Speaker 1: Welcome to Guys We Fucked. Guys We Guys we Book.
Speaker 1: I'm Christina, I'm Corren. We're sorry about last night, the
Speaker 1: anti slut shaming Podcast. I never stopped. Hey, everybody, welcome
Speaker 1: to another episode of Guys We Fund the anti slus
Speaker 1: shaming Podcast. I'm Karen. I'm Christina oh Man. This episode
Speaker 1: of Guys We Fucked is partially brought to you by
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Speaker 1: a free trial, y'all. Ha ha ha comedy. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: So it's been a great week. I got a cat
Speaker 1: called like more intensely than I ever thought I would
Speaker 1: be before. Some like there was a bunch of people
Speaker 1: were you wearing? There was a very cute romper. Uh.
Speaker 1: There was a bunch of people hanging out on James's
Speaker 1: soup and like I go to his apartment late at
Speaker 1: night a lot because I come after comedy shows. And
Speaker 1: there was a bunch of people. And if that's always
Speaker 1: annoying because you have to walk through like a bunch
Speaker 1: of dudes just like sitting on a stoop. It's like,
Speaker 1: fucking move, what are you doing? Just get out of
Speaker 1: my way. It's like, don't block. It's rude. And then
Speaker 1: it makes you feel uncomfortable as a woman, especially when
Speaker 1: you're wearing something a little shorter, because like they can
Speaker 1: see from that angle just right up it. It's never
Speaker 1: a good feeling. It's never the vibe that I get
Speaker 1: when I am. When I know I'm about to walk
Speaker 1: through an area where there's a bunch of dude just
Speaker 1: sitting there hanging, it's never goes well. Yeah. Ever, and
Speaker 1: it was so aggressive. This guy was just like he
Speaker 1: was just like yo, I want to hit that from behind,
Speaker 1: Like I want to put my dick in your butt
Speaker 1: like that graphic, like that graphic, and like like just
Speaker 1: he kept going and I was like, are you fucking
Speaker 1: kidding me? And he followed me into the building. And
Speaker 1: then later I was talking to James and I don't
Speaker 1: even think that this person lives in the building, and
Speaker 1: he was just hanging on the followed me into the building.
Speaker 1: So I'm just like walking up, I give him the
Speaker 1: middle finger and he's just like, I don't like that,
Speaker 1: And I was like, are you are you kidding me? What?
Speaker 1: I don't like? Stir? I don't like being raped with
Speaker 1: your words when you talk about when you pull want
Speaker 1: to pull your dick in my butt? Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: just like, I mean, I don't. That's the instance where
Speaker 1: it's like, what do you do? Because that's so pissed
Speaker 1: me off so fucking badly. It's like I can't physically
Speaker 1: fight six other people, so like, and I think there
Speaker 1: was like a girl sitting with them, and I'm just
Speaker 1: that's that's disappointing. Yeah, have you ever made it like
Speaker 1: if someone acts like an ass And on days when
Speaker 1: I just when I say to myself, if someone says
Speaker 1: something to me like off color like that, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna fucking lose my line for certain days where
Speaker 1: I'm on edge, right, and those times, I get so
Speaker 1: angry that sometimes I'll resort to, like my mom just
Speaker 1: died of cancer or something, because my goal is to
Speaker 1: make them feel horrible. But I don't know how to
Speaker 1: do that unless I lie about my mom dying a
Speaker 1: cancer or something like that. I don't know, Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't. I just there's nothing because if if I
Speaker 1: say something mean back and then they laugh, oh, run
Speaker 1: for the hills, I don't know what I would do.
Speaker 1: I would go crazy. Yeah, I assume people like that
Speaker 1: are soulless, So I don't even try to make them
Speaker 1: feel bad because I assume that it's impossible. Um, I
Speaker 1: just kind of hope that they get hit on a
Speaker 1: bus by a bus on the way like that. They
Speaker 1: just I just I just truly feel in my heart
Speaker 1: that the universe will take care of them. That's good.
Speaker 1: That's a good way to think about it, because I
Speaker 1: get too angry because it's like my I mean, my
Speaker 1: real goal is that people will like kind of like
Speaker 1: learned the error of their ways, and that that I
Speaker 1: have this dream that I could like actually change someone's
Speaker 1: opinion with like a two minute conversation. But that's not
Speaker 1: I also had that dream is not gonna happen and
Speaker 1: never happen. Why do I try though? Yeah, I've tried
Speaker 1: every tactic. I've even tried to pretend that I was
Speaker 1: maybe a litlementally disabled and uh I guess what. That
Speaker 1: didn't work either, because they were like, oh vulnerable more,
Speaker 1: Oh yo, you sick. Fuck that's alarming, man. Come see
Speaker 1: us live, Come see us live. You guys. We're both
Speaker 1: gonna be in Toronto for just for laughs. On Thursday,
Speaker 1: September two, at nine pm, we're doing a live recording
Speaker 1: of Guys We Fucked. There's individual tickets available for that
Speaker 1: Friday September The nine pm show has passed is only
Speaker 1: I believe that's sold out. But the midnight show we're
Speaker 1: doing our tour show. It's called Guys We Fuck Dicksparants
Speaker 1: and links for that are in the description of this podcast.
Speaker 1: You can get individual tickets for that. It's gonna be crazy,
Speaker 1: y'all um. And then uh, I have Glamour Plus. The
Speaker 1: next Glamor Pus is in New York City at Zinc Bar,
Speaker 1: two third Street on Friday September PM, close to by
Speaker 1: me Wendy Starling, and then later that night if you
Speaker 1: also want to come to another show on Friday, September thirty,
Speaker 1: which is the day after my Birthday'm just saying at
Speaker 1: eleven uh pm. Uh, It's Nasho Bitches September edition, co
Speaker 1: hosted by Blair Saki and myself at New York Comedy Club.
Speaker 1: Use code Nacho for ten dollar tickets. God damn it,
Speaker 1: I should have checked with you before that one. I'm sorry. Uh,
Speaker 1: New Orleans. We're both going to be in New Orleans
Speaker 1: for the hell yes best. We're doing a live recording
Speaker 1: of Guys We Funked on Wednesday, October twelve at eight
Speaker 1: p m. It is all ages. Tickets start at twenty
Speaker 1: five bucks. Um. You can have the link in the podcast,
Speaker 1: or you can just go to Sorry about last Night
Speaker 1: Comedy dot com slash Tour and those dates will be
Speaker 1: there as well. All right, and thank you again to
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Speaker 1: is an email from a fokker. The subject is I'm
Speaker 1: a hard person to love. Hey, Karen and Christina. I'm
Speaker 1: a big fan of your podcast that's started listening to
Speaker 1: it frequently after I was told by my friend to
Speaker 1: check it out. I don't really want to give out
Speaker 1: my name, but I am a male. I recently graduated
Speaker 1: college and I didn't realize how hard dating would be
Speaker 1: when you start working. I've been on Tinder and I've
Speaker 1: been on a few dates that ended in sex, but
Speaker 1: I'm definitely looking for more than just hooking up. I'm
Speaker 1: kind of a hard person to love. I'm indifferent about
Speaker 1: most things. I'm introverted, and I don't like talking about
Speaker 1: my feelings. Uh. Girls I date complain that I do
Speaker 1: not open it up enough. But I think if I
Speaker 1: talked about how I felt, girls that I meet would
Speaker 1: be genuinely scared for me. Wow. Um, And I was
Speaker 1: gonna say out of me And I was like for me,
Speaker 1: And I was like, is that better or Worse's? I
Speaker 1: do not have a problem. I'm not suicidal or anything.
Speaker 1: In fact, I'm really grateful for my life. I just
Speaker 1: in one of those people that sees the worst in
Speaker 1: most everyone else. I hear you. Uh, not to say
Speaker 1: I don't like people, but I believe most everyone I
Speaker 1: see up bars or in public on their phones are
Speaker 1: just fake, including myself. I'm very self critical. Well that's
Speaker 1: the number one thing that get rid of Um. I'm
Speaker 1: extremely honest with myself about the person I am, and
Speaker 1: I'm not afraid to bring myself down a few levels
Speaker 1: when I realize I've done wrong. I've only seen it
Speaker 1: as a good personality trait because instead of whining about
Speaker 1: my shitty life. I really do that you're so grateful for.
Speaker 1: I really do strive to make a difference. I work out,
Speaker 1: I work hard at my job, and I want the
Speaker 1: most out of the short time I have on Earth.
Speaker 1: The problem is I don't think most people think like
Speaker 1: I do. Usually I keep quiet and stay away from
Speaker 1: sharing opinions for that reason. I see people getting drunk
Speaker 1: at bars and slowly evolved from having a good time
Speaker 1: to having drunk debates about Trump or whatever, and I
Speaker 1: wish I could just yell, cut it with the bullshit please.
Speaker 1: I think people deal with me because I'm honestly a
Speaker 1: good friend and I make people laugh. And I know
Speaker 1: women deal with me because I'm known to be very
Speaker 1: good looking. Oh I am constantly so old that I
Speaker 1: should do print modeling. Well there's a reason they said
Speaker 1: print buddy. Um, I'm five one. And on top of that,
Speaker 1: I have been nicknamed the hammer on multiple occasions by
Speaker 1: different women. Mean, what does that mean? A hammer? It
Speaker 1: seems like a jackhammer? Where do you go to hammertown?
Speaker 1: Which I think is just people saying stop sucking you
Speaker 1: so hard? Stop yeah and own and now and now
Speaker 1: get a little rhythm yeah, but flaw. But maybe the
Speaker 1: Hammer is like mc hammer and that when he was
Speaker 1: cool in the nineties. That's what he means. I don't know,
Speaker 1: like mc hammer, like can't touch this. Oh well he
Speaker 1: is kind of in a way. Uh, he goes on.
Speaker 1: I really can't complain about life because I really do
Speaker 1: have a lot going for me. Girls like me for
Speaker 1: my physical appearance, and I also know girls are attracted
Speaker 1: to my genuine down to earth personality more like downer
Speaker 1: to earth personnel, but I think they are unattracted to
Speaker 1: the fact that I am not always happy with myself.
Speaker 1: The women I've met in general are confused why the
Speaker 1: equation doesn't add up, And then he puts the equation
Speaker 1: in parentheses for us handsome plus a big dick plus
Speaker 1: nice equal super confident. Thank you. There's this girl I
Speaker 1: like right now who is still in college. Honestly, I
Speaker 1: really like her. She's probably the most beautiful person I've
Speaker 1: ever seen inside it out. She makes me laugh uncontrollably.
Speaker 1: We have ridiculously amazing sex. We're both super sexual beings.
Speaker 1: I'm scared to tell her how I really feel. I
Speaker 1: say I like you and blah blah blah. But I'm
Speaker 1: not sure she understands to what extent. I haven't known
Speaker 1: her for a long time, but I want to be
Speaker 1: with her. I don't want to figure out that she's
Speaker 1: really just interested in hooking up, because this is the
Speaker 1: one of the few girls in my life i've been
Speaker 1: blown away by. Above all else, I know she really
Speaker 1: can see me. To most women, I'm a dark, mysterious person,
Speaker 1: but this girl knows exactly who I am, and I
Speaker 1: love it. I know I'm going to have to tell
Speaker 1: this person how I feel, and I know I'm going
Speaker 1: to have to get over it if she doesn't feel
Speaker 1: the same. So I guess my question is how do
Speaker 1: I find people that are just genuinely interesting. I'm tired
Speaker 1: of sleeping around and waking up with someone I'm just
Speaker 1: not intellectually in tune with. I'm tired of meeting people
Speaker 1: at bars that I really don't want to hear talk.
Speaker 1: I honestly thought Tinder was the answer for people tired
Speaker 1: of the same thing, but I haven't been amazed by
Speaker 1: the results. No, I mean no app is going to
Speaker 1: be like the thing. It's a joke with my friends
Speaker 1: that I sleep around and I get laid and I laugh,
Speaker 1: and we talk about trying to bang attractive women. But
Speaker 1: deep down, I'm looking for someone that is also tired
Speaker 1: of the bullshit and just can admit everyone sucks. So
Speaker 1: let's get so let's stuck at life together. Well, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of everyone's dream body. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean looking for that I wish. Yeah. I think most
Speaker 1: people think that most people suck, whether or not they
Speaker 1: voiced it or not. You know, Christina sees the good
Speaker 1: pretty much the only one. But I also think people
Speaker 1: suck a lot. I mean because some people really saw
Speaker 1: uh I mean really suck. Yeah, absolutely, but you know,
Speaker 1: even but I see behind beyond that, or I try
Speaker 1: to see beyond that. I think it's difference. But uh
Speaker 1: we well, you gotta your question. I was surprised by
Speaker 1: your question because I thought it was gonna be like,
Speaker 1: how should I tell this girl? I like it? But
Speaker 1: it was how do I surround myself with more interesting people? Dude?
Speaker 1: I'm asking myself the same goddamn questions every day and
Speaker 1: trying to make strides towards that goal every day. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I think this is really This email was interesting because
Speaker 1: it's like he tells us about this rad girl, and
Speaker 1: then and then kind of goes like he shoots himself
Speaker 1: in the foot in the middle of the email. He's like, well,
Speaker 1: that that might not work. So I don't I don't
Speaker 1: know how do I find other people? You already fucking
Speaker 1: found the person. You just told us all about her
Speaker 1: and how much you like her. Yeah, you like her
Speaker 1: a lot. That she sounds rad. Guess what the amazing
Speaker 1: thing is. There's a lot most people you meet are
Speaker 1: shitty and boring. I hate to tell you, but yeah,
Speaker 1: but you only need one, just one person to be
Speaker 1: not sucky. Only one person. And yeah, and when you
Speaker 1: find that one, you still will notice that a lot
Speaker 1: of other people around you sunk. Yeah, so you're sucking.
Speaker 1: This person is amazing, You have great sex, You're intellectually
Speaker 1: stimulated by her. You think she you're blown away by her.
Speaker 1: What are you wasting? That's what I'm writing us the semie.
Speaker 1: That's what you should feel. You should feel blown away
Speaker 1: by somebody enough to ask them out. Tell this girl
Speaker 1: you like her. Yeah, if you're so attractive and the sex,
Speaker 1: senor dick is so big, I don't see the problem.
Speaker 1: She probably likes you back, dude, she likes you back. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean she might not, and if she doesn't, that sucks.
Speaker 1: But then you move on. Then you're like, Wow, a
Speaker 1: sucky situation, in a suck you life filled with sucky people,
Speaker 1: But then you're so grateful for the life, so you
Speaker 1: move on. Hey you got a great dick apparently, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's pretty cool. Also, also in all seriousness, like, we
Speaker 1: live in New York City and we do a lot
Speaker 1: of cool stuff, and Coron and I are comedians and
Speaker 1: we get to meet the raddest people ever and the
Speaker 1: worst people. But every time I go a friend of
Speaker 1: mine who's not a comedian has a birthday party and
Speaker 1: I got and it's at a bar. I hate everyone
Speaker 1: at that bar, but that doesn't change, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. Like, and I usually hate half the people
Speaker 1: at the party too. Sometime it depends rarely though, if
Speaker 1: I been in a bar where I'm not like because
Speaker 1: I don't I don't particularly enjoy drunken people, Like people
Speaker 1: are wasted, wasted strangers, and I don't want to take
Speaker 1: the time to get to know somebody, to get down
Speaker 1: in order to appreciate them, because you know, most people
Speaker 1: stuck on the surface. So uh so, yeah, So that's
Speaker 1: a problem. That's like universal, That's what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 1: And I'm guessing, like I think everyone kind of thinks
Speaker 1: they're hard to love, but like you're pretty not hard
Speaker 1: to love. I'm not harder to love than anybody else.
Speaker 1: Like love, I know everyone's like love is easy when
Speaker 1: you know you know, no, love is hard, Like love
Speaker 1: in the context of a relationship is difficult. Like I
Speaker 1: love twizzlers? Is that easy love? Yes, of course, I
Speaker 1: just need the twizzlers, But like, love is reciprocal, and
Speaker 1: it comes with responsibility and a lot of feelings, which
Speaker 1: we are always very irritating to deal with. You gotta
Speaker 1: be honest about how you feel. Yeah, it's sex compromise,
Speaker 1: that kind of kind of bullshit. You gotta you gotta
Speaker 1: yell at them when they don't put the new toilet
Speaker 1: paper on the actual role and they just rested above
Speaker 1: the empty role and you're like, a fucking serious But
Speaker 1: that's part of love, right, And then there's moments when
Speaker 1: you're like, wow, I if I had a pen, I
Speaker 1: would stab you with it right now. But then you're like, wow,
Speaker 1: I'm so disorganized. I can never find where my pens are.
Speaker 1: Maybe on the problem. Maybe I should stop criticizing others
Speaker 1: and really look within and then that's that's love. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: So and you have this kind of weird mix up
Speaker 1: in your thing of like you think you're difficult to love,
Speaker 1: but then you think you're really attractive and have a
Speaker 1: huge cock, but then you're also great things you're but
Speaker 1: then you're also mysterious and self critical. So it's like,
Speaker 1: what is it you? I think you like yourself just
Speaker 1: as much as everybody else else except for me, I
Speaker 1: like myself a little more than the average person. Well,
Speaker 1: and I think, yeah, from after reading that email, and like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're just you just really get bummed out about bullshitters,
Speaker 1: about small talkers. Yeah, and I get I get that
Speaker 1: you should hang out with Stephen, that's all he yeah,
Speaker 1: he answer, he hates that too. Um, I can get
Speaker 1: past it. But most people don't like that, and it's understandable.
Speaker 1: But you gotta tell this girl, this girl, you're blown
Speaker 1: away by this girl. You fucking go outside of her
Speaker 1: house in the pouring rain. Don't bring a radio because
Speaker 1: any electrocuted, but you know, throw rocks at her windows.
Speaker 1: Some romantic If you're so, if you're so cool, and
Speaker 1: she knows you so much. Do something cool. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: that's personal to her. I feel like sometimes good looking
Speaker 1: people don't put in the work. I know, so put
Speaker 1: it where we have to. So you put in the works,
Speaker 1: do something cool for her, and then she's gonna be
Speaker 1: like good looks good dick and puts in the work.
Speaker 1: Holy sh it. Can't let this one go because also
Speaker 1: sometimes with like women, like we can be and this
Speaker 1: is not like this is not trying to like say
Speaker 1: yes to rape culture. We can be. We can be
Speaker 1: coerced into things like like I think in ways that
Speaker 1: sometimes like a romantic gesture from a woman unfortunately are
Speaker 1: like perceived the wrong way by men. I think, like
Speaker 1: a cool romantic gesture by a guy because we've grown
Speaker 1: up on too many movies, is like that that can
Speaker 1: be what you need to push you over the ed Well,
Speaker 1: the reason why it can push a woman over the
Speaker 1: edges because it's so rare that that you like somebody
Speaker 1: and they're doing there, like they take the time to
Speaker 1: put thought into something sweet and surprising and fun and spontaneous.
Speaker 1: And it's like my first Christmas with Stephen, he gave
Speaker 1: me a suitcase full of popcorn and it was like
Speaker 1: I cried my eyes because it was like a personal thing,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So just like get creative
Speaker 1: and get personal and tell that chick that she makes
Speaker 1: you go crazy in the best way would be really fun. Yeah. Alright, guys,
Speaker 1: our guests today, there are some firsts on this episode. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we do a lot of interesting stuff on this episode.
Speaker 1: I think it's super informative. We talk about HIV and
Speaker 1: AIDS at length. And this is also the fourth edition
Speaker 1: of something that we've done over the years called gay Panel,
Speaker 1: where we just invite okay friends on to chat about
Speaker 1: stuff because we know a lot of interesting people, um
Speaker 1: who aren't famous comedians or comedians in New York City.
Speaker 1: They're just cool people who are doing a lot of
Speaker 1: great work for society that we think you should know. So,
Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Mike frog It and Jim Coo.
Speaker 1: You don't go dream She's so she did to sho
Speaker 1: me sound show that stole me? Well, don't hey? Everybody
Speaker 1: like he and welcome to Gay Piano Pool. This is
Speaker 1: and they right out of the baby. So we are
Speaker 1: here with Mike Froggit and Jim Coo Hello, Hello, Hi, Hi,
Speaker 1: you guys doing good good. I have a little pneumonia. Pneumonia.
Speaker 1: I had a pneumonia vaccine in the vaccine, so, you know,
Speaker 1: pinch of pneumonia, just enough to ruin your weekend. Sorry, okay,
Speaker 1: So Corn, how did you meet these two of the gentlemen? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, they're part of the posse. Yeah, I call
Speaker 1: them the v I g S, which I'm like, I've
Speaker 1: been calling you guys the v I g s for years.
Speaker 1: And I was like, and then I'm like, in this
Speaker 1: PC society that we now live in, I'm like everyone
Speaker 1: secretly offended by that because v i g S stands
Speaker 1: for a very important gays. It didn't stand for like
Speaker 1: very important gargoyles that I know, Like that'd be offensive
Speaker 1: well and also just inaccurate. Yeah, but yeah, it was
Speaker 1: a little offended. And yeah, you guys were kidding. Just
Speaker 1: let it roll off, you Mr Tafflon here. But that's
Speaker 1: why I I like our group of friends, because we
Speaker 1: mess around, like I feel. I feel like my stand
Speaker 1: up comedy career really started in like the depths of
Speaker 1: Posh nightclub in Hell's Kitchen. Well, yeah, and they are
Speaker 1: are gays. I'm an honorary. Yeah, well, oh that's not appropriate.
Speaker 1: You guys can't stay faggot. Okay, I won't say faggot
Speaker 1: an um. So yeah, just so the gay panel. We
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about a lot of things. We're gonna
Speaker 1: bounce back and forth. Jim and Mike are very good friends,
Speaker 1: friends of mine. They are very familiar Christina have Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I met her time in time and grind it up
Speaker 1: against one of 'alls in Posha. Well that was and
Speaker 1: I had to go clean up, you know. Hey, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm a little messy. But there's towels right right, you know,
Speaker 1: and you can just wash them. Yeah, there's no childs
Speaker 1: in Posha, the like where are those things? Then? So Mike,
Speaker 1: talk us a little bit about yourself, your age, where're from?
Speaker 1: Uh coming out story? Yeah, yeah, we don't need we
Speaker 1: don't need all the little stupid details. Thirty two and
Speaker 1: um from outside of Philadelphia, a little town called Coatesville.
Speaker 1: Um with a lot of coats there. Sorry, go ahead,
Speaker 1: slapping the face. That's when it's acceptable to hit. From
Speaker 1: only Christmas, okay, No, And it was it was actually
Speaker 1: an interesting background. I mean, it was a very rural neighborhood,
Speaker 1: but was a neighborhood and my parents were pretty conservative,
Speaker 1: and you know, I didn't really come out until later
Speaker 1: in life. Um, you know, I went to high school.
Speaker 1: I knew I was different, but I didn't really accept it.
Speaker 1: I called it penis envy in my head. I would
Speaker 1: watch porn and just be like, Wow, that guy's a
Speaker 1: nice dick. And then I'd be like, oh, no, it's okay,
Speaker 1: it's just penis. I'm just jealous, steady as a nice dick.
Speaker 1: And I ed to tell myself that I was the dick. Well,
Speaker 1: that's a nice dick, that's that's me, that's my dick.
Speaker 1: That's why I'm focusing on it right exactly because it's
Speaker 1: my penis flipping like like you were inserting yourself into
Speaker 1: the water or touching the penis. I mean, you kids
Speaker 1: will straight point. Back in the day, it wasn't watching
Speaker 1: it was it was literally like magazines that I would
Speaker 1: steal it from my brother, like Hustler, and Hustler was
Speaker 1: the best because blay Boy suck because there was no
Speaker 1: dicks and no dicks, no dicks, and so it's Hustler exact.
Speaker 1: It just hasn't got any more on her table. That's
Speaker 1: why she has that oh perfect. Um yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: you know I used to read the stories and imagine
Speaker 1: myself being because yeah, they were always flash and penis,
Speaker 1: and then you imagine they're getting harder whatever. Um but
Speaker 1: excuse me. Like I go to college and I was
Speaker 1: a little cross tea. I wonder if any of them
Speaker 1: my cross buddies are gonna be listening, that would be funny. Um.
Speaker 1: But you know, I didn't nothing. I didn't do anything.
Speaker 1: It was basically a sexual I was having sex with
Speaker 1: some girls. Like I think my counts up to me ten,
Speaker 1: but that's a lot of girls. You had sex with
Speaker 1: more girls than a lot of string eyes. Yeah you
Speaker 1: really did. Yeah, well it's eleven if you count the
Speaker 1: one that I didn't really want to but that's another story. Um,
Speaker 1: so that's a leader that that happened after I amount anyway.
Speaker 1: Um say, I was like me getting black out drunk
Speaker 1: and trying to fondle a game man. She was way
Speaker 1: too busy going after Dan c. He doesn't exist on
Speaker 1: the Internet. He's like the doesn't he has. He's a
Speaker 1: black hole of person social media. But yeah, we don't
Speaker 1: want to ruin Sully his name. But when you were
Speaker 1: on the cross team, were you like, yo, lacrosse players
Speaker 1: are hot. I mean a little ingle. I've never had
Speaker 1: a problem, um, separating friends and potential sex partners, Like
Speaker 1: in my head, if they're a friend, it's done. Even
Speaker 1: as a kid friend zoned, you know, like completely yeah, Um,
Speaker 1: I never really, I mean except with some girls, which
Speaker 1: is was not good. But that was like experimental, you know,
Speaker 1: like seventeen that's what you're supposed to quota. Yeah, experimental stuff.
Speaker 1: But did you wait, So, when did you actually know
Speaker 1: you as a person that you were gay? Oh? God,
Speaker 1: I don't It's so unclear to me because it was
Speaker 1: just like I think I remember very specifically the first
Speaker 1: time that I wrote it down, and that to me
Speaker 1: is when I call it. That's when I say I
Speaker 1: knew I was gay, because it's like you're write it
Speaker 1: there and you see it on a piece of paper,
Speaker 1: it's it's like, I'm gay. Also, especially if you're convincing
Speaker 1: yourself that it's penis envy in the beginning, denial is
Speaker 1: very powerful and that makes a lot of sense that
Speaker 1: you you were just like, Nope, this is what this
Speaker 1: desire is, and you label it as that, and you
Speaker 1: kind of to a point believe it and until you
Speaker 1: get to a place where you're like, now something's not right. Well,
Speaker 1: if it was like me, you know, you were like
Speaker 1: the whole thought of being gay was terrifying because everyone
Speaker 1: was gonna hate You're gonna lose your family, all your
Speaker 1: friends are gonna hate you. You know, you didn't want
Speaker 1: to come out. You would have no friend What are
Speaker 1: you gonna do? You have no friends? Did you see
Speaker 1: that happen before you came out? Did you see other
Speaker 1: friends get ostracized? Where did you get the idea that
Speaker 1: I also want to point out, Jim is considerably older,
Speaker 1: Jim is fifty four. I was like, I was like,
Speaker 1: I know, you're in your fifties, so you're coming you're
Speaker 1: coming from its coming from Yeah, that's just a whole different. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in the seventies, you didn't even admit that you jacked off.
Speaker 1: The country was again, so that was more like the
Speaker 1: national attitude towards homosexuality. Masturbated, you were a faggot if
Speaker 1: you just masturbated, free one masturbated. We're all sitting at
Speaker 1: home jacking off, but no one like you would never
Speaker 1: tell talk to a friend about masturbation because they like,
Speaker 1: I don't do that. That's gross, fun off. You know. Really,
Speaker 1: it's interesting because I think a lot of the sixties
Speaker 1: and seventies we now look back and like, oh, that
Speaker 1: was like a free time. Everyone seemed free, Like it's
Speaker 1: just like us and vision people like you know, going
Speaker 1: to discos and like doing coke and like having sex
Speaker 1: with everybody. But probably we were. But I was just
Speaker 1: in high school. But wasn't cool masturvation? Was that cool?
Speaker 1: I mean, but that's also in cities. Like Jim and
Speaker 1: I grew up in pretty rural areas from m I'm
Speaker 1: from the Detroit metro area. So we grew up in
Speaker 1: a very small, very racist, racist little town at the time.
Speaker 1: Like they had one black family that ever lived there
Speaker 1: and they were driven out. That's horrible. Yeah, very free
Speaker 1: use of the N word. Oh my god. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I couldn't go back there now. And then I moved
Speaker 1: to like the suburbs where like you know, like Fast
Speaker 1: Times a Ridgement High or Breakfast Club. It was that
Speaker 1: giant Fortress High School that was our high school. And
Speaker 1: so you were in prison. Yeah, when was anybody out
Speaker 1: in your high school? No? Yeah, no, no, never that
Speaker 1: I knew of. I mean, you know, and we even
Speaker 1: though it was like probably two thousand kids in school,
Speaker 1: you would know everyone talk about it and no one
Speaker 1: suspected either of you. You know who knows now? You
Speaker 1: know people like after I came up and be like, oh,
Speaker 1: yeah I need that. So when did you know that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Because well, I mean because neither of you are like
Speaker 1: by just like meeting you were speaking to you are
Speaker 1: like alarms blaring, Oh my god, this is a gay guy.
Speaker 1: I couldn't pinpoint your sexuality upon meeting you, meaning yeah,
Speaker 1: like it's not That's why I'm like, oh, it makes
Speaker 1: sense of a lot of your friends were like, a word,
Speaker 1: how does it? Does it? Does it piss you off? Though?
Speaker 1: Like when you did have that moment when you came
Speaker 1: out and everyone was like or some people were like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah I knew. How does that make you feel?
Speaker 1: It doesn't like honestly, I doesn't bother you? Does it
Speaker 1: not bothering? I think a lot of people put way
Speaker 1: too much emphasis on what other people think. That was
Speaker 1: a little dig at me. Did you hear that he's
Speaker 1: laughing anyway? Um? No, So to me, it was isn't
Speaker 1: like it didn't make me feel good when it came
Speaker 1: out to people and they were like, oh, I had
Speaker 1: no idea, what are you talking about. One person, like
Speaker 1: his wife, Evan told me, was like, wow, I thought
Speaker 1: my husband would be gay before you were. It's like wait,
Speaker 1: what why are you married? Why do you care? Like?
Speaker 1: Why do you care? But if he's married anyway? Um,
Speaker 1: but no, I mean I feel like there's way too
Speaker 1: much kind of pressure to be this hyper masculine and
Speaker 1: that that toxic masculinity now is that people are talking about,
Speaker 1: and and I do, like, you know, being gay is
Speaker 1: actually in many ways stronger than being strict, because it's
Speaker 1: it's harder, like you have to go through what Jim's
Speaker 1: going through and growing up, like I went through the
Speaker 1: same thing, you know, Like in high school, I knew
Speaker 1: at least three or four other gay guys that are
Speaker 1: in the school, and we probably all knew about each other,
Speaker 1: but we were also terrified that we never talked. How
Speaker 1: did you know? Was it a lucky guys gave each other?
Speaker 1: Is it? Look you just see that's the groups of
Speaker 1: friends like they tend to gravitate towards more girl thing.
Speaker 1: Guys like I played, I always played sports in high school,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't like, you know, I never felt comfortable.
Speaker 1: I was also a giant nerd. I would go home
Speaker 1: and play video games, so like that was like steroids.
Speaker 1: Then that wasn't like the stuff for you not me.
Speaker 1: We had called we had I had the elbow and StarCraft.
Speaker 1: But anyway, no, I mean, so that wasn't like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, being part of a team, being part of
Speaker 1: like sports and stuff. It didn't impact me when when
Speaker 1: people would think it if I was gay or not,
Speaker 1: and I don't know, I just it never like I
Speaker 1: don't know, and I guess also being from like a
Speaker 1: conservative family and I finally did come out to them
Speaker 1: at the age of seven after living in New York
Speaker 1: City as a gay man, and for a couple of
Speaker 1: years I didn't I mean, I didn't tell my parents
Speaker 1: right away. I came to New York and I decided
Speaker 1: a year into it, I was like, what the funk
Speaker 1: am I doing? Like why I am in the gay
Speaker 1: capital of the United States right Like we're gonna put
Speaker 1: aside San Francisco right now, but like New York City,
Speaker 1: it's like the best place gay in the US, even
Speaker 1: in the world. It is probably one of the top
Speaker 1: five cities in the world to be gay, and it does.
Speaker 1: No one cares, No one cares, nobody. Everybody's all wrapped
Speaker 1: up in their own ship. And once you figure that out,
Speaker 1: it's like, Oh, I'm just gonna be myself. Now. Have
Speaker 1: you guys still faced any type of discrimination in New
Speaker 1: York City? Because I saw it once. I was actually deaf,
Speaker 1: was with me at a bar and some dude yelled
Speaker 1: faggot at a couple who was at the bar we
Speaker 1: were at, sometimes just repeating what he was thinking or anything.
Speaker 1: It was that bad um. And he came in and
Speaker 1: he was really upset, and I asked him what happened.
Speaker 1: And one of the guys that was in the bar
Speaker 1: that we were at, which it wasn't a gay bar,
Speaker 1: but it was in Hell's kitchen, um, so it might
Speaker 1: as well been, I know. So he told me the
Speaker 1: story and I was like, wow, I know that was
Speaker 1: the only time that I had heard of an instance
Speaker 1: like that, but in New York City. But I've been
Speaker 1: outside New York City and I've definitely had it in
Speaker 1: New York City and it was it was my neighbors.
Speaker 1: I was walking out of my apartment in Park Slow,
Speaker 1: and I lived in a brown stone at the time,
Speaker 1: and the brown and there was no here. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: write the word fancy with like large letters or I
Speaker 1: think you guys have been there, but it was never.
Speaker 1: It wasn't really fancy. It was cute. It was a
Speaker 1: great location. But I was walking out and I just
Speaker 1: the next door there, like, you know, they didn't do anything.
Speaker 1: They were just kind of twenty two years old, maybe
Speaker 1: living with their mom basically, and they just sit out
Speaker 1: on the stoop. No, it's like a couple of guys,
Speaker 1: three guys, and you know, they're just hanging out and
Speaker 1: they do nothing. They're kind of like I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't want to call them dead beats because I
Speaker 1: don't know who they may store or they just bred
Speaker 1: pit bulls anyway, um, which they did, but they and
Speaker 1: they just like as I was walking away, heard them
Speaker 1: kind of sneaker and just say like baggett, don't come back.
Speaker 1: And I looked, I turned around. I was like, I
Speaker 1: fucking live here, dudes, Like I am your neighbor, I
Speaker 1: know your mother, and I will tell Like I didn't
Speaker 1: say all of that, but I was like, I live
Speaker 1: here and and I just walked away because I was like,
Speaker 1: so you didn't actually say anything to them? No, I
Speaker 1: said that he said there here. I was like, for real,
Speaker 1: I live here, and then I walked away and then
Speaker 1: I was like that's and I was really really rattled
Speaker 1: about and I was going to see, you know, at
Speaker 1: the time of my boyfriend, and he kind of like
Speaker 1: pooh pooed it, and I was like, no, this really
Speaker 1: fucking sucked, Like you have to like acknowledge this for me,
Speaker 1: because I'm like really riled up. My heart was pounding,
Speaker 1: and I was like I was ready to punch somebody
Speaker 1: in the face. How do you seen those particular neighbors
Speaker 1: since then, Like was there any awkward encounters? Are they nice?
Speaker 1: Where they kind you after that? Or did they just
Speaker 1: not say anything? I mean they never said anything after that,
Speaker 1: because I think because I can fronted them, yeah, and
Speaker 1: kind of was like they just expected me to just
Speaker 1: walk away like any other prissy bitch, you know, And
Speaker 1: I was like, no, I'm sorry, not in my own home,
Speaker 1: not yet, not at my own home, Like I'm not
Speaker 1: going to feel like a victim. And you don't own
Speaker 1: this place just because you live here, and their mom.
Speaker 1: Did they live with their mom? Was it was like
Speaker 1: it was like they lived with their mom, my mom
Speaker 1: lived with the grandmother, Like okay, it was a family
Speaker 1: family house. Yeah, I mean that's how. That's how most
Speaker 1: of the houses in the neighborhood at the time were okay.
Speaker 1: But I think also just like some people who aren't
Speaker 1: when so you're you're automatic inclination when you're not familiar
Speaker 1: with these people probably don't really know gay people, or
Speaker 1: they do know gay people, but they don't know that
Speaker 1: those people are gay, And so I think, yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that like a lot of times, like the media
Speaker 1: definitely like shows gay people as like meeker or more feminine,
Speaker 1: and so they exactly or like uncle a manly man,
Speaker 1: like a k a. Someone who's gonna beat the fucking
Speaker 1: ship out of you if you talk smack because so much, well,
Speaker 1: because so much of being a man is kind of
Speaker 1: this like I'm gonna bark at you, and if you
Speaker 1: bark louder than I'm gonna back off, that kind of thing,
Speaker 1: like testing each other's masculinity. So very weird. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: it's very confusing. But not to say girls don't do
Speaker 1: the same goddamn thing. With their sexuality. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: they do do it. Yeah they do. Um, So that
Speaker 1: was there more instances Mike that you had experienced, I
Speaker 1: mean being on teams growing up, but not being out
Speaker 1: you here, bag it queer. Everyone's like the insults, that's
Speaker 1: that's like the number one insult still to this thing.
Speaker 1: It's like, you're so gay using it again? Who are
Speaker 1: not homosexual? Who are homosexuals? Or they don't know? But
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, it's just just just the general insult.
Speaker 1: It's like the go to. That's what that was part
Speaker 1: of our vernac. You are in middle school, that's so gay.
Speaker 1: And I didn't even But at the time I didn't
Speaker 1: even because I didn't know anybody that was gay yet
Speaker 1: or did if I did, I didn't realize it. I didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't even equate it as I'm being this is
Speaker 1: like a more of a homophobic way that I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And but I was that smart ass. But it was Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gay. I'm happy it was considered. Okay, I mean
Speaker 1: things about gay people. It will well, that's ultimately what
Speaker 1: we were doing. But I wasn't making the connection in
Speaker 1: my head by saying like that's so gay stacy. I
Speaker 1: wasn't like fucking fag in my head, but that is
Speaker 1: what that means. Like, that is what and I had
Speaker 1: to when I got to high school and the eventually college,
Speaker 1: I really had to like slap myself in the face,
Speaker 1: like mentally for like I had to get myself out
Speaker 1: of that habit of saying that. But I mean like
Speaker 1: a huge piece of ship. I mean, but that's part
Speaker 1: of that's part of growing up, totally figuring out what's
Speaker 1: right and what's wrong because you're so environment When I
Speaker 1: got to college, though, there was gay guys. I was.
Speaker 1: I was in a show choir. Surprised. Yeah, mccomber's jazz
Speaker 1: show ensemble, and we had gay guys and they were
Speaker 1: able to be gay. What about your parents accepting and well,
Speaker 1: you have an interesting story coming out. I can't hear
Speaker 1: told you. I mean, so I told my parents the
Speaker 1: weekend that one of my best friends got married and
Speaker 1: I was home just for that week. Okay, this would
Speaker 1: be perfect and I'm home for straight love. And then
Speaker 1: and then my other best friend was there and she
Speaker 1: was actually in the house, like she stayed over. She
Speaker 1: got sick. So it's like we're cleaning up after she
Speaker 1: got sick in the house and I'm sitting there and
Speaker 1: and I'm really hungover, like ridiculously hungover, and I'm sitting
Speaker 1: there on the couch and I'm like, Mom, well, I'm
Speaker 1: literally shaking. Oh you told her you're gay while you're hungover.
Speaker 1: But I was like determined to do it before I
Speaker 1: came back to New York. Stop being hungover. Work sucked,
Speaker 1: and so I'm like, mom, Mom, I'm gay. And she
Speaker 1: just looked at me and she was like, oh, okay.
Speaker 1: And then for some reason, I still don't know and
Speaker 1: she hasn't explained it to me, and I hope to
Speaker 1: god she never listens to this, because it's kind of embarrassing.
Speaker 1: She listens to guys all the time. She told me
Speaker 1: like her first kind of way to actualize it in
Speaker 1: her head. And I'm a very strong believer of allowing
Speaker 1: people to have their own reactions um and especially coming out,
Speaker 1: because they all have their own expectations and thoughts about
Speaker 1: and they can come around, and they can come around.
Speaker 1: Her first thing that she said was, well, you know, oh,
Speaker 1: so and so in the family was a pedophile, And
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, that's the same thing. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was like what. I was like, no, Mom, no, that's
Speaker 1: not things like information or can I just with the family. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, well she oh that's what your
Speaker 1: mom's actually just necessarily private information. My dad was much
Speaker 1: more I would say, measured. Now, what what was your
Speaker 1: response after your mom compared homosexuality to pedophile? You know,
Speaker 1: I was like, Mom, I'm not attracted to boys in
Speaker 1: any way, shape or form. Like no, she actually making
Speaker 1: this saying I don't say that parallel trying to comfortable
Speaker 1: to me, it seems like she was digesting it, as in,
Speaker 1: this was not you are you like your pedophile relative
Speaker 1: was following something that is more of a sexual Well,
Speaker 1: I mean we're under the belief that you're always a pedophile,
Speaker 1: just not always acting on it. I mean, because we
Speaker 1: kind of talked about it before, like it's a mental distorder.
Speaker 1: So it's like you're like, like, so it's like an alcoholic,
Speaker 1: Like you can stop drinking, but you still if you
Speaker 1: had a drink, would still like go off. Course, that's
Speaker 1: how I think about it. That that's not backed up
Speaker 1: medically at all. This is just my own personal thoughts
Speaker 1: on it. But I mean I think she was just
Speaker 1: kind of saying like, okay, well I've digested a family
Speaker 1: member being like like it's like a sexual taboo almost.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think homosexuality right now is like certainly
Speaker 1: more so in my opinion, so accepted that it's not
Speaker 1: a taboo, but some people, I think it's still it.
Speaker 1: To some people it is. I forget about it until
Speaker 1: I read stories about someone in and that's why that's
Speaker 1: why I prefaced it with like, I'm a strong believer
Speaker 1: and allowing you when I have their own reaction, and
Speaker 1: that's good. Yeah, it just doesn't feel good because I mean,
Speaker 1: the first person I told it was horrible. Who did
Speaker 1: you tell? First? I told her a friend from grad
Speaker 1: school and a male? No, a girl? Really did the
Speaker 1: girl like you? Yeah was your girlfriend? Okay, no, we
Speaker 1: were just friends, but yeah. She ended up bawling uncontrollably
Speaker 1: for like she we were really drinking. And then I
Speaker 1: flipped out on it. And I feel bad because I
Speaker 1: flipped out on her and I was like, who do
Speaker 1: you think you are? This shouldn't be about you, but
Speaker 1: not wrong, but it's like no, But that's part of
Speaker 1: how I came to this conclusion that yes, I have
Speaker 1: my expectations of what they expect of what they what
Speaker 1: I want, how I want them to react. They also,
Speaker 1: you know, have expectations of their relationship with me, whether
Speaker 1: it's a friend, whether it's a family member, you know,
Speaker 1: like and so very noble and so you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: it doesn't it doesn't always work. My head usually gets
Speaker 1: out ahead of my brain, but your head my mouth.
Speaker 1: I was going to say the other head like no, um,
Speaker 1: I cried. The first couple of times I told people, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm very upset. You were you were upset? And why
Speaker 1: were you upset? Well, because what was gonna I didn't
Speaker 1: know what was gonna happened? It was yeah yeah. And
Speaker 1: then they were just like, oh, okay, why are you
Speaker 1: so upset? And then after yeah, stop crying, you have
Speaker 1: a beer. Yeah. My friends know me really well. But
Speaker 1: you know, after that, after that happened a couple times
Speaker 1: like oh so that I have a toke. Um. But
Speaker 1: then I was just like, oh, by the way, just
Speaker 1: so you know, I'm gay. Yeah, you know, after that,
Speaker 1: after that first few a few times, a couple of times,
Speaker 1: and when I ment him, it was like the third
Speaker 1: sentence out of your mouth, it was like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: I'm Jim Coo. I'm that entry I'm gay. And I
Speaker 1: was like, because we worked together at my first job
Speaker 1: out of grad school, did you know? Did you tell?
Speaker 1: Did you Was that one of the first items of
Speaker 1: information you gave to Mike because you knew he was
Speaker 1: gay as well, or just because you like that out there?
Speaker 1: I would give it to most people when I met
Speaker 1: them up. Yeah, I would just mention it and just
Speaker 1: to get it out there, and because then, oh, do
Speaker 1: you have a girlfriend, then it's awkward. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: that right, right, So it's just better to just in
Speaker 1: first your first conversation, you would just kind of insert
Speaker 1: I'm gay somewhere, but now, what do you want thoughts?
Speaker 1: I always think it's unfair that gay you have people
Speaker 1: have to come out and every day, but every day,
Speaker 1: And it seems like our group of friends is like
Speaker 1: very uh into coming out and and you know, we've
Speaker 1: had some friends who yeah, well I mean I know
Speaker 1: we've had some friends who it's it's taken them years,
Speaker 1: like into their forties to come out of the closet,
Speaker 1: and we've like seems as a group we've always been
Speaker 1: encouraging them along the way. I could take their y.
Speaker 1: I just dreamed that he does. Um, so what are
Speaker 1: your what are your thoughts on that and the whole
Speaker 1: coming out process and society's expectations that gay people should
Speaker 1: come out. I mean I equate it to like I
Speaker 1: remember watching Harvey Milk that yeah, the movie Milk, and
Speaker 1: you know, it was really the first exposure I'd had
Speaker 1: to him. And there's a scene in that movie where
Speaker 1: he about coming out as powerful, empowering, and every person
Speaker 1: that comes out will change the mind of a family
Speaker 1: member or a close friend that could be or they
Speaker 1: just won't use the word faggot when you're visiting town.
Speaker 1: You can use the word when I'm not there. But
Speaker 1: you know, I mean that's all I'm saying. Sometimes yeah,
Speaker 1: they're gonna you're gonna change your mind. And then sometimes
Speaker 1: they're just going that's you'll eliminate their homophobia when you're
Speaker 1: in the room with them. But even that, I mean,
Speaker 1: there's there's a little bit of power in that too,
Speaker 1: taking that back. And I mean that's kind of how
Speaker 1: I look at it, And you know, I've had to
Speaker 1: do it at work, Like bosses will be like, oh,
Speaker 1: are you going over Christmas? You're taking a girlfriend no,
Speaker 1: I'm not your boss's business. Anyone, it's not their business.
Speaker 1: But I'm not gonna sit there, and you know I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna like just pooh pooh it. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: this is part of who I am. You hired me
Speaker 1: as a complete person, and for me to be at work,
Speaker 1: I need to be out at work and you need
Speaker 1: to accept it because I'm not. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: sit there. I can't produce my best work if I'm
Speaker 1: sitting there worrying about what so and so, thanks if
Speaker 1: they think I'm gay or like I needed to be
Speaker 1: out front. I needed to be in the open and
Speaker 1: not talked about. But it has to be like okay,
Speaker 1: Like it can't be in their head right because if
Speaker 1: if it's a speculation, it's like people don't drop it
Speaker 1: until they figure it out. And they did, and for
Speaker 1: whatever reason, everyone is so fucking obsessed with knowing people's orientation.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, they're they're sex. Well I felt bad. There
Speaker 1: was that some athlete that came out recently and I
Speaker 1: was just reading the you know that the newspapers and
Speaker 1: they need to like there's paper, are just the hustler
Speaker 1: right over there, And I didn't even where do you
Speaker 1: even get that you have to because we're in it.
Speaker 1: And then there's a box of them if you want.
Speaker 1: You know, I have a bird the Little Russian Ladies
Speaker 1: in my building with it. But I felt bad for
Speaker 1: her because she was like, she's famous and she came
Speaker 1: out and now she's the same person, but somehow she's
Speaker 1: different to everybody and she has to be like why
Speaker 1: does she have to come out? Well? Is the point? Absolutely? Mean,
Speaker 1: I think. So there was an interview with Aubrey Plaza
Speaker 1: where she The headline of the article that I read
Speaker 1: was Aubrey Plaza comes out as bisexual. But what actually
Speaker 1: happened was in an interview, she just happened to mention
Speaker 1: that she likes both men and women. That she wasn't
Speaker 1: coming out and the media portrayed as this thing and
Speaker 1: she was making she had written her challenger like August
Speaker 1: and it's like, stop sensationalizing that, like the media and
Speaker 1: television and film and it's just society in general. It's
Speaker 1: just like, that's how an example of how they handle
Speaker 1: other people's sexuality is such bullshit. And I mean, the
Speaker 1: unsaid part of that is because it sells because people
Speaker 1: fill in the blanks. They start immediately thinking about sex
Speaker 1: because sex fucking cells. Yeah, and it's yeah, yeah, it does.
Speaker 1: I wish it didn't, but I'm also glad it does
Speaker 1: because his podcast doing pretty well. Celically. I'm happy this
Speaker 1: is one of those instances, and I'm really proud of
Speaker 1: you created like knowing you for so long and seeing
Speaker 1: you kind of grow as this person and paid for
Speaker 1: so many drinks. I probably got off light as composed
Speaker 1: to some of our friends, but I definitely got at
Speaker 1: least a couple of rounds of shots, a couple of
Speaker 1: cossodas with Cranberry from Rocket. But um, no, like it was,
Speaker 1: you know, I seeing you kind of growing. Sure, right,
Speaker 1: what was that first one when you're it was like
Speaker 1: the start of sorry about last late night? You're like
Speaker 1: one woman show back at Yeah, I stalk you that.
Speaker 1: I felt like that was kind of the nugget of
Speaker 1: the nugget of just talking about weird stuff and publicly,
Speaker 1: and then it progressed well, speaking of comedy, I think
Speaker 1: it's interesting because you guys kind of mentioned a couple
Speaker 1: of times already in the course of the interview, like
Speaker 1: the use of the word faggot, and this is something
Speaker 1: we've talked about with David Krab who actually directed that show. Um,
Speaker 1: because I know what we use. Comedians, Uh, definitely are
Speaker 1: like very pro like using every word and certainly not
Speaker 1: in a hateful way. Like I never have called a
Speaker 1: gay person a faggot, but I definitely am gonna come
Speaker 1: out and be like, yes, I have used faggot as
Speaker 1: a word in comedy. Louis c. K has a great
Speaker 1: bit about the word fagot. I don't know if you've
Speaker 1: heard it, um and just using it, so like, what
Speaker 1: are your feelings because I know sometimes like I've talked
Speaker 1: to Tommy about this as well, like like using the
Speaker 1: word faggot not talking about gay people, are you totally
Speaker 1: against it? Or it depends on how it's used, And
Speaker 1: it depends on that. For me, it depends on the
Speaker 1: tone of voice that the person. You. You know, if
Speaker 1: you're using it during a comedy, you think that's fine,
Speaker 1: there is and I'll probably end up laughing. But if
Speaker 1: someone's like, it's a fat get there, I think you know,
Speaker 1: I think, I don't know. One time I was at
Speaker 1: your Nacho Bitches show and I think, Um, she has
Speaker 1: a bit that uses the word thing and she said
Speaker 1: it with this like sneer once and I kind of
Speaker 1: that for some reason got to me, and I don't
Speaker 1: know why, but it's like just I guess because I
Speaker 1: have heard it negatively in New York and I know that.
Speaker 1: And we used to have a luau in Ohio and yeah,
Speaker 1: and it was in Ohio because I mean we'd like
Speaker 1: bury the pig and do the whole thing, and the
Speaker 1: pig was great, but um then it would just be
Speaker 1: this huge party, you know, and they would have a
Speaker 1: DJ and we would just get you know, just sloppy drunk,
Speaker 1: and everyone have a hag the next day. And I'm
Speaker 1: sitting there kind of like, you know, wasted, and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, the DJ is like something about, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's get rid of those faggots. Yeah, he was like,
Speaker 1: because he didn't know that I was gay, and I
Speaker 1: was like, I mean, from like drunkenness, I was like,
Speaker 1: what what what it's like slapping you right in the
Speaker 1: face and you're it's such a buzz kill. And then
Speaker 1: I mean my cousins of course jumped up and ran Adams,
Speaker 1: you cannot talk like that here, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: well that's good. And he was very awkward for the
Speaker 1: next every time. Well, I couldn't have hit anything at
Speaker 1: that point. Yeah, that's one of the four of you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're in the middle. I'm gonna pizza. Is that a beer?
Speaker 1: Yeah that's interesting because I mean I think, yeah, and
Speaker 1: I listen to this podcast and I'm sure she'll be
Speaker 1: very like concerned about what part of her act that is.
Speaker 1: Remember that she's super she's super LGBT. Yeah, I know,
Speaker 1: you know that. Yeah, And it wasn't like it just
Speaker 1: and it wasn't as if I was taking her as
Speaker 1: attacking me. ORSBT people in general are gaze. It's just
Speaker 1: like I heard it and in my head it was like,
Speaker 1: you know, like yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, the PTSD, I
Speaker 1: think a little bit it Like, I mean, it's weird
Speaker 1: because like when I've talked about before, when I I
Speaker 1: remember I don't even know what comedian it was, but
Speaker 1: they were joking about, uh something about a mom with depression,
Speaker 1: but they were like kind of calling her week and stuff,
Speaker 1: and that My personal experience is like my mom is
Speaker 1: a precious gem and she is wonderful and no one
Speaker 1: gets anything bad about her. She has depression. Growing up,
Speaker 1: it affected me and I remember hearing a bit about
Speaker 1: it and getting going, oh fuck that dude in my head.
Speaker 1: And then I was like, obviously we're at a comedy club.
Speaker 1: And I knew it's okay if I get offended because
Speaker 1: I know he wasn't talking about me personally, he doesn't
Speaker 1: know my situation is still piss me off. And then
Speaker 1: I just kind of left it at that, like because
Speaker 1: it was at a comedy cluck, I hold nothing against Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a comic show. I hold like, didn't even
Speaker 1: take want to talk about like, I think it's interesting, yeah,
Speaker 1: like a little flicker of something to know, like how
Speaker 1: words make people feel, because I think like as young
Speaker 1: people were so often taught you know, sticks and stones
Speaker 1: will break your bones, but words will never hurt. And
Speaker 1: then you grow and you realize the words, the words
Speaker 1: hurt more than the sticks and the stones. Like the
Speaker 1: humans are super resilient creatures, but but emotionally we're very
Speaker 1: tend Dude. I'd rather you be drumming on my femur
Speaker 1: bone than calling me names that I've been called. Yeah, maybe, um,
Speaker 1: I think we should take a momentary. Um, okay, blacks
Speaker 1: and I want to topic And I was and I
Speaker 1: was gonna say just you know, to close up that point.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times too, like I know,
Speaker 1: me as a as a comedian, a lot of times
Speaker 1: I'm working out things on stage. And I don't mean
Speaker 1: I'm just working out bits on stage. I mean I'm
Speaker 1: working out like my own emotional issues and sometimes things
Speaker 1: come out of my mouth and I and I and
Speaker 1: I just go funk. That's not the way that I
Speaker 1: wanted to word that, or that's not the way that
Speaker 1: I wanted people to like feel to feed people this
Speaker 1: thought that I had, But that's just the way that
Speaker 1: that's when I'm laughing, yeah, like that, it's not what
Speaker 1: I meant, and I know people are interpreting it, but
Speaker 1: it's like that's your one shot, and you kind of
Speaker 1: like on stage you have to keep control of the
Speaker 1: ship a little bit. It's just interesting because I want
Speaker 1: to be like sensitive. I never want to be like
Speaker 1: using words that make especially my friends feel bad. But
Speaker 1: also I think, just as a comedian is really important
Speaker 1: to not tiptoe around things like it's a weird Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's weird, it's a weird area, but also like it's
Speaker 1: it's importantly like we I mean, I say anyway like sensitive,
Speaker 1: But it's also important for me as a person. I
Speaker 1: want to know how words make people feel, because you're
Speaker 1: not making it up, you know what I mean. Like
Speaker 1: it's important to know because that that just makes you
Speaker 1: be more mindful and aware. And a comedy show is
Speaker 1: you want people to feel. You want people to come
Speaker 1: and do a how many show and then leave feeling
Speaker 1: better than not work. And that doesn't always happen. By
Speaker 1: does that not always? I'm sure you guys have experienced
Speaker 1: many times when you're like, wow, this commit forgot her name,
Speaker 1: but she used to do comedy sets and Jim come
Speaker 1: and see it. Like I went a few times, and
Speaker 1: I was just like, as long as it's not improv
Speaker 1: you get three people who are yeah, just get three
Speaker 1: people are really good, and then there's a few people
Speaker 1: that you're just like just like crickets. Yeah, and you
Speaker 1: feel bad for them. Yeah. Yeah, you know I've done
Speaker 1: comedy that makes me feel worse. So I totally understand.
Speaker 1: And I think back, like, you know, I think if
Speaker 1: it had been delivered in more of like less of
Speaker 1: a sneery way, a little bit more of a jovial way,
Speaker 1: like I think it means it means a lot changes
Speaker 1: so much. Yeah, it's all the comedians listening, so we're
Speaker 1: gonna stay sagging joyfully. We're going to do something that
Speaker 1: we've never done before on the podcast. I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's been done, and that is ever in history,
Speaker 1: ever public. Karn, Mike, and myself are about to take
Speaker 1: an h V test. It's test. Jim's not taking one
Speaker 1: because he's he's just that's coughing. Isn't going to take one,
Speaker 1: doesn't I'm already pneumonia. It's fun the vaccine guys. So okay, Well,
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting to point out that Christina was right.
Speaker 1: I thought she had to prick her finger to speak
Speaker 1: the test, and I think that's interesting to know. And
Speaker 1: I go, well, I'm pretty sure it's going to be
Speaker 1: a mouth swill. But that's just because I have a
Speaker 1: ton of gay friends, so I've this has been discussed
Speaker 1: over brunch many times, where if it makes you feel
Speaker 1: about let's let's take them and then we'll talk more
Speaker 1: about them. Because I want to have the I want
Speaker 1: to make sure we have enough time to reveal if
Speaker 1: one of us has HIV because I have had sexual
Speaker 1: partners since the last time I've been tested. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's part of being a responsible sexually so I have
Speaker 1: to read the directions on how to do this. So
Speaker 1: we're taking the swab out and then what are we doing?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, do you so? Do you know? Mike? Do
Speaker 1: you know? Can you walk us? I've only done it once?
Speaker 1: Uh And just so anybody on listening knows. I think
Speaker 1: there's like a website, free HIV test dot com where
Speaker 1: you can get a free version of this and it
Speaker 1: comes in like a really great box. It's like perfect presentation.
Speaker 1: I don't know. And I was like a commemorative box
Speaker 1: you found out you had HIV. I mean there was
Speaker 1: they had ads on Grinder, which is a gay hook
Speaker 1: up app. Um, they had ads on Grinder for it,
Speaker 1: and I mean our friend Grant kind of pushed us
Speaker 1: to get it and I got it, and you know,
Speaker 1: I mean I just the first time I did one
Speaker 1: of these, I was sitting alone in my living room. Um,
Speaker 1: and I don't know, it's it's it's part of it.
Speaker 1: It's part of being sexually active and RESPONSI okay, so
Speaker 1: there's three parts. There is a little baggy of powder.
Speaker 1: Oh that's just like the way is this anything is
Speaker 1: it's like, never mind keeping it fresh. Keep that. Let's
Speaker 1: basically take a device, swab it around upper gums, so
Speaker 1: this tip the whole way, okay for a certain amount
Speaker 1: of time or just once, and then the bottom a
Speaker 1: good sweep. So we're gonna do the top in the
Speaker 1: bottom because HIV can be detected through saliva. But you
Speaker 1: did not know, but there was a misconception for a
Speaker 1: lot of times that you could get HIV from French
Speaker 1: kissing someone. You can't. It's only if they have an
Speaker 1: open wound in their mouth, right, and then stop making
Speaker 1: out with people, like your own saliva protects you, like
Speaker 1: your own saliva access like a barrier. And then after
Speaker 1: we do that, after we put it at once, and
Speaker 1: then what do we do you insert the device into
Speaker 1: the test tube. Okay, so we have to take the
Speaker 1: top off this test tube. Yeah, yes, now there's not
Speaker 1: break it off. It's just there's not a lot of
Speaker 1: liquid in this test tube. You want to read it for,
Speaker 1: there's not in any of this because it's like it's
Speaker 1: like a little bit yeah. Uh, this is a bunch
Speaker 1: of people, adults taking I mean, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: anxiety with this anything dude, I am anxiously. Yeah, if
Speaker 1: I have HIV, I'm just gonna be like, wow, James,
Speaker 1: thanks for giving me HIV. I got tested right before.
Speaker 1: Who gave the HIV. There's only a couple of people.
Speaker 1: I feel like you wouldn't know by it. But every
Speaker 1: time I've been to the hospital, like the rs that,
Speaker 1: they always ask, well, well she would I mean wouldn't
Speaker 1: well wouldn't uh OKAV and AIDS are different things, though,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm saying, but wouldn't. Like she's been with
Speaker 1: the same person for five years, so the HIV probably
Speaker 1: would have come from someone five and a half years ago.
Speaker 1: So we've been show up one way around on top
Speaker 1: of your mouth and then put it inside this HIV
Speaker 1: anybody's from oral fluid are collected through the swab two.
Speaker 1: Once the device is inserted into the test tube, the
Speaker 1: oral fluid mixes with the liquid and travels up the
Speaker 1: test stick. So we are at the swabbing car and
Speaker 1: we are all inserting. But it's not the sexy. There's
Speaker 1: no grounds. There's no grounds. If the sea line turns dark,
Speaker 1: it confirms the test is working properly. If no sea
Speaker 1: line appears, the test is not working. If only sea
Speaker 1: line appears, the test is negative, Okay, but if how
Speaker 1: do I know if I if the test is positive,
Speaker 1: the T line will show up. Yeah, but it takes
Speaker 1: a while. It's like you can't watch, So we're not
Speaker 1: gonna watch. So we're just gonna let these HIV tests
Speaker 1: sit here, simmer try to pretend life. So we're Mike
Speaker 1: suggested that we take this because Jim and Mike are
Speaker 1: both Uh, you guys do a lot of volunteer work,
Speaker 1: and you do a great bike ride every year for
Speaker 1: Breaking AIDS, which is to benefit Housing Works. Housing Works.
Speaker 1: So a little bit about that. Why I decided to
Speaker 1: do it? What you do all that kind of jazz
Speaker 1: um the only I you know, it's not even it's
Speaker 1: not even noble. The reason I like a friend of
Speaker 1: mine and we were sitting at work and he came
Speaker 1: up and through the flyer on the desk and said
Speaker 1: you should try this. You like riding your bike, and
Speaker 1: that was exactly right. And I said, well, you know,
Speaker 1: because there's you have to raise money by blah blah.
Speaker 1: And I said, well, I can't ask Butcher Patricia's and
Speaker 1: my boss, you know, if they'll sponsor you and I
Speaker 1: get this little meeting when I have to have a
Speaker 1: meeting with you, you know. So then they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, everyone's a little nervous. Jim's hands wants to
Speaker 1: have a meeting, and they said, well, I gotta do this.
Speaker 1: It was called breaking the Cycle. Then I want to
Speaker 1: do this ride from Boston to New York, you know,
Speaker 1: helps the LGBT Center. My she looks at pictures. Yes,
Speaker 1: and that was the end of the meeting. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: thence you do it. It's so life changing. And that
Speaker 1: first year I hoped kind of train and fundraising a
Speaker 1: little bit, yeah, because it's no joke. How long is
Speaker 1: the actual ride three days? Three days and usually goes
Speaker 1: a little bit because they have detours and stuff, so
Speaker 1: ends up being more like, yeah, and you have to
Speaker 1: raise a lot of money before you go on the
Speaker 1: bike ride. There's a minimum, but we all have different goals.
Speaker 1: This year, I'm very short of my goals. So if
Speaker 1: anybody yea at the end for that, absolutely, I want
Speaker 1: you guys to donate. If you're listening and you have
Speaker 1: the means, will tell you how and where to do that.
Speaker 1: At the end of the episode, the ride is supposed
Speaker 1: to be what it's like to have AIDS, HIV AIDS
Speaker 1: and and UM analogous I guess the word would be,
Speaker 1: and how tough it can be. And it's a very tough.
Speaker 1: I mean it's tough for me. It's sounds tough for
Speaker 1: me because there's a lot of hills, a lot of
Speaker 1: really tough hills, and you just get worn out and
Speaker 1: you're just you're tired and your body aches and you
Speaker 1: you know, you gotta keep going because you gotta finish
Speaker 1: the day. But then, and that's supposed to be like that,
Speaker 1: You're supposed to get the idea of what it's like
Speaker 1: to live with HIV AIDS. And I think the biggest
Speaker 1: part of it is, you know, like Jim, I just
Speaker 1: kind of signed up the year after he did it
Speaker 1: because he signed up again and I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I could do this. And I had a couple of
Speaker 1: beers at the center after a couple after the closing party,
Speaker 1: friend they got me UM and they signed me up
Speaker 1: that day, and I you know, there's what Jim talked about,
Speaker 1: the struggle of it. UM gives you a little taste
Speaker 1: of what it's like living with HIV. Like I'm sure
Speaker 1: it's a very little, a little little too. Um. You
Speaker 1: can go away and go back to your house like
Speaker 1: I don't, because you can also say, you know it,
Speaker 1: thumbs down to the van and they pick you up
Speaker 1: and take you to the next But the right itself,
Speaker 1: I would say was transformative. It was surrounded by love.
Speaker 1: You're surrounded by It was the first time in my life,
Speaker 1: honestly that I can say that I was with a
Speaker 1: group of people that were all working towards a noble goal.
Speaker 1: That's nice and all together and you know, everyone does.
Speaker 1: Everyone plays an important role, very important. People who make
Speaker 1: sure you're in the right band, people who make sure
Speaker 1: you have your fluids, make people make sure you have
Speaker 1: and they take you ride up on the bike into
Speaker 1: the oasis and they take your bottles away. What did
Speaker 1: you say, gatorade? And I was like, off on you
Speaker 1: as you ride. It's very motivated. I mean that would
Speaker 1: make me want to even more, me too, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I think there will be a lot
Speaker 1: more participant. I know the times that I've marched in
Speaker 1: the Gay Pripari with Krin and Grant and everyone. Uh,
Speaker 1: it is the happiest day of the entire year for me,
Speaker 1: just because of the love and it's the most loving
Speaker 1: day I've ever experienced in my life. So I mentioned
Speaker 1: that three days times, like I don't know that sounds
Speaker 1: it really is a transformative experience to the point where
Speaker 1: you know you're with this crew, two people that are
Speaker 1: changing the world. Yeah, like you know everything from part
Speaker 1: of I think my yeah, well you're actually getting off
Speaker 1: of your ass literally and doing something to help the problem,
Speaker 1: not just go ah that sucks, right, and that feels good.
Speaker 1: And that's why I wanted to talk to you guys
Speaker 1: you know today because I think Christine and I talk
Speaker 1: a lot about like getting up and doing something, because
Speaker 1: we live in an age where we like think retweeting
Speaker 1: uh somebody's tweet or like updating a Facebook status is
Speaker 1: actually promoting active change in the world. And it's not
Speaker 1: maybe if you're a celebrity retweeting something that can gain
Speaker 1: awareness for a certain cause, but really, like there's you
Speaker 1: have to get up and do things. Also, I would
Speaker 1: like to point out to just in the same like spirit,
Speaker 1: the A L. S Ice bucket challenge like that got
Speaker 1: criticized by some people and myself included. I was like,
Speaker 1: what is that can do? But then they raised they
Speaker 1: raised more money for a l S research than they
Speaker 1: ever have in the history of like doing. There was
Speaker 1: a breakthrough, right, so and the awareness to the money
Speaker 1: because money can help. So like if you if you
Speaker 1: are wealthy and you don't want to get up off
Speaker 1: your ask, you don't have to. You can just definitely
Speaker 1: do you just put in your credit card number. And
Speaker 1: that's great, it's good too, But a lot of young
Speaker 1: people are not in a place where they can really
Speaker 1: help out financially. So I think it's great, you know,
Speaker 1: start out actively and then you can get old and
Speaker 1: rich and lazy and just give your money to other
Speaker 1: young people. Yeah, there's there's a piece of that, but
Speaker 1: I think also young people, there's momentum and and a
Speaker 1: lot of young people donating to three, four or five
Speaker 1: dollars makes a huge difference, you know. I think, what
Speaker 1: is it that people on the side of the road
Speaker 1: as you're writing and they watch you, you know, and
Speaker 1: you and you raise awareness. That's why our team is
Speaker 1: called the flying Goats, and and part of the people
Speaker 1: like what is a flying goat? And then that's the
Speaker 1: opening to say, well, I you know, do this ride
Speaker 1: from Boston to New York we're raising awareness about HIV
Speaker 1: AIDS oh Shore. You go from Boston and New York,
Speaker 1: Rhode Island is very hilly. Everyone everyone, Rhode Island has
Speaker 1: a lot of big hills. Don't think it's flat, it's
Speaker 1: very hilly, hilly, and don't think you can ride through
Speaker 1: an incredible Can you remind everybody the name of this
Speaker 1: organization's four Housing Works. The ride is called the Breaking
Speaker 1: Aids Ride, the Breaking Aids Working and it's breaking spelled
Speaker 1: like a bike break, So b r a k AIDS.
Speaker 1: It's one and then ride and it supports, it supports
Speaker 1: Housing Works and their mission statement. I'm probably gonna suck
Speaker 1: it up and Mika is going to call me, but
Speaker 1: it's a it's it's a healing community of people living
Speaker 1: with and affected by HIV and AIDS attempting to enact
Speaker 1: change and a great second destigmatization. And that's that's Margaret
Speaker 1: trop store at Housing Works a lot. They provide life
Speaker 1: saving uh medical health care, housing, housing, job training. Everybody
Speaker 1: that works awareness in the thrift stores has been through
Speaker 1: the job training program. Yeah, so Housing Works. If you
Speaker 1: don't know, if you don't live in New York City,
Speaker 1: it is an amazing thrift thrift story, a secondhand store.
Speaker 1: They have the most beautiful pieces. And a lot of
Speaker 1: New Yorkers who have beautiful furniture or paintings or even
Speaker 1: if they're pricing will donate them to Housing Works and
Speaker 1: they'll sell them for like a pretty fair price. And
Speaker 1: uh and all that money goes towards research. Uh No,
Speaker 1: so Housing Works doesn't do any research specifically. They they
Speaker 1: advocate for research funds from the Department of Health. But
Speaker 1: and they also so they advocate on the local, uh, state, national,
Speaker 1: and international level. Um they work with you know, um
Speaker 1: Cuomo are illustrious governor he uh you know recently he
Speaker 1: announced his uh you know, end AIDS by initiative. Basically
Speaker 1: a group of HIV AIDS organizations wrote that for him.
Speaker 1: All he had to do pretty much sign this is
Speaker 1: what we're doing. Well a lot of times, like with
Speaker 1: politicians like you just you have to organize and re
Speaker 1: do your research. They don't want to do the work.
Speaker 1: Give them the thing, give them the platform of what
Speaker 1: to say and they'll know. Plus you have to keep
Speaker 1: after them because they can say politician, yeah, we'll say
Speaker 1: oh yeah, well we have that money yourmark and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the money's gone, and so Housing
Speaker 1: Works literally will bust people to Albany. That's amazing. We'll
Speaker 1: sit outside the governor's mansion, outside of the Capitol building.
Speaker 1: Has been arrested, hassle people, they protest, They've protested outside
Speaker 1: of the UN They're now on the UN AIDS council.
Speaker 1: Charles has amazing council. They work in Haiti, which has
Speaker 1: the highest rate of HIV infection in the Western world.
Speaker 1: Um and you know, I mean it's unfortunate, but Housing
Speaker 1: Works works in the communities that are most impacted by
Speaker 1: this virus. That's amazing. And it's and I think that's
Speaker 1: important to distinguish because it is a virus and it's
Speaker 1: not a condition. Like it's a condition, but it's not
Speaker 1: like anything that can't be treated. It's not anything that
Speaker 1: can be you know, wished away. It's a virus and
Speaker 1: we have tools now. People who have it aren't bad,
Speaker 1: they're not they're no different tegmatization. It's like, it's not
Speaker 1: it's not a death sentence to have as a I
Speaker 1: h test away from me so that no one could
Speaker 1: see it. Just in case v who all learned together,
Speaker 1: all nervous it's I mean, and this is part of it, right,
Speaker 1: Like the first is to get people who don't who
Speaker 1: don't get tested, you know, get them the awareness to
Speaker 1: get tested and free HIV. What's the website to get
Speaker 1: a friend? One on the subway? Find it description the
Speaker 1: time we got this off of Amazon. The way the
Speaker 1: internet is, you could just type in free HIV tests
Speaker 1: and something that's going to pop up. If Amazon would
Speaker 1: like to match any donations, Oh that would be cool Amazon,
Speaker 1: you're going to do I think Jeff Bezos actually did
Speaker 1: match a bunch of ship Oh nice. So let's I
Speaker 1: want to go over some basic HIV questions. Okay, I'll try.
Speaker 1: I'm no expert. I have the prefaces, but I'm not.
Speaker 1: And if you don't know, we'll say we don't know.
Speaker 1: And that's basically me doing the ride. I think this
Speaker 1: is my sixth year doing an AIDS ride. Jim seven
Speaker 1: um and I did. This will be my fifth time
Speaker 1: going from most of New York. So I mean I've
Speaker 1: absorbed a lot just from you know, and that's that.
Speaker 1: What is another reason that I love the ride because
Speaker 1: I means amazing friends. Yeah, and you educate yourself before
Speaker 1: before the ride I didn't even really know anybody that
Speaker 1: was HIV positive. Yeah, I didn't do some people wore
Speaker 1: HIV positive do the ride as well? Or Now, um,
Speaker 1: here's a dumb, ignorant question HIV and AIDS. Does one
Speaker 1: does h could HIV lead to AIDS if not treated
Speaker 1: or what is the main distinction with that Because a
Speaker 1: lot of the organizations are HIV slash AIDS, so are
Speaker 1: they not mutually exclusive? What's going on. HIV is the
Speaker 1: virus that causes AIDS, and if left untreated, AIDS essentially
Speaker 1: destroys your immune system, or HIV essentially destroys your immune system.
Speaker 1: Once your immune system is gone, that's when you have AIDS.
Speaker 1: It's not like switch, it's like a very specific condition.
Speaker 1: You're more susceptible to you know, colds. There are I
Speaker 1: think the carcinomas that people used to get um and
Speaker 1: they still still do. And that's another reason that I
Speaker 1: DO is right because there are tools to treat it.
Speaker 1: And every time I hear about somebody that things that
Speaker 1: housing works does helps people avoid it. Give them a
Speaker 1: place to stay, they give them food, they give them clothes,
Speaker 1: they give them the resources, resources and them that's amazing
Speaker 1: and it is possible if you say, fall in love
Speaker 1: with somebody, have a crush on somebody, and you learn
Speaker 1: that they are HIV positive, it is completely doable and
Speaker 1: possible and fine to be able to pursue a sexual
Speaker 1: relationship with that person if you take the proper precautions
Speaker 1: and you're smart about it correct What are those precautions?
Speaker 1: So I mean there, you are responsible for your own
Speaker 1: health and the end of the day, um, and you know,
Speaker 1: you're responsible for knowing your status, and you know, communicating
Speaker 1: to your partners and disclosing and we you know, I
Speaker 1: think that that's an important part of it. But that's
Speaker 1: one of the reasons why I was terrified to do
Speaker 1: the HIV test on air, because it takes away the
Speaker 1: power of disclosing others. But you know, I think that
Speaker 1: this is more of a statement to the encourage people
Speaker 1: to get test awareness and the act of doing it
Speaker 1: is more powerful. And normalizing it and removing the stigma,
Speaker 1: I think is more powerful than the fear of you
Speaker 1: know that losing that disclosure. But but yes, I mean
Speaker 1: to to your question, there are many you know, I'm aware,
Speaker 1: I know many people that are in positive slash negative.
Speaker 1: We have one friend called it magnetic because negative together
Speaker 1: now positive referring to HIV positive and negative referring to
Speaker 1: their HIV status negative they do not have HIV, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: well because well I didn't know, all right, Well, so
Speaker 1: let's get into it, and like, because I think it's more,
Speaker 1: It's just it means more if we know, like where
Speaker 1: you're coming from. I think, so I had a I
Speaker 1: had a boyfriend, UM that disclosed to me that he
Speaker 1: was positive after the fact, like after our first date,
Speaker 1: hook up, whatever you want. So you had had sexual
Speaker 1: intercourse one time before he disclosed it to you, Okay,
Speaker 1: and how how did that make you feel? YouTube? And
Speaker 1: then how do you happen to both of you guys? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I had done the road four years at
Speaker 1: that point. Jeez, you're already neck deep in Like so
Speaker 1: I knew and any of the risk And like I
Speaker 1: said earlier, like it's uh, it is on you to
Speaker 1: take care of your own sexual health. What's not on them?
Speaker 1: Like and I'm and I'm I'm careful. I'm you know,
Speaker 1: aware of my partners, and you know there are things
Speaker 1: that you can do to minimize it. Um being smart
Speaker 1: the partner that you were that we're referring to did
Speaker 1: that person know he was positive? Did you use a condom? Yes? Okay,
Speaker 1: So did you get into a fight after? Like how
Speaker 1: was that conversation? Like how did that go down? I
Speaker 1: mean I could tell that, you know, he really liked
Speaker 1: me and I really liked him. It was one of
Speaker 1: those situations where there was just kind of an instant
Speaker 1: connection and we really kind of just both of us
Speaker 1: felt like it felt it and powerful. And he I
Speaker 1: could tell because it was like he was attempting to
Speaker 1: explain it and and I just had to, like I
Speaker 1: didn't let him drop it at first. Actually, so I
Speaker 1: was like, look, you know, I know what you're This
Speaker 1: is part of my like trying to understand first, but
Speaker 1: you know, I tend to assume what people are feeling,
Speaker 1: and so I was like, look, I know what you're
Speaker 1: going through. It's okay, Like I'm okay, Like I'm not
Speaker 1: going to freak out and run away from you. Because
Speaker 1: it's one of the problems in the gay community. As
Speaker 1: soon as it's they do something called Sarah sorting in
Speaker 1: the gay community, and it's on the all the apps,
Speaker 1: all that or whatever um, and it's gotten to the
Speaker 1: point where HIV positive people will only hook up with
Speaker 1: other HIV positive people because they fear that rejection. Well,
Speaker 1: isn't there a dating site for exclusively positive people? I mean,
Speaker 1: there's some there's a various there's various apps for people
Speaker 1: who have some sort of STD and you can you can,
Speaker 1: you know, check the box and say, okay, I'm I
Speaker 1: have this and and then I am only interested in
Speaker 1: people with this and so you know, but that doesn't
Speaker 1: stop other people from you know, contacting you. And but
Speaker 1: it's and so that's why it's called Sarah's sorting and
Speaker 1: it's actually been I don't know, they say it's actually
Speaker 1: fairly effective, but um, you know, it's just one way
Speaker 1: to kind of try to protect yourself. But it's not
Speaker 1: full proof. I mean, not everybody knows that they're hip
Speaker 1: be positive and that's just going to have that's well,
Speaker 1: because that's the stigma, is that, like, if I'm not
Speaker 1: HIV positive, I would never want to date someone's HIV
Speaker 1: positive because you can't wrap your head around that possibly
Speaker 1: working out. But the reality is there you that could
Speaker 1: be a happy, loving sexual relationship. And it was, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was. And did you did you go on any
Speaker 1: sort of medication, I did not, Okay, And is there
Speaker 1: a medication you could go on? But i'm commonly known
Speaker 1: as prep. You can take it every day and you
Speaker 1: are pretty much statistically never going to get HIV if
Speaker 1: you take it consistently every day. Um. And that's like
Speaker 1: one of the tools. I think that a preventative preventive.
Speaker 1: So it's not something you would take if you already
Speaker 1: have HV. That's totally different. Although it is medication. It
Speaker 1: is a medication that is included in a cocktail that
Speaker 1: four people with a people with HIV that eliminates the
Speaker 1: virus down to suppressed. Okay, that's what they call. And
Speaker 1: what is the term viral load? What does that mean? Well, okay,
Speaker 1: well I'm not I'm not a doctor, but it's it's
Speaker 1: the amount of cells, like the HIV cells per whatever
Speaker 1: mill a leader of blood. So you can have an
Speaker 1: untraceable viral load but still be HIV positive. It is
Speaker 1: the one with the point I was trying to make,
Speaker 1: because then if you have an untraceable load, the I
Speaker 1: think the viral load the traceable load, and Savage talk
Speaker 1: about viral load. I actually thought he meant like the
Speaker 1: amount of HIV that sign is not at all. That's
Speaker 1: not a crazy thing. But and then just because I
Speaker 1: want to talk to Jim as well about his experience
Speaker 1: with this. But for you, what were some precautions you took,
Speaker 1: Like while having sex with a positive partner, Um, we
Speaker 1: use condoms for a long time, UM medication. He was
Speaker 1: and by the time, you know, I was comfortable, we're
Speaker 1: going condoms, which not everybody knows, and some people might
Speaker 1: chastise me for but um, but you can, you can.
Speaker 1: And I knew, and I saw him take a pill
Speaker 1: every day, and so you know, I was confident and
Speaker 1: I knew, and it was I was negative after that.
Speaker 1: I was negative last time I was tested. So I'm
Speaker 1: not And I don't think that anybody should be discouraged
Speaker 1: from dating someone that is HIV positive and under medication
Speaker 1: and on medication, because you were taking away that potential
Speaker 1: for an amazing relationships you had mentioned before we started recording.
Speaker 1: It's that you should. Actually if it's person discloses to
Speaker 1: you that they are HIV positive at the beginning before
Speaker 1: you have sexual contact, that person is more trustworthy because
Speaker 1: they're taking care of themselves, they're aware of their status,
Speaker 1: taking care of you as well, and they're taking Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're taking care and they have respect for their partners
Speaker 1: by having there by having respect for themselves and knowing
Speaker 1: their their status. I mean I don't know the exact stats,
Speaker 1: but yeah, there there are and that's a problem. There's
Speaker 1: a large I mean, the LGBT community is especially susceptible
Speaker 1: to this because of the stigma and associated with it,
Speaker 1: and that's why testing is so important. That's why we're
Speaker 1: doing this test right now. But I think, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: knowing really is just the start. But you know, once
Speaker 1: you know, it's your responsibility to go and treatment. It's
Speaker 1: like it's almost like herd immunity, right, and they goes
Speaker 1: Also the sooner, you know, the sooner you can do
Speaker 1: something about it. I think a lot of people don't
Speaker 1: do things out of fear. But it's like, if you
Speaker 1: have HIV, you're gonna have HIV, why you take the
Speaker 1: test or not? So why don't you take the test
Speaker 1: speaking on it and then started start doing it? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, is it hasn't been twenty minutes because I
Speaker 1: was like at an hour, but for the interview, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: and we started when we were thirty minutes. So we
Speaker 1: need we don't have a drum roll, take breath? Does that?
Speaker 1: Hi visitor like a beat for when you find out
Speaker 1: your results? Are you guys nervous? I am nervous, but
Speaker 1: I could they could be testing me for Garrick is
Speaker 1: right now, I mean I was, I wasn't nervous, but
Speaker 1: I was also looking right at it, I wasn't. I wasn't.
Speaker 1: I feel like you guys were so nervous and it
Speaker 1: was making me nervous. But initially I was not nervous.
Speaker 1: I mean I was. I could have not had sex
Speaker 1: in the last year and I would still be nervous. Yeah, really,
Speaker 1: I just because it's just a it's just a situational thing.
Speaker 1: But I also think I think as a straight woman,
Speaker 1: I am like a little or just as a woman
Speaker 1: in general. It's just like, I don't know, just not
Speaker 1: something we're really tough, like I don't know for HIV,
Speaker 1: like is just for faggots, Well no, but people using
Speaker 1: into venus trucks just like it's not something that And
Speaker 1: there is a reason that LGBT people are more right,
Speaker 1: what's three? So I mean anal sex but whole terrors right,
Speaker 1: they're they're micro tears. I mean They can also happen
Speaker 1: in the vagina um, but there are harder to transmit
Speaker 1: right to transmit because of the Just like saliva, the
Speaker 1: vagina produces lubricant which acts as a barrier. Right, um,
Speaker 1: But you know a lot about the quick questions. I
Speaker 1: have a quick question before I was I don't say
Speaker 1: are you a gold star game? But that one a
Speaker 1: one girl I like, I'm the only one out of
Speaker 1: the three of us as I had hair looked at
Speaker 1: the HIV test. Yet one last question before you, just
Speaker 1: in case I have at the moon drops. There is
Speaker 1: a community for you and we will support you forever. Thanks,
Speaker 1: and you can still join the ride if you'd imagine
Speaker 1: how much donations they'll get Christina has can you imagine?
Speaker 1: I hope does it? Really? Don't aware that you can
Speaker 1: make donations too, and it makes a huge difference. I
Speaker 1: think you should join it whether or not. Chrystie like
Speaker 1: a hundred dollars pays for that housing works fan up
Speaker 1: to all the well both both on don't have HIV
Speaker 1: right now for you don't have negative I got one
Speaker 1: last jovial question. Does riding a bike make your balls hurt? Jesus,
Speaker 1: that's a long time on bike. Where do you put
Speaker 1: your ball? First? Bike friendly bike ball friendly seats. Guys
Speaker 1: have special bike seats for their balls. Something a little bit.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like, you know when they say
Speaker 1: it's really ball friendly. They're just kind of ball friendly.
Speaker 1: So are you riding on your balls? No, there's a
Speaker 1: little ridge down the middle of the seat. No, it's
Speaker 1: so you were. This is part of the reason while
Speaker 1: you were standex while you're biking it, it holds them
Speaker 1: to you. But so I actually had an issue with
Speaker 1: this my first ride, and I did the training. I
Speaker 1: was prepared huge balls, have huge balls balls, But no,
Speaker 1: so they The problem was I was like riding my
Speaker 1: bike to the drop off to get it to ship
Speaker 1: up to Boston, and my foot slipped off the pedal
Speaker 1: and my coxus hit the seat. Motherfucker bruised really really badly.
Speaker 1: And so I get to the ride and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm talking to one of the bike text only Okay,
Speaker 1: so how how can I like relieve pressure off of
Speaker 1: my coxus. He's like, well, you could angle it back
Speaker 1: a little bit, but your dick might go numb. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, what are you talking about. He's like, well,
Speaker 1: if you angle it back, you won't be sitting on
Speaker 1: your sit bones. You're sitting on your paranea. The tank.
Speaker 1: It supplies blood to pretty much every beginning used when
Speaker 1: you you use real word, all right, can I find
Speaker 1: out my HIV real quick? Yes, of course, and then
Speaker 1: I can continue my story. I don't. This is why
Speaker 1: having I'm a person with things. Are you a hypochondria? No,
Speaker 1: but like this is why I don't like, like, here's
Speaker 1: you don't sleep because it's like, oh my god, I
Speaker 1: have this, Oh my god, and then nothing happened. Well,
Speaker 1: my fear of airplanes is my brain going, You're about
Speaker 1: to crash. You're about to crash. You're about everyone's on
Speaker 1: the die. It's the realistic. Hey, I mean not really,
Speaker 1: only because she's been a relationship for five and a
Speaker 1: half years. It's just it just seems not I've only
Speaker 1: welcomed to sexual partners in and they were both female
Speaker 1: and female to female. Transmission of hib I look it
Speaker 1: up before you guys is rare. Yeah, it's like non existent. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why the lesbians secure of the gays in the
Speaker 1: seventies and eighties and the nineties, because lesbians, we love you,
Speaker 1: We lost an entire generation of gay men. How many
Speaker 1: men died gay men died of the eights crisis, do
Speaker 1: you know? I don't know. It was a lot. But
Speaker 1: I think there are like thirty million people in the
Speaker 1: world living with HIV. There's and then every year there's
Speaker 1: just as many new cases as the year before, and
Speaker 1: it's not it's still because I mean, I feel like
Speaker 1: when we were kids, like if you got HIV, like
Speaker 1: that was kind of like considered, like that's it. And
Speaker 1: then we saw everyone knows, we saw Magic Johnson kind
Speaker 1: of we had HIV and then he's just kind of
Speaker 1: chilling it and we're like, Okay, well maybe if you
Speaker 1: have enough money then you can live. But now the
Speaker 1: medical advancements have been made and that you can live
Speaker 1: with We have we have friends and this is part
Speaker 1: of the reason why I keep doing it after year.
Speaker 1: We have friends that literally tell stories of them being
Speaker 1: on their deathbed and suddenly the cocktail came out and
Speaker 1: it was like magic and the cocktail being of the medication.
Speaker 1: They had a bloody Mary who don't know the medication
Speaker 1: when you put the bacon in the bloody the bacon
Speaker 1: in the garlic and everything. Now we have to wrap.
Speaker 1: But before we do that, where can people donate two
Speaker 1: more tests? Like didn't look at his? Oh no, we
Speaker 1: both you. I was looking right at mine. I turn
Speaker 1: mine away and you got it. Yeah, my test was
Speaker 1: working well according to this test. I guess it could
Speaker 1: stroll up later in my life. It is this like
Speaker 1: a definitive? Is this like it's not I don't think
Speaker 1: it's like the take on test. And they recommend that
Speaker 1: even if you do receive a positive result, to your
Speaker 1: contact your doctor, like, don't freak out, you know, don't
Speaker 1: freak out anyway. I mean, just yeah, there there. I think,
Speaker 1: as we learned this episode, there are a lot of
Speaker 1: things that you can do. But and just yeahs know
Speaker 1: on the package of this test particular tests. So if
Speaker 1: you find these online you want to get them. It's
Speaker 1: called or a Quick Rapid Antibody Test Advance and it
Speaker 1: says HIV hyphen one ASH two, So I'm assuming HIV
Speaker 1: one and just I just searched for take home HIV
Speaker 1: test and on Amazon and they you combine. You can
Speaker 1: get them for free. They're around, they're free HIV test
Speaker 1: dot com I think has probably you can go to
Speaker 1: you can go to the center. You can go to
Speaker 1: any clinic has them available, um for free. I know
Speaker 1: housing works Wonderful Parenthood probably has pland parenthood definitely. It's
Speaker 1: one of those evil things that planned parenthood does. Oh
Speaker 1: they let people know their status. Well yeah, absolutely murderers.
Speaker 1: I think it's like to go in and get them
Speaker 1: as great, like if you live in a more metropolitan area.
Speaker 1: But for our listeners, like in the middle, you know
Speaker 1: it listening in a barn and just get it sent
Speaker 1: to you. Yeah, And I mean it comes in a
Speaker 1: completely an Amazon box. It's like people, it was like
Speaker 1: a plain Manila envelope. Yeah. People, you're getting a DVD.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. It was right on top of someone's blue
Speaker 1: apron box side. It was completely discreet. No one's going
Speaker 1: to know. They're gonna think you got like a little
Speaker 1: present from your friends. Yeah. And it's very important just
Speaker 1: to remember no matter what, there is a community out
Speaker 1: there that can support you and get you through whatever happens.
Speaker 1: And and don't despair, don't like you know it's so
Speaker 1: much there is a support group, there's a there's a
Speaker 1: support a death sentence. The ride itself has shown me
Speaker 1: so much love. Yeah, and after many trouble of the
Speaker 1: day after the ride. The Monday after the ride, all
Speaker 1: I do is cry and accept new friends on Facebook. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you end up with like fifteen new friends. My boss
Speaker 1: is my boss is where my spotsors just give me
Speaker 1: the day off the automatic requests if you're not doing
Speaker 1: it for the friends. Yeah, I think I posted on Instagram.
Speaker 1: I just like I work from home the next day
Speaker 1: and I had like a box of tissues a glass
Speaker 1: of water because you know, you get dehydrated. Yeah, just
Speaker 1: like crying and biking. Yeah, well you're still Yeah, so
Speaker 1: how so where can we guys find your pages to donate?
Speaker 1: How can we help you? Go to Breaking Age Ride?
Speaker 1: Just type in Breaking Age Ride and Breaking is with
Speaker 1: a Bike break b R A K I N G
Speaker 1: AIDS Ride two thousand sixteen. You'll see participants and you
Speaker 1: can donate that and you can donate you can look
Speaker 1: up just type in our names Jim Ku or Mike
Speaker 1: Frogg Is that Mike frog it or Michael frog Mike
Speaker 1: and I also have I also have the link in
Speaker 1: my Instagram and we'll have the link in the description
Speaker 1: of this of this week's podcast too, will have links
Speaker 1: available and it's Jim Cou The last name is k You,
Speaker 1: Mike Froggy, the last name is f r O G
Speaker 1: G A T T. My mom is gonna kill me. Okay,
Speaker 1: well it's all good. She can't kill you that you
Speaker 1: guys have fun. I did go. There was there was
Speaker 1: the moments of anxiety, moments of joy, moments. Since it
Speaker 1: was great, we can write like, yeah, it's a lot
Speaker 1: of information. Jim and guys, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: being Thank you both so much wonderful this has been Guys,
Speaker 1: we fussed the Anti flut Chinning podcast. We'll talk you
Speaker 1: next Friday. By Angkor into angcor. You don't have to worry,
Speaker 1: Hope and no Well always be their fear into acor
Speaker 1: into accor. You don't have to worry, Hope you and
Speaker 1: no Well always be ever. Thank you guys so much
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