Speaker 1: The late fifteen ten touchdowns. We're exactly twenty eight days
Speaker 1: from the NFL Draft. Welcome into another episode of Chargers Weekly,
Speaker 1: as always, joined by Matt Money, Smith and Money. We
Speaker 1: got our front of the show right off the top.
Speaker 1: Lead draft analyst Pro Football Focus Mike Renner, and you
Speaker 1: mentioned this last week. We're just talking about it all fair.
Speaker 1: You've done a few of these these bock draft simulators.
Speaker 1: How many hundred? A lot? A lot. It's fun. You know.
Speaker 1: I cannot recommend it enough. People go to PF dot
Speaker 1: com one download Mike's draft guide. It's awesome. It's it's
Speaker 1: time consuming. You'll find yourself lost. You look up and
Speaker 1: you've spend an hour and a half reading what Mike's
Speaker 1: probably put what eight months into ten months into Mike,
Speaker 1: it's uh, no doubt, labor of love. I would assume
Speaker 1: it has to be for the amount of time you
Speaker 1: put into it. But the mock draft, let's just start there, Mike.
Speaker 1: This thing's incredible for people they kind of can't. Maybe
Speaker 1: I'll actually fire one off on Turbo and you can
Speaker 1: walk me through, because I would assume it's your rankings
Speaker 1: that are that are at play when it comes to
Speaker 1: the mock draft simulator. So you see my rankings that
Speaker 1: are the mock draft simulator, but like the actual draft
Speaker 1: order is somewhat random, and the way the players come
Speaker 1: off the board, there's a randomness. But we base it
Speaker 1: off of a lot of public facing boards, whether it's
Speaker 1: like Daniel Jeremiah, whether Dame brug We're like a lot
Speaker 1: of the draft analysts kind of get a conglomerate consensus opinion,
Speaker 1: and that's kind of where the guys end up coming
Speaker 1: off the board. So let's here we go. Ready, we're
Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna fire one right here, and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: take the Chargers at twenty one. I'm gonna enter the draft.
Speaker 1: I got it on turbo, and you're gonna tell me
Speaker 1: what you think the best option is and start draft.
Speaker 1: Here we go, twenty one. We got Dalton Kincaid. When
Speaker 1: we've talked about a lot tight end, Gerald Everett coming back, No,
Speaker 1: Dalton Schultz. We got Nolan Smith. We need some edge
Speaker 1: rush depth, Za Flowers, need some explosiveness there at the
Speaker 1: wide receiver. And let's say, okay, so we got two
Speaker 1: tight ends Michael Mary there as well. So if I
Speaker 1: throw those four names, oh, in the cornerback Deante Banks.
Speaker 1: You all needs for the charger. So if that's what
Speaker 1: Tom Talsco is staring at, and I give you this
Speaker 1: option as well, Mike, you can trade down someone wants
Speaker 1: to jump into that spot and we'll give you a two,
Speaker 1: a three, and let's just say a future three as well.
Speaker 1: So how about that. I like the idea of trading down.
Speaker 1: If all those guys are on the board right there,
Speaker 1: I think they're in a good spot to trade down
Speaker 1: because I think there's kind of like a couple of
Speaker 1: tiers in this draft class and I don't think they're
Speaker 1: going to get into that first tier of position players,
Speaker 1: and so they're gonna have a lot of options on
Speaker 1: the board available, and so like all those guys you mentioned,
Speaker 1: I think they'd be happy with any of them. So
Speaker 1: I think this is raster that needs to sort of
Speaker 1: plan long term thinking wise, because justin Herbert's extensions coming
Speaker 1: out right, there's gonna be a lot of money going
Speaker 1: his way. And when that's the case, you need cheap talent.
Speaker 1: You can't get that one piece that's the difference between
Speaker 1: you and a championship. You know, you're in the same
Speaker 1: division as Patrick Mahomes. There is no one piece that's
Speaker 1: going to be the difference between you and a championship.
Speaker 1: You need to be there every single year. If you're
Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Chargers and so do that. It takes
Speaker 1: more rookie talent keep breeding that young talent, So that
Speaker 1: would be the route I'd explore if I had to
Speaker 1: pick any of those guys, though, I think the one
Speaker 1: I keep coming back to for the charge if he's
Speaker 1: there is Dalton Kincaid, the tight end, and I don't
Speaker 1: usually go to bat for tight ends that high in
Speaker 1: the draft, which should tell you like how good a
Speaker 1: prospect Kincaid is, but it's just the reliability aspect of him.
Speaker 1: I think he pairs very well with Justin Herbert's game,
Speaker 1: because Herbert is a guy who is a flamethrower, and
Speaker 1: he's going to throw with anticipation to you. You better
Speaker 1: be ready to catch it. Some of these other smaller
Speaker 1: slot wide receivers I don't think pair well with Justin
Speaker 1: Herbert and kind of like if you have a smaller
Speaker 1: catch radius, I just don't think he's going to target
Speaker 1: you very much. And that is not the case with
Speaker 1: Dalton cain Kad. Massive catch radius, some of the best
Speaker 1: ball skills I've ever seen from a tight end prospect.
Speaker 1: So pairing him in that offense, I just think he
Speaker 1: would go off. I think it would be a perfect
Speaker 1: fit and kind of something they're missing. Like we've talked
Speaker 1: so much about the tight end position the last few
Speaker 1: weeks specifically, and money has been on the concaid train
Speaker 1: since I don't know when, since you were you're covering
Speaker 1: Utah games right back back Uta USC game and watched
Speaker 1: them absolutely destroy a defense single handedly. What would he
Speaker 1: mean to a Charger's office with Mike Williams and Keenan Allen. Obviously,
Speaker 1: this Austin Eckler situation is still in flux, but obviously
Speaker 1: Gerald Everard is there kind of the short term. But
Speaker 1: to get you a Travis Kelsey like player in pairing
Speaker 1: with Justin Herbert in the West, that sounds like a
Speaker 1: pretty good formula. I think it is. And I think
Speaker 1: the one thing they're they're missing a couple of things
Speaker 1: in there, Stephen cor at the moment, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: one they're missing pure dynamism, like a guy who can
Speaker 1: really stretch the football field. But to me, you can
Speaker 1: find that in the second and third round this receiving class.
Speaker 1: I don't think this class is short on those type
Speaker 1: but wide receivers that really have some juice to bring
Speaker 1: to the table. But I also think what they need
Speaker 1: is a guy who can win one on one consistently
Speaker 1: when you see man coverage, and the beauty of a
Speaker 1: Dalton kincaide is that he's not getting covered by corners
Speaker 1: the way Mike Williams and Keenan Allen are. He's getting
Speaker 1: covered by safety so he can covered by linebackers when
Speaker 1: you see man coverage and all of a sudden, that's
Speaker 1: you know, mismatch, that's green light going right to him.
Speaker 1: So I think that would be, you know, a thing
Speaker 1: that they're missing that again would really kind of have
Speaker 1: a wave like effect, and that it would impact everyone
Speaker 1: else and if everyone else's life easier in that receiving corps,
Speaker 1: Mike a lotta you know you mentioned Daniel DJ's got
Speaker 1: Zay Flowers mocked to the Chargers. Right now at twenty one,
Speaker 1: Dalton's off the board. I think he has him going
Speaker 1: to the Patriots if I remember right in this most
Speaker 1: recent mock. But let's just to get into Zay. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you know, like everybody, it seems as though
Speaker 1: this is now the receiver that maybe started down in
Speaker 1: the five six slot. Chris Sim's got him his number one.
Speaker 1: You know, the athletic guys are freaking out over him.
Speaker 1: DJ's got him going to the Chargers kind of walk
Speaker 1: us through Zay Jones and kind of why he feels
Speaker 1: like he's getting this push and a lot of people
Speaker 1: think he might be the best receiver in this draft.
Speaker 1: He's got that kind of Noah when you see a
Speaker 1: type of athleticism that is just if he wants to
Speaker 1: go in a straight line, it's fast. If he wants
Speaker 1: to turn left, it's fast. If he wants to stop,
Speaker 1: it's fast. Like everything he kind of does almost reminiscent
Speaker 1: of like a poor man's jail and wattle, and that's
Speaker 1: just he's sudden. He is a very quick dude, and
Speaker 1: that's what's winning in the NFL. That's the way of
Speaker 1: the world at the wide receiver position today is you
Speaker 1: need guys who create space on their own and Zay
Speaker 1: Flowers is one of them. And so again, if you're
Speaker 1: thinking kind of what I just said, what the Charger
Speaker 1: receiving corps is missing, it is missing that high end
Speaker 1: caliber of athlete that if he's running you know deep
Speaker 1: out of safety has to be accounted for. That's really
Speaker 1: going to you know, again, make corners and safeties play
Speaker 1: more often open up windows then underneath four year underneath
Speaker 1: guys like Mike Williams and Keenan Allen. So I think
Speaker 1: that's why you're seeing that connection being made a ton Mike.
Speaker 1: What about Quentin Johnson for TCU. I you've tweetered about him.
Speaker 1: I think there's varying opinions about him and his style
Speaker 1: play and how would that look in a Chargers offense,
Speaker 1: especially when we don't really know the future of Mike
Speaker 1: and Keenan beyond twenty twenty three. Yeah, So that's the
Speaker 1: thing is, I'm not sure the role he fits in
Speaker 1: there and maybe you know, if again to your four
Speaker 1: would think and you're thinking post life with Keenan Allen,
Speaker 1: he can obviously take over that role, but he is
Speaker 1: an outside type of wide receiver. That's the body type
Speaker 1: he has, that's the play that's where he played pretty
Speaker 1: much exclusively at TCU, and I think that's where he
Speaker 1: shines is like the vertical tree to me, like the
Speaker 1: role ideal role for him is a lot like the
Speaker 1: ideal role for DK Metcalf that DK Metcal's playing in
Speaker 1: Seattle at the next level, which is he's your let
Speaker 1: you know, he's one side of the formation wide receiver.
Speaker 1: He's the guy that you know, if you have a
Speaker 1: small or corner over there on him, you're a little
Speaker 1: worried because he is so big, because he does have
Speaker 1: such a big catch rasis because he can't get down
Speaker 1: the football field. But he is a project. I do
Speaker 1: think he's not nearly the refined route runner as is
Speaker 1: a Flowers, Jackson Smith and Jig but Jordanas and the
Speaker 1: other three wide receivers getting pretty firm first round hype
Speaker 1: at the moment. But in terms of pure physical talent,
Speaker 1: like this guy is unique. He's right up in the
Speaker 1: realms of you know, the Jamar Chases, the Julio Jones
Speaker 1: is of just like athletes that you don't see every
Speaker 1: single year at the position. So I think he's well
Speaker 1: worth taking a chance on. But you do have to
Speaker 1: just realize that he is much more of a boomer
Speaker 1: Bus prospect the probably these other guys. All Right, we're
Speaker 1: in round two mock draft simulator pick number four, Trey
Speaker 1: didn't come through. We've taken Dalton kincaide for uster justin
Speaker 1: in the first round. Second round, Now Nathaniel Dell is there.
Speaker 1: If we want a wide receiver, you got edge rusher
Speaker 1: Tuli Tupolotu of a usc sitting there corner Garrett Williams
Speaker 1: and a lot of people start to kind of push
Speaker 1: him up, him up a little bit, Carl Brooks, the
Speaker 1: edge out of Bowling Green is sitting there. Just kind
Speaker 1: of your thoughts. Let's see if there's any other wide receivers,
Speaker 1: because we just want to load up on offense. Michael Wilson.
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people starting to get high
Speaker 1: on Michael Wilson. So maybe let's focus on a couple
Speaker 1: of those wide receivers, Rashi, Rice Smu just kind of
Speaker 1: a few of those, or if you like the edge
Speaker 1: until we put it through, like kind of just your
Speaker 1: thoughts of what's available here in the second Yeah, take
Speaker 1: Dell would be a guy who would bring you know,
Speaker 1: he's almost like a poor man Zay Flowers in this
Speaker 1: draft class, and that he's just a little bit lighter,
Speaker 1: a little bit shorter, although he does have a bigger wingspan.
Speaker 1: I believe then Zay Flowers, which to me is more
Speaker 1: important at wide receiver. It's your ability to you know,
Speaker 1: make plays outside your frame that matters, not your ability
Speaker 1: to get you know, ten eleven feet in the year necessarily.
Speaker 1: That is the bigger aspect of playing wide receiver. So
Speaker 1: he's a guy that if again, if you're not getting
Speaker 1: one of the wide receivers, you're not getting that dynamism
Speaker 1: on day one. At the wide receiver position, it would
Speaker 1: be guys like Tank Deal, guys Kashaw Boutet from LSU,
Speaker 1: guys like Marvin Mims from Oklahoma, all names that you know,
Speaker 1: bring some athleticism, even Tyler Scott from Cincinnati bring you know,
Speaker 1: low four fours take the top off a defense sort
Speaker 1: of thing. You just need that threat. You don't necessarily
Speaker 1: need them to come in and catch one hundred balls.
Speaker 1: You just need that to be able to deploy in
Speaker 1: certain ways in your offense. I love the way we're
Speaker 1: doing this interview is money does the mocks. I'm going
Speaker 1: to ask you just about some of these storylines that
Speaker 1: may affect the Chargers, and I think the biggest name
Speaker 1: that could be really a wild card in the first
Speaker 1: round is heading Hooker like if five quarterbacks go before
Speaker 1: the Chargers of twenty one, maybe a blue chipper at
Speaker 1: a certain position group falls in their lap. How do
Speaker 1: you view this quarterback class? Obviously the Chargers have their quarterback,
Speaker 1: but there's a lot of entry with those first four.
Speaker 1: And now you're hearing about Hooker, and you know, obviously
Speaker 1: that that injury last year kind of takes him out
Speaker 1: of people's minds a little bit, but he was excellent
Speaker 1: at Tennessee. He was, and it's a good quarterback class.
Speaker 1: I like the top four. I think last year you
Speaker 1: were just comparing those four to last year's class, all
Speaker 1: four would have gone as QB one. I think all
Speaker 1: four would have been top ten picks last year. And
Speaker 1: the only reason one of those top four might fall
Speaker 1: this year it is just because there's too many, right,
Speaker 1: you know, we saw it even in twenty twenty one
Speaker 1: when there was you know, Justin Fields fell out of
Speaker 1: top ten, Mac Jones Halls out of top ten, just
Speaker 1: because there's not enough landing spots for these guys. So
Speaker 1: we could see that, and that's that's also why I
Speaker 1: don't necessarily buy the Hooker into the first round. Hype
Speaker 1: is because of landing spots is because of how many
Speaker 1: people are going to say my one first round pick
Speaker 1: that I have. And now there are like a bunch
Speaker 1: of teams in this year's draft that have multiple more
Speaker 1: so than usual. But with my one first round pick,
Speaker 1: I'm going to use it on a guy who's gonna
Speaker 1: have to red shirt year one, who's coming off of
Speaker 1: torn because he's coming off torn acl playing from an
Speaker 1: offense in Tennessee. That was, you know, gimmick. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: it not NFL. I'll just say not NFL concepts. And
Speaker 1: then he's twenty five years old, so just not a
Speaker 1: strong profile that you don't need to take that chance
Speaker 1: round one. You could fall in love with his tape,
Speaker 1: but I just don't think anyone's going to see that
Speaker 1: and say, yeah, that'll be my one first round pick. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess. So what do you think is behind the heat, Mike,
Speaker 1: Because it does feel like there's like there's a little
Speaker 1: and we kind of know the characteristics that Chris Ballard likes.
Speaker 1: There's heat connecting him to the Colts at this point,
Speaker 1: where like where is that coming from? Well, he has
Speaker 1: talented again, his tape is good, he has tools, he
Speaker 1: has a strong arm, like his arms right up there
Speaker 1: with I don't think it's quite Will Levis or Anthony Richardson,
Speaker 1: but I probably put it a little bit better than
Speaker 1: even like Bryce Young and CJ. Strout in terms of
Speaker 1: natural Whippy has is a great athlete, and everyone's searching
Speaker 1: for those tools, right, That's what you see a year
Speaker 1: and a year out. What's winning or what the path
Speaker 1: to sort of high end that the NFL looks like
Speaker 1: is rushing ability paired with a big arm that gives
Speaker 1: you options in today's NFL, when you don't have to
Speaker 1: be just your pocket passers of old that has to
Speaker 1: hit everything in timing, you can go create on your own.
Speaker 1: So I think Henny Hooker brings some of that to
Speaker 1: the table. They've already seen kind of the high end
Speaker 1: production that he put on the football field, So there
Speaker 1: is a lot to like. But again with those knocks,
Speaker 1: it just comes down to the investment. How much are
Speaker 1: you willing to make And I can't see a team
Speaker 1: willing to invest that much in him. Chris. I was
Speaker 1: just gonna say, Mike, we've had this debate kind of
Speaker 1: all offseason about drafting a running back in the first round. Question,
Speaker 1: there you go Bijan Robinson is that guy that we
Speaker 1: talk about and what he could be in a Charger's
Speaker 1: office with Justin Herbert. How much more dynamic Justin Herbert
Speaker 1: can be with with a bell cut like Bjohn Robinson
Speaker 1: back there, even with Austin Eckler in the offense. Just
Speaker 1: wondering where you fall in terms of drafting a running
Speaker 1: back in the first round. And let's just say for
Speaker 1: the sake of this conversation, I don't think he will,
Speaker 1: but let's say Robinson is there at twenty one in
Speaker 1: the Chargers are looking at that card thinking maybe we
Speaker 1: turn this in. So I don't think I'm not completely
Speaker 1: against the idea of drafting running back in the first round.
Speaker 1: It is, in some offenses a valuable position, and you're
Speaker 1: getting them at their prime, right, You're getting them at
Speaker 1: their prime, and you're getting them fairly cheap. I'm definitely
Speaker 1: against paying top dollar for running backs and premes. He
Speaker 1: wants to hit like twenty seven, twenty eight, But there's
Speaker 1: little reason to think that Bejan Robinson won't be an
Speaker 1: insanely productive NFL player. The problem is, do I want
Speaker 1: to take the ball out of Justin Herbert's tans? The
Speaker 1: answer to that is no, I think Justin Herbert has
Speaker 1: shown that he can carry a full workload. You know,
Speaker 1: he can be a fifty to sixty drop backs the game,
Speaker 1: and you want him to be that. And so then
Speaker 1: from that perspective, like you're already diminishing the value. If
Speaker 1: you're only going to give Bejan Robinson twelve carries a game,
Speaker 1: you're twelve to fifteen carries. Again, that's you're already diminishing that.
Speaker 1: So already taking it down a step. And then I
Speaker 1: don't think you want to be drafting running backs highly
Speaker 1: to try to fix your offensive line to go and
Speaker 1: assume that a running back is going to be able
Speaker 1: to succeed behind poor run blocking. If you don't have
Speaker 1: that aspect in place, first, a running back is not
Speaker 1: going to especially in today's NFL. It's just not going
Speaker 1: to provide that return on investment. So I'm only four
Speaker 1: draft running backs if one you don't have necessarily like
Speaker 1: the guy at quarterback, If you are kind of like
Speaker 1: where the Falcons are, if you're a run heavy team
Speaker 1: as an ethos to begin with, and you have maybe
Speaker 1: an average to slightly above average quarterback, then I'll draft
Speaker 1: a running back to make him my focal point. If
Speaker 1: I have the offensive line to take my running game
Speaker 1: to that level that's like the unstoppable level. That's fine
Speaker 1: to do in my opinion. But if you're any other team,
Speaker 1: like the difference between him in round one and say
Speaker 1: you take Bigsby from Auburn around three, you're splitting hairs
Speaker 1: with the value they'd bring to the Chargers. Whereas then
Speaker 1: that first rounder that's a wide receiver like say Flowers,
Speaker 1: going to bring a lot more on the table. All right, well,
Speaker 1: let's go to round three. Let's see if we got
Speaker 1: Isaiah McGuire, we took we took Uh, we took dal
Speaker 1: by the way, so we got a wide receiver, we
Speaker 1: got our tight end. Here's some edge options. Isaiah McGuire,
Speaker 1: kJ Henry, Mike Morris, Carl Brooks all there. Uh, let's
Speaker 1: see if our guy, Yeah, Tank Bigsby's there, Dwayne McBride
Speaker 1: is there, Kendra Miller is there. Uh. We are big
Speaker 1: proponents on the pod, uh, Mike of draft an offensive lineman,
Speaker 1: if not two, maybe even three every single year. Develop
Speaker 1: you see how what a premium that position has turned
Speaker 1: into in terms of free agency, what you're paying tackles,
Speaker 1: So we got a couple of tackles here, Tyler Steen,
Speaker 1: Luke Haggard, Connor, Galvin Er. There a couple interior offensive
Speaker 1: linemen if uh, let's see, oh Vorhees is there so
Speaker 1: maybe a little red shirt, but you get a little
Speaker 1: value on on Vorhees uh Zavala, Olawa, Timy. So couple
Speaker 1: couple options there. I guess if you want to, I'm
Speaker 1: happy to pull any other position group up. That's the
Speaker 1: magic of this mock draft simulator. What's the corner class
Speaker 1: look like? People? Is a deep deep Like that position
Speaker 1: to me is the deepest of any positions. I guess
Speaker 1: running back kind of his two, but corner just year
Speaker 1: on year comparatively. Like there are so many names that
Speaker 1: I watched them like that's you know, that guy should
Speaker 1: be a top hundred pick. That guy should be a
Speaker 1: top hundred pick. And the third round then feels like
Speaker 1: a good spot if you're the charges to take pick
Speaker 1: eighty five. You got Syracuse, williams Hodges, Tomlinson, Jalen Jones,
Speaker 1: A and M. Bennett, Maryland, Kelly Stanford, Martin Illinois, Clark, Louisville, Moss, Iowa,
Speaker 1: McKay Black Blackman, USC there's your top according to your rankings.
Speaker 1: I would love I would love Kwon Martin there the
Speaker 1: Illinois slot corner slash safety. I think he's a versatile
Speaker 1: body type that can do either, has played both, has
Speaker 1: played outside corner and safety at Illinois. Very explosive. That's
Speaker 1: a guy I would love for Brandon Staley in that defense.
Speaker 1: Just adding some more versatile players to a defense that
Speaker 1: you know needs like covets for silly like Derwin James.
Speaker 1: When you have a guy like that, like you want
Speaker 1: other guys who can backfill for Derwin James to play
Speaker 1: a bunch of different roles, and so I think Kwan
Speaker 1: Martin would be a great hit for them at that point.
Speaker 1: Just quickly want to point out on the pod we
Speaker 1: are proponents of doing nothing but adding offense on defense.
Speaker 1: All we do is undrafted free agents. Good luck Brandon Staley.
Speaker 1: Patrick Holmes cannot be stopped. He can only perhaps be outscored.
Speaker 1: We're not interested in trying to stop him. It's we've
Speaker 1: seen too many of these games where Justin Herbert scores
Speaker 1: a touchdown with three minutes left and they lose the game.
Speaker 1: So all we want to do is have offensive weapons.
Speaker 1: That is well, I'm sorry, coach, coach day buddy, that's
Speaker 1: that is all we want to do. That's why we
Speaker 1: have Mike bring us back down to earth a little bit,
Speaker 1: just get a different perspective. Hey, let's just say they
Speaker 1: don't draft offense in the first round at twenty one,
Speaker 1: knowing what the Chargers defense did. They came up strong
Speaker 1: last year. But there's some older guys I think the
Speaker 1: edge position, Mike, when you talk about Joey Bose and
Speaker 1: his injury history and obviously Khalil Mack getting a year older,
Speaker 1: not a lot of depth behind those guys at the
Speaker 1: edge position at around twenty one. Who could you envision
Speaker 1: maybe being there that the Chargers would be Like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I think someone like Will McDonald from Iowa State would
Speaker 1: be someone that would be intriguing in that he can
Speaker 1: obviously still play a role with those two guys on
Speaker 1: the football field. He's rushed a lot from the interior
Speaker 1: over his career at Iowa State, but I do think
Speaker 1: he comes kind of with a project label because he
Speaker 1: needs to get stronger. He's two hundred and forty pounds
Speaker 1: six foot five, like he needs to add some muscle
Speaker 1: to his frame to continue to adjust the NFL game.
Speaker 1: But he's a freak athlete, high end athlete that if
Speaker 1: he can just learn from two other you know, elite
Speaker 1: edge rushers, rub off on him a little bit, I
Speaker 1: think you could have an impact player down the road.
Speaker 1: So that might be a guy who could be in
Speaker 1: the mix there. If you are looking edge, how good
Speaker 1: is them? I didn't want to butcher his name. How
Speaker 1: good is Cancy from Pittsburgh? Is he like? Obviously the
Speaker 1: Aaron Donald comparisons are there because he's a pit guy
Speaker 1: because of his size. But what are we talking about
Speaker 1: because we know Aaron Donald slid. I was going to
Speaker 1: bring him up before you brought up edge that. I
Speaker 1: think he would be a great fit. Obviously, brand Salley
Speaker 1: works and wondrous with a guy like Aaron Donald's defense,
Speaker 1: but I just think great compliment on third downs too.
Speaker 1: If you have Joey bos and you have Khalil Mack,
Speaker 1: Kalijah Cancy on the interior would be a scary add
Speaker 1: to that because he is the best athlete I've seen
Speaker 1: that defensive tackle. I mean, he tested out better than
Speaker 1: Aaron Donald. He ran a faster fur than Aaron Donald,
Speaker 1: had a faster three cone than Aaron Donald. This guy
Speaker 1: is as nimble as you'll see for two hundred and
Speaker 1: eighty two pounds, but he still is two hundred and
Speaker 1: eighty two pounds you're not expecting plus run defense. He
Speaker 1: is probably not going to be an every down play
Speaker 1: or year one for you, but he knows how to
Speaker 1: rush the pastor and even at you know, even at
Speaker 1: his size, I trust him to be able to get
Speaker 1: after quarterbacks because man, the athlete is just so so
Speaker 1: rare and so impressive that he may not even last
Speaker 1: to where the Chargers you're drafted. Important to point out,
Speaker 1: by the way, Aaron Donald not a good run defender.
Speaker 1: So like for people that are like, oh, you can't
Speaker 1: do it. The Chargers run defense is too terrible. Hey,
Speaker 1: Aaron Donald wreck shop And if you look at his
Speaker 1: numbers against the run, they're not great. He's more of
Speaker 1: a He's a unique run defender in that you have
Speaker 1: to like get him one on one and he has
Speaker 1: to have the ability to make plays like when left
Speaker 1: or right. He's just not going to sit on a block.
Speaker 1: You know, the traditional how you want your front four
Speaker 1: to all play and run defense as a unison as
Speaker 1: one unit. You're gonna have to bend the rules a
Speaker 1: little bit for a guy like Aaron Donald and for
Speaker 1: a guy like clash Cancy Mike. It's no secret the
Speaker 1: Chargers needs speed at wide receiver. We saw it and
Speaker 1: how it hurt the team towards the back half of
Speaker 1: the year, especially with Jalen Giton out. Now they're gonna
Speaker 1: need a punt returner. DeAndre Carter goes to the Raiders.
Speaker 1: Are there guys maybe in mid to late rounds that
Speaker 1: have the speed slash punt return capability that could maybe
Speaker 1: fulfill both roles, get you some speed on offense and
Speaker 1: also provide some special teams choose. One of the more
Speaker 1: intriguing returners to me in this draft class is Keaton
Speaker 1: Mitchell's running back though from ECU. I love his open
Speaker 1: field vision he has. I think he had thirty one
Speaker 1: runs of fifteen plus yards this year, which was like
Speaker 1: five more than anyone else in the country. Like, he
Speaker 1: knows how to go find space in the open field
Speaker 1: and then or three seven speed. So he's one of
Speaker 1: if you're looking for a returner, a guy I would
Speaker 1: point to and probably rounds five, you know, or later.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of wide receivers in this class,
Speaker 1: though with like real deal return nobility. Maybe I think
Speaker 1: Trey Tucker from Cincinnati is an intriguing guy as a returner.
Speaker 1: Him and de Mario Douglass from Liberty or two guys
Speaker 1: that I don't think you're really putting in the starting lineup.
Speaker 1: They're both like five eight, but like one eight. You know,
Speaker 1: they're not really They're like a role a gadget type
Speaker 1: of role player on offense. But I think both can
Speaker 1: add some value in the return game. I'd love to
Speaker 1: know Mike, because I mean, talk about just a true
Speaker 1: savior of the season. Jamari sawlier Rashaun Slater goes down
Speaker 1: with three. You're already kind of, you know, dealing with
Speaker 1: injuries all over the place on this team. Jamari saw
Speaker 1: your steps in and you know, was he elite? No?
Speaker 1: But he provided stability sort of? What what led to
Speaker 1: him falling all the way to the sixth round one
Speaker 1: a national championship? Played inside, played outside? Just kind of
Speaker 1: how how did that happen? How did the Chargers end
Speaker 1: up with a starting left tackle in the sixth Your
Speaker 1: guests is as good as my I think it was
Speaker 1: injury related. I have heard that it was, but at
Speaker 1: like if it wasn't an injury that kept him out
Speaker 1: of his rookie I could not fathom why he fell
Speaker 1: that far in the draft because this wasn't you know,
Speaker 1: this wasn't like an under scouted guy who wasn't on radars.
Speaker 1: You know, he's a multi year starter at Georgia left tackle,
Speaker 1: win a national championship. It didn't make sense then, still
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. Now he's a damn good player, like
Speaker 1: he was top he was in the top sixty on
Speaker 1: the PFF draft board, like his second round grade last year.
Speaker 1: It falls all the way to sixth. So obviously the
Speaker 1: Chargers the beneficiary. That's a long term starter. I think
Speaker 1: you've got both your starting guards in one draft, truthfully,
Speaker 1: which hats off time to LESCo. Yeah, hey, Mike, last
Speaker 1: one for me and this goes to the other guy,
Speaker 1: Zion Johnson, who was selected by the Charges of seventeen overall.
Speaker 1: And I think, like you said, they found one of
Speaker 1: their future starters at guard for the next decade plus.
Speaker 1: What did you see coming out and what did you
Speaker 1: see in his first year and did it match up
Speaker 1: to the evaluation? Yeah, I thought he was going to
Speaker 1: be a little bit better, but I think you saw
Speaker 1: him come on, maybe after a little early season struggles,
Speaker 1: but he was a guy who just consistent snap after snap,
Speaker 1: and and just from like a tools traits perspective, is
Speaker 1: how you would build a guard like his. From his frame,
Speaker 1: his lower half, his massive, huge hands, long arms, just
Speaker 1: you saw a guy that you felt felt like you
Speaker 1: just knew it was gonna be a darn good guard
Speaker 1: in the NFL. About one of the safest picks that
Speaker 1: you can make in the NFL draft. And so I
Speaker 1: think that's why, you know, maybe with other needs on
Speaker 1: the roster, just like this guy's gonna be good, we're
Speaker 1: just gonna take him. Maybe it's a little rich in
Speaker 1: the top twenty four guard, but we're just gonna take him.
Speaker 1: And so that's how I felt about him. And I
Speaker 1: think you're probably going to see that more in year two,
Speaker 1: year three, just because NFL transition is tough for everybody.
Speaker 1: But I think with the full NFL off season, he's
Speaker 1: gonna be a darn good one. So I guess maybe
Speaker 1: my last one. I may have one more, Mike, then
Speaker 1: we'll let you go. Thanks so much for the time.
Speaker 1: Just the their third rounder j T. Woods. You know,
Speaker 1: so much excitement led the ncuble an interest options, a
Speaker 1: lot of ball production. Couldn't get on the field for
Speaker 1: the Chargers all season, But you're scouting report on him
Speaker 1: what you saw, why maybe it played out that way
Speaker 1: as opposed to him on seating, Nozadlie for that starting
Speaker 1: high safety spot. Safety is a position that you know
Speaker 1: you need repsent you're it's a very visually driven position.
Speaker 1: You need to see the NFL game first. You know,
Speaker 1: there's a rare to see guys like Derwin James who
Speaker 1: year one at safety are impact players. So it's it's
Speaker 1: difficult from that perspective the transition, and especially for him
Speaker 1: because he's a pure free safety. He's not you know,
Speaker 1: a slot. He was in a box guy. He was
Speaker 1: a range over the top from either single high, too high,
Speaker 1: whatever you want. He is going to be that guy
Speaker 1: that can make quarterbacks pay for trying to bite off
Speaker 1: a little more. They could chew on some go ball,
Speaker 1: some vertical routes on the outside. So that is his role.
Speaker 1: That's also kind of what what Nazi Adelie brought the
Speaker 1: table like. He was a very similar player. So this
Speaker 1: was your transition plan obvious. Now with Adlie retiring, it's
Speaker 1: him and I think you're going to see him excel
Speaker 1: in that same role as that pure deep guy. All right,
Speaker 1: let's do one more here. Let's see what's on the
Speaker 1: board mock draft simulator and her draft and we're going
Speaker 1: to start it. And on the board right now, Old
Speaker 1: Cancy's on the board. Kin Kaid is on the board
Speaker 1: as well. So you got both of those guys. Mayor
Speaker 1: Addison's a flowers. This is just just kind of given
Speaker 1: him one out. It's it's played out, you know, it's
Speaker 1: played out differently. Um So Cancy made it to him,
Speaker 1: but so did Dalton Kinkaid. So that's your there you go,
Speaker 1: what are you doing? That one's tough? Oh man, that
Speaker 1: one is tough because they're both unique in their own right.
Speaker 1: They're both guys that are you know, not every year
Speaker 1: kind of prospects that I would say is that you
Speaker 1: and usually those guys tend to go high because if
Speaker 1: you if rarity is a skill set that again, if
Speaker 1: you want that, if you want pure speed at the
Speaker 1: three technique position, you will not find someone with as
Speaker 1: much as quash cancer. So in those that scenario, man,
Speaker 1: I think I still mean, given Herbert as many weapons
Speaker 1: as possible, it's an arms race in the NFL. No
Speaker 1: one really get. You have to compete in the AFC
Speaker 1: with Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow. You have to
Speaker 1: put up over thirty points a game and probably three
Speaker 1: straight playoff games to win Super Bowl. That's just a
Speaker 1: fact of life, um in that conference nowadays. And so
Speaker 1: how am I going to do that? Well, I'm going
Speaker 1: to fool proof justin Herbert in this offense and then
Speaker 1: let brand Staley handle his side of the ball at
Speaker 1: least with my top draft picks, because that's what he
Speaker 1: gets paid for, and Herbert gets paid for. You made, Hey,
Speaker 1: you made an officially now this is an officially a
Speaker 1: Dalton Kincaid podcast. This is it. I mean every week
Speaker 1: this guy's name comes up money, that's right. Appreciate you, Mike,
Speaker 1: before you go, we got draft hits watching this into this.
Speaker 1: Where can they get your stuff and what's the best
Speaker 1: way to consume it? Yeah, you can go obviously find
Speaker 1: the PF Draft Guide ONPF dot com. All my takes
Speaker 1: are in there. The final version releases next Monday. I
Speaker 1: believe I'm still working on it. I'm going to get
Speaker 1: to work on it right after this, and then you
Speaker 1: follow me on Twitter at pfunderscore My so a lot
Speaker 1: of good stuff coming out in the next month. You're
Speaker 1: the best, dude. We always appreciate this time of month
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Speaker 1: All right, when you got the simulator up, always good
Speaker 1: talking to Mike. Were you happy with the results? Kincaid, Yeah,
Speaker 1: thanks super like. I can't recommend it enough. Just hit
Speaker 1: upf dot com, click on mock draft simulator, you click
Speaker 1: on the Chargers. Throw that thing on turbo and it'll
Speaker 1: put you through the different scenarios and if you look,
Speaker 1: you'll be able to see how the draft lays out. Oh,
Speaker 1: how many quarterbacks went ahead of them? Sometimes it is five,
Speaker 1: sometimes it's four, sometimes it's three and Levis falls out.
Speaker 1: So it gives you the idea and it reminds you
Speaker 1: that anything can happen. That Derwin James can slip to
Speaker 1: the Chargers at seventeen because the Saints decided to trade
Speaker 1: up and you thought they were going to and the
Speaker 1: Bills end up taking Edmonds instead of Durwin when you
Speaker 1: thought they were going to take Derwin. Like, there's so
Speaker 1: many weird things that happened through the course of a draft,
Speaker 1: but I was happy to hear Mike echo our sentiments
Speaker 1: from a couple of weeks ago, and that is how
Speaker 1: many first round grades do you have? Justin Herbert's getting
Speaker 1: a fifty million dollar contract, fifty million dollar year contract.
Speaker 1: There's somewhere that's. Sorry to spend all your money, mister Spannels,
Speaker 1: but it's going to be somewhere in that range. It's
Speaker 1: just you gotta add young talent. You've got to just
Speaker 1: increase your depth by a pretty chunky percentage because of
Speaker 1: that contract now being a reality moving forward. And I
Speaker 1: do think there's a chance Bucky's latest draft has Levis sliding.
Speaker 1: That Hooker has now kind of taken that spot and
Speaker 1: Levis has gone on a slide. So the hope is
Speaker 1: that one of those quarterbacks is there at twenty one
Speaker 1: and in order to jump ahead of the Vikings as
Speaker 1: we talked about. Yeah, and that's sort of and I
Speaker 1: know it's it's so there's I'm not going to name names,
Speaker 1: but there's a head coach that had an incredible amount
Speaker 1: of power in a franchise and would routinely select their
Speaker 1: first rounder and then just disappear because he didn't have
Speaker 1: the patience to do the work that you need to do.
Speaker 1: But he was invested enough to say this is the
Speaker 1: guy I want with our first round pick. Pretty Much
Speaker 1: all those first round picks were busts, and neither person
Speaker 1: is with the franchise any longer. I think I know,
Speaker 1: I think I know who you're referring to. I bring
Speaker 1: up that point because so many fans are like that.
Speaker 1: They only know the first round. They only know Kincaid
Speaker 1: or Jordan Addison or Zay Flowers or Nolan Smith or
Speaker 1: Elijah Kanzi or Wilson or you know, Breece or Van Ness,
Speaker 1: and when the chargers trade out, they're like, we really,
Speaker 1: we're not going to get an impact. There are starters
Speaker 1: in the second round. That's where you get your starters,
Speaker 1: second and third round. So to pick up an extra two,
Speaker 1: potentially pick up a one next year, maybe pick up
Speaker 1: a two and a three two and when you're obviously
Speaker 1: gonna get at least two in of three for trading
Speaker 1: out of the first round, but it could be more
Speaker 1: than that. Those are starters. You expect those to be starters.
Speaker 1: So Sante Samuel Drew Tranquil nazatterly like, that's you know,
Speaker 1: Jamari Sawyer's an outlier. Yeah, but you know what we're
Speaker 1: getting at here. It's Keenan Allen, you know, third rounder, Like,
Speaker 1: that's what we're talking about. Trey Pipkins these so I
Speaker 1: was happy to hear him concur with us that that's,
Speaker 1: you know, ideal, this is ideal. You're able to trade
Speaker 1: back and get really good value for number twenty one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and just look at free agency. They're gonna need starters
Speaker 1: coming out of this draft, and they're gonna need to
Speaker 1: maybe pick up some picks in that second or third
Speaker 1: round in order to get those guys. And you know,
Speaker 1: if you stay there and you get King Kaid, that's great.
Speaker 1: I also I really like his thought out, uh philosophy
Speaker 1: on the running back position, and I'm with him in
Speaker 1: terms of, hey, don't don't let h anybody else but
Speaker 1: number ten touch the ball. I get that, But I
Speaker 1: just you know, that Jacksonville game sticks in my mind.
Speaker 1: Second half not be able to run the football, and
Speaker 1: I know Robinson could do it, you know. Um, So
Speaker 1: that's that's kind of where I get a little bit
Speaker 1: conflicted about. You know, you want to make this a
Speaker 1: complete football team that can win games in January, and
Speaker 1: I think having a guy like a Bijean Robinson or
Speaker 1: or a player of his caliber to compliment Austin hopefully
Speaker 1: Austin's still here, um would be a good thing. It
Speaker 1: might be a better defense than the defense, no doubt.
Speaker 1: It's kind of the best way to look at it.
Speaker 1: Put it. If we can pick up a couple first
Speaker 1: downs and sustain a drive for four or five minutes
Speaker 1: like they did in the Miami game, that's that may
Speaker 1: be better than the defense they have. So that's where
Speaker 1: the whole bijon part comes in. We're not saying he's
Speaker 1: got to you've got to build your offense around bi
Speaker 1: Sean Robinson. What we're saying is, when you need to
Speaker 1: press that button, let's go press that button. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: and the other thing is too, it's it's not it's
Speaker 1: not a centerpiece. Look at it as a complimentary piece.
Speaker 1: Now you start with design runs that are ripping off
Speaker 1: five and seven and nine yards, and guess what happens
Speaker 1: to the play action game, And guess what happens to
Speaker 1: your shot place. They're finally going to be open because
Speaker 1: they weren't open last year because nobody thought they were
Speaker 1: running for more than three yards to carry if even that,
Speaker 1: and typically if they did, it was Austin Ackler breaking
Speaker 1: a tackle in the backfield in order to get those
Speaker 1: three yards. Yeah, and there may be a game where
Speaker 1: you need your running game to carry you. You know,
Speaker 1: it's those games happen in the NFL where you've got
Speaker 1: a game plan a different way for a different opponent. So,
Speaker 1: but Mike's awesome. Appreciate his time as always. I want
Speaker 1: to spend a few minutes on just these owners meetings
Speaker 1: and your takeaways from that. Obviously, I think the non
Speaker 1: breaking breaking news is that the Chargers and Justin Herbert
Speaker 1: there was report that they're they're talking, and I think
Speaker 1: we expected that, right What else is doing That deal
Speaker 1: is getting done this offseason? When it's getting done, don't know,
Speaker 1: but it's getting done. There's you know, is it before Burrow?
Speaker 1: Is it before Lamar's trade? Is it after? Is it
Speaker 1: Jalen Hurts that gets the deal done first? Whatever it is,
Speaker 1: it's going to be a gigantic number and it's going
Speaker 1: to get done and it's going to have to change
Speaker 1: the way the roster is constructed. So it's not surprising,
Speaker 1: I would hope, you know, if that's not news, news
Speaker 1: is we tried to reach out to Justin but as
Speaker 1: people aren't talking to us, that's news and you gotta concern.
Speaker 1: So great great to hear that they are talking. There
Speaker 1: was a nugget I think Eric Smith tweeted out that, uh,
Speaker 1: the Zion's gonna move the left guard and it's Sawyer
Speaker 1: who's going to go to right. So that was Tom's
Speaker 1: pressor from Thomas press pressor. He mentioned it could have
Speaker 1: been Brandon as well. I thought it was from Tom's though.
Speaker 1: I think that he mentioned remember when Zion came out,
Speaker 1: he was a left guard, and that's why there was
Speaker 1: some speculation that Filer was going to get kicked to
Speaker 1: right tackle, that you were going to put Zion at
Speaker 1: left guard and then they were going to try to
Speaker 1: figure out the right guard position before it became this
Speaker 1: Pipkins battle with Storm Norton kind of thing. So I thought,
Speaker 1: you know, Zion played well last year, certainly, but if
Speaker 1: they feel like like I'm on the left better and
Speaker 1: I think part of that is recreating that dominant side
Speaker 1: of the line that you can run behind, just a
Speaker 1: road grading because of what a great run blocker Rashaan
Speaker 1: Slater is. Let's just create sheered dominance on that side
Speaker 1: of the ball where if we need it, we can
Speaker 1: go get it now. I thought Trey and Zion worked
Speaker 1: well together. That was the better side to run to
Speaker 1: last year than Sawyer. So that's that's I guess is
Speaker 1: let's just even though Trey improved and did pretty darn
Speaker 1: well as a run blocker, I think that Sawyer is
Speaker 1: going to excel as a guard because we saw when
Speaker 1: he did get beat it was on speed. Because once
Speaker 1: he gets his hands on you, he tends to dominate.
Speaker 1: So he should excel as a guard. But put Zion
Speaker 1: back at his natural position where he played his entire
Speaker 1: college career, took every single snap, and let's create a
Speaker 1: wall specifically in the run game and on Herbert's blindside.
Speaker 1: I love outside of the line Slater, Zion Lindsley, I
Speaker 1: love it. I love it. And you know you have
Speaker 1: saw You're on the right side. He has that positional
Speaker 1: flexibility to kick out the right if anything should happen.
Speaker 1: So I think the offensive line from a starter perspective,
Speaker 1: is in good shape. I mentioned this when we talked
Speaker 1: to Mike DeAndre Carter leaving I think is a blow.
Speaker 1: You know, this guy was second in the NFL in
Speaker 1: punt return average, and we know what special teams means
Speaker 1: to this team now with Ryan Ficken, and they have
Speaker 1: improved so much. Obviously, I know that they're going to
Speaker 1: find a replacement. They probably have a replacement in mind,
Speaker 1: money that you and I don't know about. But I
Speaker 1: just you know, you don't want to take a step back,
Speaker 1: especially at a guy that really helped you kind of
Speaker 1: flip the field and now he goes to a arrival.
Speaker 1: I believe it was Tom tolesco set it to us
Speaker 1: on or it was either Coach Staley or it was
Speaker 1: Tom that set it to us. One pregame when we
Speaker 1: brought up how well DeAndre had been playing, specifically in
Speaker 1: his punt return role, and he said, he gets us
Speaker 1: a first down. It's the best way to look at it.
Speaker 1: Every single time he catches upon and returns it, he
Speaker 1: gets us a first down. His return average was twelve yards.
Speaker 1: So that's a huge deal. You've already got your first
Speaker 1: first down as your drive starter because he's picked it
Speaker 1: up for you. It just goes to show you how
Speaker 1: because of all the money that's moved around, the lack
Speaker 1: of action and free agency, it goes to show you
Speaker 1: how much the quarterback contracts impact X a team that
Speaker 1: you can't bring DeAndre Carter back at a million and
Speaker 1: a half dollar raise, from what he was making last year.
Speaker 1: I'll say this into you know, for those that are
Speaker 1: upset that DeAndre Carter is gone, He's been on a
Speaker 1: new team almost every year. So as good as he is,
Speaker 1: if you're dominant, if you're Devin Hester, if you're Tamarick Vanover,
Speaker 1: if you're you know, if you're one of those guys,
Speaker 1: you're not going to leave. So they feel like we
Speaker 1: can replace that, well, we'll be able to find someone.
Speaker 1: Like you said that, we can replace that. More often
Speaker 1: than not, your returners come from the draft. They're secondary players,
Speaker 1: they're special teamers. You don't want to have starters in
Speaker 1: the return game because of the propensity for them to
Speaker 1: get injured. We saw that last year in the playoff
Speaker 1: game with DeAndre Carter getting injured and now you got
Speaker 1: Michael Bandy out there for fifty snaps. Yeah, and that
Speaker 1: was a plan was the plan was not to have DeAndre.
Speaker 1: He was a fifth receiver coming into camp anyway, so
Speaker 1: like the plan wasn't really to use him one offense.
Speaker 1: He had to catch forty six balls, had his best
Speaker 1: offensive season because of all the injuries. I thought he
Speaker 1: had a season worthy of sticking around for that second year.
Speaker 1: But you're right, that's this is the business. And when
Speaker 1: you have to pay your quarterback a ton of money
Speaker 1: and you have to allocate resources to other positions. This
Speaker 1: is why it's so hard to build a complete team
Speaker 1: in the NFL these days, especially when you have that
Speaker 1: paycheck come into your quarterback, and returners aren't as impactful
Speaker 1: as they used to be. More, more and more teams
Speaker 1: want that ball kicked out of the back of the
Speaker 1: end zone on kick returns. They're comfortable with it return
Speaker 1: more than kick return and punt returns. You've got so
Speaker 1: many more punters that are better than we've ever seen.
Speaker 1: It's almost all fair catches. You've got your big leg
Speaker 1: guys that just want to kick the hell out of
Speaker 1: the ball and they'll they'll hope their gross is somewhere
Speaker 1: around fifty plus. You know, in that high forty fifty range,
Speaker 1: the return is somewhere around seven to eight, and you
Speaker 1: still end up with your forty to forty three nets.
Speaker 1: As he leads, there are a handful of those, and
Speaker 1: you hope you can spring him. I'm content with allocating
Speaker 1: resources elsewhere. I'm totally fine with that. Finding something now
Speaker 1: we saw it, We've seen it cost the Chargers games.
Speaker 1: We have seen bad returners cost the chart literally cost
Speaker 1: the Chargers games. Because I'm thinking of the game in
Speaker 1: New England and I again keep forgetting his name. But
Speaker 1: when balls inside the five returner fields it, all he
Speaker 1: has to do is move his right foot outside and
Speaker 1: step on the sideline and it gets on a kickoff
Speaker 1: and it ends up at the forty instead he catches
Speaker 1: it there. It gets absolutely blown up. It like the
Speaker 1: eight and everything which to New England game. It was
Speaker 1: a long time. It was when Rivers was still the quarterback.
Speaker 1: It was Benjamin. Is it Travis Benjamin. We had the
Speaker 1: Travis Benjamin punt return when he went backwards. Yeah, with
Speaker 1: another one. So like there's a lot of those instances
Speaker 1: where we've talked, you know, two years ago, Oakland or Oakland,
Speaker 1: Las Vegas final week, you know fumble on. So yes,
Speaker 1: it does matter. You do need someone back there, but
Speaker 1: you can find him. Yeah, anything else from Arizona that
Speaker 1: stood out league wide or charges related? Obviously there's a
Speaker 1: lot going on with the Commanders and well I think
Speaker 1: the Eckler stuff is furthered a little bit. Yeah, both
Speaker 1: sides are saying the same thing, which is Tom said,
Speaker 1: we respect the heck out of Austin. We owed it
Speaker 1: to him to be able to go out there and
Speaker 1: see if he could find anything to better his individual situation,
Speaker 1: and we would accommodate that. You've got Austin we talked
Speaker 1: about already, the things he said that he's going to
Speaker 1: pursue aggressively a deal that he feels compensates him more
Speaker 1: fairly not going to find it. Mike Renner said it.
Speaker 1: I am completely against giving free agent, big money free
Speaker 1: agent deals to running backs. So it looks like those
Speaker 1: two are are headed to stick together. Eckler appears to
Speaker 1: be on the Chargers this upcoming season that they'll figure
Speaker 1: something out and that they'll work it out. So outside
Speaker 1: of that, it feels like those were the big Those
Speaker 1: were the big questions. What's going on with Eckler moving
Speaker 1: Scion to the left side and the fact that they're
Speaker 1: talking to Herbert and that's why all these moves look
Speaker 1: the way they look, And the Chargers are getting the
Speaker 1: free agent grades that they're getting for not doing a
Speaker 1: whole lot. Yeah, which makes what you said last week
Speaker 1: even more enticing to trade out of twenty one and
Speaker 1: get more picks. And find more starters. You're gonna have
Speaker 1: to do it, and they've got to both sides of
Speaker 1: the lines. Look at Philadelphia, they load up on old linemen,
Speaker 1: they load up on the lineman, and that's how they win.
Speaker 1: And that's how they made it into the postseason two
Speaker 1: years ago with Jalen Hurts who wasn't playing great at quarterback,
Speaker 1: three years ago or four years ago, whatever it was,
Speaker 1: when they had no wide receivers and a banged up quarterback,
Speaker 1: they still made it because they were so dominant on
Speaker 1: the lines. To me, the Chargers really need to invest
Speaker 1: resources at those two position groups. Continue to build the
Speaker 1: offensive line. If you swing and miss, you swing and miss.
Speaker 1: If it's Dan Feenie, Hopefully brain himis comes around this year.
Speaker 1: Trey Pickins took three years, but they got it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So you just have to keep investing Forrest Lamp, keep investing,
Speaker 1: keep investing in that position group, keep investing in defensive lineman.
Speaker 1: Hopefully Tito Obonia comes back sooner than later, because he
Speaker 1: looked great when he started getting more and more reps
Speaker 1: and got into the rotation. So to me, those are
Speaker 1: that's the that to me is the biggest push for
Speaker 1: trading out is let's we gotta start building depth along
Speaker 1: those along the lines if you're going to be able
Speaker 1: to compete, because guys get hurt at those two position
Speaker 1: groups pretty regularly, and you better have capable depth so
Speaker 1: you don't lose your season and money. It's I think
Speaker 1: it's a type of player that you're targeting in those
Speaker 1: mid to late rounds. Like you mentioned it to Rent
Speaker 1: or about Jamari Sawyer. I mean that guy was seasoned
Speaker 1: in the SEC, whereas you know Trey Pipkins. When they
Speaker 1: drafted Trey Pipkins, they knew he wasn't gonna be ready
Speaker 1: for a few years. Like it's it's war, so, okay,
Speaker 1: can we draft guys that we think can make an
Speaker 1: impact and actually start some games earlier in their career,
Speaker 1: Whereas you know Trey Pipkins and some other guys were, Okay,
Speaker 1: this guy's a project, may not be ready for a
Speaker 1: couple of years. I think the position that the Chargers
Speaker 1: are in, depending on how many picks they can get
Speaker 1: in the second, third and later rounds, is maybe trying
Speaker 1: to identify some of those guys that can play meaningful
Speaker 1: snaps for you this year, right as opposed to saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: well this guy will be ready in two or three years.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that the Chargers want to invest in
Speaker 1: a ton of those types of players. Well, you're talking,
Speaker 1: you're you basically just described the great draft conundrum, traits
Speaker 1: versus production. What are we going to value? Are we
Speaker 1: gonna value traits? Are we gonna value production? Here's someone,
Speaker 1: Jamari Sawyer, does not have the traits. He's got short arms,
Speaker 1: he's not that tall, he's not built like a tackle,
Speaker 1: he's not super athletic. But okay, production played at Georgia
Speaker 1: started inside outside flexibility, kicked inside when Alabama was dominating
Speaker 1: on the interior, kicked outside whenever anybody was dominating at
Speaker 1: the edge. Was productive, but there were very little traits.
Speaker 1: So that's that's what happens when you get into the draft.
Speaker 1: That's Look, that's why Justin Herbert fell to the Chargers
Speaker 1: at six. Had every trait you could possibly want, size, athleticism,
Speaker 1: the brain, freaking hose. But he was in an offense
Speaker 1: that was not productive. Played in a Rose Bowl where
Speaker 1: he basically ran his tail off as opposed to throw
Speaker 1: the ball all over the place in order to get
Speaker 1: a win. So that's how you end up getting a
Speaker 1: guy like that at number six? And and what did
Speaker 1: two a half two had? The production, didn't have the traits,
Speaker 1: was injured, busted up hip, not as athletic, not tall, not,
Speaker 1: doesn't have the biggest arm, but he had the production.
Speaker 1: So that's that's the draft in a nutshell, what do
Speaker 1: you want? Do you want the traits? You want the production?
Speaker 1: When you pair the two together, that's when you get
Speaker 1: a first rounder. That's when you get Dalton Kincade. That's
Speaker 1: when you get Jalen Carter. That's when you get Will Anderson.
Speaker 1: That's traits plus production. That's what we're talking about. By
Speaker 1: the way, this is the time of year or two
Speaker 1: where people will resurface old tweets about prospects, and the
Speaker 1: amount of stuff that we saw Justin Herbert before the
Speaker 1: Chargers drafted him was insane, just like, this guy's got
Speaker 1: no chance. And I wouldn't. I would never watch Justin
Speaker 1: Herbert on my team. And this is what this is
Speaker 1: all about, man, Because I was skeptical of him. I
Speaker 1: watched a ton of Pack twelve football. I watched a
Speaker 1: lot of Justin Herbert, and I was like, man, this guy,
Speaker 1: you know there wasn't the production you were projecting what
Speaker 1: justin you had. And God loved Tom Tolesco and his
Speaker 1: team and Joejoe and every everybody for doing that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because when when he was at Oregon, it just wasn't there.
Speaker 1: The offense was super, super conservative, and he was you
Speaker 1: could tell that he was coached to not turn the
Speaker 1: ball over and he aimed a lot of his throws
Speaker 1: and he played very conservatively. So I think, look, this
Speaker 1: is the time of year and and it's fine. I'm
Speaker 1: the one that ran my mouth. You know. My my
Speaker 1: video comes up all the time on Check's podcast about
Speaker 1: Patrick Mahomes asking why if you're the Chiefs and you
Speaker 1: just won the division, are you drafting a guy that's
Speaker 1: got no footwork? That's that's everything is off platform, everything
Speaker 1: is when the play is broken down, Well, you pair
Speaker 1: him with Andy Reid and you let him sit for
Speaker 1: a year. And yeah, they have they had that vision
Speaker 1: that I did not. I was talking about it. And
Speaker 1: that's the that when you have someone like Joel Klatt
Speaker 1: that made the type of declarative statement he did on Herbert. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's because he watched so much college football. That's the
Speaker 1: funny thing. Is the people that have those takes and
Speaker 1: those positions are the ones that watch a hundred times
Speaker 1: more snaps than the people that are criticizing them for
Speaker 1: their opinion. They just watch too much. They watched too
Speaker 1: much football, developed an opinion based on what they saw
Speaker 1: and what their brain was telling them they saw, as
Speaker 1: opposed to having the vision of okay, six six two
Speaker 1: forty valid heisman, you know, academic heisman, you know, giant arm. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can see where this Herbert thing could go. Instead.
Speaker 1: It's while I watched all of his games at Oregon
Speaker 1: and he's very soft spoken, and you know, all of
Speaker 1: those things. You have too much information. It's hard, it is,
Speaker 1: It is very hard. The one thing I will tell
Speaker 1: you I learned about, you know, running my mouth on
Speaker 1: Mahomes is don't do it. Just just couch things a
Speaker 1: little bit better, you know, just say wow. You know what.
Speaker 1: Kudos to the chiefs. They certainly see things that you
Speaker 1: didn't see on the tape, and they feel like that
Speaker 1: raw talent they're going to be able to, you know,
Speaker 1: to to rein that in and make him as effective
Speaker 1: inside the pocket as he is outside. Because look, the
Speaker 1: Mahome sizzle real was incredible from Texas Tech. It was ridiculous.
Speaker 1: But that's what the whole that's that's his entire college career.
Speaker 1: You know, he finished colleague and it's like, name the
Speaker 1: Texas Tech quarterback that ever had an impact in the league.
Speaker 1: There wasn't one though, it never happened that often. Hail. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was like, you can't draft someone from that. And
Speaker 1: that's why it's so stupid to say something like, well
Speaker 1: you can't take CJ. Stroud from Ohio State. Name in
Speaker 1: Ohio state quarterback that's you know, been effective in the
Speaker 1: the NFL. Well yeah, look at Texas Tech. It was
Speaker 1: people would just swear that thing off, like no way,
Speaker 1: no way, that's a gimmick offense and want nothing. That's
Speaker 1: the Quintin m Quentin Johnson thing is you watch that
Speaker 1: TCU tape. The guy's wide open all the time. He
Speaker 1: is wide stinking open. When you pull up his touchdowns.
Speaker 1: If you go to the PFF and you plup is
Speaker 1: touchdown real, there's not a corner around him. There's nobody
Speaker 1: around him. So it's like, Okay, well, I don't know
Speaker 1: how do I interpret this? What am I doing? What? What?
Speaker 1: What am I? What? Am I going to do with them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: as as people watch our podcast and all these draft
Speaker 1: uh pods and articles, everyone knows that nobody knows anything
Speaker 1: right and and anybody can there's a lot of people
Speaker 1: that know a lot more than we do, that's for sure.
Speaker 1: Well that's try, that's what and and money. Even those
Speaker 1: guys will have terrible takes that will be brought up
Speaker 1: down the line. And you know, everybody misses in the draft.
Speaker 1: That's why it's so hard. That's why the drafts. You're like, wow,
Speaker 1: it's so different. The NFL is a completely different sport
Speaker 1: than college football. That that's that's the thing. Now, Look,
Speaker 1: I think that you're never going to post them hitting
Speaker 1: it on the head. That just doesn't happen. It's freezing
Speaker 1: cold takes. There's no you know, flame and hot takes
Speaker 1: that people want to retweet a million times. When you
Speaker 1: hear somebody get it right, they enjoy. So they want
Speaker 1: to celebrate your failures. That's why Petrol's you know and
Speaker 1: I do the show that we do because people want
Speaker 1: to hear about what idiots we are and how much
Speaker 1: we fail at life. And it makes them feel good
Speaker 1: and that's great, and that's that's the draft, you're going
Speaker 1: to miss more than you hit, especially when you're in
Speaker 1: the fourth round and you're taking the one hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty third player off the board, you know, and there's
Speaker 1: been one hundred and fifty guys that have gone ahead
Speaker 1: of them. Yeah, you're probably gonna have a tough time
Speaker 1: hitting a home run on that one. Yeah, it's playing
Speaker 1: quarterback in the NFL is considerably different than playing quarterback
Speaker 1: in college. So it's it's not a general managers make
Speaker 1: a lot of money. Make a lot of money for
Speaker 1: a reason, because it is not an easy gig. Speaking
Speaker 1: of home runs, are you go into Opening Night tonight?
Speaker 1: He'd be out there. I will be, I will be.
Speaker 1: I hate the sound of it. Should be Opening day.
Speaker 1: I should not be here doing this right now. I
Speaker 1: should be. It's like the first time, it like with
Speaker 1: fifteen years that they've done this at night. Why, it's
Speaker 1: a huge It's a huge season for Major League Baseball,
Speaker 1: and I think they want that premier team in that
Speaker 1: primetime West Coast primetime window. Having the Dodgers play at
Speaker 1: noon as opposed to seven deprives the league from its
Speaker 1: West Coast crown jewel, and that's what it's all TV.
Speaker 1: So when you had this is this is going to
Speaker 1: go down as a seminal year in baseball. If things
Speaker 1: have changed, are going to change moving forward. They're going
Speaker 1: to talk about this year as the year that the
Speaker 1: game changed. Pitch clock is changing. You know, we're going
Speaker 1: to have games because we're the Dodger station where I
Speaker 1: do the radio show. We had minor league games. We
Speaker 1: had a Clayton Kershaw minor league game that went two
Speaker 1: hours that and it wasn't it wasn't a weird game.
Speaker 1: That was just Kershaw dominated. And you look up and
Speaker 1: you're like, holy crap, we're in the ninth inning and
Speaker 1: this game has been on for an hour and fifty
Speaker 1: eight minutes. It was crazy. So that's going to change.
Speaker 1: You're gonna have more offense, You're gonna have a return
Speaker 1: to the athlete, and more stolen bases. So to me,
Speaker 1: today's a huge day for Major League Baseball. They they
Speaker 1: really want to roll out and say we got something,
Speaker 1: we got some sizzle here, we got something going. You're
Speaker 1: gonna really like what we've done with this sport this
Speaker 1: year after years of being a punching bag and three
Speaker 1: and a half and four hour games where there's guys
Speaker 1: standing around picking their tails, taking four minutes to get
Speaker 1: through one at bat. So I think they're excited and
Speaker 1: they wanted the Dodgers. That's a very long way of
Speaker 1: answering your question. That's that's why we got Opening Night
Speaker 1: because they want that prime time West Coast. Hey, look
Speaker 1: what we're doing and watch. Watch what a Dodgers game
Speaker 1: looks like. Now, you're not going to bed at ten
Speaker 1: forty five at the end of the ninth inning. You're
Speaker 1: going to bed. You're you're done at nine thirty, and
Speaker 1: we're rolling out of here. I love this time of
Speaker 1: year because we got the draft in the air. You
Speaker 1: got Opening Day Baseball twenty eight days away from the
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three NFL Draft, And each week we'll get
Speaker 1: a guest on we'll answer your questions. It'll be very
Speaker 1: draft heavy in April. Money. This was great. Appreciate Mike
Speaker 1: Renner joining us for money. I'm Chris. This has been
Speaker 1: Chargers Weekly. We'll see you next week, all right, guys.
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