Kevin Horek: Welcome back to the show.
Today we have Lily Eva Bartha.
She's the founder and c e o of Jane.
Lily, welcome to the show.
Lili Eva Bartha: Hi everybody.
Hi Kevin.
Thanks for having me on the show.
It's really exciting.
Kevin Horek: Yeah, I'm excited to have you on the show.
I, I think what you guys are doing is really innovative, but before
we get into all that, let's get to know you a little bit better
and start off with where you grew
Lili Eva Bartha: up.
Absolutely.
Um, so I'm from Hungary, which might be surprising because most
people find my accent quite cryptic.
Um, there's definitely a mixture in there.
Um, so I come from Hungary and I grew up in Hungary.
Um, I had a quite, uh, general upbringing.
My parents are a bit obsessed about science.
So, uh, my father was a physicist and my brother is a mathematician, so it
was quite fairly straightforward that I'm gonna be a mathematician too.
So that's basically my childhood.
I spent it in math camps and special math classes and math competitions.
So it's fairly a mathematical oriented upbringing for sure.
Kevin Horek: Interesting.
And that must play into what you're, you're doing
Lili Eva Bartha: today.
Oh, 100%.
There's a, there's a lot, lot of things that kind of took me around
different topics, but at the end of the day, science is always there.
It's, uh, the basics of everything.
And I find mathematics as a beautiful, like, descriptive language, uh, to, to
understand what's happening in nature.
So possessing knowledge is, is really essentially my career
today that I'm a mathematician.
Very
Kevin Horek: cool.
So walk us through your university because.
You've been through a lot of it.
Lili Eva Bartha: Oh yeah.
I'm, uh, some people think I'm a bit addicted to studying.
That might be true actually.
I think it's one of the funniest things to do.
Like, uh, you know, it's amazing to spend time just learning, absorbing knowledge.
Um, so I did a Bachelor of Master in Applied Mathematics in Hungary,
and that was all wonderful and, and truly, truly great.
But fun fact, um, I bought a sewing machine.
The last years in my Masters, um, simply because I run out of outfits
to wear, and that's not a show.
I used to buy lots of different outfits always from secondhand.
That's, that's something I'm really, um, like persistent
on, always from secondhand.
But yes, still I did run out of outfits.
So I bought a sewing machine without having any knowledge
on how to make anything.
I bought some fabrics I found in a basement store.
It turns out they were waterproof table cloth, but that didn't stop me.
And I made some cocktail dresses and I did go out in them and people
started asking what I got them from, and I was like, well, I just made it.
Today And it was, it was pretty funny because that experience slowly made me
realize that I'm actually really missing something to do with my hands, something
creative, hands-on, physical, tangible.
And then that's what happens in my head.
I decided to become a fashion designer.
Um, and instead of doing a PhD in science, I uh, moved to Denmark
and I started studying fashion.
Kevin Horek: Okay.
Fascinating.
So walk us through the rest of your education and then let's dive into your
career up until what you're doing today.
Lili Eva Bartha: Absolutely.
So this is kind of where the fun starts because until that point that
I moved to Denmark, it was really just a straightforward, you know, you're
studying science, you are doing science, and I really, really did enjoy it.
But then suddenly you announced to your family.
Okay.
Now I'm going to Denmark and I'm, I'm gonna study fashion.
And they're like, why would you do that?
So, um, I moved to Denmark.
I entered a really, really interesting college.
Um, I remember the first time I heard about studying in Denmark.
They were advertising it with Copenhagen.
And of course Copenhagen is incredible.
Um, but it turns out this school was everywhere but Copenhagen.
It was in the middle of a peninsula called Jutland, and it's literally
in the middle of nowhere, which is actually really interesting because.
It kind of made me four years of an incredible exploration time, time in,
in the middle of like no distraction, no metropolitan cities, just me and
the sheep because there were lots of sheep around the school, in the
backyard, in the garden, on the streets.
And then you had this incredible facility.
You had all the equipments there.
So I actually learned a lot and I became a really kind of, A
multi-skilled fashion designer.
I think during those years I've also interned and worked at quite a few
designers like Zu, Manish, Aurora, and it was a really, really interesting time.
Once I finished my Bachelor, um, I decided that, uh, I'm gonna study
masters because I cannot stop it.
I just need to learn more.
I need to understand more about the industry.
So then I moved to London and I started studying at the Royal
College of Art on the fashion course.
And it was a really interesting wake up call because, um, you know, as time
progressed and I'm, the more and more I became aware of the implications of
the fashion industry from a societal and environmental perspective, the
more I understood that actually what I'm doing is not what I would like to
contribute to the system because I've been doing physical collections, I've
been producing stuff, and it was actually a beautiful way of expressing myself
and sharing my stories with others.
They could literally wear my emotions and my feelings, but I suddenly realized that
that's not what the word needs right now.
The word needs, solutions and alternatives, innovation to
reduce the negative impact because fashion is the second most
pollutive industry in the world.
So a very interesting point came in my career because I was just about to enter
the last year of my second masters, and then I was about to leave the industry.
I was like, I need to go back to science.
This is not what I signed up for.
And the very vice person told me who's actually the course leader,
lovely, lovely, Zoe broach.
She told me that if I leave, I would just be like anyone else
who left and didn't give a chance.
You know, to kind of change the system or, or re reappropriate
how you, how you perceive fashion.
Um, but if I stay, I have freedom.
Endless amounts of freedom to really think about what fashion
could be, if it could be anything.
So I decided to stay.
I finished my master's and during that time I became a digital
expert, which is quite a bold.
Statement to say, but again, I love learning and YouTube is my best friend.
So in a matter of months, I created my first ever virtual
reality project in 2019.
Then it, we went into lockdown and it was a very interesting experience of suddenly
ending up in your living room with your sewing machine, with your fabrics.
And not really knowing what to do to finish your course.
So I had this little laptop, nothing, uh, not a gaming laptop, not a
strong laptop, but yet I decided to work on it for three months.
And you know, I sometimes had to render for days and weeks on
that tiny laptop just to get some kind of digital video out of it.
But it was a very interesting experience because during that
time, The pandemic really affected a lot of different stakeholders in
the fashion industry and obviously worldwide, very many other industries.
So there was a lot of, lot of demand on, uh, having digital support and assistance
from designers like me or studios.
Um, who know how to digitize things.
Lots of companies were struggling to not just manufacture their
products, but even, uh, promote it or showcase the latest collections.
So during those times in 2020 and 2021, it was really interesting to get
involved with lots of different brands, stakeholders, academia and designers,
and help them, um, with my digital skills, um, to kind of stay up to date
to be able to maintain their business.
And it also gave me a great opportunity to understand how they see the digital space
and what digital fashion could really be.
It started off as a really interesting, uh, tool, which is part of Industry 4.0.
It's a, it's a product of automation and digitization.
You know, technological advancements enable us to use CAD design in many
different ways, and, uh, digital fashion as a modeling tool is a great.
Create alternative to eliminate certain amounts of sampling in a physical supply
chain show, different kind of product variations without needing to make them.
So the supply chain part of that digital fashion application
was really interesting.
And throughout those years, I created a studio.
And with the studio, I did a lot of, lot of different projects,
but I never stop at one thing.
Digital fashion is really interesting, but the tools and the skills are what
really, really kind of intrigue me.
So I started working a lot with virtual reality, augmented
reality, and gaming genes.
And I wa uh, did a lot of immersive projects, installations,
even artist residencies.
I started researching at a couple of universities and I also did lecturing.
So in the last couple of years, I managed to experience a really wide
range of kind of career opportunities and they all really helped me and
informed me to kind of, um, identify what is the actual contribution I want
to give to the fashion industry and the creative industries at large today.
Kevin Horek: Fascinating.
Okay, so you have this idea for this digital fashion app, but.
And allow people to create their own.
But how did you actually decide to go for it and start building it like you
built the first version or, or walk us through the early, um, stages of gene.
Lili Eva Bartha: Absolutely.
It's a really interesting story because I never meant it
to happen in the way it did.
Um, it all started with one of the projects during the
period I just described.
Um, I was the first ever virtual residence, or actually that
first ever digital residence.
In a virtual time, in pandemic time, so everything digital and virtual
and online at, um, the University of Applied Sciences in Amsterdam.
And during that time, in end of 2020 and 2021, um, they gave me a couple of months.
Um, to do whatever I want really, which is a beautiful perk of artist residencies.
Like, imagine you wake up and you can let you do obviously with your time
and skills and the resources they provide you with, uh, anything you
want is such a liberating experience.
I'm pretty sure I will never experience it again, but if anyone who's listening,
you know, is an artist or has done artist reside, Is, uh, please keep it up because
it's, it's an amazing opportunity.
So in that residency, um, I started developing this idea of how to
break down what digital fashion or just digital self-expression is.
Who are we in the digital?
And how can it be a social and shared experience?
And I started developing this idea of a fashion game where you are able to
design with someone back and forth.
And that kind of evolved into more of an immersive experience
and universe around creation.
In vr I developed a virtual, uh, reality project called Beyond Vision.
It has.
Seven Parla universes all built in vr.
And you could design outfits without any technical knowledge,
but with really fun things.
For example, you could grow virtual outfits with bi-digital algorithms,
or you could train them in real time with interactive machine learning.
So for example, if you had a custom bodily movement, your VR headset
kind of recorded through body tracking and it triggered certain
customized reactions from the outfits.
It was a very experimental project.
Uh, it was very fun as well.
And because it was an academic kind of collaboration, I got to user test it.
So the university provided me with quite a lot of students and uh, academic
professors, and that's the first time anyone ever told me, quite frankly.
Please make this into a product because it's fun.
And when we are doing outfits and fashion in the digital, the software
currently, while it's really powerful and incredible, it's very complicated
and it's not what we are used to.
Because if you think about fashion or pattern design, we grew up with.
Paper, scissors and pen in our hands.
And then suddenly someone puts you in front of a screen, a 2D screen,
and then you see an overwhelming amount of UI and interactions.
And if you are a, you know, a UI expert, Kevin, then you must know that while
um, you can design interface as well.
If people are really new to it and they have no technical skills, it's
a really steep learning curve, hun.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
So the feedback, yeah, um, the feedback from the, the students was really
interesting and it kind of reminded me of my experience when I first opened
CLO 3d, which is the industry standard fashion software to make outfits.
It was very confusing for me and it almost stopped me from exploring
the digital, so that kicked me off on the journey and I kind of played
with this idea for a long, long time.
Okay, so obviously this is not gonna be, uh, an abstract experiment via project.
What could it be?
I work a lot with body tracking, and I did a lot of inverse kinematics,
which means that if you're controlling.
Or if you're holding your controllers in vr, that kind of
informs your whole of avatar.
That's like, let's say real size in VR on how you are moving.
So translating your physical body in the virtual space was really important for
me, and I was starting to think about.
How then the human factor can be involved in this and how this
can be eventually, um, a product.
So I started developing an application where you could design
in VR and then you could wear it in AR with a mobile application.
It was very early days for, uh, body tracking in 2020 and 2019.
So I was using arki from Apple.
And the tracking experience, I must admit, wasn't really accurate or good at
all, but it was an interesting concept.
And you know, I went through quite a few iterations, but I think one of the
most important kind of, um, experiences for me that really made me aware of what
is it that this should be was teaching.
I'm a very dedicated lecturer.
I love my students and I'm in contact with quite a few universities around the world.
Many of them are in London, and uh, I teach a lot.
I teach immersive experience, design, digital fashion, um, new media.
And you know, every time I talk to the students about how to make
digital content, how easy it could be, I can see their pain points.
They are really, really missing tools that enable them to quickly prototype
something without having to, you know, be on a professional level with 3D modeling.
And I was so lucky to get all the feedback from these actual potential users.
They are the ones who informed me, okay, you should actually make a
really accessible, very playful and very intuitive platform where I
can simply just design outfits and.
You know, we could discuss how much freedom does this
platform really give users.
But, uh, just to quickly answer your question, it was really the kind of
one-on-one engagement with my students, with the user testers and people started
coming to me saying, please Lil make a software that can enable me to explore
digital fashion, but not in that stressful way that currently I'm encountering if
I open the industry standard software.
Kevin Horek: Fascinating.
Okay, so walk us through how the platforms evolved to what it is today.
Lili Eva Bartha: Yes.
Another really, really exciting, sorry, to be fair, everything is
super exciting for me these days.
So if you ask me about the weather, that's the only thing
that's not exciting in London.
Um, but actually, um, you know, from the moment of, okay, this is going
to be a platform and people should be easily accessing it, they should
be using it in a very intuitive and seamless way, and it should provide.
Incredible freedom.
Well, that's a very ambitious plan and it doesn't just happen like that.
It's a lot of trial and error.
So, um, I went into a couple of accelerators and incubators,
um, in 2021 and 2022, and it was really interesting to.
Understand.
Okay.
You, you can have a great idea.
Um, you can have a great prototype, which I had because I've built from my,
uh, artist residency project, I built an actual virtual related product.
Uh, looking back at it, I'm sure one day I'm gonna exhibit it somewhere because
it's obviously like it's built by me.
It works, it proves the concept, but it's, uh, very far from a commercial product.
And I went into fundraising.
I built a pitch deck.
Which was really interesting because I love this about entrepreneurship.
Nobody can prepare you to be an entrepreneur.
You can go to incubators, you can learn courses, but actually
it all happens on the run.
Like, um, how to make an investment ready pitch deck.
Uh, what is actually the business idea behind your concept?
How will this be profitable and why should people invest in you if you
have never built a company before?
So looking back at that time, it was really interesting how,
you know, Trial and error.
Trial and error took me through a lot of iterations and while, uh, I
must admit, I think one of the best guests I have right now as the founder
is actually presentation making.
If you can make a good presentation, you can tell any story, you can
persuade anyone about anything, sometimes even without a product.
So, My presentations, uh, you know, evolved from, yeah, this should be
a system of 10 different features and we should do a whole like
framework around this and that it distilled down into one single thing.
Let's make a platform where people can unlock templates.
Customize them to a really, really big kind of extent, and then give them use
cases, enable them to shoot videos, uh, enable them to wear the outfits in other
platforms and eventually enable them to monetize on their creation by trading.
So that's basically what general is today.
But the journey was quite, uh, an interesting one.
I went into fundraising, uh, last year.
And it was just the right time.
The markets were still quite fine and uh, I actually closed
a very successful pre-seed round with roughly 800,000 pounds.
Oh, congrat.
Just, it was, it was a, it was a wonderful moment when, when I
got that overwhelming interest.
The funny thing was, I remember I met wonderful investors in like hotel lobbies
or, or on Zoom, and I was proudly showing them my VR product that I have built.
By myself, you know, I'm not a developer of sorts.
And um, now looking back, I know that they were not investing in
that proof of concept VR project.
They were investing in me, they were investing in my
dedication and in my passion.
And I think that's quite beautiful because I often question should I be a founder?
Like who, who told me I'm a good founder?
But when people believe in my dedication that I get really inspired.
Because that's the best thing I can do.
I can be passionate, I can be committed to my goal.
And if you remember, my whole point of staying in fashion was to reinvent how
I see fashion, what fashion is for me, and how I can make the system better.
In any way possible.
So today, that's what really keeps me going because I know that I'm
doing something that could be eventually an alternative, maybe
one day to physical consumption.
It could maybe help reduce overproduction or over consumption.
It could help people to understand what fashion really is for them,
because I think fashion is a beautiful tool for self-expression.
There are many other tools to express who you are.
Not just fashion, but when we are in the digital space.
You are becoming a bit more limited and the platforms under tools really kind
of define how you can express yourself.
And we are really visual people.
So fashion in the digital, whatever that is, is actually
sometimes really important.
So self-expression through, you know, for example, outfits.
Simple as that.
People do want to engage with it because we naturally want to express.
Our personality on all platforms.
So today it's really exciting to see that how kind of this
like mindset is wide spreading.
I'm really hoping that in a couple of years it'll be very kind of general
to, to want to express yourself through digital outfits in the digital space.
And that's where general.
Our platform is kind of hopefully paving the way towards something
where everyone can do it themselves.
So we kind of give control to the user.
We give them freedom so they can truly decide who they want to be and how
they want to kind of be perceived.
Kevin Horek: Interesting.
Well, the other thing too is even just.
Obviously as we're becoming avatars online or even just in digital
profile photos that are just, you know, simple one-dimensional
graphics, being able to add our own, almost like digital fashions on top.
And I You have that right on your homepage, right?
Like, like where your creations and ar, but, and on your avatars.
But you could even just do it in, in your social profiles, right?
Like, which is interesting.
Oh, absolutely.
Go ahead.
Sorry.
Lili Eva Bartha: Yeah, absolutely.
It, it's uh, anywhere where it's visual it and it, if it makes sense and if
someone feels like with that they can get closer to what they want to
express, then we are there to help.
We are working on all solutions possible.
Kevin Horek: No, very cool.
So I want to dive a little bit deeper into actually using the
software I was playing with it.
And, uh, like to me it's intuitive just because I've been using
similar software for decades.
Right.
But I'm curious, how do you explain it to somebody that's maybe never
used a design tool before and, and what's the feedback been?
I.
So far on actually being able to build and create some of this
Lili Eva Bartha: stuff.
Oh, that's a great question.
I, it is so clear.
You have a ux UI background.
Love it.
Um, okay.
Very, very valid point because one of our biggest unique selling
points, or at least I hope it is, is that we offer an easy, intuitive
and accessible creation experience.
So obviously, Is that true?
That's a big question.
So far, so good.
So how we are doing this is actually really interesting.
We built our alpha version, um, last December.
Okay.
And then we made a closed testing, kind of invite only testing.
So that was 2022, December and January this year.
Um, and then we started iterating from that.
So we got to like some basics and then we started working from the feedback.
So, Just to give a bit more insight on how we got to even the basics.
Um, I work in roughly 10 to 15 different 3D software.
Uh, I tried even more so.
And because you also understand this many software works in similar ways.
Yeah.
In terms of how you navigating the 3D word, um, how you want to
communicate information for the user.
What is the application for most of the 3D modeling tools?
Are all about what you are going to create.
So their function is to be almost invisible and super easy to use.
Um, well, super easy to use.
Talking about Blender.
If you know how to use Blender, that's wonderful, but super easy to use.
I could question that, that's fair.
But everyone, everyone says, you know, It's okay because
it's a professional tool.
Well, it's okay if it's a professional tool, but if you look at the user
generated content, uh, kind of, um, content creation, not revolution, but
how it's rising, how it's becoming more and more, um, kind of, uh,
common and how the younger generation really wants to take part in it.
Then I started to question, okay, what should a creation to look like them?
Does it need to be that complicated?
Does it need to give you that much control?
Or can we actually make something more friendly?
Something that creates a more impactful result with less effort,
less technical learning curve.
So the principles of Gen rely on how to simplify not just the UI itself,
but the user experience itself.
What is it?
That you want to do with an outfit?
What is it that will make it yours and how can we translate it into features?
So we started like breaking it down to, okay, we have an outfit.
You might wanna change the silhouette, you might wanna have short sleeve,
long sleeve, something like that.
So even today we have some sample templates where you can do that.
And of course we will continue to expand on this like modular
block-based, uh, editing solution.
Um, And then the second part is the fabrics, because it's all about that.
So, um, it's very interesting to observe that many people look for familiar things.
They want to understand what they see because they cannot touch it.
So having hyper-realistic fabrics is actually really interestingly key.
For some people they see it as replication of reality and they don't see the value in
it, and for some people that's the volume.
So we've recently integrated actually substance materials.
So we are using full on pbr, so physics based rendering system and eventually
we will open it up for anyone.
So you could take your substance materials that you use anywhere else, and then you
bring it to us and it they look the same.
The thing, the trick about this kind of, um, it's part of the
interoperability strategy, the tricky part is that actually general users
have no clue what substance is.
So, you know, it's, it's, it's gonna be always addressing a bit more niche
audience, but general audiences.
Don't have to know what substance is.
What they see is hyper realistic, super high quality materials,
and that's good enough for us.
The other interesting part of our fabrics is that we have these
incredibly well-crafted digital only materials that enable players
to engage with digital fabrics that they could never imagine before,
and they cannot exist in real life.
We are using UV animations, vers displacement, all kinds
of generative things, and pro.
Pro, sorry, procedural texture, generators.
Um, we are building general, by the way, in Unity, which is an amazing game engine.
And we're using their graphics, um, node based kind of shader building
tools, the shader graph, um, to build amazing digital only materials.
And people just love it.
They just like, oh my God, like I've never imagined I can wear something
or see an outfit with this effect.
And the beauty of our software.
Is that we tied all the values to sliders.
While sliders are questionable from a UX perspective right now, they are
the easiest interface that we can open up these features to the users.
So we are just simply moving sliders.
They can tweak our materials, and the materials are live.
They react to you as a user.
And I think one of the keys to success.
Is this direct feedback.
So I change something and the outfit, the material reacts to me.
That's what people can relate to because that's, that's something that makes
it unique and makes it personalized.
Then we have many other features, which I'm not gonna bore you with.
We have graphics, we have painting, um, we have vfx, and VFX has
been a really interesting one.
So by the way, we are doing quite a lot of user testing, public ones
and one-on-one sessions as well.
And we had a lot of indie designers, indie creators, digital fashion
designers testing our game because they just like to play with something
that's easy to do, even though they have amazing technical skills.
And interestingly for mostly all of them, they just laugh that they
can set their outfit on digital fire, which is very interesting.
For me.
Yeah, it's very interesting for me because I would pick a
million other things over that.
But they expressed that actually to make VFX like that they don't know
how to do it, and the current software that they're using is not possible.
Like, for example, clove 3d.
So actually the fact that we made, uh, funny things like fire or electricity,
part of a simple design program makes it super interesting for them.
So there is a lot of interesting findings.
We are also using a very cool camera plugin and we have, uh, camera movements.
So if you're not familiar with fashion photography, if you don't
know how to kind of best shoot your outfits, we have solutions and you
just need to choose a template.
All in all, we wanted to create a lot of freedom and a lot of customization,
but still within reason and limits because even with the current
features, people get easily overloaded.
You will think that if it's a creator platform, it should have all the features
possible, but actually if you think of a general user, They are not used to
customization and they're definitely not used to creative decision making.
Like for me to design an outfit or even a coffee cup, it's like an everyday job.
I love it.
I do it.
But if you stop someone on the street and you ask them, could you design a
shoe or can you choose a shoe lace color?
They actually get stressed.
So one of the biggest challenge for us is how to take the stress away.
How to kind of immerse our, yeah, how to immerse our players in a story where
they forget that it's about creativity and when they just kind of go along
with the story and they start to make creative decisions without realizing it.
I think that's the biggest challenge.
I'm not saying we cracked it, but I think we have lots of different features
like the fire or even our environments.
We have some really silly 3D environments and people start to forget that
actually they don't know how to design because it's not about design anymore.
It's about storytelling.
So in a nutshell, it has been a really interesting, um, kind of, uh,
feedback from our earlier adopters.
We just finished a huge competition with one of the leaders of the digital Fashion
Space Dress Act, and throughout the competition we got a lot of testimonials.
We didn't even ask for it.
People were just sending us.
Super amazing positive comments about how they found our platform addictive.
So enjoyable, really fun.
They were also broke it quite a few times and you know when you get,
when you get a message about, Hey guys, I think I broke your game.
Well, you know, we are happy about it because at least we know there is a bug.
But it's also a fun experience.
And one thing I've learned from, uh, my team, because I'm actually 31,
which is not old, I know, but we are working for very, very young audiences.
So actually I feel, uh, like a dinosaur sometimes.
And one thing I learned from my Gen Z marketing lead, uh,
Alex, if you're listening, um, is that actually her generation?
I'm.
I hope this is correct, but they are okay with being, um, early stage.
They are okay with your software not being perfect because they want
to be there from the beginning.
They want to support you just as much as you are supporting them, and that's
what I've actually experienced recently.
Most of the early adopters who tried Gene.
Love it, even if it has problems, even if it has imperfections and they embrace it.
So that just makes me even more excited about the future because we are all about
building a community where people feel safe, where they can share their creations
and, and, uh, get supportive feedback where you feel safe to share creativity.
And I think the basics of a community like this is based on support.
It's.
It's based on mutual respect and support.
And currently that's the feedback what we are getting.
So I think we are off to a really good start.
Kevin Horek: Yeah, that's interesting.
Well, the other thing too is you could probably, as people use the software,
you could give them more advanced features, or you could even at some point
have like an advanced toggle, right?
And like, oh yeah, games do that all the time.
As you keep playing, they get harder, right?
And they train you.
That's
Lili Eva Bartha: interesting.
Yeah.
So we do have advanced features.
We kind of took them out because they backfired because we
realized that actually Sure.
So actually we, I will reverse it.
We used to have advanced and beginning features or beginner features and we
decided to take at the beginner features because, um, I naively thought that
people will get overwhelmed by, I dunno, too many options, too many sliders.
Actually, so far our user testings act.
Prove that people are okay.
So right now, all our advanced features are exposed.
That's awesome.
But the more we work with, yeah, yeah, it's actually awesome.
Um, maybe I was underestimating the complexity or overestimating, um, but
as we are kind of working with more and more, um, stakeholders and different
partners, We get a lot of interest from enterprise and yeah, I think that will be
a really interesting route to go down on where yes, we are becoming more complex
and that will be partially user facing.
But I think if we're also turning to a, a B2B facing thing, because if
you think about a bigger company, not fashion anything, um, they want to
develop digital collections as part of a promotion or even a new product line.
And for Deb, They might not want to invest in, you know, a, a professional level
software if they want to do it in-house and they don't have the skills yet.
So if they could do it in our software, because we will be on a level that
provides them the accuracy they need, then I think it could be a very
exciting tool that enables them to maybe be more efficient, make it faster.
We also have a super exciting feature that we, uh, kind of release.
I think we will release it this year.
It's called multi-user function.
So you will be able to design the same outfit in the same room, you know, a
digital room, of course, across the world.
So multi-player creativity is something I'm really excited about.
Yes.
Kevin Horek: Very cool.
Okay, so I design something or I design a collection.
What can I do with it today and what are you hoping I can do with it tomorrow?
Lili Eva Bartha: Oh, okay.
The golden question.
Very good question.
So, um, I naively, you know, I'm always hoping that people will just be super
happy that they could make something.
But the funny thing about fashion is that it's to be worn in a way.
Some people collect it, but most people want to wear it, right?
That's the whole funny part of the industry.
So the second most, uh, kind of, uh, popular question we get
is, what can I do with it now?
Where can I wear it?
So, And that's the really interesting question about our landscape because
any kind of online platform, uh, any game, I don't even want to use the
word metaverse because that's so 2022, and it's also marketing term, but you
know, any platform where you would be represented as an avatar, obviously you
are not naked unless you're a toaster.
I was in the VR showcase space with a toaster butter avatar, and
I loved it because as a toaster you don't need to dress up.
But anyways, off topic.
Fair enough.
Um, so, um, the thing about where to wear it and how to wear it is that today the
digital platforms are not built yet in the way that if you make one step ahead,
that step will take door platforms.
So what we are doing right now, Actually, we are building this
kind of use case proof of concept partnerships step by step one by one.
For example, the winners of our Dress X competition that was announced today,
uh, will have their designs implemented in dress X's AR application, which is
basically using Snapchat's technology.
So right now we are going to translate those loops into a Snapchat filter.
I wish one day.
Tomorrow it could be automated.
So actually they go directly, you know, for example, into that app and then
boom, you can wear it as a filter, which is, by the way, a really interesting
thing because many of our users are.
Uh, if they could wear the outfit on themselves, if they could put a picture
in there because they want to see the outfit on their own physical body.
So I find augmented ability filters a really interesting direction, and I
think we will be trying to cover that together with the AVA avatar outfits.
So wearables or AVA avatar skins.
So on the filter front, we have a couple of partnerships and
we are working slowly, slowly.
The golden egg or the cherry on top would be automation, right?
So for the user, I'm a big believer of not exposing our
users to unnecessary technology.
So if you give them a 3D file, even if they designed it, they
have no clue what to do with it.
Yeah.
Fair.
And, Yeah, and the game pipelines that are open, which means that
people can take digital content to there, um, are complicated.
Honestly, just give it a go.
I, I could only 0.1 or two platforms out that are actually easy to
bring in your own content, be it an image that's a texture, or an
actual avatar, or a 3D outfit file.
So for our players, it would be very counterproductive to
suddenly just give them files.
Be it any extensions.
So what we are working really hard on is do it uh, under the hood,
like completely kind of seamlessly unnoticeable with just a click of a
button, you would be able to wear your outfits in a certain partner platform.
So right now we are working on that.
I cannot tell you who they are, but I also cannot say is gonna be tomorrow.
It's gonna take a couple of months.
Um, when we are talking about game skins or a avatars and because Ava avatars
are not just in games, um, That's a really interesting question because you
could target gaming platforms directly because they have their pipelines open.
But what we found interesting is actually targeting O avatar service providers.
So if you partner with an OT avatar platform and you enable in some
format of automation or even just getting our outfits to their platform,
then those are avatars are like messengers and they take your outfits.
To a number of different words, be it games or social platforms
across the metaverse, um, when they're compatible with one.
So basically our current steps are all about, okay, who are we partnering with?
What is the minimum technical viability that this partnership
can be more than just.
Proof of concept.
So I personally would be really kind of, uh, following our socials and
having a look on our partnership announcements because, you know,
we are literally unfolding these strategical steps right now.
I wish I could say that we can automate it, yet We cannot, but we are working
really hard on it because again, my dream is to, even if it's a handful of
platforms, but provide our users with just a one button click kind of transfer
options so that they can just head over to that platform, do whatever they want
to do, wearing what they just designed.
Kevin Horek: Yeah, that's fascinating.
The, the gameplay thing is really interesting.
Yeah, the avatar thing is really interesting.
The AR stuff's really interesting.
Yeah.
The whole, the whole space is, or, and what you guys are doing is
actually really cool, so thank you.
I'm, I'm curious though, cuz we're kind of coming to the end of the show and I
feel like we could go on another hour.
Can you maybe give us some other examples and ideas of how to explain
what people can do in the tool?
Because.
I, I get it's, they literally just need to go try the product.
Really?
But it's hard in just an audio version, right?
Yeah, yeah,
Lili Eva Bartha: yeah.
Um, right.
I mean, I would start with.
Why on in the first place would you want to do anything with a digital outfit?
Okay.
Because many people don't even know what that is or why they should
have one, or would they want to have one, let alone customize it.
So how I usually start my question is I.
If you would need a digital outfit right now, where would you go?
What would you do?
Um, most people don't know, so I would say, why you go to my platform?
But then they ask me, okay, but why do I need a digital, digital outfit?
So in general, if you want to decide how you want to look like in the digital
space, Then you want to customize it.
And there are very few platforms right now where you can do that.
So the kind of motivational drive is from the customization perspective you want.
You want to make your design your own.
Also, some people like to experiment with, what if today
I'm not buying a physical item?
What if today I do a digital item?
And then maybe that will still give me the satisfaction of something new.
So there are lots of different, like driving factors for a
player to enter our platform.
They are also, many of them are just creators who like
to play with mid journey.
So it's really interesting to see that different kind of, uh, personas have
different motivations and pain points.
And then in the software it's, it's quite straightforward really.
You have a number of different outfits.
And then you can kind of build on top of them, customize
them, make, make it your own.
I think one of the most exciting things will be is our brand partnerships.
Because if you think about an outfit, what makes it interesting
for you to engage with it?
Could it be just the design of it, or is it because it's coming from your favorite
brand and the new drop of that favorite brand is only available on my platform?
It's a new type of activation where the brand decides.
To open up their design universe and they give an opportunity for their audience to
kind of engage with the creation process.
So basically become a co-creator with the brand.
And for that, our platform is actually a wonderful tool.
So if you imagine, I don't wanna name names, but if you imagine each and them.
And they say, okay, I'm gonna make a new digital collection that's only available
in general, and we are gonna develop branded fabrics, branded graphics.
I will let my consumers or my audience engage with this new type of kind
of product and enable them to.
Kind of customize it, and then maybe some of these outfits could
be even physically manufactured.
So what the brand brings with this is it's a new type of engagement, a new
type of connection with the audience.
Something where they're building a creative community.
And I think for our target audience, who is.
Obviously, basically like Gen Z and early millennials,
community is really important.
If they can connect to a brand they like in the way that the kind
of aligns with the values, they will be more likely to kind of,
you know, stay loyal to the brand.
So one possible user journey in our software will be and could be, I
just don't wanna announce yet who the brand partner is, um, that you
can play with the branded outfits in a way that you have never before.
And, uh, you know, it's great for me.
Because when I decided to stay in fashion, I wasn't just thinking about
reinventing what kind of outfits I make, if they're real or not.
I was also thinking about my experience at high fashion brands.
I feel like mass, most high fashion brands are still very hierarchical and it lacks
transparency and it lacks democracy.
And I really have this like.
Kind of secret dream of breaking down these hierarchies and democratizing
creativity, which is a bit more extreme than democratizing a company.
I want to democratize creativity in fashion, but I think
it's a beautiful example.
If a brand is excited about this opportunity, then I get very positive
and hopeful because I believe that they are starting to understand
the way forward will be opening up.
Their design universe, uh, opening up control and involving
and inviting their audience.
And I think this could be a beginning of some beautiful kind of
transformation in the fashion industry.
Kevin Horek: No, I a hundred percent agree with you.
That's, that's really cool.
But sadly, we're outta time.
So how about we close with mentioning where people can get
more information about yourself.
The company and any other links you wanna
Lili Eva Bartha: mention?
Oh, absolutely.
So while it's really difficult to pronounce our name, I take
full responsibility for that.
Um, everyone is welcome to follow us on socials, on Instagram.
We are GN three ra, so general on Twitter, we are general.io and we often
announce our latest collaboration as jobs and partnerships and socials.
So I really encourage everyone to.
Follow us there.
Um, we also have obviously a very beautiful website, so GM three ra.io,
um, and, uh, the application is free.
All you have to do is go there, sign up, log in, and play in your browser.
Right now we are only supporting laptops or touch version Will come out quite
soon and then we are going to work.
A mobile version.
So all you need is an internet connection.
You don't need a gaming laptop, nothing else.
It's really just about your browser access and internet connection.
So, um, I hope many of, uh, the podcast listeners will get some
flare and do some digital outfits.
If you do, uh, you're welcome to tag us on socials.
If you post something and you tag general, we are super happy to repost
your creation because we want to embrace, you know, the community creations.
Kevin Horek: Very cool.
Well, Lilly, Eva, I really appreciate you taking the time outta your
day to be on the show, and I look forward to keeping in touch with you
and have a good rest of your day.
Lili Eva Bartha: Oh, thank you so much, Kimmy.
It was a pleasure to be here and thanks for the amazing questions.
Thanks very much.
Okay, bye.
Thank you.
Bye.