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Podland News

The last word in podcasting news. Every Thursday, James Cridland from Podnews in Australia and Sam Sethi, from 'Podcast First' River Radio in the UK, review and analyse some of the week's top podcasting news from around the world. They also interview some of the biggest names making the news. Sponsored by Buzzsprout and SquadCast.

https://podland.news

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episode 75: Scoop Queen Ashley Carman joins us. Apple announces Podcasts Delegated Delivery. No Anchor or Megaphone. Are you team Spotify or team Apple? RØDECaster Pro II leaked. Curiocaster and Podverse support <podcast:liveItem> tag. [transcript]

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Special Guest

Ashley Carman - Bloomberg

Show Notes & Links

James Cridland Radio Days Europe - Roundup
Selling paid subscriptions through Apple Podcasts? Until now, you’ve had to upload that audio separately to Apple; but Apple Podcasts Delegated Delivery was announced yesterday, allowing creators to upload and manage that audio through selected podcast hosting companies when this feature launches in Q3.
- A number of initial podcast hosting companies have been announced including RSS·com, Libsyn and Buzzsprout; but if you run a podcast hosting company and wish to participate in Delegated Delivery, you’re encouraged to fill out this form. (Memo to Apple: here’s a list).
- "Interesting that both of Spotify's hosting platforms, megaphone and anchor, arent participating at launch."- Ashley C
- "Spotify works with third parties to support its subscription offering, too. the only overlap is acast, at least according to the initial partner list. curious if this means there's now additional stratification in podcast world: team Spotify or team Apple "- Ashley C
iOS 15.5, iPadOS 15.5, and macOS 12.4 were made available yesterday. This brings annual paid subscriptions within the Apple Podcasts app. We told you last month; you can add an annual plan now.
With the new iOS, the Apple Podcasts app has had a welcome tweak for automatic download settings, with per-show customisation. You’ll find the new settings in your Settings app on iPhone and iPad. The app will now also recommend removing old downloads when necessary.
And one more thing - Finally: the next version of macOS adds an auto-delete function to Apple Podcasts.
RØDE is to release the RØDECaster Pro II, an updated mixer
Podcasting 2.0 apps that support the new <podcast:liveItem> tag, include Curiocaster: and Podverse.

2022-05-21 56m

00:00 James

Welcome to Podland.

00:01

The last word in

00:01

podcasting news.

00:02

It's Friday, the

00:02

20th of May, 2022.

00:06

I am James Cridland, the editor

00:06

of podnews.net and Sam Sethi,

00:10 Sam

the MD of River Radio,

00:10

the podcast radio station.

00:13

Now on DAB.

00:14 Ashley

I'm Ashley Carmen,

00:14

a reporter at Bloomberg.

00:16

I am a guest on

00:16

this podcast this

00:18 James

week.

00:19

It's going to be very exciting

00:19

all the way through, Portland

00:22

more resources to get stories?

19:58

What is it?

19:58

Because clearly you are

19:58

doing a great job scooping

20:01

all these new stories.

20:03

how's that changed for you?

20:04 Ashley

it's always a hustle.

20:06

It's never easy.

20:08

but yeah, I I think that

20:08

Bloomberg really cares

20:10

about those scoops.

20:11

We want to be the first,

20:11

if we can, to most news.

20:14

And if we're not the

20:14

first we want to try to.

20:16

It as thoroughly in as

20:16

accurately and with as

20:18

much insight as we can.

20:20

So I would say, you know,

20:20

I'm constantly trying

20:23

to get more stories.

20:24

Never feel like I'm

20:24

doing enough, but, yeah,

20:26

the scoops definitely.

20:27

I don't know if it's kinda

20:27

the same as at the verge, you

20:29

know, just always trying to

20:29

find something to write about.

20:31

but I would say the focus

20:31

is definitely on that.

20:33 Sam

will you grow

20:33

the team around you?

20:35

Is the plan to grow a team

20:35

all around the podcast?

20:39 Ashley

I don't

20:39

think so right now.

20:41

You all, I think now I

20:41

know James knows my editor

20:43

Lucas, so he's been on the

20:43

podcast beat for a while now.

20:47

Like he's been writing

20:47

about for a long time, so

20:49

it's really me and him.

20:50

and then they brought me in

20:50

of course, to help break ups.

20:52

I'm also going to be covering

20:52

the music industry as well,

20:55

and this broader idea of

20:55

creators, which obviously can be

20:57

podcasters, video podcasts or.

20:59

Whoever makes money

20:59

on the internet.

21:02

Really?

21:02

so yeah, we have a team.

21:04

I don't think there's plans,

21:04

you know, necessarily build

21:06

out the podcast world, but we

21:06

definitely have a great media

21:09

coverage team and telecom team.

21:11 Sam

And given your, like

21:11

James, the mystic Meg view

21:14

of the world in podcasting,

21:14

what are you looking forward

21:18

to later in this year?

21:19

Is there anything you

21:19

think is going to change?

21:22 Ashley

I would say like the

21:22

big story I'm curious about

21:25

is obviously for the past few

21:25

years, we've been covering a lot

21:29

of the investments happening in

21:29

podcast, world and audio, world

21:32

startups, Spotify spending a

21:32

ton, Amazon spending a ton of.

21:37

The shooting star that was

21:37

Facebook for all of a year.

21:40

and all sorts of different

21:40

platforms, you know, saying

21:42

their interest in audio.

21:43

But now with this sort of

21:43

economic downturn that is

21:46

happening, I'm really interested

21:46

to see how these companies

21:49

treat the audio world.

21:51

And if this was more of a like

21:51

aspirational, this could be

21:54

our next thing, you know, let's

21:54

invest and see how it goes.

21:57

And now we're going to

21:57

see that fall by the

21:59

wayside, just because

21:59

it's like, money's tight.

22:01

We gotta watch our investments.

22:02

That's just what I'm curious

22:02

to see how it plays out.

22:04

I don't know if that's

22:04

what will happen.

22:06

I assume Spotify is here to

22:06

be here, but it really Amazon

22:09

as well, but I don't know if

22:09

any other companies are going

22:12

to necessarily keep doubling

22:12

down on any audio efforts.

22:16 Sam

I've got a bet as well.

22:17

The Hamline James,

22:19 James

what's your bad spot.

22:20

Spotlit.

22:22

Oh, yes.

22:22 Sam

I bought the

22:22

domain the other day.

22:24

So in case I now have spot

22:24

flicks, if you wanted Daniel,

22:29

you know where to find me now?

22:31 James

Yes.

22:32

His or rather his lawyers

22:32

know where to find you.

22:34

that's

22:35 Sam

fine.

22:35

They can pay me for it as well.

22:36

I don't mind where

22:36

the money comes from

22:41

looking at the share price

22:41

of both of them and the

22:43

amount of people that are

22:43

leaving both companies.

22:45

I think it could be any

22:45

time soon because, when you

22:47

look at Amazon, they've got

22:47

video audio books, they've

22:51

got the full shooting match.

22:52

You look at the same with apple.

22:54

They have the full

22:54

stack and it's Netflix.

22:57

And it's also, it's also, I'd

22:57

say, you know, Spotify who are

23:01

struggling basically on both

23:01

sides and the two together

23:05

as one actually would be

23:05

able to compete much better.

23:08

I think.

23:09

Yeah,

23:10 Ashley

totally.

23:10

I hear a lot.

23:11

I hear a lot of speculation

23:11

about that as well.

23:13

there's some Netflix blood

23:13

on the board of Spotify and

23:17

I believe their CFO used

23:17

to be at Netflix as well.

23:19

Their old CFO, he

23:19

spanned Netflix as well.

23:21

and obviously the

23:21

subscription model has

23:23

been Netflix influenced.

23:25

they're both in

23:25

the intention game.

23:26

I could see that

23:26

being interesting.

23:28

yeah.

23:29

And

23:29 James

you CA and you can

23:29

actually see, you know, I

23:31

find it interesting that you

23:31

can now turn off the video in

23:34

Netflix and just consume, some

23:34

of their content in audio form.

23:38

And similarly, you can

23:38

turn off, you, you can turn

23:41

on the video in Spotify.

23:42

So the actual products

23:42

are getting closer

23:45

and closer as well.

23:46

I find, I find the whole thing.

23:47

Fascinating.

23:48

So it'll be really interesting

23:48

to see quite what happens.

23:51

should we move on to I'm curious

23:51

about your, your take on who's

23:55

number one for podcasting,

23:55

Ashley, cause there's been

23:58

quite a lot of, of, new numbers

23:58

that have come out last week.

24:02

Edison, what should we

24:02

call the these days?

24:05

Edison podcast metrics, came

24:05

out and said that the number

24:08

one, in terms of publishers

24:08

was S XM media pod track came

24:13

out of course, and said that

24:13

the number one is iHeart media.

24:16

So, you then have, media

24:16

monitors owned by iHeart

24:20

media who say that the

24:20

number one is iHeart media,

24:22

surprisingly, and, Triton.

24:25

D Tritons figures have

24:25

just come out, today.

24:28

talking about, figures for,

24:28

for, you know, for, us, podcast

24:33

publishers and they say again,

24:33

the SSM media is number one.

24:37

How confusing do you think

24:37

all of this is iHeart?

24:40

Number one, it

24:40

isn't, aren't they?

24:42

Number one?

24:43

How confusing is it all for

24:43

the industry or frankly, should

24:47

I not be caring about this?

24:51 Ashley

I don't want to say

24:51

you shouldn't care about

24:53

things you're passionate about.

24:54

So,

24:55 James

but, okay.

24:57 Ashley

But it's just, if

24:57

you don't have every single

25:00

player and by player, like

25:00

network or show or on the

25:05

same platform submitting

25:05

the same type of data.

25:07

it's just really hard

25:07

to draw any conclusions.

25:09

You've pointed it out.

25:10

It's like, I, heart's

25:10

not on Triton and.

25:12

And PR is not on this

25:12

one or whatever it is.

25:14

And it's like, then

25:14

we can't, it's just,

25:16

you can't look at you.

25:17

Can't compare.

25:18

You just can't.

25:19

So I don't know.

25:21

I don't take too much stock in

25:21

it to be honest with you, but

25:24

it is a really nice marketing

25:24

line to be able to say your

25:26

number one podcast weekly.

25:28 James

Yeah.

25:29

It is a really nice marketing

25:29

line, but if marketing

25:31

lines aren't true, then

25:31

that's probably not a great,

25:34 Ashley

are number

25:34

one, asterix on.

25:40 James

Podtrac and they do that

25:40

and they do that very well.

25:42

Yeah.

25:42

They, you know, they

25:42

highlight that very well.

25:44

I find, I do find it interesting

25:44

that I, heart media isn't

25:47

measured by Triton who I own.

25:49

you would have thought

25:49

you have thought there was

25:52

something there, but now I

25:52

just find that sort of line,

25:55

you know, Really interesting.

25:57

And I'm just curious as

25:57

to what the, you know, as

26:00

to what the, the industry

26:00

thinks of, of, all of that.

26:04

we also got some new numbers

26:04

this week from the BBC from

26:08

BBC sounds, they're claiming

26:08

a record audience of 4

26:11

million users per week for

26:11

their app, here in the UK.

26:14

and I compared that 4 million is

26:14

a great thing for a podcast app.

26:18

I compare that to, their live

26:18

radio, which reaches 34 million.

26:22

so there's still quite some way

26:22

to go, but quite interesting,

26:25

seeing their total global

26:25

podcasts downloads across

26:29

the quarter was 288 million,

26:29

which makes the BBC about

26:33

the same size as Wondery.

26:34

I suspect that the Wondery

26:34

has rather fewer staff

26:38

see something tells me.

26:40

You know, obviously the BBC

26:40

makes rather a lot more stuff,

26:43

but, you know, interesting

26:43

seeing those figures because

26:47

of course, you know, the BBC

26:47

is putting quite a lot of

26:50

exclusive stuff onto there, you

26:50

know, onto their app as well.

26:54

Yeah.

26:55 Ashley

I've been very curious

26:55

about the BBC as someone who

26:57

obviously is in the U S and

26:57

I don't have this intimate

27:00

familiarity with the BBC, but

27:00

I've heard, there's similarly to

27:03

what's happening here with NPR

27:03

that I've written about a bit.

27:05

I've heard, there's

27:05

like a talent exit is

27:07

going on over there.

27:08

I don't know if I've just

27:08

been curious about that as

27:10

someone who, again, hasn't

27:10

been able to dive in.

27:14 James

Yeah, I think

27:14

it's very similar to the

27:15

talent Exodus that we're

27:15

seeing from NPR as well.

27:18

And a lot of it is due to the

27:18

sort of place that those large

27:21

organizations are to work out.

27:23

But I think also a lot of it is

27:23

just due to freedom of IP and

27:27

allowing yourself to be able

27:27

to, you know, take a show that,

27:32

you know, and we're seeing a

27:32

little bit of this into, in

27:34

terms of Gimlet, you know, and

27:34

Spotify and those sorts of,

27:36

those sorts of organizations as

27:36

well, where people wants to be

27:40

able to take away their ideas

27:40

and make something of them.

27:44

And clearly, you know,

27:44

especially if you're working

27:46

for somebody like the BBC

27:46

that, you know, I worked

27:49

there for, two years,

27:49

best two years of my life.

27:51

and, I know all of the rules

27:51

and the regulations that

27:55

they end up having to follow.

27:56

So I think from that

27:56

point of view, it's, you

27:58

know, it's hard work from

27:58

there, from their side.

28:01

And if you could make

28:01

your life a little bit

28:04

more easy creatively, then

28:04

perhaps that's, you know,

28:07

that's a plan, but yeah.

28:08

You know, I think that there's

28:08

an Exodus going on actually

28:11

in all large organizations,

28:11

because we are now seeing how

28:16

easy it is for you to be a

28:16

small company or a small one

28:19

person, you know, show and

28:19

be able to actually monetize

28:24

those quite successfully.

28:25

And I think, you know,

28:25

we're seeing more of that in

28:27

terms of a cast, and those

28:27

sorts of services and of

28:29

course, megaphone as well.

28:32

So, I think it's going

28:32

to be really interesting.

28:34 Sam

I think distribution is

28:34

the key, isn't the BBC NPR used

28:37

to be there only way to get

28:37

mass audience distribution.

28:39

Now you can do that

28:39

straight over the web

28:41

and direct to consumer.

28:44

So I think the other thing

28:44

that's interesting though,

28:47

it may be a thing to think

28:47

about if you're naming your

28:49

podcast, put your name in it.

28:51

Cause then the BBC

28:51

and NPR can't have it.

28:53

So top gear didn't

28:53

put their name in it.

28:56

And so the BBC kept that IP

28:56

and just put new presenters in.

28:59

Yes, mark Kermode and

28:59

Simon Mayo kept it.

29:02

Peter crouch kept it.

29:03

Emily Maitlis kept it, but

29:03

America, Carson newscast

29:06

stayed with the BBC.

29:07

So put your name

29:07

in your podcast.

29:09

Is the answer,

29:10 James

are you going to

29:10

be doing any podcasts

29:12

with, with Bloomberg

29:14 Ashley

it's possible.

29:15

They have, you know, a

29:15

podcast network, of course.

29:17

but.

29:19

Nothing right now, like nothing,

29:19

you know, on the agenda.

29:22

And I think I'd have to

29:22

probably, I'm just trying

29:24

to get settled first.

29:25

How are you still

29:26 James

getting your

29:26

feet under the table?

29:28

Make sure it says

29:28 Sam

actually Coleman

29:28

in the name, then

29:31 Ashley

I'm going to turn it

29:31

in and keep that going for

29:33 Sam

a minute.

29:33

James is replacing me very soon

29:35 James

and you're doing

29:35

a newsletter as well.

29:36

Aren't you?

29:36

is there, and that's to

29:36

launch later on this year.

29:39

is there a name for that yet?

29:42 Sam

Not

29:42 Ashley

yet.

29:43

no, really, please.

29:45

If you have puns, I accept them.

29:46

but yeah, no, not yet.

29:47

It's going to be a very

29:47

audio centric newsletter.

29:50

Like I said, I'm going

29:50

to be doing some music

29:52

industry coverage as well.

29:53

So I'm really hoping to be

29:53

able to cover both worlds.

29:56

I think that there's going

29:56

to be a great intersection

29:58

of the two spaces.

30:00

Ultimately, we're

30:00

just going to think of

30:01

everything is audio content.

30:02

and so I think what

30:02

happens in podcasts will

30:04

influence the music world.

30:05

So anyway, long

30:05

story short, yes.

30:08

I will be doing a newsletter.

30:09

It should be coming

30:09

up this summer.

30:11

Everybody, please subscribe.

30:14 James

We will put a link in

30:14

the show notes for those of

30:16

you listening, on demand as a

30:16

podcast, we'll be putting a link

30:20

to the show notes, for that.

30:22

But, yeah, no, I'm.

30:24

and is that going to be weekly?

30:25

Have you worked out the

30:25

general shape of that?

30:29 Ashley

The plan was weekly?

30:30

because it's still

30:30

a little bit out.

30:32

We haven't like revisited

30:32

an iron, not the details,

30:34

but as far as I know,

30:34

it will be weekly.

30:36

I'm still figuring out, you

30:36

know, where it slots into the

30:40

podcast newsletter ecosystem,

30:40

like your flatter, you know,

30:43

so trying to figure out what

30:43

I can bring to the table.

30:46

That's a little bit different

30:46

than that's already out there.

30:48 James

yeah, maybe, maybe a

30:48

great way for you, for people

30:50

to be able to follow your,

30:50

your stories without, you know,

30:53

paying for the whole Bloomberg

30:53

thing, which I guess is, you

30:56

know, one of those, one of

30:56

those things too, isn't it

31:00 Sam

now moving on, ah,

31:00

de script, which I like to

31:02

use for audio editing, have

31:02

announced coming out very

31:05

shortly, a first look at

31:05

something called new workflows

31:08

and it let you to editing

31:08

in D script with one click.

31:12

So some of our favorite

31:12

video streamers are there.

31:15

Riverside, our sponsors squad

31:15

cast are friends of the show

31:18

captivate, and one I've not

31:18

really used myself XtremIO,

31:22

but it looks like a D script

31:22

starting to branch out to get

31:26

itself integrated into the work.

31:28

Yeah,

31:28 James

it's all

31:28

really interesting.

31:30

I find it fascinating that

31:30

there are lots of different

31:32

companies now doing plugins

31:32

to other companies just

31:36

to make life, you know, an

31:36

awful lot easier, Riverside

31:38

did that plug into Spotify,

31:38

which was a very clever, you

31:43

know, a very clever move.

31:44

So, yeah, the more of

31:44

that, the better, as

31:46

far as I'm concerned, do

31:47 Sam

you, you don't, as you

31:47

don't have your podcast at the

31:49

moment nationally, but we, do

31:49

you edit it yourself or would

31:52

you be editing it yourself?

31:55 Ashley

I do not edit audio.

31:56

but I have used descript, in

31:56

the past, when I used to do

31:59

a podcast, we use descrip, a

31:59

few times and it's very cool.

32:02

I used it also when we were,

32:02

I did a podcast, I guess it

32:05

was last year now, with the

32:05

synthetic voices and we messed

32:07

with descript software to do

32:07

that, which was, you know,

32:10

creepy and fun and weird.

32:12

but yeah, for someone like

32:12

me who doesn't, you know,

32:14

get super granular editing

32:14

audio, obviously descript

32:17

is a tool that is designed.

32:19

For people like me who need

32:19

to just get it done quick and

32:21

dirty and try to get it over

32:21

with and sounding good enough.

32:27 James

Yeah.

32:27

and it's great.

32:28

It's one of the things that

32:28

I was showing off to the

32:29

radio industry, you know,

32:29

the thesis of the talk that

32:32

I gave at the radio days,

32:32

Europe conference last week was

32:36

basically, we've moved from a

32:36

world where, you have to have

32:39

massive, great, big studios

32:39

and very expensive equipment to

32:42

being able to do pretty well.

32:43

Anything you want on your own

32:43

laptop using consumer, consumer

32:46

technology and showing the

32:46

radio industry, some of the

32:51

new tools that podcasters get

32:51

to play with, and I showed a

32:54

bit of the scripts and, you

32:54

know, you could hear people's,

32:57

you know, gasps and, you

32:57

know, and them going, oh, wow.

33:01

So we don't have to

33:01

use pro tools and all

33:02

this kind of stuff.

33:03

It was really.

33:05

Yeah, it was really interesting.

33:07

And it, to me, I find it

33:07

fascinating the whole world of,

33:11

you know, professional audio.

33:12

If you like, in terms of the,

33:12

in terms of the heritage,

33:15

radio broadcasters, meeting

33:15

the world of podcasting,

33:18

I find it fascinating

33:18

seeing what happens there.

33:20

if you want to

33:21 Sam

know more, they're

33:21

doing a live webinar on

33:23 the 1st of June 9

00 AM.

33:25

Pacific St.

33:27

James.

33:27

Perfect timing.

33:29 James

Oh, excellent.

33:30

yes, that'll be in the middle

33:30

of the night for me, but,

33:32

yes, I'm sure it will be fine.

33:34 Sam

Now let's move

33:34

on to some quick news.

33:36

James, you wrote a piece

33:36

about, a pirated copy of

33:39

your podcast if you found it,

33:39

here's how you can report it.

33:42

Or James, can you report it

33:42

because there is a pirated

33:45

copy of Portland out there

33:46 James

on Spotify.

33:47

Yeah.

33:48

And, reading it, reading

33:48

this in the script is the

33:51

first that I know about it.

33:53

Thanks

33:53 Sam

for reading it early then.

33:54 James

Yeah.

33:56

I'm registered the coffee

33:56

shop a half an hour ago.

33:58

so yes, I, so I'm, I am

33:58

absolutely fascinated

34:01

in, finding out where

34:01

this pirated version of

34:04

the show is coming from.

34:06

What is confusing me and I

34:06

am literally at the moment.

34:09

I am literally at the moment

34:09

doing, hacking into it, to work

34:14

out where it's from weirdly

34:14

it's from Buzzsprout as well.

34:17

So it looks to be a duplicate,

34:17

not a pirate, but we'll

34:21

see what happens there, but

34:21

not a feature, but there's

34:24

a, but there's a story.

34:26

The will be a story in pod

34:26

news next week, or whole

34:30

orientating Bloomberg, later

34:30

on this week, talking about

34:33

what, talking about what some

34:33

podcast hosts are finding their

34:38

free trials being used for.

34:40

so, that's going to be, that's

34:40

going to be entertaining.

34:44

It will be on Monday,

34:44

because there's quite a lot

34:46

of tech information there,

34:46

but yeah, it turns out that

34:49

free trials are being used

34:49

for all kinds of things.

34:51

That was, I was

34:51

completely unaware of.

34:54

so it'll be fun to have a

34:54

look at that and, you know, a

34:57

pirated audio is part of that.

34:59

but there is also, you

34:59

know, other entertaining

35:02

things as well.

35:02

So yeah.

35:04 Ashley

Love a mystery.

35:05

What a little teaser.

35:07

Yeah.

35:07 James

Sorry about it.

35:09

And I, and you know, and I have

35:09

just also taken, the other story

35:12

that I'm hoping to break in the

35:12

next week out of the script.

35:16

Sorry.

35:17

It's somebody is, somebody

35:17

has already tweeted my mind

35:20

at all my little piece of fun

35:20

code, which we will talk about.

35:24

I'm sure.

35:25

Next week, once I've been

35:25

able to get a few statements

35:28

from, companies doing

35:28

some interesting things.

35:30 Sam

Now you want to first

35:30

look at a new company, a new.

35:34

Publishing analytics and growth

35:34

platform called cohost, the

35:36

launch coincides with the

35:36

release of co-hosts first annual

35:39

podcast or insight survey.

35:41

What's all who is co-host James.

35:43 James

Yeah, it's a new

35:43

podcast hosting company, which

35:45

has been produced by Quill

35:45

up in Toronto, in Canada.

35:49

And, you know, very cool.

35:50

It's interesting seeing, I

35:50

think, podcast hosts, beginning

35:53

to niche and beginning to

35:53

really focus on specific

35:56

things, and a co-host is very

35:56

much focusing on, you know,

36:00

growth as well as monetization.

36:03

and you know, really focusing

36:03

on that rather than being

36:05

a podcast host for all

36:05

things, to all people.

36:08

So interesting.

36:09

seeing that they also became

36:09

a gold supporter on pod

36:11

news, which was very kind of

36:11

them, but news.net/support,

36:15

a cast has done some

36:15

integration with pod castle.

36:18

It's another one of those

36:18

integrations, like the.

36:20

The script one that we were

36:20

talking about, earlier,

36:22

I really liked the idea.

36:23

it was an Australian thing, but

36:23

I really liked the idea of a

36:26

company called pod now, which

36:26

is, taking pop-up podcasts,

36:29

studios into conferences.

36:31

We see pop-up podcasts, studios

36:31

in podcasts conferences,

36:35

all the time, but they don't

36:35

normally, you know, they're

36:38

not normally there for the,

36:38

you know, for the, I dunno,

36:41

the toilet association, annual

36:41

conference or the, you know,

36:45

the beanbag, conferences.

36:46

So, you know, a really

36:46

interesting idea of actually

36:49

grabbing the idea, I think is if

36:49

you grab speakers as they come

36:53

off stage, then you can quickly

36:53

get a, an interview with them.

36:56

Turn that into a podcast,

36:56

and then it works.

36:59

It's not case it's

36:59

not catching up.

37:01

no,

37:01 Sam

I don't.

37:02

Like I could do it.

37:02

I like, I just taught

37:02

rubbish until there

37:05

was serious jealousy.

37:06

You could

37:06 James

do what you like.

37:07

I'm not as serious.

37:09

I got no, no

37:09

qualifications at all.

37:12

There's only one, there's

37:12

only one qualified

37:13

journalist on this show.

37:14

Don't look this way.

37:15

Yes.

37:17

What else are we

37:17

seeing this week?

37:19

Sam?

37:20 Sam

The one thing, and Ashley,

37:20

I wonder where the, what you

37:22

think, but, audiograms, you

37:22

know, should you use them?

37:25

Shouldn't you use them?

37:26

There's been reports that

37:26

they're a waste of time.

37:28

No one needs them.

37:29

and now we've got another

37:29

report saying, from Riverside

37:32

saying that audiograms

37:32

work five times, as well

37:34

as static images on social

37:34

media, where do you stand?

37:37

Are we just all pushing noise

37:37

out and no one's listening or is

37:41

there a good way to get podcast

37:41

discovery through audiograms?

37:46 Ashley

I'd be very curious.

37:47

What Riverside's methodology

37:47

is for finding out

37:51

whether audiograms work

37:51

well, but, I don't know.

37:53

if it really is, if it really is

37:53

a significant time suck and you,

37:57

you can measure your engagement,

37:57

I think, on your audio gram.

38:00

So if you're seeing no

38:00

engagement and you're putting

38:01

a time at time, ton of time in.

38:03

It seems to me, you should

38:03

probably give that up.

38:05

But at the same time, I

38:05

totally empathize with people

38:08

who is like, how else are

38:08

you going to put audio out

38:10

on Twitter or something

38:10

like that, which is fair.

38:12

And I do think there

38:12

probably need to be some

38:15

better solutions for it.

38:16

I know people were hoping

38:16

like Facebook ads to be

38:18

able to play audio books.

38:19

I don't think they do right now.

38:21

so I know things like

38:21

that where people are

38:22

hoping that could change.

38:24 James

Yeah.

38:24

and, you know, there's, and

38:24

there's companies like Adori

38:27

labs, which are looking at

38:27

automating the entire thing.

38:30

So being able to automatically

38:30

pull in, you know, images and

38:34

other, stuff to basically make

38:34

the video bit work, which is

38:38

really cool if you can do that.

38:39

So, yeah.

38:40

I, you know, interesting

38:40

seeing, you know, I think

38:43

it's certainly going to be a

38:43

thing in the future in terms

38:46

of YouTube, because obviously,

38:46

you know, you'll need.

38:49

The visuals, their signal

38:49

hill insights released some

38:53

data earlier on in the week

38:53

showing that people, really,

38:56

want to, you know, if there's

38:56

something on YouTube, then they

38:59

want video to be with that.

39:01

So they want it to

39:01

be a nice experience.

39:03

and, and, you know, I know

39:03

that, next week pod news will

39:06

be carrying some really good

39:06

data about how YouTube, how

39:10

popular YouTube is in terms of

39:10

podcasts, audiences as well.

39:14

So, yeah, so it'll

39:14

be fascinating to

39:16

have a look at two.

39:17

Okay.

39:17 Sam

Moving on one more thing.

39:18

Then a road is to release a

39:18

brand new road cast approach

39:23

to, they didn't say they

39:23

were going to do someone

39:26

by mistake, leaked it out.

39:28 James

Yes, a New Zealand

39:28

website, basically published

39:31

the whole thing, which was very

39:31

kind of them for six hours.

39:33

the graphics and images,

39:33

the graphics and images

39:35

on the spec sheet as well,

39:35

which was kind of them.

39:38

it's going to be properly

39:38

launched next week road, of

39:40

course, being an Australian

39:40

company, and, very good to,

39:43

Michael Sterling's Sterling

39:43

clear audio was the, blog

39:46

that, leaked all of that.

39:48

it looks great.

39:49

It looks, you know, you're using

39:49

a road Casta, in front of us

39:52

right now, and I'm sure that,

39:52

the new version is going to be

39:54

even smarter and even cooler.

39:56

So really nice to end up.

39:57

Yeah, now it

39:58 Sam

will eat.

39:59

One of the big things

39:59

is going to allow us to

40:00

do is to put two laptops

40:00

into the same road mixer.

40:03

and you can also do guitar

40:03

and, external mix as well,

40:07 James

which is quite nice.

40:08

10 minutes left.

40:09

Let's talk people, lots of

40:09

move, lots of moves at Spotify.

40:13

Ashley we've seen, changes

40:13

of, senior management, Michael

40:16

Miniato leaving, which I think

40:16

was one of your many scoops,

40:20

max Cutler being, promoted.

40:22

there are OES bill Simmons,

40:22

being promoted to Matt

40:26

Leiber going, folks from

40:26

reply, all going as well.

40:30

What's going on over there.

40:37

Is it as simple, is it as

40:37

simple as, it's a three and a

40:41

half years since given it was

40:41

bought or whatever that is.

40:43

And so therefore it's

40:43

people's contracts.

40:46 Ashley

Yeah.

40:47

I think oftentimes founders

40:47

tend to leave the companies

40:50

once their options vest or

40:50

whatever their contract expires.

40:53

So, you know, I it's always

40:53

tricky because on one hand

40:57

you're like, all these

40:57

people are leaving at once.

40:59

And Courtney hall also left

40:59

that one a bit more striking

41:04

only because he didn't come

41:04

through an acquisition.

41:06

He was hired.

41:06

He was one of the

41:06

original podcast strategy

41:09

architects over there.

41:10

So.

41:12

Yeah, I think there's clearly

41:12

some kind of rethinking around

41:16

how they're structuring things.

41:17

They obviously shut down studio

41:17

for, I think it was in December

41:20

or January of this year.

41:22

and so clearly they're

41:22

reorganizing, rethinking,

41:24

maybe want the shows they

41:24

put effort into and how

41:27

they work with partners.

41:28

and you know, James, you've

41:28

written about this quite a

41:30

bit, like given that many

41:30

of their partner shows the

41:32

splashy announcements haven't

41:32

really come to fruition.

41:36

You know, I think we can fill

41:36

in the blanks there as to maybe

41:39

they do need to rethink how

41:39

they work with these partners.

41:42 James

Yeah, I think it's going

41:42

to be interesting watching.

41:44

I just look into this and

41:44

go, there are so many people,

41:48

there are so many people there.

41:50

and, yeah, I'm surprised at

41:50

how many people are, you know,

41:53

working on that sort of thing.

41:55

So, maybe it's just a case of

41:55

actually, thinning the amount

41:58

of management folk, you know,

41:58

at there, if we are, indeed at

42:03

the start of a recession and the

42:03

start of, you know, some, you

42:06

know, economic issues, one of

42:06

the first things to go in terms

42:09

of that is advertising anyway.

42:10

So, you know, perhaps

42:10

there's a little bit of

42:13

planning, you know, on the.

42:15

Again, maybe it's just a

42:15

case of, you know, it's, it's

42:19

a, you know, the end of, of

42:19

somebody's contract time.

42:22

Yeah.

42:22 Sam

Amazon seems

42:22

to be at it as well.

42:24

So Amazon's director of podcast

42:24

announced he left the company to

42:27

start his own stealth company.

42:30

Todd Pringle.

42:30

Who's been with Amazon podcast

42:30

operations since the start.

42:34

So yeah, that was an

42:34

Ashley scoop as well, by

42:36

the way, just give her the

42:36

credit for that as well.

42:38 James

So we may as well,

42:38

we may as well have a button

42:42

saying another, actually

42:42

another actually comments.

42:45 Ashley

th the verge had

42:45

the McDonald's scoop.

42:47

And then, yeah, I read

42:47

about LIBOR leaving.

42:49 James

so, so what, Amazon

42:49

is fascinating because

42:51

you've got Wondery, which

42:51

you know, is doing great

42:54

guns by all accounts.

42:56

but Amazon doesn't seem to

42:56

be moving the needle in terms

42:58

of a podcast destination.

43:01

we're not necessarily seeing

43:01

Wondery promote Wondery plus in

43:05

the Amazon music podcast player.

43:09

You know what I mean?

43:09

It's all.

43:10

do you see Amazon still

43:10

wanting to be a destination

43:14

in terms of an app?

43:16

You know,

43:17 Ashley

I honestly

43:17

am not totally sure.

43:19

Like, it was very clear that

43:19

Spotify has ambitions both to

43:22

be a place where people like,

43:22

basically they want everyone to

43:24

consume audio on their platform.

43:26

Amazon, you know, is doing

43:26

pretty well regardless.

43:30

So I almost wonder if it's more

43:30

about the advertising business.

43:34

I'm pretty sure insider wrote

43:34

a story the other day about

43:36

how their advertising business.

43:38

Been great for them.

43:39

and I can imagine they see

43:39

podcasting slash audio in

43:42

general, just as a really

43:42

rich place to do that.

43:44

I've been surprised at how

43:44

little I've heard about

43:48

like art 19 as an example.

43:50

It doesn't really, I don't

43:50

really hear people talk about

43:52

it as much, whereas like

43:52

Spotify is constantly pushing

43:54

megaphone and also anchor.

43:56

so yeah, I'm not totally

43:56

sure what their like big,

43:59

broad thinking is, but

43:59

it seems like, you know,

44:01

they're pretty interested in

44:01

locking up those exclusive.

44:04

To do ad sales and

44:04

represent them.

44:06 James

no, it's really, it

44:06

will be really interesting

44:07

to see what goes on there.

44:10

One other person, that we

44:10

should mention is, Elena

44:12

Fernandez Collins, that they're

44:12

well-known podcast critic.

44:15

They've written about,

44:15

podcasting, the host podcasting

44:18

than are working at simple cast.

44:20

so many congratulations, there.

44:22

what else should we do Sam?

44:24 Sam

Very quickly.

44:25

Just one big announcement

44:25

in tech corner.

44:26

the new

44:30 James

Oh, yes, that's right.

44:31

Yes.

44:32

Lots of work in terms of,

44:32

making sure that, you know,

44:35

if you're using a new podcast

44:35

app, you know, that, that your

44:38

favorite podcast is going live.

44:40

we will have, have saddened,

44:40

Adam and Dave by not, using that

44:44

for this, live experience, but,

44:44

who knows what we might, I'm

44:47 Sam

trying to still

44:47

work out how to use it.

44:48

So, yeah, Adam and Dave, come

44:48

on and let me know, please.

44:51

okay.

44:52

we should wrap up there

44:52

very quickly, event corner.

44:55

next week, James, you are

44:55

here for one reason, your

44:58

apart from your Swedish visit,

44:58

you're here for something else.

45:00 James

Yes.

45:01

So I'm here for the podcast show

45:01

2022, which starts on Wednesday.

45:05

there's two full days of a,

45:05

of a business conference.

45:09

there's also a week's

45:09

worth of live shows as

45:10

well, which I think is a

45:10

great plan to do around.

45:13

Podcast, a conference to

45:13

actually get, you know,

45:16

it surprises me when you

45:16

go to these large podcast

45:19

conferences, how little

45:19

talent there is there.

45:21

I don't mean how little

45:21

talent, in terms of people.

45:24

how little podcasts

45:24

are being made there.

45:26

That's what I really mean to

45:26

say, Doug help, digs very hard.

45:29

so, yeah, so that's great

45:29

to end up seeing, so, yeah,

45:32

so I'm hoping to catch a

45:32

few shows there, but that's

45:35

going to be next week.

45:37

You have, you, you have

45:37

done the slightly foolish

45:40

thing of, booking a very

45:40

small pub for a drinks, and

45:44

then publishing on Twitter.

45:48 Sam

I'm having a

45:48

party at the house.

45:49

Here's it?

45:50

Here's the announcement

45:50

on Facebook?

45:51

No one else will turn up.

45:52

Honestly, dad, here's the

45:54 James

address.

45:54

So yeah.

45:55

So good luck with that,

45:55

but I'm looking forward

45:56

to that on a Tuesday.

45:57

That should be fun.

45:58 Sam

Yeah.

45:58 Tuesday evening 6

00 PM.

45:59

If you're in Belgravia, 17th

45:59

century, Which is haunted.

46:03

It's the old Grenadier guards

46:05 James

officer club.

46:06

See what you're missing.

46:07

Ashley.

46:07

See what you're missing?

46:09 Ashley

That sounds cool.

46:12 James

Yeah,

46:13 Sam

it's okay.

46:14

I'll be there.

46:14 James

yeah, you could be

46:14

working on, Bloomberg has

46:16

some very posh offices in the

46:16

city, so you should be working

46:19

out or there for this week.

46:20

and of course, podcast

46:20

movement coming up in

46:22

Dallas, in Texas in, August.

46:24

I really must have

46:24

organized my, tickets for

46:26 Sam

that.

46:26

Yeah.

46:26

And one other event that we

46:26

want to publicize Pinterest has

46:29

been announced as the lead part

46:29

of the international women's

46:32

podcast festival here in London.

46:34

the event is Saturday,

46:34

June the 18th, James.

46:37

You've been very

46:37

kindly offering,

46:39 James

some discounts.

46:39

Yeah.

46:40

It's not me kindly

46:40

offering them.

46:41

it's the organizers, but yes,

46:41

if you are outside the UK and

46:44

you just want a virtual ticket,

46:44

then there's money off that.

46:46

And there's also virtual.

46:47

and then there's also

46:47

in-person tickets for

46:49

the UK, folk as well.

46:50

You'll find all the details

46:50

in our show notes and the pod

46:54

news newsletter at pod news.

46:55 Sam

James.

46:55

Now, what's been happening

46:55

for you in Portland?

46:59 James

yes, I've been, I tell

46:59

you one thing I did do, I took

47:02

the seventh longest commercial

47:02

flight to get here from Dom.

47:07

all the way to London.

47:08

and if you're interested in

47:08

that, then, you should, yeah,

47:11

go back through my Twitter or

47:11

something and find the seventh

47:14

law find my trip report.

47:16

Cause I rather tediously

47:16

I'm one of these people

47:18

that writes, to keep myself

47:18

sane on long journeys.

47:21

and just write a log of what

47:21

people just watch films, James.

47:24

Yeah, I know.

47:25

I don't

47:26 Sam

drink

47:27 James

alcohol.

47:28

Yeah.

47:28

Oh, I know I do that.

47:29

Do both.

47:30

so that was fun.

47:31

went to see my family

47:31

in Wales in Welsh Wales,

47:33

which was also fun.

47:35

trying desperately to

47:35

drive a stick shift car.

47:37

And the first time, for the

47:37

first time in six years,

47:40

it's not going very well.

47:41

so I got here.

47:43

Yeah, I got, might not get back.

47:44

I got here.

47:45

It's the funny sort of

47:45

smell of, of burning

47:47

when you're in reverse.

47:48

That slightly concerns me.

47:50

what's happening for you

47:50

this week in Portland, Sam?

47:52

the last

47:52 Sam

week I was doing something

47:52

called podcasts in the park.

47:55

it was an events.

47:56

So, local chefs, Michelin chefs,

47:56

Tom carriage, Michelle brew.

48:00

I interviewed them.

48:01

I interviewed the remaining

48:01

sister sledge sister that

48:04

was quite entertaining.

48:06

She had her daughters

48:06

with her onstage.

48:07

So they're called the

48:07

sister sledge now, but

48:09

it's only one sister.

48:11

The other two that

48:11

are what they're done.

48:12

Didn't ask her to schedule.

48:15 James

Sister daughter sledge.

48:17

Yeah.

48:18 Sam

Yeah.

48:18

Rag and bone man and McFly.

48:19

So that was a bit of fun.

48:21

Last week.

48:21

I will be with you

48:21

at the podcast show.

48:25

I'm on stage for so many

48:25

talking about, the growing love

48:29

affair between podcasts, film,

48:29

and TV, and actually Sony.

48:33

I'm curious, we never

48:33

talk about them.

48:34

We talk about Amazon,

48:34

we've talked about apple.

48:36

We talk about Spotify,

48:36

but Sony are investing

48:38

heavily into podcasting.

48:40

So it'd be interesting to

48:40

see what they have to say.

48:42 James

Yeah, most definitely.

48:43

And, with their acquisition of

48:43

something else, you know, that's

48:46

a big UK powerhouse that w

48:46

which has gone in there as well.

48:49

so yeah, absolutely.

48:50

I will also be onstage

48:50

at the podcast show.

48:52

I'm doing a session about

48:52

monetization, with a

48:55

bunch of people from Sony.

48:57

I'm doing a session about.

48:59

Tenderfoot TV, which will

48:59

be really interesting.

49:01

I know very little about tend

49:01

to foot TV and, by Wednesday

49:04

I'll know a lot more because

49:04

I had to read up about it in

49:09

order to ask some sensible

49:09

questions of, Donald Albright.

49:12

And, and I'm also talking

49:12

about where the future

49:15

of podcasting is going.

49:16

So we'll, we'll

49:16

see how that goes.

49:18 Sam

What's happening

49:18

for you, Ashley?

49:19

What's coming up.

49:21

What's

49:22 Ashley

coming up.

49:23

Wow.

49:23

I don't want to give away

49:23

too much of what I'm working

49:25 Sam

on.

49:27

What are you like?

49:30 Ashley

Hey James, not mine.

49:31

Aren't in the show notes, so

49:31

I don't have to read them.

49:36

It's going to be 90 degrees

49:36

in New York tomorrow.

49:38

Supposedly I don't know

49:38

what that is in Celsius.

49:40

I can't help you,

49:40

but I'm very warm.

49:42

Yeah.

49:43

It was very warm.

49:44

So I might try to make

49:44

my way to the beach.

49:46

We'll

49:46 Sam

see.

49:47

Oh,

49:47 James

very nice.

49:48

32 Celsius.

49:49

For those of you playing

49:49

along it to home.

49:51

we're off for a crafty tug now.

49:52

Aren't we?

49:53

Yes.

49:53

W which is a, which

49:53

is Sam's, Sam's, boat

49:57

where he serves beer.

49:58

Yup.

49:59 Sam

Yup.

50:00

50:00 Ashley

have a ton.

50:01

Okay.

50:01

I'm really coming out to

50:01

London next year because

50:04

I want that boat invite.

50:05

I want the 17th

50:05

century pub invite.

50:08

Ah,

50:08 Sam

yeah.

50:08

And now I'm going to show you

50:08

when the other ones we've got

50:10

eight double Decker buses.

50:12

this'll be

50:12 James

great.

50:13

this is a great

50:13 Sam

podcast.

50:15

That's for those who can't

50:15

see, that's the inside

50:17

of the double Decker.

50:19

So we've got a studio.

50:20 James

It looks like London.

50:23

Excellent.

50:24

we will, yes.

50:25

come next year for podcast

50:25

show 20, 23, if they haven't

50:29

gone bust and she podcasts.

50:30

No, absolutely.

50:31

she, podcasts will be good.

50:32

do you have a date for that?

50:33 Sam

No, but I have a new venue.

50:37 James

And we're aligned

50:37

on that bombshell.

50:38

that's it for this week, if

50:38

you like pipeline, tell others

50:41

to visit, tell your friends on

50:41

Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, Tik

50:44

TOK, or, wherever and wherever

50:47 Sam

you can also email

50:47

comments at Podland dot noodle.

50:50

Find all of our previous

50:50

shows and the interviews

50:52

at the pod landowner news.

50:53 James

if you want daily

50:53

news, you should get pod news.

50:55

The newsletter is free

50:55

at pod news dot nets.

50:57

The podcasts can be found

50:57

in your podcast app and

50:59

all the stories we've

50:59

discussed on pod land today

51:01

are in the show notes.

51:02

We use chapters and transcripts

51:02

too, and I should also point

51:04

out obviously, if you want to

51:04

learn more about what Ashley is

51:08

doing, then you should be going

51:08

to have a look on, Bloomberg.

51:12

is there a simple URL,

51:12

Ashley that we should

51:14

be pointing people to?

51:16 Ashley

I feel like anytime

51:16

you're telling people to go

51:18

to a URL, it's never going

51:18

to be simple, follow me on

51:21

Twitter at Ashley R Carmen.

51:23

I tweet all my stories.

51:24

So you'll

51:25 Sam

find it there.

51:26

I thought just asked

51:26

me the question.

51:27

Mostly the all star.

51:29 Ashley

Oh, my middle

51:29

initial, unfortunately,

51:32

Ashley Carmen at Salesforce.

51:34

If she has listened to

51:34

this podcast, please

51:36

give me the handle off.

51:38

Don't use it.

51:39

I pretty sure people

51:39

have followed you because

51:41

they think you're me.

51:42

Like let's just.

51:43 James

I once, I want

51:43

a mess, a lovely woman.

51:46

This was about 15, 20 years

51:46

ago, in Dublin, in Ireland.

51:50

And she was absolutely, you

51:50

know, I was quite, quite

51:53

to smitten and she contacts

51:53

James Cridland on Facebook.

51:57

and everything goes really

51:57

quiet for about two weeks.

52:00

and I think, oh, that's a shame.

52:02

Cause you know, cause she was

52:02

quite fun and it turns out

52:05

that she was talking to James

52:05

crit and the student from

52:07

Bristol, you bastard, James

52:07

critical student from Bristol.

52:12

That's all I could say.

52:13

Not still forgotten I'm

52:13

music is from ignites.

52:17

Jingles were hosted and

52:17