Podland News

The last word in podcasting news. Every Thursday, James Cridland from Podnews in Australia and Sam Sethi, from 'Podcast First' River Radio in the UK, review and analyse some of the week's top podcasting news from around the world. They also interview some of the biggest names making the news. Sponsored by Buzzsprout and SquadCast.

https://podland.news

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episode 75: Scoop Queen Ashley Carman joins us. Apple announces Podcasts Delegated Delivery. No Anchor or Megaphone. Are you team Spotify or team Apple? RØDECaster Pro II leaked. Curiocaster and Podverse support <podcast:liveItem> tag. [transcript]


Sponsors

  • Buzzsprout - last week, 3,282 people started a podcast with Buzzsprout 
  • Squadcast - Create high-quality audio and video content just using your browser and using Dolby Enhanced Audio Mastering, they’ll sound better than ever.

Special Guest

  • Ashley Carman  - Bloomberg

Show Notes & Links

  • James Cridland Radio Days Europe - Roundup

  • Selling paid subscriptions through Apple Podcasts? Until now, you’ve had to upload that audio separately to Apple; but Apple Podcasts Delegated Delivery was announced yesterday, allowing creators to upload and manage that audio through selected podcast hosting companies when this feature launches in Q3.

    • A number of initial podcast hosting companies have been announced including RSS·com, Libsyn and Buzzsprout; but if you run a podcast hosting company and wish to participate in Delegated Delivery, you’re encouraged to fill out this form.  (Memo to Apple: here’s a list).

    • "Interesting that both of Spotify's hosting platforms, megaphone and anchor, arent participating at launch."- Ashley C

    • "Spotify works with third parties to support its subscription offering, too. the only overlap is acast, at least according to the initial partner list. curious if this means there's now additional stratification in podcast world: team Spotify or team Apple "- Ashley C
  • iOS 15.5, iPadOS 15.5, and macOS 12.4 were made available yesterday. This brings annual paid subscriptions within the Apple Podcasts app. We told you last month; you can add an annual plan now.

  • With the new iOS, the Apple Podcasts app has had a welcome tweak for automatic download settings, with per-show customisation. You’ll find the new settings in your Settings app on iPhone and iPad. The app will now also recommend removing old downloads when necessary.

  • And one more thing - Finally: the next version of macOS adds an auto-delete function to Apple Podcasts.

  • RØDE is to release the RØDECaster Pro II, an updated mixer

  • Podcasting 2.0 apps that support the new <podcast:liveItem> tag, include Curiocaster: and Podverse. 


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 2022-05-21  56m
 
 
00:00  James
Welcome to Podland.
00:01
The last word in
00:01
podcasting news.
00:02
It's Friday, the
00:02
20th of May, 2022.
00:06
I am James Cridland, the editor
00:06
of podnews.net and Sam Sethi,
00:10  Sam
the MD of River Radio,
00:10
the podcast radio station.
00:13
Now on DAB.
00:14  Ashley
I'm Ashley Carmen,
00:14
a reporter at Bloomberg.
00:16
I am a guest on
00:16
this podcast this
00:18  James
week.
00:19
It's going to be very exciting
00:19
all the way through, Portland
00:22
sponsored by squad cars, the
00:22
remote recording studio that
00:24
your audience will love.
00:25
Squad cars creates high CASI,
00:25
audio and video content, just
00:29
using a browser and using
00:29
Dolby enhanced audio mastering
00:32
they'll sound better than ever.
00:34
And as a disclosure, thanks
00:34
called cars, but we're
00:36
not using you this week.
00:37
We're using we using a stream
00:37
in case anything goes wrong.
00:44
Don't go blaming squad guys.
00:45
And we're also sponsored
00:45
by Buzzsprout podcast.
00:47
Hosting made easy last
00:47
week, 3,282 people started
00:52
a podcast with Buzzsprout.
00:53
You can too@buzzsprout.com
00:53
and because Buzzsprout
00:56
support that's cheaters
00:56
and transcripts, we do two
01:00  Sam
Podland is the James
01:00
now review the latest news
01:03
and the podcast industry.
01:04
And this week we're
01:04
joined by Ashley coming.
01:06
Hello?
01:07
Ashley, where in
01:07
the world are you?
01:11  Ashley
I am in Brooklyn,
01:11
New York right now.
01:14
Yeah,
01:14  James
I'm slightly,
01:14
slightly cold.
01:16
Look there we are.
01:16
I'm slightly concerned.
01:18
Let me just do a quick retweet,
01:18
there, that will be a good idea.
01:20
Wouldn't it?
01:21
so yes, it's all.
01:22
It's all a thrill.
01:23
I haven't done anything
01:23
live for a long time.
01:25
So if I don't look
01:25
at the camera.
01:28
I have bought ball book and
01:28
all that is that racist?
01:32
I don't know.
01:33
I guess I've been at radio days,
01:33
Europe, in, Malmo in Sweden.
01:36
and, yeah, always a future
01:36
in scripted podcasts, which
01:40
I thought was, interesting.
01:41
and, yeah, quite a difficult gig
01:41
given that he was essentially
01:45
in front of a load of, people
01:45
from the radio industry and
01:49
obviously, you know, the Spotify
01:49
and the radio industry, possibly
01:53
not the best of bedfellows.
01:54
so it was interesting
01:54
seeing, seeing that
01:56  Sam
as, you know, Ashley,
01:56
you might not know, but I
01:58
also own a radio station and
01:58
I call it a podcast first
02:02
radio station, because all
02:02
our shows are one hour long.
02:05
We podcast them automatically.
02:07
And I think that the marriage
02:07
between podcasting and radio is
02:11
going to become a very similar,
02:11
I think what's the difference
02:14
between a one hour show that,
02:14
you know, the only thing that's
02:17
different is when you've got a
02:17
live football or a live sport.
02:21
Otherwise, I don't think there's
02:21
a lot of differences though.
02:23  James
you know, yeah.
02:24
you know, a live radio is
02:24
useful and important for some
02:27
things, that you shouldn't
02:27
probably underestimate the,
02:31
the excitement of, you know,
02:31
hearing something at the
02:33
same time as everybody else.
02:35
but yeah, actually, I
02:35
don't know how much, do
02:37
you listen to live radio?
02:38
You've got some of the best
02:38
live radio in New York city.
02:42
Now
02:42  Ashley
that I commute to the
02:42
office, three times a week,
02:45
I listened to WIC in the
02:45
morning when I get ready, which
02:49
genuinely I just find to be
02:49
the best way to get the news.
02:53
It's one.
02:53
I can just listen to my
02:53
AirPods when I'm getting
02:55
ready, but two, I get a
02:55
sampling of everything it's
02:57
local, as well as they bring
02:57
in some of the news from NPR.
03:00
So it has the entire country
03:00
and the world later on,
03:03
this is a little later for
03:03
me, but they do the BBC.
03:05
So yeah, I do
03:05
listen to the radio.
03:08
I really enjoyed as a morning
03:08
routine, but I do think having
03:11
the podcast version would
03:11
be helpful if I missed that.
03:14
And in the evening I'm like,
03:14
what did I miss this morning?
03:17
I could go back and listen.
03:18
So I do think, didn't
03:18
Spotify by Wishkah and isn't
03:20
their whole business around
03:20
making radio, like on demand
03:24
and helping serve ads.
03:25
So it's
03:26  Sam
exactly what I use.
03:27
So basically I use with
03:27
my radio station, so that's
03:31
how I secretly used it.
03:33
yeah, so we take the
03:33
live feed from this radio
03:35
station that, and literally
03:35
within five minutes of
03:37
the radio station program,
03:37
finishing it's available
03:40
as a spot, as a podcast.
03:43  Ashley
It's like, why not?
03:45
Exactly.
03:47  Sam
Now you met some
03:47
people out there as well.
03:49
You will send Matt, Tom Webster,
03:49
formally of Edison research.
03:52
Now with
03:53  James
she's still with
03:53
Edison research until
03:56
the end of this month.
03:57
Yeah.
03:57
He was talking about, habits
03:57
being the number one growth
04:00
opportunity for podcasting, you
04:00
know, very much pointing out.
04:03
You know, that, that is
04:03
it's something I've been
04:05
saying for a while as well.
04:06
The reason why radio is so
04:06
successful, the reason why
04:09
nine out of 10 people still do.
04:11
To, to the radio and the, you
04:11
know, the UK figures have just
04:14
come out and even more young
04:14
people are listening to the
04:16
radio, which I find amazing.
04:18
but the reason because of
04:18
that is because it's habit.
04:20
and that's what people, you
04:20
know, are, you know, people
04:23
have woken up to the radio
04:23
for years and, that's what,
04:26
we'll continue, driving that.
04:28
And Tom was very much arguing
04:28
that habit will be the
04:31
thing that makes, podcasting
04:31
continue to end up growing.
04:35
so he was great at what was
04:35
fascinating is he was talking
04:37
next to, Denmark radios, Rasmus,
04:37
Kidder, and Rasmus was basically
04:42
saying exactly the same thing.
04:44
And they hadn't even, you
04:44
know, checked, you know, any
04:47
of that, any of that stuff.
04:48
So that was good.
04:50
The other person, who I thought
04:50
was really interesting, we
04:53
had a session, there was a
04:53
podcast summit at the, radio
04:56
days, Europe, and we had a
04:56
session about monetization.
05:00
Rob Greenlee was, speaking from
05:00
the Libsyn's advertised cast
05:04
and very much talking about,
05:04
you know, how monetization
05:07
works and everything else.
05:08
And then we had Daniella
05:08
Murphy from a cast and she
05:12
looks after podcast creative
05:12
in the UK and Ireland.
05:15
And, she was just talking
05:15
really passionately about
05:19
how good radio, sorry, how
05:19
good, you know, advertising
05:23
can be how good podcast
05:23
advertising can be from.
05:27
and just some really nice
05:27
ideas around creative that
05:30
were, you know, more things
05:30
than just, you know, non-stop.
05:35
You know, non-stop, you know,
05:35
radio spots and stuff like that.
05:39
So it was great actually
05:39
seeing something from a cast,
05:43
which was, you know, really
05:43
talking about the interesting
05:46
creative things that you can
05:46
do in terms of advertising.
05:48
and people only mentioned
05:48
how intimate podcasting
05:51
was about seven times.
05:52
So that was good.
05:53
So, we didn't do too much
05:55  Sam
there.
05:56
Okay.
05:56
Ashley, how come you weren't out
05:56
of radio days, Europe as well.
06:00  Ashley
I want to
06:00
come see Europe.
06:02
I'm ready next year.
06:03
I am actually going to Europe
06:03
in a few weeks, but not for
06:08
fun podcasts conferences.
06:10  Sam
We're okay.
06:11
There we ask, where
06:11
are you going?
06:13  Ashley
I'm going to
06:13
Spain for a wedding.
06:16
And the in patrol, if
06:16
anyone has recommendations,
06:18
please send them my way.
06:21  Sam
If you're there, I'll
06:21
let you know a few places.
06:23  James
Yes.
06:24
Keep him keep your mobile
06:24
phone, you know, safe
06:27
safely on your assault.
06:30  Ashley
Oh, I might get a burner
06:33  James
phone for, but, yeah,
06:33
but it's a lovely place.
06:36
And, the home of rss.com, who
06:36
one half is based there and
06:40
also the home of, evokes, who
06:40
are a good bunch of people, but
06:43
you're not going there for work.
06:45
So it will be the last,
06:49  Sam
yeah.
06:50
But next year, Ashley, we'll
06:50
get you over because we're
06:53
just Calphalon is going to
06:53
be doing she podcasts over.
06:56
Oh
06:56  Ashley
fun.
06:57
Yes.
06:57
I really do want to come over.
06:59
I keep
06:59  Sam
announcing.
07:00  James
Yeah, you keep up.
07:01
You keep on announcing.
07:02
This is, this news
07:04  Sam
is to Jess.
07:07  James
Just to me, that would be
07:08  Sam
reporting this.
07:10
You should ask.
07:11
I sent her a list of
07:11
speakers the other day.
07:13
Oh, excellent.
07:14
I've got a venue for it.
07:16
There you go.
07:17
Yeah.
07:17
The William Wallace gallery.
07:19
Beautiful old
07:19  James
gallery, gallery
07:19
named after a man.
07:21
Good work, Sam.
07:23
Okay.
07:26  Sam
Good point James up.
07:27
We'll have to chase out venue
07:32  James
anyway, moving
07:33  Sam
on.
07:33
Yes, indeed.
07:34
So, Brian Barletta, friend
07:34
of the show, he was also,
07:37
over there at radio days.
07:39
what was Brian talking about?
07:40  James
Yeah, he was, he
07:40
did a couple of sessions.
07:43
I think what was exciting
07:43
about radio days or it was
07:45
the, there was this specific
07:45
session all around podcasting
07:48
and the podcast summit, which
07:48
I'm moderated on the Sunday.
07:53
And then there were
07:53
lots of different things
07:55
around podcasting during
07:55
the main event as well.
07:58
And it's been the case I've
07:58
been going to radio days,
08:01
Europe for the last 13 years.
08:03
It's been the case
08:03
that podcasting has
08:05
always been Thing.
08:06
and isn't the main focus,
08:06
but actually much more
08:09
podcasting, in the main
08:09
session, including a session
08:13
with Brian and Rob Greenlee
08:13
was there, Judy Shapiro was
08:16
over from, PRX and Radiotopia.
08:18
so, you know, really good
08:18
to hear that as well.
08:22
And if you'd like to hear
08:22
a full interview with Julie
08:24
Shapiro, and that is, on
08:24
Matt Deegan's podcast, it's
08:28
called the media podcast.
08:30
and, I'm on it as well.
08:32
trying to, you know, take part
08:32
in a quiz, but you can fast
08:34
forward through that, but, but
08:34
Julie's bit is really good.
08:36
So it's, worth worth
08:36
having a, listen,
08:37  Sam
not a show spoiler,
08:37
but can I just say James.
08:39  James
you clearly
08:39
haven't listened yet game.
08:43
That's all I can say.
08:44  Sam
okay, that's also put
08:44
a, in his newsletter this
08:47
week, more confidence about
08:47
platforms talking about how
08:49
radio stations are now not
08:49
driving traffic, which is
08:52
interesting to other platforms
08:52
like apple and Spotify, but
08:56
are trying to keep all the
08:56
traffic on their own platforms.
08:59  James
Now, there was a brand
08:59
new story this week, all about
09:02
apple podcasts made a few
09:02
tweaks and tucks to their,
09:05
mobile app, but also, or
09:05
their iOS app, obviously still
09:09
waiting for that Android app.
09:10
They're not stupid.
09:11
they'll launch that soon.
09:12
but they also launched a apple
09:12
podcast to delegated delivered.
09:16
Okay.
09:17
which is quite an,
09:17
name, isn't it.
09:19
Ashley, what, what was
09:19
apple podcasts, delegated,
09:22
delegated delivery.
09:24
Did you, did you figure out a
09:24
simple way of explaining it?
09:27  Ashley
the simplest way
09:27
is that apple podcast
09:29
subscriptions, which is very
09:29
proprietary, you have to
09:32
use their backend to upload
09:32
your subscription content.
09:34
If you want the button
09:34
on the app, obviously you
09:36
can do private RSS feeds.
09:38
Now you can do it through
09:38
some of the hosting providers
09:40
that they're working with.
09:41
So you don't have to
09:41
necessarily log into the
09:43
backend upload that content.
09:44
it's through an API,
09:44
which I think some people
09:46
found pretty interesting,
09:46
cause it's relatively
09:48
new for apple podcast.
09:50
so yeah, I mean it's Def
09:50
I think it's pretty cool.
09:52
It's interesting in comparison
09:52
to Spotify guys, I think
09:55
they call it open access
09:55
for their subscription work,
09:58
where they're working with.
10:00
More like subscription oriented
10:00
platforms, like a super
10:03
cast or something versus the
10:03
actual hosting platforms.
10:07
so pretty interesting
10:07
comparisons there.
10:09  James
Yeah.
10:10
I thought it was interesting.
10:11
you know, I think, Spotify
10:11
is open access would work.
10:13
For example, if you pay money
10:13
to Bloomberg and Bloomberg,
10:16
we'd like to make some, you
10:16
know, super paid for podcasts,
10:20
then you could log in through
10:20
your Spotify account and
10:23
somehow get that in there.
10:24
whereas, you know, and I think
10:24
a cast has worked on the same
10:27
sort of thing as well, but
10:27
really interesting to see apple,
10:31
as you say, working on an API,
10:31
opening that, one would guess
10:36
that perhaps they'll also be,
10:36
you know, just adding a really
10:39
simple publish your podcast
10:39
on apple podcasts button.
10:43
At some point, I know that,
10:43
Buzzsprout was telling us, a
10:46
while back that, only something
10:46
like 69% of their show.
10:50
Are available on apple podcasts.
10:53
So, you know, a third of people
10:53
on, Buzzsprout just find getting
10:57
their show into apple podcasts,
10:57
too difficult, too complicated.
11:01
You need credit cards, you need
11:01
access to a laptop of some sort.
11:06
so therefore actually, you
11:06
know, if this also helps,
11:10
make life a little bit easier
11:10
to get into apple podcasts.
11:12
And that's probably
11:12
a good thing too.
11:15
Yeah.
11:15
I
11:15  Sam
noticed, sorry,
11:15
Ashley, go on.
11:18  Ashley
I was just gonna say,
11:18
it seems like there may be
11:19
taking a bit of a cue from
11:19
the six success of anchor.
11:23
Spotify at least has
11:23
seen quite an influx of
11:25
podcasts according to them.
11:26
So if nothing else, it seems
11:26
like they're at least taking
11:28
a little bit of a cue.
11:29
They're aiming for
11:29
that creator audience.
11:33  Sam
I noticed somebody called
11:33
Ashley, see on Twitter noted a
11:36
little point, that, you know,
11:36
you want to add on this, but it
11:38
was, you noted that megaphone
11:38
at anchor, weren't participating
11:41
in this launch for some strange.
11:44  Ashley
Yeah.
11:44
I just thought that was,
11:44
you know, pretty striking,
11:46
considering I think many
11:46
of the big networks use
11:49
megaphone, an apple podcast
11:49
subscriptions launched with
11:51
some of the biggest networks.
11:53
So, yeah, I just thought it
11:53
was an interesting contrast.
11:57
I'm curious if they
11:57
will work together.
11:59
I don't know if they're
11:59
frenemies, enemies, friends.
12:01
I have no idea.
12:03  Sam
Yeah.
12:03
Eight car seems to be
12:03
the only one who's in.
12:05
Got a foot in both camps.
12:08  James
They've got a foot in
12:08
both camps, but they've not
12:10
actually, they've said that
12:10
they will launch with Spotify
12:13
open access at some point in
12:13
the future, but they haven't
12:17
launched with that yet.
12:18
my understanding is that
12:18
all of these services are,
12:21
you know, they're great.
12:22
But, in terms of
12:22
Spotify, there's an issue
12:25
around caching audio.
12:26
It comes back to the way that
12:26
Spotify has always worked.
12:29
And so therefore that may not
12:29
be of interest to somebody
12:33
like, potentially ma you know,
12:33
a cast, because of the way
12:37
that a cast monetizes, but,
12:37
yeah, you know, interesting.
12:40
And we don't necessarily know
12:40
whether or not apple works in
12:44
the same way as well, because if
12:44
delegated delivery, I think the
12:48
clue is in the word delivery,
12:48
that's delivering audio to.
12:53
For them to then make available
12:53
in there in their platform.
12:57
It doesn't sound as if that's
12:57
going to be still served
13:00
by the host sounds as if
13:00
it's going to be cashed by
13:02
apple, as it currently works.
13:04
So, you know, again, is
13:04
there a question around how
13:07
that works with a company?
13:09
Like, like a cast,
13:09
but, yeah, interesting
13:12
to end up seeing them
13:13  Sam
maybe the way that
13:13
YouTube integrates as well with
13:15
hosts, because clearly they'll
13:15
want to cash it locally and
13:19
want to host it themselves.
13:21  James
Yeah.
13:22
you know, YouTube is fascinating
13:22
because of course it's
13:24
producing lots of different
13:24
versions of the video.
13:26
as indeed Spotify is when
13:26
you do a video podcast, it's
13:29
producing lots of different
13:29
versions of the video.
13:31
So again, you know, is
13:31
YouTube going to have, I'm
13:36
going to have past pass
13:36
through or not for specific
13:39
podcast hosts, you know?
13:41
who knows?
13:42
I certainly have you heard any,
13:42
anything, obviously YouTube
13:45
is sponsoring something, at
13:45
the podcast show next week I
13:50
will be standing on a YouTube
13:50
stage show showing a slide from
13:54
YouTube that I shouldn't have.
13:55
so we'll see.
13:56
We'll see if that, we'll see.
13:59
Yeah, we'll see if that
13:59
ends up flying, do you know
14:03
whether or not they might be
14:03
announcing anything next week?
14:06  Sam
Watch those James.
14:07
They are very carefully.
14:12  Ashley
I haven't
14:12
gotten anything.
14:13
I'm very curious.
14:15
I think we've all been
14:15
waiting now for months.
14:18
Kai's been in the
14:18
position for a bit now.
14:20
Not, I don't think it's been
14:20
a full year or anything, but
14:22
still it's been a minute.
14:23
I'm excited to hear if they
14:23
announce anything I'm waiting
14:25
for it to, but now I know.
14:28  James
Yeah, it'll be
14:28
interesting to find out I'm,
14:30
you know, some people have
14:30
been saying, oh yeah, they're
14:32
going to, they're going to be
14:32
announcing something and I'm
14:34
there and I'm there in reality.
14:37
Why would they be announcing
14:37
something in a small country
14:41
off the coast of Europe?
14:42
what, why would that
14:42
be a thing if you're a
14:44
big American company?
14:45
So I, I don't think that's going
14:45
to be, where they announced
14:48
it, if they are announcing
14:48
something, but, you know, I
14:51
could well be proved wrong
14:53  Sam
again,
14:53
disappointment to dot.
14:55
Oh, we're looking
14:55
forward to it now.
14:57
talking about companies,
14:57
announcing stuff.
14:59
Apple came out this
14:59
week with iOS 15.5 iPad,
15:03
15.5, a Mac iOS 12.4.
15:06
Sounds like they've been
15:06
bringing stuff out before WWDC.
15:10
Biggest thing was they bringing
15:10
out, annual paid subscriptions
15:13
within the apple podcast app,
15:13
but also one thing that you
15:17
noted, James was apple podcast
15:17
app has now had a work and tweak
15:20
for automatic download settings.
15:22
What are they doing?
15:24  James
Yeah.
15:24
So now you can basically
15:24
say, I want to keep every
15:27
single episode of this show,
15:27
but I only want to keep the
15:29
last episode of that show.
15:31
For example, if you know,
15:31
nobody wants to keep, 20 or 30.
15:35
Pardon uses in there, you know,
15:35
in their app, but they might
15:38
want to keep the latest one.
15:39
so, yeah, so I'm surprised that
15:39
it didn't have, I don't use,
15:43
you know, iPhone has regular
15:43
listeners will know, so I was
15:46
surprised to learn that he
15:46
didn't actually have that sort
15:49
of control in there anyway.
15:51
I think it's interesting, you
15:51
know, actually seeing apple
15:53
podcasts, basically continuing
15:53
to work on that app, continuing
15:58
to tweak it, the word there
15:58
was a time, I think wasn't
16:02
the aware, the were no new
16:02
features in the apple podcasts
16:05
app for a number of years.
16:07
And now we're seeing, you
16:07
know, tweaks, every single,
16:11
you know, it seems like
16:11
every single version of, iOS.
16:14  Ashley
Yeah.
16:15
clearly there's a
16:15
vested interest there.
16:17
I don't know how high
16:17
up it goes, but the fact
16:19
that they see potentially
16:19
a revenue opportunity
16:21
with the subscriptions
16:21
creating delegate delivery.
16:24
I you have to make sure
16:24
your app is up to snuff if
16:27
you're going to want people
16:27
to be using it all the time.
16:29
So, I'm glad to see
16:29
investment there, more
16:31
hiring and new products and.
16:33  James
we w you know, Sam
16:33
and I joke, or rather,
16:35
I joke mostly about, you
16:35
know, apple aren't stupid.
16:38
They're going to be
16:38
launching an Android app.
16:40
they already have an Android
16:40
app, of course, for TV.
16:42
They've got one for apple music.
16:44
they've got one for, you know,
16:44
warned me if I'm being tracked
16:47
by one of those horrible
16:47
little, tracking things.
16:49
so they've clearly got,
16:49
Android apps there.
16:51
do you think I'm mad
16:51
assuming that they're not,
16:54  Ashley
I been waiting also
16:54
for that announcement because
16:57
I'm like they have to, they
16:57
just have to, if you're, if
17:00
you want a subscription to do
17:00
well, you have to, you want more
17:03
people to be able to access it.
17:04
So, yeah, even that
17:04
Android is the dominant.
17:08
Oh, less for smartphones.
17:09
They should probably
17:09
consider launching one sooner
17:11  James
than later.
17:12
I have a 200,000 sat bet with
17:12
Adam Curry as to whether or
17:17
not they will launch one.
17:18
I say they will, by the end of
17:18
the year, Adam says they won't.
17:21
So we'll find out really the
17:25  Ashley
end of the year.
17:26
Okay.
17:27
that's I don't know.
17:28
I don't know.
17:29
At the end of this year, I
17:29
hope they do it in general,
17:34
but I don't know, for some
17:34
reason I'm not feeling by
17:36
the end of this year, but I
17:36
could literally guessing, so.
17:39  James
Yeah.
17:40
so Ashley, you know, you
17:40
spent six years at the verge.
17:43
you, did all kinds
17:43
of things with them.
17:46
you, you wrote a, of course
17:46
you wrote a hot pot, which I
17:50
believe is a podcast newsletter,
17:50
which is very exciting.
17:52
you have been with Bloomberg
17:52
for what, three months.
17:55
Now tell me that.
17:58
And so, and so, you know, how
17:58
different have you found that?
18:01
is it, I always think of
18:01
Bloomberg as being very
18:04
serious and very, you know,
18:04
very business focused.
18:09
is it quite diff
18:09
different working for a
18:11
company like, like that
18:14  Ashley
it's definitely
18:14
different because like the
18:16
output in general where, I,
18:16
now I'm not doing a regular
18:21
three times a week newsletter.
18:22
I had, you know, aria with me
18:22
when I was doing hotpots and she
18:24
wrote in addition to every week,
18:24
but so twice a week newsletter
18:27
it's, there's a lot of writing.
18:28
I think people, it doesn't sound
18:28
like a lot, James it's a lot.
18:31
and so yeah, now I'm doing
18:31
a little bit less writing,
18:35
really trying to focus on
18:35
finding some new stories, new
18:37
things to write about it's
18:37
free, free me up to really
18:40
explore different stories.
18:41
But yeah, it's definitely
18:41
a different environment.
18:43
Verges came through blog
18:43
world, you know, they're all
18:46
like I was a gadget blogger
18:46
at the verge for awhile.
18:48
So just the different
18:48
world, but it's exciting.
18:52  James
And you're on terminals.
18:55
I know nothing about Bloomberg
18:55
or what is this terminal that
18:58
you keep on talking about?
19:01  Ashley
So that's how Michael
19:01
Bloomberg made all his money.
19:03
What is the terminal sales?
19:04
It basically is like everything
19:04
you could ever want about
19:07
finance at your fingertips.
19:08
I can search kind of anything.
19:10
It's like almost like the
19:10
internet contained in itself.
19:12  James
if you could
19:12
give them one.
19:15  Ashley
Yeah.
19:15
it's weird.
19:15
It's like I have like
19:15
a little terminal, like
19:18
verification system, right?
19:20
It's almost gonna be PN or
19:20
something where I log in and
19:22
then I verify, and then on my
19:22
Mac book, I can get it, but.
19:26
It's like a software
19:26
program, basically.
19:27
You wouldn't think of it
19:27
as anything different.
19:29
but yeah, like all my email
19:29
lives in there, all my calendar,
19:33
we don't use Gmail, you know, we
19:33
have slack, but it's not a huge
19:37
slack culture is very different.
19:38
So yeah.
19:40
Moving, learning about
19:40
terminal commands.
19:45  James
Yeah.
19:45
So one of the
19:46  Sam
things I have observed
19:46
actually, between your previous
19:49
career and now is that your
19:49
scooping a lot more, is it, are
19:53
you getting, given the stories
19:53
or the, or you, do you have
19:57
more resources to get stories?
19:58
What is it?
19:58
Because clearly you are
19:58
doing a great job scooping
20:01
all these new stories.
20:03
how's that changed for you?
20:04  Ashley
it's always a hustle.
20:06
It's never easy.
20:08
but yeah, I I think that
20:08
Bloomberg really cares
20:10
about those scoops.
20:11
We want to be the first,
20:11
if we can, to most news.
20:14
And if we're not the
20:14
first we want to try to.
20:16
It as thoroughly in as
20:16
accurately and with as
20:18
much insight as we can.
20:20
So I would say, you know,
20:20
I'm constantly trying
20:23
to get more stories.
20:24
Never feel like I'm
20:24
doing enough, but, yeah,
20:26
the scoops definitely.
20:27
I don't know if it's kinda
20:27
the same as at the verge, you
20:29
know, just always trying to
20:29
find something to write about.
20:31
but I would say the focus
20:31
is definitely on that.
20:33  Sam
will you grow
20:33
the team around you?
20:35
Is the plan to grow a team
20:35
all around the podcast?
20:39  Ashley
I don't
20:39
think so right now.
20:41
You all, I think now I
20:41
know James knows my editor
20:43
Lucas, so he's been on the
20:43
podcast beat for a while now.
20:47
Like he's been writing
20:47
about for a long time, so
20:49
it's really me and him.
20:50
and then they brought me in
20:50
of course, to help break ups.
20:52
I'm also going to be covering
20:52
the music industry as well,
20:55
and this broader idea of
20:55
creators, which obviously can be
20:57
podcasters, video podcasts or.
20:59
Whoever makes money
20:59
on the internet.
21:02
Really?
21:02
so yeah, we have a team.
21:04
I don't think there's plans,
21:04
you know, necessarily build
21:06
out the podcast world, but we
21:06
definitely have a great media
21:09
coverage team and telecom team.
21:11  Sam
And given your, like
21:11
James, the mystic Meg view
21:14
of the world in podcasting,
21:14
what are you looking forward
21:18
to later in this year?
21:19
Is there anything you
21:19
think is going to change?
21:22  Ashley
I would say like the
21:22
big story I'm curious about
21:25
is obviously for the past few
21:25
years, we've been covering a lot
21:29
of the investments happening in
21:29
podcast, world and audio, world
21:32
startups, Spotify spending a
21:32
ton, Amazon spending a ton of.
21:37
The shooting star that was
21:37
Facebook for all of a year.
21:40
and all sorts of different
21:40
platforms, you know, saying
21:42
their interest in audio.
21:43
But now with this sort of
21:43
economic downturn that is
21:46
happening, I'm really interested
21:46
to see how these companies
21:49
treat the audio world.
21:51
And if this was more of a like
21:51
aspirational, this could be
21:54
our next thing, you know, let's
21:54
invest and see how it goes.
21:57
And now we're going to
21:57
see that fall by the
21:59
wayside, just because
21:59
it's like, money's tight.
22:01
We gotta watch our investments.
22:02
That's just what I'm curious
22:02
to see how it plays out.
22:04
I don't know if that's
22:04
what will happen.
22:06
I assume Spotify is here to
22:06
be here, but it really Amazon
22:09
as well, but I don't know if
22:09
any other companies are going
22:12
to necessarily keep doubling
22:12
down on any audio efforts.
22:16  Sam
I've got a bet as well.
22:17
The Hamline James,
22:19  James
what's your bad spot.
22:20
Spotlit.
22:22
Oh, yes.
22:22  Sam
I bought the
22:22
domain the other day.
22:24
So in case I now have spot
22:24
flicks, if you wanted Daniel,
22:29
you know where to find me now?
22:31  James
Yes.
22:32
His or rather his lawyers
22:32
know where to find you.
22:34
that's
22:35  Sam
fine.
22:35
They can pay me for it as well.
22:36
I don't mind where
22:36
the money comes from
22:41
looking at the share price
22:41
of both of them and the
22:43
amount of people that are
22:43
leaving both companies.
22:45
I think it could be any
22:45
time soon because, when you
22:47
look at Amazon, they've got
22:47
video audio books, they've
22:51
got the full shooting match.
22:52
You look at the same with apple.
22:54
They have the full
22:54
stack and it's Netflix.
22:57
And it's also, it's also, I'd
22:57
say, you know, Spotify who are
23:01
struggling basically on both
23:01
sides and the two together
23:05
as one actually would be
23:05
able to compete much better.
23:08
I think.
23:09
Yeah,
23:10  Ashley
totally.
23:10
I hear a lot.
23:11
I hear a lot of speculation
23:11
about that as well.
23:13
there's some Netflix blood
23:13
on the board of Spotify and
23:17
I believe their CFO used
23:17
to be at Netflix as well.
23:19
Their old CFO, he
23:19
spanned Netflix as well.
23:21
and obviously the
23:21
subscription model has
23:23
been Netflix influenced.
23:25
they're both in
23:25
the intention game.
23:26
I could see that
23:26
being interesting.
23:28
yeah.
23:29
And
23:29  James
you CA and you can
23:29
actually see, you know, I
23:31
find it interesting that you
23:31
can now turn off the video in
23:34
Netflix and just consume, some
23:34
of their content in audio form.
23:38
And similarly, you can
23:38
turn off, you, you can turn
23:41
on the video in Spotify.
23:42
So the actual products
23:42
are getting closer
23:45
and closer as well.
23:46
I find, I find the whole thing.
23:47
Fascinating.
23:48
So it'll be really interesting
23:48
to see quite what happens.
23:51
should we move on to I'm curious
23:51
about your, your take on who's
23:55
number one for podcasting,
23:55
Ashley, cause there's been
23:58
quite a lot of, of, new numbers
23:58
that have come out last week.
24:02
Edison, what should we
24:02
call the these days?
24:05
Edison podcast metrics, came
24:05
out and said that the number
24:08
one, in terms of publishers
24:08
was S XM media pod track came
24:13
out of course, and said that
24:13
the number one is iHeart media.
24:16
So, you then have, media
24:16
monitors owned by iHeart
24:20
media who say that the
24:20
number one is iHeart media,
24:22
surprisingly, and, Triton.
24:25
D Tritons figures have
24:25
just come out, today.
24:28
talking about, figures for,
24:28
for, you know, for, us, podcast
24:33
publishers and they say again,
24:33
the SSM media is number one.
24:37
How confusing do you think
24:37
all of this is iHeart?
24:40
Number one, it
24:40
isn't, aren't they?
24:42
Number one?
24:43
How confusing is it all for
24:43
the industry or frankly, should
24:47
I not be caring about this?
24:51  Ashley
I don't want to say
24:51
you shouldn't care about
24:53
things you're passionate about.
24:54
So,
24:55  James
but, okay.
24:57  Ashley
But it's just, if
24:57
you don't have every single
25:00
player and by player, like
25:00
network or show or on the
25:05
same platform submitting
25:05
the same type of data.
25:07
it's just really hard
25:07
to draw any conclusions.
25:09
You've pointed it out.
25:10
It's like, I, heart's
25:10
not on Triton and.
25:12
And PR is not on this
25:12
one or whatever it is.
25:14
And it's like, then
25:14
we can't, it's just,
25:16
you can't look at you.
25:17
Can't compare.
25:18
You just can't.
25:19
So I don't know.
25:21
I don't take too much stock in
25:21
it to be honest with you, but
25:24
it is a really nice marketing
25:24
line to be able to say your
25:26
number one podcast weekly.
25:28  James
Yeah.
25:29
It is a really nice marketing
25:29
line, but if marketing
25:31
lines aren't true, then
25:31
that's probably not a great,
25:34  Ashley
are number
25:34
one, asterix on.
25:40  James
Podtrac and they do that
25:40
and they do that very well.
25:42
Yeah.
25:42
They, you know, they
25:42
highlight that very well.
25:44
I find, I do find it interesting
25:44
that I, heart media isn't
25:47
measured by Triton who I own.
25:49
you would have thought
25:49
you have thought there was
25:52
something there, but now I
25:52
just find that sort of line,
25:55
you know, Really interesting.
25:57
And I'm just curious as
25:57
to what the, you know, as
26:00
to what the, the industry
26:00
thinks of, of, all of that.
26:04
we also got some new numbers
26:04
this week from the BBC from
26:08
BBC sounds, they're claiming
26:08
a record audience of 4
26:11
million users per week for
26:11
their app, here in the UK.
26:14
and I compared that 4 million is
26:14
a great thing for a podcast app.
26:18
I compare that to, their live
26:18
radio, which reaches 34 million.
26:22
so there's still quite some way
26:22
to go, but quite interesting,
26:25
seeing their total global
26:25
podcasts downloads across
26:29
the quarter was 288 million,
26:29
which makes the BBC about
26:33
the same size as Wondery.
26:34
I suspect that the Wondery
26:34
has rather fewer staff
26:38
see something tells me.
26:40
You know, obviously the BBC
26:40
makes rather a lot more stuff,
26:43
but, you know, interesting
26:43
seeing those figures because
26:47
of course, you know, the BBC
26:47
is putting quite a lot of
26:50
exclusive stuff onto there, you
26:50
know, onto their app as well.
26:54
Yeah.
26:55  Ashley
I've been very curious
26:55
about the BBC as someone who
26:57
obviously is in the U S and
26:57
I don't have this intimate
27:00
familiarity with the BBC, but
27:00
I've heard, there's similarly to
27:03
what's happening here with NPR
27:03
that I've written about a bit.
27:05
I've heard, there's
27:05
like a talent exit is
27:07
going on over there.
27:08
I don't know if I've just
27:08
been curious about that as
27:10
someone who, again, hasn't
27:10
been able to dive in.
27:14  James
Yeah, I think
27:14
it's very similar to the
27:15
talent Exodus that we're
27:15
seeing from NPR as well.
27:18
And a lot of it is due to the
27:18
sort of place that those large
27:21
organizations are to work out.
27:23
But I think also a lot of it is
27:23
just due to freedom of IP and
27:27
allowing yourself to be able
27:27
to, you know, take a show that,
27:32
you know, and we're seeing a
27:32
little bit of this into, in
27:34
terms of Gimlet, you know, and
27:34
Spotify and those sorts of,
27:36
those sorts of organizations as
27:36
well, where people wants to be
27:40
able to take away their ideas
27:40
and make something of them.
27:44
And clearly, you know,
27:44
especially if you're working
27:46
for somebody like the BBC
27:46
that, you know, I worked
27:49
there for, two years,
27:49
best two years of my life.
27:51
and, I know all of the rules
27:51
and the regulations that
27:55
they end up having to follow.
27:56
So I think from that
27:56
point of view, it's, you
27:58
know, it's hard work from
27:58
there, from their side.
28:01
And if you could make
28:01
your life a little bit
28:04
more easy creatively, then
28:04
perhaps that's, you know,
28:07
that's a plan, but yeah.
28:08
You know, I think that there's
28:08
an Exodus going on actually
28:11
in all large organizations,
28:11
because we are now seeing how
28:16
easy it is for you to be a
28:16
small company or a small one
28:19
person, you know, show and
28:19
be able to actually monetize
28:24
those quite successfully.
28:25
And I think, you know,
28:25
we're seeing more of that in
28:27
terms of a cast, and those
28:27
sorts of services and of
28:29
course, megaphone as well.
28:32
So, I think it's going
28:32
to be really interesting.
28:34  Sam
I think distribution is
28:34
the key, isn't the BBC NPR used
28:37
to be there only way to get
28:37
mass audience distribution.
28:39
Now you can do that
28:39
straight over the web
28:41
and direct to consumer.
28:44
So I think the other thing
28:44
that's interesting though,
28:47
it may be a thing to think
28:47
about if you're naming your
28:49
podcast, put your name in it.
28:51
Cause then the BBC
28:51
and NPR can't have it.
28:53
So top gear didn't
28:53
put their name in it.
28:56
And so the BBC kept that IP
28:56
and just put new presenters in.
28:59
Yes, mark Kermode and
28:59
Simon Mayo kept it.
29:02
Peter crouch kept it.
29:03
Emily Maitlis kept it, but
29:03
America, Carson newscast
29:06
stayed with the BBC.
29:07
So put your name
29:07
in your podcast.
29:09
Is the answer,
29:10  James
are you going to
29:10
be doing any podcasts
29:12
with, with Bloomberg
29:14  Ashley
it's possible.
29:15
They have, you know, a
29:15
podcast network, of course.
29:17
but.
29:19
Nothing right now, like nothing,
29:19
you know, on the agenda.
29:22
And I think I'd have to
29:22
probably, I'm just trying
29:24
to get settled first.
29:25
How are you still
29:26  James
getting your
29:26
feet under the table?
29:28
Make sure it says
29:28  Sam
actually Coleman
29:28
in the name, then
29:31  Ashley
I'm going to turn it
29:31
in and keep that going for
29:33  Sam
a minute.
29:33
James is replacing me very soon
29:35  James
and you're doing
29:35
a newsletter as well.
29:36
Aren't you?
29:36
is there, and that's to
29:36
launch later on this year.
29:39
is there a name for that yet?
29:42  Sam
Not
29:42  Ashley
yet.
29:43
no, really, please.
29:45
If you have puns, I accept them.
29:46
but yeah, no, not yet.
29:47
It's going to be a very
29:47
audio centric newsletter.
29:50
Like I said, I'm going
29:50
to be doing some music
29:52
industry coverage as well.
29:53
So I'm really hoping to be
29:53
able to cover both worlds.
29:56
I think that there's going
29:56
to be a great intersection
29:58
of the two spaces.
30:00
Ultimately, we're
30:00
just going to think of
30:01
everything is audio content.
30:02
and so I think what
30:02
happens in podcasts will
30:04
influence the music world.
30:05
So anyway, long
30:05
story short, yes.
30:08
I will be doing a newsletter.
30:09
It should be coming
30:09
up this summer.
30:11
Everybody, please subscribe.
30:14  James
We will put a link in
30:14
the show notes for those of
30:16
you listening, on demand as a
30:16
podcast, we'll be putting a link
30:20
to the show notes, for that.
30:22
But, yeah, no, I'm.
30:24
and is that going to be weekly?
30:25
Have you worked out the
30:25
general shape of that?
30:29  Ashley
The plan was weekly?
30:30
because it's still
30:30
a little bit out.
30:32
We haven't like revisited
30:32
an iron, not the details,
30:34
but as far as I know,
30:34
it will be weekly.
30:36
I'm still figuring out, you
30:36
know, where it slots into the
30:40
podcast newsletter ecosystem,
30:40
like your flatter, you know,
30:43
so trying to figure out what
30:43
I can bring to the table.
30:46
That's a little bit different
30:46
than that's already out there.
30:48  James
yeah, maybe, maybe a
30:48
great way for you, for people
30:50
to be able to follow your,
30:50
your stories without, you know,
30:53
paying for the whole Bloomberg
30:53
thing, which I guess is, you
30:56
know, one of those, one of
30:56
those things too, isn't it
31:00  Sam
now moving on, ah,
31:00
de script, which I like to
31:02
use for audio editing, have
31:02
announced coming out very
31:05
shortly, a first look at
31:05
something called new workflows
31:08
and it let you to editing
31:08
in D script with one click.
31:12
So some of our favorite
31:12
video streamers are there.
31:15
Riverside, our sponsors squad
31:15
cast are friends of the show
31:18
captivate, and one I've not
31:18
really used myself XtremIO,
31:22
but it looks like a D script
31:22
starting to branch out to get
31:26
itself integrated into the work.
31:28
Yeah,
31:28  James
it's all
31:28
really interesting.
31:30
I find it fascinating that
31:30
there are lots of different
31:32
companies now doing plugins
31:32
to other companies just
31:36
to make life, you know, an
31:36
awful lot easier, Riverside
31:38
did that plug into Spotify,
31:38
which was a very clever, you
31:43
know, a very clever move.
31:44
So, yeah, the more of
31:44
that, the better, as
31:46
far as I'm concerned, do
31:47  Sam
you, you don't, as you
31:47
don't have your podcast at the
31:49
moment nationally, but we, do
31:49
you edit it yourself or would
31:52
you be editing it yourself?
31:55  Ashley
I do not edit audio.
31:56
but I have used descript, in
31:56
the past, when I used to do
31:59
a podcast, we use descrip, a
31:59
few times and it's very cool.
32:02
I used it also when we were,
32:02
I did a podcast, I guess it
32:05
was last year now, with the
32:05
synthetic voices and we messed
32:07
with descript software to do
32:07
that, which was, you know,
32:10
creepy and fun and weird.
32:12
but yeah, for someone like
32:12
me who doesn't, you know,
32:14
get super granular editing
32:14
audio, obviously descript
32:17
is a tool that is designed.
32:19
For people like me who need
32:19
to just get it done quick and
32:21
dirty and try to get it over
32:21
with and sounding good enough.
32:27  James
Yeah.
32:27
and it's great.
32:28
It's one of the things that
32:28
I was showing off to the
32:29
radio industry, you know,
32:29
the thesis of the talk that
32:32
I gave at the radio days,
32:32
Europe conference last week was
32:36
basically, we've moved from a
32:36
world where, you have to have
32:39
massive, great, big studios
32:39
and very expensive equipment to
32:42
being able to do pretty well.
32:43
Anything you want on your own
32:43
laptop using consumer, consumer
32:46
technology and showing the
32:46
radio industry, some of the
32:51
new tools that podcasters get
32:51
to play with, and I showed a
32:54
bit of the scripts and, you
32:54
know, you could hear people's,
32:57
you know, gasps and, you
32:57
know, and them going, oh, wow.
33:01
So we don't have to
33:01
use pro tools and all
33:02
this kind of stuff.
33:03
It was really.
33:05
Yeah, it was really interesting.
33:07
And it, to me, I find it
33:07
fascinating the whole world of,
33:11
you know, professional audio.
33:12
If you like, in terms of the,
33:12
in terms of the heritage,
33:15
radio broadcasters, meeting
33:15
the world of podcasting,
33:18
I find it fascinating
33:18
seeing what happens there.
33:20
if you want to
33:21  Sam
know more, they're
33:21
doing a live webinar on
33:23  the 1st of June 9
00 AM.
33:25
Pacific St.
33:27
James.
33:27
Perfect timing.
33:29  James
Oh, excellent.
33:30
yes, that'll be in the middle
33:30
of the night for me, but,
33:32
yes, I'm sure it will be fine.
33:34  Sam
Now let's move
33:34
on to some quick news.
33:36
James, you wrote a piece
33:36
about, a pirated copy of
33:39
your podcast if you found it,
33:39
here's how you can report it.
33:42
Or James, can you report it
33:42
because there is a pirated
33:45
copy of Portland out there
33:46  James
on Spotify.
33:47
Yeah.
33:48
And, reading it, reading
33:48
this in the script is the
33:51
first that I know about it.
33:53
Thanks
33:53  Sam
for reading it early then.
33:54  James
Yeah.
33:56
I'm registered the coffee
33:56
shop a half an hour ago.
33:58
so yes, I, so I'm, I am
33:58
absolutely fascinated
34:01
in, finding out where
34:01
this pirated version of
34:04
the show is coming from.
34:06
What is confusing me and I
34:06
am literally at the moment.
34:09
I am literally at the moment
34:09
doing, hacking into it, to work
34:14
out where it's from weirdly
34:14
it's from Buzzsprout as well.
34:17
So it looks to be a duplicate,
34:17
not a pirate, but we'll
34:21
see what happens there, but
34:21
not a feature, but there's
34:24
a, but there's a story.
34:26
The will be a story in pod
34:26
news next week, or whole
34:30
orientating Bloomberg, later
34:30
on this week, talking about
34:33
what, talking about what some
34:33
podcast hosts are finding their
34:38
free trials being used for.
34:40
so, that's going to be, that's
34:40
going to be entertaining.
34:44
It will be on Monday,
34:44
because there's quite a lot
34:46
of tech information there,
34:46
but yeah, it turns out that
34:49
free trials are being used
34:49
for all kinds of things.
34:51
That was, I was
34:51
completely unaware of.
34:54
so it'll be fun to have a
34:54
look at that and, you know, a
34:57
pirated audio is part of that.
34:59
but there is also, you
34:59
know, other entertaining
35:02
things as well.
35:02
So yeah.
35:04  Ashley
Love a mystery.
35:05
What a little teaser.
35:07
Yeah.
35:07  James
Sorry about it.
35:09
And I, and you know, and I have
35:09
just also taken, the other story
35:12
that I'm hoping to break in the
35:12
next week out of the script.
35:16
Sorry.
35:17
It's somebody is, somebody
35:17
has already tweeted my mind
35:20
at all my little piece of fun
35:20
code, which we will talk about.
35:24
I'm sure.
35:25
Next week, once I've been
35:25
able to get a few statements
35:28
from, companies doing
35:28
some interesting things.
35:30  Sam
Now you want to first
35:30
look at a new company, a new.
35:34
Publishing analytics and growth
35:34
platform called cohost, the
35:36
launch coincides with the
35:36
release of co-hosts first annual
35:39
podcast or insight survey.
35:41
What's all who is co-host James.
35:43  James
Yeah, it's a new
35:43
podcast hosting company, which
35:45
has been produced by Quill
35:45
up in Toronto, in Canada.
35:49
And, you know, very cool.
35:50
It's interesting seeing, I
35:50
think, podcast hosts, beginning
35:53
to niche and beginning to
35:53
really focus on specific
35:56
things, and a co-host is very
35:56
much focusing on, you know,
36:00
growth as well as monetization.
36:03
and you know, really focusing
36:03
on that rather than being
36:05
a podcast host for all
36:05
things, to all people.
36:08
So interesting.
36:09
seeing that they also became
36:09
a gold supporter on pod
36:11
news, which was very kind of
36:11
them, but news.net/support,
36:15
a cast has done some
36:15
integration with pod castle.
36:18
It's another one of those
36:18
integrations, like the.
36:20
The script one that we were
36:20
talking about, earlier,
36:22
I really liked the idea.
36:23
it was an Australian thing, but
36:23
I really liked the idea of a
36:26
company called pod now, which
36:26
is, taking pop-up podcasts,
36:29
studios into conferences.
36:31
We see pop-up podcasts, studios
36:31
in podcasts conferences,
36:35
all the time, but they don't
36:35
normally, you know, they're
36:38
not normally there for the,
36:38
you know, for the, I dunno,
36:41
the toilet association, annual
36:41
conference or the, you know,
36:45
the beanbag, conferences.
36:46
So, you know, a really
36:46
interesting idea of actually
36:49
grabbing the idea, I think is if
36:49
you grab speakers as they come
36:53
off stage, then you can quickly
36:53
get a, an interview with them.
36:56
Turn that into a podcast,
36:56
and then it works.
36:59
It's not case it's
36:59
not catching up.
37:01
no,
37:01  Sam
I don't.
37:02
Like I could do it.
37:02
I like, I just taught
37:02
rubbish until there
37:05
was serious jealousy.
37:06
You could
37:06  James
do what you like.
37:07
I'm not as serious.
37:09
I got no, no
37:09
qualifications at all.
37:12
There's only one, there's
37:12
only one qualified
37:13
journalist on this show.
37:14
Don't look this way.
37:15
Yes.
37:17
What else are we
37:17
seeing this week?
37:19
Sam?
37:20  Sam
The one thing, and Ashley,
37:20
I wonder where the, what you
37:22
think, but, audiograms, you
37:22
know, should you use them?
37:25
Shouldn't you use them?
37:26
There's been reports that
37:26
they're a waste of time.
37:28
No one needs them.
37:29
and now we've got another
37:29
report saying, from Riverside
37:32
saying that audiograms
37:32
work five times, as well
37:34
as static images on social
37:34
media, where do you stand?
37:37
Are we just all pushing noise
37:37
out and no one's listening or is
37:41
there a good way to get podcast
37:41
discovery through audiograms?
37:46  Ashley
I'd be very curious.
37:47
What Riverside's methodology
37:47
is for finding out
37:51
whether audiograms work
37:51
well, but, I don't know.
37:53
if it really is, if it really is
37:53
a significant time suck and you,
37:57
you can measure your engagement,
37:57
I think, on your audio gram.
38:00
So if you're seeing no
38:00
engagement and you're putting
38:01
a time at time, ton of time in.
38:03
It seems to me, you should
38:03
probably give that up.
38:05
But at the same time, I
38:05
totally empathize with people
38:08
who is like, how else are
38:08
you going to put audio out
38:10
on Twitter or something
38:10
like that, which is fair.
38:12
And I do think there
38:12
probably need to be some
38:15
better solutions for it.
38:16
I know people were hoping
38:16
like Facebook ads to be
38:18
able to play audio books.
38:19
I don't think they do right now.
38:21
so I know things like
38:21
that where people are
38:22
hoping that could change.
38:24  James
Yeah.
38:24
and, you know, there's, and
38:24
there's companies like Adori
38:27
labs, which are looking at
38:27
automating the entire thing.
38:30
So being able to automatically
38:30
pull in, you know, images and
38:34
other, stuff to basically make
38:34
the video bit work, which is
38:38
really cool if you can do that.
38:39
So, yeah.
38:40
I, you know, interesting
38:40
seeing, you know, I think
38:43
it's certainly going to be a
38:43
thing in the future in terms
38:46
of YouTube, because obviously,
38:46
you know, you'll need.
38:49
The visuals, their signal
38:49
hill insights released some
38:53
data earlier on in the week
38:53
showing that people, really,
38:56
want to, you know, if there's
38:56
something on YouTube, then they
38:59
want video to be with that.
39:01
So they want it to
39:01
be a nice experience.
39:03
and, and, you know, I know
39:03
that, next week pod news will
39:06
be carrying some really good
39:06
data about how YouTube, how
39:10
popular YouTube is in terms of
39:10
podcasts, audiences as well.
39:14
So, yeah, so it'll
39:14
be fascinating to
39:16
have a look at two.
39:17
Okay.
39:17  Sam
Moving on one more thing.
39:18
Then a road is to release a
39:18
brand new road cast approach
39:23
to, they didn't say they
39:23
were going to do someone
39:26
by mistake, leaked it out.
39:28  James
Yes, a New Zealand
39:28
website, basically published
39:31
the whole thing, which was very
39:31
kind of them for six hours.
39:33
the graphics and images,
39:33
the graphics and images
39:35
on the spec sheet as well,
39:35
which was kind of them.
39:38
it's going to be properly
39:38
launched next week road, of
39:40
course, being an Australian
39:40
company, and, very good to,
39:43
Michael Sterling's Sterling
39:43
clear audio was the, blog
39:46
that, leaked all of that.
39:48
it looks great.
39:49
It looks, you know, you're using
39:49
a road Casta, in front of us
39:52
right now, and I'm sure that,
39:52
the new version is going to be
39:54
even smarter and even cooler.
39:56
So really nice to end up.
39:57
Yeah, now it
39:58  Sam
will eat.
39:59
One of the big things
39:59
is going to allow us to
40:00
do is to put two laptops
40:00
into the same road mixer.
40:03
and you can also do guitar
40:03
and, external mix as well,
40:07  James
which is quite nice.
40:08
10 minutes left.
40:09
Let's talk people, lots of
40:09
move, lots of moves at Spotify.
40:13
Ashley we've seen, changes
40:13
of, senior management, Michael
40:16
Miniato leaving, which I think
40:16
was one of your many scoops,
40:20
max Cutler being, promoted.
40:22
there are OES bill Simmons,
40:22
being promoted to Matt
40:26
Leiber going, folks from
40:26
reply, all going as well.
40:30
What's going on over there.
40:37
Is it as simple, is it as
40:37
simple as, it's a three and a
40:41
half years since given it was
40:41
bought or whatever that is.
40:43
And so therefore it's
40:43
people's contracts.
40:46  Ashley
Yeah.
40:47
I think oftentimes founders
40:47
tend to leave the companies
40:50
once their options vest or
40:50
whatever their contract expires.
40:53
So, you know, I it's always
40:53
tricky because on one hand
40:57
you're like, all these
40:57
people are leaving at once.
40:59
And Courtney hall also left
40:59
that one a bit more striking
41:04
only because he didn't come
41:04
through an acquisition.
41:06
He was hired.
41:06
He was one of the
41:06
original podcast strategy
41:09
architects over there.
41:10
So.
41:12
Yeah, I think there's clearly
41:12
some kind of rethinking around
41:16
how they're structuring things.
41:17
They obviously shut down studio
41:17
for, I think it was in December
41:20
or January of this year.
41:22
and so clearly they're
41:22
reorganizing, rethinking,
41:24
maybe want the shows they
41:24
put effort into and how
41:27
they work with partners.
41:28
and you know, James, you've
41:28
written about this quite a
41:30
bit, like given that many
41:30
of their partner shows the
41:32
splashy announcements haven't
41:32
really come to fruition.
41:36
You know, I think we can fill
41:36
in the blanks there as to maybe
41:39
they do need to rethink how
41:39
they work with these partners.
41:42  James
Yeah, I think it's going
41:42
to be interesting watching.
41:44
I just look into this and
41:44
go, there are so many people,
41:48
there are so many people there.
41:50
and, yeah, I'm surprised at
41:50
how many people are, you know,
41:53
working on that sort of thing.
41:55
So, maybe it's just a case of
41:55
actually, thinning the amount
41:58
of management folk, you know,
41:58
at there, if we are, indeed at
42:03
the start of a recession and the
42:03
start of, you know, some, you
42:06
know, economic issues, one of
42:06
the first things to go in terms
42:09
of that is advertising anyway.
42:10
So, you know, perhaps
42:10
there's a little bit of
42:13
planning, you know, on the.
42:15
Again, maybe it's just a
42:15
case of, you know, it's, it's
42:19
a, you know, the end of, of
42:19
somebody's contract time.
42:22
Yeah.
42:22  Sam
Amazon seems
42:22
to be at it as well.
42:24
So Amazon's director of podcast
42:24
announced he left the company to
42:27
start his own stealth company.
42:30
Todd Pringle.
42:30
Who's been with Amazon podcast
42:30
operations since the start.
42:34
So yeah, that was an
42:34
Ashley scoop as well, by
42:36
the way, just give her the
42:36
credit for that as well.
42:38  James
So we may as well,
42:38
we may as well have a button
42:42
saying another, actually
42:42
another actually comments.
42:45  Ashley
th the verge had
42:45
the McDonald's scoop.
42:47
And then, yeah, I read
42:47
about LIBOR leaving.
42:49  James
so, so what, Amazon
42:49
is fascinating because
42:51
you've got Wondery, which
42:51
you know, is doing great
42:54
guns by all accounts.
42:56
but Amazon doesn't seem to
42:56
be moving the needle in terms
42:58
of a podcast destination.
43:01
we're not necessarily seeing
43:01
Wondery promote Wondery plus in
43:05
the Amazon music podcast player.
43:09
You know what I mean?
43:09
It's all.
43:10
do you see Amazon still
43:10
wanting to be a destination
43:14
in terms of an app?
43:16
You know,
43:17  Ashley
I honestly
43:17
am not totally sure.
43:19
Like, it was very clear that
43:19
Spotify has ambitions both to
43:22
be a place where people like,
43:22
basically they want everyone to
43:24
consume audio on their platform.
43:26
Amazon, you know, is doing
43:26
pretty well regardless.
43:30
So I almost wonder if it's more
43:30
about the advertising business.
43:34
I'm pretty sure insider wrote
43:34
a story the other day about
43:36
how their advertising business.
43:38
Been great for them.
43:39
and I can imagine they see
43:39
podcasting slash audio in
43:42
general, just as a really
43:42
rich place to do that.
43:44
I've been surprised at how
43:44
little I've heard about
43:48
like art 19 as an example.
43:50
It doesn't really, I don't
43:50
really hear people talk about
43:52
it as much, whereas like
43:52
Spotify is constantly pushing
43:54
megaphone and also anchor.
43:56
so yeah, I'm not totally
43:56
sure what their like big,
43:59
broad thinking is, but
43:59
it seems like, you know,
44:01
they're pretty interested in
44:01
locking up those exclusive.
44:04
To do ad sales and
44:04
represent them.
44:06  James
no, it's really, it
44:06
will be really interesting
44:07
to see what goes on there.
44:10
One other person, that we
44:10
should mention is, Elena
44:12
Fernandez Collins, that they're
44:12
well-known podcast critic.
44:15
They've written about,
44:15
podcasting, the host podcasting
44:18
than are working at simple cast.
44:20
so many congratulations, there.
44:22
what else should we do Sam?
44:24  Sam
Very quickly.
44:25
Just one big announcement
44:25
in tech corner.
44:26
the new
44:30  James
Oh, yes, that's right.
44:31
Yes.
44:32
Lots of work in terms of,
44:32
making sure that, you know,
44:35
if you're using a new podcast
44:35
app, you know, that, that your
44:38
favorite podcast is going live.
44:40
we will have, have saddened,
44:40
Adam and Dave by not, using that
44:44
for this, live experience, but,
44:44
who knows what we might, I'm
44:47  Sam
trying to still
44:47
work out how to use it.
44:48
So, yeah, Adam and Dave, come
44:48
on and let me know, please.
44:51
okay.
44:52
we should wrap up there
44:52
very quickly, event corner.
44:55
next week, James, you are
44:55
here for one reason, your
44:58
apart from your Swedish visit,
44:58
you're here for something else.
45:00  James
Yes.
45:01
So I'm here for the podcast show
45:01
2022, which starts on Wednesday.
45:05
there's two full days of a,
45:05
of a business conference.
45:09
there's also a week's
45:09
worth of live shows as
45:10
well, which I think is a
45:10
great plan to do around.
45:13
Podcast, a conference to
45:13
actually get, you know,
45:16
it surprises me when you
45:16
go to these large podcast
45:19
conferences, how little
45:19
talent there is there.
45:21
I don't mean how little
45:21
talent, in terms of people.
45:24
how little podcasts
45:24
are being made there.
45:26
That's what I really mean to
45:26
say, Doug help, digs very hard.
45:29
so, yeah, so that's great
45:29
to end up seeing, so, yeah,
45:32
so I'm hoping to catch a
45:32
few shows there, but that's
45:35
going to be next week.
45:37
You have, you, you have
45:37
done the slightly foolish
45:40
thing of, booking a very
45:40
small pub for a drinks, and
45:44
then publishing on Twitter.
45:48  Sam
I'm having a
45:48
party at the house.
45:49
Here's it?
45:50
Here's the announcement
45:50
on Facebook?
45:51
No one else will turn up.
45:52
Honestly, dad, here's the
45:54  James
address.
45:54
So yeah.
45:55
So good luck with that,
45:55
but I'm looking forward
45:56
to that on a Tuesday.
45:57
That should be fun.
45:58  Sam
Yeah.
45:58  Tuesday evening 6
00 PM.
45:59
If you're in Belgravia, 17th
45:59
century, Which is haunted.
46:03
It's the old Grenadier guards
46:05  James
officer club.
46:06
See what you're missing.
46:07
Ashley.
46:07
See what you're missing?
46:09  Ashley
That sounds cool.
46:12  James
Yeah,
46:13  Sam
it's okay.
46:14
I'll be there.
46:14  James
yeah, you could be
46:14
working on, Bloomberg has
46:16
some very posh offices in the
46:16
city, so you should be working
46:19
out or there for this week.
46:20
and of course, podcast
46:20
movement coming up in
46:22
Dallas, in Texas in, August.
46:24
I really must have
46:24
organized my, tickets for
46:26  Sam
that.
46:26
Yeah.
46:26
And one other event that we
46:26
want to publicize Pinterest has
46:29
been announced as the lead part
46:29
of the international women's
46:32
podcast festival here in London.
46:34
the event is Saturday,
46:34
June the 18th, James.
46:37
You've been very
46:37
kindly offering,
46:39  James
some discounts.
46:39
Yeah.
46:40
It's not me kindly
46:40
offering them.
46:41
it's the organizers, but yes,
46:41
if you are outside the UK and
46:44
you just want a virtual ticket,
46:44
then there's money off that.
46:46
And there's also virtual.
46:47
and then there's also
46:47
in-person tickets for
46:49
the UK, folk as well.
46:50
You'll find all the details
46:50
in our show notes and the pod
46:54
news newsletter at pod news.
46:55  Sam
James.
46:55
Now, what's been happening
46:55
for you in Portland?
46:59  James
yes, I've been, I tell
46:59
you one thing I did do, I took
47:02
the seventh longest commercial
47:02
flight to get here from Dom.
47:07
all the way to London.
47:08
and if you're interested in
47:08
that, then, you should, yeah,
47:11
go back through my Twitter or
47:11
something and find the seventh
47:14
law find my trip report.
47:16
Cause I rather tediously
47:16
I'm one of these people
47:18
that writes, to keep myself
47:18
sane on long journeys.
47:21
and just write a log of what
47:21
people just watch films, James.
47:24
Yeah, I know.
47:25
I don't
47:26  Sam
drink
47:27  James
alcohol.
47:28
Yeah.
47:28
Oh, I know I do that.
47:29
Do both.
47:30
so that was fun.
47:31
went to see my family
47:31
in Wales in Welsh Wales,
47:33
which was also fun.
47:35
trying desperately to
47:35
drive a stick shift car.
47:37
And the first time, for the
47:37
first time in six years,
47:40
it's not going very well.
47:41
so I got here.
47:43
Yeah, I got, might not get back.
47:44
I got here.
47:45
It's the funny sort of
47:45
smell of, of burning
47:47
when you're in reverse.
47:48
That slightly concerns me.
47:50
what's happening for you
47:50
this week in Portland, Sam?
47:52
the last
47:52  Sam
week I was doing something
47:52
called podcasts in the park.
47:55
it was an events.
47:56
So, local chefs, Michelin chefs,
47:56
Tom carriage, Michelle brew.
48:00
I interviewed them.
48:01
I interviewed the remaining
48:01
sister sledge sister that
48:04
was quite entertaining.
48:06
She had her daughters
48:06
with her onstage.
48:07
So they're called the
48:07
sister sledge now, but
48:09
it's only one sister.
48:11
The other two that
48:11
are what they're done.
48:12
Didn't ask her to schedule.
48:15  James
Sister daughter sledge.
48:17
Yeah.
48:18  Sam
Yeah.
48:18
Rag and bone man and McFly.
48:19
So that was a bit of fun.
48:21
Last week.
48:21
I will be with you
48:21
at the podcast show.
48:25
I'm on stage for so many
48:25
talking about, the growing love
48:29
affair between podcasts, film,
48:29
and TV, and actually Sony.
48:33
I'm curious, we never
48:33
talk about them.
48:34
We talk about Amazon,
48:34
we've talked about apple.
48:36
We talk about Spotify,
48:36
but Sony are investing
48:38
heavily into podcasting.
48:40
So it'd be interesting to
48:40
see what they have to say.
48:42  James
Yeah, most definitely.
48:43
And, with their acquisition of
48:43
something else, you know, that's
48:46
a big UK powerhouse that w
48:46
which has gone in there as well.
48:49
so yeah, absolutely.
48:50
I will also be onstage
48:50
at the podcast show.
48:52
I'm doing a session about
48:52
monetization, with a
48:55
bunch of people from Sony.
48:57
I'm doing a session about.
48:59
Tenderfoot TV, which will
48:59
be really interesting.
49:01
I know very little about tend
49:01
to foot TV and, by Wednesday
49:04
I'll know a lot more because
49:04
I had to read up about it in
49:09
order to ask some sensible
49:09
questions of, Donald Albright.
49:12
And, and I'm also talking
49:12
about where the future
49:15
of podcasting is going.
49:16
So we'll, we'll
49:16
see how that goes.
49:18  Sam
What's happening
49:18
for you, Ashley?
49:19
What's coming up.
49:21
What's
49:22  Ashley
coming up.
49:23
Wow.
49:23
I don't want to give away
49:23
too much of what I'm working
49:25  Sam
on.
49:27
What are you like?
49:30  Ashley
Hey James, not mine.
49:31
Aren't in the show notes, so
49:31
I don't have to read them.
49:36
It's going to be 90 degrees
49:36
in New York tomorrow.
49:38
Supposedly I don't know
49:38
what that is in Celsius.
49:40
I can't help you,
49:40
but I'm very warm.
49:42
Yeah.
49:43
It was very warm.
49:44
So I might try to make
49:44
my way to the beach.
49:46
We'll
49:46  Sam
see.
49:47
Oh,
49:47  James
very nice.
49:48
32 Celsius.
49:49
For those of you playing
49:49
along it to home.
49:51
we're off for a crafty tug now.
49:52
Aren't we?
49:53
Yes.
49:53
W which is a, which
49:53
is Sam's, Sam's, boat
49:57
where he serves beer.
49:58
Yup.
49:59  Sam
Yup.
50:00
We
50:00  Ashley
have a ton.
50:01
Okay.
50:01
I'm really coming out to
50:01
London next year because
50:04
I want that boat invite.
50:05
I want the 17th
50:05
century pub invite.
50:08
Ah,
50:08  Sam
yeah.
50:08
And now I'm going to show you
50:08
when the other ones we've got
50:10
eight double Decker buses.
50:12
this'll be
50:12  James
great.
50:13
this is a great
50:13  Sam
podcast.
50:15
That's for those who can't
50:15
see, that's the inside
50:17
of the double Decker.
50:19
So we've got a studio.
50:20  James
It looks like London.
50:23
Excellent.
50:24
we will, yes.
50:25
come next year for podcast
50:25
show 20, 23, if they haven't
50:29
gone bust and she podcasts.
50:30
No, absolutely.
50:31
she, podcasts will be good.
50:32
do you have a date for that?
50:33  Sam
No, but I have a new venue.
50:37  James
And we're aligned
50:37
on that bombshell.
50:38
that's it for this week, if
50:38
you like pipeline, tell others
50:41
to visit, tell your friends on
50:41
Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, Tik
50:44
TOK, or, wherever and wherever
50:47  Sam
you can also email
50:47
comments at Podland dot noodle.
50:50
Find all of our previous
50:50
shows and the interviews
50:52
at the pod landowner news.
50:53  James
if you want daily
50:53
news, you should get pod news.
50:55
The newsletter is free
50:55
at pod news dot nets.
50:57
The podcasts can be found
50:57
in your podcast app and
50:59
all the stories we've
50:59
discussed on pod land today
51:01
are in the show notes.
51:02
We use chapters and transcripts
51:02
too, and I should also point
51:04
out obviously, if you want to
51:04
learn more about what Ashley is
51:08
doing, then you should be going
51:08
to have a look on, Bloomberg.
51:12
is there a simple URL,
51:12
Ashley that we should
51:14
be pointing people to?
51:16  Ashley
I feel like anytime
51:16
you're telling people to go
51:18
to a URL, it's never going
51:18
to be simple, follow me on
51:21
Twitter at Ashley R Carmen.
51:23
I tweet all my stories.
51:24
So you'll
51:25  Sam
find it there.
51:26
I thought just asked
51:26
me the question.
51:27
Mostly the all star.
51:29  Ashley
Oh, my middle
51:29
initial, unfortunately,
51:32
Ashley Carmen at Salesforce.
51:34
If she has listened to
51:34
this podcast, please
51:36
give me the handle off.
51:38
Don't use it.
51:39
I pretty sure people
51:39
have followed you because
51:41
they think you're me.
51:42
Like let's just.
51:43  James
I once, I want
51:43
a mess, a lovely woman.
51:46
This was about 15, 20 years
51:46
ago, in Dublin, in Ireland.
51:50
And she was absolutely, you
51:50
know, I was quite, quite
51:53
to smitten and she contacts
51:53
James Cridland on Facebook.
51:57
and everything goes really
51:57
quiet for about two weeks.
52:00
and I think, oh, that's a shame.
52:02
Cause you know, cause she was
52:02
quite fun and it turns out
52:05
that she was talking to James
52:05
crit and the student from
52:07
Bristol, you bastard, James
52:07
critical student from Bristol.
52:12
That's all I could say.
52:13
Not still forgotten I'm
52:13
music is from ignites.
52:17
Jingles were hosted and
52:17
sponsored by good friends
52:19
Buzzsprout and squad cars
52:19
to, and until next week,
52:22
keep listening and thank you
52:24  Sam