Speaker 1: Welcome to the fire Pit. Hi. I'm Less Garland, founder
Speaker 1: of MTV Music Television and a proud Link Soul ambassador.
Speaker 1: As a listener of the fire Pit with Matt Jenella,
Speaker 1: go to link Soul dot com and use promo code
Speaker 1: Matty m A T T y G to enjoy a
Speaker 1: discount on your next Link Soul order. In the meantime,
Speaker 1: make par war. And while you're at it, do you
Speaker 1: mind throwing another log on the fire It's story time.
Speaker 1: So if you remember the Pennant Race, it was the Braise.
Speaker 1: The giants went down to the last day each one
Speaker 1: like a d plus games. As Giants were ending the
Speaker 1: last day of the season, they were playing in l A,
Speaker 1: you know, trying to win the pen in. So I
Speaker 1: went to the game and I'm sitting the stands Jazz
Speaker 1: already losing like pace, like two home runs and says head,
Speaker 1: but and I love, oh god, it's two o'clock. You know,
Speaker 1: it's five o'clock in New York. And this is pre
Speaker 1: cell phone. I'm running around Dodgers. Dad, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: find a working pay phone. They're all busted, like like
Speaker 1: six phones in a row, Like I couldn't and I'm
Speaker 1: freaking out, and so I finally find one and I
Speaker 1: dial you know, I have my mom's like calling card
Speaker 1: number or whatever, and I'm just I'm not even into
Speaker 1: I just want to get back to the baseball game
Speaker 1: because I know that Joan is going to answer, and
Speaker 1: I just like it's just a formality. So I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm just listening to the game. You know, we're trying
Speaker 1: to trying to watch the TV and mobile answers. It
Speaker 1: was like Mark molloy and I said, what are you
Speaker 1: doing this summer there? I said, when you come and
Speaker 1: work for us, there's an intern they call me next
Speaker 1: week you will talk details. It was like it was
Speaker 1: like a ninth second phone call on a pay phone
Speaker 1: in Dodger Stadium and I'm standing there like my life
Speaker 1: just changed. I don't even know what what just happened.
Speaker 1: We don't know the logo nobuddy, welcome back. I'm Matt
Speaker 1: Janella and I'm pretty excited about this episode of the
Speaker 1: fire Pit. After last week's industry roundtable in the state
Speaker 1: of the Game in the midst of this global pandemic,
Speaker 1: We're back to telling a story. But before we get started,
Speaker 1: I want to thank everyone who donated auction items, and
Speaker 1: everyone who bid on those items for their generosity and support.
Speaker 1: Together we raised over seventeen thousand dollars for Feeding America,
Speaker 1: the nation's largest domestic hunger relief organization. The game of
Speaker 1: golf never ceases to amaze me. And then there's Alan Schipnuk,
Speaker 1: who's amazing in his own right. The story is about
Speaker 1: how Alan got the job at Pebble Beach as a kid,
Speaker 1: then Sports Illustrated as a kid, and how he chased
Speaker 1: down Ken Griffey Jr. To write what would be the
Speaker 1: first of his twenty plus s I cover stories. I
Speaker 1: started at Sports Illustrated as in turn In and as
Speaker 1: You're here today. Alan started as an intern in Two
Speaker 1: years later in at the age of twenty one, Allen
Speaker 1: became the youngest staff writer in the magazine's illustrious history.
Speaker 1: We both worked together covering golf, Alan providing the words
Speaker 1: while I was helping produce and edit the pictures. We've
Speaker 1: been all over the world together, chasing the game, the players,
Speaker 1: the best narratives, and the contents of each other's wallets.
Speaker 1: From band into Ireland, Pebbled to pine Hurst the Old Course,
Speaker 1: to New Zealand, we seem to always stand on the
Speaker 1: eighteenth tea all square. In this episode, we're going back
Speaker 1: to the first tea of Allen's days as a budding scribe. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It starts really like in the early eighties. My dad
Speaker 1: had a girl for d who was a Sports Illustrated subscriber,
Speaker 1: and I'd already loved sports at that point, has a
Speaker 1: big Giants and Warriors fan, grow up in northern California.
Speaker 1: S I just kind of blew my mind, and he
Speaker 1: was just just beautiful package. It would come every week
Speaker 1: with you know, I'd cut out the photos of put
Speaker 1: on the wall. But I started to get into the
Speaker 1: articles just as a fan. But at some point I
Speaker 1: started to think about them a little more deeply and
Speaker 1: just kind of wondering intuitively, like how did they do that?
Speaker 1: You know, this story just absolutely uh enthralled me for
Speaker 1: the last twenty minutes and kind of wondering why and how,
Speaker 1: and that kind of I think sent me down the path.
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a sports writer at an early age, so,
Speaker 1: you know, and when I was a junior in high school,
Speaker 1: I started writing for this thing is California and That,
Speaker 1: which is pretty good local newspaper had about fift circulation,
Speaker 1: and um, I did that, you know, for two years,
Speaker 1: and by the ends basically the number one writer. I
Speaker 1: love sports and I loved writing, and honestly, it just
Speaker 1: felt natural to me. By the time I was probably
Speaker 1: a sophomore in high school, I was very tuned into
Speaker 1: the byelines and the different writings dialed and I mean,
Speaker 1: this is so, this is so nerdy. But I used
Speaker 1: to like make flow charts of the stories just to
Speaker 1: try and figure out, like you know, like it went
Speaker 1: from here to there to there to there. They came
Speaker 1: in because like I knew stuff was going on, I
Speaker 1: could quite crack the nut. You know. It was just
Speaker 1: like and so I was really into the writing, and
Speaker 1: you know, at some point I stopped, Um, I stopped
Speaker 1: cutting out the photos, and all I cared about was
Speaker 1: was the articles. And then when so then I had
Speaker 1: a decide where was going to go to college. And
Speaker 1: you know, back the Northwestern had the best journalism school.
Speaker 1: So I got into Northwestern. I went back for a
Speaker 1: visit and it was freezing. I got like, you know,
Speaker 1: basically a pneumonia in April. But more than that, their
Speaker 1: school paper was this little pamphlet was like eight pages.
Speaker 1: It was just it was nothing and then and then
Speaker 1: this is this is ninety one and so back to
Speaker 1: the Northwestern sports sucked. My sister was at u c
Speaker 1: l A. She's three years ahead of me, and so
Speaker 1: I used to go down there a lot, and the
Speaker 1: Daily Bruin was like this thick. I mean it was
Speaker 1: a hundred pages a day. And you know, U c
Speaker 1: l A. Sports was was going gangbusters there winning Rose Bowls,
Speaker 1: The obandoned brothers were showing up on campus, and the
Speaker 1: basketball team was ascendant, and uh so I just felt
Speaker 1: like for a lot of reasons, you say it was
Speaker 1: the place for me, but mostly because of the school paper.
Speaker 1: And uh you know, back then they had to rule
Speaker 1: you had to go to go through this whole like
Speaker 1: a freshman year class orientation, and you really couldn't start
Speaker 1: write with the paper until you're a sophomore. But because
Speaker 1: I had all these clips from this thing is Californian,
Speaker 1: they looked at Sai, all right, this guy knows what
Speaker 1: he's doing. So I started writing pretty much right away
Speaker 1: as a freshman, and um, so that all those pieces
Speaker 1: were kind of in place. Concurrently, you know, I needed
Speaker 1: a job to pay for you silly, so I started
Speaker 1: working at golf courses. My first job, when I was
Speaker 1: sixteen was at Quail Lodge out in Carmel Valley. It
Speaker 1: was an interesting place. Ben Doyle was teaching there. He's
Speaker 1: a disciple of Homer Kelly, the golfing Machine, Bobby Clamp.
Speaker 1: It was floating around. I mean, all this stuff was
Speaker 1: way over my head. But it was a pretty cool
Speaker 1: little you universe, you know. But it was also sleepy.
Speaker 1: There wasn't a lot of tips because the members were
Speaker 1: kind of old and cheap and whatever. I was looking
Speaker 1: for more action, and so I wound up at this
Speaker 1: brunch with Tom Oliver. He was the Pebble Beach Company president.
Speaker 1: That a lot of people at the table because my
Speaker 1: mom was a local politician so she knew him. He's like, so, well,
Speaker 1: and what are your plans for for this summer. I
Speaker 1: was like, well, Mr Oliver, I need a job, you know,
Speaker 1: and and kind of he was. He was kind of
Speaker 1: a schmoozy dude, like he picked up. He's like, well,
Speaker 1: we'll take care of you know. It's been grandiose gesture
Speaker 1: for all the table full of you know, swell people.
Speaker 1: So that's how I wound up getting hired as a
Speaker 1: cardboy Pebble Beach. So Shipnuk is good, already understands the craft.
Speaker 1: It's the early nineties. He's a teenager with dreams and
Speaker 1: aspirations to write for the magazine he loves to read.
Speaker 1: He's bound for college, but he's parking cards at Pebble Beach.
Speaker 1: Next step getting end with s I Brass. It really
Speaker 1: starts before my freshman at u c l as that
Speaker 1: summer before. So now I'm working full time as a
Speaker 1: cart boy for June July August, trying, you know, put
Speaker 1: away as much money as I can to pay for tuition.
Speaker 1: And because I was such an avid reader of Sports Illustrated,
Speaker 1: not only I know the byelines, but I knew the editors,
Speaker 1: because Mark Bovoy was the top guy, so I knew
Speaker 1: mo boy's name. And at Pebble in those days, um
Speaker 1: maybe still, they would get this computerized print out of
Speaker 1: the next day's T sheet and I would always flip
Speaker 1: through it because oh, Michael Jordan's or you know whomever,
Speaker 1: like it was Pebble Beach, but a lot of cool
Speaker 1: people roll through there, and so I'm flipping through the names.
Speaker 1: I see Mark Bolvoy like, oh my god. Of course,
Speaker 1: no one else in the pro shock had any idea
Speaker 1: who this guy was. And so the next day, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm waiting for him on the first tea and he
Speaker 1: comes out, and my old boss R. J. Harper, the
Speaker 1: late r. J. Harper, who was a legend. I told
Speaker 1: him what was coming. So um, r J made this
Speaker 1: big introduction and hyped me up. And I always appreciate
Speaker 1: that there's a little bit of a gumer pie. I
Speaker 1: looked at Alan. He was sort of tall, lanky kid,
Speaker 1: you know, a little longish neck, and very very well
Speaker 1: spoil good. And he told me what he has done,
Speaker 1: and I said, well great, I said to me, your favorite.
Speaker 1: The great thing about assessing writers is somebody sends you something,
Speaker 1: you read it, you say he can write, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: this is garbage. And so I told I said, Mr Mulvoy,
Speaker 1: my dream in life is to write for your magazine.
Speaker 1: I've been reading it since I was ten years old.
Speaker 1: And he was gracious, but this guy runs the greatest
Speaker 1: magazine on planet Earth. I'm an eighteen year old kid.
Speaker 1: He has very little used for me, but he gives
Speaker 1: me his card. He kind of pass me on my
Speaker 1: head and sends me on my way, and you know,
Speaker 1: he's like like a nice high draw down the first fairways.
Speaker 1: I'm sure he'll tell you about in great detail. And
Speaker 1: and every few months I would send him a letter
Speaker 1: in New York because I had his card. You know,
Speaker 1: dear Mr Mulvoy, I'm not covering you know, women's rugby
Speaker 1: for the Daily Ruin and no response. But I kept
Speaker 1: sending the letters. H I started covering football and basketball.
Speaker 1: You know, those are big beats. I mean, the Daily
Speaker 1: Brewing in those days had an almost unlimited budget because
Speaker 1: U c. L A surrounded by Westwood, Brentwood, Santa Monica,
Speaker 1: Beverly Hills and all those stores wanted to reach the students,
Speaker 1: so they would all add ties in the brewin we
Speaker 1: we had. I mean I would fly to football and
Speaker 1: basketball games in Arizona and Washington and Oregon. It's getting
Speaker 1: paid like a month. I mean it was crazy. He
Speaker 1: was the greatest uh newspaper job you could ever have
Speaker 1: an undergraduate. And I was doing big stories. I mean
Speaker 1: I wrote I wrote probably a three thousand words story
Speaker 1: about the women's soccer teams battle to go from club
Speaker 1: status to Division one. And it was like the whole
Speaker 1: back page of the Daily Bruin. I have that story too,
Speaker 1: by the way, and UH like doing like legit journalism.
Speaker 1: Um so anyway, so fast forward now to the summer
Speaker 1: of ninety three. It's my third summer at Pebble Beats,
Speaker 1: and once again I'm flipping through the t seets Mark
Speaker 1: Bolvoy and my first emotions I can't look at to
Speaker 1: tell me he was coming. You know, I'm like hurt,
Speaker 1: but uh, not really anyway, So I see his name
Speaker 1: and actually wasn't even supposed to work the next day
Speaker 1: by switched shifts so I could be there and he
Speaker 1: he comes out and as as your listeners will hear,
Speaker 1: I'm always got this great Boston accent. So I run
Speaker 1: up to him and I'm I'm like humping his leg
Speaker 1: and uh and I I can't do Boston. But he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're a little ship. Asked he sent me those letters,
Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, that's me. And so I
Speaker 1: said to me, a favous send me a bunch of
Speaker 1: the stuff you've written. Is what I've written for the
Speaker 1: local magazine and some things like that. It lived in
Speaker 1: one of the local towns out there. I forget which one.
Speaker 1: I later came to find out it was this nice
Speaker 1: old la named Joan Rasiski, who you know, Matt. She
Speaker 1: was Moboy secretary. Joan was the one who would open
Speaker 1: my letters and read them. And I don't think Mobile
Speaker 1: ever saw them, but he was maybe vaguely where they existed.
Speaker 1: This is now, I think August of ninety three and
Speaker 1: U s I was about to launch something called Golf Plus,
Speaker 1: which was a debut in January of it was it
Speaker 1: was a very small idea. It was gonna be like
Speaker 1: four or six editorial pages that one rider dedicated with
Speaker 1: high medias. But Mulboy was realizing they could probably use
Speaker 1: an intern so he said, He's like, yeah, okay, UM,
Speaker 1: send me some more clips and you know, a more
Speaker 1: formal introduction, and UH might have might have something for you.
Speaker 1: So of course I go home and I poured through
Speaker 1: all my stuff and create this whole package. Um and
Speaker 1: he says, he says, call me on Sunday at five
Speaker 1: o'clock lock mark Murevoy's office. No, he stepped away, may
Speaker 1: take a message. Uh probably he'd probably be back within
Speaker 1: the hour. Can I say, who's calling? Alan ship nuk okay?
Speaker 1: Spell that please? I'm a little discouraged by No, he's
Speaker 1: a busy guy. And so now the school year started
Speaker 1: at u C l A. So now now I'm down
Speaker 1: us l A doing this call again. I can't talk
Speaker 1: right now. I can't reach him Mark Muvoy's office. He
Speaker 1: stepped away, May take, May take a message? Please? Oh
Speaker 1: Mr ship Knook again, I can't reach him. Hello, he
Speaker 1: can't talk right, can't talk right now? Can I call
Speaker 1: you back? Thanks? So, if you remember the Pennant Race,
Speaker 1: he was the Braves and the Giants went down to
Speaker 1: the last day each one, like a hundred plus games,
Speaker 1: um in Atlanta, being in the n L West back
Speaker 1: in those days. To make it, he said, yeah, so
Speaker 1: my cousin has season tickets the Dodgers. The Giants were
Speaker 1: ending the last day of the season. They were playing
Speaker 1: in l A, you know, trying to win the pen in.
Speaker 1: So I went to the game and I'm sitting in
Speaker 1: the stands, Giants already losing like Piazce like two home runs.
Speaker 1: It's so sad. But and oh my god, it's two o'clock.
Speaker 1: You know, it's five o'clock in New York. And this
Speaker 1: is pre cell phone, this is I'm running around Dodgers
Speaker 1: Dave trying to find a working pay phone. They're all busted,
Speaker 1: like like six phones in a row like I could,
Speaker 1: and I'm freaking out. And so I finally find one
Speaker 1: and I dial you know, I have my mom's like
Speaker 1: calling card number or whatever, and I'm just I'm not
Speaker 1: even into I just want to get back to the
Speaker 1: baseball game because I know that Joan is going to answer,
Speaker 1: and I just was like, it's just a formality. So
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm just listening to the game. You know,
Speaker 1: we're trying to trying to watch the TV and mobile answers.
Speaker 1: He's like Mark Maloy and I said, what are you
Speaker 1: doing this summer? So when you come and work for
Speaker 1: us as an intern, call me next week and we'll
Speaker 1: talk details. It was like as got nine second phone
Speaker 1: call on a pay phone in Dodger Stadium and I'm
Speaker 1: standing there like, I think my life just changed. I
Speaker 1: don't even know what just happened. We get too later,
Speaker 1: excuse me, we get too later. This kid comes in
Speaker 1: to see me and he walks in and he's got
Speaker 1: a pair of flip clubs on and get a goofy
Speaker 1: shirt that's hanging out and his hairs all over the place.
Speaker 1: But we had an intern program. They didn't pay people.
Speaker 1: We paid all and we got him a place to
Speaker 1: stay in a dormitory room. Done it then, why you
Speaker 1: had a free room. And I know that somehow in
Speaker 1: those days, you can do a lot of things. We
Speaker 1: flew them back and forth. You know, you can do
Speaker 1: a lot of things. You can't do those things now.
Speaker 1: I show up on January two in a blizzard, and
Speaker 1: Golf Plus turned out to be an absolute home run
Speaker 1: because this was like right when the big birth of
Speaker 1: Driver had launched and had set off this whole equipment war,
Speaker 1: and all all the manufacturers wanted to advertise in Golf Plus,
Speaker 1: and so the ad money is pouring in and they
Speaker 1: literally cannot fill the pages. And you pour high ideas.
Speaker 1: Who we know is one of one of the greatest
Speaker 1: golf mines ever. Uh and absolutely legend and I love
Speaker 1: him and he was a really important mentor and he's
Speaker 1: still a friend. But it's not the fastest rite. We
Speaker 1: all know, admit that, right, it's not a deadline that
Speaker 1: was given to him me that wasn't absolutely blown through
Speaker 1: by days months. So um, and they have they have
Speaker 1: this guy Rick Lipsey, who's kind of helping helping behind me,
Speaker 1: you know, Rick and Rick one of the nicest human
Speaker 1: beings who's ever lived, but also not like a prolific
Speaker 1: deadline writer. And so they're they're literally having trouble feeling
Speaker 1: the pages, so that they sent me out to like
Speaker 1: the Honda Classic to help hire me, and um, he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm overwhelmed. He's like, maybe you can make some phone
Speaker 1: calls because um, Philip Micholson had just broken his legs
Speaker 1: skiing and Fred Couples had just blown out his back
Speaker 1: at dal and like all these guys were going down.
Speaker 1: He's like, see what you can find out. And so
Speaker 1: it was his first thing he ever wrote for supports
Speaker 1: phils for pretty sure it was. It was a thing
Speaker 1: on Fred Couples and it was about a Fred Couple's
Speaker 1: cut out. And I remember, I mean it was well
Speaker 1: crafted right off the bat. I mean he could write
Speaker 1: right off the bat. And I said, let me just
Speaker 1: look at it. And I was just going to change
Speaker 1: one word, and because he repeated a word, I think
Speaker 1: he might have two hands in there. And I remember
Speaker 1: Ship not went like, oh, you know, don't touch it.
Speaker 1: It's like a fucking Picasso, you know. So he had
Speaker 1: real pride. That's a good sign, you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm Alan doesn't need any coaching for me, but you know,
Speaker 1: right away you could tell he had high standards. So
Speaker 1: now they sent me out to start doing stories. And
Speaker 1: I'm not an employee. I'm just interned. So I don't
Speaker 1: have a business card. I don't have a corporate m X,
Speaker 1: like I literally have my my U c L a
Speaker 1: visa card that has a limit of like four dollars.
Speaker 1: And so I'm I'm trying to check out hotels and
Speaker 1: I'm getting turned down. I'm not on even twenty one,
Speaker 1: so i can't rent cars. I'm taking cabs everywhere. I've
Speaker 1: got this loner laptop. It's like the first generation computer
Speaker 1: ever built practically that it's always breaking on me um
Speaker 1: and it was just it was nutty. But for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: I felt like I could do it. And so I
Speaker 1: started turning these stories in and they kept and they
Speaker 1: were like, Okay, this is pretty good, let's give another one.
Speaker 1: The stories kept getting bigger. I went down to the
Speaker 1: Masters for the first time. It just started to snowball. You.
Speaker 1: So you're twenty Yeah, I'm twenty I turned twenty one
Speaker 1: at the end of May. Yeah, I did one quarter
Speaker 1: of my junior year and the fall of ninety three
Speaker 1: and then um, and then I dropped out. It's me
Speaker 1: eight month internship. I was always gonna go back at
Speaker 1: the end of August and so um. And it was
Speaker 1: just a crazy time because again this is pre internet.
Speaker 1: So um. I mean, people are paying four thousand dollars
Speaker 1: for a one page ad in Sports Illustrated back in
Speaker 1: those days, like they had they were printing money, and
Speaker 1: we had what was called the bullpen, you know that
Speaker 1: Matt Like, it was all kind of the the young
Speaker 1: aspiring writers, but the primary job was to fact check
Speaker 1: and maybe write small things. And there was so much talent.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was like, you know John Walter's and
Speaker 1: him Cruther's and Marty Chats, Yeah, Marty Birds, Chad Millman,
Speaker 1: who you know has gone to a great career as
Speaker 1: a David Fleming, my Michael Jaffee, you know, he's a
Speaker 1: successful novelists, like all these guys, and they're just dying
Speaker 1: to get any assignment and get out of the bullpen.
Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, I'm like I'm traveling every week,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm writing six page features and this is actually
Speaker 1: so funny. So Michael Jaffee his his by, He goes
Speaker 1: by Michael Grant Jaffee and one of his one of
Speaker 1: his novels became a Hollywood movie. And he was he
Speaker 1: was like college like hockey player. He was a big dude.
Speaker 1: He's probably six four, gravelly voice, and he loved haze
Speaker 1: me like. I was just this this little, you know,
Speaker 1: irritating intern for a while, and all of a sudden
Speaker 1: out writing stories. And so you'd file the story and
Speaker 1: again this is pretty cell phone too, you'd have I'd
Speaker 1: call in and say, talk to the editors and um,
Speaker 1: and this woman named Bambi Wolf kind of oversaw all
Speaker 1: these youngest firing writers in the Wolf and and she
Speaker 1: would she would parcel out the fact check assignments. And
Speaker 1: so I call in and she said, yeah, Jaffee's your
Speaker 1: fact checker. I was like, oh God. So I called Jaffee.
Speaker 1: I was say, hey, Michael, talent show. And there's this
Speaker 1: long pause, I mean like five seconds was an eternity.
Speaker 1: And he says, the gods must be mocking me, and
Speaker 1: I just I was just going with it. I was
Speaker 1: just trying to stay above the fray and and so
Speaker 1: by you know, after the US Open really at Oakmont,
Speaker 1: which was incredible open. You know that that was Arnie's
Speaker 1: last Open, and that was that was the playoff with
Speaker 1: Els and Monty and it was, it was, it was,
Speaker 1: It was what an introduction to the National Championship. After that,
Speaker 1: Mobile calls me down to his office and and he says,
Speaker 1: he's like, hey, kid, you've done a great job. You
Speaker 1: know we're gonna hire you. Don't worry about it. But
Speaker 1: you know I'd hire you right now, but your parents
Speaker 1: would hate me. You know. You know you need to
Speaker 1: go back to school and get your degree. But before
Speaker 1: you go, I want you to do one story for me.
Speaker 1: And was the year that Ken Griffe Jr. Absolutely blew up.
Speaker 1: You know, I had thirty five home runs at the
Speaker 1: All Star break. He signed with Nike and they were
Speaker 1: pumping out all these cool ads, and um, they wanted
Speaker 1: to do a big story on Junior. So it was
Speaker 1: that summer and all of a sudden, I worked in
Speaker 1: one Thursday and I said my baseball editor, Steve hool If,
Speaker 1: I said, you know, we're gonna do a story in
Speaker 1: Ken Griffey. He said, both film rights on vacation and
Speaker 1: I said, I know so, And so I said, you know,
Speaker 1: you're talking about a lot of fifty year old and
Speaker 1: sixty year old guys, and do we really want them
Speaker 1: to be writing about a nineteen year old kid? Why
Speaker 1: don't we have ship Nick? Do it? Well? The look
Speaker 1: at Steve's face so more boy. You know, he calls
Speaker 1: me down his big corner office and he's like, um,
Speaker 1: it's like why, He's like, you guys at the same age,
Speaker 1: why don't you want you even get the story? Go
Speaker 1: to the All Star Game in Pittsburgh and just make
Speaker 1: your pitch and see what happens. It's like, okay, I
Speaker 1: go to the All Star Game and it's great. And
Speaker 1: my my only job was just get like ten seconds
Speaker 1: with with Griffy. But of course everybody wants him. And
Speaker 1: for three days, basically I can't even I can't even
Speaker 1: like catch a glimpse of him. And I finally cral
Speaker 1: him after the All Star Game and and and tell him,
Speaker 1: you know what, I what I want to do, and
Speaker 1: he's like, he's not you know, he's got people coming
Speaker 1: at him left or right. He's like, okay, maybe if
Speaker 1: you come to Seattle maybe we can work something out.
Speaker 1: I was like, great, We'll go to Seattle. And so
Speaker 1: this is actually a funny piece of it. So again
Speaker 1: I'm just traveling like I don't even know what I'm doing,
Speaker 1: really um, and so I check your So I go
Speaker 1: to I fly in the Tech Airport and I just
Speaker 1: take the first little like motel by the airport and
Speaker 1: I check in and again no cell phone. So I
Speaker 1: call Mike Bevans, who was their baseball guy, and he
Speaker 1: was just really scary, old school guy. People were lived
Speaker 1: in fear of Mike Bevans. I'm still afraid of him.
Speaker 1: If you showed at my front door, I would, I would.
Speaker 1: So I called. I called Bevan's and he's a little
Speaker 1: he's a little um amused that I've even gotten this assignment.
Speaker 1: And so it's like he's like he's like, how do
Speaker 1: I reach you? Where are you stay? And I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm at the Seattle Airport motor in and and there's
Speaker 1: again there's like this pregnant pause. He's like, check out
Speaker 1: immediately and go check into the four seasons. He's like,
Speaker 1: s I writers will stay at the Seattle Motor when
Speaker 1: the sun is shining in Seattle. There's nowhere nicer. And
Speaker 1: I'm having a great time. I'm down on the field
Speaker 1: for batting practice, and I know, I'm just a baseball fan.
Speaker 1: It's so cool. And um, I really hadn't covered baseball
Speaker 1: at that point. And um, but Griffy, it looks at
Speaker 1: me like I doesn't even know me. When I when
Speaker 1: I reintroduced myself, and he's like, it's it's bad. It's
Speaker 1: a bad week. I got all these other commitments. It's
Speaker 1: just like, wow, Okay, Kennery, you know, told me in
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh to come out. He's like, yeah, sorry, dude. And
Speaker 1: so for two or three days, I'm just watching baseball
Speaker 1: and hanging out. And every day I have to call
Speaker 1: it Bevan. He's like, how's the story coming? Like it's coming,
Speaker 1: you know, I Cameron, this is camera. Oh this is
Speaker 1: the whole thing is that I've got nothing for this story.
Speaker 1: Um except at the All Star Game. Um, Reggie Jackson
Speaker 1: pulled pulled Griffy side and had this long heart to
Speaker 1: heart with him and there weren't many people around, and
Speaker 1: I saw it and I just kind of registered to
Speaker 1: me yet um and I went up to him afterwards,
Speaker 1: and you know, Mr Jackson, What did you tell Ken Griffin?
Speaker 1: He looks at Me's like, that's private. Son. The kid
Speaker 1: was never in our of anybody, never overwhelmed by any situation.
Speaker 1: But he was nineteen going on. But that was just
Speaker 1: a little moment I got from the All Star game.
Speaker 1: And so now I'm getting desperate. So in those days,
Speaker 1: and I don't know if it's still the same, but uh,
Speaker 1: but where there was a clubhouse entrance where all the
Speaker 1: family and friends would kind of wait for the players
Speaker 1: after the games, and it was kind of a fun scene.
Speaker 1: Everyone's happy if they won, and everyone knows each other.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of very beautiful women and all that,
Speaker 1: and so, um, I'm hanging out and Griffy, you know,
Speaker 1: he's twenty years old. He's living in a man with
Speaker 1: some of his high school friends. And there's one guy's name,
Speaker 1: I don't know his real name. His name was Jojo,
Speaker 1: and um, so I started chatting him up. And this
Speaker 1: guy loved to talk, and so he's he's telling me
Speaker 1: all kinds of great stuff, and it was like, in
Speaker 1: twenty minutes, I had so much good material. And so
Speaker 1: Junior comes out now and and Jojo is like, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: we had like ten girls in a limo and persist
Speaker 1: and his eyes get big because he's like, now this
Speaker 1: corporate property, right, and he doesn't want all this stuff out.
Speaker 1: In fact, he's and he's also dating the woman he's
Speaker 1: gonna wind up marrying, and so he literally puts his
Speaker 1: arm around my shoulders and he steers me away and
Speaker 1: he's like, he's like, yeah, man, I can't have you
Speaker 1: talking at Jojo. And I said, well, ken, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm here to do a job just like you are,
Speaker 1: and you've blown me off, you know, four days in
Speaker 1: a row. So I've just got to get my information. However,
Speaker 1: I can. You know, I'm sorry, but I gotta talk
Speaker 1: to Jojo. He's like yeah, I mean, it's like what
Speaker 1: I have to lose. He's already blowing me off. He's
Speaker 1: like he's like, fine, beat my law here tomorrow at
Speaker 1: ten am and we'll talk. It's like great, so show up.
Speaker 1: We talked for like an hour. It's really good. He
Speaker 1: jumps up. He's like, nice to meet you. I gotta
Speaker 1: go hit. I was like, you know, I just I
Speaker 1: just don't have quite enough form, like a big, long story.
Speaker 1: I'd hate to have to go back to Jojo. He's
Speaker 1: like he's like, it's like, motherfucker, be here tomorrow at ten.
Speaker 1: And that's it. So the next day, um, you know,
Speaker 1: get like another hour. And so now I've got incredible
Speaker 1: amount of interview time. But I'm still I mean, I
Speaker 1: basically extored the interview, right, it was fantastic, and uh,
Speaker 1: but I'm still I still don't have like the framework
Speaker 1: for the story in my mind. And so then that
Speaker 1: day batting practice, Reggie Jackson is there, and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: he's got some special position with the Yankees and with
Speaker 1: Major League Baseball and he kind of travels around and so, um,
Speaker 1: I button holed him and and I say, you know,
Speaker 1: Mr Jackson, we met in Pittsburgh, which it doesn't even remember.
Speaker 1: Of course, I said, I said, this is a potential
Speaker 1: cover story for Sports Illustrated, which I didn't even know
Speaker 1: that to be true, but I knew that Reggie had
Speaker 1: like an ego and like that would kind of puff
Speaker 1: him up. And so and so he we here recreates
Speaker 1: this whole conversation he had with Griffy and and about
Speaker 1: all the platforms of stardom, and you know, like he said,
Speaker 1: I was King Griffey Jr. When you know, before King
Speaker 1: Griffey Juniors Junior like, and he gives me all this
Speaker 1: great stuff. So I realized, like, there's this whole little thing,
Speaker 1: you know, this passing of the mantle, not necessarily from
Speaker 1: from for Reggie, but just Junior is like this new
Speaker 1: star and generational, generational talent and how everything that's that's
Speaker 1: coming his way. And so I kind of used like
Speaker 1: the conversation with Rady Jackson to frame the story. Do
Speaker 1: you write this in Seattle? Are you you know, are
Speaker 1: you a note taker by notebook? Or is this are
Speaker 1: you transcribing a video audio recorder? Like what's this form
Speaker 1: of both? I'm recording, I'm taking notes and I'm just
Speaker 1: you know, that's all I'm doing while I'm there is
Speaker 1: I'm so focused on this. I'm transcribing, I'm interviewing, and
Speaker 1: I'm talking to other players on both teams. I've got
Speaker 1: so much material. And now, if you remember, was the
Speaker 1: season they got truncated by the strike, Ye, Frank Thomas
Speaker 1: is hitting, Griffy's got a chance to hit sixty home
Speaker 1: row and the Exposed are unbeatable. It's so so now
Speaker 1: we're like in late July, and I thought I had time.
Speaker 1: You know, they basically said, take a couple of weeks
Speaker 1: right the story. But Bevan's is like, listen, strike might
Speaker 1: be coming. We've gotta get that. We want this story
Speaker 1: to run as soon as possible. You know, this is
Speaker 1: like maybe like a Thursday, like can you file Sunday morning.
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, And so I just stayed. I stayed
Speaker 1: in the four seasons and I'm good room service. It
Speaker 1: was fantastic, and I wrote the story and um meanwhile,
Speaker 1: they got Walter Yost to take an incredible portrait of
Speaker 1: Frank Thomas and Ken Griffe Jr. I shot them separately
Speaker 1: on the field before the game, and then I shot
Speaker 1: them together in an auxiliary locker room for the cover
Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated. So before the game, I had a batt
Speaker 1: impact practice picture throw tennis balls and I laid on
Speaker 1: the ground and they would hit balls over me. So
Speaker 1: you had the sun and in the middle of the summer,
Speaker 1: Comiskey above him in a strobe and you know, I'm
Speaker 1: laying on the ground with no shirt on shirt, you know,
Speaker 1: like it was hot out there. The best part of
Speaker 1: it was, you know, I got to meet Griffin in
Speaker 1: the long run out of this story, so that to
Speaker 1: me was the most important. Thomas was going a little tricky.
Speaker 1: So this is the cover. Yeah yeah, check this out.
Speaker 1: This is the original like press pass, I've always held
Speaker 1: onto your hand written, because I mean, that's the whole
Speaker 1: other thing is like the pr guy from the Mariners.
Speaker 1: When I show up in Seattle, he pulls me aside.
Speaker 1: He's like, he's so miffed because I didn't go through
Speaker 1: any of the proper channels. I just went to Griffy
Speaker 1: sold it to him. He's like, this is not how
Speaker 1: we do things major League Baseball. He's like, I need
Speaker 1: to I need to contact for your editor. Like he's
Speaker 1: totally piste off at me, and I was just another
Speaker 1: thing that was hurting my cause. So he goes all,
Speaker 1: spends ten days with Griffy good knows where Seattle, wherever
Speaker 1: the hell they were playing, turns in this story and
Speaker 1: I'm looking at and I said, oh my god. Steve
Speaker 1: comes into me and says, oh my gosh. And every repeater, Currey, everybody,
Speaker 1: you know, my assistance, everybody who would read those things,
Speaker 1: they said it was a home run. It was the
Speaker 1: one and it was a perfect match of people to
Speaker 1: nineteen year olds. So yeah, so that that comes out
Speaker 1: and then the strike hits. But it's such a it's
Speaker 1: like a powerful cover, you know, it's the lighting is
Speaker 1: beautiful and they both looked like total badasses. And what
Speaker 1: do you do you remember anything about that cover shoot? Uh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I kept teasing Frank and you know, don't known Frank
Speaker 1: for a while. I just kept saying it was the
Speaker 1: beauty and the beast, me being the beauty. Uh. But
Speaker 1: in Chicago, Uh, weather went bad. Um, but it was
Speaker 1: you know, to me, it was a typical photo shoot.
Speaker 1: You know. I was like, hey, you want to do this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be on the coverage sports. Yeah, alright, let's go. Um.
Speaker 1: Which I tried to limit my access uh as much
Speaker 1: as I could, but I know there were certain things
Speaker 1: that um I had to do. Uh. So that story
Speaker 1: comes out, and it's right at the end of my internship,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm about to go back to school and
Speaker 1: Mulva calls me down to his office. He's like, kid,
Speaker 1: I'm so proud of you. Uh. And he's like he's like, listen,
Speaker 1: you go back to school, get your degree. Like we
Speaker 1: talked about, when you graduate, we'll make your staff writers
Speaker 1: could be the youngest staff writer in the history of
Speaker 1: the magazine. And that was sort of the start of
Speaker 1: his career. And I mean he had a job, the
Speaker 1: full time job at Sports Illustrated the day he finished
Speaker 1: up in U C. L a UM. But he's like,
Speaker 1: but don't He's like, but when you graduate, I want
Speaker 1: you to I want you to come back to New York.
Speaker 1: I think it's important your work out of the office.
Speaker 1: You have the resources of of of the library and
Speaker 1: get to know the editors. I said, okay, so I
Speaker 1: go back to school. I have five quarters. I pretty
Speaker 1: much stopped right with the Daily Bruin and and kept
Speaker 1: riding for Astie. They made me a special contributor. So
Speaker 1: I used to cut classes and like fly off to
Speaker 1: the stories and then come back and and it's funny,
Speaker 1: actually had a journalism class, and like I was such
Speaker 1: it was kind of a cocky move. I remember going
Speaker 1: out to the press room like like slapping a magazine
Speaker 1: under desk. I just like submit this story for my
Speaker 1: right aout original words. You know, I read the story
Speaker 1: this morning because I was trying to transport myself back
Speaker 1: into the early nineties. The headline of your story is
Speaker 1: junior comes of age. He's the straw that stirs the game,
Speaker 1: and you're a dotes of Reggie to junior. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: in talking about how he would deal with the pressure
Speaker 1: and expectations, Reggie was marveling a sort of I mean,
Speaker 1: you're living the story you're writing. Did you ever at
Speaker 1: some point have that sense you were also sort of
Speaker 1: basically kind of writing your own story. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: good question. That's pretty meta really when you think about it.
Speaker 1: But in a small way. Obviously you didn't know that
Speaker 1: at that time, But I didn't know that this was
Speaker 1: like like a monumental opportunity for obviously to get this assignment.
Speaker 1: And as you know, like Devins and David Bower, Rob Flaeder,
Speaker 1: like all the top editors, Peter, they all love baseball.
Speaker 1: They were baseball nerds and junkies, like that was the
Speaker 1: sport they cared about the most that I don't know
Speaker 1: why that's so, but there was just a period in
Speaker 1: s I where all the guys pretty much Random Magazine
Speaker 1: were obsessed with baseball. And so to you know, plant
Speaker 1: your flag in that beat, get it on the cover,
Speaker 1: you know, share the cover with with Rick Riley. I
Speaker 1: mean it was all the all those things were meaningful,
Speaker 1: so I knew it was a huge opportunity. Um, so
Speaker 1: you're twenty one when that cover story came out. You're
Speaker 1: twenty one year old. You know, you were still at
Speaker 1: U c l A, still a junior basics, still in
Speaker 1: the in the process of trying to get your degree. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's yeah, that was that was cool. And and
Speaker 1: I just remember, you know, back then, like walking around
Speaker 1: New York and seeing that magazine on the newsstands and
Speaker 1: like that was that was neat. And um, do you
Speaker 1: have like a hundred copies box somewhere? I have a couple, like, um,
Speaker 1: I'm not even sure we're there. But it's so funny
Speaker 1: because a guy on Twitter just reached out to me.
Speaker 1: He said, I was cleaning my garage and look what
Speaker 1: I found and it was that cover and he said,
Speaker 1: can I send it to you? Will you sign it?
Speaker 1: I said, well, I might actually just keep it. What
Speaker 1: happened with your relationship with Junior after that cover story
Speaker 1: had do you ever cross paths? The follow up note?
Speaker 1: You know how it is that you rarely get that.
Speaker 1: I mean, actually this just came in the mail. This
Speaker 1: is a letter from Ben Crunch and like the New
Speaker 1: Golf magazine, I have a big feature on band like
Speaker 1: it's very rare to get the handwritten note of course,
Speaker 1: so classy I pumped into too junior. God, it was like,
Speaker 1: I mean, literally fifteen years later, he's at the end
Speaker 1: of his career. I was. I was living in southern California,
Speaker 1: so every now and then s I would ask me
Speaker 1: to do some Dodgers stuff. And so he was playing
Speaker 1: for the Reds, you know, he'd gone back to the
Speaker 1: Reds like late in his career, and I was out
Speaker 1: there doing a feature and and so I just walked
Speaker 1: up to him and said, hey, Ken, I'm I doubt
Speaker 1: you even remember this, but way back at ninety four,
Speaker 1: you're on the cover of Frank Thomas. Like I was.
Speaker 1: I was a young kid. I wrote that story. I
Speaker 1: remember that cover. Man. That was cool and we had
Speaker 1: you know, we had a fun little I'm sure you
Speaker 1: remember the photo. I doubt he even never ever read
Speaker 1: the story, right, but this is a memorable photo. First
Speaker 1: time I asked on the cover, So that was kind
Speaker 1: of fun. I'll end on this note because my kids
Speaker 1: every now and that I've been asked to be a
Speaker 1: speaker at you know, the Carmel Middle School career day,
Speaker 1: and so kids come out because you know, all the
Speaker 1: boys wanted to think they want to be sports writers.
Speaker 1: They don't know that the most important thing is to
Speaker 1: be a writer, not to be a sports fan. But
Speaker 1: they all show up and I tell the story about
Speaker 1: sending them the letters to mulboy because I did have
Speaker 1: some natural ability to write. But the most important part
Speaker 1: of the whole tale is that you know, the dog
Speaker 1: and determination to send him those letters, to be waiting
Speaker 1: from on the tea, to keep following up, Like I
Speaker 1: basically forced the guy to give me an internship, and
Speaker 1: that was where it all began. So I tell the
Speaker 1: story to kids, like it's not enough to be good
Speaker 1: at something, like you have to really want it, and
Speaker 1: you have to really follow up, and you have to
Speaker 1: be really dogging. Over the years of you know, watching him,
Speaker 1: working with him report, you know, next to him, there's
Speaker 1: not many people who who report. I mean, you can
Speaker 1: have a great writer, and you can have a great reporter,
Speaker 1: and sometimes you have a great reporter who also is
Speaker 1: a great writer, which I think Alan is because I
Speaker 1: don't think he gets enough credit for his reporting, which
Speaker 1: ultimately leads to his great writing. Funny thing. Man, it's
Speaker 1: an interesting point you bring up. For instance, I looked
Speaker 1: at people and I qualified that quantify them as I
Speaker 1: was a far better reporter, for instance, than I was
Speaker 1: a writer. I also wrote twelve books that I wrote
Speaker 1: yet really cover stories for Sports Illustrated, Curry Kirkpatrick was
Speaker 1: fine a reporter writer combination as you'd find anywhere. And
Speaker 1: if you're I mean, if you're a great reporter, you
Speaker 1: can survive as a writer. But if you're a writer
Speaker 1: who can't report, you have a hard time surviving. Alan
Speaker 1: had that perfect blend. He he asked the right questions,
Speaker 1: He was very imprescient, he was knowledgeable, he looked around,
Speaker 1: he talked to people, and uh, and then he wrote,
Speaker 1: I mean, when you have the dual talents that he had. Uh.
Speaker 1: It was brilliant. First impressions about well, I could tell
Speaker 1: how enthusiastic he was and but also a real confidence,
Speaker 1: borring on cockiness, because he just I think knew he
Speaker 1: was sort of destined for something and he wasn't. I
Speaker 1: didn't think odd by being a Sports Illustrated I mean
Speaker 1: he basically I think I felt like, you know, Okay,
Speaker 1: I got here through some fortune, but this is where
Speaker 1: I was gonna end up, one way or the other.
Speaker 1: And you know, I think he was comfortable with the task,
Speaker 1: and I think he knew, you know, the traditions of
Speaker 1: the writing there, and I think he thought he could
Speaker 1: meet them, and uh, you know, not without you know,
Speaker 1: he wasn't at all obnoxious about it, but he just
Speaker 1: carried himself with an assurance that was you know, very
Speaker 1: evident and not off footing. It was more like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you know, this kid's gonna go someplace, and you know,
Speaker 1: just don't don't act like he's got to pay all
Speaker 1: these dues. He's already you know, at a high level
Speaker 1: at that time before he's obviously that was the strike year,
Speaker 1: but Thomas is having a thunders here and Griffy might
Speaker 1: hit sixty home runs. Do you kind of what's your
Speaker 1: recollection of sort of his status. Well, I've never met
Speaker 1: either of them before. I mean, Griffy, it was one
Speaker 1: of my favorite players of all time, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: the sweetest swinging up there with the Maggio and the
Speaker 1: history of the game and did everything magically. So maybe
Speaker 1: I spent fifteen minutes with the portraits and as he had.
Speaker 1: You know, I had some polaroids I shot and Griffy
Speaker 1: is sitting around. I said, like, don't you want to leave?
Speaker 1: He said, no, I like photography. You want to take
Speaker 1: some more pictures. When do you get that opportunity? So
Speaker 1: he sat there and we just took photographs for the
Speaker 1: like fifteen or twenty minutes. I mean, Griffy's got more
Speaker 1: camera gear I've had the last like twenty years. He
Speaker 1: loves photography. And we became acquainted that day and we've
Speaker 1: become friends ever since. You know, I did a book
Speaker 1: of Griffy. You know, he's a terrific person, a great
Speaker 1: family man. Um. I love Griffy. So to to go
Speaker 1: back to Walter for a second in that cover shoot
Speaker 1: Frank Thomas that year, Alan Schipner, do you have any
Speaker 1: recollection of this twenty one year old kid trying to
Speaker 1: wrangle you in Pittsburgh at the All Star Game and
Speaker 1: then Seattle and trying to trying to trying to get
Speaker 1: time with you as he was trying to Do you
Speaker 1: have any recollection of this at all? No? Um, you
Speaker 1: know I do remember going to the photo shoot because
Speaker 1: I was like, why am I? They don't want my
Speaker 1: jersey on. This is not normal and Walter, you know,
Speaker 1: to me, it was one of those things that you
Speaker 1: know that was twenty four there's one of those things
Speaker 1: that you gotta do Sports Illustrated and I just said, okay,
Speaker 1: here we go. Me. I mean, I do remember that
Speaker 1: the interview was a little longer then it should have been.
Speaker 1: All good stuff out obviously, thanks again. Tradition here on
Speaker 1: the fire pit is to ask all of our guests
Speaker 1: what is your favorite firement? I mean, I grew up
Speaker 1: backpacking with my dad in the Sierra and sitting around
Speaker 1: those campfires in the middle of nowhere where it's pitch
Speaker 1: black and more stars. You could ever imagine that that
Speaker 1: would be an early memory. But in a golf context,
Speaker 1: it has to be up abandoned dudes. At the end
Speaker 1: of a long, taxing Uncle Tony Invitational, there's always a
Speaker 1: lot of camaraderie. Everyone's emotional because it's been such a
Speaker 1: fun time and often back to our real lives. People
Speaker 1: are drinking out the trophy, not me, but that's gonna
Speaker 1: happen soon. Um. You know, Joe Horrowitz is drumming the guitar.
Speaker 1: You're surrounded by those towering trees, and it's just such
Speaker 1: an evocative setting and it would be beautiful, uh if
Speaker 1: you're there by yourself, but the camaraderie and the group
Speaker 1: of guys we have at the communal experience of haven't
Speaker 1: played the tournament. Now this is kind of the end
Speaker 1: of it. That's definitely my favorite firepit fun feeling to
Speaker 1: hear this this story and uh and and again for
Speaker 1: bits and pieces throughout our relationship and friendship and travels
Speaker 1: all over the world, but to hear it all in
Speaker 1: one sort of narrative arc was was it treat? So
Speaker 1: thanks again for the time, Thanks again for sharing, and
Speaker 1: and I'm sure I'll see you at a fire pitson hopefully. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I look forward to Thanks for having me a thank
Speaker 1: you for listening to the Firepit. This podcast is produced
Speaker 1: by alex Or Peggy, edited by Rex Linked. Theme song
Speaker 1: and music by Joe Horns. Please rate and review on
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts and you might find your review featured in
Speaker 1: a future episode. I got a question, comment, or a
Speaker 1: story for us to track down. You can find me
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Matt Janella or on Instagram at Matt
Speaker 1: Underscore Jenelle. A condensed visual cut of this podcast is
Speaker 1: also available on the fire Pit with Mattenella YouTube chin
Speaker 1: and if you haven't done so already, please subscribe to
Speaker 1: the fire Pit on iTunes, Spotify, or a stitcher.