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Speaker 1: unest dot CEO. Forgotten is a production of IHNT media
Speaker 1: and unusual productions before we start. This podcast contains accounts
Speaker 1: which some listeners will find disturbing, but without them, the
Speaker 1: story can't be fully understood. Please take care while listening.
Speaker 1: Last time on Forgotten, when they like a girl, they
Speaker 1: find her, no matter the cost. The men that I
Speaker 1: study mostly they operate alone. So I started thinking, how
Speaker 1: could all of these men trust each other? Well. Our
Speaker 1: speculation was that when you don't want a crime to
Speaker 1: be solved, it's because the resolution of it is going
Speaker 1: to be extremely either embarrassing to somebody in power, or
Speaker 1: it's going to come back to you. I had a
Speaker 1: night witness who alleged that he had been at these
Speaker 1: parties and eventually the women would be killed because they
Speaker 1: knew too much. Alfredo Coucado was leaving the prison in
Speaker 1: Juarez in two thousand and three, having finally been introduced
Speaker 1: by Dante Almas to an eyewitness to the murders of women.
Speaker 1: This drug dealer had just told Alfredo the police were
Speaker 1: kidnapping women to be raped and killed by the cartel
Speaker 1: as a full of celebration. After the prison interview, Dante
Speaker 1: drove Alfredo back to the bridge to al Passo, but
Speaker 1: he had one final tip to share, and that's when
Speaker 1: Dante said, there's a name for this group, cartel. There's
Speaker 1: a small sort of division. There are the gatekeepers. They're
Speaker 1: the ones who controlled around and make sure that the
Speaker 1: drugs give into the United States. La Linea. At the time,
Speaker 1: la lina was from what you describe it. It's like
Speaker 1: an unspeakable term. Nobody knows about lallna. Nobody says anything
Speaker 1: about La linea. Why because La lina is really when
Speaker 1: we talk about the power. They are the heart and
Speaker 1: soul of the juist cartel. La ligna means the line
Speaker 1: and Dante told Alfredo that the group of policemen involved
Speaker 1: in abducting the women were also the enforcement arm for
Speaker 1: the Juires cartel, and the world of organized crime was
Speaker 1: one that the Devil's lawyer knew all too well. He
Speaker 1: didn't get his nickname for nothing. He'd represented people from
Speaker 1: the Juires Underworld and Eagle cases, and he had this
Speaker 1: drug dealer stashed in the city jail under a false name.
Speaker 1: And Alfredo still didn't know if his source was playing him.
Speaker 1: So to corroborate what he was hearing, he went to
Speaker 1: see Phil Jordan, the former head of the DA and
Speaker 1: El Passo. We called Phil ourselves, and he didn't mince
Speaker 1: his words. First and foremost, the cartels control the police.
Speaker 1: A lot of the killings that occurred in the Hoire's
Speaker 1: court were done by members of law enforcement. Mexican law enforcement,
Speaker 1: according to Phil La Ligna, often killed to enforce silence.
Speaker 1: Who's according to the intelligence that we have. The police
Speaker 1: would pick up informants and then they would execute them,
Speaker 1: sometimes burying them alive. Phil also corroborated the involvement of
Speaker 1: this group in the abduction and murder of women. He
Speaker 1: knew them as the gatekeepers, but with the help us
Speaker 1: some DA documents, he and Alfredo pieced together that this
Speaker 1: was another name for the same organization. Once we got
Speaker 1: those documents of the gatekeepers from the US the EA,
Speaker 1: we could finally go to the Mexican side. We met
Speaker 1: with Luis Vasconcelos. The drugs are in Mexico City for
Speaker 1: the AG's office. When I brought up La Lina, he
Speaker 1: did not want to talk about it and just kind
Speaker 1: of pushed us away. He didn't really deny La Lina me.
Speaker 1: He just kind of say, no thing. You know, They're
Speaker 1: kind of very careful. They very careful. Jose Luis Vasconcelos
Speaker 1: was an Assistant Attorney General in Mexico whose mandate was
Speaker 1: to attack organized crime, and Alfredo was perplexed by the
Speaker 1: response to his questions about La Lina, so he kept going.
Speaker 1: I think in one way it was good that I
Speaker 1: was so inexperience and so naive. When that happens, you
Speaker 1: just keep going, and you keep pushing and you push.
Speaker 1: I think some colleagues, my own mother would say that stupidity.
Speaker 1: I would say, I didn't know what I was getting into.
Speaker 1: In response to this pushing, Vasconcelos introduced Alfredo to the
Speaker 1: local anti drug prosecutor in Huarez. We're having lunch and again,
Speaker 1: you know, it's the same idea, what can you talk
Speaker 1: about La Linea? And suddenly he just I mean he
Speaker 1: just got really uncomfortable, really awkward, and he says, you know,
Speaker 1: I have to leave. Something else just happened, and I
Speaker 1: had to follow him outside and he just said, stay
Speaker 1: away from them? What made the Mexican drugs are and
Speaker 1: his man in Houire is so uncomfortable. What does it
Speaker 1: say about La Lina and its influence? How high up
Speaker 1: did the corruption go? And what did all this have
Speaker 1: to do with the murders of women almos Voloshin And
Speaker 1: I'm this is forgotten, the women ncando Baramo lasciv you
Speaker 1: know not si do you know? Masque hala feliciva. So
Speaker 1: by this point Monica Alfredo had all the confirmation he
Speaker 1: needed that La Lina did exist. But who are they?
Speaker 1: They are the enforcement wing of the cartel. They kidnap,
Speaker 1: they kill, they dispose of bodies. La Lina is comprised
Speaker 1: primarily of state and local cops. And these state and
Speaker 1: local cops are pulling a double duty. And how do
Speaker 1: these cops end up getting corrupted by the cartel? The
Speaker 1: simplest way to put this is with the phrase plato
Speaker 1: or plomo, which means silver or lead. Either you take
Speaker 1: a bribe or we put a bullet in your head.
Speaker 1: And this goes for anyone, not just a cop. It
Speaker 1: goes for a politician, street vendor, even a journalist. But
Speaker 1: sometimes this ultimatum isn't even necessary. Some people are willingly
Speaker 1: corrupted in exchange for some of the spoils of drug trafficking.
Speaker 1: And you told me about a word that's used in
Speaker 1: Juarez to describe this kind of complicity metito so medido
Speaker 1: can mean involved or implicated, and in Mexico and in
Speaker 1: Huatz it's often used to describe someone that's involved or
Speaker 1: implicated in the drug trade. Just like Alfredo walked into
Speaker 1: his story and the under world naively, so do many
Speaker 1: of the people who become methidos. By the time they
Speaker 1: realize just what they've gotten themselves into, it's too late.
Speaker 1: And it's through the process of methido that La Lina
Speaker 1: is able to exert its power. And Alfredo's reporting revealed
Speaker 1: that some of the cops in Huarez were matido in
Speaker 1: the most horrific way. They were involved in the murders
Speaker 1: of the women. How shocking was Alfredo's story at the time. Well,
Speaker 1: other reporters before Alfredo had also reported on this theory
Speaker 1: that the police may be involved in the murders of women,
Speaker 1: including Diana. The difference with Alfredo is he's able to
Speaker 1: get confirmation from top federal sources, and he's able to
Speaker 1: get a name La Lina, indicating that it's not just
Speaker 1: one or two or three corrupt cops. No, no, this
Speaker 1: is a four normal organization and that that is scary.
Speaker 1: La Lina translates as the line, and you mentioned the
Speaker 1: name might have some connection to the border, but I
Speaker 1: was very struck by the fact that it's unspeakable. Well,
Speaker 1: La Lina exerted its power through terror. It mercilessly went
Speaker 1: after enemies and snitches. And so this pact of silence
Speaker 1: is far reaching, to the point where even Mexico's top
Speaker 1: drugs are and his men in Wattas are hesitant to
Speaker 1: talk about La Lina. And if you have the authorities
Speaker 1: in collusion with the drug traffickers, achieving justice is impossible.
Speaker 1: These men, they had so much power they could pick
Speaker 1: a woman off the streets, do unthinkable things to her,
Speaker 1: dump her in a vacant lot and not suffer for
Speaker 1: any consequences for it. They would be protected by law enforcement.
Speaker 1: Alfredo had returned to Juarez to answer what he thought
Speaker 1: was a straightforward question, who is killing the women? But
Speaker 1: the answer to that question seemed to involve a level
Speaker 1: of conspiracy and corruption that he never believed was possible.
Speaker 1: And the deeper Alfredo dug, the more complicity in the
Speaker 1: murders he discovered. It's not here are the bad guys
Speaker 1: and you are the good guys. There were no good guys.
Speaker 1: Everybody was involved. You have very powerful groups who, in
Speaker 1: order to have power, they share the profits. And then
Speaker 1: suddenly it becomes sol vicious that you never know who
Speaker 1: is the government and the words are criminals, the one
Speaker 1: and the same. Alfredo's mother had made him promise that
Speaker 1: he'd never report un organized crime, but he was finding
Speaker 1: that miss hard to keep. His reporting on the murders
Speaker 1: of women had exposed to him why so many investigators
Speaker 1: had failed to unmask the killers, and he was cleaning
Speaker 1: a new understanding of how power worked in Mexico. But
Speaker 1: Alfredo maintained some degree of optimism. He believed that if
Speaker 1: he exposed what was happening, things might change, So he
Speaker 1: accepts an invitation to Juarez shortly after his story was
Speaker 1: published to discuss the findings with some Mexican colleagues, but
Speaker 1: he didn't get the response he was expecting. One colleague
Speaker 1: came out to me and says, there is no La Linea.
Speaker 1: And this is someone I knew and someone I trusted,
Speaker 1: a Mexican reporter. And I said, listen, if there is
Speaker 1: no La Linea, we will write a correction and we
Speaker 1: will understand. We don't want to give quite as a
Speaker 1: bad name, but I'm telling you, we got documents, we
Speaker 1: have people on the record. And he just kind of
Speaker 1: looked at me like, than guil, be careful. Exactly what
Speaker 1: the drugs are in Mexico City, had told Alfredo. But
Speaker 1: was it a friendly warning or a veiled threat? Was
Speaker 1: the trusted colleague himself Matido? Well, Alfredo had all the
Speaker 1: DA documentation about La line but even so he started
Speaker 1: to doubt himself. Then within minutes of leaving the panel,
Speaker 1: he got all the confirmation he'd ever't need. Now I'm
Speaker 1: walking away and there's a number comes in and there's
Speaker 1: not a number is just unknown. It says unknown on
Speaker 1: the phone, and person says a keyboy or Lazzi says,
Speaker 1: I'm right behind you. On the sixteenth of September, Avenue,
Speaker 1: I was being watched and I hung up the phone,
Speaker 1: and I'm looking at everything with this paranoia. It goes
Speaker 1: from one minute you're doubting you're reporting to the next
Speaker 1: moment you're like, holy shit, they do exist, and they're here,
Speaker 1: and they may be right next to me, or the
Speaker 1: car may be right here, or the guy walking behind
Speaker 1: me may be the person. I am scared shitless. What
Speaker 1: do I do now? So I just made a bee line.
Speaker 1: I ran. Alfredo is only a mile from the bridge
Speaker 1: to the US and he needs to get to the
Speaker 1: border to safety. But as he runs through the streets,
Speaker 1: he's suspicious of every person who looks his way, and
Speaker 1: he's starting to attract notice. He knows he might not
Speaker 1: make it all the way, So, with his life on
Speaker 1: the line and in desperation, Alfredo makes a bee line
Speaker 1: towards someone he doesn't even know if he can trust.
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Speaker 1: running through the very streets west so many women disappeared
Speaker 1: without witnesses. He's realizing that in hunting the story, he
Speaker 1: himself has become the prey. Because La Lina, the organization
Speaker 1: responsible for the abduction and murder of so many young women,
Speaker 1: won't tolerate any more revelations about us in the workings.
Speaker 1: But silencing journalists and murdering women is not the reason
Speaker 1: that La Lina exists, although both do play a role
Speaker 1: in protecting their real business, drug trafficking. So ALFREDA receives
Speaker 1: this call Monica on his cell phone, and it's not
Speaker 1: exactly like the Dallas Morning News would have given his
Speaker 1: number out. So it's kind of crazy because not only
Speaker 1: does this person on the other end of the line
Speaker 1: know where he is, they've managed to get his cell
Speaker 1: phone number. How's that possible? Jeez, wouldn't we all like
Speaker 1: to know that? Wouldn't Alfredo like to know that? But
Speaker 1: the fact that they've got it is very concerning. That
Speaker 1: means that someone he thinks he can trust is betraying him.
Speaker 1: I mean, it just proves how far their tentacles reach
Speaker 1: that even an American journalist for a major US newspaper
Speaker 1: can be threatened by them. You can imagine this phone
Speaker 1: called Alfredo receives was exactly what his mother was fearing
Speaker 1: when she made him promise not to cover these kinds
Speaker 1: of stories. Do you know anything about the conversation between them,
Speaker 1: But I imagine that it was no different from the
Speaker 1: interaction I had with my own mother. Leave them alone,
Speaker 1: because if you don't, they're going to come after you.
Speaker 1: And I don't want to be one of those grieving
Speaker 1: mothers I see sobbing into the news cameras on a
Speaker 1: regular basis. How do we get here? Where mothers from
Speaker 1: Paulaflores to Alfreda's mother to your mother so scared about
Speaker 1: that children Hourez. The drug cartels in Mexico are like
Speaker 1: a cancer, and it's a cancer that's been metastasizing ever
Speaker 1: since the nineteen eighties. And why is it so severe
Speaker 1: in Huarez. Well, honestly, it comes down to simple geography.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a reason why the Spaniards called my
Speaker 1: hometown the Pass. Four hundred years ago, bal Paso Hottest
Speaker 1: region was the midsection of one of the most important
Speaker 1: trade routes in the Americas, the Camino Real. It went
Speaker 1: from Mexico City all the way to Santa Fe, New Mexico.
Speaker 1: Now fast forward a few centuries, people in goods are
Speaker 1: still moving in droves across this region. Only now there's
Speaker 1: an international border restricting that movement. And those restrictions created
Speaker 1: a golden opportunity for the black market. And with help
Speaker 1: from Laalna, the hottest hotel, was one of the groups
Speaker 1: that exploited this black market opportunity. So Miami had this
Speaker 1: reputation of being the place to smuggle drugs into the US,
Speaker 1: which is why movies like Scarface were set there. But
Speaker 1: basically the government got wise to that and traffickers started
Speaker 1: looking for alternate roots. Yes, this is when Colombian drug
Speaker 1: traffickers discover the US Mexico border, which turns out to
Speaker 1: be a far superior route, and the Feds they didn't
Speaker 1: catch up until nineteen eighty nine. In that year, they
Speaker 1: busted a warehouse in North Los Angeles and found twenty
Speaker 1: one tons of cocaine, reportedly worth six point five billion dollars. Wow,
Speaker 1: still the largest seizure of cocaine in American history. And
Speaker 1: guess where those twenty one tons came from? El Paso, howires,
Speaker 1: this was now the new hot spot. By the late nineties,
Speaker 1: the estimate was that seventy percent of all drug shipments
Speaker 1: to the US were coming through the US Mexico border.
Speaker 1: But the reason that these drug cartels are so powerful
Speaker 1: is because of demand on the American side, and that
Speaker 1: demand is worth billions of dollars every single year, and
Speaker 1: that's the money that goes to corrupting the state and
Speaker 1: local police who are kidnapping and raping and dumping these
Speaker 1: women in the desert. El Paso and Huires have been
Speaker 1: smuggling cities for a hundred years, but Juires has only
Speaker 1: been what Diana Washington Valdez schools a killing field for
Speaker 1: women since the nineteen nineties. So what changed? How did
Speaker 1: La Ligna come into existence and become so brutal. To
Speaker 1: help answer these questions, we spoke with Howard Campbell the
Speaker 1: statement about the He's an anthropologist at the University of
Speaker 1: Texas El Paso. In two thousand and nine, the Senate
Speaker 1: Committee on Foreign Relations asked him to testify about how
Speaker 1: the US might respond to escalating violence in Mexico. I
Speaker 1: don't think that in a long term we're ever going
Speaker 1: to stop drug cartels exactly. For thirty five years we've
Speaker 1: been doing this, but we don't see much change in
Speaker 1: the supply or demand. The most effective ways the US
Speaker 1: can help Mexico with a drug problem are by first
Speaker 1: of all, cutting our demand for illegal drugs. Second, slowing
Speaker 1: the flow of guns from the US to Mexico. Third
Speaker 1: fighting drug organization. Howard believes that the nature of the
Speaker 1: murders of women in Huirez, the patterns in the selection,
Speaker 1: and the sexual violence that goes hand in hand with
Speaker 1: the killings, has meant that many outside investigators have focused
Speaker 1: on the wrong leads. I think, to some extent, the
Speaker 1: understanding of this femicide issue was seen through the filter
Speaker 1: of the American phenomenon of serial killers Ted Bundy and
Speaker 1: John Wayne Gacy. If you think the problem as serial
Speaker 1: killers and the problem is catching the serial killers. But
Speaker 1: if your other interpretation is that the problem is the
Speaker 1: lack of a functioning police system and judicial system in Mexico,
Speaker 1: corrupt politicians, drug cartels, and gangs, if you think that's
Speaker 1: the source of the violence, and that's what you need
Speaker 1: to attack first. As far as how it is concerned,
Speaker 1: no matter how many memoilios are taken off the streets
Speaker 1: of Juarez, or even how many El Chapo Guzman's extradited
Speaker 1: to the US, the sums of money involved in drug
Speaker 1: trafficking means that corruption is endemic on both sides of
Speaker 1: the border. It's a multibillion dollar industry in these two cities.
Speaker 1: I mean El Pasohuas are probably some of the most
Speaker 1: important places in the entire world for narcotics trafficking. That's
Speaker 1: another misnomer about drug trafficking is that it's Mexican groups invading,
Speaker 1: and i'd stay it's no, it's it's Mexicans and Americans
Speaker 1: working together to produce, to transport, to smuggle, to sell drugs.
Speaker 1: You're talking about at least one hundred years of history.
Speaker 1: In fact, up until eighteen fifty, El Paso and Juarez
Speaker 1: were one community. Both were in Mexico. It was only
Speaker 1: after the Mexican American War that El Paso became part
Speaker 1: of Texas, with Juarez Romania in Mexico, but the two
Speaker 1: cities stayed deeply connected, and by the nineteen twenties the
Speaker 1: area was as smugg as paradise, from bootleg liquor to
Speaker 1: illegal narcotics, with the business in Juarez run by an
Speaker 1: unlikely figure. Starting around the time of prohibition, the smuggling
Speaker 1: of marijuana and heroin was largely monopolized by one person,
Speaker 1: a woman called lad Nacha. She had a career that
Speaker 1: lasted forty year, fifty years. That's quite a long time.
Speaker 1: That's quite a long time, and so Lanacha died of
Speaker 1: natural causes in her seventies, and so every drug traffickers
Speaker 1: heaven or something like. So Lanacha was a genius. She
Speaker 1: was uneducated, grew up as a poor woman, and eventually
Speaker 1: somehow figured out how to make this drug business work.
Speaker 1: What protected her for that long so she was well
Speaker 1: protected by a vast extended family, but also her accomplices
Speaker 1: in the municipal police surely was in the municipal government
Speaker 1: of Juarez, but also even at the federal level. From
Speaker 1: the beginning, in Hoare's illegal business thrived with the complicity
Speaker 1: of the police and government, but this didn't include the
Speaker 1: abduction and murder of young women who had nothing to
Speaker 1: do with drugs. In fact, for a while, drug smuggly
Speaker 1: in Houarres operated like the old school Italian mafia, violent
Speaker 1: to its enemies, but woven into the fabric of the community.
Speaker 1: Things began to shift when America's consumption habit shifted. People
Speaker 1: started to use cocaine. It was sort of the passing
Speaker 1: of the hippie era into the disco era, and the
Speaker 1: Mexican trafficking organizations adapted to that. In the nineteen eighties,
Speaker 1: there was an enterprising Huara's local who was more than
Speaker 1: happy to help meet this new demand, even if that
Speaker 1: meant taking on the second job. Raphael Aguilaruahard, though, was
Speaker 1: head of the federal police in the Chihuahua area, so
Speaker 1: he formed the First Waters Cartel and they began the
Speaker 1: smuggle cocaine. That's when things changed. There wasn't that much
Speaker 1: violence in Juadas in the nineteen eighties, and so you
Speaker 1: had this very impressive drug trafficking organization that was making
Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of dollars, but not that many people
Speaker 1: were getting killed. Huaras remained a city that Lanaco would
Speaker 1: have recognized, but the sums of money pouring in because
Speaker 1: of cocaine began to attract notice from outsiders, not least
Speaker 1: from a man from the west in Mexican state of
Speaker 1: Sina Looa. He too was a federal policeman called Amalo
Speaker 1: Kario Fuentes. Carrio Fuentes was the great innovator in Mexican
Speaker 1: drug trafficking of bringing seven forty seven airplanes was a
Speaker 1: seats removed filled with cocaine from Colombia all the way
Speaker 1: up to the northern Mexican border and then smuggling them
Speaker 1: into the United States, sometimes in eighteen wheel trucks right
Speaker 1: across the free bridge Central El Paso and quads, many
Speaker 1: times with paid off US customs agents or US Immigration officers.
Speaker 1: When you spend time in El Paso, you can't help
Speaker 1: but notice the steel fence that bisects it from Juarez
Speaker 1: and the militarization of the border. But no amount of
Speaker 1: infrastructure can protect an organization from an inside job. And
Speaker 1: Careo Fuentes, the police officer turned trafficker, understood this better
Speaker 1: than most. He recognized that the big as organization got,
Speaker 1: the more money it could bring in. The more money,
Speaker 1: the more corrupt officials on both sides of the border,
Speaker 1: and so it went on. But he also recognized that
Speaker 1: he was operating far from his home turf, so he
Speaker 1: brought in some associates from Sinaloa. Kario Frentes brought in
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of Scario's dead man. He had a
Speaker 1: very complex organization involving people guarding safe houses. You have drivers,
Speaker 1: you have gunmen, you have accountants. You have essentially an
Speaker 1: informal criminal corporation, and that's what Kario Fuentes created. At first,
Speaker 1: the two former policemen Aguilar and Curio Fuentes worked together,
Speaker 1: solidifying an empire of cocaine trafficking. But after a while,
Speaker 1: the outsider saw his opportunity to go to Loane. Now
Speaker 1: this isn't the same way as when you have a
Speaker 1: big American corporation buys up another corporation. It isn't as
Speaker 1: neat and clean. Carrio Fuentes had Aguilar, the original founder
Speaker 1: of the Juadis cartel, murdered in nineteen ninety three. That's
Speaker 1: when all the violence, That's when the ship hit the fan,
Speaker 1: was when the Carrio Fuentes cartel took over in Juadas.
Speaker 1: Despite the loss of their leader, the local cartel weren't
Speaker 1: going to roll over for the man from Sina Looa,
Speaker 1: So Carria Fuentes began a reign of terror. So in
Speaker 1: the early nineteen nineties, Quadas becomes part of this kind
Speaker 1: of globalized, multi national, extremely violent drug cartel. You say
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three as the takeover of Amalo Carrillo Fuentes
Speaker 1: of the Juaas Plaza, nineteen ninety three is also when
Speaker 1: these brutal, horrific women's murders began to happen in the city.
Speaker 1: So if you're saying it's not a coincidence. No, I
Speaker 1: would say that it's not a coincidence. I'm not saying
Speaker 1: it's a conspiracy. I'm not saying the cartel game and
Speaker 1: they said, Okay, we're gonna start committing femicides. What I'm
Speaker 1: saying is I think it's an ex hypothesis to think
Speaker 1: that many women that were raped, kidnapped, murdered in quarters
Speaker 1: were killed and mistreated by ciccardios hitmen for the drug cartels.
Speaker 1: Outsiders who don't feel connected to the local population, whose
Speaker 1: job is to brutalize and kill, would see women walking
Speaker 1: on the streets as pieces of meat, just like the
Speaker 1: people they would kidnap and murder who were enemies of
Speaker 1: their drug organization. Alfredo's reporting had already revealed the hand
Speaker 1: organized crime in the murders of women, but Howard was
Speaker 1: helping us piece together how a hostile takeover of the
Speaker 1: Hawire's cartel had turned the women who lived in the
Speaker 1: city into targets as FBI special agents in charge of
Speaker 1: El Paso, Heredrik Crawford had called them antelopes at the
Speaker 1: water hole. So Laalina was an organization that exerted total
Speaker 1: control and whose policy if Plato Plomo left their victims
Speaker 1: with nowhere to turn, and Alfredo was experiencing this firsthand
Speaker 1: as he ran through the streets of downtown Juarez, hoping
Speaker 1: to make it back to the bridge. The one person
Speaker 1: he could think to turn to for help was Dantown Maras,
Speaker 1: but as he got closer to the lawyer's office, he
Speaker 1: realized that he was running towards the very people he
Speaker 1: was trying so hard to escape. I'm just pushing forward.
Speaker 1: I realized where Danta's office is, and I'm just pushing
Speaker 1: and looking all around me, and I've noticed that right
Speaker 1: next to Danta's and just forgan there was a police station,
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, oh my god, you know the caps
Speaker 1: are was La Lina? What am I doing? I ran,
Speaker 1: I come in and I just went straight to his office.
Speaker 1: Paula Flores and so many other mothers had learned that
Speaker 1: there was no point in going to the police, and
Speaker 1: as far as Alfreda was concerned, doing so would further
Speaker 1: endanger his life, So he put his fate into the
Speaker 1: hands of the very lawyer He'd been told by so
Speaker 1: many people was not to be trusted as a source,
Speaker 1: let alone a savior. So I explained to Dante, what's
Speaker 1: you know, this is what's going on. I think the
Speaker 1: first time I saw Dante and he looked worried, and
Speaker 1: then he finally says, yeah, the chaste you're fucked. I
Speaker 1: said why. He says, they're anti Laalinia's Aunto and he says,
Speaker 1: you know, the only good thing is a year American
Speaker 1: And I said, yeah, by my cousin is a cup
Speaker 1: Aquitis Cup, and I have family in Quiis And he says, well,
Speaker 1: then you're really fucked. Something may happen to them because
Speaker 1: of you. Alfredo doesn't have time to dwell on the
Speaker 1: consequences of his reporting. As far as he's concerned, his
Speaker 1: own life depends on getting back to the US as
Speaker 1: fast as possible. So I tell Dante, so, look, how
Speaker 1: do I get across? And he basically says, why don't
Speaker 1: I drive you back? Because I don't think you should watch.
Speaker 1: I'll just drive you the N SUV and basically just
Speaker 1: put me in the back, crossing the bag and I'm
Speaker 1: looking through the windows, and I'm looking at all these
Speaker 1: places that I grew up may Sky, you know again,
Speaker 1: the marches. At one point I wanted to be a
Speaker 1: songwriter and a singer, and we had a little studio.
Speaker 1: But in that area, you know, all these things are
Speaker 1: going through my mind. And I'm also thinking, what if
Speaker 1: Dante is in on us. What if he's not taking
Speaker 1: me to the bridge, what if he's taking me somewhere,
Speaker 1: but he's taking me to the cop And then I
Speaker 1: see him on the phone and he's he just sounds
Speaker 1: so nonchalant, it's just another normal day. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: sort of get Dante to tell me everything's gonna be okay,
Speaker 1: But the whole time he's on the damn phone, Alfred
Speaker 1: it was panicking. He wasn't sure whether he could trust
Speaker 1: the Devil's lawyer, whether Dante might still be me Tito
Speaker 1: or on La Linea's payroll. In fact, Alfred it wasn't
Speaker 1: even sure if he'd make it out of quarre as alive.
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Speaker 1: from Our Health Discovered podcast. In this special episode, we'll
Speaker 1: hear about living a fulfilling life with chronic cart failure,
Speaker 1: a condition that doesn't have to be as scary as
Speaker 1: it sounds. I was outside shoveling snow and I noticed
Speaker 1: I was coughing up flim Unbeknownst to me, I left
Speaker 1: a trail of blood behind me, and I was one sign. Now.
Speaker 1: Of course, prior to I was excessively gaining weight. I
Speaker 1: had issues breathing, sleep, apnea. I had a lot of
Speaker 1: those classic signs. My legs were beginning to retain fluid,
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Speaker 1: Listen to Health Discovered on the iHeartRadio app or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Alfredo was in the back of
Speaker 1: Dante's suv trying to make out where they were going.
Speaker 1: It was just a quick, little dry but to me
Speaker 1: it just felt like forever. Finally it became clear that
Speaker 1: the lawyer was taking him back to the border, and
Speaker 1: as they arrived at the bridge that would allow Alfredo
Speaker 1: to escape to the safety of El Paso, the lawyer
Speaker 1: got off the phone and once again he had some
Speaker 1: final words for the journalist. I think he saw how
Speaker 1: scared I was, and he's trying to tell me how
Speaker 1: important it was what I did. But he says, I
Speaker 1: get the metal where wars, it's who acquits you have
Speaker 1: to have boss. Don't be afraid. So basically he's downing you,
Speaker 1: don't be intimidated, continue your work. I think one of
Speaker 1: his lands was its qui as chained out. This is
Speaker 1: swhides damn it, you know, don't be intimidated. Keep searching,
Speaker 1: keep asking us, keep digging. In the moment that Dante
Speaker 1: dropped him off at the bridge, Alfredo realized once and
Speaker 1: for all that he could trust him. In fact, it
Speaker 1: was the lawyer who helped him get to El Paso,
Speaker 1: beyond the reach of La Lina and perhaps saved his
Speaker 1: life in the process. So Monica that moment where Alfredo
Speaker 1: gets back to the bridge and he's able to cross
Speaker 1: into El Paso. You told me you understood exactly how
Speaker 1: he's feeling. Yeah. Certainly, when I was reporting on the
Speaker 1: drug war in Huadis, once I crossed over the bridge
Speaker 1: and drove underneath the sign that said Welcome to the
Speaker 1: United States, I would feel this rush of relief come
Speaker 1: over me, and I would recognize just how stressed I
Speaker 1: had been on the other side. But I knew where
Speaker 1: to draw the line. As long as I reported on
Speaker 1: the victims of the violence that the car tell exacts
Speaker 1: on the city of Watts, I was unlikely to be bothered.
Speaker 1: They don't care about the victims. It did involve going
Speaker 1: into a dangerous city where being in the wrong place
Speaker 1: at the wrong time could get you killed. But the
Speaker 1: kind of reporting I tried to do was reporting that
Speaker 1: wouldn't result in me being specifically targeted. Nonetheless, you told
Speaker 1: me about those cowboy boots and about thinking about what
Speaker 1: it might be like to be stuffed in the back
Speaker 1: of someone's car. And it's kind of astonishing to me
Speaker 1: how much risk Alfredo took and you took to cover
Speaker 1: this story. But also that both of you get to
Speaker 1: come home, And that's something I found very striking about
Speaker 1: that exchange between Dante and Alfredo. When Dante says to him,
Speaker 1: keep digging, it's almost as though he's passing the torch
Speaker 1: because Alfredo can go back to safety and Dante has
Speaker 1: to turn around back to the city where friend Mario
Speaker 1: Escobado was assassinated not that long ago. It's a very
Speaker 1: poignant moment in a sense, Dante sees Alfredo as this
Speaker 1: beacon of hope. Maybe if the Americans can call out
Speaker 1: what's truly happening in Juarez, something will change. The fact
Speaker 1: that this conversation takes place at the foot of the
Speaker 1: international bridge that connects what is to Alpasso. The bridge,
Speaker 1: to Dante, might have symbolized the bridge between impunity and justice.
Speaker 1: Dante had taken enormous risk in exposing to Alfredo who
Speaker 1: was complicit in the murders of women in Huarez, and
Speaker 1: it was because of him that the systematic involvement of
Speaker 1: the police was confirmed and that the name La Lina
Speaker 1: was published, disturbing their culture of silence. But as nochelant
Speaker 1: As Dante was talking on the phone as he drove
Speaker 1: Alfredo back to the border, he was well aware that
Speaker 1: they would likely be a price for into a journalist
Speaker 1: let's learn, saving his life. After publishing his story, Alfredo
Speaker 1: moved on to Mexico City as he planned, and Dante
Speaker 1: stayed in Juarez, but they stayed in touch. We talked
Speaker 1: several times, but every time he caused it was like
Speaker 1: a sense of urgency. It was like he was scared.
Speaker 1: So I would just say Dante, okay and kept I
Speaker 1: saw what's going on. I came back to Squas because
Speaker 1: he wanted to meet me. He said, look, I have
Speaker 1: things I want to share with your things I want
Speaker 1: to tell you. But I thought he's got something big,
Speaker 1: and we decided to meet somewhere near the bridge. I
Speaker 1: wasn't the Kentucky Club. I was there for an hour
Speaker 1: than two hours, never showed up. Like a few days later,
Speaker 1: I saw it in the news. He had been killed
Speaker 1: right near the same area where I had run to
Speaker 1: his office to scun down by hitmen with a car
Speaker 1: with new Mexico plates. Conveniently, the cameras were not working
Speaker 1: at day Dante was gone. Was his murder ever solved?
Speaker 1: Murder was never saw. Do you have any ideas why
Speaker 1: he was killed? I think oftentimes when people get killed
Speaker 1: in mexico's because they know too much. I think it's
Speaker 1: something I've learned. It's not always maybe smart to try
Speaker 1: to know so much. But again, you know, we were young,
Speaker 1: we were hopeful. You were certainly played a role in
Speaker 1: my trying to steer away from covering the drug cartels.
Speaker 1: Because I'll never forget a voicemail you left on my phone.
Speaker 1: This is about ten years ago now for y'all. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't tell your mom. Mean something like Monica, we
Speaker 1: we like our soup cold or hot. And I was like,
Speaker 1: that's some dark humor, Alfred, Why did you get from
Speaker 1: of the cartels? You know, this is like the cartels
Speaker 1: saying they liked the soup color hot. You know it
Speaker 1: maybe five years, it maybe ten years. They might forgive you,
Speaker 1: but they're never going to forget, and they might catch
Speaker 1: up with you someday. Equally, So I got the gist
Speaker 1: of Alfredo's joke about the soup monica, But what exactly
Speaker 1: does it mean? In other words, you were their soup,
Speaker 1: and sooner or later they're gonna eat you hot or cold.
Speaker 1: Sooner or later they'll take their revenge, perhaps when you
Speaker 1: least expect it. So Alfredo came to learn this, but
Speaker 1: Dante knew it all along, but nonetheless he kept going.
Speaker 1: Remember Dante told Alfredo, this is what is damn it.
Speaker 1: You've got to have guts, and Dante did. In the end,
Speaker 1: he died, living up to his own saying he suffered
Speaker 1: the same fate as his friend Mario Escobedo, gunned down
Speaker 1: in the typical drive by execution favored by La Lina.
Speaker 1: Dante may have started out as the devil's lawyer, but
Speaker 1: in the end you could say he and Mario gave
Speaker 1: their lives in the name of justice. La Lina the
Speaker 1: line Dante had knowingly crossed it, and he paid the
Speaker 1: ultimate price. He did live long enough to see one
Speaker 1: of the bus drivers exonerated and the truth of what
Speaker 1: was happening to the women in Juarez exposed in the
Speaker 1: American press. But the other bus driver died in prison
Speaker 1: in mysterious circumstances after a botched operation. Mario Escobedo's father,
Speaker 1: who led the protest in front of the juire As
Speaker 1: Attorney General's office carrying his son's casket, was assassinated in
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine at his office, along with his
Speaker 1: other son, Edgar. There were eight women's bodies discovered in
Speaker 1: the cotton fields in two thousand and one, and in
Speaker 1: some sense that was just the beginning of the crime.
Speaker 1: Within the space of a few years, at least four
Speaker 1: people seeking to reveal the truth of those women's murders
Speaker 1: had themselves been assassinated, and several others caught up in
Speaker 1: the story also died prematurely. Even Vasconcelos, the drugs are
Speaker 1: in Mexico City, who Alfredo met died in a plane
Speaker 1: crash in two thousand and eight, and some suspected foul play.
Speaker 1: Demanding justice in Juarez is a deadly business, which makes
Speaker 1: that other line, the one that separates it from al Passo,
Speaker 1: all the more significant. Alfredo could cross the bridge back
Speaker 1: to safety, and he lived. Dante could drive Alfredo up
Speaker 1: to the bridge, but he'd die in Huirez. But as
Speaker 1: how it, Kempbell told us they called Tel's reach. It
Speaker 1: doesn't stop at the Buddha. Elpas was a dormitory for
Speaker 1: drug traffickers, high level drug traffickers, hitmen from the cartels,
Speaker 1: hundreds of drug smugglers, probably hundreds of stash houses where
Speaker 1: drugs are stored, trucking businesses that are dedicated to drug trafficking,
Speaker 1: and so the economy of elpas was completely saturated with
Speaker 1: drugs and illegal money. And we consider this here normal
Speaker 1: and not particularly a problem. As long as you don't
Speaker 1: get hurt or you don't get in trouble, people just
Speaker 1: kind of turn a blind eye. Even to this day,
Speaker 1: there's dramatic inequality and unfairness in the relationship between the
Speaker 1: two cities, even though it has made a living off
Speaker 1: of drug smuggling. Elpass is incredibly safe where I see
Speaker 1: Lahuata is where half the population of Elpaso has relatives
Speaker 1: and friends. Is one of the most violent cities in
Speaker 1: the world and dangerous cities in the world. And I
Speaker 1: don't think most people in El Paso really care about
Speaker 1: changing that. There's a kind of way in which people
Speaker 1: accept this inequality and this exploitation of Mexico as a
Speaker 1: source for legal drugs that we enjoy consuming and we
Speaker 1: farm out the risk to the Mexicans who are the
Speaker 1: ones that die by the thousands and the drug violence,
Speaker 1: and so it isn't right. It's hypocritical, it's unjust, it's unfair.
Speaker 1: But whether you like it or not, it's just everyday
Speaker 1: life here on the border. Howard got an insight into
Speaker 1: the depths of this hypocrisy from one of his students
Speaker 1: at the University of Texas, El Paso. I believe he
Speaker 1: was an immigration officer, and in the class we would
Speaker 1: debate she's related to Mexico, and he would always stand
Speaker 1: up for the US government and the other students, many
Speaker 1: of them were Mexican Americans, hated the US Immigration Service
Speaker 1: and so they didn't like him, and he would come
Speaker 1: to class in uniform. But I found it interesting that
Speaker 1: he would wear a golden neckla around his neck with
Speaker 1: a gold anchor, very expensive piece of jewelry. And then
Speaker 1: one time I saw him at a very fancy mall
Speaker 1: in West El Paso and he came out with huge
Speaker 1: bags of expensive clothing that he had just purchased. Well
Speaker 1: soon after he was my student, he was arrested for
Speaker 1: being a corrupt immigration officer and allowing large amounts of
Speaker 1: cocaine with the Huades cartel to cross into Alpaso from
Speaker 1: Juarez on the bridge. According to court documents, Howard's student,
Speaker 1: the immigration officer was charging the cartel ten thousand dollars
Speaker 1: for each cocaine laden car that he waved through. This
Speaker 1: was la ligne in action, except in Olpaso. They weren't
Speaker 1: murdering young women or people who dared to ask questions,
Speaker 1: but their money was just as capable of corrupting US officials.
Speaker 1: And I was beginning to understand the deep irony of
Speaker 1: the fence that divided the two cities. I would say
Speaker 1: that it's a very contradictory place because even though you
Speaker 1: have thousands of people that are involved in drug trafficking,
Speaker 1: drug smuggling, drug dealing, and you also have thousands of
Speaker 1: federal law agents, d EA, Customs, you name the agency.
Speaker 1: You have one of the largest military bases in the world,
Speaker 1: Fort Bliss, So there's soldiers everywhere. There's municipals, you know,
Speaker 1: city cops, you know, state cops, any number of law
Speaker 1: enforcement agencies, the FBI in El Paso. So it's a
Speaker 1: simultaneously it's this kind of zoo of criminals and the
Speaker 1: law living together and even marrying each other. Alfredo was
Speaker 1: talking about Juarez when he said, everybody's involved metito. But
Speaker 1: the thing about metito is it's never really clear just
Speaker 1: how compromised a person is. And that brings us back
Speaker 1: to an American law enforcement official whose name is lightly
Speaker 1: familiar by now, Hardrid Crawford, who was head of the FBI,
Speaker 1: started to go over there a lot and god associated
Speaker 1: with high ranking businessman in quarters. Hardrick was the most
Speaker 1: outspoken American official on the killings of women in Juarez.
Speaker 1: He even gave a quote to a Mexican newspaper where
Speaker 1: he called the murders crimes against humanity. I had a
Speaker 1: moral mission that I felt that I was empowered on
Speaker 1: a different level than the US Constitution. That mission would
Speaker 1: give Hardrick a first hand understanding of the word metito,
Speaker 1: and it would unleash a series of events that called
Speaker 1: his own life into question. So I was in the
Speaker 1: house by myself and my brother said directly, did you
Speaker 1: ever think about eating your gun, I said, I did,
Speaker 1: I did seriously consider killing myself. I'm as Velashen and
Speaker 1: see you next time. Stella Felicia Forgotten. The Women of
Speaker 1: Juarez is co hosted by Me Monica and me Oswal Loshen.
Speaker 1: Forgotten is executive produced by Me and Mangesh Hatigia. Our
Speaker 1: producers are Julian Weller and Katrina Norvell. Sound editing by
Speaker 1: Julian Weller, Jacopo Penzo and Aaron Coran. Lucas Riley is
Speaker 1: our story editor. Caitlin Thompson is our consulting producer. Recording
Speaker 1: assistance this episode from Michael Perez. Production support from Emily
Speaker 1: Maronoff and Aaron Kaufman. Our theme tune is the Richel
Speaker 1: Nacimiento as performed by Natalie Lae. Music by Leonardo Hablum
Speaker 1: and Hakkabo Libermann. Additional music by Aaron Kaufman. Hello beautiful,
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