Speaker 1: Welcome, fellow conspiracy realist to our classic episode for today.
Speaker 1: Just a quick heads up, this episode does contain descriptions
Speaker 1: of abuse, descriptions of manipulation and cover ups. As such,
Speaker 1: it may not be appropriate for all listeners, but we
Speaker 1: believe this story is important. Matt. You remember several years
Speaker 1: back when we recorded this we talked not just about
Speaker 1: the predator Harvey Weinstein, we also talked about the systemic
Speaker 1: cover ups of abuse in Hollywood.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a wide ranging discussion about what it
Speaker 2: used to take to make it in Hollywood and the
Speaker 2: system that was in place there of abuse. Some of
Speaker 2: the folks, not everybody, but some of the folks at
Speaker 2: the top of these major organizations knew that they had
Speaker 2: the power and they used it in really nefarious, messed
Speaker 2: up ways.
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, this system continues in many ways today, which
Speaker 1: is part of the reason we are airing this classic episode.
Speaker 1: We would love to hear your thoughts.
Speaker 3: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 3: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 3: learn this stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
Speaker 2: My name is Noah.
Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are with our super producer
Speaker 1: Paul Dekkins. You are you and that makes this stuff.
Speaker 1: They don't want you to know. Today's episode will just
Speaker 1: cut straight to the chase. Is about an epidemic in
Speaker 1: Hollywood that has existed for a very very long time,
Speaker 1: longer than anyone listening to the show today has been
Speaker 1: alive unless they are more than a century old. We're
Speaker 1: talking about the epidemic of sexual abuse in Hollywood, as
Speaker 1: well as the long running, active conspiracy to aid and
Speaker 1: a bet the perpetrators of these crimes while punishing, suppressing, blackballing,
Speaker 1: and dismissing their victims.
Speaker 4: And that's the kicker here. This is the very definition
Speaker 4: of a conspiracy. It's something that's been swept under the rug,
Speaker 4: whether actively or just through inaction, for decades.
Speaker 2: And because there are powerful people involved who have connections
Speaker 2: in places that would be important to have if you
Speaker 2: were going to create a conspiracy such as this.
Speaker 4: And I just want to say that for me personally,
Speaker 4: and I think you guys would probably agree, is I
Speaker 4: just want to be an ally to the folks that
Speaker 4: have experienced this kind of abuse and discuss it in
Speaker 4: as matter of fact a way as possible and put
Speaker 4: this information out there for folks that maybe don't know
Speaker 4: the depths of it. But we are going to get
Speaker 4: into some descriptions of behavior that is both aberrant and
Speaker 4: possibly triggering.
Speaker 5: So just warning you right now.
Speaker 1: Agreed and well said, we want to caution all listeners
Speaker 1: that this episode does contain reports of abuse and may
Speaker 1: not be suitable for all audiences. Additionally, we have, over
Speaker 1: the lifetime of this show, we have we have covered
Speaker 1: things that may sound you know, silly or reverent, but
Speaker 1: we consider this a moral imperative on our part. And uh,
Speaker 1: it's no secret that Hollywood is by and large often
Speaker 1: seen as a sleazy place.
Speaker 5: And although we always.
Speaker 1: Want to avoid painting things with an overly broad brush,
Speaker 1: Tinseltown has to a degree earned this reputation, a large degree.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's this thing you may have heard of called
Speaker 2: the casting couch, and this is a tactic that's been
Speaker 2: around for the past century. It's it's the practice where
Speaker 2: a pretty user or director, or someone who is high
Speaker 2: up in the industry, in the movie industry in particular,
Speaker 2: will demand or perhaps even hint at, sexual favors in
Speaker 2: exchange for a role in a film or for even
Speaker 2: a TV commercial or anything really, and they will try
Speaker 2: and get these favors from aspiring actors. That's probably the
Speaker 2: most vulnerable people who are hungry and getting into the industry,
Speaker 2: as well as established, well known actors who are trying
Speaker 2: to reignite their career or something or.
Speaker 5: Even just go to the next level, you know, in
Speaker 5: their career. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and not just actors, of course, we're also talking
Speaker 1: about members of production crews. We're talking about anyone that
Speaker 1: could be involved in this industry.
Speaker 4: And that casting cast situation is so insidious because it
Speaker 4: almost it doesn't require implicit requesting of a sexual act
Speaker 4: It doesn't you know, have to come out.
Speaker 5: And say it.
Speaker 4: It's a lot out of it is implied with subtext,
Speaker 4: and there is this underlying sense that if I don't
Speaker 4: do this in one way or another, I am not
Speaker 4: going to get this job, or I am going to
Speaker 4: be mistreated in some way or blacklisted.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that real fear of being blacklisted is something that's
Speaker 2: that we're going to see play out throughout the story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's a very rational fear because it does happen.
Speaker 1: It is most terrifyingly happening to people. As we sit
Speaker 1: in the studio today. It's often said that some people
Speaker 1: will do almost anything in the pursuit of fame and
Speaker 1: or power. But it's also true that people who acquire
Speaker 1: massive amounts of fame and power often have very little
Speaker 1: oversight regarding how they choose to wield it.
Speaker 2: We have an example here from one of the strongest
Speaker 2: voices I think in dealing with this subject, Amber Tamlin.
Speaker 2: She wrote in The New York Times on September sixteenth,
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen. She says, for women in America who come
Speaker 2: forward with stories of harassment, abuse, and sexual assault, there
Speaker 2: are not two sides to every story. However noble that
Speaker 2: principle might seem. Women do not get to have a side.
Speaker 2: They get to have an interrogation. Too often they are
Speaker 2: questioned mercilessly about whether their side is legitimate, especially if
Speaker 2: that side happens to accuse a man of stature. Then
Speaker 2: that woman has to consider the scrutiny and repercussions she'll
Speaker 2: be subjected to by sharing her side.
Speaker 1: And of course we would be remiss if we did
Speaker 1: not establish that this is not something that is solely
Speaker 1: limited to women.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, but very much the majority of people experiencing this.
Speaker 4: Are women, and that power dynamic that we're talking about
Speaker 4: is has a legacy, you know, I mean of these
Speaker 4: you think about these executives, these powerful male, kind of
Speaker 4: dominating figures that own the town, and that has just
Speaker 4: been perpetuated over time.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and abusers, depending upon their position, were historically protected
Speaker 1: and currently protected by powerful interests who often worked not
Speaker 1: only to keep the story out of the press, but
Speaker 1: also to keep these criminals out of jails where they
Speaker 1: inarguably belonged. The situation appeared to change, or begin to
Speaker 1: change over the course of twenty seventeen. Prominent performers and
Speaker 1: executives who were once protected by this invisible system of
Speaker 1: power and influence found their victims speaking out, fighting back,
Speaker 1: and the crimes of these formerly untouchable individual's surface without
Speaker 1: suppression into the public sphere. Today, we're exploring this phenomenon
Speaker 1: to see how what was once most definitely the stuff
Speaker 1: Hollywood doesn't want you to know, has finally gained mainstream
Speaker 1: recognition as the dire epidemic that it is. And along
Speaker 1: the way, we'll investigate several specific cases.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to look at names like Harvey Weinstein,
Speaker 2: which kind of kicked off this whole thing Bill Cosby,
Speaker 2: which was even before that, that kind of maybe led
Speaker 2: to that breaking point.
Speaker 4: It's interesting that Bill Cosby sort of felt like his
Speaker 4: own case where it was, you know, this very wholesome
Speaker 4: seeming man had done all of these horrible things behind
Speaker 4: closed doors. But Weinstein really cracked it open because he
Speaker 4: represents something else that had It's I don't know Cosby too.
Speaker 5: I mean, he was a producer.
Speaker 4: He abused many people that were seeking to work with
Speaker 4: him and for him. But for some reason, when the
Speaker 4: Weinstein revelations came about, everyone started coming forward.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it represented the larger structure of Hollywood, and it's
Speaker 2: not that much different with Louis c. K He's another person.
Speaker 2: We're going to look at a producer and director and
Speaker 2: somebody who has a lot of control, and we're going
Speaker 2: to look at a lot more people as well. And
Speaker 2: we're also going to briefly touch on the historical allegations
Speaker 2: which were again for decades somewhat ignored by the mainstream
Speaker 2: press and at least a lot of times kept out
Speaker 2: of the court system.
Speaker 1: I would say even worse than a crime of negligence
Speaker 1: or neglect on the part of the press is the
Speaker 1: crime of active attacking. And we'll end on some questions
Speaker 1: as well, not just who knew what and when, and
Speaker 1: not just what Hollywood as a whole will do in
Speaker 1: support of the victims, both unknown and known, but will
Speaker 1: also ask what happens next, Will anything actually permanently significantly change?
Speaker 1: And here are the facts. As we record this episode,
Speaker 1: over thirty prominent men from various entertainment industries have been
Speaker 1: accused of sexual misconduct, harassment, assault, and rape. We have
Speaker 1: specific examples from Hollywood, and perhaps we should start with
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein.
Speaker 2: The allegations against Harvey Weinstein date back decades. There are
Speaker 2: early reports We're talking very early, all the way back
Speaker 2: to the nineteen seventies, and they kind of continued bit
Speaker 2: by bit throughout the years. Then in October of twenty seventeen,
Speaker 2: the New York Times published allegations of sexual harassment and
Speaker 2: assault against this gentleman. And currently, as we are recording
Speaker 2: this episode, they're around thirty prominent actors and over eighty
Speaker 2: women in total who have come forward with reports of
Speaker 2: abuse or attempted abuse at least by Harvey Weinstein.
Speaker 4: And Weinstein and his brother Bob made names for themselves
Speaker 4: as head of the Weinstein Company, and I believe they
Speaker 4: also own Mirramaxy, And you know, they kind of were
Speaker 4: an important force in mainstreaming indie film.
Speaker 2: And I guess you could say, like talking about everything
Speaker 2: from Kill Bill and going back in with Tarantino movies,
Speaker 2: you're talking about big ones, Lord of the Rings franchise.
Speaker 1: Or magnificent works of art like freeda which Weinstein fought
Speaker 1: to suppress and then gladly took credit for when it
Speaker 1: won numerous awards.
Speaker 2: Look at their top movies. You're looking at some of
Speaker 2: the highest grossing movies around.
Speaker 1: It's a gold standard. In some cases, during these allegations,
Speaker 1: Weinstein's legal team spent great amounts of money to reach
Speaker 1: confidential settlements with the victims. In each case, the legal
Speaker 1: team was careful to include some kind of clause or
Speaker 1: language arguing something along the lines of this is not
Speaker 1: an admission of guilt, but that's a statement that rings
Speaker 1: false and consideration of the just the sheer amount of
Speaker 1: money and estimated to be involved here.
Speaker 2: And you know they also he used spies to infiltrate
Speaker 2: some of these groups to get information out of certain
Speaker 2: women that were accusing him of things. It goes really
Speaker 2: deep and pis and you think about the conspiratorial aspect
Speaker 2: of all that fighting back against people who are going
Speaker 2: to speak truth to power.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and lately there have been some new allegations that
Speaker 4: have come up with the director Terry Weygoff, who made
Speaker 4: one of my favorite documentaries of all time. Crumb also
Speaker 4: did the Bad Santa movie, which was interesting, but apparently
Speaker 4: in conversations with Weinstein, anytime he would mention interest in
Speaker 4: the actress Mira Sorvino, he would get a click, he
Speaker 4: would get hung up on, and that had surfaced in
Speaker 4: another allegation from Peter Jackson involving Mira Sorvino, saying that
Speaker 4: anytime her name came up, there was just active aggression
Speaker 4: from Harvey and his brother, and they of course denied
Speaker 4: it because that was specifically referencing the Lord of the
Speaker 4: Rings movies, which Weinstein Company initially was going to bankroll
Speaker 4: and then they lost it to new line. So the
Speaker 4: Weinstein line was we had no control overcasting because it
Speaker 4: ultimately left our hands.
Speaker 5: But then it's been.
Speaker 4: Corroborated with the terry's Wygoff allegations. So there are a
Speaker 4: lot of levers. A man like that can pull to
Speaker 4: keep things, keep people hushed up about this kind of stuff,
Speaker 4: whether it's the victim themselves or anyone else in the
Speaker 4: industry that knows. And back to the casting couch thing,
Speaker 4: the reason a lot of this is so insidious is
Speaker 4: you don't have to be told to shut up.
Speaker 5: You just know. There's this culture.
Speaker 4: That pervades this you know town that's based around this
Speaker 4: particular industry where if you don't see someone that's really
Speaker 4: being brave and setting an example coming forward at great
Speaker 4: cost to themselves like we're seeing now, chances are you're
Speaker 4: going to be terrified into submission and just you know,
Speaker 4: fear for your livelihood.
Speaker 1: And that specific case with Mirror Cervino has been corroborated,
Speaker 1: as you said. In addition, there's Rose McGowan in his
Speaker 1: career was also cut short. Weinstein, like many other serial criminals,
Speaker 1: had an mo O motus operandi, yes, a mode of
Speaker 1: operation that his typically involved deception. For example, inviting an
Speaker 1: actor or a colleague to quote unquote business meeting, only
Speaker 1: to later change the location, insists they hold the meeting
Speaker 1: at night in a hotel bar or in his office
Speaker 1: in his hotel and then he would often be coming
Speaker 1: out of the bathroom in a robe. He would outrighte
Speaker 1: pressure them for sexual activity in exchange for casting consideration.
Speaker 1: And we have a specific example of Harvey Weinstein's behavior
Speaker 1: from before the scandal broke yes.
Speaker 2: This one comes from twenty fifteen, two years ago, a
Speaker 2: twenty two year old woman accused Weinstein of touching her
Speaker 2: inappropriately during an evening meeting at his Tribeca Film Center offices,
Speaker 2: and it comes from the New York Times. So the
Speaker 2: New York Times did write about this. They had two stories.
Speaker 2: The first one was the allegation of groping and the
Speaker 2: second one was this one. It says the woman told
Speaker 2: investigators that Weinstein touched her inappropriately after telling her that
Speaker 2: it was important for casting agents to know whether her
Speaker 2: breasts were real. So just that's insidious already. She contacted
Speaker 2: the police after the meeting, and at the direction of
Speaker 2: the detectives, placed another call to Weinstein. They recorded that
Speaker 2: one uh and then during this call, Weinstein actually acknowledged
Speaker 2: that this episode had occurred. And then they had a
Speaker 2: follow up meeting, this time at a hotel room, and
Speaker 2: she wore a wire.
Speaker 5: They recorded it have you heard that.
Speaker 2: I have not heard this take.
Speaker 5: It is shocking is not the right word.
Speaker 4: It's just the way he's so nonchalant about it, and
Speaker 4: he's so matter of fact about it. And he basically
Speaker 4: just keeps telling this woman, this model, don't embarrass me,
Speaker 4: and then come into my come into the room, let's
Speaker 4: talk about this. Come into my room. Don't embarrass me.
Speaker 4: I'm at this hotel a lot, I'm a big deal
Speaker 4: around here. And then she says, can you tell it, says,
Speaker 4: but you touched my breast, I'm not comfortable with this, YadA, YadA, YadA,
Speaker 4: And he said, look, it's it's what I'm used to.
Speaker 4: He just says it, just tosses it off like it's nothing.
Speaker 1: Chilling.
Speaker 5: Is is the is the word I was looking for.
Speaker 2: Well, in the end, I'm going to read a quote
Speaker 2: from the article. Quote, this case was taken seriously from
Speaker 2: the outset, with a thorough investigation conducted by our sex
Speaker 2: crimes unit. After analyzing the available evidence, including multiple interviews
Speaker 2: with both parties, a criminal charge is not supported. So
Speaker 2: nothing happened to Tarvey Weinstein because of this. And you know,
Speaker 2: you can get into the minutia of the law there
Speaker 2: about what constitutes sexual assault and abuse and misconduct and
Speaker 2: all of that. But it certainly seems like something very
Speaker 2: wrong occurred there and nothing happened.
Speaker 1: And this could fill an episode entirely with the exploration
Speaker 1: of Weinstein's crimes. We want to we want to paint
Speaker 1: a picture of the system at play here, because it
Speaker 1: is a systemic phenomenon. So let's move to Bill Cosby.
Speaker 1: Accusations against Cosby date to at least the nineteen sixties,
Speaker 1: meaning they span the vast majority of the seventy nine
Speaker 1: to eight eighty year old's career. He likewine seeing her again.
Speaker 1: Any other serial criminal also had anm his Numerous victims
Speaker 1: described crimes with a startling similarity. Cosby would make a
Speaker 1: drink or a beverage for the victim, slip a drug
Speaker 1: into the beverage, and then sexually assault or attempt to
Speaker 1: assault them when they lost consciousness. For example, Christina Rouley
Speaker 1: was a twenty two year old secretary at a talent
Speaker 1: agency in la in nineteen sixty five when she met Cosby.
Speaker 1: So she was a secretary, not an inspiring act or anything,
Speaker 1: and she said that she alleged that he invited her
Speaker 1: to his home, where she says she passed out after
Speaker 1: two drinks. It was foggy and I woke up in bed,
Speaker 1: she reported to Philadelphia Magazine. I found myself on the bed.
Speaker 1: He had his shirt off, he had unzipped his pants.
Speaker 1: I was just coming to Cosby did go to trial.
Speaker 1: A lot of these folks have not even gone to
Speaker 1: a trial. He went to a trial last June, and
Speaker 1: the trial lasted six days. It ended in a jury deadlock. Currently,
Speaker 1: as we record this, Bill Cosby is set to return
Speaker 1: to court for a retrial in April of twenty eighteen
Speaker 1: on three counts of felony assault. And we talked about
Speaker 1: this a little bit off air. This is a country
Speaker 1: with a rule of law. Right, so if there had
Speaker 1: not been a retrial, we would say that he had
Speaker 1: been tried.
Speaker 5: And exonerated, right.
Speaker 1: But he is still in the court system for this,
Speaker 1: and given his age, there are concerns about his lucidity, which,
Speaker 1: to be frank with you, is similar to some of
Speaker 1: the questions we have asked in previous shows about prosecuting
Speaker 1: war criminals.
Speaker 2: That's exactly what I was thinking at this point. The
Speaker 2: general is in his eighties, and you know he can't
Speaker 2: even really remember all the atrocities that he ordered way
Speaker 2: back in the day. But how do you bring something
Speaker 2: like this to justice?
Speaker 1: And does it I mean, and it doesn't negate the
Speaker 1: existence of a crime?
Speaker 2: Absolutely?
Speaker 5: And Ben, you said, how many actual official charges?
Speaker 1: This current trial in April twenty eighteen will be for
Speaker 1: three counts of felony assault.
Speaker 4: And I've read the accusers number as high as forty
Speaker 4: eight And many of these are sort of constrained by
Speaker 4: statutes of limitations that do differ state by state.
Speaker 5: But there is a.
Speaker 4: Period of time past which you cannot prosecute these crimes anymore.
Speaker 1: And for further information on that, there's an excellent article
Speaker 1: in Mother Jones that contains a map indicating the statute
Speaker 1: of limitations for rape survivors or assault survivors state by state.
Speaker 2: And it is arguable with Bill Cosby's case that it
Speaker 2: kind of opened the floodgates for more people to outwardly
Speaker 2: discuss some of this stuff. I remember when Hannibal Burris
Speaker 2: put it in a piece of his stand up and yeah,
Speaker 2: I knew nothing of any allegations against Bill Cosby at
Speaker 2: the time.
Speaker 5: Another one of those open secrets they always talk about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, years before, and one of the most powerful things
Speaker 1: this survivor can hear after surviving is that you are
Speaker 1: not alone. Absolutely so hearing somebody else speak about the
Speaker 1: same thing happening to them or a very similar thing
Speaker 1: is very powerful. And that's also what happened with another
Speaker 1: example we mentioned at the top, the comedian Louis c K.
Speaker 1: In the years preceding twenty seventeen, Louis c K became
Speaker 1: one of the most famous, well known comics in the
Speaker 1: Western world. His live shows repeatedly sold out, his stand
Speaker 1: up specials played on repeat, and households across the planet.
Speaker 1: His independently produced TV series met with critical acclaim, and
Speaker 1: he based his voice on this sort of self deprecating,
Speaker 1: cynical but ultimately honest character, one who readily confessed any
Speaker 1: number of controversial beliefs, apparently understandable yet edgy foibles and
Speaker 1: so on. However, there was a much darker side to
Speaker 1: the actual man playing this character on stage, and it
Speaker 1: was by his own admission, eventually yeah Well.
Speaker 2: For years, rumors had swirled around the industry itself, specifically
Speaker 2: the comics people who ran the show there, about Luis
Speaker 2: c K being a powerful force in that world, but
Speaker 2: also backstage when you know, when he's kind of in
Speaker 2: the dark, he was a bit of a monster. Specifically,
Speaker 2: there were female comedians comics on tour with c K
Speaker 2: who would tell the same story over and over and
Speaker 2: over that this guy who is you know, not their
Speaker 2: boss in any way on these tours, but he's definitely
Speaker 2: as the headliner, there's a position of power out there. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and he's a big name and he's a draw. They
Speaker 2: said that he would corner them either back or at
Speaker 2: a hotel after a show and would force them to
Speaker 2: watch him pleasure himself.
Speaker 1: To watch a master by.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And while this was, as we said earlier, another open
Speaker 1: secret in the world of comedy, people outside of the
Speaker 1: industry only heard reports along the lines of a victim
Speaker 1: who does not want to be named, has accused a
Speaker 1: very powerful comedian of sexual harassment or assault, but fears
Speaker 1: pursuing justice will endanger their career.
Speaker 4: And it's interesting in the same way that Hannibal Burris
Speaker 4: kind of like lit the spark that that sort of
Speaker 4: blew the Cosby thing wide open. Comedian Tig Nataro had
Speaker 4: been openly criticizing Luis c K for not getting out
Speaker 4: in front of this accusation, because he would be asked
Speaker 4: about it in interviews and say something the effect of like,
Speaker 4: I don't want to, you know, justify it with or
Speaker 4: dignify it with the response you know, it's utterly not
Speaker 4: true and if I talk about it, it'll give it
Speaker 4: life in some way. And you know, tig Who her
Speaker 4: show One Mississippi was produced by Louis c K, and
Speaker 4: she said that she was not aware of the extent
Speaker 4: of these allegations when she signed on to his production
Speaker 4: company or agreed to sold the show to Netflix. And
Speaker 4: it's interesting too because, in a similar way to something
Speaker 4: that Cosby did, Louis K would kind of joke about
Speaker 4: these kind of proclivities in his routine and in his
Speaker 4: stand up and his show, and you know, like about
Speaker 4: you know, being basically just an incorrigible horn dog. And
Speaker 4: there's even an episode of Louis where he kind.
Speaker 1: Of where well, he sort of assaults.
Speaker 4: Pamela Ablin's character, who plays kind of his you know,
Speaker 4: on and off again love interest. He pushes her against
Speaker 4: a wall and it ultimately kind of ends up. She's
Speaker 4: okay with it, but it's a little like knowing what
Speaker 4: we know now it does not play well. And that's
Speaker 4: the same for Cosby. He had a bit where he
Speaker 4: talked about how the beauty of Spanish fly, Spanish fly,
Speaker 4: this aphrodisiac that you he talks about slipping it to
Speaker 4: women and their drinks. And it's like in this very lighthearted,
Speaker 4: silly routine from his early super clean comedy days.
Speaker 1: So a lot of truth is told in just including
Speaker 1: unpleasant truth. And we have further examples after a word
Speaker 1: from our sponsor. Now we go to Kevin Spacey, the
Speaker 1: actor famous for such films as The Usual Suspects and Seven,
Speaker 1: as well as the Netflix adaptation of House of Cards.
Speaker 1: Spacey also stands accused of harassing multiple people on and offset. Again,
Speaker 1: this was a practice members of various Hollywood social circles
Speaker 1: knew about four years. The specific claim that brought this
Speaker 1: into the mainstream occurred in October of twenty seventeen, when
Speaker 1: an actor named Anthony Rapiku Spacey of sexual assault slash
Speaker 1: harassment when Spacey was twenty six and when Anthony rapp
Speaker 1: was fourteen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there have been multiple accusations against Kevin Spacey,
Speaker 2: and a lot of them have to do with young men,
Speaker 2: very young men in their early teens, and a lot
Speaker 2: of it is just so disheartening that I don't even
Speaker 2: want to talk about it, but you can find it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this also will you'll also hear director Brian
Speaker 1: Singer mentioned.
Speaker 5: In some of these cases.
Speaker 4: Brian Singer, who directed The Usual Suspects of film that
Speaker 4: made Spacey quite famous.
Speaker 1: And as of the time of this recording, more reports
Speaker 1: of Spacey of surfaced. Police in the UK are currently
Speaker 1: investigating new claims against him. And one crucial thing for
Speaker 1: us to emphasize here is that it is not just
Speaker 1: the film industry, absolutely, and it's you know, it's any
Speaker 1: industry where these sorts of inequalities of power exist. The
Speaker 1: music and entertainment mogul Russell Simmons would be one, just
Speaker 1: one example from the world of music.
Speaker 2: And then even the world of celebrity chefs who you
Speaker 2: know end up in the television industry quite often, like
Speaker 2: Mario Batali and John Besh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, television host newscasters Matt Lower, Charlie Rose and more
Speaker 1: Bill O'Reilly. There's another one.
Speaker 2: We got Morgan Spurlock and Tavis Smiley, Jeffrey Tambour, Steven Seagal,
Speaker 2: Brett Ratner, Dustin Hoffman, Jeremy Piven.
Speaker 4: There's a new one that just came out with TJ. Miller,
Speaker 4: who was, you know, yeah in Silicon Valley and he's
Speaker 4: a popular stand up. Some allegations that date back to
Speaker 4: his college days just surfaced where a woman that he
Speaker 4: was apparently dating at the time said that he choked
Speaker 4: her during sex and penetrated her with objects against her
Speaker 4: will and left.
Speaker 5: Her bruised and bloody.
Speaker 4: And you know, as he rose in prominence and all
Speaker 4: of these other allegations have started to surface. This is
Speaker 4: what we're seeing, is we're seeing people, Okay, I've been
Speaker 4: carrying this around, you know, for a long time, and
Speaker 4: I'm not going to do it anymore. And you finally
Speaker 4: like feel like you haven't out, like you're not alone,
Speaker 4: and that maybe just maybe someone will you know, take
Speaker 4: you believe you.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And in the case of Miller, I believe they were
Speaker 1: originally in a comedy group together along with the person
Speaker 1: he's currently married to.
Speaker 4: It's really heartbreaking, all of it, and it just doesn't stop.
Speaker 4: And in a way it's it's cathartic and it's a
Speaker 4: it's a good thing to finally see some come up
Speaker 4: and but it's also just so disheartening to see how
Speaker 4: much of how many of the people whose art we
Speaker 4: love and who you know, we've been entertained by over
Speaker 4: the years, are at the heart just like rotten, rotten people.
Speaker 2: It's hard to fathom being a fan of a lot
Speaker 2: of the names that we have discussed like over the year,
Speaker 2: supporting with our money, supporting with our adoration, and while
Speaker 2: this stuff is going on, it's a tough pill to swallow.
Speaker 2: But the worst thing is that there are real victims
Speaker 2: who are you know, out there and just having to
Speaker 2: deal with this in real life.
Speaker 1: Garrison Keeler, executives at MPR. The list goes on and
Speaker 1: by the time this episode reaches the air, it is
Speaker 1: more than likely that there will be more exposed criminals
Speaker 1: to add to the ranks of powerful serial sexual abusers.
Speaker 1: I mean, in short, there's one thing we know for
Speaker 1: short at this point, and that's that there are more
Speaker 1: stories will come to light, but hopefully as this system
Speaker 1: of silence begins to break down. But here's where it
Speaker 1: gets crazy. All of the dates, the names, the figures
Speaker 1: from earlier that we have just discussed are as of
Speaker 1: this recording conclusively proven, but these reports appear to be
Speaker 1: the tip of a sinister and tragic and disgusting iceberg.
Speaker 1: It's at this point virtually impossible to know for certain
Speaker 1: how many actors, crew members, other studio industry staff have
Speaker 1: also been victimized. And it's impossible to know whether all
Speaker 1: these criminals responsible for this behavior will ever receive punishment
Speaker 1: for their crimes, you know, because as we mentioned earlier,
Speaker 1: Weinstein was booted from his job. He was fired, but
Speaker 1: that's not the same as going to court.
Speaker 4: But it's also only when it becomes a good business
Speaker 4: choice do those things happen. And finally we're seeing and
Speaker 4: I think he's being very empathetic about this, but Ridley Scott,
Speaker 4: for example, had a film starring Spacey that was done
Speaker 4: and they went back into production and cut Spacey out
Speaker 4: of this movie.
Speaker 5: And I think that was.
Speaker 4: The way he tells it, it was the right thing
Speaker 4: to do, But it's also like it would have affected
Speaker 4: the grosses of the movie. So it starts to like,
Speaker 4: you see these decisions being made, all thank god, they're
Speaker 4: finally wising up in Hollywood.
Speaker 2: Are they?
Speaker 4: I mean, it just feels like, Okay, finally we have
Speaker 4: to act because it's the right business move right.
Speaker 1: Like Bob Weinstein, it is wildly implausible that he had
Speaker 1: no clue what was happening working with his brother over decades.
Speaker 4: It's like the way Tarantino came out and was like,
Speaker 4: you know, first I didn't know, and then kind of
Speaker 4: came back a little bit later saying I knew more
Speaker 4: than I let on. You know, these people were cronies.
Speaker 4: They were hanging out at parties together and villas and
Speaker 4: you know, living the high life. Going to these film
Speaker 4: film festivals. You observe this kind of behavior. You can't
Speaker 4: not know.
Speaker 1: And people are the human species. Out of all of
Speaker 1: the strange things our enhanced cognition gives us, the human
Speaker 1: species has one incredibly disturbing gift, which is the ability
Speaker 1: to rationalize why I or why an individual is doing something.
Speaker 1: People will do a lot when they feel like their
Speaker 1: careers on the line, and they'll ignore a lot too. Historically, Hollywood,
Speaker 1: like any other insular industry or many other I should say,
Speaker 1: is that a reputation for protecting its own This has
Speaker 1: been a long standing tradition. Roman Polanski is a great example.
Speaker 1: Roman Polanski. This is not alleged he was convicted. It
Speaker 1: is proven he drugged and sexually assaulted a child, a
Speaker 1: thirteen year old, and even today in recent years, some
Speaker 1: members of Hollywood society have sought to allow him to
Speaker 1: return to the US with no illegal con consequences, and
Speaker 1: in the past, his supporters in France, where he lives
Speaker 1: as a free man, have fought against extradition if it
Speaker 1: meant that he would serve time for again an assault
Speaker 1: on a thirteen year old child.
Speaker 2: Can I just leave now? I don't want to talk
Speaker 2: about this anymore?
Speaker 1: Well I don't either, but we have. I mean this,
Speaker 1: this is what this show should be about.
Speaker 2: You know, you're absolutely right. It's just tough. This is tough, Okay.
Speaker 2: Another person, Brian Peck, who in two thousand and four
Speaker 2: served sixteen months in prison for engaging in sex acts
Speaker 2: with a child star who was working for Nickelodeon. This gentleman,
Speaker 2: Brian Peck, continued to work for Disney when he was
Speaker 2: out of prison. So he did this terrible thing. He
Speaker 2: went to prison for a little while, and then he
Speaker 2: got to continue to work with kids at Disney.
Speaker 1: Right he went on. He was in two x Men films,
Speaker 1: he was in three Living Dead films, and he was
Speaker 1: in two Disney television shows, I believe, and this was afterward.
Speaker 1: One that I think is another profoundly disturbing example is
Speaker 1: a director named Victor Salva. You're familiar, perhaps Matt Noll,
Speaker 1: with the films Jeeper Screepers and the Film's Powder. Salva
Speaker 1: made both of those after he was convicted in nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty eight of sexual crimes against several children that he
Speaker 1: had cast in an earlier movie. Law enforcement agencies did
Speaker 1: find commercial child pornography in his home. He pled guilty
Speaker 1: to every count he did actually go to court. He
Speaker 1: was sentenced to three years in prison, of which he
Speaker 1: served fifteen months, a little over one year. He completed
Speaker 1: parole in nineteen ninety two. Jeeper's Creepers became a franchise.
Speaker 1: Victor Salvam made his most recent film as of twenty fourteen,
Speaker 1: again a free and powerful man.
Speaker 2: And we won't even get into Woody Allen. Another aspect
Speaker 2: of this system of silence, the sexual abuse being so
Speaker 2: prevalent in Hollywood, did not apply solely to one type
Speaker 2: of person, not to a single age group. It was
Speaker 2: and is pervasive for decades. Allegations of sexual violence against
Speaker 2: children have just been dogging the industry, with multiple former
Speaker 2: child actors offering their own experience, their first hand knowledge
Speaker 2: of these crimes occurring, both in the past and some
Speaker 2: of it actively.
Speaker 1: For example, Elijah Wood maintains that he only managed to
Speaker 1: escape this sort of abuse due to the vigilance of
Speaker 1: his parents. One thing that is apparently common here is
Speaker 1: that often what happens when child act enter the industry,
Speaker 1: or what did happen, was that managers, producers, directors would
Speaker 1: isolate the kids from the supervision of their parents. You know,
Speaker 1: the kid would be emancipated right and work as an adult.
Speaker 4: Even that initial Spacey story where Anthony rap accused him
Speaker 4: of coming on to him inappropriately, he was a kid
Speaker 4: at the time and was at a party for this
Speaker 4: Broadway production that they were both working on, and to
Speaker 4: hear him tell, it was too young to really kind
Speaker 4: of hobnob with what some of other folks couldn't drink.
Speaker 5: So he was just sitting and watching TV.
Speaker 4: And as the night progressed, he kind of stayed there
Speaker 4: and then Spacey just sort of came in there and
Speaker 4: took advantage of him, or tried to anyway, So you know,
Speaker 4: it requires utter vigilance from parents.
Speaker 1: And so Elijah Wood counted himself very fortunate. But he
Speaker 1: said that he and his family and everyone else were
Speaker 1: fully aware of the presence of this sort of abuse
Speaker 1: on and off film sets. In an interview with The
Speaker 1: Sunday Times, Wood indicated that he believes this is a systematic,
Speaker 1: systemic and much larger than a handful of offenders operating alone.
Speaker 1: We have a quotation here where he says, clearly something
Speaker 1: major was going on in Hollywood. It was all organized.
Speaker 1: There are lots of vipers in the industry, people who
Speaker 1: only have their own interest in mind. There is a
Speaker 1: darkness in the underbelly. What burns me about these situations
Speaker 1: is that the victims cannot speak as loudly as the
Speaker 1: people in power. That's the tragedy of attempting to reveal
Speaker 1: what is happening to innocent people. They can't be squashed,
Speaker 1: but their lives have been irreparably damaged. And Corey Feldman
Speaker 1: backed up Wood's claims in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 4: Notably Yeah, he went on to say, quote, I'm not
Speaker 4: able to name names. People are frustrated, people are angry.
Speaker 4: They want to know how this is happening, but unfortunately California,
Speaker 4: conveniently enough has a statute of limitations that prevents that
Speaker 4: from happening, because if I were to go and mention
Speaker 4: anybody's name, I would be the one that would be
Speaker 4: in legal problems, and I'm the one that would be sued.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that is a terribly poignant thing that he's
Speaker 2: said there, and we're going to continue exploring this extremely
Speaker 2: dark subject afterward from our sponsor.
Speaker 1: In November of twenty seventeen, the former child actor current
Speaker 1: musician Corey Feldman spoke with Vanity Fair about his experience
Speaker 1: with child abuse in the film industry, and while he
Speaker 1: was refusing to name all of the offenders that he
Speaker 1: says he's aware of, he is planning and hoping to
Speaker 1: create a film that will, from his perspective, finally and
Speaker 1: inarguably irreversibly expose the active pedophilia rings operating in Hollywood
Speaker 1: and beyond. He does believe the abuse he and his
Speaker 1: colleagues encounter and his children caused reparable damage, and he
Speaker 1: attributes the death of his friend and fellow actor, Corey
Speaker 1: Haim in part to this abuse.
Speaker 2: And he has a quote where he says it's all
Speaker 2: connected to a bigger, darker power. I don't know how
Speaker 2: high up the chain that power goes, but I know
Speaker 2: that it probably is outside of the film industry too.
Speaker 2: It's probably in government, it's probably throughout the world in
Speaker 2: different dark aspects.
Speaker 5: And we know that this.
Speaker 1: Concept of sexual abuse rings operating had in the past
Speaker 1: been relegated to the domain of just wild alarmist conspiracy
Speaker 1: theory claims. But we also have seen in recent years
Speaker 1: with what's happening in the UK with Jimmy Seville, with
Speaker 1: the international pornography trades or rings trading pornography online. These
Speaker 1: things were something like them what Feldman is talking about
Speaker 1: do indisputably exist. And Feldman did name at least three men.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Some of those names were a child actor manager Marty Weiss,
Speaker 4: former actor John Grissom, and the owner of a place
Speaker 4: in Los Angeles called Alfie's Soda Pop Club. Alfie Hoffman
Speaker 4: was this man's name. And I did not know what
Speaker 4: this was, and I looked it up and it was
Speaker 4: basically a disco for child actors that operated for a
Speaker 4: handful of years between nineteen eighty six and nineteen eighty nine,
Speaker 4: and the whole idea was that, you know, it's clientel
Speaker 4: would be sixteen or younger, and they were able to get,
Speaker 4: you know, an alcohol free environment where they could have
Speaker 4: a dance floor and yeah, free all night, free soda
Speaker 4: pop all night. None of this sounds creepy at all, No, it.
Speaker 5: Really really does.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was apparently a toxic environment, especially as
Speaker 2: it got later in the night. There were a lot
Speaker 2: of things that occurred after parties, that occurred even after
Speaker 2: that stuff. These are allegations that are made in several
Speaker 2: places by multiple people. The Alfie Hoffman name came up
Speaker 2: when Corey Feldman went on the Doctor Oz Show, and
Speaker 2: I guess their staff went through all of the different
Speaker 2: things that Corey Feldman has written over the years and
Speaker 2: they tried to piece together who it might possibly be
Speaker 2: this person that he keeps mentioning, and Doctor Oz showed
Speaker 2: a picture of Alfie Hoffman to Corey Felderman without showing
Speaker 2: anybody else and asked, is this the man? And Corey
Speaker 2: Feldman says yes, and then they go into a lot
Speaker 2: of these allegations that we're talking about.
Speaker 1: In his very fair interview, he said he could name
Speaker 1: six people right off the bat, So according to him,
Speaker 1: and other survivors of this. This is a systemic thing
Speaker 1: which makes it organized crime.
Speaker 4: Not only that there's a great article. Great, I guess
Speaker 4: it's probably the wrong word, but an article in Vice
Speaker 4: called Him Himself and He and it is about Corey
Speaker 4: Haim's experiences in this environment, specifically in the Soda Pop club.
Speaker 4: And as you know, Corey Ham was Corey Feldman's co star,
Speaker 4: best friend, and may or may not know also that
Speaker 4: he became penniless and addicted to drugs and pretty much
Speaker 4: died alone. I believe in a hotel in LA with
Speaker 4: no work, no career, and that systemic thing you're talking about.
Speaker 4: It's really summed up here in this quote from Ham
Speaker 4: from this video that he was part of in eighty nine,
Speaker 4: called Me, Myself and I, and it goes like this.
Speaker 4: Growing up on movie sets has its ups and its downs.
Speaker 4: I mean, sure, it's great, lots of attention, only three
Speaker 4: hours a day of school, there's makeup and wardrobe, movie premieeres, limousines.
Speaker 4: It all sounds like fun. But when you're twelve or
Speaker 4: thirteen years old, you're very, very impressionable, and I know
Speaker 4: it's easy to get off track. Like me, some of
Speaker 4: you don't have moms and dads to bring you up.
Speaker 4: I mean, let's face it, it's tough being a kid.
Speaker 4: So be smart, don't get messed up, stay in school,
Speaker 4: be anybody you want to be.
Speaker 1: Which overall is very powerful and positive message from a survivor.
Speaker 4: Yeah, except he wasn't a survivor. I mean he is
Speaker 4: ultimately this life. It's the way I see it, and
Speaker 4: tell me, you argue, tell me I'm wrong, ultimately ate
Speaker 4: him away, you know. And it's like we talk about
Speaker 4: Elijah Wood and having positive reinforcement and somebody looking after
Speaker 4: him and having his back through all this stuff. He
Speaker 4: seems like a really well adjusted human person when you
Speaker 4: see him today.
Speaker 5: That's yeah.
Speaker 1: That's why I was saying earlier that Feldman also attributed
Speaker 1: this fall. I guess what I mean by inspiring is
Speaker 1: on a personal level for him's character. It is so
Speaker 1: profound that he was able to make this a message
Speaker 1: to other people.
Speaker 5: That's very true.
Speaker 1: This is not the only video on this subject. There's
Speaker 1: a documentary named Amy Berg who addressed this ongoing scandal
Speaker 1: in her film An Open Secret, which includes statements by
Speaker 1: victims and later attempts to expose criminals within the film industry.
Speaker 1: According to supporters, factions of Hollywood conspired to stop this
Speaker 1: film from spreading, just like, just like somebody, an anonymous
Speaker 1: buyer bought that Discovery documentary that came out a few
Speaker 1: years ago about sexual abuse within the halls of government.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that was called Conspiracy of Silence. And you
Speaker 2: can find at least most of film online if you
Speaker 2: search for it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, on YouTube.
Speaker 4: And we haven't even gotten into how this has affected politics.
Speaker 4: I mean, we're starting to see a lot more resignations
Speaker 4: and politics because of these kinds of accusations, and it
Speaker 4: actually affecting people's careers. So, you know, the pieces might
Speaker 4: move slow, but hopefully they move.
Speaker 5: In the right direction.
Speaker 1: Hopefully the old adage is true. Hopefully the wheels of
Speaker 1: justice grind slow yet exceedingly fine. And you know, I'm
Speaker 1: glad you mentioned politics here because in one of the
Speaker 1: things that people re examined when so much of this
Speaker 1: abuse came to light concerned Anita Hill and current Supreme
Speaker 1: Court Judge Clarence Thomas. And Anita Hill, going back to
Speaker 1: the earlier quote Matt brought us at the top of
Speaker 1: the show, was interrogated, right, was called a scorned woman
Speaker 1: was roundly under in the course of the investigation. And
Speaker 1: now Clarence Thomas is on the Supreme Court of the
Speaker 1: United States. He's one of the nine ring raiths that
Speaker 1: runs this democracy.
Speaker 4: And although you know, this situation was deemed consensual. Look
Speaker 4: what happened with Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton. And Bill
Speaker 4: Clinton was ultimately he had some egg on his face,
Speaker 4: but he ultimately was walking around today giving speeches, doing
Speaker 4: fundraisers and heading.
Speaker 5: Up the Clinton Foundation.
Speaker 4: And Lewinsky was just totally demonized and dragged through the
Speaker 4: mud and made to look like some sort of awful
Speaker 4: home wrecking, you know, demon some the five person you
Speaker 4: have to ask yourself is is in that kind of
Speaker 4: power dynamic?
Speaker 1: If that kind of power dynamic exists in an interaction,
Speaker 1: is it possible for a real consent to occur? It's
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's an inequality of power and an escape.
Speaker 1: And critics of the film An Open Secret believe it
Speaker 1: misses the mark on the importance of the abuse by
Speaker 1: presenting things in a disingenuous or misleading manner. And while
Speaker 1: that might be up to the interpretation of the person
Speaker 1: watching the film, none of the critics of the film
Speaker 1: are saying that this doesn't exist. No one in their
Speaker 1: right mind is saying that abuse does not exist in Hollywood,
Speaker 1: and I would hope no one in the right mind
Speaker 1: is arguing in twenty eighteen that abuse doesn't exist in politics.
Speaker 1: It clearly does. And as we draw this episode to
Speaker 1: a close, we do want to note that at this time,
Speaker 1: many of these accusations, these allegations, these criminal acts, have
Speaker 1: not been examined by the court system.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so just keep that in mind when you're thinking
Speaker 2: about all this stuff. They haven't seen their day in
Speaker 2: court yet.
Speaker 1: And we have some questions. We hope that we have
Speaker 1: presented this again profoundly disturbing topic in the light that
Speaker 1: it deserves, which is not a series of isolated cases.
Speaker 1: This is not a series of one person being monstrous.
Speaker 1: It is a series of multiple events occurring and multiple
Speaker 1: other people working to cover those events up, to keep
Speaker 1: them away from the public eye, to use privatize, to
Speaker 1: keep them away from the public eye, to literally conspire
Speaker 1: against victims.
Speaker 4: I was saying at the top of the show, this
Speaker 4: is the very definition of a conspiracy. We know that's
Speaker 4: what this is. There is no theory involved.
Speaker 1: Absolutely agreed and so we want to end today's episode
Speaker 1: on some questions. Do you think more revelations will follow?
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, and they're going to continue to follow. And
Speaker 2: I think the child sexual abuse scandal is the next
Speaker 2: thing that is going to top probably at least one
Speaker 2: entire section of the film industry. I really do think
Speaker 2: that's coming.
Speaker 1: And another question that you have asked us, folks, is
Speaker 1: what enabled these revelations to come into the public sphere.
Speaker 1: Now the records conclusively do show, after all, the multiple
Speaker 1: victims continually came forward in almost every case, only to
Speaker 1: be blacklisted and ignored. And again, we've concentrated on Hollywood
Speaker 1: here because that's where a lot of the stuff is
Speaker 1: coming from.
Speaker 5: But it would be.
Speaker 1: Dishonest to say that it is limited in any way
Speaker 1: to Hollywood.
Speaker 4: I mean, we haven't even mentioned the me too hashtag,
Speaker 4: which became not only a standard that people were able
Speaker 4: to bear for this cause, not only in the film industry,
Speaker 4: but people in general.
Speaker 5: You know, you just saw it. It just blew up
Speaker 5: on the internet.
Speaker 4: Me too, And there's this real sense of this You
Speaker 4: don't want to think about the fact that this happens
Speaker 4: to people. I was talking with my mother, I had
Speaker 4: dinner with my mother, who was an opera singer, and
Speaker 4: she experienced this kind of stuff all the time, and
Speaker 4: it was just accepted. It was like, you just keep
Speaker 4: your mouth shut. You do this, whether you're a secretary,
Speaker 4: whether you're a star. You're going to have powerful figures,
Speaker 4: typically powerful male figures that are going to take advantage
Speaker 4: of that, especially back in the sixties and seventies. As
Speaker 4: we've seen this progress. So thank god we do have
Speaker 4: these digital ways of spreading this like wildfire and finally
Speaker 4: shutting it down, or at least starting the process of
Speaker 4: shutting it down.
Speaker 2: That's what Ben said at the top. Having that message
Speaker 2: of I also experienced this and then having it amplified
Speaker 2: at that level, I think it just created a current
Speaker 2: that were allowed for it to happen.
Speaker 5: I think that's what happened, right, So what.
Speaker 1: You know, going back to that, what enabled these revelations
Speaker 1: to finally be treated I would say seriously by the
Speaker 1: mainstream media. You will hear people saying that Weinstein somehow
Speaker 1: wronged in invisible system, and then that's why he finally
Speaker 1: had to pay for his crimes. But I'm concerned that
Speaker 1: that diminishes the strength of the people who spoke up,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, he just.
Speaker 5: Got caught in a way that you could no longer
Speaker 5: cover up.
Speaker 4: There comes a point where you reach critical mass where
Speaker 4: it's like, okay, will you weigh it?
Speaker 5: Are we gonna keep covering this up?
Speaker 4: Are we just gonna like throw this guy under the
Speaker 4: bus because he's a cancer and we can no longer
Speaker 4: support this behavior because it is not in our best
Speaker 4: interest as business people. And that's sad and gross, But
Speaker 4: that's what happens on the business side, you know, That's
Speaker 4: what I.
Speaker 2: But in a cancer analogy, wouldn't you say, Harvey Weinstein
Speaker 2: is almost like getting a biopsy, just a tiny part
Speaker 2: of it taken out.
Speaker 4: Whatever the reasoning is, having it happen is better for
Speaker 4: the body quote unquote the human condition, you know, like
Speaker 4: that's a good I don't know, but I.
Speaker 5: Do feel like it.
Speaker 4: These things only happen when it costs somebody too much money,
Speaker 4: and that's when they finally will will you know, kick
Speaker 4: someone to the curb. Someone is powerful. It's a Harvey Weinstein.
Speaker 2: And one of the other things that has to be
Speaker 2: said here is we kind of mentioned it already that
Speaker 2: it's not just in Hollywood. It's not any of these
Speaker 2: other places. It's in homes across this country, across the world.
Speaker 2: It's in you know, at bars and churches. This kind
Speaker 2: of thing is everywhere. And just having a brief conversation
Speaker 2: with my wife last night about this topic, she mentioned
Speaker 2: to me specific examples that she knew of in our circle,
Speaker 2: like our friendship circle of women who've been abused, and
Speaker 2: it is so prevalent. So lastly, and most importantly, if
Speaker 2: you or someone you know is a victim of abuse,
Speaker 2: whether sexual, physical, or otherwise, remember that there are other
Speaker 2: people who can help you. You can contact them directly.
Speaker 2: All you have to do is call one eight hundred
Speaker 2: six five six four six seven to three and you'll
Speaker 2: be connected with a trained staff member from the National
Speaker 2: Sexual Assault Telephone Hotline, and that person can help you.
Speaker 2: Right now, you are not alone.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to this episode. As
Speaker 1: we as we established several times throughout the show, this
Speaker 1: is an ongoing phenomenon. So if you are listening to
Speaker 1: this at a later date, it there may be information
Speaker 1: that was not available as we were recording the show.
Speaker 2: And that's the end of this classic episode. If you
Speaker 2: have any thoughts or questions about this episode. You can
Speaker 2: get into contact with us in a number of different ways.
Speaker 2: One of the best is to give us a call.
Speaker 2: Our number is one eight three three STDWYTK. If you
Speaker 2: don't want to do that, you can and send us
Speaker 2: a good old fashioned email.
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