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Speaker 1: dot CEO. Forgotten is a production of ihonk Media and
Speaker 1: Unusual Productions. Before we start. This podcast contains accounts which
Speaker 1: some listeners will find disturbing, but without them, the story
Speaker 1: can't be fully understood. Please take care while listening. Previously
Speaker 1: on Forgotten, our speculation was that when you don't want
Speaker 1: a crime to be solved, it's because the resolution of
Speaker 1: it is going to be extremely either embarrassing to somebody
Speaker 1: in power, or it's going to come back to you.
Speaker 1: The thing is, the people who did this, they have
Speaker 1: power to remain free to not being investigated. So there's
Speaker 1: money in power behind murders. I believe lots of publication
Speaker 1: that the emblematic case of Sagradio has been solved with Sadio,
Speaker 1: that the murderer was in jail already at all. I've
Speaker 1: always said the opposite, that the authors of the crime
Speaker 1: are still free galements. For almost thirty years, young women
Speaker 1: have been murdered with brutality and impunity in Horrez. During
Speaker 1: that time, FBI agents, forensics experts, and journalists have corroborated
Speaker 1: multiple lines of investigation, but in the absence of a
Speaker 1: functioning justice system, there can be no definitive answer. For
Speaker 1: a podcast listener and certainly a podcast maker, this lack
Speaker 1: of resolution is frustrating, but for the relatives of the victims,
Speaker 1: it is a never ending trauma. It was in this
Speaker 1: context that Paula Flores and several other families created a
Speaker 1: protest group. It was called Voices without Echo. Grabbed our
Speaker 1: attention because when girls disappear, when they ask for help
Speaker 1: and no one hears them, which no one knows anything,
Speaker 1: no one hears anything. I posted flyers with strong messages
Speaker 1: we want our daughter's assassins and things like that if
Speaker 1: girls disappeared. We also helped to put up missing posters.
Speaker 1: We began to fight as a group with After Sir
Speaker 1: Garrio went missing, Paula took matters into her own hands.
Speaker 1: She led the initial search, and when Sir Garrio wasn't found,
Speaker 1: she appealed to the state Attorney general for a real investigation. Finally,
Speaker 1: she interviewed the prime suspect herself, but Paula was never
Speaker 1: able to unmask the people she called the authors of
Speaker 1: the crime, and the flies and posters began to feel
Speaker 1: like a temporary response to an entrenched problem. So the group,
Speaker 1: including Paula's daughter Yea, decided to call out the femicides
Speaker 1: with a more durable symbol. Doing all that, on one occasion,
Speaker 1: Gear thought why not have a protest, but a permanent
Speaker 1: one is She thought of a black cross with a
Speaker 1: pink background as a symbol for the girls. Pink background
Speaker 1: representing the women, and the black cross for the morning
Speaker 1: of their loss in Mars. In March nineteen ninety nine,
Speaker 1: we painted the first cross. Those crosses are now unmissable,
Speaker 1: painted on lampposts all over Huirez. They are themselves an
Speaker 1: echo of the missing women that reverberates around the city,
Speaker 1: and Paula told us there was one place in particular
Speaker 1: she felt that it was important to paint one on
Speaker 1: the city jail, which, as far as she's concerned, has
Speaker 1: never housed the people responsible for Cigario's murder. I painted
Speaker 1: that cross. I had to fight with a police officer
Speaker 1: who wouldn't let me. He said no, that I couldn't
Speaker 1: paint it there. Are you crazy? I said, yes, maybe
Speaker 1: I am. It's clear that you haven't had a daughter
Speaker 1: of yours murdered. That gives me the right to paint
Speaker 1: this cross here because you haven't done anything. The crosses
Speaker 1: in Juarez are a constant reminder that the authorities have
Speaker 1: failed to stop and solve the femicides or hold the
Speaker 1: killers to account. They hint at the corruption and complicity
Speaker 1: that mark this story, even if they don't say it
Speaker 1: out loud, and as a result, the crosses aren't popular
Speaker 1: with the city's officials. When Pope Francis visited Juarez in
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, the government painted over several of the crosses
Speaker 1: along his planned route, But the mothers do not permit
Speaker 1: the symbols to be raised or their daughters to be forgotten.
Speaker 1: Each year, Paula goes out to repaint faded crosses in
Speaker 1: memory of Sagario. Personally, what I would do was on
Speaker 1: April sixteenth, the date of her disappearance. I'd go and
Speaker 1: retouch them, and I'd invite people to support us. For me,
Speaker 1: it's to keep denouncing my daughter's case, the injustice she suffered.
Speaker 1: I think that in some way it keeps her memory alive.
Speaker 1: When I hear Power speaking, I can't help thinking about
Speaker 1: the word metito. In Huirez. It's often used to explain
Speaker 1: how the drug cartel gets people complicit in small ways
Speaker 1: and then never lets them go. But it was increasingly
Speaker 1: clear that these murders make unexpected people metito. The journalists
Speaker 1: who can't put the story down, and especially the families
Speaker 1: who never get closure, and the line between healthy remembrance
Speaker 1: and more problematic compulsion to repeat can vanish in the sand.
Speaker 1: So how does Sagaria's death affect the rest of the
Speaker 1: Flores family and who ultimately is responsible for her murder?
Speaker 1: I'm al and i'm this is forgotten. The women of
Speaker 1: Baramo Laera known known ste Hala Felicia. We've had so
Speaker 1: many theories moniquer about who's killing the women in Juarez,
Speaker 1: from one or more serial killers to La Ligna Corps,
Speaker 1: the cartel, even powerful industrialists, and yet none of these
Speaker 1: people were ever prosecuted, and the crimes have been going
Speaker 1: on for thirty years. How does this all fit together
Speaker 1: for you? As we've been going along in this series,
Speaker 1: we've presented these possibilities individually. We have experts and investigators
Speaker 1: attesting to the involvement of serial killers, drug cartels, empresarios.
Speaker 1: But it's important to note that the Howadis femicides also
Speaker 1: include victims of domestic violence. Their killers were likely intimate
Speaker 1: partners who covered up their own crime by making it
Speaker 1: look like another serial sexual murder. Other women were themselves
Speaker 1: involved in the drug trade or had a connection to
Speaker 1: someone who was. That said, you've also told me that
Speaker 1: the situation hasn't been stable or constant for thirty years,
Speaker 1: and even if the murders have the same fundamental drivers,
Speaker 1: they're most likely committed by different people over time. How
Speaker 1: do you explain how the femicides indhuires have changed since
Speaker 1: the nineties. The trajectory of femicide in Waddis is that
Speaker 1: it's come in waves over the last thirty years. Beginning
Speaker 1: in the early nineteen nineties, was one strong wave. In
Speaker 1: the early two thousands came a second strong wave, the
Speaker 1: apex of which was the cotton Field murders, and then
Speaker 1: in the later two thousands. Beginning in two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: you see a third wave of femicide come on. And
Speaker 1: so by then, Diana, I had stopped going to Juarez,
Speaker 1: and Alfredo Corcado was mostly in Mexico City, and I
Speaker 1: was just beginning to test my wings as a radio
Speaker 1: reporter as this drug war was raging. In these waves,
Speaker 1: the first one in the early nineties that culminated with
Speaker 1: those mass graves being discovered in nineteen ninety five and
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six, the second being in the early two thousands,
Speaker 1: which is when Lily Alle hundred disappeared, and which culminated
Speaker 1: in the discovery of the mass grave at the Cotton Field.
Speaker 1: Tell me about this third wave and your reporting on it.
Speaker 1: I'll never forget the moment when I got the first
Speaker 1: tip that something was happening to women in Houais yet again.
Speaker 1: It was December two thousand and eight. I was at
Speaker 1: a protest of doctors in Huadis, near the university, and
Speaker 1: as I was turning to leave, some college students walked
Speaker 1: up to me and handed me a missing person's flyer,
Speaker 1: and on that flyer was the black and white photo
Speaker 1: of a young woman. She had dark, curly hair, and
Speaker 1: a soft smile. I asked when she went missing? It
Speaker 1: had been just twelve days. I just remember this sinking
Speaker 1: feeling in my gut, thinking, oh no, not again. And
Speaker 1: from that moment on, more women continued to go missing
Speaker 1: in just a short amount of time. Many were last
Speaker 1: seen in downtown waters. In other words, the same pattern
Speaker 1: we've seen before. So that's when I stepped in and
Speaker 1: started reporting, and once again these disappearances culminated in a
Speaker 1: mass grave being discovered. What happened that fast forward to
Speaker 1: late twenty eleven. A rancher is on his horse going
Speaker 1: to check on his land out in the rugged mountainous
Speaker 1: desert on the outskirts of Juarez, and they're riding along
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, the horse stops and kind
Speaker 1: of seems spooked, and the rancher looks down and sees
Speaker 1: some bone fragments. He gets off his horse, takes a
Speaker 1: closer look, and realizes he's found a clandestine graveyard. He
Speaker 1: gets back to his ranch, calls the police, and it
Speaker 1: turns out that this was a graveyard of women's bones.
Speaker 1: Eleven and all. Many of these women were women whose
Speaker 1: missing flyers were posted all over downtown, some whose mothers
Speaker 1: I interviewed, including the mother of a seventeen year old
Speaker 1: girl named up I had gone to interview her mom,
Speaker 1: Susanna months just sixteen days after Lupitita went missing. Susanna
Speaker 1: showed me her daughter's room. All her things were there,
Speaker 1: her backpack, her clothes. Lupita was last seen downtown, and
Speaker 1: Susanna had been going there almost daily, asking around posting
Speaker 1: missing flyers, and people downtown told her something very disturbing.
Speaker 1: Susanna said, They told me she's probably being sold, that
Speaker 1: there's an organized group downtown that's taking them. It's not
Speaker 1: just my daughter, Susanna told me, it's more. More girls
Speaker 1: are missing. A friend who worked at a fabric store
Speaker 1: downtown reported seeing Lupitha cradling a pair of new tennis
Speaker 1: shoes in her arms. He said he last saw Lupeta
Speaker 1: rushing down Mint like so many other young women before.
Speaker 1: Lupeta was last seen on Mina Street. That's the central
Speaker 1: bust interchange in Huirez, which has all kinds of brothels
Speaker 1: and nightclubs nearby. After our own trip to downtown, Sandra Rodriguez,
Speaker 1: the Huires journalist at Aldiario, warned us never to go back.
Speaker 1: That's where a lot of the girls were seen for
Speaker 1: the last time. We were right there. Ye ye, there's
Speaker 1: a very very very dangerous place of the city. Yeah. Oh,
Speaker 1: that's had certainly a song where they have lookout. Absolutely
Speaker 1: whose day plus us take us the gangs. That's how
Speaker 1: they controlled the area through into mileage. Sundra also reported
Speaker 1: on the third wave of femicides, and she explained that
Speaker 1: Los Aztecas is across border criminal enterprise that began life
Speaker 1: as an Elpasso prison gang. They now work with the
Speaker 1: cartel to traffic drugs and control various other illegal businesses
Speaker 1: in downtown Quirez. What do you think the Aztecas lookouts
Speaker 1: or thinking when they're looking at us, but you might
Speaker 1: be investigating them. I think that's their concern, certainly. I
Speaker 1: think that they were protecting their women exploitation business because
Speaker 1: you couldn't go through Downtarrea without being chasten or follow business.
Speaker 1: This was the key word in a new line of investigation,
Speaker 1: and according to Sundra's reporting, many of the victims in
Speaker 1: the third wave of femicides were trafficked for profit. When
Speaker 1: we were last in downtown Quirez, we saw missing posters
Speaker 1: with the faces of young women who disappeared within the
Speaker 1: last few weeks, and that raised the haunting question, was
Speaker 1: it possible those women were still alive and perhaps even
Speaker 1: in the area we're walking around downtown. What as you
Speaker 1: know where they went missing. There's so many people, and
Speaker 1: you think they're here somewhere. Why can't why can't we
Speaker 1: find them? I sometimes wished I was a man and
Speaker 1: I could go into the brothels and just look for
Speaker 1: the women. I have tried. I have tell me. I
Speaker 1: tried to get into with a friend. They were two
Speaker 1: guys in the front door. No, you cannot get into.
Speaker 1: Why you cannot? Just like that? They were two guys.
Speaker 1: I didn't see if they were armed, but I thought,
Speaker 1: what kind of things do you have? Insight that you
Speaker 1: have two guys protecting your dark so they have the carls.
Speaker 1: Sandre couldn't get in to that brothel, But there was
Speaker 1: another location where women were allegedly being held after being abducted.
Speaker 1: It was called Hotel Verde, and it was essentially a
Speaker 1: safe house for Los Aztecas, a place where they store weapons,
Speaker 1: sold drugs, and traffic women. It was located near the
Speaker 1: downtown and not far from the border with El Paso,
Speaker 1: Sandra interviewed a young woman whose mother sold food to
Speaker 1: the clients at the hotel. The girl that he was
Speaker 1: interviewing told me, my mother found out that they were
Speaker 1: just teenagers being exploited, and I said, we didn't your
Speaker 1: mother do something? I mean call the police, to whom
Speaker 1: there was a lot of militaries, the troops, further police,
Speaker 1: municipal police, they were all consuming the girls. There There
Speaker 1: is no place to go and announce this, you know.
Speaker 1: It was heartbreaking for me to know that these girls
Speaker 1: when they were alive, were seen by are a lot
Speaker 1: of people in downtown horns while the mothers were trying
Speaker 1: to look to find them. And I've already connect this too.
Speaker 1: I mean, where are you going to go to announce this?
Speaker 1: They are there. They know if the people who are
Speaker 1: supposed to be protecting you are actually involved in the
Speaker 1: exploitation of the women. According to this mother who was
Speaker 1: bringing food in, yes, yeah, where do you turn for help?
Speaker 1: I think that was the most chocking part. According to Sandra,
Speaker 1: Despite the fate of women like Lupita being an open secret,
Speaker 1: the authorities failed to solve the crimes. There was a
Speaker 1: trial in twenty fifteen and there were convictions, but at
Speaker 1: best the jailed men was seen as low level operatives
Speaker 1: of Los Astecas, and at worst as yet more scapegoats.
Speaker 1: Once again, the authorities were accused of not just being incompetent,
Speaker 1: but of being complicit. And in an environment while getting
Speaker 1: away with murderer is so easy, femicide has become normalized.
Speaker 1: Sandra told us that these days, another missing woman in
Speaker 1: Houarez doesn't even make the front page of the city's newspaper.
Speaker 1: It became like more part of my normal life or
Speaker 1: everybody's life. But yeah, the killing skipon and the disappearance
Speaker 1: is skip on, happening in the promised squares. This is
Speaker 1: not the country where I grew And now we're just
Speaker 1: to the bileness, really impunity and embarriscare of thinking how
Speaker 1: fast you can go backwards in society. While on a
Speaker 1: Nieman fellowship at Harvard, Sandra wrote a book called La
Speaker 1: fabric The Crime Factory. In it, she traces a line
Speaker 1: from the permanent poverty of the Maculadora workers to the
Speaker 1: murders of women to the metastasis of organized crime in
Speaker 1: the city. I was trying to explain, so to express
Speaker 1: how killing was turning into a business. Yeah. And I
Speaker 1: think that metaphor the crime factory, relates to the industrial
Speaker 1: character of the city, but also the criminal industry and
Speaker 1: trying to express that crime. It's obviously not just a
Speaker 1: social issue, but also it is fueled by economic forces.
Speaker 1: I think it's a city with a lot of suffering.
Speaker 1: The people is completely exploited. The people doesn't make enough
Speaker 1: to live even when they work the whole day. And
Speaker 1: I think it's this phase of globalization that you can
Speaker 1: see here. Immediately. The whole country depends on America, but
Speaker 1: in the city you can see it, like in matter
Speaker 1: of minutes, how we are connected, connected economically, but separated
Speaker 1: by a border. Sandra remembers driving at night through the
Speaker 1: Franklin Mountains in Texas and looking down into the valley
Speaker 1: at Juarez and El Paso, so you can see exactly
Speaker 1: where the line between the two countries was. Because the
Speaker 1: Mexican side was so much more densely populated and thus
Speaker 1: brightly illuminated, the lights appeared to sundra like wave breaking
Speaker 1: against the wall. I was looking at the border from
Speaker 1: very high you can see the line, the border, and
Speaker 1: then a lot of flights. In my view it was
Speaker 1: like the whole pressure of the whole rest of the
Speaker 1: continent trying to reach American then again stopped right at
Speaker 1: the border, which is Wires, and I thought, the city
Speaker 1: can contain this much poverty or violence. I mean, all
Speaker 1: Latin Americans is coming for some reason. That broke my heart,
Speaker 1: like this city cannot hold this and it's going to explode.
Speaker 1: No city in the world can hold a whole pressure.
Speaker 1: This pressure turned into violence, This pressure turned into legal business,
Speaker 1: This pressure turns into very bad conditions of living for
Speaker 1: the people. I just felt that. I start to cry
Speaker 1: and cry walking around Whoires, seeing the crosses and the
Speaker 1: missing posters. The femicides can appear as a self contained tragedy,
Speaker 1: but from a vantage point up on high it becomes
Speaker 1: clear how the city is positioned in relation to the
Speaker 1: US creates the conditions for its violence. When we come back,
Speaker 1: we look at how US financial institutions have been washing
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Speaker 1: podcast to learn more. So, there was this third wave
Speaker 1: of femicide Monica that involved human trafficking at Bte Verte
Speaker 1: and other locations, and that's something that you and Sandra
Speaker 1: both reported on. How does that relate to Alfredo Corcillo
Speaker 1: and what he reported about La Ligne and the cartel parties.
Speaker 1: The evolution of femicide, I guess you could say that
Speaker 1: it began as a way to strengthen the bonds between
Speaker 1: organized crime. Then it evolved to a kind of sick
Speaker 1: form of celebration and sport, and then it became a
Speaker 1: means of profit. It became a business, just like everything else,
Speaker 1: the drugs and the manufacturing. This third wave of femicide
Speaker 1: involved women being sexually brutalized over the course of weeks
Speaker 1: or months multiple times. You know, they found if we
Speaker 1: can keep them, we can make some money here. So
Speaker 1: ultimately it sounds like although serial killers and even perhaps
Speaker 1: wealthy industrialists took advantage of this atmosphere of impunity in Huarez,
Speaker 1: where violence against women up to and including murder was permissible,
Speaker 1: the heart of this is really organized crime. Organized crime
Speaker 1: and drug trafficking is at the root of all of
Speaker 1: Mexico's problems, and until that gets resolved, nothing is going
Speaker 1: to get better. I don't care how many goodhearted American
Speaker 1: judges and attorneys come down and do training sessions. The
Speaker 1: ability to corrupt police and the judicial system is still there,
Speaker 1: and until you can get rid of that, nothing is
Speaker 1: going to get better. That problem is largely out of
Speaker 1: Mexico's hands when the demand persists on the American side,
Speaker 1: and the US has been more than willing to pour
Speaker 1: billions of dollars into the law enforcement side trying to
Speaker 1: stop the drugs from coming over, and now it's clear
Speaker 1: to me, I mean, I mean that is an unwinnable fight.
Speaker 1: You have to address demand. Demand for illegal drugs in
Speaker 1: the US creates the revenue on which Laalna, Los Astecas,
Speaker 1: the Sinaloa Cartel, and the rest of Mexico's organized criminal
Speaker 1: enterprises depend. Understand more about the financial underpinnings of all
Speaker 1: this violence, we called Ed Bulliami. He's a British journalist
Speaker 1: who made his name covering the war in Bosnia in
Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties, as well as the First and Second
Speaker 1: Gulf Wars, and he's also reported extensively from Juarez. He
Speaker 1: wrote a book called A Mexica War along the Borderline,
Speaker 1: and while working on it, he spent time with the
Speaker 1: likes of Dina Washington Valdez, Sandra Rodriguez, and Paula Flores.
Speaker 1: I realized, actually that I first interviewed Paula Flores twenty
Speaker 1: years ago, so it's two decades now reporting this atrocity.
Speaker 1: You impunity is a hallmark of those twenty years. In
Speaker 1: the course of his reporting, Ed came to view young
Speaker 1: women like Sagrio as the casualties of a type of
Speaker 1: conflict that he never encountered elsewhere. I think what interested me,
Speaker 1: in what has appalled me and confused me, is that
Speaker 1: were Iraq and Bosnia were wars. I mean you and
Speaker 1: shells landing, cowering in cellars, columns of refugees through the
Speaker 1: dust of the stone. These are wars. And yet if
Speaker 1: we take the sort of that experience into Mexico, what
Speaker 1: have we got. We've got a death toll since two
Speaker 1: thousand and six in Mexico which is three times that
Speaker 1: of Bosnia, one hundred thousand in Bosnia, three hundred thousand
Speaker 1: in Mexico. We've got, perhaps most appallingly of all, in
Speaker 1: its different way, a number of disappeared, vanished people leaving
Speaker 1: families who have no body to bury in the limbo
Speaker 1: of disappearance. And yet we've got this situation in a
Speaker 1: country that is irresistibly wonderful, where the football league functions
Speaker 1: very well and is great to watch, where the markets
Speaker 1: are open and vibrant. It's a new kind of war
Speaker 1: in what is supposed to be time. Things look normal,
Speaker 1: but they're not. It's a completely brutalized society. It has
Speaker 1: the darkest shadows in many ways of one's whole career
Speaker 1: as a war correspondent, According to Ed, the root cause
Speaker 1: of this new kind of war is drug trafficking and
Speaker 1: the cartels who've profited from it. I mean there is
Speaker 1: no ring around narco violence now, I mean narco violence
Speaker 1: becomes domestic violence, becomes extortion, becomes trafficking, becomes sex, trafficking
Speaker 1: becomes migrant smuggling. You know, there will come a time,
Speaker 1: I think when actually drugs is probably a minority interest
Speaker 1: of these cartels because the expansion of their business is
Speaker 1: so big within Mexico business. There's that word again. Sandra
Speaker 1: used it to describe the exploitation of women in the
Speaker 1: third wave of femicides, but it's also the key to
Speaker 1: understanding why the war in Mexico is so amorphets. The
Speaker 1: conflict is not about political identity or national boundaries. It's
Speaker 1: about profits. And to understand the cartels, you have to
Speaker 1: think of them as commercial enterprises for whom violence is
Speaker 1: a tool of domination. Cartels are corporations. They're not opponents
Speaker 1: of our financial and economic capitalist system. They're not even
Speaker 1: pastigious of it, are actually innovators of it. Pablo Escobar,
Speaker 1: he was doing Pan American duty free trade long before
Speaker 1: laughter or Bill Clinton had the idea and cocaine. You
Speaker 1: can flood the market without a drop in price. You
Speaker 1: can solve the good stuff to bankers, politicians, lawyers and journalists,
Speaker 1: and the ship in the ghetto to be cooked as crack.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a perfect commodity. The one problem with
Speaker 1: cocaine the sums generated are too big to be laundered
Speaker 1: through small businesses or stored in stash houses, and that
Speaker 1: requires innovation. The profits are so vast, hundreds of billions
Speaker 1: of dollars. Now, you can't go around Mexico spending that
Speaker 1: out of a back of a truck. No, you have
Speaker 1: to bank it. You have to find a banker, and
Speaker 1: a bank and a lawyer who's prepared to get that
Speaker 1: money into the system. To get their profits into the
Speaker 1: legitimate economy, the cartel needed help from establishment partners. Ed
Speaker 1: became obsessed by uncovering who they were, and in two
Speaker 1: eleven he broke a story under the headline how a
Speaker 1: big US bank launched billions from Mexico's murderous drug gangs.
Speaker 1: The bank was wor Covier, and once again the story
Speaker 1: began with somebody who wanted justice. I got a whistleblower
Speaker 1: from inside the banker, a man, a brave man called
Speaker 1: Martin Woods to tell me the whole story over seven
Speaker 1: long sessions and published it up until two thousand and eight.
Speaker 1: Why Covier was one of the biggest banks in the US,
Speaker 1: but in the aftermath of the financial crisis, it was
Speaker 1: sold to Wells Fargo, which is now the world's fourth
Speaker 1: largest bank. Martin Woods worked at WA Covier and his
Speaker 1: job was to spot money laundering. So when Woods noticed
Speaker 1: a series of dubious transactions at currency exchanges in Mexico,
Speaker 1: he started issuing suspicious activity reports to try and stop them,
Speaker 1: but then a manager quietly advised him to quote develop
Speaker 1: a better understanding of Mexico. Undeterred, Woods continued to flag
Speaker 1: more suspicious transactions coming out of Mexico, but instead of
Speaker 1: heeding his warnings, the bank decided to discipline him. Wacovia
Speaker 1: claimed that Woods had exposed them to quote potential regulatory
Speaker 1: jeopardy and quote large fines. Wacovia had been moving an
Speaker 1: inefftable amount of money that actually belonged directly and was
Speaker 1: provably flowing from the Sonulo a cartel, the mind boggling
Speaker 1: sum of three hundred and seventy two billion dollars. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's the GDP of a nation in some parts of
Speaker 1: the world. Criminal proceedings in the US were eventually brought
Speaker 1: against Weakvia for failing to quote maintain an effective anti
Speaker 1: money laundering program. The federal prosecutor argued that quote were
Speaker 1: Covia's blatant disregard for our banking laws gave international cocaine
Speaker 1: cartels a virtual carte blanche to finance their operations. In
Speaker 1: other words, Wakovia was more interested in its own profits
Speaker 1: than preventing organized crime from entering the banking system. They
Speaker 1: ultimately settled out of court for one hundred and sixty
Speaker 1: million dollars, a tiny fraction of the launded sums. The
Speaker 1: amount was paid by the new parent bank, Wells Fargo,
Speaker 1: who had recently been bailed out by US taxpayers. Now,
Speaker 1: the reason we can talk about this without fear of
Speaker 1: the Wells Fargo legal department is because Wavia got court,
Speaker 1: admitted it, and settled out of court. Too big to fail,
Speaker 1: too big to jail for sure. Edge reports that as
Speaker 1: were Covier was being investigated, another bank, HSBC stepped in
Speaker 1: and filled the void to launder money for the Sina
Speaker 1: lower cartel with HSBC. It's even more extraordinary because the
Speaker 1: narcos were actually going to branches of HSBC in Mexico
Speaker 1: with boxes specially made to fit through the teller's windows,
Speaker 1: filled with hundreds of dollars in cash, be given a
Speaker 1: receipt for the amount, without the teller actually opening the
Speaker 1: box to look what was inside. And yet we didn't
Speaker 1: know anything about this. The Financial Times covered the settlement
Speaker 1: out of court with the following line, Mexico was becoming
Speaker 1: a compliance nightmare for HSBC full stop. Ye oh, all
Speaker 1: these little dark people abusing our good bank. Once again.
Speaker 1: No one goes to jail, no one's even prosecuted or charged.
Speaker 1: A few apologies, wrap on the knuckle again. Not all
Speaker 1: of the media was as forgiving. The New York Times
Speaker 1: described HSBC as quote too big to indict and reported
Speaker 1: that the Justice Department decided against prosecution because they were
Speaker 1: worried about quote, destabilizing the global financial system. I've tried
Speaker 1: to make it my business to report to the best
Speaker 1: of my ability on the impunity in our system whereby
Speaker 1: the blood money the fat cats, who basically face absolutely
Speaker 1: no sanction whatsoever for taking these vast profits and swilling
Speaker 1: them around the so called legal economy. Whoever paid Psycho
Speaker 1: Flores Killer to do what they did to her is
Speaker 1: missing an action so far as the justice system is concerned,
Speaker 1: as is HSBC. But there is a line, there is
Speaker 1: a direct line from that's atrocity right up to the
Speaker 1: boardrooms of Wall Street. In the game of joining the dots,
Speaker 1: there's only two dots to join. The drug cartels exist
Speaker 1: to make money, and they spend that money corrupting officials
Speaker 1: and creating a reign of terror in Mexico, largely in
Speaker 1: order to make more money, including from trafficking young women.
Speaker 1: And according to ed, one of the ways to prevent
Speaker 1: this from happening would be to aggressively prosecute international money laundering.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that peace is better than war, and
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that you could actually do something to
Speaker 1: abate this appalling new kind of war if you simply
Speaker 1: throttle the money, if you actually just made it not
Speaker 1: lucrative or impossible to bank this money. And as my whistlebler,
Speaker 1: Martin Wood said from my Covia, if you don't get that,
Speaker 1: you're missing the story. The United States Justice Department effectively
Speaker 1: chose to ignore that part of the story because they
Speaker 1: were worried it could trigger another financial crisis. Meanwhile, Martin Woods,
Speaker 1: the whistleblower, says that it was impossible for him to
Speaker 1: get a job at another bank after exposing the money
Speaker 1: laundry activity at WA Covia. And it is these figures
Speaker 1: who speak out in pursuit of justice who motivate its work.
Speaker 1: War journalism is it's quite a weird profession. Some people
Speaker 1: report conflict because deep down they quite like it, because
Speaker 1: it gives them a bit of a bit of a buzz.
Speaker 1: I'm the opposite to that. I get terrified. I have PTSD.
Speaker 1: I hate it. I have a sort of shortcoming whereby
Speaker 1: when I'm reporting something, I try to think myself into it.
Speaker 1: I can't just write down an account of what was
Speaker 1: done to Parla Floris's daughter without trying to imagine what
Speaker 1: it must have been like to be her in that
Speaker 1: room with those people, you know, who have eyes, who
Speaker 1: had faces, who she could see, presumably the blades they
Speaker 1: were about to apply and applied a body. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's not a very psychology benefitsing to do, but I
Speaker 1: think it's professionally necessary. But what you get is the
Speaker 1: addiction to the people who were against it, because it's
Speaker 1: a humbling thing. Being with the soldiers in Bosnia, the
Speaker 1: gorillas who were trying to oppose the genocide was itself
Speaker 1: uplifting and humbling. Being with the mothers of the women
Speaker 1: to whom this was done leaves you oddly enriched in
Speaker 1: a way. I mean, it's the last line of Samuel
Speaker 1: Coleridge's Ancient Mariner, A sadder and a wiser man, he
Speaker 1: woke the morrow morn. That is what one should aim
Speaker 1: to be as a combat journalist, sadder and wiser. And
Speaker 1: your job is to make other people sadder, and the whistleblowers,
Speaker 1: the truth seekers, the mothers. Painting across or defending a
Speaker 1: scapegooded bus driver, or even calling out non compliance with
Speaker 1: money laundering regulation. Any of these actions can cost you
Speaker 1: anything from your livelihood to your life, and none of
Speaker 1: them is sufficient to produce the kind of systemic change
Speaker 1: required to stop femicide. But that doesn't diminish the importance
Speaker 1: of bearing witness, of making the invisible visible, from the
Speaker 1: pocket of your genes to the bank card in that pocket.
Speaker 1: As the FBI agent Frank Evans put it best, you
Speaker 1: can kill me, but you can't eat me. When we
Speaker 1: come back, Monica returns to Juarez for a final conversation
Speaker 1: with powder Flores about Sir Gario's legacy and the price
Speaker 1: of activism. During the month of April, shout the buy one,
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Speaker 1: local Safeway store for more great deals in the health
Speaker 1: and beauty aisles. What is Circle? First of all, it's
Speaker 1: a beautiful shape. It's consistent a community. It's meant to
Speaker 1: be inclusive the globe. At Circle, we build USDC a
Speaker 1: digital dollar that's actually dollar backed one to one. We're
Speaker 1: building a future where money will travel at the speed
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Speaker 1: meets USDC. Visit Circle dot com slash podcast. Hi there,
Speaker 1: I'm doctor John White, WebMD's chief medical officer and host
Speaker 1: of the spotlight on series from our Health Discovered podcast.
Speaker 1: In this special episode, we'll hear about living a fulfilling
Speaker 1: with chronic cart failure, a condition that doesn't have to
Speaker 1: be as scary as it sounds. I was outside shoveling
Speaker 1: snow and I noticed I was coughing up flim unbeknownst
Speaker 1: to me, I left a trail of blood behind me,
Speaker 1: and I was one sign. Now. Of course, prior to
Speaker 1: I was excessively gaining weight, I had issues breathing, sleep APNA,
Speaker 1: I had a lot of those classic signs. My legs
Speaker 1: were beginning to retain fluid, and I was having heart
Speaker 1: palt patients. My heart would be really excessively fast and so.
Speaker 1: But ultimately it was when that occurred that I thought
Speaker 1: something was seriously wrong. Listen to Health Discovered on the
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Before we
Speaker 1: concluded this series, I knew I had to have one
Speaker 1: last conversation with Paula. I wanted her to tell me
Speaker 1: about what happened to her husband, Jessus. Femicide is largely
Speaker 1: viewed as the realm of women. It's something that happens
Speaker 1: to women that hurts women, and those fighting against femicide
Speaker 1: are primarily women. We focus on the pain of the mothers,
Speaker 1: but rarely do we talk about fathers. So despite escalating
Speaker 1: drug violence, a record heat wave, and a raging pandemic,
Speaker 1: I traveled to Hawadis again. But before we began, I
Speaker 1: asked Paula she was ready to have the conversation. I
Speaker 1: knew it wouldn't be an easy one, Okay. I started
Speaker 1: by asking Paula to tell me how she met her husband. Well,
Speaker 1: I was eighteen. Him in a farming village near the
Speaker 1: little town where I lived. My sister took me. She
Speaker 1: asked me to go with her to a dance. We
Speaker 1: went walking. It was two hours on foot, so that's
Speaker 1: when I met him. From Elsto to his village. We
Speaker 1: walked together talking and he told me that he wanted
Speaker 1: me to dance with him at the dance. In fact,
Speaker 1: that night I only danced with him if so. From
Speaker 1: there he started to fall in love and we only
Speaker 1: saw each other for a short time. I knew him
Speaker 1: for less than a month. When I married him, Paula
Speaker 1: was just eighteen and je Sus was twenty five. He
Speaker 1: visited her at home twice, and on the third visit
Speaker 1: he proposed. Paula accepted, packed a few things, and left
Speaker 1: with him that same day. It was sudden, but Paula
Speaker 1: was living with an abusive stepfather and saw it as
Speaker 1: a potential escape. I think these things are predestined, you know.
Speaker 1: For my stepfather, he was very harsh with us. He
Speaker 1: wouldn't let me go out. He would hit me a lot.
Speaker 1: Jus also came from an abusive household, and together he
Speaker 1: and Paula formed the kind of loving family they'd yearned for. Juie,
Speaker 1: their only son, was their firstborn. Then they had six daughters,
Speaker 1: guille Juana, Sagrario, Lupe, Claudia, and Alicia. From the moment
Speaker 1: I met I felt protected. He would take care of me.
Speaker 1: He was always worrying about me, even in the street.
Speaker 1: He wouldn't let me walk on the traffic side of
Speaker 1: the sidewalk. He was a really responsible man, an exemplary father.
Speaker 1: From my children, he never hit them to this day.
Speaker 1: Now that they're all grown, they still have fond memories
Speaker 1: of him. In their home state of Durango, Jesus worked
Speaker 1: as a lumberjack, disappearing for days at a time to
Speaker 1: the nearby mountains. Baala would send him off with a
Speaker 1: batch of homemade Dorotheas the family was poor, Guille, the
Speaker 1: oldest sister, recalls erasing her notebooks at the end of
Speaker 1: a school year so she could reuse them the following year.
Speaker 1: In what Is, Jesus saw an opportunity to make a
Speaker 1: better life for his family. He went to work at
Speaker 1: the factory alongside his children, and then two years after
Speaker 1: their arrival, Sagrario disappeared. When well, when our daughter went missing,
Speaker 1: he went looking for her along with the rest of
Speaker 1: the family. From the very first night, I think as
Speaker 1: the head of the family, as the father of our daughters,
Speaker 1: he showed that he was going to find her. He
Speaker 1: would say, I promise you that we're going to find
Speaker 1: our daughter. But Jesus could not keep his promise. Instead,
Speaker 1: fourteen days later, he walked into the hoattiest morgue to
Speaker 1: claim what authorities said was his daughter's lifeless body. As
Speaker 1: soon as the family search for Sagario ended, their search
Speaker 1: for justice began, this time with Paola in the lead.
Speaker 1: His who stuck with her, following alongside when she broke
Speaker 1: into the Attorney General's meeting. He marched with her in protests,
Speaker 1: combed the desert looking for remains, and painted crosses on
Speaker 1: lamp posts. I would say to him, let's go, dear,
Speaker 1: and he would never say no. He would always say
Speaker 1: let's go. Even though I was the one who always talked,
Speaker 1: he would never speak up. One day he told me,
Speaker 1: he said, I don't talk. I don't say anything, because
Speaker 1: it's enough to hear you speak. He said, very shaky,
Speaker 1: I feel bad. I can't talk. Although mostly silent, his
Speaker 1: Who's was one of the few fathers at the front lines,
Speaker 1: most have to continue working to support their families during
Speaker 1: the fight for justice. For Sagrario J who started getting
Speaker 1: harassed in his own neighborhood. He was even beaten by
Speaker 1: a couple strangers on his way back home from a
Speaker 1: Hamburger stand. Came back to the truck. There were three
Speaker 1: men waiting for him. They were dressed normally in jeans
Speaker 1: and T shirts. He told me they started asking me
Speaker 1: for money. He told them I don't have anything, so
Speaker 1: they beat him up pretty badly. He turns out they
Speaker 1: didn't rob him of anything, not his watch, not the
Speaker 1: little money he had, nothing. The only thing he lost
Speaker 1: was an address book, a small one he fit in
Speaker 1: his pocket, and there he had our home telephone number.
Speaker 1: He had telephone numbers of other activists. After that, I
Speaker 1: started getting calls at night to our home phone. The
Speaker 1: men started making those calls to say they needed sex services.
Speaker 1: The activism, the harassment, the grief, it all took its
Speaker 1: toll on the entire family. His sus began drinking more
Speaker 1: than usual, and neighbors warned Paula that he was having
Speaker 1: an affair. His sus had told Paula that a woman
Speaker 1: a neighbor had been provoking him. He'd always complained to me.
Speaker 1: He would curse, I've fucking had it with her. Wherever
Speaker 1: I go, she finds me. Paula says this went on
Speaker 1: for years. His whus swore on his children that he
Speaker 1: remained loyal to Paula. One day, I asked him to
Speaker 1: take me shopping downtown. He said, sure, let me just
Speaker 1: go visit with a tailor first. So he got in
Speaker 1: the shower and in the meanwhile, I ironed his clothes.
Speaker 1: When he got out of the shower, he came to
Speaker 1: me and held me. He told me he loved me
Speaker 1: very much, and he told me he wanted to take
Speaker 1: my breath with him. My mouth hurt. He kissed me
Speaker 1: so much and he kept telling me, I want to
Speaker 1: take your breath with me. I didn't understand what he meant.
Speaker 1: After that, he said goodbye. He stood at the door
Speaker 1: and turned toward me, and I told him, my eyes
Speaker 1: that watch you leave, when will they see you return?
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I said that, yes, and then
Speaker 1: he left. Baula got into the shower herself and got
Speaker 1: ready to go out. Then at two o'clock the phone rang.
Speaker 1: It was his sous and I thought it was strange
Speaker 1: because he was supposed to be on his way back
Speaker 1: home right. So I answered the phone and asked what's
Speaker 1: up and he said, no, honey, I just want to
Speaker 1: ask you to ask God that you forgive me. Forgive me.
Speaker 1: He said, I love you so much, so much, and
Speaker 1: then he said it's better this way, and I said,
Speaker 1: but where are you? And he said it's better this way.
Speaker 1: That's it. He said, I love you and then hung up,
Speaker 1: and he told me the truck is parked in front
Speaker 1: of the tailor's shop. It was drizzling to us when
Speaker 1: it rains. It was very sad because it was raining
Speaker 1: when Sagadio disappeared. So we went to the truck and
Speaker 1: I told my son Chewy, look see what he's left us.
Speaker 1: And yes, he left us a letter in the glove compartment,
Speaker 1: these words, I ask your forgiveness and did you farewell?
Speaker 1: Carry you all in my heart, Paula, I take your
Speaker 1: breath with me. Have faith that you will persevere. Look
Speaker 1: will do it for our family. That's my final wish.
Speaker 1: Don't deny me of it. If God doesn't forgive my
Speaker 1: bad actions, I hope you will. I can't continue writing.
Speaker 1: I'm shaking all over. It is. I left you money
Speaker 1: in the piggy bank. Muse it for God's sake, to
Speaker 1: finish your home. That's what it's for. Goodbye, my love.
Speaker 1: The newspaper reported a man and a woman had been
Speaker 1: discovered shot to death in a cardboard shack in Lomaszpoleo.
Speaker 1: They were both lying on a twin mattress, a pistol
Speaker 1: resting between them. The man was his sous the woman
Speaker 1: was the neighbor with whom he was supposedly having an affair.
Speaker 1: Police ruled the incident a murder suicide. Yeah. The only
Speaker 1: thing I want it was not to live anymore. I
Speaker 1: would think of my daughters, that they were grown, that
Speaker 1: they didn't need me anymore, that I had done my part.
Speaker 1: And besides, he and I made a pact that whoever
Speaker 1: died first would come for the other one, and I
Speaker 1: would admonish him. You didn't keep your promise. Because I'm
Speaker 1: still here. I wanted to kill myself. I would grab
Speaker 1: the car and sometimes I would drive in a zigzag.
Speaker 1: I would get on the busiest streets of what is
Speaker 1: is were five lane streets, and I would say to him,
Speaker 1: you are my pilot. I was your pilot many times.
Speaker 1: I was always at your side. Well, now you're my pilot.
Speaker 1: You will determine how all this will end. The sudden
Speaker 1: loss of her husband, her constant companion, broke Baula, As
Speaker 1: with her daughter Sagrario, She was never fully satisfied with
Speaker 1: the police investigation into Jesus's death. Still, Paula told me
Speaker 1: she felt muzzled by the possibility that Jesus had committed
Speaker 1: a femicide. How could she continue to show her face
Speaker 1: in meetings and marches to protest that very crime. It
Speaker 1: felt like the ultimate hypocrisy. Later, Paula remembered something Jesus
Speaker 1: had told her not long before his death. He would
Speaker 1: tell me that I was a badass woman, and that's
Speaker 1: how he would say it. He would always tell me,
Speaker 1: you're a badass woman. You can handle it. The day
Speaker 1: I'm no longer here, you can do it again. In
Speaker 1: the letter, he told me the same thing, and I
Speaker 1: could do it. I could keep going. I've always continued
Speaker 1: to give interviews, offering my testimonials because I want to
Speaker 1: keep denouncing what happened to my daughter. I'll say too,
Speaker 1: that when we're no longer here, she'll live on and
Speaker 1: say a documentary, a book, and that's where the memory
Speaker 1: of Sagadio will remain. I want to keep denouncing that
Speaker 1: her case is not yet resolved, that girls continue to disappear.
Speaker 1: I want to keep going. But it's true that it
Speaker 1: takes its toll. There's something so heartbreaking about his US's story, Monica,
Speaker 1: the way he stands by Pawla and supports her in
Speaker 1: her acts of bearing witness, but can't take it himself.
Speaker 1: And in the end seems to be involved in the
Speaker 1: murder of yet another woman in Houarez. I know you
Speaker 1: hesitate to even bring this story up with Pawla, but
Speaker 1: why did you feel it was important? His Susie story
Speaker 1: is an extreme version of what happens to the fathers
Speaker 1: of femicide victims. Many succumbed to quick and sudden depths,
Speaker 1: whether it be from illness or cancer or a heart attack.
Speaker 1: In the case of his sous by his own hand.
Speaker 1: The newspaper report says he had a gunshot wound through
Speaker 1: his chest, but I read a gunshot wound through his heart,
Speaker 1: almost as if he was shooting himself in the heart
Speaker 1: because he couldn't take the pain that he carried there.
Speaker 1: He wanted to feel like the strong one, you know,
Speaker 1: the man of the family with whom we felt safe,
Speaker 1: so he kept all his feelings trapped inside. We never
Speaker 1: talked about it because for all of us, the main
Speaker 1: focus was to keep demanding justice for Saradio, and the
Speaker 1: rest was pushed aside. We didn't even sit down to
Speaker 1: eat as a family anymore. Yeah, life is passing me by.
Speaker 1: We're all getting sick, our children too, and where is
Speaker 1: the justice? That's when they say to me, well, what
Speaker 1: have you gained from all this, Mom, It's nothing. We've lost.
Speaker 1: We've lost our dad. Yet I never quit. I wish
Speaker 1: some day to get out of here, for all of
Speaker 1: us to leave and never hear about any of it again.
Speaker 1: And I wish there would be a day just for me,
Speaker 1: a day without sumicides. It's heartbreaking to see how Paula's
Speaker 1: strength drives her on and on, and at the same time,
Speaker 1: how the act of protests itself can create more trauma
Speaker 1: for the family. But her strength is remarkable, and I'm
Speaker 1: wondering how you make sense of it all. I guess
Speaker 1: it's your typical David and Goliath story, only in this
Speaker 1: this case. Yeah, David has not slayed the giant. The
Speaker 1: giant lumbers on, and Paula is simply trying to get
Speaker 1: by day by day, and she's got her daughters. I'm
Speaker 1: the one thing that I do take heart from is
Speaker 1: after Paula and I did the interview, I sat and
Speaker 1: I visited with her for just a little bit longer.
Speaker 1: She opened the door to her bedroom and the minute
Speaker 1: she does that, people start flowing in, including her two
Speaker 1: daughters and a grandson, and they all ended up on
Speaker 1: her king size bed in her bedroom, like the grandson
Speaker 1: is on his phone, and like Kuana and Guille they're
Speaker 1: lying there and chatting and laughing. And Paula comes in,
Speaker 1: What do you all want for lunch? What are we
Speaker 1: what are we gonna make for lunch? And there's a
Speaker 1: softness there. Not everyone has a family that they get
Speaker 1: along with that they feel so at home and cozy
Speaker 1: with that they can just walk into their mother's bedroom
Speaker 1: and sprawl on her bed, almost as if they were
Speaker 1: little children. I'm certain they all draw strength from each other.
Speaker 1: But I hope it's the last interview I do with
Speaker 1: Paula about the trays in her life. I don't hope
Speaker 1: it's the last time I see her or the last
Speaker 1: time I talk to her, but I do hope it's
Speaker 1: the last time I ask her to recount the tragedies
Speaker 1: and trauma in her life. She's done that enough and
Speaker 1: I think I think she needs a rest. And what
Speaker 1: about you, Monica, Well, when you first start out as
Speaker 1: a journalist and you're young and fresh and optimistic that
Speaker 1: if you just tell the story, something will change, and
Speaker 1: then you get to the point where where I am,
Speaker 1: where you report the same thing over and over. Not
Speaker 1: only does it keep happening, it gets worse and there
Speaker 1: is not much change, and then you wonder, what what
Speaker 1: is it for. I'm just going to leave it all behind.
Speaker 1: I'm just going to walk away, like I said at
Speaker 1: the beginning of this podcast. But then you realize, no, no,
Speaker 1: you just always have to fight. It doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: you're going to win, but if you don't fight, then
Speaker 1: all is lost. When you make a little progress, there's
Speaker 1: going to be pushback, and you just have to keep going.
Speaker 1: And maybe you do need to step away for a
Speaker 1: spell to collect yourself and eel and gather strength again.
Speaker 1: And once you do, then you get back out there.
Speaker 1: I was thinking about that word again, Metito. Once this
Speaker 1: story touches you, it never lets you go. Last night
Speaker 1: I dreamt that I was stuck in Juarez, being watched, hunted,
Speaker 1: But of course I woke up in the safety of
Speaker 1: my bed. Paula and generations of her family will never
Speaker 1: wake up from the nightmare of Sagarrio's murder, but I'll
Speaker 1: keep going. The story of the Flores family is just
Speaker 1: one of hundreds like them Inhuarez, and today Wires itself
Speaker 1: is just one city and many where institutions have collapsed
Speaker 1: in the face of money and power, and violence against
Speaker 1: the most vulnerable prevails. But there is sadness and wisdom
Speaker 1: to be cleaned from all of this. Wisdom, at the
Speaker 1: very least, to recognize one another's humanity. I'm as Voloshin
Speaker 1: and I'm mon thanks for listening. You're no see You're
Speaker 1: not I La Felicia Forgotten The Women of Juarez is
Speaker 1: co hosted by Me Monica and me oswald Oshin. Forgotten
Speaker 1: is executive produced by Me and Mangesh Hattikila. Our producers
Speaker 1: are Julian Weller and Katrina Norvelle. Sound editing by Julian Weller,
Speaker 1: Jacopo Penzo, Aaron Kaufman, and Michelle Lands. Lucas Riley is
Speaker 1: our story editor. Caitlin Thompson is our consulting producer. Production
Speaker 1: support from Emily Maronoff and Aaron Kaufman. Recording assistance this
Speaker 1: episode from Phil Bodger. Music by Leonardo Hablum and Hakabo Libermann.
Speaker 1: Additional music by Aaron Kaufman. Carla Tassara is the voice
Speaker 1: actor for Paula Flores Special Thanks to Ryan Matts and
Speaker 1: to Cynthia Begrano. And Maria Socorro Tabuenca for their support
Speaker 1: to this series. Thanks also to the producers of the
Speaker 1: documentary La Carta. This podcast is dedicated to all the
Speaker 1: women lost to senseless violence in Hoatis and all around
Speaker 1: the world. Quien sufri nuna mass Hello beautiful, I name
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