right now.
33:05
but it is unfortunate that
33:05
we still are only seeing one
33:08
to one and a half percent of
33:08
podcasts is using transcripts.
33:11
The numbers are higher on
33:11
Buzzsprout in particular
33:13
because of our push there.
33:14
But, the ecosystem has a
33:14
lot of space to grow and I
33:18
like to see more podcasts
33:18
be transcript first.
33:21
Like they're really
33:21
focusing on providing a
33:23
great written experience
33:23
in addition to the audio.
33:28
Yeah.
33:28
I mean,
33:28 Sam
uplands supposed to by
33:28
reading needs to turn it on.
33:30
Don't they James, they
33:30
don't have anything
33:32 James
yet.
33:32
Yeah.
33:32
Yeah.
33:33
I think it's really important.
33:34
And I think, a lot of this
33:34
will, depend on the outcome
33:37
of the Sirius XM court case,
33:37
that disability advocates have
33:41
brought, and I don't want to
33:41
be that guy, but it's 20, 22.
33:44
We shouldn't be having a
33:44
conversation about whether the
33:46
transcripts are a good idea.
33:48
We should be having a
33:48
conversation with apple
33:50
and Spotify about when
33:50
are you putting them in?
33:52
and how fast can you
33:52
actually get them there?
33:55 Alban
it's always been
33:55
surprised to me when you
33:57
look at the production value,
33:57
going into a lot of these
33:59
shows, they are not, cheap.
34:01
They're doing a lot of work
34:01
is really highly produced.
34:05
And yet we can't find an intern
34:05
or $75 to go to rev.com and
34:09
get a human edited transcript.
34:11
And I'm not sure where the
34:11
disconnect is because it's
34:15
not a money issue and it's
34:15
not a technology issue.
34:17
It seems just to be an issue
34:17
of care, but there are a
34:21
lot of people that depend
34:21
on transcripts, to be able
34:23
to engage with the content.
34:25
And it makes it so much
34:25
easier to share the content
34:27
and discover the content.
34:28
If we saw more in the apps
34:28
or apple or Spotify putting
34:32
transcripts into the actual
34:32
players, I think that we
34:36
would see more adoption
34:36
from the host side and from
34:39
the podcast or side saying
34:39
this is important to us.
34:42
Maybe it is just the
34:42
lack of availability
34:44
in the podcast apps.
34:46 Sam
well, what's your
34:46
space and see if apple
34:47
and Spotify do anything.
34:49
I'm not holding my.
34:50
Now James, you had another
34:50
big announcement this week.
34:53
You've grown the empire explain.
34:56 James
Yeah.
34:56
So the pod news
34:56
network is now three.
34:59
we obviously have helped,
34:59
Brown by letter 18
35:01
months ago with, sounds.
35:03
very good, ad tech newsletter
35:03
and all of that stuff, And,
35:07
wanted to do the same with
35:07
podcasts, listeners, and
35:11
ways to discover new shows.
35:13
So really pleased to be able
35:13
to announce that, the earbuds
35:16
podcast collective from is
35:16
joining the pod news network.
36:10
So we'll be working together.
36:11
Cross-promotions around
36:11
making sure that people can
36:14
find great new shows and
36:14
it's a great newsletter.
36:17
It comes out every week.
36:18
you can, go and get
36:18
it@earbuds.audio, which
36:21
is the brand new domain
36:21
name that I bought for it.
36:24
and, it's great.
36:25
Five really good episodes
36:25
from a different creator
36:29
every single week.
36:30
It's a superstar.
36:32 Sam
Cool now, moving
36:32
on, we were very lucky.
36:35
The boys from rss.com took us
36:35
out for dinner on the first
36:39
night of podcast movement.
36:40
Very fancy.
36:41
so our house and one of the
36:41
comments we talked about
36:44
was, a cast and, a cast
36:44
basically spamming the industry.
36:48
I think the title of last week
36:48
show was, spam, spam, spam,
36:52
and spam from the Monty Python.
36:55
Did that get in
36:55
trouble for that?
36:57 James
I had a very good
36:57
if slightly frosty power
37:01
with, our friends at
37:01
ICAST, the other day.
37:04
And they were basically
37:04
saying, what did we do wrong?
37:07
And I said, I think, you
37:07
know what you did wrong.
37:15
but yeah, the, there was
37:15
clearly, a privacy issue
37:18
with having raw email
37:18
addresses in RSS feeds.
37:22
it would be good if
37:22
the industry where.
37:25
Help sort that out.
37:26
I don't see too much
37:26
evidence of the industry
37:29
caring enough though,
37:29
which is a bit of a shame.
37:31
have you had any emails from
37:31
any other podcast hosts?
37:33
Cause it's not
37:33
just a cost, is it
37:35 Alban
we've seen this for
37:35
years and years that every
37:37
once in a while, somebody that
37:37
buys the list, just scrapes
37:39
the list and decides to email.
37:41
I think what really stood out
37:41
to us was that nearly every
37:45
bus pro podcast got the email
37:45
on the same day from a cast
37:48
and they also reaching out.
37:50
Was Buzzsprout compromised.
37:51
Why are we getting these
37:51
emails, from your competitor?
37:54
And so we felt we needed
37:54
to be able to reach out and
37:57
explain, this is not something
37:57
that we've exposed instead.
38:00
It's a, attempt by a cast to
38:00
grow their subscriber base.
38:04 James
Yeah.
38:04
and, I think from my side acorns
38:04
doing it, when they also offer
38:09
a service to stop your email
38:09
being used by spammers in the
38:13
RSS feed is just, a little bit.
38:16
but yeah, there are
38:16
excellent people at
38:17
ICAST and, uh, go Sweden.
38:30
So one of the
38:30 Sam
things we did talk about
38:30
that was possibly using OAuth
38:33
as a way of making, hosts
38:33
the verifier of that account.
38:38
Buzzsprout or RSS would then
38:38
have that, uh, Wharf jump,
38:42
because look, we put our
38:42
credit card with you with
38:44
we've spent a lot of time,
38:44
so you know who we are.
38:47
So the OAuth could simply
38:47
just like the Facebook jumped.
38:50
Yeah.
38:51
Wait with both SPRAT
38:51
click, you verify it.
38:53
And off it goes
38:53
rather than spamming.
38:55
Would you look at
38:55
something like that?
38:57
Yeah,
38:57 Alban
I think there's a
38:57
lot of ideas in this space.
38:59
James had one where you
38:59
could turn on and off for
39:01
the, email address to
39:01
be inside the RSS feed.
39:05
There's some push in
39:05
the podcasting 2.0 spec.
39:08
I even had someone come up to
39:08
the table today or yesterday
39:12
and, um, a blockchain solution.
39:14
Uh, it was based on some
39:14
proprietary AI, so I'm not sure
39:17
if these are buzz words or a
39:17
solution, but, hiding these
39:19
email addresses, the web was
39:19
built on being open and, it
39:22
turns out that people will have.
39:24 James
Yeah, no, indeed.
39:25
and Sam just said that has
39:25
our credit card information.
39:28
no, we don't.
39:29
We're sponsored by bus pass.
39:34
Yes.
39:34 Sam
Most of the point, see
39:34
you at the policy later,
39:36
James, moving on then,
39:36
some awards event corner.
39:39
if you want to be a judge
39:39
at the Irish podcast awards,
39:42
you still have a chance.
39:44
Entries are open until April.
39:47
and also the British
39:47
podcast awards.
39:49
you've got three weeks left
39:49
if you want to enter the
39:52
British podcast awards.
39:53 James
Yeah.
39:54
Which is all good.
39:55
it's always nice seeing
39:55
podcast awards, ceremonies
39:57
from different countries.
39:58
And I think there is
39:58
a good place to have
40:01
individual countries having
40:01
their own, podcasts.
40:04
arguably you could claim that
40:04
the ambiance or the American
40:06
podcast awards, but that may
40:06
be being slightly unfair.
40:09
But I think certainly
40:09
being able to give Irish
40:12
podcasts, their place in the.
40:15
Alongside, you wouldn't have
40:15
any place in the drizzle.
40:19
then that's a good thing.
40:20
the podcast show is coming up
40:20
the new international festival
40:23
for podcasting in London.
40:25
This may, which I seem to
40:25
be saying an awful lot.
40:27
Uh, recently they announced
40:27
their first 100 speakers,
40:30
loads of very big names, both
40:30
from the UK podcasting scene
40:33
and from, overseas as well.
40:35
They're going to
40:35
announce another 250.
40:38
Names astonishing.
40:41
Yes, we might.
40:42
Didn't make the first card.
40:43
We might.
40:43
We didn't make the first cut.
40:44
you can put your day pass, from
40:44
55 pounds, which is already a
40:48
tiny amount, but if you're a
40:48
real skinflint, then you can
40:50
use a promo code pod news, to
40:50
get another 20% off for limited
40:54
number of passes and that's
40:54
at V podcast show london.com.
40:57 Sam
one more event.
40:58
That's come up on the calendar.
41:00
This one's in New
41:00
Jersey is put stock.
41:03
Uh, have you heard
41:03
of this one yet?
41:04
Open?
41:05
No, I haven't.
41:06
So you might, you
41:06
wouldn't be going
41:07 Alban
to it then?
41:09
I think, maybe five conferences
41:09
a year is about my limit.
41:11
So are you coming to London?
41:13
I'm not, I had
41:13
another trip planned.
41:16
I'm able to make it this year.
41:17
You'll have to let me know for
41:18 Sam
next.
41:19
We will.
41:20 James
yes, we'll give you some
41:20
nice warm, flat, British beer.
41:23
And you'll be
41:23
delighted with that,
41:25 Sam
she podcasts live, 20,
41:25
22 tickets are on sale.
41:28
Now I caught up with Jess
41:28
actually here at podcast
41:31
movement and she's announcing,
41:31
or we'll be announcing, she
41:34
podcast's coming to Europe or.
41:37
Oh, wow.
41:39
Uh, what she's space?
41:40
Yeah, she
41:40 James
was very excited.
41:41
It's something she won't be
41:41
announcing it now as we've
41:43
done, we've just announced it.
41:44 Sam
there you go.
41:45
I got the exclusive and I'm
41:45
pre-announced was I embargoed?
41:48
I don't know.
41:49
I might've been embargoed.
41:51 James
what else have
41:51
we done, this week?
41:53
Has it been fun
41:53
being here this week?
41:55
Sam, it's been a thrill
41:55
and a delight to.
41:58
Presenting a podcast with
41:58
you for a year and a half to
42:00
finally meet you face to face.
42:02
That's been quite fun.
42:03
Yeah, he
42:03 Sam
did say it was the last
42:03
time he wants to do it though.
42:07
Set.
42:07
He's got to do it with me
42:07
in London, but how was it?
42:11
It's been great actually.
42:12
I have never gone to a podcast
42:12
movement or podcast event.
42:15
I've been in the tech industry
42:15
and done events before.
42:18
I'm meeting up with Heather.
42:20
All's good.
42:20
And Jess Koufman and Todd
42:20
and Rob from new media show,
42:24
obviously itself going out,
42:24
having some drinks, Paris
42:28
Hilton, let the side down a bit.
42:29
Last night, she can't DJ catchy.
42:31
She can't eat.
42:33
but I want to give a special
42:33
thanks out to Harry Darren,
42:35
who put me on Drew's wing
42:35
the few days and just kept
42:38
me sane with wine and beer.
42:40
But thank you, Harry.
42:41
I literally thank you to a
42:41
lot of other people, so it was
42:44
great to see people at school.
42:46 James
And how has pot podcast
42:46
movement been for you album?
42:50
I
42:50 Alban
guess movement is the
42:50
premier podcasting event.
42:52
We've come to them every
42:52
year, since the very
42:54
first Kickstarter in 2014.
42:56
And we will continue to come.
42:58
as long as they have them, this
42:58
is always the best place to get
43:00
feedback from customers and new
43:00
ideas and connect with everybody
43:04
in the podcasting industry.
43:05
Highly recommended.
43:06
It's really good.
43:07 James
coming up in Dallas
43:07
in August, you should go
43:09
to podcast, movement.com
43:09
to grab your tickets.
43:13 Sam
It was for you,
43:14 James
Knackering is the answer.
43:16
I have realized that it's trying
43:16
to produce a daily newsletter.
43:20
Doing full-on podcast movement
43:20
probably doesn't work too well.
43:24
So maybe I need a little
43:24
bit of help next time.
43:27
Firstly, I need to write the
43:27
tech, to allow other people
43:30
to help, but that's the thing.
43:31
Yeah, no, it's been really
43:31
interesting and it's been great
43:33
to be out of Australia for
43:33
the first time in, two years.
43:36
Thank you.
43:37
Scott Morrison, our
43:37
current prime minister.
43:39
there's an election.
43:41
It's the first time I'll
43:41
be able to vote now that
43:43
I'm in new Australia.
43:44
so that should be, so
43:44
that should be great fun.
43:46
but yeah, so it's been great
43:46
to, you know, leave, leave
43:49
the country and remind myself
43:49
that, everything else,
43:51
uh, So that's been cool.
43:53
And that's it for this week.
43:55
if you have enjoyed this
43:55
show or any of our previous
43:58
shows, you mentioned that.
44:00
So then please tell your
44:00
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44:01
or Tik TOK, where at Portland
44:01
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44:04
brand new email address, which
44:04
may or may not work comments.
44:08
Heartland.news.
44:09
You'll also find all our
44:09
previous shows and our
44:11
interviews@parkland.news.
44:14 Sam
Um, music is from ignite
44:14
jingles, and we're hosted
44:17
and sponsored by, and I
44:17
can say it now that you're
44:19
right next to us, our good
44:19
friends from Buzzsprout.
44:22 James
Thank you
44:22
for coming Alvin.
44:23 Alban
Thank you for having me.
44:24
It was a pleasure
44:25
and
44:26 James
keep listening.