Speaker 1: This is Teddy Teapot. Hi, you guys, I am so
Speaker 1: excited to get into another week. I have Jen swallowed
Speaker 1: joining me today. Hi, And I mean, we are going
Speaker 1: to do your breakup? Should we call it bible? The Bible?
Speaker 1: It's the Bible. It's all the things you need to
Speaker 1: know to either get through a breakup, move on, find
Speaker 1: your voice whatever it is, divorced, get divorced, find somebody new. Um,
Speaker 1: I mean I can only start. I didn't have a
Speaker 1: ton of breakups. I mean I had high school breakups
Speaker 1: where it was like you did drive buy their house,
Speaker 1: drive by their houses and just to see if they
Speaker 1: were wrong. Is that stalking? I'm telling you in the nineties,
Speaker 1: that was a thing. We've all done it, um. But
Speaker 1: then no other than that, Like as an adult, I
Speaker 1: think I only had one serious boyfriend and he ended
Speaker 1: up being my first husband. And the way I kind
Speaker 1: of healed from it was just meeting somebody else. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, I knew it was time for us to
Speaker 1: be done. Like we broke up. I was sad because
Speaker 1: I missed him as a best friend. Wasn't mutual, it
Speaker 1: was it was mutual, So there wasn't that he didn't
Speaker 1: do anything to me. I didn't do anything to him.
Speaker 1: We just met too young, and we weren't in a
Speaker 1: place where we were willing to work to grow together,
Speaker 1: and so there was no anger. So it was like, yes,
Speaker 1: the first Christmas was really sad because it was the
Speaker 1: first Christmas I had spent without him. Um. And then
Speaker 1: you know, one day later, I met my husband out
Speaker 1: at a nightclub and headset with him the first time.
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't know that I'm the best. I
Speaker 1: did some research and we're bringing professionals in. That's fantastic.
Speaker 1: That's one way to get over it. Just move on.
Speaker 1: I mean the first couple of months Edwin and I
Speaker 1: were very messy because both of us were kind of
Speaker 1: not in a place where you you know, you think
Speaker 1: you're ready to be in a committed relationships, so we weren't.
Speaker 1: And then it just with time he realized like, oh,
Speaker 1: I kind of like this person. I should probably make
Speaker 1: an effort and it's not just a one night stand,
Speaker 1: because now it's been six months, and shoot, I love
Speaker 1: this freaking guy. You know, And when did you have
Speaker 1: the exclusivity conversation? I think the first time, well, it
Speaker 1: was two big combos. So he used to have a ponytail.
Speaker 1: He hit at night one that it was disguised and
Speaker 1: a hat like it was a hat like he had
Speaker 1: a bean me on and I didn't realize. And then
Speaker 1: the next morning I woke up at like six to
Speaker 1: my alarm and I was like, oh no, this is
Speaker 1: a hard note for me. I'm like, you gotta get
Speaker 1: out of here. And he's like, I'm like, you have
Speaker 1: a ponytail. This is a real situation. He was like,
Speaker 1: you didn't seem to mind last night. I was like,
Speaker 1: no time for kind of sexual INU window jokes either,
Speaker 1: like let's sip through it um. But we we had
Speaker 1: a lot of fun together, and then what ended up
Speaker 1: happening there was a wedding that we had gotten more
Speaker 1: serious where we were seeing each other a couple of
Speaker 1: times a week and I had a wedding hand needed
Speaker 1: to take him to. And I was like, you need
Speaker 1: to cut your ponytail and I need to know what
Speaker 1: to call you. But really what ended up happening is
Speaker 1: it led us to much more serious conversations about how
Speaker 1: we both need to make the decision if we're ready
Speaker 1: to commit, and then also if I'm going to be
Speaker 1: meeting his daughter. And then honestly, once I met his daughter,
Speaker 1: everything changed. He no longer was the guy I met
Speaker 1: at the club. He was a dad, and Isabella changed
Speaker 1: my life. I fell in love with her and everything
Speaker 1: became more serious then because you know, I was able
Speaker 1: to see the full picture and I was able to
Speaker 1: see our life together, and I knew all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I did want children, and that I wanted to be
Speaker 1: a part of Edwin's life and Isabella's life, and I
Speaker 1: didn't want to be somebody that was committing or wasn't
Speaker 1: having those conversations that's beautiful. So I mean that was
Speaker 1: really how it was for us. It was once I
Speaker 1: got close with once I met his daughter, then everything
Speaker 1: started shifting. We you know, we had the conversation prior,
Speaker 1: because before even meeting his daughter, we wanted to have
Speaker 1: that conversation as right. So it was a wedding, his
Speaker 1: daughter everything. And you know that's why when people say like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's it's got to be right timing or this has
Speaker 1: to happen, I just I don't necessarily believe that. I
Speaker 1: think if it's going to happen, it's going to happen,
Speaker 1: and if you both really wanted to make it work,
Speaker 1: you can you can't, but you both have to be
Speaker 1: in the space correct And I don't But I don't
Speaker 1: think there's any amount of games or anything like that
Speaker 1: that you're gonna do that's going to make some guy
Speaker 1: more into you than he is get over another situation
Speaker 1: and or commit. Yeah, it's impossible. And when people like, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe if I wait longer to text back, I'm like,
Speaker 1: absolutely not there. Either I cue enough that they don't
Speaker 1: care when you text back, or they don't exactly. We
Speaker 1: have Samantha Burns coming on from love successfully dot Com
Speaker 1: and she is going to help us just truly with
Speaker 1: breakup tips. Samantha yea, Hi, it's Teddy and Gin here. Hi. Hi,
Speaker 1: how's it going. We're good, We're good. We're excited to
Speaker 1: have you on. Thanks so much for inviting me. So
Speaker 1: we're just getting right to business. We we really just
Speaker 1: need to know if you're in the throes of like
Speaker 1: a terrible breakup, what are five things someone can do
Speaker 1: to move on and heal? And like we can't get
Speaker 1: the like you need to take a bath because like
Speaker 1: someone told us that and we're all wrapped up about it.
Speaker 1: We need, We need real things you can do. Okay,
Speaker 1: so let's jump in the first thing you need to
Speaker 1: do is understand that the pain you're in is actually
Speaker 1: a physiological withdrawal from love. So what I mean by
Speaker 1: that is we know through neuroscience studies, so when you
Speaker 1: fall in love, you become physically addicted to your partner,
Speaker 1: and it obtivates the same brain regions that you see
Speaker 1: in drugs, alcohol, gambling, different types of addiction. So when
Speaker 1: we go through a breakup and we can't communicate with
Speaker 1: our X and we can't get their physical affection and
Speaker 1: we don't spend time with them anymore, our body goes
Speaker 1: through withdrawals and our minds a grubbing itself up, looking
Speaker 1: for that next fix, that next hie. And that's why
Speaker 1: we stop our X on social media, we drive by
Speaker 1: their apartments, we can't get them off of our mind.
Speaker 1: So if you can reframe your breakup pain instead of
Speaker 1: it being the one that got away, turn it into
Speaker 1: this is just a physical process of how my body
Speaker 1: responds to falling out of love. That's cool. I actually
Speaker 1: a loss of words right now. Okay, So that's one way.
Speaker 1: What's what's our next is so of course that healthy
Speaker 1: boundaries because your brain and body needs time and space
Speaker 1: to fall out of love. So you have to go
Speaker 1: around and set healthy boundaries like removing them from social media,
Speaker 1: taking down old photos, taking their number out of your
Speaker 1: speed dial, basically removing any triggers. So people places things
Speaker 1: in your life that reminds you of your ex, and
Speaker 1: I know that back to you really hard if you
Speaker 1: might work together or you share kids together. But as
Speaker 1: much as possible, minimize, minimize different triggers in your environment.
Speaker 1: And how do you do that if you see your
Speaker 1: ex with maybe a new partner. So we have to
Speaker 1: also face reality that our partner is our X I
Speaker 1: should say, is going to be dating new people and
Speaker 1: that can be really hard. Um, which I think also
Speaker 1: ties into another tips is that like your your partner's
Speaker 1: inability to see your worth doesn't mean that you don't
Speaker 1: have any, so don't. Um. You should never have to
Speaker 1: convince or beg someone to see you with you or
Speaker 1: love you. So when you see them with a new partner,
Speaker 1: kind of said, you know what they weren't They weren't
Speaker 1: my person. And if you do the work and you know,
Speaker 1: I'm a breakup coach. I help people get from that
Speaker 1: place of I just lost the love of my life
Speaker 1: to thank God, I just dodged a bullet. So when
Speaker 1: you do the work, you're gonna be like, oh, good riddance,
Speaker 1: like that person can have them. Okay, I love that.
Speaker 1: Samantha makes sense. Alright us too. Now we're moving on
Speaker 1: to number three. Okodness, let's see put me on the spot.
Speaker 1: I think, um, you can do it. Avoid what I
Speaker 1: call the frank and boyfriend effect. So the frank and
Speaker 1: boyfriend is when you start digging again. So many people
Speaker 1: make the mistake of trying to find a new partner
Speaker 1: who has all of the qualities that you adored and
Speaker 1: cherished about your ex mixed with all of the things
Speaker 1: that they were lacking. And you're trying to create this
Speaker 1: mythical Frank and boyfriend of human being. And that just
Speaker 1: keeps these stuff looking backwards instead of really reopening your heart,
Speaker 1: um to someone knew who has different qualities and attributes
Speaker 1: and interests. Does that go the same as like, uh,
Speaker 1: I have a type, this is my type. I'm only
Speaker 1: looking for this type. Is that the same? And how
Speaker 1: do you get out of that pattern? So that's a
Speaker 1: million dollar question, I actually passed that and breaking up
Speaker 1: and advancing back that has more to do So, yes,
Speaker 1: we are attracted to certain physical types and features, but
Speaker 1: that has more to do with your attachment style. So
Speaker 1: when we talk about attachment style, what that is is
Speaker 1: your level of comfort with intimacy and closeness in a relationship.
Speaker 1: And what we see over and over again is typically
Speaker 1: if you're someone who really desperately wants of an affection,
Speaker 1: you also tend to be someone who maybe is afraid
Speaker 1: of being rejected, who's afraid that your partner is going
Speaker 1: to leave you. You might be afraid that they won't
Speaker 1: like the version of you once they get to know
Speaker 1: the real you. And we tend to attract people who
Speaker 1: they're issue is they are uncomfortable with closeness and intimacy
Speaker 1: and they tend to sabotage relationships by they're basically like
Speaker 1: the bad boy or the game players. So they have
Speaker 1: what's called an avoidant attachment style, and they don't like
Speaker 1: their freedom being encroached upon. So they basically, if you
Speaker 1: think of seximis city um Carry and Big were that
Speaker 1: perfect example of he was anxious, he was avoidant, and
Speaker 1: they went around and around it in these cycles. So
Speaker 1: when we talk about the type, it's really ultimately like,
Speaker 1: are we at passing people who are going to hurt
Speaker 1: us leave us, who aren't truly emotionally available? And we
Speaker 1: tend to repeat those comments until we feel some of
Speaker 1: our more longstanding childhood wounds or wounds from past relationships. Okay,
Speaker 1: so nine times out of ten it's something in your
Speaker 1: past that you just haven't worked through that's just drawing
Speaker 1: you to this person over and over and over again. Yes,
Speaker 1: And that person can come in different passages, right, They
Speaker 1: can look like different people, they can have different jobs
Speaker 1: that ultimately, like that core wound keeps getting tapped into
Speaker 1: over and over again. Okay, So what about in the
Speaker 1: form of a cheater and it's not someone you're dating,
Speaker 1: it's somebody you're married to, Um, how do you come
Speaker 1: to or you have kids even together, how do you
Speaker 1: come to terms with leaving that person? Or will they
Speaker 1: actually change? Or what is it in us that makes
Speaker 1: us want to stay? Yeah? So that's such an end
Speaker 1: up question, um that I always tell people when I
Speaker 1: work through with couples through infidelity, I say, there's no
Speaker 1: shame in leaving, and there's no shame in staying. And
Speaker 1: it's such an individualized descision, UM, like you that taking
Speaker 1: into account kids and history and finances, there's so much.
Speaker 1: But ultimately, UM, we need to be in a relationship
Speaker 1: that honor are worth. And usually when we have low
Speaker 1: self esteem or we don't think we're worthy of love
Speaker 1: and commitment UM, or you know, we have these past
Speaker 1: wounds that keep getting activated, we kind of start settling
Speaker 1: and we start putting up with less than we deserve.
Speaker 1: And then when I see people sticking it out too
Speaker 1: long in relationships, it's because they've invested time and energy
Speaker 1: and love and commitment and finances and they almost feel
Speaker 1: like it's a failure if they were to leave. And
Speaker 1: what I always emphasize is that there's no failures in
Speaker 1: relationships if you and and also for the longevity of
Speaker 1: which you're with someone, you don't get like an award
Speaker 1: if you're in an a miserable marriage for twenty years, UM,
Speaker 1: versus if you call it off with someone after a year,
Speaker 1: after a great relationship, that you ultimately realize they're not
Speaker 1: your person. Because we can love someone m that it
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that they our best match. So in the
Speaker 1: case of infidelity. I mean, of course, always go work
Speaker 1: with a professional to sort through it. One thing I
Speaker 1: see sometimes you know couples, I've worked with couples who
Speaker 1: come out stronger on the other side of enough their infidelity.
Speaker 1: But there has to be commitment to strengthening the relationship.
Speaker 1: There has to be remorse, there has to be accountability, um,
Speaker 1: and there has to be changed. So if your partner
Speaker 1: to be straying is not willing to put in the work,
Speaker 1: then you need to walk away um before you And
Speaker 1: that's even more emotional energy and time. And you also
Speaker 1: have to be able to look in the mirror and say,
Speaker 1: how have I potentially contributed to relationships to satisfaction That
Speaker 1: doesn't have to a part in their behavior right for
Speaker 1: cheating or straying. That you have to be able to
Speaker 1: look at yourself and say, where can I take responsibility
Speaker 1: for this? And then also just taking it a little
Speaker 1: bit to the side. A lot of what I've realized
Speaker 1: in my life and I've seen throughout is I've had
Speaker 1: either friends or maybe it's a brother or sister whom
Speaker 1: I have where it is that's in a bad relationship,
Speaker 1: you're watching it happen. They're kind of quiet about it.
Speaker 1: Every once in a while you'll get a piece of
Speaker 1: like this is happening. I want to get out of it.
Speaker 1: I don't know how What is your best way to
Speaker 1: be a supportive friend and help that person without them
Speaker 1: then closing off because sometimes I'm a little bit of
Speaker 1: a note it. Also, I like we'll over talk about
Speaker 1: like come on, you know, he's a total narcissist. He's
Speaker 1: not coming home at night. It's obvious what he's doing,
Speaker 1: you know, And that's not necessarily the most helpful way
Speaker 1: to be a friend. So how do you think you
Speaker 1: can help build your friend up? But also you're still
Speaker 1: in your lane. I know that that is such a
Speaker 1: delicate balance. Um So I think empathy is always is
Speaker 1: always an important like communication skill and just human still
Speaker 1: in general. So when your friend expressive concerns or you
Speaker 1: can see there in pain, first making an empathetic non
Speaker 1: just mental comments like I can see you're really hurt,
Speaker 1: or hey, I've noticed you seem really stress lately, look
Speaker 1: what's going on? Or you know, gosh, I would feel
Speaker 1: really upset to in that situation. So first just to
Speaker 1: get them to sausen by feeling empathy, and once they're
Speaker 1: feeling like hurt or understood, then maybe UM, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: necessarily give your opinion unless they're asked or you say, hey,
Speaker 1: do you want my thoughts on this? Or how can
Speaker 1: I support you? Um, And at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: you can, you know, plant little seeds like, hey, I
Speaker 1: noticed that you seem really unhappy or dissatisfied in your
Speaker 1: marriage lately. Are you okay? Or what's going on? Kind
Speaker 1: of asking the open ended questions so like they can
Speaker 1: take you where they want to go. But the worst
Speaker 1: thing ever is like if you point out something to
Speaker 1: them and they're not ready to hear it, they're just
Speaker 1: gonna get offensive and full away from you even though
Speaker 1: you're trying to point out what air partner is makes sense?
Speaker 1: What about the friend that just never stops talking about
Speaker 1: the breakup five years later, six years later, ten years later.
Speaker 1: So so you get them a copy of my book,
Speaker 1: you have them come into my coaching program, and they
Speaker 1: need to realize like that they need some serious help,
Speaker 1: because I've lot of people come to me who are
Speaker 1: in like just twenty or miserable marriages and they're like
Speaker 1: finally taking the process of getting divorced or they put
Speaker 1: their ex on the pedestal and they have these rose
Speaker 1: colored glasses and all of that is just so painful,
Speaker 1: like being stuck and ruminating and obsessing. And that's where
Speaker 1: I see people rated the moment most amount of times,
Speaker 1: and actually too they talk to that point. There's absolute
Speaker 1: stages of break up Greeks that we go through, similar
Speaker 1: to when we grieve a death of someone. So you know,
Speaker 1: if you've ever talked to a widow or something who's
Speaker 1: still breathing a death for a long time. We we
Speaker 1: get stuck in those same stages. So we go through
Speaker 1: shock and denial, anger, bargaining, and anxiety. So bargaining can
Speaker 1: make it work, making like promises that you'll go to
Speaker 1: therapy or that you'll team anxiety. I added anxiety into
Speaker 1: the stages of brief because I think that's where we
Speaker 1: do ruminate and obsess over this breakup and we kind
Speaker 1: of have difficulty letting go, and eventually they go through
Speaker 1: depression and finally acceptance. And the problem is it doesn't
Speaker 1: always go in a linear question, so we can bounce
Speaker 1: around from the stages, which is one day maybe we
Speaker 1: feel like we're finally getting over it, but then we
Speaker 1: bump into our ex with their new partner, and it
Speaker 1: kind of sends us back into those earlier stages of
Speaker 1: anger or depressions. Um, so it's gonna be ruling process
Speaker 1: to get over a breakup, and there's no set amount
Speaker 1: of time, and there's no set amount of time. I
Speaker 1: always say, like, you know, everyone grieves in a different way.
Speaker 1: But for me, it's like if you're not seeing them
Speaker 1: progressed through the stages and have more signs of acceptance.
Speaker 1: So to me, acceptance means you know, you might not
Speaker 1: be happy about the outcome of the relationship ended, that
Speaker 1: you're at a more contented place, you're at peace with
Speaker 1: what's happened, and you also have optimism about your own
Speaker 1: future dating life and reopening your heart. So they're just
Speaker 1: stuff more not anger and grief. Like that's what I
Speaker 1: would say. You know, it's more than a few weeks,
Speaker 1: is probably more than a few months even but by
Speaker 1: that year point, if they are making no effort to
Speaker 1: take care of themselves to let go their harboring anger, um,
Speaker 1: they're really depressed and having difficulty even like getting out
Speaker 1: of better going to work, where they're abusing drugs and alcohol.
Speaker 1: That's the time to say, hey, it sounds like maybe
Speaker 1: you could use some professional support. Yeah, that's true. And
Speaker 1: then my last question, I know that I'm keeping you
Speaker 1: longer than I should, but I have so many questions.
Speaker 1: What about when it comes to loneliness or the fear
Speaker 1: of loneliness. I feel like so many people don't end
Speaker 1: up breaking up or ending a bad relationship because they
Speaker 1: just don't want to be alone and they don't really
Speaker 1: have a network of friends or whatever because they've kept
Speaker 1: so far just inside of this dysfunctional relationship that they
Speaker 1: don't really have anyone left. Right. So there's this really
Speaker 1: interesting uh psychological research that found that when we don't
Speaker 1: know the outcome of like making a big change or
Speaker 1: taking a risk, if we can't guarantee ourselves that the
Speaker 1: outcome is going to be better, so we're in a grumpy,
Speaker 1: horrible relationship and we don't know for a fact that
Speaker 1: we're going to meet Prince Charming and live happily ever after,
Speaker 1: we actually don't make change and it's really hard. So
Speaker 1: that's why you see so many people stuck in these lousy,
Speaker 1: dead end relationships. Um and so loneliness it's kind of
Speaker 1: for them, it's going to be about learning to strengthen
Speaker 1: their sense of self and rediscover their identity. And so
Speaker 1: in a big breakup, we often feel really lost or
Speaker 1: even in a toxic relationship, we feel like we've lost ourselves.
Speaker 1: And so the breakup process from beginning to date again
Speaker 1: is all about rediscovering yourself, working towards goals and hobbies
Speaker 1: and interests like creating your own fulfilling life. That means
Speaker 1: making new friends, investing. I'm into yourself. Um, I think
Speaker 1: over time and an unhealthy relationship are like self esteem
Speaker 1: gets tripped away, and so we don't think we're worthy
Speaker 1: or deserving something better, or we don't even know how
Speaker 1: bad it's gotten. So when you do have the courage
Speaker 1: to end a relationship where you're not happy, then this
Speaker 1: whole time, this is kind of transitional time into getting
Speaker 1: ready to date again, is all about investing in yourself.
Speaker 1: So we know the common theme. You have to take
Speaker 1: care of yourself in order to move on from any
Speaker 1: relationship or feel your best, you have to invest in yourself.
Speaker 1: Self care. Self care so totally, and self care like
Speaker 1: that is an act of love and respect and value
Speaker 1: to yourself every day and so many people you know,
Speaker 1: especially in my industry with dating and break up, the
Speaker 1: term like self love gets tossed around, and I just
Speaker 1: like to debunce the myth like we don't love ourselves
Speaker 1: a hundred percent of a time every single day. It's
Speaker 1: the same way that you create how happiness? Will you
Speaker 1: create self love by doing these little acts of self
Speaker 1: care whether it is, um, you know, making new friends
Speaker 1: or going to the gym or eating healthy like whatever
Speaker 1: it is, that's respecting yourself, your body, your mind, meditating. Um,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a daily practice. So I just like
Speaker 1: to I think people think like, oh, I love myself today,
Speaker 1: so therefore I will love myself tomorrow. And that's a myth.
Speaker 1: It's like a daily intentional act. Well, I love it.
Speaker 1: I think I love myself today. You know what, I'm
Speaker 1: not writing it down right here? Uh no. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much, so many great tips for our listeners and
Speaker 1: you know, for even us, So we appreciate it. Thank you,
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. Bye good bye. So now we're back.
Speaker 1: And I originally was turned on to Catherine because a
Speaker 1: friend of mine has read your book and she is
Speaker 1: following all of the steps and so like the journal
Speaker 1: with what do I love to do what comes naturally
Speaker 1: to me. What do I feel passionate about? She was
Speaker 1: telling me about these things, and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: now I need to really dig into these breakups. We
Speaker 1: have so many questions. I figured, maybe first you could
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about yourself and what led
Speaker 1: you to start on this. Well, who else would make
Speaker 1: it their life's mission to have healthy, happy love than
Speaker 1: someone who had a decades of unhealthy unhappy I mean,
Speaker 1: that's really where I started. I think, Um, you know,
Speaker 1: we have some most of us have some relational traumas
Speaker 1: in our youth, and that causes us difficulty as we
Speaker 1: get older. In my situation, I had my mother was
Speaker 1: pregnant at eighteen, and this is in the fifties, so
Speaker 1: you definitely got married if you were pregnant, and they
Speaker 1: had kind of a disaster us marriage, a disastrous divorce.
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of people, a lot of anger
Speaker 1: and hostility that kind of festered around for a lot
Speaker 1: of years. And uh, and so consequently I was kind
Speaker 1: of a poster child for unconscious uncoupling, for what happened
Speaker 1: in a nasty divorce to the kids that I really struggled.
Speaker 1: I had like addiction issues. I had self esteem issues.
Speaker 1: It was incredibly codependent. I had um insecure attachment. I
Speaker 1: was totally love avoidant. I wanted love. It was like
Speaker 1: the central drama of my life. But anybody who got
Speaker 1: too close, I pushed them away as quickly as I could,
Speaker 1: like I was just you know, kind of a messed
Speaker 1: up girl. And and that fortunately led me into therapy
Speaker 1: and into transformational work and into meditation and spiritual work.
Speaker 1: And I basically made it my full time job to
Speaker 1: work on myself for years. It was also a singer
Speaker 1: songwriter and and mostly a waitress for years while I
Speaker 1: did all this and um and then one foot in
Speaker 1: front of the other. I'm just somebody who kind of
Speaker 1: when I work it out, I like to share it
Speaker 1: with people, and somehow became a therapist in the process.
Speaker 1: It was a very organic process. And when I was
Speaker 1: in my early forties, after all of these kind of
Speaker 1: disastrous love relationships, where my main pattern was unavailable people
Speaker 1: because when I lost connection with my dad was because
Speaker 1: he went to his wife. So I always had like
Speaker 1: this married men thing because I was going to get
Speaker 1: the guy back, right, So I had, you know, any
Speaker 1: kind of impossible love I was in but when I
Speaker 1: was in my forties, I really was learning about transformation
Speaker 1: and metaphysical principles. And I created a miracle just by
Speaker 1: standing for a future that wasn't predictable and organ organizing
Speaker 1: like who would I need to be to fulfill in
Speaker 1: that future? And I ended up connecting with this beautiful
Speaker 1: man who I dated six years earlier, who I thought
Speaker 1: of for years is the one that got away in
Speaker 1: this very magical way. And we got married and had baby,
Speaker 1: my first baby, my only baby, at the age of
Speaker 1: forty three. And then I thought, well, I know a
Speaker 1: lot of other people are struggling and suffering, So what
Speaker 1: did I just do to create this? And that's what
Speaker 1: became then calling in the one seven Weeks to attract
Speaker 1: the love of your life. And then it went and
Speaker 1: I wrote a book about it and became a national bestseller,
Speaker 1: and I started teaching, and then I had thousands of
Speaker 1: students from all over the world, and I had this,
Speaker 1: you know, an online course, and I have a coach
Speaker 1: training and I'm known throughout the world for helping people
Speaker 1: to manifest a miracle, particularly those who had a really
Speaker 1: tough time and love. And then ten years in my
Speaker 1: husband and I got divorced. I had a little pr problem,
Speaker 1: think you're going there, so good, so so, but the
Speaker 1: saving graces, we did it really well because we both
Speaker 1: had come from families where the parents were divorced, and
Speaker 1: we both had had that parental alienation thing. I lost
Speaker 1: connection with my father, he lost connection with his mother.
Speaker 1: So we made a decision to just figure out what
Speaker 1: it looks like to be a happy post divorced family
Speaker 1: so that our daughter could have a happy childhood. And
Speaker 1: that's what we did, and that then became conscious uncoupling,
Speaker 1: which then Gwyneth Paltrow heard of and kicked into the lexicon.
Speaker 1: So in a perfect world, I think you do conscious
Speaker 1: uncoupling before calling in the one, so that you're free
Speaker 1: and clear and you're not bringing baggage into a relationship.
Speaker 1: But it's really good, I am. But then I when
Speaker 1: I was ready, after you know a few years after that,
Speaker 1: then I decided to recouple, and I recently called in
Speaker 1: the next one. So I'm very happily partner. Where are you, Frisen?
Speaker 1: It's absolutely amazing to me, Like I just called him
Speaker 1: in wait up, like I had, you know, six vodka
Speaker 1: SODA's night Dad's called him, right, Yeah, that was my call,
Speaker 1: my dating call. Um. Wow, that's incredible. Yeah. So anyway,
Speaker 1: I and and of course I'm a psychotherapist now, so
Speaker 1: I mean the work is actually quite deep when you
Speaker 1: really stop to think, like how are we getting in
Speaker 1: our own way? It's quite deep and it's quite profound.
Speaker 1: And the reason I love to look at it like
Speaker 1: that is because I think we feel so powerless if
Speaker 1: we've had bit toxic patterns. Like you know, if you
Speaker 1: want to go get a medical degree, you kind of
Speaker 1: know I need to get these scores, I need to
Speaker 1: go to school for this many years, Like it's a
Speaker 1: pretty clear path. But if you want to say I
Speaker 1: want to create true love, and all you've ever had
Speaker 1: is kind of messed up love, and you come from
Speaker 1: this really screwed up fat background, and there's even maybe
Speaker 1: a normal kind of screwed up background, but you still
Speaker 1: have problems. You feel kind of hopeless about it. So
Speaker 1: the key to accessing powers to really take profound personal
Speaker 1: responsibility for how we are the source of our patterns.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't occur like that incurs like men are
Speaker 1: like this, women are like this, dating sites are like this.
Speaker 1: There's no good men in my city. There's no you know,
Speaker 1: it just it really likes a lot of reasons external
Speaker 1: to us. But if you really say, okay, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm the through line of all of the patterns, and
Speaker 1: so it's almost like you're taking accountability for anything that's
Speaker 1: happening with the accounability to coach yourself. That's right. It's
Speaker 1: internal accountability to live consistent according to the future you're
Speaker 1: standing for. So even if you've gotten into multiple bad relationships,
Speaker 1: instead of saying it's because he was a narcissist, he's
Speaker 1: a cheater or this and that, it's you taking in
Speaker 1: what it is that you've put out there and why
Speaker 1: you continue to attract these men. Yeah, And so I
Speaker 1: like to say, because especially in a breakup, like people
Speaker 1: are so filled with there's you know, and probably the
Speaker 1: other person did behave badly, you know, if you're filled
Speaker 1: with feeling of having been victimized. But I'd like to say,
Speaker 1: even if it's the other person's fault, the gold is
Speaker 1: in your three percent, because you have to be able
Speaker 1: to trust yourself to never do this again. So that
Speaker 1: kind of brings me to a question that you know,
Speaker 1: if you are in a pattern where you consistently going
Speaker 1: after a married man or a married woman, or you're
Speaker 1: okay being cheated on repeatedly. Are these things like, what
Speaker 1: are what are ways that you can stop that pattern? Well,
Speaker 1: a lot of us are doing our work. You know,
Speaker 1: we're looking backwards, which is good. You know what happened
Speaker 1: in my childhood, who did happen with, where did it happen?
Speaker 1: And we're all kind of steeped in that world. But
Speaker 1: I think the fastest track to change something that's been
Speaker 1: a habitual pattern that's given you pain is to start
Speaker 1: with the future. Right, So you actually say, look, I'm
Speaker 1: going to set an intention. And this is what I
Speaker 1: did when I was in my early forties. I was
Speaker 1: with a group of people were all like supporting each
Speaker 1: other to set intentions. One person doubled their income, another
Speaker 1: person bought a house for the first time. And I
Speaker 1: had just had like another crash and burn with some
Speaker 1: man I thought was available who wasn't, And so I
Speaker 1: was So I was in so much pain that I
Speaker 1: called up a friend and I said, Okay, I know
Speaker 1: this is crazy, but I'm gonna I'm gonna just set
Speaker 1: an intention to be engaged by my second birthday and
Speaker 1: that was eight months away, and I had no prospects
Speaker 1: where I have been living right one and I've been
Speaker 1: trying to find the one for like two decades by then.
Speaker 1: But she said something that really changed my life because
Speaker 1: she said, Catherine, I'm going to hold that intention with
Speaker 1: you if you give me permission to hold you accountable
Speaker 1: to being the woman you would need to be in
Speaker 1: order for that to happen, so all the changes you
Speaker 1: need to actually and it shifted my focus immediately. Like
Speaker 1: I said, I wasn't running out to find love. I
Speaker 1: really was going within. I was connecting with my intuition.
Speaker 1: I was taking personal responsibility, but not like a psychological issue.
Speaker 1: I think the key to all of transformation is getting
Speaker 1: out of victimization and taking personal responsibility. And sometimes when
Speaker 1: we do our work, we're looking backwards. We're kind of like, well,
Speaker 1: my mother did this to me and my brother did that,
Speaker 1: so we're kind of looking at it from a victimized perspective.
Speaker 1: So what we have to do is to say, yes,
Speaker 1: that happened, and what did I make it mean about me?
Speaker 1: And how have I been living out inside of that
Speaker 1: that worldview in a way that keeps perpetuating it. How
Speaker 1: am I showing up and relating to people in a
Speaker 1: way that's communicating that I'm not valuable, or that's communicating
Speaker 1: that I'm invisible and I'm somehow there needs matter more
Speaker 1: than mine, Like we have to actually see because when
Speaker 1: you can really see the specifics of how you're showing
Speaker 1: up in that way, that's keeping that story alive. That's
Speaker 1: when you get to make a different choice and you
Speaker 1: get to actually say no, I need to I need
Speaker 1: to let that go. Like maybe that was something I
Speaker 1: did when I was twelve, a decision I made, and
Speaker 1: then I've been trying to keep myself safe. Like I'm
Speaker 1: twelve and I have no skills, but I'm an adult
Speaker 1: woman now I know how to keep myself safe. I
Speaker 1: can learn some skills that I didn't have back then,
Speaker 1: and we take responsibility for like growing ourselves in a
Speaker 1: way that would allow health and happiness and love to
Speaker 1: finally happen for us. So I have a question though,
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of our listeners wrote in and said,
Speaker 1: you know, I've been married for you know, seven years.
Speaker 1: My husband's cheated on me two times. You know how
Speaker 1: many times do I forgive him or you know, my
Speaker 1: husband and I are great, but then sometimes I feel
Speaker 1: like maybe he is emotionally abusing me because of some
Speaker 1: of the words he says, and then I feel like
Speaker 1: I lash out, Like there's people in unhealthy marriages that
Speaker 1: don't really know when it's time to say goodbye. Well,
Speaker 1: a lot of people, by the way, who are in
Speaker 1: marriages and are committed to stay in marriages actually do
Speaker 1: the conscious uncoupling process that I created because there's there's
Speaker 1: some missing development that would allow the relationships to actually
Speaker 1: realize their potential for greater happiness. Can you explain that
Speaker 1: to me in an easier for example. So, for example,
Speaker 1: just to even know your own filters, right, So, if
Speaker 1: you have a if you have like a wounding in
Speaker 1: your past where you had like a narcissistic mother, let's say,
Speaker 1: so you always have this feeling like I'm not good
Speaker 1: enough and always have to prove myself. So you're and
Speaker 1: how you're showing up in the relationship is kind of
Speaker 1: you're always looking for approval, You're always looking for validation,
Speaker 1: or you're always doing something to try and earn the
Speaker 1: other person's love. And and any time they do something,
Speaker 1: let's say they do something horrible. They cheat. The filter
Speaker 1: you have is see I'm not good enough. That becomes
Speaker 1: evidence for that filter. So you're not actually dealing with
Speaker 1: it from an adult center. You're kind of this wounded
Speaker 1: eight year old again who's who's kind of now stuck
Speaker 1: with more evidence that somehow you're not good enough, and
Speaker 1: you know now you're compiling evidence. So I think what
Speaker 1: the conscious uncoupling process does, we're calling in the one.
Speaker 1: I mean, basically all of my work is to really
Speaker 1: unpack how we are showing up in a way that
Speaker 1: almost pulls on people to kind of validate the old story,
Speaker 1: and that when we're in that story, we're centered in
Speaker 1: that story emotionally because most of us tend to believe
Speaker 1: everything we feel. So if you're kind of triggered into
Speaker 1: that experience again, you're literally kind of showing up trying
Speaker 1: to repair from an eight year old center as opposed
Speaker 1: to a more adult center, which is very grounded in
Speaker 1: your value and may be very grounded in the value
Speaker 1: of your marriage, and so you might end up fighting
Speaker 1: for that marriage. But something is going to change in
Speaker 1: the dynamic between you and your partner, and you're and
Speaker 1: you can you can't change it from the eight year old,
Speaker 1: you can change it from the adults setting new boundaries
Speaker 1: and yes, but see, I like to work on a
Speaker 1: consciousness level first, because it's not behavioral what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: It ends up out picturing on a behavioral level. But
Speaker 1: we all know, like you know, sometimes the communication skills class,
Speaker 1: you take all that stuff, or you learn how to
Speaker 1: speak with eye statements, and they still don't work, and
Speaker 1: you're still kind of left with the residue of, you know,
Speaker 1: being humiliated or mistreated in that relationship. You think that
Speaker 1: if somebody is in a situation where they're humiliating you
Speaker 1: or they're any of those types of things, that they
Speaker 1: can change. Yeah, and the only way it's going to
Speaker 1: change is if you see your role in it. And
Speaker 1: that's why I start with the person, not because I
Speaker 1: think the person is to quote unquote blame. Never can
Speaker 1: I give a weird example. This is just what came
Speaker 1: into my mind. So I have a guy friend, let's say,
Speaker 1: who we communicate differently. I need a lot of communication.
Speaker 1: He needs like minimal communication. But I'm really trying to say, like, hey,
Speaker 1: just hit me back if you're busy. So I know
Speaker 1: you're busy, and then I won't worry about it. So
Speaker 1: the other day I had sent a text and called
Speaker 1: and he hit back and said, can't talk. I'm really
Speaker 1: busy today. And my initial reaction was like yuck, like
Speaker 1: why is he writing that? And I was all kind
Speaker 1: of about it, and then I took a minute and realized, like,
Speaker 1: that's all about me. He's doing exactly what I sort
Speaker 1: of wanted him, and now it's landing on me weird
Speaker 1: because I feel like, oh, he's too busy for me,
Speaker 1: Like I just try to stood up again. So I
Speaker 1: took a beat and was like, oh, he's being cool.
Speaker 1: It's like we internalize everything. No matter what we do,
Speaker 1: you can't win. Well, you can if you wake yourself up,
Speaker 1: like we all have certain defaults. I've actually been unpacking
Speaker 1: for over a decade now what I call like the
Speaker 1: twenty one most salient core beliefs, and that becomes the filter.
Speaker 1: And here's the thing about core beliefs. If you have
Speaker 1: like an I'm alone, for example, inside of the energetic
Speaker 1: of that, which is i e. The emotions of that,
Speaker 1: like loneliness, you feel kind of separate from people. You
Speaker 1: feel like you're on the outside looking in that nobody
Speaker 1: really cares about you, that everyone's always going to leave you,
Speaker 1: so you have anxiety. Like you know, beliefs are not
Speaker 1: in the mind, they're actually in the body, like an
Speaker 1: emotional default place. So when you're centered there, what you
Speaker 1: might do when somebody disappoints you is kind of put
Speaker 1: up a wall and do a preemptive strike of just
Speaker 1: kind of energetically pushing them away. Totally. I've been having
Speaker 1: a conversation in my head for about two months now
Speaker 1: that has not happened, like in this attempt to prepare
Speaker 1: myself for what could happen, and I finally was like,
Speaker 1: I'm done with that, Like it's so dumb, it's so dumb.
Speaker 1: I love that you're so self aware. This is so
Speaker 1: cool because what you want to do well, but so
Speaker 1: so you're like in the middle of the breed canal,
Speaker 1: but you know you have this filter and that you're
Speaker 1: interpreting a certain way that almost sets people up and
Speaker 1: sets that situation up because if you energytic, I couldn't
Speaker 1: win because I was already yeah, that's it, right. So
Speaker 1: I finally said, like I'm not gonna like try and
Speaker 1: have this conversation in my head, all right, so let
Speaker 1: me give you a trick about it. Let me give
Speaker 1: you a trick when you notice that, and maybe it's
Speaker 1: an invisibility, Maybe it's an a loneness. Maybe it's a
Speaker 1: feeling of not being good enough. Maybe it's not feeling
Speaker 1: wanted by anyone. So you're always kind of anticipating people
Speaker 1: don't like you and they're going to reject you. You
Speaker 1: have to take a deep breath and ask yourself, how
Speaker 1: old am I here? It's a young, huge part of you.
Speaker 1: Something happened. It was either like an acute crisis or
Speaker 1: is what we call a developmental crisis where you never
Speaker 1: really got what you needed over period of time. But
Speaker 1: you have to then extend love to that part of
Speaker 1: you and say, sweetheart, let me tell you what's really
Speaker 1: true about this idea that you're not loved or you're
Speaker 1: not wanted or you're all alone. And then you start
Speaker 1: with you know, if it's I'm alone, you say, I'm
Speaker 1: right here with you. You're not alone, I'm here, I
Speaker 1: love you, we're together. Right, you're kind of befriending that
Speaker 1: wounded part of yourself. But then there's a whole different
Speaker 1: set of skills that you might not know. So your
Speaker 1: way of dealing with conflict is number one, to avoid it,
Speaker 1: because God forbid any conflict happened, because that's the beginning
Speaker 1: of the end if you have that cluster of beliefs.
Speaker 1: But you also might then put up a wall and
Speaker 1: push people away energetically, which gives them the signal they
Speaker 1: should leave now, which then fulfills on your you know,
Speaker 1: your worldview. Um, but what you need to do is
Speaker 1: learn like something that is maybe completely foreign too, which
Speaker 1: is when there's a breakdown, you pick up the phone,
Speaker 1: you say, Hey, I really care about our relationship matters
Speaker 1: to me. I'm noticing that I'm feeling kind of disconnected
Speaker 1: and a little out of the loop with you, and
Speaker 1: I wonder if we could talk about it, because I
Speaker 1: want to make sure that we're good. It's so interesting
Speaker 1: that you say that, because, um, I would say the
Speaker 1: hardest time and that I've had in my marriage was
Speaker 1: after I had my kids. We had, you know, two kids,
Speaker 1: and I remember this moment of feeling really alone and
Speaker 1: feeling like lost. You know, I I was no longer
Speaker 1: going to a job every day that was telling me
Speaker 1: I was doing a good job, or I was no
Speaker 1: longer you know, seeing the same type of you know,
Speaker 1: I did a competitive sport, was my job, so like
Speaker 1: a first place told me you did good, you know,
Speaker 1: a sixth place told me work harder, you know, whatever
Speaker 1: it was. And so after I had the kids, I
Speaker 1: really became silent, and then I would look to my
Speaker 1: husband to validate me when he got home and if
Speaker 1: he had a stressful day at work or if something
Speaker 1: was going on and he didn't have a certain reaction
Speaker 1: to something that I said, like the kids and I
Speaker 1: did babba, I would immediately go to this deep dark
Speaker 1: place of like, we're failing, this is terrible, this is
Speaker 1: the world, you know, whatever it is. And it wasn't
Speaker 1: until I like made a shift in myself and changed
Speaker 1: my life that had nothing to do with him that
Speaker 1: then I felt comfortable to even say to him like, hey, Ed,
Speaker 1: can you tell me if you've had like a bad
Speaker 1: day at work or something's happened, so I don't take
Speaker 1: it personally when you come home if you're a little quiet,
Speaker 1: And he was like, you took it personally, and I'd
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, like if I come if you come
Speaker 1: home and I'm asking you questions and you're kind of
Speaker 1: short with me, I assume you're mad at me, And
Speaker 1: he's like, what, why would you think that there would
Speaker 1: be nothing for me to be mad at you about?
Speaker 1: But it was all of this pressure I was putting
Speaker 1: on myself every single night that I would base my
Speaker 1: mood on whatever his mood us and how he was
Speaker 1: validating me. So it really became like but once I
Speaker 1: asked him, like that was such a simple like he
Speaker 1: was like, for sure, I can send you a text
Speaker 1: on the way home and be like great day, can't
Speaker 1: wait to see you. Or I can be like gnarly day.
Speaker 1: Should we just zone out and watch a movie? You know,
Speaker 1: like whatever, we all gets strong enough so that we
Speaker 1: don't make everything about us? Yeah, what is that? And
Speaker 1: also why the dark place? Like? Why do I always
Speaker 1: go negative? So if I'm making crap up, why can't
Speaker 1: I make a positive crap instead of like negative crap?
Speaker 1: Like he hates me, he's not gonna text me back,
Speaker 1: I suck? Why not just be like I'm hot, He's
Speaker 1: gonna text me back, and if he doesn't, it's because
Speaker 1: his loss is busy. Whatever? Why do I make up? Yeah? Well,
Speaker 1: I think I think that we default to an old
Speaker 1: place inside of us it's like a wounded identity. It's
Speaker 1: it's an untrue, false identity. And we're because we're you know,
Speaker 1: when we were children like two, three, four, Like, our
Speaker 1: whole job was to create a sense of who am
Speaker 1: I and what's possible between myself and other people, and
Speaker 1: we solidified that as the years went on because inside
Speaker 1: of making those decisions, we actually never learned certain ways
Speaker 1: of showing up that would give us evidence to the contrary.
Speaker 1: So an example is like, if you have a narcissistic mother,
Speaker 1: you might just, you know, just assume that nobody cares
Speaker 1: about your feelings and needs and that it's even dangerous
Speaker 1: to be seen because it could make someone angry. And
Speaker 1: so you never learn how to negotiate for your needs
Speaker 1: with anyone. You You just keep disappearing yourself. And do
Speaker 1: you think your past prior relationships kind of feed into
Speaker 1: it too, Like a lot of people ask me, you know,
Speaker 1: like why do I feel like when I when somebody
Speaker 1: breaks up with me, their lying about their reason? Like
Speaker 1: why do people need to lie about the reason? Like
Speaker 1: a lot of the time of a man's reason would
Speaker 1: be you know, I'm just not in this place yet,
Speaker 1: I'm really focusing on my career, I'm doing this or
Speaker 1: doing what we're like, nine times out of ten it's
Speaker 1: probably a lie and they're just not that into you.
Speaker 1: But what's the bother? Why not just say, like, listen,
Speaker 1: I think you're great, but like I'm not feeling a connection.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be easier for us all to process? Why
Speaker 1: why do people want to lie? Yeah? Well, um boy,
Speaker 1: that's a whole. That's a whole gnarly not, isn't it.
Speaker 1: I Mean, I think it's just polite what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: And frankly, I think if somebody has already chosen to leave,
Speaker 1: to tell the truth is to then open the door
Speaker 1: to further engagement. Right, So, in a way, they're kind
Speaker 1: of done with you. I mean that's where I came in,
Speaker 1: and Jim was talking like I was done. When I
Speaker 1: said goodbye, I was like done because and and probably
Speaker 1: I don't know how you said goodbye, and it sounds
Speaker 1: like a long relationship. So it's obviously more than you know.
Speaker 1: I'm into other things now. But um but I think
Speaker 1: that if people are done, they're done. If they've been
Speaker 1: processing individually or they've been trying to work it out
Speaker 1: the other person isn't meeting them. At some point they're
Speaker 1: ready to move on and then they just kind of
Speaker 1: want to tie it up with a bow and not
Speaker 1: do any more damage. And do you think if they're
Speaker 1: because after that breakup happens, and the person and that
Speaker 1: the other person tends to always want to have those
Speaker 1: additional calls because there's something else they think that needs
Speaker 1: to be said. Do you think those calls help? Do
Speaker 1: you think there's no? Not really, because because the impulse
Speaker 1: is to go from soul mate to soul hate, and
Speaker 1: like a positive bond to a negative bond. You know,
Speaker 1: nature has designed us to bond either way. Nature will
Speaker 1: take a negative bond over if you think, you know,
Speaker 1: hatred is not the opposite of love. Hatred is very
Speaker 1: engaged and high energy and a lot of investment, a
Speaker 1: lot of energy going into more energy. It's so much energy.
Speaker 1: I mean, indifference is actually the opposite of love. Swift,
Speaker 1: says Taylor. Which one what is it called, you guys,
Speaker 1: the one that says, uh, I forgot you existed. Ah,
Speaker 1: it's not love, it's not hate, it's just indifference. There
Speaker 1: you go. That's what we're talking to. The swift, I mean,
Speaker 1: sometimes conscious you know a lot of times when when
Speaker 1: people saw Gwyneth and Chris, they thought, oh, conscious uncoupling
Speaker 1: is staying really good friends with your former partner. It's not.
Speaker 1: It's about being empowered and free. So sometimes it's being
Speaker 1: to me, you're not talking to the other person. But
Speaker 1: there is a difference between times. Can you talk, Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: of course, and especially if you have children, you know,
Speaker 1: shared community and talk and communicate. I only communicate with
Speaker 1: my acts about our son, but I see other I
Speaker 1: have friends who are divorced who have kids, and there's
Speaker 1: no communication. There's a lot of screaming and name Colleen
Speaker 1: and the tax. They can't even taught. But he's he's
Speaker 1: a gate opener to my house, so that he's able to,
Speaker 1: you know, drop stuff off or pick stuff up or
Speaker 1: you know. It's very it's we're not friends but friendly.
Speaker 1: We're friendly. Well as saying as there's no festering resentment
Speaker 1: between you, because if there is unresolved resentment, the children
Speaker 1: do feel it, even when we're on the surface friendly.
Speaker 1: And I will say that part of why I wrote
Speaker 1: conscious un coupling is like, I'm a big advocate of
Speaker 1: marriage and long term relationships, but you know, people break
Speaker 1: up in relationships and when happily ever after he was created,
Speaker 1: the lifespan was less than forty years of age and
Speaker 1: nobody was mobile. So like you know that we live
Speaker 1: in a very different universe than when that was created.
Speaker 1: We need to up level, you know, how we're doing things.
Speaker 1: So there's a way consciously to separate. But you know,
Speaker 1: you have you have these child written and if if
Speaker 1: you are going back and forth and kind of shuffling
Speaker 1: between two different families, you're always asking your children to
Speaker 1: be in a state of loss because they're losing one
Speaker 1: family to join other family. So even if you're quote
Speaker 1: unquote friendly, that's why I mean in conscious uncoupling, we
Speaker 1: have this idea of expanded family. We expand our family.
Speaker 1: So and I still have a family with my former husband.
Speaker 1: I call him my husband, my husband denied and his
Speaker 1: his girlfriend and now my sweetheart, and we all spend
Speaker 1: holidays together. Still, you know, I'm not sure how long
Speaker 1: we'll do that because we just sent my kid to college,
Speaker 1: so we're kind of winding that stage down and now
Speaker 1: I'm free to go to Italy for the holidays or something.
Speaker 1: But but we really work to have one more you know,
Speaker 1: and look, I don't know. I'm almost like a hippie
Speaker 1: with it. Because my he had been married before and
Speaker 1: he has another daughter, and so they would come to her.
Speaker 1: I'm invited them to her home for the holidays so
Speaker 1: that our daughters could have a relationship with each other.
Speaker 1: And then at one point my daughter was six and
Speaker 1: she said, you know, can my sister's mother be my godmother?
Speaker 1: Because I want to have the same mother as my sister.
Speaker 1: So I said, okay, so I really see. But here's
Speaker 1: coming from divorced parents like I. Once they were divorced,
Speaker 1: I didn't really want that. So I'm confused, like because
Speaker 1: I knew that when I was with my dad, I
Speaker 1: was with my dad, and when I was with my mom,
Speaker 1: I was with my mom. If there was an event,
Speaker 1: and even if they were getting along, I felt unneeded
Speaker 1: pressure because I wanted to make sure everything was going
Speaker 1: to be good and smooth and blah blah blah. So
Speaker 1: I wonder, like, yes, but yes, it is such a
Speaker 1: great thing to be able to all be together and
Speaker 1: do that. But like, kids were smart and we can
Speaker 1: feel any little thing. But that's what I'd say, that's
Speaker 1: what conscious uncoupling actually clears the field. You're not. But
Speaker 1: don't you think you can. You think you're cleared and
Speaker 1: you're not cleared. I it's not just an instruction to
Speaker 1: clear the field, like I literally tell people what to
Speaker 1: do to complete and to clear it. It's no like
Speaker 1: room freaking out that you invented conscious uncomforting. I didn't
Speaker 1: like that until now, And like Gwyneth made that so
Speaker 1: famous that I actually was like googled who invented conscious uncomming?
Speaker 1: To make sure that you weren't wrong. I mean, so
Speaker 1: Gwynneth got that from you, She actually got it from
Speaker 1: Habib's today he who got it from me. That's how
Speaker 1: that happened. Habib was a fan of mine and he
Speaker 1: followed my work. He and his wife Dr Sammy, and
Speaker 1: they followed my work and they were fans. And then
Speaker 1: we are in the presence of greatness, which is why
Speaker 1: I really need to understand that. I feel like, if
Speaker 1: you believe in conscious uncoupling, then it isn't that weird
Speaker 1: that I'm friends with exs no praise, like, but I
Speaker 1: have a question, so and I still want to address
Speaker 1: what you said about your parents and regards to conscious uncompling.
Speaker 1: Is there a need to be friends with your exes
Speaker 1: if you don't have children together. No, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: There's no, but it's just about being complete with them
Speaker 1: and not having baggage but angst so they don't like
Speaker 1: knowing there's someone in the world that I loved that
Speaker 1: I have like but not some kind of it. So
Speaker 1: I work it out. I just work right, but work out.
Speaker 1: Working it out and saying I'm okay with this person
Speaker 1: and still being friends with them are two totally different
Speaker 1: things in my opinion. So so so what is what
Speaker 1: is disturbing you about that? No, I'm saying, Okay, let's
Speaker 1: say that you were to get married tomorrow to somebody
Speaker 1: else and she's good friends with all of her exes,
Speaker 1: eating dinner together, like all of those things. To me,
Speaker 1: is that going to bother her her husband? I think
Speaker 1: it's slightly disrespectful to her new Well, we'll ask him. Like,
Speaker 1: but I'm saying if it were me and I was
Speaker 1: friends example, I was, I was married before. We didn't
Speaker 1: have a nasty breakup, we were friends. It was not
Speaker 1: a problem for edwyn Um. But then when my ex
Speaker 1: got with his new girlfriend now wife, she was like
Speaker 1: you know what, we could kind of that could be
Speaker 1: you know, nipped in the bud. You guys don't And
Speaker 1: you know what I was like, Yeah, you're probably right,
Speaker 1: because it is some sort of little crutch holding on
Speaker 1: to one another because of something you used to have.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean you like that, that you are in
Speaker 1: love with that person anymore, but having that kind of
Speaker 1: connection with somebody that you used to either be married
Speaker 1: to or have sex with, to me, is a little
Speaker 1: touchy to the new partner. Yeah, which it could be,
Speaker 1: and you have to take that into account. So you
Speaker 1: all did the right thing because you honored her. However,
Speaker 1: I think conscious uncoupling is neutral on what one chooses
Speaker 1: to do. Conscious uncoupling is really about being free. It's
Speaker 1: about learning your lessons, going deeper, taking personal responsibility, graduating
Speaker 1: from oldt Because when I don't do it, all I
Speaker 1: do is just hold onto that. I'm just holding onto
Speaker 1: the relationship where I didn't consciously uncouple, and it just
Speaker 1: causes me pain or angst or I think I love
Speaker 1: them or in my brain I'm talking about it all
Speaker 1: the time. It's like, when I do it right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's free. You're free. You're just free. Of it, and
Speaker 1: then of course it's a choice and you have to
Speaker 1: and I think conscious uncoupling is always The other thing
Speaker 1: is that we honor the whole community. We don't honor
Speaker 1: just um. We don't honor just the two people who
Speaker 1: are breaking up in a conscious uncoupling because relationship, because
Speaker 1: relationships belong to the community, to the children, to the school,
Speaker 1: to the neighborhood, to the extended family, your cousins and
Speaker 1: your aunts, and you know, there's a lot of other
Speaker 1: people who have invested in that relationship. So it's about
Speaker 1: everyone being well and happy. And that would of course
Speaker 1: include a new partner and being respectful of what that
Speaker 1: person can handle and what they're needing. I guess what
Speaker 1: I'm struggling is I almost feel like it's unfair to
Speaker 1: go into a serious relationship with somebody else and be like, listen,
Speaker 1: you're also taking on my ex husband and we're gonna
Speaker 1: we have dinner every Wednesday night because that's our thing
Speaker 1: and we are you know, that's who are you cool
Speaker 1: with it? I mean, anybody's gonna be like, oh well.
Speaker 1: I think what needs to happen in that situation is
Speaker 1: that there needs to be an effort for the for
Speaker 1: the former, like if you would if she had, if
Speaker 1: she had reached out to me and said, what should
Speaker 1: I do, Catherine, I would have said, called Teddy and
Speaker 1: invite her to lunch. And you create your own relationship
Speaker 1: with and some people are cool with the world is
Speaker 1: small sometimes, like I date somebody that's friends with somebody
Speaker 1: I dated before, and I'm not going to make it weird.
Speaker 1: We're all friends. It's all good. My circle is a
Speaker 1: tad small. I have a question, what So when you
Speaker 1: got forced? Was it ten? It was ten years ago? Correct?
Speaker 1: When did I get divorced into? In this book? Conscious
Speaker 1: Uncompanying came out of that divorce. So did you test
Speaker 1: it on that divorce? I did? I did, and then
Speaker 1: you wrote about it. Yeah, and what happened after your divorce?
Speaker 1: You wrote, wrote the book after my divorce? Yeah, but
Speaker 1: it was your process, Well, it was my process informed
Speaker 1: by the many bad breakups I've had because I wasn't
Speaker 1: doubled over in pain, but I have had breakups were
Speaker 1: like half the hair on my head fell out because
Speaker 1: I was in so much grief, and I started smoking
Speaker 1: again and I didn't need for you, what do you
Speaker 1: do when you're in that much pain and that's what
Speaker 1: we needed. Another add on to that, what is the
Speaker 1: difference between heartbreak and depression? Yes, good question, Okay, which
Speaker 1: one do we want to go to? First? Start break?
Speaker 1: What do you do that survived that pain of heartbreak
Speaker 1: where I'm in the shower and I say to myself,
Speaker 1: this is excruciating. Well, look at depression is actually, if
Speaker 1: you look at the stages of grief, depression is um
Speaker 1: is a step down the road towards recovery from the
Speaker 1: initial angst of heartbreak. Because depression means you're kind of
Speaker 1: inching your way towards acceptance of this is WHAT'SO. And
Speaker 1: you feel depressed because you're not fighting it anymore. But
Speaker 1: you know, you have the five stages of greep. You
Speaker 1: have denial, this can't be happening. You have anger, how
Speaker 1: dary you know do this to me? You have bargaining
Speaker 1: maybe if I had, you know, maybe if I lose
Speaker 1: ten pounds, or maybe if I you know, do this
Speaker 1: or that, or let's go to counseling. You know, now
Speaker 1: we're in the bargaining, you start to get depressure, like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is really happening. And then in those moments what
Speaker 1: if you have the urge of like, maybe I should
Speaker 1: get back with him, Well, you probably will, and so
Speaker 1: what I do is I kind of unpack. In the
Speaker 1: book Counts Uncoupling, Eye unpack what's happening in our biology
Speaker 1: because love, you know, love withdrawal, it simulates drug withdrawal
Speaker 1: in our brains, in our bodies. Nature has hardwired us
Speaker 1: to stay connected. We are not born to break up.
Speaker 1: So that you know, uh lu Casalino. Dr lu Casalino
Speaker 1: will talk about how the brain is actually a social organ.
Speaker 1: So we regulate our body functions with each other, We
Speaker 1: regulate our emotions with each other. It's that phenomenon of
Speaker 1: when somebody is hurting you and they're they're they're breaking
Speaker 1: your heart there withdrawing and then and you're in so
Speaker 1: much pain, and then they call you and you hear
Speaker 1: their voice and your whole body comes down like finally right.
Speaker 1: But this is the person hurting you so so so
Speaker 1: we regulate each other. And so what happens in a
Speaker 1: breakup is we are deregulated. We are in a relational trauma,
Speaker 1: which is which Judith Herman from the Harvard Medical School
Speaker 1: will say is one of the worst traumas we can
Speaker 1: ever go through um and you know, the rejection that
Speaker 1: we're feeling maybe is simulating, uh, it's it's hitting all
Speaker 1: the pain centers in the brain, so the brain is
Speaker 1: experiencing it almost is physical pain. Lately, doctors have been
Speaker 1: prescribing aspirin for heartbreak because of this. So we're really
Speaker 1: out of cutwork. It's shown to I don't know what
Speaker 1: right had. This podcast is Stomach. This week's podcast by
Speaker 1: asprit I Love. Okay, okay, good, alright, I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure. But so this is the person who
Speaker 1: is like here, like being left, mostly because the person
Speaker 1: who's leaving has had time to build an identity outside
Speaker 1: the relationship is pretty acclimated. By the time they finally
Speaker 1: put their foot down, they've you know, they've, they've they're
Speaker 1: they're onto the next thing already. Internally, there's the person
Speaker 1: who's being left that's this traumatized. Even if they've been
Speaker 1: told over and over again, if this doesn't happen, I'm
Speaker 1: going to be leaving, they somehow didn't think it was
Speaker 1: going to happen. And so they're the ones that you know,
Speaker 1: this particular step one is for, and that is when
Speaker 1: you're kind of wildly out of control, and that's when
Speaker 1: you want to pour bleach on all his good suits
Speaker 1: and you want to like his car. I don't have that.
Speaker 1: So if you were to follow all these steps, you
Speaker 1: could do it in seven weeks. Well that now that's
Speaker 1: calling in the one. So there's two books, right, But
Speaker 1: then I have just uncoupling and calling in. How long
Speaker 1: does it take to conscious uncouple? It depends on the person.
Speaker 1: It depends on the situation. I mean, because like I
Speaker 1: have these friends that will break up, and I have
Speaker 1: been hearing about this breakup for three years or five years.
Speaker 1: And then you know, and you for a while, you're
Speaker 1: empathetic and you're like, listen, I feel you. I'm there,
Speaker 1: you know, and then you get to the point where
Speaker 1: you're like, if I hear Jonathan's name one more time,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call Jonathan myself, have him changed his phone number,
Speaker 1: you know, Like Google did extensively, and it said there's
Speaker 1: lots of different ones, but one said eleven weeks, and
Speaker 1: I sort of settled in on that one. Eleven weeks.
Speaker 1: Felt like, okay, all right, I don't think so. I
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I'm I'm in the camp like this
Speaker 1: could go on for years, you know, I mean my look,
Speaker 1: my mother has been divorced from her third husband for
Speaker 1: about thirty five years, and a couple of years ago
Speaker 1: he was still taking her to court saying she owed
Speaker 1: him more money. So if you family, if you are
Speaker 1: if you are the friend that has the friend that's
Speaker 1: been talking about the same breakup for multiple years, and
Speaker 1: you it's at this point, what is a good thing
Speaker 1: to do as a friend to that person? You would
Speaker 1: buy her the book and you'd say, look, you really
Speaker 1: need to complete this, Like how do we actually get
Speaker 1: complete when something has been that fair for somebody who
Speaker 1: can't buy the book, somebody that's listening right now, what
Speaker 1: is a good first step? Six bucks? I just ordered
Speaker 1: it while on Amazon right now, but can okay, can
Speaker 1: there you go? But but I actually have a whole
Speaker 1: free starter kit Unconscious Uncoupling dot Com Forward Slash starter kit.
Speaker 1: People can do that for free and I and I
Speaker 1: take people through the five steps, and I have audios
Speaker 1: and people can listen to the audios. But there's there's
Speaker 1: a process that people need to go through to really
Speaker 1: come out the other side of it wiser, stronger, more
Speaker 1: capable of loving. I feel sort of good listening to you.
Speaker 1: Do you have private practice? I do, although it's narrow
Speaker 1: because I'm mostly trained coaches, but really yeah, I have
Speaker 1: all go a whole body of coaches that I trained.
Speaker 1: So if somebody can't get over break up the same way,
Speaker 1: I'm just talking about three years. But what do you
Speaker 1: think is actually going on, is that there's too angry
Speaker 1: or well, so they might they might be creating a
Speaker 1: negative bond as a replacement for the positive bond that
Speaker 1: sets soul mate to soul hate phenomenon and um, as
Speaker 1: I said, nature hates you know, it is kind of
Speaker 1: structured so that we stay together and in in Nature's universe.
Speaker 1: Better a hate bond than no bond at all. So
Speaker 1: it's understanding the cost and the consequences of that. You know,
Speaker 1: resentment is as hard on the body as if we're
Speaker 1: smoking a half a pack of cigarettes a day. Studies show,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's all sorts of reasons. Certainly, if you
Speaker 1: have children, if you ever hope to be in another
Speaker 1: happy relationship, we don't want to be taking that baggage
Speaker 1: in um if you are you know, the if you
Speaker 1: have children and your and you're and you're in the
Speaker 1: process of separating. You want to start to to to
Speaker 1: do the work immediately because you're in the midst of
Speaker 1: trauma and crisis and every action you take, every choice
Speaker 1: you make, or creating consequences that you and your children
Speaker 1: are probably going to be living with for the rest
Speaker 1: of your lives, or at least for the next decade
Speaker 1: or so. Do you still believe in marriage? I do
Speaker 1: you do? Do you well? Because I believe the container
Speaker 1: of all in commitment is beautiful and healing and and
Speaker 1: um a container for growth. I think it's the highest
Speaker 1: and the best creates a lot of safety. What do
Speaker 1: you think about this one? I have a friend who
Speaker 1: said he's not getting divorced because his kids are begging
Speaker 1: him not to. They're eight or seven or five or
Speaker 1: something like that. It's like, ah, well, I think, so
Speaker 1: it's a new frame. You know what, We're going to
Speaker 1: design our family like this, I mean, truthfully and a
Speaker 1: conscious uncoupling in a way you still decide to stay
Speaker 1: a family so that the kids are saying no, don't,
Speaker 1: don't let me come from a broken home. I don't
Speaker 1: want my poem to be broken. And conscious uncoupling started
Speaker 1: from this inquiry, like, could you actually have a divorce
Speaker 1: where you don't break the family, where you expand the family,
Speaker 1: You accommodate the new relationship that the parents want to create,
Speaker 1: and you evolve the family into a different place. But
Speaker 1: a lot of the times these divorces are stemming from
Speaker 1: you're married to a narcissist or you're married to an ada.
Speaker 1: So how do you consciously uncouple from one of those? Right?
Speaker 1: That's beautiful, So I and ideal a lot with that.
Speaker 1: People come to me when they've had, you know, really
Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of pain from narcissist. So this is
Speaker 1: at N three analogy because usually that three percent is
Speaker 1: a pretty helpful piece to look at about how someone
Speaker 1: has been sourcing their value from giving, how they haven't
Speaker 1: presence to themselves, how they source safety from disappearing themselves
Speaker 1: and focusing another person. So what you say is this
Speaker 1: is your grand opportunity to graduate forever so that you
Speaker 1: really could actually be capable of creating relationship where somebody
Speaker 1: sees you, somebody hears you, you see them, there's mutuality,
Speaker 1: there's maturity, but you're still having to be with that person.
Speaker 1: But well, if you have children, Okay, so you have
Speaker 1: to be response. You know, we all have karma. We
Speaker 1: all make decisions, and those decisions generate things, and then
Speaker 1: we have to be responsible for the decisions we make.
Speaker 1: If you marry a narcissist, you probably saw some of
Speaker 1: the red flags and did it anyway, and there are
Speaker 1: consequences to that, so you know, you make the best
Speaker 1: of it. But one of the things I teach unconscious
Speaker 1: uncoupling also is how to de escalate someone's rage, because
Speaker 1: if you're breaking up from a narcissist, they're going to
Speaker 1: have a lot of rage. It's called narcissistic rage. Do
Speaker 1: you de escalate because I just do that. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You're right,
Speaker 1: you're right, you're right. Well, so dumb, No, it's not dumb.
Speaker 1: You could probably do it even more effectively. But you
Speaker 1: have really good instincts. Saymy, you have really really good instincts.
Speaker 1: Um on, how to you know? If you have children,
Speaker 1: you want to be able to kind of salvage the
Speaker 1: good and build on that, So you might do something like, wow,
Speaker 1: I while you're really angry, you kind of mirror their
Speaker 1: feelings back to them, Wow, you're really angry. Can you
Speaker 1: tell me more about that? Because and then your generative
Speaker 1: I really want us to understand each other so that
Speaker 1: this doesn't happen again, and we can you know, we
Speaker 1: can do co parenting. They're almost feeding the little narcissistics
Speaker 1: apply in the narcissist. You feed the beast what you want,
Speaker 1: you kind of do and you do it sweetly, and
Speaker 1: you keep your eye on what's the most important. But
Speaker 1: the narcissist then they don't think it even more confused
Speaker 1: and then dig in even deeper like them. No, you
Speaker 1: can diffuse them. You can. They're they're pretty once you
Speaker 1: kind of catch it. They're they're a little easy to man.
Speaker 1: I feel like anyone dealing with all of this, you
Speaker 1: have to be so strong, well core, This is what
Speaker 1: I was going to say. What you do? You need
Speaker 1: to do the internal work to get them out of
Speaker 1: the power position, because if you've been with a narcissist,
Speaker 1: it means you've given your powerway to that person. So
Speaker 1: the first three steps of conscious uncoupling are all about you.
Speaker 1: They're not about going there and do this with them.
Speaker 1: You have to, you know, Number one, get a handle
Speaker 1: on your emotions. That's fine. Emotional freedom is the first step.
Speaker 1: Number two is reclaim your power and your life, and
Speaker 1: believe it or not, it's about taking responsibility for your
Speaker 1: three percent so that you start knowing the amends to
Speaker 1: make yourself so someone. For a narcissist, one of the
Speaker 1: mechanisms is, you know, I always gave in. I never
Speaker 1: presence to myself, and so the amends to self is
Speaker 1: you need to presence yourself everywhere with everyone you call.
Speaker 1: What about you tell your boss what you're really feeling?
Speaker 1: You tell your someone that's you know, uh, mentally abusing you. Well, again,
Speaker 1: I'm not letting them off the hook for their crappy behavior.
Speaker 1: But if somebody comes to me because they're suffering from
Speaker 1: the from the horror of going through that experience, the
Speaker 1: best thing, the best medicine I can tell I can
Speaker 1: give to them is how have you been lying to
Speaker 1: yourself to stay in this relationship? What parts of your
Speaker 1: knowing have you been cutting off and throwing under the
Speaker 1: bus to try and salvage something? He does feel better.
Speaker 1: Even if you stand up a little bit and you
Speaker 1: have to be like strong and you do it, and
Speaker 1: then you don't back down because I have that sort
Speaker 1: of weird thing like where I stand up for myself.
Speaker 1: We hang up and then it's like I need to
Speaker 1: call back. I need to call back, I need to
Speaker 1: go back in again and something, and then you go nope,
Speaker 1: I'm good. Yeah, wow, that's great. Well, well, well so
Speaker 1: we're talking so which it's almost like which self are
Speaker 1: you sourcing the relationship from? Are you going to source
Speaker 1: yourself from the I'm you know, not good enough self?
Speaker 1: You're going to be in that conversation from the I
Speaker 1: don't matter self? Or are you're going to be in
Speaker 1: the conversation from I matter my feelings and needs mighter
Speaker 1: than letter to me to others. That's so cool. My
Speaker 1: I am so different in my current relationship then I
Speaker 1: was in the seventeen year marriage because I over communicate.
Speaker 1: I don't want to say over communicate, but I'm a
Speaker 1: pretty calm person. I really don't raise my voice, but
Speaker 1: I am I'm forced. I had to force myself to
Speaker 1: communicate my needs or if something was bothering me or
Speaker 1: if something triggered me. And he appreciates that because he
Speaker 1: doesn't have to guess. The guests were taking out the
Speaker 1: guesswork has been a game changer in my because we
Speaker 1: all want to assume the worst. Well I do. I
Speaker 1: want to assume the worst. And I actually that's something
Speaker 1: I do with my kids now too, and it's really
Speaker 1: helped us because you know, when they were first born,
Speaker 1: they were my hundred percent. It was us all the time.
Speaker 1: And then things started changing where like I started developing
Speaker 1: all in, I created a big business. I have forty
Speaker 1: eight women that work with me. I went on a
Speaker 1: television show, like life really shifted. So I started kind
Speaker 1: of setting their expectations and being like, hey, guys, tomorrow
Speaker 1: is like a crazy work day for me. I don't
Speaker 1: want you to think that I'm not paying attention to you.
Speaker 1: I love you, I care about you. It's going to
Speaker 1: be crazy. But then guess what Friday, it's us you know.
Speaker 1: But just like then they're not acting out because they're
Speaker 1: not feeling like they're getting a certain level of attention,
Speaker 1: and you realize, wow, it really just that took two
Speaker 1: seconds and like really meant something, and then and me
Speaker 1: and then I took the guilt off me, and they
Speaker 1: feel secure. Yeah, they're like, oh we're good, We're good.
Speaker 1: But it's crazy that like why we avoid doing something
Speaker 1: that could make all of our lives easier. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: beautiful And on the same same topic, when when you
Speaker 1: are finally deciding to whether you know, unconscious, when you
Speaker 1: decided to consciously, when it consciously, how do you get
Speaker 1: over being so upset that it's over? Um, I think
Speaker 1: we've all had those moments. I know I have. And
Speaker 1: it's really about making meaning of the breakup in equal
Speaker 1: or greater measure than the pain you're in. So, for example,
Speaker 1: you're going to say, I can't believe I messed this
Speaker 1: relationship up or I lost the opportunity of this relationship,
Speaker 1: and I really get the cost of when I behave
Speaker 1: in this way, when I give my power away to somebody,
Speaker 1: I really get the cost of when I show up
Speaker 1: out of my insecurity or you know, whatever it is,
Speaker 1: and that will never happen again. That's just what you said.
Speaker 1: It will never happen again. From this moment forward, I
Speaker 1: will be a different woman and I will show up different.
Speaker 1: So you kind of have to make that level of
Speaker 1: dramatic meaning and I don't have. Uh, I can't parallel
Speaker 1: this with a breakup for me, But for me, I've
Speaker 1: always struggled, um with with waite and I would, you know,
Speaker 1: with past food things. And I used to tell myself
Speaker 1: for many years, this will never happen again, and then
Speaker 1: it would happen again. So right, I was thinking, I
Speaker 1: will never do this again until in the next until
Speaker 1: I do this next fad diet, and then I do
Speaker 1: this next binge, and then I do this next you know,
Speaker 1: whatever I'm doing to myself. You know, now I've created.
Speaker 1: The reason it's shifted is because I've created kind of
Speaker 1: like a tribe of people to help me continue myself accountable.
Speaker 1: But before that, I you know, i'd say never do
Speaker 1: it again, and then I'd be like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: I had a bad day, so I'm doing it again.
Speaker 1: Here we go. But I think what you're saying is
Speaker 1: the key. I think that we need to be together
Speaker 1: in these things. I don't think that any of us
Speaker 1: can change in isolation. And and you know, I'm a therapist,
Speaker 1: so I get to pick my professional part a little bit.
Speaker 1: That's one of the reasons I don't really just to
Speaker 1: private practice, even though I know that's very valuable, is
Speaker 1: because I love working with groups, because I think groups
Speaker 1: is where it's at. And uh, and now what I'm
Speaker 1: doing is something called the True You Awakening, and I
Speaker 1: have workshops and classes in the True You Awakening so
Speaker 1: that we can really challenge the old beliefs and the
Speaker 1: identity we've been living out of standing the deeper truth
Speaker 1: of who we are and start to show up like that.
Speaker 1: And you know, you know, in any in all areas,
Speaker 1: so food, food would be one of them. Health and
Speaker 1: body image and what's my identity and my body? So
Speaker 1: what did you think? This is just a total sidebar,
Speaker 1: but I've just had to ask, okay, when everybody was
Speaker 1: sort of like conscious uncoupling, like and it feels like
Speaker 1: it was on Saturday Night Live, Like did you like that?
Speaker 1: I think it was on Saturday Night Love. People send
Speaker 1: it to me and I actually loved it. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: I loved it. It was you know, it's one of
Speaker 1: those things because I just shared about how broken my
Speaker 1: upbringing was and how my parents you know, had animosity
Speaker 1: for years, and how messed up I was. To have
Speaker 1: gone to a place where I would create something because
Speaker 1: that would kind of go global and change the conversation.
Speaker 1: It was extraordinary. It was really extraordinary. It was almost
Speaker 1: like you know, it was almost like hitting a home
Speaker 1: run in the ball like went out of the park.
Speaker 1: It was. It was a really exhilarating thing. So even
Speaker 1: when people were doing it with humor and stuff, it
Speaker 1: didn't really bother me because there was an equal measure.
Speaker 1: People who were saying, oh, a new paradigm of of
Speaker 1: of divorce just got created, Like how we could do
Speaker 1: this differently? Just got six dollars from me, girls, So
Speaker 1: tell what you worried about that? And I just opened
Speaker 1: up the questions onto my Instagram and one of them
Speaker 1: that just came in that I thought was interesting is
Speaker 1: how do you get over someone when you truly believe
Speaker 1: they're the one. That's a really great question. So what
Speaker 1: I say about that is they are the one at
Speaker 1: that level of your development, and if that is so,
Speaker 1: then you better grow yourself healthier and stronger so that
Speaker 1: you literally outgrow that person. You become a better version
Speaker 1: of yourself. That makes sense. Wow, that's why you have
Speaker 1: to keep growing together if you get married you I
Speaker 1: try to just say the universe is going to sort
Speaker 1: this all out. Ah, that's sweet. Well maybe, but I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's helpful to that person because she
Speaker 1: wants the universe to sort it out the way she wants, right.
Speaker 1: But I feel like if the universe is going to
Speaker 1: sort it out, it'll all come back around. And that's
Speaker 1: where faith true. We were earlier, you had talked about
Speaker 1: that you were in a relationship, and then six years
Speaker 1: later that ended up being your husband. For those people
Speaker 1: that continue to go back to an X or something
Speaker 1: like that, how do you know if it's the right
Speaker 1: thing versus the wrong thing? Well, I mean in that situation,
Speaker 1: I was the one who was messing it up right
Speaker 1: because in my scenario, there was always somebody who was unavailable,
Speaker 1: and most of the time it was them, But this
Speaker 1: time it happened to be me, So it was actually
Speaker 1: very trustworthy and solid, and I just created a lot
Speaker 1: of drama. Um, but I think that that's an excellent question.
Speaker 1: And um, you know, you have to really know what
Speaker 1: it is you're standing for having. Now we're in calling
Speaker 1: in the one right, like what what are you really creating?
Speaker 1: And what are you standing for having? If somebody is
Speaker 1: telling you that they're different, that they're going to show
Speaker 1: up differently, you have to really get like you have
Speaker 1: to really ask them like what's different? What how do
Speaker 1: you see this different? And why is this different for
Speaker 1: you now? And then you give it time to see
Speaker 1: if indeed it is different. I like second chances, but
Speaker 1: you have to go in with your eyes open and
Speaker 1: don't have it be a yes, you know, yes, let's
Speaker 1: be together again. It's more like a period of time
Speaker 1: so that you maybe date them and date other people.
Speaker 1: Maybe you're not into deep Maybe you're getting to see
Speaker 1: them over time to see what's different, and you you
Speaker 1: rebuild trust. If trust disbin breach and another question that
Speaker 1: keeps coming up as you're with somebody, it's not a
Speaker 1: good situation, and then all of a sudden you threaten
Speaker 1: to leave, or you actually do, and now they're begging
Speaker 1: for you back. They're saying, I'm gonna change, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go to therapy, I'm gonna do that, I'm gonna do
Speaker 1: anything just to be with you because I can't imagine
Speaker 1: my life without. They're telling you all the right things.
Speaker 1: Yeah what what then? Yeah? I mean, look, we're all
Speaker 1: we're all believers in change. We wouldn't have this conversation
Speaker 1: if we didn't believe that we were capable of positive change.
Speaker 1: But I like to get very specific with people, and
Speaker 1: you know, the for me. It's always about how much
Speaker 1: personal responsibilities to someone take and not. And personal responsibility
Speaker 1: isn't like, well, I am the way that I am
Speaker 1: because my dad was like that with my mom and
Speaker 1: I can't help. But that's not person. That might be
Speaker 1: some insight, but there's no personal responsibility. Personal responsibility might
Speaker 1: look like, yeah, I become a when I don't get
Speaker 1: what I want and it's been cruel and it's been
Speaker 1: unkind and I have no business treating anyone like that,
Speaker 1: and I promise you that I will no longer do
Speaker 1: that anymore, and I will actually I'm going to learn
Speaker 1: how to communicate my needs in a much more healthy way,
Speaker 1: and then there's action. So but in the times that
Speaker 1: somebody does say those things, or they don't say the
Speaker 1: right things, but they still are like, I want you back,
Speaker 1: I want you back, and then nine times out of
Speaker 1: ten they get you back, and then nothing really changes
Speaker 1: over time. What is the need in the person that's
Speaker 1: doing the begging to get you back? Is that just
Speaker 1: because loss or well that's what I'm talking about before
Speaker 1: that how we're hardwired to stay together. So so there's
Speaker 1: this even there's this thing in the brain that happens
Speaker 1: when we're rejected, where instead of like the sensible thing
Speaker 1: that the brain would kind of lessen investment in that person,
Speaker 1: what happens in the brains is that we're flooded with
Speaker 1: hormones that are similar to when we first fell in love.
Speaker 1: So it desire actually increases. So people do run after,
Speaker 1: people do hurl themselves at the person leaving, like that's
Speaker 1: just what the brain and the biology is making them do.
Speaker 1: So um, you know, when you're in that situation, when
Speaker 1: you're leaving, you know, you have to take responsibility for
Speaker 1: who you were being in the relationship that had it
Speaker 1: not work and look at your part of it and
Speaker 1: then you know, bring the course correct. Like you know, well,
Speaker 1: I've I've been a doormat and somehow I've been sourcing
Speaker 1: my self esteem from giving. And the truth is is
Speaker 1: that I get my value and I don't need to
Speaker 1: source my self esteem from giving overgiving anymore. And I'm
Speaker 1: not going to overfunction and have you underfunction. So you know,
Speaker 1: if if you want to to get me back, you
Speaker 1: need to really unpack this. You know, your your self
Speaker 1: absorption or you know, and it's so it's both. People
Speaker 1: actually would need to change. It's not just the other person.
Speaker 1: I just with me when you said that. But even
Speaker 1: though it's percent them, it's all about your three percent.
Speaker 1: And even if that three percent is just tolerating crap,
Speaker 1: stop tolerating craps. I mean, I can say this all
Speaker 1: in a year, you'll be back and I'll be dated
Speaker 1: a little unavailable. No, don't create that future. We're creating
Speaker 1: a new future, creating a new future for you, Amy.
Speaker 1: I love narcissus. Well, they are kind of fun. I mean,
Speaker 1: they are the life of the party, charming and handsome
Speaker 1: and sexy. And I think, I think when we when
Speaker 1: we really start to love ourselves in those places, in
Speaker 1: that three percent area, you you actually lose interest. Like
Speaker 1: people say to me, what's the healthy response to a narcissist,
Speaker 1: I say, disinterest. Oh my gosh. Well, leaving it on
Speaker 1: that positive note, thank you so much for coming and
Speaker 1: helping us today. Thank you so excited that My god,
Speaker 1: your epic this is you know, it's awesome. I just
Speaker 1: only had that book and started reading just the first
Speaker 1: part that tells your story, and I'm like, is this
Speaker 1: my biography? Well, we appreciate it. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: You think you gotta give me a little backstory on
Speaker 1: your on my recent divorce. So I was married for
Speaker 1: almost uh seventeen I was married for seventeen years. What
Speaker 1: I thought You're going to say, seventeen months. Oh, no,
Speaker 1: seventeen years. I was very young, Um, and I continued
Speaker 1: to grow as a person, and UM, he sort of
Speaker 1: just stayed, you know, into he was still the twenty
Speaker 1: five year old, right, and I had own So I
Speaker 1: had known for a long time, and there were issues
Speaker 1: that we had through throughout the years. Um, and we
Speaker 1: never we were really connected for a couple of years.
Speaker 1: But after that, I just I kept growing. When you
Speaker 1: got when you started feeling that you were disconnecting with
Speaker 1: you guys continuing to work on it or you're just
Speaker 1: like out of sight, out of mind. So it's so
Speaker 1: crazy because I'm also a psychologist, So I used every
Speaker 1: tool I had in my toolbox over the years to
Speaker 1: try and help make him grow. I couldn't. I couldn't,
Speaker 1: you can't, you can't. He didn't want to. He was comfortable,
Speaker 1: and probably the more that you wanted him to, the
Speaker 1: more he dug his heels in. And it was just
Speaker 1: we just what I realized was that we were just
Speaker 1: fundamentally different people, how we walk through life, how we
Speaker 1: treated people, um our, philosophies, everything. There was the one
Speaker 1: time that I decided this was probably about fourteen years ago.
Speaker 1: I was working for a major daytime talk show and
Speaker 1: I had clocked in a hundred and eighteen hours that week.
Speaker 1: I had taken one shower. I hadn't I had been
Speaker 1: home for maybe three hours. I survived on diet, coking cigarettes.
Speaker 1: I lost twelve pounds that week. Best at on the planet.
Speaker 1: I got home that Friday, and uh, the first thing
Speaker 1: he said to me was, you know, if you don't
Speaker 1: make yourself more available to me, then I'm going to
Speaker 1: have to go outside of the marriage to you satisfy myself.
Speaker 1: And I was so tired that it was just like okay,
Speaker 1: And I went upstairs and went to sleep because I
Speaker 1: just I had nothing left. I was like, I hadn't
Speaker 1: eaten in seven days. I you know, I was filled
Speaker 1: with diet, coke and nicotine, and I had no sleep.
Speaker 1: And I was just like, all right, do it. I
Speaker 1: mean I didn't say do it, but I was just
Speaker 1: sort of like, I don't have time for this right now.
Speaker 1: If that's what you like is that what he did? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I think, I think so I can. Also,
Speaker 1: that's when I knew. I knew, but I could not
Speaker 1: find my voice. I'm going to up. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: going to admit a lot of stuff that at one
Speaker 1: point made me feel weak, but now it makes me
Speaker 1: feel really strong. So, um, you know, I can fast.
Speaker 1: I did not look at a bank account in seventeen years. Wow,
Speaker 1: I didn't even know the passwords. And you were the thing.
Speaker 1: You were the one bringing home the money he was
Speaker 1: bringing home. He worked in the medical field, so he
Speaker 1: was doing really well, but never never knew anything. So
Speaker 1: that was part of my fear of you know, like
Speaker 1: I'm going to have to like, oh my god, I
Speaker 1: don't even know how to how to do this. So
Speaker 1: it took me a long time to find my voice.
Speaker 1: And it's probably confusing since I have a seven year
Speaker 1: old with him, right, But I kept working at it
Speaker 1: because I kept thinking, I have to make this work.
Speaker 1: My mom and dad are divorced. There must be a
Speaker 1: way to make this work. I'm just going to continue, continue, continue.
Speaker 1: Every day is a new day, just you know. Um.
Speaker 1: And then about two years before I was pregnant, I
Speaker 1: was standing. We had just gotten home from a party,
Speaker 1: and I'm not the kind of person who snooped through phones,
Speaker 1: like I just don't do that. But his phone was
Speaker 1: charging on the counter and a text came in from
Speaker 1: one of the nurses that he worked with, and it said, Oh,
Speaker 1: don't worry, I'm not pregnant. And I was like, oh, okay.
Speaker 1: I was so disconnected though. It didn't even you didn't
Speaker 1: even cry in that moment, so I didn't say anything.
Speaker 1: You didn't know. And I stayed up all night going Okay,
Speaker 1: how do I get out of it? How do I
Speaker 1: just say leave, go go away? And I was still scared.
Speaker 1: I couldn't find my voice. So I just kept working
Speaker 1: and working and working and getting up every day and
Speaker 1: going out with friends. And we didn't really do anything
Speaker 1: to got there. I was going to say, were you
Speaker 1: at this point where you guys still going on dates,
Speaker 1: where you're still looking having sex, where you still like, no,
Speaker 1: m hm, you were roommates, right? So then cut two?
Speaker 1: I mean, it was it was so crazy by then.
Speaker 1: Now I'm what seven or eight, and we're at this
Speaker 1: huge party in mon Olympus pool party where there's a
Speaker 1: tiger and it was insane tiger in a cage pool party.
Speaker 1: It was crazy. Everybody drank way too much taila. We
Speaker 1: end up going home. I am up pregnant two weeks later. Wow,
Speaker 1: which is a gift, by the way, because my son
Speaker 1: is like my heart. Then I was just focused on
Speaker 1: that right, just focused on him having him. We get
Speaker 1: him home in my acts, did nothing to take care
Speaker 1: of him. Never, you know, never woke up once. Never.
Speaker 1: He even took three weeks fraternity leave, did nothing. I
Speaker 1: wasn't there to support you, wasn't there to support your son. Nothing. No.
Speaker 1: At one time I had had to C section and
Speaker 1: it was like we were home for three days and
Speaker 1: he was like I really need a job, and it
Speaker 1: was like you should really go get one. It was
Speaker 1: like because I have staples all the way across my stomach,
Speaker 1: like go away. Um. But you know, so it went
Speaker 1: on for three years that he did nothing, nothing, and
Speaker 1: I was working. I went back to work when he
Speaker 1: was five months old and had so you had somebody
Speaker 1: come in full time to help because nanny during the day,
Speaker 1: but she left by four and then it was me
Speaker 1: all night and um. Even on the weekends. He may
Speaker 1: have taken him to the Park three times in three years.
Speaker 1: He I do have to say he is a way
Speaker 1: better dad now because he has to be. So my
Speaker 1: son was about three and I was suffocating, like I
Speaker 1: was just like I was like, if I don't get
Speaker 1: out of here, I'm going to die. Oh. I was
Speaker 1: just I mean, I was dying, like I just couldn't breathe.
Speaker 1: I couldn't even stand. It got to the point that
Speaker 1: I couldn't even stand to hear his footprints. It was
Speaker 1: like it would just send me into I wouldn't say anything,
Speaker 1: but I would. I just had so much anxiety, like
Speaker 1: almost making a sec Yeah. I would feel physically ill.
Speaker 1: And one of my friends. I only told one person,
Speaker 1: and this friend kept saying, I just have to keep
Speaker 1: practicing with you, like you need to say, hey, can
Speaker 1: you pass the sugar? I want to divorce, And I
Speaker 1: was like I I can't, Like I can't. It was
Speaker 1: always something it was like, oh no, it's his birthday.
Speaker 1: Oh no, it's our anniversary. Oh no, it's Thanksgiving. Oh no,
Speaker 1: it's Christmas. Now, it's New Year's now, it's Valentine's. I
Speaker 1: mean it was always Now my sister is getting married,
Speaker 1: so I don't want to steal the thunder, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean it was always something. So finally, it's like
Speaker 1: a week after Valentine's Rocco was about three and a
Speaker 1: half and I just I couldn't take it one more second.
Speaker 1: And I think it was a work night too. I
Speaker 1: just said, I was like, so, uh, I'm totally done.
Speaker 1: I'm out and we can go to therapy. I'm happy
Speaker 1: to I had already called a psychologist and I had
Speaker 1: told her what was going on over the phone, and
Speaker 1: I was like, therapist, a therapist, you know, I've you know,
Speaker 1: I was telling her the story and I would and
Speaker 1: I said, I would like for us to come in
Speaker 1: and so, you know, we can talk to you. He
Speaker 1: agreed to do that. By the end of that session,
Speaker 1: she looked at him and she said, you you guys
Speaker 1: are on such different planes. You know, it's um that
Speaker 1: you have to go see somebody for a while, and
Speaker 1: you know, and I'll continue to work with Jen, but
Speaker 1: she's done a lot of her work over the years.
Speaker 1: And so I was like, all right, here we go
Speaker 1: the waiting game, and then we um. So he kept going,
Speaker 1: kept going, kept going, and then why are you going?
Speaker 1: He was going, But then about two months into it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I had made up my mind. I was out.
Speaker 1: Two months into it. He comes home and he says,
Speaker 1: you know, you need to come to therapy with me
Speaker 1: next time because I can't figure it out and you
Speaker 1: need to figure it out for me. And I was like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not doing your work for you. I said, this
Speaker 1: is why it won't work, this is why we can't
Speaker 1: like I can't. I didn't want my you know, I
Speaker 1: told him I don't want my son growing up thinking
Speaker 1: that this is the way a relationship is. No communication,
Speaker 1: you know, nobody you know, loving or talking or going
Speaker 1: out to eat and having conversation. Um, it was just
Speaker 1: I just didn't want it. Why do you think he
Speaker 1: didn't leave? Because so complacent and I was easy. You
Speaker 1: never he would say, I want to go to Vegas
Speaker 1: with all the guys, All right, go? And did you
Speaker 1: say that because you didn't want to put up a fighter?
Speaker 1: You just didn't care. I just didn't care. So then
Speaker 1: that was it. You know. We went to the therapy.
Speaker 1: It wasn't working, and he left for ten months and
Speaker 1: went to a different state and came back twice, and
Speaker 1: then he moved back here. And while we were going
Speaker 1: through all of the legal we went to a mediator
Speaker 1: and the deal was, he pays nothing at all. I
Speaker 1: do everything, so he pays no child's part. He pays nothing,
Speaker 1: doesn't even buy he buys nothing for him. I buy
Speaker 1: him out of the house. And he agreed to all that.
Speaker 1: And then at the very end he said, he looked
Speaker 1: at the mediator and he said, I want my last
Speaker 1: name back. I think you've been like dying to keep it.
Speaker 1: Oh well, you're entire, but your entire entire entertainment career.
Speaker 1: I didn't even think about that portion of it because
Speaker 1: normally that it doesn't play into it. He just wanted
Speaker 1: to stick it to you every single way he could. Yes,
Speaker 1: So we have so many mutual friends from a different state,
Speaker 1: and he has completely poisoned a lot of them because
Speaker 1: he tells them, oh my gosh, I pay for all
Speaker 1: the camps. I pay her child's part. She doesn't let
Speaker 1: me see him. You know. He takes them every Wednesday,
Speaker 1: every other weekend, um, whenever he wants. Really, but he
Speaker 1: doesn't ask for any more than that. But he he
Speaker 1: got off like Scott free nothing. So I do everything,
Speaker 1: even if he's going to be late on one of
Speaker 1: the nights that he has him, I still have to
Speaker 1: pay the nanny, right. Well, I mean this goes back
Speaker 1: to even what we were talking about last week when
Speaker 1: it comes to narcissism and when you are married to
Speaker 1: a narcissist and you have children with one, it's really
Speaker 1: just parenting with an elephant on your back. Absolutely, that's
Speaker 1: that's what she said. That's exactly my experience. And he
Speaker 1: is a narcissist. I mean, everything you're describing to me,
Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, I mean, but now I need to
Speaker 1: know is it his last name or your last name
Speaker 1: that you currently have? It's his? You got that, you
Speaker 1: got it, got it. That's one thing I thought, we
Speaker 1: still got a chance. I got the last name. I
Speaker 1: was like, I just need to know. And so now
Speaker 1: I'm dating. And how long ago was the divorce? We
Speaker 1: separated almost four years ago and the divorce was final
Speaker 1: a year ago. It took a long time. And even
Speaker 1: still talking about I can see that, like it's still
Speaker 1: hard to talk about it is. But I have to say,
Speaker 1: the second he walked out the tour, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I felt free everything. I was a totally different person
Speaker 1: I was. I was back to being me. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: many years of just doing what you felt like you
Speaker 1: had to do because I felt so trapped. So not
Speaker 1: only that, but I had to learn how to do everything.
Speaker 1: I had to log into the bank account. So do
Speaker 1: you think because you've been through so much pain during
Speaker 1: the relation and ship that the breakup was less painful?
Speaker 1: It wasn't painful at all because you were done. I
Speaker 1: was so done that as soon as I got the
Speaker 1: words out, I mean I had already grieved at all.
Speaker 1: I really had. You've been grieving for seventeen years. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a long breakup. It took you that long
Speaker 1: to get there. But that's a long time. Pass the
Speaker 1: sugar I wanted to lure. It seems like a good play.
Speaker 1: I need to meet that friend. Well, not bad, I know.
Speaker 1: And we learned today you have to know your worth
Speaker 1: and not be afraid to set at the table and
Speaker 1: eat dinner alone. And I've googled like how to get
Speaker 1: over a breakup like maybe like two times, and I
Speaker 1: just am so sick of like love yourself. But we
Speaker 1: learned like steps that you can take. Right. She had
Speaker 1: some good stuff also that it's like a drug withdrawal,
Speaker 1: So it's like you got to give it a minute.
Speaker 1: You have to remember that that feeling isn't that you
Speaker 1: need to be back with that person. That feeling is
Speaker 1: actually you're going through withdrawal, right, And when you think
Speaker 1: about it like that, it's like it is, isn't it
Speaker 1: so sorry telling me it's time to bring up I
Speaker 1: liked it. I still can't believe the conscious unkind here.
Speaker 1: And we didn't know that. We didn't even know when
Speaker 1: she said it. And I was about to be like,
Speaker 1: you know, saying a teddy type comment. I was like,
Speaker 1: a good thing. I didn't. Sometimes you listen to your
Speaker 1: guts her she still believed a marriage because I wanted
Speaker 1: to ask her so badly. It's Gwyneth and the new
Speaker 1: husband have moved into a house yet, because they did. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I don't know how I missed that. I think because
Speaker 1: I'm so stuck on them living in separate houses for
Speaker 1: a year that they lived together. Now. God, I respect Gwynneth.
Speaker 1: I love every weird thing she does so much, like
Speaker 1: the fact that she's just like, I don't care, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna live in two separate houses. I think that could work.
Speaker 1: Apparently work, but apparent in the end, they ended up
Speaker 1: moving in together. They wanted to give the kids sometimes
Speaker 1: and I'm not making this up. I saw a given interview.
Speaker 1: I'm like, are you and are you and Gwyneth close? Um?
Speaker 1: I wish if I could be best friends with her,
Speaker 1: I'd be stoked. I want to be best friends with
Speaker 1: Gwyneth Paldrow. Can't get me on goop Her Garner. I
Speaker 1: think that chick is awesome to want is um and
Speaker 1: Drew Barrymore's one, I think I think they could be
Speaker 1: buffs and then I'd worship my Oprah. But whatever. Um.
Speaker 1: People should email us Teddy, because next week we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about infertility, getting pregnant later in life, getting
Speaker 1: pregnant on your own, like sperm donor um, all kinds
Speaker 1: of carriages, not having kids at all, like all the
Speaker 1: topics that surround women, and and honestly spent so many
Speaker 1: years of my life struggling with and I can't imagine
Speaker 1: talking not talking about this topic because so many of
Speaker 1: us struggle alone with it. That please, any questions you have,
Speaker 1: I am going to be an open book. I'm also
Speaker 1: going to bring in professionals that can help us understand
Speaker 1: and also help us get through it. Email us at
Speaker 1: Teddy t at I heeart radio dot com, or hit
Speaker 1: Teddy up on our Instagram. Thank you, I don't Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening. Subscribe a C. T. Pot on Heart Radio
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts.