Unstoppable Mindset

Episode Summary

Thanks for reading these notes and listening to Unstoppable Mindset. Might you happen to be a parent? Better yet, might you be the parent of a child with a disability? How about two children with what we call disabilities? I want you to meet this week Mary Elizabeth Jackson who is the mother of three children two of which are on the Autism spectrum. You get to hear in this episode about a mother who confronted her own challenges and who not only worked through learning how to best support two children diagnosed as autistic, but also who has become a staunch advocate for these and other children. Mary also is a successfully published author and, among other honors, has been a #1 Amazon bestselling writer. You get to meet this week someone who is quite open about what she has experienced in life. She also has much advice to give us and lots of concepts to discuss and teach. I am sure you are going to come away from this episode of Unstoppable Mindset seeing even more than usual how you too can learn to be unstoppable and inspired by challenges rather than quitting. Life really is an adventure. Come listen and become a part of Mary Jackson’s journey. Thanks for listening and I hope you will let me know your thoughts about our episode and the Unstoppable Mindset podcast by emailing me at michaelhi@accessibe.com.

About the Guest:

Mary Elizabeth Jackson is a two-time #1Amazon Bestselling author in the collaborative anthologies The Fearless Entrepreneurs, and International Best Seller Invisible No More, Invincible Forever More (Aug 2021). Jackson is also the 2017 Gold Maxy award-winning author of the children’s book series Perfectly Precious Poohlicious and Poohlicious Look at Me, (Tuscany Bay Books), Poohlicious Oh the Wonder of Me, (Tuscany Bay Books June 2021). Cheers from Heaven, a mid-grade reader releases October 2021, (Tuscany Bay Books), with co-writer Thornton Cline. Jackson focuses on writing empowering books for kids. Jackson is also a ghostwriter, collaborator, songwriter, educator, and the voice for the Sports2Gether app.

Mrs. Jackson is a special needs advocate and an Ambassador Advocate for AutismTn. Jackson is also an advisor for the Global for profit Billion-Strong. She co- founded and co- hosts Writers Corner Live TV and Special Needs TV Shows that air on Amazon Live, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and YouTube. Writers Corner Live features author interviews from New York Times best sellers, International and National best sellers to multi award winning authors, and all things in the writing world. Special Needs TV features interviews and resources for parents, families, and caregivers. Jackson is also working on an edutainment YouTube channel with her son featuring children’s book reviews and family fun and education for all children.

Mrs. Jackson is a very busy mom, wife, empath, and intuitive. She loves nature, being creative, anything funny, and inspiring others to believe in themselves to go from where they are to their full potential. She lives with her hubby, three kids, and dog in the Nashville area. -Cherish every moment of life. You can find her books and other content at www.mary@maryejackson.com

About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.

Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.

https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/

accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/

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Transcription Notes

UM Intro/Outro  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i  capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.

Michael Hingson  01:13 Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Again, it is time for another episode of unstoppable mindset. We're inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Today, we get to talk with another author and this person Mary Elizabeth Jackson is a two time Amazon Best Seller number one best seller as I recall. And in reading her bio, she's got lots of interesting things to talk about. Definitely proving she's unstoppable. But she's also helping other people become unstoppable. And I don't mean that in just a hokey, wordy kind of thing. And you'll see that as we go forward. So Mary, welcome to unstoppable mindset.

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  01:59 Hi, thank you, Michael, for having me. I'm so excited to be here today.

Michael Hingson  02:04 Well, it's our pleasure to to have you tell me a little bit about you and where you where you started and came from and all that kind of stuff. And we'll go from there.

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  02:14 Okay, well, I am from Orlando, Florida, actually. And I live in Tennessee now. And I am a mother of three children. Two of my children are on the spectrum. I am, like you said an author, I have been in now just as of March 29, three collaborative anthologies for adults, I have a award winning children's series called foolishness. And our newly really recently released middle grade reader for kids. It's an anti bullying story that's about how Sue includes redemption. And it's called tears from heaven. And, you know, I love writing. From the viewpoint, when I write for children, I love reading from the viewpoint of a child in in, in educating them as well as empowering them. So I like to just do more than storytelling. But those were the first the series I have was kind of birth after my late life son was born and had a lot of challenges. And, you know, I had no idea book series was coming after he was born. And it really changed my life in so many ways. And I'm so grateful for it. I've been an advocate for a long time because my middle daughter was diagnosed 16 and a half years ago. And so I've been doing this a very long time

Michael Hingson  03:37 and was diagnosed with autism. Yes, she

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  03:39 she had she was nonverbal. So language delay, speech delay, developmentally delayed and nos, which is not other other specified any, you know, medical, there's not a specific category for what it was was going on with her. She's on the, uh, you know, back then it was called Asperger's. Now, it's kind of lumped into that, you know, autism spectrum disorder. And then she said that that's where it was introduced to that whole world. I actually just was writing a query article about it yesterday, and this morning, finishing it up, and just talking about that journey as a parent, the glimpse into the life of having a child with challenges when your first child meets all their milestones. And then you have your second child does not and you don't know what's happening. And so all of that's brand new, it was for me, and you know, I hope to help educate others so they don't feel like lost and alone. You know, I did that journey twice because my youngest son had his own set of challenges coming into this world and I found myself lost it alone again, and just not knowing what to do and the frustrations and, you know, the questions of Was it my fault? You know, did I Do Something was it medication or the environment or food or genetics or, you know, there's any number of things that can add up to what's happening with the child. And I also co founded and co host two shows that are online, and one is called writer's corner live TV. And that is, it features everything about authors in that whole in the whole writing world. And that we've been doing it for about three and a half years. And then I have special needs TV as well. And we stream out through Facebook and LinkedIn and Twitter and YouTube and Amazon live. So you know, those are my passions. I,

Michael Hingson  05:40 you also you also voice an app, don't you?

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  05:42 I do is called the sport together app. Yes. And it is here in the States. It began in Denmark and Sweden and Norway over there. It's actually it's funny. It's, it's a friend of mine from high school who is with the company that created the app. And so he called me and said, Hey, would you be the voice on this app for us? And I was like, Sure.

Michael Hingson  06:05 What is it? What does the app do?

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  06:10 what the app does is it brings folks together to exercise out in public, you have meetups, you have challenges, you have gatherings, you can teach classes on there, you can pose challenges to other folks. So it's a pretty cool app. So it will they're gonna grow it here more in the States. So it's they're trying to create it to be global.

Michael Hingson  06:31 Is it? Is it an iPhone app and Android app or both?

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  06:35 I think it's both. I know, it's an iPhone app, but I'm not sure if it's gone to Android yet, you know, but I need to ask him that. I think that it is on Android now. But you know,

Michael Hingson  06:47 and you probably should say or tell people how to spell it? Oh, yes. That's very clever.

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  06:54 It is clever. So it's a capital S. So p o r t s and then the number two and then a capital G e t h e r so sports together? And it is it is catchy, isn't it? But yeah, if you don't know how to spell it, you're probably not going to find it. So

Michael Hingson  07:13 well, you clearly advocate advocating? Why do you do that? As opposed to you're a mom, you've got kids that keeps you busy. But why did you choose to become an advocate and go down that road as well?

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  07:30 That's a good question. Well, I you know, when a mother becomes pregnant, she actually becomes an advocate than in that moment, right? Because then she has to start caring for that child inside her and be careful what she eats, and what she drinks and taking care of herself, so that the baby can, you know, come into this world and be as healthy as it can be. But when you have a child who has needs, you really don't have much of a choice, but to become their voice and to become their advocate. And, you know, at first I felt so lost. And I, I felt so overwhelmed. I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know where to go, who to turn to. And I actually ended up having I really turn to education and research for myself. That is what helped me feel more empowered. And I have done that and still do that. And I teach that I talk to parents about that, you know, and my middle daughter had a very traumatic experience in pre K kindergarten. And it was so traumatic that it it changed all of our lives in our family. And it changed my direction as an advocate, because then I went to Capitol Hill here in Nashville, Tennessee, and I spoke to senators and state representatives and pursued changing laws, to better the classroom environment for children who are nonverbal and have special needs and disabilities. And I'm still working on those things. Actually, this summer, I'm going to be working on some legislation for next year. And I it really just took hold of my life and became a passion of mine to make sure that things are the best they can be for kids and to educate families. After my son was born. I then went to Vanderbilt and got certified as a as an advocate so that I can help families in schools in going to make sure their children get the right services and help them understand more of what's happening for them and how to be empowered themselves on that journey. Because it takes you from feeling so helpless and hopeless and a victim even to being more of a Victor and going okay, I can see a light at the end of the tunnel. And when we're empowered as parents that only trickles down to our child to be more empowered. So they know hey, I can do this. You know I can Concord this, I can try this, you know?

Michael Hingson  10:03 Well, what what if you can talk about it? What happened to your daughter?

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  10:08 Um, well, I've never I've not written about it yet. It was it was really difficult, but she was in a classroom and, and along with other children, I can't talk for any other family. But I was mentally, emotionally physically and verbally abused for about eight months that we did not know about it. And I received a phone call from the police department letting me know what had happened. And that's pretty traumatizing for a parent. Yeah.

Michael Hingson  10:37 So when I was in second grade, I had a teacher who turned out to be one of my favorite teachers. But partway through the school year, they decided to transfer me into another class because they said, Well, we have a teacher that we think would be better for Mike because she knows Braille. And I had learned braille in kindergarten, but forgotten. And so anytime we could find a way to reintroduce me to Braille, it was a helpful thing. And because originally when I, when we moved to California, they didn't have any braille materials or anyone to help with that, well, we put me in this class. This teacher liked to use corporal punishment to make kids behave, and she would hit people with rulers. And sometimes it was pretty arbitrary. So I wasn't necessarily able to interact by reading things out loud, because I didn't have the materials. And as it turns out, she didn't know braille. So I was in that class a month when it was discovered that keeping me there was not a very healthy thing to do. I don't know what happened to that teacher. But I ended up going back to Mrs. Hill's class, which, as I said, she was one of my favorite teachers in elementary school. But I understand the kind of thing that you're dealing with. And hearing about that must have been quite a shock and caused a lot of stress, distress and trauma in all your lives.

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  12:06 Yeah, it's hard to describe if you've never been through it, it is not something you because there were we had a total of six or seven families, we actually pursued legal over it because of the trauma and damage that was caused to the children. You know, I learned a lot about the law. And there was a lot of disappointment. The sad thing is, when a child experiences abuse, no matter where it comes from, it can get stuck in the brain of a child, it doesn't matter what age you are, but being a child who can't reason through things, the healing for that is much more difficult. And what I was told by the forensic psychologists when my daughter was five was that she will be more likely to have heart disease, cancer and die at a young age and have lots of mental issues from this mental emotional. And that's not something a parent ever wants to hear about their child. So our life for a long time at that point was filled with lots of therapies. More than just her speech and OT now we've added psychological, mental, emotional therapies into all of this, you know, for me, yeah. It was tough to talk about that. She's one of my heroes.

Michael Hingson  13:33 So were you able to discern that something was different when it was happening? Or was she just not able to communicate well enough for you to understand that there was something amiss, as it were,

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  13:44 both both happened? And the questions that the questions I had, were always, there was always an answer for them. You know what I mean, it's that coverage that happens. And it was near the end, when you know, you have a fully potty trained child who's starting to wet the bed and wet at nap time. It was like, right when all that happened, then we went on break and got the call about what had been going on. And you know it when you get a call from the police department telling you what's been happening to your child, that's not something that you've made up. That is legit information coming through. And you know, when you have to have Child Services, come to your home and interview your child who won't even say anything except whisper in the person's ear, and because of the fear based upon her. What do you do? I mean, it's, it's so life changing that your parenting style changes, your trust in the world and other humans change. I mean, it embarks upon so many different facets of life. You know, I I lost all hope and me and my relationship with God for a period of time we just was gone, because I just couldn't imagine how somebody would be allowed to do this and get away with it in a public school system. And, you know, it was the birth of my son later in life, many years later that healed and brought our I think that he healed our family a lot. But you know, when you're going through something like that, and you can't discuss anything, you can't even really go to therapy. It's like a family therapy to help. Because all of that can be brought into the court system, you know, trial, you're pretty much on an island by yourself. And and that's, that's one of the that's one of those things, I think you look back in life and go, What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Right? Yes. So it ended up empowering me in many ways, and has been a lot of the drive forward for the work that I do.

Michael Hingson  16:05 So how old is your daughter now? She's 18. And she's doing okay,

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  16:12 she is doing fantastic for what she's been through. And part of that is, you know, the help that we got her and as a family staying strong and connected and continuing in life, not letting that define who we were as a family, not letting that be the definition of her and her life, and keep pushing forward and pushing forward and pushing forward. And, you know, I never, I never said you can't do this, or you can't try that. Or you, you know, she she now is a five time published illustrator. You know, she's going to go to college next year for animation and filmmaking. And that has been her avenue for channeling what she went through, it's been a godsend. And I would say for any child out there, give them a channel to express themselves. However, that is, as long as I sit, you know, it's legal, of course, right? You don't want to try and keep paint cans at somebody's house, you know, but I mean, as long as it's, it's healthy, and, you know, kids need exercise for their brain and their physical body. And they need their, they need their academics, they need their, they also need their art, they need creativity, we are creative humans. And we are meant to express that. And so giving a person that channel can be a lifesaver, actually, I believe?

Michael Hingson  17:40 Well, I guess we'll just have to have her on the podcast, and she can talk about you.

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  17:44 Oh, she has her. She has her triggers. But you know, we've learned there there are coping skills for things, you know, of course, it won't. It won't define her life. You know, she she's very, she's forgiving. She's much more forgiving about this situation than I have ever been able to do. Because there's a lesson right there. Yeah, that's why I say she's my she's one of my heroes, for sure. But you know, as a parent, you want to protect your child. And of course, nobody should touch my child in any way that is hurtful or inappropriate. But nobody should ever do it to anyone in this world ever. You know, it just should be something that I wish it could be expelled from the world.

Michael Hingson  18:31 Well, out of all of that did were there. Did the legal system do something about what happened to her?

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  18:38 They did but not enough. It was not enough. So and that that's where those loopholes come in those legal loopholes that people get off on technicalities, and things like that. So, you know, there was not a punishment fit the crime in this incident, unfortunately. And, you know, I was I was interviewed during that period of time, near the end of when we had gone to court finally, I was interviewed by a subcommittee in Washington, actually, there was a senator that was leaving a congressman, excuse me, he was leaving. And he was doing some legislation on restraint and isolation. And they had gone across the country looking for cases to interview people. And what they were finding is that there were cases all across our country where abuse was happening to children. And when the when the parents went up against the school systems and stuff, they were all losing. Right. And it was just shocking to them. And I remember spending about two hours on a phone interview all about the situation. And it was very enlightening to know and sad to hear how much it was happening across our country and it still is, you know, and we're rectification the correct process. So it is not it, you know, it wasn't nothing's can be different now because this was back in, you know, it happened this school year 2008 2009. So, you know, it's been a quite a many years since then. But I just think that when we have the ability to right and wrong into make law and to put rules into place and to make things better, if we have the ability to do that, it's our responsibility, especially to protect those who can't protect themselves.

Michael Hingson  20:31 So all of that happened, which gave you the opportunity to gain a lot of knowledge do you think we've made, mate? Well, let me ask another question first, if I could, were all the children involved. Back then kids with disabilities? Yes. Uh huh. Were they was it all autism or a variety of different disability?

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  20:54 Yeah, I was a disability. Okay.

Michael Hingson  20:57 So now, the question that comes to mind is, do you think that there have been major advances and improvements in the system since then?

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  21:08 I think it depends on where you are in the country. I think it really depends on the advocacy work that's done, the awarenesses that had been made. But I think we still have a lot of places that have not made a lot of advancement across our country, which is sad. And I'm not saying that. I certainly don't want anyone to be angry. It's just it's doing the research and having that awareness that we still have a lot of work to do. You know, we still have, we still have, you know, I Somebody just sent me something the other day, and the report was about the states in the United States that are really great for families with children with challenges and the ones that still are not. And so, you know, we still have some work to do. Absolutely.

Michael Hingson  21:53 I think there's a lot of work that needs to be done. And it's, it's a real problem, because we talk about diversity. But diversity doesn't include disabilities. It still doesn't.

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  22:08 I you know, you that is absolutely true. Be especially this whole last through the pandemic and all the the rising up of folks with diversity. Well, and I don't even you know, that's really not we're just humans, right? It doesn't matter what we look like, we're all human. But a disability is totally different than diversity. You know,

Michael Hingson  22:30 it shouldn't be but it is.

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  22:32 I know, I agree.

Michael Hingson  22:33 And that's why we talk about inclusion. One of my favorite speeches that I give regularly is moving from diversity to inclusion, because that's what we need to do. Right? You either are inclusive, or you're not. And the whole idea of, well, I'm partially inclusive, we deal with race and stuff, we just don't deal with disabilities. No, you're not inclusive, right. And we need to get to the point in our society where we truly recognize we're not inclusive, and work vigorously and absolutely as hard as we can to change that. But we don't. And you're, I'm not surprised that your answer of it differs depending on where you are in the country. And it also differs some from disability quote, to disability. But the reality is, from my perspective, you can put it all in this context. Take blindness, the reality is, every single person in the world has a disability. Some of us are light independent, we don't care if the lights are on or not. Most of you are light dependent, you need the light in order to function, you haven't learned how to get around in the dark. We fixed that when Thomas Edison and others invented the electric light bulb. So now you can flip a switch, and you can see what you're doing. But don't insult us by saying that that doesn't mean you have a disability because it does. Without those lights, you're in a world of hurt, what happens we get a power failure. Immediately people go looking for the candles in the flashlight. You poor individuals can't function without light. And I feel sorry for you.

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  24:19 You know, I It's, I love that you said that because I've never heard someone say that before. I mean, I know when I talk about, you know, learning through the eyes, you know, quote, unquote, the world through someone or someone else. You know, that's the beauty. One of the beauties of having a child who has needs, you get to learn life a totally different way. You know, you get to see it, hear it, feel it, it helps you come outside of your box to understand there's so much more to the world than what you think there is. And you just said it right there. And that's really funny because we are very dependent on electricity and yes, the power goes out what does everybody do? They start to scream Oh my gosh, where's the lights? You know? When kids freak out, you know, Mom, Mom, is everything okay? And, you know, and then for Michael, he'd be like, yeah, what's wrong with you people,

Michael Hingson  25:09 even more than electricity, even more than electricity, it's just light. I mean, back in the back in the day, before electric lights, it was fire and candles, and you've always had a fireplace or you had torches, go back 1000s of years still had torches once we discovered fire. And the fact is that you guys don't do well without light. And that's okay. But don't think that that's the only way to do business and to function. But that's what we do. We teach people there's only one way and the reality is eyesight is not the only game in town. Hearing is not the only game in town, for people who are deaf and hard of hearing. And the verbiage and the words matter, and are a big part of it. So when people talk about me, they're afraid to say or they think it's not politically correct to say you're blind. So they say your sight impaired, well, no, you're blind impaired. But then the other thing that they talk about is your visually impaired? Well, that's the worst terminology that we can use. Because the last time I checked, visual meant how things appear. It's all a visual experience. And so visually impaired is is wrong. But that's what the professionals in the world have worked with the blind talked about for many years. I don't really like vision impaired, because I think I have lots of vision, I just don't say to people, I don't see good,

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  26:35 y, right. So what is proper, and I'm glad you're bringing that up what is proper, because I know everyone's trying to be so careful. And you know, there are words that people just don't use anymore. Like my mother worked in the college 40 years ago, and it was the handicap department, we don't use those words anymore. So what is appropriate for someone who is bald,

Michael Hingson  26:56 so a person who's blind is blind, right? There's nothing wrong with being blind. And if you can see some, we could debate about this, but you're either partially blind or partially sighted, I choose partially blind. But I could go either way, you're blind, or you're partially blind, or you're sighted, and all three of those categories? Well, the reality is, if you're partially blind, it's also a good opportunity to learn the skills that that totally blind people use. Because one, your eyesight might deteriorate. Or two, the skills that I use might greatly enhance what you as a partially blind person would do. So for example, if your eyesight is diminished to the point where you have to use alternatives to full eyesight to say read print, because the prints too small, you have to use large print, magnifiers, and so on, it's also probably a good time to learn to read Braille. Because no matter what you do with those alternatives to regular size print, you won't read as fast, you will probably get headaches and have other kinds of things that will make it more difficult for you to read as much. And as often. Whereas with Braille, you can read all day, and you will be a much faster reader. And today the technology exists that many, many more things are available to be in a Braille format than ever were before. But we don't include teachers still won't even teach totally blind kids Braille and you don't need Braille, you can listen to audiobooks. Well, if that's the case, why do they teach sighted kids to read print? Why don't they just let them watch TV, but we don't do that. We're not inclusive. So the blind kids don't get the full services that they deserve. And it's the same sort of thing that you experience with your children. We don't get included, and we don't understand and we don't teach people to understand.

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  29:01 Right. And that's part of education, you know, that's part of continuing to have these conversations to, to make people are aware to help them understand to you know, it's like today, this meeting I had earlier, I was telling you a little bit about it. And the things I was talking about, they had no awareness of now they have an awareness about it, which is fantastic, right?

Michael Hingson  29:28 Yeah. And hopefully they will internalize that enough to follow through and not make it a one time thing, but rather recognize that we all deserve to be treated equally. And equality doesn't necessarily mean that we treat people exactly the same way. What equal means is that I truly need to have equal access to the same things. And so giving me a print book does not provide me with equal access to that. book that you have. And there's nothing wrong with that. Equal access to school desks doesn't mean that a left handed person should necessarily get the same desk with a return on it that a right handed person uses their they need to have the side of the deck come out on the other side.

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  30:21 Yeah, they need to be on the outside, not in the middle between two people with their left handed.

Michael Hingson  30:27 Yeah, well, or they need to have the desk configured so that the the armrest or the return is on the left side as opposed to the right side. There's so many different things. And there's nothing wrong with us expecting that we make these accommodations. That's what the Americans with Disabilities Act is all about. Is mandating or requiring that we make accommodations, it needs to be strengthened. Right. I remember once being on an airplane with my guide dog. And I don't like to sit in the front row. People say but there's more room for the dog. Yes. And if there are turbulence, there's nothing to keep the dog from bouncing around. And the reality is, don't look at it the way you want to look at it. I'm the one that has been using a guide dog for well, now 58 years. But we actually had a legal action that that I needed to take against an airline back in no, well, in 1980, the incident actually occurred. So that's now 42 years ago. But I wanted to sit in something other than the front row of an aircraft. And the airline policy wasn't what I would like it to be. But it said that I could sit in any of the first three rows with my guide dog. So I wanted to sit and row to the pilot would have none of it, he violated his own airline policies. And we had to take it to court. And again, based on a technicality, the policy of the airline wasn't even allowed to be entered into the court record. Because the lawyer for the airline said, but it's not an FAA document. It's an airline rule. And the judge bought into that, which is extremely unfortunate. So we do get technicalities all over the place. But the reality is, the airline pilot violated his own company policy, and had not one single piece of accountability for violating their own rules. Well, everybody ended up paying for it because the airline went out of business. So I love to think I was a contributor to that.

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  32:42 Good for you. Well, I mean, you know, we are trying to write, you know, we are there are corrections that need to be made in this world. And it's interesting, how much show needs to be done. So

Michael Hingson  32:56 well, you are doing a lot of different things. Tell me about the TV show that you started. Why did you start that? And tell me a little bit more about that?

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  33:05 Um, well, back in 2017, in the early part of 2017, I got I was first published. And I wanted to I had a friend who was kind of diving in a little bit to live streaming back then. And she, we had a conversation I said, You know what I would really like to do a show, where we have a platform of 30 minutes to offer authors, they get to come on and talk about their books and their journey and things like that. And she said, Okay, let's do it. And so we started it in 2017 It's three and a half years later, we're still going strong. We're booked for the entire year actually. And it's very exciting. We have interviewed authors New York Times bestsellers, international bestsellers, debut authors, publicist, illustrators narrators you know, I like to feature and we like to feature my co host and I everything in the writing world so that we can offer that to folks who are looking for a new book and a new authors to love. Maybe they want to do it but they don't know how to get started, you know, so we like to provide all that. And then I have special needs TV. So that's all about the special needs and disability world and that has been on hiatus but it's starting back this month. It is autism awareness month. So we're just starting back this month and that is interviews and information and resources for families in the disability community. You know, that's what we're providing with that that online TV show.

Michael Hingson  34:48 Well of course October we have what National Disability Awareness Month are actually now more National Disability Employment Awareness Month. And, and there ought to be in it's also meet the blind month which the National Federation of the Blind helped to begin. And there there ought to be more done in the area of creating the conversation. It would be great if if the government would help to create the conversation, but we do need to create more of a conversation around it. The reality is, if you want to put it in a fear environment, anyone can suddenly discover they have a disability. Chris, my position is that we all do anyway, but a more visible disability. And so, what, what all of us face is no respecter of anyone. And it would be ideal if everyone had every sense that everyone has. But the reality is, all of us are given different gifts. And we need to get the message out that just because someone doesn't have the same gifts you do, let's face it, you don't have the same gifts that someone else does. I bet that most of the people listening to this show, aren't really great in math and aren't really incredibly adept at performing partial differential equations and, and other things like that, that, that I learned when I was going to school, but I have an aptitude for it. Or even doing audio editing, I was speaking with someone yesterday about starting a podcast and talked about the fact that editing the podcast is something that I like to do to a to a degree, and then I turn it over to someone to do the hosting. And I think that everyone who does a podcast ought to do some of that. Because it really gives you a better flavor for what's going on if you have some involvement in it. But this person is I could never do that, well, maybe they can. And maybe it's they really don't have an aptitude for it, or they've just talked themselves into it. But we all have gifts, and we all ought to be not only allowed to utilize our gifts to our maximum potential, but we all be respected for the gifts that we have, which are different than gifts that others have.

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  37:06 Right, we also need to have you know, it's I just, I wish that we could help spread that awareness for families, caregivers, whoever's raising the child, to help them find that pathway for themselves. You know, what, what are they good at? What are what do they excel at? What do they love, you know, where's their channel for them, and help them grow that, because it can turn a situation and a child's life completely around for them, you know, and make it a success,

Michael Hingson  37:44 when children are really allowed to explore, to the best of their ability, and parents really allow them to do that. Which means free, frankly, sometimes taking a risk and letting a child do that. But the child is going to grow a lot more than they otherwise would.

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  38:03 Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

Michael Hingson  38:06 It does have to be scary to be a kid today. I mean, there are just so many examples of ways that the kids are exploited and so on. And so it's also a lot tougher, I think, to be a parent than it was when I was growing up. And when you were growing up, but still, kids have to be able to learn and grow.

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  38:26 They do you know it and I'm parenting twice. So like I have a 21 year old, an 18 year old and an eight year old. So it's like I'm having this do over stage right, because I've already been I've already been through my daughter's and then now I've got my son and just in that short span of time, life is totally different now raising him than it was raising my girls, you know, they didn't have as much access to social media is like my son does in their world is so unless you're a parent that's on top of it, and you're only allowing certain times with it and certain shows to watch and certain things to do. You know, that can be all consuming for a child, well, then what are they learning? So since my son is he's very smart. He has autism level one, he's sensory processing, language processing, and then various other things as well. But what we have to understand about children, whether they have a challenge or not, is the way their brain functions. And so there are they're exposed to things so much younger now that their brain can't really process yet. So they really don't know is that real or not? Is it okay for me to do that or not? So we have kids that are doing things younger and younger, and being exposed to things that they really don't have the mindset yet to be able to process. So you know if like, my son is a boy, he has testosterone, right? So he has a tendency toward aggression. So if he is going to spend time watching shows that are aggressive, what kind behaviors you're going to display in life. So as a parent, you need to be aware of that and expose them to more like, calm, peaceful, gentle way of doing things. So they can, you know, be able to work through their life and their world in a much more balanced way, as opposed to, oh, you know, punching and fighting and jumping and hurting and, you know, banging and, you know, I mean, that's all part of growing up for a boy and testosterone. But still, you know, there needs to be that, I guess that watch on it is I'm only coming from my own experience with my child and watching other children as well, you know, so we have to be aware and responsible as parents and caregivers,

Michael Hingson  40:48 as your youngest, what your son, does he read a lot, or is he able to do a lot of

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  40:54 that? Getting a lot better at it? Yes, this this just recently, he's kind of blossomed. And, you know, that's always been really hard for him. I mean, he was nonverbal. And his language really didn't come through until he was, I guess, even at five we were still having trouble with he was he was still having a challenge with it. And I've just in this last year, seen him grow so much now i homeschooled last year because of the pandemic. So I got to see the whole process on a deeper level of how he learns. And I ended up going to the county to get some testing done on some additional things that I was like, Okay, I'm seeing this besides all his diagnosis, you know, because a lot of times, a child can have things that come on later in their life as they progress through and then now they have a new diagnosis for something that does happen with kids. But you know, he, he has, he really struggles with, he has his lot of language processing stuff that he struggles with. So you just have to take it at his pace, we use different techniques to teach so that he can get it. And he's, he's very, very smart. It's just it's like a really high functioning ASD child or Asperger's or autistic child who has no social skills, but they're very, very smart. In other areas, I mean, all children have their strengths. In I just learned so much about the brain through my children, and the kids that I my kids and the things they've dealt with, it is so fascinating how the brain works, and how you could have one area of the brain that is functioning very high, and then another part of the brain that's not able to do much of anything. You know, it's just fascinating. So what do you do? Well, you focus on those strengths. And then you work on those weaknesses and help make them stronger for a child. No.

Michael Hingson  42:52 Well, yeah, and I was the reason I asked about reading, as I was thinking of, as you point out all the graphic and the violence stuff on television. And there's there there are things that are not my wife and I both love mysteries. But if you really come down to it, the mysteries that I like the best, although we are James Patterson fans, and JD Robin, so on, my favorite mysteries are still the ones that are really puzzles, if you will, and don't need to portray all the violence and show graphically all the violence to get you deep into the book, or the or the movie or enthralled by it. So we love, for example, Hallmark movies and mysteries is as a channel, because there, it isn't nearly as violent. But the mysteries are there. And oftentimes, we'll watch something. Didn't we see that already? Yeah, but I don't remember how it turned out. But again, they're not as violent and we don't need that shock value. No. And we don't need the gross violence, to if we allow ourselves to do it to get into who really done it, you know. And so, for me, books that do that are the same way I love to try to figure out who did it, what and exactly how they did some of the things that they do. And I think that the best books and the ones that will ultimately be the classics are the ones that create the most puzzles, and keep people in growth without violence to do it.

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  44:30 Right. And unfortunately, our social media and media of the world has, it's almost like they have convinced our public to think in our youth that you've got to have that. It's like we've become so desensitized to things that you need more and more and more, to get a response and to feel that sensation of whatever it's trying to portray to you. When really exactly what you We're talking about is it doesn't take that much, you can watch a very something very innocent and really gain something out of it. And so I wish that we had more ability to bring back into balance, what's out there for viewership, you know, whether it's online or television period,

Michael Hingson  45:26 you've got a lot of things going on between the writers corner and the television shows, obviously a busy mom and so on. What do you enjoy most? Well, it was, I had to ask. Well,

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  45:41 it's funny, I do love writing, even if I'm not, you know, because I'm a ghost writer, but as well, but I even not for that I like writing for myself. Writing isn't inspires me, when I see something that inspires me, I like to write about it. It's a good channel. For me, it's a way to decompress. But you know, I love nature. I love I love family time. You know, because I'm a big advocate for a strong family. And, and getting back to the, the importance of the roots of a family and why family is important. And being able to work out issues within a family, you're never always going to agree. And there can be some very unpleasant things. And some families have a lot of dysfunction in them. But I come from a broken family. So it was my goal to make sure my family is strong, and I teach my children, the importance of that. But I love the beach, I love hiking, I love I grew up on horses. So I love that. And, you know, it's I do I do do yoga, I meditate, those are things that helped keep me balanced in my life that bring me kind of keep me grounded with everything going on. Because otherwise I wouldn't be able to do all the stuff that I'm you know, trying to do. And I had a tolerance for it. So you

Michael Hingson  47:05 do a lot of stuff where you truly have to think and do a lot of introspection, which I would assume helps. And you really have to put things in mental order in terms of what you do.

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  47:20 Yes, I do. Absolutely.

Michael Hingson  47:23 So that, that forcing yourself to really think and not just reacting is is I would think pretty important too.

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  47:32 It is it's very important. And I think when you're trying to think of solutions, and like things like solutions for a child or in your own life, you really do have to stop and think and how can we come more from a place of action as opposed to reaction, because we're so especially through the pandemic charged, if you want to say, you know, we're more charged as an environment of humans than we used to be. And a lot of that is being charged by other people's emotions and what's happening, like what happened in New York yesterday in Brooklyn. And then, at the same time that was going on, I was on the I was actually online with my co host and producer of our show, and she's in Cape Town, South Africa, and she was reading that they had a landslide from flooding and 45 people died. And, you know, that's an awful thing that happened over there. That's not a normal thing for them to have landslides over there. And I just think the fear factor that's out there with the pandemic, and where are we headed in this country and the world creates so much anxiety for all most everyone, unless we find a place to kind of be in our happy bubble. You know, let's sit in this place. And everything else is out there.

Michael Hingson  48:56 Being in our own closet well. So Where Where does God fit into your life nowadays, I understand not the past not withstanding,

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  49:06 no god is, you know, after everything that happened with my daughter, and then my son was born. It was a really, there was like a rebirthing. For me, in my belief system with God. God is always been a part of my life. Ever since I was little bitty and could understand. I've had, you know, many very interesting experiences in my life. But God is just very important to me in my life in my children's lives, and my husband and our family and is the center, you know, in God guides us gives us strength helps us to understand things in the world more than, you know, as a human. How do we make sense of what's happening? Why are other humans doing what they're doing to others? I mean, it's really hard, you know, so we have to turn to something that we believe in and for me It is God. You know, God gives me my power and my strength every day to do what I do. And listen, when God gives me an idea or a thought or three o'clock in the morning, and God says, You got to do this. You know, I have learned in the last five years, at least, I have our 5678 years, I have to do what he says. And even if I say, Okay, I don't know what I'm doing. And he's like, we'll do it anyways, I don't care. You know, it's like, that's what happened with the writers corner live show, you know, he said, You got to do a show. And then I was like, why don't know what I'm doing. Because I don't care. Just do it. And then three and a half years later, here we are, you know, my first manuscript for my children's book, I sat on for two years, I didn't do anything with it, because I thought I'd just keep it for my kids to read one day, and it was like, somebody kept doing this on my shoulder, you have to do something with this, you have to do something with this. And so I finally surrendered. And when I did all these doors opened up, and and then here I am. So I am a believer in miracles. Absolutely, I'm a believer in miracles, my three children are miracles, because I was not. I was told I would never ever have children. So and especially what I went through with my son, in the end of my pregnancy, and after my recovery, you know, it was a miracle. So I do believe in

Michael Hingson  51:21 Him. And great gifts all too. Yes, absolutely. Yes. So, so what tell me about prayer than you know, talking with God talking to God? Where does prayer fit into everything that you've experienced?

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  51:38 Well, I have two of my kids, because I have one in college, one in high school, one in elementary, and two of my kids are in Christian School. So their life is taught to them from a Christian perspective, which is, I think, really great because it gives them a grounding. That's what I've seen with my children, and a sense of a purpose larger than just being inside themselves consumed by you know, I want this, I need that, because we're humans, we tend to be that way, right? But we pray every day, we talk about Scripture every morning that we can that we have time for because you know, a lot of times you're rushing out the door. But, you know, we we surrender. And we lean on God for strength. So I pray and meditate every day. That's a part of my everyday life. And it doesn't always mean it's in the morning, sometimes it's three o'clock in the morning, if I wake up and can't go back to sleep. Then I go into prayer and meditation and I surrender all of my worries and concerns or just asking for guidance. Please show me the way open the doors, open the opportunities, leave me Tell me what you want me to do. You know, so there is surrender involved in all of it?

Michael Hingson  52:46 Well, there actually is. And the fact of the matter is that from from me and observing a lot of people in prayer and talking about prayer, it's about them telling God what they want. And every time I hear that, I kind of go, don't you think God already knows

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  53:05 what the Bible tells us? If you read? You know, people do do that. Right. And we are I think we're taught that sometimes to tell God what you want. But I mean, in the Bible, it says, to go ahead and thank Him that you've already received

Michael Hingson  53:17 it. Well, that and my point is that it's all about talking with God not talking to God. And we tend to want to as a, as a race, or as a set of creatures think that we're the ones that are in total control. Well, God, God does give us free will. But there are laws within which you exercise free will. And and it is important, if you truly want to get the best solution that you you need to ask to, to be shown what you need to get the best solution, as opposed to just saying, God, I need this.

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  53:54 Yeah, I know, it doesn't always work that way. So we have to we have to surrender to get to what what is in our highest and best good, what is in the highest and best good for those around us, our children, our family, friends, or whatever project we're maybe working on. And God show me the way show me the way because I am human and I don't know everything, you know, so I need some guidance on this and put in my heart what it is you want me to do. And I just, you know, I have friends who and I know people who don't believe in God. And you know, that's their that's what their choices and it's like, you know, we have to be okay with wherever somebody is. You know, I believe the way I believe because of the way I was raised and my own experiences in my life have led me to where I am now. You know, and it's it's made, even though trauma has happened in my life and in sad things have happened. They've happened to everybody, but what got me through with my dependents On or my reliance on and my surrendering to God?

Michael Hingson  55:04 Well, you know, in the thing about God and meditation and prayer, and I think meditation really, in a lot of ways is, is a significant amount of part of prayer. Because what you're really doing, as you said, when you truly meditate is you're opening your mind, you're not trying to solve problems you are surrendering, giving up or giving up all things or simply saying, these are here, but I'm just going to be open to what comes along. And then, of course, there are a number of different kinds of meditation, but it still amounts to the same thing that you're truly looking inward to get to a place of much more inner peace than you otherwise would

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  55:49 have. Right? Exactly. Yeah.

Michael Hingson  55:53 Have you ever read 10% happier by Dan Harris?

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  55:56 No, I have not, I will have to check that out. So

Michael Hingson  55:59 he was a host on the weekend edition of Good Morning America for years, and along the way, became involved in meditation. And he wrote this book entitled, 10%, happier, and there's also a 10% happier app. And he talks about the two main ways of meditation and just talks about the value, that meditation has brought him a really not only a good book, but a really good read for anyone who kind of wants to learn more about it and understand the value of bringing meditation into their lives.

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  56:35 Well, it's a very important thing. It's been very instrumental in my life. And it's been very instrumental in all three of my children's lives, and my daughter, you know, with anxiety, and, you know, I used it a lot during the pandemic, everybody was home, schools were shut down, life was scary. Okay, we got to ground ourselves here. And we've got to focus on positive and what we do have control over what our choices are, where we have power, because everybody wants to know where they have control and power, right. That's an innate thing and all of us, and not to control somebody else. But to not feel so helpless. Because the pandemic and lockdown made most all of us feel pretty helpless didn't.

Michael Hingson  57:20 And that was all about fear. We got here, we became so afraid that we wouldn't ask for help, we wouldn't accept help. And we were just afraid of doing anything. And that continues today. And that's one of the reasons that we started working on the project. I've mentioned a couple times on this podcast to guide dogs Guide to Being brave. And we're, we're excited, that's going to be the next book that that I write. And that will be a little ways out yet. But the fact of the matter is that it's not about brave, it's not about fear. It's about being open and learning to look at what goes on around you. And you said it very well. You learn what you can control. And don't worry about the things that you can't, because it's not going to do you any good. It's going to just stress you out. Right. So

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  58:11 I stay busy. My kids are out doing whatever, you know, I've got one on a trip somewhere and yeah, the others at college and you know, so you just, and I, I had to surrender a lot. And I know I have to go pick up my little guy from school. But, you know, when you have your child abused in a public school system, we've let your child be the challenge is to ever let your child be with anyone ever again. Other than you that that took a lot of strength and growth for me a lot.

Michael Hingson  58:49 What does it mean to you to be an advocate? What does happen because he mean to you?

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  58:55 Well, it means it means a lot actually it means fighting for and, you know fighting for things that someone else can't being a voice for someone else who doesn't have a voice speaking up for others who can't it trying to make the world a better place. Um, I feel I guess I feel a sense of responsibility for some reason that I you know, I'm supposed to I just know that it's on my heart and there's a purpose inside of me that drives me to be an advocate.

Michael Hingson  59:32 What's your favorite part of of advocacy?

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  59:36 Well, seeing something work,

Michael Hingson  59:39 seeing something work

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  59:42 that you try for, I would say most recently would be the art exhibit at the Nashville Public Library with eight artists with challenges or disabilities and seeing their art on display for whoever comes, you know, in giving people a little bit of a peep of the view into that A person's world, you know, and what art represents for them, because art empowers all of us. And so I would say, that brings me a lot of joy, you know, seeing a library turn a room into a sensory room for kids. That is exciting to be a part of, you know, I'm getting ready to embark on creating some toys and tools and apps to make the world a better place for children and adults who have challenges that is exciting to me to be a part of solutions, I guess,

Michael Hingson  1:00:29 what advice would you give to parents and others today about advocacy and dealing with kids with special needs and so on? Well, I

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  1:00:39 would say that, as you know, becoming an advocate is one of the most empowering things that you'll do for yourself, for your child, to educate yourself to get to get certified in it. So then you understand what your rights are, what your child's rights are, and be able to maneuver for them. Like with a doctor with a school. I mean, I took my my my education as a an advocate, and used it medically for my daughter, my oldest going into college, the campus was not ADA compliant. So we had them build a ramp for her her first semester of college, you know, so if I was not trained in any of this, I wouldn't have known to go do that for her and for the school. So ask questions. If you are up against you know, something's going on with your child. And nobody's listening to you, then you keep going to you keep searching until you find a doctor who will listen to your concerns and always listen to your instincts. Always listen to your your mom instinct, your dad instinct, Grandma instinct, because it's always right. You know your child better than

Michael Hingson  1:01:48 anyone else. Your oldest daughter has a disability as well. Well, she

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  1:01:53 had hip surgery, going into major surgery going into college and was in a wheelchair and then on crutches, and it took a year to heal. So you know that that was what happened for her.

Michael Hingson  1:02:05 So she's all healed now.

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  1:02:07 She's all healed. Now. She's, she's got enough sensory issues that she deals with. But you know, we work through those things, sensory issues, or we work through all that now?

Michael Hingson  1:02:16 Well, if her hip is all he if her hip is all healed, and all that, is she gonna apply apply for being a place kicker for the Titans? Or what? Just checking, you know,

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  1:02:25 I will ask her,

Michael Hingson  1:02:27 ask her that that. Well, but I but I appreciate what you're saying. And advocacy is important. But more, most important of all, it seems to me is that parents really do need to understand their children not go into it with the prejudices that we've all been taught. And when you discover that you have a child who has gifts that are different than yours, and I can use the term disability, but I do think we we totally warp it in ways that we shouldn't, because it isn't a lack of ability. So if you discover that you your child has different gifts, I think it's also important that we learn how to be open to letting our children use those gifts, and not limiting them by our own perceived limitations. And let and let them explore the world. Yes, we're going to supervise them and helicopter them to a degree and all that, but let them explore the world, let them learn because it's the only way we're going to grow.

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  1:03:32 That's exactly right. Never tell them they can't do something because they have a challenge about it. Always encourage them always encourage them, you know, because then they learn to be more confident in themselves. And that's important.

Michael Hingson  1:03:45 Yeah, I mean, when someone says, Why, why should I allow my child to do this? Why should this be the case? My favorite answer is still why not? Exactly. Well, Mary, this has been absolutely enjoyable. We do need to do more of it. And I'd love to meet meet your kids. But I'd love

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  1:04:09 for you to absolutely yes, they would love to meet you. I think you're amazing. And I'm so honored to be here on your show. Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed this. And we need to do more. And I want to have you on my show. And you know, we should collab about talking about this awareness.

Michael Hingson  1:04:27 Absolutely. Absolutely. How can people reach you? How can they learn about your books and so on?

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  1:04:33 Well go to www dot mariee jackson.com all of my books are there. Links to my shows are there and some information about advocacy and stuff in there as well. And I'm going to I will continue adding information you know, always adding

Michael Hingson  1:04:49 in people email you through the site and contact you bottom and

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  1:04:53 there was a contact email. I think my phone numbers there. My publicist is there too if somebody wants to contact him for an interview who are speaking? And I'm on Facebook is Mary Elizabeth Jackson? Instagram Mary Jackson Five because there's five of us.

Michael Hingson  1:05:10 Oh my gosh. It's an invasion

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  1:05:16 Yeah, we're the Jackson Five and then LinkedIn is Mary Elizabeth Jackson, I think on LinkedIn as well. So

Michael Hingson  1:05:22 well I hope people will reach out and and read your books. I'm gonna have to go find them and and read them as well. But we really do appreciate you being on unstoppable mindset today.

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  1:05:34 Thank you, I appreciate you being here. Thank you so much for the opportunity.

Michael Hingson  1:05:39 Well, thank you. And for those of you listening, thanks for joining. Thanks for being here. Please give us a five star rating wherever you're listening to this podcast. And if you'd like to reach out to me, I'd love to hear from you your thoughts, ideas for future shows. And whatever you want to say, email me at Michaelhi@accessibe.com. That's M I C H A E L H I at A C C E S S I B E.com. Or go to my podcast page www.Michaelhingson.com/podcast. M I C H A E L H I N G S O N is M I C H A E L H I N G S O N. So we hope that you enjoy this and that you'll come back again next week. Thanks again for listening and being here with us and making our day better and Mary thank you especially.

Mary Elizabeth Jackson  1:06:32 Oh, thank you so much my goal with these soon. Absolutely.

UM Intro/Outro  1:06:40 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com. accessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.