Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
Speaker 1: the very unprofessional podcast whereby we talk through some of
Speaker 1: the big changes and transitions of our twenties and what
Speaker 1: they mean for our psychology. Today is an exciting episode
Speaker 1: because it's our fourth installment of our Let's Get Friendly
Speaker 1: series where I bring on a special guest, someone who's
Speaker 1: a friend of the show, just to talk through their
Speaker 1: experiences in their twenties, what they've been, what they've learned
Speaker 1: so far, big changes and transitions before and after, moment, strength, weaknesses, goals,
Speaker 1: all of the above. And today I'm bringing on a
Speaker 1: very special guest, one of our co writers. Actually, he
Speaker 1: helps out with heaps of my episodes and I draw
Speaker 1: a lot of inspiration from him. He's an amazing friend.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we're welcoming Jack today. I hope you guys
Speaker 1: enjoy the episode. Everyone. This is Jack. Hey, guys, Hey,
Speaker 1: and gals and gals, Yeah, come on, none of that
Speaker 1: in here. I'm a bit nervous audience. This is actually
Speaker 1: this is my first podcasts. It's interesting being on one
Speaker 1: because I listened to them a lot, and so just
Speaker 1: navigating this new territory at yeah yeah, really, culture for
Speaker 1: anyone listening. Yeah, see, see and this and this is
Speaker 1: what I'm nervous about. I'm nervous about me, me saying
Speaker 1: things that are going to be held against me, and
Speaker 1: it's all out of the public, everyone can hear it.
Speaker 1: So but yeah, no, that's me. I listened to podcasts.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's the whole identity. I could believe about
Speaker 1: anything that makes me sound like arrogant, but I don't
Speaker 1: think i'll have to. I'm just not. Yeah. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: beyond the candid, I'll be brutal. This is going to
Speaker 1: be like one of those really intense interviews that they
Speaker 1: do on like the New York Times. Yeah, sounds good.
Speaker 1: That's the tough questions. Yeah. Oh, I don't even know
Speaker 1: if we have any of those appropriate interview They aren't,
Speaker 1: they aren't. Yeah. Good, I'm good. I'm good. I'm still
Speaker 1: warming up to it. I'm still wearing your podcast. Your
Speaker 1: podcast generally is see you know it's a hard time. Yeah, no, no,
Speaker 1: to be there anymore. No, No, you make a fair point.
Speaker 1: You make a fair point. So no, but thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you for making this special for me. You're welcome. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, I'll be gentle. I promise. Also,
Speaker 1: if you get are in the background, she's making me dinner.
Speaker 1: That's my house. Sounds good, the show sounds good. She's
Speaker 1: cooking up the storm. So yeah, a bit of a
Speaker 1: that was a bit of a segue. We just had
Speaker 1: a bit of a yarn. But yeah, I want to
Speaker 1: say thanks for coming on the show, Thanks for having me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's one of my guests. I feel like we've been
Speaker 1: friends for a while, like a long time. Yeah yeah
Speaker 1: ages ages all four years, I guess now. Yeah, oh
Speaker 1: my god, it is weird. Yeah, you know, I was
Speaker 1: thinking this the other day. We've known each other, well,
Speaker 1: I've known you my entire adult life. True, true, Sorry,
Speaker 1: I was just taking a sip of my wine for
Speaker 1: people listening audibly, which is everyone. Um, I'm a big
Speaker 1: I'm a big walker when I talk. So I'm walking
Speaker 1: around with a glass of wine in my room. But oh,
Speaker 1: are you doing a stroll getting a steps up jet?
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly. But no, that's that's interesting, right because I
Speaker 1: I guess I I guess I met you rude before
Speaker 1: you turn seventeen eighteen eighteen, yeah, when you were seventeen, yeah,
Speaker 1: turning it. Yeah, I still remember the first time I
Speaker 1: met you. Actually, oh yeah, I told you, I think
Speaker 1: because I remember the first time I met you, but
Speaker 1: you go first. Oh, let's see what our interpretations are.
Speaker 1: The first time I met you was like second day
Speaker 1: of B and G orientation. Yeah yeah, and I was
Speaker 1: with one of my friends and we sat down at
Speaker 1: a table with you and one of your friends. Um, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: which who I also knew very well. Yeah, but um
Speaker 1: sat down and I remember I was like the person
Speaker 1: who was sitting next to me messaged me and was like, wow,
Speaker 1: they're really cute. And I messaged about being like which one.
Speaker 1: It's like really funny, love it, love it? Yeah. And
Speaker 1: then I don't know where we went from there. We
Speaker 1: just became Oh. And then I remember the first bonding
Speaker 1: moment where I was like, we're gonna be buddies because
Speaker 1: we went for like wrong walk yeah yeah, like all
Speaker 1: around the A and your campus and it was very weak.
Speaker 1: We did all those yeah yeah we did. Um no, No,
Speaker 1: that's I like that. It's funny. No, because because mine
Speaker 1: I think I think it's good that we agree that
Speaker 1: the first time we saw each other was at the table.
Speaker 1: But um, but my first impression of you. I remember
Speaker 1: sitting down when it was you Ali and then Davey
Speaker 1: sitting next to me, M and I just remember like
Speaker 1: sitting down for one of those random activities, not really
Speaker 1: knowing what to expect, and then you guys started talking
Speaker 1: to us, and you were so like engaging and interesting.
Speaker 1: I just remember being very like you started talking. You
Speaker 1: you blonded the time. I remember, um, and you just
Speaker 1: started kind of talking and talking about yourself and you.
Speaker 1: I just remember you sounded very interesting, but also you're
Speaker 1: very interested in what everyone else had to say. Um,
Speaker 1: it was really cool. So and you were talking about
Speaker 1: you said. One of the first things you said I
Speaker 1: think was, um, you mentioned you were studying Russian, and
Speaker 1: I was like, that is that is cool? That is unique. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah I did study Russian. I was I was a
Speaker 1: good Russia. I was the lousiest Russian shooter ever. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I would never go to any of my shoots because
Speaker 1: it was all men, yeah right, kind of like and
Speaker 1: I just remember just being like, and they were like,
Speaker 1: we should do a study group. Yeah yeah, right, like
Speaker 1: all men in the Russian cohort. That's bizarre. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: there was this one lady but she was a mature
Speaker 1: age student and I just remember this really funny like
Speaker 1: my Russian shooter hilarious. She was really funny and m
Speaker 1: but she was definitely like very communist, like yeah, all
Speaker 1: of the like. And I just remember one time we
Speaker 1: saw these people doing yoga and she was like, oh,
Speaker 1: looking out the window, we saw these people doing yoga,
Speaker 1: and she was like, oh, look, it's like indigenous people dancing.
Speaker 1: And we were like yeah, no, no, no, no, that's yoga,
Speaker 1: Like they're doing yoga. And I mean it was because
Speaker 1: it almost sounds like she I don't know, I don't
Speaker 1: know what her background is, but she she was studying Russian.
Speaker 1: Her background. I was just utah, okay, yeah, okay, her
Speaker 1: backgrounds Russian. Um we hope, we hope yeah, um okay
Speaker 1: yeah yeah. And she'd always put like, um, lenin and
Speaker 1: all of her like examples, like we'd be doing like
Speaker 1: intense grammar, but all of the questions would involve Lenin
Speaker 1: and like, and her thing she would always say is
Speaker 1: like learning says to study studies should be like it's
Speaker 1: like right, right, conjugate this sentence, you know, mother Russia
Speaker 1: will rule the world. Yeah, well that's nice. So that's
Speaker 1: how we met. Yes, yeah, yeah, I guess that also
Speaker 1: explains how you're kind of connected to the show because
Speaker 1: we've kept up our friendship for many, many years. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we've done well, We've done really well. We actually have
Speaker 1: it's really fun memories. Oh let me let me, let
Speaker 1: me think, let me think. Um, there's a lot, there's
Speaker 1: definitely a lot. I mean, just recently, I've been joining
Speaker 1: the walks we've been going on during lockdown, um gem
Speaker 1: and I've been going up on a few walks through
Speaker 1: nature and it's it's always fun, I think. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I'll sound very random and a bit tokenissy here, but
Speaker 1: it's it's it's very fun kind of adventuring around in
Speaker 1: the nature. It is. Yeah, And what did we fine?
Speaker 1: We went on a walk this weekend. I think we
Speaker 1: had our biggest hall of fight because basically what we
Speaker 1: do is we go we go off the beaten path. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, you know where individuals aren't we don't. We
Speaker 1: don't go down the path that everyone else goes down,
Speaker 1: which is we run with the ruse. Yeah. We was
Speaker 1: just about to say that we run with the ruse.
Speaker 1: We disturbed them. We just trashed mountains. No, we don't
Speaker 1: no exactly exactly, but we went for a walk this weekend.
Speaker 1: What did you want to tell them what we found
Speaker 1: our magical spot? Oh yeah, okay, no, this is this
Speaker 1: is fantastic. So um so so Jemma just decided to
Speaker 1: take this this kind of detourl We're heading down the
Speaker 1: mountain and you, I think you just decided to view
Speaker 1: off left randomly. But we stumbled across this little flat land.
Speaker 1: It was kind of like a mountain, but it was
Speaker 1: almost this um this plan kind of extended out from
Speaker 1: it um and it was really cool because there was
Speaker 1: this bonfire in the middle surrounded by logs. Um. It
Speaker 1: kind of felt like we we entered someone's you know,
Speaker 1: camping spot. Yeah, it was really nice. Yeah, it's really nice.
Speaker 1: And the boulder. I'm like shocked we found this, Like
Speaker 1: I don't know, like I don't know. This's just just
Speaker 1: like amazing to me because it's like a concept that's
Speaker 1: like very like, um, you know those books used to
Speaker 1: read when you were a kid of like kids like
Speaker 1: adventuring and they'd find the hidden treasure. Yeah, yeah, like
Speaker 1: they'd find something they weren't meant to find. And I
Speaker 1: felt like they had that moment because we spotted this
Speaker 1: like boulder and I think you noticed there was like
Speaker 1: like there's something safe. Yeah, yeah, and we realized we
Speaker 1: could move the boulder and we opened up and then
Speaker 1: underneath this like a goon bag like a shovel sausages.
Speaker 1: It was funny, noo, It's like it was very weird.
Speaker 1: I don't know why anyone would ever do this, but
Speaker 1: they seem to dig the hole in their camping spot
Speaker 1: with a little spade and they'd put goon and cooked
Speaker 1: sausages in there, and it was all mixing around in
Speaker 1: the dirt. So I don't understand. Maybe they were trying
Speaker 1: to hide the garbage. Um, yeah, maybe I can't understand
Speaker 1: why anyone would return there, take the dirts, dirty sausages
Speaker 1: out and get cracking with the goon again. I didn't
Speaker 1: even think about that actually, yeah, because the goon bag
Speaker 1: was like full. Yeah yeah, no, they hadn't made it
Speaker 1: in yeah. And then we were like we were like
Speaker 1: we pinned it on the map, so we'll have to
Speaker 1: go back there. I still remember how to get there.
Speaker 1: And like then we found this really cool like dug
Speaker 1: out like camp thing. Yeah, and we were like Oh,
Speaker 1: we make like this is where like the guy sleeps,
Speaker 1: like when he comes up here, like yeah, when it
Speaker 1: sleeps after retiring from his from his like bonfire. And
Speaker 1: then we found the gut tire and we Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was really it was great. Yeah, we're piecing together like
Speaker 1: little clues were wide and narrative, and we were creating
Speaker 1: little characters out of these clues, which was I think
Speaker 1: sounds pretty dorky. It was fun. What were their names again, Oh,
Speaker 1: Bevon and Devon and I think yeah that's true. Oh
Speaker 1: god classic. It was like back Mountain but in broke
Speaker 1: back story. Yeah, literally a camera love story. That was
Speaker 1: That was a good memory we did find. And then
Speaker 1: we had a little meditation as well. Yeah, yeah, no
Speaker 1: that was nice. That was actually was not Yeah no,
Speaker 1: so gems, gems, Um, I think you've been getting you
Speaker 1: to meditation recently, haven't you. Yeah, is this a new thing? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's a new thing. It's like I guess
Speaker 1: we'll talk about it later. We can talk about it now.
Speaker 1: I just find it, like I think Lockdown's very stressful
Speaker 1: and like I was finding it hard to like stay present. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, so it's like I do like three of
Speaker 1: these a night and they're so good. It's The app
Speaker 1: is called Smiling Mind. If anyone wants to download it,
Speaker 1: it's free. Yeah, And I was like Jack, we should
Speaker 1: do one like in the middle of nature, no one
Speaker 1: around us. We should do like a listening one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and just like see how we feel, see what we
Speaker 1: feel and did you did you feel anything? Yeah? I mean,
Speaker 1: because usually my experience is meditation, I never really feel
Speaker 1: feel much. Um, this was This is really quite lovely though.
Speaker 1: I'll give it a little spruit for any potential meditation
Speaker 1: meditators out there, but it's it was really nice. The
Speaker 1: whole practice of the meditation was being aware of what
Speaker 1: you're hearing. And for those who don't know meditation at
Speaker 1: least the one, this was all out awareness of drawing
Speaker 1: awareness to what you're feeling, to what you're thinking, toward
Speaker 1: you fear, toward your hearing, smelling, and were kind of
Speaker 1: halfway up the mountain and there was really strong wind
Speaker 1: coming through and at the same time you saw the
Speaker 1: wind kind of splash across your face and trickle your hair.
Speaker 1: You could hear all the leaves kind of get pulled
Speaker 1: in the same direction that you were being thrown. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it was I'll sound like a very basic white
Speaker 1: boy here, but it felt very kind of out one
Speaker 1: with some of the trees and nature. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: that sounds weird. Yeah, no it doesn't. It doesn't sound weird.
Speaker 1: It was I had the exact same feeling. I felt
Speaker 1: like the wind was like tickling me. It was like,
Speaker 1: really weird. I was like trying not to giggle because
Speaker 1: I was like, it sounds is so present. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: really lovely. And I think it was like listening to
Speaker 1: your conversations as well. It was like the most beautiful experience.
Speaker 1: I would really recommend it our conversations. Yeah, of course,
Speaker 1: all the voices in my head. Yeah, it's it's hard
Speaker 1: having dialogue with you. It's like a yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: four people speaking. Um. One of my fondest memories actually
Speaker 1: was um, obviously the pure imagination moment. Oh yes, yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: that was. We promise never to tell the story, but
Speaker 1: just I mean I feel like we should now that
Speaker 1: we're not going. It's not going to sound as good
Speaker 1: when we explain it because I feel like it's just okay, okay,
Speaker 1: it's your podcast. Yeah yeah, sorry, guys, we're teasing them,
Speaker 1: and but we used to spend so much time in
Speaker 1: your first year room. Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: you had that that modeling job handing out Link chocolates,
Speaker 1: oh fantasy. Yeah, that's right. Did you You came and visited,
Speaker 1: didn't you? No, No, I had. Yeah. So I had
Speaker 1: this modeling job, um through a modeling agency, and um
Speaker 1: and um. You know, they gave me pretty glorious job
Speaker 1: of dressing up as a Link chef chocolate tear just
Speaker 1: like you see in the advertisements, and standing in the
Speaker 1: aisles of coals and woolies and handing out samples of chocolates. Um.
Speaker 1: What that meant was that when they didn't nor get used,
Speaker 1: I was able to take them home, which meant that
Speaker 1: I had about I would have been something like two
Speaker 1: hundred limpballs in my room for oh my god, about
Speaker 1: a month after it was. It was so good and
Speaker 1: I don't feel like a bit of a big dog,
Speaker 1: and you know, hand them out to people. I mean
Speaker 1: maybe it was a bit patronizing back then. I don't know, No,
Speaker 1: I wasn't patronizing. I just remember you throw a limpball
Speaker 1: at me. And it just got to the point where
Speaker 1: we so many yeah, well because because I was getting
Speaker 1: sick of eating them because there were so many. So
Speaker 1: I was like, let me just let me spread the
Speaker 1: love a little. Everyone can have a limpball. So when
Speaker 1: you were done with your bounty, he decided to share it. No, no, clearly,
Speaker 1: I'm very I'm very selfless. No, it was really nice. No, no,
Speaker 1: but no, no, I speak speaking chocolates. Memory that I've
Speaker 1: of you gem in first year and even in second year,
Speaker 1: you would always have a little sweet straw. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: so so it would be over at your house, at
Speaker 1: your apartment after you know, going for a run or
Speaker 1: just studying down. I would always come up and they're
Speaker 1: usually a bit of a bit of like an hour
Speaker 1: or two our call off period where would hang out
Speaker 1: and um, you just cracker in the sweets. I have
Speaker 1: a little chocolate beees. It's delicious. Oh yeah, I remember
Speaker 1: that snaptraw that snare was right, like you know how
Speaker 1: they say like in America, like the Freshman fifteen. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah that was my freshman fifteen because it was like always,
Speaker 1: oh my god, it was the best. I'd always wanted one.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, no, no, what that's the thing about it,
Speaker 1: It's like, um, it was really fun in first year,
Speaker 1: first moving away, because you can realize you can do
Speaker 1: anything your parents didn't want you to do, like you
Speaker 1: have ice cream for breakfast and get lollies whenever you wanted.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, yeah, anyway, and you have your money, you
Speaker 1: have your joy. Yeah, true, true, true. With freedom comes
Speaker 1: great responsibility. I don't know if that's the quote, but yeah, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: with yeah, great great power to be an adult, comes
Speaker 1: great responsibility. Yeah, and I don't think we were very responsible.
Speaker 1: I remember, like, I have so many fun. This is
Speaker 1: like it's kind of like a trip down memory, la
Speaker 1: how we developed into our twenties now, like some of
Speaker 1: those like those stilly experiences that we have. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I kind of tape it off, but oh my god.
Speaker 1: I just remember my diet was so bad. And I
Speaker 1: remember I spent my scholarship money on tickets to Europe
Speaker 1: when I was like manic one day. Oh true, true,
Speaker 1: the snap trip to Amsterdam. Oh my god, I was silly,
Speaker 1: but it was fun. It's fun, fun, And I just remember, yeah, spontaneous,
Speaker 1: it was very spontaneous. Yeah, it was you know, you
Speaker 1: shouldn't probably do that again. I remember being on like
Speaker 1: a China Airlines flight, being like am I going to die? Like?
Speaker 1: I also just have so many fun memories of us
Speaker 1: watching Louis Thureaux in your room and I would come
Speaker 1: back from church. So that was a church girl. Yeah yeah, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I remember I remember one night we um I know,
Speaker 1: would often be hanging out and then we'd egg each
Speaker 1: other on to get some go for the little Markers
Speaker 1: run and I remember what we came back with a
Speaker 1: bunch of mark has sat down with a pillow in
Speaker 1: the middle and then click play on Louis throw um
Speaker 1: great tentry. Yeah. So yeah, that that was our baby selves.
Speaker 1: That was true first. I feel like we've come a
Speaker 1: long way since then. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah. What are you
Speaker 1: up to now? Um? Well, at the moment, let's see,
Speaker 1: I'll I mean, how do I describe my life put?
Speaker 1: I'm up to now? Job wise, I'm working for a
Speaker 1: government relations firm as an analyst, which is fun. I
Speaker 1: am finishing off my degree and you here and next
Speaker 1: year I'm moving across to Sydney to live with you. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm Kane, I'm Keen. It's gonna be good. You've sold
Speaker 1: it really well. Actually the same I'm excited. Oh Sydney summer.
Speaker 1: This is yeah. I mean have I told you my
Speaker 1: theory before. It's not really a theory. I'm just really
Speaker 1: excited for it because half the nation has been the
Speaker 1: lockdown Canberra, Sydney, Melbourne. Um, everyone in Sydney is going
Speaker 1: to be coming out of lockdown around this summer m
Speaker 1: The beaches will be open, the bars will be open,
Speaker 1: and it's it's just gonna be an awesome time because
Speaker 1: I think everyone's got this pent up social extroverted energy UM,
Speaker 1: or at least the ones whore extroverts, and it just
Speaker 1: keen to have a fun time. So I love a
Speaker 1: good time. Yeah, we're gonna have such a good time.
Speaker 1: Are you scared? Like, I don't know about you, but
Speaker 1: I've been super scared of what's going to happen after lockdown?
Speaker 1: Like am I going to become like, you know, like
Speaker 1: very introverted because I feel like that's what's happened to me. Fine,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, yeah, no, No, that's that's interesting. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't think I'm scared of becoming
Speaker 1: an introvert. I think I'm I'm scared of all the
Speaker 1: normal responsibility coming back in a way. It's like it's like,
Speaker 1: at least at least social life has hit a bit
Speaker 1: of a pause, and so it's really good time to
Speaker 1: take some time for yourself. But then when when it
Speaker 1: comes back, you know, there's there's events and things that
Speaker 1: keep you busy. Um, and I think you're going to
Speaker 1: miss a bit of me time. So actually, yes, so
Speaker 1: I think it'd be the same as you. I think
Speaker 1: I'm scared I'll be I'll at least want to be
Speaker 1: more introverted than I have to be. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: feel like we're both extroverts. So I think it's like
Speaker 1: kind of scary when you go away from the norm
Speaker 1: of how you've normally like lived your life. Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: like like I've adapted so much to being alone that
Speaker 1: now like the idea of being around people is like
Speaker 1: quite frightening. So I feel like, yeah, we're gonna have
Speaker 1: to The Sydney experience is going to be a whirlwind. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: for sure, No, because because you don't really a doubt,
Speaker 1: Like I don't know, at least I found your whole
Speaker 1: kind of mentality changes around life a little bit. It's
Speaker 1: not a bad thing. It can be what have you
Speaker 1: been doing in Lockdown. You've been doing writing as well,
Speaker 1: which has been very fun for me because I get
Speaker 1: to read it. Yeah. Well, one of my degree course
Speaker 1: this year is creative writing, and so I've been doing
Speaker 1: a bit of creative writing, which has been super fun. Um.
Speaker 1: It was like I've just kind of gone back into
Speaker 1: it because I at the start of last year I
Speaker 1: started doing a bit of screenwriting because you know, it's
Speaker 1: been a fun. Um. And then yeah, and then I
Speaker 1: picked up this creative writing course for this semester and
Speaker 1: I've just been really enjoying it. And then I've also
Speaker 1: been doing a lot of article writing too, which has
Speaker 1: been also very very fun. Um. Yeah. Yeah, and thank
Speaker 1: you for reading them and giving me a feedback. No,
Speaker 1: you've done You've done a great job. I feel like
Speaker 1: because you wrote like basically, well, help to contribute to
Speaker 1: like a whole screen play last year or like a
Speaker 1: mini series basically. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, it was fun. It
Speaker 1: was a really good time. It was a really good time.
Speaker 1: You want to plug it on the show what's it called? Oh? Sure, Well,
Speaker 1: it's actually that's the thing. I can't really plug it
Speaker 1: because it's there's nothing out there but me and mate
Speaker 1: last year through and sorry, actually end the last year
Speaker 1: started this year through together a few episodes for it
Speaker 1: was it was the idea we had was it was
Speaker 1: going to be a little mini web series called shouse Mates.
Speaker 1: Um and I'm going to sound more like a bit
Speaker 1: of a basic white boy here because I've written a
Speaker 1: screenplay about unique kids who's doing uni things and so
Speaker 1: very relatable you know, um And so yeah, I bet
Speaker 1: it was just a real I know. It was the
Speaker 1: first time I really stepped into creativity at all, um
Speaker 1: and I've just absolutely loved it. But it was really
Speaker 1: interesting because I found I don't know, I've given a
Speaker 1: I've been doing a lot more creative things across the
Speaker 1: last year. It's almost like a found little version of
Speaker 1: my childhood self. You're in a child. That's a huge YEA.
Speaker 1: A child is a psychology. I thought it was always
Speaker 1: like pseudo spiritual. I think it's like new age psychology.
Speaker 1: It's like, I think it's a huge thing with like
Speaker 1: psychotherapy and like New Age spirituality of like tapping into
Speaker 1: your inner child. But it is like a dialogue that
Speaker 1: sometimes happens when you use dialectical emotional theory or behavioral theory.
Speaker 1: So it's like what you want to do is start
Speaker 1: a dialogue with therapist or someone trusted where you just
Speaker 1: talk about things and it's about like accepting the things
Speaker 1: that I guess a lot of people's psychological situations come
Speaker 1: out of stuff that happened to them in childhood, right, Okay,
Speaker 1: I guess it's a way of like communicating that, and
Speaker 1: by communicating it, you get back in touch with your
Speaker 1: inner child and what hurt them and like kind of them.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of like it it sounds sorry, you
Speaker 1: go no, No, you go ahead. I was just gonna
Speaker 1: ask it sounds is it kind of seen through like
Speaker 1: a trauma or suffering lens at least? Or is it
Speaker 1: a lot wider than that. No, that's actually a really
Speaker 1: good question. I haven't actually thought about that. I did often.
Speaker 1: I think it's more of like a deprivation lens and
Speaker 1: like a caregiving lens of like what didn't you receive,
Speaker 1: like getting back in touch with like basic intuition and
Speaker 1: instincts as well. And I think that's exactly what you're describing.
Speaker 1: It's like you've learned how to like be creative, and
Speaker 1: I think creativity is so much associated with having fun
Speaker 1: and it's about play and especially some of the other
Speaker 1: things you're doing. Like, oh, Jack, I love you so much.
Speaker 1: I just think that you've flourished so much. I've had
Speaker 1: I've had one glass of wine, but I'm there here,
Speaker 1: Like you've just flourished so much into more of your
Speaker 1: because you always were creative, always do you always have
Speaker 1: been in many ways, and I think that you've really
Speaker 1: flourished into that recently because you've tapped into your intuition
Speaker 1: and what feels good and for you. It's like you
Speaker 1: you've produced so many cool things this last year yea
Speaker 1: d Yeah, but like a psychologist would argue that, like
Speaker 1: you've kind of shed the boundaries of what you thought
Speaker 1: you wanted to be, you know when we first entered UNI. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're really you're really set on being a politician. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I still think you'd be excellent at that, but
Speaker 1: like you would be amazing. And you had this upbringing
Speaker 1: of growing up in north West North Beaches, Northern Beaches,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, yeah, like nor Sydney Yeah yeah, Sydney Boys School.
Speaker 1: It's like there's a lot of structure around that and
Speaker 1: you've been able to break out of it. So like
Speaker 1: what do you think you're process because I just remember
Speaker 1: like when I would you could always be manifesting these
Speaker 1: political aspirations and now you're just doing such a more
Speaker 1: creative path of acting. Yeah, journalism, So what do you
Speaker 1: think kind of allowed you to tap into that? Can
Speaker 1: you notice like a point where that became more present
Speaker 1: in your life? Yeah? No, no, that's really interesting. Um.
Speaker 1: I guess to touch on the point of like, how
Speaker 1: how we've changed since since first year, because do you
Speaker 1: remember when like it was like two or three weeks
Speaker 1: ago we're reading the journal entries from our first yourselves? Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: but yeah I was. I was astounded by how how
Speaker 1: different I was to the point where you know, I
Speaker 1: thought I was a bit of a douche. Maybe I
Speaker 1: was still and we'll think I am in ten years,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I think, but no, but no, But I
Speaker 1: guess back to the question, I think the biggest thing
Speaker 1: for me was I think it was it was kind
Speaker 1: of happening towards the end of the last year. I
Speaker 1: went through a bit of a breakup, and I I
Speaker 1: was quite upset with life in general and quite depressed.
Speaker 1: It's a bit of a morbid entry into the creative world.
Speaker 1: But it was for me. It was like I was
Speaker 1: feeling quite bad on a daily basis, and the saving
Speaker 1: grace for me, the kind of thought that I really
Speaker 1: touched myself too in that time was that if I
Speaker 1: can write about how I'm feeling, why I'm feeling it,
Speaker 1: and I can give a very honest exposition of my
Speaker 1: inner world right now, even though it sucks, then that
Speaker 1: kind of gives up this part of my life a
Speaker 1: bit of meaning. And so it was I kind of
Speaker 1: started doing doing free form, like just random stream of consciousness.
Speaker 1: It was called morning Pages. It's a little technique from
Speaker 1: that another podcaster Enjoys and Harris Tim Ferris, I know,
Speaker 1: I know so, but um but no bit. And the
Speaker 1: technique is you wake up in the morning and you
Speaker 1: you just free form right for about something like ten
Speaker 1: minutes and you just get every single thing in your
Speaker 1: brain out um. And then when you did that, usually
Speaker 1: wanted to write a lot more um and And I
Speaker 1: don't know it just it provided me a heaps of comfort,
Speaker 1: and I started to over time develop a little bit
Speaker 1: of a passion for that form of expression, and that
Speaker 1: extended into you know, me wanting to write a bit
Speaker 1: of the screenplay, do a bit of acting. Um, and
Speaker 1: I guess journalism as well, and to kind of express
Speaker 1: something bigger than myself through that. Wow, anyway, hooked the
Speaker 1: ramble ramble too much. Yeah, that's like I didn't even
Speaker 1: know that about you. That I didn't know that you
Speaker 1: were doing that. Maybe you told me and I just
Speaker 1: wasn't listening, But yeah, I don't. I don't think I
Speaker 1: taught many people. I don't think it really taught many people.
Speaker 1: But yeah, well that's incredible. But I feel like that's
Speaker 1: such a good thing. I think also, like where you
Speaker 1: were staying, like you came from a point of paying
Speaker 1: Like all great artists kind of have pain, you know,
Speaker 1: no one, even happy stories have a deeper meaning or
Speaker 1: have some kind of contrast to them that is painful
Speaker 1: to do a suffering So I feel like it actually
Speaker 1: probably was the perfect time for you. Um. I remember
Speaker 1: we tried to give painting a go, but yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but that was around the time I was getting into
Speaker 1: creative things. Yeah, and I think you suggested should we
Speaker 1: do some painting? M Yeah, that was hilarious. No, because
Speaker 1: you sat across from me, and you you kind of
Speaker 1: sat there and and just made this beautiful like landscape
Speaker 1: piece or from memory ocean, you know, sun um shaw.
Speaker 1: It was. It was this lovely little beach. It wasn't
Speaker 1: even a beach, just like a shoreline. Um. And then
Speaker 1: I just did little scribbles and they ended up looking
Speaker 1: like a preschool preschool art um not exaggerating, right, it
Speaker 1: looked terrible. I'm just gonna say, I love you so much, Jack,
Speaker 1: and you're going to make dearest friends. But it was
Speaker 1: a piece of shit. It was yeah, yeah, it literally
Speaker 1: it was like I think it was angle. I just
Speaker 1: didn't make it. Yeah, it just didn't make sense. But
Speaker 1: you tapped into what here's the thing though, this is
Speaker 1: the lesson. You tapped into what was your creative method
Speaker 1: or avenue or I don't know what it's called, your
Speaker 1: discipline of creativity. I'm sure the world will come to me.
Speaker 1: But it's funny you mentioned the journal entries because I
Speaker 1: think we're both huge journalists. And I'm just gonna say
Speaker 1: we were to the other night for the audience. We
Speaker 1: were I don't know why were we doing this one
Speaker 1: FaceTime with Meg friend of the show, Yeah, and a
Speaker 1: good friend of the show actually, and we were we
Speaker 1: somehow ended up reading our journal entries from like when
Speaker 1: we were eighteen, and it is really insane to see
Speaker 1: how much you have grown as a person, because I
Speaker 1: think back then you will really focus just on I
Speaker 1: hope you don't mind me saying this, but like having
Speaker 1: the life, like being in a relationship, having a good job,
Speaker 1: being physically fit. And I'm not saying you don't care
Speaker 1: about all those things now, but I think now the
Speaker 1: metrics of how you weigh your success as an individual
Speaker 1: or how you doing your worth is more to do
Speaker 1: with things that like individually satisfying and tap until like
Speaker 1: we've been saying, like that free flowing kind of creative spirit.
Speaker 1: Whereas some of them, I remember what both of our
Speaker 1: general entries were pretty embarrassing. Let's be honest, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: some of the ones I read, No, that's very that's
Speaker 1: very cunny to say. I think that's very Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a really nice, nice way to put it. But no, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean even yours as well. I felt both very different. Um,
Speaker 1: I think you've I think you've kept the same expressive
Speaker 1: part of yourself really alive from then. Um, but yeah,
Speaker 1: this is such a different time, wasn't it. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: it's funny to see how we've it was really I
Speaker 1: think I think we were both found it very profound. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I would so recommend like that technique. I'm Tim
Speaker 1: Ferris's firstly to excellent advice in the bedroom, Like remember
Speaker 1: you're telling me about that thing. Um, I think that
Speaker 1: that's really good advice. Like that's an incredible technique. Not
Speaker 1: to steal his idea, but like in terms of talking
Speaker 1: about psychology, like just to go back to your to
Speaker 1: your point, like the idea of journaling all of your feelings,
Speaker 1: everything that's in your head. It is almost a form
Speaker 1: of meditation itself. Did you find that that it was
Speaker 1: meditative or yeah? Absolutely, no, absolutely, I think I think, Um,
Speaker 1: I think the way he puts it is you you
Speaker 1: let the monkey brain out for like ten solid minutes, um.
Speaker 1: And I think when he says to the monkey brain,
Speaker 1: he he's articulating the kind of messy, um, fast paced
Speaker 1: energy of a stressed mind. And it's kind of like
Speaker 1: the constant anxieties and worries and just just just thoughts.
Speaker 1: And so I don't know, I find at least when
Speaker 1: you kind of let those flight gates open, everything is
Speaker 1: kind of out there on a page. So you, You're
Speaker 1: provided with a lot more clarity for the rest of
Speaker 1: the day. And yeah, I guess it was meditative. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've got it all. I've got it all. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: have to. I don't know if this is like a
Speaker 1: good question. I'm just really interested just for like our friends,
Speaker 1: But like, at what point do you think you kind
Speaker 1: of turned to being more fiction fiction based than nonfiction,
Speaker 1: Like I'm guessing at the start you were talking about
Speaker 1: your feelings had to run the breakup and other things
Speaker 1: that were going on in your life. When you feel
Speaker 1: that it turned to something a bit more expressive or
Speaker 1: a bit more abstract or not so much based in reality,
Speaker 1: how do you mean that? Sorry, Like, you know, you've
Speaker 1: been really into the creative writing and creative expression, like, oh,
Speaker 1: the before lockdown, so I jack it was. I don't
Speaker 1: sure if you're still in the process of auditioning for
Speaker 1: acting school. Yes, ye, which I fully support. By the way,
Speaker 1: I want to have a thank you. Yeah. Well, I
Speaker 1: think after friends are not rich, so you'll be buying
Speaker 1: me dinner. Oh my god, it's gonna be like we're
Speaker 1: gonna have dude, We're gonna have so much creative input
Speaker 1: next year like just the struggling like creative like journey,
Speaker 1: and then like the corporate sell out like yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: it's gonna it's gonna be very interesting, Like you could
Speaker 1: write a show about that. In fact, I could run
Speaker 1: another screenplay about my life esque like yes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and then we and then we make it to the
Speaker 1: Hollywood by you know, sending around the screenplay and applying
Speaker 1: applying for I think that's great. I fucking hope on
Speaker 1: your day. No, absolutely, no, No, it was a friend,
Speaker 1: but you know, yeah, no, no, no, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1: But I think I think if you'd be a really
Speaker 1: good person to show, you know, to bring into that
Speaker 1: world with, I think it'd be cool. You'd have you
Speaker 1: have some very cool insight and support. Um no, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: backing school. Yeah. So I will be a playing for it,
Speaker 1: but I think slim chance of getting in if I
Speaker 1: get in, which is very slim. I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: think I'm too keen on it, but I think it's
Speaker 1: good to keep the options open. Yeah, why why he
Speaker 1: was keen on it as you previously were. I just
Speaker 1: I just don't. I just don't think it's the right
Speaker 1: thing for me now. I think at the moment with work,
Speaker 1: Like I'm obviously working in politics, there's a certain element
Speaker 1: of like you have your finger on the pulse um
Speaker 1: and you'll have very good accents to information through people
Speaker 1: in certain periods of time, and when you step away
Speaker 1: from that for a while, it kind of dissipates. And
Speaker 1: I'm just enjoying the world too much to kind of
Speaker 1: shut down the opportunity too early. Wow, if that makes sense. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So what do you think it's changed? Because I feel
Speaker 1: like we were doing we were practicing intense monologue, Like
Speaker 1: I just think you're bloody talented, Like we did this one.
Speaker 1: I remember we were going through all the monologues that
Speaker 1: you could possibly audition with, and there was that one
Speaker 1: that we did. You remember what the name was. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: it was I can't remember the name, but I remember
Speaker 1: how it went. It was pretty intense. Yeah, And so
Speaker 1: I think back then you were really keen on it.
Speaker 1: Do you think that, like, why were you so keen
Speaker 1: on acting and back and then do you think it
Speaker 1: was like something that you felt was unfulfilled And now
Speaker 1: that you've kind of things have changed, do you realize
Speaker 1: that actually, yeah, there's other stuff that's out there. Do
Speaker 1: you think it was yaking with such a drastic change,
Speaker 1: or like, what do you think it was? Yeah, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'll give I'll kind of step back a bit and
Speaker 1: give it a maybe convoluted answer, but I hope it
Speaker 1: provides me to clarity it for me. For me, it's
Speaker 1: like the way I've seeing my my brain kind of
Speaker 1: work across the last year, particularly around these care ambitions
Speaker 1: and taking risks. There's kind of two sides that I
Speaker 1: see myself wrestling with. There's there's a very idealistic side
Speaker 1: that UM gives gives me a lot of credit to
Speaker 1: be successful. So for example, in the acting domain, when
Speaker 1: I'm kind of standing and looking down the career path,
Speaker 1: my idealistic brain will be like this, this is something
Speaker 1: that makes you very happy when you do it, which
Speaker 1: which is which is actually quite true and not very idealistic,
Speaker 1: but it's the idea that if you if you in
Speaker 1: this industry, then you will be very successful UM, and
Speaker 1: a certain certainty in that UM. And then a more
Speaker 1: I guess critical or realistic side of the brain, which
Speaker 1: I guess takes that with the reality is that it
Speaker 1: comes with in that Okay, you think you're gonna be
Speaker 1: very successful. Every person who goes into it will be, um,
Speaker 1: only only one percent really are. So in terms of
Speaker 1: weighing how I want to spend the next how all
Speaker 1: my life to look like, you know, threes and acting
Speaker 1: school and then you know, maybe maybe getting a few
Speaker 1: great jobs that I love, but not having a lot
Speaker 1: of financial stability and regretting not taking a more stable
Speaker 1: career path would be the one I don't enjoy as
Speaker 1: much that that's that's the realization I came too. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: that makes a lot of sense. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: Let me let me know if it's to be convoluted. No, no,
Speaker 1: it made perfect sense. And I think that, like it's
Speaker 1: actually really interesting hearing that about you as a friend
Speaker 1: and being like, oh, I didn't understand. That's like how
Speaker 1: your brain was kind of working in terms of like
Speaker 1: you kind of having to weigh up. And I guess
Speaker 1: this is something that we deal with a lot in
Speaker 1: our twenties, is like, do take the road of passion
Speaker 1: and yeah, the one which you believe you'll feel fulfilled
Speaker 1: but perhaps not stable. Yeah, exactly. Everyone listening to this
Speaker 1: can relate. You know, we all have these aspirations of
Speaker 1: living in a van or being an artist or being
Speaker 1: a musician, or doing something that's against the against kind
Speaker 1: of the stream of life life, but then having to
Speaker 1: handle those practical limitations of oh I need to eat
Speaker 1: and yeah, yeah, you know, how much is this struggle
Speaker 1: really going to be worth for a few moments of
Speaker 1: like not even glory bit of satisfaction. Yeah. So it's
Speaker 1: kind of like you've done that equate. It's taking you
Speaker 1: a few months, I guess, but you've done that that
Speaker 1: equation in your own time. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of Yeah, it's it's it's interesting
Speaker 1: as well because when you when you're wearing it up,
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of emphasis on the individual
Speaker 1: in our culture, and there's a lot like the obsession
Speaker 1: with personalities and that sort of thing makes you inclined
Speaker 1: to believe that you know, you are the you are
Speaker 1: the one that won't make it, and that sort of thing. Um,
Speaker 1: but I think, yeah, I think it's I think it's worth,
Speaker 1: you know, at least wrestling with that with some potential realities.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, would you call it delusional? Would you call
Speaker 1: it delusional? Though? Because I feel like, hmm, yeah, it's no,
Speaker 1: that's interesting that's interesting. I think I think I would
Speaker 1: call it slightly delusional. But the weirdest thing about it
Speaker 1: is that if you don't have that, I don't think
Speaker 1: you'll ever be successful in that field. Yeah, like you
Speaker 1: really you need to have that conviction. Maybe don't. I don't,
Speaker 1: but at least the people, the people I've listened to
Speaker 1: who you know, and watching interviews with that that have
Speaker 1: done on that, the underlying thing is there is that conviction.
Speaker 1: So I think I think it may be slightly delusional,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean it's a it's a bad thing
Speaker 1: as long as you're willing to take the potential costs
Speaker 1: of you know, not being that successful. Yeah, we really
Speaker 1: are people, Yeah it is. Yeah, he's a cursed So
Speaker 1: I have to ask because I feel like we're both
Speaker 1: kind of at this stage where we have this like
Speaker 1: two road diverged situation. Yes, yeah, where I was like,
Speaker 1: we've got the corporate option, the stable option, the career
Speaker 1: progression house at thirty marriage at thirty five kind of option,
Speaker 1: and then we both have I think this is why
Speaker 1: we really connect as friends, is because then we both
Speaker 1: have these like very strong creative desires. Yeah, that seem
Speaker 1: like possibilities, And I wonder, you know, in ten years
Speaker 1: time if regardless which path, do you think you would
Speaker 1: be happier on, Like, do you think that you would? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: like all things considered. Do you think you would be
Speaker 1: happier as a successful actor, happier you know, regardless of
Speaker 1: of the stuff, the struggle that you've had to go
Speaker 1: you've had to go through. Or do you think you're
Speaker 1: going to be happier as someone who is working in politics?
Speaker 1: I'm sure very successful. Have you thought about that about it?
Speaker 1: But what do you think? Yeah? Yeah, no, absolutely absolutely. UM.
Speaker 1: I think it's like you're right when you're when you're
Speaker 1: stepping out of university and looking at getting what I
Speaker 1: guess the first job in your career is going to be.
Speaker 1: It can be two paths, um. I think for me.
Speaker 1: And I don't know how this resonates with you, because
Speaker 1: because by the way, Jenner's an absolutely incredible painter, um
Speaker 1: and also a really good writer, But you haven't written
Speaker 1: as much lately as you usually do. UM like very
Speaker 1: good writer, m very very good. UM. And yeah, at
Speaker 1: least for me, the I I because that's I think
Speaker 1: I started to the reason I was wearying on acting
Speaker 1: was because I did see it as a bit of
Speaker 1: a fork and that you know, if I didn't get
Speaker 1: into it now, then I never will. UM. The thing
Speaker 1: that really did it for me I really long conversation
Speaker 1: with my dad about you know this and what what
Speaker 1: um and weighing up my choices and how it would
Speaker 1: reflect And the best thing he said a bit he
Speaker 1: said to me was you know, just because you say
Speaker 1: no now, it doesn't mean the opportunity closed forever, which
Speaker 1: which sounds really basic. The kind of the way he
Speaker 1: framed it was that you can go off and have
Speaker 1: the current conventional career that you you know, might also
Speaker 1: quite enjoy and do the things creatively that you do
Speaker 1: you like, so you know, write, act whatever in your
Speaker 1: free time. UM, And there'll always be opportunities down the
Speaker 1: line to further explore that, particularly if you've been to
Speaker 1: you know, building it up in the background, if that
Speaker 1: makes sense. So I sounded it like a sellout, But no, no,
Speaker 1: I think that, like I swear it's true. What do
Speaker 1: you think? Well, I think that sounds exactly like something
Speaker 1: your dad would say. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, something your
Speaker 1: dad would say, yeah, Like you know, I go to
Speaker 1: your house and I get like tower cut readings from
Speaker 1: your parents, like yeah, and like energy readings like I
Speaker 1: think you're right. Well, his exact words were, you know, um,
Speaker 1: when when you ask us, His exact words were, when
Speaker 1: you ask something of the universe, you know it will
Speaker 1: provide you an opportunity, um many opportunit needs along your
Speaker 1: life path, which you know which which I usually take
Speaker 1: it face about you, but it was it was very reassuring.
Speaker 1: That's what you need to hear. I think at that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah he did. He said what you needed to hear,
Speaker 1: which is such kind of a beautiful thing, like, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: shout out to nevill and no, I'm definitely what I
Speaker 1: needed to hear, not what I think I wanted to hear,
Speaker 1: which is cool. But yeah, how do you see the
Speaker 1: two roads diverging in your place in it? We've talked
Speaker 1: about this a bit, I think actually, like we talked
Speaker 1: about it the other day, um, And I think I'm
Speaker 1: kind of at a bit of a I don't know,
Speaker 1: I am a little bit confused. I love having this podcast,
Speaker 1: but I think it is such a creative outlet and obviously, yeah,
Speaker 1: but it has been a thing where I think I've
Speaker 1: become quite existential and thinking about like the concept of
Speaker 1: like one life and um, you know is you know
Speaker 1: you're here to be head anyway, perhaps you should really
Speaker 1: just enjoy it. And it's kind of do you enjoy
Speaker 1: the risk and the idea of a big payoff with
Speaker 1: you enjoy the common luxuries? And that's a huge thing
Speaker 1: I've been you know, this like that I've been kind
Speaker 1: of thinking about recently is whether to take a creative path.
Speaker 1: And I think that, like what your dad said has
Speaker 1: been kind of my reasoning as well, in the less
Speaker 1: spiritual way, because he's a very spiritually blessed person, and
Speaker 1: more so, I was just kind of thinking, like, you know,
Speaker 1: I never know what opportunities may come up in the
Speaker 1: future and what financial freedom might actually be able to
Speaker 1: bring me in terms of realizing dreams moving to Kurumbin
Speaker 1: and having my art studio and having my creative studio
Speaker 1: and being able to bring women people and elderly people
Speaker 1: and anyone to come and join me. So it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, having I guess money is kind of the
Speaker 1: activates a lot of your future ambitions. And you know, Jack,
Speaker 1: like the guy who played Han Solo didn't become an
Speaker 1: actor to who is like forty true and true, You're
Speaker 1: going to be such a silver fox, like I would
Speaker 1: stop it. Yeah, I'm I'm worried about being silver fox.
Speaker 1: Every My mum's a hairdresser, and every time we go
Speaker 1: to Sydney, she she will find like one or two
Speaker 1: gray hairs growing when I'm getting my haircut. Um. God,
Speaker 1: So I don't know if I can spoil the look.
Speaker 1: I hope I can, but yeah, I think that you can.
Speaker 1: Your mom is an excellent hairdresser as well. I remember
Speaker 1: last time we went up there and I had like
Speaker 1: this two hour like your dad, because I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm close close to your family. I really Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: they love you. I honestly, they speak so highly of you.
Speaker 1: Um like like kind of on part with Milan, who's
Speaker 1: been my best friend since preschool. They really like it
Speaker 1: territory did um No, they're really They're just such lovely people.
Speaker 1: I think very highly of them as well. Actually, so
Speaker 1: hopefully you share this that you did this show with
Speaker 1: me so you can like me more. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I'll show my parents. Hey guys, hey mom and dad. Hi.
Speaker 1: I remember like going up there. They just provide such
Speaker 1: wide advice in your mom. I'm just going through a
Speaker 1: break up at the time, and your mom gave me
Speaker 1: like the post breakup haircut, you know, and they look good.
Speaker 1: They look good as well, thank you. They're not looking
Speaker 1: as great as than your mum. Yeah banging, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: they're not looking as good as they called banks yeah banks, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're such a guy sometimes yeah bangs And I remember, yeah,
Speaker 1: anyhow that was an event later that evening, so yeah,
Speaker 1: but yeah, they do provide excellent advice and like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think what your dad said is completely real and
Speaker 1: just something that we all have to consider and a
Speaker 1: big shout out to people who do choose to take
Speaker 1: that roadless travel and it is like something that we
Speaker 1: all come across. But in terms of the kind of
Speaker 1: lifestyle you have now tapping into your creative side, what's
Speaker 1: that kind of one habit that you've picked up that
Speaker 1: you kind of want to see yourself doing in ten
Speaker 1: years would you would you hope that you're still writing
Speaker 1: and still acting or do you see? Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: I see. I don't really know. I think. Um, like
Speaker 1: as we're talking about earlier, first year Jack would would
Speaker 1: have a ten year kind of trajectory. But but if
Speaker 1: if it's like anything, the last you know I'll make.
Speaker 1: This is a really boring answer, but but but I've
Speaker 1: stopped making really long term plans in life because I
Speaker 1: realized that what I enjoy and what I'm discovering about
Speaker 1: myself changes so often that I'm constantly relearning how to
Speaker 1: live a happy life. Um. But I think that things
Speaker 1: that I've learned as a solid which which makes you
Speaker 1: very happy, which I'd want to do in the future.
Speaker 1: It's definitely definitely writing creatively, um in you know, I'll
Speaker 1: on on my off days, I'll usually have a routine
Speaker 1: where I'll get up in the morning and get down
Speaker 1: on the keyboard and I'll do an hour at least.
Speaker 1: So I hope I'm still doing that because I think
Speaker 1: it's a really good way to kind of express yourself.
Speaker 1: Um And it's a good of a pressure about for me.
Speaker 1: It really releases a lot of a lot of energy
Speaker 1: and thoughts and ideas that I have. Um yeah, that
Speaker 1: would be the one thing I think that I want
Speaker 1: to keep consistent, you know, he keep keep you know,
Speaker 1: kind of kind of like when I first started doing it.
Speaker 1: Keep keep expressing what I'm thinking and going through the
Speaker 1: moment um and you know, turning that into some form
Speaker 1: of entertaining art. Yeah, would you ever write a novel?
Speaker 1: I've never asked you this. Do you think you could
Speaker 1: write an oh something like that? I write, yeah, yeah, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: that's that's a really good question. I I don't. I
Speaker 1: think I would love to, but I don't think I
Speaker 1: have yet. This is this is a kind of I
Speaker 1: really haven't tested it, but I don't really think I
Speaker 1: have the attention span right now. Um, I find that
Speaker 1: what I like, you definitely know this. What I enjoy
Speaker 1: changes every week, and so I would get one. I like.
Speaker 1: The best part of short stories is that you can
Speaker 1: write it in two days or three days. Um. Novels,
Speaker 1: it's like a it's like a six month, twelve month,
Speaker 1: eighteen month journey. Um. I think it's maybe later in life,
Speaker 1: when I settled down, start and start getting a bit
Speaker 1: more stable with my passions, I can commit to something.
Speaker 1: Um yeah yeah, if it was yeah, yeah, well yeah,
Speaker 1: if it was, tell me tell me now you go, no,
Speaker 1: I want to hear. If it wasn't, well, I think
Speaker 1: I think if it was, I'd love to do like
Speaker 1: a little like Aldus Huxley, kind of utopia. Um. He
Speaker 1: did this, he did he wrote this book. He's he's
Speaker 1: the author of Brave New World, which is the bad utopia,
Speaker 1: the dystopia. But he did this awesome book called Ireland,
Speaker 1: and it is he spent about five years researching all
Speaker 1: of these different things about spirituality, social psychology. Um. A
Speaker 1: lot of it was a lot of Eastern religion and
Speaker 1: Western science kind of fused, and he wrote this really
Speaker 1: beautiful utopia based on you know what we knew about
Speaker 1: humanity at the time. That was really cool. What what
Speaker 1: was what? What was it like? So it was it
Speaker 1: was based on an island and the there are a
Speaker 1: few really cool principles of it, which was that all
Speaker 1: the children belonged to First of all, the population was
Speaker 1: very small, um. And all the children exactly yeah um.
Speaker 1: And all the children belonged to like every parent sort
Speaker 1: of thing. So it was like kind of collective child
Speaker 1: child rearing. Um. And there was a lot of meditation
Speaker 1: that was emphasized, a lot of There are a few principles.
Speaker 1: I read it eight years ago, so I forgot it.
Speaker 1: Forgot an example. They are, yeah, yeah, well it was cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We were talking about Boda the other day while he
Speaker 1: was weirdo yeah, yeah, exactly, I know. No, yeah, literally
Speaker 1: he sat on a tree for two weeks. I need
Speaker 1: to realize, you know, at the end of it, this
Speaker 1: is a bit much. I need to chill out and
Speaker 1: take the middle path. I would just be craving char time.
Speaker 1: Can you get delivery to your bordhis tree? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, I think I yeah, no, I don't want
Speaker 1: to disparage the listeners, but um, we respect every religion here.
Speaker 1: We definitely Hey, but you know what we need to
Speaker 1: do next year because I feel like we could both
Speaker 1: write novels and maybe fucking bab Yeah. Well, I just
Speaker 1: think we need to just like do some really crazy
Speaker 1: stuff and just like really pushing ab our boundaries and
Speaker 1: just have like wild experiences like I feel like we
Speaker 1: liked it. Next year we need to just have just
Speaker 1: do something like I feel like what you're talking about, Like,
Speaker 1: I know you're talking about more of a utopian, dystopian
Speaker 1: future world. M thinking my some yeah, I think it's
Speaker 1: more based than not so much political and sociological idealism.
Speaker 1: It's more Yeah, I love to write like an excellent
Speaker 1: like coming of age story like some yeah, raw and
Speaker 1: and it's yeah, yeah, terrify life is, but also just
Speaker 1: how just experiences and the human experience. And I feel
Speaker 1: like it's such like an amazing time to kind of
Speaker 1: like make those because I feel like all good stories
Speaker 1: come from a place that's very real. Yeah absolutely, no,
Speaker 1: I really I really like that idea. That's that is
Speaker 1: that's fantastic. I really like that. Well yeah no no no,
Speaker 1: but like but no, it's it's a really cool thing though,
Speaker 1: and I think, um, it definitely be worth like sitting
Speaker 1: down and talking about it. Yeah, because because because I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: you go yeah, no, no, no, you go just living well,
Speaker 1: like being like poor, We're not going to be poor.
Speaker 1: I felt it's bad to say, but like young people
Speaker 1: in Sydney, like I just I don't know, maybe that's
Speaker 1: like a cliche like something that's been done before. Maybe
Speaker 1: I'm idealizing our future life, but like yeah, just having
Speaker 1: all those experiences and I think, also, you know this
Speaker 1: very well about me, Like I'm very obsessed with like
Speaker 1: capturing your youth. And yeah, that's why I do like
Speaker 1: my one second a day, That's why I do these
Speaker 1: podcast episodes, just like being able to have something to
Speaker 1: look back on and relate to and being like, wow,
Speaker 1: like you know, my biggest spirits being like forty with
Speaker 1: kids and not being able to know to know to
Speaker 1: look back on and reflect on all the experiences that
Speaker 1: I had absolutely so profound, and I just think like messy,
Speaker 1: just messy. Yeah, yeah, No, I like that, No, because
Speaker 1: I think I was I was thinking of doing this
Speaker 1: for a while, but kind of going back through my
Speaker 1: journal entries and kind of looking at the kind of
Speaker 1: shape my life has taken and have grown um and
Speaker 1: like by way of Cathars, it's maybe revisiting those painful
Speaker 1: moments and capturing that somehow. And so I like your
Speaker 1: idea of capturing like a messy coming of age use Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I also like, like, I think I think, you know,
Speaker 1: at least at least my years growing up, you see
Speaker 1: adults who have it all kind of together and what
Speaker 1: a stability and you said, really hard expectations on yourself.
Speaker 1: So I think the kind of raw art forms that
Speaker 1: I've definitely been emerging the past few years about how
Speaker 1: messed up and scary and terrifying life can be the
Speaker 1: best I can give the most comfort. Yeah, absolutely, And
Speaker 1: I think like the that's it's a good point. And
Speaker 1: I think that like my favorite book, like A Little Life,
Speaker 1: it does that really well. Maybe that's where I'm getting
Speaker 1: my inspiration from because I just read it. But it
Speaker 1: follows these like people from the ages of when I
Speaker 1: was sixteen to like forty, living like in New York,
Speaker 1: following all these different career paths, and I'm just their
Speaker 1: lives and all the things that happened to them, and
Speaker 1: the conflict and the love and not just the drama,
Speaker 1: but just like the nuance of human interaction. Oh, it's
Speaker 1: just the most like real life is just I think.
Speaker 1: And that's just like that book excellently, I think. To
Speaker 1: read it, Yeah you don't. I think it's very long,
Speaker 1: but I think you would really like it at this
Speaker 1: point of life. Actually, i'll give you my copy, No,
Speaker 1: thank you. You're either there's a there's a real beauty
Speaker 1: in like capturing those little moments. Yeah, and and kind
Speaker 1: of I don't know, it's really hard to describe, but
Speaker 1: you kind of it's almost like where where you kind
Speaker 1: of touch life, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's you can really you can really feel it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like it's like you can really feel it's very granular. Um. Yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway, No, no, no,
Speaker 1: you're You're absolutely right. And I think that like the
Speaker 1: big part of what I love this book is there's
Speaker 1: no moral. There's no like moral of the story. Like
Speaker 1: it's not trying to teach you anything. It's not like
Speaker 1: all those books you have to read in high school
Speaker 1: where it's like same of you know, redemption or guilt
Speaker 1: or honesty or bravery. It's just it's not trying to
Speaker 1: you anything. It's not giving you a moral. Like I
Speaker 1: think it's the most adult book I've ever read because
Speaker 1: it's just like, yeah, this is the brutality of life,
Speaker 1: and it's joyful and it's hard, and it's not kind
Speaker 1: of force anything on you in terms of an ideology.
Speaker 1: It's like a reflection. And reading it, I was just
Speaker 1: like these characters just make such like she just creates
Speaker 1: such a beautiful, beautiful world that feels so real. And
Speaker 1: I think I've said I like said this to the
Speaker 1: guy that I'm saying. Um. The other day I was like,
Speaker 1: oh fuck, I forgot what I said. Oh yeah, Like
Speaker 1: I haven't read the final I'm so terrified of it
Speaker 1: ending because it just is so real, Like I know
Speaker 1: that something bad. Yeah right, I know, and I just
Speaker 1: I've never read it. I've read the book so many times.
Speaker 1: Last pages. Yeah yeah, because it feels like I love
Speaker 1: I love spoiling things, so I'll have to hold myself
Speaker 1: together after I read it. But oh, I know what happened,
Speaker 1: Like I don't want to spoil it, but I just know,
Speaker 1: like it's all leading up to this point, and I'm
Speaker 1: just like terrified because it's just so fucking real and
Speaker 1: so existential and it's just like too much for me.
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, No, it's you're either, it's it's it
Speaker 1: is really reassuring seeing those types of things where there's
Speaker 1: no theme or moral lesson, it's just it's it's people
Speaker 1: trying to reflect their own realities. Um. I think it's
Speaker 1: been a huge thing that's come up in the TV
Speaker 1: scene at the momentum where you have like like this,
Speaker 1: what's the show Euphoria was a really good example where
Speaker 1: kind of it's not thematic, it just gives like like this,
Speaker 1: very very real stories about what people go through. Um,
Speaker 1: and it has this I'll never forget. It has these
Speaker 1: amazing introductions to each episode where it the episodes will
Speaker 1: kind of take a focus on a particular character, but
Speaker 1: it gives you the kind of character's story and upbringing
Speaker 1: in background at the start of it. So, for example,
Speaker 1: there's Um. One of the stories focuses on a closet
Speaker 1: homosexual and he Um goes through this background of of
Speaker 1: you know, him being shamed by his dad for for
Speaker 1: being feminine and making the football team and all this thing. Um,
Speaker 1: and then you kind of see his story play out
Speaker 1: in the episode and you always thought he was a
Speaker 1: bit of a dick in the previous ones, and it
Speaker 1: just completely covers a complete the image. Wow, just flips
Speaker 1: the narrative. It's kind of also like the way back
Speaker 1: which you and Tom recommend it to me, where it's
Speaker 1: just like just his dirty life, like yeah, yeah, that's it,
Speaker 1: Like that's it. I don't know, maybe there's like maybe
Speaker 1: someone who studies literature can like give us like the
Speaker 1: name for what kind of a job that we're talking about, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: perhaps that's why we will never write a novel because
Speaker 1: we don't know enough about literature. But yeah, I feel
Speaker 1: like there's a name for it that someone leave it
Speaker 1: in the show. I don't know, reach out notes team. Yeah, no, definitely, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we've been recording for almost an hour. Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1: So yeah, before before we went on, you said it
Speaker 1: was going to go fast, and it went very fast.
Speaker 1: I hope it embarrassed myself because I was very nervous
Speaker 1: at the start and I don't like coming across in
Speaker 1: a that way, so I think I was being careful
Speaker 1: about that, but I hope it was right. No, dude,
Speaker 1: this was like, literally, I think the best part about
Speaker 1: good friends is realizing that no matter how long you've
Speaker 1: been friends, you can still discover something new about someone
Speaker 1: like yeah, and still have incredibly engaging conversations that are
Speaker 1: just like really lightening. So I have to say, I'm like,
Speaker 1: thank you for having me on. It was. It's it's
Speaker 1: really cool invitation to have a very just in conversation
Speaker 1: and you ask very very good questions. So am I
Speaker 1: the next Oprah? Could I be? Yeah? I think so,
Speaker 1: I think so. Yeah, if Australia had an opera, thanks babe,
Speaker 1: it's going to be my new That's going to be
Speaker 1: my highlot of the week now. But yeah, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for coming on. You're such a dear friend.
Speaker 1: So it was, And I think we've been talking about
Speaker 1: doing this episode for a while, and I'm sure the
Speaker 1: listeners who are still listening you'll hear from him again.
Speaker 1: We've got another episode in the work. We barely even
Speaker 1: talked about it, actually, considering how much we've discussed it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm kind of glad that we didn't touch
Speaker 1: on it because I feel like it's such an episode
Speaker 1: in its own right. Yeah. No, a little sneaky surprise. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: a little sneak So you'll be hearing more of Jack's voice. Yeah, yeah, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: enjoy it him. But yeah, thank you so much to Jack,
Speaker 1: one of my my co writers, as I said start,
Speaker 1: who helps me out with so many of these ideas
Speaker 1: and we have so many discussions and he's you're just
Speaker 1: such a big inspiration. You really pushed me to do this.
Speaker 1: So a real gratitude um extending out to you. But yeah,
Speaker 1: thanks Jackie, thank you. That's that's really kind. And yeah,
Speaker 1: thanks thanks for being such an awesome friend. And yeah,
Speaker 1: sorry you go, you're doing your outro. I need I
Speaker 1: need to stop talking. You're doing No, No, I was
Speaker 1: just I was just going to say this is it's
Speaker 1: so good that you've committed to this for so long.
Speaker 1: You've the podcast has been amazing and no, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: often in are of of the things you do constantly
Speaker 1: so but I don't say that often. True friends, true
Speaker 1: but true. Thanks thanks to Jack for stoking my ego there.
Speaker 1: Um remember to well if you liked the episode, which
Speaker 1: I hope you hope you flipping did because it was
Speaker 1: buddy good. I hope you subscribe to us on Spotify,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, wherever you're listening right now, follow us on Instagram. Um,
Speaker 1: and yeah, I hope you really enjoyed the episode, so
Speaker 1: thanks for listening and bye Jack, So yeah, see you guys.
Speaker 1: Th