Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big
Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they
Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the podcast, near listeners, old listeners, wherever
Speaker 1: you are in the world. Thank you for joining me
Speaker 1: today for another episode, one that I am really fascinated by,
Speaker 1: beyond excited for, and that I think is highly relevant
Speaker 1: not only in my own life, but amongst many of
Speaker 1: my fellow twenty something year olds. And that is a
Speaker 1: life beyond the nine to five and how we can
Speaker 1: kind of leave behind this lifestyle and this conception of
Speaker 1: work to have more freedom and more flexibility. There has
Speaker 1: been a lot of personal inspiration for this episode in
Speaker 1: my life recently. If you listened to my episode on
Speaker 1: taking Risks or you follow along with me on Instagram,
Speaker 1: you will know that I have recently quit my nine
Speaker 1: to five job to finally pursue the podcast full time,
Speaker 1: and I'm so excited. I signed with iHeartRadio, who are
Speaker 1: an incredible partner and an incredible home for this podcast.
Speaker 1: Really believe in the ethos and the vision for the show,
Speaker 1: and it's been something that I've wanted to do for
Speaker 1: a while. This show, this podcast, this community is so
Speaker 1: important to me, and it's grown from being just a
Speaker 1: hobby to the only thing I really ever want to do.
Speaker 1: I just love making content. I love being able to
Speaker 1: have the freedom to explore different ideas, to read up
Speaker 1: and research about all the psychology. It really is the
Speaker 1: best job in the world. And my decision to do
Speaker 1: this has also coincided with a lot of disillusionment I
Speaker 1: feel that I have with the nine to five work
Speaker 1: week and the nine to five lifestyle. I think a
Speaker 1: lot of us in our twenties have become disillusioned with
Speaker 1: this idea that our lives need to be defined by work,
Speaker 1: particularly a nine to five office job. There has been
Speaker 1: this massive shift where we have realized that there is
Speaker 1: more to life than work, and there are actually alternatives
Speaker 1: in which we can pursue our lives, pursue our hobbies,
Speaker 1: enjoy what life has to offer, and also work flexibly
Speaker 1: and be able to support ourselves. What many of us
Speaker 1: in this generation are doing is pushing back against this
Speaker 1: indoctrinated narrative that life needs to be this very linear
Speaker 1: journey where we have to follow this very strict blueprint.
Speaker 1: You know, we graduate high school, we go to university,
Speaker 1: we get a nine to five job. We work this
Speaker 1: same job until we're sixty sixty five years old, we retire,
Speaker 1: and then we can really start to enjoy life when
Speaker 1: our youth has already passed, when some of the best
Speaker 1: days of our lives have actually been consumed by doing
Speaker 1: all of this labor and working really hard for someone else.
Speaker 1: But I also think we are being confronted with a
Speaker 1: lot of seriously existential questions around job security and the
Speaker 1: future of our planet and the world, and we're pushing
Speaker 1: back against the narrative for more freedom, for more flexibility,
Speaker 1: and for more joy. Life is so much more than work.
Speaker 1: But sometimes we forget that because we have been in
Speaker 1: some ways manipulated or brainwashed by generations of industrial culture
Speaker 1: and societal pressure into thinking at work is the center
Speaker 1: of our lives and the center of our universe. I
Speaker 1: personally deeply disagree with that, and psychology proves this as
Speaker 1: well and demonstrates to us how our lives greatly improve
Speaker 1: in quality and our happiness improves as well when we
Speaker 1: do have a more flexible working condition, and we have
Speaker 1: time to pursue the things that we love, spend quality
Speaker 1: time with family, out in nature, enjoying our hobbies, and
Speaker 1: I think that's a life that we can all have.
Speaker 1: There will be different alternatives. My path is not going
Speaker 1: to be everyone's path, but for everyone there will be
Speaker 1: an opportunity to create this lifestyle for yourself. This is
Speaker 1: a generation that is going to do that. Those of
Speaker 1: us in our twenties, I think are more acutely aware
Speaker 1: of what else is out there, and we are willing
Speaker 1: to explore that. And I want to encourage that today.
Speaker 1: So I'm not trying to enlist you in some Ponzi
Speaker 1: or pyramid scheme. I promise this is just my story,
Speaker 1: and I know this is something that people are interested
Speaker 1: in because obviously the nine to five job is no
Speaker 1: longer attractive for many people. It's not necessarily about being
Speaker 1: your own boss, but fitting work in around life rather
Speaker 1: than life revolving around work. That's going to look different
Speaker 1: for different people. But I do want to share my
Speaker 1: experience today about how I have transitioned away from full
Speaker 1: time work. I'm hoping this can provide some guidance and
Speaker 1: also some information about how I made the choice, what
Speaker 1: the impact has been on me, some of the psychology
Speaker 1: behind why I felt my nine to five job was
Speaker 1: not the best for my mental health or my well being,
Speaker 1: and how you can do it too, as well as
Speaker 1: what are some of the risks to be prepared for,
Speaker 1: but ultimately why I think those risks are those that
Speaker 1: you should be willing to take. So let's jump into
Speaker 1: it and discuss why it may be time time to
Speaker 1: leave the nine to five lifestyle behind for good. I
Speaker 1: think implicittly, we know that most office jobs and nine
Speaker 1: to fives are not very natural. We would much rather
Speaker 1: be out in nature or creating something beautiful, spending time
Speaker 1: with family and friends, or simply having the hours in
Speaker 1: our day to actually get through our to do list
Speaker 1: and do the things that we need to keep us alive,
Speaker 1: like grocery shopping. The nine to five removes us from
Speaker 1: these simple pleasures because it capitalizes on our most productive
Speaker 1: waking hours. Nine to five jobs are a relic from
Speaker 1: the past when manufacturing jobs dominated the workforce and was
Speaker 1: a primary industry in a lot of areas and regions.
Speaker 1: So Henry ford Ford like the car, he was the
Speaker 1: creator of the Ford I guess he was one of
Speaker 1: the major business owners to come up with this idea
Speaker 1: of the standard forty hour work week, and this was
Speaker 1: based on the demands he was placing on his factory
Speaker 1: workers and his manufacturing lines to meet supply and demand
Speaker 1: requirements for those who wanted to buy his vehicles. That
Speaker 1: is no longer applicable in most industries. The pandemic in particular,
Speaker 1: I think, has shown us, as well as many innovative
Speaker 1: companies and even countries, that allowing people to have more
Speaker 1: flexible hours, or work remotely, or even adopt a four
Speaker 1: day work week not only increases productivity and innovation, but
Speaker 1: also overall employee health. The problem with the nine to five,
Speaker 1: as I see it, and as psychology sees it, is
Speaker 1: that it takes up our main productive weeking hours and
Speaker 1: capitalizes on this so that when we're done, we feel exhausted. Also,
Speaker 1: it never really is a nine to five like we're sold.
Speaker 1: It's much more like an eight to six or longer
Speaker 1: when we account for things like overtime and our commute
Speaker 1: as well. In my last job, I think it was
Speaker 1: actually a rarity for me to finish at five. I
Speaker 1: worked in consulting, which is infamously known for its very
Speaker 1: long hours and high pressure environments, and my days were
Speaker 1: always a lot longer than I had anticipated. Regular office
Speaker 1: hours they pose a pretty serious threat to our mood
Speaker 1: and our mental health for a couple of reasons. So,
Speaker 1: according to a study conducted at Oxford, these hours are
Speaker 1: not aligned to our circadian rhythm, which dictates when we
Speaker 1: are going to feel the most productive, most active, and
Speaker 1: most energized. Most of us can actually not fully focus
Speaker 1: before ten am, according to this research, and forcing our
Speaker 1: brains to jump straight into an activity straight after sleep
Speaker 1: can just leave us feeling more exhausted. Beyond that, I
Speaker 1: think that a lot of these jobs also encourage inactivity.
Speaker 1: If we are sedentary, that is bad for our physical health.
Speaker 1: Sitting down in an office chair, even if your office
Speaker 1: encourages standing desks or something like that, you're still standing
Speaker 1: still or sitting still for most of the day. That's
Speaker 1: not great for our body. Our bodies were made to move,
Speaker 1: they were made to be active, so encouraging a lifestyle
Speaker 1: in which that is not always possible is going to
Speaker 1: put our physical health at risk. They can also be
Speaker 1: so draining, especially when you're doing something that is not
Speaker 1: fulfilling when we think about it, logically, we spend like
Speaker 1: sixty percent of our days in an office, almost eight
Speaker 1: hours or more. And if you feel stressed, if you
Speaker 1: feel unfulfilled, that is ultimately going to bleed into your
Speaker 1: overall approach to life and how we're feeling. Stress in
Speaker 1: particular has a long term impact on our body. It's
Speaker 1: associated with high cordisile levels, which is the stress hormone,
Speaker 1: and when that remains in our system for too long,
Speaker 1: or when it's repeatedly activated, this impacts on our immune system.
Speaker 1: It makes us more susceptible to certain illnesses and infections.
Speaker 1: It also impacts how fast our body ages, and it's
Speaker 1: linked to a number of mental health conditions. I think
Speaker 1: stress and the stress associated with nine to five office
Speaker 1: culture is one component of this equation, but the other
Speaker 1: is boredom. Perhaps boredom I think is the opposite of stress.
Speaker 1: It's when your work is both unfulfilling and also totally
Speaker 1: tedious and boring. I'm sure we have all had this
Speaker 1: experience where we have had to do something that our
Speaker 1: brain could probably do whilst we were asleep. And our
Speaker 1: brain deserves stimulation, it deserves a rich environment in twenty fourteen,
Speaker 1: these psychologists at the University of Virginia, they actually examined this,
Speaker 1: but they did it by accident, so it was a
Speaker 1: really simple experiment, and they placed subjects in a room
Speaker 1: by themselves with no distractions for ten minutes, and what
Speaker 1: they wanted to see was our imagination. They wanted to
Speaker 1: see what our brains would create and give the subjects
Speaker 1: possibilities to really engage in some of that mental creativity
Speaker 1: and see what they came up with. But what they
Speaker 1: actually found was that without stimulation, many of the participants
Speaker 1: became incredibly uncomfortable, to the point that when they ran
Speaker 1: this study again, they gave participants the option to self
Speaker 1: administer electric shocks and most of them actually did it
Speaker 1: just to pass the time. Boredom causes us so much
Speaker 1: discomfort in our brains in our bodies that it can
Speaker 1: actually increase our drive to take part in behavi we
Speaker 1: know are harmful. In the case of this research, that
Speaker 1: was actually self inflicting physical pain. But in the real
Speaker 1: world we are also more likely to see higher rates
Speaker 1: of risky behaviors like substance abuse, excessive drinking, gambling, and
Speaker 1: even reckless driving amongst people who are suffering from excessive
Speaker 1: boredom like that associated with a tedious, boring job. It
Speaker 1: also increases our irritability, the number of negative emotions we experience,
Speaker 1: and our relationships. I think that is such a compelling
Speaker 1: argument for why we should be seeking out an alternative,
Speaker 1: especially if you are working in a job that is
Speaker 1: entirely unfulfilling, where you feel completely drained. You feel like
Speaker 1: you are not contributing to your society and also not
Speaker 1: even contributing to making your life better. We get one life,
Speaker 1: why not spend it making amazing memories, spending quality time
Speaker 1: doing the things we love, having flexibility and freedom beyond
Speaker 1: the office. That brings me to my next reason. I
Speaker 1: deeply believe that the nine to five job it causes
Speaker 1: us to become detached or separated for what truly matters.
Speaker 1: Work doesn't matter, work, really, it doesn't matter. It's a
Speaker 1: paycheck in my mind. Maybe that's because I've never really
Speaker 1: worked in an environment where I've been particularly motivated. You know,
Speaker 1: my podcast doesn't actually feel like work. It's something that
Speaker 1: I'm deeply passionate about, and maybe that's how you feel
Speaker 1: about your job. But I think what can often happen
Speaker 1: is we become so invested and tied up in the
Speaker 1: goals of our company or the goals that we have
Speaker 1: around work, that it causes us to forget about what
Speaker 1: truly matters. We all have stories of people we know
Speaker 1: who work long hours, not just because they're required to,
Speaker 1: but because their work has become their personality, and it's
Speaker 1: not their fault. When you are required to spend the
Speaker 1: majority of your hours doing something, our brain is going
Speaker 1: to have a cognitive dissonance, and it's going to begin
Speaker 1: to convince us that we're actually happy in that environment
Speaker 1: and integrate it into part of our identity. Nine to
Speaker 1: five jobs they also just simply take us away from
Speaker 1: nature and new experiences and time to do things that
Speaker 1: we love. It's not just the hours, right, It's not
Speaker 1: just that nine to five are our primary waking hours.
Speaker 1: It's the fact that most of us only get four
Speaker 1: weeks of holiday time, four weeks to actually go out
Speaker 1: and explore our environment, to make new memories with the
Speaker 1: people we love. That was really compelling for me when
Speaker 1: I was making my decision. But before I get to
Speaker 1: my experience, I do just want to bring up this
Speaker 1: other theory which I really believe in, and that is
Speaker 1: that the nine to five job and office jobs in particular,
Speaker 1: actually separate us from our instinctial urges, and from an
Speaker 1: evolutionary standpoint, they are highly unnatural. So our ancestors, our
Speaker 1: very early ancestors, they spent their days problem solving and
Speaker 1: roaming around, exploring new environments, foraging and hunting and being
Speaker 1: stimulated by multiple things in their environment. They had to
Speaker 1: use different parts of their brains, different parts of their
Speaker 1: bodies to survive and to essentially will live and support
Speaker 1: their kin and their children and their offspring. And what
Speaker 1: that led to was a very well adapted, complex brain,
Speaker 1: the same brain that we still have today. And our
Speaker 1: brain wants the same things. It wants to be entertained.
Speaker 1: It wants to problem solve, It wants to be able
Speaker 1: to explore and use its senses and use its functions
Speaker 1: to fulfill our goals and our desires and our objectives.
Speaker 1: When we put our brain into an environment that is
Speaker 1: not conducive to that, like a very stale office, or
Speaker 1: into ours that don't actually fit around our circadian rhythm
Speaker 1: and our natural urges, we cut ourselves off from those instincts,
Speaker 1: from our inherent nature. Obviously, it's nice to have security.
Speaker 1: Our priorities have obviously changed. We no longer need to
Speaker 1: go and forage or gather or hunt our food. It's
Speaker 1: a great, great step forward. I don't think I would
Speaker 1: have survived in that environment. But I do also believe
Speaker 1: that it's been taken too far to a point where
Speaker 1: sometimes our jobs don't even give us the financial freedom
Speaker 1: to afford the things that we need, and yet they
Speaker 1: take up so much of our time. This is where
Speaker 1: my disillusionment stemmed from, and I want to talk about
Speaker 1: my experience just for a little bit here. I think
Speaker 1: I have always known that the nine to five job
Speaker 1: wasn't going to be for me. I always had these
Speaker 1: dreams about starting my own business, or being an entertainer,
Speaker 1: or doing something that gave me more flexibility and room
Speaker 1: to explore. But I graduated from university and the next
Speaker 1: natural step for me was to go and get a job.
Speaker 1: And at the time the job that I got, I
Speaker 1: thought that was my dream job. I genuinely was elated.
Speaker 1: I was so excited when I knew that I was
Speaker 1: going to be starting with this company, and they were
Speaker 1: a great company, they were amazing. I do genuinely love
Speaker 1: my coworkers and some of the things I was able
Speaker 1: to work on, but a massive part of me also
Speaker 1: felt really, really unfulfilled. I said it before, but I
Speaker 1: was working in consulting and the hours they are not
Speaker 1: nine to five, they are for me sometimes it was
Speaker 1: like seven am to nine pm. That did not give
Speaker 1: me time to enjoy my life, like none at all,
Speaker 1: and I was quite frankly miserable. I was really suffering.
Speaker 1: I wasn't sleeping, I never had time to exercise. I
Speaker 1: was trying to squeeze in time to socialize with my friends.
Speaker 1: Normally that went, you know, going out for drinks after work,
Speaker 1: which is always fun, but I kind of wanted a
Speaker 1: little bit more. I wanted to be able to go
Speaker 1: to the beach with them, or go to an art gallery,
Speaker 1: or do something a little bit more fulfilling and productive.
Speaker 1: And I was finding that I did not have that opportunity.
Speaker 1: Alongside that I was doing my podcast alongside working, and
Speaker 1: I know that that was a self inflicted burden, but
Speaker 1: it just ate into all of my time that I
Speaker 1: would usually be devoting to my hobbies, and it was
Speaker 1: a huge adjustment, one that I think I never really
Speaker 1: did adjust to I said it before, but I was
Speaker 1: genuinely miserable. I was so sad, I was depressed. I
Speaker 1: really felt incredibly unfulfilled. I felt so unfulfilled, and I
Speaker 1: was blessed enough to have this thing, this podcast, that
Speaker 1: I knew I wanted to do full time because this
Speaker 1: was what made me feel alive, this was what made
Speaker 1: me feel motivated. I can spend twelve hours a day
Speaker 1: working on this show because I feel so happy doing
Speaker 1: that and content and I feel like I'm making a difference.
Speaker 1: But spending twelve fourteen hours working for someone else in
Speaker 1: an office doing tedious tasks was just it, wasn't it.
Speaker 1: And the interesting thing was, whilst I was going through
Speaker 1: this experience, I was having so many conversations with my
Speaker 1: friends who felt the exact same way, and some of
Speaker 1: them actually took the leap and decided to go out
Speaker 1: on their own or do something different. I think it
Speaker 1: was this one conversation I had with my friend where
Speaker 1: I realized how quickly the last three years of my
Speaker 1: life had gone by. And I was looking through my
Speaker 1: camera role and yes there was a highlight reel, but
Speaker 1: most of the time it was empty. It was empty
Speaker 1: of experiences. It was empty of fulfillment. And so many
Speaker 1: people in my life were saying the same thing. So
Speaker 1: many people in their twenties were becoming so disillusioned with
Speaker 1: this idea that we had been sold. It almost felt
Speaker 1: like a bit of a trojan horse, like we had
Speaker 1: been offered this amazing idea of security and of a
Speaker 1: purpose and of financial freedom, and none of those things
Speaker 1: were really coming true for us. I have friends who
Speaker 1: were working ridiculous hours for such little pay. Like we
Speaker 1: sat down and it was when you account for the
Speaker 1: hours they work over time, compared to their base salary,
Speaker 1: they were making less than minimum wage. That is a
Speaker 1: hard pill to swallow. That is a hard dream to
Speaker 1: keep persons doing if you never feel like you are
Speaker 1: getting any reward. So I decided to quit. I decided
Speaker 1: to leave it behind. And it was really terrifying. I
Speaker 1: think that, like many of us, my family and the
Speaker 1: culture and the society around me had never really shown
Speaker 1: me success stories of what it would look like if
Speaker 1: I didn't pursue this way of life, what it would
Speaker 1: look like to exist outside the realm of the nine
Speaker 1: to five. So it was terrifying. It was genuinely, really terrifying,
Speaker 1: and I wished that I had someone who had done
Speaker 1: it before me, who could have sat me down and
Speaker 1: said it's all going to be okay. And now I'm
Speaker 1: that person. I'm that person for anyone out there who
Speaker 1: was thinking should I do this? The answer is yes.
Speaker 1: The answer is yes. My whole life and my attitude
Speaker 1: towards life has completely changed with this transition, and it
Speaker 1: ranges from really small things like I found that I'm
Speaker 1: eating better because I'm not constantly overworked and just looking
Speaker 1: for something that is convenient. I have time to actually
Speaker 1: invest in putting good food into my body. I have
Speaker 1: time to exercise. The other day, I went for a
Speaker 1: walk in the sun, and I realized that like the
Speaker 1: last two three years, except for on the weekends, there
Speaker 1: were so many days where I never went outdoors. And
Speaker 1: that just felt so unnatural for me, because that is
Speaker 1: how we are meant to exist. We are meant to
Speaker 1: be outside, we are meant to be exploring nature, and
Speaker 1: just having that opportunity to do that was such a
Speaker 1: small joy and it was so beautiful. I will say
Speaker 1: I'm not working less hours. I think I'm working more,
Speaker 1: but that's just because I'm more motivated than ever to
Speaker 1: just explore and put out amazing content and write great episodes.
Speaker 1: I just can't stop myself. I'm a little bit of
Speaker 1: a perfectionist and a workaholic in that way. But I
Speaker 1: realized the hours were kind of never the problem. It
Speaker 1: was my sense of fulfillment and it was my sense
Speaker 1: of flexibility. And that's the most beautiful thing that I
Speaker 1: think this lifestyle offers is that you can decide when
Speaker 1: you wake up. You can decide how much effort you
Speaker 1: really put in, which is I guess correlated with your
Speaker 1: output in a way that you can't do when you're
Speaker 1: working in an office and people require things from you.
Speaker 1: But you can also set your own schedule the other day.
Speaker 1: I know I'm giving so many examples here, but when
Speaker 1: I moved to Sydney, the thing that was so attractive
Speaker 1: to me was being able to go to the beach,
Speaker 1: and I would only be able to go on the weekends,
Speaker 1: and now I can go in the middle of the day.
Speaker 1: That freedom is so beautiful. That freedom is like insanely
Speaker 1: special to me. To be able to actually prioritize the
Speaker 1: things in my life that I want to do. I
Speaker 1: know it's another common experience whereby one of my friends
Speaker 1: said this to me the other day. We make this
Speaker 1: money at our nine to five jobs. It's a secure wage.
Speaker 1: It's a secure in which I think we cannot understate.
Speaker 1: But then we actually don't have time to spend it
Speaker 1: because nothing's really open after five pm. The sun is set.
Speaker 1: You can't You know, you can online shop, you can
Speaker 1: do those things, but those are not as gratifying as
Speaker 1: being able to go out and do things with your
Speaker 1: friends and actually spend the money in a way that
Speaker 1: you want to, rather than just on one holiday or
Speaker 1: one trip a year. So I think the main thing,
Speaker 1: and the main message I want to communicate is that
Speaker 1: the risk has been worth it for me. I have
Speaker 1: been able to transform my life in a way that
Speaker 1: I always dreamed of, in a way that is so
Speaker 1: much better for my lifestyle and so productive. I will say,
Speaker 1: maybe none of this is aligning with your experience. Some
Speaker 1: people love their jobs, they love their coworkers. They do
Speaker 1: find ways to balance their work and their life in
Speaker 1: order to prioritize the things they do enjoy doing. And
Speaker 1: if that is you, I think that that is incredible.
Speaker 1: But I think as well, there will be at least
Speaker 1: one time or one point in our lives where that
Speaker 1: way of living is called into question and we're going
Speaker 1: to look for a different way forward. There's another thing
Speaker 1: I want to say, and that is I don't want
Speaker 1: to disregard that this is a privilege. Not everyone has
Speaker 1: this opportunity. They need the security of full time work
Speaker 1: to support children, to pay mortgages, to pay their bills,
Speaker 1: to put food on the table. And I understand that
Speaker 1: I also have to support myself and I have gotten
Speaker 1: really lucky. I think that kind of goes without saying.
Speaker 1: But what I really am trying to say is that
Speaker 1: is the nine to five work week really the best
Speaker 1: that society can come up with? And if you have
Speaker 1: the opportunity to work more flexible hours to have that freedom,
Speaker 1: would you take it? And I think our answer is yes,
Speaker 1: because inherently we know that what we are put in
Speaker 1: our brains and our minds and our bodies through is
Speaker 1: not natural or efficient. Society isn't what it used to be,
Speaker 1: and we have adapted, so our work should as well.
Speaker 1: Even stable jobs no longer provide the security that we
Speaker 1: are often sold or that we crave. Think about how
Speaker 1: many news articles there are a week about people being
Speaker 1: laid off from companies that they've worked for for years,
Speaker 1: and even massive players like Google, they still can't provide
Speaker 1: the security of full time, forever employment that's been sold
Speaker 1: to us as part of this steal, this steal whereby
Speaker 1: we exchange the best hours and the best years of
Speaker 1: our life for security, and that's not even promised. The world,
Speaker 1: I think, has also become more globalized and innovative and entrepreneurial.
Speaker 1: The rise of the internet and social media and technology
Speaker 1: means that our income is no longer tied to a
Speaker 1: concrete office space that we have to habitually return to.
Speaker 1: So what I want to step into next is when
Speaker 1: we can identify that it's time to leave this routine
Speaker 1: and break away. What the risks entails, and also what
Speaker 1: some of my personal fears were and still are. But
Speaker 1: how to be prepared to enter into that world and
Speaker 1: that lifestyle of more freedom. When do we know that
Speaker 1: it's time to go. That's a big question and I
Speaker 1: don't know if I can answer it, But there are
Speaker 1: a few telltale signs that I think it's time for
Speaker 1: you to take the risk. The first is when your
Speaker 1: job is negatively impacting your mental health. There are some
Speaker 1: things that we're willing to tolerate, right Like there is
Speaker 1: discreete times in our lives where we know we are
Speaker 1: going to go through more acute levels of stress and anxiety,
Speaker 1: or even just randomly. We all go through our own
Speaker 1: mental health peaks and troughs. That's a part of life.
Speaker 1: But when you can identify that it is your work
Speaker 1: that is correlated to those mental health struggles, there is
Speaker 1: nothing worth jeopardizing that for absolutely nothing. I've been there,
Speaker 1: I've done that, and I've come out the other side.
Speaker 1: And when I look back, all I can say is
Speaker 1: that hindsight gives you a completely different perspective. And I
Speaker 1: wish that when I was going through those periods, when
Speaker 1: I could identify that it was my job that was
Speaker 1: causing all of that distress, I'd made the call sooner
Speaker 1: to walk away. Your mental health is the most important thing.
Speaker 1: There is always another alternative, There is always another job,
Speaker 1: There is always another opportunity that you can take. I
Speaker 1: think the second reason is when you feel a calling
Speaker 1: for something else. I know that sounds really wishy washy.
Speaker 1: It's not incredibly tangible. We can't always tell when a
Speaker 1: feeling is right, but you need to trust your intuition.
Speaker 1: And intuition is basically our brain paying subconscious attention to
Speaker 1: things that we don't always consciously recognize. It's the age
Speaker 1: old saying to trust your gut, and I truly do
Speaker 1: believe that when we have a compelling instinct to take
Speaker 1: a risk or to do something against the grain, something different,
Speaker 1: it is our responsibility to explore that or we risk
Speaker 1: regretting it. If you listened to my episode on why
Speaker 1: we should take risks in our twenties, you'll have heard
Speaker 1: the study already, but it is so powerful for me.
Speaker 1: These researchers they found that people are more likely to
Speaker 1: regret the actions that they didn't take, or the decisions
Speaker 1: that they walked away from or didn't make, compared to
Speaker 1: those that they did. That was one of the final
Speaker 1: straws for me, actually reading that study and realizing that
Speaker 1: although there was a lot at stake things go wrong,
Speaker 1: the chances that I would regret my decision were going
Speaker 1: to be a lot higher if I passed up this
Speaker 1: opportunity rather than if I ran towards it. It's also
Speaker 1: worth acknowledging that you are an incredibly adaptive person. Generations
Speaker 1: of your ancestors have survived and survived much worse things
Speaker 1: to get you to this point. There is always a solution,
Speaker 1: There is always a way forward. Even if things go wrong,
Speaker 1: you will find a way through, and you don't want
Speaker 1: to risk that idea of what if things had gone well,
Speaker 1: what if this had worked out. Another reason it may
Speaker 1: be time to leave your job to think about a
Speaker 1: life beyond the nine to five is if you feel
Speaker 1: undervalued and overlooked, that is terrible for our self esteem
Speaker 1: and it bleeds into our well being and our health
Speaker 1: and how we treat other people. If you're working in
Speaker 1: a job where you are doing so much more, you
Speaker 1: are putting in the hours, and you are not getting
Speaker 1: the credit you deserve, there is no point staying there.
Speaker 1: There is another company that will treat you with respect.
Speaker 1: But you can also be your own boss and show
Speaker 1: yourself the respect that you deserve because it's coming from you.
Speaker 1: This next reason, I know it's not a new one
Speaker 1: everywhere or live in my TikTok or live in my Instagram.
Speaker 1: I see this idea of the side hustle. So essentially,
Speaker 1: it is an activity or a kind of a job
Speaker 1: that you work beyond your nine to five that provides
Speaker 1: you with a second income. I've been skeptical about this.
Speaker 1: I was like, some of these do not seem real.
Speaker 1: I'm not even gonna look into this. But then I
Speaker 1: was like, I guess my podcast was somewhat of a
Speaker 1: side hustle, even though I really wasn't making any money
Speaker 1: until recently. Side hustles can actually be anything. They can
Speaker 1: be anything, and they don't even need to make you money.
Speaker 1: But if there is a way to make money and
Speaker 1: to support you yourself with that, even if it's going
Speaker 1: to make or take more effort and time, you should
Speaker 1: do it because you could produce a higher payoff. And
Speaker 1: my final reason is no reason at all. If you
Speaker 1: are just called to live differently, you should do it.
Speaker 1: This is your life, No one owns it. You do
Speaker 1: not owe anything to anyone. You are solely responsible for
Speaker 1: what you want to do and what you want to
Speaker 1: achieve and the kind of life that you want to live.
Speaker 1: That is your responsibility. So if you feel called to
Speaker 1: live differently, you don't need a reason. You may love
Speaker 1: your workplace, you may be getting paid a lot, but
Speaker 1: it just doesn't align with your priorities or your vision
Speaker 1: for your life, it may be time to consider whether
Speaker 1: there is another alternative. So the next stage is you've
Speaker 1: made the decision, you're leaving the cozy nine to five
Speaker 1: or office job life behind. What's next is what's the
Speaker 1: next steps here. We're not going to be naive or
Speaker 1: blase here. Leaving behind the security of a frequent and
Speaker 1: consistent paycheck and full time hours is going to be scary,
Speaker 1: and there are some factors to consider. I cannot tell
Speaker 1: you how many hours and nights I've spent considering every
Speaker 1: way that this could go wrong. How I could be
Speaker 1: broke by thirty. I could lose my voice and no
Speaker 1: longer work. That's like a crazy thing to me. I
Speaker 1: could get sued, I could lose my inspiration, I could
Speaker 1: lose my passion for this. That's probably the scariest one.
Speaker 1: Or you know, one day people just aren't interested anymore.
Speaker 1: But the thing that I think of when I'm thinking
Speaker 1: these things and when I'm finding myself in a spiral
Speaker 1: or really ruminating, is that even when I this wasn't
Speaker 1: my job, even when I was making no money, I
Speaker 1: was still doing this because I loved it. And if
Speaker 1: I'm doing something I love, maybe it's naive, but I
Speaker 1: do think that nothing can go wrong. There will always
Speaker 1: be a way. When there's a will, there's a way.
Speaker 1: But I also chose to be realistic. There is you know, daydreaming,
Speaker 1: and there is fantasy thinking, and sometimes that naivety can
Speaker 1: get us in trouble. So I put some things in
Speaker 1: place before I took the leap. This is just my perspective,
Speaker 1: this is what I chose to do. You can take
Speaker 1: my advice or leave it, as is always the case.
Speaker 1: But if you are serious about leaving the nine to
Speaker 1: five and corporate lifestyle behind, these are some tangible and
Speaker 1: valuable steps that I think you can take to ensure
Speaker 1: yourself more long term security. The first one is to
Speaker 1: do with money. You need to have at least three
Speaker 1: to six months of money saved up to cover your
Speaker 1: expenses or some fall back or some form of financial
Speaker 1: security that you can fall back on. It's a sad
Speaker 1: reality that we need money to live, but it is reality.
Speaker 1: You need to be able to take care of your health,
Speaker 1: of your dependence. Maybe you have a mortgage or just
Speaker 1: your bills. So you don't want to be in a
Speaker 1: situation in which you're really desperate or in which you
Speaker 1: are forced to go back on your desires or go
Speaker 1: back on your goal or your intentions. So an easy
Speaker 1: way to do that is to make sure that you
Speaker 1: have enough money to saved up if things go wrong,
Speaker 1: and it will also just provide you with a greater
Speaker 1: sense of security so that you feel you can take
Speaker 1: the risk. This may take time. It took me, I
Speaker 1: think just under like eight months to get to this point,
Speaker 1: so I really wouldn't advise listening to this episode and
Speaker 1: going and giving your four weeks tomorrow. I think it
Speaker 1: is important to be realistic, but this really helped me
Speaker 1: to know that even if everything went wrong, I still
Speaker 1: would have a bit of a buffer to get back
Speaker 1: on my feet and to pay my rent and do
Speaker 1: all the things that I needed to do. I also
Speaker 1: think this grows hand in and with having a good
Speaker 1: look at what you are spending your money on. This
Speaker 1: is advice for any transition, but especially one that comes
Speaker 1: with financial risk. I sat down, I went through all
Speaker 1: my bank statements, and oh my goodness, I spent money
Speaker 1: on so many ridiculous things. I found like a forty
Speaker 1: dollars order for slime, and I distinctly remember buying this
Speaker 1: slime like a few like a few months back. But
Speaker 1: I was like, that is I do not need that slime.
Speaker 1: There are things that I can cut out of my
Speaker 1: daily expenses, of my luxury purchases. I don't think slime
Speaker 1: is a luxury, but whatever that means for you, that
Speaker 1: is going to make me feel more secure and more
Speaker 1: able to provide myself with financial security. So have a
Speaker 1: good look at what you can maybe cut out, what
Speaker 1: maybe you will have to give up, and if you're
Speaker 1: willing to give those things up or if you I
Speaker 1: guess what state you need to be and to not
Speaker 1: have to do those things and have a game plan.
Speaker 1: There is nothing worse than stepping into a new and
Speaker 1: novel situation and having no idea of your way forward.
Speaker 1: There is a healthy level of risk, and then there
Speaker 1: is an unhealthy level of risk, and I think the
Speaker 1: distinction there is having somewhat of an idea of where
Speaker 1: you're going to next. So I made sure that I
Speaker 1: had written up a game plan. I had an idea
Speaker 1: of what I was going to do on even in
Speaker 1: my day to day, what my priorities and my focus was,
Speaker 1: and what my long term goals were, and making sure
Speaker 1: that I was oriented towards that and making sure that
Speaker 1: my decision was actually aligned with this vision I had
Speaker 1: for my life and my game plan. The other thing
Speaker 1: to do, especially if you're leaving a big company or
Speaker 1: a corporate job, is to end on good terms. Worst
Speaker 1: case scenario, you can go back to that job, and
Speaker 1: you can go back to that security if you leave
Speaker 1: on bad terms. If you leave on bad terms, I
Speaker 1: think you're just a eleminate, a bit of a security blanket.
Speaker 1: You eliminate something that could catch you if you fall.
Speaker 1: So most companies would love to have you back. They
Speaker 1: don't want to invest, however much money it costs to
Speaker 1: train someone new. So make sure that you have that
Speaker 1: backup plan and leave on good terms. In the back
Speaker 1: of your mind. It will also make you feel a
Speaker 1: lot more secure and stable in your decision. Understand how
Speaker 1: you're going to create routine and a support network or
Speaker 1: community around this new path. I'm not going to sugarcoat this.
Speaker 1: It can be really lonely, especially in this industry and
Speaker 1: with my job. It's like this is a solo enterprise,
Speaker 1: This is a solo pursuit. There is not much of
Speaker 1: a community around podcasting, at least in Australia. I have
Speaker 1: had the benefit and the pleasure of being able to
Speaker 1: meet some other people who are doing this as their work,
Speaker 1: but that was intentional. I knew that I was someone
Speaker 1: who needed community around me. I am an extrovert. I
Speaker 1: need people who are who I can complain about my
Speaker 1: work problems to who are going to be there for me.
Speaker 1: So that was one of the biggest challenges moving away
Speaker 1: from the solid structure of a nine to five job,
Speaker 1: was knowing that I would have to say goodbye to
Speaker 1: that in build community and wanting to find an alternative.
Speaker 1: I think also, this is another financial one. Maybe I
Speaker 1: should have said this earlier. First, we have a realistic
Speaker 1: expectation of if this is a side hustle or a
Speaker 1: business that you're starting, what that's going to cost. There
Speaker 1: are some upfront costs of some long term costs that
Speaker 1: I didn't expect. But also, don't stop putting money towards
Speaker 1: your superannuation or your retirement. This was advice that my
Speaker 1: mom gave me. Shout out to my mom. She's an economist,
Speaker 1: she provides great financial advice. But in Australia we have
Speaker 1: this thing called superannuation and your employer immediately has to
Speaker 1: put money into that fund for you. I didn't think
Speaker 1: about this, but when I stopped working a nine to
Speaker 1: five job, I'm my employer. Now I have to put
Speaker 1: money towards that. So that's a big thing to consider. Obviously,
Speaker 1: there are financial considerations. There are a lot of other considerations.
Speaker 1: If you have children, consider the impact on them. If
Speaker 1: you have a mortgage, consider whether you can pay your mortgage,
Speaker 1: or whether this might be too much of a risk.
Speaker 1: But risks are always going to be there. They are
Speaker 1: inherent in every part of our life, every single facet
Speaker 1: and element. So it's about what level of risk you're
Speaker 1: willing to tolerate for a greater reward. And this is
Speaker 1: just one woman's opinion, but I do think that this
Speaker 1: is one of the greatest choices you can make us
Speaker 1: twenty year olds, us in this generation. I think we
Speaker 1: know that nine to five work is not the fantasy,
Speaker 1: it's not the dream that was sold to us. So
Speaker 1: we're looking for something else, and it's possible. We want
Speaker 1: to enjoy our lives. You only have one of them,
Speaker 1: and being able to work flexibly, work remotely, be your
Speaker 1: own boss is such a rewarding alternative and I said
Speaker 1: it before, but I just really want to say it again,
Speaker 1: regardless of if you're listening to this and being like, actually,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think I'm willing to take this risk.
Speaker 1: I'm going to stay in my job. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: Life is not work. Your life should not have to
Speaker 1: exist in the corners around your work hours. Life is
Speaker 1: the thing that happens to you every day. It's the
Speaker 1: thing that is made up of beautiful joys and beautiful
Speaker 1: memories and incredible connections. That is the most valuable thing
Speaker 1: to me. And at the end of the day, regardless
Speaker 1: of the financial risks, regardless of my fears, that was
Speaker 1: something that I was really looking forward to, and that
Speaker 1: was something that was really compelling and motivating for me
Speaker 1: that I would be able to enjoy my life. So
Speaker 1: I hope that leaves you with a little bit of
Speaker 1: wisdom and something to contemplate. I will say it one
Speaker 1: more time. I think it's worth saying. It's worth acknowledging.
Speaker 1: I am coming from a place of extreme privilege, and
Speaker 1: I just want to say I am so grateful. I'm
Speaker 1: so grateful. Every day I wake up and I just
Speaker 1: cannot believe that this is my reality from a small
Speaker 1: idea I had back when I was at UNI to
Speaker 1: having so many of you who listen every week. You
Speaker 1: have really changed my life. You have like this would
Speaker 1: not be possible without the people who show their support
Speaker 1: and who listen to my show and who encourage me
Speaker 1: so Thank you so much. It means the world. I
Speaker 1: really don't think I could really ever thank you enough.
Speaker 1: And I hope that I can continue to just put
Speaker 1: out even better content, make even more episodes, connect with
Speaker 1: more of you, and just see what's out there, what
Speaker 1: science and psychology is doing, how it applies to our twenties,
Speaker 1: and keep building up this guidebook for people all over
Speaker 1: the world. So I think that's all we have time
Speaker 1: for today. Sorry I went on a bit of an
Speaker 1: emotional rant, but I think it needed to be said.
Speaker 1: I am very grateful. If you did enjoy this episode,
Speaker 1: feel free to share it along to a friend who
Speaker 1: might need to hear it, And if you do feel
Speaker 1: cool to do so, please feel free to leave a
Speaker 1: five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you are
Speaker 1: listening right now. It helps this show to grow and
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. I read all of your reviews
Speaker 1: every single one of them, and they are just so
Speaker 1: personal and beautiful to me, so thank you for that support.
Speaker 1: If you have an episode suggestion, if you have questions,
Speaker 1: if you just want to give some feedback, please feel
Speaker 1: free to follow me at that Psychology Podcast on Instagram.
Speaker 1: I post a lot of behind this scenes content over there,
Speaker 1: and I'm always looking for new ideas for what you
Speaker 1: want me to cover. So thank you so much for
Speaker 1: listening to this episode. And here's your daily reminder to
Speaker 1: quit your job. And I'll be back next week with
Speaker 1: another episode.