Speaker 1: Hey, what's up everybody. Welcome to the Guilty of Charge Podcast,
Speaker 1: presented by the Chargers Podcast Network. My name is Stephen
Speaker 1: and I am the host as always, and joining me
Speaker 1: is my guy Tyler. Tyler, what some man? How you
Speaker 1: doing this afternoon?
Speaker 2: I'm doing awesome, Steven. It's July. It is the month
Speaker 2: of training camp. Dude, Jude, I'm excited. I can't wait.
Speaker 1: Training camp, among other things happening in July.
Speaker 2: You know, Fourth of July birthday, on my wedding, my wedding. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's in two weeks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'll be there for that one. Yeah, there
Speaker 1: you go, Happy early wedding to the Shunes. Happy fourth
Speaker 1: of July. We are recording this on Sunday the second,
Speaker 1: but you guys are watching this on the fourth, So
Speaker 1: hopefully you guys are having a great time celebrating Safetime,
Speaker 1: celebrating today. Thank you for listening, and hopefully we give
Speaker 1: you guys a good show or some offseason content. So,
Speaker 1: like Tyler mentioned, we are about three weeks away from
Speaker 1: the beginning of training camp, and so we figured we
Speaker 1: kind of revisit some of the bigger question marks that
Speaker 1: we have leading up to training camp. That We're hoping
Speaker 1: we get answered in training camp and preseason as the
Speaker 1: Chargers kind of you know, kick off the twenty twenty
Speaker 1: three season. So excited to dive into all of that
Speaker 1: today before we begin, As always, we are fans first
Speaker 1: and foremost, we are independent content creators for the Chargers.
Speaker 1: We are fortunate to be doing this every single week
Speaker 1: for you guys, and you know, at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, we're fans just like you are. So the
Speaker 1: opinions that we express on today's show are not always
Speaker 1: reflected by the organization, by the coaching staff. We're just
Speaker 1: happy to have a platform that the Chargers have given
Speaker 1: us and we're hoping we are doing them proud. So
Speaker 1: excited to dive in today show. Tyler. When you look
Speaker 1: at kind of like your process here in determined what
Speaker 1: kind of question marks we have left to be answered,
Speaker 1: where did your mind like first go before we actually
Speaker 1: get into the questions. What was kind of your process
Speaker 1: in whittling it down to getting these questions that we have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that tended to I tended to lean towards stock
Speaker 2: up sort of or maybe even stock down options like
Speaker 2: and hopefully stock up right Hay in the training camp everything,
Speaker 2: everything's more positive. I want someone to take that step forward.
Speaker 2: So who could that person be? And the other direction
Speaker 2: I went was what roles do does this person have?
Speaker 2: Is their role diminished, do they have more of a role,
Speaker 2: do they start, can they start, et cetera. So that's
Speaker 2: kind of where I looked at for the most part.
Speaker 2: We'll get in some other stuff too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you know, when we look at like
Speaker 1: personnel questions, you know, that's kind of where the bulk
Speaker 1: of my attention went to in terms of, like, you know,
Speaker 1: who can emerge, who can you know, cement their status
Speaker 1: on the roster. There's some general like team ceiling questions
Speaker 1: that I think could be discussed in this kind of
Speaker 1: space as well. You know, one of the comments that
Speaker 1: we always get whenever we are kind of talking about
Speaker 1: certain players, right, is always like, well, Trey Pipkins, can
Speaker 1: you know kind of be a potential outcome for any
Speaker 1: of these players? Right? So that person that player is
Speaker 1: obviously always at the forefront of my mind at these days.
Speaker 1: And so that's kind of my first question. And I
Speaker 1: think we can kind of kick off this interview or
Speaker 1: not this injury excuse me, this episode in that regard
Speaker 1: is there a Trey Pipkins in twenty twenty three. I
Speaker 1: think it's important to revisit where he was at leading
Speaker 1: into training camp in twenty twenty two as somebody who
Speaker 1: lost the position battle for swing tackle leading into the
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one season, and then in twenty twenty two
Speaker 1: he was headed for a position battle with Storm Norton
Speaker 1: right and there was, you know, a lot of speculation
Speaker 1: that the Chargers would add a right tackle and they
Speaker 1: ultimately decided not to, although they did draft Jamary Sawyer,
Speaker 1: who could play tackle right, but they didn't add like
Speaker 1: a pure right tackle in the draft and said they
Speaker 1: decided a draft design Johnson early in the first round.
Speaker 1: And so there was just kind of this incumbent battle
Speaker 1: between Storm Norton and Trey Pipkins that we were headed towards.
Speaker 1: And then obviously Trey ended up winning the battle here.
Speaker 1: So if I said to you, Tyler, like who could
Speaker 1: be a potential Trey Pipkins this year? Who would you
Speaker 1: bring up in this space?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's tough, because there's Trey Pipkins got to start right,
Speaker 2: so he was able to have a pure starting role
Speaker 2: as the right tackle, especially if you look at that
Speaker 2: twenty twenty class, and some of these guys in their
Speaker 2: contract year, they either have that role already or they
Speaker 2: will not be able to get that role. So I
Speaker 2: think the closest thing, if you're asking me who can
Speaker 2: take that Trey Pipkins sort of leap close but not exact,
Speaker 2: is Joshua Kelly. And I think it's because Kelly does
Speaker 2: have that talent. Like Pipkins. We've seen flashes of great
Speaker 2: play and a great player, it's just never fully manifested
Speaker 2: in the form of stellar play throughout an entire year.
Speaker 2: Kelly's also in a contract year. They did not draft
Speaker 2: a running back this year, like they didn't draft a
Speaker 2: tackle for trade Pipkins. But there's going to be a
Speaker 2: bit of a battle. And sure, like Pipkins, Kelly is
Speaker 2: currently the RB two, so he is the quote unquote
Speaker 2: favorite for that particular spot over someone like Isaiah Spiller.
Speaker 2: But there will be a training camp battle. But I
Speaker 2: think Pipkins got himself and he did get a Duke
Speaker 2: many Weather. He got himself a Duke many Weather, got
Speaker 2: himself a great offseason coach to work with and improve,
Speaker 2: And I know Kelly didn't, not to my knowledge, get
Speaker 2: anybody particularly like that, but he did get someone to
Speaker 2: help unlock his potential, and I think that's Kellen Moore.
Speaker 2: We've talked so much about, you know, Kellen Moore in
Speaker 2: the passing attack, but for this Chargers offense, right, the
Speaker 2: rising tide lifts all boats, and I think that more
Speaker 2: can do that, not just for the passing game, but
Speaker 2: for the run game as well. So Kelly has shown
Speaker 2: the talent like Pipkins has. He's in a contract year,
Speaker 2: he's upgraded with Kellen Moore. I think if I had
Speaker 2: to pick somebody sort of in that same vain and
Speaker 2: certainly you know, heading into his final contract year, I
Speaker 2: think that's Joshua Kelly.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's a really interesting call. I wasn't
Speaker 1: sure if he would be somebody that could like qualify
Speaker 1: for this kind of criteria, but I think he does
Speaker 1: fit the role, right. I think if you go back
Speaker 1: and look at obviously his twenty twenty rookie season did
Speaker 1: not necessarily end super well. There were some really nice
Speaker 1: flashes early in the season, and then you know, he
Speaker 1: had those fumbles and that just kind of derailed his confidence.
Speaker 1: And then in twenty twenty one, you know, there was
Speaker 1: really just kind of a season long back and forth
Speaker 1: between him, Larry Rowntree, and Justin Jackson for that RB
Speaker 1: two spot behind Austin Eckler. Justin Jackson actually obviously ended
Speaker 1: up kind of winning that battle out and played some
Speaker 1: good football for the Chargers down the stretch. And then
Speaker 1: last year it was it was kind of the same
Speaker 1: kind of thing where it was like, Okay, we're gonna
Speaker 1: draft Isaiah Spiller, we saw Larry Rowntree, and then also
Speaker 1: we're gonna add Sony Michelle late in the process too.
Speaker 1: So Joshua Kelly was never really given his chance leading
Speaker 1: up to this season and then ultimately won the job
Speaker 1: out over Sony Michelle and Isaiah Spiler and played some
Speaker 1: really good football for this team until the injury, of course.
Speaker 1: So I think you look at his twenty twenty two season,
Speaker 1: you see some great flashes, right, and I think you
Speaker 1: can see the data is pretty solid for him as well.
Speaker 1: You know, in twenty twenty two he averaged two point
Speaker 1: seventy nine yards after contact per attempt, which is something
Speaker 1: that he himself talked to our guy Argen on our
Speaker 1: channel leading up to last season. Has kind of a
Speaker 1: key attribute and you generally want to be above two
Speaker 1: point six in my opinion, for like an above average
Speaker 1: running back in the league. And so a lot of
Speaker 1: people on the outside look at the Chargers running back
Speaker 1: situation and think there might be a ton of question marks.
Speaker 1: But this coaching staff clearly thought a lot of Joshua
Speaker 1: Kelly or they would have added at least one other
Speaker 1: body to this room. So I think the way that
Speaker 1: this team has handled the offseason shows that they have
Speaker 1: faith in Joshua Kelly going forward.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's in a great spot where we've seen
Speaker 2: with Kellen Moore that he can handle the two back sets,
Speaker 2: and I think that or two back rotation, I guess.
Speaker 2: And josh mc kelly is a really good compliment to
Speaker 2: Austin Eckler, So I think that's a good fit. But
Speaker 2: who did you have in mind for this question?
Speaker 1: So I did have Joshua Kelly written down, just like
Speaker 1: I mentioned. I know, I wasn't sure if he would fit,
Speaker 1: so I put a question mark next to his name.
Speaker 1: The two main candidates I thought we could discuss would
Speaker 1: be Kenneth Murray and Trey McKitty. Again, Kenneth Murray not
Speaker 1: sure if he necessarily fits because we've seen some good football.
Speaker 1: He's started a lot of games for this team. I
Speaker 1: guess Trey McKitty, you know, third round pick, third round pick,
Speaker 1: kind of fits as well. And Trey McKitty has kind
Speaker 1: of been on the outside looking in at the tight
Speaker 1: end position. But you know, he's done a lot of
Speaker 1: extra work this offseason too. You know he's been at
Speaker 1: tight end you with George Kittle and Travis Kelsey, those guys.
Speaker 1: He's putting in the work right now, and I think
Speaker 1: that should be commended. It's just a matter of what
Speaker 1: kind of role can he bring in. And I think
Speaker 1: it's tough to look back at last season in a
Speaker 1: super positive note for Trey McKitty, But if you go
Speaker 1: back to his rookie season, he was really coming into
Speaker 1: his own as a blocker towards the end of the
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one season. And so we know that that player,
Speaker 1: that role that they're hoping for is in there with Trey.
Speaker 1: It's just a matter of bringing that back out for
Speaker 1: him in twenty twenty three. And I think he's taking
Speaker 1: the steps necessary to go and prove that he can
Speaker 1: be that guy. And they didn't draft anybody, and I
Speaker 1: think some of that is Donald Parham, right, who we
Speaker 1: both mentioned and discussed in the Top ten Most Important
Speaker 1: Players show on our own channel. But Trey McKitty two
Speaker 1: is part of this. I think if they were doubtful
Speaker 1: about Trey, I think they would have added more to
Speaker 1: the room than an undrafted free agent. But I think
Speaker 1: there is some confidence from the team side of things
Speaker 1: that Tray can't get back to who he was as
Speaker 1: a rookie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think people forget and sometimes I have
Speaker 2: to remind myself that his rookie season was really solid.
Speaker 2: It took a minute, right, third round players start immediately
Speaker 2: and play immediately, But once he worked into the rotation,
Speaker 2: he was looking really, really good. I mean, you talk
Speaker 2: about against a very good Steelers defensive line, not that
Speaker 2: I don't think even TJ. Watt was playing that game,
Speaker 2: but against someone like Cam Heyward on the goal line.
Speaker 2: There's a play where he's knocking him off of his
Speaker 2: feet like that is there and you saw it even
Speaker 2: towards the end of last season against the Rams. There's
Speaker 2: a Trey McKitty there that is an excellent blocker. Truly,
Speaker 2: he is there and he can be an excellent blocker.
Speaker 2: He just needs to put it together. And again, like
Speaker 2: I talked about with Kelly and the rushing attack, I
Speaker 2: think that Kellen Moore can elevate the tight end room
Speaker 2: as well as he has in Dallas previously.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think you can look at a guy
Speaker 1: like Peyton Hendershot who was not necessarily No. One as
Speaker 1: a super great blocker in Dallas. You can look at
Speaker 1: what he did with Jake Ferguson this past year as well.
Speaker 1: And I'm glad that you're framing that too, with the
Speaker 1: way that kel Moore can kind of raise this raise
Speaker 1: the tide as you as you put it. So, Trey
Speaker 1: Mkitty to me, is the guy that I first thought of,
Speaker 1: But I think I do think Joshua Kelly probably fits
Speaker 1: this question better than Trey does, just because I think
Speaker 1: Joshua probably has a better chance of reaching that kind
Speaker 1: of level. And I think people kind of forget that
Speaker 1: Trey was playing on one leg and was still, you know,
Speaker 1: a top twenty five offensive tackle in pass blocking efficiency
Speaker 1: rating this past season. And you know, I'm excited to
Speaker 1: see what he does in twenty twenty three with a
Speaker 1: new contract and everything too. But I think Joshua Kelly
Speaker 1: can really take his game to new heights this year. Again,
Speaker 1: somebody that should stay healthier this season as well.
Speaker 2: So August, I'll kind of continue with that and talk
Speaker 2: about the offensive line and my question, which is something
Speaker 2: I really need to have answered in training camp. When
Speaker 2: Rashaun Slater and Trey Pipkins rotate off the field with
Speaker 2: the rest of the first team unit as they do,
Speaker 2: who are the two tackles that replace them? Because it
Speaker 2: could be any combination of Sarah at left tackle and
Speaker 2: Nick Melsop and right tackle. I talked to Nick Melsop's
Speaker 2: offensive line coach. They seem to think that he's a
Speaker 2: right tackle. I'm going to be a right tackle. Is
Speaker 2: it Jamari Sawyer at left tackle which he did last
Speaker 2: year and keep Sarrel at right tackle? Is it Jordan
Speaker 2: McFadden at left tackle, you know? And Sarah at right tackle?
Speaker 2: Because McFadden did play left tackle at Clemson? So what
Speaker 2: are the contingency plans here? Because I felt like heading
Speaker 2: into last season, the Chargers never really figured it out
Speaker 2: in camp. They had their competition, but I really feel
Speaker 2: like they didn't have a plan for both tackle spots.
Speaker 2: Are really a true swing tackle at at minimum and
Speaker 2: I think that cost them a bit down the stretch.
Speaker 2: They were just really lucky to have Jamary Sallier who
Speaker 2: could kick out to tackle with no practice and hold
Speaker 2: it down against Miles Garrett in his second game. So
Speaker 2: I am curious though, because this one isn't talked about
Speaker 2: as much, and I'm curious to get your thoughts on
Speaker 2: this one. Continuing with who we've been talking about, if
Speaker 2: Saral is their immediate backup at right tackle, like I
Speaker 2: just say, he is immediately their right tackle backup and
Speaker 2: he was last season, would they consider moving Trey Pipkins
Speaker 2: it's a left tackle if for Shaun Slider goes down,
Speaker 2: And I only suggest that because he has chemistry working
Speaker 2: with Zion Johnson, who they are moving to the left side,
Speaker 2: and they worked really well together. Look at Houston, that
Speaker 2: game was fantastic. You look at Austin Eckles's two biggest
Speaker 2: runs of the season, that's Zion Johnson and Trey Pipkins.
Speaker 2: But more than that, and again literally more Kellen, more
Speaker 2: than that. If you're running your rushing attack through your
Speaker 2: two guys on the left side, like if you move
Speaker 2: Zion to the left side, because you're going to really
Speaker 2: focus your re rushing attack on that strength that left
Speaker 2: tuckle left guard pair if you want to maintain consistency
Speaker 2: like Kellen Moore has been able to do. Granted you
Speaker 2: are moving a player to the left side. I think
Speaker 2: you're really only able to put either Trey Pipkins or
Speaker 2: McFadden out there based on athletic profile and all respect
Speaker 2: to the rookie, but we've never seen him play tackle
Speaker 2: in the NFL, and I think they see him more
Speaker 2: as a guard. So I'm just curious if Trey Pipkins
Speaker 2: is part of that contingency plan because you can move
Speaker 2: him over to the left side and really not lose
Speaker 2: as much as your rushing attack.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the second unit for the for training
Speaker 1: camp and for the preseason is definitely gonna be an
Speaker 1: interesting one because, like we think, Jordan mcfannin is gonna
Speaker 1: be playing guard like that's that seems to be the plan.
Speaker 1: He was basically exclusively a left tackle in college last year.
Speaker 1: The two tackles where Zach Bailey at left and then
Speaker 1: and then Foster Surrell at right tackle, who you mentioned earlier.
Speaker 1: Now you know Zach Bailey has been rotating at guard
Speaker 1: and supposedly. According to Dana Popper, this team is it's
Speaker 1: pretty high on Zach Bailey as a potential guard piece
Speaker 1: for moving forward. So is Jordan mcfatten your left tackle
Speaker 1: then with the second unit, or is he you know,
Speaker 1: stuck at guard, Zach Bailey back to left tackle. You
Speaker 1: mentioned mister Melsop as well, could he be an option?
Speaker 1: And they have Austin pleasance on the roster to who
Speaker 1: they signed during the season after Rashaan went down. So
Speaker 1: there's a lot of pieces that need to be figured out.
Speaker 1: You know, they drafted Brendan Heimis a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: He's played tackle in college, but never in the NFL.
Speaker 1: I think if anything happens to either of the tackles,
Speaker 1: you know, during the regular season, I think the logical
Speaker 1: choice would be to put Jamari at either one of
Speaker 1: those spots and then move in one of the guards
Speaker 1: that you feel better about, whether it's mcmadden or Bailey
Speaker 1: or Heimas or maybe Will Clap pays Will Clap plays
Speaker 1: guard for you instead. That to me makes the most sense.
Speaker 1: But this team has also been really hesitant to move
Speaker 1: players positions right like they could have very easily moved
Speaker 1: Matt Feiler to write tackle several times over the last
Speaker 1: two seasons, and they never wanted to ruin the chemistry
Speaker 1: over there, right, So the planet backup tackle is very
Speaker 1: very interesting because they've they've collected all of these former
Speaker 1: tackles who they think play guard, who have played guard
Speaker 1: in the NFL, who had that flexibility. But the only
Speaker 1: real pure tackles that they have on the roster right
Speaker 1: now are for Shaun Slater, Trey Pipkins, and Foster Surrell.
Speaker 1: So I'm with you. I think this is a super
Speaker 1: underrated storyline heading into camp. And obviously we feel great
Speaker 1: about the starting lineup, but at some point, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's unfortunate, right, but at some point one of
Speaker 1: these offensive lineman's going to come off the bench, and
Speaker 1: how they fit in is just going to be really interesting,
Speaker 1: you think.
Speaker 2: I guess it makes sense given that I mean, Marshal's
Speaker 2: played left tackle. They literally saw him play left tackle
Speaker 2: last season, so you think that they would kick him
Speaker 2: out rather than put someone like McFadden at left tackle.
Speaker 1: I do. I think that that makes more sense than
Speaker 1: you know, Like if Rashawn goes down moving trade to
Speaker 1: the left, I think you'd rather keep him on the
Speaker 1: right side. If Tray goes down, you're definitely not moving
Speaker 1: Rashaan to the right side. So I think you want
Speaker 1: to minimize the movement and also maximize your output and
Speaker 1: so like to me, it's easier to replace Jamari at
Speaker 1: guard then it would be to replace or replace one
Speaker 1: of the rookies or one of the young guys with
Speaker 1: to Jamari at guard, then replace one of the one
Speaker 1: of the tackles with one of the younger guys. So
Speaker 1: to me, it just makes more sense to move Jamari.
Speaker 1: I think he's shown that ability several times in college
Speaker 1: and then obviously last year. Whether or not the team
Speaker 1: is comfortable with doing that again this year or not,
Speaker 1: I think his is The interesting.
Speaker 2: Thing for is we never have to have that question answered.
Speaker 2: We'll never know who cares. Everyone's healthy.
Speaker 1: Yes, it would be fantastic if all five players could
Speaker 1: start and finish every game this year. Would be great.
Speaker 1: All right, So my next question mark here. I guess
Speaker 1: we kind of hit on the offensive tackle piece a
Speaker 1: little bit here. I it's kind of a general regular
Speaker 1: season question, but I'm just super curious to see what
Speaker 1: happens throughout training camp with this Chargers defense in terms
Speaker 1: of how it is viewed, because I think right now
Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of pessimism on the outside world
Speaker 1: and within the fan base about how the defense has performed,
Speaker 1: and I get it there's not been enough consistency. But
Speaker 1: every single training camp we see the defense comes out strong.
Speaker 1: You know, they'll have some great moments. They'll you know,
Speaker 1: they'll pick off Justin Herbert a couple of times, just
Speaker 1: because that's how training camp generally works. You know, they're
Speaker 1: gonna get joint practice against Derek Carr right like that.
Speaker 1: It's not like they're gonna get joint practices against the
Speaker 1: Cowboys offense, who was, you know, one of the best
Speaker 1: offenses in the league last year. The Saints offense is
Speaker 1: probably not gonna be that. So how does the pendulum
Speaker 1: swing with this Chargers defense in terms of like people
Speaker 1: buying back into them during training camp is just something
Speaker 1: I'm curious to see because if you if you look
Speaker 1: at the last ten seasons, all of the teams who
Speaker 1: made a conference championship appearance, you generally have to be
Speaker 1: like a top twelve ish defense who really make it
Speaker 1: that far in the season, And most people don't feel
Speaker 1: that confident that the Chargers can reach that point. But
Speaker 1: we've seen, you know, things go that way pretty often.
Speaker 1: Defense is pretty fickles here. So if the defense really
Speaker 1: comes out strong, we hear all these great things about
Speaker 1: Joey and Khalil and Derwin and Asante and j C.
Speaker 1: Jackson's back healthy, does the pendulum start to swing back
Speaker 1: in the favor of a more optimistic light for the Charters.
Speaker 1: Defense is just something I'm.
Speaker 2: Here among the fan base, I would say so among
Speaker 2: us a little bit national media. I don't think they'd
Speaker 2: care to be completely honest. I think that they would
Speaker 2: want to see them go out and beat the Dolphins
Speaker 2: Week one, and then everything could change, right because not
Speaker 2: only did they go out and beat the Dolphins, and
Speaker 2: I'm assuming the defense helped out in this case, not
Speaker 2: only did they beat the Dolphins, but they beat Mike
Speaker 2: McDaniel again, and they stop Mike McDaniel, you know, the
Speaker 2: offensive genius guy again and ste it would be two
Speaker 2: to zero against Mike McDaniel in that regards. I think
Speaker 2: that's when the pendulum would start swinging. I think among
Speaker 2: fans will be excited. There's going to be, you know,
Speaker 2: weeks where the defense is going to be better than
Speaker 2: the offense. I wouldn't be surprised if the defense started
Speaker 2: out better than the offense, because one of these units
Speaker 2: is trying to learn an entire new thing with Kellen Moore.
Speaker 2: The other one, it's full of guys that have been
Speaker 2: there or they know daily, etc. So I think the
Speaker 2: defense will start a hop for training camp, but I
Speaker 2: don't think we're going to get any credit in the
Speaker 2: national media eyes until week one, and then you have
Speaker 2: to do it again. I mean again, look at the schedule.
Speaker 2: You gotta do it against the Cowboys on Monday night,
Speaker 2: you have to do it against the Chiefs. The next week,
Speaker 2: you have to do against Detroit, and you have to
Speaker 2: do against Baltimore. So I think it'll take some time,
Speaker 2: but I think that credit starts to be earned. I
Speaker 2: think that pendulum starts swinging after week one.
Speaker 1: So do you feel like there's anything that can happen
Speaker 1: in training camp that would maybe make you personally feel
Speaker 1: that the Chargers have achieved like a greater ceiling throughout
Speaker 1: the offseason. Throughout the preseason, you asked me about the
Speaker 1: whole team or the defense, just the defense.
Speaker 2: J C. Jackson is out there in training camp. I
Speaker 2: think if he is back out there and actually healthy
Speaker 2: as he again, people forget in training camp he was
Speaker 2: probably their best player last year. Then the surgery happened
Speaker 2: and everything changed, but people forget there was two or
Speaker 2: three weeks or whatever it was where he was amazing
Speaker 2: an outstanding defensive back. So if he's back out there
Speaker 2: and he's healthy, that would really change how I feel
Speaker 2: about this defense, because then it's just an embarrassment of
Speaker 2: riches in the secondary.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's that's fair. I think that is
Speaker 1: the one thing that can really change how people are
Speaker 1: talking about it in the preseason right like during the
Speaker 1: regular season, that's another conversation. But like I said, this
Speaker 1: is kind of a fan base thing. It's kind of
Speaker 1: a nus thing, and like there's just not a lot
Speaker 1: of optimism for the defense. Everybody's so excited for the offense,
Speaker 1: rightfully so, but the defense is just it's, I don't
Speaker 1: know what it is. Man Like, usually at this time
Speaker 1: of year, there's a lot of optimism excitement that builds
Speaker 1: around the whole team, but I feel like the vibe
Speaker 1: is always like, yeah, the offense is gonna be great,
Speaker 1: but yeah, the defense I'm not really super excited about it,
Speaker 1: so I'm just curious to see how long that pendulum
Speaker 1: takes to start swinging in the other direction once training camp.
Speaker 2: Actually, hopefully not too much during camp because the defense
Speaker 2: is dominating, that's great, but that means the offense isn't
Speaker 2: doing so hot. So hopefully it's a nice good.
Speaker 1: Back and forth. Yeah, yeah, all right, Tyler, what's your.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's continue with the quarterback here. Justin Herbert the passer.
Speaker 2: We know a lot about him, and we've talked about
Speaker 2: We had Sean on the show talked about these new
Speaker 2: or improved concepts with Kellen Moore. We know the guy
Speaker 2: can throw you know, strawberries through battleships or X wings
Speaker 2: through Star destroyers. But what are we going to see
Speaker 2: from Justin Herbert the runner? You know, remember in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one when Herbert would would drop back say, good jobs, dealers, defense,
Speaker 2: you have perfect coverage. That was a great call, and
Speaker 2: they did run all over them for ninety yards. Because
Speaker 2: he's six foot six, two forty and one of the
Speaker 2: most athletic quarterbacks in the NFL. You know, he's capable
Speaker 2: of so much, and in twenty twenty one, he was
Speaker 2: eleventh in yards after contact per attempt and ninth in
Speaker 2: yards per attempt, which is tied with Kyler Murray, which
Speaker 2: I don't think a lot of fans would associate those
Speaker 2: two guys together in terms of yards per attempt, but
Speaker 2: that's what it was. That's what Herbert can do. But
Speaker 2: that rib injury last year really broke Herbert's like, literally
Speaker 2: broke Herbert's capacity to be that same runner, because he
Speaker 2: dropped to second worst in yards after contact per attempt,
Speaker 2: only ahead of Tom Brady who's forty five, and third
Speaker 2: worst and yards per yeah, not great, and third worst
Speaker 2: in yards per attempt only ahead of Mac Jones and
Speaker 2: Tom Brady. So now he's healthy, he has the weapons
Speaker 2: to spread out the defense, and we believe that he
Speaker 2: has the line to protect him. So Dak Prescott under
Speaker 2: Kellen Moore typically between forty five to fifty rushes per
Speaker 2: season under killing Moore. So it's not like this is
Speaker 2: going to be, you know, Lamar Jackson in a thousand
Speaker 2: yards sort of thing. But I think Herbert runs you know,
Speaker 2: more rollouts, more designed bootlegs, et cetera than he ever
Speaker 2: has before, and I think he really rocks with that
Speaker 2: swagger that we saw him run with against Miami.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I'm glad you brought this up, because
Speaker 1: this was not one that I hadn't thought about. I mean,
Speaker 1: I like previously I've thought about you know, Justin Herbert
Speaker 1: the Runner, right, But Benjamin Solak and Stephen Ruiz for
Speaker 1: The Ringer are doing these great episodes every Friday, and
Speaker 1: one of the things that they ever evely talked about
Speaker 1: was quarterback mobility and how it's changed and affected, you know,
Speaker 1: offenses in twenty twenty two and leading into twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1: And not just the fact that you know, you can
Speaker 1: design run games around these guys, but the cheatko that
Speaker 1: scrambles are becoming specifically, and Justin Herbert's great outside of
Speaker 1: the pocket. We've seen him extend and play and do
Speaker 1: all that, right, But the amount of EPA generated from
Speaker 1: Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Jalen Hurts on scrambles last year
Speaker 1: it was like some of the most efficient football that
Speaker 1: could be played because it's just such a big cheat
Speaker 1: code right now for these guys to get outside the
Speaker 1: pocket and create. And I think Herbert will get a
Speaker 1: lot more design runs this year, for sure. I agree
Speaker 1: with you. The interesting part to me is also his
Speaker 1: ability to scramble, and I think offenses in general are
Speaker 1: becoming like it used to be. You know, quarterbabacks, drop
Speaker 1: backing of one, two, three, four checkdown. Right now, it's
Speaker 1: kind of like one two, maybe the good ones get
Speaker 1: to three and then everybody just starts running, And we
Speaker 1: don't really see that from Justin. We didn't see it
Speaker 1: from him last year. Definitely not last year, like you
Speaker 1: mentioned with the rib injuries. Does he kind of get
Speaker 1: back to that because that was a huge deal for
Speaker 1: his rookie season, it was a huge deal during twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one as well. It's his ability to get outside
Speaker 1: the pocket create those extra plays for the Chargers, and
Speaker 1: some of his best moments have come from that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff, you know, the last season when he was
Speaker 1: finally healthy, the scrambled drill to Keenan Allen against the Raiders,
Speaker 1: you know, and that right corner end zone. So I
Speaker 1: do think we'll see more of Justin Herbert the runner,
Speaker 1: like design wise, just because he's healthier, but like, the
Speaker 1: scramble drills are one of the biggest cheet codes in
Speaker 1: the sport right now, and I'm excited to see her.
Speaker 1: We'll get back to that, and just his his creation
Speaker 1: ability that we didn't really see a whole lot.
Speaker 2: As much as we don't like the Chiefs, I have
Speaker 2: to respect Patrick Mahomes for his ability to move. It's
Speaker 2: unfortunate to watch because the Chargers have been there. He's Shuich,
Speaker 2: but he's so good at football. It's amazing because he's
Speaker 2: arguably the best thrower, the best quarterback you know, throwing it,
Speaker 2: passing it in the NFL, and he was last year.
Speaker 2: But then, like even just watching him play, it's sometimes
Speaker 2: just the runs that break the defense more than anything
Speaker 2: else because I'll go, oh, you know, okay, all my
Speaker 2: guys are down there, Travis Kelsey's covered, Okay, I just
Speaker 2: runner for fifty runner twelve. So getting back to that
Speaker 2: would be great. And I think that now that Herbert
Speaker 2: is healthy and they have a good line, I think,
Speaker 2: a good system, it will also help them a bit
Speaker 2: out on those third slash fourth down decisions, because you
Speaker 2: saw it last year. Sometimes on third down, maybe there's
Speaker 2: an injury or there was a Herbert you know, rib injury,
Speaker 2: and he wouldn't be so keen on running it in
Speaker 2: those situations. They'd boot him out maybe, but then he'd
Speaker 2: have to dump it in the dirt. You know, couldn't
Speaker 2: quite take those hits because he was hurt. And then
Speaker 2: he had a torn lab ram later on, which also,
Speaker 2: again we can have a whole conversation about how often
Speaker 2: he should run because of those injuries. But on third down,
Speaker 2: if you're able to boot out Herbert gave him options
Speaker 2: down the field and he can run it, you feel
Speaker 2: better about your your prospects of then going for it
Speaker 2: on fourth down potentially because you've gotten close, story, you've
Speaker 2: lost nothing, etc. So I think it's just a big
Speaker 2: ripple effect. This team really needs Herbert to be able
Speaker 2: to run again. Not twenty times again, not ten times
Speaker 2: a game, but just those three or four times that
Speaker 2: are backbreakers. Huge for this team.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think we'll I'm I'm excited to see
Speaker 1: what kind of quarterback run game elements we can see
Speaker 1: with Kellen Moore on this team, because you know, I
Speaker 1: think he did a lot of great things with Dak,
Speaker 1: especially before Dak had his big injury. Right. If you
Speaker 1: go back and watch Kellen Moore's first season as offensive coordinator,
Speaker 1: there was a ton of Zone Reid opportunities for Dak
Speaker 1: that year, and his rushing ability was one of the
Speaker 1: key reasons why the Cowboys with that year were super
Speaker 1: effective on offense. So excited to see Herbert the runner
Speaker 1: back in twenty twenty three. Okay, next one for me,
Speaker 1: I think this is just kind of an interesting roster debate, right,
Speaker 1: and that's the quarterback two position behind Justin Herbert. And really,
Speaker 1: what can Max Duggan do this year to potentially dethrown
Speaker 1: Easton Stick? And I think the team has said all
Speaker 1: the right things regarding Easton Stick and his potential, right,
Speaker 1: They've they've always been high on him. You know, they
Speaker 1: brought Chase Daniel in because he was familiar with the offense.
Speaker 1: But now this is this is presum Eton Stick's job
Speaker 1: to lose, and they drafted Max Duggan and then the
Speaker 1: NFL passed the whole third quarterback rule in this category
Speaker 1: as well. So is this pretty clearly defined, like this
Speaker 1: is Easton Stick's job to lose? QB two is his
Speaker 1: and Max Duggin is he's just kind of taking a
Speaker 1: red shirt year he's kind of developing. Or is there
Speaker 1: a way that Max Duggan can catch Eastern Stick and
Speaker 1: be the quarterback too, So this is again this is
Speaker 1: probably way further down the list for a lot of people, right,
Speaker 1: But like when it comes to roster position battles, you know,
Speaker 1: the team always says they want competition in every position,
Speaker 1: and right now, there's just not a lot of Max
Speaker 1: dugg In buzz outside of maybe Fort Worth, Texas people
Speaker 1: who are big fans of his. So I just want
Speaker 1: to see what Max Duggin looks like in training camp. Man.
Speaker 1: I think that there's a lot of things that he
Speaker 1: does well that you can't see when people are in
Speaker 1: shorts and they can't hit him, you know, And so
Speaker 1: I think that his just the gamer mentality I think
Speaker 1: is more prone to come out in a setting like
Speaker 1: training camp in a preseason game, and I'm curious how
Speaker 1: much weight that would carry in the presumably.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's also very curious, and I'm curious to see
Speaker 2: how Kellen Moore evaluates backup quarterbacks because I think with
Speaker 2: Joel Lombardi and this makes sense anyway, I'm sure this
Speaker 2: is across the league very similar. They wanted the game manager, right,
Speaker 2: Is Chase Daniel the game break or quarterback? Probably not,
Speaker 2: although he had some good runs, so you know, Hey,
Speaker 2: I'll give it to him, but he's not Eastern Stick.
Speaker 1: He had like a forty yard carry in the preseason.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and hey that was awesome.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 2: He won the quarterback two jobs, so maybe there's that.
Speaker 2: But I'm curious if Kellen Moore will lean towards more
Speaker 2: Eastern Stick, who I think right now because he's been
Speaker 2: in the NFL, he's been on the team, played for
Speaker 2: the Chargers, like, I think he not that he's a
Speaker 2: game manager, but I feel like I'm more confident in
Speaker 2: saying that he could manage a game in the preseason
Speaker 2: better than Max Duggan right now because he's been in
Speaker 2: the NFL. But would Kellen Moore prefer someone like Huggan
Speaker 2: who would go out and let's say, generate more EPA
Speaker 2: per play or EPA for the entire offense, because even
Speaker 2: last year, Chase Daniel as a game manager earned more
Speaker 2: EPA than Easton Stick, which I know is kind of
Speaker 2: wild to think about, but that was kind of it,
Speaker 2: like chunk plays for Eastern Stick versus Chase Daniel and
Speaker 2: kind of death by a thousand cuts sort of thing.
Speaker 2: And of course, yes, a forty yard rush in the preseason,
Speaker 2: so you know, which way do they lean. They obviously
Speaker 2: like Duggan, they drafted him, and I think an underrated
Speaker 2: component of that is that he does have chemistry with
Speaker 2: players on the team. Eastan Stick does obviously because he's
Speaker 2: been here, but Max Duggan, he knows Darius Davis, he
Speaker 2: knows Quinton Johnston. So I think there's going to be
Speaker 2: some chemistry there that will help things as well. So
Speaker 2: is it the most, you know, the most pressing storyline.
Speaker 2: Maybe not. Again, I hope I never see them play
Speaker 2: on the field in the regular season because I want
Speaker 2: Justin Herbert to be out there for one hundred percent
Speaker 2: of the snaps. But I'm really curious how they evaluate
Speaker 2: these two and what they do differently than each other
Speaker 2: to distinguish themselves from the other.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there was a lot of, you know,
Speaker 1: putting the quarterbacks into a specific box and like what
Speaker 1: Joe Lombardi was looking for, you know, under the previous regime,
Speaker 1: we didn't we didn't really see that a whole lot
Speaker 1: like Cardil Jones got to do Cardil Jones and eisen
Speaker 1: Stick got to do Stick and Tyrod got to do Tyrod.
Speaker 1: Like it was it was more like playing to their
Speaker 1: strengths when they were in but with the previous regime,
Speaker 1: it was like, Okay, you both are gonna run the
Speaker 1: exact offense. We want you to do the exact same things,
Speaker 1: and we'll see who's better at that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: And so I think this this regime with with Kellen
Speaker 1: and obviously Doug Messmeyer, I'm curious to see how that
Speaker 1: battle takes shape. And also just in general, like the
Speaker 1: thing now with the three quarterbacks, nobody really ever tried
Speaker 1: to replicate the Taysom Hill thing in New Orleans, mostly
Speaker 1: because Taysom Hill is built like a tight end, like naturally,
Speaker 1: and he's a freak athlete. But now that there's kind
Speaker 1: of quarterback insurance built in, I'm curious if anybody really
Speaker 1: kind of experiments with like a Taysom Hill esque role,
Speaker 1: more so now because you have that kind of safety
Speaker 1: net in having the third quarterback role. So that's that's
Speaker 1: less a charters thing and more of like a general
Speaker 1: NFL thing, because I don't want kel Moore to take
Speaker 1: Justin Herbert off the field to do you know, gadgety things.
Speaker 1: But you know, maybe other teams who don't have a
Speaker 1: quarterback situation settle might be looking at their third quarterback
Speaker 1: and I mean thatky Man. That guy can run, like
Speaker 1: let's do some things with him. So that's a general
Speaker 1: football curiosity, not really Chargers related, but had to talk
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And Max Duggan is someone who can run
Speaker 2: the football very very well. So I'm not saying that's
Speaker 2: the only thing that Taysom Hill does, but you could
Speaker 2: do some things with him. And Easton Stick is very
Speaker 2: very athletic, so we've seen that on display. Yeah, that
Speaker 2: could be fun for sure.
Speaker 1: All right, Tyler, what's your next question?
Speaker 2: The one that literally has to be answered? Who starts
Speaker 2: in the slot the Chargers. We talked about how an
Speaker 2: embarrassment of riches at defensive back because they could play
Speaker 2: a Santi Cimo junior here, who we just saw have
Speaker 2: one of the greatest defense back performances I've seen in
Speaker 2: Chargers history with three interceptions in one half. Or they
Speaker 2: could take j. C. Jackson and move him to the
Speaker 2: slot on like an as needed basis because he has
Speaker 2: before and I'm sure that's what Brandon Staley would like
Speaker 2: to do. On occasion. You could put well, I don't know,
Speaker 2: Derwin James in the slot because he can cover anybody
Speaker 2: in the slot. You know, from George Kittle and Camp
Speaker 2: we've seen before to Keenan Allen to Travis Kelcey. I
Speaker 2: know that there was that touchdown that Derwin James allowed
Speaker 2: to Travis Kelcey, and that's you know, that's rough, obviously,
Speaker 2: and he'd like to have that back. But across two games,
Speaker 2: he only allowed forty two yards to Travis Kelcey. That's
Speaker 2: pretty darn good. And then you have John Taylor who
Speaker 2: went from Day three pick, you know, to a late
Speaker 2: Day three pick to camp standout and then special teams
Speaker 2: ace and then kind of helping the Chargers win against
Speaker 2: the Broncos to holding his own against Miami again against
Speaker 2: Mike McDaniel in just his rookie year against some really,
Speaker 2: really good wide receivers. So I'm curious who's going to
Speaker 2: play in the slot, because one guy has to play
Speaker 2: the majority. I don't think it's going to be one
Speaker 2: guy for one hundred percent of the snaps. Right, we
Speaker 2: just talked about all those all these different players they
Speaker 2: can mix and match, and Brendan Stealely is going to
Speaker 2: mix and match because there's no reason to not put J. C.
Speaker 2: Durwin et cetera. In the slot. But who's going to
Speaker 2: be that guy? And that might change throughout the season
Speaker 2: as well. Right, the corner room has shifted a bit,
Speaker 2: you know, it was very different from what they were
Speaker 2: in training camp in the preseason. But to start the season,
Speaker 2: who's going to be that guy? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think this is probably the biggest most important question
Speaker 1: that needs to be answered during training camp, specifically on defense.
Speaker 1: Like you mentioned earlier, you know, jac Jackson and him
Speaker 1: being healthy changes the ceiling of this defense. Right. Well,
Speaker 1: the good thing about jac Jackson is that he's logged
Speaker 1: over four hundred snaps in the slot in his career,
Speaker 1: most of that obviously coming in New England last year
Speaker 1: with the charge. He's mostly, you know, an outside cornerback,
Speaker 1: but he's done that in the past. Sande Sandon Junior
Speaker 1: hasn't logged a ton of snaps in the slot. I
Speaker 1: think it's like eighteen or nineteen in his career, but
Speaker 1: he did that at Florida State. They've been cross training
Speaker 1: him since they drafted him to play that kind of role.
Speaker 1: Just here, Taylor Derwin James, like you outlined, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe this is a space where Rahem Wayne can carve
Speaker 1: out a role as well. Dyon Henley can play in
Speaker 1: the slot, So the Chargers have options here. They needed
Speaker 1: to get settled because I think there's a situation here
Speaker 1: where a very talented corner is not playing one hundred
Speaker 1: percent in the snaps like we're used to seeing, and
Speaker 1: that probably catches people by surprise, you know. I think
Speaker 1: outside of Michael Davis, any of these corners can move
Speaker 1: around and play any position. You know. I think Derwin
Speaker 1: James I would love to see him get more reps
Speaker 1: in the slot because I think he's a fantastic slot defender.
Speaker 1: The Chargers probably need a better safety room behind him
Speaker 1: to make that more plausible, but he can do that
Speaker 1: role and I think that plays to his strength. So
Speaker 1: how this position battle, presumably between Jessea Taylor and a
Speaker 1: Santa Samon Jr. Maybe j C. Jackson plays out, I
Speaker 1: think is the most important roster battle because if just
Speaker 1: here is the better slock corner again, we're just like
Speaker 1: outside Definitely I'm taking a Sante right. Asante is a
Speaker 1: legitimately top tier outside corner. We don't know what he
Speaker 1: can do in the slot, and people are talking about
Speaker 1: it like that's just gonna translate one to one. We
Speaker 1: don't know that. So how does everybody react to potentially
Speaker 1: just here Taylor being cornerback four? If just here Taylor
Speaker 1: is a clearly better slot corner is an interesting thing
Speaker 1: to talk about. Again, outside corner. I'm taking a sante
Speaker 1: all day here, but we don't know what he looks
Speaker 1: like in the slot. We haven't seen it. We've seen
Speaker 1: just see her. Taylor play some up and down football.
Speaker 1: But the ups were pretty good, man. I mean he
Speaker 1: shut Jayalen Walla down pretty nice in that game. So
Speaker 1: in terms of roster battles, definitely the biggest question here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'll be exciting. I really hope the defense plays
Speaker 2: on the fans side of the field so I can
Speaker 2: watch these two go out and rotate in and see
Speaker 2: what they can do, because it's gonna be fun. And
Speaker 2: this is a very very important position on the team. Sure,
Speaker 2: all all pieces of the defense are. But we've been
Speaker 2: talking so much and fans are asking me so much
Speaker 2: about how's the run game going to get better? How's
Speaker 2: the run defense going to get better? And that starts
Speaker 2: in the slot. You know what was some of the mistakes.
Speaker 2: I guess that happened last season, so we'll see who
Speaker 2: they pick.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think a small part of me has
Speaker 1: always thought that at his best, maybe JC takes a
Speaker 1: pretty sizable role in the slot. Brandon State Thing obviously
Speaker 1: made a name for himself as the Rams defensive coordinator.
Speaker 1: One of the things that the Rams did that really
Speaker 1: helped them become that top defense was put Jaylen Ramsey
Speaker 1: in the slot, and if you look at his play
Speaker 1: in the slot that year, he was probably the best
Speaker 1: slot corner in the league. Again, he's got a very
Speaker 1: unique body type for a corner because he can do
Speaker 1: all of that and he can play like a linebacker,
Speaker 1: you can play like a corner. If you hear him
Speaker 1: speak about his past, the Chargers thought of him as
Speaker 1: a safety prospect. So Jayleen Ramsey has a very unique
Speaker 1: body type. Jac Jackson doesn't share that same charistic but
Speaker 1: he's again logged four hundred snaps in the slot, So
Speaker 1: I think you have a lot of built in flexibility here.
Speaker 1: But there's going to be a point where a role
Speaker 1: is defined as a starter and a role is defined
Speaker 1: as CB four, and how that plays out is going
Speaker 1: to be very very interesting.
Speaker 2: I didn't know that's so you said jac Jackson they
Speaker 2: thought of him as a safety or Jalen Ramsey.
Speaker 1: No, Jayalen Ramsey talked about this on the I think
Speaker 1: it was the Pivot podcast that when he was going
Speaker 1: through the pre draft process, the Chargers told him, again,
Speaker 1: this would have been with this was still when they
Speaker 1: were in San Diego. Who was the defensive coordinator.
Speaker 2: In twenty sixteen, Pagano?
Speaker 1: Pagano? Is that still Pogano? I don't know. Anyways, Jalen
Speaker 1: Ramsey told the story that the Chargers were going to
Speaker 1: draft him as a safety if they ultimately decided to
Speaker 1: draft him, and then they decided to draft Joey instead.
Speaker 1: But he he's told the story that if he were
Speaker 1: going to be a Charger, he would have come in
Speaker 1: as a safety.
Speaker 2: Interesting, Well, we'll never know.
Speaker 1: No, we won't because he got drafted to Jacksonville. So yeah,
Speaker 1: like I said, biggest position battle right there for me.
Speaker 1: I think my last question here is just gonna be
Speaker 1: summed up as the twenty twenty two draft class because
Speaker 1: I think we know what we have in Zion, we
Speaker 1: know what we have in Jamari, but everybody else is
Speaker 1: kind of an uncertainty in this group. Again, I think
Speaker 1: we're higher on just here that more so than most
Speaker 1: people are. You know, Xander Horrath got a really hot
Speaker 1: start to the season and then for whatever reason, didn't
Speaker 1: really get to play. He played great on special teams,
Speaker 1: but didn't really get to carve out a role on offense.
Speaker 1: Dean Leonard didn't really get to carve out a role
Speaker 1: on defense. And then obviously the big ones are j T.
Speaker 1: Woods and Isaiah Spiller, again, guys who are seemingly doing
Speaker 1: all the work necessary to take those steps in development,
Speaker 1: but it's it's a lot of question marks for my liking.
Speaker 1: We have two great players obviously in Zion and Jamari,
Speaker 1: but who becomes that third, you know, second year player
Speaker 1: to take that leap? I think is a super important
Speaker 1: aspect of this upcoming season because I think we all
Speaker 1: really like the top of the Chargers roster, but that
Speaker 1: middle part we need some players to come in and
Speaker 1: step up. And whether that's you know, a running back
Speaker 1: three coming in and season a role, whether that's a
Speaker 1: safety three like JT. Woods, you know, proving he can
Speaker 1: be that reliable piece, I think is definitely an important
Speaker 1: question that needs to be answered in training camp in
Speaker 1: the preseason.
Speaker 2: Yeah, JT. Woods has more talent in his pinky finger
Speaker 2: than I think ninety percent of the world does. That's undeniable.
Speaker 2: He's one of the most athletic players on the Charges roster.
Speaker 2: I remember looking it up. I think he's like the
Speaker 2: third most athletic in terms of RAS their most athletic
Speaker 2: safety the Charge have ever dropped in their entire history.
Speaker 2: And at his college Dape, which I think people frag him. Two,
Speaker 2: he's so smart. You watch him in college and even
Speaker 2: for a guy who is kind of between football and track,
Speaker 2: he was so good at processing, not just against the
Speaker 2: past but also in the run game too. But last
Speaker 2: year in the NFL, his rookie season, it just wasn't
Speaker 2: as successful as I think he wanted it to be
Speaker 2: or anybody wanted it to be. And that came down
Speaker 2: to mistackles processing again, the speed of the NFL, it's
Speaker 2: very different. And then not working into special teams. So
Speaker 2: you know, heading into year two with your Ryan Ficken
Speaker 2: on special teams or now promoted Derek Ensley and Tom
Speaker 2: Donotel obviously Brandon Staate, like, do they have renewed faith
Speaker 2: in him? Can he earn that trust throughout training camp.
Speaker 2: I hope so, because he's supremely talented.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's not something that like changes the Chargers
Speaker 1: scene on defense, but like him hitting his stride this year,
Speaker 1: it would be a huge positive outcome for this defense
Speaker 1: because turnovers are so valuable and his ability to create
Speaker 1: those turnovers is really unique to that safety room because
Speaker 1: Derwin can create turnovers, but it's it's generally like fight.
Speaker 2: JT.
Speaker 1: Woods coming in and being somebody that could you know,
Speaker 1: get four or five interceptions on the season, like that
Speaker 1: changes games, right, Like those interceptions could be extremely valuable
Speaker 1: for this defense. So JT. I think has the potential
Speaker 1: to be a player who can really turn the tides
Speaker 1: for this defense. Whether or not that comes to fruition
Speaker 1: really depends on him. It depends on maybe Raheem Lane
Speaker 1: is just comes out of know right, Maybe Rahem Lane
Speaker 1: is a breakout star this year for this defense. You know,
Speaker 1: we'll see what happens.
Speaker 2: But j T.
Speaker 1: Woods has the potential. We've seen it, you know. I
Speaker 1: think people will point to like his mistackle rate in college,
Speaker 1: but he was always in those positions. Like me and
Speaker 1: you had this conversation in Las Vegas when we were
Speaker 1: watching his game tape with Argen after the Charges drafted him.
Speaker 1: Even if he missed the tackle, he was always right there,
Speaker 1: good position, good form, good technique. It was just like
Speaker 1: one little like minor tweak here and there that he
Speaker 1: would that would result in the mistackle. So I I
Speaker 1: still think that there's a world where JT can hit,
Speaker 1: but it's it's a question mark, right, Like he has
Speaker 1: to come in and do the work, and he has
Speaker 1: to prove that he can belong on the field and listen,
Speaker 1: like Justin Humbert is going to take some chances in
Speaker 1: training camp. We know this, this is how quarterbacks progress.
Speaker 1: But JT has to be on the receiving end. We've
Speaker 1: seen time and time again. A guy like Mark Webb
Speaker 1: comes to mind, Like it was you know when he
Speaker 1: was a rookie, he had like three interceptions that first
Speaker 1: week of practice, right, and then last year, same kind
Speaker 1: of thing. So there's gonna be opportunities for these defensive
Speaker 1: backs to make plays on the football and JT needs
Speaker 1: to come down with them and prove that he can
Speaker 1: earn that role. Because safety three for the Chargers, like
Speaker 1: you're gonna play three hundred four hundred snaps in that
Speaker 1: role and potentially more if there's an injury, But you
Speaker 1: know that's that's a super key role that needs to
Speaker 1: be sorted out this in this Yeah.
Speaker 2: I'd love to close things out there and at least
Speaker 2: on my end with Edge three rather than Safety three.
Speaker 2: And this has been snowballing of it for me, and
Speaker 2: I keep thinking of it and I can't get her
Speaker 2: out of my brains. I want to talk about it.
Speaker 2: Does Chris rumf eaten to more Edge three steps and
Speaker 2: playing tim than we're talking about We literally just talked
Speaker 2: about this, but I don't think it's being discussed enough because,
Speaker 2: as we've talked about on our show before, and I
Speaker 2: even got to talk to Morgan Fox about this a
Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago, the Chargers two best four man
Speaker 2: fronts in terms of pressure rates involved Chris Rump. It
Speaker 2: was three other guys and Chris Rump. And we know
Speaker 2: that Brandon Staley loves to work stunts out of them.
Speaker 2: The stunt rate with Chris Rump on the field in
Speaker 2: those fore man groups was really really high, and their
Speaker 2: most effective fore man group with Chris Rump had a
Speaker 2: pressure rate of almost seventy percent, which is the second
Speaker 2: best among any grouping in the entire NFL. And Morgan
Speaker 2: Fox when I asked him about this, he talked about,
Speaker 2: you know, the more that they worked together and the
Speaker 2: more they understood how to rush with one another, the
Speaker 2: better they got. So you know, Tully's going to play
Speaker 2: a ton, but he is very young, and I would
Speaker 2: I would just watch off of Chris Rump's usages this
Speaker 2: year because I don't think you take those stats and
Speaker 2: a seventy percent pressure rate, granted not on one hundred snaps,
Speaker 2: but you don't take that seventy cent pressure rate and
Speaker 2: what you can do with stunts and just throw that away,
Speaker 2: and you don't take that progress that you've made and
Speaker 2: just throw it away. Because they've really developed as a unit,
Speaker 2: and if Chris Rump is a big part of that
Speaker 2: and a big part of their effectiveness, he needs to
Speaker 2: be out there rushing the passer. So again, I think
Speaker 2: Tully probably plays the most edge three snaps, but I
Speaker 2: think that Chris Rump is going to eat at more
Speaker 2: of those I guess edge three snaps. Then I think
Speaker 2: maybe we're all talking about.
Speaker 1: I think that's fair. I mean, pass rushers take a
Speaker 1: while to develop, right, Like this is a trend that
Speaker 1: we see come to fruition across the league. You know,
Speaker 1: this is Chris Rump's third season, this is really his
Speaker 1: first off season. I think Coach Ed talked about this
Speaker 1: like the off season after your second year is really
Speaker 1: the first time where you feel like comfortable in your
Speaker 1: own skin and your own training regimen. All of this
Speaker 1: stuff kind of comes together. So, you know, Chris Ruff
Speaker 1: had some really positive signs during the preseason last year,
Speaker 1: particularly against the Rams in that preseason game, I thought
Speaker 1: he played fantastic. You know, less of meat on the
Speaker 1: bone during the season one hundred percent. I think he
Speaker 1: would admit that too. You know, there were times where
Speaker 1: he would make he would do a great pass rush
Speaker 1: move or shed a block at a really high level
Speaker 1: and just not make the play. So if he's able
Speaker 1: to make those plays, then definitely you got to keep
Speaker 1: that guy on the field. And you know, something we've
Speaker 1: talked about is kind of lightening the load on Khalil
Speaker 1: Mack and Joey Bosa. And if you have too Le
Speaker 1: and Chris brumf both kind of hitting their stride, that's
Speaker 1: a great problem to have. You know, having four pass
Speaker 1: rushers that can play meaningful football for you is definitely
Speaker 1: a blessing, So I agree with that. I think, you
Speaker 1: know two, Ley's kind of the favorite for sure for
Speaker 1: that position. But similar to josh Palmer, I don't think
Speaker 1: Chris Brump just like hands it to him like Quenton
Speaker 1: Johnson and Tuli are gonna have to earn these roles
Speaker 1: because Joshua Palmer and because Chris Rump are going to
Speaker 1: be nipping at their heels. Is because they don't want
Speaker 1: to lose those jobs. They don't want to lose them snaps,
Speaker 1: and it is gonna be fun to see how that
Speaker 1: that edge group comes to.
Speaker 2: I don't know if we'll really get the answer to
Speaker 2: this question until the regular season and far into the
Speaker 2: regular season, but still I am very curious because Chris
Speaker 2: rum should probably be out there as edge three to start,
Speaker 2: So how long does he maintain that status for and
Speaker 2: does he really carry that potentially all the way into
Speaker 2: Week one?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's fair because you don't want to
Speaker 1: just hand a role to too lee. You want him
Speaker 1: to earn it too, So I think that is fair.
Speaker 1: All right, Tyler Man, that was a great discussion. Hopefully
Speaker 1: you guys enjoyed that. Again, this is the meat of
Speaker 1: the off season, so hopefully you are enjoying the off
Speaker 1: season content that we are providing. Special thanks to Brian
Speaker 1: for producing the show today, Special thanks to everybody for
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Speaker 1: Appreciate all the support there that's going to do it
Speaker 1: for us. Hopefully you guys have a great fourth of
Speaker 1: July and we'll see you next week.