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The last word in podcasting news. Every Thursday, James Cridland from Podnews in Australia and Sam Sethi, from 'Podcast First' River Radio in the UK, review and analyse some of the week's top podcasting news from around the world. They also interview some of the biggest names making the news. Sponsored by Buzzsprout and SquadCast.

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episode 71: Hello to Spotify's new curation and moderation policies. Goodbye to Spotify's Greenroom creator fund and Facebook's podcasts. [transcript]


Sponsor

  • Buzzsprout - last week, 3,684 people started a podcast with Buzzsprout 

Notes & Links: 

1. Spotify Selling Vapourware Again!?

  • In June 2021, Spotify announced the Spotify Greenroom Creator Fund for US creators to “support and reward creators for the communities they build and the experiences they create”, as part of the launch of Spotify Greenroom. However, the fund never launched; and yesterday, Spotify emailed applicants, admitting that the program had been cancelled.

2. Gaming the Spotify Algorithm?

  • There’s a new global #1 - the Brazilian artist Anitta’s Envolver. How did Anitta do it? By apparently asking her fans to game the Spotify algorithms  - https://charts.spotify.com

3.  Spotify Moderation ?

  • Spotify has quietly rolled-out a new misinformation policy that says it may hide shows, or in their words “restrict content’s discoverability”. NiemanLab has discovered the company’s new rules, which Spotify have yet to announce: and nor have they added them to their public Platform Rules page.

  • The Brookings Institution has written a new document that highlights current platform policies, describes how Spotify and Apple allow listeners to report shows, and suggests areas that policy-makers might focus on.

4.  Spotify Curation?

  • How do the Spotify team decide which podcasts to promote? Spotify for Podcasters describes what you can do to be considered.

  • Higher Ground, Barack and Michelle Obama’s production company, is to leave Spotify, says Ashley Carman at Bloomberg

5. Goodbye Facebook Podcasts?

  • A year after it announced podcasts in its app and other audio tools, Facebook’s interest in podcasting is waning, according to Bloomberg’s Ashley Carman.

6. Buzzsprout YouTube Platform Specialist · Buzzsprout · Jacksonville, USA

email: comments@podland.news


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 2022-04-21  59m
 
 
00:01  James
Welcome to Portland.
00:02
The last word in
00:02
podcasting news.
00:04
It's Thursday, the
00:04
21st of April, 2022.
00:06
I'm James Cridland, the
00:06
editor of pod news.net.
00:09
And
00:09  Sam
I am Sam says
00:14  James
he is pod.
00:15
Land is sponsored by
00:15
Buzzsprout podcast.
00:17
Hosting made easy
00:17
last week, 3,684.
00:21
People started a podcast
00:21
with Buzzsprout and you
00:23
can too@buzzsprout.com.
00:25
And if you use chapters
00:25
in your podcast app, then
00:29
Buzzsprout supports those.
00:30
And so do we, and we also
00:30
support transcripts James.
00:33
We do also support transcripts
00:35  Sam
on this week's show.
00:36
What are we going to talk about?
00:37
Well, let's start off with
00:37
our Spotify selling more
00:41
vaporware again, James, it
00:41
feels, ah, in June, 2021.
00:45
Spotify announced the
00:45
Spotify greenroom creative
00:49
on that sounded exciting.
00:50
It was going to support
00:50
and reward creators and the
00:53
communities they build and
00:53
the experiences they created.
00:56
It said.
00:58
But sadly, I don't think
00:58
that fund ever paid out.
01:01
I don't think it's
01:01
now closed James.
01:03
Is that the fi I
01:03  James
think that's
01:03
pretty well it, yes.
01:05
So in terms of that, we saw a
01:05
pod news, a email, which was
01:10
being sent by, uh, Spotify and,
01:10
uh, what it basically said.
01:15
Yeah.
01:15
We're, we're, we're, we're
01:15
not doing that anymore.
01:17
Um, I've got, I've got a
01:17
statement here from Spotify.
01:20
The creative fund program
01:20
is evolving along with our
01:23
live audio strategy and
01:23
we'll shift towards other
01:25
initiatives for live creators.
01:27
We look forward to sharing
01:27
more in the future, says
01:30
somebody at Spotify to me.
01:32
Um, so, uh, yes, and I did
01:32
a little bit of digging to
01:36
discover that the website,
01:36
um, was very good at being
01:39
quietly changed to change
01:39
when this fund would launch.
01:43
And it seems that
01:43
it has never had.
01:45
Launched it all.
01:46
Um, Spotify of course, has
01:46
quite a track record of
01:49
doing this sort of thing.
01:50
Isn't it,
01:51  Sam
uh, bands that are never
01:51
actually pushed or going
01:55
live to podcasts that will,
01:55
or won't, uh, be created.
02:00
Um, I think.
02:01
Neither of us would have a
02:01
problem with any of this,
02:04
if it wasn't for the fact
02:04
that this affects a publicly
02:07
listed company share price.
02:09
And it seems the Spotify fund
02:09
for creative fund, uh, also
02:14
has shaped, affected the share
02:15  James
price as well.
02:16
James.
02:16
Yeah, I mean, I took a look on
02:16
launch day, um, in the middle
02:19
of June last year and Spotify,
02:19
you know, the announcement
02:23
of the greenroom creator
02:23
fund and the app allowed
02:26
Spotify to outperform them.
02:28
Um, and added around $60 million
02:28
to its market capitalization.
02:33
You kind of look at that and you
02:33
go, is there a strategy there,
02:36
which is essentially, we're just
02:36
going to announce stuff that
02:39
we have no plans in doing, or,
02:39
uh, you know, and, and isn't
02:43
that misleading the market.
02:44
And if that is misleading the
02:44
market and there isn't that
02:46
illegal, or is it just that.
02:49
Uh, you know, they have changed
02:49
their mind and they were
02:52
going to launch it and now
02:52
they're not going to launch it.
02:54
Um, maybe that's because Spotify
02:54
green room, you know, it hasn't
02:58
been an incredible success.
03:00
Um, just like a clubhouse
03:00
or fireside mark Cuban's
03:03
Farside uh, so perhaps, um,
03:03
you know, the plan is that
03:06
they just changed their mind
03:06
afterwards, but it's, um, you
03:10
know, they do have a track
03:10
record of announcing things
03:12
and they're not actually
03:12
following through anyone,
03:14  Sam
seen the Spotify HD.
03:16
Audio.
03:17
I'd love to see that
03:18  James
one.
03:19
Yes.
03:19
Spotify Hi-Fi yes.
03:21
I don't think that that,
03:21
that has happened yet.
03:23
Uh, yeah.
03:24
And there are various
03:24
other things as well.
03:26
And I think it, you know,
03:26
it's, it's, um, it's one
03:28
thing I think, to have
03:28
plans in the future.
03:30
It's another thing to, you
03:30
know, uh, Uh, send emails
03:35
out and do big announcements
03:35
and everything else.
03:38
You know, I mean, I, I got the
03:38
email at, um, 11 o'clock in the
03:42
evening, um, or one June day,
03:42
uh, basically telling me, uh,
03:46
oh yes, you know, we're going,
03:46
we're going to be doing this.
03:48
And we're going to be doing
03:48
this live, create a fund and
03:51
creators can sign up for more
03:51
information and everything else.
03:54
And so of course, you know,
03:54
the PR company, very keen that
03:56
I covered all of this stuff
03:56
and, uh, and that's fine.
04:00
You know, you kind of have to
04:00
launch it though, don't you?
04:03
Uh,
04:04  Sam
yeah.
04:04
Put your money
04:04
where your mouth is.
04:06
That's what I say.
04:07
Usually a good plan.
04:07
Yeah.
04:08
Now Spotify are also endangered
04:08
being manipulated the other way.
04:12
Maybe they manipulated the
04:12
market, but it seems that.
04:16
Brazilian artists and Nita's
04:16
involved has worked out how to
04:21
manipulate Spotify algorithms.
04:23
She's now the new
04:23
global number one.
04:25
I mean, it might've been for
04:25
about a nanosecond, but she was
04:28
number one across the globe.
04:31
Uh, and yeah, she did that by
04:31
giving instructions to her.
04:36
Well, I guess her fans, how
04:36
to inflate the streaming
04:38
numbers so that they could
04:38
actually gain the system.
04:41
Yeah,
04:42  James
exactly.
04:42
So it's, it's quite, it's
04:42
quite cool, you know, and
04:44
he says fans were basically
04:44
sharing information about,
04:48
you know, don't just play
04:48
that track on repeat,
04:50
because if you do Spotify,
04:50
doesn't count it as a stream.
04:52
They think it's a bot.
04:53
So you need to go and create a
04:53
playlist with different tracks.
04:56
All of this information
04:56
as to how, um, the
05:00
Spotify algorithm works.
05:02
Um, other people have
05:02
done it as well, but, uh,
05:04
interesting to see, um, and
05:04
he says, uh, fans, you know,
05:08
very brazenly, uh, doing it.
05:11
Anita has said.
05:13
Uh, that she was shocked by,
05:13
uh, becoming number one and
05:18  Sam
number one, sorry.
05:20  James
And it drops a
05:20
second in the chart by
05:22
the end of the weekend.
05:23
And a week later it was a fifth
05:23
position and blah, blah, blah.
05:27
Uh, so yeah, you know,
05:27
interesting to see, I'm
05:29
not necessarily saying,
05:29
and I don't think anybody's
05:31
saying that Anita.
05:32
I was doing this.
05:34
Um, it may just have been,
05:34
you know, um, excited fans
05:37
who have worked out how to
05:37
manipulate Spotify, but it's
05:41
always interesting to see
05:41
how that kind of stuff works.
05:44  Sam
Yeah.
05:44
If you want to go and see
05:44
it's a separate website called
05:47
charts.spotify.com and it
05:47
gives you the global as well
05:52
as the country-specific charts.
05:55
Every track.
05:56
It's quite an interesting site.
05:57
Most people don't know about it.
05:59
Yeah.
05:59  James
Yeah.
06:00  Sam
Now Spotify again, still
06:00
in the news, James, um, a
06:04
bit of Spotify moderation.
06:06
Um, first and foremost,
06:06
I think you've found that
06:09
Spotify has quietly rolled out
06:09
a new misinformation policy
06:13
that says it may hide shows
06:13
or in their words, restrict
06:16
content discoverability.
06:18
Tell me more.
06:19  James
Yeah, this was a piece
06:19
by Joshua Benton in Neiman's.
06:23
And, you know, really
06:23
interesting piece where Joshua
06:26
had actually done some proper,
06:26
um, techie, uh, viewing of
06:30
the source code of Spotify
06:30
to discover what these new
06:33
rules are, which, um, uh, good
06:33
for him, uh, in doing that.
06:36
Um, but, uh, yeah,
06:36
it's um, a new rule.
06:40
Um, which is talking
06:40
about restricting
06:43
contents discoverability.
06:45
Uh, so when content comes
06:45
close to the line, but
06:47
doesn't meet the threshold of
06:47
removal under their platform
06:51
rules, they may take steps to
06:51
restrict and limit its reach.
06:54
So to basically hide
06:54
it from searches.
06:58
And things like that.
06:59
So really interesting,
06:59
uh, piece and some good
07:02
work from Joshua Benton.
07:04
There
07:05  Sam
is this actually live
07:05
or is this something that
07:07
they going to be doing?
07:08  James
So this is something
07:08
that is live in certain
07:11
bits of the Spotify website.
07:14
It's not yet live in the
07:14
big platform rules that you
07:17
see linked from all over
07:17
the place as a general rule.
07:21
They don't necessarily
07:21
comment on this sort of thing.
07:24
Um, probably doesn't
07:24
change what the.
07:27
Rules are, to be honest, it's
07:27
just basically saying that we
07:31
might hide some, some staff
07:31
if, uh, if it's a bit too.
07:35
To the line, but you know,
07:35
again, interesting seeing that
07:38
Spotify are making changes.
07:40  Sam
Yeah.
07:40
Well, I only say that because,
07:40
you know, we have in the past
07:43
talked about, oh God, we're
07:43
going to get 'em out in Curry.
07:47
Giving us grief.
07:48
Now we have talked about in
07:48
the past, uh, sites should
07:52
be moderating content.
07:54
If the content itself is
07:54
like Joe Rogan did in the
07:59
past misinforming, or if
07:59
it's actually hate speech,
08:04
Now we, we also interviewed
08:04
in the past, somebody called
08:07
Valerie virtue after from
08:07
the Brookings Institute.
08:10
And she's also written a
08:10
new document, uh, talking
08:15
about how platforms and their
08:15
policies, uh, should be, I
08:20
guess, restricting content,
08:20
uh, and their discoverability,
08:24
which is what it looks like.
08:26
Spotify is quietly doing here.
08:28
Um, she said a great reckoning
08:28
has arrived for content
08:32
moderation in podcasts.
08:34
What speech should
08:34
be permitted and what
08:36
speech should be shared.
08:37
She says, and what principals
08:37
should inform those decisions.
08:40
Uh, I guess it's time for
08:40
the platforms to step up.
08:44
Did you have a full
08:44
read of that document?
08:47
Yeah.
08:47
I mean,
08:47  James
it's an interesting read.
08:48
Part of it is basically
08:48
explaining what podcast
08:53
platforms are currently doing in
08:53
terms of content moderation and
08:57
in terms of how you deal with,
08:57
you know, uh, reporting, um,
09:01
uh, stories and reporting, uh,
09:01
episodes that aren't necessary.
09:05
Real and, you know, and,
09:05
um, and have the right
09:09
information in them.
09:10
Um, the problem is of
09:10
course, what one person's
09:13
right information is another
09:13
person's misinformation.
09:15
And so therefore, you
09:15
know, you've got all of
09:17
that kind of issues there.
09:19
One of the things though that,
09:19
um, the piece then goes on to
09:22
talk about is the Santa Clara
09:22
principles and the Santa Clara
09:25
principles are rather lovely.
09:27
What they basically are,
09:27
is a list of things that
09:31
companies should be reporting.
09:33
If they are censoring content or
09:33
taking content down or whatever.
09:39
So actually the Santa Clara
09:39
principles look pretty good.
09:42
Um, and, um, what's the
09:42
Brookings institution article
09:45
is busy talking about is that
09:45
w that everybody should at
09:48
least, uh, report when they
09:48
are hiding stuff and removing
09:53
stuff and why they removed
09:53
that sort of stuff anyway.
09:57
And I think that that's
09:57
probably absolutely
09:59
fair enough if you will.
10:01
A completely uncensored,
10:01
uh, podcast index.
10:04
Then there are those out there.
10:06
The podcast index itself,
10:06
uh, is one of those.
10:09
Um, if you want to use
10:09
something which has been, um,
10:15
you know, censored or filtered
10:15
in some way, then, um, uh,
10:18
you know, you can use apple,
10:18
you can use Spotify, you
10:21
can use other ones as well.
10:22
I think as long as you know,
10:22
what is being censored or
10:26
filter it out, then I think
10:26
that that's very helpful.
10:28
Yeah, I'll put, uh,
10:29  Sam
a link to the article
10:29
from the Brookings Institute
10:32
in our show notes, but it
10:32
was a couple of bits that I
10:34
highlighted, which I thought was
10:34
quite interesting as a result.
10:37
The main question facing
10:37
podcasting apps is not
10:40
what content are hosts and
10:40
publish, but instead what
10:44
content to play at amplify.
10:46
So I guess that's a
10:46
moderation decision.
10:49
Um, and the last bit I did
10:49
like was it was a state.
10:52
It was, it was a
10:52
phrase, I suppose.
10:55
Um, she called it, um, Should
10:55
you share lawful content, even
11:00
though it's awful content.
11:01
And I quite like that,
11:01
that was tickled me.
11:04
Yes.
11:04
Lawful, but
11:05  James
all things lawful,
11:05
but awful is quite nice.
11:08
Yeah.
11:08
I mean, even on podcast
11:08
index, for example,
11:11
there is, um, some for.
11:13
Filtering going on.
11:15
If you do a search for
11:15
particular podcasts, then
11:18
particular podcasts are
11:18
highlighted as number one
11:21
in particular podcasts.
11:22
Aren't.
11:23
And that is a form of filtering.
11:25
That's a form of someone
11:25
telling the search engine
11:28
what to prioritize and
11:28
what not to prioritize.
11:31
Uh, if you go to the podcast
11:31
index and you do a search
11:34
for pod news, much to my
11:34
irritation, there's a German
11:37
website that hasn't published
11:37
a new episode in 15 years.
11:41
But they still end up
11:41
being number one and I
11:45
end up being number two.
11:46
I think that that's a bit
11:46
weird, but that is a choice
11:49
that the podcast index has
11:49
made to put that particular
11:52
podcast at number one and the
11:52
pod news podcast, number two
11:55
for a search for pod news.
11:57
And there are very good
11:57
reasons why it works that way.
12:00
But again, you know, I, I
12:00
don't think you can end up
12:03
with something, which is a
12:03
completely, um, anything goes
12:08
blank, blank slate type of,
12:08
uh, of directory, because
12:12
you will always get those
12:12
sorts of algorithms there.
12:15
And this is what, you know,
12:15
she talks about as well in
12:17
this piece is, you know, if
12:17
you're using YouTube, what
12:22
is being promoted to you
12:22
underneath the video that
12:25
you are currently working on?
12:27
That's very much.
12:28
Um, from an algorithm and
12:28
that's a very different
12:31
conversation to, is something
12:31
in the directory or outside
12:34
it, is it being promoted as a
12:34
very different conversation?
12:37
So, yeah, I think that's
12:37
all, that's all interesting.
12:39
Hmm.
12:40  Sam
Well, moving on, it seems
12:40
the Obamas won't be listed
12:43
anymore in the, uh, Spotify
12:43
directory, at least not as an
12:47
exclusive, uh, they're on the
12:47
move, James, where they often,
12:51  James
well, we don't know.
12:52
According to Ashley
12:52
Carmen at Bloomberg.
12:55
Uh, Barack and Michelle
12:55
Obama's a production
12:58
company is to leave Spotify.
13:00
This is actually a story that
13:00
came from business insider
13:03
in early February, where the
13:03
Obama's were already saying
13:07
at that point that they found
13:07
it hard to get some of their
13:10
ideas for shows accepted
13:10
by Spotify management.
13:13
They continue, they continue
13:13
to look for a renewal partner.
13:17
Um, and, and you can kind of
13:17
understand to be honest, Um,
13:21
where Spotify is coming from.
13:23
If the story is true, if someone
13:23
was to come to me and say,
13:27
I've got this great idea for a
13:27
podcast, I'd like, you know, X,
13:30
million dollars for it, please.
13:32
And it's eight episodes, then
13:32
I'll be saying, do I really
13:36
want an eight episode podcast?
13:37
Cause they don't work very well.
13:39
Eight episode podcasts.
13:40
If you've got to make a
13:40
podcast for me, make a
13:43
podcast for me, which is
13:43
every week for two years.
13:45
And that that's, that's how you
13:45
make a big success, not an eight
13:49
episode podcast that then goes
13:49
away after up to two months.
13:53
So I can kind of understand
13:53
Spotify is point of view there.
13:57
Um, but, uh, yeah.
13:58
So who will they sign work?
13:59
Will they sign with Amazon?
14:01
Will they sign with
14:01
Sirius XM where they
14:03
sign with iHeart radio?
14:04
Will they sign with, um, you
14:04
know, Evo terror who knows?
14:09
Who knows who they can assign
14:11  Sam
or will you be announcing
14:11
them as the new members of pod
14:14  James
news?
14:15
Well, there's a thing.
14:16
The pod news network, if,
14:16
if Barrack is listening,
14:22
I mean, normally we joke
14:22
and say, you know, oh, they
14:25
won't be listening and then
14:25
it turns out, but they are.
14:27
So it's probably the case
14:27
that Barack is listening.
14:29
And in which case, hello, um,
14:35  Sam
Now the question I, uh,
14:35
I wanted to ask, is it two
14:38
parts, really James, on this
14:38
first and foremost, um, is this
14:41
showing that exclusive don't
14:41
work, um, uh, and that they
14:45
were just a blip in the timeline
14:45
of podcasting or do exclusive,
14:50
still work, you know, how.
14:52
The Barrack Obama, Michelle
14:52
Obama podcast driven a
14:56
significant number of new
14:56
subscriptions to Spotify.
15:00
And if they then leave the
15:00
Spotify platform, will that
15:04
audience also leave Spotify?
15:06
So is it a momentary blip
15:06
or, you know, where do you
15:10
think the exclusives sit
15:10
within the world of podcasts?
15:15  James
W, I mean, one would
15:15
assume that Barack Obama
15:17
wants to be, and Michelle
15:17
Obama wants to be thought
15:21
leaders in the world and you
15:21
can't be a thought leader.
15:26
If you hide your work away
15:26
are under a subscription.
15:31
Um, this, by the way is
15:31
one of the problems that I
15:33
have now linking to Ashley.
15:35
Carmen's great work at Bloomberg
15:35
is that I can't link to
15:37
Bloomberg because Bloomberg
15:37
has, um, a very, very small
15:42
amount of free articles after
15:42
which it just hides the entire
15:46
story, but Bloomberg stories are
15:46
republished all over the place.
15:49
So I normally find
15:49
somewhere else, but that's
15:51
one of the problems here.
15:53
So either you can be a
15:53
thought leader and you can be.
15:56
All you can be in it for the
15:56
money, in which case, you
15:59
know, go for exclusives because
15:59
that's where you're going to
16:01
get some of the money from some
16:01
of the, um, podcast companies.
16:05
I don't think you can be both
16:05
a thought leader and someone
16:08
who is earning a ton of cash.
16:10  Sam
But I think that is
16:10
what Wondery tries to do.
16:12
It tries to have this sort
16:12
of pseudo exclusive stroke,
16:16
a wide distribution strategy.
16:19
So they'll say we'll produce
16:19
a great piece of content.
16:22
Two weeks or wondering
16:22
if you use wandery plus,
16:25
but then it's going to be
16:25
everywhere after two weeks.
16:27
So they're trying
16:27
to play both sides,
16:29  James
I guess.
16:30
Yeah.
16:30
And I can see that.
16:31
And I think also, you know,
16:31
Barack and Michelle Obama's
16:34
staff has also been doing that.
16:36
Uh, it was, uh, three months
16:36
exclusive on Spotify and then
16:40
appeared everywhere else.
16:42
Now, the question is why,
16:42
um, some people tell me that.
16:46
Um, it's because the
16:46
Obama's were very upset
16:49
about being exclusive and
16:49
not available outside of
16:53
the Spotify ecosystem.
16:55
Um, other people tell me that
16:55
the advertisers were really
16:58
annoyed, that they didn't get
16:58
as much coverage as they thought
17:01
that they were going to get.
17:02
I don't know what the answer is.
17:04
Um, but I've heard both of
17:04
those particular rumors.
17:07
Um, but it comes back to,
17:07
you know, if, if you are
17:10
a thought leader, Um, then
17:10
signing an exclusive contract.
17:13
Isn't particularly a good plan.
17:15
I mean, how about have a look
17:15
at Brenae brown and have a look
17:18
at the sales of her book after
17:18
she moved to become an exclusive
17:23
podcast or with Spotify, and you
17:23
can see that that was not good
17:27
business sense for a bookseller,
17:27
um, you know, probably great
17:31
business sense for her.
17:33
You know, financially
17:33
because she got a big wads
17:35
of cash from Spotify, you
17:35
would, you would assume, but
17:38
if you're there trying to
17:38
also sell books, it didn't
17:41
necessarily work too well.
17:42
So perhaps that's part
17:42
of the thinking here.
17:44
Um,
17:45  Sam
one of the things I did
17:45
note was they won't be taking
17:49
their Spotify shows with them.
17:50
If they do move from Spotify,
17:50
uh, a new deal, uh, Spotify
17:56
we'll keep the master
17:56
recordings and the feed.
18:00
So wherever they do, they don't
18:00
own the IP to those recordings.
18:05  James
Yeah.
18:05
And I think that's, that's
18:05
the typical way that a
18:07
normal contract like this
18:07
works, you know, you,
18:10
you end up buying the IP.
18:12
You don't just buy a
18:12
limited use of the IP.
18:15
Now, Joe Rogan is different.
18:17
Joe Rogan is a licensing
18:17
deal and Joe Rogan is
18:20
a licensing deal fault.
18:21
Um, whatever it is, three.
18:22
Um, and after that one
18:22
would presume that Spotify
18:26
don't keep the IP because
18:26
it's a licensing deal for
18:28
that, for that three years.
18:30
In terms of this, you know,
18:30
Spotify was playing a different
18:34
game here, uh, in terms of,
18:34
um, whether or not they would
18:38
buy the full, um, the full IP.
18:41
Well,
18:41  Sam
maybe the BBC should take
18:42  James
note that, well, maybe
18:42
the BBC should, but again,
18:45
either you come at this, like a.
18:48
Normal ICAST publisher.
18:50
And you, um, and you just
18:50
hope that you get enough
18:53
listens to get enough
18:53
adverts in your podcast, or
18:57
you come at this, um, like
18:57
a Spotify, um, podcaster
19:02
and you have this great big
19:02
watch of money up front.
19:05
And that's lovely.
19:07
But it's Spotify
19:07
taking a punt on you.
19:09
And I think, you know, there
19:09
are good reasons why you would
19:12
want to do it either way.
19:13
And clearly the BBC ends
19:13
up giving you a big watch
19:16
of money up front, because
19:16
it can't necessarily do
19:18
anything, uh, anywhere else,
19:18
um, to expect the BBC to.
19:23
Uh, leave the IP with the,
19:23
with the podcaster after giving
19:26
them a big bunch of money
19:26
is, you know, I don't know.
19:29
I'm not sure how
19:29
realistic that is.
19:32  Sam
Well, at one place we
19:32
know they won't be going
19:34
is Facebook or Metta or
19:34
whatever new incarnation they
19:38
will be called next week.
19:40
Uh, it seems Ashley Carmen
19:40
has been very busy again.
19:43
Uh, she says that, uh, she's
19:43
had a little dig around and
19:47
it seems that Facebook's
19:47
lost interest in podcasting.
19:50
Um, and I know you noted that,
19:50
uh, I Reena lamb, who was
19:55
the person who came out with
19:55
all the announcements around
19:58
Facebook's podcast creator
19:58
program is now working on
20:02
music and building a music.
20:04
Product for Facebook.
20:06
So, yeah.
20:06
So she's even moved on.
20:08
Does it, does it worry you
20:08
that Facebook has gone into
20:10
this market and not really
20:10
delivered and moved off
20:13
or, or, you know, I mean,
20:15
it
20:15  James
just seems strange
20:15
that Facebook will go into the
20:17
market would, would dip a toe
20:17
in, because they only, um, did
20:21
podcasting for the U S market.
20:24
Um, They would dip a toe in
20:24
and they will go, oh, well,
20:28
what does this feel like?
20:29
And then, you know, maybe
20:29
they were scared away with the
20:32
content moderation conversations
20:32
that Joe Rogan had been, um,
20:37
you know, scaring the rest of
20:37
us with, or maybe they were
20:39
scared away with something else.
20:41
I don't know.
20:41
Or maybe it was a, it was
20:41
an issue with accessibility
20:45
and they thought that
20:45
that was a legal issue.
20:47
Who knows why they've turned
20:47
around and said no, but it
20:49
does seem quite sad that
20:49
a company that has 1.4.
20:54
Billion visitors every day.
20:56
That's how big Facebook is.
20:58
That could have been amazingly
20:58
big for podcasting and it's.
21:02
Disappointment that all of
21:02
a sudden they've gone quiet.
21:05
They've um, basically not
21:05
particularly interested
21:08
in podcasting anymore.
21:10
Um, and, uh, seemingly pulling
21:10
out of that sort of thing.
21:14
Um, you know, uh, I, I
21:14
wonder whether part of that
21:18
is, um, another, you know,
21:18
Facebook obviously had, had
21:21
also got their own version of
21:21
green room, uh, live audio.
21:26
And I wonder whether part
21:26
of that was just that,
21:28
that wasn't going anywhere.
21:30
And so they felt that, uh,
21:30
you know, uh, that they
21:33
wanted to pull back from that.
21:34
And we're reading a
21:34
little bit too much into
21:36
it in terms of podcasts.
21:37
I don't know.
21:38
But, um, yeah, it's just,
21:38
it's just a bit sad to see
21:41
Facebook not actually doing.
21:43
Doing anything there and
21:43
sad to see YouTube remaining
21:47
a little bit quiet on
21:47
their, on their plans as
21:49
well.
21:50  Sam
Yeah.
21:50
I mean, we were surprised
21:50
at podcast at podcast
21:53
movement evolutions at
21:53
Facebook, weren't there to
21:55
say anything or do anything,
21:55
I guess this explains it.
21:59
Um, and I've always said
21:59
that the way they implemented
22:01
podcasting was wrong, they,
22:01
they put it on a Facebook page
22:05
rather than a Facebook group.
22:07
Um, yeah.
22:08
It never worked for me anyway.
22:10
All right, moving on then James
22:10
R iHeart media plans to triple
22:15
the amount of branded podcasts.
22:17
It creates a premium article
22:17
and other one behind the wall.
22:21
Um, in Adweek also gives
22:21
the rates for a branded
22:24
podcast with iHeart between
22:24
1 million and $2 million.
22:29
According to its chief
22:29
marketing officer in Gale trope.
22:32
So, I guess they're doubling
22:32
down on branded podcasts.
22:36  James
Yeah, I guess they are.
22:37
And I guess that makes sense
22:37
if your iHeart media, you're
22:39
talking to lots of advertisers,
22:39
lots of brands anyway.
22:43
And so actually this is the,
22:43
exactly the way of leveraging
22:46
the benefit that you have
22:46
in your massive sales team.
22:50
By focusing on producing
22:50
branded podcasts, which is a
22:53
hot thing right now, isn't it.
22:55
So, um, you know, I mean
22:55
charging between one and
22:57
$2 million for a branded
22:57
podcast is interesting.
23:01
Um, I'm sure that we would
23:01
do it for only 750,000 Sam.
23:06
I'm sure we'll be fine.
23:09
But I think, um, yeah, I
23:09
mean, it, it kind of, it
23:12
kind of almost makes sense
23:12
that they would do that.
23:14
Yeah.
23:14  Sam
Well, well, let's
23:14
watch this space and see
23:15
how many people take it up
23:15
that one to 2 million offer.
23:20
James, our podcast too long,
23:20
a snippet.fm is a short-form
23:26
podcast network and their CEO,
23:26
Tyler Russell says, uh, that
23:31
yeah, he thinks that podcast
23:31
should be about 20 minutes.
23:34
The old story of
23:34
how long should a
23:36  James
podcast be the old story?
23:39
Indeed.
23:40
I think Tony Russell
23:40
McCusker has gotten.
23:44
Point here in terms of, um,
23:44
in terms of podcasts, I think
23:47
that there are quite a few
23:47
podcasts which are quite long
23:49
and quite flabby as you know,
23:49
one of the things that I, uh,
23:53
try and push for forum on this
23:53
podcast is to keep it tight
23:56
and, um, you know, and to
23:56
respect the time of our audience
23:59
as much as we possibly can.
24:01
Um, and I think that, you
24:01
know, He's got a point there.
24:04
It's interesting that
24:04
he's using, um, technology
24:07
to help fix that.
24:08
Uh, but he's an ex radio person
24:08
and he understands the benefit
24:11
of, um, of, uh, tightness
24:11
and, um, you know, uh, moving
24:14
on and I, and I think that's
24:14
always interesting, um, the
24:18
correct answer of course,
24:18
to how long a podcast should
24:20
be, is as long as it needs to
24:20
be, but not a second longer.
24:26
And that's the secret, um, yeah.
24:28
That, uh, or as Valerie gala,
24:28
who is a great, uh, radio
24:31
and podcast, uh, trainer,
24:31
uh, would end up saying
24:35
there is no such thing as
24:35
too long, only too boring.
24:38
Uh, which is absolutely correct.
24:40  Sam
Well, I suppose if
24:40
you could have a look at
24:42
your apple connect stats,
24:42
it'll tell you where your
24:44
audience drops off as well.
24:46  James
Yes, indeed.
24:46
Either your apple connect
24:46
stats or your stats from.
24:49
Podcast has oriented, um, uh,
24:49
in the Google podcast manager.
24:52
Yeah.
24:52
There's lots of data
24:52
to help you there.
24:54
So check
24:55  Sam
out snippet.fm.
24:57
If you want to have a
24:57
short form podcast network.
24:59
Now I added this story
24:59
to the script this week.
25:03
James, not because, um, I think
25:03
his podcast directly related.
25:07
I do think there's a lesson that
25:07
podcasting can learn from it.
25:10
It seems that Netflix is
25:10
losing subscribers for the
25:15
first time in 10 years.
25:17
Now, when I, when I saw that and
25:17
I read the story, um, it wasn't
25:21
exactly that many subscribes,
25:21
they lost 200,000 subscribers,
25:26
but in the big scheme of things,
25:26
that's not that many, but of
25:30
course it is a trend that's
25:30
gone against where they've
25:33
normally gone, which is growth.
25:35
And I think.
25:36
Uh, with Tom Webster,
25:36
with the infinite dial.
25:40
I know you tweeted the photo
25:40
of the chart that Tom Webster
25:45
posted at podcast movement.
25:47
So is this just the industry of
25:47
all people just saying, look.
25:51
Lockdowns finished.
25:53
We're going out to play
25:53
and subscribe as both in
25:55
podcasting and in Netflix are
25:55
dropping or is there something
25:59
else behind these stories?
26:00
Well,
26:00  James
I think there is a
26:00
lot of change in the media
26:03
landscape at the moment.
26:04
And, uh, I can well see that
26:04
people are waking up and
26:08
going, you know what we're
26:08
paying for an awful lot.
26:10
We've, we've signed up to an
26:10
awful lot of these paid for, uh,
26:14
TV, uh, systems, uh, last year.
26:17
Um, and we should
26:17
cancel a few of them.
26:19
Um, I can, well, see that
26:19
that's, uh, that makes sense.
26:23
And similarly, um, with, uh,
26:23
Edison research has infinite
26:26
dial data that came out in the
26:26
podcast movement, um, where
26:31
that showed a slight drop
26:31
in the number of people who
26:34
are listening to podcasts.
26:36
Again, I think that that is
26:36
explained away by saying that
26:38
that's people going back to
26:38
work, going back to school
26:41
and literally not having
26:41
the time, the some new data
26:44
that's come out from off calm.
26:46
Um, Uh, today, which is
26:46
around podcast consumption
26:50
and everything else.
26:51
One of the questions it
26:51
asks is why did you stop
26:55
listening to podcasts?
26:57
And the answer?
26:59
Uh, the number one answer is
26:59
I can't find any podcasts that
27:01
interest me, but the number two
27:01
answer is I don't have enough
27:03
time to listen to podcasts.
27:05
And I think that
27:05
that's a big thing.
27:07
29% of people said that they
27:07
stopped listening to podcasts
27:10
because it don't have enough.
27:11
Uh, again, it comes back to
27:11
that previous conversation
27:13
we were having about how
27:13
long a podcast should be.
27:16
So, um, yeah, so I think, I
27:16
think, you know what we're
27:19
probably seeing with Netflix,
27:19
what we're probably seeing
27:22
with, um, uh, the infinite
27:22
dial and what I suspect
27:26
that we will see with other.
27:28
Bits of data over the next
27:28
six months or so is we'll
27:32
actually see a slight
27:32
cooling in the amount of,
27:35
on demand media, which is
27:35
being consumed because people
27:38
have more of a life again.
27:40
And I think that that's
27:40
probably a good thing.
27:42  Sam
Well, Reed Hastings,
27:42
the CEO of Netflix said, or
27:45
it, the chairman now I think.
27:48
They may be considering adding
27:48
ads to the Netflix platform.
27:53
He says it works for
27:53
Hulu and Netflix will
27:55
adopt a similar model.
27:57
He's also looking at
27:57
charging $3, uh, an extra
28:01
fee on top to use those who
28:01
share their accounts with
28:04
people in other households.
28:06
How are they going
28:06
to track that?
28:08
That will be interesting,
28:08
but I clearly understand that
28:11
people are just giving over
28:11
their accounts to other people
28:14
and they just logging in using
28:14
it, consuming it and logging.
28:18
So they have
28:20  James
a problem.
28:20
Yeah, I can, I could
28:20
absolutely see that.
28:24
Um, I think also I've found a
28:24
great quote from Reed Hastings.
28:28
This is back in 2018 and he
28:28
was saying he sees Netflix
28:33
is competition has literally
28:33
anything with a screen.
28:37
And he was saying back
28:37
in 2018, we compete with,
28:40
and we lose two fortnight
28:40
much more than we do HP.
28:45
Um, and so the point here is
28:45
that actually, um, you know,
28:50
he, he, he sees competition as,
28:50
just as just being time more
28:53
than more than anything else.
28:55
And I, I think that, um,
28:55
there's lots to learn from,
28:58
for the podcast industry.
29:00
One of the things that worries
29:00
me about podcast companies
29:03
like a cast, for example, who
29:03
is they're fighting against
29:07
other podcasts companies and
29:07
trying to win business from
29:10
the likes of Buzzsprout or
29:10
blueberry or Libsyn or anybody
29:14
else is that actually that
29:14
that's a carnivorous activity.
29:18
That's not going
29:18
to help anybody.
29:19
Whereas what we really want
29:19
is we really need more,
29:22
more of a growth plan into
29:22
all of podcasting rather
29:26
than, um, trying to fight.
29:29
Um, in between ourselves
29:29
for individual, you know,
29:32
podcast, um, you know,
29:32
individual podcasts companies,
29:36
none of that makes sense.
29:37
I think we should be
29:37
growing the industry and
29:39
that, and that's something
29:39
that we should be focusing
29:41  Sam
on.
29:41
The subscriber growth, uh, has
29:41
taken, uh, an estimated $45
29:48
billion of the value of Netflix.
29:50
Uh, I think you're right
29:50
James time and attention.
29:53
The, uh, two limited values
29:53
that, uh, you can't pay for.
29:58  James
Yeah, indeed.
29:59
And, uh, very difficult to
29:59
get more of that per week.
30:02
Um, you know, that's a
30:02
very difficult thing.
30:05  Sam
Now, moving on, uh, the
30:05
Parcast union has ratified it's
30:09
first a union contract with the
30:09
writers Guild of America east.
30:14
It means that pay rises
30:14
for the employees as well
30:17
as diversity commitments
30:17
have been reached in York.
30:21
Um, otherwise I think
30:21
they were going to go on
30:23
strike reading the article.
30:25
It seems the 56 member
30:25
group, uh, stuck together
30:29
and pledged to strike if they
30:29
didn't get what they wanted.
30:33
So is this a good
30:33
thing for the industry,
30:34  James
James?
30:35
I mean, I think it certainly.
30:37
Yeah.
30:37
Um, good to see that, um,
30:37
Parcast, uh, is, um, listening
30:43
to its employees a bit more
30:43
and, um, doing some good things
30:48
like, uh, making sure that,
30:48
uh, there are, there are decent
30:52
raises for those employees to
30:52
bring them up to the industry
30:56
standard payment, uh, which I
30:56
think makes a bunch of sense.
31:00
There are.
31:01
Quite a few things that the
31:01
union wanted and got, and some
31:05
things that the union didn't,
31:05
uh, get, uh, particularly
31:09
around IP ownership and rights.
31:11
But then of course,
31:11
you know, we've just
31:13
had that conversation.
31:14
Um, if you're working for
31:14
somebody and somebody else is
31:17
taking the risk for you, then
31:17
it's a little bit much to also
31:21
ask, um, for the benefits.
31:23
Of all of that risk too.
31:25
So, uh, yeah, so I can, I can
31:25
kind of, uh, see that, but, um,
31:29
yeah, it's interesting now that,
31:29
that now means that, um, the
31:33
writers Guild of America east
31:33
is both, um, is both working
31:38
with the Parcast union as well.
31:40
Yeah.
31:41
At Gimlet media and
31:41
the ringer as well.
31:44
They're also working at
31:44
iHeart radio as well,
31:47
which, um, it should be an
31:47
interesting conversation too.
31:51
So lots of unionization stories
31:51
going on in the U S as well.
31:56
I mean, obviously
31:56
Amazon is having its
31:57
unionization story as well.
31:59
And so, um, you know,
31:59
interesting to see
32:02
what comes out of that.
32:04
And, uh, you know, the,
32:04
the industry is, you know,
32:07
historically been a very.
32:09
Um, startup focused industry,
32:09
which has had certain things
32:13
that it wants to aim for a
32:13
niche and not necessarily
32:17
seeing the employee as
32:17
the most important thing.
32:20
And actually, you know,
32:20
employees are pretty important.
32:23
Uh, it turns out, I think
32:25  Sam
if you look at what we've
32:25
been talking about today,
32:27
it seems that IP ownership
32:27
is pretty critical now
32:31
within contracts exclusive.
32:34
People's time and attention.
32:36
And in this case, uh,
32:36
people's ownership of
32:39
their, their content.
32:41
Um, yeah, I think
32:41
it's interesting.
32:44
We'll see where the Spotify who
32:44
say they won't budge on this
32:47
IP ownership and derivative
32:47
rights will, uh, find the union
32:51
coming back for a second hit at
32:52  James
them.
32:53
Yeah, but I, I also think, you
32:53
know, I mean, again, if, if you
32:57
pay me a salary, Um, then, um,
32:57
uh, at the end of the day, what
33:02
do you pay me the salary for?
33:04
You're paying me the salary
33:04
to come up with ideas, which
33:06
you can go away and sell.
33:08
I have an interesting
33:08
relationship with unions
33:11
because I I'm there on one
33:11
side thinking, well, you
33:14
know, a lot of what they say
33:14
makes an awful lot of sense,
33:17
but then on the other side,
33:17
a lot of what they say is.
33:20
Sort of relatively unworkable
33:20
when it comes to actually
33:23
running a business and you
33:23
know, you can't run a business,
33:26
but also let your employees
33:26
just run away with things
33:29
that you have paid them to
33:29
come up with in, in, in the
33:33
time that you have paid them.
33:35
Um, they can't just run
33:35
away with that and take
33:38
that to a competitor.
33:39
That's not that that's not
33:39
how you run a business.
33:41
I don't really understand
33:41
how that bit works.
33:43
If you, if you want
33:43
to do your own thing.
33:46
Do your own thing.
33:47
So working for the man
33:47
and do your own thing.
33:51
So, um, yeah, but maybe that's
33:51
just because I've worked for
33:54
myself for the last 13 years
33:54
and, um, and I have a different,
33:57
a different view on these things
33:59  Sam
now loops in the parent
33:59
company to advertise cost.
34:03
Not good news.
34:04
James has had it's trading
34:04
in shares suspended by
34:07
the sec seems the company
34:07
hasn't filed financial
34:10
reports for any period.
34:13
Since September the 30th,
34:13
2020, the company has appointed
34:17
a new CFO, uh, to try and
34:17
help sort this stuff out.
34:20
What's going on at Libsyn.
34:22  James
Well, what is
34:22
going on at Libsyn?
34:24
I mean, we've known that
34:24
this is likely to have
34:27
happened for some time.
34:30
Um, but, uh, Libsyn have been
34:30
doing some, you know, strange
34:34
old things recently, uh, in
34:34
terms of their, uh, finances,
34:38
there's been a complicated.
34:41
Um, a conversation going on
34:41
around some Chinese, um, uh,
34:47
stakeholders that they have.
34:50
Um, and, uh, back in
34:50
February, the sec said that
34:55
Libsyn had been delinquent
34:55
with its financial filings.
34:58
I love the STCs, uh, words.
35:01
They seem to use very long words
35:01
when they don't necessarily
35:04
need to, but still there we are.
35:06
Um, and so, you know, I mean,
35:06
back in February, Libsyn was.
35:11
Perhaps it'll mean that stock
35:11
in the company might not be able
35:13
to be traded, but the company
35:13
said back then, And that it's
35:17
working closely with external
35:17
counsel, independent auditors
35:20
and tax experts to as promptly
35:20
as practicable finalize and file
35:25
the outstanding exchange acts
35:25
reports and any reports that
35:28
become due subsequently, um, uh,
35:28
Libsyn, uh, sponsoring, um, pod
35:35
news in February when I reported
35:35
that and, uh, listens, advertise
35:39
casts, supporting pod news.
35:41
When I'm now reporting
35:41
about their shares being.
35:45
Being suspended.
35:46
And I think it's a bit
35:46
of a financial theater.
35:49
I don't necessarily
35:49
think, um, that it's, uh,
35:52
anything worse than that.
35:54
Um, and I don't think there's
35:54
any worry about, uh, the
35:58
Libsyn, um, uh, company at all.
36:01
Um, so, uh, it would
36:01
just be nice, um, for
36:05
Libsyn to get there.
36:06
To get their accounts in order.
36:08
But, you know, having said
36:08
that, I, um, you know, I,
36:11
I do my accounts every now
36:11
and again, and I hate doing
36:13
my accounts and I sure
36:13
hates doing their accounts
36:16  Sam
too, but they pay
36:16
someone to do that.
36:19
James has called an accountant.
36:20
Yes,
36:20  James
they do.
36:21
They pay, they pay somebody
36:21
and they've always had all
36:25
kinds of issues because
36:25
they didn't pay any VAT in
36:27
Europe for a long, long time.
36:28
And so that was a problem.
36:29
And, you know, it's,
36:29
it's just been a bit of
36:32
a catalog of, of oops.
36:34
Um, So hopefully the new
36:34
CFO that they hired, uh,
36:38
last year will, uh, help
36:38
solve sort that out.
36:41
He's a nice man called
36:41
Jonathan Charak and, um,
36:45
you know, Jonathan, uh,
36:45
has, uh, worked at, um, you
36:49
know, all kinds of other.
36:51
Interesting companies in, in
36:51
the past, including a renewable
36:56
energy and a cannabis company.
36:58
Um, so, uh, you know, he,
36:58
he will be very, uh, well
37:02
versed with, uh, how to
37:02
fix all of this stuff, but
37:05
it won't be an easy fix.
37:06
Certainly
37:07  Sam
be chilled out
37:07
about fixing it.
37:11  James
You go, here we go.
37:13
Tell her why you bothering man.
37:15
Don't know why it bothered
37:15
me also renewable.
37:18
Uh, telecommunications he's
37:18
worked in and, um, he, he used
37:23
to work as a fractional CFO.
37:26
I wonder what a
37:26
fractional CFO is.
37:28
That's a really
37:28
interesting part time.
37:30
Is that what it is?
37:30
Is that what it means?
37:33
Why don't they just say
37:33
part time instead of.
37:37
None of this.
37:38
None of this makes any sense.
37:39
It's like, it's like, um,
37:39
the SCCs phrasing, uh,
37:43
actually ended up saying,
37:43
I will quote it because
37:46
this is, this is the sec.
37:48
It is hereby ordered that
37:48
pursuant to section 12 J if the
37:52
exchange act the registration
37:52
of each class of respondents,
37:55
securities, registered pursuant
37:55
to exchange act, section
37:59
12, B and hereby is revoked.
38:02
I mean, you know what,
38:02
what, what's, what's wrong
38:04
with just using English.
38:06
You know, normal English rather
38:06
than all of this silly nonsense.
38:10
But anyway, I don't
38:11  Sam
get paid as much for,
38:11
for, unless it's silly English.
38:14
You must know that lots
38:14
of what lawyers do.
38:18  James
I think
38:18
you're right, right.
38:19
Yes.
38:20
Let's, let's uh, talking about,
38:20
uh, being, being quick and.
38:23
And, uh, and everything else.
38:25
Let's move on to some quick
38:25
things that we've got here.
38:27
Yeah.
38:27
A little
38:27  Sam
bit of quick news that
38:27
you've been writing about.
38:29
I thought we'd just highlight
38:29
plink is a service that makes
38:33
smart podcast links to shows and
38:33
episodes is turned three, says
38:38
it's found a Scott Matheson.
38:39
In fact, uh, you
38:39
said that pod news
38:42  James
uses it.
38:42
Yes.
38:42
Potty news has a page
38:42
on there and it's a very
38:45
good little service.
38:47
Um, it helps you find
38:47
podcasts on a variety
38:49
of different places.
38:50
Uh, so congratulations to that.
38:53
That sounds profitables
38:53
brown Barletta took a deep
38:55
dive into a Dory labs.
38:57
Now Dory labs was at
38:57
podcast movement evolutions.
39:00
There are clever piece
39:00
of new technology.
39:02
Which makes getting audio
39:02
content into YouTube a much more
39:06
simple and engaging experience.
39:07
It basically adds tons of,
39:07
uh, related, um, pictures,
39:11
uh, in there as well.
39:12
So, uh, interesting to take a
39:12
peak at that if you want to.
39:15
I love Brian Barnett is deep
39:15
dives, cause it's really
39:17
good to be able to actually
39:17
see inside a product, um,
39:21
and understand what it does.
39:22
So it's a good
39:22
piece of work that.
39:24  Sam
Ted audio collective
39:24
has signed with
39:27
Supercars to offer paid
39:27
subscriptions for Ted talks.
39:30
Bailey.
39:31  James
Yes, they have, um,
39:31
a super cast is interesting.
39:34
It's one of the only
39:34
third-party companies that
39:37
enables you to work in apple
39:37
podcasts as well as in Spotify
39:41
and in Google podcasts.
39:43
It's basically one of those
39:43
subscription platforms
39:45
that works everywhere.
39:46
The other one I think
39:46
is supporting cast.
39:49
I don't think that
39:49
there are any other.
39:51
Third party available ones
39:51
doubtless on they'll get emails,
39:54
comments that potlatch.news.
39:56
Um, but, um, nice to see, uh,
39:56
Ted talks, daddy signing out.
40:00
It's one of the very
40:00
biggest podcasts.
40:01
I think it's in the top five.
40:03
Um, so it'll be interesting
40:03
to see how that works, but
40:07
congratulations to a super
40:07
cast, which I think is
40:10
a good Canadian company.
40:11
I think it's out of
40:11
Vancouver or Victoria.
40:14
Anyway, congratulations to them.
40:16
Uh, in getting, uh, the
40:16
Ted audio collective,
40:18
uh, signed up also
40:18
congratulations to captivate.
40:21
Who've done a deal with
40:21
the hospital broadcasting
40:23
association who have
40:23
launched their own
40:25
podcast hosting network.
40:28
Clever and smart idea.
40:29
Actually, they've got
40:29
loads of radio station
40:32
members for the hospital
40:32
broadcasting association.
40:34
So if you're not from the
40:34
UK, lots of hospitals have
40:38
their own radio stations
40:38
because it's actually proven
40:40
that, um, uh, radio actually
40:40
makes you feel better.
40:44
And so, uh, it's also a
40:44
very good training ground
40:47
for aspiring broadcasters.
40:49
Um, and so the hospital
40:49
broadcasting association
40:52
has basically done a deal
40:52
with, uh, captivate where.
40:55
Um, if you're a member of
40:55
the broadcasting association,
40:58
then you can add your shows
40:58
to their platform, which
41:03
is a very good, good thing
41:03
at no additional charge.
41:06
You obviously pay to
41:06
be a member of the HPA.
41:08
And so that's a good thing.
41:10
So many congratulations
41:10
to both captivate too.
41:12
I used to be a advisor for,
41:12
and, uh, the HPA who I was
41:16
once I was, once I'm working
41:16
for a hospital radio station,
41:19
a long, long, long time.
41:21
What hospital was that?
41:23
James?
41:23
It was a Jews Bree.
41:25
And, uh, it was HWD which,
41:25
uh, is celebrating its
41:29
70th birthday this month.
41:31
So happy birthday HWD
41:34  Sam
and yes.
41:35
Mrs.
41:35
Miggins in bed five.
41:36
I love to you.
41:38  James
Yes, exactly.
41:39
Ward seven.
41:40
You know, here's some
41:40
Jim Reeves for you.
41:42
Yes, exactly.
41:45
Um, Hey, I've got,
41:45
I've got a toy.
41:47
I've got a toy.
41:48
Look, can you, can you see,
41:48
can you see what I've got here?
41:51
I've got this beautiful,
41:51
beautiful, uh, wireless mouse.
41:57
So I bought a wireless mouse
41:57
because I needed, um, I needed
42:00
a new mouse basically, cause my
42:00
other mouse was not very good.
42:04
And if I use a touch pad for a
42:04
long, long time, then I get RSI.
42:08
I don't want that kids.
42:10
Um, so I ended up buying a it's.
42:12
M six 50 L wireless mouse.
42:16
It's $40, uh, in the U S um,
42:16
but the reason why I bought
42:20
it is that it's got silent
42:20
buttons, so I can actually
42:23
click and you won't hear the
42:23
clicks, so that's a good start.
42:27
Cause you know, You know,
42:27
mice anomaly incredibly loud.
42:31
So that's pretty good.
42:32
The other thing about it, apart
42:32
from your nose, Bluetooth and,
42:35
and, and all of that stuff.
42:36
But the other thing about it is,
42:36
is that it's got two additional
42:39
buttons and you can program the
42:39
additional buttons depending
42:43
on what app you're using.
42:45
So now in Hindenburg, I can
42:45
now, uh, split and cut and
42:50
all of that automatically
42:50
from the little buttons on the
42:52
side, which I've managed to
42:52
be able to work to a program.
42:56
So it's a really good thing.
42:57
And it struck me that
42:57
actually a silent mouse with
43:00
some extra buttons is a,
43:00
is a thing to write about.
43:03
So I did, I only wish I got
43:04  Sam
it free, but my question
43:04
was I nearly went in, died
43:07
in, into Bali Bollywood last
43:07
night for the radio station.
43:10
And then I stopped myself
43:10
when I went, hang on a minute.
43:13
Can't you just turn the
43:13
click sound off of all mice
43:16
it's doesn't the big killer
43:16
featured near silent buttons
43:20
actually work on every mouse.
43:22
No.
43:22
Oh
43:23  James
no, it doesn't at all.
43:24
No, it's it's um, you
43:24
know it, hang on a minute.
43:26
Let me, let, let me show you.
43:30
Here is a cheap mouse
43:30
that came with my
43:32
daughter's raspberry pie.
43:33
And when you click it, you get
43:33
this horrible noise, right.
43:38
And then when you click this,
43:38
and this is where I want to
43:42
make sure that I'm not going
43:42
to stop it from recording
43:44
or anything, when you click
43:44
this, can you hear that?
43:48
Yeah.
43:49  Sam
Yeah.
43:51
He is actually pressing
43:51
a mouse button people.
43:54
Yes.
43:54  James
Yeah.
43:55
So you see, um, so no, it's,
43:55
it's um, it's just part and
43:59
parcel of a cheap, crappy,
43:59
um, uh, mouse is, is that it's
44:03
got clicky buttons, whereas
44:03
this is still a cheap mouse.
44:07
It's not necessarily crappy.
44:09
Um, but it doesn't have those
44:09
horrible clicky buttons.
44:11
So no, it's a special.
44:13
Yeah, I will go
44:14  Sam
back to Amazon
44:14
and complete my order.
44:16
Then
44:18  James
I'll give you an
44:18
affiliate code, no word.
44:21
Yeah.
44:21
I
44:21  Sam
do make a few
44:21
patties out of it.
44:24
Put that in the beer fund.
44:26
Um, uh, and last but not least,
44:26
um, One of the job things are
44:33
that appeared on pod news.
44:35
Uh, I don't normally look at the
44:35
job things cause I've got low.
44:38
Me too.
44:38
But, um, so you say boss
44:38
next week, who knows
44:44
what I'll be doing then?
44:46
Um, Buzzsprout um, are
44:46
looking for a YouTube platform
44:51
specialist, Albany and
44:51
Kevin, what are you up to?
44:54  James
Yes.
44:54
Well, what are you
44:54
up to good spot?
44:57
Cause I hadn't spotted that,
44:57
uh, cause uh, I don't look
45:00
at the job listings either,
45:00
because again, why would I
45:03
need to, um, but good spot.
45:05
So, uh, yes, it's
45:05
listed@podjobs.net
45:08
at the moment.
45:09
It's a YouTube
45:09
platform specialist.
45:11
Now I thought.
45:12
Oh, maybe they know something
45:12
about YouTube podcast
45:15
ambitions, and maybe they're
45:15
wanting somebody to work
45:18
with YouTube, for podcasts,
45:18
um, et cetera, et cetera.
45:21
Now it's not bad.
45:23
It's making the Buzzsprout
45:23
YouTube channel better.
45:26
So basically it's a job around
45:26
marketing content creation
45:30
and community, uh, management.
45:31
Uh, you can work remotely.
45:33
Um, I'm suspecting within the
45:33
U S only, but you can work
45:37
remotely at the salary is
45:37
$70,000, which sounds nice.
45:41
Does not help you
45:41
also get healthy.
45:45
You also get health insurance,
45:45
um, uh, which must be
45:49
an exciting thing for an
45:49
American, um, and a 401k
45:53
and you get paid timely.
45:55
Uh, I'll go to American job ads.
45:57
Brilliant.
45:58
Paid time off.
45:59
Yeah.
46:00
Um, and you also get, it
46:00
says here, lots of podcasting
46:03
equipment say, must get sent
46:03
an awful lot for review.
46:07
Um, yeah.
46:08
So if you are somebody that
46:08
completely understands YouTube
46:12
and, um, you can produce, you
46:12
know, thumbnails and everything
46:15
else, you understand how
46:15
the YouTube algorithm works.
46:18
You have experience running a
46:18
YouTube channel, then hop to.
46:22
Uh, it's pod jobs.net.
46:23
You've got until, uh, may
46:23
the 10th, uh, to get your,
46:27
um, your information in.
46:29
And what it also says
46:29
is that, uh, it's a
46:32
remote first position.
46:34
Um, but, uh, there's one,
46:34
uh, yearly retreat that
46:38
you will get to go to.
46:40
And also.
46:41
Optional Christmas party
46:41
in Florida every year.
46:47
So, so, uh, yeah, and up
46:47
to two podcasts conferences
46:51
each year as needed.
46:53
So yeah, I know it
46:53
looks a good gig.
46:55
I'll be quite, um, quite,
46:55
uh, quite taken with it.
46:58  Sam
I was going to say,
46:58
they're very nice people.
47:00
They sponsor us as well.
47:01
So yeah.
47:02
What, what
47:02  James
else could we say?
47:03
And you get 15 days holiday.
47:06
1550.
47:09
I'm just saying this is a
47:09
European where we get 25
47:12
normally, but 15, there you go.
47:17  Sam
And use them
47:17
all at once now.
47:19
A tech corridor.
47:21  James
No, but make sure,
47:21
but make sure that you
47:22
use them because they
47:22
are non accumulator.
47:24
You'd also said surely.
47:29
Oh dear.
47:29
Anyway, let's stop taking the
47:29
Mickey out of the Americans.
47:33
Yeah.
47:33
Uh, and, uh, yes, let's, uh,
47:33
um, uh, you, you want to talk
47:37
about web Southern pop pink?
47:39
Not
47:39  Sam
particularly, but I just
47:39
thought, I'd say something
47:40
you'd take quarter this week.
47:42
Um, but yes, you wrote about it.
47:45
So I thought I'd mentioned it.
47:46
Um, are you website, pod
47:46
pinging and updating your
47:49
shows will, may be one to
47:49
when you delete your RSS feed,
47:53
uh, also downstream remind
47:53
people to pod ping them as
47:57
well to remind them that the.
47:59
Should be removed
47:59
from the directory.
48:01
Um, but I generally think
48:01
most people when they stop
48:04
podcasting, that's the
48:04
last thing they're thinking
48:06  James
about Derek.
48:06
Yeah, no, of course.
48:07
And I think this is really aimed
48:07
at, um, you know, people like
48:09
upon sprout who are already
48:09
pod pinging and web subbing
48:13
and all of that kind of stuff.
48:15
Uh, that, uh, when they
48:15
say goodbye to a customer,
48:17
which I, I I'm guessing
48:17
very rarely happens.
48:20
Uh, but when they are saying
48:20
goodbye to a customer, um,
48:23
then just, um, giving a
48:23
little pod ping, uh, when
48:26
that RSS feed goes away,
48:26
just means that people like
48:29
the podcast index know that
48:29
that RSS feed has gone away.
48:31
Um, which is a good thing, cause
48:31
it's always, um, it's always
48:35
good to, um, uh, give a hint
48:35
that, uh, podcasts should be.
48:40
Deleted from the system.
48:41  Sam
I'll send that over to
48:41
Michelle and Barack Obama
48:44
when they leave Spotify.
48:45
See if they'll let
48:46  James
them know.
48:48
Now.
48:48
Now, uh, now I tell you, I
48:48
tell you what it is time for.
48:52
Oh.
48:52
It's time for the boost
48:52
boost boost boost boost
48:56
the Graham corner.
48:59
Yes.
48:59
It's time for booster
48:59
Graham corner.
49:01
It's my favorite
49:01
time, apparently.
49:03
So you say, but it's very
49:03
exciting to see a new.
49:08
Booster.
49:09
Uh, so, uh, thank you very much,
49:09
mark Gauston, uh, who is host
49:13
of the wood fired oven podcast?
49:16
There's a podcast for
49:16
everything, even a podcast
49:19
about wood-fired ovens.
49:22  Sam
Welcome
49:23  James
to the wood-fired
49:23
oven podcast, where I
49:25
take a deep dive into the.
49:27
Recipes and history of
49:27
wood-fired oven cooking.
49:31
And mark Gauston says, love
49:31
what you're doing, guys.
49:34
New listener, learning a
49:34
lot from your deep dives.
49:36
Keep up the great work.
49:37
Cheers, mark.
49:38
Well, cheers, mark.
49:39
Thank you.
49:39
1500 sites from customatic mark.
49:42
Thank you so much.
49:43
Really good to see new people
49:43
hitting that boost button.
49:46
If you've got a boost button
49:46
and you should hold it
49:48
down and send us a message,
49:48
that'd be really nice.
49:51
Uh, we got something from a car
49:51
in my, um, my Brisbane buddy.
49:55
It looks like a Levi's
49:57  Sam
boost.
49:58
5
49:58  James
0 1.
49:58
Oh, nice.
49:59
I see what you've done there
50:01  Sam
only you and I will get
50:01
that reference for that's fine.
50:03
We'll move on.
50:05
Re transcripts versus closed
50:05
captions are people with
50:08
auditory issues actually asking
50:08
for transcripts or for captions.
50:13
As I put my vids on YouTube,
50:13
which has closed captions,
50:17
is there any additional
50:17
benefit from them having
50:19
the full text as well?
50:21
Because I don't want
50:21
them reading my podcast.
50:24
I want them to
50:24
listen and watch it.
50:26
So I guess what
50:26
Karen is saying is.
50:29
Should transcripts being
50:29
included or is there a
50:31
demand for transcripts?
50:33  James
Well, I think the
50:33
answer to that is, um, uh, is
50:37
that, uh, we are not the right
50:37
person to ask because, uh, we
50:40
do not have auditory issues.
50:42
Um, but my understanding from
50:42
those people who I have talked
50:46
to is that close captions are
50:46
good in certain situations.
50:50
And that transcripts are
50:50
good for certain other ones.
50:53
And certainly transcripts
50:53
are very helpful for things
50:55
like, um, Google and,
50:55
uh, you know, SEO and all
50:58
of that kind of stuff.
51:00
So whether you don't want people
51:00
reading your podcast, I think
51:03
that's a different conversation.
51:05
Um, but I think certainly
51:05
both transcripts and closed
51:08
captions can be used.
51:09
Uh, it's my own personal
51:09
view, but, uh, if you have
51:12
a better view, then I would
51:12
love to hear it as well.
51:15
Um, uh, either hit the
51:15
boost button and tell us,
51:17
or comments@portland.news.
51:19
Uh, the pod
51:20  Sam
father has
51:20
sent us 5,000 sites.
51:22
He said, uh, consider using
51:22
the podcast standard instead
51:26
of namespace, not sure
51:26
what that's in reference.
51:29  James
Uh, yes, I think it's,
51:29
um, it's us talking about the
51:32
podcast, namespace a loss,
51:32
and he wants people to use
51:35
the phrase podcast standard.
51:37
I will run a mile before I
51:37
use the word standard because
51:40
standards to me mean lots
51:40
of meetings and lots of
51:44
tedious, boring documents
51:44
and, and everything else.
51:47
And, uh, said, no, I'm going to
51:47
carry on using namespace, but
51:51
thank you for your point too.
51:53
Inventor of this medium.
51:56
Um, I, you know, I think we
51:56
need to be very careful when we
51:59
start talking about standards
51:59
and, uh, talking about, uh,
52:02
all of that kind of stuff.
52:04
I think that, uh, the podcast
52:04
namespace is a great thing
52:07
that, uh, that, uh, the
52:07
podcast index, uh, team.
52:11
Uh, and personally I think that
52:11
there's nothing wrong with it.
52:15
Um, but, uh, yeah, there we go.
52:18  Sam
Kevin Finn, uh, from
52:18
Buzzsprout centers 3, 6, 8, 6.
52:21
That's a I'm sure
52:21
that has a reference.
52:24
It does because that's the,
52:26  James
I'll tell, I'll tell
52:26
you what that reference was.
52:28
The number of new podcasts that
52:28
was on Buzzsprout last week.
52:32  Sam
I, of course I forgot.
52:34
Look forward to seeing you both
52:34
in London for the bulk I'll
52:36
show yet getting look forward to
52:36
meeting up with you in London.
52:39
Um, we'll, we'll set you
52:39
take you out for some, a warm
52:43
brown, uh, wet, uh, beer.
52:46
So there you go.
52:46  James
Yes.
52:47
It's not warm.
52:47
It's just cellar temperature.
52:49
It's not, so it's
52:49
just not refrigerated.
52:51
I get very upset.
52:53
Um, people say that I thank you,
52:53
Neil, who I think is also a new.
52:57
Booster, uh, who
52:57
sent us three sets.
52:59
Thanks, Neil.
53:00
Uh, from a fountain
53:00
saying awesome.
53:03
Uh, then centers, another
53:03
three sets saying awesome.
53:06
Then sent us another
53:06
three sat saying awesome.
53:08
But with only, oh, look,
53:08
he's, he's put a different
53:11
amount of exclamation mark.
53:13
Yeah, all the way through.
53:14
Wow.
53:15
This is complicated.
53:16
Isn't it.
53:16
Anyway, thank you for the,
53:16
for the 12 sets, Neil, um,
53:20
and for your four messages
53:20
of awesome into the fountain
53:24
app, um, genuinely that's,
53:24
uh, that's very good of you.
53:28
Um, and, uh, Good to
53:28
hear that you think that
53:31
something is awesome or
53:31
got your hot we're good.
53:34
Good.
53:35  Sam
Now, uh, event quarter, um,
53:35
the podcast show, which we keep
53:39
talking about in London, or may
53:39
the 25th is a fast approaching.
53:45
Um, if you want, you can
53:45
still get a discount promo
53:50
code using pod news, which
53:50
will save you 20% off.
53:54
A limited number of day passes.
53:56
Uh, James and I will be there.
53:58
Um, we look forward to meeting
53:58
many, many of you, if you are
54:01
making it across the water from
54:01
around the world, or if you just
54:04
in the UK and coming into LA.
54:06  James
Yes, indeed.
54:07
And podcast movement.
54:08
2022 is happening in Dallas.
54:09
In Texas.
54:10
I should be there assuming
54:10
that I buy the tickets.
54:13
Um, and, uh, you're, you're
54:13
just going on holiday aren't
54:16
you instead, but that's.
54:18
Yeah, you're
54:18  Sam
allowed to go
54:18
back to America.
54:21
I'm going to go to Italy.
54:22  James
You're allowed.
54:23
You're allowed holidays.
54:25
Um, may the
54:26  Sam
fourth.
54:26
Oh no, I wouldn't be, if
54:26
I was going to bus brow, I
54:30
would never enough holiday
54:31  James
allowance.
54:32
It's just because.
54:34
That's nothing to do with
54:34
them being plus, uh, also
54:37
going on is the New Zealand
54:37
podcasting summits, which is
54:40
on may the 14th in Auckland,
54:40
which should be quite fun.
54:43
There's the outlier
54:43
podcast festival happening
54:46
in Austin, in Texas on
54:46
may the fifth and sixth.
54:50
And.
54:50
Plenty more things, uh,
54:50
for you to end up going
54:53
to the black pod festival.
54:55
Um, also in Atlanta and
54:55
Georgia on the 28th of May,
54:59
um, loads of other stuff.
55:01
If you want to see
55:01
more of those, then
55:03
pod.events is where to go.
55:06
So what's been happening for
55:06
you this week in Portland,
55:08  Sam
Sam been working
55:08
with headliner, um, with
55:12
Neil Modi and his team
55:12
on hopefully a really
55:16
interesting way to automate.
55:18
Um, audio grams.
55:20
So Niels are coming on the show
55:20
next week to talk about it.
55:24
But what we've been talking
55:24
about since podcast movement
55:27
is what Neil's team did
55:27
with headliner was allowed
55:31
to take the full RSS feed
55:31
and push that out to your
55:36
YouTube channel automatically.
55:37
And we're doing
55:37
that with Portland.
55:40
But also you can go in there
55:40
and put your RSS feed and
55:44
it will automatically create
55:44
using AI for clippable items
55:48
that you can put two Twitter
55:48
Tik TOK, Hey, maybe we'll put
55:52
it on Arctic dock, channel
55:52
James and other places.
55:56
The problem I've got as
55:56
river radio, I've got
55:58
over 30 different RSS
55:58
feeds now for each show.
56:02
And.
56:04
Thing is that all of those feeds
56:04
come into my inbox because I'm
56:07
the admin for that account.
56:10
And of course, when you multiply
56:10
that by four, and then they do
56:13
that three times a week, I get
56:13
about a hundred clips coming
56:16
into my inbox and in the.
56:19
Best effort that I could do,
56:19
I will never ever be able to
56:22
post all of those correctly.
56:23
So we're looking at how similar
56:23
to the way that they do full RSS
56:28
automation, straight to YouTube,
56:28
that there will be a way that
56:32
I can take those clickable
56:32
items and automate them.
56:36
Out to my social media points.
56:38
That's what I've been working
56:39  James
on.
56:39
Y yes.
56:40
Imagine the email you
56:40
must get from Aircast.
56:43
Uh, and that reminds me that
56:43
Tom Billington will also
56:48
be on this show next week.
56:50
He is, um, one of the people
56:50
at the podcast show London.
56:53
So he'll be telling us a little
56:53
bit more about what to expect
56:57
in London in the middle of may.
56:59
So we're looking
56:59
forward to that.
57:01  Sam
So James, what has been
57:01
happening for you in Podland
57:03  James
this week?
57:03
I've been having loads of chats
57:03
about things that I can't talk
57:06
about, which is really good.
57:07
Um, some very cool technology,
57:07
which we'll be able to
57:10
play with when we're at
57:10
the podcast show London.
57:13
Cause it will be announced
57:13
by them, but it won't
57:15
be announced until.
57:16
The very first day of
57:16
podcast show London.
57:19
Um, uh, and that
57:19
is, uh, from Norway.
57:22
That's literally all
57:22
that I can tell you.
57:24
Um, I'm also working on two
57:24
new podcasts conferences,
57:28
uh, which are happening
57:28
later on, uh, this year.
57:31
So that's been good.
57:32
Um, and, uh, And, and also
57:32
just as a, by the, by I
57:36
discovered a new tool.
57:38
Um, that's new to me.
57:39
It's been going for a
57:39
while, uh, which is all
57:41
around email testing.
57:43
One of the problems that I've
57:43
had for a long, long time is
57:46
that when you send a email
57:46
to somebody who's running
57:50
outlook, for example, you've
57:50
no idea what it looks like.
57:53
And I don't have a.
57:55
A windows machine at all.
57:57
And I have no idea what,
57:57
um, the emails that Ponte
58:01
news has been sending
58:01
out look like in outlook.
58:03
Um, and so either I could spend
58:03
somewhere in the region of nine
58:07
of 90 or a hundred dollars per
58:07
month, that's us dollars, uh,
58:11
on a very expensive testing
58:11
tool and then have to cancel.
58:15
Oh, I discovered this thing
58:15
called testy.at and testy.at
58:20
is, um, much the same, but
58:20
it's much, much cheaper.
58:23
Uh, it's about 16 quid a
58:23
month and you just pay for
58:27
one month and that's it.
58:29
So that's been really good.
58:30
And so I've been nerding
58:30
out testing and playing
58:32
around with the, um, uh,
58:32
email templates, uh, for.
58:38
Pod news.
58:39
And if you're using, uh,
58:39
particularly outlook, then
58:42
you should see some, um,
58:42
welcome changes, um, uh,
58:46
happening in your email.
58:48
A look at that later.
58:49
And that's it for this week.
58:50
If you like pod land, tell
58:50
others to visit, to tell
58:53
your friends on Twitter that
58:53
links in Facebook or wherever
58:56  Sam
you could also email.
58:58
Ah, potlatch thought
58:58
news, and you'll also
59:00
find all our previous
59:00
shows@interviewsoutpotluck.news.
59:04  James
Uh, if you'd like
59:04
to news, you should get
59:06
pod news, the newsletters
59:06
free pod news dot ness.
59:08
The podcast can be found in
59:08
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59:11
speaker and all the stories
59:11
we've discussed on pod lands
59:13
today are in the show notes.
59:15
We use chapters and
59:15
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59:17  Sam
music is from ignite
59:17
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