Speaker 1: Welcome back, everybody. It's the Fantasy Pros Dynasty Fantasy Football Podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Scott Bogmin. Follow me on Twitter at
Speaker 1: Bogman Sports. I've joined as always by Pat Fitzmorris at
Speaker 1: fits Underscore FF on the Twitter Machine. We're here to
Speaker 1: talk some tight ends today. We got some Scott Fish
Speaker 1: Bowl drafts coming up. Like FITZI, I know you are
Speaker 1: ready to rock that one premium tight end stuff. So
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk some tight ends today.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: That's right, only fitting with the Scott Fishbowl drafts coming
Speaker 3: up and the emphasis on tight ends since Scott Fish
Speaker 3: himself loves the tight end position, as does the guy
Speaker 3: we have here with us as our guests this week.
Speaker 3: Probably no one better to have on a tight end
Speaker 3: show than this guy, so I'm really excited to chop
Speaker 3: it up with him.
Speaker 1: Coop Andrew Cooper, the lead analyst, the NFL analyst over
Speaker 1: at Fantasy Alarm. You're twenty twenty one fsw A Football
Speaker 1: Writer of the Year. Coop. What is going on? Man?
Speaker 1: You're ready to talk some tight ends.
Speaker 2: I love this topic and I love hanging out with
Speaker 2: you guys. I'll tell you that what's funny is. People
Speaker 2: will hit me up and they'll be like, come on
Speaker 2: the show, and you know, I know you're probably tired
Speaker 2: of talking tight ends and we'll talk something else. I'm like, no, dude,
Speaker 2: I'm like, that's my bread and butter. Like why you
Speaker 2: like have me on. We'll talk about the thing that
Speaker 2: I do the most research on, that I care about
Speaker 2: the most, and that is you know, obviously, I you know,
Speaker 2: I don't have any leagues that are just tight ends,
Speaker 2: So I have research on every player, but this is
Speaker 2: one of the ones that I have a reputation to uphold.
Speaker 2: So uh yeah, I'm proud to be on here talking
Speaker 2: tight ends with you two boys. Let's get to it.
Speaker 1: Well, that that is perfect. We're going to go over
Speaker 1: the top twenty four in ECR in terms of dynasty rankings,
Speaker 1: talk about our differences, talk about where we're all different,
Speaker 1: where we all are the same, all that kind of
Speaker 1: good stuff. So let's get to it and start with
Speaker 1: the the tight end number ones one through twelve. I
Speaker 1: will list them off and then I'll tell you guys
Speaker 1: about the differences and similarities that we have in this group.
Speaker 1: The number one dynasty tight end according to ECR is
Speaker 1: Kyle Pitts. Number two is Mark Andrews. Number three is
Speaker 1: Travis Kelce and we are all different on their rankings,
Speaker 1: which is a little surprising. TJ. Hawkinson comes in at
Speaker 1: number four, Kittle is number five, Dallas Goddard is six.
Speaker 1: Your top half of tight end ones, your bottom half
Speaker 1: seven to twelve is Pat Furmouth, Dalton Kinkaid, the rookie,
Speaker 1: David and Joku at nine, Darren Waller at ten, Greg
Speaker 1: Dolkitch at eleven, and Michael Mayer another rookie at twelve.
Speaker 1: So Coop, I want to start with you here because
Speaker 1: we are all different. We all have a different tight end. One.
Speaker 1: I know the difference for fits and I is philosophy
Speaker 1: because I even in Dynasty, I work in a smaller window.
Speaker 1: I work in a three year window over the next
Speaker 1: three years. Even if Kelsey plays one year and retires,
Speaker 1: he might still be the best tight end of all
Speaker 1: these guys over the next three years because of how
Speaker 1: dominant he is let all tight ends in receiving yards
Speaker 1: by I think it was twenty three receptions, four hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty four yards a bunch of touchdowns last year.
Speaker 1: So he's still great, but he's long in the tooth.
Speaker 1: So for Dynasty, I understand Pittsburg getting that. You know,
Speaker 1: number one rank number one in ECR most people are
Speaker 1: looking at long term, but you have Mark Andrews at
Speaker 1: number one. I respect that. I really like Mark Andrews.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm a Texas guy. He went to Oklahoma,
Speaker 1: I'm a Steelers fan. He's a Raven. But we did
Speaker 1: go to the same high school. So that's a little
Speaker 1: interesting factoid about Mark Andrews and I. But your thoughts
Speaker 1: on Mark Andrews and why is he at number one
Speaker 1: for Dynasty?
Speaker 2: For you, Coop, and honestly for people out there, I
Speaker 2: have no problem with them ranking any one of those
Speaker 2: three guys number one based on the way you like
Speaker 2: to play. Like you said, and for future reference with
Speaker 2: Travis Kelsey, you don't need to throw any stats out.
Speaker 2: The argument for Travis Kelcey is Travis Kelcey. That's the
Speaker 2: entire argument, right. So for me, I'm kind of like you.
Speaker 2: I play to win. I'm always whenever I do a startup,
Speaker 2: I'm going to play to win. That's why my top
Speaker 2: ten I start by saying, okay, who could finish top five?
Speaker 2: And all those guys are going to go up towards
Speaker 2: the top. Who can finish top five this year? That's
Speaker 2: what I care most about, right, it's too hard to
Speaker 2: read the tea leaves any deeper and just for everybody
Speaker 2: out there to make it real quick, I have a
Speaker 2: simple system for Dynasty. I use. It's called sort start opportunity,
Speaker 2: roster talent. If you're playing to win now, you need
Speaker 2: to start opportunity. And sometimes at this position, guys that
Speaker 2: maybe aren't the most talented have the opportunity and that's
Speaker 2: how they finish in the top. Right. Look at Eric
Speaker 2: Ebron with Andrew low catching all those touchdowns, or Logan
Speaker 2: Thomas in twenty twenty. So that's what I do. But
Speaker 2: again on the bench, you want as many talented guys
Speaker 2: as possible, but you might have to wait a little bit.
Speaker 2: Dallas Goddard stuck behind Zach Ertz for four years, de
Speaker 2: Lamy Walker stuck behind Vernon Davis for one hundred years.
Speaker 2: I think it was seven years right before he broke out.
Speaker 2: So you stash those guys for me. Mark Andrews right now,
Speaker 2: he just fits perfectly in between the age apex for
Speaker 2: you know, running back has this all over the place
Speaker 2: and feeling like a guy's turned twenty eight, they're dead.
Speaker 2: But with tight end that's kind of the age Apex.
Speaker 2: Travis Kelsey didn't have a thousand yard season until he
Speaker 2: was twenty seven. Zach Ertz had won one thousand yard
Speaker 2: season in his entire career when he was twenty eight
Speaker 2: years old. Right, So the fact that Kyle Pitts and
Speaker 2: Mark Andrews have already done that, and Andrews is hitting
Speaker 2: the AJA picks now, Kyle Pitts hasn't been hit it yet.
Speaker 2: That's what puts Andrews at one, Pits at two, and
Speaker 2: Kelsey at three. But if you were the guy that's
Speaker 2: going out and drafting Christian McCaffrey and at sake one Barkley,
Speaker 2: then you should have Travis Kelsey one because your win now, right.
Speaker 2: So Yeah, that's the fun part about Dynasty is that they're.
Speaker 1: So everybody has a different strategy, so many leaguers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not like redraft. Redraft is win this year, and
Speaker 1: that's that you can go many different ways. In FITSI,
Speaker 1: you have Kyle Pitts at number one, and look, it
Speaker 1: makes sense and people complain about Kyle Pitts in his
Speaker 1: season last year is still very good even though Atlanta
Speaker 1: wasn't throwing the ball at all. And you know it's
Speaker 1: the previous season he had over a thousand yards just
Speaker 1: about getting in the end zone for him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know Pitts had the injury last year,
Speaker 3: he had a an abundance of uncatchable targets. But like,
Speaker 3: I do find it interesting with these three tight ends
Speaker 3: and how people sort them out. I think it tells
Speaker 3: you a lot about how people play Dynasty, how they
Speaker 3: rank these three players, because I think you could make
Speaker 3: a case for ordering these guys in any different way.
Speaker 3: But it is kind of a Goldilocks in the three
Speaker 3: bear situation with the bowls of porridge, and it's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, Travis Kelcey has this impeccable production profile with
Speaker 3: virtually no blemishes on it, like durable. You know he's
Speaker 3: going to produce. He's got the best quarterback in the
Speaker 3: game throwing to him, but he's teetering kind of close
Speaker 3: to the edge cliff here, and you don't know exactly
Speaker 3: how long you're you're going to get out of him,
Speaker 3: And you know, the actual areial tables really aren't on
Speaker 3: your side with Travis kelce Then you've got Pits, who's
Speaker 3: got some short term obstacles here, the you know, quarterback situation,
Speaker 3: the run heaviness of Arthur Smith and the Falcons offense.
Speaker 3: But you know, he's this terrific young talent and he's
Speaker 3: going to be in the league producing for another ten
Speaker 3: years probably. And then you've got like, you know, the
Speaker 3: hot porridge the cold porridge. And then maybe Mark Andrews
Speaker 3: is just right because it's that balance. He's that you know,
Speaker 3: sort of peak age, you know, so like you don't
Speaker 3: have to worry about him tumbling over the age cliff.
Speaker 3: And uh, you know, the production not quite Kelsey level,
Speaker 3: but still really really good.
Speaker 2: And I think you, I think you sum up with
Speaker 2: the way a lot of fantasy gamers, the way we
Speaker 2: feel when you call Desmond Ritter an obstacle in Arthur
Speaker 2: Smith cold porridge. Right now, with that, you know, if
Speaker 2: you look scorging hot, right if you love if you
Speaker 2: love Pitts in London, you hate Arthur Smith, that that
Speaker 2: is for sure.
Speaker 1: Before we move on to more tight ends here, I
Speaker 1: gotta tell you guys, if you want to win a
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Speaker 1: pretty soon as well. Fits correct, We.
Speaker 3: Are bogs a lot of stages on discord with the
Speaker 3: Fantasy Pros analysts, so you know, you can come on,
Speaker 3: pick our brains, ask us questions in the chat, come
Speaker 3: up and talk to us. We're all going to be
Speaker 3: doing the regular weekly stages pretty much from now until
Speaker 3: starting next week, right up until the start of the
Speaker 3: regular season, and then you know we'll also be doing
Speaker 3: them during the regular season.
Speaker 1: Hoop, I want to ask you about TJ. Hawkinson. We
Speaker 1: all have him at four. He seems, you know, pretty
Speaker 1: consensus here behind those top three you also mentioned. I
Speaker 1: don't care if any if anybody has those top three
Speaker 1: guys ranked at one, is someone crazy to put Hawkinson
Speaker 1: over those top three? Is he closer to that top
Speaker 1: tier or is he closer to the next tier in ECR, which,
Speaker 1: by the way, you can find it over at Fantasy Pros.
Speaker 1: If you guys want to take a look at these
Speaker 1: ECRs and get them up to date, go to his
Speaker 1: Fantasy Pros and check them out. But at four, is
Speaker 1: he closer to that Pitts andrews Kelsey tier or closer
Speaker 1: to the Kittle Goddter Pat Firmouth tier.
Speaker 2: So for me, he's closer to that the second tier.
Speaker 2: But what you have to ask yourself is how you
Speaker 2: feel about Jordan Assen because the vast majority of tight
Speaker 2: ends that both finish at top five and offer consistency
Speaker 2: from week to week, which is a big thing. Like
Speaker 2: Evan Ingram, you know, he finished top five, but he
Speaker 2: wasn't the most consistent and he wasn't the top two
Speaker 2: target on the team. So you got to look at
Speaker 2: it and say, Okay, if I don't love Addison and
Speaker 2: I think TJ. Hockinson can do what he did last year,
Speaker 2: which down the stretch, I mean we're talking eight nine
Speaker 2: ten targets a game, right, and Adam Thielen was the
Speaker 2: one that fell off a little bit during that stretch.
Speaker 2: Then you love them, But if you're in on Jordan Dison,
Speaker 2: it's kind of tough to be in on all three
Speaker 2: of these guys. The Vikings last year were actually the
Speaker 2: only team in the league, according to Pro Football Focus,
Speaker 2: that had three guys get over one hundred targets. And
Speaker 2: during that span when Hawk was there, Adam Fineling wasn't
Speaker 2: really on a hundred target pace. That's the real problem there.
Speaker 2: That's the rub is that it's very rare, even in
Speaker 2: the seventeen game season, to have three guys get one
Speaker 2: hundred targets. So that's the game we play here. If
Speaker 2: you love Jordan Addison, you might have to be out
Speaker 2: a little bit on Hawk. Me personally, I think Hawk
Speaker 2: can hold them off for one or two years at least.
Speaker 2: And that's why I got him here, man, because not
Speaker 2: many guys have that kind of opportunity with the volume
Speaker 2: that you're going to get with Kevin O'Connell and Kirk Cousins, right, Like,
Speaker 2: that's hockey. Chuck it football over there.
Speaker 1: Right, It's funny. I just did a player debate over
Speaker 1: on ITL between Debro and I where I had to
Speaker 1: take the Jordan Addison side. He took Drake London. And
Speaker 1: my main point was that the Vikings passed ball two
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty seven more times than the Falcons did.
Speaker 1: That's fifteen more passes per game. And they just got
Speaker 1: rid of the best part of the running game in
Speaker 1: Dalvin Cook to pass more because they had it Jordan Addison.
Speaker 1: So all three of these guys can work. It's just
Speaker 1: one of those guys is going to have a higher pace.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of more of an Addison guy. I do
Speaker 1: really like TJ. Hawkinson, though both these guys are tough. Fitz,
Speaker 1: what is it about him and for you? Is he
Speaker 1: closer to that top tier or is he closer to
Speaker 1: that secondary tier?
Speaker 4: Secondary tier?
Speaker 3: Like I didn't even really consider him, you know, on
Speaker 3: the same the same.
Speaker 4: Plateau as those other dudes. But yeah, there is a
Speaker 4: lot to like.
Speaker 3: You know, there are gonna be a lot of targets.
Speaker 3: We talked about the aggressive throwing of the Vikings and
Speaker 3: I don't think that's going to change because probably not
Speaker 3: significant enough improvements on defense to keep them out of shootouts.
Speaker 3: I do think, you know, we're going to see a
Speaker 3: lot of high point totals every week with the Vikings
Speaker 3: for the most part, it just seems like they're built
Speaker 3: to be a shootout team this year.
Speaker 1: We I gotta ask you Coop our fits and I
Speaker 1: we both are high on Kinkaid and Michael Mayer who
Speaker 1: come in here. As you know, tight end ones ECR.
Speaker 1: You are at consensus with Kincaid at eight. You are
Speaker 1: significantly below consensus on mayor is this more of a
Speaker 1: rookie tight end rule? I know, tight end is the
Speaker 1: hardest position to translate from college to the NFL because
Speaker 1: you go from blocking guys that might be a used
Speaker 1: car dealerships in a week to blocking t J. Watt
Speaker 1: and Miles Garrett. And now you have to run up
Speaker 1: against Roquan Smith and stuff like that, and you have
Speaker 1: to body up Jalen Ramsey, like you know, you have
Speaker 1: to face all of the hardest defenders in the league.
Speaker 1: As a tight end. You got to block, You've got
Speaker 1: to catch passes, you got to know how to chip,
Speaker 1: You've got to know how to split. There's so much
Speaker 1: to do for a tight end. Is that just a
Speaker 1: general rule that you have for rookies or is it
Speaker 1: look I like Kinkid, he's definitely a tight end one,
Speaker 1: but Mayor is not that level of talent. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I don't like the general rules, right, So I
Speaker 2: don't like the idea that the people say, oh, third
Speaker 2: year breakout, right, I think that that's a fool like
Speaker 2: that's you're trying to simplify a very complicated situation. I'm
Speaker 2: usually the one that has to pour cold, cold water
Speaker 2: all over the rookie tight end. So I'm glad this
Speaker 2: year we have guys that actually get over a lot
Speaker 2: of those hurdles. The problem for rookie tight ends is that,
Speaker 2: especially for fantasy, so you take the blocking part out
Speaker 2: of it. Let's just say that part's completely out of
Speaker 2: the equation. Or they are either good at blocking or
Speaker 2: they're just a strictly pass catching guy. First, you need
Speaker 2: to be the best pass catching tight end in that room.
Speaker 2: If you're Dallas Goddard joining a room with Zach Ertz,
Speaker 2: you're not going to get the slot job. You're gonna
Speaker 2: be the inline guy. Same with Cole Comett next to
Speaker 2: Jimmy Graham. There's so many situations, hayten Hers. So it's
Speaker 2: like you run into that problem first then to actually
Speaker 2: have upside for fantasy. We talked about how you got
Speaker 2: to be a top two target on the team. So
Speaker 2: now if there's if there's two or three wide receivers
Speaker 2: that are better at catching passes in you, you're already
Speaker 2: drawn dead. So for a rookie to walk onto an
Speaker 2: NFL team and be a top two target, you better
Speaker 2: be Kyle Pitts, right. That's why we like Kyle pits
Speaker 2: Evan Ingram, he finished top five as a rookie, but
Speaker 2: Odell Beckham Junior had to tear his knee up in
Speaker 2: week four for that to happen. The other guys that
Speaker 2: have done it, we have to go back to Jeremy
Speaker 2: Shockey and like Mike Dicka. So it just doesn't happen often.
Speaker 2: But this year we get we get a golden opportunity
Speaker 2: with Dolden kin Kay, where I can say to myself, Okay,
Speaker 2: Stevon Diggs, he's one. We're all nodding our heads because
Speaker 2: you know, I would love for somebody to walk up
Speaker 2: in here and tell me somebody else's one. Right, But
Speaker 2: at two the.
Speaker 1: Argument Davis, they would have would love anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we won that one. But with so it's like
Speaker 2: now with Gabe Davis that there's a debate to be
Speaker 2: had whether Dalton Kinkaid operating out of the slot with
Speaker 2: Dawson Knox as the inline tight end, can he be
Speaker 2: a top two target on the team right away or
Speaker 2: can he be next year? Right, and a guy with Kinkaid.
Speaker 2: Of course, over the long term you also have to
Speaker 2: factor in the fact that Digs is thirty, right, and
Speaker 2: he's also complaining and jet setting off to Paris for
Speaker 2: fashion Week, So you know, there's a lot that goes
Speaker 2: into it long term for Kinkaid, but for short term.
Speaker 2: That's why I have him up here at eight and
Speaker 2: you guys are willing to go six and seven, is
Speaker 2: because over the short term he could actually be relevant
Speaker 2: this year.
Speaker 1: So I'm very.
Speaker 2: Much in on Dalton Kinkaid.
Speaker 1: What about Michael Mayer? What makes him low on that list?
Speaker 2: Well, let's take the things that I just talked about there.
Speaker 2: I mean, first and foremost, he is a two way
Speaker 2: tight end. He could end up on the blocking side
Speaker 2: of the tree, which is brutal. Delaney Walker, Dallas Goddard
Speaker 2: two guys ended up on the blocking side hadn't even
Speaker 2: way David Joku exactly. Austin Hooper is the exact guy
Speaker 2: that put him on that side. And now Austin Hooper
Speaker 2: is going to be there with Michael Maher. But it's
Speaker 2: not even Austin Hooper we're worried about. Like Davante Adam's
Speaker 2: got one hundred and eighty targets. He's there. They already
Speaker 2: had Hunter Renfro, and they said, hey, we have Hunter Renfro,
Speaker 2: how about second Hunter Renfro and brought into Kobe Myers.
Speaker 2: Like for me to like Michael Mayer over the short term,
Speaker 2: I've got to create some sort of narrative that he
Speaker 2: can be get more targets than both Kobe Myers and
Speaker 2: Hunter Renfro, And I just I can't do it right now.
Speaker 2: Not to mention, we thought he was going to be
Speaker 2: the slam dunk number one tight end, the two way
Speaker 2: tight end. Well they didn't go first and he didn't
Speaker 2: go second either. So for me, I'm just saying, hey,
Speaker 2: I would rather throw him on the back burner, let
Speaker 2: somebody else take him, and then wait for that window
Speaker 2: to start opening, and then you go and sneak in
Speaker 2: there and say, hey, let me trade for this guy.
Speaker 2: He's not doing a thing, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he feels way better than Austin Hooper because Austin
Speaker 1: Hooper has kind of been in the background and banged
Speaker 1: up recently. But Austin Hooper is a very experienced sight
Speaker 1: end and a very good pass catching tight end, so
Speaker 1: just suck in some bad offenses recently. So let's go
Speaker 1: to the guys that we are all below consensus. And
Speaker 1: it's not by a wide margin here on either one
Speaker 1: of these guys. Pat Fairmouth, we're all below he's ECR seven,
Speaker 1: Coop's got him at ten, FITS and I have him
Speaker 1: at eight. David and Joku is ECR nine. Coop and
Speaker 1: I have him at twelve. Fits has him at eleven.
Speaker 1: So we're all below consensed. So we're not killing either
Speaker 1: one of these guys. It's just there are shots that
Speaker 1: we would rather take earlier. Do you have any worry
Speaker 1: about these guys or is it just that, like, look,
Speaker 1: these are both talented guys, but I'd rather have some
Speaker 1: players above them. That's all.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean for me, is this is the problem.
Speaker 2: If you could sit here and tell me that the
Speaker 2: if it was like Pat Fryermuth and the wide receivers
Speaker 2: on the team were like, you know, Tyler Lockett or
Speaker 2: Keenan Allen, and they were thirty or thirty one years old,
Speaker 2: and I could I could predict some sort of decline
Speaker 2: at some point. Then yeah, but right now, I look
Speaker 2: at it. We got Kenny Pickett who last year only
Speaker 2: through seven touchdowns. Even juicing that number up, it's gonna
Speaker 2: be hard for him to support three assets, right, So
Speaker 2: Deontay Johnson gets one hundred and forty targets no matter what.
Speaker 2: And then now it's George Pickens versus Pat friarm Youth.
Speaker 2: Now there are some good stats in Frohmy's favor red
Speaker 2: zone targets huge. I also sat down and uh took
Speaker 2: every took every team, and I set the parameters to
Speaker 2: three minutes left in the second quarter, fourth quarter, or
Speaker 2: overtime to simulate to two minute drill. They call it
Speaker 2: the two minute drill, but the minute before the two
Speaker 2: minute warning is part of it, right, Like it should
Speaker 2: really be like the round, Yeah, round, that's exactly like
Speaker 2: you're you're using that as a time out. So I
Speaker 2: look that up. Pat frii Youth not only had the
Speaker 2: most targets in those situations of any player, not tight
Speaker 2: end any player, but the highest percentage of his team's targets,
Speaker 2: like seventy percent. So they leaned on him there. But
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, I sit here and
Speaker 2: say to myself, I think George Pickens is the guy
Speaker 2: ahead of him. If you think that friar Myth is
Speaker 2: ahead of George Pickens, move him up. That's the beauty
Speaker 2: of this is that, like right now, in June or July,
Speaker 2: nobody can be completely wrong, right you just lean into
Speaker 2: your own opinions. I think you guys agree with me
Speaker 2: with where you have him ranked. Probably you have pickets
Speaker 2: ahead in terms of targets fits. How do you feel
Speaker 2: about it? It does not.
Speaker 1: Not like Pickens.
Speaker 2: I can tell you move fits. Let's go.
Speaker 3: I like crazy, I'm barely below consensus on Friarmuth. I
Speaker 3: do like him all the bit, and I like the
Speaker 3: fact that you know he is. Average depth of targets
Speaker 3: got a little deeper, like it. I think it's spiked
Speaker 3: by three yards last year. Is is yards per target
Speaker 3: went up. So even though we saw the drop in
Speaker 3: touchdowns from seven to two from his rookie year to
Speaker 3: his second year, like I think all the other indicators
Speaker 3: were sort of positive for him, and yeah, like I
Speaker 3: don't love that Picket is this guy, and you know,
Speaker 3: there is some competition for targets with the White House
Speaker 3: and Nausey, But like, I do think he's a pretty
Speaker 3: good player. And you know, I don't feel too bad
Speaker 3: if he's my starting tight end on a dynasty team.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't. I Frommouth is still a good player.
Speaker 1: It's just black. You know, Nasee didn't get all those
Speaker 1: targets either last year because he played half the season hurt.
Speaker 1: They added Darnell Washington as well. So as much as
Speaker 1: I love Pat, you know, I feel like there's a
Speaker 1: little steam taken out of his sales or win taken
Speaker 1: out of his sales.
Speaker 2: He that's the hardest part about this position though, Right
Speaker 2: we have to sit here and say we think these
Speaker 2: are good players. Like I sit here and say I
Speaker 2: think George Kittle is a good player. But the opportunity
Speaker 2: with a weird quarterback situation and Deebo and Ayuk and CMC,
Speaker 2: that's why I get murdered on Twitter all the time.
Speaker 2: Fits I should probably just get off there because it's
Speaker 2: so hard, like to the average to the average person,
Speaker 2: it's in two hundred eighty characters. It's very difficult for
Speaker 2: me to say, I think this guy is a tremendous
Speaker 2: football player, and I and I don't think he has
Speaker 2: the opportunity to be a good fantasy football player. It
Speaker 2: doesn't make sense to the to the casuals. That's why
Speaker 2: we have this show, right, and you guys have the
Speaker 2: show so you can explain what the hell is going
Speaker 2: on here? Right when I put on Twitter, it's just,
Speaker 2: you know, San Francisco, Fortia nine ers pants and their
Speaker 2: their gene shorts are coming at me from every direction.
Speaker 1: Dude. Look, I'm not gonna knock jean shorts, all right.
Speaker 1: I'm a Texas I'm a Southern boy, all right.
Speaker 2: This isn't every time.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't hate the George, but I'm also
Speaker 1: not from Florida. I'm not gonna wear him with socks
Speaker 1: and sandals.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's fair. That's a fair place to draw the line.
Speaker 1: We're gonna move on down to the the tight ends
Speaker 1: that are in uh tight end two according to ECR.
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Speaker 1: So we dive into the tight end twos thirteen through
Speaker 1: twenty four. At thirteen is Evan Ingram fourteen is Sam Laporta,
Speaker 1: the rookie from Detroit, fifteen chig Zimaconkwo from Tennessee sixteen,
Speaker 1: Cole Comet seventeen Dalton Schultz eighteen Trey McBride nineteen is
Speaker 1: Luke Musgrave, the rookie from Green Bay, twenty Juwan Johnson,
Speaker 1: twenty one from Noah Fant, twenty two is Jalannie Woods,
Speaker 1: twenty three is Mikeasicki, and twenty four is Gerald Everett.
Speaker 1: We have a lot of similarities. Let's start with some
Speaker 1: love here. We went hate early. I feel like in
Speaker 1: the last bunch of tight ends. Let's go love. We're
Speaker 1: all higher than consensus on Laporta and McBride, all three
Speaker 1: of us. So Coop, tell me what it is. Why
Speaker 1: are we higher? Why should we be higher than consensus
Speaker 1: on Laporta and McBride.
Speaker 2: And the more I think about some of these guys
Speaker 2: I have ahead, I might I might need to move
Speaker 2: Laporta up to where you guys have them, because I
Speaker 2: love this guy Laportera, man just from a If we talk, like,
Speaker 2: forget the landing spot. This guy his tape is electric.
Speaker 2: He broke twenty tackles as a Senior wrote in the
Speaker 2: bowl game he brote six on like one play. This
Speaker 2: He's magic, right. I don't call him Sam Teleporta because
Speaker 2: he can make guys miss like crazy, right, So he's
Speaker 2: super exciting. Then he goes to a team where they
Speaker 2: didn't go out and get a big split end, right,
Speaker 2: because that's that's a huge thing for tight end success
Speaker 2: is getting the snaps at wide receiver. And our immediate
Speaker 2: thought is what we want the slot snaps. But Travis Kelce,
Speaker 2: Darren Waller, Hunter Henry at times, these guys aligning all
Speaker 2: the way up wide and just being the split end
Speaker 2: and just wide receiver comes out of the game completely.
Speaker 2: Why can't Sam Laporta do that? With Amline Rossaint Brown
Speaker 2: the slot and Jamiork Gabs doing whatever they're gonna have
Speaker 2: him doing, and Marvin Jones just being a wily veteran
Speaker 2: but not really a target hog at this point. Right,
Speaker 2: So yeah, Sam Laporta could could jump right away, man,
Speaker 2: especially with that situation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love Laporta, and I mean fits, you know,
Speaker 1: you're a big ten guy. He did all of his action.
Speaker 1: I mean, top ten in steven grade, top ten in
Speaker 1: yards per route run among tight ends. And college football
Speaker 1: last year for the one hundred and twenty third ranked
Speaker 1: pass offense in Iowa who couldn't do anything Like five
Speaker 1: of the eight teams below them were triple option teams.
Speaker 1: They were. They had some disgusting QB play last year,
Speaker 1: and Jared Goff might be a middle of the pack
Speaker 1: QB in the NFL fits. But for Sam Laporta, he
Speaker 1: represents a tremendous upgrade from what he had at Iowa.
Speaker 1: So just get open for that guy, and Laporta is
Speaker 1: going to be able to do some big damage quickly, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3: So that Iowa offense was just like you had to
Speaker 3: see it to realize just how bad it was. And
Speaker 3: for Laporta to be just, you know, far and away
Speaker 3: the best guy in that offense and the one thing
Speaker 3: that worked in the Hawkeyes offense. So yes, like I
Speaker 3: think he'll enjoy getting, you know, being in a functional
Speaker 3: offense and getting targets from Jared Goff. For all the
Speaker 3: grief Golf gets, he's a lot better than what Laporta
Speaker 3: was dealing with in Iowa.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I'll say one thing on that. It's some
Speaker 2: there's something to be said about being the focal point
Speaker 2: of the offense and everyone knows it and still getting
Speaker 2: it done and versus getting it done. Yeah, Alabama Cameron
Speaker 2: Cameron Lattu is like the eighth option. That's why when
Speaker 2: you look at his tape there's not really a lot
Speaker 2: of contested catches or man to man because nobody's watching
Speaker 2: him for the order was doing it as the dude
Speaker 2: and what well what.
Speaker 3: Coop was saying by the way, about like how tough
Speaker 3: he is and how many tackles he breaks, Like there
Speaker 3: is some George Kittle to Sam Laporte's game, like he
Speaker 3: is really fun to watch and he go down easily
Speaker 3: exactly exactly. I think Kittle's kind of a mentor to
Speaker 3: him too. I think, so, you know, we would like
Speaker 3: to know.
Speaker 1: Fans a letdown. I was so excited for Noah fan.
Speaker 1: I thought he was better than than Hawkinson even and
Speaker 1: he has been an absolute letdown. Maybe maybe this is
Speaker 1: the year, but uh, you know, I don't think.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 1: What about speaking of guys where we know the ball
Speaker 1: is going to this guy and he still is great.
Speaker 1: In college Colorado States, Trey McBride was absolutely that guy.
Speaker 1: We're all higher on him because I think, you know,
Speaker 1: he got stuck behind zach Ertz. It's what Coop was
Speaker 1: talking about in the first part of it. You're not
Speaker 1: getting targets. I mean Dallas Goddard, the same thing happened
Speaker 1: to him to start because he was behind zach Ertz
Speaker 1: and Trey McBride. While he I think he's a stud.
Speaker 1: We all have him above ECR. He's just been behind Ertz.
Speaker 1: But now he has an opportunity to cement himself in
Speaker 1: this offense. With ERT's missing we assume at least a
Speaker 1: little bit to start the season after tearing his knee
Speaker 1: in January exactly.
Speaker 2: And it was just like with Dallas Goddar and zach
Speaker 2: Ertz with the Eagles, where the game is that Ertz
Speaker 2: would miss. And this is why I actually moved Goddard
Speaker 2: up back in those days when Earth finally did miss time,
Speaker 2: because I thought, I was like, if God gets stuck
Speaker 2: playing inline even with Earth's out, then we we're gonna
Speaker 2: be scared. But when they when Earth's got hurt, they
Speaker 2: moved god Or into the slot and he was playing
Speaker 2: in that Earth's role, running more routes, getting more targets,
Speaker 2: blocking on fewer pass plays. Trey McBride when Earth went down.
Speaker 2: Credit to him. He went out there and he played
Speaker 2: wide receiver for a ton of snaps. He had a
Speaker 2: game with ten targets. I mean, how many times the
Speaker 2: rookie tennan't ever get ten targets, right? I mean, he
Speaker 2: did get popped pretty bad by Marcus Jones in that
Speaker 2: Patriots game, But hey, you know it's everyone's got there,
Speaker 2: welcome to the league. Moment, I'd say, Trey McBride, you know,
Speaker 2: he could have a chance to start right away, and
Speaker 2: he was getting those targets from the backup from Colt McCoy,
Speaker 2: Colt McCoy, Clayton Tune, one of those guys gonna start
Speaker 2: this year, and maybe they decided to dump it down
Speaker 2: to McBride. So yeah, I had to move him up
Speaker 2: a bit, and we liked the profile. And that's why
Speaker 2: for me, I look at where he's at McBride in
Speaker 2: the process and the window actually potentially being open now
Speaker 2: versus Michael. I just can't have the rookie ahead just
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, especially when you're looking at a shorter window.
Speaker 1: You know, I understand that for sure. Now let's talk
Speaker 1: about a little bit of hate here. We're all below
Speaker 1: ECR on Ingram and Everett fits when we get into this,
Speaker 1: you know, it's fourteen, fifteen and sixteen. We're not crazy
Speaker 1: low on Ingram, any of us. Even I'm three spots off.
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm insane and we're all we just
Speaker 1: all have Gerald Everett as a tight end three. I
Speaker 1: think a lot of that has to do with age.
Speaker 1: You know, he's twenty nine. He's got a lot of
Speaker 1: miles on him too for a twenty nine year old
Speaker 1: Jerald Everett does. So what is it about these guys
Speaker 1: that just put them a little bit below ECR For you, FITZI.
Speaker 3: There's no knocking what Ingram did last year, terrific year,
Speaker 3: but additional target competition with the arrival of Calvin Ridley,
Speaker 3: that's a big thing.
Speaker 4: The fact that I don't know, he's let us down before.
Speaker 3: He's had issues with drops, he's had issues with injuries.
Speaker 3: You know, there have been more disappointing than fulfilling seasons
Speaker 3: with Evan Ingram historically.
Speaker 4: So like, I'm not.
Speaker 3: That far below consensus on him, and neither of you
Speaker 3: guys really. So it's just that, you know, it's hard
Speaker 3: to be really bullish on a guy who now probably
Speaker 3: is the third option at best in that offense, even
Speaker 3: though it's an ascending offense, and even though he had
Speaker 3: pretty good chemistry with Trevor Lawrence last year.
Speaker 4: And then Evercoop, Oh sorry, yeah.
Speaker 1: Well go ahead, go ahead with every too. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, like I've seen some enthusiasm from him for
Speaker 3: him in redraft, Like I just can't buy it.
Speaker 4: I really think Everett's just a guy. And you know,
Speaker 4: I know he's playing.
Speaker 3: In a good offense, but like, now that's a team
Speaker 3: that's got three pretty good wide receivers, so like it's
Speaker 3: hard to see him staking out a significant target share
Speaker 3: and it's hard to see him popping when he hasn't
Speaker 3: really popped in situations that were even more favorable for
Speaker 3: him as far as targets.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny with evert It's like, you know, you're
Speaker 1: in LA. You're stuck behind you know, some big dogs
Speaker 1: in LA when that offense is really humming, obviously, and
Speaker 1: even when you weren't stuck behind the receivers, you're stuck
Speaker 1: behind Girly getting eight hundred touches a year. Right, And
Speaker 1: then he goes to Seattle, they call him a fancy
Speaker 1: tight end. And then they trade for Noah Fan. I
Speaker 1: just you know, his career has been a little bumpy
Speaker 1: as well. But you know, in terms of Evan Ingram coop,
Speaker 1: they also drafted Brenton Strange in the second round, so
Speaker 1: you know, his long term future in Jacksonville doesn't seem
Speaker 1: to be there either. I believe he was signed by
Speaker 1: that Urban Meyer group as well, So you know, yes,
Speaker 1: he was great last year. He was There's there's no
Speaker 1: doubt about that. But like Fitz said, Calvin coming in
Speaker 1: and every I don't know. I think I'm just done
Speaker 1: with Everett Hype.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think Ingram made a bit of a mistake his
Speaker 2: his agent did. Where a lot of guys are are
Speaker 2: going with devoid years and stuff to protect them from
Speaker 2: the franchise tag and Ingram got tagged and he's not
Speaker 2: happy about it. How do I know that because I
Speaker 2: actually tweeted that Ingram. I'm like, this guy plays slot.
Speaker 2: He's a big slot player, and he's a better blocker
Speaker 2: than a lot of slot guys and he's gonna get
Speaker 2: paid less than a lot of these slot guys are.
Speaker 2: And Evan Ingram actually retweeted that. So he's out there
Speaker 2: searching his own name on there and and again he's yeah.
Speaker 2: So you know, so that's that explains the Brenton Strange
Speaker 2: pick because basically he's saying, well, I'm not gonna be
Speaker 2: back next year, like now, you've got to pay me
Speaker 2: next year. So I think that's the plan is they're
Speaker 2: gonna let him walk in for Dynasty. And this is
Speaker 2: what's so crazy about what we do is that I've
Speaker 2: been a Evan Ingram guy. Fits we talked about ever
Speaker 2: Ingram last year on this show and we were in
Speaker 2: in redraft picked twenty he finished five. But now I
Speaker 2: got to explain to my file why you know, all
Speaker 2: last year we were doing victory laps and cartwheels, but
Speaker 2: this year, with the addition to Calvin Ridley, now you
Speaker 2: got to do that target total poll over again and
Speaker 2: where do you put Calvin Ridley? Is Calvin Ridley or
Speaker 2: Evan Ingram Because Christian Kirk is going to get his
Speaker 2: He's just he was so rock solid. You know, he's
Speaker 2: going to get one hundred plus targets, right, So is
Speaker 2: Evan Ingram or Calvin really going to get more targets?
Speaker 2: And for me, I have to put Ridley ahead. I
Speaker 2: just think he's a better pass catcher, So it's a
Speaker 2: tough gig right and Gerald Everett that one makes no
Speaker 2: sense to me. We're talking about a guy that only
Speaker 2: played more than seventy percent of the snaps twice. I
Speaker 2: don't know if it was conditioning or scheme or what,
Speaker 2: but he was a part time player at times, even
Speaker 2: with Keenan Allen and Mike Williams missing games at different times.
Speaker 2: And now when I sit down and I say target
Speaker 2: pecking order, right, you have Keenan Allen, you have Mike Williams.
Speaker 2: You have the rookie Quintin Johnston, which, even if you're
Speaker 2: not going to say Quentin Johnson gets a bunch of targets.
Speaker 2: If one of those wide receives it gets hurt. Now
Speaker 2: he sides right in there.
Speaker 1: If what do you mean if those wide receivers gets hurt.
Speaker 2: So now they have a guy a little better than
Speaker 2: Josh Palmer. And here's the real rub. Austin Eckler is
Speaker 2: the guy that routinely gets one hundred targets. He's gotten
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty. So Austin Eckler might be ahead
Speaker 2: of Mike Williams like everybody, right, So it's like, where
Speaker 2: does he fall in four at best nightmare, dude, Like,
Speaker 2: if put it this way, it's a guy that drafts
Speaker 2: Gerald Everett is in Gerald Everitt's fantasy relevant. It doesn't
Speaker 2: matter who gets Gerald Everett because the guy that got
Speaker 2: Justin Herbert is gonna win the league by a million, right, Like,
Speaker 2: all those guys are relevant. Whoever gets Herbert won. You're
Speaker 2: drafting like a handcuff. So Gerald Effett missed me with
Speaker 2: that for sure.
Speaker 1: All right, So let's go to some individual love and
Speaker 1: hate here, Coop, you love Juwan Johnson, you hate Cole Komett.
Speaker 1: Obviously I'm using iperbole here. You're just low on Comet
Speaker 1: at twenty one, and then you have Juwan Johnson at
Speaker 1: where's j One Johnson go? You have him at sixteen
Speaker 1: where his consensus is twenty and fits and I both
Speaker 1: have him at ECR. We're both higher on Comet. What
Speaker 1: is it that you like about Juwan? What is it
Speaker 1: that you dis like about Comet?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll start with the negative first, just because we
Speaker 2: want to end it on a positive note. Sure, So,
Speaker 2: Cole Comet I liked him last year. I was in
Speaker 2: pretty devastated. We started this season with back to back
Speaker 2: zeros right, but he kind of bounced back with touchdowns
Speaker 2: and finished like tight end eight. But the problem you
Speaker 2: run into with comet is that not only is it
Speaker 2: a low volume offense, but you have a quarterback who's
Speaker 2: prone to run and not throw as much to his
Speaker 2: low A dot targets. We've seen that mathematically. I believe
Speaker 2: your own or Andrew Erickson, who who you know is
Speaker 2: you know he's a friend of the program. He he
Speaker 2: did a study on mobile quarterbacks dumping the ball down.
Speaker 2: They don't do it as much, not nearly as much
Speaker 2: the bottom three quarterbacks in targeting the running back. Last
Speaker 2: year the teams were the Eagles, the Bears, and the Ravens,
Speaker 2: So it is scared from that standpoint. The other is
Speaker 2: they added DJ Moore, and I kind of like Mooney.
Speaker 2: I even kind of like Chase claypol So last year
Speaker 2: was his opportunity to be a top two targeted on
Speaker 2: the team, will actually lead the team in targets, which
Speaker 2: he technically did with Darnold Mooney going down, and he
Speaker 2: didn't really flash much. That's why now I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 2: things got worse for him, but we still like him.
Speaker 2: I'm a little scared there on the flip side, which
Speaker 2: you want Johnson, this is a converted wide receiver that's
Speaker 2: playing tight end. It's everything we asked for, right, Like
Speaker 2: I was, I was you check my post history. I
Speaker 2: was me and my followers were sending messages to Yahoo saying,
Speaker 2: this guy's a tight end add tight end eligibility. I
Speaker 2: was that annoying dude like hitting up like fantasy cares
Speaker 2: and they really are not Fantasy cares, Fantasy caarrees of
Speaker 2: Scott Fishball. You should hit them up and give them
Speaker 2: a bunch of money. But Yahoo Fantasy Cares is there
Speaker 2: like thing, and they're very good, they're very nice, and
Speaker 2: they did change it. But I was that annoying guy.
Speaker 2: But we got what we wanted. And uh my call
Speaker 2: to everybody out there, I actually like Michael Thomas real quick.
Speaker 2: Yes or no, you guys, yes in or no? Out
Speaker 2: on Michael. I'm out. I just can't do it.
Speaker 1: I drafted him too many times to be high on him.
Speaker 2: Well, then here's the here's the rob there, right, we
Speaker 2: like Chris Olave. If you're out on Michael Thomas and
Speaker 2: so many people as a guy who's in, so many
Speaker 2: people come to me and they say, oh, he's he's
Speaker 2: a bomb, he's dust, He's gonna get hurt. Okay, what
Speaker 2: are you doing about it? But how you how you
Speaker 2: arbitrating that situation? Do you like Rashid Jaheed or maybe
Speaker 2: you like Juwan Johnson? You do like him?
Speaker 1: I like him? Actually I like Johnson. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right, So it's like the people out there take your
Speaker 2: anger towards Michael Thomas and channel it into some trade
Speaker 2: offers for Juwan Johnson.
Speaker 1: My anger is Adam Trupman. I thought that guy was
Speaker 1: gonna me too long, and that's why I did. I
Speaker 1: wasn't in on Juwan Johnson, but yeah, I mean he
Speaker 1: was so good.
Speaker 3: At at Dayton, right, I mean is the arrival of
Speaker 3: Foster Moreau and I'll concern you.
Speaker 4: I mean like he did work with Carr before. Like
Speaker 4: you can have all narrative.
Speaker 2: The Foster row. You're right, and it's Foster or See,
Speaker 2: he's got that, He's got that narrative, he's got the
Speaker 2: hard knocks, like that's what originally put him on the scene.
Speaker 2: And also we're all rooting for him, like him, John Metchi,
Speaker 2: James Connor. These guys are doing something amazing, getting beyond cancer,
Speaker 2: playing in the NFL, so we're all rooting for him.
Speaker 2: The problem is, I've seen Darren Waller get hurt a
Speaker 2: bunch of times, and I've seen wide receivers get hurt
Speaker 2: on the on the on the Raiders. I've seen wide
Speaker 2: receivers get get kicked off the team. I've seen him
Speaker 2: go to jail. And Foster Moreau still has never had
Speaker 2: a seventy yard game, not one like I've seen this
Speaker 2: guy start a lot of games. And I tell people,
Speaker 2: I say, point me at the Foster Moreau good game,
Speaker 2: show me a Foster Moreau highlight. That's that's where everyone says, well,
Speaker 2: there's got to be something. And then if they come
Speaker 2: back and now send me a clip right, send me
Speaker 2: the clips right. That's where I get them. But so
Speaker 2: for me, I just give you the guy who's a
Speaker 2: wide receiver. I think I think Boston Rode should have
Speaker 2: a solid inline rule play a bit, but I just
Speaker 2: I can't see. I'm going for upside. I want upside.
Speaker 2: That's what I want.
Speaker 1: If you're looking for all of the angles. Let me
Speaker 1: remind you, guys to explore your team's potential with my playbooks.
Speaker 1: Dynasty Trade Analyzer at fantasypros dot com Slash NFL Slash
Speaker 1: my Playbook.
Speaker 4: You can trust.
Speaker 1: The rankings are tools factor in the ECR. For every
Speaker 1: single trade that you would do. You can include rookie
Speaker 1: draft picks to get a comprehensive trade over you to
Speaker 1: see where they're ranked and rated against the players. You
Speaker 1: can get clear visual feedback, feedback on how trades can
Speaker 1: improve your team, level up your dynasty league and game
Speaker 1: today at fantasypros dot com Slash NFL, Slash my Playbook. FITZI,
Speaker 1: I got one for you. You are high man on
Speaker 1: Jelannie Woods for all three of us, not a bad
Speaker 1: guy to behind man on, especially when Saints Shaneziken comes
Speaker 1: out and says, this is the Dallas daughter of the
Speaker 1: new look Colts offense. It's a good spot to be in.
Speaker 1: Guy is huge, very physically talented. What is it you
Speaker 1: love about Johnny Wood?
Speaker 3: That's it The trades bogs big and fast, and it's
Speaker 3: great to hear stike and give him that sort of endorsement,
Speaker 3: and so you know, hopefully he can grow with Anthony
Speaker 3: Richardson and that becomes a quality pitch and catch como
Speaker 3: because you know, I'm kind of getting sick of the
Speaker 3: revolving door. The Colts have been having a tight end
Speaker 3: for the last few years, like Moli Cox and Colin Grants, like,
Speaker 3: let's just get one guy.
Speaker 4: Let's let's run it back to the Dallas.
Speaker 3: Clark era right here with the Colts and have like
Speaker 3: one guy we can count on. But bugs, we gotta
Speaker 3: ask Coop about Chicko Konkwa because he's like, he's got
Speaker 3: him at nine tight end nine, and I've got him
Speaker 3: at thirteen, and you've got him at tight end nineteen.
Speaker 3: So obviously, like there is a level of enthusiasm for
Speaker 3: Coop here with Chig that you know, like I'm you're
Speaker 3: clearly not their bogs, but yeah.
Speaker 1: Look for me. I'll just tell you guys, if I
Speaker 1: have size and longevity concerns for for a con Quo,
Speaker 1: because he has slighter a frame, he's gonna be taking
Speaker 1: some big hits and he's gonna have some big usage
Speaker 1: over the next two years. It's funny because I have
Speaker 1: in my Redraft rankings, I have a con Quo high
Speaker 1: because I you know, this year it's Treylon Burks and
Speaker 1: nobody are your options among wide receivers for Tennessee. So
Speaker 1: Chig could be he could be the leading target ketter
Speaker 1: for this team, but long term, I do have a
Speaker 1: little concerns about his size, and you know, just Tennessee
Speaker 1: potentially drafting someone else that that can is more of
Speaker 1: an all around tight end that they would want to
Speaker 1: use more if Ocnquo doesn't hit this year. So I
Speaker 1: do think he has a pretty good ceiling, but I
Speaker 1: think the floor risk hurts me on a Conquo a
Speaker 1: little bit. What is it about Chig that puts him
Speaker 1: into the as a tight end one for you, Coop?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So for me, I in redraft, I think I
Speaker 2: have him at at eight or seven or eight, Like,
Speaker 2: I can't put him ahead of Waller and Kittle, but
Speaker 2: I got him right there and this I haven't been nine,
Speaker 2: and I've never been afraid to get aggressive with this position,
Speaker 2: especially if I believe in the research that I've done, uh.
Speaker 1: So that this position is pretty good right now.
Speaker 2: Right So we're just looking for guys that can potentially
Speaker 2: be that high end rip the doors off guy. And
Speaker 2: I understand your concern for him size and weight wise,
Speaker 2: but the beauty is he played a ton of snaps
Speaker 2: at wide receiver, tons of snaps in the slot and
Speaker 2: only blocked on two percent of his pass places. It's
Speaker 2: when you're in the mix too much with your hand
Speaker 2: in the dirt and the jump getting jumbled up, like
Speaker 2: with Jason Garrett making Evan Ingram do that at you know,
Speaker 2: he's like six three two thirty four running at four
Speaker 2: four four to two and he's like, yeah, get get
Speaker 2: in there with the big goal and everyone's like he's
Speaker 2: injury pro and exactly right, Like that's literally what they
Speaker 2: were doing. Like I'm like, Bryce Young, he's rocking Bryce Young,
Speaker 2: Like what is going on? Like so uh like if
Speaker 2: they use him properly. Now, now we have a guy
Speaker 2: that when I look at and I'm gonna use this,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna use some high end examples here. You look
Speaker 2: at Mark Andrews rookie year. He had thirty five percent
Speaker 2: snapshare because they had Nick Boyle and Hiddenhurst. He only
Speaker 2: caught about thirty two targets. But when you look at
Speaker 2: the usage he was playing slot, he was blocking on
Speaker 2: only one point seven percent of the past place. He
Speaker 2: was running decent eight hop routes. His catch rate was good,
Speaker 2: his test catcher was good. Here's the thing with Chig
Speaker 2: thirty five percent of the snaps as a rookie, behind
Speaker 2: Jeff Slam and Austin Hooper, who are both gone.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: He caught thirty something passes. He caught three touchdowns, just
Speaker 2: like Mark Andrews. In every one of those stats except
Speaker 2: for one, he was actually slightly better than Mark Andrews.
Speaker 2: He had you know, he had a better contested catch rate,
Speaker 2: he was better versus man to man. He basically the
Speaker 2: only stat that he wasn't better in was a dot
Speaker 2: Mark Andrews getting a little farther downfield. Right, That's something
Speaker 2: that can change, But that was the one stat, right,
Speaker 2: And then we look over at the profile and we
Speaker 2: look at guys that if you're not going to get
Speaker 2: the targets, we need speed. That's how you get extra
Speaker 2: eight dot. That's how you get extra yak. He ran
Speaker 2: a four to five to two. That's ninety five percent out.
Speaker 2: That's George Kittle. He runs a four to five to two.
Speaker 2: And Kittle is the only player in the league that
Speaker 2: has multiple seventy yard plays as a tight end. In fact,
Speaker 2: only two tight ends in the league currently have three
Speaker 2: plays in the same year of forty plus yards. One
Speaker 2: of them is George Kittle. The other one was last
Speaker 2: year Chickenconguo on thirty five percent of the snaps. You
Speaker 2: take a guy like that with his profile both in
Speaker 2: terms of physicality and his yards per route run, which
Speaker 2: again higher than Mark Andrews is like two point six,
Speaker 2: and you just sprinkle more snaps on there. That's how
Speaker 2: we get production. That's how we got the Mark Andrews breakout,
Speaker 2: and I'm in on the Chick breakout. If it doesn't work,
Speaker 2: it doesn't work. But if it does pan out, it
Speaker 2: hands out in a big way. That's why I'm willing
Speaker 2: to make the best. But I'll give you this on
Speaker 2: that one. By the floor, is what you say is one?
Speaker 2: Is what you say is where they do if they
Speaker 2: bring in other pass catchers. If they signed DeAndre Hopkins tomorrow,
Speaker 2: he's in huge trouble, right. So that's the concern that
Speaker 2: he ends up being like a Cameron Braid or Anthony
Speaker 2: Firkser who is just a smaller, part time tight end.
Speaker 2: But if they decide that this guy is going to
Speaker 2: be the slot wide receiver that we can start a
Speaker 2: tight end in fantasy football, get all fired up. Just
Speaker 2: think about it.
Speaker 1: This could be the worst QB situation in the NFL
Speaker 1: two in Tennessee with Tannehillah and Will Levis. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: Tannehill is still easily the best there. But if he
Speaker 1: starts to slip and I go to Levis or Malik Willis,
Speaker 1: who they seem to have already given up on, it
Speaker 1: might get real ugly. Uh let's let's let's do this
Speaker 1: to wrap it up here, Coop, Are there any other
Speaker 1: tight ends below, you know, the top twenty four that
Speaker 1: you feel passionately about to bring up at the end
Speaker 1: of the show, either positively or negatively. You know, we
Speaker 1: you know, we kind of looked for us before the
Speaker 1: show down to our top forty. Is there anyone from
Speaker 1: that group that you really really like or really really dislike?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll throw the negativity out first, So, like I said,
Speaker 2: and on a positive note, right, Dawson Knox before the show,
Speaker 2: you asked me, You're like, oh, you forgot Dawson Knox,
Speaker 2: And what I say.
Speaker 1: You said, I didn't forget him. I didn't forget him.
Speaker 2: I am. The thing with Dawston Knox is we talk
Speaker 2: about opportunity and how you need to seize that. He's
Speaker 2: been in the league for a while, Jeffon Diggs was
Speaker 2: the guy game. Davis kind of left the door open man, right,
Speaker 2: Like he wasn't the guy we thought he was going
Speaker 2: to be. That was Dawson Knockx opportunity to to swoop
Speaker 2: in and be a top two target on the team
Speaker 2: in a high powered offense and prove that he's that dude,
Speaker 2: and he didn't do it. And instead they went out
Speaker 2: and they drafted the newest version of zach Ertz, which
Speaker 2: pushes him in line. Now he's going to be a
Speaker 2: guy that's just touchdown dependent, and they signed him to
Speaker 2: an extension. So if Dolton Kincaid is anything, now, we're
Speaker 2: basically sitting here waiting for Dawson Knox's contract to run
Speaker 2: out so that he can leave. It's just like he's
Speaker 2: in such dead water that I almost if you can
Speaker 2: trade him, trade him. But I just I don't know
Speaker 2: what we're waiting for. What do we need to happen
Speaker 2: when you do Kid to completely bust and gave Davis
Speaker 2: to just be okay and then Knocks to take us
Speaker 2: a step forward. I mean, it's possible, it's just there's
Speaker 2: too many other options, right, So for did you guys
Speaker 2: want to weigh on a knocks before I give my
Speaker 2: last for Knox.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what one thing is. I know that
Speaker 1: and I forgot about this fits that hand injury from
Speaker 1: Knox last year, right like that wasn't like one hand
Speaker 1: double the size of the other hand because it was
Speaker 1: so swollen or yeah, it was crazy. That was factoring
Speaker 1: into why he didn't pick it up when Davis went down.
Speaker 1: Of course, not even went down. Davis was just bad,
Speaker 1: So I'll give him a little leeway there. Also, looking
Speaker 1: at his contray, he is cuttable after twenty twenty four,
Speaker 1: which is still not great right now, which is why
Speaker 1: I have him as a tight end three at best.
Speaker 1: But you know they're not gonna keep him on for
Speaker 1: I think it's twelve million bucks if he's not doing anything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can save seven point eight and twenty twenty five
Speaker 1: and then twelve the following year by cutting him. So
Speaker 1: he'll be gone and off to a different opportunity I
Speaker 1: believe after the twenty twenty four season anyway, which is
Speaker 1: a little light. But like you said, right now, kin
Speaker 1: Kate is their guy. They spent a first round pick
Speaker 1: on him. The investment is not a one for one.
Speaker 1: I know our buddy Chris Harris would say it's crutch argument.
Speaker 1: I understand it's not a one for one, but sometimes
Speaker 1: you read the tea leaves, so I understand the knock
Speaker 1: on knocks no pun intended there for real fits you
Speaker 1: got anything on Dawson.
Speaker 4: No Coop covered it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Hey the next.
Speaker 1: Time, whould positive on Coop?
Speaker 2: Yeah? And some thing is like you guys, where you
Speaker 2: have him, it's fair. You got him like thirty, so
Speaker 2: it's like you're putting him in that range where it's like,
Speaker 2: you know, it's just like that's where you put the
Speaker 2: guys who you're rooting for to get cut so they
Speaker 2: can get a fresh start, you know, of these later guys.
Speaker 2: One guy that I'm above ecr on and I think
Speaker 2: Patt as well, is Isaiah Likely. And what I loved
Speaker 2: about him is that it's kind of like the Trey
Speaker 2: McBride where we got to see a brief, ever brief
Speaker 2: window with a couple games there where he was the guy.
Speaker 2: And if you take just I know it's such a
Speaker 2: small sample size, but if you take his usage in
Speaker 2: those games, it is exactly what they use Mark Andrews
Speaker 2: to do. In fact, I talk about pass blocking the
Speaker 2: lot because it's only been essentially since I've been doing this.
Speaker 2: Three players that blocked on more than fifteen percent of
Speaker 2: their pass plays and finished top five, and they were
Speaker 2: George Kittle twenty nineteen Unicorn, Rob Gronkowski Super Unicorn, and
Speaker 2: then Julius Thomas in a year that Peyton Manning threw
Speaker 2: fifty five touchdown passes. So it doesn't happen, right, But
Speaker 2: if you sort by that stat, Isaiah likely was number
Speaker 2: one in the entire league. He blocked on like four
Speaker 2: past places. They just put him in the slot. That's
Speaker 2: what he does. Uh, you know, and and if something happens.
Speaker 1: You're trying to put him in wide out by the way.
Speaker 2: No, I don't want that.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. Delete that part, Delete
Speaker 1: that part.
Speaker 2: We don't want We don't want that at all, dude. No,
Speaker 2: if Mike, if Mike Aseki gets franchise tagged as a
Speaker 2: tight end and doesn't fight it, then we're all safe.
Speaker 2: We're all safe. But yes, no, delete that part. Fox.
Speaker 2: I don't want that at all. I don't want that
Speaker 2: at all. We want him to be we want to
Speaker 2: why receivers. We could start at tight end. So that's
Speaker 2: what we want, right And I'll add this part. Uh,
Speaker 2: anyone out there after you finished listening to this pod,
Speaker 2: go look up what Isaiah Likely shut up to camp
Speaker 2: looking like this year. He's got the afro, he's got
Speaker 2: this mustache. If that doesn't get you fired up for
Speaker 2: Isaiah Likely, I don't know what well man you saw
Speaker 2: it fits? Yeah, he looks he's looking ready to rock
Speaker 2: and roll.
Speaker 1: Fits anybody else in this range that you want to be.
Speaker 1: You want to throw some shade on or give some love.
Speaker 4: To here, not really, you know, Coop covered Isaiah Likely.
Speaker 3: You know, I was happy to see that, a little
Speaker 3: more disappointed the Coop didn't have Jake Ferguson in his
Speaker 3: top forty.
Speaker 4: But that's okay. We're not going to throw shade at
Speaker 4: our desk for that.
Speaker 3: I just was like, maybe I want to circle back
Speaker 3: real quick and just mentioned a guy who was in
Speaker 3: our tight end two range, and I was glad to
Speaker 3: see the Coop was also kind of high on Mikeahzicki
Speaker 3: relative to ECR. I just think here's the guy still
Speaker 3: one of the more athletic tight ends in the league.
Speaker 3: And it was really weird that the Dolphins franchised him
Speaker 3: only to basically cut his snaps in half last year.
Speaker 4: That was really strange.
Speaker 3: But now he's reunited with Bill O'Brien as college coach
Speaker 3: at Penn States. And you know, the last time Bill
Speaker 3: O'Brien was calling plays for the Patriots not saying we're
Speaker 3: going to see a repeat of this. But you know,
Speaker 3: I think the tight ends there combined for like twenty
Speaker 3: three hundred receiving yards and twenty four touchdowns.
Speaker 1: Granted, granted, Hunter.
Speaker 3: Hen Hunter Henry and Mikah Sicki are not Rob Gronkowski
Speaker 3: and Aaron Hernandez. But you know, I think it kind
Speaker 3: of showed maybe that uh, tight ends kind of an
Speaker 3: important deal in the Bill O'Brien offense.
Speaker 2: Yes, you pointed out it's kind of interesting with uh,
Speaker 2: with the Dolphins, like there was clearly a disconnect between
Speaker 2: the GM and the coach there because they've franchised Tag Koseki,
Speaker 2: they signed Cedric Wilson, they signed Chase Edmonds, and Mike
Speaker 2: McDaniel was just like, nah, those guys right, Uh, but yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean Koseki like, let's play the game. Early on
Speaker 2: in your rankings and your drafts, you say why Why
Speaker 2: do I love these guys? Why do I love Chig?
Speaker 2: Why do I love Mark Andrews? Later on we start
Speaker 2: saying why not, right, why can't Mike? Is say, like, so,
Speaker 2: after Juju, who's the second target on that team?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: We don't even know if it's going to be Juju,
Speaker 2: But it could.
Speaker 1: Be Mike Zikki banged up. Yeah, it could be Mike Ziki,
Speaker 1: could be born, it could be Parker. But they're also
Speaker 1: they're in the Hopkins sweepstakes as well, so exactly, you know,
Speaker 1: So it makes it tougher to rank him right now.
Speaker 1: But I understand the love and the skill is there.
Speaker 1: It just seems like he always gets under the skin
Speaker 1: of whatever coaching staff he doesn't do something, and then
Speaker 1: Duram smythe ends up leading his team in snaps, you know,
Speaker 1: and like he's talented, but in terms of tight ends
Speaker 1: in the NFL, he's middle of the line. He should
Speaker 1: not be getting snaps over Gasicki, and he does because
Speaker 1: he does the little things, which is why Gasicky annoys
Speaker 1: me with that stuff. You don't know where he stands
Speaker 1: in the coaching staff from week to week. But as
Speaker 1: Fitz pointed out back with Bill O'Brien probably a good
Speaker 1: spot to be for him.
Speaker 2: He needs the right scheme. That's one hundred percent of
Speaker 2: the situation. Like with Adam Gase. Adam Gaz had him
Speaker 2: blocking on seventeen percent of his pass plays like he
Speaker 2: was why he finished tight end fifty something the very
Speaker 2: next year. Yeah, Gags Gaze is like the tight end devil.
Speaker 2: Even Julius Thomas blocked on in that year that he
Speaker 2: Like the Julius Thomas year, he was blocking on like
Speaker 2: twenty percent of his pass plays. Just Peyton Manning Brute
Speaker 2: forced him into tight end five or whatever was right,
Speaker 2: But like so Gays had him block in seventeen percent.
Speaker 2: Next year, Brian Flores and Chang Gaily. Chang Gaily was
Speaker 2: you know, he had Tony Gonzalez running the second most
Speaker 2: slot snaps in the league, behind only Hines Ward. He
Speaker 2: had Eric Decker as the big slot like he basically said,
Speaker 2: you're gonna be Eric Decker and that's how he finished
Speaker 2: at tight end six. And then Mike McDaniel comes in
Speaker 2: and he goes, no, I need a two eight tight end,
Speaker 2: so you're not gonna play. So you got to hope
Speaker 2: that this team they're looking at it and saying, well,
Speaker 2: for they're looking at and saying we're gonna put you
Speaker 2: in the slot. And Mike Eseki, as a free agent,
Speaker 2: could have gone anywhere, and he picked this spot. And
Speaker 2: there's a beat writer named Alex Barth for the Patriots
Speaker 2: that went through all the transcripts and pulled out nine
Speaker 2: different times that a reporter said what do you think
Speaker 2: about the tight end in Miami? And Bill Belichick started
Speaker 2: it by correcting them and saying, well, he's more of
Speaker 2: a big wide receiver. He pulled nine different times. That's
Speaker 2: how it started. Well, we think he's more a big
Speaker 2: wide receiver. Now he's got the big wide receiver. I'm
Speaker 2: with you the fits. I think you might have him
Speaker 2: higher than me, but we both have him higher than
Speaker 2: and consensus I believe, right y.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you're even higher than.
Speaker 2: As you can tell. I've been thinking about it. I've
Speaker 2: been thinking about that one a little bit.
Speaker 1: Well, look, Matt is going to wrap it up for
Speaker 1: tight Ends and Coop, thanks for coming on and please
Speaker 1: plug everything that you're doing. Let everyone know where they
Speaker 1: can find you on what you got coming up here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, So it's easy follow me at Coop A fiasco.
Speaker 2: I tweet everything out that I have. A lot of
Speaker 2: my articles are free, some of them are in the
Speaker 2: Draft guide. If I'm buying two draft guides this year,
Speaker 2: I'm getting Fantasy Alarm, I'm getting Fantasy Pros. I'm winning
Speaker 2: all my leagues. So pretty simple, Rake boys, That's.
Speaker 1: Right, That's right, FITZI at fits Underscore FF, what do
Speaker 1: you got coming up here, FITZI.
Speaker 3: We are rolling out have rolled out our draft kit
Speaker 3: for Redraft, so check that out.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's got everything.
Speaker 3: You want, all the analysts, players to target, players to avoid,
Speaker 3: our draft a cheat sheets, everything you need. And you know,
Speaker 3: of course, you can always find the ECR, the Expert
Speaker 3: Consensus Rankings at Fantasy Pros. That's it. We've got you
Speaker 3: covered on Redraft and Dynasty.
Speaker 1: Of course, follow me here at bogmin Sports. Of course,
Speaker 1: I'm on this show. All my rankings are up for
Speaker 1: Fantasy Pros. And check out in this league where we're
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Speaker 1: And that is it for us, and we will see
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