Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
Speaker 1: the podcast where we discussed some of the big life
Speaker 1: changes and transitions of our twenties and what they mean
Speaker 1: for our psychology. Welcome back to the podcast everyone, Thank
Speaker 1: you for joining us again this week. We've got a
Speaker 1: pretty exciting episode going on today and a very special guest.
Speaker 1: Welcome Cloudia. Hi Jamma, thanks for having me. Oh that's okay.
Speaker 1: So how do we know each other before we get
Speaker 1: into what we're talking about? So so well, we've worked
Speaker 1: at Boost together. Yeah, when we both lived in Melbourne. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like five five years ago. Yeah, or five years ago. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when you were still in high school. Yeah. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I was literally such a baby, and you guys really
Speaker 1: took me under your wing as your manager for a bit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know you were my manager and I used to
Speaker 1: always steal protein books. Yeah. But listening, I wonder what
Speaker 1: he's doing right now. I don't know. Hopefully he's happy.
Speaker 1: I think his Boost juice shut down for Health Code violence.
Speaker 1: It's most likely, but that's another story. But basically, Carter
Speaker 1: and I knew each other when I was significantly younger.
Speaker 1: You were also the age of being younger, but I
Speaker 1: was a little and newer, a bit older than me.
Speaker 1: And then I moved to Sydney and we went out
Speaker 1: for dinner the other night, and as you do, we
Speaker 1: were like updating each other on literally four years of
Speaker 1: our lives, and we started talking about our relationships as
Speaker 1: you do. Um, and one in particular for you yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: one of my yeah relationship for a few years ago. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it wasn't healthy, just like the least. No. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was listening to in like genuine shock. Literally, yeah, I
Speaker 1: was speechless, and I was like, you know what this
Speaker 1: is like something so prominent, like so common, especially in
Speaker 1: your twenties, definitely, like we were talking about when you
Speaker 1: don't have boundaries for yourself yet, you don't really know
Speaker 1: who you want, you're still discovering dating and everything. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I also think it's really important because you don't really
Speaker 1: know what it's like until you get into something, and
Speaker 1: people don't talk about it enough I think. So I
Speaker 1: was like, come on board, Yeah, let's talk about toxic
Speaker 1: abusive relationships in our twenties, especially for like we were saying,
Speaker 1: we can only really speak to a like a female perspective,
Speaker 1: and we aren't therapists. No, no, we're not, so obviously
Speaker 1: we both have degrees in psychology. Yeah, and I just
Speaker 1: finished my honors in psychology last year. Actually my research
Speaker 1: was in this kind of area as well. Yeah, should
Speaker 1: I link your fasis so if if you want to
Speaker 1: read it, Oh, it's not it's not published. Damn it's
Speaker 1: so good. I like it. And I was like, oh incredible. Um,
Speaker 1: but yes, so obviously we're not licensed therapist. Yeah, but yes,
Speaker 1: I do have an honest degree, Yeah, psychology in this area,
Speaker 1: in this area. So like I was reading her thesis
Speaker 1: and I was like, this is like you know, I
Speaker 1: always try and make the episodes like really kind of
Speaker 1: research based, and I think, like my I didn't really
Speaker 1: want to do this episode. I think alone and like
Speaker 1: not have like someone else who kind of bounce ideas
Speaker 1: off of or another experience. Definitely. Um, so this just
Speaker 1: seemed like the perfect guests to have. Yes, so we're
Speaker 1: going to get into a day talk all about toxic relationships.
Speaker 1: So we've given you the whole story of how this
Speaker 1: episode came to be. Um, we were having dinner and
Speaker 1: we were talking about relationships and Clardia, would you like
Speaker 1: to kind of give a bit of yeah, like that
Speaker 1: story into what we were talking about. Yeah, yeah, but
Speaker 1: I was just telling Jamma. So UM. I moved to
Speaker 1: Sydney UM in twenty eighteen for UNI. UM. It was
Speaker 1: my first year of UNI. I was living on campus. UM,
Speaker 1: so like a whole street of houses that were all
Speaker 1: UNI students, UM. And the house next door to mine
Speaker 1: was like had a house of eight UM and there
Speaker 1: was UM one of the people living in the house. UM.
Speaker 1: He was an exchange student. And you know, being the
Speaker 1: house next door, we kind of became friends whatever. UM
Speaker 1: hung out a bit. UM. I kind of you know,
Speaker 1: knew what he was like, you know, you kind of
Speaker 1: tell I think we'll get into that a bit more later.
Speaker 1: But you know, very charming. UM. We're playing friends. And
Speaker 1: because I kind of, yeah, I rejected him like pretty
Speaker 1: like yeah yeah, Like he kind of came on. I
Speaker 1: was like, no, like I had already he dealt with
Speaker 1: little experiences of just kind of you know, crappy dating experiences.
Speaker 1: So I was like, nah, I'm like here to kind
Speaker 1: of study and have fun. But because he was my friend,
Speaker 1: or I considered him a friend at the time, UM,
Speaker 1: you know, I think he invited me out for breakfast
Speaker 1: one day, just as friends, so I thought, and it
Speaker 1: kind of conturned I guess more intimate very fast. Um.
Speaker 1: And I kind of thought because if we were friends
Speaker 1: and he'd actually tried for a few months at this
Speaker 1: point to kind of get to know me and everything,
Speaker 1: like I obviously found him attractive. Um, I was like, sure,
Speaker 1: maybe this could be a thing, like maybe I judge
Speaker 1: it too harshly, or maybe because he's actually putting an effort,
Speaker 1: and yes, he could have that tendencies, but if he
Speaker 1: really likes me, you know, it kind of was a
Speaker 1: whole like he's going to abandon being a fun boy
Speaker 1: for me. Yeah I can change, Yeah, I can be
Speaker 1: the one you know very much wanting to be that.
Speaker 1: And so when I kind of had my brain switched
Speaker 1: kind of to that and very quickly, I was kind
Speaker 1: of in it and I wanted it and I wanted
Speaker 1: to be that. Um. And there were lots of things
Speaker 1: that happened throughout the year. Um, you know, we never
Speaker 1: made it, but one of the things was never established
Speaker 1: that we were official. We never wanted to put a
Speaker 1: label on it. Yeah, you know, so the typical kind
Speaker 1: of he could still get away with things under the
Speaker 1: guise of there's no label, we're not official, you're not
Speaker 1: my girlfriend so much, you know, I considered it in
Speaker 1: my head. It very much was in my head. I
Speaker 1: wasn't seeing anyone else, I wasn't interested in anyone else.
Speaker 1: I was committed like I would be committed in a
Speaker 1: normal relationship, and that's what I wanted. Yea. But you know,
Speaker 1: to him it was fun in games. Really to him,
Speaker 1: I was who knows, who knows what I was to
Speaker 1: h him, I don't know, I don't know. I probably
Speaker 1: think he doesn't even know. He sounds like such a Yeah,
Speaker 1: I still don't know to this day. But that's something
Speaker 1: you have to accept when you get into this. Um.
Speaker 1: But so basically he would kind of bring on every
Speaker 1: month or a couple of months that he went on
Speaker 1: a Tinder date or he went on other dates with
Speaker 1: other women, and so every time, um, you know, I
Speaker 1: would hear that and be like, obviously that's not okay. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I am taking this seriously and you're not. So I
Speaker 1: would want to end it. I would want to get
Speaker 1: out of it. And he had this way of making
Speaker 1: me feel bad for him. And this is actually something
Speaker 1: I only realized very recently, I was reading this book
Speaker 1: that my actually now boyfriend gave me my fringe, my thesis,
Speaker 1: who's a sweetheart. Yeah, and so there's a good ending.
Speaker 1: Everyone before you hear all this tragic good ending. I'm
Speaker 1: in a very healthy relationship now. But yeah, but he
Speaker 1: gave me anyways, he gave me this book on kind
Speaker 1: of sociopaths basically, which pretty much what I was dealing
Speaker 1: with unknowingly at the time. And anyway, I was reading
Speaker 1: this book and one of the things that really stuck
Speaker 1: out to me, but I didn't really realize because I
Speaker 1: still never really fully understood what kept me in it.
Speaker 1: Like I knew it, I knew how bad it was.
Speaker 1: And there was a lot of things that happened. There
Speaker 1: was a lot There was a lot that happened that
Speaker 1: were that when you told me, I was like downright abusive, unacceptable.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, make me. I was so angry. I
Speaker 1: was like yeah, and I only imagine, like yeah, anyhow,
Speaker 1: and there was a lot of things. That was a
Speaker 1: lot of things. So every time, and I kind of
Speaker 1: wandered to myself even years after, like still the question lingered,
Speaker 1: like how how did he keep getting me back? I
Speaker 1: was ready. Every single time he said I went on
Speaker 1: to to date I had sex with this person, Like
Speaker 1: every time I was like, that is it. We are done,
Speaker 1: I'm done. I had it all prepared. We would sit
Speaker 1: down to have a chat and somehow I would end
Speaker 1: up after that chat not broken up with him, but
Speaker 1: back with him, yeah, and feeling bad and feeling bad
Speaker 1: for him. And then so when I read this book,
Speaker 1: they said that the number one thing they talked to
Speaker 1: someone who was in jail. He was a known psychopath
Speaker 1: and was a psychologists talking to him, they said, what
Speaker 1: do you most want from someone? And what is it
Speaker 1: that you look for when choosing kind of victims? Almost
Speaker 1: and they thought they were going to say, like, I
Speaker 1: want power, I want money, it's kind of control or whatever.
Speaker 1: He said, I want guilt. I want people to feel guilty,
Speaker 1: because you know what, when someone feels guilty, when someone
Speaker 1: feels sad for someone, all other emotions in a normal
Speaker 1: functioning human brain go, oh my god, it's that powerful
Speaker 1: and that is something that oh my god, that's exactly
Speaker 1: what happened. That's exactly what it did. Because my emotions
Speaker 1: were so this is done, yea, this is done, clear cut,
Speaker 1: like I'm not stupid, because stupid I knew DWN what
Speaker 1: was happening. I couldn't understand. And then I read that
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my god. And you feel
Speaker 1: bad for if you feel pity for someone, Yeah, if
Speaker 1: you feel pity and guilty and kind of you have
Speaker 1: that sadness or pity for someone, you want to kind
Speaker 1: of then make it better. And I want you feel
Speaker 1: bad for them. You think they are actually a nice person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so when they get you, when they you know, it
Speaker 1: was the typical spill of you know, I'm sorry, I'm
Speaker 1: shit like this was what he kept, you know, saying
Speaker 1: every time I'll change. It's the typical eye will change,
Speaker 1: I'll change, I'm sorry. I got to work out my ship,
Speaker 1: gotta you know, I've got ship to work on, la
Speaker 1: la lah. But I will do it. You know, you
Speaker 1: kind of you as a normal person, You think they
Speaker 1: want to work. Yeah, they do. That's what you would
Speaker 1: because that's what I would do. You know. Oh, you
Speaker 1: see they're acknowledging the fact that you want to work
Speaker 1: and they want to change, and you feel pity for them.
Speaker 1: You think, oh, what a sad kind of Oh you've
Speaker 1: had a fucked up charm. Oh you're a bit sad, oh,
Speaker 1: especially you know he was in a new country by himself.
Speaker 1: Oh it is that's a pity party, and that's what
Speaker 1: they want. It's the pity party. Yeah. Well, I was like,
Speaker 1: it's so funny you said that, because back when I
Speaker 1: was like nineteen, I was like seeing this person and
Speaker 1: it's like you said that to me, and I was
Speaker 1: just like, oh my god, that like the exact same thing.
Speaker 1: Like he would always like make up this like really
Speaker 1: tragic reason why I had to come over and see
Speaker 1: him and like comfort him and like literally like basically
Speaker 1: like cuddle cuddle him to sleep, and then he'd be
Speaker 1: like the next morning like oh, hey you can leave now.
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, and I'd be like, oh, I really thought
Speaker 1: that when you feel sad and pity for someone, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's insane. It's it is. It takes over and it
Speaker 1: takes and then they're like oh and you feel bad
Speaker 1: and oh and then the next morning yeah, literally, same
Speaker 1: thing happened, and it's like, oh, I'll kick you out. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I once had this time when he was like, oh,
Speaker 1: something really awful has happened to me, and it was
Speaker 1: my birthday and I went over to this person's apartment
Speaker 1: and I was like, it's everything it came and he's
Speaker 1: like no, and he's like telling me this whole story
Speaker 1: about something tragic, and I was like, okay, like I
Speaker 1: don't even care, it's my birthday. Like I just like,
Speaker 1: I know I should be shitty at you, but like
Speaker 1: I feel so bad for you. And then he as
Speaker 1: soon as I have the opportunity to talk, he goes
Speaker 1: on his phone and he interrupts me and he goes, Oh,
Speaker 1: someone else is actually coming upstairs. Do you mind just
Speaker 1: going and waiting in the bathroom. Yeah, Oh my god.
Speaker 1: And I was like what. He goes like, just go
Speaker 1: and wait in the bar to him, like, my friend
Speaker 1: was coming upstairs and it was another girl he was seeing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it was my bad day. And I was sitting
Speaker 1: in the bathroom and then I just had this realization.
Speaker 1: I was like, what the fuck You do have those realizations? Yeah,
Speaker 1: like you're like what the fuck? Yeah, And like one
Speaker 1: of the what the fuck moments, which really should have
Speaker 1: been the end of the relationship, but for me, was
Speaker 1: after this kind of back and forth. If I'm going
Speaker 1: on tindo dates and I'm going blah, blah blah, but
Speaker 1: I love you whatever. Bullshit. Um. He had a party
Speaker 1: at his house, like all his house ms at a party,
Speaker 1: and he was like to me, oh, I'm going to
Speaker 1: be late, and I was like, you know, it's your house.
Speaker 1: Where will you be? He said again going on the
Speaker 1: Tinder date, which was you know, I'd heard it before,
Speaker 1: and at this point I was just a bit fed up,
Speaker 1: and I was like, all my friends are coming to
Speaker 1: this party. UM, so I just said I'll deal with
Speaker 1: like this later. But whatever you do, I said. In
Speaker 1: one thing that you do, do not bring her back
Speaker 1: to this party. Just don't do it, like you know,
Speaker 1: my friends are going to be here. I'm there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's like I'm there. Even though it even weren't like that,
Speaker 1: says would like it was like, oh but my friends.
Speaker 1: It wasn't even like I'm there. You made this respect
Speaker 1: person say I know anyway, it was anyway, um, and
Speaker 1: he was like, what do you think I'm stupid? Like
Speaker 1: why would I do that? Of course I wouldn't do that.
Speaker 1: And I was like, well I've done many stupid things
Speaker 1: these months, like yeah, all right, but he was like adamant,
Speaker 1: like I would not do that party happens. All my
Speaker 1: friends were literally sitting in the lounge room in a circle,
Speaker 1: all around in a circle. He walks in the bit
Speaker 1: all of us with this girl says hey, just look
Speaker 1: says hey, like so casually, barely acknowledges me, says hey
Speaker 1: and go straight upstairs to have sex with her. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've heard that before, but I still like, what the fuck? Yeah,
Speaker 1: like this just that was really like I would have
Speaker 1: hurt so much. Yeah, and obviously that was hurt underneath her,
Speaker 1: but all that came out was few your anger, so
Speaker 1: angry because most of the four months I was just sad.
Speaker 1: I was sad, you know, and every time this happened,
Speaker 1: on just cry or go to my friends. But this
Speaker 1: time I fucking cracked. Yeah, and I you know, everyone
Speaker 1: looked at me in shock, and everyone was kind of
Speaker 1: like and I didn't know what to do. And my friend,
Speaker 1: you know, that lived in that same house, was like
Speaker 1: in a room at the time, who was running next
Speaker 1: to his room. So I kind of just went upstairs.
Speaker 1: And obviously shanon't just witnessed what happened. So I went
Speaker 1: upstairs to tell her in a very you know, angry tone,
Speaker 1: you know, being like what the fuck, Like he just
Speaker 1: did this, this and this, like, oh my god. So
Speaker 1: I was like pacing back and forth kind of just
Speaker 1: like ranting essentially, and she just sat there like watching this,
Speaker 1: like very you know, this is fair, and then just
Speaker 1: like turned to me and was like a little louder.
Speaker 1: Like his room was right next door. He was in
Speaker 1: there fucking the chick at the time. Louder, louder. She
Speaker 1: tell me to go louder. So I started screaming, yes,
Speaker 1: screaming like fuck you, like fuck your favor, telling me
Speaker 1: that you love me, fuck you for doing this, fuck
Speaker 1: you for this, this and this just everything that came
Speaker 1: about from the past four months for you know, everything.
Speaker 1: And then I end up kicking in his door and
Speaker 1: like fuck you, yeah, and then walk downstairs. And at
Speaker 1: this point a couple of my other friends arrived. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they're like hey, you know, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: not in a mood to socialize, whatsoever. What the fuck happened?
Speaker 1: So I went to the kitchen and signed to explaining
Speaker 1: it to them. Yeah, and then he comes into the
Speaker 1: kitchen and so he's facing me and standing behind my friends.
Speaker 1: I don't see him, Oh, I just see him and
Speaker 1: they obviously realized that I'm looking at someone else, so
Speaker 1: they don't see it's him. They all kaud. They just
Speaker 1: kind of leave us in the kitchen, and I just
Speaker 1: look at him and I'm like, what the fuck is
Speaker 1: wrong with you? Said? What the fuck is wrong with you?
Speaker 1: And all he has to say to that was he
Speaker 1: looks at me, looks at my top that I was wearing.
Speaker 1: It was a red top, looks back up at me,
Speaker 1: a little little smirk on his face, and goes red,
Speaker 1: looks nice on you, and walks out. That's it. That's it.
Speaker 1: After just like shattering my world whatever fancasy I'd left
Speaker 1: of the relationship, but still like yeah, after pretty much
Speaker 1: disrespecting me, and like, yeah, the biggest way I think
Speaker 1: anyone can really disrespect Yeah, Like literally you said like,
Speaker 1: please don't do this, and I literally said, like I
Speaker 1: didn't even address the fact that he was on a
Speaker 1: tender date. Ye gods, don't go on that day. I
Speaker 1: just I wasn't even like, don't go on that date.
Speaker 1: I was like I'll deal with that later because I
Speaker 1: was felt up at this point and I was like
Speaker 1: I just want to have fun, honest, I can't deal
Speaker 1: with this again, and I just said, don't bring her in. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just please, if you do it, go elsewhere if you
Speaker 1: need to, if you need to do go to hers. Yea, honestly,
Speaker 1: go to hers. And we'd do the whole spill again,
Speaker 1: said someone and whatever. Yeah, but like that wasn't the end,
Speaker 1: was no, so you know, it was a start. I
Speaker 1: did block him and cut him off for a couple
Speaker 1: of months, which was I think, you know, it's still
Speaker 1: big to do that at this point. So after that, I,
Speaker 1: you know, I went back to my house for the
Speaker 1: rest of the night and didn't engage in it of it,
Speaker 1: and I did block him on everything and didn't talked
Speaker 1: to him for two months. And it was good. You know,
Speaker 1: I actually see well, you know, I seemed fine, and
Speaker 1: I was fine because there was still a glimmer of hope.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing, Like, it wasn't. Yes, I cut
Speaker 1: him off, and yes I blocked him, Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: knew it was only because I was waiting for him.
Speaker 1: You know, I still wanted him to come to my
Speaker 1: house and I'm sorry, begged for me back, but realized
Speaker 1: what he lost. You know, I cut him off, and
Speaker 1: I wanted him to realize what he had lost so badly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it never happened. It happens, It never happens. I've
Speaker 1: done that so many times it never happened. So obviously
Speaker 1: of two months of being like, I'm fine and cool
Speaker 1: and getting on with my life, but him never do
Speaker 1: you know, never apologizing. I ended up one night drunk
Speaker 1: after a party going back to his and yeah, pretty
Speaker 1: much starting it again. Yeah. Yeah, And that was like
Speaker 1: the second chapter. This was a that was the second
Speaker 1: chapter is yeah, the sequel to it, which essentially was
Speaker 1: just him saying that he was going to commit to
Speaker 1: me this time, which I think do you think he did?
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like at least I didn't know this time,
Speaker 1: Like at the time before he told me that he
Speaker 1: was doing these things, and this time I wasn't aware
Speaker 1: of them, and I was with him a lot more,
Speaker 1: so I don't think so, But again, who fucking knows.
Speaker 1: Who fucking knows anyway, But because he wasn't obviously doing
Speaker 1: it as frequently and we were together a lot more,
Speaker 1: it was a lot more covert then not so overt
Speaker 1: and kind of like, oh, I'm just having sex all
Speaker 1: these women. It was this was when really controlling behaviors
Speaker 1: came the scary behaviors. I would say it wasn't really
Speaker 1: scary before. It was like I'm dealing with a really
Speaker 1: kind of fucked fuck boy. But then it became scary. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was when I was like, I'm in an abusive relationship.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like I was fucking around with this kind
Speaker 1: of toxic fuck boy from you know, exchange ha ha
Speaker 1: ha ha first anythings, This was like real and that's
Speaker 1: when I knew I had to actually find get out.
Speaker 1: And some of you don't have to talk about it,
Speaker 1: but it was like, um yeah, so um put downs
Speaker 1: like insults or insults. I'm very confident in myself as well,
Speaker 1: and he knew that and so he tried to get
Speaker 1: to me anyways. You know. He would he pinched my
Speaker 1: stomach one days, like you to go for a run.
Speaker 1: I said I was an eight out of ten because
Speaker 1: my butt could be better like shit like that, you know,
Speaker 1: which I actually I didn't ever get to me those
Speaker 1: things because I am really confident and I'm attractive, but
Speaker 1: you know, he still wanted to do it. It's still horrible.
Speaker 1: Um what else um oh, behaviors like I wouldn't even
Speaker 1: know what I do, like you don't use don't there's
Speaker 1: no logic to it. But he would go for being
Speaker 1: kind of fine and all right, moved to kind of
Speaker 1: shutting down, going into his room, not talking to me,
Speaker 1: the silent treatment, really falling stone walling at last week. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he did something really horrible to me, um, and he
Speaker 1: told me not to tell my friends about what he did.
Speaker 1: And when I was like, you know, fuck you, my life,
Speaker 1: I do whatever. You know, I told all my friends, yeah,
Speaker 1: because you would, because I would. And I wasn't, you
Speaker 1: know that afraid of him, Like I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: getting there, but I was like, fuck you my friends
Speaker 1: and relationship with my friends, and they still hadn't really
Speaker 1: lied to them much about me being with him. They
Speaker 1: all knew that I was still with him. But when
Speaker 1: he found out that I told my friends, oh my god,
Speaker 1: like complete just like nothing like silence. Um. I was
Speaker 1: like walking in the street with him, like begging him
Speaker 1: to talk to me like anything. I was like, let's
Speaker 1: just discuss this, talk through this like a normal people
Speaker 1: will try to be nothing. Looked at me dead in
Speaker 1: the face when I was like fucking begging him. The
Speaker 1: ddle of the street and just kept walking nothing like
Speaker 1: two days. So manipulative. So just like also the fact
Speaker 1: that he's like now, like what the fuck. It's like
Speaker 1: he can do whatever he wants, like he can bring
Speaker 1: back girls to his house, and like he can like
Speaker 1: do things to you. But as soon as you like access,
Speaker 1: I know yours, you stand in your power, that's then
Speaker 1: it flies off. And there was also like so for instance,
Speaker 1: this is when I started kind of realizing the kind
Speaker 1: of personality had as well. He told me that he
Speaker 1: didn't feel love or hate really, he said he kind
Speaker 1: of never felt much and kind of operate an autopilot.
Speaker 1: So he literally was like I don't know how to
Speaker 1: pretty much. Yeah, And I was like sorry, what yeah,
Speaker 1: because like before I was really like educated myself. You
Speaker 1: know this kind of person which is literally they literally
Speaker 1: even anything, it's just kind of it's only thing essentially. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So it was shocking to grab my head around, like
Speaker 1: what do you mean You're on auto pilot and I
Speaker 1: can't just throw float through the motions of life, like
Speaker 1: I would never feel love for you pretty much. It
Speaker 1: was like I can't love you, I never will and
Speaker 1: I never like feel this, And I was like that's
Speaker 1: what Yeah, you're like. I was like, what do you mean,
Speaker 1: Like you have to write you're a person? Yeah, you
Speaker 1: have to love someone and you have to love something,
Speaker 1: so I thought, um, and so anyway he never told me,
Speaker 1: well he actually did, so he was falling in love
Speaker 1: with me rather start of the relationship. But anyway, yeah, anyway,
Speaker 1: he was like, you know, I got love for you,
Speaker 1: but I'm not in love with you, is what he'd say.
Speaker 1: So and I even just accepted that. I even still
Speaker 1: just I honestly like accepted that. Great. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, brilliant. And then one day, um, he oh,
Speaker 1: when I had started in mentally kind of preparing to
Speaker 1: break it off, When I started mentally kind of detaching myself,
Speaker 1: this point, you were like quite afraid. Yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: At this point, this was like a couple months before
Speaker 1: I did properly ended. I was starting to mentally prepare myself.
Speaker 1: You know, you really have to do the mental game,
Speaker 1: preparing the mental game before you actually do it. You
Speaker 1: have to really start detaching yourself emotionally, which is what
Speaker 1: I started doing. And God, they can funking sense it
Speaker 1: really instantly. Really, there's something they can read people and
Speaker 1: that's why they can read people so well, just any things.
Speaker 1: In my behavior, I wasn't as affected by what he said.
Speaker 1: I wasn't really bollowed by his presence so much. I'm
Speaker 1: just hanging out, and I started being a bit more
Speaker 1: like my normal self around and not so invested and
Speaker 1: so worried about what he was doing to me and
Speaker 1: what he was doing around me. It was very started detaching,
Speaker 1: and the second I did that, I knew he could
Speaker 1: sense it, because he then brought me upstairs and told
Speaker 1: me he loved me, which is what I'd been hoping
Speaker 1: for for the whole time. Right, Yeah, so me stupidly
Speaker 1: not stupid. I shouldn't say I'm stupid, but you know, sillily,
Speaker 1: when I started detaching, it was only like a tiny
Speaker 1: bit that I started, so when he said that, bounce
Speaker 1: right back in. Yeah, oh my god, he said he
Speaker 1: loved me. Oh my god. Finally it worked. I made
Speaker 1: him love me. Yeah, I made him realize. But obviously,
Speaker 1: because I'm not stupid, I still to turn around to
Speaker 1: him and say, you told me three days ago that
Speaker 1: you cannot love and you will never feel love, so
Speaker 1: why are you suddenly? And this was literally it was
Speaker 1: three days before that, Why are you suddenly telling me
Speaker 1: that you love me now? Yeah? And he looked at
Speaker 1: me and said watch yourself, and he said, don't push it.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh my god, don't push it, and
Speaker 1: then ignored me for three days, literally ignored me for
Speaker 1: then I love you, Yeah, ignored me nothing. I literally
Speaker 1: thought he was like dead or something because he just
Speaker 1: cut it off. Oh my god, And I was like
Speaker 1: three king Oul was beside myself. I was like, holy
Speaker 1: fucking shit, like is he okay? Like he haven't heard
Speaker 1: from him at all, and he's just probably just like
Speaker 1: oh just so I was so beside myself that my
Speaker 1: mom and like my friends will like go to his
Speaker 1: house because even message and then I messaged his housemate
Speaker 1: being like have you seen him? Like he was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's around, and I was like, right, that's it. I
Speaker 1: went to his house and like beside myself and he
Speaker 1: just is like coming back from playing basketball and being
Speaker 1: like what are you doing? And I was like you,
Speaker 1: what the fuck? Why you haven't heard from you? Like
Speaker 1: why are you suddenly like three days? And he was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I just needed to have some alone time. Yeah, Like yeah, no,
Speaker 1: And obviously it wasn't because of that. Now I realized
Speaker 1: it was because I questioned him. And when you question,
Speaker 1: you know, narsis so so past. What do you want
Speaker 1: to call them? Yeah, when you question them on their
Speaker 1: behaviors boom, like yeah, anyway, and then what happened after that?
Speaker 1: And then you end up? Um, I ended up just
Speaker 1: getting more and more anxious around him. Really it was
Speaker 1: more my body, my body's response to him, because I
Speaker 1: just yeah, it was just a complete shit show, and
Speaker 1: I ended up just getting anxious. And then I went
Speaker 1: overseas with my friends for a week kind of just
Speaker 1: like yeah, obviously reset, I guess my body, you know reset.
Speaker 1: I had honestly not spent much more than a few
Speaker 1: days away from him in like a three month period. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so kind of like yeah, getting myself away from that
Speaker 1: space and just hanging out with my friends, yeah kind
Speaker 1: of really just like I was like I could breathe,
Speaker 1: So everything reset for a little bit. And the moment
Speaker 1: I went back to him and you know, back from overseas, um,
Speaker 1: that was it. I freaked, Like my body just freaked out,
Speaker 1: Like I couldn't be next to him without feeling like
Speaker 1: I was going to be a panic attack. My anxiety
Speaker 1: was through the roof. Yeah, Like I just couldn't sit
Speaker 1: with him. I couldn't be with him, and I thought,
Speaker 1: you know, initially I was like whoa, like is this me?
Speaker 1: Like I was just kind of like I can't. I'm
Speaker 1: so anxious. And so I went and saw a psychologist.
Speaker 1: Hum and I was like, you know, I'm so anxious
Speaker 1: around my boyfriend. Don't know what's happening to me. And
Speaker 1: she was like, okay, like explain kind of just your
Speaker 1: relationship a little bit. It's been going on. I talked
Speaker 1: for like a minute or true. Yeah, and she just
Speaker 1: was like I just could tell she was like a
Speaker 1: own boy and a professional. Yeah. Man. She just said, look,
Speaker 1: I have a hypothesis and he's a narcissist. You know,
Speaker 1: this is a personality disorder. It's not my client, but
Speaker 1: a hypothesize that he is. And like, so as you, like,
Speaker 1: we both studied psychology, and like, you don't normally diagnose
Speaker 1: someone from someone else's assess you die. It's like pretty
Speaker 1: much just not it's pretty much you don't do it.
Speaker 1: You're loaded ethics. Yeah, like you can't. So it's like
Speaker 1: you have to be so pretty fucking like scared for
Speaker 1: also my well being to actually say something like no,
Speaker 1: like really clearly because yeah, and normally six I've never
Speaker 1: had a science since that's been quite so like direct.
Speaker 1: But she anyway, it's also the situation, I think, She like,
Speaker 1: you're actually like in danger here, like this person is
Speaker 1: like jeopardizing your physical and your mental health. Yeah, you are,
Speaker 1: like it's not good, yeah exactly. So yeah, so she said,
Speaker 1: you know, I have a hypothesis that he's an arcissist,
Speaker 1: and she very clearly goes, you have two options in
Speaker 1: this situation. One, this is your life. You stay with him,
Speaker 1: and this is your life. He's not going to change
Speaker 1: except it right now. No change. This is him, this
Speaker 1: is how it is. You stay, this is your life too.
Speaker 1: You leave. That's it. There's no in between, there's no
Speaker 1: in between. This is your life. Or you like yeah, leave,
Speaker 1: you make a decision and you like leave and that
Speaker 1: literally I remember you tell you saying that to me,
Speaker 1: and like the other day and like I was thinking
Speaker 1: about a situation I'm currently in and I'm like, wow,
Speaker 1: like either I keep entertaining this person and like just
Speaker 1: feel awful about myself all the time and like constantly
Speaker 1: like in a state of anxiety survival basically like oh
Speaker 1: my god, Like, how can I just want to be
Speaker 1: with you so much? And you obviously don't even give
Speaker 1: a shit about me? Yeah, And I was like, either
Speaker 1: I keep this up or I just like I let
Speaker 1: it go. And I like you said that to me,
Speaker 1: and I don't. This relationship obviously isn't like a beautiful
Speaker 1: it's a little bit a little bit toxic. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: it's not like to this degree. And yeah, it was
Speaker 1: like you said that to me and I was like fuck,
Speaker 1: like wow, like it's my decision, like yeah, like it
Speaker 1: really puts the control, yeah, because the whole time, the
Speaker 1: control is not with you. The control's not with you.
Speaker 1: Everything is with them because you did because they know, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: this person isn't like this, like not at all. But
Speaker 1: like I think when you're the one who loves that
Speaker 1: other person more like you're never gonna be like I
Speaker 1: want to stop seeing Yeah. Yeah, well because you're not
Speaker 1: ending it because the lover is gone or kind of
Speaker 1: just fizzled out, or you're doing different things like you're
Speaker 1: ending it because it's not health if you and the
Speaker 1: like and yeah, for the for the stage of life,
Speaker 1: that you're in either no just e. Well but yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: well especially when I had the biggest semester of UNI.
Speaker 1: Yeah like yeah, yeah, but you did it, you I
Speaker 1: do so, like yeah, I started breaking away and yeah,
Speaker 1: I pretty much I started UNI that weekum, and I
Speaker 1: had a very busy semester coming up, and I knew that,
Speaker 1: and I just was very anxious and I just had
Speaker 1: to like put it in. I had to say, like
Speaker 1: I'm ending this and I had to stick to it
Speaker 1: and I had to just block him. And that's really
Speaker 1: like but then he started, yeah showing up at your part. Yeah, sorry,
Speaker 1: it doesn't it doesn't end there, Like you have to
Speaker 1: really you have to be so like strong to stick
Speaker 1: with yourself, I think. And you know, I did go
Speaker 1: back like once, you know, then you go back a
Speaker 1: little bit at the start you ended, and then I
Speaker 1: think it's up together like a couple of times. But
Speaker 1: it was really my body and the anxiety stopped me.
Speaker 1: It really was. It wasn't my like mental state one
Speaker 1: hundred percent, but my body could not handle his presence.
Speaker 1: My brain was like danger. It was like a fucking
Speaker 1: alarm going off in my body. And honestly was like
Speaker 1: I couldn't like the anxiety that I experienced being in
Speaker 1: the presence and anything else to do with him. It
Speaker 1: was like so severe that I had to just not
Speaker 1: see him, like it really was. That was my only choice.
Speaker 1: So it was good in that sense, like that's when
Speaker 1: the body really knows. Yeah, I think it's when it's
Speaker 1: really poured until this into your body, like the biofeedback. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: obviously it's like that feedback loop everything and yeah. But yeah,
Speaker 1: but then yeah, obviously because I had obviously tried to
Speaker 1: end it a lot throughout like this almost year period,
Speaker 1: he knew that. He knew I'd said this is done
Speaker 1: and gone back, and so he thought this was just
Speaker 1: another one of those instances. I was like, oh, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll give you a bit of space and then come
Speaker 1: on back and we'll have the same chat and we'll
Speaker 1: go back straight in. But the only thing to calm
Speaker 1: down my anxiety was completely detached and to try and
Speaker 1: mentally detached from him. Yeah as well. So he tried
Speaker 1: to do this big grand gesture like a few weeks
Speaker 1: after I'd ended it, which is typical. Typical, this is
Speaker 1: the love bombing. This is love bombing. Everyone bomb probably
Speaker 1: see it on Instagram a lot. But yeah, it's serious.
Speaker 1: It's a serious thing that they do to get you
Speaker 1: back or in or they do it at the start
Speaker 1: a lot. But also this is at the end. It
Speaker 1: could happen anytime. But um, so he gave me kind
Speaker 1: of so throughout our year kind of together. He had
Speaker 1: sold my twenty first birthday presents. He you know, the
Speaker 1: things I asked for for Time's which literally one rose
Speaker 1: he didn't get for me. So he had never got
Speaker 1: me anything basically, and so all at once he brought
Speaker 1: me all the kind of gifts and things that I'd
Speaker 1: requested throughout the year at once, like in my room.
Speaker 1: It set it up and was like Tatar basically like
Speaker 1: look what I've done. Ready, ready to take me back?
Speaker 1: And I just like stood there and I just I
Speaker 1: couldn't even entertain the idea anymore. I'm freaking freak out.
Speaker 1: So I was like no, and I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: I just said to him, sit down, and it was
Speaker 1: very like sternly it kind of said, this was Nick
Speaker 1: never what I wanted. Obviously, yes I wanted these gifts,
Speaker 1: and that's nice. It would have been great, It would
Speaker 1: be great. It would have been nice, you know, to
Speaker 1: feel of love. But yeah, when you were doing so
Speaker 1: much for him. Yeah, but it's not about obviously, it's
Speaker 1: not about the material items. So I was like, this
Speaker 1: is not it, this is never, this was never what
Speaker 1: it was about. This is never this material staff, which
Speaker 1: is obviously the only thing I can really relate to
Speaker 1: these people as well. Yeah, a lot of it's material
Speaker 1: stuff because they don't know anything about their emotions. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I like sat down. I was like, all I
Speaker 1: ever wanted was stability and consistency, simple, healthy, stable, consistent relationship.
Speaker 1: That's all I ever wanted. It's all ever asked of you.
Speaker 1: And I was like his face was like perplexed, Like
Speaker 1: when you said this to me, you were like when
Speaker 1: you call out, when you when you tell them no,
Speaker 1: when you just tell them no and you're really you
Speaker 1: have it's like unemotional as well. They can't understand, like
Speaker 1: they're really thrown off. And it's kind of in a
Speaker 1: way kind of funny, like seeing him the first time
Speaker 1: not in control because their control is back with you.
Speaker 1: You see, when you take the control back from them
Speaker 1: and put it within yourself and actually make choices and
Speaker 1: say no, and you know, they're like what, like what
Speaker 1: do you mean, Like, yeah, you're saying no to me,
Speaker 1: Like it's yeah, it's they just don't understand because it's
Speaker 1: like they never can compute what they really did. It's yeah, weird,
Speaker 1: but yeah, so I just kind of kept saying no,
Speaker 1: and you know, he did try a few times. He
Speaker 1: kept turning from my house. You even tried to break
Speaker 1: into my house at one point, lie to my housemates
Speaker 1: saying we're all in contact, saying I was home when
Speaker 1: I wasn't home, but he will come in, which is
Speaker 1: the lying and like that people, Yeah, just like trying
Speaker 1: to get whatever he could to get. I mean, the
Speaker 1: answer was constantly no, And that's really what you have
Speaker 1: to do. You just have to break it off. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's really it's easier said than done. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: yes I did it. I have a bit of a
Speaker 1: chokehold on you. But yeah, the emotions, but like the
Speaker 1: first three months that I would say it didn't pretty
Speaker 1: much there the first three months with the entire first
Speaker 1: semester of UNI, even though while I was doing Union
Speaker 1: surviving as a matter, like, my emotions were all over
Speaker 1: the place. God, it's like going not that I've ever
Speaker 1: done hard drugs. I'm being a rug, but I would
Speaker 1: imagine it's like going cold turkey. Yeah it is, though,
Speaker 1: it is because it's an addiction in the brain, and
Speaker 1: it's like cutting off, yeah, a source over, Yeah it is.
Speaker 1: It's cutting off a huge source of Also, like it's
Speaker 1: cutting off a source of like norphnepherin, and like you're
Speaker 1: stress and those are like quite addictive to your brain.
Speaker 1: It's like why people take a lot of risks and
Speaker 1: why yea do things like that. And so when your
Speaker 1: brain it's like all of your neurotransperencent hormones have been
Speaker 1: in this state of heightened arousal and now you're like
Speaker 1: you're crashing exactly. And because when you're in this situation,
Speaker 1: your these hormones and your emotions are so tied to
Speaker 1: the person and what they do to you, Like they
Speaker 1: will you know, you'll get euphoric. You'll get these amazing
Speaker 1: euphoric highs when they give you some crumbs of good
Speaker 1: behavior them they are in a good mood, you will
Speaker 1: be euphoric and it's amazing. And that's but they something
Speaker 1: bad and you'll come crashing down like the biggest low.
Speaker 1: And so It's like when your emotions are so up
Speaker 1: and down based on this other person and they're being
Speaker 1: regulated only in this way. When you cut off that source,
Speaker 1: they have nothing to respond to anymore. They don't have
Speaker 1: that stimulus. They're trying to still go up, They're trying
Speaker 1: to still go down. Yeah, but when you don't have
Speaker 1: that response, and when you're not fighting against something you
Speaker 1: can only think you're really doing, is just kind of
Speaker 1: cry and be a mess, Like, yeah, there's nothing to
Speaker 1: respond to, but they're still wanting to. That's what I had, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: with this other person where it was like not that.
Speaker 1: I think one of the disclaimers we wanted to give
Speaker 1: is like I think two people can be toxic for
Speaker 1: each other but aren't necessarily bad people. And it doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that like your experience was any less valid because
Speaker 1: this person, you know, everyone else thinks they're pretty lovely.
Speaker 1: But like there's a difference I think between a toxic
Speaker 1: relationship with one that's abusive and the type of character
Speaker 1: that Cloudy is talking about, which is like diagnosably sociopathic, narcissistic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I think toxic relationships can happen between any two
Speaker 1: and my toxic relationship where two people I just do
Speaker 1: not have this personal yeah, you know, and I still
Speaker 1: think it's like completely like an experience that is like
Speaker 1: quite traumatizing. Like yeah, like there was this one person
Speaker 1: I was like seeing and like it was it was
Speaker 1: just that anxiety you talk about. It's just so I
Speaker 1: can just remember it. Yeah, I was just constantly anxious.
Speaker 1: I was constantly waiting for him to, yeah, you appreciate
Speaker 1: me and like, and he would say things to me
Speaker 1: all the time that would just like shoot me down. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't. Like one time he was like, oh, I
Speaker 1: would never like properly date you because you're not pure enough. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I told you about it told me about
Speaker 1: and I was like and then but then you know
Speaker 1: the next day he'd be like, oh my god, like
Speaker 1: I've had all of these amazing thoughts and I just
Speaker 1: need to share them with you. And I was like,
Speaker 1: what the for me, it's the biggest fuck around. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's yeah, and it's like I don't think that person
Speaker 1: is a bad person, but like the trauma of it, like, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: sometimes this is another thing that I read or got told.
Speaker 1: I don't know what it was, but sometimes the person
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be bad, but their behavior is yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's still what you're responding to. And like, in
Speaker 1: that situation, that person was young, and yeah, I'm sure
Speaker 1: they're different now, but like, oh, some of the other
Speaker 1: things that happened, yeah, that's still inexcusable. Yeah, and still
Speaker 1: there was a lot of other things where I was like,
Speaker 1: he was like, don't tell anyone about this, and then yeah,
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, now I feel like we're
Speaker 1: accomplices in this thing, but actually I'm the only one
Speaker 1: if it's like burden By, like yeah, and it was
Speaker 1: just so and it like it took me, like I'm
Speaker 1: sure you can speak to this, but like months, yea months.
Speaker 1: I don't think I got over it until like a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago. I don't think like with like
Speaker 1: my experience, it's not something I think I will ever
Speaker 1: just know. It was so traumatized. It's not something like
Speaker 1: it's always going to be there now, it's always in
Speaker 1: some ways, it's been good in some ways. I can
Speaker 1: detect when I dated since it's like, yeah, very fast
Speaker 1: when someone's not good. I can detect very fast when
Speaker 1: a behavior it's just not okay or not right for
Speaker 1: me or when someone's just not right for me. And
Speaker 1: but in other ways, like even now I'm like a
Speaker 1: lovely with someone lovely, very healthy relationship, but anything that
Speaker 1: kind of the tiniest thing that could be to the contrary. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and there's like a switch. There's like I will get
Speaker 1: into get back back into the defensive mode very like easily.
Speaker 1: So it's something that you're like, it's still going you know,
Speaker 1: this was three years. Yeah, and it's like it like
Speaker 1: fully changes the structure. It does when someone treats you
Speaker 1: that way. It does. And like the other thing, I like,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've if you have the same feeling,
Speaker 1: Like I haven't really gone I think into this as much.
Speaker 1: But like the thing I sometimes like sit up late
Speaker 1: at night thinking about is like I let someone treat
Speaker 1: me that way. That was how I felt like the
Speaker 1: first year, like that entire year that I had first
Speaker 1: broke it off. Now I'm like I kind of accepted
Speaker 1: there was a first apart was accepting that's his personality,
Speaker 1: that's how he is. I have to go through that.
Speaker 1: Once I got through that and is ex did that's
Speaker 1: the kind of person he is? Yeah? Yeah, then the
Speaker 1: girl goes to you then the kind of anger kind
Speaker 1: of switches and it goes, what the fuck? And I
Speaker 1: remember this so vividly. It's so I remember this so
Speaker 1: vividly because um, there was a part a point where
Speaker 1: we did talk again for a bit, I unblocked in.
Speaker 1: We talked again. He invited me out to a concert
Speaker 1: or whatever. Initially I agree to it, got really really
Speaker 1: anxious again, and then I like came home like an
Speaker 1: hour or two before the concert just like started bawling
Speaker 1: my eyes out, like all the lights off in my room,
Speaker 1: the blanket over me, lying in my bed, just thinking
Speaker 1: over and over the like how what am I doing? Like?
Speaker 1: How did I let someone treat me like this? Why
Speaker 1: am I still agreeing to this? Why did I agree
Speaker 1: to this? And being like oh my god, like what's
Speaker 1: going to happen? If I go like, am I really
Speaker 1: doing this? Then I was like what am I doing?
Speaker 1: And I just start myself like thank God? I was like,
Speaker 1: what the I have a choice here? That's the thing.
Speaker 1: You didn't feel like, Yeah, I'm like, oh I have to.
Speaker 1: I said yes, I always gonna be so angry if
Speaker 1: I stayed. Who cares? I was like, get a grip. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I like honestly obviously terrile situation. I was like I
Speaker 1: just had to be like, get a fucking grip. Look
Speaker 1: at you, Look at what you look at you? All
Speaker 1: your eyes out in bed with all your lights off. Yeah, like,
Speaker 1: go to grip. I was went to my mom's that
Speaker 1: weekend and I was like, why would you lie to
Speaker 1: your mom and blow off your mom for this man?
Speaker 1: This person? Yeah, I was like no, sorry. I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, I've packed up all my things. We went
Speaker 1: to the train to my mom's. Yeah, and just was
Speaker 1: like I can't do it, not going, not going Obviously
Speaker 1: he called angry and I was like, too bad. I
Speaker 1: don't have too bad. I was like, too fucking bad.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that was like one of the times I
Speaker 1: remember a lot of the times, like in the aftermath
Speaker 1: and just healing, and even now sometimes you know, you
Speaker 1: still kind of go back and you're like, how the
Speaker 1: fuck did I let someone treatment? Because like from as
Speaker 1: well for me, like yeah, like this could happen to anyone.
Speaker 1: And I've in realizing that like I am, and I've
Speaker 1: always been very strong, very independent, very confident in myself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've never kind of been anyone who's I'm sure really
Speaker 1: of themselves or has a lot of insecurities. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: to kind of be like, what the fuck? How how
Speaker 1: did I go from kind of the girl in high
Speaker 1: school rejecting every single man, I mean, like not not interested,
Speaker 1: fuck you all, to fucking like this to literally being
Speaker 1: on my knees begging and crying for some person. That's
Speaker 1: the thing. It's like two ships, yeah, because I find
Speaker 1: this it's like with my friends and like when I'm
Speaker 1: out or when I'm like alone, I'm like, wow, I'm
Speaker 1: genuinely like the best person in the world. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I'm like and I like even last night, I was
Speaker 1: like lying in bed and it's like then you I'm
Speaker 1: just like, how did I I don't know. We just
Speaker 1: keep saying this, but I just think about it a lot.
Speaker 1: But then obviously it's good like learning about yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: obviously the science behind it, which really well, I think
Speaker 1: we're gonna go into that in the second part of
Speaker 1: this episode, which will probably publish on it like two
Speaker 1: different ones like yeah, so, um yeah, should we go
Speaker 1: into the science something? Yeah? So yeah, pretty much the
Speaker 1: question we asked ourselves for a long time, like still,
Speaker 1: how ye did we end up in this, in this, yeah,