Podland News

The last word in podcasting news. Every Thursday, James Cridland from Podnews in Australia and Sam Sethi, from 'Podcast First' River Radio in the UK, review and analyse some of the week's top podcasting news from around the world. They also interview some of the biggest names making the news. Sponsored by Buzzsprout and SquadCast.

https://podland.news

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episode 69: Acast you're still spamming your competition? BBC you're still losing your talent? YouTube you're still making us wait? Apple you're still not providing us transcripts? Why O Why!? [transcript]


Sponsor

  • Buzzsprout - last week, 3,847 people started a podcast with Buzzsprout 

Special Guest

  • Harry Duran talks about how he found a sponsor for his new podcast, raising $9k before launching  

SubStack

  • Substack is moving into podcasting - “but better”. The platform also lets you podcast for free

YouTube

  • YouTube is the third most popular podcast platform in America

  • Should your podcast be on YouTube? Rephonic crunch the data: revealing that for English-language shows, it could well be worthwhile. The Podfather thinks it's a waste of time.

  • Dan Misener analyses the different types of podcast on YouTube

  • Jeff Vidler from Signal Hill Insights calls YouTube “the elephant in the podcasting room"

Acast

  • Acast published its annual report. The company saw net ad sales grow by 73%; while it almost doubled the loss of last year

  • Alberto Betella has suggested a podcast:verify tag, designed to removed the need for podcasters to expose/spam their email addresses in RSS feeds.

BBC

  • The hosts of one of the UK’s biggest podcasts, Mark Kermode and Simon Mayo are to take their film review podcast to Sony Music Entertainment

  • Worth Reading Is talent in control - Matt Deegan

Other

  • Podmachine has been launched - a tool to grow and edit your podcast for you
  • Headliner has launched Eddy
  • Dave Jones writes What is Podcasting 2.0 all about?
  • Podchaser launch their 3rd annual Reviews4Good program
  • Daniel J Lewis is celebrating 15 years in podcasting
  • Castopod 1.0.0-beta.12 is up! Grab your Castopod on https://castopod.org


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 2022-04-08  1h8m
 
 
00:01  James
Welcome to Podland the
00:01
last word in podcasting news.
00:03
It's Thursday, the
00:03
7th of April, 2022.
00:07
I'm James Cridland, the
00:07
editor of pod news.net.
00:09
And I'm
00:10  Sam
Sam, Seth at the MD of
00:10
river radio ATA B radio station
00:13
covering the Tim's valley.
00:15  Harry
Hi, it's Harry Duran
00:15
founder, a full cast and host of
00:17
podcast junkies and the vertical
00:17
farming podcast stay tuned for
00:21
my segment later in the show
00:25  James
Podland is sponsored
00:25
by Buzzsprout podcast.
00:27
Hosting made easy
00:27
last week, 3,847.
00:31
People started a
00:31
podcast with Buzzsprout.
00:34
You can too@buzzsprout.com
00:34
and if you use chapters
00:38
in your podcast app, then
00:38
Buzzsprout supports those.
00:41
And so do we.
00:41
So,
00:42  Sam
James, what are
00:42
we going to talk about
00:44
this week on the show?
00:45
I think we should start off with
00:45
a story that, Ashley, Carmen,
00:48
I think broke on Bloomberg.
00:50
It's a story about sub-state
00:50
getting into podcasting.
00:53
Why would sub stack a as guess
00:53
for those who don't know, what
00:57
is sub-state James and why are
00:57
they now moving into podcasting?
01:01  James
Well, they say
01:01
that they're moving into
01:02
podcasting, but better.
01:03
It's a company that makes
01:03
a paid newsletters, so
01:06
you can pay money to get,
01:06
newsletters on there.
01:09
And obviously you can have
01:09
a look at that and go,
01:11
well, why don't you make
01:11
a page podcasts as well?
01:13
They've actually been making
01:13
podcasts available on sub-state
01:16
for a while, but they've
01:16
properly beefed it up and
01:18
launched it, actually noticing
01:18
that they've poached some
01:21
podcasts from Patrion as well.
01:24
which is interesting, but,
01:24
it's just another podcast host.
01:29
if you want to host your podcast
01:29
for free on sub-state, then you
01:32
can, but obviously you can then
01:32
charge for additional, episodes
01:35
and charge a monthly fee.
01:37  Sam
So your a perfect example.
01:39
What I saw this story of
01:39
somebody who has a newsletter.
01:42
And the podcast right.
01:44
Of that same newsletter.
01:45
Is that something that, you
01:45
would ever, not you directly,
01:49
I guess, in this case, because
01:49
you'd never move off your
01:51
platform, but would it be a
01:51
natural evolution, to move into
01:55  James
podcasting?
01:56
Yeah.
01:56
I mean, you could see that
01:56
for somebody likes, sounds
01:59
profitable or for earbuds or
01:59
any of those, newsletters,
02:03
then you could see that
02:03
there's an opportunity there
02:05
in terms of having a decent
02:05
podcast, Which is also a decent
02:09
newsletter platform, and,
02:09
charging for access to that.
02:13
It's not the way that either
02:13
of those work and all that
02:15
pod news works, but I think,
02:15
you can certainly see that
02:18
there are opportunities there.
02:19
Brian Barnett are actually
02:19
noticing that, they are offering
02:23
podcast hosting without being
02:23
IAB certified and, Brian foaming
02:27
at the mouth about the IRB,
02:27
which has had a thing about
02:30
for quite some time, as well.
02:32
I'm not sure it matters,
02:32
particularly as long as
02:34
they're following the IB,
02:34
guidelines and rules now.
02:38  Sam
Would medium get into this,
02:38
given the roots of the founder
02:42
coming from Twitter, do you
02:42
think media might start to go?
02:45
Maybe we should move
02:45
into that as well.
02:47  James
And medium have been
02:47
talking about audio for awhile.
02:49
Evan used to run a Odo prior
02:49
to running Twitter, so he
02:53
knows a thing or two about
02:53
podcasting that said medium
02:56
appears to be doing quite a
02:56
few changes at the moment.
02:59
Blog on medium and they
02:59
appear to have just taken the
03:04
opportunity of posting new
03:04
stories away from their apps.
03:09
So you can only do that
03:09
online now on a web browser,
03:11
which seems a little bit
03:11
strange and they've changed
03:13
the way that creators, paid.
03:16
so I'm not necessarily sure
03:16
that a medium is going to
03:19
jump into this sort of thing.
03:21
Medium to me seems to be a
03:21
company which, is floundering
03:25
a bit and I'm not quite
03:25
sure that it knows what it
03:27
wants to do in terms of,
03:27
payments and everything else.
03:29  Sam
I guess we will see
03:29
whether sub stack actually
03:32
makes any ripple in the policy
03:32
fair, or it'll just be one
03:36
of those add on features
03:36
that nobody ever uses.
03:40
Anyway, moving on.
03:42  James
That may well be the case
03:43  Sam
To YouTube or not
03:43
to YouTube to quote Mr.
03:46
Shakespeare from Hamlet.
03:47
it's the podcast is dynamic.
03:49
Should they be using YouTube?
03:51
Now we talked about this
03:51
last week and of course,
03:53
Tom Webster, at the Edison
03:53
research, at podcast movement
03:57
evolution said that YouTube
03:57
is the third, most popular
04:00
podcast platform in America.
04:02
And of course you broke the
04:02
exclusive last week about, the
04:05
UI potentially that YouTube will
04:05
use, but having said all that.
04:12
Revealed in its data that
04:12
it could well be worth
04:15
it for English language
04:15
shows to be using YouTube.
04:19
James, what did you
04:19
think of their data?
04:21
And is this backing
04:21
up what you think?
04:23  James
Yes.
04:23
Every phonic have pulled
04:23
a bunch of different
04:25
pieces of data out there.
04:27
quite a lot of it is,
04:27
based on Google trends,
04:30
which I always think.
04:31
A bit of a weird way of doing
04:31
research on this sort of
04:35
thing, but, nevertheless,
04:35
they say that, there's been
04:37
a massive increase in YouTube
04:37
searches for the word podcast
04:40
in the last two years.
04:41
Ireland, for example, is
04:41
much more likely to search
04:44
for podcasts on YouTube
04:44
than, Italy or Spain.
04:47
for example, I'm, looking at
04:47
that, I'm just sort of wondering
04:50
whether people are actually
04:50
searching for the word podcast
04:53
or are they really searching
04:53
just for content and are they
04:56
finding content, in YouTube that
04:56
just happens to be a podcast?
05:00
I would probably
05:00
suggest it's the latter.
05:02
But, interesting to see
05:02
the data from re phonic
05:05
at least, which is useful.
05:07
I listened to two, grumpy Adam
05:07
Curry's, podcast last week.
05:10
That was a man who
05:10
needed a holiday.
05:12
My goodness.
05:13
he basically thinks that YouTube
05:13
podcasting is a waste of time
05:16
because he comes at this from
05:16
a viewpoint of, it's not about
05:21
numbers, it's about engagement.
05:23
And, he would rather 200
05:23
people who think who are
05:27
contributing to his podcast
05:27
and doing a valuable thing
05:31
than, 20,000 people, of course.
05:33
and he's absolutely fine
05:33
to have that point of view.
05:36
it's not necessarily the
05:36
point of view that many
05:38
podcasters have, and I think,
05:38
influence comes in numbers
05:41
more than anything else.
05:42
but, what'd you think we
05:42
should be doing with YouTube,
05:44  Sam
Sam.
05:44
Wow.
05:45
surprise.
05:45
I thought I'd go and
05:45
create a YouTube channel.
05:48
Now I'm stuck.
05:51
No one wants to see us, James.
05:53
No one wants to see us.
05:54
Certainly not me in the morning.
05:57
But on a more serious now
05:57
I actually might try and
06:00
experiment with using headliner.
06:03
So what I've done is I've
06:03
used the headliner app and
06:06
I've set up the RSS feed into
06:06
that and it automatically.
06:11
Posts that full
06:11
episode into YouTube.
06:15
We'll just try it for a
06:15
couple of weeks and see how
06:17  James
it goes, James.
06:18
indeed.
06:18
We'll give that a go.
06:19
so you can just find us, if
06:19
you do a YouTube search for
06:22
pod land, I'm guessing, and we
06:22
should be in there somewhere.
06:25  Sam
after a few people
06:25
have liked our page and
06:28
whatever, I can then
06:28
actually change the URL.
06:31
Indeed.
06:32
Be more friendly, but I can't
06:33  James
do it right now.
06:34
there's a bunch of other
06:34
pod lands in there.
06:36
so I'm sure that they
06:36
will be delighted.
06:38
There's a young
06:38
man wearing a suit.
06:40
who's called himself Patil
06:40
and who has 15 subscribers?
06:43
Dan Meisner from Pacific content
06:43
also posted a very interesting
06:46
blog, all about the different
06:46
types of podcasts on YouTube.
06:49
He reckons that there
06:49
are four different kinds.
06:51
Interestingly, the YouTube
06:51
PowerPoint presentation that
06:54
I saw actually said that
06:54
they had six different kinds.
06:58
So he's got four of those so
06:58
far, for his graph otherwise,
07:02
no, it wouldn't officiate
07:02
his beautiful graph, but.
07:04
Dan has done quite a lot
07:04
of interesting work on
07:06
that, which is worthwhile,
07:06
having a peak out.
07:08
I think
07:09  Sam
another person
07:09
has been looking at it.
07:12
Jeff Fiddler from signal hill
07:12
says, YouTube is the elephant
07:15
in the podcasting room.
07:17
I guess that's what
07:17
we're all talking about.
07:19
Really?
07:19
Aren't we're saying
07:19
that until this new URL.
07:22
Dropped or all sorts of
07:22
surmising, what is YouTube
07:27
podcasting strategy?
07:28
And we're also smizing is
07:28
again, to be worthwhile
07:31
at the end of the day.
07:32  James
Indeed.
07:33
we, we have heard an
07:33
awful lot of, people saying
07:35
it's going to be amazing.
07:36
It's going to be
07:36
the best thing ever.
07:38
And other people like Adam Curry
07:38
saying, couldn't care less.
07:42
it's not going to go anywhere.
07:43
interesting to see
07:43
what happens there.
07:44
Google have a pretty good
07:44
track record of promising
07:47
the earth and doing nothing.
07:49
so it'll be nice to see, that
07:49
record being broken, hopefully.
07:53
but it will be good, obviously
07:53
to continue growing the
07:56
medium and anything that has
07:56
the capability of growing
07:58
the medium is a good thing.
08:00
Indeed.
08:00
Now, moving
08:01  Sam
on a story that you.
08:03
Pod machine new company has
08:03
been launched to a tool to
08:06
grow an edit your podcast for
08:06
you and even manage guests.
08:11
It takes 48 hours to edit a
08:11
show and it starts from $49 a
08:16
month for four weekly shows.
08:18
Uniquely the tool also
08:18
includes advertising in
08:21
other podcasts, and you
08:21
can try the service free.
08:24
We understand it can
08:24
be white labeled even.
08:26
So maybe third parties use it.
08:29
Now, James Woods, have
08:29
you tried publishing
08:32
to, do you have snips?
08:33  James
I chatted with Ron
08:33
debate long a couple of weeks
08:36
ago, and, was, learning a
08:36
little bit more about pod
08:39
machine and what it is.
08:40
But basically if the only thing
08:40
holding you back in your podcast
08:45
is someone to edit your audio.
08:47
Then pod machine will do
08:47
that for you and $49 a month
08:50
for four shows is pretty
08:50
good value they've done,
08:54
some very clever sort of,
08:54
machine learning stuff and,
08:56
and everything just to, keep
08:56
their workflow to a minimum,
09:00
but it does look pretty good.
09:01
It's all based in the
09:01
Philippines where the, wages
09:04
are low and everything else, but
09:04
they still do a pretty good job.
09:07
so that's nice.
09:08
And one of the clever things
09:08
is that, when you buy a
09:11
package from them, you also
09:11
buy advertising in some
09:15
of the other, shows that.
09:18
So actually it's a very
09:18
interesting way of promoting
09:22
your podcast on other shows.
09:24
Not quite sure exactly how
09:24
the advertising works, but
09:27
I know that it does include
09:27
an amount of impressions on
09:30
other shows, probably in the
09:30
podcast network, Asia shows,
09:34
but also at other ones as well.
09:35
so very clever idea, and really
09:35
using the benefits that you get
09:39
from being in Southeast Asia.
09:42
in terms of wages and in terms
09:42
of time zones and everything
09:46
else to make something
09:46
which, should really help
09:48
some people that just need
09:48
their audio edited and made
09:52
it sound halfway decent.
09:54  Sam
worth a go and I
09:54
think the price point
09:55
is quite interesting.
09:56
The reason I say that is
09:56
because I caught up at
09:59
podcast movement with a great
09:59
guy called Harry Derrick.
10:02
We have a new entry
10:02
from Darren Darren.
10:06
So it was Harry Duran.
10:07
Not Darren.
10:08
Of course it should be, as
10:08
everybody knows, Duran Duran.
10:11
There you go.
10:11
I'll get it right.
10:12
Sometimes you mispronouncing.
10:14
I do put it.
10:14
I do apologize.
10:15
None of us are too
10:15
big to apologize.
10:16
Sorry about that.
10:17
So at podcast movement,
10:17
I met up with a great
10:20
guy called Harry Duran.
10:22
no relation to the band
10:23
and.
10:25
Company full cast does this
10:25
as well for a lot of podcasts.
10:27
He's been doing it for a
10:27
while and he outsources
10:30
it as well to Singapore,
10:30
but they do a lot more.
10:33
They also do all the
10:33
social media and much more.
10:36
But Harry gave a talk
10:36
at podcast movement.
10:39
That was really great.
10:40
Sadly, it was on the last day,
10:40
but he started a new podcast,
10:45
which is about vertical farming.
10:47
Now, most people go,
10:47
oh, that's so niche.
10:50
why are we even
10:50
talking about it?
10:51
What Harry did was he
10:51
actually raised $9,000 in
10:56
sponsorship even before
10:56
it started his podcast.
10:59
And I thought with all the
10:59
people who have podcasts
11:02
going, oh, I must reach a
11:02
thousand downloads before
11:05
I go and talk to a sponsor.
11:07
Harry basically has shown us
11:07
how you can actually, if you
11:10
want to do the planning, do
11:10
the preparation in advance
11:15
and go and get a sponsor even
11:15
before you start a podcast.
11:17
So I thought to catch
11:17
up with him and find out
11:20
what is a vertical farming
11:20
podcast and how he did it.
11:23
It's a pleasure
11:24  Harry
to finally meet in person
11:24
at podcast moon evolutions.
11:26
That was
11:27  Sam
great fun.
11:27
Now, where are you based in the
11:27
U S and we can pinpoint yet.
11:31  Harry
I am in the Midwest
11:31
for the first time in
11:33
Minneapolis, Minnesota,
11:33
but I'm going way back.
11:36
I was born in El Salvador.
11:38
I grew up in New York, just
11:38
outside and Yonkers, and then
11:41
grew up in New York city.
11:43  Sam
You can hear that New
11:43
York accent in the background.
11:45
So let's look at what
11:45
is podcast junkies.
11:47
Let's kick off with.
11:48  Harry
So back in 2014,
11:48
I went to a conference
11:52
called new media expo.
11:53
I was working on a mobile app
11:53
for DJs cause that's my very
11:56
first passion electronic music.
11:58
I grew up deejaying on vinyl,
11:58
turntables and all that.
12:01
So I realized how hard it
12:01
was going to be interviewed
12:05
DJs and I pivoted to
12:05
interviewing podcasters.
12:08
I was inspired by inside
12:08
the actors studio.
12:10
There's a show here in the
12:10
states by James Lipton,
12:12
where he would interview
12:12
actors for an hour at a time.
12:15
And you get to understand
12:15
what they're about.
12:17
And I thought, what about that?
12:18
Basically tell the story
12:18
of podcasters behind the
12:21
mic, why they started the
12:21
show, what inspired them.
12:24
And also as an aside, because
12:24
I was doing video at the time,
12:26
back in 2014, it was my way
12:26
to establish a one-to-one
12:30
face-to-face connection
12:30
with podcasters and then
12:33
get to know the community.
12:35
And so when I would go to
12:35
podcast conferences afterwards,
12:37
itsy Harry, that was a
12:37
great conversation we had.
12:39
So that was all strategic
12:39
in my mind, just to make
12:42
my way and learn more about
12:42
this industry and meet the
12:45
folks that were making waves.
12:47  Sam
Now how long have you
12:47
been podcasting and give
12:49
us a bit of the timeline.
12:51  Harry
Yeah, I launched
12:51
this show in April of 2014.
12:54
So now I'm closing
12:54
in on episode 290.
12:57
So eight plus years,
12:57
actually April 5th today
13:01
when we're recording.
13:02
So we are probably somewhere
13:02
in the vicinity of my
13:04
eight year anniversary,
13:06  Sam
happy podcast anniversary.
13:08
Now, the reason I asked for
13:08
that little side note of your
13:11
background is because at podcast
13:11
movement, you gave a talk
13:15
on something called vertical
13:15
farming, which is one of your
13:18
new podcasts, not something
13:18
that people would think
13:20
naturally as a thing, a vertical
13:20
farming seems very niche.
13:25
And secondly, to talk on a
13:25
podcast about vertical farming
13:28
seems even Nisha, if that's
13:28
a word, but having said that
13:33
everyone who went to that
13:33
talk thought it was a great
13:35
talk part of the reason they
13:35
thought it was great talk.
13:37
And the key, why I want to talk
13:37
to you about it was, do you
13:40
raise the significant amount of
13:40
sponsorship money in advance?
13:45
You're starting that podcast.
13:47
I think for any podcast to
13:47
route a, who's looking to
13:50
start a podcast, even if
13:50
it's as niche as vertical
13:53
farming can raise funding.
13:56
So a lot of discussion
13:56
around podcasts is, oh, I've
13:59
got to start my podcast.
14:00
I've got to get it to show 50.
14:01
Then I've got to get
14:01
to 10,000 listeners and
14:05
then I can get a sponsor.
14:07
You proved that wrong.
14:09  Harry
How did you do it?
14:10
So I backed my way to that
14:10
math because using that CPM
14:13
model, the go-to rate is
14:13
probably twenty-five dollars.
14:16
And let's say, I
14:16
magically do get to that
14:18
10,000 download number.
14:19
That's 10 times 25, 200 $50.
14:23
Let's say I do a weekly show.
14:24
It's a thousand dollars a
14:24
month, which is not consisting
14:27
anything I'm trying to do
14:27
or anything that's going to
14:29
motivate me enough to continue.
14:30
So I knew that ahead of time.
14:32
And I said, but that's
14:32
not the path I wanted
14:34
to go down at full cast.
14:36
We are a full service agency.
14:37
We handle all aspects of
14:37
the audio, the editing, the
14:40
production, the show notes,
14:40
the marketing, the graphics.
14:42
So I said, okay, we
14:42
have that part nailed.
14:45
As far as interviewing skills,
14:45
I had been doing my show for
14:49
seven years at some Jerry
14:49
comfortable with long form
14:51
interviews, even on a topic on
14:51
not the subject matter expert
14:54
in that was given a book called
14:54
abundance by Peter Diamandis.
14:57
It's a book about
14:57
future technologies.
14:59
There's a chapter on vertical
14:59
farming, which led me to
15:01
a book called the vertical
15:01
farming by Dixon Despommier.
15:05
He's a professor in Columbia
15:05
do our of that book.
15:08
And I was like, this is
15:08
a very niche industry.
15:10
I did a little bit of
15:10
research, lots of funding.
15:13
I think at the time I did my
15:13
research, $14 billion in funding
15:16
coming in and projected by
15:16
2026, all the signs, similar
15:20
to what we see in podcasting,
15:20
a lot of VC money and which
15:22
equals marketing dollars.
15:24
So I started putting all the
15:24
pieces together and I said, can
15:26
I create my own podcast client?
15:29
And that was the
15:29
initial thought.
15:30
And so in late 29, I started
15:30
grabbing all the URLs.
15:34
Like an entrepreneurs
15:34
is likely to do vertical
15:37
farming podcast, doc.
15:39
And then a little bit later,
15:39
I talked about this in the
15:41
talk vertical farming jobs
15:41
and vertical farming weekly.
15:44
Cause I was already
15:44
thinking about this.
15:45
What are the other platforms
15:45
that can leverage again?
15:47
This is one-on-one
15:47
SEO, best practices.
15:50
We talk to our clients
15:50
about the be too cute
15:52
or overthink the name.
15:53
I said, let me just
15:53
call it what it is.
15:55
It's the vertical
15:55
farming podcast.
15:57
So if you Google those three
15:57
words, my podcast is the
16:00
very first thing that shows
16:00
up in the Google search.
16:02
And so I said the only
16:02
way to make it visible.
16:06
And attractive to future
16:06
guests is to focus specifically
16:10
on founders and CEOs only.
16:12
And they want to talk to the
16:12
marketing folks or just PR
16:14
folks about the industry,
16:14
which a lot of broadcasters do.
16:17
I knew ahead of time that people
16:17
were going to take me seriously.
16:20
They would probably start
16:20
to look at my back catalog.
16:22
I was already thinking
16:22
about that ahead of time.
16:25
So I just started with
16:25
like the early folks in
16:27
the space, people who ran.
16:30
New sites about vertical
16:30
farming and painfully enough,
16:33
they agreed to come on.
16:34
But what I did to them at
16:34
the time, since I was new
16:36
to the space, I said, I'm
16:36
learning a lot about the space.
16:39
These are the names
16:39
of the people that I'm
16:40
looking to interview.
16:41
So I'd named dropped someone
16:41
I hadn't spoken to, but I
16:44
knew who's who, so they would
16:44
see the names and they saw
16:47
that I had a solid plan.
16:49
And I said, look, I've
16:49
been doing this for
16:50
almost seven years.
16:51
I know what I'm doing.
16:52
And by the way, it's
16:52
going to be high quality
16:54
because we own an agency.
16:55
Those few things got my foot
16:55
in the door and allowed me
16:58
to stair-step my way to start
16:58
having these conversations.
17:01
I had my third or fourth
17:01
conversation with a CEO of
17:04
a company called intelligent
17:04
growth solutions in Scotland.
17:06
And this was just when
17:06
the pandemic hit, which
17:08
was, I thought it was
17:08
going to derail the show.
17:11
I said, do you still want
17:11
to have the conversation?
17:12
He said, yes, we had a
17:12
fantastic conversation.
17:15
I said, by the way,
17:15
we're looking for
17:16
sponsors for the show.
17:17
He transferred me to his
17:17
marketing guy in Chicago.
17:20
Great conversation.
17:22
It was a moment in time,
17:22
Sam, as you might imagine, if
17:24
you remember back COVID that
17:24
March, April window, the whole
17:27
world felt connected because
17:27
we were just like all going
17:30
through the same experience.
17:32
And I said, how much are
17:32
you spending on these that
17:34
you spend on these booths
17:34
in these conferences that
17:36
you can't go to anymore?
17:37
And he said, you
17:37
know, about $20,000.
17:40
So in my mind, I basically
17:40
cut that in half and came
17:42
in a thousand under, I
17:42
said, what about $9,000
17:45
to sponsor our podcast?
17:47
Which will get you an
17:47
audience of folks specifically
17:49
interested in vertical farming.
17:50
He thought about it
17:50
maybe for about a minute.
17:53
And he's like, yeah,
17:53
that sounds good.
17:54
Let's do that.
17:55
And
17:55  Sam
so did he not say
17:55
how many users have you
17:58
bought or listened to?
17:59  Harry
no, he just wanted
17:59
to know what my plan was
18:02
for the show and who I
18:02
was going to speak to.
18:06
And I think in his mind,
18:06
He's the marketing guy.
18:09
He saw that this is going to
18:09
be high quality production.
18:11
I knew what I was doing and he
18:11
saw who I had lined up already.
18:15
And I had just had an hour
18:15
long conversation with his CEO.
18:19
So it came in as a referral
18:19
from his CEO who said,
18:21
you should talk to Harry.
18:23
And then I look back on it.
18:24
There's no one thing to point
18:24
to, but the fact that those
18:28
six, seven years of honing
18:28
my interview skills allowed
18:31
me to have a really engaging
18:31
one-to-one connection with a
18:35
CEO of a company where he felt
18:35
like I really enjoyed myself
18:39
by the way, subsequently I
18:39
had a second conversation with
18:42
him later on in the season.
18:44
So we've had two interviews with
18:44
that CEO who came back to me
18:47
later when they went to raise
18:47
their second round of funding,
18:49
he said, Hey Harry, can you
18:49
send me those two recordings?
18:51
The team really enjoyed it.
18:53
We want to send it to our
18:53
investors because we're
18:55
raising another round.
18:56
So that just speaks to the
18:56
quality of making sure,
18:59
like you don't scrimp
18:59
on any of the pieces.
19:02
If I had a horrible
19:02
conversation or horrible
19:05
interview, he would've said,
19:05
this guy doesn't know what
19:07
he's doing and probably
19:07
wouldn't have made that intro.
19:09
So in retrospect, it's a lot of
19:09
little things that happen, but
19:13
there's a lot of preparation
19:13
that went into that happening.
19:17
You know what they say
19:17
about luck it's when
19:19
preparation meets opportunity.
19:20
And so I felt like I was
19:20
prepared for that moment.
19:23
And so the onus was on
19:23
me to make sure that once
19:26
we locked them in, I did
19:26
everything possible to
19:29
highlight that sponsor in
19:29
the best possible light.
19:31
So if you listen to the show
19:31
and this is going on now into
19:34
season five, as we're about
19:34
to launch the very, very
19:37
first thing you hear, Sam is
19:37
not a cold open snippet of
19:40
a guest or the conversation.
19:42
It's me doing an
19:42
ad read for that.
19:46
So as soon as you hit play,
19:46
the first thing I'm talking
19:49
about as a sponsor, everything
19:49
that we do in our socials, we
19:52
tagged the sponsor, Twitter,
19:52
Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram.
19:56
And so we're making sure we give
19:56
them the show notes, prominent
19:59
feedback, every opportunity I
19:59
get to highlight the sponsor.
20:02
I'm doing that.
20:03
And that's why subsequently
20:03
seasons 2, 3, 4, and now going
20:08
into five and six, we've been
20:08
able to continuously continue
20:11
with that same sponsorship
20:11
package with different sponsors.
20:15  Sam
Okay.
20:16
Coming back to it, is this
20:16
sponsor going to renew?
20:19
When does that renewal occur or
20:19
when you switch that to another
20:23
sponsor and in which case, all
20:23
you using anything like Dai so
20:28
that you can actually just back
20:28
catalog all that sponsorship,
20:32  Harry
I think because
20:32
of the price point.
20:34
So we got a season, two
20:34
sponsor, different company
20:37
at a lower price point, and
20:37
then someone came in for a
20:40
smaller run of five episodes.
20:42
And then we got a
20:42
season three spots.
20:45
Our season four sponsor renewed
20:45
a company called cultivated.
20:48
In which again, if you think
20:48
about what I'm doing, even
20:51
on this podcast, even what I
20:51
did at the conference, like
20:53
if I can mention intelligent
20:53
growth solutions, series
20:56
cultivated, these are the
20:56
companies that went out of
20:58
their way to sponsor my show.
21:00
So I always go out of my way to
21:00
do anything I can to spread the
21:04
word about what they're doing,
21:04
what happened with cultivated.
21:06
As we were wrapping up
21:06
season four, I said, you
21:09
get first right of refusal.
21:11
And I shared the link and
21:11
I'm happy to share the link
21:13
with your audience as well.
21:15
Sam of the sponsorship page,
21:15
I built in a tool called note.
21:18
In the tool I mentioned
21:18
here are all the socials
21:22
that we've created just
21:22
to promote this episode.
21:25
And again, going back, I grabbed
21:25
all those socials probably
21:28
about three to six months
21:28
before I launched a show.
21:31
So vertical farm pod, Twitter,
21:31
Instagram, LinkedIn page has
21:35
about 3000 followers now.
21:36
So I knew I needed places
21:36
to promote the show.
21:39
So they see all that.
21:40
They see all the lists
21:40
of past guests now, which
21:43
is not four seasons, 13
21:43
episodes in each season.
21:46
I think about a season
21:46
as a quarter coming
21:48
from corporate 13 weeks.
21:50
So now that allows me to know
21:50
that's a finite window, 13
21:52
episodes, and then I'm already
21:52
thinking of renewal options.
21:55
So cultivated came in and
21:55
season four, and as I went
21:58
back to them and say, Are
21:58
you interested season five?
22:00
He said, actually, we're
22:00
just going to do a package
22:03
for season five and six.
22:04
And so they paid me one
22:04
price to do five and
22:06
six paid ahead of time.
22:08
And in his own words, Sam, he
22:08
said, we're not letting this
22:11
go lice, not likely to sit.
22:13
And what he's said is we're
22:13
hearing folks come to us
22:16
and say, we heard you on
22:16
the podcast and that as a
22:19
podcast, or that's all you
22:19
need to hear to know that
22:21
you're doing something right.
22:23
And just to be fully
22:23
transparent, it gets about
22:25
2000 downloads per episode.
22:27
So imagine if I tried
22:27
to do the CPM model on
22:29
there, I'd be getting $50
22:29
an episode in exchange.
22:33
I feel confident for the
22:33
value in providing them.
22:36
Again, coming from corporate
22:36
salmon, you could probably
22:38
relate to this podcasters
22:38
undersell themselves and the
22:42
value of their platforms.
22:44
I would used to work at
22:44
E-Trade and JP Morgan chase
22:47
in marketing, and I'd know,
22:47
the finance team would come
22:49
down and say, Hey, we're
22:49
getting to the end of the year.
22:51
If you don't use
22:51
it, you lose it.
22:53
And we're talking about
22:53
budgets of a hundred thousand
22:54
dollars, a hundred, $200,000.
22:56
$50,000 is to offer a
22:56
podcast sponsorship in the
23:00
range of like 10 to $15,000.
23:02
It's not a lot, especially
23:02
unlike radio, unlike billboards.
23:06
This is something that you
23:06
can actually see the ROI
23:09
because you'll know people are
23:09
talking about it and you can
23:12
see in all your socials, I'm
23:12
tagging them every single time.
23:15
We've now created the vertical
23:15
farming weekly newsletter.
23:17
So every week I say our sponsors
23:17
cultivated, I now created
23:22
the vertical farming jobs.
23:24
Board and it's a free job board,
23:24
but I put their logo there.
23:27
So now it's all
23:27
these different ways.
23:28
And by the way, all those
23:28
platforms cross promote
23:30
each other as well.
23:31
So again, I'm going
23:31
to bring kicking in.
23:34
And as I think about these
23:34
cross promotional opportunities
23:36
that it's almost developing
23:36
now, what's called the
23:38
vertical farming hub.
23:39
And we're now in talks with
23:39
another job board that's
23:42
specifically for hydroponics
23:42
and the people from cultivated.
23:45
My sponsor said, Hey, you guys
23:45
should talk and we should,
23:47
all three of us go together
23:47
and do different things.
23:49
Let's build up this job board.
23:51
So these alliances and
23:51
these partnerships are
23:53
happening organically.
23:55
And I went to my first vertical
23:55
farmer conference, like last
23:57
month in Las Vegas as well to
23:57
just get to know some of the
24:01
people that had that I had met
24:01
and interviewed on the show.
24:03
It's been a
24:03
fascinating experience.
24:05  Sam
And I guess you'll still be
24:05
dangerous in a few years' time.
24:08
It's not a sell podcast
24:08
is it's not something
24:10
you building to say.
24:11  Harry
I think looking down the
24:11
road, I obviously there's a big
24:14
dependency on me as the host.
24:16
And I think the, one of the
24:16
selling points in one of the
24:19
attractions of the show is
24:19
the fact that I have a cat.
24:23
Origin story conversation
24:23
with these founders and CEOs.
24:27
And I keep getting feedback
24:27
repeatedly from listeners that
24:32
say, I've heard the CEO on other
24:32
shows, but I haven't heard him
24:35
get into his personal story
24:35
like he does with your show.
24:38
And I think maybe it's because
24:38
I'm not the expert in the space.
24:41
I'm not intimidated
24:41
by these names at all.
24:43
And I'm sure there's in
24:43
this space will be like,
24:44
whoa, I can't believe
24:44
you spoke to that person.
24:46
I'm like, just like we always
24:46
say, everyone puts their
24:48
pants on one leg at a time
24:48
and I'm just trying to connect
24:51
with them, human to human.
24:52
So that's been
24:52
really the feedback.
24:54
So obviously if I were
24:54
to think about a way to
24:57
transition now it'd be hiring
24:57
or finding someone who would
25:00
quite honestly, not really
25:00
a subject matter in this
25:02
space, but someone who's
25:02
a really good interviewer
25:05
because that's the key.
25:06
And as I think about that model,
25:06
anyone who's listening naturally
25:09
as an entrepreneur, I'm always
25:09
thinking about new places.
25:11
I keep watching this alternative
25:11
protein cellular protein field,
25:15
which I see the exact same
25:15
thing happening growing just as
25:18
fast, just as much my coming in.
25:21
With this could be applied to so
25:21
many different niche industries.
25:25
If you're laser-focused
25:25
on making sure that you're
25:27
creating a platform that people
25:27
in industry wants to come
25:30
to and get in and listen to.
25:33  Sam
Great advice.
25:33
Thanks Harry.
25:34
Now you mentioned
25:34
you're an entrepreneur.
25:36
You've also got a, another
25:36
company that you've been
25:38
working on called the POTUS
25:38
fair that you've been building.
25:41
What is the, so we
25:43  Harry
have a mutual
25:43
friend, James who started
25:45
pod news, all the pods.
25:47
This is the thing what's
25:47
funny for me as was, I would
25:49
listen to pod news is all
25:49
these companies in this
25:51
space, anything with a pod?
25:52
I think anything with a pod in
25:52
the domain is trying to take
25:54
and by now, but it was funny
25:54
to hear how many companies
25:57
started and then, and closed.
25:59
And I just like out of
25:59
curiosity and just interest
26:02
in the space, I opened up an
26:02
air table and I said, how many
26:04
companies are there in this.
26:06
A hundred companies,
26:06
200, 300, 400.
26:08
Now we're up to 600 companies.
26:10
This is interesting.
26:11
And I started tracking them in
26:11
what little spare time I had.
26:15
And then I said, maybe if
26:15
there's a way for people I
26:18
remember in the past couple
26:18
years ago, people say, which
26:20
has better Lipson or blueberry.
26:22
And inevitably they
26:22
would send people to
26:24
like a Facebook thread.
26:26
And it's not, they're talking
26:26
about it here, go check it out.
26:27
And I'm like, this is not
26:27
unlike the best experience.
26:31
And so in the back of my mind,
26:31
I was like, I think about sites
26:34
like g2.com, yell Trustpilot
26:34
kept terror and all the, all
26:39
these platforms where people
26:39
can get trusted information
26:42
on podcast tools and services.
26:44
And so that was the goal.
26:45
I thankfully I learned a little
26:45
bit of no code tools and I
26:48
launched it and tested it out.
26:49
And I was accepted into
26:49
OnDeck's a no-code cohort.
26:52
It ran for eight weeks and I had
26:52
it as my MVP project to launch.
26:57
So got it out as a prototype
26:57
and thankfully found our
27:00
technical co-founder Brad Nolan.
27:02
And who's got
27:02
experience in the radio.
27:05
And so now we've been slowly
27:05
building it up when we did
27:07
another sort of soft launch at
27:07
podcast movement evolutions.
27:11
And that essentially it's
27:11
a, the POTUS fear.com and
27:14
it's a marketplace initially
27:14
right now, as companies can
27:18
claim the profile, update
27:18
their information and people
27:21
can come and leave ratings
27:21
and reviews on the site.
27:23
next phase would be for actual
27:23
pod-casters to claim their
27:26
services and build what's
27:26
called their podcast stack.
27:30
So then it's a common question.
27:31
Podcasting, what
27:31
tools do you use?
27:32
What services you use, you
27:32
can say, oh, this is my
27:34
stack on the POTUS sphere.
27:35
So lots of ideas.
27:36
Again, it feels adjacent
27:36
to the work I'm doing
27:39
in the podcast space.
27:40
So it doesn't feel like anything
27:40
above and beyond to stretch me
27:44
out of my comfort zone and also
27:44
build on the relationships I've
27:46
been creating and nurturing.
27:48
This space is for the past year.
27:50  Sam
So that sounds like a
27:50
really cool tool that people are
27:53
going to want to be able to use.
27:55
How'd you monetize
27:56  Harry
it, simple sponsorships.
27:57
So right now we're thinking
27:57
about placement on the site.
28:00
So you'll have placement above
28:00
the fold, probably from about
28:02
eight to 12 companies who want
28:02
to do global placement at a
28:05
price point, probably looking
28:05
at $500 a month for that.
28:08
And then if you are a company
28:08
within your specific category,
28:11
one of the things we did
28:11
with the categories is map
28:13
them and align them to what
28:13
Brian Barletta and Miguel,
28:16
and put together in terms
28:16
of the high level categories
28:19
for podcast services.
28:21
So we made sure that we
28:21
were in alignment with that.
28:23
And if you want it to claim for
28:23
your hosting company and you
28:25
want it at a lower price point,
28:25
you can claim to be featured
28:29
in the hosting category.
28:30
Specifically, if you're above
28:30
a sprout, if you're a ellipse.
28:35  Sam
Okay.
28:36
So what is forecast?
28:38
Give us a little bit of a
28:38
deeper dive into what forecast
28:41  Harry
is.
28:42
It's about a year into podcasts
28:42
junkies, but what I did with
28:45
podcast junkies, as I was
28:45
just exiting my nine to five
28:48
and I started the podcast,
28:48
I basically did everything
28:51
interviewed the guest book.
28:52
The guest created the artwork,
28:52
created the website, created
28:56
the marketing materials
28:56
posted on social edited.
28:59
The episode wrote the
28:59
show notes, had the
29:01
communication to the guests.
29:03
I feel your pain.
29:04
I feel your
29:05  Sam
pain every
29:06  Harry
week as most
29:06
podcasters do as well.
29:10
But the beauty of that Sam was
29:10
that I realized all the things
29:14
that make a podcast successful.
29:16
And as I was working with
29:16
a business coach at the
29:19
time, And I remember being
29:19
in that session and saying,
29:22
oh, and it was a high price.
29:25
national mine, I think
29:25
people were paying probably
29:27
two K a month to, to
29:27
be in the mastermind.
29:29
I was like, these people
29:29
understand opportunity
29:31
costs and what an hour
29:31
of their time is worth.
29:34
I want to create an offering
29:34
in podcasting that says,
29:37
Hey, you don't have to
29:37
worry about all the things
29:39
that needs to get done.
29:40
We'll just do it all for you.
29:41
I remember my first client
29:41
came from that mastermind
29:44
and I said, can you do this?
29:45
I basically said yes to
29:45
everything he asked, because
29:47
I knew that's what he
29:47
wants to get off his plate.
29:49
Can you do this?
29:50
Will you do this?
29:51
Can you write the show notes?
29:52
Can you post it to my site?
29:53
Can you do the graphics?
29:54
And I was like, yes, because
29:54
I was creating the offer.
29:57
And I just realized he just the
29:57
people who are successful to
30:00
get to the point where they are,
30:00
they ask not how can I do it?
30:04
They ask who can do this?
30:06
And that's the basis of
30:06
how forecast was built.
30:09
And then we've been doing
30:09
that since 2015, just
30:11
full service done for
30:12  Sam
you agency.
30:13
So that's really interesting
30:13
how it just understanding if
30:16
I came to you as forecasts.
30:18
And I said, look, Hey,
30:18
we've got pot lab.
30:20
We'll have to do all this stuff.
30:22
I have to do my show notes
30:22
and I have to edit it.
30:24
And I do all these things,
30:24
roughly ballpark, what sort
30:28
of pricing am I looking at?
30:29
Because again, it goes
30:29
back to what you said
30:31
about vertical farming.
30:32
They have to balance that
30:32
against what sponsorship I
30:35
have and how much time I have.
30:37
So if I've got some sponsors
30:37
and I haven't got sufficient
30:40
time, then I off trade that
30:40
with somebody like yourself.
30:43
But how do you price that?
30:45  Harry
Yeah, one of the early
30:45
questions I have is who's the
30:48
audience, what your call to
30:48
action is what you want to
30:52
listen or to do as a result of
30:52
having listened to the episode.
30:55
How are you looking to
30:55
monetize the podcast?
30:57
Because it could be
30:57
a hobby show, right?
30:59
And maybe our services
30:59
are probably going to be
31:01
a bit too much for you.
31:03
But if you're looking at this
31:03
as an integral part of your
31:05
business and to grow your
31:05
business, I would then ask
31:08
what's an average lifetime
31:08
value of a customer for you,
31:12
because I'm thinking about
31:12
these things, because I want
31:14
you to think about clearly
31:14
like how you're moving people
31:18
and making the podcast and
31:18
integral part of your marketing.
31:20
You can have it as a hobby
31:20
and you could be independently
31:23
wealthy and just have all
31:23
these nice little things you
31:26
do just for the fun of it.
31:27
But most people
31:27
are not like that.
31:29
And they're conscious of the
31:29
investment they're making in
31:32
the podcast and want to see some
31:32
better return for some, it could
31:35
be just a marketing play or
31:35
just awareness, which is fine.
31:39
And some of the bigger companies
31:39
with marketing dollars,
31:41
they just want presence.
31:43
But typically we budget
31:43
three to four K U S a month.
31:46
If we're going to be doing
31:46
everything for you and
31:48
that's everything, including
31:48
all the production, the
31:51
consulting is built into that.
31:52
So we have reporting built
31:52
into that graphics video grams.
31:56
There's now podcasts
31:56
because of the availability
31:58
of tools like squad.
32:00
High quality video is available.
32:02
So people are now asking
32:02
for video edits, snippets
32:05
of the videos, which
32:05
we're calling video grams.
32:07
So there's a lot
32:07
of moving parts.
32:08
And so we try to make sure
32:08
we're creating something
32:11
that gets you visibility.
32:13
If you look at the podcast index
32:13
close to 4 million podcasts, a
32:17
lot of competition in the space.
32:19
So I think we want you
32:19
to be able to speak to
32:21
an individual audio.
32:23
In a way that gets their
32:23
attention and right.
32:26
People are scrolling
32:26
through social media.
32:27
So they need media that
32:27
stops them in their tracks,
32:31
which is why we like
32:31
the use of audio grams.
32:33
Because instead of captions
32:33
at the bottom, you can read
32:34
them out karaoke style, and
32:34
we're just trying to be doing
32:38
as good of a job as possible
32:38
to grab people's attention.
32:40
There's so much competition
32:40
for people's attention now,
32:42
and it when, especially when
32:42
it comes to podcasts and so
32:44
we have to work extra hard.
32:46
And if you saw the Edison
32:46
research report, it's
32:49
the first time there,
32:49
the number of deaths.
32:51
So it's, I think just being
32:51
conscious of how many things
32:54
people have competing for
32:54
their attention and where
32:57
podcasts can confirm.
32:59  Sam
And had some
32:59
research from Todd works.
33:01
It was great.
33:01
And yes, you're right.
33:02
There was a slight blip.
33:04
Has people went back to work,
33:04
but also to the highlights that
33:07
came out of them, maybe you
33:07
can give some commentary too.
33:11
One was essential.
33:12
Use of video into YouTube
33:12
as a discovery platform.
33:15
And the other one
33:15
was the snippets.
33:18
As you mentioned, the audio
33:18
grams, the rise of Tik TOK as
33:21
a platform, maybe for podcasts
33:21
as to promote themselves
33:23
in, what are your thoughts
33:23
on YouTube and Tik TOK?
33:26  Harry
It's been big fans
33:26
of YouTube since early days.
33:30
It's often repeated to stick.
33:31
It's the number
33:31
two search engine.
33:33
Even with podcasts junkies,
33:33
it's something I saw early on.
33:36
Like we would post even it's
33:36
a bit cringe-worthy for most
33:39
podcasts, but the audio with a
33:39
static image on YouTube would,
33:43
you'd be surprised if you Google
33:43
some of my past guests names
33:46
and the word podcast junkies
33:46
their appearance on my show.
33:50
We'll show up, even now, if you
33:50
just Google the word podcast
33:53
junkies, probably 6, 7, 8
33:53
out of the top 10 listings
33:58
are related to my show.
33:59
It'll be the listing
33:59
on the show on Spotify.
34:02
It'll be pod chaser.
34:04
It'll be YouTube.
34:05
It'll be several of the
34:05
YouTube posts, because if you
34:08
think about the commonality,
34:08
these are all sites that are
34:11
getting a lot of traffic.
34:12
And so I'm always conscious.
34:14
It's what we do for clients.
34:15
And I tell people this all the
34:15
time, be on all the platforms
34:18
from a publishing stamps.
34:20
Every single direct duty,
34:20
you have access to make
34:22
sure you're on there.
34:24
You don't have to promote
34:24
it there all the time.
34:26
It's hard for you to figure
34:26
out which one of these sites
34:29
they're going to be doing
34:29
their own work to get high
34:31
SEO rankings and pod chasers.
34:33
And example has done
34:33
a great job of this.
34:35
When we publish those
34:35
requirements, we'll go into
34:37
the pod chaser and add their
34:37
guests on as a credit on
34:40
patisserie, because I want them
34:40
to be visible if people are
34:42
searching for a famous name.
34:44
So I think as podcasters,
34:44
we can't really rest and
34:49
there's always new ways for
34:49
discoverability, but I think
34:53
it's really interesting to
34:53
see what YouTube is doing.
34:55
They're going to be ingesting
34:55
RSS feeds, which is interesting
34:57
to see how that's going to work.
34:58
But I think we'd be remiss
34:58
if we slept on paying
35:02
attention to what they're
35:02
doing in the space, I feel
35:04
it's going to be disruptive.
35:06
They've supported podcasting in
35:06
terms of reach and availability.
35:10
And I think that's
35:10
just going to increase.
35:12
Whatever we call it.
35:13
I know that there's people
35:13
who have shows on YouTube that
35:16
don't have an RSS feed, but
35:16
they still to their audience,
35:18
they say, listen to my podcasts.
35:20
So it's semantics.
35:21
And so I think the short
35:21
answer is for the podcasts,
35:26
make sure that they have
35:26
a YouTube strategy built
35:29
into their marketing plan.
35:30
It's going to be
35:30
really important.
35:32  Sam
Podcast doesn't cover
35:32
what it actually is evolving
35:36
into, but equally we use
35:36
the terms Hoover to describe
35:41
we're vacuum cleaner and we
35:41
use Googled Stripe search
35:44
trend and they become.
35:47
Synonymous terms that people
35:47
understand immediately.
35:49
So when you say it's a podcast,
35:49
most people understand it's
35:52
a talking show of nature
35:52
with audio and or video.
35:58
So I think we're rebranding it.
36:00
Unless someone comes up with
36:00
an amazing name over to you,
36:02
Harry, unless someone comes
36:02
up with an amazing name.
36:05
I think we're going to be
36:05
stuck with the word podcast
36:08
anyway, video or not.
36:09
Look, Harry, thank you
36:09
so much for your time.
36:11
Tell everyone where they can get
36:11
hold of all of these things or
36:14
where can they go for full cars?
36:16
Where can they go per vertical
36:16
farm on remind them where they
36:19
can go for the POTUS fare?
36:20  Harry
So the short
36:20
answer is full cast.com.
36:25
Forward slash HD bio.
36:28
It's a page I created with so
36:28
many moving parts in there.
36:31
Even got my SoundCloud
36:31
DJ page on there.
36:33
If you want to go that far
36:33
back, that's a great place
36:37
to see everything that's
36:37
happening and obviously
36:39
full cast that CEO for the
36:39
agency, but it'll list there.
36:43
Everything that's happening
36:43
with vertical farming
36:45
podcast, junkies the
36:45
POTUS sphere as well.
36:47
So as an entrepreneur, lots of
36:47
things in motion, but it's a
36:50
space that I just become a part
36:50
of my identity, so to speak.
36:54
And since 2014, it's an
36:54
incredible community.
36:57
And as we just demonstrated
36:57
at podcasts within evolutions,
37:00
it's a really great group
37:00
of folks who are really
37:03
genuinely interested in growing
37:03
the space, which is really
37:07
comforting and reassuring
37:10  Sam
Ari.
37:10
You're not coming to London
37:10
for the London podcast chair
37:13
and you're off to, the other
37:13
podcast movement podcast.
37:18  Harry
Yes,
37:19  Sam
but maybe I'll
37:19
see you before.
37:20
If not, I'll see you in
37:20
LA for certain next year.
37:24  Harry
So next year
37:24
it's convenient.
37:25  Sam
Vegas, baby.
37:26
What happens there?
37:27
Stays there.
37:28
That's not very good for
37:28
podcasts is to talk about,
37:30  Harry
Sam it's, it was a
37:30
pleasure actually meeting
37:32
you in person after and
37:32
being a fan from a distance.
37:35
And just the way things
37:35
worked out, we got to spend.
37:38
Chunk of time together
37:38
and meet some new folks
37:40
and new faces as well.
37:41
So I'm grateful
37:42  James
Harry Duran.
37:43
He's a very nice man.
37:44
I first met him at the NAB
37:44
show in Las Vegas about what
37:48
four years, five years ago.
37:49
and he was, trying to get
37:49
me to, make the systems
37:53
that run pod news, used
37:53
on other podcasts as well.
37:56
And, I keep on me classed
37:56
maybe at one of these days,
37:59
I should probably do this.
38:02
But anyway, really
38:02
good to hear that.
38:03
And, and he's a good man
38:03
and has been working in the
38:07
podcast world for long time.
38:09  Sam
I'm going to preface
38:09
the next story with a cost.
38:11
We do like you, we really to,
38:11
but you've been a little bit
38:16
naughty again, or you continue
38:16
to be a little bit naughty.
38:20
but let's start off before we
38:20
tell you why you've been naughty
38:23
again with your annual report.
38:25
you saw the company, massively
38:25
grow with a sales growth of 73%.
38:30
So congratulations.
38:31
and while its operations in the
38:31
UK and Sweden became profitable,
38:34
the company overall still lost
38:34
300 million Swedish krona.
38:39
Or 31 million us dollars.
38:41
it's almost double
38:41
the loss of last year.
38:44
So James, what's going on that
38:44
they seem to be growing fast.
38:47
They seem to be profitable
38:47
in certain areas, but
38:49
overall they're losing money.
38:50
They've
38:51  James
not made money yet
38:51
in terms of a company.
38:54
they're in a very, heavy
38:54
growth mode, which is, good
38:58
to see the annual report is
38:58
a really good read actually.
39:01
And if you're interested
39:01
in the podcast business as
39:03
a whole, if you're wanting
39:03
some slides for your pitch
39:06
decks, if you're wanting some
39:06
numbers, then it's got a load
39:10
of detail in there, which
39:10
is, really well put together.
39:14
In there, Ross Adams who's
39:14
the CEO talks about entering
39:17
a new era in podcasting.
39:19
he's very bullish of course,
39:19
of about the open nature
39:22
of podcasting using RSS.
39:24
and it says that is most
39:24
certainly where the future is.
39:26
he's also talking though about,
39:26
different advertising going
39:30
forward, pointing out that,
39:30
podcast advertising has always
39:33
been pretty good and private
39:33
and is talking about targeting
39:38
conversations, not users.
39:39
and so one of the things that
39:39
he's talking about is a privacy
39:44
safe initiative from the company
39:44
dubbed conversational targeting,
39:47
And really trying to underline
39:47
the fact that, the platform
39:51
doesn't necessarily, attract
39:51
people, but instead is tracking
39:56
individual, subjects that
39:56
are talked about in podcasts.
39:59
So that was interesting
39:59
seeing that.
40:02
but it's a really good report
40:02
and well-worth, look at one
40:05
thing I did notice though,
40:05
is that their total amount
40:07
of listens is slowing.
40:09
So they're still
40:09
growing, of course.
40:11
they're still growing the
40:11
amount of people who are
40:13
listening to their shows, but
40:13
the total amount of listens
40:17
that they get has actually
40:17
halved in growth from last year.
40:21
is the something to worry
40:21
about that I don't know
40:24
or is it a cars just
40:24
reaching a certain size?
40:27
I don't know, but,
40:27
interesting to, see a little
40:29
bit of a slowdown in terms
40:29
of their growth anyway.
40:32  Sam
So it all seems
40:32
pretty well at a.
40:35
But a taco crumb
40:35
tweeted this week.
40:38
He's still not happy with them.
40:40
he got a.
40:42
Email from them, this
40:42
week, thankfully it didn't
40:45
start with hello friend.
40:46
It started with high podcaster.
40:48
he said, Hey, cars cannot decide
40:48
if they spamming you or emailing
40:51
you because you opted in.
40:53
You can guess I did not opt into
40:53
their mailings idiots, spammers.
40:58
So Todd was not happy.
41:01  James
Is.
41:03
Exactly.
41:04
no, Todd, isn't happy.
41:06
And you can understand
41:06
why I've asked in a few
41:08
places for the spam.
41:10
The day cast is, sending
41:10
out to be sent to me.
41:13
And what I've discovered
41:13
from that is actually some
41:16
quite interesting stuff.
41:17
They are going, against
41:17
a specific podcast hosts
41:21
and actually the contents
41:21
of their emails is.
41:25
Quite nicely, combative
41:25
against those podcast hosts.
41:29
So in the state of, blueberry,
41:29
for example, which Todd Cochran
41:33
owns, of course, then, a cast
41:33
are sending blueberry customers
41:37
things saying here's how to
41:37
move from blueberry to a cast.
41:41
Here are the benefits of
41:41
doing so, they'd done the
41:44
same thing with, other podcast
41:44
hosts where they've actually
41:47
realized, okay, a cast has
41:47
no cap on this podcast.
41:50
Hosts might have a cap.
41:51
And so therefore we're
41:51
going to promote that bit.
41:54
So they're doing some
41:54
very heavy marketing.
41:56
The only problem
41:56
is it's illegal.
41:58
and, because you can't do
41:58
Direct marketing in this way.
42:02
And the particular emails that
42:02
they are sending both have
42:06
bogus copy, pasted stuff from
42:06
other emails on the bottom
42:10
of them, don't have the right
42:10
information for the CAN-SPAM
42:14
law in the U S and it's
42:14
not the best way to proceed.
42:18
Anyway, I've asked the company
42:18
an number of questions about
42:22
these emails and I will be
42:22
following it up, but, again,
42:26
I think I edited out, from
42:26
last week's episode where
42:28
I was basically saying,
42:28
please say casts stop.
42:31
but I don't think I'll edit
42:31
it out of this week's episode.
42:33
Please.
42:34
Add cast, stop.
42:36
Be a good thing.
42:37
Now talking
42:37  Sam
about Ross Adams,
42:37
he will be in London.
42:41
On the 25th of May, at the
42:41
London podcast show, as one
42:45
of the keynotes, talking
42:45
about open for business and
42:48
open for creators, I'm sure
42:48
that if you fancy asking
42:51
him about this spamming
42:51
issue, he won't be so key.
42:55
but that said, I am looking
42:55
forward to that talk cause
42:58
he's actually got some really
42:58
great guests on the stage.
43:00
He's got Fern cotton
43:00
from happy place.
43:02
Gary, Lynn's go from goal
43:02
hanging up productions,
43:05
on stage with him.
43:06
And he's got Lizzie
43:06
pilot, senior VP of
43:09
marketing communications.
43:11
So I think there'll be quite
43:11
an interesting talk as well.
43:14  James
no, I think
43:14
that'll be really good.
43:15
Lizzy is in charge of the
43:15
A-class brand and it's Lizzie.
43:18
That really should be
43:18
more concerned about what
43:21
all of this spamming is
43:21
doing to the ICAST brand.
43:23
But I think that should be
43:23
a really interesting thing.
43:25
So that's coming up at the
43:25
podcast show London in, may,
43:28
looking forward to that and
43:30  Sam
congratulations
43:30
to Sarah Jackson.
43:32
On a new promotion to
43:32
global head of PR had a car.
43:35
So I'm sure that she'll
43:35
be listening intently.
43:37
I'm sure she will.
43:38
Now, more brain drain
43:38
from the BBC this week.
43:42
it seems mark Kermode
43:42
and summer mayor.
43:45
We talked about leaving the BBC.
43:47
it seems that they've
43:47
found their new home James.
43:50
It's going to be at
43:50
so many productions.
43:52  James
It is.
43:52
And actually it's not their
43:52
new home because it's the
43:54
home that they always were on.
43:56
they're show.
43:57
Produced for the BBC
43:57
buy something else.
44:00
which of course owned by Sony.
44:02
And what they've basically done
44:02
is they've taken their show,
44:05
as an independent show now.
44:07
So it's now called
44:07
Kermode and Mayo's take
44:10
it launches in early may.
44:12
You can also watch that
44:12
live at the podcast,
44:14
show London as well.
44:15
they'll also be an additional
44:15
page show, which is called take
44:18
two, which is very clever on
44:18
apple podcasts, which is a nice,
44:22
the BBC doing their typical
44:22
job of treating their people
44:25
like dirt by canceling Simon
44:25
Mayo's, security pass while
44:29
he was still in the building.
44:30
So we had to, ask for help
44:30
to get out after 40 years
44:35
working with the corporation,
44:35
what a company to work for.
44:37
but anyway, really interesting
44:37
to see that, there was
44:40
quite a lot of debate.
44:41
At, podcast movement evolutions,
44:41
and on some of the, social
44:46
groups that I'm in about
44:46
whether the BBC would forward
44:49
the RSS feed and the answer
44:49
is a most certain, no, they're
44:52
not going to be doing that.
44:53
that's why you'll probably
44:53
see quite a lot of advertising
44:56
for Kermode and Mayo's take,
44:56
on things like social media.
44:59
I'm certainly seeing.
45:01
Because they need to keep
45:01
their audience aware that
45:03
they have moved and changed.
45:05
but, so many congratulations
45:05
to them, funded by a cast
45:09
as well, who study music,
45:09
entertainment work with.
45:11
here's hoping that they
45:11
have a long and happy
45:14
relationship, on that platform.
45:16  Sam
So when Peter crouches
45:16
podcast moved from the BBC to
45:19
AA cast last week, the RSS feed
45:19
didn't forward either, but the
45:23
BBC did allow them to promote
45:23
the new feed in a special 20
45:27
minute advert in the old face.
45:29
According to mark,
45:30  James
it's nice at the BBC,
45:30
isn't it giving cast to 20
45:34
minute, ad in their feed.
45:37
Wonder how much
45:37
that, that cost zero.
45:42  Sam
Now it does bring up
45:42
the, sticky issue or in future
45:45
contract negotiations, should
45:45
content creators insist that
45:50
they take the RSS feed with
45:50
them, I guess who owns the RSS?
45:54
I
45:54  James
think that
45:54
there's so many privacy
45:57
issues in terms of this.
45:58
I think there are
45:58
two things here.
46:00
Actually.
46:00
I think firstly, the BBC
46:00
probably doesn't have the
46:03
technology to actually do a.
46:05
Relocation in their RSS feed,
46:05
knowing the BBC as I do.
46:09
but I also think that
46:09
secondly, there's a lot
46:11
of, privacy issues, with,
46:11
just forwarding an RSS fees
46:15
to a commercial company.
46:17
so I can understand why the
46:17
BBC is not particularly
46:21
keen to do that.
46:22
but, I it should be part of
46:22
a contract as you go forward.
46:26
What happens when my
46:26
contract finishes do you
46:29
forward the RSS feed?
46:31
you know, you've mentioned
46:31
Peter crunch, leaving the BBC,
46:33
Mayo and commode leaving the
46:33
BBC Dan Walker, who was a host
46:37
of BBC breakfast there a TV
46:37
show, is, leaving and moving
46:41
to, channel five as well.
46:43
and basically.
46:44
you used to end up joining
46:44
the BBC 10 years ago because
46:49
the BBC gave you distribution
46:49
gave you a coverage of
46:53
a tremendous audience.
46:54
You don't need the BBC anymore.
46:56
And I think that's what
46:56
we're seeing in the UK.
46:59
there's no requirement for
46:59
the BBC to really exist and
47:02
to put itself in between your
47:02
relationship with your fans.
47:05
and, I think this is a severe
47:05
problem for broadcasters all
47:10
over the world that they're
47:10
beginning to see people,
47:13
jumping off their platforms
47:13
and just using a platform
47:17
that they themselves own.
47:19
Sean Keyvani, was a,
47:19
breakfast show presenter
47:21
for radio six music, and he
47:21
has been, happily selling
47:24
access to a music radio show.
47:26
Not quite sure how the
47:26
music licensing works,
47:28
probably shouldn't delve
47:28
too deeply into that.
47:30
But anyway, so
47:30
he's doing that on.
47:32
Patrion and seems to be doing
47:32
quite nicely, seems to be
47:36
earning thousands of pounds
47:36
a month, from, doing that.
47:39  Sam
it reminds me of
47:39
the, power balance change
47:42
that occurred in football.
47:43
many years ago, they were very
47:43
limited in their wage caps and
47:48
they had fundamentally slave
47:48
like control by the clubs
47:52
where they were under contract.
47:53
They couldn't move,
47:53
they couldn't change.
47:55
And then there was the Bosman
47:55
ruling, which freed them up.
47:58
And then obviously since
47:58
then agents came into the
48:00
business and subsequently
48:00
certain top players are on
48:04
humongous amounts of money,
48:04
like a million pounds a week or
48:07
half a million pounds a week.
48:08
this movement here, I feel from
48:08
BBC, certainly maybe indicative
48:13
of the industry where the
48:13
control of distribution of
48:16
content has now been broken.
48:18
and.
48:19
I guess talent or stars,
48:19
not just from the BBC, but
48:24
worldwide are beginning
48:24
to see how they can reach
48:26
their audience themselves.
48:27
I suppose I've called
48:27
it DTF director fans.
48:29
And I think this is the way
48:29
that most celebrities are going
48:32
to start to look at it and
48:32
say, actually, I can get to my
48:36
audience myself now without the
48:36
need of a distribution network.
48:39  James
And I think one
48:39
surprising thing is that the
48:41
BBC has just added themselves
48:41
to Podtrac, which nobody was
48:45
expecting least of all me.
48:46
what they've done very
48:46
cautiously is that they have.
48:50
declined to share their
48:50
global download figure with
48:54
a pod track, but they are
48:54
there in terms of us unique
48:57
monthly audience, they've
48:57
scraped in a number 20 in
49:00
the top 20 us publishers.
49:02
but interesting to see their
49:02
size 2.7 million people.
49:06
They reach every single month
49:06
in the U S with their podcasts,
49:13
just to compare that with other
49:13
broadcasters, w NYC is 3.9.
49:19
So I'm half as big again.
49:22
And NPR is 21.5 million,
49:22
in comparison to the
49:26
BBC's 2.7 million.
49:28
So 10 times larger.
49:29
I find that quite fascinating,
49:29
because that's both the BBC for
49:33
the first time making themselves
49:33
available in a ranker.
49:36
Type, but also a cast for the
49:36
first time making at least
49:41
part of their data available
49:41
in a ranker of this type two.
49:44
that was an interesting
49:44
surprise to spot them
49:47
on, the pod tract chart
49:49  Sam
moving on.
49:50
it seems, we talked about it
49:50
and we keep talking about it.
49:52
There is no excuse now
49:52
for every podcast to have
49:56
a transcript within it.
49:57
And we highlighted that
49:57
Spotify might be bringing
50:00
in transcriptions.
50:02
But what about apple, James?
50:04
Do you think now apple against
50:04
be bringing in anything
50:07
to do with transcriptions?
50:08  James
I've not heard anything
50:08
around Spotify bringing
50:11
in full transcriptions.
50:12
What they are doing is that
50:12
they are doing some automated,
50:15
closed captions in their app.
50:17
and I think one of the
50:17
important things here
50:19
is that closed captions
50:19
are different from
50:21
transcripts, close captions.
50:22
are those things that appear,
50:22
on the screen, that coincide
50:25
with the audio that you listened
50:25
to and those are important.
50:29
but at the end of the day,
50:29
the podcast has, should be
50:32
in control of what those
50:32
say as well as a more
50:36
edited polished transcripts.
50:37
that's what the podcast
50:37
index, namespace has
50:41
been working on Spotify.
50:42
Certainly isn't doing any
50:42
of the work around that,
50:44
which is a real shame.
50:46
And that means that it's
50:46
actually impossible for
50:49
us to give our corrected
50:49
transcripts to Spotify
50:53
for them to use, because
50:53
there's no way of doing that.
50:56
Similarly for Amazon
50:56
music, similarly you
50:58
know, apple doesn't have
50:58
any of these transcripts,
51:00
and so on and so forth.
51:01
it's a real surprise to me
51:01
that no one is none of the
51:05
big podcast apps yet are
51:05
taking advantage of the
51:09
new transcripts namespace.
51:12
It appears.
51:13
I've been, work, which, answers
51:13
a lot of the questions around,
51:17
transcripts, but, one would
51:17
hope that Spotify and apple
51:21
and other people will implement
51:21
this specification rather than
51:25
just rolling their own slightly
51:25
poor, automated transcripts.
51:29
That would be a
51:29
mistake, I think.
51:30
We include a
51:31  Sam
transcript with this
51:31
podcast, but, I noted this
51:35
week that headliner has
51:35
launched a new transcript
51:38
service as well called.
51:40
Yeah.
51:40  James
I mean, it's a bit
51:40
more of a descriptive thing.
51:43
it's basically headliners
51:43
answer to descript and
51:46
it looks rather good.
51:47
editing audio in the same way as
51:47
you would a word document, you
51:49
know, all of that kind of stuff.
51:51
I haven't tried it yet.
51:52
you've spoken to Neil at
51:52
a headliner, haven't you?
51:55  Sam
Yeah.
51:55
they basically feel that this is
51:55
a service they want to launch.
51:58
again, I did try it.
52:00
It's a little bit basic to
52:00
begin with, but it's a beater.
52:03
but it works very well.
52:04
As you said, it is very
52:04
descript, and again, it'll come
52:07
down to pricing eventually what
52:07
they price this service out.
52:11
But again, if it's, reasonably
52:11
priced, I expect, most podcasts
52:14
who can just put their, feed
52:14
into it and it will produce
52:17
a very good transcript that
52:17
you can upload, or at least
52:20
a transcript that can be
52:20
useful enough for somebody who
52:23  James
needs it.
52:23
that would be really helpful.
52:25
And there are actually a bunch
52:25
of free transcripts or ways to
52:28
produce free transcripts out
52:28
there, which is really good.
52:32
And the benefit actually of
52:32
the podcast namespace is that
52:35
the transcript can be hosted
52:35
by a third party company.
52:39
And that third party company
52:39
could be a commercial company
52:41
if you wanted it to be as well.
52:43
So it's an opportunity out
52:43
there for somebody that wants
52:46
to jump onto this spec and
52:46
go, I would like to earn money
52:49
out of this specification
52:49
by essentially helping
52:52
podcasters, host transcripts.
52:55
so I think there's,
52:55
real, opportunity.
52:57
So if there are some budding
52:57
entrepreneurs having a
52:59
lesson, then that's a
52:59  Sam
plan
53:00
quick news.
53:00
Now, we've got quite a few
53:00
little stories that I just
53:03
wonder to highlight for people.
53:05
So the first one is, the pod
53:05
Sage himself, Dave Jones has
53:09
written a vision document.
53:10
what is podcasting
53:10
today all about?
53:13
I think Dave, on his own
53:13
show with Adam Curry was
53:16
talking about, there is some
53:16
confusion out there as to what.
53:20
The podcast index.
53:21
And what is the
53:21
podcast namespace?
53:23
So he's written a
53:23
document about it.
53:25  James
it's it's a good piece of
53:25
work, basically explaining that,
53:28
podcasting 2.0 is a vision,
53:28
but it's also the standards
53:32
to achieve that vision.
53:33
And he talks about what
53:33
that vision might be.
53:37
I think one of my criticisms
53:37
about podcasting 2.0 or
53:40
the podcast namespace or.
53:42
whatever it is that we're
53:42
supposed to be calling this
53:44
is that because it's been
53:44
very organically, driven and
53:47
has grown very organically.
53:49
it means that, some of the
53:49
wording around it, some of
53:52
the language that we use
53:52
around it, isn't really as
53:54
precise and as clear enough.
53:56
And, it's really helpful to
53:56
see Dave doing that work
53:59
well worth a read that you'll
53:59
find in your show notes.
54:03
if you use power press,
54:03
which has blooper is a rather
54:05
lovely WordPress plugin
54:05
to enable you to publish,
54:09
podcasts, then power press
54:09
version 9.0 has been released.
54:13
It's got improved onboarding
54:13
and a bunch of other additional
54:16
tools in there as well.
54:18
And you can host your podcast
54:18
anyway, you don't have to
54:20
host it with a blueberry.
54:22
so a worth a peak,
54:22
if you use word.
54:25
And if you're
54:25  Sam
hosting your show on
54:25
transistor, they've updated
54:29
their website builder as well.
54:31
So again, you can
54:31
now add extra pages.
54:34
It's great for adding
54:34
sponsor pages or about pages.
54:37  James
also the podcast
54:37
hosts has been busy.
54:40
They have launched something
54:40
called the personalized
54:42