Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Fantasy Pros Dynasty Fantasy Football Podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Scott Bogmin. Follow me on the Twitter
Speaker 1: at Bogman Sports. I'm joined as always by Pat Fitzmorris
Speaker 1: at FITS Underscore ff on the Twitter Machine FITSI.
Speaker 2: It's the Hater episode we got.
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about fifteen players that we would like
Speaker 1: to avoid in your dynasty drafts, maybe trade them off
Speaker 1: if you have already done your draft. Do you enjoyed
Speaker 1: this one or do you enjoy the positivity more?
Speaker 2: What do you think?
Speaker 3: Oh? I love this one, Bogs. I'm full of rage.
Speaker 3: I've been drinking extra coffee this morning. I'm ready to
Speaker 3: just tear some guys to shreds. No, I mean, like
Speaker 3: it's not necessarily guys we hate and think are all trash,
Speaker 3: you know, But like we're also not just going to
Speaker 3: tell you the obvious things we're not going to give you,
Speaker 3: you know, sell Allen Robinson, Like you don't need to
Speaker 3: hear that. We're gonna like these are guys that some
Speaker 3: people might like in dynasty less. Yeah, this is this
Speaker 3: is more us throwing cold water on some people's hopes
Speaker 3: and dreams.
Speaker 1: Right exactly, So you know. I mean, look, I've got
Speaker 1: a Sooner in here to start with. So I know
Speaker 1: everyone is gonna say all the Texas guy not liking
Speaker 1: the Sooner, but.
Speaker 2: It is a guy that I've stuck my neck out
Speaker 2: before here.
Speaker 3: Fits is this gonna be all Sooners and Aggies and
Speaker 3: Baltimore Ravens for you? Like all the guys?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually do have a couple of Ravens, but
Speaker 1: but uh yeah, yeah I don't. I don't know, Oh
Speaker 1: I do have No, I don't have any Aggies. I
Speaker 1: don't think, so I'd have to double check my list here.
Speaker 1: But let's start. Let's start at the quarterback position and
Speaker 1: get into the Sooner that I'm going to say that
Speaker 1: maybe you should avoid, maybe look to trade. And it's
Speaker 1: funny I'm saying this fits even though I am higher
Speaker 1: than ECR four dynasty on him. It's just Kyler Murray
Speaker 1: to me is a guy that I feel like you
Speaker 1: can move on from, and in super flex leagues, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be tough that he obviously provides a lot of
Speaker 1: rushing upside, the Cliff Kingsbury offense was great, you know,
Speaker 1: very open, very throw heavy, all that stuff for him,
Speaker 1: spread it out so he has more lanes to run.
Speaker 1: But a couple of things happened here. Number one, we
Speaker 1: heard the questionable stuff about his work ethic, right, like
Speaker 1: sure everyone now makes the call of duty jokes and
Speaker 1: all that stuff, But I mean that's a little weird.
Speaker 1: So that was like kind of hint number one to
Speaker 1: me that maybe Kyler Murray was going on a downhill track.
Speaker 1: Then he of course injured his knee. He's coming off
Speaker 1: ACL surgery in this offseason. I know that, you know,
Speaker 1: they want him to be ready for week one, but
Speaker 1: that is a tall task for him to you know,
Speaker 1: live up to to be back immediately. I don't think
Speaker 1: he's gonna be back week one. I think you have
Speaker 1: expressed your concerns about that as well. Two fits and
Speaker 1: the strike for me is that this offense should slow down.
Speaker 1: You have Gannon coming over from Philly, a defensive coordinator
Speaker 1: who is probably going to want to slow that offense
Speaker 1: down a little bit, run the ball a little bit more,
Speaker 1: especially with a horrid defense. I mean, the Cardinals in
Speaker 1: the Rams are gonna have some bad defense in the
Speaker 1: West this year for the NFC, and you know you
Speaker 1: want to keep your bad defense on the sideline and
Speaker 1: gassed up, So you slog a little bit on offense,
Speaker 1: you let the play clock run down, you run the
Speaker 1: ball a little bit more. Plus coming off a knee surgery,
Speaker 1: I think that rushing upside for this season is going
Speaker 1: to be at least significantly lowered. If not, you know,
Speaker 1: just gone out right.
Speaker 2: So you know.
Speaker 1: Also, Kyler Murray has a baseball career to fall back on,
Speaker 1: and he's only twenty seven. So if he decides that
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to do this and he doesn't want
Speaker 1: to work as hard as you have do to be
Speaker 1: a quarterback in the NFL, he could go start his
Speaker 1: career Tim Tebow style in baseball. So there's just too
Speaker 1: many outs for Kyler Murray for me to really trust
Speaker 1: him moving forward from this point. Great talent I worked
Speaker 1: with Cliff Kingsbury. I just I'm afraid of him kind
Speaker 1: of sinking like a stone. What do you think of
Speaker 1: Kyler Murray?
Speaker 2: FITZI?
Speaker 3: So it's interesting, Boggs. I mean, I do think his
Speaker 3: career is sort of at a crossroads right now, and
Speaker 3: like you, I'm very pessimistic that he is back in
Speaker 3: time for Week one. I mean, he tore his acl
Speaker 3: I believe it was Week fourteen, so that would be
Speaker 3: a pretty aggressive timeline to get him back. Plus, I
Speaker 3: don't think the Cardinals have any aspirations of going to
Speaker 3: the super Bowl this year, you know, so like there's
Speaker 3: really gonna be.
Speaker 2: No need to rush.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if they do indeed view him as their you know,
Speaker 3: quarterback of the future, and like they've now made a
Speaker 3: commitment to him, it looks like he's going to be
Speaker 3: there's really no need to bring him back aggressively this
Speaker 3: year because this is a building team, like what they
Speaker 3: did in the draft to maybe set the you know,
Speaker 3: set themselves up for the future, but clearly they're not
Speaker 3: in it to win it this year.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: But where I'm going to push back on you a bit, Bogs, Well,
Speaker 3: first of all, on the on the bad defense thing.
Speaker 3: I mean, like maybe you want to run the ball,
Speaker 3: but like we know that's not going to be possible.
Speaker 3: They're just the game. Yeah, the game scripts are just
Speaker 3: not going to be favorable. And if anything, that could
Speaker 3: maybe fuel some like big spike games for Kyler. And
Speaker 3: I mean, speaking of spike games, Bogs, this dude's had
Speaker 3: a lot of them, I mean, and I've I've like
Speaker 3: my most important dynasty league. We did the startup in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty and I got Kyler. I think Kyler was
Speaker 3: my first round pick. Like he's been really good, man.
Speaker 3: He's when he's been healthy, he is piled on the points.
Speaker 3: And there were even these games last season where he
Speaker 3: would be like slogging along at halftime. He'd be like
Speaker 3: five to eleven pass five to eleven, passing for like
Speaker 3: sixty two yards, barely anything on the ground. You're like, oh, man,
Speaker 3: Kyler is just having a rough week. And then all
Speaker 3: of a sudden you turn around and he's got like
Speaker 3: twenty three fantasy points. Like these big second halfs like
Speaker 3: this dude can really pile up the points in a hurry.
Speaker 3: Like now, is he the equal? Is he as good
Speaker 3: a real life quarterback as fantasy quarterback? Maybe not? And
Speaker 3: I know, you know, like my good friend's brother in
Speaker 3: law is a Cardinal season ticket holder and he can't
Speaker 3: stand Kyler like he wants them. He wants the Kyler
Speaker 3: Murray to be over Kyler Murray era to be over yesterday.
Speaker 3: So but man, like for fantasy, I'm not.
Speaker 2: A smaller guy.
Speaker 1: Too, though coming off the knee injury fits like you
Speaker 1: better not hang him out to dry back there too
Speaker 1: many times, right because those quarterbacks take big hits and
Speaker 1: that offensive line is still you know, I was probably
Speaker 1: middle of the road.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I.
Speaker 3: Do feel like the price has come down on him
Speaker 3: a little bit in Dynasty, So right now, I'm kind
Speaker 3: of leaning more towards fairly price than overvalued. But you
Speaker 3: do make some good points. I totally understand where you're
Speaker 3: coming from.
Speaker 2: That is fair.
Speaker 1: The next one is, you know, we told you we're
Speaker 1: not going to give you obvious ones, and this one
Speaker 1: is a little obvious for me. I'm gonna say Tua,
Speaker 1: and I love Tua as a talent, but obviously with
Speaker 1: him going out so many times with the concussions last year,
Speaker 1: I mean, he had to this offse. He's working with
Speaker 1: a jiu jitsu specialist to learn how to fall properly
Speaker 1: so he doesn't bang his head on the ground like
Speaker 1: he did last year. I mean, you know, the writing
Speaker 1: is on the wall here for his career to be
Speaker 1: over fairly quickly. Great talent averaged over twenty points per
Speaker 1: game last season, So he has Tyreeki as Jalen Waddle.
Speaker 1: There's tons and tons of talent in Miami. Around him too.
Speaker 1: Great system for a quarterback, but it just boils down
Speaker 1: to the health concerns long term. So for right now,
Speaker 1: I would say, you hold on to him, let him
Speaker 1: play a couple of weeks of the season, get those
Speaker 1: impressive numbers up again, and then trade him at his
Speaker 1: peak if you can.
Speaker 2: That would be my suggestion with Tua.
Speaker 1: But I would I would try to get out from
Speaker 1: under this guy if I could at this point and
Speaker 1: take someone younger, you know, get a rookie QB wait
Speaker 1: for one of those guys coming out next year as well.
Speaker 1: I just I have real concerns in my heart for Tua.
Speaker 1: I hope he plays fifteen years, but I do not
Speaker 1: expect him to last very much longer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, mixed feelings here too, Bogs. And it seems like
Speaker 3: you're really picking on that favorite dynasty team of mine
Speaker 3: because my top two quarterbacks are Kyler Murray and two
Speaker 3: a tongue of my law.
Speaker 2: I just looked at your roster fits and this went
Speaker 2: down it so.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I totally understand the health concerns. I mean,
Speaker 3: like multiple brain injuries, like he's he's at risk, like
Speaker 3: he's at greater risk than other players, No question, about that,
Speaker 3: and it's it's worrisome to know that his career be
Speaker 3: over with the snappier fingers, you know, like it could
Speaker 3: happen really quickly. On the other hand, I mean, we
Speaker 3: did see last year that two is actually a pretty
Speaker 3: good quarterback, you know, like quarterback. Yeah, and there were
Speaker 3: there were questions about it last year. You know, there
Speaker 3: were definitely people lined up on either side of the
Speaker 3: TUA debates. Uh, you know, ready to talk about his
Speaker 3: merits just as a player alone. And I think last
Speaker 3: year he proved that he's pretty good man. Uh, you know,
Speaker 3: Plus having Tyreek Hill and Jalen Waddell at his disposal.
Speaker 2: Not at all bad definitely helps.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So uh, we'll see if the jiu jitsu specialist helps.
Speaker 3: Maybe you should spend some time with like some w
Speaker 3: w E trainers too. If he goes to goes up
Speaker 3: to Buffalo and like a defensive tackle tries to put
Speaker 3: him through a table, yeah he'll be able to take yes, exactly.
Speaker 2: So him in one of those hardcore matches, for sure.
Speaker 3: Risky, risky, without question, bogs you know, but it is
Speaker 3: there's there's reward there too. So it's it's all how
Speaker 3: you calibrate the risk and reward, whether you think where
Speaker 3: he is currently going at startups, where you think his
Speaker 3: trade price currently is, whether you think that's reasonable or not.
Speaker 3: And I can understand just like wanting no part of tu.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you could trade him now and he
Speaker 1: could play for a long time, and you could you know,
Speaker 1: look look like a dummy. I mean that that is
Speaker 1: within the realm of possibilities, right, But I just with
Speaker 1: all those brain injuries, like you said, I mean, these guys,
Speaker 1: you know, they want to remember their name at the
Speaker 1: end of the day. And Tua would have a great
Speaker 1: career in broadcasting or as a coach, like whatever he
Speaker 1: wants to do beyond playing in the NFL. I think
Speaker 1: he's gonna be great at anyway. So he doesn't. You know,
Speaker 1: some guys need the NFL, they don't have a lot
Speaker 1: of other options.
Speaker 2: Tua is not one of those guys. Very smart could
Speaker 2: do a lot of other things.
Speaker 1: So before we get to your quarterback, because I believe
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Speaker 1: All right, Fitzy, I gave you two qbs. I think
Speaker 1: you only have one. Who is your QB?
Speaker 2: Here?
Speaker 3: All right, Bogs, I'm just gonna warn you I'm coming
Speaker 3: in hot here, So yeah, hot takes coming justin Herbert
Speaker 3: and yeah. So, just to reiterate as I said in
Speaker 3: the opening, you know this is not to say that
Speaker 3: Justin Herbert sucks. He clearly does not suck. And you
Speaker 3: know I would love to have him as my quarterback.
Speaker 3: I think most fans would love to have him as
Speaker 3: their quarterback. There aren't too many guys who are an
Speaker 3: upgrade on Justin Herbert in real life. Where I have
Speaker 3: an issue with him is that I routinely see him
Speaker 3: going fourth, fifth, sixth in dynasty startups right now, fifth. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I've got him ranked quarterback eight, and in addition to
Speaker 3: seven other quarterbacks, I would also take Justin Jefferson er
Speaker 3: Jamar Chase ahead of him in startups. So I would
Speaker 3: take him no earlier than tenth in a startup, but
Speaker 3: you know he often goes in the top half of
Speaker 3: the first round. I guess my issue with him is that,
Speaker 3: you know, he was amazing as a rookie, twenty two
Speaker 3: point nine fantasy points a game up to it to
Speaker 3: twenty three point three in year two. Last year he
Speaker 3: kind of cratered a bit. Seventeen points a game was
Speaker 3: the quarterback eleven for fantasy scoring. Now, you could definitely
Speaker 3: blame his lackluster season on Joe Lombardi. I think the
Speaker 3: Charger offense got a little stale with Lombardi as the OC.
Speaker 3: And now maybe that Kellen Moore is there, he's gonna
Speaker 3: change things a bit. You could also blame it on
Speaker 3: injury for sure, because Herbert had that what was it
Speaker 3: rib cartilage fracture that yeah, against the Chiefs, and he
Speaker 3: gutted it out through that back.
Speaker 2: He needed to leave that game, yeah.
Speaker 3: And probably miss a couple of weeks afterwards, but he
Speaker 3: did not. He stayed in the game and he toughed
Speaker 3: it out. So that may well have hindered his effectiveness
Speaker 3: and his willingness to run, because like after in year
Speaker 3: one he had two hundred and thirty four rushing yards
Speaker 3: five touchdown runs. Your two three hundred and two rushing yards,
Speaker 3: three touchdown runs. Last year just a hundred and forty
Speaker 3: seven rushing yards, no touchdown runs. So he really added
Speaker 3: nothing as a runner last year. And his passing numbers
Speaker 3: kind of dropped off too. He like hit a career
Speaker 3: low six point nine yards per attempt. His touchdown percentage
Speaker 3: was the lowest of his career. He only threw twenty
Speaker 3: five touchdowns. His sack rate was the highest of his
Speaker 3: career five point two percent. Like, maybe that's just a
Speaker 3: dip and we see him rebound. Maybe the injury bothered
Speaker 3: him for more this season that we thought. But I like,
Speaker 3: I just don't think that Herbert is like truly a
Speaker 3: running QB. I think he's just kind of a you know,
Speaker 3: like the rushing is gravy with him, kind of the
Speaker 3: way it is with Joe Burrow. But I don't think
Speaker 3: he's on Burrow's level as a passer. I just don't.
Speaker 3: And I can't see taking Herbert ahead of elite runners
Speaker 3: like Lamar Jackson or Justin Fields. And yeah, like maybe
Speaker 3: those guys have like shorter periods of relevance where you
Speaker 3: know they're not running like that at age thirty four
Speaker 3: or whatever, but like the impact you get now while
Speaker 3: they are running is just so substantial. I'm also not
Speaker 3: taking Herbert ahead of Trevor Lawrence no way, man. I
Speaker 3: just feel like Lawrence is a much higher upside. So
Speaker 3: I just think he's basically a little overpriced in startups.
Speaker 3: And if you're picking middle of the first round, I
Speaker 3: would implore you to consider someone other than Justin Herbert
Speaker 3: in the five hole six hole, seven hole.
Speaker 1: I want to push back on you a little bit here, Fitz,
Speaker 1: because I like Herbert, but I also have him as
Speaker 1: QB eight, and I have all those guys ahead of
Speaker 1: him that you just mentioned just off the cuff. I
Speaker 1: have Lawrence Fields, Burrow Lamar all ahead of him. I
Speaker 1: think the top three are kind of obvious with Mahomes,
Speaker 1: Allen and Hurts. Right, So moving beyond those guys, you know,
Speaker 1: Herbert is ranked as high as four, I believe in
Speaker 1: a lot in his ECR currently is five, as we mention,
Speaker 1: But you and I both have him at eight, So
Speaker 1: I don't have.
Speaker 2: A lot of disagreement here.
Speaker 1: I agree with you, and I think it's one of
Speaker 1: those things where you know, and this is a little
Speaker 1: bit of my concern with Kyler Murray with a new
Speaker 1: coaching staff coming over as well, you know, and maybe
Speaker 1: you know, coming from Philly, they wouldn't know this because
Speaker 1: Hurts ran so much last year. But a lot of
Speaker 1: times you get a coach in there or the QB
Speaker 1: gets hurt like Herbert did on Thursday Night Football, and
Speaker 1: they say, all right, well we're done with that, right,
Speaker 1: We're going to keep our you know, our franchise QB
Speaker 1: on the field, so we're not going to run him anymore.
Speaker 1: And maybe for the Chargers it was just at the
Speaker 1: end of the year because he already had the rib injury.
Speaker 1: But you always have to consider that at some point
Speaker 1: in their career they're gonna quit running and they're you know,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be taken away from them, unless they're Mike
Speaker 1: vick Er, Lamar Jackson, like, those guys will always run.
Speaker 2: So I'm with you. Ready to go to some running
Speaker 2: backs here?
Speaker 3: Sure, I'll add one last thing about Herbert. I will
Speaker 3: say it's nice that the Chargers seem committed to like
Speaker 3: building around him and giving him the optimal set up,
Speaker 3: you know, getting Rashawn Slater in the first round two
Speaker 3: years ago, getting Quinton Johnston, like even though they've got
Speaker 3: two pretty good starting receivers and a decent third one
Speaker 3: in Josh Palmer, but you know, they just throw another
Speaker 3: log on the fire at wide receiver this year. So
Speaker 3: I like that they're trying to set him up for success.
Speaker 3: I just worry that, you know that while he's an
Speaker 3: above average passer, I don't know if he's a great passer,
Speaker 3: and I don't know if he's a good enough runner
Speaker 3: to really move the needle in fantasy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's he definitely has an arm, Like
Speaker 1: we know that he throws just rainbows, you know, so
Speaker 1: he's got a hose. But you know, there's a difference
Speaker 1: between a thrower and a guy with an arm, you know,
Speaker 1: a passer and a guy with an arm.
Speaker 2: He can throw.
Speaker 1: The passing is you know, could be a little bit
Speaker 1: worse than we give him credit for. All Right, I'm
Speaker 1: going to go to running back here, and look, you
Speaker 1: criticize me. I already have a sooner. How about a
Speaker 1: raven in here? And it's not that I disliked this guy.
Speaker 1: I like JK. Dobbins a lot.
Speaker 2: But JK.
Speaker 1: Dobbins has only had fifteen touches in his career four times,
Speaker 1: more than fifteen touches four times in his career. He's
Speaker 1: missed more games than he's played in his first three
Speaker 1: seasons because he missed all of twenty twenty one with
Speaker 1: the ACL surgery and then came back too early last
Speaker 1: year and had to go back on the injured list
Speaker 1: after that. So he also doesn't catch the football. He's
Speaker 1: twenty five catches over his three seasons. And the Ravens
Speaker 1: they're gonna move to a different offense. We've got Todd
Speaker 1: Monkin coming over from Georgia, and they have always used
Speaker 1: multiple backs at Georgia. I think we're gonna see a
Speaker 1: lot of that from Baltimore. They like us Edwards. I
Speaker 1: think the good thing for Dobbins this year is that
Speaker 1: the Ravens didn't go out and add another running back.
Speaker 1: It's just him and Edwards. Lamar is back, though, and
Speaker 1: Lamar is going to be your number one option on
Speaker 1: this offense. Plus they added obij's A Flowers. Bateman is
Speaker 1: going to be a little more healthy. You know. Mark
Speaker 1: Andrews was banged up after I believe it was like
Speaker 1: Week ten or eleven last year with the knee and
Speaker 1: the shoulder.
Speaker 2: For the rest of the season. So I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm just not a big Dobbins guy when it comes
Speaker 1: to fantasy. I would love to see him go to
Speaker 1: a different team where they would pass the ball to him,
Speaker 1: where he could be the primary number one if he
Speaker 1: does prove that he's healthy, and he could still be
Speaker 1: that with Baltimore. But I don't know. I just think
Speaker 1: we've seen this for three years. Running backs careers in
Speaker 1: the NFL are short. He's already had a major injury,
Speaker 1: and right now in ECR, Dobbins sits at sixteen and
Speaker 1: I have him in i AM ten spots a low
Speaker 1: than that. I got him at twenty six among Dynasty Arbeans.
Speaker 1: So your thoughts on JK.
Speaker 3: Dobbins totally agree with you, Bogs. First of all, Like
Speaker 3: I'm concerned about the running backs who come off multiple
Speaker 3: ligament tears in their knees, like that's that's a hard
Speaker 3: thing to do. It's one thing for Breeze Hall to
Speaker 3: come back from just a torn ACL, Like you know,
Speaker 3: I'm not too worried about those guys, as long as
Speaker 3: the recovery period is sufficient. But you know, so he
Speaker 3: tore his ACL, LCL and meniscus in the twenty twenty
Speaker 3: one preseason. You know, comes back in Week three of
Speaker 3: last year, seemed to be like limping, like, didn't look
Speaker 3: like himself, was used kind of sparingly, didn't really do much.
Speaker 3: Then he goes back on the injured list, as you mentioned,
Speaker 3: missus six games. But maybe it was good, Like he
Speaker 3: got his knee scope to get the scar tissue broken
Speaker 3: up and came back and looked more like the JK.
Speaker 3: Dobbins we had seen before, So maybe this is behind him,
Speaker 3: but you know, with an injury like that, it's possible,
Speaker 3: like that could be a career shortener. You know, I
Speaker 3: don't expect to see Dobbins necessarily, you know, lasting into
Speaker 3: his thirties, which is fine. I mean we're playing the
Speaker 3: short game with running backs, granted, but the big thing
Speaker 3: bogs and you mentioned it. The dude just doesn't catch passes.
Speaker 3: And you know most Dynasty leagues are full point PPR,
Speaker 3: so it's hard for him to really, you know, raise
Speaker 3: that ceiling all that high when he's not going to
Speaker 3: catch passes, and you know, like it's it's not the
Speaker 3: Greg Roman Caveman offense anymore. You know, Todd Munkin might
Speaker 3: not be Bill Walsh when it comes to play calling,
Speaker 3: but he's definitely going to pass more than Greg Roman
Speaker 3: used to. And we know Lamar likes to call his
Speaker 3: own number near the goal line like he always has, So.
Speaker 1: And Andrews is down there, and you know Bateman and
Speaker 1: Obj could be red zone guys. So Isaiah likely is
Speaker 1: an enormous target down there too, so they just got
Speaker 1: options as well. So yeah, I'm out on Dobbins and
Speaker 1: it feels like you are to my second RB here,
Speaker 1: uh FITZI maybe you'll disagree with this one.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say Rashad White.
Speaker 1: And to me, it's not so much that I dislike
Speaker 1: Rashad White or his talent, but I do think that
Speaker 1: he could be at peak value right now because let
Speaker 1: me just ask you this fits. How much does his
Speaker 1: value lower if the Bucks go out and sign like
Speaker 1: Zeke right now right? It cuts his value pretty close
Speaker 1: to half, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean Zeke Dalvin Cook. Like I don't know
Speaker 3: if the I was gonna say, I don't know if
Speaker 3: the door is closed completely on Leonard Fournette coming back.
Speaker 3: So yeah, there's some you know, like the game of
Speaker 3: musical chairs are running back. The music hasn't stopped yet,
Speaker 3: and it's it's very possible, like you know, Tampa, there
Speaker 3: are only so many possible landing spots here, Like you know,
Speaker 3: someone could go to Minnesota if Cook doesn't go there,
Speaker 3: someone could go to Tampa, someone could go to Miami,
Speaker 3: like there are a couple other you know, maybe Denver
Speaker 3: a few spots, but like Rashad White, like his status
Speaker 3: is definitely up in the air and could be he
Speaker 3: could be a peak value right now in advance of
Speaker 3: the Buccaneers possibly bringing someone else in. But I do
Speaker 3: love the guy Bogs, Like, if you've got other do
Speaker 3: you have any other issues with him other than the
Speaker 3: possible addition of.
Speaker 1: I think that's the biggest thing for me. And you know,
Speaker 1: like he's big, he's fast, he can catch the ball
Speaker 1: real well. I just don't know if he blends it
Speaker 1: all together to be a guy that can be a
Speaker 1: twenty plus touch player in the NFL. Right and right
Speaker 1: now it looks great because his backups are Chase Edmonds,
Speaker 1: who you know, I would not be surprised if he
Speaker 1: was cut before the season started, Keishaan Vaughan, who has
Speaker 1: kind of proven that he is not the guy that
Speaker 1: we thought he was, and then a Udfa and Sean Tucker.
Speaker 1: So I feel that it's almost guaranteed that the Bucks,
Speaker 1: you know, doesn't have to be one of those primo guys,
Speaker 1: one of those top guys, but just bring in someone
Speaker 1: that is a rock, you know, that that can you know,
Speaker 1: carry between the tackles and stuff and give Rashad White
Speaker 1: a breather because they don't have that on the roster currently.
Speaker 1: Unless Sean Tucker proves that he can do it, because Vaughn,
Speaker 1: to me, has proven that he can't.
Speaker 2: And Chase Edmonds is a receiving back.
Speaker 1: He is a Geo Bernard clone, you know, little guy,
Speaker 1: So I don't think he's gonna be doing a lot
Speaker 1: of running between the tackles. So I feel that it's
Speaker 1: almost guaranteed that they bring somebody else in unless Tucker
Speaker 1: just looks real good. So for me, it's right now,
Speaker 1: trade him at his starter's value, or if they don't
Speaker 1: get somebody going in the season, I think i'd move
Speaker 1: off from him before the season is out for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the reason I really can't get on board Bogs,
Speaker 3: I do understand that. But like even if they did
Speaker 3: bring in Zeke, who you know, might be cooked anyway,
Speaker 3: or you know, Dalvin Cook who probably isn't cooked so
Speaker 3: to speak, but like could get hurt at any time
Speaker 3: and is getting older. Like, I just think White is
Speaker 3: a pretty good player, and we saw that he was
Speaker 3: able to sort of force a timeshare with Leonard Fournette, who,
Speaker 3: like the Bucks, had been really comfortable using you know,
Speaker 3: even though like not a super efficient runner or pass catcher,
Speaker 3: but the Bucks were clearly used, comfortable using him and
Speaker 3: using him a lot during the Tom Brady era. But
Speaker 3: then this rookie comes in and immediately forces like a
Speaker 3: fifty to fifty time share. And this was after we
Speaker 3: saw the Bucks like you know, give lip service to
Speaker 3: playing Ronald Jones, and you know, we never saw Key
Speaker 3: Shaan Vaughn get any traction. And part of it was
Speaker 3: because they had Tom Brady at quarterback and like you know,
Speaker 3: they had to have a decent pass blocker there. They
Speaker 3: couldn't let Brady get killed. The guy was a statue
Speaker 3: late in his career.
Speaker 1: And if Kyle Treusk gets this job, FITZI, he is
Speaker 1: exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: But that's the thing Box, I mean, like Rashad White
Speaker 3: was really NFL ready, uh coming out of ASU, because
Speaker 3: this dude can block, pass block and he can catch
Speaker 3: passes like he's he's good at those things.
Speaker 1: I think he's better in that role like to me,
Speaker 1: like so, I think he still holds value, but I
Speaker 1: think his value moves down because if you bring in Zeke,
Speaker 1: Zeke is between the tackles.
Speaker 2: If you bring in Dalvin Cook, I mean White goes
Speaker 2: to the bench.
Speaker 3: Yeah that's fair. I mean it's a mistake to look
Speaker 3: at him as another Nase Harris type or guy. I agree,
Speaker 3: Like his best role is probably like, you know, a
Speaker 3: little bit of the early down work and then plays
Speaker 3: on passing downs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what running backs do you have here?
Speaker 3: Fits, I've just got one more box, and you know
Speaker 3: I'm gonna pick on my own green bit packers. It's
Speaker 3: Aj Dillon. Like, I just Dylan does not contribute that
Speaker 3: much as a pass catcher, even though he's shown surprising
Speaker 3: efficiency there, or at least he did a couple of
Speaker 3: years ago. He's just not going to be a heavy
Speaker 3: contributor as a pass catcher, and he doesn't have the
Speaker 3: early down work to himself either. Obviously with Aaron Jones.
Speaker 3: I mean maybe one day after he's decoupled from Aaron Jones,
Speaker 3: like maybe Dylan becomes the primary early down back somewhere.
Speaker 3: But like, we haven't really seen too many signs that
Speaker 3: he's a special guy. And I know we want to
Speaker 3: love those big backs, bogs. Dylan is two forty seven,
Speaker 3: and you know, going back to Earl Campbell, Craig Ironhead, Hayward,
Speaker 3: Mike Alstott, we love those guys who can run people over,
Speaker 3: and Dylan is like huge, you know, I mean, look
Speaker 3: at the quads on that guy. But you know, like
Speaker 3: he's he's topped a thousand yards from scrimmage once. Uh,
Speaker 3: he's averaged one point eight targets a game over his career.
Speaker 3: You know, like, I don't really see a lot of
Speaker 3: upside here. And his ECR I think puts him as
Speaker 3: like a mid range running back three. I've been more
Speaker 3: as like a mid range running back four. I think
Speaker 3: he's like a depth piece and not really like a
Speaker 3: guy who can potentially be a long term starter for
Speaker 3: your dynasty team.
Speaker 1: I think I have to agree with you finally on
Speaker 1: AJ Dillon. Here fits And the main thing to me
Speaker 1: is that the really the thing that hurts my soul
Speaker 1: watching AJ Dillon is knowing that at Boston College, this
Speaker 1: dude was everything. I mean, they were giving him the
Speaker 1: Derrick Henry treatment, so you know, he was the whole offense.
Speaker 2: He was everything.
Speaker 1: Opposing defenses knew what was coming and they still could
Speaker 1: not stop AJ Dillon. So to see that at Boston College,
Speaker 1: a power five team in college, and to see him
Speaker 1: get drafted with Aaron Jones, that kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: knocked some of the wind out of my sales immediately,
Speaker 1: and then when they extended Aaron Jones, I was like,
Speaker 1: oh lord, another knock to AJ Dillon's long term value.
Speaker 1: And like you said, not a pass catcher, right, Aaron
Speaker 1: Jones is the main pass catcher. Aaron Jones is also
Speaker 1: the main between the tackles guys. So we want to
Speaker 1: see AJ Dillon get more out of, you know, being
Speaker 1: a red zone back. Maybe he does that now with
Speaker 1: Jordan Love. Maybe they have to go to him a
Speaker 1: little bit more down at the goal line because it's just,
Speaker 1: you know, you're not getting a lot out of Jordan Love,
Speaker 1: so you better run the ball down there. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but you know he's he's in a committee behind a
Speaker 1: back that's better than him and is going to be
Speaker 1: for a little bit here. So it's it's I'm with
Speaker 1: you in that. While he's on Green Bay, probably his
Speaker 1: values can be less than perceived.
Speaker 2: So I'm with you there.
Speaker 3: And by the way, Boggs, that was Dylan was part
Speaker 3: of that not so illustrious twenty twenty Packers draft where
Speaker 3: they traded up to draft Jordan Love in the first round,
Speaker 3: came back with, you know, an early down thumper running
Speaker 3: back in the second round, Josiah Deguara and h Back
Speaker 3: in the third round. Like one of the worst drafts
Speaker 3: any NFL team has had in the last five years,
Speaker 3: I think. And it was the best part of.
Speaker 2: It by a million miles too much.
Speaker 3: And you know, like I was so depressed by that
Speaker 3: draft as a Packer fan, which I like hated at
Speaker 3: the time, and I think, like, you know, time has
Speaker 3: shown that that was not a great I don't know,
Speaker 3: maybe Jordan Love turns out to be great and I'll
Speaker 3: have to change my tune on that. But man, that
Speaker 3: was a rough couple of days, Bogs. It was right
Speaker 3: at the onset of COVID, so I couldn't go out
Speaker 3: to a borrow and bar and drink my sorrows away. Man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, drafting all out of Roger Goodell's basement too,
Speaker 1: the very strange year that year. I do have one
Speaker 1: more running back I forgot I forgot about. But before
Speaker 1: we get to him, I gotta tell you guys about
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Speaker 1: dot com. I forgot about this guy because I was
Speaker 1: looking last night. I was trying to add my tenth player.
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure what position I was going to do
Speaker 1: it at, and I decided to go back to running
Speaker 1: back and pick on DeAndre Swift a little bit. And look,
Speaker 1: I know that DeAndre Swift landed in a great spot
Speaker 1: being traded to Philly, but he was traded for a
Speaker 1: six round pick. When you get traded for a six
Speaker 1: round pick during the NFL draft, that means that other teams,
Speaker 1: you know, you try to get to squeeze a fifth
Speaker 1: or a fourth out of them. But the NFL is
Speaker 1: telling you how they viewed Deandres when he only gets
Speaker 1: moved for a six round pick a little higher contract
Speaker 1: as well, So maybe that was part of it. But
Speaker 1: for me, you know, I love Swift coming out of college.
Speaker 1: I thought he was the best running back in that draft,
Speaker 1: and that is a draft that included Jonathan Taylor. I
Speaker 1: was higher on Swift than I was on Taylor, even
Speaker 1: though he had a little size concern. Now, look, I
Speaker 1: love Taylor too, don't get me wrong, and when they
Speaker 1: got drafted, I was a Taylor guy.
Speaker 2: But I really liked Swift.
Speaker 1: But Philly ran the ball very well, as he's of
Speaker 1: a thirty percent of Swift's career touches our receptions, and
Speaker 1: the Eagles were dead last in the NFL in target shares.
Speaker 1: In the target share four running backs, Swift had seventy
Speaker 1: targets last year on the Lions, as you know, like
Speaker 1: the third or fourth option on that team, and the
Speaker 1: Eagles running backs as a whole had sixty one targets.
Speaker 1: So I mean new offensive coordinator Brian Johnson will call
Speaker 1: more pass plays to the running back. You don't go
Speaker 1: out and get DeAndre Swift if you're going to run
Speaker 1: the same exact offense that you had last year. But
Speaker 1: you know, they made the Super Bowl last year with
Speaker 1: the offense they were calling. So it's kind of one
Speaker 1: of those if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And
Speaker 1: I think Rashad Penny is a better running back than
Speaker 1: DeAndre Swift. Swift has also been nicked up pretty much
Speaker 1: his entire career, and I don't think having DeAndre Swift
Speaker 1: on this team is gonna, you know, keep them from
Speaker 1: adding a back soon unless he just, you know, shirks
Speaker 1: everything he did with the Lions and is an upper
Speaker 1: echelon Pro Bowl running back with the Eagles in year one,
Speaker 1: and I just don't see that happening. So I'm a
Speaker 1: little bit lower than consensus on Swift as well. What
Speaker 1: do you think about DeAndre?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean, boy, like at least he got a
Speaker 3: soft landing with the Eagles, you know, like the Lions
Speaker 3: pushed him on a third floor window and he landed
Speaker 3: on a pile of pillows here with the Eagles, So
Speaker 3: like he goes to a really good team. But as
Speaker 3: you said, Bogs, I mean, like Jalen Hurts is not
Speaker 3: really a dump off type of passer. He doesn't the
Speaker 3: mobile guys don't need to dump off like they It's
Speaker 3: just easier for them to take off and run and
Speaker 3: get the artist JK. Dobbins exactly exactly so. But I mean,
Speaker 3: like DeAndre Swift spent three years with the Lions, and
Speaker 3: the Lions gave him the resounding thumbs down, you know,
Speaker 3: like the Roman Emperor thumbs down, and exactly man. And
Speaker 3: like I was talking to Bob Harris of Football Diehards
Speaker 3: last night on a show, and you know, he was
Speaker 3: saying he's talked to two different Philadelphia Eagles beat writers
Speaker 3: who are adamant in their belief that Rashad Penny will
Speaker 3: be the primary early down back for the Eagles this year.
Speaker 1: Well, they got him first, like he was a priority
Speaker 1: for them, so they went and got him first. They
Speaker 1: also loved what Gainwell did, and we've seen Philly just
Speaker 1: always use multiple backs, So I questioned Swift's role with you.
Speaker 3: Man, and I loved him almost as much as you
Speaker 3: did coming out of college, not more than Jonathan Taylor Boggs,
Speaker 3: you know exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I understand that. But let's go to some
Speaker 1: wide receivers fits. I'll let you kick us off in whiteouts.
Speaker 3: Here, all right, Bogs, let's fight. Let's argue here, because
Speaker 3: I gotta bust out a Steeler for you. And We've
Speaker 3: talked about this on the show. I've done the heel
Speaker 3: turn with George Pickens, like I used to be a
Speaker 3: pro Pickens guy, and I'm still very intrigued. I'm just
Speaker 3: gonna say I think Pickens is risky. Like I think
Speaker 3: there's still a path to start him here, but I
Speaker 3: think it's probably a little riskier than I would be
Speaker 3: willing to. You know, I'm not willing to take that
Speaker 3: gamble on a startup draft anymore. And I'm not really
Speaker 3: gonna go out and trade for Pickens. We saw him
Speaker 3: make these spectacular highlight reel plays, and I think that's
Speaker 3: going to draw a lot of people in. I mean,
Speaker 3: the guy, you know, he's not just good at contested catches.
Speaker 3: He is special in that regard, like that is something
Speaker 3: he is just freakishly good at doing. But man. There's
Speaker 3: some other red flags here, and one is that he
Speaker 3: wasn't able to really draw targets on a consistent basis.
Speaker 3: His target share was fifteen point three percent as a rookie.
Speaker 3: He never had more than eight targets in any game.
Speaker 3: He never had more than six targets from week six on. So,
Speaker 3: like that's concerning, and.
Speaker 2: Like that was that was the picket time.
Speaker 3: So it was man, and we thought like it was
Speaker 3: we were kind of blaming Mitch Trubisky on not looking
Speaker 3: at Pickens enough. And and you know, Pickett didn't really
Speaker 3: throw to Pickett's Pickens that much more than Trubisky did
Speaker 3: so and then plus, like in the next gen stats,
Speaker 3: I mean, Pickens graded out near the bottom of all
Speaker 3: wide receivers in like separation, average separation per out run,
Speaker 3: average cushion, and yards after the catch. He was kind
Speaker 3: of a Mike Evans just like catch it and that's it.
Speaker 3: I think he averaged two yards after the catch last year.
Speaker 3: So again, like.
Speaker 1: Trying to make a bad argument against the guy, don't
Speaker 1: compare him to Mike Evans.
Speaker 2: Mike Evans come.
Speaker 3: Exactly and some guye some guys are just that style.
Speaker 3: Like they they are more air yards lists, uh, you know,
Speaker 3: not run after the catch specialists. And maybe Pickens is
Speaker 3: one of those guys, and that's fine, but like the
Speaker 3: getting separation thing is a problem. And I think he
Speaker 3: uh you know, like when Matt Harmon Shade charted him
Speaker 3: for reception perception, he noted that Pickens particularly had trouble
Speaker 3: getting space for himself against zone defenses and with the
Speaker 3: you know, proliferation of zone defenses in the NFL, Like
Speaker 3: that's a big problem.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 1: So so here's where I'll push back on Pickens for sure.
Speaker 2: Here.
Speaker 1: Uh. Number one, why do we care about separation if
Speaker 1: he is one of the best contested catch guys you
Speaker 1: know that we've ever seen.
Speaker 3: If you don't like I don't know if bugs because
Speaker 3: if you don't separate, you don't draw targets. Your quarterbacks
Speaker 3: don't like throwing to you if you're wearing your defenders
Speaker 3: like an Italian suit every time, like ahell tailored Italian suit.
Speaker 1: Okay, look, and maybe that's something he improves on. Number two,
Speaker 1: This was the most basic offense that you'll see in
Speaker 1: the NFL, and that is why the Steelers fans wanted
Speaker 1: Matt Canada fired. I mean, he wouldn't let Pickett change
Speaker 1: the plays. He wouldn't let him audible. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you've seen this yet, fits, and you know I'm
Speaker 1: crazy Steelers fans, of course I've seen all this stuff.
Speaker 1: But like the game winning touchdown pass to Nausey against
Speaker 1: the Ravens, like Pickett acted like he couldn't hear Canada
Speaker 1: and called his own play like he heard him perfectly,
Speaker 1: but he called his own play in the huddle and
Speaker 1: it scored a touchdown. I think they're going to give
Speaker 1: Picket a little more freedom to throw the ball. But look,
Speaker 1: Pickens is probably going to be a boomer bus wide
Speaker 1: receiver for his career. He's gonna live on making big
Speaker 1: plays and getting in the end zone. So if you
Speaker 1: want to say that, you know, maybe after this season
Speaker 1: his values down a little bit. I completely understand that.
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm actually very high on him in
Speaker 1: terms of ECR. I think I'm kind of lukewarm, so
Speaker 1: you know, I'll give it to you a little bit.
Speaker 1: But I do think he has there's a lot of
Speaker 1: meat on the bone for improvement with him, so I
Speaker 1: think if he works at it a little bit, I
Speaker 1: think he'll be much better at separation in the second year,
Speaker 1: and that him and Pickett will you know, gain a
Speaker 1: little more trust.
Speaker 3: I'm getting a little bit of that DeVante Parker vibe
Speaker 3: from him, Bogs. I like this. I love this spectacular
Speaker 3: splash game. And then he'll disappear for a month, you know.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, before you make me sick fits, who's
Speaker 1: next any of this year?
Speaker 3: All right, let's go to Deebo Samuel And you know,
Speaker 3: so Deebo's twenty seven now, like he kind of you know,
Speaker 3: he got old in a hurry on us, and he
Speaker 3: had that crazy twenty twenty one season where he had
Speaker 3: fourteen hundred receiving yards and six touchdown catches and then
Speaker 3: added three hundre in sixty five rushing yards and eight
Speaker 3: touchdown runs. Like and it was kind of almost like
Speaker 3: a split season where he was this monster receiver in
Speaker 3: the first half and then this crazy hybrid weapon in
Speaker 3: the second half. And look, Bogs, I mean, I think
Speaker 3: Debo is one of the most dangerous dudes in the
Speaker 3: league with the ball in his hands, no question, Like
Speaker 3: that is his superpower. Put the ball in Devo's hands
Speaker 3: and you know, break tackles, elude people, he's he's great
Speaker 3: at that. But you know, aside from that year where
Speaker 3: he had an average depth of eight point four yards,
Speaker 3: that's twenty twenty one. I mean last year his average
Speaker 3: depth of target was four point three yards. Twenty twenty
Speaker 3: it was two point two yards. Like he's been the
Speaker 3: short area receiver and gimmicky run guy. Like, so I
Speaker 3: worry that the upside is limited with that sort of profile.
Speaker 3: And I don't think they're going to need him to
Speaker 3: do that much rushing because now they've got Christian McCaffrey
Speaker 3: and Elijah Mitchell. And if those guys are healthy, what
Speaker 3: do you need Debo running the ball for except for maybe,
Speaker 3: like you know, one or two gadget plays a game.
Speaker 3: Because twenty twenty one kind of extraordinary circumstances, that was
Speaker 3: the year Raheem Mostert got hurt in Week one and
Speaker 3: was done for the year. And they didn't have a
Speaker 3: single other running back play more than eleven games that
Speaker 3: year unless you count Kyle Juice Check. That was it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean, right, they.
Speaker 3: Actually needed Deebo to pitch in as a runner that year,
Speaker 3: and they don't need it anymore now. It's just like
Speaker 3: the luxury you can pull out of the playbook when
Speaker 3: you want to catch them defense off guard.
Speaker 1: You know, I think the big thing for me with
Speaker 1: Deebo is that maybe he's gonna still be really good.
Speaker 1: And you know, obviously the guy gets yack, I mean
Speaker 1: stack yak. That is what he is is just pile
Speaker 1: it up, pile it up. That's why his average up
Speaker 1: the target is short. It's because they know all they
Speaker 1: got to do is a short completion to him is
Speaker 1: like a dump off to Christian McCaffrey, it's the same thing.
Speaker 1: Guy works well in space, he makes guys miss, he
Speaker 1: runs through tens and all that stuff. But if you
Speaker 1: keep throwing these short passes, or you keep running him
Speaker 1: out of the backfield, his career is going to be
Speaker 1: cut short. You know, running backs don't last long, and
Speaker 1: running backs have much bigger frames than Deebo Samuel, So
Speaker 1: I'm with you in that regard. I think the talent
Speaker 1: is still supremely good. You know, I think that he
Speaker 1: is one of the better wide receivers in the NFL.
Speaker 1: But I do think in terms of dynasty, and I'm
Speaker 1: a short window guy here too, so like I'll roster
Speaker 1: him without issue now. But I think after two seasons,
Speaker 1: I'm getting rid of Debo. And if he gets hurt
Speaker 1: this year or next year, you know, the value is
Speaker 1: going to absolutely plummet for him.
Speaker 2: So I am with you, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Can I better frame that for a sec, Bogs, I
Speaker 3: just want to clarify something like that. So, and in fact,
Speaker 3: I have Deebo of that team where I've got Kyler
Speaker 3: into as my quarterbacks and like we are listing your
Speaker 3: roster here, yeah, man, So I mean we did that
Speaker 3: startup draft in twenty twenty, and like I've had a
Speaker 3: successful team. I made the championship, lost it both of
Speaker 3: the first two years, made the playoffs last year, got
Speaker 3: bounced in my first game. Whatever. So like, Debo has
Speaker 3: given me a lot in the three years I've had him,
Speaker 3: and if, like you know, if I didn't get anything
Speaker 3: else from Deebo, I'm still pretty happy with the value
Speaker 3: with where I got him in the twenty twenty startup Draft.
Speaker 3: But I'm just kind of holding him right now and
Speaker 3: riding it out with Debo. Like that's you know, because
Speaker 3: I still feel like the championship window is pride open,
Speaker 3: just a crack for this team. And you know, basically
Speaker 3: my thought is that if you're not a championship contender,
Speaker 3: this is probably your last good chance to sell on
Speaker 3: de ball.
Speaker 1: Okay, and that is that's a strong case to sell
Speaker 1: debo quickly. I'm going to give you the last three
Speaker 1: guys on my list. I'm gonna tell you about all
Speaker 1: of them, and then I'll get your reaction because they're
Speaker 1: lower And I am so excited to hear about your
Speaker 1: last two guys here. One is kind of obvious, but
Speaker 1: the first one I'm really excited about. So let's start
Speaker 1: with Calvin Ridley. Ridley is gonna be thirty next year.
Speaker 1: The Jacks already have some good receiving options in Kirk
Speaker 1: Ingram and Jay Jones. Ridley had an amazing twenty twenty season,
Speaker 1: but missed all but five games in his rookie season.
Speaker 1: He only played ten games the next year, and then
Speaker 1: the weird breakup with the Falcons and then the suspension.
Speaker 1: Is gonna be so much rust to knock off for
Speaker 1: Calvin Ridley, and they already have good options in Jacksonville.
Speaker 1: Ridley could easily be the best of Kirk and Jay
Speaker 1: Jones and all those guys.
Speaker 2: But I how do we know?
Speaker 1: How do we possibly know what to expect from a
Speaker 1: guy that hasn't played in a year and a half
Speaker 1: and is you know, gonna be thirty years. So Calvin
Speaker 1: Ridley is my first wide receiver that I am concerned about.
Speaker 1: Number two Mike Williams. The Chargers just drafted his replacement
Speaker 1: in Johnston, and even when he's injured, he's not injured,
Speaker 1: which is often he's almost always questionable. My man has
Speaker 1: been second in target percentage on the Chargers only once
Speaker 1: in his career, so we can assume he's behind Keenan.
Speaker 1: The last year Palmer had more, he was second twenty one.
Speaker 1: Hunter Henry got him in twenty twenty, Eckler got him
Speaker 1: in nineteen, and he was fourth in twenty eighteen. Right now,
Speaker 1: Mike Evans, who you mentioned before, is behind him in
Speaker 1: dynasty rankings, and even with Baker Mike Evan, I'll take
Speaker 1: Mike Evans all day, every day. That dude has never
Speaker 1: had a season below ten points per game, and he's
Speaker 1: only a year older than Mike Williams two. So I
Speaker 1: just don't understand the Mike Williams love and my third one,
Speaker 1: and I really don't understand the love here. I'm going
Speaker 1: back to Baltimore and I love this player, but I
Speaker 1: hate his situation. For Sean Bateman, what is he doing
Speaker 1: at thirty eight overall in our ECR Andrews is the
Speaker 1: number one receiving option on that team. They signed obij
Speaker 1: and they drafted Zay Flowers. Bateman isn't dead, but he's
Speaker 1: probably gonna have to get out of Baltimore to have
Speaker 1: crazy amount of success, and he's not a free agent
Speaker 1: until twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2: Fits.
Speaker 1: So these three guys, Ridley with the rust Williams with
Speaker 1: the you know, injury history and not getting the amount
Speaker 1: of targets that we want him to get and having
Speaker 1: his replacement drafted, and Rashad Batman getting buried in one offseason.
Speaker 1: I mean, I got major concerns about all three of
Speaker 1: these guys, all.
Speaker 3: Right, I mean I agree with you and Ridley. I
Speaker 3: got a fact check you here, Bogs, he is, he's
Speaker 3: twenty eight.
Speaker 2: Now he will uh twenty eight, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: He'll turn twenty nine on December twentieth, just about a
Speaker 3: week after I turned twenty nine.
Speaker 2: Bogs.
Speaker 1: Oh, we were right after you turned yes, exactly, so
Speaker 1: on birthday you and Mike Williams.
Speaker 3: Yes, So I'm about as a year off and by
Speaker 3: the time he takes the field for Week one, it's
Speaker 3: going to have been nearly two years since he last
Speaker 3: played football. And as we saw with the Shawn Watson
Speaker 3: last year, it is hard to come back from that
Speaker 3: long of a layoff in the NFL. Maybe it's different
Speaker 3: for a wide receiver than it is for a quarterback,
Speaker 3: but still there, And like, I don't know, I mean,
Speaker 3: is this dude really committed to football? Like he had
Speaker 3: the gambling thing, which was just a stupid thing to
Speaker 3: get suspended for, and then like I know, before that,
Speaker 3: and I'm not knocking him for this, I know like
Speaker 3: he was, you know, I talked about possibly like taking
Speaker 3: time off for to attend to his mental health and
Speaker 3: and that's great, man, But it's just like, I don't
Speaker 3: know if football is that important to this guy after
Speaker 3: the gambling thing like that. That's my my big issue.
Speaker 3: And you know, like is he even going to be
Speaker 3: the Jags lead receiver? Like I mean, I've I've already
Speaker 3: got a prop bet with one of my friends that like,
Speaker 3: I think Christian Kirk is going to have more receptions
Speaker 3: in yardage than than Ridley this year. I would, yeah,
Speaker 3: And like Ingram is still there and Zay Jones and
Speaker 3: like they've got some pass catching running back. So like,
Speaker 3: I know, there's probably going to be a lot of
Speaker 3: love to go around with Trevor Lawrence, but you know,
Speaker 3: like I just don't see Ridley having one of those
Speaker 3: smash seasons like he had in Atlanta when it was
Speaker 3: basically you know, at first Julio and Ridley and then
Speaker 3: for a while just Ridley. So I'm with you. I
Speaker 3: feel like the price has come down in Dynasty on
Speaker 3: Mike Williams. Like when I see Mike Williams trades in
Speaker 3: my various leagues, now it seems like there's been sort
Speaker 3: of a reset with his value. So I do agree
Speaker 3: with the premise that, like, yes, he's hurt a lot,
Speaker 3: and he's got all this target competition, but I still
Speaker 3: like him more than Mike Evans and Dynasty bogs, you know,
Speaker 3: and Evan's not me. I'm not trying to slam Evans man,
Speaker 3: but like, you know, justin Herbert targets versus Baker Mayfield targets,
Speaker 3: and the fact that Evans was like, I mean, how
Speaker 3: long did Evans go through a touchdown drought last year?
Speaker 3: Like nine games and when Mike Evans isn't scoring touchdowns,
Speaker 3: man Like.
Speaker 2: He's still in a half PPR. He still averaged more
Speaker 2: points than Mike Williams.
Speaker 3: He did, but he had that one game where he
Speaker 3: had three touchdowns. I was kind of like the season
Speaker 3: saver all in one week. But so I don't know,
Speaker 3: man Like, I still would feel pretty good about throwing
Speaker 3: Mike Williams into my lineup any week he's healthy.
Speaker 1: You know, I was a good player. Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 1: And I won't knock the talent on any of these guys.
Speaker 1: They're all very talented. It's just the situation for Mike
Speaker 1: Williams just seems weird and I and I really like
Speaker 1: the injury prone guys drive me nuts because it's not
Speaker 1: just the weeks that they miss, it's the weeks that
Speaker 1: they're questionable as well, and you don't want to play them.
Speaker 1: And that is Mike Williams two eight t He is
Speaker 1: questionable pretty much every week.
Speaker 2: So yeah, uh, he just frustrates me.
Speaker 3: And Bateman Bogs. It's like, I still don't think we
Speaker 3: have a verdict in on Bateman, you know, like I
Speaker 3: I think you're right coming out of Minnesota, like I
Speaker 3: saw a lot of that dude in college, and honestly,
Speaker 3: I thought he had no weakness bogs like good route runner,
Speaker 3: good hands, good after the catch, can line up inside
Speaker 3: or outside. I'm not going to be shy about him
Speaker 3: just because of Odell Beckham, because you know, I'm setting
Speaker 3: me over under on games played for Odell Beckham at
Speaker 3: like eight point five this year.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's fair.
Speaker 3: And like Zay Flowers, yeah, I like him as a prospect,
Speaker 3: but who knows, and we do know they're gonna throw
Speaker 3: to Mark Andrews. But like if Bateman is, Bateman is good,
Speaker 3: he's gonna get his And I still think Bateman is good,
Speaker 3: So I can't really go with you there. I think
Speaker 3: I think wide receiver thirty eight is like fair.
Speaker 2: Oh I do not.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's you know, I think a lot
Speaker 1: of it is just this year too. This year is
Speaker 1: huge for him, and I like rashot Bateman. But like
Speaker 1: I said, this is a run first offense where Mark
Speaker 1: Andrews is your number one target getter. It's not a
Speaker 1: question if he's out there, he is the number one.
Speaker 1: Uh So who is two? Two is Lamar Jackson, Three
Speaker 1: is JK. Dobbins Just in terms of usage and plays
Speaker 1: that they get. So Bateman at best is for and
Speaker 1: with Zay and OBJ there, I just think he's gonna
Speaker 1: be hit or miss this season, and if he doesn't
Speaker 1: get on his horse this season, his value is going
Speaker 1: to plummet after missing so many games last year. So
Speaker 1: I'm just kind of a you know, if he's in
Speaker 1: this wide receiver three four borderline right now, I feel like,
Speaker 1: would you trade Bateman to get a Secon twenty twenty
Speaker 1: five second.
Speaker 3: Twenty twenty five or twenty twenty four or twenty twenty
Speaker 3: twenty four. Yeah, I mean that's pretty fair. That's like,
Speaker 3: that's a fair exchange. I think.
Speaker 1: I think if I'm deep at wide receiver, I probably
Speaker 1: do that. Yeah, And if I could get more, I
Speaker 1: would take it.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's that's probably about where we're at with
Speaker 3: Baiteman admittedly, but I mean wide receiver thirty eight for
Speaker 3: a guy who still has like, you know, a lot
Speaker 3: of years ahead of him. That's the thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just get out of Baltimore.
Speaker 1: That's why I was hoping he's going to get traded
Speaker 1: during the draft, but didn't end up happening. But you
Speaker 1: got three more left, and we only got ten minutes finished.
Speaker 1: I think just two to the finish.
Speaker 3: Two more, right, yeah, so, and I can go fast
Speaker 3: on these guys. One DeVante Adams, And this one's pretty obvious. Man,
Speaker 3: he's thirty now, and like this is going to be
Speaker 3: the worst quarterback situation of his career. Like he's not
Speaker 3: working with Aaron Rodgers anymore, he's not working with his
Speaker 3: college teammates Derek Carr, with whom he made such beautiful
Speaker 3: music at Fresno States, and you know, had such a
Speaker 3: big year last year. Now it's going to be Jimmy Garoppolo,
Speaker 3: who does not really push the ball down field aggressively.
Speaker 3: Like we know that about Jimmy g Like he doesn't
Speaker 3: do that. So I worry that the ceiling for DeVante
Speaker 3: isn't going to be that great. And you know, I
Speaker 3: feel like Captain Obvious bringing up a thirty year old
Speaker 3: wide receiver is an overvalue guy. But man, his value
Speaker 3: is his ADP like startups is fourth round man. And
Speaker 3: I'm just like, even if I'm in win now mode,
Speaker 3: I'm not drafting Devonte Adams in the fourth round just
Speaker 3: because I don't think he's going to have one of
Speaker 3: those fourteen hundred yard seasons this year with Jimmy g
Speaker 3: at quarterback.
Speaker 1: Where do you have him at wide receiver for dynasy
Speaker 1: Ed No, Off the top.
Speaker 3: Of head, I don't have my rankings up, Bogs, but
Speaker 3: it's like it's it's in the team late teen, no twenty,
Speaker 3: I've got him at.
Speaker 2: Like twekay, I have him at fourteen?
Speaker 1: Is is ECRs sixteen, So you're just a little below.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, look, this is a guy that I like,
Speaker 1: being the short window guy. Like, give me two years
Speaker 1: of DeVante Adams over the next five of Rashaw Bateman
Speaker 1: and I'll be happy. But it feels to me like
Speaker 1: if you could get like Bateman in a pick, you
Speaker 1: would probably do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean like I could still see trading for
Speaker 3: DeVante Adams if I'm like in the running for a
Speaker 3: title and I need something to put me over the
Speaker 3: top and it's week eight, you know, and I need
Speaker 3: to just sprint for the finish line. I could see
Speaker 3: adding DeVante, but you know, like to give up future
Speaker 3: considerations for him, you just have to know you're not
Speaker 3: going to get you know, probably a lot more production.
Speaker 3: You know, he's he's definitely in the back nine of
Speaker 3: his career and probably on the sixteenth all or so.
Speaker 3: So you know, we've seen other guys like AJ Green
Speaker 3: and Julio Jones hit the wall right around the time
Speaker 3: they turn thirty, you know.
Speaker 2: And the drop is precipitous.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it is a bad drop off.
Speaker 3: So then my last guy is Marquise Brown, who I
Speaker 3: swear like bugs. I just feel like this guy is
Speaker 3: so perpetually overrated. You know, now he's going to be
Speaker 3: age twenty six, so he's still like, you know, young
Speaker 3: to mid career, sort of in the prime of his career.
Speaker 3: But man, he'd a thousand eight yards in twenty twenty one,
Speaker 3: and other than that, he has not hit eight hundred
Speaker 3: yards in any of his three other seasons than the league.
Speaker 3: We saw his targets just dry up shrivel after DeAndre
Speaker 3: Hopkins came back from his suspension last year, like he
Speaker 3: just went and like career averaged seven point two yards
Speaker 3: per carry or yards per target, which is not that great.
Speaker 3: And then the last two years six point nine and
Speaker 3: six point six yards, so nine touchdowns over the last
Speaker 3: two years in twenty eight games. I just don't see
Speaker 3: a lot of sizzle here. And I think there's still
Speaker 3: more enthusiasm for him than there should be.
Speaker 1: I was so excited about Marquise Brown getting out of Baltimore.
Speaker 1: I kind of thought that situation where they don't pass up,
Speaker 1: you know, was going to be good for him to
Speaker 1: get out of there, and specifically going to a Cliff
Speaker 1: Kingsbury offense where they throw the ball a million times.
Speaker 1: And he was pretty good for those first six weeks
Speaker 1: that Hopkins was suspended. But like you said, Hopkins comes back.
Speaker 1: Greg Dortsch had a couple of games with more targets
Speaker 1: than him. Zach Ertz is going to be hurt starting
Speaker 1: this year, but Trey McBride is a good option, you know,
Speaker 1: as well in that Cardinals offense.
Speaker 2: So I think I'm with you.
Speaker 1: I'm definitely probably not as far down the list as
Speaker 1: you are on Marquis Brown, but I looked early and
Speaker 1: I'm below ECR, which will be a first for me
Speaker 1: on a guy with his type of talent.
Speaker 2: Sougs.
Speaker 3: I got to I don't want to be guilty of
Speaker 3: false advertising. We've only given the listeners fourteen people, and
Speaker 3: there is one more guy I totally forgot about because
Speaker 3: I neglected the tight end position we have one tight end.
Speaker 2: Okay, what we got all right?
Speaker 3: Darren Waller? So, man, I saw like his ECR is
Speaker 3: like tight end eights. I've got him like tight end eighteen.
Speaker 3: The dude's thirty now, he's missed fourteen games over the
Speaker 3: last two years, and he's had trouble saying healthy throughout
Speaker 3: his career. You know, like people are chasing Darren Waller
Speaker 3: the way people chase Josh Gordon after that twenty thirteen season. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, Waller balled out in twenty nineteen and twenty twenty,
Speaker 3: but like those years are starting to get further in
Speaker 3: the rear view mirror, and I don't know if we're
Speaker 3: going to get that again. And part of the appeal
Speaker 3: is that the Giants have this bizarre amalgam of wide receivers.
Speaker 3: It's like this crazy cass Isaiah Hodgens, Slayton, Jalen high
Speaker 3: At Wandale Robinson, Sterling, Shepard, Jamison Crowder, like I'm.
Speaker 2: From all the same guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like all these clones of these little slot
Speaker 3: cuts and people see Waller, they're gonna, you know, only
Speaker 3: throw to him in the red zone and all this.
Speaker 3: But like we'll see man, you know, like he's in
Speaker 3: a new situation. He's never played with Daniel Jones before.
Speaker 3: Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, But man, I just
Speaker 3: feel like, oh and the other things bogs like if
Speaker 3: people obviously you're looking at a short window of production
Speaker 3: out of Darren Waller if you get him, so his
Speaker 3: production this year is gonna be really important to his value. Dude,
Speaker 3: He's got a murderous schedule this year. Like he's playing
Speaker 3: a lot of the teams that had like you know,
Speaker 3: we're holding tight ends to like three or four points
Speaker 3: a game last year, including a bunch of the teams
Speaker 3: in his division. So like, I'm just not touching this
Speaker 3: guy anywhere.
Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I completely understand this one. He's missed so
Speaker 1: many games, and like you said, you're chasing the dragon.
Speaker 1: You're chasing the twenty nineteen, you're chasing the twenty twenty
Speaker 1: that he had.
Speaker 2: I think those are done.
Speaker 1: You know, I have him, Like you said, ECR for
Speaker 1: Dynasty has him as tight end eleven. I'm below that.
Speaker 1: I got him at thirteen. You said you dropped him
Speaker 1: all the way down to eighteen. But like I could
Speaker 1: easily see taking a conquo for a comet, you know,
Speaker 1: even Schultz, who you're not the biggest fan of. You know,
Speaker 1: I could see taking him. He could be the safety
Speaker 1: blanket for CJ. Stroud in year one. So yeah, I understand.
Speaker 1: But yeah, Waller is probably getting a little bit too much.
Speaker 1: Buzz actually just wrote him up for the Black Book.
Speaker 1: I'm excited what the middle of that offense looks like.
Speaker 1: If they can put you know, Barkley short, Waller over
Speaker 1: the middle and Hiatt deep, that stack could be nice.
Speaker 1: But I mean, how many plays is that a game?
Speaker 1: That's prob four or five per game? So you know
Speaker 1: upside for Waller, But he's aging, and he's missed a
Speaker 1: bunch of games and his body has been through a lot.
Speaker 1: If you've heard anything about his story, so would not
Speaker 1: be surprised to see him end up on the IR again.
Speaker 1: Hopefully not though, But these are the guys that we
Speaker 1: want to trade. Where did we get it right? Where
Speaker 1: did we get it wrong? Please let us know in
Speaker 1: the comments. We appreciate you guys watching and listening. Remember
Speaker 1: you can follow fits at fits underscore FF. What's coming up?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, like if anyone is doing Dynasty's startup drafts,
Speaker 3: I'm doing a serious where I'm doing positional primers at
Speaker 3: every position. So if you want to see how to
Speaker 3: my recommendations on how to attack quarterback, running back, wide receiver,
Speaker 3: and tight end, go over to Fantasypros dot com and
Speaker 3: check that out. And yeah, that's mainly it for me
Speaker 3: these days, Bogs.
Speaker 1: For me, I've got obviously this podcast in this league
Speaker 1: is going to be coming back, I believe next week
Speaker 1: with an episode for you. I'm writing the BlackBook and
Speaker 1: going to submit that pretty soon here for Joe, and
Speaker 1: I will have a little bit of stuff in the
Speaker 1: Dynasty Guide here for Fantasy Pros as well, so please
Speaker 1: check all those out, follow me on the Twitter app
Speaker 1: bog and sports that fits underscore FF, and we will
Speaker 1: see you guys next week.
Speaker 2: Take it easy, everybody. Thanks for listening to the Fantasy
Speaker 2: Pros Dynasty Football podcast. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram
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