The last word in podcasting news. Every Thursday, James Cridland from Podnews in Australia and Sam Sethi, from 'Podcast First' River Radio in the UK, review and analyse some of the week's top podcasting news from around the world. They also interview some of the biggest names making the news. Sponsored by Buzzsprout and SquadCast.
https://podland.news
episode 70: Internationalise in order to profitise or use swap promos but never ever plagiarise. [transcript]
Sponsor
- Buzzsprout - last week, 3,686 people started a podcast with Buzzsprout
Special Guest
- Lauren Passell - CEO TinkMedia talks about why she has launched a podcast swap database for podcasters interested in setting up a promo swap for their podcast.
Notes & Links:
- An Anchor podcast called Soldier of Misfortune has been accused of being a shameless rip-off by Brendan I Koerner, a journalist for The Atlantic . He accuses the podcaster, Jesse Rapaport, of knowingly stealing his work.
- Spotify says that they’ll continue losing money from their podcast acquisitions in 2022, but podcasting should begin to make a profit at a time “not too far away”.
- Podcast host Anchor’s creator interface is now available in 35 different languages. Of the top five podcast hosts, Omny Studio is in six languages, Spreaker is available in four; Buzzsprout and Libsyn only offer English, though YouTube is in 82 different languages
- Apple Podcasts has now added follower metrics for all your shows in Apple Podcasts Connect
- Advertisers should move money away from podcasts that don’t provide transcripts, says Bryan Barletta in Sounds Profitable
- Spotify Live went live in the US.
- iHeartMedia is making an NFT-based podcast network
- Podchaser has launched an API for sponsors and ad spends
00:01 James
Welcome to Ponte
00:01
lands the last word
00:02
in podcasting news.
00:03
It's Thursday, the
00:03
14th of April, 2022.
00:06
I am James Cridland, the
00:06
editor of pod news.net.
00:09
And I
00:09
am
00:09 Sam
Sam Sethi, the
00:09
end of river radio.
00:11
Hi,
00:12 Lauren
my name is
00:12
Lauren Paso and I'm the
00:14
founder of tank media.
00:16
And I'm going to be on later
00:16
to talk about the promo swap
00:20
database that I just launched.
00:22 James
She will Podland is
00:22
sponsored by Buzzsprout podcast.
00:25
Hosting made easy
00:25
last week, 3,686.
00:30
People started a podcast
00:30
with Buzzsprout and you
00:32
can too@buzzsprout.com.
00:35
And if you can use chapters
00:35
in your podcast app, then
00:38
Buzzsprout supports those.
00:40
And so do we, and we
00:41 Sam
support
00:41
transcripts as well.
00:43 James
Oh yes.
00:43
And transcripts too.
00:44
And they look very smart on
00:44
the Buzzsprout website, uh,
00:47
that, uh, you get given.
00:49
If you are hosting with
00:49
them, you can see that,
00:52
uh, portland.news.
00:54 Sam
Now, first story up, James.
00:56
I'm cur it seems have
00:56
done a shameless rip-off
01:01
and anchor podcast called
01:01
soldier of misfortune has
01:03
been accused of being a
01:03
shameless rip-off by Brendan
01:07
kroner, a journalist for the
01:07
Atlantic who wrote the story.
01:10
His piece took him
01:10
nine years to report.
01:12
He says, and he accuses
01:12
the podcaster, Jess
01:15
Rappaport of knowing.
01:17
Stealing his work and
01:17
even pronouncing the name
01:19
of the main character
01:19
wrong throughout James.
01:22
What's the
01:23
story.
01:24 James
And I should say,
01:24
I'm pronouncing the name
01:26
of the main character wrong
01:26
throughout is quite hilarious.
01:29
Although frankly, I have
01:29
no idea, Brendan, how you
01:32
pronounce your surname.
01:33
Is it Kona?
01:34
Kerner?
01:35
I frankly haven't any idea.
01:37
And so of course I was there on
01:37
the pod news podcast yesterday
01:40
going oh, w um, I'm probably
01:40
pronouncing this wrong too,
01:43
but yes, it's one of those
01:43
things where someone, uh,
01:48
read a article and thought,
01:48
wow, this is a great story.
01:51
I'd like to turn this into
01:51
a podcast, uh, roads to
01:54
Brendan, and said, I'm going
01:54
to turn this into a podcast.
01:56
I'll give you a mention.
01:57
So that's okay.
01:58
It's not really how it works.
02:00
And, uh, has, um, banged
02:00
it up on, uh, on an anchor.
02:05
And, uh, yeah, it's
02:05
not a good look.
02:07
Brendan Kerner is, um,
02:07
quite irritated by it.
02:11
I think because this is the
02:11
fourth, I think podcasts
02:15
that, um, he's basically
02:15
had his work stolen for.
02:19
Um, so I don't think that
02:19
that's particularly, uh, good.
02:23
Uh, and so he is there asking,
02:23
uh, on Twitter, perhaps we
02:27
can start a Frank discussion
02:27
about what constitutes
02:29
fair use for podcasters.
02:31
I think, uh, it's called
02:31
copyright law and I
02:35
think Brendan, if you,
02:35
or the Atlantic world.
02:37
Talk to, um, a lawyer then
02:37
you'd have quite a good case,
02:42
um, for taking action against,
02:42
uh, this particular person.
02:46
Um, but, uh, yeah, it's not
02:46
the first time that we've
02:49
seen plagiarism and I don't
02:49
think it will be the last time
02:52 Sam
as well.
02:53
So realistically,
02:53
let's be clear.
02:55
This isn't really ankus fault.
02:57
Is it?
02:57
No, I mean, anchor is just
02:57
a free hosting platform.
03:02
I mean, It's not up to
03:02
there, my guest check every
03:05
podcast in this sense.
03:06
I mean, but, um,
03:09 James
no, I don't,
03:09
I don't think it's
03:10
anchor's fault at all.
03:12
I think it's, it's notable
03:12
that this podcast is on
03:15
anchor because quite a few
03:15
pirated podcasts in the
03:19
past have been on anchor.
03:21
And I think that's what you get.
03:22
If you run a free podcast, host,
03:22
the blame is pretty firmly at
03:26
the door of Jesse Rappaport.
03:29
Uh, who I comment, I contacted
03:29
for comment, although obviously,
03:32
uh, he, uh, nor, uh, Brendan
03:32
have, uh, come back, uh, to me.
03:37
Um, but, uh, yeah, it's just,
03:37
it's just, um, you know,
03:41
not a, not a great look for
03:41
anybody to just basically pinch
03:45
somebody else's work and, uh,
03:45
make some audio out of it.
03:49 Sam
Now, a few months back,
03:49
we talked about a wreckage
03:53
surveys, podcasts that was
03:53
being plagiarized as well.
03:57
Did anything come up?
03:59 James
No, I'm sure it's
03:59
probably still there.
04:01
And I think that that's probably
04:01
one of the things that, uh,
04:04
the podcast industry isn't
04:04
very good at doing is actually
04:07
pulling this sort of stuff down.
04:09
Um, I have spent the last three
04:09
or four days, um, because pod
04:13
news is a registered trademark.
04:14
I have.
04:15
By law, um, go through all
04:15
podcasts called pod news
04:19
and, um, and, uh, issue,
04:19
take down notices about them.
04:24
It's a bit tedious.
04:25
It's a bit boring.
04:25
I don't much like doing it,
04:25
but I kind of have to do it
04:28
cause otherwise I don't have a
04:28
registered trademark anymore.
04:30
Um, and what's been interesting
04:30
about doing that is that, um,
04:34
anchor now has a rather better
04:34
copyright infringement process.
04:38
I notice if you're on Spotify or
04:38
that podcast is on Spotify that
04:42
you're complaining about, then
04:42
it goes to Spotify as people
04:46
now nots to anchors people,
04:46
uh, which is interesting.
04:49
Um, so, uh, I'm looking forward
04:49
to seeing quite what they do.
04:54
The two claims that
04:54
I've given against, um,
04:57
anchor podcasters there.
04:59
Um, also by the way, um, had
04:59
a go at, um, taking a podcast
05:03
down from a cast as well.
05:05
So it'll be interesting seeing
05:05
how fast that happens as well.
05:08
I've only ever had, um, one
05:08
podcast hosting company come
05:12
back to me and say, no, there's
05:12
nothing wrong with this.
05:15
And, um, and we're not going
05:15
to take this stuff down.
05:19
Um, and then I actually
05:19
explained to them how the, how,
05:22
how trademark law works and then
05:22
they take it down rather fast.
05:26
So, you know, so, uh,
05:26
it's still, there we go.
05:30
But no it's been, it's been
05:30
one of those interesting,
05:33
you know, interesting things
05:33
going, going through that
05:35
DMCA take down process.
05:37
Um, even though it's not
05:37
actually, DMTA, that's the
05:40
take down process that they
05:40
push you through and actually
05:43
seeing how all of that works.
05:45 Sam
Well, let us know next
05:45
week there, any of those
05:47
have been taken down or
05:47
actioned now, moving on.
05:51
Uh, the Spotify says that they
05:51
will continue losing money
05:55
from their podcast acquisitions
05:55
in 2022, but podcasts and
06:00
should begin to make a profit
06:00
at a time, not too far away.
06:04
So
06:05 James
not too far away.
06:07
Isn't it brilliant?
06:08
Not too far away.
06:09
I mean, 20, 29 is
06:09
not too far away.
06:11
When you consider, you know,
06:11
the history of the world, just
06:16
a wonderful, a wonderful phrase.
06:18
That's from their CFO.
06:19
I believe so very much pointing
06:19
out the fact that Spotify aren't
06:24
yet making any money on their
06:25 Sam
podcasting, but it
06:25
looks like if they start
06:28
to internationalize,
06:28
because one of the things.
06:31
They did, was they announced
06:31
that they're now available
06:34
or anchor is now available
06:34
in 35 different languages.
06:39
Do you think
06:39
internationalization is
06:41
the way they're going
06:41
to get to profitization?
06:43
Well, I
06:43
think,
06:44 James
uh, oh, good, good word.
06:45
Profitization um, I think in
06:45
terms of, uh, in terms of what
06:49
anchor is doing, yeah, it's
06:49
all about, um, making sure that
06:53
the user interface is available
06:53
in 35 different languages
06:56
and all of the languages
06:56
where podcasting is growing.
06:59
Um, I went to have a quick peak.
07:01
Um, I had to look at the
07:01
top five podcast hosts, but
07:04
sprout is only in English.
07:05
Libsyn is only in English,
07:05
Omni studios in six languages.
07:09
And speaker is available
07:09
in four YouTube by the way,
07:12
82 different languages.
07:14
Um, I have to say it's not
07:14
necessarily very clear that.
07:18
Port is actually available
07:18
in all of those languages.
07:21
Maybe support is only available
07:21
in English, uh, who knows.
07:25
Um, but, uh, you know, clearly
07:25
when you have a look at
07:27
places like India, Indonesia,
07:27
um, uh, Brazil, Portugal,
07:33
um, there's an awful lot of
07:33
growth in podcasting, which
07:37
isn't in the English language.
07:38
And I think a clever podcast
07:38
host should be out there
07:42
making sure that their
07:42
podcast hosting platform.
07:46
Is internationalized and
07:46
is translated into other
07:50
languages so that they can,
07:50
um, get more users from
07:53
those particular languages.
07:55 Sam
Right.
07:55
All right.
07:55
Well, let's see if that
07:55
profitization, that
07:57
occurs this year or in
07:57
sometime in the future.
08:00
There's that word again?
08:04
Now, one thing that launched
08:04
this week, uh, Laura Purcell,
08:07
who is the CEO of tink
08:07
media, launched something
08:11
called the swap database.
08:13
And I thought it sounded
08:13
like a great little idea for
08:16
people, certainly independent
08:16
podcasts as to work together
08:20
to promo swap between each
08:20
other, to try and help grow
08:23
each other's audiences.
08:24
As they say, a rising
08:24
tide raises all boats.
08:28
So I caught up with Lauren
08:28
and had a quick chat about who
08:32
or what is the swap database
08:34 Lauren
is a place where
08:34
people can enter their
08:39
information about their show.
08:40
Just some general things.
08:42
The name, approximately how
08:42
big it is and ways they like
08:46
to partner with other shows
08:46
and some tags about their show.
08:50
And once they enter on the
08:50
forum, they're part of this
08:53
big database that people can
08:53
browse so they can find good
08:56
podcast partners to work with.
08:58
Whether that be a promo
08:58
swap or a feed swap, or a
09:03
newsletter social media.
09:04
I don't know.
09:05
I want these people
09:05
to become friends.
09:07
I'm trying to set up
09:07
podcast, friendships
09:10
and podcasts, playdates.
09:11
I want these people to connect.
09:13
That's why I made the database.
09:15 Sam
Okay.
09:16
Apart from what?
09:17
In connect, what's the
09:17
business value for people
09:20
connecting and what's the
09:20
business value for you?
09:22 Lauren
It's funny because
09:22
I started it as part of a
09:26
newsletter called podcast
09:26
marketing magic, and I
09:28
just wrote email me if you
09:28
want to be partnered with.
09:33
And people would email
09:33
me and I would do my
09:36
own mixing and matching.
09:38
And I'll tell you that is
09:38
zero business strategy for me
09:42
because that's tons of time.
09:45
And I just wanted these
09:45
people working together.
09:47
I wanted it.
09:49
And eventually I was
09:49
like, there's too many.
09:51
I'm going to put them
09:51
on my website and they
09:52
can do this themselves.
09:54
So then I just said, Hey,
09:54
if you want to swap, here's
09:57
a webpage with everyone
09:57
who wants to swap and you
09:59
can go through it yourself.
10:01
And then I was like,
10:01
there's too many people.
10:02
So then I was like, duh, there
10:02
needs to be an easy way to do
10:06
this where people can search.
10:07
So the idea has never been.
10:10
A strategy for tank.
10:12
It's always really just been,
10:12
because I want podcasters Indi,
10:18
especially to, you know, I think
10:18
there's a big education gap
10:22
about how to work with people
10:22
and I want it to be free so that
10:27
there isn't a monetary gap or
10:27
a monetary issue for people not
10:31
being able to pay for marketing
10:31
or something like that.
10:33
So the reason I'm doing it
10:33
was never something that I
10:38
thought would be part of tank.
10:39
It was really because I
10:39
think that promo SOPs work,
10:43
I think that feed swaps work.
10:46
I think that you could buy an ad
10:46
and you can do a lot of things
10:50
that will give you a spike.
10:52
But I think long-term
10:52
partnerships will give you
10:55
the correct growth that will
10:55
get you the best listeners
10:59
that will come back every
10:59
time and become your biggest
11:01
advocates and tell you all
11:01
their friends, all of their
11:03
friends about your show and
11:03
in order to get those perfect.
11:07
Listeners, you need to
11:07
work with other podcasts.
11:10
So I want to get podcasters
11:10
the tool to work with
11:12
other podcasters.
11:14 Sam
Okay.
11:15
So I'm pretty sure I
11:15
know the answer to the
11:17
question, but what does a
11:17
win look like for you then?
11:19
When will you know
11:19
that it's succeeded?
11:22 Lauren
I'll know
11:22
it's succeeded.
11:23
When, what I'm hearing about it,
11:23
working and people are telling
11:26
me, I hope people let me know.
11:27
Someone already
11:27
told me on Twitter.
11:29
I saw yesterday that somebody
11:29
had already set one up.
11:32
And that is yes.
11:34
And that is what I want to see.
11:35
Also.
11:36
I just want to see
11:36
it continued to grow.
11:38
I don't ever want
11:38
it to stay the same.
11:40
I want it to grow.
11:41
How many podcasts
11:41
are there out there?
11:43
The more people that enter
11:43
the database, the better
11:47
the database will be.
11:49 Sam
We've seen similar
11:49
services like matchmaker,
11:51
which is about swapping,
11:51
to find hosts and guests
11:56
matching those two together.
11:58
Is there anyone else doing the
11:58
matching of the promos and feed?
12:02
I don't
12:02 Lauren
think so.
12:03
Actually, this wasn't
12:03
something where I put
12:05
a lot of thought into.
12:07
I just wanted it and I wanted
12:07
it now and I don't plan
12:11
on charging people for it.
12:13
It wasn't like a business thing.
12:15
Do I have to plan
12:15
for, to pay for this?
12:17
It was just so actually
12:17
I'm not sure, but I do know
12:21
what you're talking about.
12:22
I have seen those services and
12:22
that isn't really what this is.
12:24
This is really just about
12:24
growing with swaps and per my
12:29 Sam
opportunities.
12:30
Okay.
12:30
You mentioned tink media.
12:32
Tell us more about tink media.
12:33
When did it start?
12:34
What is it?
12:36 Lauren
Well, it's funny
12:36
because I came from book
12:39
publishing and I thought I
12:39
would do that my whole life.
12:41
I loved working in
12:41
book publishing.
12:43
I worked on the acquisition
12:43
board and I was their
12:45
director of social media
12:45
at the publishing house.
12:48
And.
12:49
I also loved podcasts.
12:51
And I actually had a
12:51
podcast at the time called
12:53
podcast about podcasts.
12:55
Didn't do very well
12:55
and you probably won't
12:57
be able to find it.
12:58
It's not Google-able but
12:58
the PR team would come to me
13:03
and say, Hey, can you pitch
13:03
our authors to podcasts?
13:06
Because you seem to know
13:06
a lot about podcasts.
13:09
And I was like, yes, please.
13:10
It was so much fun.
13:11
But I realized that PR
13:11
teams don't know how to work
13:14
with podcasts in general.
13:15
It's not their fault.
13:16
It's just, it was this
13:16
whole new world of that.
13:18
They didn't understand.
13:19
They didn't know who to talk to.
13:20
They didn't know how to talk
13:20
to podcasters or even how
13:23
they podcasts has worked
13:23
or what podcasters want it.
13:26
I left that job.
13:27
I was very sad and I worked
13:27
at a podcast company for a
13:30
year, but then I left to start
13:30
tank and initially it was to
13:33
help authors get on podcasts.
13:35
I thought that would just be it.
13:36
But the more I
13:36
started talking to.
13:38
Podcasters for my client.
13:40
They were like, I saw
13:40
her, they needed help and
13:43
everybody needed marketing
13:43
help and nobody was doing it.
13:46
So the company has evolved from
13:46
an PR company for base, for
13:51
authors to basically a growth
13:51
company for podcasts, because,
13:56
and the way it's developed is I
13:56
just keep on answering people's
14:00
questions when they need help.
14:02
They say, I need help with this.
14:04
Can you do this?
14:04
And I'm like, yes, because the
14:04
industry is so new and exciting,
14:08
we're inventing a lot, a bit.
14:10
So we are helping people with
14:10
any problem that pops up, and
14:14
that is changing all the time.
14:16
So we have full campaigns where
14:16
we basically, if a fearful
14:22
time client of ours, you're
14:22
the first person we think of
14:26
when we wake up in the morning
14:26
and the last person we think
14:28
about where we go to bed at
14:28
night and we're getting you on
14:31
other shows as a guest, we are
14:31
trying to get you featured in.
14:36
We are trying to get
14:36
the media to cover you.
14:38
We're setting up promo swaps,
14:38
we're setting up feed drops.
14:41
We are doing really
14:41
out of the box.
14:44
Thinking one example I
14:44
give is we had a pallets
14:46
on podcast and they wanted
14:46
Snooki on their podcast.
14:49
Cause I guess she's a Peloton
14:49
and we got them Snooki and
14:53
there was a Peloton recall
14:53
and we got them in the morning
14:55
brew newsletter because they
14:55
repelled Pelton experts.
14:58
So it really is being really
14:58
integrated with the podcast
15:04
and thinking about all sorts
15:04
of ways we can help them.
15:08
And then I work with Ari
15:08
on this and Blatt and we do
15:11
something called a podcast
15:11
therapy, which is like
15:13
consulting, but really fun.
15:16
And the only negative
15:16
feedback we've gotten is
15:18
that we're talking too fast.
15:20
We interrupt each other and
15:20
it's because we're too excited
15:23
talking about podcasts.
15:28
I don't think so.
15:29
You can't be too excited
15:29
talking about podcasts.
15:33 Sam
So what can podcasters
15:33
do to make themselves
15:37
better prepared to
15:37
work with PR companies?
15:41
Is there something that
15:41
they should be doing or is
15:43
it just a case of somebody
15:43
like you in the intermediary
15:46
educating both sides of the
15:46
fence saying look, PR people
15:50
here's some great podcasts.
15:51
People here's the PR people
15:51
you should be talking to,
15:54
or is that something that
15:54
people should be producing,
15:57
getting ready, helping
15:57
market themselves better?
16:00 Lauren
PR people
16:00
it's a big ass.
16:02
Could they cause they
16:02
understand media spaces like
16:04
nobody else, but they don't
16:04
understand the podcast space.
16:08
And in my book publishing
16:08
background, it's the,
16:13
those budgets are getting
16:13
tightened at publishing
16:15
houses and the PR people
16:15
there's fewer and fewer PR
16:18
resources and in-house anyway.
16:21
I know this isn't a book
16:21
publishing conversation,
16:23
but I hear from more and
16:23
more authors that they are
16:26
hiring their own PR agencies
16:26
and not working in house.
16:29
So I think it's just the
16:29
resources aren't there.
16:32
So I would love to do I'm
16:32
sure Erica and I could do a
16:35
podcast therapy for people
16:35
in book publishing and help
16:38
them understand how to work
16:38
with these podcasters because
16:42
it's totally different
16:45 Sam
cost as though Lauren
16:45
should podcast is in
16:48
that same vein, employ
16:48
their own PR people.
16:52
Would that be a
16:52
good step for that's
16:54 Lauren
that question?
16:55
Totally depends.
16:56
I think, first of all, I
16:56
think I always say this and it
16:58
scares people and they don't
16:58
want to hear it, but there
17:00
should be like 50% of the time
17:00
spent on marketing because
17:03
you can make a great show, but
17:03
you need people to hear it.
17:07
And I think you can
17:07
hire tank or someone.
17:12
There are a few, there's a small
17:12
group of people doing this.
17:16
They're great people, but really
17:16
you are your best PR person.
17:20
You understand everything.
17:22
But I also understand that
17:22
everybody in podcasting is
17:25
wearing 10 hats and they
17:25
don't care about marketing
17:28
and they don't, it's not the
17:28
right side of their brains,
17:31
but I do think marketing
17:31
is fun and it's a secret.
17:36
No one knows.
17:37
And I've had people say to
17:37
me, what, why don't you do
17:39
something more creative?
17:40
And I'm like, this is
17:40
such creative work.
17:43
So what I always want to impart
17:43
on people when they talk to me
17:47
about marketing is I want to,
17:47
first of all, give them a few
17:50
ideas so that like, when they
17:50
leave me, they know exactly
17:53
what they want to do first
17:53
to get started and that they
17:56
get excited about marketing
17:56
their podcasts, because
17:59
really it's all about people.
18:01
And I really do think it's a
18:01
natural thing for a podcast or
18:05
to be able to do it themselves.
18:06
But I also understand
18:06
not having the time or.
18:10
A little boost
18:10
from somebody else.
18:13 Sam
Now you've also got a
18:13
wonderful newsletter that
18:16
people can subscribe to remind
18:16
us what it's called again.
18:20 Lauren
Thank you.
18:21
It's called podcast, the
18:21
newsletter and it's podcasts,
18:25
the newsletter.stuck.com.
18:28
And that is one of those
18:28
things where I'm like, why do
18:31
I spend so much time on this?
18:34
But it's a ton of
18:34
recommendations and
18:37
interviews with podcasters.
18:39
It's really, if you like me,
18:39
you'll like the newsletter.
18:41
If you don't like me, you
18:41
won't like the newsletter.
18:43
So I have two newsletters
18:43
and podcast marketing
18:46
magic is the other one.
18:48
And that comes out
18:48
every other week.
18:50
And yes, that is lots of
18:50
podcast marketing tips.
18:53
It is why partnerships work.
18:55
There's also a lot of case
18:55
studies, like when I've seen
18:58
people do really interesting
18:58
things, I'll interview them.
19:01
There's different
19:01
issues on social media.
19:04
There's one with 100
19:04
marketing tips in it.
19:07
So really like I'm creating
19:07
mini guides for people
19:11
because what I was talking
19:11
about before, and this is
19:12
goes back to the database.
19:14
I think there's
19:14
an education gap.
19:16
And I want to close that.
19:18
I want people to understand
19:18
how these things work so they
19:21
can do them by themselves.
19:23
Because honestly, for me to
19:23
be a podcast, mark, I need
19:27
everyone to be educated in
19:27
order for me to work with
19:32
them, because I can't tell you
19:32
how many times I've emailed
19:35
someone from my client and
19:35
said, Hey, do you want to do
19:37
a promo swap 50% of the time
19:37
they say, yep, let's do it.
19:42
Bing, bam, boom.
19:43
We do it the other 50%
19:43
of the time they go.
19:46
That sounds interesting.
19:47
Can we zoom about it?
19:48
And I'm like, ah, you have no
19:48
idea what I'm talking about.
19:51
So then we zoom and I'm like
19:51
dancing around my apartment,
19:55
singing about promo slops
19:55
and teaching them what to do.
19:58
So I need people to understand
19:58
how to do this, even just
20:01
like an work with them.
20:02 Sam
So highly recommend
20:02
the silent to both of those.
20:06
And also where's the best
20:06
website to get ahold of
20:09 Lauren
you on.
20:09
You can go to tink media.co
20:09
or I'm on Twitter too much.
20:14
And that's at L U
20:14
R E N P a S E L L
20:18 Sam
Lauren.
20:19
Thank you so much and good
20:19
luck with the swab database.
20:22 Lauren
Thank you.
20:23
And thank you for giving
20:23
the database attention.
20:26
Because I also need people
20:26
to enter the database, but
20:29
also I want them to use it.
20:31
You can't just put your
20:31
name in and then run away.
20:33
You have to go check it often.
20:35
So reminder to people that
20:35
have signed up to go to.
20:38
Every once in a
20:38
while, but thanks
20:40 James
for everything
20:40
Lauren per sale.
20:41
I saw her for about 30 seconds
20:41
at podcast movement evolutions
20:45
in LA and, uh, it was sort
20:45
of, oh, look, there's Lauren.
20:51
Hello, Lauren.
20:52
Hello.
20:52
Uh, I, I, you know, I'd love to
20:52
chat, but I've got a, I've got
20:55
a run and that was literally,
20:55
it was, it was as much as I
20:58
saw just slightly embarrassing,
20:58
but still there we are.
21:03
Um, great to hear her.
21:04
And it's such a good
21:04
idea, um, for a simple,
21:08
straightforward swap database
21:08
so that you can get promo
21:11
swamps on other like-minded
21:11
shows a really clever idea.
21:15 Sam
Yes.
21:15
Well done Lauren
21:15
now, uh, moving on.
21:18
We talked about it.
21:19
Well, a few weeks back, uh,
21:19
apple podcasts, uh, we're
21:23
adding metrics to apple
21:23
connect seems like apple
21:26
podcasts now added follow
21:26
metrics to, for all shows.
21:29
Uh, and you can now
21:29
look at follower trends.
21:33
Uh, what's this all about James?
21:35 James
Yeah, it's pretty cool.
21:36
Actually.
21:37
Um, I've posted, um, a few
21:37
pieces of data from, uh, pod
21:42
news, um, where you can actually
21:42
see where people joined, you
21:46
know, and started following
21:46
your podcast or subscribing
21:49
as it was, was once known.
21:52
Um, and you can also
21:52
see when people stopped
21:54
subscribing to your podcast,
21:54
so you can actually see,
21:57
oh, probably shouldn't
21:57
have focused on that then.
22:00
Um, has lots of people, uh,
22:00
hit the, hit the unsubscribe
22:04
button or the unfollow
22:04
button or whatever it is.
22:07
Um, so, uh, yeah, some
22:07
really handy information.
22:11
Um, it's not necessarily
22:11
going to be particularly
22:15
useful in terms of.
22:17
You know, you're a follower.
22:18
And if you basically start
22:18
following a show and then
22:22
you don't listen to that show
22:22
for two years, you're still a
22:26
follower according to apple.
22:28
So I'm not quite sure entirely
22:28
how useful that is, but there
22:32
again, you know, those are
22:32
the figures that you'll see
22:34
from other places as well.
22:36
So, um, you know, more
22:36
data is always useful and
22:40
more information that can
22:40
help us make better audio
22:44
and better content, uh,
22:44
is always a good thing.
22:46
So, um, so harass for apple
22:46
for, uh, ending up doing that.
22:50 Sam
Brian Barletta
22:50
friend of the show is very
22:52
excited by all of this.
22:54
Uh, but James, you popped
22:54
his bubble a little bit.
22:56
When you went wild.
22:58
Spotify has an API for
22:58
data, apple doesn't and
23:00
neither Spotify nor apple
23:00
measure the same thing.
23:03
And you ended up with, we have
23:03
a long way to go sadly for
23:06
this data to be meaningful.
23:07
James.
23:08
So.
23:09
Come on, is it
23:10 James
that bad?
23:11
Well, I think Brian was
23:11
saying, you know, um, uh,
23:14
clever podcast hosts should be
23:14
pulling in the data from apple
23:17
podcasts and from, uh, Spotify.
23:20
Um, and I was saying, yeah,
23:20
you know, I mean, a, it'd
23:22
be brilliant if you could
23:22
pull in the data from apple,
23:25
cause they don't have an
23:25
API to get into that data.
23:27
Yes.
23:28
You can download the Excel, you
23:28
know, Excel sheets or something
23:31
and then play around with
23:31
those or numbers or whatever
23:34
apple wants to call them.
23:35
Um, but, uh, there's
23:35
no automated, uh, way
23:39
of doing that, which
23:39
is a bit frustrating.
23:42
Um, but also, you know,
23:42
it was interesting.
23:44
I was helping a few people
23:44
in a Facebook group, um,
23:47
trying to try to understand
23:47
why their Spotify figures
23:50
were saying very different
23:50
things to their figures on.
23:53
I think it was on the bus
23:53
pro pro platform actually.
23:57
Um, and I was pointing out
23:57
that, uh, Spotify measures one
24:00
thing and Buzzsprout measures
24:00
another thing and Buzzsprout
24:02
follows the IRB guidelines.
24:04
Um, always you don't
24:04
have to pay extra for.
24:08
Whereas Spotify is, is
24:08
measuring something else.
24:11
Apple is measuring something
24:11
else to, to get a play in apple.
24:14
You have to listen to precisely,
24:14
uh, one millisecond or more of
24:19
your show that counts as a play.
24:22
Whereas IB, you have to
24:22
wait for 60 seconds or so.
24:25
And so you've got
24:25
all of this stuff.
24:27
And so unfortunately we've got a
24:27
lot of data, but the data isn't
24:31
necessarily saying the same sort
24:31
of thing all the way through,
24:34
which is a bit of a shame
24:35 Sam
who knows how
24:35
that's coming up.
24:37
But, uh, moving swiftly
24:37
on talking of Brian
24:41
Barletta is still there.
24:42
Mind you, I'm a friend of
24:42
the friend of the show.
24:45
He wrote a lovely piece this
24:45
week in sounds profitable.
24:48
Why podcast appetizers
24:48
should demand transcripts.
24:52
Now we've been talking about
24:52
the need for having transcripts
24:55
in 2022, hint, hint, apple.
24:58
Um, and it seems.
25:01
Brian's saying that
25:01
advertisers should move
25:03
money away from podcasts that
25:03
don't provide transcripts.
25:07
It's why I said at the beginning
25:07
we do provide transcripts and
25:09
soda Buzzsprout um, what did
25:09
you think of the article, James?
25:13 James
Yeah, I liked it.
25:13
I mean, you know, it was,
25:13
um, I think that, uh, any
25:18
way for advertisers to put
25:18
their money where their mouth
25:21
is, and actually campaign
25:21
for accessibility campaign
25:25
for better opportunities in
25:25
terms of allowing podcasts
25:30
to reach everyone, uh, is
25:30
a very important thing.
25:33
And of course it comes
25:33
with great opportunity for
25:36
the advertisers as well.
25:38
You know, he said a very
25:38
interesting thing in the
25:42
sound's profitable newsletter
25:42
sounds profitable.com uh,
25:46
about just think how a third
25:46
party competitive intelligence
25:50
platform might classify a show.
25:52
If the transcripts refers
25:52
to a minor, like a.
25:56
Child when the host really
25:56
meant a minor, like somebody
26:00
who is, um, digging gold out of,
26:00
uh, out of the side of a hill.
26:04
Um, and you can very clearly
26:04
see that they are very different
26:07
things and it would probably
26:07
change what advertising was
26:10
actually going around it.
26:12
So, um, so he makes a good
26:12
argument, I think there in
26:17
terms of both accessibility,
26:17
but also in terms of making
26:20
advertising work better.
26:22
Um, I think the one thing that,
26:22
uh, I would have liked to have
26:26
seen in the article was actually
26:26
a little bit more of, of how
26:30
transcripts should be done.
26:32
He's talking about putting
26:32
transcripts into the ID
26:35
three tag or something,
26:35
but there isn't a podcast
26:38
player out there that deals
26:38
with that sort of thing.
26:42
Um, So I'm rather wish that,
26:42
um, you know, he was focusing
26:46
a little bit more on the
26:46
available podcast transcript
26:49
tag in the podcast, namespace,
26:49
and does have a few issues
26:53
with dynamic ad insertion.
26:55
And that's, um, one of the
26:55
problems there in terms of
26:59
closed captions, but it doesn't
26:59
in terms of transcripts.
27:02
And I think our transcripts
27:02
should probably be
27:05
delivered using the
27:05
standard, uh, namespace.
27:10
And this is, uh, you know, it's
27:10
just, again, it's something
27:12
that I, I keep on pointing out
27:12
like a boring, a stuck record.
27:17
Um, and there's a phrase that,
27:17
that won't make any sense
27:20
to anybody under the age of
27:20
30, isn't it a stuck record.
27:23
But anyway, uh, I keep on
27:23
banging on about closed captions
27:26
are not the same as transcripts
27:26
and transcripts are not the
27:29
same as closed captions, closed
27:29
captions are the things that
27:33
you can see scrolling along
27:33
the bottom of the screen as
27:36
you're listening to something.
27:38
Whereas a transcript is
27:38
something that you can flip
27:40
through and read, and a
27:40
transcript is what you will
27:43
see on pod land, stock news.
27:46
Um, uh, The Buzzsprout
27:46
website that we've got there.
27:50
Um, that is not the same
27:50
as a closed caption.
27:52
And I think it's very easy
27:52
for us to confuse the two.
27:57
Um, and, uh, and I don't think
27:57
it really helps matter as much.
28:01
So I think we should be
28:01
cautious about the language
28:04
that we use here, but
28:04
transcripts, I think are a
28:06
really, really useful thing.
28:08
Yeah.
28:08
I
28:08 Sam
mean, a couple of weeks
28:08
back, I spoke to Kevin and
28:11
Alban on their podcast podcast
28:11
about this, and they're
28:16
very keen to maybe get a
28:16
third party auto traffic.
28:20
Service the problem being,
28:20
of course, as you said, if,
28:24
if they automatically do it
28:24
and it's badly worded because
28:28
the transcript service badly
28:28
words, it who's the liable
28:31
person in it, but also it's
28:31
a very expensive service
28:34
they said, and again, is
28:34
they use a demand for it.
28:38
That's the problem in
28:38
their opinion, it's the
28:40
chicken and egg scenario.
28:41
Isn't it.
28:41
They could provide a service,
28:41
they could offer it at a fee,
28:46
you know, a bus cost pro,
28:46
but will people want it, you
28:50
know, do they go to that?
28:52
And nobody
28:52 James
actually takes up.
28:53
Yeah.
28:53
And, you know, I'm, I'm
28:53
sympathetic to that, but
28:56
I think on the other side,
28:56
there are accessibility
28:59
conversations here.
29:00
There are benefits in terms of,
29:00
uh, in terms of SEO as well.
29:05
And those boring
29:05
things like that.
29:06
There are benefits as Brian
29:06
has gone into in terms of,
29:09
um, uh, advertisers, knowing
29:09
what is actually being
29:12
talked about in a show.
29:14
And I think all of those
29:14
benefits are, um, more than,
29:17
you know, will Joe Schmo
29:17
and the two brains podcast,
29:20
you know, be interested in
29:20
paying a little bit extra.
29:23
Um, I think there is a
29:23
public, um, you know, a
29:26
public good in this as well.
29:29
Um, so we should just bear, bear
29:29
that sort of side in mind, but,
29:32
uh, yeah, I CA I can completely
29:32
get where they're going.
29:35
The podcast
29:36 Sam
academy board was
29:36
announced last week.
29:39
A couple of people of note
29:39
that we know Daniel J.
29:43
Lewis was on there.
29:44
Um, I don't really know many of
29:44
the other people on this board.
29:47
You may well do
29:47
James, but I don't
29:49 James
know.
29:49
Yeah.
29:50
I know quite a few of
29:50
them, which is good.
29:51
Um, uh, cheer ag, Desiree.
29:54
I've probably pronounced,
29:54
cheering his name wrong,
29:56
but he is the founder of
29:56
AMA AR media, which is an
29:59
Arab, um, and middle Eastern,
29:59
uh, podcast, uh, network.
30:05
Um, and I think it's great to
30:05
see, um, some more international
30:10
focus into the podcast academy.
30:13
So that's a really good thing.
30:15
Steve Wilson used to work for
30:15
apple now works for Q code as
30:18
chief strategy, uh, and as the
30:18
owner of a very exciting beard.
30:23
Um, so, um, Big hitter and
30:23
Q coder, a big, big company
30:29
doing a lot of interesting
30:29
things, particularly
30:31
around fiction podcasting.
30:33
Um, so again, really helpful
30:33
to see that in there,
30:36
Valentina, Calla, Dina once
30:36
gave me a radio, you know,
30:40
cause I think I did something
30:40
for Castbox where she works.
30:44
Um, and she ended up giving
30:44
me a very fancy, uh, radio
30:47
when I saw her in London.
30:50
Uh, I believe that
30:50
she's now living in the,
30:52
in the U S somewhere.
30:54
Um, but working for a cast
30:54
box, uh, and she was at
30:58
podcast movement evolutions,
30:58
which was good to see here.
31:01
Um, and then there's a bunch
31:01
of people who I don't recognize
31:04
and who, I don't know.
31:05
Uh, Amy FACA, who is a host of
31:05
a podcast called tuck it out,
31:09
Ilana source now who works
31:09
for podcast one great big
31:12
company, which is nice, Martha
31:12
Little, um, who works for.
31:17
And Becky sestina who
31:17
works for a cast, um,
31:22
on content partnerships.
31:24
Uh, what I think is really
31:24
good here is that there are
31:26
some very big companies here.
31:28
There are some very
31:28
small companies here.
31:31
Uh, it's not all based in
31:31
the U S um, and you know,
31:35
certainly somebody like.
31:37
Valentina used to live in
31:37
China and various other places.
31:40
Very, very internationally.
31:42
But, uh, yeah, so, you know,
31:42
I think one of the criticisms,
31:46
you know, if you can have
31:46
a, you know, a bit of a, a
31:49
bit of a whinge about the
31:49
podcast academy is that
31:51
it's been very us focused.
31:53
And I think with these new board
31:53
of governors, it's much less.
31:56
So, um, so I think that's
31:56
good as well as having quite
31:59
a few indie people on there.
32:00
So, um, harass for them.
32:02
Uh, if you're a member you can
32:02
meet the board next Tuesday.
32:06
Um, just go to the podcast
32:06
academy website, uh, and have a
32:10
quick look at the events section
32:10
and you can find out more live.
32:14 Sam
Audio comes to Spotify is
32:14
main app, uh, sadly us only.
32:19
Couple of weeks back.
32:20
I spoke with Christmas, seen a
32:20
friend of the show about this
32:24
and the renaming of Spotify
32:24
greener and Spotify live.
32:28
It seems it went live this week.
32:30
Have you had a little
32:30
shifty around it?
32:33
I mean, you were in Australia,
32:33
so you probably don't get it
32:35 James
only through.
32:35
Yes.
32:36
I'm not sure that they've
32:36
given it to people like us.
32:38
Um, and uh, I let my
32:38
Spotify subscription lapse.
32:44
Um, so therefore, you know, just
32:44
to save myself a bit of money.
32:47
Um, so I don't actually
32:47
have Spotify on my
32:50
phone at the moment.
32:52
Uh, so there's a thing.
32:53
I know the re the
32:53
very curious thing.
32:56
So they've basically
32:56
they've, um, changed its
32:59
name to Spotify live.
33:01
They've integrated bits of
33:01
it into the main Spotify
33:04
app, but not all of it.
33:05
So live listening in the main
33:05
Spotify app doesn't support any
33:09
of the interactive features.
33:10
So you can't do polls, you
33:10
can't do questions and answers,
33:14
uh, any of that sort of thing.
33:16
So that seems a
33:16
bit of a misstep.
33:18
It will only also include
33:18
select programming as well
33:21
into the main Spotify app.
33:22
So if you want to hear
33:22
no people wittering on
33:25
about cryptocurrency, then
33:25
that's fine, but you'll
33:27
still need to download the
33:27
Spotify live app to do that.
33:31
Whereas they're being very
33:31
careful who they allow
33:33
into the main Spotify app.
33:35
And that seems a bit
33:35
of a misstep too.
33:37
Um, but, uh, yeah, I mean,
33:37
uh, I guess they've got to do
33:40
something to keep it being used.
33:43
Otherwise it will be another
33:43
clubhouse, I suppose I
33:46 Sam
actually have
33:46
high hopes for this.
33:48
I think, um, as I said,
33:48
I think music artists
33:52
releasing new albums.
33:54
Running a Spotify live robe
33:54
with their fans, maybe charging
33:59
them, having super follows a
33:59
Q and a, um, I, yeah, I can
34:03
see this working really well.
34:05
Um, whether it will transfer
34:05
over into podcasting.
34:08
I don't know.
34:09
I doubt it.
34:10
Um, but I think it's, you know,
34:10
again, some of that came out of
34:14
a sports background and I know
34:14
sports fans on YouTube love to
34:18
just talk to people about sport.
34:21
So.
34:22
Um, I do have high hopes
34:22
for this one, actually.
34:24
So let's see what else.
34:25
And so, I mean,
34:26 James
I, I can see it
34:26
working for a particular
34:29
type of, of event.
34:31
Um, but it, to me, it's,
34:31
it seems like a feature
34:35
and not like an app, so
34:35
that's probably why they've
34:37
pulled it into the main
34:37
Spotify, um, uh, app itself.
34:41
Um, but, uh, yeah, you know,
34:41
it'll be interesting to see
34:45
how people end up using it,
34:45
but it does seem to be a very
34:48
select thing and yes, you know,
34:48
um, uh, you know, Brittany
34:52
Spears might be in it, but
34:52
there certainly won't be any
34:54
James and Sam showing them.
34:56
No,
34:56 Sam
no, no, no, not for awhile.
34:58
Um, and I'm so looking forward
34:58
to all those clubhouse gurus who
35:02
told me in January, how amazing
35:02
they were and what clubhouse
35:06
was going to do for the world,
35:06
coming over to Spotify, live for
35:09
him to tell me exactly the same.
35:10
Surely
35:11 James
anyway, well, a
35:11
clubhouse has a clubhouse
35:14
is still being worked on.
35:15
Um, it's got another, uh,
35:15
feature it's now got dark mode.
35:20
So if you want to, you can
35:20
talk on clubhouse, uh, uh,
35:24
into the middle of the night
35:24
and not get your retinas
35:26
burnt out by the, uh, very,
35:26
very bright colors on there
35:30
because it now has dark mode.
35:32
Woo exciting.
35:33
Actually, I do like the
35:33
way that the company
35:37
actually, uh, Uh, announced
35:37
it, uh, clearly somebody
35:42
has got a sense of humor.
35:43
Cause they're, they're
35:43
basically saying, um, while
35:46
it may have taken us longer
35:46
than what would be considered
35:49
fast or reasonable or at all
35:49
acceptable by human standards,
35:54
the wait is finally over,
35:54
uh, good for them clubhouse.
35:58
So, uh, yeah, I think
35:58
that's a fun thing to see.
36:00
Okay.
36:01 Sam
Uh, any, any news of
36:01
fireside, your favorite chapter?
36:04 James
Um, well, no,
36:04
no, not particularly.
36:07
Um, I believe that fan
36:07
on for Tommy was, um, at
36:09
podcast movement evolutions.
36:11
I didn't see her speak.
36:13
Um, and from what I can work
36:13
out Pharcyde is, is basically
36:18
pivoting into a video app.
36:20
Um, just so that it can, you
36:20
know, burn light Cribby did,
36:23
I don't know, but, um, perhaps
36:23
that that's, what's going
36:26
on, uh, who knows and talking
36:26
about burning, like, uh, have
36:30
you seen about CNN, CNN plus?
36:33
Oh
36:34 Sam
yes.
36:35
Yes.
36:36
One of my favorite podcast
36:36
is, is as professor Scott
36:39
Galloway, who's on there,
36:39
but it is not looking good.
36:43
It says while CNN is available
36:43
on basic cable in the U S
36:47
fewer than 10,000 people
36:47
are using the new paid CNN
36:51
plus subscription service.
36:54
Yeah.
36:54
They made a big song and dance
36:54
about launching this, but it
36:56
seems to have been a damp score.
36:59
Uh, as a
36:59 James
result, indeed.
37:01
Um, uh, and, uh, yes,
37:01
apparently cuts are coming.
37:04
It's only been launched for two
37:04
weeks, but what they've done.
37:08
And I think that there's
37:08
something that we can learn
37:10
from, um, for podcasting here.
37:14
What they did is when they
37:14
launched, they didn't make a
37:16
CNN plus available everywhere.
37:18
It wasn't on Android TV.
37:20
Uh, it wasn't on Roku
37:20
when they launched.
37:22
They've only launched Roku
37:22
on Monday and Roku is very,
37:24
very big in the U S it's
37:24
not particularly large.
37:27
I mean, it's not even available
37:27
here, but it's not particularly
37:29
large in, in much of Europe, but
37:29
very large in the U S um, And
37:33
CNN plus wasn't there at launch.
37:36
And so what they've basically,
37:36
um, you know, what's, what's
37:39
pretty clear is if you launch
37:39
and you're not available on all
37:42
of the platforms, then it's not
37:42
really going to work very well.
37:46
Um, and there's something
37:46
to be said there.
37:48
I think to have a look at
37:48
podcasting and go, if you've
37:51
got a free podcast, which
37:51
is available, you need
37:53
a really good reason why
37:53
people should be spending
37:56
money to pay, to get what's
37:56
essentially the same product.
38:01
Um, but a, but a
38:01
paid version of that.
38:04
Um, and so worthwhile just
38:04
taking a peek at what's going
38:09
on with CNN, plus it doesn't,
38:09
um, it's not helping the
38:12
fact that, of course it's.
38:14
Um, now, uh, the, uh,
38:14
owning a company of CNN
38:19
has merged with another.
38:21
I think, uh, I can't
38:21
quite remember.
38:23
I think it's now Warner has
38:23
merged with the Warner media
38:27
has merged with discovery and
38:27
the Warner CEO has gone, uh,
38:33
and discovery of basically
38:33
basically looking at it and
38:36
going, why on earth are we
38:36
spending all of this money?
38:38
Stop it and stop it now.
38:40
So that's not probably,
38:40
probably not helping things,
38:43
but, uh, yeah, there's a,
38:43
there's a sad, old thing.
38:46 Sam
So I did want to
38:46
ask you a little bit more
38:48
about Wondery and luminary.
38:50
Cause I mean, clearly
38:50
Wondery is trying to get
38:53
subscription services going.
38:54
They're the number one on
38:54
apple podcast channels.
38:58
Um, luminary is
38:58
still to hear long.
39:01
They have that new
39:01
CEO joined recently.
39:04
Um, The TV world.
39:07
Right?
39:07
For example, um, if you look at
39:07
prime and you look at, um, uh,
39:13
Netflix, our apple TV Disney,
39:13
plus we all, as consumers seem
39:18
to have adopted or accepted that
39:18
we have to pay to view content.
39:22
And in fact, um, really
39:22
good program come out called
39:26
slow horses on apple TV.
39:28
And I really hate going back on
39:28
to apple TV, but I did it pay
39:32
for it because that was the only
39:32
place the content was available.
39:35
Yeah.
39:35
Are we going to ever get to the
39:35
point to you think where we go,
39:39
you know, advertising and the
39:39
struggle we have with finding
39:43
sponsors and the struggle
39:43
with advertising and Dai?
39:46
Oh, let's just park all that.
39:47
Let's just charge
39:47
for the content.
39:49
Do you think that's
39:49
the model we will
39:51 James
get.
39:52
I mean, I think there's
39:52
definitely something in offering
39:54
audiences, the choice to pay
39:54
for something and to, you
39:59
know, do that sort of thing.
40:00
I think that there's
40:00
definitely something there.
40:02
I think the difference
40:02
between where we are in
40:04
video and I, you, you
40:04
you're speaking to somebody,
40:07
Sam who was just set up.
40:10
Android TV box again.
40:13
Um, because of a change that
40:13
I made to my main Google
40:17
account meant that I, um, I
40:17
finally got around to setting
40:21
up a home Google account
40:21
for everything that I don't
40:25
need to be logged into.
40:26
And so of course, having to set
40:26
up every single app on there and
40:29
everything else, and you realize
40:29
what a complete nightmare it
40:33
is to go and log into Netflix
40:33
and download the Netflix app
40:37
and then download the Amazon
40:37
prime app and then download the
40:40
binge app that we've got here
40:40
in Australia, and then download,
40:44
you know, um, the Disney
40:44
plus app and then download,
40:48
you know, and you're just
40:48
downloading all of these apps
40:50
and it drives you a bit crazy.
40:52
I think what, what we've got in
40:52
podcasting is we've actually got
40:55
a really good, easy, as long as
40:55
you're on apple, a really good,
40:59
easy system where it's the one
40:59
app, it's the apple podcast app.
41:04
You're paying a certain
41:04
amount of money.
41:07
Um, for the content creators
41:07
who you really like.
41:10
And so yes, you can download
41:10
a wandering plus app.
41:13
Yes.
41:13
You can download a luminary
41:13
app, but actually you can
41:15
get all of the content from
41:15
both Wondery and luminary
41:20
inside the apple podcasts app.
41:22
And that just makes it
41:22
an awful lot easier.
41:24
So I think we've, we've got
41:24
probably a good thing that,
41:28
um, But I think it's going to
41:28
be interesting seeing exactly
41:33
how many people are, you know,
41:33
um, are actually doing that.
41:37
I was looking after a
41:37
session at podcast movement,
41:41
evolutions talking about
41:41
premium subscriptions, and
41:45
I was asking people, is
41:45
it paying its own way yet?
41:49
Um, and the wasn't really a very
41:49
equivocal answer of, yes, it is.
41:55
Um, quite a few people were
41:55
pointing out and Donald Albright
41:58
from, uh, Tenderfoot TV was
41:58
pointing out that actually part
42:02
of the real benefit of offering
42:02
a paid subscription in apple
42:05
podcasts is the apple podcasts
42:05
promotes the heck out of your
42:08
content because it knows that
42:08
it can earn money out of it.
42:11
So actually it's really
42:11
beneficial just for the
42:14
additional promotion that
42:14
you get from apple podcasts.
42:18
Um, so, and, and I can
42:18
kind of see that sort
42:21
of side of it as well.
42:22
So roll on the day when apple
42:22
podcast is available on Android.
42:26
Because they're going
42:26
to have to do that.
42:27
They're not, then
42:27
they're not stupid.
42:29
Um, James,
42:30 Sam
James, don't keep
42:30
bringing you that thought
42:34
you got away with it.
42:35
That's a RO
42:36 James
role on the day
42:36
when they're doing that.
42:37
But I think that's the
42:37
difference between where we
42:40
are in terms of TV and where
42:40
we are in terms of podcasting.
42:44
Um, it's probably not great
42:44
for the individual content
42:48
creator, but actually it's, it's
42:48
pretty good for the audience.
42:51
I think.
42:52
So that's not a bad
42:53 Sam
thing.
42:54
Well, um, I've just
42:54
noticed that Lumina.
42:58
Brought out a music app
42:58
on your favorite artists,
43:00
the hip hop geo Blackstar.
43:02
I mean, why a luminary
43:02
venturing into music?
43:06
I mean, is that just going
43:06
out of their lane into
43:09
Spotify is Laden, isn't it?
43:10
Well,
43:10 James
I wonder whether it's
43:10
just another way of getting
43:12
a bunch more subscriptions.
43:14
Um, and, uh, whether that's just
43:14
a, uh, a, um, an interesting,
43:19
you know, thing for them
43:19
to end up trying Dave Jones
43:22
send us a booster Graham or
43:22
sent the pod news podcast to
43:26
booster growing saying, is the
43:26
luminary music album release
43:29
a subscription only thing?
43:31
Or is it open it's subscription
43:31
only Dave, that's the
43:34
reason why they're doing it.
43:35
Um, apparently hip hop
43:35
Epiduo Blackstar are really,
43:40
really big, and this is their
43:40
first album in 24 years.
43:43
And it's going to be amazing.
43:44
And the only way that you can
43:44
listen to it for possibly a
43:48
couple of weeks is on luminary.
43:50
Um, and so therefore clearly
43:50
that is going to sell a bunch
43:55
of luminary, you know, subs.
43:57
Um, I mean, it's why
43:57
it's 5 99, 6 99 a month,
44:00
something like that.
44:01
So it's cheaper than
44:01
going out and buying a CD.
44:03
Um, you know, why not?
44:05
But, um, yeah, it, maybe it's
44:05
just luminary trying to see
44:10
whether they can be more than
44:10
just a podcast company and be
44:13
a subscription audio company.
44:15
And maybe this is just a,
44:15
an interesting plan or maybe
44:18
they're just best buddies with
44:18
Blackstar, the hip hop duo.
44:22 Sam
I just got to remind
44:22
you, change your cart.
44:23
Talk about records and CDs.
44:25
You'll lose the
44:25
audience, honestly.
44:29 James
Yes.
44:30
Well, there we go.
44:31
Uh, I should really find out
44:31
what black stars biggest.
44:35
Uh, hint was, but, uh,
44:35
I searched for Blackstar
44:39
and Blackstar gives me
44:39
Blackstar coffee roasters,
44:42
which are a very good coffee
44:42
roasters here in Brisbane.
44:45
Uh, so that's no help.
44:47
And of course, Blackstar
44:47
in terms of music gives
44:50
me a track from radio head
44:50
and, uh, of course, uh,
44:54
attract from David Bowie.
44:56
So none of that
44:56
is helpful at all.
44:58
Thank you, Google.
44:59
There you go.
45:01 Sam
Now, one more thing,
45:01
cause it just really did, uh,
45:04
make my eyes roll this one,
45:04
cause I just don't get it a
45:07
bit like luminary doing music.
45:10
I, heart media is making an
45:10
NFT based podcast network and
45:15
I went along and I thought I
45:15
better read this story before
45:18
I taught them and poopoo it.
45:21
I've read it.
45:22
And I still I'm tutting
45:22
and poopy, because it ends
45:25
with the lovely statement.
45:27
I heart's commitment to bringing
45:27
web three to the mass market
45:31
and I'm like, oh my God,
45:31
what are I heart media doing,
45:35 James
James?
45:35
I wish I could tell you more
45:35
about what I army are doing.
45:38
Cause I, frankly, what,
45:38
what is, seems to what
45:43
it seems to be is iHeart
45:43
media has bought some NFTs.
45:49
So some, you know, crappy
45:49
cartoons as a JPEG, they
45:53
bought these things, right?
45:55
And so they own, they own
45:55
the, the rights to, you know,
46:00
a particular drawing of a
46:00
mutant eight yacht club or a
46:04
particular drawing of a crypto.
46:07
Uh, NFT.
46:08
Right?
46:09
And so, because they own the
46:09
rights to those and crypto codes
46:12
and all of these things, because
46:12
they own the rights to those.
46:16
Then they will, um,
46:16
make podcasts featuring
46:20
those products that
46:20
they own the rights for.
46:25
And, uh, yeah, I mean, you
46:25
know, it, it seems to be,
46:32
it seems basically that, uh,
46:32
Connell burn, what w w wants
46:35
to buy some NFTs to look
46:35
cool and to make a few funky
46:40
press releases about it.
46:41
Um, I'm kind of looking at it
46:41
and thinking, I don't frankly
46:45
really understand an awful lot.
46:46
Um, I heart did, uh, publish a,
46:46
um, a press release all about
46:52
the actual, um, uh, characters
46:52
that they have, uh, purchased,
46:58
uh, as well, which, um, you
46:58
know, it's on their investors
47:01
website as well, which is
47:01
like, kind of really, but for
47:07
example, um, uh, iHeart own
47:07
mutant, Abe number 1 0 1 4 for
47:15
their own crypto punk, number
47:15
2 8 2, 1, and world of women,
47:18
number 7 1 4 7 and 7 7 3.
47:23
I have no idea what, I mean,
47:23
maybe, maybe I'm turning into
47:28
the old person that doesn't
47:28
understand technology that used
47:32
to really annoy me when I was
47:32
listening to the radio when
47:34
I was, when I was about 20,
47:37 Sam
that inter web
47:37
will never catch
47:39 James
up.
47:39
Exactly, exactly.
47:41
Uh, www dot.
47:44
Um, but, uh, you know, so maybe
47:44
I'm just turning into that,
47:47
but I, I just look at all of
47:47
this nonsense and I'm just
47:50
there thinking none of this
47:50
makes any sense, none of this.
47:54
And it's called the
47:54
non-funded squad.
47:57
I just don't.
47:58
I, I don't get it.
47:59
I don't get it.
48:00
If you do understand it, then
48:00
please, um, uh, send us a
48:04
message comments at Podland
48:04
dot news or indeed, um, hit
48:07
that boost button, uh, and,
48:07
uh, send us a boost, a gram
48:11
and, uh, tell us how wrong
48:11
we are and how we should
48:15
really get with the program.
48:16
Um, but, um, uh, I don't
48:16
really understand it.
48:19
No,
48:20 Sam
let's move on to
48:20
more sensible news.
48:22
Now, a major new podcast
48:22
investment company has launched
48:26
in Sweden called potlucks group.
48:29
They will invest in
48:29
international podcast, IP
48:31
rights and offer financing
48:31
and business development,
48:35
internationalization, and
48:35
commercialization to emerging
48:39
podcast, producers and creators.
48:41
Sounds like a good idea.
48:42
Does it?
48:43 James
Yeah, it
48:43
sounds pretty good.
48:44
Uh, it's being run by a.
48:46
Big media people in
48:46
Sweden, uh, there's an
48:50
X radio person in there.
48:51
There's an X, um, uh, you
48:51
know, a big media type, uh,
48:55
in there from TV as well, uh,
48:55
who understand a few things
48:59
or two about IP and how to
48:59
get the best out of that.
49:02
So I think that that's
49:02
really interesting.
49:04
I wonder if products group will
49:04
be in Malmo in Sweden in a, in a
49:08
four weeks time when I'm there.
49:10
Uh, it might be interesting to
49:10
find out more, um, the stuff
49:13
going on in Africa as well.
49:16
Um, this is a company which
49:16
I don't fully understand
49:19
called semi box, which
49:19
is a podcast incubator.
49:21
They basically help
49:21
podcasters, uh, in Kenya.
49:25
Um, and they have, um, over
49:25
the last 18 months, they've
49:28
earned more than 5.5 million
49:28
Kenyan shillings, which so.
49:33
It turns out to be
49:33
about 48,000 us dollars.
49:35
Um, uh, but they've, um,
49:35
you know, pumped that money
49:39
into the podcasting industry
49:39
there, um, which looks good.
49:43
And there's a new podcast
49:43
awards for Africa as well.
49:45
The APV awards, which are open
49:45
for nominations, guess how
49:49
much it costs you to get your
49:49
podcast into the AP VA awards.
49:54
Uh, Sam, normally these, these,
49:54
these things are, you know,
49:56
hundreds of hundreds of dollars.
49:58
Aren't they to enter,
49:59 Sam
I'd go a hundred
49:59
Kenyan shillings, then no
50:02 James
idea.
50:03
Well, it's, it's, it's
50:03
even lower than that.
50:05
Uh, it's full free.
50:07
So if you are, yes, if you
50:07
are a qualifying podcast,
50:12
then you should be entering
50:12
the AP VA awards in Africa.
50:15
I should also, uh, say hello
50:15
to everybody in Ireland, you
50:18
should be entering the Irish
50:18
podcast awards, uh, which are
50:22
brand new and available for you.
50:23
Now you can subs, you
50:23
can, um, uh, submit
50:26
your podcast in there.
50:27
Now that will cost you slightly
50:27
more than nothing but not
50:30
that much more than nothing.
50:31
Uh, so you should,
50:31
uh, enter that to,
50:34 Sam
and the British podcast
50:34
awards closed this weekend.
50:36
So you're too late.
50:41 James
Breaking
50:41
news did warn you.
50:46 Sam
Uh, you wrote
50:46
about that grabbed me.
50:48
I just, there are company
50:48
that stay off my radar.
50:50
I never really
50:50
know what they do.
50:53
Audio boom release
50:53
their Q1 figures.
50:56
Um, they look very healthy.
50:58
Revenue was $19.7 million
50:58
more than double year on year.
51:02
Um, it said they've contracted
51:02
revenues of 60.5 million this
51:07
year already more than it
51:07
brought in the whole of 2021.
51:11
I thought audio boom was on
51:11
the, uh, slab for being bought
51:14
and it was on his knees.
51:15
It looks like it's.
51:17
And what's it doing?
51:19
Yeah.
51:19 James
Audio, boom has actually
51:19
had a very strange sort of past
51:23
actually of, um, some things
51:23
working very well for them.
51:26
And some things, you know, uh,
51:26
I mean, at one point they were
51:31
trying to buy Triton digital,
51:31
and then that didn't work.
51:35
And then at one point they
51:35
were desperately trying to
51:38
sell themselves to other people
51:38
and then that didn't work.
51:41
Um, but they seem to
51:41
be doing tremendously.
51:43
Well.
51:44
I mean, any company that,
51:44
you know, we're in April and
51:47
they have already contracted
51:47
more money in terms of
51:50
advertising for this calendar
51:50
year than they achieved
51:54
through the whole of 2021.
51:58
That's a pretty
51:58
amazing, uh, thing.
52:00
So many congratulations,
52:00
um, to them.
52:03
And, uh, Stewart last who's been
52:03
the CEO for the last couple of
52:07
years, although only officially
52:07
for the last six months or so,
52:10
you know, he must be doing, you
52:10
know, he must be thinking, um,
52:13
uh, tremendously, you know, He
52:13
must be doing tremendously well.
52:18
Uh, but yeah, it's a
52:18
really interesting company.
52:20
They don't have too many
52:20
podcasts, um, uh, in terms
52:25
of their whole slate.
52:27
And I think probably that's
52:27
one of their, um, things
52:31
that are S uh, quite, um,
52:31
uh, you know, clever about
52:35
them is that they have very
52:35
much picked and chosen.
52:38
Um, some of the podcasts
52:38
that they look after, rather
52:43
than just going out and,
52:43
um, you know, emailing as
52:45
many people as they possibly
52:45
can to join their network.
52:48
Not that anybody would do that.
52:49
Um, so I think, you know, that
52:49
has meant that they can keep
52:52
their cost per thousands higher.
52:54
That has meant that they can,
52:54
you know, focus on, um, getting,
52:58
uh, doing some very good
52:58
bespoke, you know, advertising.
53:02
Um, so I think that they're
53:02
doing a really good, good
53:05
job and a UK company.
53:07 Sam
Now let's move on
53:07
to tech tech corner.
53:10
James G did something.
53:11
I thought, I thought
53:11
it was quite cool.
53:12
This week.
53:13
You have taken pod
53:13
news podcast pages.
53:17
They will now always
53:17
show a trailer in the
53:19
player if one exists.
53:20
And if it's marked up
53:20
in the RSS feed, I think
53:23
that's really clever.
53:24
Why did you go and do it?
53:26
Well done.
53:27 James
Well, thank
53:27
you very much.
53:28
Uh, yes.
53:29
Cause I thought, um, because,
53:29
uh, you know, the pod news
53:32
podcast pages are really there
53:32
to give you a little bit more
53:36
information about the podcast,
53:36
learn where to subscribe to
53:40
it, where to listen to it.
53:41
And it did have a player
53:41
in there, but it was just
53:44
showing the latest episode.
53:45
And I thought, well,
53:45
what's the point of
53:46
showing the latest episode?
53:48
Really?
53:49
Actually, if you're going
53:49
to find out more information
53:52
about a podcast that's been
53:52
written about in the pod news
53:55
website, and why would you
53:55
not want to have a listen
53:59
to the trailer to understand
53:59
what this podcast is about?
54:02
And of course the benefit
54:02
of apple allowing you to
54:06
mark up a trailers in the
54:06
RSS feed means that that is
54:09
relatively easy to end up doing.
54:10
So, yeah.
54:11
So if there's a trailer, it
54:11
will automatically exist.
54:14
I'm not sure we've got
54:14
a trailer for this show.
54:16
Um, but if we have a trailer.
54:20
We did, we did.
54:22
That was a long time ago.
54:23
Wasn't it?
54:23
Um, so, uh, yeah, so that
54:23
will always show up otherwise,
54:27
um, if it's a episodic show,
54:27
it will show the, the newest
54:32
episode, if it's a, you know,
54:32
a serial show like, uh, but
54:35
you know, like a fiction, uh,
54:35
show, it will show the first
54:38
episode so that we don't,
54:38
um, you know, break anything.
54:41
Um, but, uh, yeah, I just, I
54:41
just suddenly thought, why am
54:44
I not doing that rather than
54:44
just, um, playing around what
54:48
is essentially a random episode?
54:50
Um, so, um, yeah, so
54:52 Sam
that's what I've done,
54:52
but what's, what's really
54:54
interesting for me is that
54:54
you're using the iTunes
54:57
podcast trailer tag, but
54:57
there's also a pod cast index
55:02 James
trailer tag.
55:02
Uh, yes.
55:03
I believe that the podcast index
55:03
trailer tank is being worked on.
55:06
Um, and this is
55:06
where I grumpily go.
55:08
I don't understand why
55:08
they're reinventing.
55:12
Um, so I'm sure that there
55:12
are good reasons for it.
55:16
And I haven't looked properly
55:16
at the, uh, the replacement
55:19
tag, but I'm using the one that
55:19
everybody is using, because
55:22
I'm not sure that there's
55:22
really any benefit in using
55:25
anything else, but obviously
55:25
if people are starting to
55:28
use, um, the new podcast,
55:28
um, the new podcast, uh, uh,
55:34
namespace version, then I will
55:34
obviously have a look at that.
55:37
One thing that I
55:37
have noticed is that.
55:40
Um, I'm actually playing
55:40
the latest trailer,
55:44
which is available.
55:45
So the newest trailer, which
55:45
is available, there are quite a
55:48
few podcasts out there that have
55:48
two, three or four different
55:52
trailers for different, um,
55:52
for different series, for
55:56
example, for different seasons.
55:58
Um, and so I'm showing you the
55:58
latest trailer, um, but, uh,
56:02
perhaps the, perhaps there's
56:02
a better way of actually,
56:05
you know, showing that up in
56:05
the, um, uh, in the RSS feed.
56:10
I don't know.
56:11 Sam
Now, moving on pod chaser
56:11
has launched an API for sponsors
56:15
and ad spends simply search
56:15
prod, chase of one of the top
56:18
5,000 podcasts or their episodes
56:18
to find what brands have
56:22
sponsored that show in the past.
56:25
James, will you be integrating
56:25
this into pod pages?
56:28
But news is pod pages.
56:29 James
I won't because,
56:29
uh, it's part of their
56:32
paid API and, uh, I'm not
56:32
going to end up doing that.
56:37
And it's also actually only
56:37
the top 5,000 podcasts, which
56:40
I know sounds like a lot, but
56:40
given that there are at least
56:43
2.4 million in apple podcasts
56:43
alone, um, you know, I'm not
56:48
sure to be honest that it will
56:48
be something that will be that
56:51
visible in most of the shows
56:51
that I'm promoting, but, you
56:56
know, um, uh, it's an, it's
56:56
another interesting piece of
56:59
data that pod chaser has, um,
56:59
got in there in their API.
57:05
And I can, well, see it
57:05
being useful for advertisers.
57:08
Um,
57:08 Sam
I'm not sure many more
57:08
than 5,000 podcasts have
57:11
sponsors all ad spends mean.
57:13
I wonder what that percentage
57:13
is of the 4.3 million.
57:16 James
Oh, that would be,
57:16
that would be interesting.
57:18
I wonder, I wonder if, uh,
57:18
pod tracer even know that
57:21
that figure indeed, that
57:21
would be very interesting to
57:23 Sam
find out new platform
57:23
launched called rent.
57:25
Rent-free.
57:27
It's a free software platform,
57:27
not unlike Patreon or sub-state
57:31
buy me a coffee or similar
57:31
services integrated with Stripe.
57:35
The code is open on get hub.
57:37
It's in use on a
57:37
podcast called on
57:40 James
GBS pod.
57:41
Yeah, it looks pretty cool.
57:42
So many congratulations
57:42
to the person.
57:45
That's put that together.
57:47
Uh, you can build, um, a
57:47
Patrion alike or a binomial
57:51
coffee alike quite easily
57:51
just using a Stripe.
57:54
Um, and, uh, I did
57:54
that for a while.
57:57
Uh, pod news actually.
57:58
Um, so it seems to work quite
57:58
nicely, so good to see them
58:02
doing that and making that
58:02
available for other people.
58:05
And also blueberry has added
58:05
something that actually to be
58:07
fair, quite a few other podcast
58:07
hosts have account sharing.
58:12
So it allows for additional
58:12
users and permissions for shows.
58:15
Uh, so where there are, you
58:15
know, two people working on a
58:18
podcast, you don't need to share
58:18
somebody username and password.
58:22
You can both log in and you
58:22
both have a certain access and
58:26
permissions and stuff like that.
58:28
So, um, more, uh, good work
58:28
from the blueberry team
58:32
who seems to be working
58:32
incredibly hard at the moment.
58:35
So, um, yeah, so that's,
58:35
uh, that's all pretty good
58:37 Sam
safe.
58:38
Uh, on with the movers and
58:38
shakers of the industry,
58:41
Courtney Holt, Spotfire
58:41
global head of podcasts
58:44
and new initiatives is
58:44
leaving the company.
58:47
Uh, he worked there
58:47
for four years.
58:50
It's now going to be split
58:50
between Julie McNamara and
58:53
max Cutler, who will have
58:53
Holtz responsibilities.
58:57
Do you know any of these people?
58:58
Uh, neither
58:59 James
Julie or max has a
58:59
beard, whereas Courtney is
59:02
a very much a beard owner.
59:04
Um, so max was the person who
59:04
was a co-founder of Parcast.
59:10
Uh, I think I'm right in saying.
59:12
Um, Courtney has basically been,
59:12
um, the boss of, or one of the
59:16
many bosses at Spotify, um,
59:16
of, uh, podcasts, um, and has
59:21
essentially seen some tremendous
59:21
changes in the last four years.
59:25
I've met him on, on a
59:25
couple of occasions.
59:27
Um, he always seems to be a
59:27
very serious chap, um, and
59:31
I'm sure that, um, he will,
59:31
um, be, uh, you know, very
59:36
much missed in that company.
59:38
Um, but, uh, you know,
59:38
certainly he's, um,
59:42
uh, absolutely made of.
59:43
Big change in how that company
59:43
has seen podcasting over the
59:47
last four years or so, so
59:47
many congratulations to him.
59:51
It will be interesting to
59:51
see what he ends up doing
59:53
because nobody knows yet
59:53
not the only person to
59:56
leave from Spotify as well.
59:58
Uh, Spotify has lost their
59:58
managing director for Gimlet,
1:00:02
Lydia Polgreen, who is to
1:00:02
join the New York times
1:00:06
as an opinion economist.
1:00:07
Um, so, um, she is moving
1:00:07
back to her journalism roots.
1:00:13
Uh, she used to, um,
1:00:13
be, I think, editor in
1:00:16
chief or something for
1:00:16
HuffPost, something.
1:00:19
So, um, she's very much
1:00:19
moving back to her journalism
1:00:22
roots, um, and, uh, you know,
1:00:22
Gimlet hasn't necessarily
1:00:27
had a fantastic time over
1:00:27
the last couple of years.
1:00:30
Um, so, uh, I wish her
1:00:30
all the best as well.
1:00:33 Sam
Yeah.
1:00:34
Uh, get a Ben Zula is
1:00:34
to join Deezer as COO.
1:00:38
She says, I couldn't be
1:00:38
more thrilled about joining
1:00:41
the amazing Deezer team
1:00:41
and being part of the