S1: The tortoise. The podcast that digs deep into the. Possibilities
S1: of slaughter. I am your host, Brooke McAlary, and I'm
S1: joined by.
UU: It has been co-host Ben McAlary. Hi.
S2: To eagle eyed listeners. That's a term that's a that's
S2: a common term.
S1: Yeah.
S2: That's a slight tweak on your normal intro.
S1: Yeah, I was thinking about it this week actually, when
S1: I was preparing to record, and I don't know, there
S1: was something about. The word. Possibility that feels more in
S1: line with the with the whole idea was it before
S1: like digs deep into the power of slow I think
S1: and it's definitely powerful but I like the word possibilities
S1: or maybe potential I don't know.
S3: Anyway, change it up. Yeah.
S2: High power possibilities and potential.
S1: That's a bit of a mouthful.
S2: Hi. How are you going? I'm all.
S1: Right. How are you? Good, Good.
S2: This is a third episode in the. Yeah. And then
S2: in the new world of podcasts. And let me just say,
S2: we are thrilled with the feedback we've got from new
S2: and old listeners, actually.
S1: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, via email, via the website and
S1: reviews for those people who have been kind enough to
S1: leave either updated reviews or new ones, it's just been
S1: really lovely. You know, a lot of people saying kind
S1: of similar to how we've been feeling that it was.
S1: Time for a change and that this change seems to
S1: be heading right. I know it is for us. Yeah.
S1: So it's really it's just lovely. So anyone who's gotten
S1: in touch or left a review or, you know, left
S1: a comment over on the tortoise. Thank you. It's been
S1: really nice to to be back and to be heard
S1: and yeah, it's cool.
S3: It's really cool. Yeah.
S2: Very appreciative of of all of that. Now we've got
S2: a bit of a jam packed episode that we need
S2: to get through. Don't stop. Don't just stop, Stop. We're
S2: going to talk. Well, a few different things, but like
S2: our topic and we every episode, we have like a
S2: central theme or topic that we like to explore. And
S2: for this month, it's all about the sandwich generation. And
S2: I'd like to just firstly I'd, I'd known of the
S2: term before, right? Like I knew about it, I'd read
S2: about it and heard about it years and years ago
S2: and it talked about middle aged people, essentially. That's, that's the,
S2: that's the sandwich generation.
S3: But why are they sandwich.
S2: It's not the definition. I'll get to that very, very shortly.
S2: But I'm like, oh sandwich generation. I've got kids and parents.
S2: I don't feel sandwiched. So this was, you know, like
S2: decade ago I was feeling like, you know, I get
S2: the term but I'm not really. I. I don't see
S2: it myself. Didn't really know. Didn't relate to me until
S2: this year. And I very acutely am aware of what
S2: the generation of what the sandwich generation is, what it
S2: means and how it feels. So the definition is middle
S2: aged people very rough term that have. And care for
S2: a younger generation. So kids as well as an older
S2: generation slash parents so young, so take care of. Look
S2: after from a non-financial and financial.
S3: Point of view.
S1: In some capacity.
S3: In whatever.
S2: Capacity that.
S3: Is. Yep.
S2: Okay. That's essentially what the sandwich generation is.
S1: And the sandwich refers to like being the meat or
S1: the jam in the sandwich. That's one. Yeah. And sort
S1: of the pressures. The pressures that are involved in that
S1: is sort of the defining idea about the sandwich generation.
S1: It's rather than not just saying this is where you
S1: lie in. In between generations, but rather you're feeling.
S4: Squash pressured?
S1: Yeah, I think pressure is is probably the word that
S1: I would use to describe it. I'm not just speaking
S1: personally either. Just. I feel like we and lots of
S1: people we know are in that period just by virtue
S1: of our age and stages of life in a big
S1: in a big shift of seasons towards perhaps more of that.
S1: That particular kind of pressure or those two kinds of pressures. Yeah.
S1: And I think. I think it's something that's still quite
S1: new to us. I mean, I did a bit of
S1: reading about the. The term sandwich generation. And it applies to.
S1: Anyone from their 30s through to their 60s.
S3: Really? That's not found as well.
S1: Yeah. And I think that, you know, people are having
S1: children later as well. So it used to just be
S1: middle aged and to me middle aged was 40. Yep.
S1: Smack bang. That's like once you middle age, once you're 40,
S1: a middle aged. And then I turned 40 and I'm like, me? Yeah.
S3: Well, happy about that.
S1: Uh, yeah. So that's a that's a long period of
S1: time for people. That's a huge amount of that's a
S1: huge chunk of life to be feeling those pressures. And
S1: the more I've been reflecting on it because you were
S1: the one who brought it up to me while back
S1: and I've been reflecting on it a lot and reflecting
S1: on my own parents. Experiences raising me and my sisters
S1: while also caring for their parents who or had various
S1: health issues over the years before they passed away. And
S1: it's given me a huge amount of empathy and understanding
S1: for what life was like for them that I wasn't
S1: aware of at the time. Um, yeah. So that's kind of.
S1: I'm finding myself quite I feel quite conflicted talking about this,
S1: to be perfectly honest. Why? Because you and I have
S1: both gone through things with parents in the last couple
S1: of years that have been really challenging. And, you know,
S1: you're sort of staring down. The runway towards perhaps more
S1: challenging times. And yet we are very fortunate, you and I,
S1: in terms of our circumstances, the way that you and
S1: I work, the way that our relationship works and the
S1: way that we've structured it, that we've both got both
S1: of our parents still alive and still in good health.
S1: They're still very active. So we're not. I'm nervous to
S1: feel like I'm comparing where we're at with. Challenges and
S1: demands that other people deal with all.
S2: And I guess it refers back to the the definition
S2: we gave around sandwich generation in that like it impacts
S2: like three decades of people potentially. Okay so you know it's.
S2: Very broad and it and it and it can you know,
S2: impact like a in in a in a financial sense
S2: it can impact in a time like time sense or
S2: a caregiver sense like there's a there's a lot of different.
S2: Influences on. There's a lot of different ingredients in this sandwich.
S3: Oh.
S5: Oh, oh, oh.
S1: Okay. We're going like sandwich analogy.
S3: Yeah.
S2: We're going to go deep into the sandwich analogy. Okay.
S3: So like a triple decker sandwich?
S2: Well, I mean, yeah, if you.
S6: If you like that.
S1: If you're a big fan of bread.
S6: Exactly. Actually, let's.
S2: Just ask this question before we get to further into
S2: this discussion. What's your favorite type of sandwich?
S7: Okay. This is quite appropriate, actually. I'm currently having having
S7: to eat gluten. Yes.
S1: So I'd been like gluten free for quite some time,
S1: health reasons, and I.
S7: Having to eat gluten for at least the next couple
S7: of months. So I'm.
S1: Quite enjoying embracing.
S3: The sandwich.
S1: Love toasted sandwich. Yeah. And first thing that comes.
S3: Pressed.
S2: Sandwich I guess.
S3: Yeah.
S2: Is that what it is in North America or is
S2: it a toasted sandwich? Like a.
S3: Toasty. Yeah. Toasty. Yeah. Yeah.
S1: I like a cheese toasty. Yeah. On the side of
S1: a tomato soup. Well, I also love indigestion.
S7: Apparently, but.
S1: Yeah, that's. That's the first thing that's come to mind.
S1: I've had some good sandwiches. Okay. Best sandwich. I think
S1: I've ever had. Yeah. Was. At a sandwich shop in B.C..
S3: British Columbia. Yep.
S1: Called Hoss and Jill's. Yep.
S6: I remember it. Oh, well, my God.
S7: So our friend Catherine told us about it.
S1: And I loved Catherine before, but I love her even more.
S7: Recommending this sandwich.
S1: Best sandwich I've ever had was unbelievable.
S3: I forget.
S1: I forget the name of the town, but it was like,
S1: you know, when you get a ferry across one of the.
S3: Way between.
S1: Revelstoke.
S3: And Nelson. Yeah.
S1: And Jules shout out hope they survived like the shop
S1: survived through COVID.
S7: Yeah.
S2: Big fan. I'm a big fan of like the Italian
S2: sub hero type sandwich. Like the big. Yeah, like.
S3: That. Like a.
S7: Meatball.
S2: No, no, no. Not meatball. Like, you know, salami and like.
S2: Like all the different sorts of deli meats, which I
S2: think I actually had at And Jill's. Okay, so. Well, unreal.
S2: Like with pickles and, like, it's good to have the
S2: relishes on it. And like this.
S3: Dressing, I could.
S1: Just happily have a condiment.
S3: Sandwich condiment sandwich with.
S1: Like, mustard and relish and pickles.
S3: In fact.
S2: When we do hot dogs, you have a condiment hot dog.
S7: Right? Well, I don't eat meat, so, um. Yeah.
S1: I. It's true. I do. If I don't have, like,
S1: tempeh or something in the fridge to put in the oven,
S1: I will.
S7: Have a cheese and condiment roll. Anyway, so.
S1: This is now a.
S3: Gourmet.
S2: So hungry. And I just had lunch.
S3: Moving on.
S1: To sandwich.
S2: The of the sort of articles I've read about the
S2: sandwich generation, all of them have spoken about how it
S2: impacts women more.
S3: Yes. Or they.
S2: Have. They're the ones that are more involved. Is that
S2: your understanding as well?
S1: In a stereotypical sense, yes. Yeah. And I completely understand why.
S1: If you're looking at domestic load, if you're looking at
S1: like heteronormative relationships and, you know, dynamics, then you've. Stereotypically
S1: again got women who are doing the vast majority of caring, unpaid, caring.
S1: And women are also brought up to believe that that
S1: is a role that they should be assuming. Um. And
S1: we're told that we can and should be doing it all.
S1: And that feels like a lot before you've got kids
S1: and then you've got kids and then perhaps your parents
S1: get older and then you start to take on some
S1: responsibilities for them and their care. And suddenly you're looking
S1: and you're like, Your plate was full before any of that.
S1: Now where's all the extra going? You know? And that's
S1: where we see a lot of women talking about the
S1: absence of self care, the financial impact of that, the
S1: mental health impact of that, the physical health impact of that.
S1: You know, when you're not when you're when you're under pressure,
S1: when you're stressed, when you're experiencing challenges like that, it
S1: will impact things like your ability to sleep well. Yeah.
S1: And when you're not sleeping well, you're fatigued. Your health
S1: takes a hit. You then perhaps don't have the time
S1: or energy to eat as well as you would like to,
S1: which then impacts your ability to exercise. And the flow
S1: and effect is very real. And I think that again stereotypically.
S1: That stuff affects women more because we're taught through lots
S1: of different channels that in order to be a good, compassionate,
S1: caring woman, we put ourselves last. I'm not saying that's
S1: the case in our home, but I am saying that
S1: there is a reason that that stereotype exists, and it's
S1: incredibly challenging for people.
S7: Um. Yeah.
S1: What do you think about that? Because I know you're
S1: someone who has taken great lengths. You've gone to great
S1: lengths to shift that dynamic in our house, in our relationship.
S3: Yeah.
S2: And and definitely in this house. But also now trying
S2: to extend that into sort of. My broader family in
S2: in acknowledging that. And I've got a sister I'm one
S2: of four eldest of four kids, youngest is a sister
S2: who's just had a baby. And so the the pressure
S2: and and and fatigue and, you know, just the whole,
S2: you know, being in the in the thick of it. Right.
S2: When you when you have a baby. And then to
S2: think that my sister would then have to like drive
S2: the whole. Parents and and sort of, you know, sorting
S2: out my parents retirement and aged care and, you know,
S2: financial issues like all that sort of stuff. Like I
S2: didn't want that to happen. So I've tried to I
S2: tried to have a more active role in it early on.
S2: And and. Yeah, just to try and and because geographically
S2: she's quite close to them as well. Right. So that
S2: that's an extra layer there where I'm kind of more removed.
S2: So much to your I guess. Like, not frustration, but
S2: you're like your. Wanting me to be balanced. I'm. I'm
S2: probably biting off more than I can chew there on
S2: my my parents side of things of of the sandwich.
S2: The top layer of the sandwich. Sure.
S7: You're also the eldest.
S1: Yeah. You know, and I think.
S2: That's that's a big.
S3: Big factor. I think that.
S1: Like birth order typically tends to impact those sorts of things.
S1: You know, I look at the same in my family
S1: and we all, based on the order of birth, we.
S7: All have like our different roles and our different strengths. Yeah.
S1: And for you it's very much you take ownership of that.
S7: Um.
S1: Of, you know.
S7: Getting stuff done and Yeah.
S1: I also think.
S7: That you and I, for whatever reason, maybe it is
S7: like this the slow.
S1: Living journey we've been on over the last 15 years
S1: or so. We're quite attuned to the idea of getting
S1: ahead of things. Like I know we've spoken about our
S1: health journeys over the last couple of years and how
S1: we really like probably the biggest driving force behind us
S1: wanting to focus on our health is that we want
S1: to age well. And I know that through a certain
S1: lens that can sound like almost fatalistic.
S7: It's like you're 40, you're 41.
S1: You're not old, you don't need to worry about it.
S7: Yeah, and I get that.
S1: Yeah. I'm not trying to be older than we are,
S1: but I think you and I both, for whatever reasons.
S1: Want to head off some of the. The worst that
S1: can happen now, you know, and build those patterns and
S1: build those. Those muscles, literally and figuratively.
S7: And do you.
S1: Think that us engaging with this idea of the sandwich.
S7: Generation.
S1: Is also.
S6: That was my.
S2: Favorite way of saying.
S6: Thanks.
S7: Do you think that's.
S1: Also part of maybe mine and your tendency to think
S1: ahead like we're trying to? Min minimize the impact of that.
S3: I think there's.
S2: There's definitely a number of what I would call slow
S2: living influences on the way we're going about things and
S2: reading some articles on the sandwich generation and what like
S2: experts and I'm talking about doctors and psychologists and all
S2: the rest of it are sort of recommending people do
S2: that are in the sandwich generation. I'm like, well, thankfully
S2: we've we've been there and we kind of understand some
S2: of this. And so at things it's things like yeah
S2: thinking ten years in a right in the future what
S2: does that look like? What are the things we need
S2: to do now? For that to be realised ten years
S2: down the track. Right. Things like. Extracurricular activities that kids do.
S2: As you know, being in the sandwich generation, you could
S2: do something every day of the week. Sure. You know,
S2: like sport and music and you just name it. But by.
S2: By limiting that or or getting kids to just sort
S2: of recognize what they really want to do rather than
S2: us pushing them into things that we think they should
S2: be doing. That's balance, right? Like that just creates balance
S2: and it frees us up to be able to then
S2: look at the other side of the sandwich for some
S2: of our time. Do you know what I mean? Like,
S2: so we're not tilting so far over that the sandwich
S2: and ingredients for.
S7: Oh my God. So what we're really.
S1: Looking for is a.
S7: Toothpick.
S2: Slow living is the toothpick.
S5: Oh, okay. All right. I like it. Yeah, I can
S5: dig that.
S7: I think.
S1: Yeah. Okay. So.
S7: I think that.
S1: It's impossible for us to unpack the last 15 years
S1: of learnings and lessons and experiments from where we are now,
S1: and I'm very grateful for what we have done and
S1: what we have learnt and what we've experimented with. Yeah,
S1: you know, yeah.
S7: None of that.
S1: Has stopped what I have seen mounting in you, which is.
S7: Pressure.
S1: I feel like and I already said that pressure is
S1: sort of the word that I would use at the moment.
S1: And it. I feel like along the way you have
S1: absorbed the idea that now this kind of era, this
S1: decade of life in our 40s is when we should
S1: be at our maximum earning capacity, earning.
S3: Capacity and.
S2: Contribution to the society. Right. Influences on your kids like
S2: you look at it and and it's. This age is just.
S2: You're just bombarded with that.
S3: Yeah, right.
S7: Stuff because I mean, you look at.
S1: Beyond work, which is by far the biggest time and
S1: energy contributor to how you're feeling at the moment. There
S1: is also obviously the parenting and wanting to do that well.
S1: And I feel like our generation as parents and carers
S1: have absorbed the idea very deeply that we need to
S1: be as present and as engaged in our kids upbringing
S1: as possible. Like of course that's that sounds great and
S1: it is great and I agree with it. However, what
S1: that looks like now compared to what that would have
S1: looked like 20 years ago or 30 years ago as
S1: a parent is very different. I'm not saying easier or harder.
S1: It's just.
S7: Different.
S1: And. I think it's very hard to not take on
S1: board a lot of expectations and shoulds and judgments, you know,
S1: from the multiple inputs into our lives media, social media,
S1: older generations who are far more engaged than their older
S1: generations were. You know, I think that when you look
S1: at our parents, they're far more engaged with the world
S1: and with, you know.
S7: Parenting and with.
S1: You know, what the challenges facing kids are. Then their
S1: parents were. From my understanding, from my experience, you know,
S1: I feel like people when they got older back in
S1: the day, they just they got older and maybe their
S1: worlds got smaller. I don't know.
S2: Yeah. Be something like that.
S1: Whereas now I don't think that that applies to older generations,
S1: you know, typically.
S2: MM Well working much longer. Working much longer. 100. Yeah. And.
S2: Still being able to contribute to society in other ways
S2: when you're much older. Now, compared to previous.
S3: Years, and I think that like generations.
S1: The role of technology in that can't be understated because.
S7: To me they used to.
S1: Feel like there was a huge generation gap between, you know,
S1: between generations. I don't feel like that is nearly as
S1: prevalent anymore. I mean, there are there are holes in
S1: understandings and that's as it should be, I think. But
S1: I think that the world is much smaller now.
S7: In.
S1: A different way to what I said before. Like things
S1: don't feel so out of reach based on your age. Yeah.
S1: So all of that for me. It adds up to
S1: a sense of.
S7: Pressure, like you've really got to do it.
S1: Right, because we've got all the information and we're all aware.
S1: And so, you know, parenting, that's a huge part of it.
S1: But then there's a big conversation about, as you said, contribution.
S1: So I know you and I feel very much.
S7: Um.
S1: I say obligated, but I don't mean.
S7: In a negative.
S1: Way. We feel very much part of communities.
S7: And showing.
S1: Up believe that you need to show up, you know.
S1: So that for us is it's volunteering its time, energy,
S1: effort going into various programs over the past few years and. Yeah, it's.
S1: When I look at all of that through the lens
S1: of slow living.
S7: I get really.
S8: Um.
S7: I find it difficult to like to.
S1: Separate out like the shoulds that are positive shoulds and
S1: the shoulds that are negative shoulds and how much of
S1: it like there's a certain level of guilt almost that
S1: comes with it. When I look at it through this
S1: lens of slow living and I'm just sitting with that
S1: for a while because what I think all of this
S1: adds up to for you and I and a lot
S1: of people in a similar stage of life is it's
S1: a transition into another season and transition to messy. And
S1: they're painful and they don't happen overnight like it's going
S1: to take a while. So I'm just trying to sit
S1: with it all and knowing that on the other side
S1: of it, at some point I'll look back and recognize
S1: that all of this has shifted.
S8: Yeah.
S7: I feel like I'm rambling.
S2: It's good you processing it and thinking about that and.
S2: Knowing your personality, there's no wonder you feel guilt, right?
S2: Because that's just part of your being. But at least
S2: you're out there in the game like you're actually doing it,
S2: like you're in the trenches, you're doing the work. Whereas
S2: if you feel guilt the other way when you were like,
S2: I should have should be doing this, it would be
S2: totally different, right? Sure.
S3: Yeah.
S7: Yeah. I guess.
S1: That's an important distinction to.
S7: Make. Mm.
S9: What other.
S7: Do you feel any other.
S1: Pressures at the moment like. You know, we've got parenting,
S1: we've got community stuff, we've got work, we've got being
S1: part of a larger family and what that looks like.
S3: Yeah.
S1: Do you have any others that things that feel like
S1: pressure points for you or that have changed and become
S1: more obvious?
S2: I guess it's the whole and it's going back to
S2: like being in your 40s and this is the time that,
S2: you know, you're earning capacities at the highest and all
S2: that sort of stuff.
S3: Who says that, by the way? I don't know. I
S3: read it somewhere. Okay. Sorry. Go on.
S2: It was it was connected to the Australian census that
S2: happened recently last year. And they said they identified, I think,
S2: 43 as like this magic year where. You know all
S2: those factors contribute to. Anyway, I'll link it in the
S2: show notes to this episode, perhaps if I can find
S2: it again. But. It's what what's my legacy going to
S2: be like? Really? Think about like what? What am I
S2: going to.
S10: Leave.
S2: The world in and after. I've. Come off the pinnacle
S2: or the top of of my, you know, existence, you know,
S2: like I'm trying to like, I'm I feel like I'm
S2: moving into the stage where it's sort of like, this
S2: is what I'm going to do when I when I
S2: reach this age and I want to be this like
S2: all that goal orientated stuff. If I want to run
S2: my own business or take, you know, like travel overseas
S2: and work tick, do you know, do all that sort
S2: of stuff Now it's more like, Oh, like what? Do
S2: I want my grandchildren to be proud of or recognize
S2: who I am and what I do? Is that sort
S2: of next phase? So that's a pressure for me at
S2: the moment is like, what is what is the next
S2: thing that I'm going to do?
S7: Right. Do you feel.
S1: Expectations and like shoulds around what that.
S7: Should look like.
S2: It should be successful.
S3: Okay.
S2: It should be. It should make a huge difference. Oh.
S3: No pressure. Yeah, like.
S2: Me. Like it's that sort of, you know. Big picture
S2: sort of stuff. But yeah, it's it's just something that
S2: I need to explore and sit with and feel uncomfortable
S2: with for the time being. But I really feel like
S2: in a transition period and it's a little wonder like
S2: you were wearing a 40s, right? Sure. It's gonna it's
S2: going to happen but it's just about yeah, like what's,
S2: what's what's next?
S7: I mean.
S1: I've also been reflecting similarly, I guess, over the last
S1: little while and I know if you listen to the
S1: Slow Home podcast over the final couple of years that
S1: were very sporadic, you would know that my dad went through.
S7: A period.
S1: Of being in hospital. He was in the ICU for
S1: like 12 weeks or something back during COVID, not because
S1: of COVID, but during COVID. It was, I think. We
S1: locked down for the second time when he was in
S1: the ICU. So I spent a lot of time away
S1: from home. He survived. He has made an incredible recovery.
S1: For anyone who may have missed that, just letting you
S1: know he's doing great. Um, what that whole process taught
S1: me or showed me. And I feel incredibly privileged for
S1: lots of reasons to even be able to reflect on
S1: it is. You know, my sisters and my mom and
S1: I went through a period where we were letting everyone
S1: who my dad knows know what was happening. And that
S1: meant a lot of phone calls, a lot of text
S1: messages to a huge number of people. My dad knows
S1: a lot of people in a lot of different spheres,
S1: you know, through his work, through community, through everything that
S1: he has done in his life. And I got to
S1: see what he meant to so many people. And like
S1: I knew this is stuff that I kind of knew
S1: in a. Hypothetical sense. You know, you kind of know
S1: you're aware of things, but you don't know it, you
S1: don't see it, you don't hear it. And it was
S1: almost like that outpouring of love and appreciation that people
S1: sometimes experience at a funeral or after someone passes away.
S1: But he didn't pass away. You know, like what a
S1: what a phenomenal privilege. And I think that that is.
S1: Two years on is now starting to really percolate into
S1: the way that I'm thinking about maybe what I'm going
S1: to do in the next season of life, you know?
S1: My parents, certainly people who over the years have put
S1: themselves at a disadvantage in order to show up in community.
S1: You know, they will sacrifice time and energy and. It's
S1: a real call to. Reflect on what that will look
S1: like for me. I don't have any answers.
S2: Yeah, and that's okay, though.
S3: Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
S1: I'm okay with not having answers.
S7: For a while.
S2: But it is kind of hard for you because you're like,
S2: you would be like, no, I've got to I've got
S2: to get this right and I've got to like, I
S2: need something to work towards or something to consider. Like,
S2: it's not often I don't think that you don't have
S2: like this. I feel like sometimes you have too many.
S5: Yes, I would agree with that. I would agree with that.
S1: Yeah. So, you know, all of that adds up to
S1: the picture, I suppose, of. Where we're at. So I
S1: agree with you that you said that one of the
S1: pressures you were feeling was that of legacy. And, you know,
S1: part of me again is like, well, we don't need
S1: to be.
S7: Thinking about that. Yeah, we're only in our early 40s.
S7: But the other part of me is like, well, actually.
S3: Ten years.
S2: You did plan ten years in advance. Sure. That's what
S2: we've said. Yeah, that's the that's the that's the big
S2: takeout for the sandwich generation.
S1: Okay? And that's not just from us either.
S5: That's.
S3: That's actual experts. Yeah.
S6: Yeah.
S1: So how can we navigate this sense of. Pressure, you know,
S1: how can we. Knowing what we know about the way
S1: that we like to live, but also the things that
S1: we've learned over the years or experimented with with slow living.
S7: Um.
S1: What are some ways that you and I can and
S1: perhaps already do or are trying to do to help us?
S1: Move through this transition period.
S2: Well, I mean, I did speak about the kids extracurricular thing, so, like,
S2: narrowing that down and like, prioritizing that, which is not
S2: only helpful for you, but, like, it gets your kids
S2: focused on like a few things rather than doing a
S2: not good job at everything. Do you know what I mean? Like,
S2: it's yeah, it gets them to prioritize, which is a
S2: good life lesson. Some of the writings and articles that
S2: I've written that I've ridden, that I've read. With the
S2: sandwich generation. Talk about things like getting a cleaner into
S2: like for your parents house and you know, it just
S2: costs money. Yeah. Like, and I'm like, that's not feasible
S2: for them. Like jority of people like.
S7: Especially not.
S3: Just throwing.
S2: Money at like outsourcing different things. Right? But I guess
S2: for us, it's not trying to do it all I
S2: think is really important, particularly because we're one of four siblings,
S2: each of us are. And so it's sharing that load,
S2: like planning and having open conversations with everyone about giving them. Right?
S2: This is, you know, you're good at this. Why don't
S2: you you take the reins on that. Whereas, you know,
S2: like just giving people roles and responsibilities I think is
S2: really important. But it's also. Particularly with my situation and
S2: how it's, you know, with my dad and how he's
S2: got dementia. It's not getting better, right? Like, it'll never
S2: get better. So it's doing the work now so it's
S2: easier in the future, right? And that's something that I
S2: need to get moving on. It's that whole piece.
S1: And it's striking that balance, isn't it, between living in
S1: the present and enjoying. Yep.
S3: Where you're at. Exactly.
S2: Exactly.
S1: And planning for the future, but not living in the future. Yeah,
S1: it's it's really tricky. And I mean, I think for
S1: what it's worth, I think you're doing a very good
S1: job of doing that. And I think for me the
S1: biggest takeaway is just talk, just conversations. And that goes for,
S1: as you have already covered, you know, if you're looking
S1: at your parents, not like I'm not talking about our
S1: parents specifically, but if we're looking at down the track
S1: at aging parents and ways that we can support them,
S1: talking about it ahead of time is so important for everyone.
S1: But also just if you're feeling these senses, this sense
S1: of pressure in life. Having someone, a friend or, you know,
S1: a group like a community group.
S7: Or an online.
S1: Community or something, somewhere where you can share how you're
S1: feeling and what the pressures are that you're under. It's
S1: so important. It's it's validating. It helps us to recognize
S1: that we are by no means alone. You know, if
S1: you've got a mate, if you've got like a sibling,
S1: if you've got someone online that you can send an
S1: email to every couple of weeks just talking about how
S1: you travelling, I think that makes an enormous difference because
S1: so many of the articles that I read about people
S1: experiencing these sorts of pressures. It was there was like
S1: a a thread of almost. Hopelessness to them where it's
S1: people like, well, everyone's feeling the same. And, you know,
S1: I'm not asking anyone to help me. I'm just it's
S1: just hard. I just feel alone. I'm lonely in this struggle.
S1: And I think sometimes just sharing the load through conversation
S1: and saying, Oh, mate, me too, or God, that's hard.
S1: Or let's carve out an hour a month and we
S1: can go for a walk together and just have that
S1: time where it's just, you know, whatever it might be.
S1: I think anything that that helps us to feel less like,
S1: you know, we're getting squashed and no one cares.
S8: Yeah. Um.
S7: But I also think.
S1: Viewing this kind of period as a transition is so
S1: important and recognizing that that's what it is. So taking
S1: some time maybe to revisit things like priorities, as you said, values.
S1: The way that we're spending our time and energy and.
S1: Recalibrating it if we need to. You know, if we're
S1: spending our time and energy on things that perhaps used
S1: to fit in the previous season of life, and we
S1: keep doing it because that's what we've always done. But
S1: maybe it might be time to to rethink that.
S7: You know.
S1: And.
S7: I don't think.
S1: That we can have a fresh start or a clean
S1: slate in these instances because we've built ourselves up over
S1: those years and years. But, you know, I think that
S1: seeing it as an invitation to. To question and. Yeah. Recalibrate.
S7: That's probably like a more.
S1: That's me seeing it through this, the lens of slow
S1: living that I often do. But I do find that
S1: that really helps when we.
S7: Yeah.
S1: When we reach periods of change.
S7: Yeah. Yeah.
S2: Sandwich generation. Let us know your thoughts.
S7: I would be really interested.
S1: Yeah, very much so. So, as always, you can find
S1: show notes for each of these episodes over at the tortoise.
S1: So if you go to Brooke McAlary substack.com, that's where
S1: you'll find the tortoise. You can just search for episode
S1: three up in the search bar. You'll find the show
S1: notes and leave a comment and let us know if
S1: that's something that you've experienced yourself or if you have
S1: any insights. I know we have a hugely diverse range
S1: of people who listen to the show and read over there,
S1: so I know that people have got things that they
S1: can share that will be helpful to others. So if
S1: you feel like.
S7: You've got something to offer.
S1: Please.
S7: Pop in.
S2: I shared the concept at a men's table that I'm
S2: part of. Sandwich generation erased it and no one had
S2: heard it of it before. So that's again, another reason
S2: why I thought was a good theme for this. I
S2: don't know how common, you know, common knowledge it is,
S2: but yeah, it's just interesting.
S3: Yeah.
S2: Now you had an interesting theme that we want to
S2: just pick up on really quickly before we it's our
S2: second theme for the episode. Yeah.
S7: So usually we.
S1: Reflect on something in the second part. Yes.
S2: And you wanted to talk about two sides of the
S2: word community.
S3: Right.
S7: So I put together.
S1: Like a bit of an introductory post over on the
S1: Tortoise a few weeks ago where I introduced myself, but
S1: also asked people in the comments to let me know
S1: what they pictured when we spoke about community.
S7: Um.
S1: Because it's a notion that I find a lot of
S1: tension in. I say that I want it and I do.
S1: And I believe it's incredibly important. But I also have
S1: over the years put myself in a position where I'm
S1: trying to develop some kind of. Community tool or place,
S1: and I burn out really quick and then I fold
S1: it and I feel guilty about it, you know? So
S1: I think that perhaps my understanding of community has been.
S7: Unclear, maybe. Yep.
S1: So anyway, I was curious to see what readers and
S1: listeners thought of when they pictured community and. Well, there
S1: are loads of comments that are brilliant and so heartwarming
S1: and life affirming and I love it. And that's why
S1: the tortoise is my favourite corner of the internet.
S7: But one.
S1: Of the commenters, Stephanie.
S7: Left a comment.
S1: That I have not stopped thinking about. And you and
S1: I have had several conversations about it.
S7: Awesome. So I just want to read.
S1: Part of her comment.
S7: She said, I.
S1: Think for me there are two aspects.
S7: To community. Excuse me.
S1: There's one you can create either online or in person
S1: with like minded people that give you a sense of belonging.
S1: And there's also a local aspect to community that you
S1: don't always get to choose and where people are not
S1: always like minded, but being a part of a local
S1: community of people living in close proximity, even if that's
S1: all you have in common, is important to me.
S7: I think perhaps the first.
S1: Kind of community fills you up so you can take
S1: part in the second kind, which can often drain you.
S7: Community is about give and take.
S1: There are aspects that should fill you up, but also
S1: you need to give a part of yourself. And I
S1: suppose good community is where those balance out.
S7: And like that was like a light bulb for me.
S6: It's, it's.
S2: It's so funny because when you read it, it's like, oh,
S2: that's obvious. Like, that's the obvious distinction between community. Yes, right. Yeah.
S2: Like when you, when you boil it down. But it's
S2: expressed so beautifully.
S7: Yeah, absolutely.
S3: That.
S2: I just yeah, it's amazing.
S1: So I think that I never made that distinction and
S1: I was always confused about why I was so drained
S1: by all efforts to build and partake in community. And
S1: I think it's because I was looking for the first
S1: type in the second. Yeah.
S2: Square peg, round hole. I that's 100% what it is. Yeah.
S7: And it's not to.
S1: Say you can't find them in the same place, but
S1: I think my expectation was that I should and I
S1: don't think that's the case. Mostly. Truly. I also think
S1: for me, I've been thinking.
S7: On it a lot.
S1: It speaks to. It's also something I've been thinking about.
S1: A lot because it speaks to like.
S7: How.
S1: Binary and divided society has become. Where I think because
S1: of technology, because of social media, because of what the
S1: news media has become, it's like us versus them.
S7: In.
S1: All aspects. You know, it's who you vote for. You
S1: know what you think about this issue, how you're going
S1: to show up in, you know, in this part of
S1: the world, whatever.
S7: It is.
S1: It's like yes or no, in or out, me versus you.
S1: And when you.
S7: Choose.
S1: To someone else commented, they're like, I may not vote
S1: the same as my neighbors. We may not have the
S1: same values, but when they get sick, I show up
S1: with casserole.
S7: And I love that.
S1: Because specifically because it challenges that us versus them mentality,
S1: that binary mentality.
S7: It's really hard to just.
S1: View someone as someone who votes differently to you when
S1: you've stood next to each other at the school sausage
S1: sizzle for four hours. So true. And you've chatted and
S1: you've seen them interact with their kids and, you know,
S1: they're people where people. And that sounds so basic. And
S1: you're probably going, Well, yeah, duh. But. I don't think
S1: we act like that.
S3: I know.
S7: Yeah.
S1: You know, and I think that is because we've become
S1: so used to this person over here is worthy of
S1: my time and energy and effort because we think alike.
S1: This person over here is.
S3: Not because we don't.
S1: And because I fundamentally disagree with them on this thing.
S3: Yeah. On this particular issue. Right.
S7: You know, and it's.
S2: Madness when you break it down.
S3: Like that. It is.
S7: But I actually also think that's why community.
S1: Has broken down in so many ways. You know, and I.
S7: Don't.
S1: Want to get into this whole like.
S7: Pointing the finger at.
S1: Social media thing, but I will for a second because.
S3: When you shake your fist at it, you want to
S3: angrily point your.
S2: Finger.
S7: At my feet, point my feet.
S1: Two feet.
S7: When, you.
S1: Know, people are used.
S7: To.
S1: Being able to express their opinions on social media, suddenly
S1: we know things about people in our community, about their
S1: inner thoughts, about their biases, about their.
S7: Values that we wouldn't otherwise.
S1: Know. Like if.
S7: Facebook didn't.
S1: Exist, we probably wouldn't know most of those inner thoughts
S1: of people. And I don't necessarily know that we need
S1: to know those things. You know, all the time. I
S1: really don't. In light of how divided society feels at
S1: the moment. Chicken or the egg? I don't know. But
S1: because we do know that it becomes very easy to put.
S7: People in boxes.
S1: And I think that the more time we spend, even
S1: in that draining version of community, you know, showing up
S1: at the local fundraiser, giving time, you know, for the kids,
S1: supporting team, working in the school, canteen, whatever. I think
S1: that that removes so many of those boxes. And to me,
S1: that can only be a positive thing.
S8: Uh.
S1: And I think that that's really the alignment of. Legacy,
S1: Slow living, paying attention. Being, you know.
S7: Just being a.
S1: Good person.
S6: Mm hmm.
S2: Big community member.
S7: Yeah.
S1: But then the flip side of it is, okay, how
S1: do we identify? Elements or types of community that fill
S1: us up.
S7: You know, and then you buy.
S1: Then you kind of go back to the divided nature
S1: of society and people feeling lonely and nervous and not
S1: confident in connecting with people they don't know. And so
S1: how do we build that? You know, are those.
S7: Cup filling community.
S1: Spaces going to be increasingly online where it's. Maybe easier.
S7: To to.
S1: Find like minded people. I still absolutely I think that
S1: we can we can totally do that. And I think
S1: that we should. And I think the Internet gives us
S1: the opportunity to connect a very disparate group of people
S1: around something that perhaps they're all passionate about. But there
S1: is also something really.
S7: Valuable in connecting in person.
S2: It's so true. And when you were talking just then,
S2: I was just thinking about. It is so easy to
S2: connect with like minded people. Online. And, you know, like
S2: I read a blog about a particular subject and it's
S2: my opinion as well. Right? And it's it's easy and
S2: it's like, yeah, and go us and you know, you
S2: can you write a comment and it's. Basically adding to
S2: the chorus of comments on the issue, whatever it is, right?
S2: It's a theme or a topic or, you know, whatever.
S2: And that's important and that's cool. And I think deep
S2: down you're like, Yeah, this is this is a good thing,
S2: but it doesn't fill me up like going out and
S2: doing a four hour sausage says, or going out and
S2: volunteering for a soccer gala day. It doesn't fill me
S2: up like that at all because going out there in
S2: the community. In the broader local community and working with
S2: other people and. It's harder, right? You have to push
S2: me a little bit more. It's harder mentally for me
S2: to go, Oh, okay, I've got to do this. But
S2: it fills me up more to do that stuff compared to.
S2: My other community. Mm.
S7: So how do we prevent.
S1: Burnout then, because I think that's the other element to
S1: being community minded, being someone who will put your hand
S1: up and say, Yes, I will, you know, give up
S1: my Saturday.
S3: Yeah.
S7: That's interesting language.
S1: That I just use. Give up my Saturday.
S7: Yeah. No, but.
S2: That's what that's what.
S6: People say. Sure.
S2: Oh you gave up your Saturday for that. Yeah.
S8: Uh.
S1: So, you know, you're someone who is you have that
S1: tendency to say yes. You're also someone who will be
S1: asked because you have the tendency to say yes.
S7: How do we. Continue to.
S1: To give. In a way that's sustainable.
S3: I'm asking.
S2: I don't know yet because I haven't had a breakdown.
S5: Oh, wow.
S2: That's my personality, though. It's almost like I'll keep going.
S2: I don't know where the end is. I don't know
S2: where that line is. This is a different topic.
S7: This is very much a different topic.
S2: That's my personality, though. It's like I actually don't know
S2: how far I can push myself.
S1: Do you ever feel comfortable saying no?
S2: Do I ever feel comfortable saying no?
S11: Sometimes.
S12: Okay.
S2: It's hard. It's hard for both of us. We're not
S2: naturally that way. Getting getting better.
S3: How do you do it?
S2: I get you to do it for me.
S6: It's not true. It's not true.
S2: It's one particular situation that we both are thinking about. Oh,
S2: I just, I, I say no in a very. Like,
S2: I just don't have capacity to do that. Like, I will,
S2: you know, that's just what I I'm like in that
S2: I won't say like, no, like blunt. I will say. Unfortunately,
S2: I can't I can't do that right now because of X,
S2: Y and Z. Right? Like, yeah.
S3: Yeah.
S1: It's something I still very much struggle with. So I
S1: what I need to do is develop like.
S7: An answer.
S1: You know. My friend Kelly Exeter used to say things
S1: like something like, Let me get back to you as
S1: like the buffer.
S3: It's a great response, the buffer response.
S1: And then that just gives you that extra moment, that
S1: extra hour, a day or whatever to develop an answer.
S1: That is. No, but doesn't feel negative, you know.
S7: Yes. It's the postman.
S3: A little bug.
S2: Pug.
S3: It's the postman.
S7: It's okay. It's okay. He's not going to hurt you.
S6: Come here.
S7: It's all right. It's okay. No.
S13: Good boy.
S2: You're saying you want to say to the people.
S8: He's gone quiet now.
S6: It's the postman. Okay.
S7: And then I think also just.
S1: Recognizing in ourselves that we need boundaries. Yeah. And that
S1: we need to develop them and then.
S7: Honor them.
S1: Again, Not something that I'm specifically particularly good at, but.
S1: Being aware of it, I think.
S7: Is half the battle, being aware of our capacity and
S7: being aware. Going back to like the.
S1: First part of our conversation, being aware that that will
S1: change over time. Our capacity will change over time.
S7: Do you know what I mean? Like, there are seasons where.
S1: Last year my workload was not nearly as high as
S1: it is this year. Which by design. And also by.
S1: You know, having health stuff to deal with. That meant
S1: that my capacity at certain times of the year was
S1: much higher and I was able to put my hand
S1: up in a volunteering community kind of way.
S7: That I hadn't been.
S1: Able to the year before. And perhaps I can't this year. Know.
S1: So reflecting on all of that is important to and again.
S2: You got to know yourself, right? As soon as you
S2: become resentful, Hey, you've gone too far. Yeah, That's the
S2: point where you're like, hang on a minute. This is
S2: like my eighth weekend in a row of doing this thing.
S2: And there's other people that could like getting getting resentful
S2: in that community space is. It's a one way ticket
S2: to better Town.
S7: Yeah.
S3: Yeah.
S7: And I think that that's where.
S1: Noticing, which is one of the big pillars of slowness
S1: for me comes into it because you can tap into
S1: your own self-awareness. You've got tools that allow you to
S1: do that. Go, Why do I feel like this ahead
S1: of this? Event or this thing that I've said yes to.
S1: Why do I feel sick or why do I feel angry?
S1: Or why are my shoulders up around my ears? Oh,
S1: it's because I am feeling taken advantage of. It's because
S1: I'm feeling resentful or it's because I'm feeling a bit
S1: burnt out. Being able to tap into that ahead of
S1: time is so helpful because you can then still uncomfortably,
S1: still awkwardly, but say, Actually, I can't do it this weekend.
S7: Actually, I'm having a bit of a health dip at
S7: the moment. I cannot make that event. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
S1: And that's that's maybe where it all comes together is
S1: being able to recognize in ourselves when it's gone, as
S1: you said, too far.
S7: Yeah. For a minute.
S3: It's interesting, though.
S2: I love the I love the comment, the original comment
S2: on community. It's just not honest. I mean, it's just.
S3: You know, it's like perfect.
S7: Yeah, It's like a.
S1: Genuine epiphany for me. Totally. And I'm sure that it
S1: will have an impact on what I do, you know,
S1: community wise, but also what I do work wise. Because
S1: for me, a huge part of my work is developing community.
S1: I don't know what that looks like yet, but I
S1: know that that's important because I know that there is
S1: that element of finding like minded souls. To share and
S1: feel validated and. Because I spoke to someone recently who
S1: had tried to slow down. And she said it was
S1: the loneliest experience of her life because no one else
S1: around her.
S3: Was doing the same.
S1: Would or could or wanted to or saw the value
S1: in it.
S7: Yeah.
S1: So for me, that's part of the reason why the
S1: crazy this is to be able to create that sense
S1: of belonging. You are not the lone weirdo out there.
S5: Mm hmm.
S7: But yeah, thank you to Stephanie for that original comment.
S1: It's just quite literally.
S7: Blown my mind.
S2: Before we go, do you want to talk about a
S2: few things? How's your 1% going?
S7: It's. Yeah.
S1: I think when I first started, I thought it would
S1: be a neater experiment than it is.
S7: Hallelujah. Yeah. Yeah.
S1: I thought that it would be like, Here's my 15
S1: minutes a day of health, here's my 15 minutes a
S1: day or my hour and a half a week of X,
S1: Y and Z, and I can tick those boxes and go.
S1: I am improving.
S7: Things by.
S1: 1%, and that would have completed my experiment for the
S1: year perfectly.
S7: Well.
S1: And there are days where that still exists, but it's
S1: more so I think I'm really starting to shift my
S1: focus into all of the tiny ways that I am
S1: choosing to show up just that little bit extra in
S1: life every day.
S7: And I really like it. Like, I really like it. It's,
S7: you know, taking.
S1: The extra minute to send a text message. When I
S1: think of someone, let them know I think of them.
S7: That's not changing anything quantifiably. Ever. You'll never be able
S7: to measure.
S1: The impact that that has or doesn't have in life.
S1: But we don't know.
S7: We don't know how much of an.
S1: Impact that text message.
S7: Like that, that little dopamine.
S1: Hit that I got, you know, that.
S7: Serotonin boost, that.
S1: That connection. I don't know all of those happy hormones
S1: or happiness brain neurotransmitters, um, how that then impacted my
S1: choices and behavior for the following day.
S7: How that.
S1: Impacted my sense of feeling like I belong in a
S1: community because I'm down at the coffee shop and I
S1: see my friend and we've got that slightly, you know,
S1: stronger bond because I sent her that message.
S7: Like, Yeah.
S1: It's all of.
S7: Those invisible threads. That I see as.
S1: My one percent's. And it's been really interesting to most
S1: mornings I get up and I write in my logbook
S1: from the day before, and I'm just trying to keep
S1: a track of all of those tiny little choices that
S1: I made that might have been slightly different or slightly elevated.
S7: To what I would.
S1: Normally have done if I was just sitting in my
S1: default mode.
S7: And it's really cool to see.
S1: Certain threads continue to pop up. Community relationships connection are
S1: big for me at the moment, which is interesting because
S1: I would say that that's probably one of my weaker spots.
S7: Yeah.
S1: So it's interesting that without any, any.
S7: Um.
S1: Like overt effort spoken ahead of time that keeps coming up.
S7: Yeah. What about you?
S2: Oh, my six day workweek is going great.
S7: Um, really.
S6: Struggled with the four day workweek. Oh, it feels.
S2: Like a pipe dream. Hey, I just haven't. I haven't
S2: set it up in a way that, um. Is doable
S2: at the moment, and I'm talking about the way that
S2: I've set up my work arrangements and I can't see
S2: that changing for the next sort of, say, six months. But.
S2: Come back to me in December. And I hope to
S2: have put in a better framework for what a four
S2: day work week looks like. It's I know I said
S2: to it, I said I started in April and it's hard.
S3: Oh yeah.
S2: For being self-employed and working with a number of clients.
S2: It's just it's really hard. Coupled with my inability to
S2: say no.
S7: It's interesting, though. So like, if you go back to that.
S1: Episode of the of the Pod where we spoke at
S1: length about the four day workweek.
S7: Everyone to.
S1: The letter said and these were none of them were
S1: self-employed like small business owners, these people, they.
S3: Trialled it and they trialled.
S7: It. They like quite a number of people said.
S1: Something to the effect of it was six months of
S1: six day weeks in order to set up a four
S1: day week, you know, and you're trying to make all
S1: of these.
S7: Changes what I'm doing in your own and.
S1: You're in that process now.
S7: So the fact that you know. You're frustrated and you're
S7: aware of what you're.
S1: Up against means that you're your head's in that space.
S1: It's just the logistics of it that are.
S3: Yeah, it's, you know, it's meh.
S2: And it feels further away than it did when when
S2: I spoke about it in February.
S3: March.
S7: February, March, we were living.
S1: In the afterglow of the New Year.
S3: You know, it's still the beginning.
S2: Of the year, isn't.
S6: It?
S5: I'm sorry to tell you, but it's not.
S2: It's crazy. She's just absolutely nuts. So, yeah, it's it's
S2: a work in progress and not much to update on,
S2: on a positive sense. But I'm in the trenches. You know,
S2: I'm going through the process and trying to trying to
S2: trying to still build out what that looks like on
S2: a practical sense. And I've had like a lot of
S2: people say, you know, someone I work really close with.
S2: We work on a number of clients together. And Andy
S2: said to me, he's like, I'm not going to bother
S2: you on a Friday because that's your So I'm like,
S2: you know, that's not like just that single conversation has
S2: given me sort of hope, right? That it can be done,
S2: but just not now in the way that I'm romanticised
S2: about it. Back in in in February.
S3: Yeah.
S7: And that's the other thing, right?
S1: The reality of it is always going to be vastly
S1: different to our dreams.
S7: Yeah, exactly.
S2: Before we go, you want to talk about rhythms?
S7: Oh, yeah. Really? Briefly.
S1: I'm actually running a Rhythms mini retreat over on the
S1: tortoise for all paying subscribers. It starts on the 21st
S1: of May.
S7: Just runs for two weeks. And it's really just.
S1: Taking you through the process.
S7: Of, I guess.
S1: What I mean when I talk about.
S7: Creating.
S1: Rhythms, why it's important, how to develop your own rhythms
S1: for your morning, your evening, perhaps your weeks, seasonal rhythms.
S1: And it's just a hands on practical kind of two
S1: part workshop retreat.
S7: That I'd love.
S1: For people to come.
S7: And take part.
S1: In. If you're listening to this after the 21st of May,
S1: it's going to be there available for or or paying
S1: subs over on the tortoise. And similarly, we'll probably reflect
S1: on a previous workshop that I ran a few months ago,
S1: all about values, where I took people through the process
S1: of identifying their personal values and looking at how we
S1: can use them to make decisions and, you know, move
S1: forward through these periods of transition and. Change, you know,
S1: your values kind of front and center. It's something that
S1: you and I have done and probably need to do again,
S1: to be perfectly honest.
S3: Oh, totally. Yeah, it's a good idea.
S7: Yeah. But I mean, head over to the tortoise. I
S7: publish a letter every Thursday or Friday every week that
S7: is freely available to everyone.
S1: The podcast lives over there.
S7: And then there's the, you know, quarterly.
S1: Workshops and retreats.
S7: For paying subscribers. If you wanted to support the podcast
S7: and my work in that way.
S2: Really, again, as we said at the top of the show,
S2: I really appreciate all the comments, reviews, ratings. Absolutely. Everyone's
S2: left a bit of an insight into my personality. It
S2: you're not posting on it in on LinkedIn as much.
S2: Not nearly as much in your LinkedIn.
S6: Sorry, what did I say? LinkedIn? I don't know. Instagram.
S7: Yeah. No, once a month.
S3: Once a month.
S2: And so I used to like going on and seeing
S2: people's reactions to episodes. But you know, when you used
S2: to do one per episode, right, Like, and like, go on.
S2: And you.
S14: Know. I missed that interaction.
S6: Sorry. No, not at all.
S2: But I. That's why I think I'm more even more
S2: appreciative of people that are living.
S7: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So thank you, everyone.
S1: Thank you for listening. I hope you have a wonderful week.
S1: And until we are.
S7: Next in your ears, take good care.