Speaker 1: Here's some stories about shore. We made about a bunch
Speaker 1: of doctor nurses. Stories. Yato around here, are Yato around here.
Speaker 1: I gotta tell y'all, I got this song in my
Speaker 1: head and you're gonna love it. It's an old standard, Joel.
Speaker 1: I know you're gonna feel it. I can't. I'm ready,
Speaker 1: ready or not? Here I come? You can't hide, Gonna
Speaker 1: find you and take it slowly, yes, foojie's ready or not.
Speaker 1: It never goes out of style, Joel. I've been singing
Speaker 1: it all morning. Whole album still hits. You know, when
Speaker 1: you got a song in your head, you wake Do
Speaker 1: you guys wake up with a song in your head? Sometimes? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Sometimes certainly have. I very often will wake up and
Speaker 1: I'll just be like, ready or not? Here I come.
Speaker 1: That's not always that song, but maybe I was dreaming
Speaker 1: about it or something. But this morning I woke up.
Speaker 1: My dog licked my face, and I was just like,
Speaker 1: you can't hide. Gone up? He said, you're ready. You
Speaker 1: can't run away from these tears I've got. Oh baby,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make sure the lyrics right hold on. I
Speaker 1: looked him up because I did not want to mess up. Ye,
Speaker 1: I don't think you got one wrong yet. Wait wait, wait,
Speaker 1: I looked it up because, for those of you don't know,
Speaker 1: Lauren and I went to high school together. Lauren was
Speaker 1: at my bar Mitzvah. Yes, Lauren, there's a bar mitzvah
Speaker 1: game you called called coke and Pepsi, which is basically
Speaker 1: just kids running around the dance floor, but you have
Speaker 1: to have a partner, and Lauren was my coke and
Speaker 1: Pepsi partner at So just you know this, this runs deep.
Speaker 1: I want to get that one part she sings, you
Speaker 1: can't run away from these styles. I got, oh baby,
Speaker 1: hey baby, because I got a lot. Oh yeah, anywhere
Speaker 1: you got that's too hot anywhere anyway, anywhere you go
Speaker 1: my whole crew gun no, oh baby, hey baby. You
Speaker 1: can't hide from the block. All right. Listen, Donald's not
Speaker 1: here today, guys. So I had to do the loud singing.
Speaker 1: So I'm done. That's set. The audience who hate singing.
Speaker 1: That section is now over singing. Oh no, no, I
Speaker 1: just don't know, you know, listen, people hate everything. So
Speaker 1: I once saw a video on YouTube. I once saw
Speaker 1: this is I once saw a video on YouTube that
Speaker 1: was to this day one of the sweetest things I've
Speaker 1: ever seen in my life. It was a father playing guitar,
Speaker 1: singing with his probably four year old and they like
Speaker 1: new harmonies and it was it brings a tear to
Speaker 1: my eye thinking of it. And there were like this
Speaker 1: is back when they would show down votes. There were
Speaker 1: like thousands of down votes, and I was like, if
Speaker 1: that isn't the ultimate example, wow, I hate joy. That's
Speaker 1: the interwebt But somebody was like, took the time to
Speaker 1: be like this adorable father and toddler singing to themselves. Nope,
Speaker 1: thumbs down, not entertaining to me this. Wow. Um, well,
Speaker 1: let me explain the audience. What's happening. We're doing a
Speaker 1: special episode today. Um. Donald, don't worry, kids, Mommy and
Speaker 1: Daddy aren't getting divorced. We're not breaking up. Um our
Speaker 1: our friend Donald is shooting his new show and he's
Speaker 1: loving it and it's amazing and he's having the best
Speaker 1: time and he's getting that work and so we're so
Speaker 1: happy for him. Um. But I felt like, you know,
Speaker 1: we hadn't done a show. We did the Florence one,
Speaker 1: which was so well received, Thank you for all the
Speaker 1: love on that one. But we were going to be
Speaker 1: off this week, and I just said to Joel, and
Speaker 1: Joel said to me, we were like, let's do something.
Speaker 1: And so I came up with an idea kind of
Speaker 1: inspired by Jonah Hill and his amazing doc stunts, which
Speaker 1: you haven't seen is really good, um, where he brings
Speaker 1: his therapist on and sort of talks you know, and
Speaker 1: shares some of you know, what he's gotten from his
Speaker 1: therapist and just sort of shared the information. His was
Speaker 1: done in a very artful documentary way. But I thought
Speaker 1: we are called fake doctor's real friends. I do have
Speaker 1: a coach psychologist who has helped me with a lot
Speaker 1: of my life and certainly is the reason I was
Speaker 1: able to write this movie. And um, I just thought
Speaker 1: we could have him on and all shoot the ship
Speaker 1: and it could just be a conversation about mental health.
Speaker 1: It could be a conversation about anything anything we wanted
Speaker 1: to be Joel and Daniel, I want you guys to
Speaker 1: participate and steer it wherever you want. What do you think?
Speaker 1: What do you think about that very here? Of course,
Speaker 1: did you hear the doc is in bringing the doc there?
Speaker 1: He is the whole team. Yes, So doctor Fader, meet
Speaker 1: Daniel Goodman and Joel, Monique l and Joel. Nice to
Speaker 1: meet you both. How's it going, Doctor Fanner, Happy to
Speaker 1: welcome to the program. Um. So, as I was saying
Speaker 1: to the audience, you know, we don't have Donald because
Speaker 1: he's working, and I really wanted to thank you the
Speaker 1: audience from the bottom of my heart. The the audience
Speaker 1: response to a good Person has been just monumental. I
Speaker 1: think it currently has a ninety five percent audience rating
Speaker 1: on Rotten Tomatoes, which is just pretty unheard of and rare.
Speaker 1: And I just you know, this audience, you guys who
Speaker 1: are listening, guys and gals, have been with me the
Speaker 1: whole journey. If you've been listening to this podcast. I
Speaker 1: started writing this when we started this podcast, and so
Speaker 1: you know, I really have a journal, in the sense
Speaker 1: of an audio journal of my process. The whole time
Speaker 1: I was doing this podcast, I was writing this movie.
Speaker 1: So it feels so great to share it with you.
Speaker 1: And and also I just thought I would go a
Speaker 1: little bit. The idea behind this podcast, since we don't
Speaker 1: have Donald and can't do an episode of Scrubs, was
Speaker 1: to put out something and and talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about the process of writing it. M and I thought,
Speaker 1: who better to have on than doctor Fader, because he
Speaker 1: I couldn't have done this without him, and I so
Speaker 1: much of the things that I'm accomplishing in my life
Speaker 1: I couldn't have done without him. And I first met
Speaker 1: him about seven years ago. I believe there's a very
Speaker 1: successful person in my life who will obviously remain anonymous
Speaker 1: who I was just killing it. And not only was
Speaker 1: he killing it, but he always seemed happy. And I
Speaker 1: was like, what the fuck is wrong with this guy?
Speaker 1: And he was killing it in his career, he was
Speaker 1: killing it in his relationships. He was happy, always happy.
Speaker 1: And I said, bro, what is the secret? And he said, well,
Speaker 1: lots of things, lots of work, but also I really
Speaker 1: recommend my coach, my my psychologist, doctor Jonathan Fader. And
Speaker 1: so we started working together and and I don't know
Speaker 1: what to say. I mean, I have plenty to say,
Speaker 1: but I just want to welcome you to the show. Dude. Hey,
Speaker 1: thanks man, and thanks for all those those kind of words.
Speaker 1: You know, I genuinely feel that this is something that
Speaker 1: we've done fully together. And I think your courage and
Speaker 1: the hard work that you put in, I mean, this
Speaker 1: is hard work to change yourself and it's hard work
Speaker 1: to get started, it's hard work in the middle, and
Speaker 1: it's hard work all the way through. And you've worked
Speaker 1: really hard. Well, I couldn't have done it without you
Speaker 1: and I and I I guess I want to just say,
Speaker 1: you know, will you explain just for you know, some
Speaker 1: people on this podcast are familiar with different types of therapy,
Speaker 1: and some don't know anything about it. Some have it
Speaker 1: in their lives, some it's been you know, it's looked
Speaker 1: down upon in their families. You know, we have people
Speaker 1: who listen from all over the world and from all
Speaker 1: walks of life. So will you just generally explain to
Speaker 1: the layman what the difference is between a traditional psychologist
Speaker 1: or traditional there I think of old school therapy, but
Speaker 1: and what you call what you do, which is being
Speaker 1: a cognitive behaviorist, because and I've been in therapy since
Speaker 1: I was a little kid and seen all sorts of
Speaker 1: therapists because I had OCD as i've shared on here,
Speaker 1: and depression and anxiety. But I really feel like I
Speaker 1: started to make some some and now all that's been helpful.
Speaker 1: I don't mean to minimize any of it, but I
Speaker 1: really feel like I started to make some some more
Speaker 1: some larger shifts when I started working with you and
Speaker 1: your style of working. So can you explain that in
Speaker 1: basic terms for people? Yeah, I mean I think that
Speaker 1: most people have a misunderstanding about what therapy is to
Speaker 1: begin with, and that you know, just because of you know,
Speaker 1: watching the Sopranos or watching the show, you begin to think, hey,
Speaker 1: this is really about not not the killing part, but
Speaker 1: you know, you begin to think that this is about
Speaker 1: only about the past. It's about understanding your past and
Speaker 1: going really deep psychologically into who people are. And this
Speaker 1: comes from like, you know, the history it's for it's
Speaker 1: the beard, it's the pipe, it's lying on a couch.
Speaker 1: But that that way of doing things is that old
Speaker 1: school way has really evolved over the years. And the
Speaker 1: kind of therapy that that I do is based in
Speaker 1: cognitive behavioral therapy, which really means two things. It means
Speaker 1: we focus on the here and now, we focus on
Speaker 1: changing behaviors and actively together in a collaborative way, changing thoughts.
Speaker 1: As we were saying before too, it's it's not just
Speaker 1: a one person kind of thing where someone just talks.
Speaker 1: We talk together, and so it's much more like coaching
Speaker 1: where you're jumping in. You're thinking together about which thoughts work.
Speaker 1: We tell ourselves these stories. You know, we're all from
Speaker 1: from birth right as soon as we learn to talk,
Speaker 1: we tell ourselves stories about ourselves. And this work is
Speaker 1: really about examining those stories, seeing which stories work and
Speaker 1: which don't, and then how in a partnership you begin
Speaker 1: to change those stories so your life begins to resemble
Speaker 1: the story that you want. That's so well said, and
Speaker 1: it jumps right into what I want to say. Is
Speaker 1: one of the one of the biggest things I've got
Speaker 1: out of working with you and the readings I've done,
Speaker 1: is that you're going to make up stories. An experience happens,
Speaker 1: and then your brain instantly goes to work making up
Speaker 1: a story and an interpretation of what just happened. And
Speaker 1: if you're an anxious, depressive person, that that could instantly
Speaker 1: go to worry and negativity and the worst possible interpretation
Speaker 1: of that experience. But you just but one just totally
Speaker 1: made all that up and instantly accepted it as the truth. No, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I mean, as you know, I mean, I work with
Speaker 1: you know, exceptional performing artists and like the one hosting
Speaker 1: this show, but I work with a lot of athletes,
Speaker 1: tons of athletes. You know, I've worked for many years
Speaker 1: in the Major League baseball in the NFL. One of
Speaker 1: the stories I wrote about in my book is exactly
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. You know. There's a pitcher who's
Speaker 1: in the major leagues for the first time, first time
Speaker 1: in the big Show. He's up there, he's pitching, and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, he notices that his pitching coach
Speaker 1: looks a little bit disturbed. He just sees it in
Speaker 1: in in, you know, down in the dugout, and he's
Speaker 1: up there and he's starting to think about, like, what
Speaker 1: is this guy? What is he thinking about it? Right now?
Speaker 1: He's just sucking totally. You know, he's really suspicious of me.
Speaker 1: He's got all these stories going in his head, and
Speaker 1: he actually kind of gives up a home run, has
Speaker 1: a terrible outing, comes back in the dugout, and the
Speaker 1: pitching coach he's saying, how are you doing all right?
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, But part of it is like your
Speaker 1: attitude towardsman. He's like, dude, I've had I've had terrible
Speaker 1: gas all day. I've been you know, I don't know
Speaker 1: what it was. The burritos last night. So you know,
Speaker 1: you're right, man. We have this constant story that we
Speaker 1: tell ourselves and it's very evolutionary, right. I mean, no
Speaker 1: one gives you the handbook on on what it means
Speaker 1: to be a human, right, we learned it along the way,
Speaker 1: and so CBT cogon behavioral therapy and to some degree,
Speaker 1: performance psychologies. It's all about giving people a better manual
Speaker 1: about how to live as a human, how to change
Speaker 1: your thoughts, how to interpret stories in a different way.
Speaker 1: We need training on this, you know, and you never
Speaker 1: we obviously never get a manual we get, you know,
Speaker 1: we get, we learned. None of this is taught in school,
Speaker 1: you know, we have In my school, we had to
Speaker 1: take we had to learn. I always I always reference
Speaker 1: proofs as the dumbest thing I learned because it was
Speaker 1: like and I know some kids needed to be exposed
Speaker 1: to mathematical proofs to go on and be math geniuses.
Speaker 1: But I remember learning like therefore by the associative property,
Speaker 1: whatever the fuck it was, being like this, my time
Speaker 1: would be so much more valued with a communications course.
Speaker 1: And actually my high school, I'm sure it's long gone,
Speaker 1: but in the early nineties had one communications class and
Speaker 1: I remember thinking, even at the time, thinking like, this
Speaker 1: is pretty progressive for a public high school, and it
Speaker 1: was amazing. It was it was about sharing, it was
Speaker 1: about listening, it was about all this stuff, and most kids,
Speaker 1: this is my me rambling going so much of what
Speaker 1: I've learned, and and in late in life it would
Speaker 1: be so valuable. I always think when I have some
Speaker 1: Eureka moment with you or with a book, I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, imagine I knew this in high school.
Speaker 1: Imagine someone exposed me to this in my teens. How
Speaker 1: much easier I could have navigated all all my emotions
Speaker 1: and all my insecurity. You know. Yeah, And there's something
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, Zach, it's really it's interesting you're
Speaker 1: saying that, because there is some movement towards that, like
Speaker 1: there's a whole social and emotional learning that's happening a
Speaker 1: little bit more in school. But I agree with you,
Speaker 1: I mean, I agree with you. I think that fundamentally,
Speaker 1: you know, what we need to learn is how to
Speaker 1: understand our emotions and how to understand our thoughts and feelings.
Speaker 1: And we don't really learn that, right. We spend a
Speaker 1: lot of time learning things that aren't that value of
Speaker 1: all those proofs you're never gonna use again. But wow,
Speaker 1: if people just learned how to listen better to other people,
Speaker 1: if that's what was taught, Like if you were taught
Speaker 1: how to empathize and how to listen, which is a
Speaker 1: really hard skill to learn because we all listen to
Speaker 1: reply and so how to I mean, it's one of
Speaker 1: the most powerful things I got out of all of
Speaker 1: this is like that interpretation, that negative thought you're having
Speaker 1: is not the truth, and it's and it's not even
Speaker 1: who you are. It's just this trigger response to an event.
Speaker 1: And in my case, because I'm a warrior and I'm
Speaker 1: anxious and i have OCD, the trigger response is negativity
Speaker 1: and worry and fear and and I've been learning with
Speaker 1: you that, Like that's just totally the web usepun like that.
Speaker 1: The facts of what happened are our X. Okay, you know.
Speaker 1: The fact is the pitching coach looked like he was frowning.
Speaker 1: That is a fact. But my experience of it is
Speaker 1: he's saying I suck. He's swirming, he thinks I suck.
Speaker 1: Everyone in this fucking stadium thinks I suck. I do suck.
Speaker 1: Why am I here, I shouldn't be here, and then
Speaker 1: of course the next day you learn he just had gas.
Speaker 1: And I do that every I do that a thousand
Speaker 1: times a I mean, even with the work I'm doing it.
Speaker 1: I'm actually trying to work on this. I'm obviously catching
Speaker 1: myself now, but I'm still it's still a trigger response,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? No? Absolutely, And that's
Speaker 1: what's so great about you know, you talking about it
Speaker 1: and being open about it, because you know everybody listening
Speaker 1: does that. You know, it's evolutionary. You know we all
Speaker 1: have this negative bias. It grew because humans need to
Speaker 1: be negative in order to survive. Let's take a break.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after these fine words. So the
Speaker 1: rule of threes is a really interesting rule. It's it's
Speaker 1: about survival. How long can you survive without food? I
Speaker 1: want to take a guess, like three days, right, you
Speaker 1: can survive longer, Actually you can survive. You're you're actually
Speaker 1: thinking about about water. You can survive for three weeks,
Speaker 1: But you're right, it's three days without water and it's
Speaker 1: three minutes without air. So three weeks out without food,
Speaker 1: three days without water, three minutes without are basically right,
Speaker 1: and so you're you really we have this conception that
Speaker 1: we need that those things, but we can survive longer.
Speaker 1: But how long can you survive if you fail to
Speaker 1: recognize a predator in your environment, if you don't notice
Speaker 1: something dangerous, how long will you survive? Could be no
Speaker 1: time at all, No time at all, we're dead. So
Speaker 1: if you think about how our brains evolved, they evolved
Speaker 1: to notice the thing that was wrong. Right, That's how
Speaker 1: we're built. We're built to notice the thing that's wrong.
Speaker 1: When I give a talk, I mean, you know, or
Speaker 1: give a talk to a thousand people whatever, I go
Speaker 1: up there, the first person I notice is the person
Speaker 1: looking at their phone. Yeah, first person I know. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, I did a Broadway show. Dude, I did
Speaker 1: a Broadway show. And I would perform to two thousand
Speaker 1: people or I don't know, something like that, and I
Speaker 1: would I would see someone yawned, and it would fucking
Speaker 1: ruin my whole show. Absolutely, absolutely, one person. I'm ignoring
Speaker 1: the nineteen the nineteen hundred and ninety nine people that
Speaker 1: are are hopefully enjoying it, and I see the one
Speaker 1: dude yawn and I'm like, I suck, this sucks. We
Speaker 1: suck totally, right. I mean, that's and that and that's
Speaker 1: something that's universal and so you know, so the way
Speaker 1: I talk about it, and you know this, you know,
Speaker 1: is that there are three parts to being a human thoughts, feelings,
Speaker 1: and actions, and that we spend most of our time
Speaker 1: focused on feelings, when feelings is a thing that we
Speaker 1: control the least. You can't directly if you're feeling shitty
Speaker 1: and someone says, hey, cheer up, what do you want
Speaker 1: to do? Punch the person in the face, right, Like,
Speaker 1: that's you know, the worst thing you could say to
Speaker 1: someone who's anxious has calmed down, right, that you can't
Speaker 1: you can you really, you just you can lose your mind.
Speaker 1: So what are the things that we can affect. We
Speaker 1: can affect thoughts, and we can affect actions. The one
Speaker 1: thing you directly control is what you do. And so
Speaker 1: a lot of behavior of therapy is thinking about that
Speaker 1: with people and as you know, doing experiments. You know,
Speaker 1: there's this myth that we have to feel a certain
Speaker 1: way to act a certain way, and it's just the reverse.
Speaker 1: You know, by behaving a certain way, you can you
Speaker 1: start to feel a certain way. And I think that's
Speaker 1: hard to do. Without some coaching, right, that therapy doesn't
Speaker 1: have to take forever, the myth of you know, sitting
Speaker 1: on a couch and talking about your past for ten years. Look,
Speaker 1: I mean therapy can be really effective done in short duration,
Speaker 1: in six weeks, in eight weeks, and twelve weeks, if
Speaker 1: you're really working with someone who's focused with you and
Speaker 1: who's jumping in and helping you to as you were saying,
Speaker 1: examine right, put into a record these thoughts. I always
Speaker 1: tell people when I'm working with them. Look, you know
Speaker 1: in your head there's a district attorney and a public defender.
Speaker 1: Only when we get depressed and anxious, the district attorney
Speaker 1: is like Harvard train. They're ready to go, right, they're
Speaker 1: attacking every moment, right, But you need to beef up
Speaker 1: that public defender. You need to school them. You need
Speaker 1: to give them instructions about how to examine these thoughts.
Speaker 1: You know, humans have these two errors that we jump to.
Speaker 1: One is blowing things out of proportion and the other
Speaker 1: one is jump into conclusion. And so as we were
Speaker 1: talking about before, what a great coach, a great therapist
Speaker 1: is going to help you do is to examine the
Speaker 1: evidence and put things in perspective. The more you do that,
Speaker 1: you know you're gonna have a different relationship to the
Speaker 1: events in your life. As the famous quote says, things
Speaker 1: are not as they are, they are as we are. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that. I also feel like
Speaker 1: you know, Um, and some of this, by the way,
Speaker 1: not to plug shrinking, but some of this is happening
Speaker 1: and shrinking. If you're watching shrinking. Um, there's a there's
Speaker 1: a running joke called called boop where where they refer
Speaker 1: to as a pattern interrupt And what I got out
Speaker 1: of that is you can change the way you're being
Speaker 1: with someone instantaneously and and they can't help but shift.
Speaker 1: It's almost like in tennis, Um, if you if you,
Speaker 1: if you hit the ball cross court, the opponent has
Speaker 1: to has to there's no choice, has to shift to
Speaker 1: the other side of the court. And aren't impressed. Talkingment
Speaker 1: of sports enalogy. But by the way, I didn't realize.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize until last night in the bath, as
Speaker 1: I was thinking where I have my greatest revelations, I
Speaker 1: was like, how funny is it that of all of
Speaker 1: the therapists in the world, I have a sports psychologist
Speaker 1: as why But um, yeahs like neither of us, neither
Speaker 1: of us have credibility in that department. Well, you're you know,
Speaker 1: you're not an athlete. They're terrible. That's I think that's
Speaker 1: the thing that makes me good. Weren't you like the
Speaker 1: weren't you like the psychologist for the Giants? I was
Speaker 1: a psychologist for the New York Mets for nine years
Speaker 1: and the New York Giants for two years. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: that's amazing that you don't know anything about sports. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know about it, but I can't. I mean, the
Speaker 1: most you must need to know more than I know,
Speaker 1: because I just know, like you're trying to get the
Speaker 1: ball with the bat as far as possible. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think where I needed my own own techniques is
Speaker 1: when I was asked to play catch with these guys
Speaker 1: like on the field, and they saw what I was
Speaker 1: really made up. That's funny. Um, but um this idea
Speaker 1: of a pattern interrupt that you can change who you're
Speaker 1: being and like the person that you've I hit cross court,
Speaker 1: the guy has to the guy or gal has to
Speaker 1: move to the other side of the court. Well, in
Speaker 1: micro ways, you can do that anytime you choose in
Speaker 1: your life. You've been Let's say you've been reacting to
Speaker 1: a certain person's behavior. Your go to reaction is a
Speaker 1: certain way, and then you try a pattern and drop,
Speaker 1: and you just change who you're being in that in
Speaker 1: that relationship and they have to move to the other
Speaker 1: side of the court because your reaction is different. Do
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Can you explain that more
Speaker 1: particularly than I just did? No? I think you're explaining
Speaker 1: it well. I mean, you know Marshall Lenahan, who's a
Speaker 1: really you know, an innovator in the field. She has
Speaker 1: a quote which she says, like, you can't think yourself
Speaker 1: into a new way of acting, You have to act
Speaker 1: yourself into a new way of thinking. And I think
Speaker 1: a pattern disrupt the way we talk about that is
Speaker 1: an experiment. And what I find to be really effective
Speaker 1: is you know, once you start to do experiments in
Speaker 1: your life, right, you know, once you start to try
Speaker 1: something that's different, Yeah, you get a different result, and
Speaker 1: that result is reinforcing. There's nothing more powerful than reinforcement
Speaker 1: when we do something that A pattern destruct works because
Speaker 1: usually when you do when you do a different action,
Speaker 1: you have a different result, and if that result is reinforcing,
Speaker 1: it's really powerful and it makes you want to do
Speaker 1: it more. That just lights me up so much because
Speaker 1: I want our audience to hear something that's so powerful.
Speaker 1: Is like, that's instantaneous, that's not years of therapy. That's
Speaker 1: something it takes. It might take courage in your situation,
Speaker 1: and definitely might take vulnerability in your situation, but it's
Speaker 1: literally something you can do instantaneously, which is I no
Speaker 1: longer will accept just making up example, you talking to
Speaker 1: me that way, the way that you're talking to me
Speaker 1: is no longer acceptable, and my reaction to it will
Speaker 1: now be why even though for a decade it's been X.
Speaker 1: And of course that takes courage. This is all about
Speaker 1: courage and vulnerability. That's the theme of the whole wall
Speaker 1: of working on yourself. But it is something you can
Speaker 1: notice instantaneously, right, Doc, Absolutely, I mean I think you know,
Speaker 1: to use the shrinking term. You know it is trying
Speaker 1: those boops in your life. You know you're worried about um,
Speaker 1: you know what someone's going to think of you if
Speaker 1: you you know, behave in a certain way. Try that behavior.
Speaker 1: What I tell people all the time, And this comes
Speaker 1: from a long history of science in what's called exposure therapy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, exposure therapy. You know, so much of life
Speaker 1: is by you know, finding ways to stop avoiding things.
Speaker 1: Avoidance is the enemy of all progress, and finding ways
Speaker 1: to stem avoidance is the key. So I mean really
Speaker 1: simply with or without therapy, kind of making a list
Speaker 1: of the things that you're avoiding and just in the
Speaker 1: smallest ways attacking those things is a disruptive pattern that's
Speaker 1: going to help you achieve. That could be a huge
Speaker 1: conversation that you're avoiding. That could be asking for a
Speaker 1: raise at work, that could be changing, you know, starting
Speaker 1: your screenplay, it could be starting your business. I mean,
Speaker 1: it could be something small like a conversation, or it
Speaker 1: could be something big like starting a business right entirely.
Speaker 1: And I think you know the thing about I mean,
Speaker 1: I was just you got me thinking about shrinking. What
Speaker 1: I love about that show is you know, it's a parody, right,
Speaker 1: so he's just going and just telling everybody what he thinks.
Speaker 1: But what I think is great about that is this
Speaker 1: is he's just confronting avoidance. You know, what you find
Speaker 1: in your life is when you start to do the
Speaker 1: things you're afraid of, you get unusual results and positive reinforcement.
Speaker 1: Positive re enforcement is so much more powerful than anything
Speaker 1: that you could any kind of other reward. There's a
Speaker 1: story I tell about positive reenforcement. So one of the
Speaker 1: biggest people who's evolved the field of psychology was this
Speaker 1: guy BF Skinner, Right, he was a guy who changed psychology,
Speaker 1: came up up with these ideas of positive reinforcement. He
Speaker 1: used to do, you know, experiments with where he'd look
Speaker 1: at how people will respond to it. And one year
Speaker 1: his class decided they were going to actually respond to
Speaker 1: him and use positive reinforcement operating conditioning with him. And
Speaker 1: so what they decided to do is while he was speaking,
Speaker 1: they were going to just reinforce his behavior, try to
Speaker 1: get him to move to the left side of the room.
Speaker 1: That's the behavior they were encouraging. And so they did
Speaker 1: it by reinforcing him in the way that presenters like
Speaker 1: to be responded to. So, how do you what do
Speaker 1: you want to see when you're presenting? You want to
Speaker 1: see smiles and applause and nodding yeah exactly. So that's
Speaker 1: all they did. He had no idea what was going on.
Speaker 1: When he moved to the left, one step to the left,
Speaker 1: they just nodded and smiled, and then when he stopped,
Speaker 1: they stopped. That's it. B. F. Skinner, legendary psychologist, spoke
Speaker 1: tucked into the left harbor wherever you were speaking, right,
Speaker 1: And so you know, it's simply you know, making getting
Speaker 1: And this is what depression is about. Whatever one people
Speaker 1: want to say about depression, depression is about the lack
Speaker 1: of reinforcement in your life. You're not getting enough positive reinforcement.
Speaker 1: And so what a great therapist is going to help
Speaker 1: you to do is forget about what happened in the past. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's talk about getting you in a position to receive
Speaker 1: reinforcement in your life. Where does that come from? Not
Speaker 1: inside your apartment? Right, just not there, right, You're never
Speaker 1: going to find that reinforcement. Like you know what, I
Speaker 1: always jove of people a quarter to people come in
Speaker 1: to tell me, Hey, I want to find a romantic partner.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I can tell you one thing where they're not.
Speaker 1: They're not in your apartment. You're not going to find them, right,
Speaker 1: So like, we gotta we gotta get out, We got
Speaker 1: to start moving and shaking, and we're going to figure
Speaker 1: out ways to do that. That dove tails with another thing,
Speaker 1: not just looking for a partner, but I am I feel,
Speaker 1: you know, one of the things I've been asked. I
Speaker 1: just finished the giant press tour for a Good Person,
Speaker 1: and one thing that kept coming up was, um, what
Speaker 1: are the themes in overarching themes that that that journalists
Speaker 1: were seeing in my in my three films, UM, Garden State,
Speaker 1: which I was here, which I always mentioned, I wrote
Speaker 1: with my brother Adam, who's a brilliant writer, and now
Speaker 1: the latest one A Good Person, And so it's caused
Speaker 1: me to examine. It's something I really looked at. But
Speaker 1: I was again thinking about it in the tub last night,
Speaker 1: where I do my great thinking, and I was thinking
Speaker 1: that for me, it's it's about looking for The theme
Speaker 1: is looking for human connection, and it really comes out
Speaker 1: of my my my loneliness. UM that I've felt my
Speaker 1: whole life very even even when I'm surrounded by people
Speaker 1: and friends and others, I have felt different and other
Speaker 1: than and very lonesome. And so I think all three
Speaker 1: films are are are about yearning for a deeper connection
Speaker 1: to someone hmm. And and I think the response to
Speaker 1: this film, um, since it's come out, and and and
Speaker 1: the messages the beautiful, heartfelt messages and commons I'm getting
Speaker 1: on Instagram and and and other social media platforms. I'm
Speaker 1: seeing this connection to that obviously to grief and to
Speaker 1: addiction and to but I feel people really tapping into
Speaker 1: that yearning for a deep connection to other human beings. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, all your films are certainly about that. For
Speaker 1: I'm just curious, though, you know what, what's your hope
Speaker 1: for what this film does? How does it? What does
Speaker 1: it bring out in people? And what will what will
Speaker 1: how will they walk away after seeing it? I hope
Speaker 1: that they feel less lonesome, I mean, or or just
Speaker 1: or just that they see themselves in the movie. I mean,
Speaker 1: the movie is obviously an extreme it's it's it's no secret,
Speaker 1: it's in the trailer. It's about a vehicular manslaughter and
Speaker 1: and and how that affects the lives of these two families.
Speaker 1: And now, God willing the audience won't have something that
Speaker 1: extreme in their in their life, but they will. Everyone
Speaker 1: grieves something, Everyone has a pain in their heart about something,
Speaker 1: and I and I hope that they that they that
Speaker 1: they go and experience it and um and and feel
Speaker 1: less a little bit a smige and less alone that
Speaker 1: there's other people, Because when I'm really depressed and anxious
Speaker 1: and lonesome and I just feel I just feel like
Speaker 1: I'm the only one feeling those things. I know in
Speaker 1: them in the macro that's ridiculous. I know that we're
Speaker 1: all human beings, but but but that's what you feel,
Speaker 1: that's what's overwhelming feeling. So I hope that people see
Speaker 1: this and feel um see themselves and feel seen and
Speaker 1: feel less lonesome. That's what I really hope. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: I'm you know, what do you think people would be
Speaker 1: surprised to know about you that that led to this film,
Speaker 1: that led to this coming out, and led to this
Speaker 1: come into fruition. I think probably that I've suffered from depression.
Speaker 1: I mean that's something I just spoke about him really
Speaker 1: openly for the first time on the Rich Role Podcast,
Speaker 1: which is a podcast I really recommend everybody. It's my
Speaker 1: favorite podcast other than this one, obviously, But Rich Role
Speaker 1: is just a fantastic interviewer, and he's he's just a
Speaker 1: guy who wasn't addict and he turned his whole life around,
Speaker 1: and then he became like one of those marathoners who
Speaker 1: runs like insane marathons, and now he's just I don't know,
Speaker 1: he's just a I saw him the other night and
Speaker 1: I said, you're like my rabbi, Like I think I
Speaker 1: was like, I think you're I think what you do
Speaker 1: for me in my life is what a rabbi is
Speaker 1: supposed to do for Jewish people, because I just find
Speaker 1: him so inspiring. And but anyway, I'm rambling. Um, that's
Speaker 1: what I think that people would be surprised to know.
Speaker 1: Because I'm known for being a a comic actor. I'm
Speaker 1: known for being silly. I come and do this show,
Speaker 1: for example, and you know, throughout the pandemic, there were
Speaker 1: times when I was really, really really depressed. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: Nick was dying, Amanda's was fifty feet away in my
Speaker 1: guesthouse in a ball crying, and I was very very sad.
Speaker 1: And I would psych myself up to to be funny
Speaker 1: on this podcast because I want to entertain people. I
Speaker 1: get joy. I do get joy from making people laugh
Speaker 1: and entertaining them, and I get I get a dopamine
Speaker 1: high from feeling like Donald and I and Joel and
Speaker 1: Daniel were funny, and I hopefully made people laugh and
Speaker 1: made them feel good. But I certainly. Um. I think
Speaker 1: that's the biggest surprise people would probably think, is that
Speaker 1: I you know that I've suffered my whole life from
Speaker 1: from depression and anxiety and and and it's actively working
Speaker 1: on actively working on it with you to to be
Speaker 1: able to tackle it better. I mean, I'm just listening
Speaker 1: to what you're saying about the Rich Role podcasts and
Speaker 1: the marathon and what he does, and I just think
Speaker 1: of you and your life, and you certainly have run
Speaker 1: a marathon through COVID and through all those things that
Speaker 1: you experienced. What what has allowed you to do that?
Speaker 1: I mean, how have you, in our work and on
Speaker 1: your own been able to get through that and then
Speaker 1: use that to produce I think, thank you. That's a
Speaker 1: great question. I think I really just focused on. You know,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you a story I'd never told anyone, and
Speaker 1: that is that I don't know why this is my
Speaker 1: answer right away, but I you know this, but no
Speaker 1: one knows this. I was super sick in the beginning
Speaker 1: of January. I got so I got strapped throat so
Speaker 1: the worst I've ever had. It was so painful, I
Speaker 1: couldn't even swallow water. I mean, I didn't know you
Speaker 1: could get strapped, throught this bad and think I think
Speaker 1: I had scarlet fever because I had a rash on
Speaker 1: my stomach and I was like googling, Yeah, I was
Speaker 1: googling rash. I finally was like rash and the strep
Speaker 1: throat and it said scarlet fever. And I was like,
Speaker 1: I got a fucking scarlet fever. And I tried to
Speaker 1: convince my doctor. I was like, he's like, you wouldn't
Speaker 1: get scarlet fever. That's for children in This's like rare.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I have fucking scarlet fever, dude. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I ever convinced him, but anyway,
Speaker 1: so I was so sick and I was so sad,
Speaker 1: and I was so alone, and I remember just lying
Speaker 1: on this heating pad because it was the only thing
Speaker 1: that felt good. I didn't even have my dog with
Speaker 1: me to I mean, I was just it was a
Speaker 1: low point. And anyway, I put on this Burnet Brown
Speaker 1: YouTube ted talk about vulnerability, which has gone viral for years.
Speaker 1: If you haven't seen it, it's it's it's what broke
Speaker 1: Brenee Brown as a self help guru if you will,
Speaker 1: I don't know what you call her but she's amazing.
Speaker 1: And it was her first TED talk and it was
Speaker 1: about vulnerability and I just started sobbing. I just started crying.
Speaker 1: Granted I was very sensitive and very sick, but I
Speaker 1: just what she was saying about being vulnerable and having
Speaker 1: the courage to be vulnerable. Um, I just felt this tears.
Speaker 1: I cried for the whole thing. And uh. And so
Speaker 1: I think that that obviously tapped into something for me.
Speaker 1: And that's where it's a similar place that the movie
Speaker 1: came out of. It was like, what if I, you know,
Speaker 1: just wrote something that was incredibly vulnerable. You know, the
Speaker 1: story of a good person is not my exact story,
Speaker 1: but all the emotions and the feelings and the everything
Speaker 1: that's that is the support structure of the plot is
Speaker 1: my story. Yeah. And I think in what you've made too,
Speaker 1: I mean, it just it speaks to the fact that
Speaker 1: everybody has a struggle, um, and that it speaks to
Speaker 1: the fact that we're all experiencing and have experienced over
Speaker 1: this past couple of years loss. I mean, if you haven't,
Speaker 1: if you haven't experienced loss in the past couple of years,
Speaker 1: in some way, you probably weren't awake to what was
Speaker 1: going on, Well, wasn't even men. You needn't even be death. Um,
Speaker 1: it could be just the the this. I think we're
Speaker 1: all in, I mean, this PTSD from what happened, and
Speaker 1: we're all moving on, like, Okay, that was crazy. And
Speaker 1: I really think. I was talking to my mom about this,
Speaker 1: who's also a psychologist. She's been on the podcast, and
Speaker 1: I was talking about last night because we were trying
Speaker 1: to analyze this and this beautiful audience response, and my
Speaker 1: mom was saying kind of like, I think that there's
Speaker 1: a there is a collective grief in society that that
Speaker 1: people might not even know is there within them, and
Speaker 1: that that could be from their very real life experience,
Speaker 1: of course, or or it could be just from the
Speaker 1: experience of the trauma of COVID. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I think what's what's the story within the story here
Speaker 1: is you know, you were asking me about changing behaviors
Speaker 1: and about dealing with grief and about dealing with depression
Speaker 1: and overcoming it and how cogn behavioral therapy is a
Speaker 1: method for that. But the whole arc of making this
Speaker 1: movie was in fact all of that. For you. It
Speaker 1: was it was quite a journey, you know, and and
Speaker 1: it's this audience has been along for the whole ride,
Speaker 1: you know, guys, Joel and Daniel I started talking when
Speaker 1: we started the podcast. I thought he was telling even
Speaker 1: writing it for a long time. Let's take a We'll
Speaker 1: be right back after these fine words. You guys have
Speaker 1: any questions for the doc, I don't mean to hog
Speaker 1: expensive doctor's time. You guys, it was really fascinating to
Speaker 1: hear the two of you talk, so please to apologize. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so okay, I, similar to Zach, have depression. Um I
Speaker 1: noticed it at like sixteen, but I also had add
Speaker 1: which was also undiagnosed. So I got diagnosed with depression
Speaker 1: when I was thirty and with add when I was
Speaker 1: thirty one. And when I started therapy. You know, my
Speaker 1: first therapist was a lot like you. She was like,
Speaker 1: all right, let's figure out what the problem is. Let's
Speaker 1: really make a plan, let's go get it. And I
Speaker 1: was instansed. I was like, I'm hurting, I don't know
Speaker 1: how to start trying. I'm so angry and still confused,
Speaker 1: and I'm still trying to get medicated despite being diagnosed.
Speaker 1: It was like a whole process and it was frustrating
Speaker 1: for me, so I went through two years of just
Speaker 1: the emotional kind of therapy, the let's just dive deep
Speaker 1: and just talk about your past and all of that stuff.
Speaker 1: And then at some point I was like, this is
Speaker 1: not changing anything. So like on a new therapist, cognitive
Speaker 1: behavioral therapist who helped me change and grow a lot.
Speaker 1: But I say all that to ask, is there a
Speaker 1: headspace you need to be in or a thing you
Speaker 1: need to have done in order to be ready for CBT?
Speaker 1: This is such a great question. I really I love
Speaker 1: this question. I'm already married, but I would marry this
Speaker 1: question if I wasn't there. I love this question because
Speaker 1: you know, I think by our discussing this, you're really
Speaker 1: going to help a lot of people. Look, the main
Speaker 1: advice I have about therapists is if you feel like
Speaker 1: your therapist doesn't like you, fire them. And not to
Speaker 1: say that this therapist and you didn't get along, but
Speaker 1: you know, if there's not mutual likability, meaning you don't
Speaker 1: feel understood, forget, it doesn't matter what kind of therapy
Speaker 1: they do they can do. You know, I don't know
Speaker 1: scarlet fever therapy. It doesn't matter very like they're not
Speaker 1: the right person, and so what the research the science
Speaker 1: shows us is the biggest effect of therapy is feeling
Speaker 1: understood by the therapist and that there's mutual well you know,
Speaker 1: likability and positive regard and so that's just like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like when I there was this club, the Palladium
Speaker 1: that I in New York City growing up, and I
Speaker 1: would go there. They'd be these amazing drag queens out front.
Speaker 1: I would go up to the front and try to
Speaker 1: get in, and they'd be like you you and look
Speaker 1: at me and dead in my face and be like
Speaker 1: not you. So you know that later on Zach will
Speaker 1: worked that out with me. But anyway, so they have this,
Speaker 1: they have these these little ropes, right, the velvet ropes.
Speaker 1: You can't get into a great therapy relationship unless you
Speaker 1: get past that. And the entry fee is empathy. You
Speaker 1: need to be able to show and demonstrate understanding of
Speaker 1: the person and connect with them. It doesn't matter what
Speaker 1: kind of therapy you do, right, And so I would say,
Speaker 1: you know, to me, it's sort of seventy percent that
Speaker 1: to your point, and thirty percent the techniques, right, and
Speaker 1: so you know, you should find a therapist that you
Speaker 1: feel like understands you. And a lot of the research
Speaker 1: also shows because is such a great question, I could
Speaker 1: nerd out on this forever and I think it's really helpful.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, you got to be able to
Speaker 1: do two things as a great coach. You have to
Speaker 1: first be able to connect and demonstrate an understanding and
Speaker 1: the hurt. Acknowledge the hurt, and show the person you
Speaker 1: get the hurt. Only then will you be able to
Speaker 1: teach or give skills. I'll tell one other story about this,
Speaker 1: because your your question like unfull, you know, sort of
Speaker 1: opened a door. But I was once in the clubhouse
Speaker 1: of a professional sports organization and I was there and
Speaker 1: there was a rookie. He was really struggling. This is
Speaker 1: a guy who's just starting in sports, right, it's really struggling.
Speaker 1: And I was newer at the field, and I was
Speaker 1: just going after him. I was like, hey, man, why
Speaker 1: do you try this? Why do you try that? Why
Speaker 1: do you try that? And there was a veteran there
Speaker 1: who knew me right and for a long time, and
Speaker 1: he just sauntered over. Afterwards, the kid was like listening
Speaker 1: and he was like, you know, playing my game, and
Speaker 1: then he walked away and the veteran just like, look, Fader,
Speaker 1: people have to know that you care before they care
Speaker 1: what you know, and that just like stuck with me.
Speaker 1: It's a cool I think Roosevelt said it or something,
Speaker 1: but that's stuck with me forever. To your point, well,
Speaker 1: like this isn't even about therapy, it's it's about teaching.
Speaker 1: You know, if Daniel's teaching someone else audio video stuff,
Speaker 1: It's like if the person doesn't feel like you really
Speaker 1: care about them, it doesn't matter what you say. It
Speaker 1: doesn't matter the instruction, it doesn't matter the thing. So
Speaker 1: your question is also just like a hammering home point, like,
Speaker 1: find someone that you feel like cares about you and
Speaker 1: that you care about you can develop relationship. There's instant
Speaker 1: good feeling. Well within the first meeting, I feel that
Speaker 1: you care very much about me, and I do. Man,
Speaker 1: I trust you, and I feel like you're rooting I do.
Speaker 1: I mean, the coach analogy is so strong. I feel
Speaker 1: like you're rooting for me. Another really powerful thing that
Speaker 1: I get out of our relationship is that I feel
Speaker 1: accountable to you. I'm not going to let you down
Speaker 1: because I know. It's like just like an athlete doesn't
Speaker 1: want to let their coach down and their team captain down.
Speaker 1: I don't want to let you down. So if I
Speaker 1: committed to you that I'm going to write, you know,
Speaker 1: Monday through Friday for three hours a day, and then
Speaker 1: I'll text him like I did it, or I'll send
Speaker 1: him pages. We have this relationship where it's like I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna not send him pages because I don't want
Speaker 1: to disappoint him. And I think that's really great, a
Speaker 1: really powerful thing. And you don't have to you know,
Speaker 1: you don't have to be in therapy to do it. Obviously,
Speaker 1: you can do it with your partner, you could do
Speaker 1: it with a friend. But if you're trying to start
Speaker 1: a new habit really being accountable to another person that
Speaker 1: you don't want to let down, that you can made
Speaker 1: a commitment to. Let's say you're trying to do sobriety
Speaker 1: for a month, or you're trying to um, you know, write,
Speaker 1: or you're trying to you know, eat less. Whatever your
Speaker 1: thing is that you have some sort of person. It
Speaker 1: could be a therapist, it could be a parent, it
Speaker 1: could be a friend, it could be a partner that
Speaker 1: you're accountable to and that you don't want to disappoint
Speaker 1: and that obviously you're honest with because if you're lying
Speaker 1: with the hell's the point, right, Yeah, I mean you
Speaker 1: know what you're saying is so valuable, Zach, because not
Speaker 1: everybody listening is going to go to therapy for whatever
Speaker 1: reason right now, well some can't afford it. We should
Speaker 1: say we we we advertise better help on here, which
Speaker 1: I think is a is a new and affordable way
Speaker 1: for people to seek out therapy. So obviously, um, you know,
Speaker 1: I have a great privilege in being able to have
Speaker 1: you in my life, so I do want to acknowledge that.
Speaker 1: But there are ways to reach out to people and
Speaker 1: and sometimes for those who can't, um, it could be
Speaker 1: as simple as reaching out to a friend, not not
Speaker 1: a friend who's going to give you bad advice. You
Speaker 1: know who that person is, don't sort of you everyone
Speaker 1: listening knows who's the friend not to go to. But
Speaker 1: but but but just being in communication and sharing and
Speaker 1: being honest and authentic that I've gotten just so much.
Speaker 1: You know. My sort of word for my year now
Speaker 1: is is vulnerability. Obviously, releasing a movie to the world
Speaker 1: is the most vulnerable thing I can do is in
Speaker 1: my profession, and it's it did take a lot of
Speaker 1: courage to to just release something and then you know,
Speaker 1: have and just show it to the world and have
Speaker 1: everyone way in on it. But anyone who's listening's life,
Speaker 1: whether it be as small as having a scary conversation
Speaker 1: you're dreading or or you know, it's all about vulnerability.
Speaker 1: It's all about saying, I'm going to do this because
Speaker 1: I'm going to be authentically myself and I'm going to
Speaker 1: allow myself to be vulnerable and I'm going to do it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean I had I had a therapist
Speaker 1: actually who once said to me, this is maybe twenty
Speaker 1: years ago, who said, look, you know people people often
Speaker 1: regret the things that they didn't do, not the things
Speaker 1: they did. And um, and that made a lot of
Speaker 1: sense to me. And I think, you know, what do
Speaker 1: people who regret later in life? Mostly there are regrets
Speaker 1: around relationships. Um. And when you speak about the word vulnerability,
Speaker 1: you know, we all have someone in our life that
Speaker 1: we could you know, finish this podcast and and be
Speaker 1: more authentic too. Maybe they're a friend, maybe they're a partner,
Speaker 1: But you know, I think there's so much My experience
Speaker 1: has been that that finding the people that you can
Speaker 1: build a little bit more clear already in vulnerability with
Speaker 1: It's just such an enriching part of our lives to
Speaker 1: be able to do that. I just a question for you,
Speaker 1: and don't know, maybe maybe you cut this and this
Speaker 1: is just a real we never talked about this, but
Speaker 1: you know, how do you know that I care about you?
Speaker 1: What are the things that that happened that make you
Speaker 1: feel that way. I feel that you're authentic, and I
Speaker 1: feel that you're genuinely interested, and I feel that you're
Speaker 1: rooting for me, and I feel no matter sometimes I
Speaker 1: fall down and I don't come through with something I
Speaker 1: committed to you that I was going to do, or
Speaker 1: I tried every technique you gave me and I still
Speaker 1: felt depressed. But I always feel like you're You're in
Speaker 1: my corner. You're like you're in if I was a boxer.
Speaker 1: You're the guy that's pushing that weird thing on my
Speaker 1: forehead and whatever that things. I don't even I don't
Speaker 1: even know what that thing does. I get the sponge,
Speaker 1: I don't get that weird push down on your forehead thing,
Speaker 1: but um, I don't know. That's it. That's it and
Speaker 1: I and I and I know that you are because
Speaker 1: um you you root for me. I feel like you
Speaker 1: you're You're one of my biggest champions, so I want
Speaker 1: to thank you. Don't worry everyone, We're going back to
Speaker 1: a comedy podcast. Some of the fans right now are like,
Speaker 1: oh fuck, no, I promise you this will not be therapy.
Speaker 1: Next week we're gonna have Donald back and we will
Speaker 1: be playing the bong hit noise on the sound effects
Speaker 1: just to prove it to you. You're gonna kick off
Speaker 1: the real doctors. Hold on, I gotta get the bong
Speaker 1: effects so every no one freaks out talk one second.
Speaker 1: Yeah there it is every the show here in honor
Speaker 1: of Donald's what you're trying to get into one day,
Speaker 1: shoon what you're trying to do. All right, we'll be
Speaker 1: back being funny next week. I want to think, doctor Favorite.
Speaker 1: I do want to plug your book because you've an
Speaker 1: awesome book. Um and uh it's called remind me what
Speaker 1: it's called, because I forget Life is Sport and I
Speaker 1: know you're writing a new one, Um, but check out
Speaker 1: Life is Sport if you want to read some of
Speaker 1: these amazing wisdoms from this gentleman who's helped me so
Speaker 1: much I genuinely did from the bottom of my heart.
Speaker 1: I couldn't have written this film without you, and so
Speaker 1: thank you. And I couldn't have written without this podcast
Speaker 1: to be honest, Joelle and Daniel, because um, it made
Speaker 1: me laugh and it was a hit of dopamine every
Speaker 1: every week when we do it. So thank you guys
Speaker 1: and audience. Um, thanks for listening, and thanks for a
Speaker 1: welcoming doctor Fader into our community. And um, check out
Speaker 1: a good person. If you haven't seen, it'll only be
Speaker 1: in theaters a little while obviously, and then and then
Speaker 1: it'll come on streaming. But I do think, um, there's
Speaker 1: something really powerful about seeing it in the theater. It is.
Speaker 1: Um there's something communal about about experiencing the emotions that
Speaker 1: come up with this with friends, with family, with a
Speaker 1: partner in a in a movie theater setting. So you'll
Speaker 1: only have a couple of weeks in order to do that,
Speaker 1: and um, it just expanded this weekend tonight, I should say,
Speaker 1: because we're airing this on the thirty first of March,
Speaker 1: right DAYLD. So that's it. We love you. Anything else
Speaker 1: you guys want to say, no, come back next Tuesday.
Speaker 1: We'll be here, you know. What actually I think. First
Speaker 1: of all, this is thanks so much for having me on.
Speaker 1: It was really great to talk to all of you.
Speaker 1: And you know, I love the questions that you had. Actually,
Speaker 1: I think it would be helpful, Zach, just briefly if
Speaker 1: you want to talk about the behavioral things you did
Speaker 1: to write the book. I think that would be really
Speaker 1: interesting to people. I mean, to write the script. I
Speaker 1: mean yeah, I mean I think, you know, just talking
Speaker 1: a little bit about what, you know, what were the
Speaker 1: ways that you got it done. Everybody, everybody who's listening here,
Speaker 1: you know, almost to a person is trying to get
Speaker 1: something done right. They're trying to lose weight, they're trying
Speaker 1: to quit drinking, they're trying to speak differently their partner,
Speaker 1: they're trying to write their own screenplay, whatever it is.
Speaker 1: They're trying to get something done. And you know, you
Speaker 1: you really became a master of some of these techniques
Speaker 1: that you and I worked on to well master no
Speaker 1: by no means master, but thank you. Um. I just
Speaker 1: practiced what you taught me, and that was some one. Well,
Speaker 1: the biggest, most basic thing is is committing making a
Speaker 1: commitment to do it every day. Um, just like you
Speaker 1: make you make a commitment, an important commitment to to
Speaker 1: do anything in your life. When you know you commit
Speaker 1: to someone in marriage, it's a serious commitment. UM. I
Speaker 1: committed to doctor Fader and to myself that I was
Speaker 1: going to write five days a week for a certain
Speaker 1: amount of hours, and that even if I was staring
Speaker 1: at the blinking cursor and and saying to myself, you suck,
Speaker 1: this sucks, I suck that I was still going to
Speaker 1: show up and be vulnerable. And some days it would
Speaker 1: go great and some days it wouldn't. Um, But I
Speaker 1: always I was keeping my commitment. I I and I
Speaker 1: would say to him, and he Doctor Fader always says,
Speaker 1: there's there's great power in a streak. Meaning if I've
Speaker 1: done that commitment and I've really wrote five days in
Speaker 1: a row, on Monday, I'm gonna I'm gonna start again
Speaker 1: because I don't want to mess up my streak. If
Speaker 1: you're trying to go sober and you made it five days,
Speaker 1: you don't want to mess up your streak. It's exciting,
Speaker 1: you know, I've told I think I've spoken about this
Speaker 1: on the podcast before, where I would take something as
Speaker 1: simple as a paper calendar. You guys can do this
Speaker 1: for free, and you don't. I use stickers, but if
Speaker 1: you don't want to pay for stickers, use a pencil.
Speaker 1: And I would just go. I would give at the
Speaker 1: end of the day. When I was when I was
Speaker 1: first attempting uh not you know, not drinking from month,
Speaker 1: I would uh, I would give myself a smiley face
Speaker 1: at the end of that day. And I would see
Speaker 1: all the smiley faces and I'd be like, I'm not
Speaker 1: sucking up my smiley face streets. So it's so simple.
Speaker 1: And I told I sold this to rich Role and
Speaker 1: he was like, it's so funny, how reptilian, he said,
Speaker 1: our brains are. It's just that we want that. We
Speaker 1: want that, We want that fucking smile. It's like when
Speaker 1: you're potty training your kids, you know, I know people
Speaker 1: use stickers, like if you you you get a sticker
Speaker 1: on the day, if you use the potty or whatever.
Speaker 1: We still my brain, at a pretty six at the time,
Speaker 1: was like, I'm not fucking not getting that smiley face.
Speaker 1: I want that. So even stuff like that really helped
Speaker 1: me going for a streak. Getting affirmation, sending the pages
Speaker 1: to to friends and then getting feedback from them always
Speaker 1: felt good. When I would people in my writing community,
Speaker 1: I would send a scene to and be like, hey,
Speaker 1: can I get your thoughts? And so getting that feedback
Speaker 1: was helpful. It would it would inspire me when they
Speaker 1: were like this is great, oh my gosh, keep going.
Speaker 1: But really showing up, you know, showing up every day,
Speaker 1: no matter how I felt, was was the key. It's
Speaker 1: so huge. I mean, the gamification of your task is key.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, people of what I've done with
Speaker 1: some people, just have them order a light bright you know,
Speaker 1: twelve dollars online and just every day that you do
Speaker 1: your thing, you put a little light bright key into
Speaker 1: the light right right, No, it's good. It's the cheapest
Speaker 1: you can do it. So this money money can't be
Speaker 1: your excuse if you don't want my free version. If
Speaker 1: you don't want my free version, no, my mind version
Speaker 1: is free. Everyone should have a pencil. If not, just
Speaker 1: pick your finger and use blood. I'm just kidding, but
Speaker 1: you can. Anybody can print a paper calendar off the internet.
Speaker 1: But but if you want to spend seven bucks, you
Speaker 1: can buy a light break. Go ahead, doctor Fader, Yeah,
Speaker 1: do it. And I mean I think, look, the reality
Speaker 1: is that you know just by having simple gamification and
Speaker 1: also connecting it. You don't have to have a therapist,
Speaker 1: radio a therapist of coach, but finding someone. The science
Speaker 1: shows if you say out loud to someone what you're
Speaker 1: intending to do, and they hear it and they know it,
Speaker 1: you're much more likely to complete it. And so just
Speaker 1: those two simple things or things that anyone listening here
Speaker 1: can do and make it much more likely that you're
Speaker 1: going to complete your goal. All right, On that note,
Speaker 1: m I know that we only had you for the hour,
Speaker 1: So thank you so much. You're incredible. Life as Sport
Speaker 1: is the book. Thank you, doctor Jonathan Vader, I love you,
Speaker 1: dwelling dal And that's our show, Bob six seven eight
Speaker 1: stories about show we made about a bunch of doctor
Speaker 1: nurses and a janitor who learned him. I said, he's
Speaker 1: the stories natural should know. So gada around you here,
Speaker 1: are YadA around you here? As free watch shows that
Speaker 1: no mm hmmm