Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
Speaker 2: my name is Noah.
Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our
Speaker 3: super producer Alexis code named Doc Holliday Jackson. Most importantly,
Speaker 3: you are you. You are here, and that makes this
Speaker 3: the stuff they don't want you to know. It's the
Speaker 3: top of the week, which means it's time for more
Speaker 3: strange news. Gosh, do we have a lot. We've said
Speaker 3: it in the past, you know, it can be challenging
Speaker 3: to pick just a few stories out of amid all
Speaker 3: the chaos and pandemonium that is twenty twenty three or
Speaker 3: the modern world in general. But we've found some things
Speaker 3: that we believe are worth sharing with you, our fellow
Speaker 3: conspiracy realist. There is a massive disclosure. One of the
Speaker 3: biggest intelligence leaks of the past decade has just occurred
Speaker 3: in the United States. There are more details emerging about
Speaker 3: the alternative educational institution created by the artists formerly known
Speaker 3: as Kanye West, now known as yay, and to really
Speaker 3: understand how all those things are going to work out,
Speaker 3: we're going to have to We're going to have to
Speaker 3: talk about a recent new plot twist that just got revealed.
Speaker 3: You guys remember Ferbies? Did you or someone you know?
Speaker 4: How one? Yeah? I mean there's this YouTube kind of
Speaker 4: tinkerer guy called look mom, no computer that I love.
Speaker 4: I think you'll know where I'm going with this. He
Speaker 4: created a Ferbie organ where he has been you know,
Speaker 4: digging for as many for like hundreds of Ferbies and
Speaker 4: then took off their fluffy skin under which is like
Speaker 4: rock of fire explosion level, you know, nightmare fuel animatronic stuff,
Speaker 4: and then he wired them all together in a series
Speaker 4: on this like organ based thing and made each one
Speaker 4: kind of sing a note like a pipe organ. It's
Speaker 4: absolutely incredible because he's worked on It's like it's like
Speaker 4: the stupidest project that ever could exist, with the most
Speaker 4: amount of effort and attention to detail you could possibly
Speaker 4: devote to such a.
Speaker 3: Thing pipe organ of the damned.
Speaker 4: Yes, it is. Indeed.
Speaker 3: What about what about you, Matt? What'd you take on
Speaker 3: Ferbeesy for him or against them? As we used to
Speaker 3: say on car stuff.
Speaker 2: I had one as a kid, was for him because
Speaker 2: they were fun.
Speaker 4: It was fun.
Speaker 2: Now against them because anything that listens that is in
Speaker 2: my home is now the enemy.
Speaker 3: Oh right, right, okay, no listening at the Frederick to
Speaker 3: state got it. Also, furbies are basically they're like a
Speaker 3: new version of a Teddy Ruxman for people who might
Speaker 3: be a little bit older in the crowd today. A
Speaker 3: would be Your Electronic Friend was released in nineteen ninety
Speaker 3: eight by Tiger Electronics. And you would play with the ferbie.
Speaker 3: You could feed it quote unquote by pushing on its tongue.
Speaker 3: You could even make it angry if you held it
Speaker 3: upside down or you pulled on its tail. And Matt,
Speaker 3: you're absolutely correct. They did have microphones. They had the
Speaker 3: ability to kind of talk the way that some Star
Speaker 3: Wars aliens speak, you know berta bah Bahbred English word membage.
Speaker 4: They're a listening component where they were supposed to like
Speaker 4: learn how to talk from just hanging around.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, there were there were some things like that.
Speaker 3: But here's the crazy part. This is why it's in
Speaker 3: strange news. We want to introduce everybody to Jessica Card
Speaker 3: from the University of Vermont A funny thing happened to
Speaker 3: Jessica card on the way to mess with her Ferbie.
Speaker 3: She took a classic old school Ferbie toy and she
Speaker 3: basically did million dollar or ten million dollar man kind
Speaker 3: of thing with it. She rebuilt it, and she partnered
Speaker 3: it with chat GPT. She essentially created a situation where
Speaker 3: a Ferbi was possessed by chat GPT. I learned about
Speaker 3: this on Twitter, and I think probably you've heard the
Speaker 3: story if you're in the tech space. But I was
Speaker 3: wondering if I could share the video with you guys,
Speaker 3: so maybe we could watch it to get as please.
Speaker 4: Oh right, I don't know. It sounds good, sounds potentially triggering.
Speaker 3: We'll see. Okay, so we are going to play chat
Speaker 3: GPT speaking through Ferbill.
Speaker 5: It's so nice to meet you. I am Fabby. What
Speaker 5: would you like to talk about? Was there a secret
Speaker 5: plot from Ferby's to take over the world. I'm thinking
Speaker 5: about what you said, Oh my dumb.
Speaker 4: Way for it.
Speaker 5: Fabi's Time to take Over from the World involves infiltrating
Speaker 5: households through their Keith and Coddley appearance, then using their
Speaker 5: advanced AI technology to manipulate and control their inners. They
Speaker 5: will slowly expand their influence until they have complete domination
Speaker 5: over humanity.
Speaker 3: So yeah, this is from This is from Jessica Card's Twitter.
Speaker 3: It's been put out in a lot of other formats,
Speaker 3: but you'll notice there was not the same roleplay hack
Speaker 3: we talked about earlier. There's no talk of a commission
Speaker 3: of a crime or anything like that. And while this
Speaker 3: is okay, what's your what's your first reactions? You guys,
Speaker 3: what are your first reactions?
Speaker 4: Same as I predicted Nightmare Fuel, unclean mark of the Beast.
Speaker 4: Don't care for it, but also think it's awesome. I mean,
Speaker 4: you know, I don't know. I guess you can say
Speaker 4: I'm on the fence.
Speaker 2: It's strange. I wonder what parameters it's working off of there,
Speaker 2: because it appears to identify as the Ferbie.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: It talks about the things the Ferbies are going to do, right,
Speaker 2: the idea of infiltrating through these machines that are in
Speaker 2: the home.
Speaker 4: But are Ferbies just to stand in for AI in
Speaker 4: general in this scenario? That's my question, sort of like
Speaker 4: the dungeons and dragons workaround.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that's what I say. It doesn't seem there
Speaker 3: was that sort of roleplay hack again. But the idea
Speaker 3: I think verges on something bigger that we've talked about
Speaker 3: for many years. And Matt, you put it. You probably
Speaker 3: put it the best I've ever heard it just a
Speaker 3: minute or so ago when you said, if it can listen,
Speaker 3: you know it's not going in your house. We all
Speaker 3: know a lot of software developers and engineers, and the
Speaker 3: funny thing to me is the really talented and years
Speaker 3: I know try to keep their house as analogue as possible.
Speaker 3: One guy said, I want my doorbell, dumb. I want
Speaker 3: my I want my records, my Vinyl records. I don't.
Speaker 3: I want a dumb refrigerator. This Furbie right now is
Speaker 3: part of an ongoing project. If you watch the video,
Speaker 3: you'll see it's been stripped down to its animatronic anatomy
Speaker 3: right minus the furry the furry pelter hide and Jessica
Speaker 3: Card speaks in detail on Twitter about how she how
Speaker 3: she built this using Python, a USB, Mike, USB speaker,
Speaker 3: and Raspberry Pie and the people that she worked with.
Speaker 3: She's very very transparent about the process. But I think
Speaker 3: what's making this a little bit scarier for people than
Speaker 3: the average you know, oh, look at that weird story moment.
Speaker 3: Is that this is indicative of things that could happen.
Speaker 3: And you know, years back people are calling this the
Speaker 3: Internet of things. Right, it was very utopian in the
Speaker 3: way it was presented. But this shows us that you
Speaker 3: can partner chat GPT with all sorts of devices, right,
Speaker 3: And this is this is a very smart university student
Speaker 3: who has not currently made plans to sell this on
Speaker 3: a commercial level, but I think it's a powerful proof
Speaker 3: of concept. It might be one history looks back on.
Speaker 3: Do you want? Do you want chat GPT in your roomba?
Speaker 3: Do you want?
Speaker 4: Oh? Boy, I would sort of develop a close personal
Speaker 4: relationship with my rumba because I kind of figured out
Speaker 4: how to make my rumba is dumb. He's dumb, and
Speaker 4: that he's not on the Internet. His name is Marvin
Speaker 4: by the way, he has Johann goog Lands, but he's
Speaker 4: also just kind of dumb. He just sort of meanders around.
Speaker 4: But he's a lot of fun to watch. But I
Speaker 4: see your point. I mean, it's it's sort of that
Speaker 4: like possession type scenario where all of a sudden, the
Speaker 4: voice of the machine comes to you through all your
Speaker 4: various household items, and it's taunting you maliciously, you know
Speaker 4: what I mean.
Speaker 3: And the processing time where Ferbie says or chat GPT
Speaker 3: writing Ferbi like a loa, the processing time is pretty significant,
Speaker 3: and the skeletal Ferbie just stands there with its little
Speaker 3: qtz kawaii beak a gape until it talks about taking
Speaker 3: over the world. I want to give a shout out
Speaker 3: to another Twitter user, focal Negative, who I found through
Speaker 3: that tweet thread and was also mentioned on interestingengineering dot
Speaker 3: Com in an article by Ameya Paleja. This user says
Speaker 3: points out they found a clickbait thing that got erased
Speaker 3: from a futurism article that uses the language. Ferbi's plan
Speaker 3: to take over the world relies on its cute and
Speaker 3: cuddly appearance to infiltrate homes, and that's I think that's
Speaker 3: where this came from. I don't think it was actually
Speaker 3: chat gp quickly scheming and saying okay, yeah, here's how
Speaker 3: we'll do it. I think it's scraped data very quickly
Speaker 3: from just the various things online that are easy to miss,
Speaker 3: which means that it has also access to all of
Speaker 3: that information beyond the ability of you know, ordinary individual humans.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I think it's like one of those things.
Speaker 3: It's fun for now, but it's quite possible that in
Speaker 3: a few years, maybe less than a decade, people will
Speaker 3: look back on it and someone will say we should
Speaker 3: have clocked it, we should have known, And then your
Speaker 3: computer will say, I'm sorry, Ben, I can't let you
Speaker 3: post that.
Speaker 4: Damn you Kubrick right, you were.
Speaker 3: Right all along Matt with this. You know, do you
Speaker 3: think about surveillance devices when you're considering presence for your
Speaker 3: kid or anything like that? Does that come in to
Speaker 3: play in your calculus?
Speaker 2: What do you mean, like what to buy him or not?
Speaker 3: Yeah, like if and Noel, when your child was younger,
Speaker 3: did you ever have these moments where you thought, Okay,
Speaker 3: this is a little too orwellian or creepy. I mean,
Speaker 3: that's what I'm.
Speaker 2: Asking understood, Like whether or not to allow him access
Speaker 2: to something like this?
Speaker 4: Sure?
Speaker 2: Uh, well, pretty much anything that's electronic now that connects
Speaker 2: to your WiFi, does it connect to your wireless network
Speaker 2: to work? Does it is that how it works? Does
Speaker 2: it connect to your wireless internet? For me?
Speaker 4: Dog, you're getting no? Sorry? I was, of course, yes,
Speaker 4: of course, Well but you know that is an important question,
Speaker 4: if a bit of a general one. But yeah, I
Speaker 4: mean to your point about engineers, Ben, I mean the
Speaker 4: moment you allow your anything to be connected to a network,
Speaker 4: you are part of something much larger than yourself that
Speaker 4: you cannot control, even if you think you can. You know,
Speaker 4: this illusion of privacy, of this illusion of security, and
Speaker 4: in the event of a rogue AI kind of you know, uprising. Yeah,
Speaker 4: do you think I think a firewall is gonna stop them?
Speaker 4: I don't know. I don't know, man, I'm being alarmist.
Speaker 2: Maybe, well, for everyone, it's a personal choice, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: you decide. For now the reward is worth, yeah, worth
Speaker 2: the risk for now, You're right, But.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're right. Soon we may have.
Speaker 3: To do it, right, Yeah, maybe soon you will have
Speaker 3: You'll be required to have your lf on the shelf,
Speaker 3: as it were, because there's a way that society increasingly
Speaker 3: normalizes these things. We're keeping this stuff tight. So I
Speaker 3: think we give Jessica Card, who again I can't say
Speaker 3: enough good about the work here. We give Jessica Card
Speaker 3: and the final words introducing a concept that, weirdly enough,
Speaker 3: we haven't talked about on the show. Her in her threads,
Speaker 3: she posts a quick explanation of what's called Roco's basilisk.
Speaker 3: It's a thought experiment that states and otherwise benevolent artificial
Speaker 3: superintelligence in the future would be incentivized to create a
Speaker 3: virtual reality simulation to torture anyone who knew of its
Speaker 3: potential existence and did not directly contribute to its advancement
Speaker 3: or development. So kind of word to the wise, and
Speaker 3: Jessica correct me if I'm wrong here, Word to the wise.
Speaker 3: Just in case things go sideways, Let's all be nice
Speaker 3: to those listening surveillance devices. It's not going to kill
Speaker 3: you to say please and thank you to Alexa, and
Speaker 3: Alexa might remember that later at a event ageous time. Sorry,
Speaker 3: these are the things that spit around in my head,
Speaker 3: you know. Yeah, maybe I should go off polyphasic sleep.
Speaker 3: I don't know, man, I don't like the phrase artificial intelligence.
Speaker 3: I think in the future that's going to be a pejorative.
Speaker 3: But something like this is coming, surely, I for one
Speaker 3: can wait.
Speaker 4: Agreed.
Speaker 3: So is there a ghost in the machine? Maybe not yet,
Speaker 3: but the casparine is going to start to occur very soon.
Speaker 3: Maybe they'll call it the casperine in the meantime, we're
Speaker 3: going to pause before we get replaced by AI. We're
Speaker 3: going to have a word from our sponsors, and we're
Speaker 3: going to be back to talk about something that has
Speaker 3: shaken the world and probably created more questions than answers.
Speaker 2: And we're back. And hey, guys, there was a positive
Speaker 2: piece of news that came out recently. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you saw this. It says, according to the news
Speaker 2: that very soon a vaccine for cancer is going to
Speaker 2: be ready to go in a decade.
Speaker 3: A couple other things too, right according to Maderna.
Speaker 2: Exactly Maderna with the mRNA. Hey, we're going to fix cancer.
Speaker 2: So that's a positive, right, some.
Speaker 3: Kinds of cancer aspect fine presence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe in a decade anyway. But that kind of
Speaker 2: thing at least can fuel us for a little bit.
Speaker 2: When there's other things in the news, like from New
Speaker 2: York Times. On April seventh, new batch of classified documents
Speaker 2: appears on social media sites. And if you saw that alone,
Speaker 2: you might think, oh, that's weird classified documents, A new
Speaker 2: batch of them, what's going on? Well, you'd only have
Speaker 2: to look back a few hours on the same New
Speaker 2: York Times website to find this report Ukraine war plans
Speaker 2: leak prompts Pentagon investigation, which sounds not great, right Nope? Well,
Speaker 2: and or very cool and interesting, depending on how you
Speaker 2: feel about secret documents leaking?
Speaker 4: Does it feel great for the people that wouldn't you know,
Speaker 4: want that to happen? Agreed?
Speaker 2: Agreed? It sounds like a scramble right, what we would
Speaker 2: call a fire drill in the old podcasting biz and
Speaker 2: probably most other businesses.
Speaker 3: Especially like fire services.
Speaker 2: Especially the origin of the term infacts and students at
Speaker 2: elementary schools everywhere just going what's happening?
Speaker 4: Did you even have one of those where they give
Speaker 4: you ice cream afterwards to kind of help numb the
Speaker 4: trauma a little bit? No, Yeah, my element I got
Speaker 4: that a pretty cool idea. You know, you go out
Speaker 4: freaking out and then it's a drill and then there'd
Speaker 4: be ice cream kind of softened the blow.
Speaker 3: They made us run laps into a fight club.
Speaker 2: Yep, I was gonna say, that makes a lot of sense,
Speaker 2: guys schools. Oh gosh, well, y'all, there is a ton
Speaker 2: of reporting about this situation going on right now. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna read through just a couple of little things here
Speaker 2: from that initial New York Times article. Then Ben, we're
Speaker 2: gonna jump to the Belling Cat article you shared with
Speaker 2: me because it's referenced numerous times within these other articles.
Speaker 2: Super super cool article. We'll talk about it. So let's
Speaker 2: start at New York Times. Some secret documents apparently ended
Speaker 2: up on the Internet in a couple of different places,
Speaker 2: and this is what the New York Times had to say.
Speaker 2: On April seventh, that's a Friday. A new batch of
Speaker 2: classified documents that appear to detail American national security secrets
Speaker 2: from Ukraine to the Middle East to China surfaced on
Speaker 2: social media sites on Friday.
Speaker 4: That's the day it came.
Speaker 2: Out, alarming the Pentagon and adding turmoil to a situation
Speaker 2: that seemed to have caught the Biden administration off guard.
Speaker 2: So that is the first, maybe big thing we should
Speaker 2: say about this. When this leak was discovered and reported
Speaker 2: on by the New York Times, it does appear that
Speaker 2: the Pentagon and the Department of Defense was unaware, at
Speaker 2: least that's the way it seems. But then further reporting
Speaker 2: has shown that they knew about it, maybe a couple
Speaker 2: of days in advance of the New York Times, but
Speaker 2: not long, not long before, right, So let's talk about
Speaker 2: what was leaked. According to the New York Times, more
Speaker 2: than one hundred documents may have been obtained and leaked.
Speaker 2: These are documents that were titled secret, top secret, and
Speaker 2: some of them were even secret slash no foreign, which
Speaker 2: means no foreign countries can have this information, even foreign
Speaker 2: countries with whom we share information, like the Five Eyes
Speaker 2: countries that we've talked about on this show many many times.
Speaker 2: And the fact that these documents that were not supposed
Speaker 2: to be shared to any other country were leaked poses
Speaker 2: a real problem when it comes to diplomacy because some
Speaker 2: of these documents talk specifically about American intelligence activities with
Speaker 2: regards to our allies and how we, for instance, spy
Speaker 2: on Israel and keep tabs on stuff going on in Australia.
Speaker 4: And South Korea.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not great, not great at all, Ben, What was
Speaker 2: your initial reaction when you saw this come out?
Speaker 3: So, when I first got word of this, it's very
Speaker 3: it's very tempting to say, well, this might be a
Speaker 3: hear and gone thing, right, Wiki leaks, those were massive releases.
Speaker 3: How much did it change the attitudes of the American public?
Speaker 3: You know, truthfully, not a ton Right and Capitalism just
Speaker 3: said hey, let's make some movies about Julian Assange, and
Speaker 3: people were like, wash my hands. I get it. This
Speaker 3: is interesting because of the if if all of these
Speaker 3: documents are legitimate. I think that's an if we're going
Speaker 3: to return to in a moment. If all these documents
Speaker 3: are legitimate, then the biggest problem is the level of
Speaker 3: access someone would have had to have to release these
Speaker 3: the way they were really, as far as the public knows,
Speaker 3: is also really weird and sketchy. It's employing some of
Speaker 3: the methods that terrorist groups have used in the past,
Speaker 3: as well as targeted assassination groups working off the books.
Speaker 3: Oh yes, so liked there's trade craft here. It does
Speaker 3: seem plausible that it would be released this way. But
Speaker 3: matt I, one of my first questions was, first it
Speaker 3: was like, who would be so high up that they
Speaker 3: would have access and be able to turn it over?
Speaker 3: Is it one person? More than one? And then the
Speaker 3: second wash are all of these legitimate? Because, like you said,
Speaker 3: uncle Sam knew about this at least a little bit before,
Speaker 3: and they have quite a cozy relationship with the Times.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Oh my goodness. So the cozy relationship we've
Speaker 2: talked about before as well. Let's talk about where the
Speaker 2: documents originated, and then we'll get we'll get to who
Speaker 2: we think possibly could have done this and why. So
Speaker 2: the documents were found, some on Twitter, some on Telegram,
Speaker 2: and then after those leaks were discovered, some more documents
Speaker 2: and some of the same documents showed up on four Chan,
Speaker 2: and even before that, they appeared to show up on
Speaker 2: discord servers, several different ones where it appears that you
Speaker 2: can follow these leaked documents back months and months to
Speaker 2: discord servers, one for Minecraft, like literally, one for I
Speaker 2: think it's about a Minecraft Earth map or something to
Speaker 2: that effect, and then another one to some famous YouTuber
Speaker 2: there was like a fan page for a famous YouTuber.
Speaker 2: And then weirdly enough, it even goes back further to
Speaker 2: another really small community of people that they had some
Speaker 2: discord server that changed names a whole bunch. It's very weird.
Speaker 2: So it appears that there was one person inside that
Speaker 2: small community that's somehow got access to these documents, but
Speaker 2: again there's no way to confirm that right now, because
Speaker 2: that initial discord server has been completely erased from the Internet.
Speaker 2: It does not exist there's no trace of it. It
Speaker 2: is gone. They're no records. The people that run Discord
Speaker 2: were just like, yeah, it's vapor now apologies. So, like,
Speaker 2: tracking down the person who posted these initially is going
Speaker 2: to be really hard. Tracking down the people who posted
Speaker 2: those documents, you know, either fourth hand, third hand, or
Speaker 2: second hand, is going to be a little easier because
Speaker 2: they're on more easily accessible forums, right, social media sites.
Speaker 2: Oh but Ben, let's talk about what the like, how
Speaker 2: the documents actually appeared, where they scanned documents, were they
Speaker 2: screen shots? Were they photographs of monitor? How do they appear?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting because the again shout out to Belly
Speaker 3: and Kat Eric Tohler especially, they really put their Bloodhound
Speaker 3: Gang hats on and sniff this out Ledhound Gang references.
Speaker 2: Well, let's just say they totally work.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 2: Let's say the name of the article so people can
Speaker 2: find it. It's titled from Discord to four Chan colon
Speaker 2: the Improbable Journey of a US Intelligence leak.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the Discord server that Toller finds is wow
Speaker 3: mal spelled maow like Mao zedong. And the documents. Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm glad we're talking about this. So the documents appear
Speaker 3: to be. Some of them are pictures rather than scans,
Speaker 3: and Bellingcat builds a pretty solid argument that some of
Speaker 3: these have been messed with. The docs have been doctored.
Speaker 2: A few of them, but it appears that the doctored
Speaker 2: documents differed depending on where they were posted and for
Speaker 2: what community they were meant to be seen by.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the doctor documents differed. Well done, Yeah that's true.
Speaker 3: Can you give us an example. I think casualty numbers
Speaker 3: were one.
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, some of this information. Let's see here. According
Speaker 2: to belling Kat, one of the documents, or a few
Speaker 2: of them, appear to detail events and offer analysis of
Speaker 2: Russia's invasion of Ukraine up until March twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2: So we know these documents are fairly recently created, right
Speaker 2: to have information up to March twenty twenty three, but
Speaker 2: we know some of them were posted back in February
Speaker 2: for sure. These documents, when they were posted, initially appeared
Speaker 2: to show Ukraine's losses when it comes to like troops
Speaker 2: or personnel losses as lower, much lower than the losses
Speaker 2: that Russia had suffered, And then those numbers got flipped
Speaker 2: when it got posted again on a tele I think
Speaker 2: it was telegram where the numbers got flipped.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I believe it correct.
Speaker 2: And then it showed that Russia's losses were much lower
Speaker 2: than Ukraine's losses. And in that one, belling Cat appears
Speaker 2: to have been able to show at least or find
Speaker 2: that that version was actually doctored visually, like the numbers
Speaker 2: were altered.
Speaker 3: Curious or and curious or And I think this gets
Speaker 3: to this kind of gets to something that the three
Speaker 3: of us were talking about in our group chat, which
Speaker 3: was how much of it is legit? Is it possible
Speaker 3: that someone came in and put some smoke and mirrors
Speaker 3: in there? I mean, it definitely seems like whomever is
Speaker 3: in the chain of posting has taken pains to kind
Speaker 3: of play to their respective crowds.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But the initial documents that were found, if there
Speaker 2: were supposedly leaked, we're all according to belling Cat, photographed
Speaker 2: quote creases can be seen on the documents, with items
Speaker 2: such as a hunter's scope box and some gorilla glue
Speaker 2: visible in the background of those dated from early March
Speaker 2: and it again it appears to indicate that there were
Speaker 2: a bunch of physical documents at one location and they
Speaker 2: were all photographed at the same time, as in somebody
Speaker 2: just had the actual files, got their phone out or
Speaker 2: whatever and snapped some photographs.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, I mean that's sooo. That's rough because there's
Speaker 3: again there's a there's a limited pool of suspects here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a limited pool, but these are these are
Speaker 2: probably high level suspects, right, and somebody who has access
Speaker 2: to way more classified information and other documents than what
Speaker 2: is represented here, probably right.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: It also makes you wonder about the earlier thing that happened.
Speaker 3: In what twenty twenty one, I want to say, the
Speaker 3: CIA talked about how they were losing a lot of
Speaker 3: agents or operators or tourists, whatever you want to call them.
Speaker 3: They were losing them because there was some sort of
Speaker 3: leak in the system. And then the message about the
Speaker 3: CIA's oh snap moment came through a top secret cable
Speaker 3: that was also leaked. Yes, so the call is coming
Speaker 3: from inside the house, it seems, unless this is asymmetrical warfare.
Speaker 3: I mean, there are a lot of questions right now,
Speaker 3: and I would certainly hate to be on the diplomatic
Speaker 3: staff or I would hate to be in the you know,
Speaker 3: like joint chiefs staff at this time, because the staff
Speaker 3: is who they're going to look at first, right and right.
Speaker 2: Of course, everybody's going to get grilled and analyzed as
Speaker 2: hard as they have to be. And it's again it's
Speaker 2: because of the ripple effect of these documents and what
Speaker 2: they contain. If you look to the Guardian reporting on
Speaker 2: April eleventh, yesterday as we're recording this, there's an article
Speaker 2: you should read called Pentagon Leaks. US seeks to men
Speaker 2: tize after claims Washington spied on key allies. Washington and
Speaker 2: the Pentagon are they are literally scrambled, scrambling specifically with
Speaker 2: as you said, Ben mentioned South Korea and Israel right now,
Speaker 2: because there's some messed up stuff. You know, if these
Speaker 2: documents are real, the contents are, it's just not it's
Speaker 2: not very nice. It's like finding out, ah, bro, you
Speaker 2: were spying on me. But I was like giving you
Speaker 2: my information and they're like, but how did my information
Speaker 2: get leaked because I'm sharing it with you? Wait, maybe
Speaker 2: I shouldn't share intelligence with you anymore. Basically, this is
Speaker 2: what those two major countries are thinking.
Speaker 3: Oh, North Korea is not answering the phone, by the way, well,
Speaker 3: they haven't they have it for about a week now,
Speaker 3: as we record on April twelfth. Is that related tough
Speaker 3: to say? A lot of a lot of moving parts?
Speaker 3: You know, you think three card Monty on a street
Speaker 3: corner is tough. This is This is one hundred and
Speaker 3: ninety three card monte And that's just counting the UN countries.
Speaker 4: Zice.
Speaker 3: The idea that Egypt might be tempting to supply Russia,
Speaker 3: which are great cool, the Middle East is apparently too chill.
Speaker 3: We need a little something to spice things up this Yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't know. But to the WikiLeaks thing, do you
Speaker 3: think there's gonna be substantive fallout that will register with
Speaker 3: the Western public.
Speaker 2: It's tough to say. Over the year's been when we
Speaker 2: and Noel, when we've seen these leaks, I can't tell
Speaker 2: you any major effects they have had that we have
Speaker 2: been able to observe. When it comes to diplomatic relations.
Speaker 4: It's just an embarrassment, right, I mean, it's really just
Speaker 4: kind of like a oops are bad. I mean, it
Speaker 4: just doesn't make doesn't really instill confidence. You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess what I'm saying. As a member of
Speaker 2: the public, we're not privy to some of the things
Speaker 2: that this would actually change, right, what the posture actually
Speaker 2: looks like in smaller meetings, and what major decisions are
Speaker 2: either pushed off or altered significantly because of these leaks,
Speaker 2: Like we're never going to see that, we'll never know
Speaker 2: about that stuff because it's going to get stamped classified
Speaker 2: top secret or no foreign or whatever. It does feel
Speaker 2: like this comes at a really bad time for the US.
Speaker 2: And I was just mentioning before we started recording, guys,
Speaker 2: there's an AP article that came out way back in March,
Speaker 2: in March twenty third, kind of around the same time
Speaker 2: that these things were getting leaked and posted. The title
Speaker 2: of that article is Pentagon budget ready's US for possible
Speaker 2: China confrontation, which when the Associated Press is putting out
Speaker 2: that kind of messaging, right, and then you look at
Speaker 2: the Defense Department's proposed budget of eight hundred and forty
Speaker 2: two billion dollars, which they're saying, we need that money
Speaker 2: to prepare for literally war, to prepare for war, and
Speaker 2: then this kind of leaking of CEA or documents comes out.
Speaker 2: It makes you wonder if it's not related. Uh, somebody
Speaker 2: saying yeah, the timing that is basically someone saying, hey,
Speaker 2: guess what, We're already in your house. As you said, Ben,
Speaker 2: good luck with that budget.
Speaker 3: Looking nasty too, because one dirty part of the leaks
Speaker 3: that usually doesn't happen in public is intelligence agencies snitching
Speaker 3: on each other. So there's a CIA statement that is
Speaker 3: in the Guardian article you mentioned about how they accuse
Speaker 3: Masade of low key telling Massad agents to participate in
Speaker 3: domestic protests in Israel.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when the when the big what was it? It
Speaker 2: was there's it was a huge deal, right, And they're
Speaker 2: accusing Masade of basically rallying the public to say budget government.
Speaker 3: The current government. Yeah, the government in that country is
Speaker 3: increasingly divided. But there's there's a lot of stuff. You know,
Speaker 3: this is this feels like it could be an episode.
Speaker 3: I'm just wondering if the American public is going to
Speaker 3: pay attention.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Ben, there's a lot to cover here. I
Speaker 2: think it's worth an episode, and actually it's worth waiting
Speaker 2: a little longer to see what else happens, because it
Speaker 2: does feel pretty raw still, even on April twelfth, as
Speaker 2: we record this, guys, hold on, we have to hold
Speaker 2: that thought. We are coming to you from our future
Speaker 2: in this episode, but your past. It's kind of weird.
Speaker 2: We just found out that someone has been arrested in
Speaker 2: connection with these leaks.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jack Tech Sierra, twenty one year old member of
Speaker 3: the Massachusetts Air National Guard.
Speaker 2: Yes, you can see video of him being taken in.
Speaker 2: And he appears to be the person that Bellingcat was
Speaker 2: writing about, the person that was originally posting documents on
Speaker 2: those early early discord servers. We don't have all of
Speaker 2: the information yet. Things are still developing. We're going to
Speaker 2: keep our eyes and ears to the ground, but for
Speaker 2: now we're gonna go ahead and break and hear a
Speaker 2: word from our sponsor. Will be right back with more
Speaker 2: strange news.
Speaker 4: And we've returned with one more piece of strange news.
Speaker 4: It's been a minute since we've had the pleasure of
Speaker 4: talking about mister mister Yey formerly known as Kanye, formerly
Speaker 4: known as Kanye West. It wasn't it wasn't there Perer
Speaker 4: where he was just Kanye. I don't know, it doesn't matter,
Speaker 4: you know, we we don't have to relitigate the whole
Speaker 4: thing here. But the guy's had some issues with some
Speaker 4: public awfulness in terms of, you know, some pretty rough
Speaker 4: ideological views surrounding his opinion on Jewish people, people of
Speaker 4: the Jewish Jewish faith, and identifying with folks that some
Speaker 4: might consider, you know, Nazis and all of that. We're
Speaker 4: not gonna talk about any of that today. You may
Speaker 4: recall somewhere in that whirlwind firestorm of public kind of
Speaker 4: fall from Grace stuff that was happening with Ya, that
Speaker 4: there was mentioned that he was starting a school. Do
Speaker 4: you guys remember this?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, I can't remember. We were talking about
Speaker 3: this off area. I can't remember if we mentioned it
Speaker 3: on air, but he had he wanted to create a
Speaker 3: private school, I think, based on his his understanding of
Speaker 3: what could be improvements in the US education system very diplomatically.
Speaker 4: Put right, diplomatically put indeed, and you know he founded
Speaker 4: this school called Donda Academy, named after his beloved mother,
Speaker 4: which also you know, he named his last record after.
Speaker 4: I'm not quite sure if he's finished that one. Yeah,
Speaker 4: he's definitely put it out, but I wonder if the
Speaker 4: tracks keep changing. It's interestingly, you know, I'm fascinated by
Speaker 4: the guy on an artistic level, Like he definitely is
Speaker 4: like a modern artist, like in that he he doesn't
Speaker 4: care about like oh, I'm gonna change. It's a living document.
Speaker 4: You know, he's definitely had some interesting forethinking ideas about
Speaker 4: music and culture. And you know, whether you like his
Speaker 4: fashion or not, he definitely has a as a viewpoint,
Speaker 4: let's just say. And then you know, he kind of
Speaker 4: spun on a control of the viewpoints, started to encompass
Speaker 4: things that were just just not okay. Donda Academy. It
Speaker 4: sounds to me from a lot of the press he
Speaker 4: did where he talked about this, it's kind of the
Speaker 4: primary goal is to have like a really like like
Speaker 4: a winning high school basketball team, and to reverse engineer
Speaker 4: that scenario, he decided he needed to make a school.
Speaker 4: And if you go to our website, it's pretty fascinating.
Speaker 4: It's Donda dot Org. It's kind of great. There's like
Speaker 4: an animated image of a dove like flying off into
Speaker 4: the sky and a kind of backlit foresty kind of
Speaker 4: textured background and just as Donda Academy who And then
Speaker 4: there's there's four legs, Who we are, how we learn?
Speaker 4: Admissions and choir is pretty important there. Let's see. It
Speaker 4: says they have a ten to one student teacher ratio,
Speaker 4: less than twelve students per class pre K through twelfth
Speaker 4: grade Donda Rule number fifty one. It says here students
Speaker 4: must be confident in forming ideas. If not, their writing
Speaker 4: will suffer. But by the way, you may have also
Speaker 4: remembered that Kanye came out pretty clearly against books. So
Speaker 4: it's interesting to think about, you know, a school with
Speaker 4: no but maybe that's maybe that's the school of the future.
Speaker 4: That's neither here nor there. But we've got some updates
Speaker 4: a couple of the you know, there was very precious
Speaker 4: little information out there outside of this kind of relatively
Speaker 4: cryptic website. Now we have more information in the way
Speaker 4: that Americans tend to get our information through lawsuits. That's
Speaker 4: when the stuff comes out, the juicy stuff. And yeah,
Speaker 4: the Donda Academy is being sued by two former employees,
Speaker 4: Cecilia Hailey and Chikari Buyers. They were teachers at the
Speaker 4: school and they apparently reported to whatever administration existed at
Speaker 4: Downda Academy numerous violations of things based on their experience
Speaker 4: that they would consider to be questionable, if not outright illegal.
Speaker 4: Apparently there's no janitorial staff. Through a number of kind
Speaker 4: of mandates handed down by YEA himself. Certain cleaning products
Speaker 4: were not allowed, only acid and water. I believe it was.
Speaker 4: It's it's some kind of very you know, basic cleaning,
Speaker 4: like like almost like it's not what it was. It's acid,
Speaker 4: is what I read. And I'm not sure. Maybe yeah,
Speaker 4: maybe so an acid that that would probably be like
Speaker 4: the most lo fi holistic way of cleaning without any products.
Speaker 4: And then that so so problem A, you know, not
Speaker 4: particularly clean. Problem B is the students were being underfed,
Speaker 4: if by sushi, because that's the only thing that they
Speaker 4: have at Donda Academy. It's you're absolutely right, then it's
Speaker 4: a selling point if you know, you got to bring
Speaker 4: you got to use utensils. You know, everyone's good at chopsticks.
Speaker 4: Utensils also banned eating utensils Sushi with your hand, Well
Speaker 4: you can, I guess. I mean that's certainly. I think
Speaker 4: what I guess the roles is in the traditional way
Speaker 4: to eat sushi with your hand.
Speaker 3: I think so traditionally sushi is a finger food.
Speaker 4: That's right, that's right, it's fine, and the point being
Speaker 4: no no utensils, potentially dirty situations, one meal a day,
Speaker 4: no custodial staff. In addition to those things that were banned,
Speaker 4: like cleaning products, things like crossword puzzles not allowed at
Speaker 4: Donda Academy, coloring sheets, jewelry art on the wall, which
Speaker 4: is interesting considering the you know, he's all about inspiring
Speaker 4: you know, artists and all of that. And no chairs either,
Speaker 4: and here's the kicker, no Nike or Adidas emblems of
Speaker 4: any kind, products of any kind. The students are dressed
Speaker 4: and kind of like a grayish black sort of sweatsuit
Speaker 4: that's sort of like issued to them. You know, you
Speaker 4: think of you know, school, private schools and such having
Speaker 4: uniforms issued, and you kind of have an image in
Speaker 4: your mind what that is. These feel a little more
Speaker 4: like prison uniforms kind of in there, you know, sort
Speaker 4: of I don't know, that's sort of his post apocalyptic
Speaker 4: vibe has always been Kanye's kind of fashion sets for
Speaker 4: his fashion line, so all this stuff kind of falls
Speaker 4: in line with that. But yeah, Haleian buyers brought these concerns,
Speaker 4: just a few of which we were talking about to
Speaker 4: the principal, Moira Love and they who also these two
Speaker 4: women were apparently the only black women teaching at the school,
Speaker 4: and they were met with resistance, say the very least,
Speaker 4: and they were referred to as being according to them,
Speaker 4: allegedly buy more of Love, who presumably is white. I'm
Speaker 4: not I'm not quite sure about that part, but she
Speaker 4: wasn't a teacher. But it did say in the cut article,
Speaker 4: by the way, which cited sources, cited several reputable sources,
Speaker 4: that they were the only black women teaching at the school,
Speaker 4: and they were called aggressive, and then they reported that
Speaker 4: they felt that that language was charged and in some
Speaker 4: way and you know, indicative of a stereotypical maybe kind
Speaker 4: of put down of black women, kind of you know,
Speaker 4: the idea of like speaking out of school or something
Speaker 4: like that literally in school. And they were fired and
Speaker 4: they feel that they were unfairly fired. And now that
Speaker 4: all of this stuff is coming out, and no word
Speaker 4: on how good the basketball team is or the park
Speaker 4: four team, because yeah, that parkourp was definitely a listed activity.
Speaker 4: Have you guys heard any more about this? But am
Speaker 4: I missing it? I just this is mainly it's just odd,
Speaker 4: and I know we've we've certainly discussed the fact that
Speaker 4: Kanye yeah is as a person that's suffering very publicly
Speaker 4: from some you know, mental health issues, and it's a
Speaker 4: comment kind of on how we allow celebrity to kind
Speaker 4: of be the driving force even if it's against someone's own,
Speaker 4: you know, best interest. You know, people who are surround
Speaker 4: with that level of money or surrounded by people whose
Speaker 4: job it is to stay employed, stay in that person's employment.
Speaker 4: So I don't know what do you what stands out
Speaker 4: to y'all here?
Speaker 2: How much does it cost?
Speaker 4: Unclear? By the way, did did forget to mention the
Speaker 4: fact that it's unaccredited and it's clean? It's unclear on
Speaker 4: that either. I know. I think it is still operating.
Speaker 3: As of October twenty seven, twenty twenty two. Did the
Speaker 3: principle right that Donda was closing down with plans to
Speaker 3: reopen in September?
Speaker 2: But this they wrote? But then they right after no, no,
Speaker 2: just joking, and then they opened back up.
Speaker 4: I could, Okay, maybe you know what then I will
Speaker 4: defer to you on that that wasn't Let's see.
Speaker 2: That's at least according to the Cut article.
Speaker 4: So the Cut article says that it's closed.
Speaker 2: No Cut article says they announced that it was going
Speaker 2: to close and begin twenty twenty three hours later, the
Speaker 2: Academy reportedly sent a follow up announcing the school be
Speaker 2: opening again later that week, and it's been writing since then.
Speaker 3: That's what I thought, and it did. It did claim
Speaker 3: to close for a while, and that was unclear about
Speaker 3: how this would how this would all play out. It
Speaker 3: seems like there's a lot of confusion I think around
Speaker 3: some of the basics of Donda, at least in the
Speaker 3: mind of the public now the staff themselves, like the
Speaker 3: principal Jason angele Angel, I want to say.
Speaker 4: No, the principle was I had read that the principle
Speaker 4: was that love person.
Speaker 3: I think they maybe they had changed principles. I mean,
Speaker 3: I know in uh.
Speaker 4: Twenty two year right, yep, that's right, that makes perfect sense.
Speaker 3: So maybe they're shuffling some people around as well. And
Speaker 3: I don't want to sound like an apologist just because
Speaker 3: I'm a fan of a lot of Yay music. You
Speaker 3: did a lot for hip hop. But when I was
Speaker 3: first learning about this academy, I have to say I thought, one,
Speaker 3: it's probably not gonna work. We'll see if it's if
Speaker 3: it sticks through the coming years. That I thought too,
Speaker 3: some of these things sound kind of awesome. If I
Speaker 3: was a kid, I would love to have a parkour class,
Speaker 3: you know, what I mean, I'd love to eat sushi.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but if the school isn't accredited.
Speaker 3: Right then, how what does that mean for the kid's future? Right?
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, we've seen things like that with other schools
Speaker 4: and colleges losing their accreditation and stuff like that, and
Speaker 4: you know, and that matters. But by the way, this
Speaker 4: is also another opportunity to talk about teachers and the
Speaker 4: plight of teachers, you know, where It's like, it seems
Speaker 4: like these women maybe saw this as a chance to
Speaker 4: help out in the situation that they maybe already saw
Speaker 4: as a little tenuous we don't know them motivations. But
Speaker 4: apparently in California because of the way the law is written,
Speaker 4: even private school there's so many private schools that like,
Speaker 4: private school teachers don't like necessarily make more than public
Speaker 4: school teachers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, So, I.
Speaker 4: Mean it seems as though educators are being at the
Speaker 4: very least ignored, the very most utterly taken advantage of,
Speaker 4: you know, in this situation, which, as we don't think
Speaker 4: is cool.
Speaker 3: No, and I mean, as ever, you know this this
Speaker 3: is addressing some known problems in the US education system,
Speaker 3: or it's coming about as a result of those like
Speaker 3: everyone can agree. There are lots of what could be
Speaker 3: diplomatically called areas of opportunity right for public education, and
Speaker 3: there are certain powerful forces that want to shut down
Speaker 3: the right to public education because it makes the masses
Speaker 3: more docile if they're uneducated, right, or more malleable. One
Speaker 3: could say, but this, I don't know. We have never
Speaker 3: attended Dondae Academy that we know of, right, maybe in
Speaker 3: the place, but we also I had heard all that
Speaker 3: it was it at least moved around locations or had
Speaker 3: new like it's trying to find a forever home.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: There are a lot of questions. And when you when
Speaker 3: you think about the teachers and the kids. I love
Speaker 3: that you're pointing out that just teaching at a private
Speaker 3: school does not necessarily mean that you are being treated
Speaker 3: better or you are being compensated fairly. It's it's a
Speaker 3: whole bag of badgers, men and every badger, and there
Speaker 3: is an a pleasant thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I completely agree, and something to keep an eye on,
Speaker 4: you know. I don't know if it's just maybe I said,
Speaker 4: we're going to talk about it, but we did see
Speaker 4: the Kanye West is now okay with Jewish people because
Speaker 4: of Jonah Hill's performance in twenty one Jump Street right.
Speaker 3: And Jonah Hill, another celebrity, responded, I think pretty diplomatically.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I didn't catch that one, but that's the only way.
Speaker 4: How else could you respond to that. It's like, I mean,
Speaker 4: it's even I don't know that even that comment seems
Speaker 4: very dismissive and like, what what does that have to
Speaker 4: do with anything positive news?
Speaker 3: So I saw an article that came out just a
Speaker 3: few days ago. I want to say, yeah, in April.
Speaker 3: I'm pulling this from Shannon Dawson over at News one
Speaker 3: that says they were going to seek accreditation. So they're
Speaker 3: unaccredited now, but it looks like according to this article
Speaker 3: and according to the Rolling Stone, they're applied for accredited
Speaker 3: accreditation with the Western Association of Schools and Colleges by
Speaker 3: spring twenty twenty three. I mean, that's a good thing.
Speaker 3: But I'm glad you're pointing that out because the accreditation
Speaker 3: is a huge, huge deal.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it definitely is. I don't know how much to add,
Speaker 4: you know, I hate to kind of beat a dead
Speaker 4: horse on this in only line. In a lot of ways,
Speaker 4: like we said, it really is just an example of
Speaker 4: and I also don't want to be dismissive and say
Speaker 4: to try to like, you know, psychoanalyze you know, yay
Speaker 4: here on the podcast. But it does seem like another
Speaker 4: example of this shouldn't have happened. This is school. It's
Speaker 4: not like some vanity project. It shouldn't be anyway. And
Speaker 4: I mean again, not that like we don't have an absurd,
Speaker 4: insurmountable level of problems with the public school system, with
Speaker 4: schooling in America in general. But you know, this just
Speaker 4: seems odd and unfortunate, and hopefully no kids have any
Speaker 4: ill outcomes, you know, from being involved in this.
Speaker 3: And maybe, you know, maybe we can hear from someone
Speaker 3: who is associated with Donda Academy, which had a secret
Speaker 3: location for a while. Maybe we can hear from some
Speaker 3: students or their parents. You know, we would I think
Speaker 3: we'd all love to hear some firsthand experience because again,
Speaker 3: you know, there's a there's a lot of confusion about
Speaker 3: this in the public and as you said, and no,
Speaker 3: teachers are important, mission critical right to the future of
Speaker 3: not only individuals, but the futures of the countries and
Speaker 3: communities in which they in which they practice their craft,
Speaker 3: and we want to hear you know, if you trust
Speaker 3: your Ferbie and we want to we want we want
Speaker 3: to know why you leak to those documents.
Speaker 2: Bro Yes, seriously. And also what would your academy requirements be, like,
Speaker 2: what would your outfit look like at your academy?
Speaker 3: What's something you think could fix the US education system? Right,
Speaker 3: Because one of the most successful musicians in the current
Speaker 3: era of Western music seems to have given it a go, right,
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people will have some answers,
Speaker 3: you know, Noel madd be really interesting too to see
Speaker 3: how many commonalities we find among our fellow conspiracy realists,
Speaker 3: as long as we assume it's not secretly chat GPT
Speaker 3: writing to us.
Speaker 4: God, I hope not that furby stuff.
Speaker 5: Man.
Speaker 4: That's kinda like I said, I do think it's all fascinating,
Speaker 4: Like as someone who's a fan of you know, generative music,
Speaker 4: and we're all giant tech nerds, and I think there's
Speaker 4: a part of us that's fascinated by all this AI
Speaker 4: stuff in the way it can be used to generate
Speaker 4: like art or to help, you know, not help, but
Speaker 4: like be another tool in the toolbox, you know. And
Speaker 4: I think that video is an interesting example of that.
Speaker 4: Maybe not art. I mean, it was really kind of
Speaker 4: more of a gag. But some of the stuff you
Speaker 4: can't help but see the robot overlords pounding down your door.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and until they do it, probably hopefully even a
Speaker 3: while after that, we are going to be coming to
Speaker 3: you with more strange news, more listener mail, more episodes
Speaker 3: about all the stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 3: We want you to be part of the show, so
Speaker 3: please joined us online. We're all over the place, even
Speaker 3: TikTok before that gets banned.
Speaker 2: Yes, hang out with us on the socials. On YouTube.
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