Speaker 1: The club expects their golf proth and their assistant pros
Speaker 1: to make sure everything's perfect.
Speaker 2: We want a club row that can play like Tiger,
Speaker 2: teach like butch merchandise like Ralph Lauren, and tell jokes
Speaker 2: like Bob Hope. Right, it is absolutely The problem is
Speaker 2: the amount of pay for the amount of work.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mesh for clubs.
Speaker 3: If you don't make these changes, you're not going to
Speaker 3: get the people you want.
Speaker 1: Your product is going to suffer.
Speaker 3: People are not going to want to come play there,
Speaker 3: They're going to go elsewhere, and you're eventually going to
Speaker 3: go out of business. Is Seth Will helping? He's the
Speaker 3: right guy in the driver's seat, But is there a
Speaker 3: vehicle he can drive that can make it any better?
Speaker 2: People are put on earth to make everybody's lives better, right, Like?
Speaker 2: How can he not want to be surrounded by those people?
Speaker 1: Right then?
Speaker 2: And that's what our PGA professional is. You know, it's
Speaker 2: not perfect, We're not perfect times far from perfect.
Speaker 1: We're moving the needle, making a lot.
Speaker 2: Of progress and I hope people are noticing it. But
Speaker 2: that's not the point either, right. The point is leaving
Speaker 2: the room better. And I'm going to keep fighting to
Speaker 2: do that every day.
Speaker 4: Put another log on the fire. Nobody here is to
Speaker 4: get the time.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the fire pit with Matt Janella.
Speaker 3: We're back and not so fresh off what I would
Speaker 3: consider a wonky US Open. Congrats to Wynd and Clark
Speaker 3: for what he pulled off. My condolences to Ricky and
Speaker 3: Rory for missing yet another opportunity to win a big one.
Speaker 3: As for Lacc, I've said my piece on Twitter. I
Speaker 3: felt compelled to know more about the club and possibly
Speaker 3: play the course before watching all week the way it
Speaker 3: was presented, what we heard about the rules and the membership,
Speaker 3: small crowds, the commandeering of tickets which led to that
Speaker 3: lack of volume and energy. It was all a bit
Speaker 3: of a turn off for me, but for a lot.
Speaker 3: More on the US Open stories and podcasts by my
Speaker 3: colleagues Alan Schipnook and Michael Bamberger go to Firepicollective dot com.
Speaker 3: As for this week, the women are at Baltis Rawl
Speaker 3: for the KPMG Women's PGA Championship. A perfect time to
Speaker 3: wrap up this series on the club pro crisis, especially
Speaker 3: considering my guest is Susie Whaley who in twenty eighteen,
Speaker 3: became the first female president of the PGA of America,
Speaker 3: a position she held for two years. Whaley is a
Speaker 3: dual member of the PGA of America and LPGA Teaching
Speaker 3: and Club Professional Division. She was an LPGA Tour member
Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety and nineteen ninety three. She is a
Speaker 3: two time Connecticut PGA Teacher of the Year. She's a
Speaker 3: three time Connecticut Women's Open Champion, and in two thousand
Speaker 3: and three, at the Greater Hertford Open, she became the
Speaker 3: first woman since Babes Ziharius in nineteen forty five to
Speaker 3: qualify for APGA Tour event. A nineteen eighty nine graduate
Speaker 3: of the University of North Carolina with the degree in economics.
Speaker 3: In twenty fifteen, Whaley received the Margodideck Award from the
Speaker 3: WNBA's Connecticut son for her ability to engage, challenge, and
Speaker 3: inspire while serving as a role model. In twenty sixteen,
Speaker 3: she was inducted into the Greater Syracuse Sports Hall of Fame,
Speaker 3: and in twenty seventeen, she was honored with the Betsy
Speaker 3: Rawls Award from the American Junior Golf Association for her service, dedication,
Speaker 3: and contributions to women's golf. Whaley's husband, Bill is also
Speaker 3: a PGA member and they have two daughters, Jennifer and Kelly.
Speaker 3: Before we get to my uninterrupted conversation with Susie, I
Speaker 3: want to thank Dormy Workshop, my sponsor of this podcast.
Speaker 3: Dormy Workshop is an incredible golf family business based in Halifax,
Speaker 3: Nova Scotia, where all they do is make quality leather
Speaker 3: headcovers and accessories. I found the Bishop Brothers at the
Speaker 3: PGA Merchandise Show almost ten years ago. I've been promoting
Speaker 3: their people and products ever since. Go to Dormy Workshop
Speaker 3: dot com and use promo code fire Pit fifteen for
Speaker 3: fifteen percent off your next purchase. Or go to the
Speaker 3: Pit shop at Firepitcollective dot com and order one of
Speaker 3: our Dormy headcovers or stash bags. And now Susie Wailey
Speaker 3: and the conversation we had in April, what makes a
Speaker 3: good club pro looky?
Speaker 1: There's twenty nine thousand of us, right, and I always
Speaker 1: think of us as PGA professionals, which is just a
Speaker 1: anacular right because many of those PGA professionals don't actually
Speaker 1: work at a club. Some of them work for manufacturers,
Speaker 1: some of them work in the media. Some of them
Speaker 1: work as engineers, some of them work is across the board.
Speaker 1: So when you're talking about a club professional, I would
Speaker 1: say somebody who's actually physically going day in and day
Speaker 1: out to a facility that has a area where you
Speaker 1: check in to go play golf. You know, that's what
Speaker 1: I consider a club professional. And I think what makes
Speaker 1: a great golf professional is somebody who knows their customers,
Speaker 1: somebody who has a welcoming and inclusive environment that people
Speaker 1: want to return to. And I think when you accomplish
Speaker 1: that with any customer, you are being successful. What are
Speaker 1: the traits that great club protests have. They're diligent, they're loyal,
Speaker 1: they're service hearted, they're task oriented people, very detail oriented.
Speaker 1: They're good players. They wouldn't be a PGA professional if
Speaker 1: they weren't a good player. They have to pass the
Speaker 1: pat They're typically friendly, high energy, and work extremely long
Speaker 1: hours without complaint. And so you know, as you look
Speaker 1: at club professionals around the country and you think of
Speaker 1: the jobs that they're doing, most of us are incredibly
Speaker 1: passionate about golf. We love the game, or we wouldn't
Speaker 1: be doing what we're doing. We probably grew up most
Speaker 1: often in the game, but I can't speak for all.
Speaker 1: Some of them have come in later in life as
Speaker 1: a second career. But I've worked at golf courses since
Speaker 1: I was fourteen years old, and I just, I truly
Speaker 1: can't imagine. I was going to go to law school
Speaker 1: out of college, thought that was going to be my path,
Speaker 1: ended up going to tour school. Told my parents, you know,
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to go to law school. I'm
Speaker 1: going to go to tour school. Took a right turn and
Speaker 1: actually got on tour somehow made it through your school,
Speaker 1: and it changed my life forever. But when I think
Speaker 1: about it, and I have to think I relate to
Speaker 1: so many others like me. I don't want to talk
Speaker 1: for them. But I can't imagine being inside. I can't
Speaker 1: imagine being behind a desk. I love being outside. I
Speaker 1: love people. I love interacting on a day to day
Speaker 1: with people. I love people who love golf, even if
Speaker 1: they're terrible at it, you know, I mean, it's just
Speaker 1: for me. It gives me great joy. So I also
Speaker 1: think really good club professionals are people who like what
Speaker 1: they do.
Speaker 3: The word crisis as it relates to club pros meaning
Speaker 3: trying to make sure there's a feeder system of people
Speaker 3: who are willing to do this job for the hours
Speaker 3: it requires, for the amount of pay. That is kind
Speaker 3: of is kind of the model right now, would you
Speaker 3: say there is you know that word crisis? Is that accurate?
Speaker 3: What's your perspective on sort of the state of this
Speaker 3: industry as it relates to kind of making sure we
Speaker 3: have people that are willing to kind of keep coming
Speaker 3: and keep taking these positions and roles and keep being successful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now, I wouldn't call it crisis. So, you know,
Speaker 1: I think that certainly what we're in is the time
Speaker 1: that nobody else has ever experienced. Right, So, we had
Speaker 1: this pandemic and I certainly didn't think I would ever
Speaker 1: live through a pandemic. I'm sure most people didn't. And
Speaker 1: what it turned into was when the pandemic hit, we
Speaker 1: had literally twenty nine thy thousand people out of work.
Speaker 1: I happen to be president of the association at the time.
Speaker 1: When you get the call that work is over, everybody
Speaker 1: go home and then the first thing you think of is,
Speaker 1: you know, calling your CEO and your board and saying, okay,
Speaker 1: we had to pivot as quickly as possible, how we're
Speaker 1: going to help our PGA professionals. So that a crisis
Speaker 1: one hundred percent because we had people out of work
Speaker 1: and at the time there was no subsidies from the government.
Speaker 1: We knew golf courses were closing instantaneously. We knew jobs
Speaker 1: were at jeopardy if the manufacturers couldn't produce and couldn't work.
Speaker 1: We didn't have people with equipment. So we pivoted from
Speaker 1: every one of our strategies right to how do we
Speaker 1: help our membership. That's who we are, that's what we do,
Speaker 1: that's why we're in association, and what do we need?
Speaker 1: What do we do? First? And then secondly was how
Speaker 1: do we get golf courses open as quickly as possible
Speaker 1: and how do we convince government and legislature that we
Speaker 1: can do it in a responsible way and keep people safe.
Speaker 1: And we couldn't promise that, but we could promise that
Speaker 1: we could have PGA professionals literally delivering facilities in a
Speaker 1: responsible manner as they self fit with the CDC. That
Speaker 1: took an enormous, herculean effort to get golf courses back
Speaker 1: open and to convince cities, states and counties to do it.
Speaker 1: Because you might have one county that was twenty miles
Speaker 1: away from another, one's open and one's not. And so
Speaker 1: when we finally wrapped our arms around that, alongside the
Speaker 1: other allies, we certainly didn't do it by ourself. We
Speaker 1: had everybody in world Washington when we had the opportunity
Speaker 1: to get people back to work. Alongside it being really
Speaker 1: thankful for the subsidies that were delivered to anybody that
Speaker 1: was out of work. We also started a golf relief fund,
Speaker 1: and we I feel, I can't you know, there were
Speaker 1: certainly were people who suffered through this. So I don't
Speaker 1: want to sound like we helped everybody, but we averted
Speaker 1: a crisis for our membership, which I'm proud to have
Speaker 1: been a part of. But again it was a group
Speaker 1: effort to do that. I think what occurred then, to
Speaker 1: your point from earlier is people started falling in love
Speaker 1: with golf. Those that played golf and always loved to
Speaker 1: just play more. Those that had left it were like, well, gosh,
Speaker 1: I got to get outside, I got to go do something,
Speaker 1: you know what, Let's dust off the clubs and get
Speaker 1: back to it. Maybe they left because of illness or
Speaker 1: family or whatever. Child responsibilities, job changes, and then we
Speaker 1: had people who've never played the game say, well, gosh,
Speaker 1: at least we can go through that, you know, let's
Speaker 1: give that a try, and the golf just flat exploded.
Speaker 1: We had more juniors. We still have more juniors than
Speaker 1: we've ever had. I think the last research that came
Speaker 1: out by the National Golf Foundation a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 1: and I I'd be off on my weeks. But now
Speaker 1: we have actually more off course golfers than we even
Speaker 1: have on course golfers, which is twenty six point five million,
Speaker 1: So we have double plus that in off course. So
Speaker 1: golf is just in an unbelievable place right now, where
Speaker 1: t sheets are full, people are happy, and families are
Speaker 1: playing the game like we've always wanted forever. I think
Speaker 1: where things got to see you and where some articles
Speaker 1: have shared what's happening is while facilities have less team,
Speaker 1: meaning less people on the ground, they are working double
Speaker 1: hours and during COVID, I think most of our professionals
Speaker 1: willingly did that. We understood that we were giving people
Speaker 1: a rest bit and I remember, like most of us
Speaker 1: really want to give back to our communities. That's why
Speaker 1: we do what we do. And we felt really strongly
Speaker 1: that we were doing that in an unbelievable way, and
Speaker 1: I think at home feeling really good about ourselves, Like
Speaker 1: we got to see people every day, which I think
Speaker 1: was a gift for us and for our mental health.
Speaker 1: But we also got to see people getting outside and
Speaker 1: enjoying it and maybe if we get a little a
Speaker 1: little bit of joy in their day during this incredibly
Speaker 1: scary time, we were doing the right thing. But what
Speaker 1: that turned into was a perception that we were able
Speaker 1: to keep those hours going, that we could work very
Speaker 1: long hours, seven days a week, with smaller teams and
Speaker 1: with the same amount of club participants, if not more
Speaker 1: than we had had prior, and so it turned into
Speaker 1: this really enormous balance that was getting out of balance crisis.
Speaker 1: I would say no, but it's taken us still, And
Speaker 1: I say that loosely us being PGA professionals and leadership
Speaker 1: to educate boards, to educate facilities, to educate municipalities, to
Speaker 1: educate consumers as to what's going on. And while revenues
Speaker 1: are increasing at facilities because of Golf's participation dramatically, many
Speaker 1: facilities are using those revenue increases for capital expensu sures
Speaker 1: and I happen to believe that your human capital is
Speaker 1: your best capital. So where I see an issue is,
Speaker 1: all right, let's help build these teams back, Let's help
Speaker 1: compensate the PGA professionals that are in these seats that
Speaker 1: are delivering these opportunities, and let's use some of the
Speaker 1: revenues that we've actually been enhanced by to do that.
Speaker 1: And you take care of your human capital, I think
Speaker 1: your business runs better.
Speaker 3: There is like this work life balance an awareness issue COVID,
Speaker 3: you know, demand and at the end of the day
Speaker 3: that you guys are an association, but you're not a union, right,
Speaker 3: so it's like it's still pretty splintered. So to fix
Speaker 3: all of that takes time and communication. Is that affair assessment?
Speaker 1: I think it does, and it does take education. It
Speaker 1: just takes reminding people, you know. I think what was
Speaker 1: if there was something good about COVID was certainly golf's surge,
Speaker 1: but also the fact that people were able to be
Speaker 1: home with their families more and we were home with
Speaker 1: our families less far less, And I just think when
Speaker 1: people think about it for a second, and so let's
Speaker 1: say your golf professional isn't there on a Friday morning.
Speaker 1: What would happen typically is that people would say, where
Speaker 1: were you? You know, you weren't even here on Friday,
Speaker 1: and you're thinking to yourself, oh my gosh, I've been
Speaker 1: here the last sixty eight days in a row and
Speaker 1: I needed to, you know, go home and go to
Speaker 1: a doctor's appointment, or or I needed to handle something
Speaker 1: in my you know, my family's life. But it wasn't.
Speaker 1: I don't I really believe this. It wasn't. It's not
Speaker 1: an intentional aggression against what we do or what we're doing.
Speaker 1: It just became a habit for consumers to always have
Speaker 1: that availability, and the one place they could go for
Speaker 1: that sanctuary was their golf facility. And that's what we've
Speaker 1: always wanted. We've always wanted people to feel like this
Speaker 1: was their community. We want you to feel like this
Speaker 1: is a safe place, your home. We want you to
Speaker 1: be there, and I want to be there for you.
Speaker 1: But what got lost in the mix was we we
Speaker 1: trained the golf world that we were going to be
Speaker 1: there twenty four to seven. And I just think when
Speaker 1: you explain it to people in a way like that,
Speaker 1: whether it's your board of directors, your managers, your town managers,
Speaker 1: your owner, and you say, you know, look, I love
Speaker 1: what I do and I'm passionate about what I do,
Speaker 1: but I also have other things in my life that
Speaker 1: I have to handle so I can be better for
Speaker 1: you on the property. And here's the following. And I
Speaker 1: think what we're trying to do, and the Association is
Speaker 1: trying to do, is educate the leadership at clubs, to
Speaker 1: educate municipalities. We're not complaining, we are not whining about it,
Speaker 1: and I mean that sincerely. It's just let's just talk
Speaker 1: about what is possible for PGA professional to actually be
Speaker 1: the best PJA professional that can be at your facility.
Speaker 1: And let's make sure we're balancing not with what we
Speaker 1: know we can and can't do.
Speaker 3: We know there's massive growth as it relates to women
Speaker 3: coming to the game playing the game. Is that also translating?
Speaker 3: Is it too soon to understand if that's going to
Speaker 3: also result in a surge in women's leadership roles within
Speaker 3: the game as it relates to club pros and positions
Speaker 3: of impact beyond people like yourself.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I'm excited to see the growth in play.
Speaker 1: So women's play is dramatically at women the amount of
Speaker 1: beginners that are learning the game, I think close to
Speaker 1: I don't know my numbers correct, but sober fifty percent
Speaker 1: of them are women. And what's really exciting is in
Speaker 1: the junior space, thirty five percent are girls. So when
Speaker 1: you think about all that data, thirty five percent certainly
Speaker 1: not being where we'd like it to be. Okay, I
Speaker 1: want it a fifty one. Okay, let's just.
Speaker 3: I want to be one up golf.
Speaker 1: I'm at. Yeah, that's where I'm editor. And but you know,
Speaker 1: you think about that for where we used to be
Speaker 1: in twenty ten, right, I mean, we're talking about massive growth,
Speaker 1: and that's exciting. Ten years from now, I think golf
Speaker 1: will look extremely different than it does today because of
Speaker 1: that junior growth and because of new growth amongst women,
Speaker 1: I think amongst our PGA professionals and LPGA professionals. So
Speaker 1: there's about and again don't quote me on these numbers,
Speaker 1: there's about two thousand LPGA professionals. But that's global. There
Speaker 1: are some in Asia as well. I'm a dual member.
Speaker 1: I'm a member of the LPGA and I'm a member
Speaker 1: of the PGA of America. We're about we're getting we're
Speaker 1: nearing five percent in the PGA of America. So you
Speaker 1: think about five percent, and that's that's abysmal, right. So
Speaker 1: you know, we've put in places intentional and actionable steps
Speaker 1: to try to increase those numbers and to showcase what
Speaker 1: golf is all about. We're an eighty six billion dollar
Speaker 1: industry and there are many facets of this industry that
Speaker 1: women can be a part of. I highlighted an engineer
Speaker 1: who female engineer, the stealth driver for Taylor me. And
Speaker 1: you know, I think as we think about rules in
Speaker 1: golf for women, I think, oftentimes and again not unintentional,
Speaker 1: but people just think of us as coaches, right, they
Speaker 1: think of women, they think, oh that you must teach
Speaker 1: the juniors, right, And I love teaching the juniors. I
Speaker 1: love teaching women. I love teaching men. I am a
Speaker 1: coach at heart. I love it. But not all women
Speaker 1: want to coach. Women want to be owners and operators
Speaker 1: and directors of golf and tournament operators and rules officials
Speaker 1: and run manufacturing companies, which they are doing. But we
Speaker 1: don't hear about it very often. And so I do
Speaker 1: believe it, if you could see it, you can be it.
Speaker 1: And I think as we showcase. My Journey app just
Speaker 1: came out, which is really cool that we're using it
Speaker 1: at the PGA of America. I'm one of the mentors
Speaker 1: on it, so are multiple other women in golf. And
Speaker 1: I think when people can see different avenues and different tracks,
Speaker 1: we will have an opportunity to gain more attraction amongst
Speaker 1: women instead of them just thinking their pigeonholed into one
Speaker 1: particular entity of the golf business. They want to be
Speaker 1: a coach. We have every platform possible to allow them
Speaker 1: to do that, but I think we have to think
Speaker 1: about it in a different way and sort of clubs.
Speaker 1: You know, men are still the employers at most clubs fact,
Speaker 1: and people typically hire who they look like, right, And
Speaker 1: we need more women promoted, We need more women elevated,
Speaker 1: and we need more clubs to think about women running
Speaker 1: their facilities, not just as general managers, but in head
Speaker 1: golf professionals, positions and directors of golf. That's not a
Speaker 1: lot we have some You know, if some directors and
Speaker 1: instructions at high end clubs join a cos at Marion,
Speaker 1: Kathy Kim's at Baltimore and we were you know, little
Speaker 1: by little you're starting to see those opportunities happen. We
Speaker 1: have gms that are females, but it's woefully, woefully and
Speaker 1: painfully behind. So we put in recruiting efforts at the
Speaker 1: PGA of America, at the collegiate level where we're showcasing
Speaker 1: to these young women. Look, if you choose not to play,
Speaker 1: we encourage you to. But if you choose not to
Speaker 1: play and use that as your career, we would love
Speaker 1: to have you as a part of our industry and
Speaker 1: let us share with you some of the opportunities that exist.
Speaker 1: And it's going to take us time. It's going to
Speaker 1: take us time to grow that, but we're on it.
Speaker 1: I know the leadership now, I'm not a part of
Speaker 1: that now, but I know the leadership now is committed
Speaker 1: to that. And we started programs like PGA Lead to
Speaker 1: help women in governance. So now we have presidents of
Speaker 1: sections that are women, we have boards of directors that
Speaker 1: are women in PGA of America governance. I'm proud of that,
Speaker 1: but we've got a long way to go.
Speaker 3: Seth waw I say his name and his commitment to
Speaker 3: the PGA of America, to the membership to trying to
Speaker 3: you know, to trying to advance the ball, leave the
Speaker 3: world better than he found it, so to speak, because
Speaker 3: it relates to this particular segment of golf. What are
Speaker 3: your thoughts on him and the impact he's.
Speaker 1: Had Well, A cherish my time with Seth A cherish
Speaker 1: working with him. I was so fortunate to have somebody
Speaker 1: with his kind of experience in the seat when the
Speaker 1: pandemic hit, somebody that was incredibly calm and steady at
Speaker 1: the helm, that could navigate it and be a really
Speaker 1: agile leader. I also think Seth truly wants to help
Speaker 1: PGA professionals in a way that's authentic and believes in
Speaker 1: their value and respects what we do. And I think
Speaker 1: as a leader, that's what you need to ask for.
Speaker 1: You need to ask for somebody who's actually leading people
Speaker 1: that they respect. And I've never felt, with Seth in
Speaker 1: the room that being a golf professional was something I
Speaker 1: shouldn't be proud of, and I think that's made an
Speaker 1: enormous difference in what he's been able to accomplish. He
Speaker 1: has unbelievable connections within the game. We all know that.
Speaker 1: I think when you're thinking about a pandemic and hosting
Speaker 1: a PGA championship, during a pandemic and making a phone
Speaker 1: call to the PGA tour to change dates to help
Speaker 1: us manage that maneuver that get a new data on
Speaker 1: the calendar. Those things don't happen without relationships and really
Speaker 1: strong relationships. When you think about the Ryder Cup and
Speaker 1: what we had to do to make that be an
Speaker 1: event still, because remember we had to move it, and
Speaker 1: that's not that easy to do in a tour calendar
Speaker 1: year and a tour schedule alongside a President's Cup and people,
Speaker 1: I don't know that people need to understand that, but
Speaker 1: that was again a herculean effort by all involved to
Speaker 1: make sure we still had a Ryder Cup. And the
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup really truly is such a huge and an
Speaker 1: enormous part of our association because it helps fund education, employment,
Speaker 1: everything we do for our members. We need that event
Speaker 1: and seth in my opinion, and our board and our
Speaker 1: staff alongside of everybody, all of our partners, any of
Speaker 1: our worldwide partners are domestic partner, all of those had
Speaker 1: to be talked to as we were trying to navigate
Speaker 1: these two enormous championships for our membership. So when you
Speaker 1: think about talking to a Cadillac or a BMW. You
Speaker 1: think about, Okay, what do they think? Are they just
Speaker 1: going to pull? Can they hang in there with us?
Speaker 1: Can we be great partners and extend for three more years?
Speaker 1: All of those conversations had by our teams are why
Speaker 1: we are an association that's stronger, in my opinion, and
Speaker 1: even better today, and that's thanks to Seth and the
Speaker 1: team he's put together and our board who literally was
Speaker 1: a part of that every day.
Speaker 3: This idea of unionizing in some way, shape or form,
Speaker 3: that is that just really unrealistic and not worth a
Speaker 3: lot of time or energy, you know, some of these
Speaker 3: other things that you have mentioned, programs, incentivizing awareness, education, information, unionizing.
Speaker 3: You know, I've asked pretty much, Buddy, I've interviewed as
Speaker 3: a way of kind of wrapping your arms around the industry,
Speaker 3: and but it just but it doesn't seem like it's
Speaker 3: even remotely possible to me. I don't know.
Speaker 1: You yeah, I don't think it is. But I rarely
Speaker 1: say things like that because I think anything is possible,
Speaker 1: you know, if you kind of figure it out. So
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not going to say it's not possible.
Speaker 1: I'm just going to say that I don't think it
Speaker 1: would be fortuitous for our for our members. I don't
Speaker 1: think it would be the right play. But that's my
Speaker 1: personal opinion. That's not a governance opinion of the PGA
Speaker 1: of America's opinion. I know, I'm a huge believer in
Speaker 1: people being able to capitalize on their strengths and on
Speaker 1: what they do best. And I think when you put
Speaker 1: people into a box of a certain requirement and a
Speaker 1: certain amount of hours, I think I think you maybe
Speaker 1: stifle people. And I think we have a lot of
Speaker 1: incredibly talented golf professionals who are in multiple lanes, and
Speaker 1: then we have golf professionals who on the same lane
Speaker 1: their whole career and love it. And there's nothing wrong
Speaker 1: with either space, right, But I would want to I
Speaker 1: would want facilities and professionals to be able to grow
Speaker 1: and do it in a sense that they both felt
Speaker 1: productive doing it without being hampered by rules and regulations
Speaker 1: that we impost. That's ja American post.
Speaker 3: Your energy and passion and the way you articulate yourself
Speaker 3: and you know you you said you have to see
Speaker 3: it before you know. If you see it, you can
Speaker 3: feel like you can be it. I mean you must
Speaker 3: I mean, you're timing your role as president during that
Speaker 3: time working with people like Seth managing that you know
Speaker 3: your You've got platforms, You've got relationships. I mean you
Speaker 3: you really have a full set of fourteen clubs that
Speaker 3: you can hit to make a difference. Does it feel
Speaker 3: like the stars have aligned for you, specifically, Susie Whaley
Speaker 3: to actually really have the kind of impact that you
Speaker 3: I've already have and are going to continue to. I mean,
Speaker 3: you seem like you are relentlessly in pursuit of making
Speaker 3: a difference.
Speaker 1: Well, so I appreciate that very much. I thought about
Speaker 1: that fourteen clubs. I don't know, I feel like maybe
Speaker 1: half a set. I don't know how to go straight
Speaker 1: to fourteen. I think you always have something to learn,
Speaker 1: and there's no way you got it all down right.
Speaker 1: I Mean, every time I go to a teaching some
Speaker 1: and I think I got it down, I'm like, heck, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know what I'm doing. I can teach anybody. And
Speaker 1: I go to teaching some and I get in the car,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I know absolutely nothing. I have learned nothing
Speaker 1: in the thirty years that I have taught golf, and
Speaker 1: I have to think about it. Like for another week.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm constantly digging classes. I you know, I
Speaker 1: just subscribe to I hang out with people that are
Speaker 1: just much smarter than I am, right, And and that's
Speaker 1: like the way to be successful. It doesn't mean I
Speaker 1: don't learn and try to be smart, but I try
Speaker 1: to find people in my world who teach me something,
Speaker 1: who who absolutely have way more knowledge than I do
Speaker 1: in the space. And my time spent with the PGA
Speaker 1: of America as a leader, I can stay absolutely it
Speaker 1: helped me become a better leader. And you know, in
Speaker 1: the beginning, you just you know, you think you know
Speaker 1: what you're doing, and then you realize how many other
Speaker 1: micro little things need to be managed and handled, and
Speaker 1: how to integrate with stuff, and then how to make
Speaker 1: sure you're telling your constituency and communicating to them on
Speaker 1: a basis that they feel part of it. And there
Speaker 1: were times I didn't do that well, and there were
Speaker 1: times where I did do that well. And I think
Speaker 1: from that you learn, like what you just said in
Speaker 1: the beginning, where oh gosh, I made this air. This
Speaker 1: is what I said, and that certainly wasn't intentional. I
Speaker 1: think every leader at anybody that's out in public that
Speaker 1: happens to I think, I think what you have to
Speaker 1: turn to is okay, and it sounds so cliche, but like,
Speaker 1: all right, let's crew that up. You know, what do
Speaker 1: we learn from it? What did I miss? How did
Speaker 1: I miss it? And how did I make sure I
Speaker 1: don't miss it again? And then I think, to the
Speaker 1: other side of that is when I say only have
Speaker 1: a half a set. You know, I really feel like
Speaker 1: I'm in the beginning of my career. And I know
Speaker 1: that sounds really strating, but I feel like I'm in
Speaker 1: the beginning of my career because I think I'm at
Speaker 1: a point in my life and my experiences of my
Speaker 1: age where I've had it. I've had it, and I
Speaker 1: have a platform to talk about it in a respectful way.
Speaker 1: Understanding the history of the game and the culture of
Speaker 1: the game. You know, I get it. I get where
Speaker 1: we are today, and I'm proud of the progress that's
Speaker 1: been made in golf and where we're headed. I'm proud
Speaker 1: of the fact that we are super popular, but I
Speaker 1: want to know where the heck we're going. I want
Speaker 1: to know how we're going to do it better, and
Speaker 1: I want to be a part of that. Conversation. And
Speaker 1: so when you say do I have fourteen? I don't
Speaker 1: feel like I've even started. And I'm ready. I'm ready
Speaker 1: for that next challenge.
Speaker 3: When you're saying all that, are you are you directly
Speaker 3: referring to women? Are you referring to women in golf?
Speaker 3: Are you referring to women in golf? Or are you
Speaker 3: referring to PGA you know, PGA pros. Are you like
Speaker 3: or is it kind of all of it like you want?
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, you just forgot the media. That is the
Speaker 1: bucket in there too. And again, I look at this,
Speaker 1: it's not a it's not a it's something that I'm
Speaker 1: passionate about. It's not something that I'm saying negatively. It's
Speaker 1: just I think, you know, I think a lot of
Speaker 1: us are just harder saying we're grateful for the opportunity,
Speaker 1: and yeah, that's where women come in.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: I'm done with hearing about why don't more people watch
Speaker 1: the LPGA? Well, where are we supposed to watch them?
Speaker 1: You know? Where are they? Where are we seeing them?
Speaker 1: I mean, if you look in the paper, I won't
Speaker 1: if they're in it. If you look in any digital publication,
Speaker 1: not the paper, That's how all day, any digital publication, right,
Speaker 1: any any Twitter feed? I mean, does anybody know who
Speaker 1: won the last three LPGA? Like, like honestly likes it's
Speaker 1: It's actually appalling to me. And I don't think it's
Speaker 1: necessarily intentional. I just think it's our culture in the
Speaker 1: game that needs to be changed. When people talk about
Speaker 1: the game, they talk about the professional men's game. Right.
Speaker 1: When I have conversations with my juniors, I always say,
Speaker 1: who's your favorite female player?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: My juniors now know that, Right, there's so many young
Speaker 1: girls playing and so many boys now watching women's golf.
Speaker 1: But I don't understand why we're not seeing it more.
Speaker 1: And why is only five percent of media publications on
Speaker 1: women's sports in general? Why is that? That's just a
Speaker 1: question right for people? That Okay, that's where I get
Speaker 1: all the king on Twitter, Like people will write me
Speaker 1: back a thousand reasons why right, but none of them
Speaker 1: make any sense? Like that doesn't mean make sense just
Speaker 1: because you like to watch men's Okay, good for you,
Speaker 1: glad to watch men's sports. But I watch men's sports
Speaker 1: and one in sports and some of these different women,
Speaker 1: like women need to watch women's sports. This isn't all
Speaker 1: on men, right, we all we all just need to
Speaker 1: participate in it. And so I think when you ask
Speaker 1: me what is that all about, you know, it's about
Speaker 1: making sure that the next generation has it better than
Speaker 1: we have. Right. The next generation is that to fight
Speaker 1: so hard. And I'm here to tell you that golf
Speaker 1: women have to fight really hard. And there is space
Speaker 1: for women, and there is space for junior girls in golf.
Speaker 1: We shouldn't have to fight this hard.
Speaker 3: I'm pumped up, I'm fired up. I want to go
Speaker 3: through a wall for you and for everybody behind you.
Speaker 3: I'm just like, I just I really wow. I had
Speaker 3: done enough things at Golf Channel, at the Golf Industry
Speaker 3: Show in which I realized there was a crisis around
Speaker 3: the agronome of the game. Getting young people to show
Speaker 3: up early, work long hours, to tend to the golf
Speaker 3: course itself is a problem. There's not you know, they're
Speaker 3: closing or Granaby programs there, They're having kids, don't work
Speaker 3: that many hours for that kind of pay. They're like,
Speaker 3: I'll do something. I'll put you know, I'll be a
Speaker 3: gamer whatever it is. And then I just wasn't aware
Speaker 3: that it also sort of relays to the club Pro
Speaker 3: World or the PGA Pro also that young people were like,
Speaker 3: wait a minute, that many hours for that kind of pay.
Speaker 3: I like golf, but I just met somebody at my
Speaker 3: club that's now offered me a job in their law firm,
Speaker 3: and I'm going to go back to lawsuit, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean, Like, we got to keep good people
Speaker 3: in this industry that seemed to be at the heart
Speaker 3: of kind of this matter that I was getting into.
Speaker 3: You know, when I started reporting, it was like, Wow,
Speaker 3: I get that. I didn't realize that also related to
Speaker 3: managing clubs and not just managing the courses. So that
Speaker 3: was my hole in my glove. And now I've know
Speaker 3: a lot more and I'll continue to learn and share
Speaker 3: what I learned.
Speaker 1: That's it so well. I love it. Anything you can
Speaker 1: do that to support the effort is great and I
Speaker 1: appreciate the time and I really do. I think it's amazing.
Speaker 1: And the more we can educate and make aware, I mean,
Speaker 1: then we can help for some change.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's going to happen. And I think the
Speaker 3: good news is it's like, hey, we're in the middle
Speaker 3: of the drought, but guess what, we got a lot
Speaker 3: of rain coming, Like you know, there is this you know,
Speaker 3: you talked about an abysmal number as it relates to
Speaker 3: women in the in the industry at five percent. But
Speaker 3: more women, more women are playing, more girls are playing
Speaker 3: there for there's it's only natural to know. And then
Speaker 3: you have someone like you and others who are in
Speaker 3: these roles, leadership roles and have platforms that are going
Speaker 3: to continue to make sure that you know these This
Speaker 3: mentorship happens where it's like, hey, let me help you
Speaker 3: be who you want to be in this industry that
Speaker 3: you need that too. You need you to get people
Speaker 3: who want to be you right to your point, so
Speaker 3: right right, and we're getting there.
Speaker 1: We're getting there. I mean, I'm really proud of the
Speaker 1: work that's been put in. I just there's it's not enough.
Speaker 3: I love I love it. Well, God's read Susie Whaley
Speaker 3: and keep going and I can't wait to continue to
Speaker 3: observe and report on the progress.
Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate it, appreciate the time.
Speaker 3: Well that's it for now. At least I've already heard
Speaker 3: from countless PGA pros and club pros around the country
Speaker 3: offering their thoughts on how and why things need to change.
Speaker 3: Some more positive than others. The plan is to revisit
Speaker 3: this in a few weeks with a wrap up podcast
Speaker 3: and another wave of voices and perspectives based on what
Speaker 3: has been said throughout this series. If you want to
Speaker 3: be one of those voices, I can be reached on
Speaker 3: my social channels or at Matt Janella at gmail dot com.
Speaker 3: Thanks again to Susie Whaley, Seth Waugh, Chandler Withington, Butch Harmon,
Speaker 3: Shane Ryan, Rick Riley, Bryan Souley, Jack Davis, Robin's Manly,
Speaker 3: Cody Sinkler, Josh Doxeter Kieran Kenwar, Connor Evers, and Brad
Speaker 3: Sniper for their thoughts and perspectives on this industry. And
Speaker 3: to Jake Muldowney, the producer of the fire Pit podcast.
Speaker 3: And thanks to you for listening and for your love
Speaker 3: of the game that, more than anything, continues to be
Speaker 3: the common denominator here. It's a sport that's easy to hate,
Speaker 3: swing to swing, but also so easy to love. Round
Speaker 3: a round course to course, friend to friend, memory to memory,
Speaker 3: year to year that seems clear. And on that note,
Speaker 3: the full fire Pit Anthem written and performed by Joe Horowitz,
Speaker 3: a friend and pro in the Mets section, who might
Speaker 3: be just as good with the guitar and Mike as
Speaker 3: he is with a bag of clubs. The song, which
Speaker 3: is called The Story, was produced by Jakir King, a
Speaker 3: Grammy Award winning friend in Nashville who loves golf as
Speaker 3: much as we all do.
Speaker 4: Put another log on the fire. Nobody here is get
Speaker 4: the time.