Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's Bruce and it's such a beautiful day
Speaker 1: here in La and as always, I'm really glad you
Speaker 1: pulled up a share for Table for two. Today we
Speaker 1: went back at the Tower Bar for another great lunch.
Speaker 2: I see the curtain moving, Donadana.
Speaker 1: The seventies were a very specific time for me watching
Speaker 1: television and it really influenced my love for California as
Speaker 1: a kid living in New York. I'm talking about stuff
Speaker 1: like Brady Bunch, Happy Days and Three's Company, And as
Speaker 1: it turns out, our guest, Rita Wilson, was on all
Speaker 1: those shows.
Speaker 3: Hi. Hi.
Speaker 2: She was born and raised in La.
Speaker 1: She's married to one of the biggest movie stores in
Speaker 1: the world, a guy named Tom Hanks. And she's an
Speaker 1: incredible actress, producer, and a singer with a new album
Speaker 1: of duets called Rita Wilson Now and Forever. She also
Speaker 1: has some great story worries about California in the seventies.
Speaker 4: I ordered the loudest sology you could possibly order on
Speaker 4: the menu.
Speaker 1: So grab a rose because today we're having lunch with
Speaker 1: Rita Wilson. I'm Bruce Bosi and this is my podcast
Speaker 1: Table for two.
Speaker 2: Welcome to table for two.
Speaker 4: Hi.
Speaker 3: You his so nice to see.
Speaker 1: This is super exciting because the last time I saw you,
Speaker 1: we were at the Elton John concert.
Speaker 2: In the stadium, Yes, sitting together, rocking out.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was so good. I saw him there. I
Speaker 4: guess it was the seventies. I want to talk to that, Yes,
Speaker 4: so we'll talk all about the seventies. It's so extraordinary.
Speaker 4: I still feel this way that we are living in
Speaker 4: a time where our heroes of our youth are still
Speaker 4: playing and still out there and we can see them
Speaker 4: because so many people aren't doing what they used to do.
Speaker 4: But you have people like Elton, you have Paul McCartney,
Speaker 4: you have Bruce Springsteen, you have even Madonna now has
Speaker 4: been performing for like forty years, you know, but that Chicago,
Speaker 4: the Eagles, those people are still out there performing. G
Speaker 4: Yeah sometimes, and I don't think it ever gets sold
Speaker 4: because you know, I grew up.
Speaker 3: I'm born in Race in Holliday.
Speaker 2: You know. I just what I want you to talk
Speaker 2: to me about right now before we get your album.
Speaker 3: Which fine, we'll do that too.
Speaker 2: So you grew up. I want to know about growing
Speaker 2: up in Hollywood seventies.
Speaker 1: You want some of my favorite shows that got me
Speaker 1: to California. FYI, Happy Days, all of them, happy company.
Speaker 3: This is what I thought I was. I thought I
Speaker 3: was going to You're going to go live that life, go,
Speaker 3: You're going to find some roomings. Well I was.
Speaker 4: I started to say that I'm talking about those people
Speaker 4: in music that are are icons, you know, not just mine,
Speaker 4: but the worlds. Is that I loved music so much
Speaker 4: that I got a job at Universal Studios. Used to
Speaker 4: have a venue called the Universal Amphitheater and it's where
Speaker 4: the Harry Potter right is now, but it used to
Speaker 4: be outdoors and it was just bliss and everybody came
Speaker 4: through there. So Elton came through there, Joni Mitchell, Carol King,
Speaker 4: Linda Ronstad, the Eagles, Steve Martin, would do comedy, you
Speaker 4: name it.
Speaker 3: They were there.
Speaker 4: And so I can't ever quite separate myself from the
Speaker 4: reverence that I have for all of those influences in
Speaker 4: music and what they felt like when I saw them
Speaker 4: the first time. I like, my first concert was led
Speaker 4: Zeppelin at the Forum, right, I just want.
Speaker 3: To give your listeners a little visual of that too.
Speaker 4: So I went with two girlfriends of mine who were twins,
Speaker 4: and Rose and Carol O'Connell, like, if they're out there listening, hi, guys,
Speaker 4: I'd love to see you. And they were identical twins
Speaker 4: that were about five eleven and shocks of red hair
Speaker 4: and freckles and just you know, fantastic physiques and just
Speaker 4: they looked like Gazelle's.
Speaker 3: And my mom used.
Speaker 4: To make my clothes, so she made me an outfit
Speaker 4: that was a Hawaiian print fabric with the turquoise background
Speaker 4: and like canoes and surfboards and palm trees and you
Speaker 4: know those kind of flowers on it, yellows, reds, pinks,
Speaker 4: and the pants were draw string bell bottoms and then
Speaker 4: full midrif exposed, and then the top was like a
Speaker 4: little short sleeved thing, but you would tie the top
Speaker 4: like right under your boobs. So that was my outloik
Speaker 4: okay with these things called wedgies were my sandals, I'm sorry,
Speaker 4: Corky's were my sandals.
Speaker 3: Big platform, right big.
Speaker 4: So we were so excited running to the forum to
Speaker 4: see led Zeppelin that I fell flat on my face
Speaker 4: running with my corkies. And you suffer from beauty, you suffer,
Speaker 4: really got right back up.
Speaker 1: And those are those, don't you think?
Speaker 2: Those days and having those like that's it's the best
Speaker 2: to have.
Speaker 1: And you grew up at a time and like you
Speaker 1: reference that in the seventies because.
Speaker 2: You also grew up in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: To me, the sweet magic spot of Los Angeles was
Speaker 1: the sixties and the seventies. Sure, anyone says, and we
Speaker 1: also know what was happening in music in the seventies. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles with Joni Mitchell, with Mama.
Speaker 3: Cass, Carol King and Stevie Mitt.
Speaker 1: Talk to me about who was like what were you
Speaker 1: running around in like that music scene?
Speaker 4: Like, well, okay, let's just take Laurel Canyon for example.
Speaker 4: Laurel Canyon for many people was a literal place but
Speaker 4: also a metaphorical place. And for me it was the
Speaker 4: same thing. I knew that Carol King and Joni Mitchell
Speaker 4: and all these people that I loved were living up there.
Speaker 4: I have two stories about Laurel Canyon that are particular.
Speaker 4: Would you like to hear them? Yes, okay. One is
Speaker 4: that in high school, Bobby Carodine, who was David Carodine's
Speaker 4: brother and he was an actor, also went to my
Speaker 4: high school.
Speaker 3: He was a little bit older than I was.
Speaker 4: I think, and he asked me on a date. And
Speaker 4: he had a little Alfa Romeo, like a red sports car.
Speaker 4: So he said, let's go for a ride, you know,
Speaker 4: just drive around. And I think it was a school night,
Speaker 4: so it was pretty early, but we were driving around
Speaker 4: and he says, well, let's go up and visit my brother.
Speaker 4: Now his brother at the time was David Carodine and
Speaker 4: he was doing the series Kung Fu, remember that.
Speaker 3: So I said sure.
Speaker 4: At that time, I had eaten at home. And he
Speaker 4: takes us up and David was married to Barbara Hershey,
Speaker 4: who at that time was going by the name Barbara
Speaker 4: Hershey Seagull because Siegel like Siegel exactly exactly. So they
Speaker 4: were like, okay, let's go see what my brother's doing.
Speaker 4: So we show up and they had a little baby,
Speaker 4: and the baby wasn't even walking, it was just a
Speaker 4: crawling baby. But it was Laurel Canyon. They were hippies,
Speaker 4: it was not they had a big, huge dog.
Speaker 3: It was not the cleanest of kitchens, let's say.
Speaker 4: But the baby was on the floor and I took
Speaker 4: one look around and I was like, I'm not really
Speaker 4: like vibing with this whole you know.
Speaker 3: Like not really clean vibe.
Speaker 4: So yeah, but the baby is there and so cute,
Speaker 4: and she's making some kind of dinner, and you know,
Speaker 4: we all sit down to eat, and they asked me
Speaker 4: if I wanted to eat, and I said no because
Speaker 4: I had just eaten at my parents, right, So I said,
Speaker 4: thank you very much. Would you like something to drink?
Speaker 4: And I said yes? What could they do to get
Speaker 4: something to drink? So she passes over a communal bowl
Speaker 4: of water? Amazing, and so I did one of those
Speaker 4: fake things where you like pretend you're sipping but you're
Speaker 4: really just.
Speaker 3: Like your lips are clothes, like you know now during COVID,
Speaker 3: that wouldn't fly. So that was one Laurel Canyon story, but.
Speaker 2: It was Laura Canyon.
Speaker 3: Yes, it really did.
Speaker 2: Communal bowl of water.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 3: But the thing was that people really believed it.
Speaker 4: They believed in this idea of free love and taking
Speaker 4: care of each other and everybody shares everything, and so
Speaker 4: there was something to it that really was authentic, wasn't fake.
Speaker 4: I mean, they were in a private in their moment
Speaker 4: at home and that's how they were living. So no judgment,
Speaker 4: just my own issues. I kind of the other Laurel
Speaker 4: Canyon story that's so great? Is so, this is so fun.
Speaker 4: Nobody's ever asked me this stuff before. So do you
Speaker 4: talk about those stories?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 4: So, two of my best friends growing up were Catholic
Speaker 4: and they went to a Catholic girls school called Corvallis.
Speaker 4: It was on Laurel Canyon, just south of Ventura Boulevard.
Speaker 4: The building is still there, but it's not a girls
Speaker 4: school anymore. And one of their best friends there was
Speaker 4: Melanie Griffith. So I met Melanie when I was like
Speaker 4: sixteen or seventeen years old, right, And Melanie was dating
Speaker 4: Don Johnson at that time already and Don had a
Speaker 4: house in Laurel Canyon. Share also had a house up
Speaker 4: the street from them, and she had a turquoise blue
Speaker 4: Dino Ferrari. And I've never asked her this, but I
Speaker 4: will one days that true.
Speaker 3: Did you have a turquoise blue Dino Ferrari? I believe
Speaker 3: that Share would have had that, I think.
Speaker 4: So Melanie and Don were seeing each other and we
Speaker 4: were over there one day, but it was cold.
Speaker 3: It was Don's house, but Melanie was still in high school.
Speaker 4: But it was also kind of random because she was
Speaker 4: still dating Don so I don't know.
Speaker 3: She lived at home or she lived with Donna. Very
Speaker 3: free love, very free love. So Melanie says to don Donnie,
Speaker 3: it's cold. Can you light a fire? And he says, yeah, sure.
Speaker 4: So we girls are outside, were doing something, we're laughing whatever.
Speaker 3: We hear some noise. We don't think much of it.
Speaker 4: We come back in and there's a gorgeous fire roaring
Speaker 4: in this Laurel Canyon cottage. And Melanie says.
Speaker 3: Where'd you get the fire? Would? He says, I chopped
Speaker 3: up one of the chairs.
Speaker 5: What she did?
Speaker 3: He chopped up one of the dining room chairs. What
Speaker 3: was happening? I don't know.
Speaker 4: So Melanie says one night, we want to fix you
Speaker 4: up with somebody, and I said, okay, who.
Speaker 3: She says, really nice daisi Arnt Junior. I'm like, oh yeah,
Speaker 3: he's kind of cute. Yeah that'd be fun, let's do it.
Speaker 4: So I was driving my parents Barracuda because as one does,
Speaker 4: and I go pick up Melanie at Tippy's house.
Speaker 2: So Tippy Hendron is melanie mother. She was a big
Speaker 2: star for all of you.
Speaker 4: All the Hitchcock movies, she did the Birds, she did
Speaker 4: so many Hitchcock films. Marnie I think she was in
Speaker 4: there too, and I go pick up Melanie and she says,
Speaker 4: you know, like I'll be right there. Somebody lets me
Speaker 4: into the house and in the backyard and I'm not
Speaker 4: kidding you is a black panther. Because Tippy was an
Speaker 4: animal activist and she kept this black panther or puma
Speaker 4: or whatever it is. It was all black, right, big,
Speaker 4: all in the backyard.
Speaker 3: And I'm looking through the sliding glass like I'm not
Speaker 3: going out there, going out there. So we go, Melanie
Speaker 3: comes down, we go.
Speaker 4: We go to Desi's house to pick him up, and
Speaker 4: that's where Donnie is so and the four of us
Speaker 4: go in one car to a restaurant. I mean probably
Speaker 4: I was seventeen, yeah, probably twenty, I don't know young,
Speaker 4: So no, we couldn't have been that young, because this.
Speaker 3: Is part of the story.
Speaker 4: We go to this restaurant in Century City that was
Speaker 4: very popular at the time, called Yamato's. It was in
Speaker 4: the what is now the Fairmont Saint Regis.
Speaker 3: I guess is that what it's called, But it used
Speaker 3: to be.
Speaker 4: The Century Plaza adult So it was a Japanese restaurant
Speaker 4: and it was the kind of restaurant where it had
Speaker 4: the soji screens so that every i could have private rooms,
Speaker 4: and then they would have these soji screens that would
Speaker 4: close off the little rooms.
Speaker 3: And there was.
Speaker 4: A sunken seating with Tommy Matt so everybody sat on
Speaker 4: the floor and it was very lovely. And we go
Speaker 4: in and the matre D meets us at the restaurant
Speaker 4: and he says, mister Arnest.
Speaker 3: So nice to see you.
Speaker 4: Miss Manelli has just arrived. Now he dated Liza Minelli
Speaker 4: and they had just broken up.
Speaker 6: Oh so if you could see me in his face,
Speaker 6: like you're telling the story with the matre D kind
Speaker 6: of giving the non verbal we have a problem here.
Speaker 3: Who's like, what would you like me to do? Right?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 3: So they put us in one of those private rooms
Speaker 3: with the soji squeener.
Speaker 4: It was a big thing that they had broken up, right,
Speaker 4: big thing. So we go into this room, we order food,
Speaker 4: and every time the waitress comes in and she's in
Speaker 4: a kimona with an obi in the whole thing, she
Speaker 4: leaves the door open because she's coming back and forth.
Speaker 4: And every time that door was opened, Desi would get up.
Speaker 3: And close that door. He was so afraid Liza was
Speaker 3: gonna walk by or something. So there was no second
Speaker 3: date because obviously there was no There was no.
Speaker 1: Chemistry exactly, and it was like drama from exactly. For
Speaker 1: the time you grew up here, everyone was sort of accessible.
Speaker 4: Lucy Arness told me that she would, she and Desi,
Speaker 4: because Lucy lived right in the flats of Beverly Hills
Speaker 4: on Roxbury and Lexington, and she said that they would
Speaker 4: go outside and they'd have lemonade stands and they would,
Speaker 4: you know, sell cookies, and they were the kids of
Speaker 4: famous people, Jimmy Stewart right across the street, right across
Speaker 4: the street from them.
Speaker 3: It just no.
Speaker 4: She said that Desi would get in the car and
Speaker 4: give people tours. Oh here's let me show you strangers people.
Speaker 4: That's Lucy suh. I'll show you where everybody else live and.
Speaker 3: You get in the car with them.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, that's the magic of la in the seventies,
Speaker 1: where I was a New York kid watching this on TV,
Speaker 1: going wait a minute, I want to go there. You
Speaker 1: you did shows Life through Company, Mash, Brady Bunch, Happy Days,
Speaker 1: Who's the Boss Bus and Buddies.
Speaker 2: Those are the ones that are I mean all classics.
Speaker 6: Come on?
Speaker 2: Was it not just fun?
Speaker 3: It was so much fun? It was amazing.
Speaker 2: What was like the best?
Speaker 1: Right? Well?
Speaker 4: You know I loved auditioning because you would go to
Speaker 4: a studio, you'd go to an office and all these
Speaker 4: photographs would be on the wall of all the shows
Speaker 4: that you loved. Like the people that produced The Brady
Speaker 4: Bunch also produced Gilligan's Island, so you love that. When
Speaker 4: I did my episode of The Brady Bunch, Pat Conway
Speaker 4: for those of you who want to look it up,
Speaker 4: the episode I do. It's when Greg had to choose
Speaker 4: between his sister and his girlfriend for cheerleader and he
Speaker 4: was the deciding vote and shows Pat.
Speaker 3: Conway by yours.
Speaker 4: But the day that I was filming, the director Dick Michaels,
Speaker 4: he was dating Elizabeth Montgomery who Samantha and Bewitch, So
Speaker 4: she came by the set so I got to see
Speaker 4: her too. Still, to this day, if I go into
Speaker 4: a sound stage, that smell of it's so specific it
Speaker 4: puts me right back like you could be in the seventies.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Table for two. Rita has had a
Speaker 1: very successful career in television, movies and as a producer,
Speaker 1: but she has another passion music. A few years ago
Speaker 1: she decided to follow her dreams, and I want to
Speaker 1: know what inspired her latest album of duets.
Speaker 2: So, Rita, you have an album out called Reata Wilson
Speaker 2: Nowe Forever. So I've been duets. Duets, No, it's duets.
Speaker 1: It's because yes, it's important, because I want to ask
Speaker 1: you about the people you sing with, because you sing
Speaker 1: with like really cool viva, but you also picked really
Speaker 1: great songs over that time.
Speaker 2: So what made you choose these songs? And then I
Speaker 2: would would like to kind of go.
Speaker 1: Through and like I just want to share who you're singing, Like,
Speaker 1: I mean, these are all songs I loved growing up with.
Speaker 2: So we have a very similar.
Speaker 3: Vibe in fantastic music in the seventies.
Speaker 1: Ye, So for the people like where is the love
Speaker 1: you sing with Smokey Robinson, because you chose these artists
Speaker 1: to perform with, Like what was like maybe a word
Speaker 1: or something about like Keith Urban and Willie Nelson like
Speaker 1: all these Jackson Brown, like this.
Speaker 2: Is that thing. Everyone needs to download this album?
Speaker 3: Go thank you well. I love the seventies.
Speaker 4: My very first album was cover songs from the sixties
Speaker 4: and seventies.
Speaker 3: That album was called MFM.
Speaker 4: And when I had done a number of albums in
Speaker 4: between of original music that I wrote, because I started
Speaker 4: going down to Nowville and writing with a bunch of
Speaker 4: people down there, and I thought, maybe it's time to
Speaker 4: revisit some cover songs again. And I started thinking what
Speaker 4: would be fun to do, and this idea of doing
Speaker 4: duets but of songs that haven't been done as duets
Speaker 4: started to really formulate, right only whereas the Love had
Speaker 4: been a duet in the seventies with ROBERTA. Flack and
Speaker 4: Donnie Hathaway. So my co producer, Matt Rawlings, and I
Speaker 4: he's an amazing producer. He's the one Grammy's for Willie
Speaker 4: Nelson's Gershwin album and the Sinatra album. I was like,
Speaker 4: he knows what I'm he knows what I'm trying to
Speaker 4: go for. So we started talking and we started with
Speaker 4: a huge grab bag of music, just all different kinds
Speaker 4: of songs.
Speaker 3: We love this, we love that, let's put this in,
Speaker 3: let's put that in.
Speaker 4: And then we started going through them and saying, Okay,
Speaker 4: which ones would actually be like what I was hoping.
Speaker 4: Conversations between two people so then that started coming up
Speaker 4: with it started narrowing it down even further. And so really,
Speaker 4: when I would present songs to artists that I was
Speaker 4: looking to work with, I would usually give them three
Speaker 4: songs and see which one they responded to the most,
Speaker 4: and they usually picked the one that I would have
Speaker 4: wanted them to pick. So that worked out great, and
Speaker 4: it was just incredible to work with these people that
Speaker 4: I so admired, like Willie Nelson. Also on the album
Speaker 4: Who we did slip Sliding Away, Paul Simon's song and
Speaker 4: that conversation. That song in terms of a conversation took
Speaker 4: on a completely different vibe when you think, oh, this
Speaker 4: is a couple that's been together a really long time
Speaker 4: and they're talking to each other about the other. And
Speaker 4: I just loved interpreting it in a new way of
Speaker 4: looking at it.
Speaker 1: I love that you're sharing it like that because it
Speaker 1: does put a whole new sort of art to the
Speaker 1: listening of you singing with them, because a song that
Speaker 1: wasn't meant to be a duet, but then it sung
Speaker 1: between So just so everyone gets an idea. So this
Speaker 1: crazy love with Keith Urban super good. There's where's the
Speaker 1: love with Smokey Robinson. There's Slip Side and Away with
Speaker 1: Willie Nelson. There's Let It Be Me with Jackson Brown.
Speaker 1: I mean, are we getting here? There's Massachusetts with Leslie
Speaker 1: Odom Junior. I mean, that's beautiful. I'll be there with
Speaker 1: Jimmy Allen without you. Vince Gill I read this to
Speaker 1: Brian Lessay. He was like, oh my god, Songbird with
Speaker 1: Josh Grobin, How did you choose that list? Were these
Speaker 1: men that all you just had a connection with that
Speaker 1: you were like, you know, I want to work.
Speaker 4: With I did not know Willie, but Matt did because
Speaker 4: you had worked with him on the two previous albums.
Speaker 4: And Willy was the first person to sign on, which
Speaker 4: was fantastic. And you know, if somebody like Willy signs on,
Speaker 4: then it makes the next ask the very You're not
Speaker 4: very easy, but a lot easier, you know, like, oh, okay,
Speaker 4: we're talking that kind of an albuml right, fine.
Speaker 3: So we just reached out to people. We were kind
Speaker 3: of lucky.
Speaker 4: Because it was during the second year of the pandemic,
Speaker 4: so still people weren't really touring, they weren't out, so
Speaker 4: people were home and willing to be creative and we're like, okay, yeah.
Speaker 3: We'll do it.
Speaker 2: What a beautiful album.
Speaker 1: And you know, one of the things that I love
Speaker 1: about learning about you and learning about the music side
Speaker 1: of you when you wanted to express yourself artistically through
Speaker 1: your voice and your music and you thought maybe that
Speaker 1: chapter had passed because.
Speaker 2: We all feel like as we get older.
Speaker 1: Oh you know, and you, I know you spoke with
Speaker 1: Bruce Bringsteen who was like, hey, no, because that takes courage.
Speaker 4: It was so empowering, illuminating, exciting to hear this from
Speaker 4: Bruce Springsteen, who I asked once when he was talking
Speaker 4: a lot about songwriting, and I was just enraptured by it.
Speaker 4: And there was a pause in the conversation and I said,
Speaker 4: all right, I had just started writing music, and he said,
Speaker 4: I asked him this, what makes me think that I
Speaker 4: can start writing now and you've been doing it all
Speaker 4: your life. I'm getting a really late start, and he said,
Speaker 4: because Read's creativity is time independent, and that hearing that
Speaker 4: it just felt so true to me. And I had
Speaker 4: never heard anybody put it to me like that. I'd
Speaker 4: never heard that concept, but it got me thinking that, Yeah,
Speaker 4: who's to say that you're only allowed to be creative
Speaker 4: and be valued for that.
Speaker 3: When you're in your twenties or you're in your early thirties.
Speaker 4: Or whatever, who says that there's a clock on creativity
Speaker 4: and that, oh, sorry, your time has passed.
Speaker 3: And the clock has run out on you.
Speaker 2: I loved hearing that.
Speaker 4: Oh it's just because I believe where so many people
Speaker 4: are creative, and I'm reading that Rick Rubin book right now.
Speaker 3: The creative act.
Speaker 4: A way of being or a way of living, and people,
Speaker 4: I think when they're younger, they get different messages about what.
Speaker 3: It means to be creative.
Speaker 4: So you can get the message that you have no talent,
Speaker 4: or you can get the message that is you can't
Speaker 4: make a living being an artist. That's no, you can't
Speaker 4: do that, or you have two left feet, you can't
Speaker 4: be a dancer, or whatever it is.
Speaker 3: I've during my touring when I.
Speaker 4: Sign CDs and things for people, I would hear all
Speaker 4: sorts of stories like that, and that creative impulse gets
Speaker 4: shut down.
Speaker 3: One of the things that Rick Rubin said in.
Speaker 4: His book, which I believe is very accurate, is that
Speaker 4: everybody's life is a creative act. Every morning we get
Speaker 4: up and we can create the day that we want
Speaker 4: to create, how we look at that day, how we
Speaker 4: respond to that day, what we do for ourselves during
Speaker 4: that day or for others. And I love that philosophy
Speaker 4: that everybody does have a creative impulse, but for.
Speaker 3: Some reason, society doesn't really.
Speaker 4: Support that in a way they support other ideas.
Speaker 3: Of like you've got to make a living, you got
Speaker 3: to get an education, you got to know.
Speaker 2: They're right, they don't support it.
Speaker 1: And those early years specifically when people say you can
Speaker 1: the people that are sort of shaping you lean in,
Speaker 1: lean out, and we do. We live in a culture
Speaker 1: that sort of values this is when you can do this,
Speaker 1: or youth is when you can do this.
Speaker 2: But you know, as we get older and it's you
Speaker 2: know you're talking, did you ever.
Speaker 3: Have anything that you wanted to do?
Speaker 4: Like when you look back on your childhood, what did
Speaker 4: you love to do and what gave you the most joy?
Speaker 1: Yes, So I would say, looking back, and this is
Speaker 1: so specific to the time that we grew up because
Speaker 1: we're peers. Is as I put chicken in my mouth,
Speaker 1: I'm nervous from this question.
Speaker 2: I'm like, shove my mouth.
Speaker 3: What was it?
Speaker 1: It was dancing? I would love to have been there.
Speaker 1: You shoot and been in a ballet class.
Speaker 2: But boys were not not happening.
Speaker 1: Tap dance, my sister. I went to herriciles, you know,
Speaker 1: but that was not so okay.
Speaker 3: And then you can take a dance class.
Speaker 2: Now, know, like, why can't I?
Speaker 3: You should do it?
Speaker 2: You know I should do it.
Speaker 1: I asked John bon Jovi, who sat with me and
Speaker 1: at lunch, and I said, you know what a rock
Speaker 1: store means to him?
Speaker 4: And not the ones that are already established rock stars
Speaker 4: as we know them.
Speaker 3: You're talking about the up and coming.
Speaker 2: They're a rock star today.
Speaker 1: So I can tell you who, he said, bodies what
Speaker 1: he felt as a rock star today.
Speaker 3: I think Miley Cyrus is a rock star because she.
Speaker 4: Can sing anything, she can move, She's so uninhibited, she's
Speaker 4: so free.
Speaker 3: I can endlessly watch her.
Speaker 2: She is you can't take your eyes off her.
Speaker 4: And I look at rock stars a very different thing
Speaker 4: than somebody like Beyonce or Adele, who are full on stars.
Speaker 3: We know that.
Speaker 4: But a rock star is somebody who's got that bit
Speaker 4: of an edge right in a weird way, even though
Speaker 4: this is not her genre. But I think Cardi b
Speaker 4: in an odd way as a rock star because there's
Speaker 4: such a.
Speaker 3: Rebel just do what everything he wants to do.
Speaker 4: So there's something about inhabiting that rebel, right, it's presentation.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that's why when we looked at Jagger that night,
Speaker 1: we were like, yeah, come.
Speaker 2: On, here's this guy that just came in.
Speaker 4: And I always look at their shoes like shoes that
Speaker 4: they were, and he was wearing like little black tennises.
Speaker 2: I love that. There's a good.
Speaker 3: Question like what is a rough star wearing real life?
Speaker 2: Now, would there be shoes that you'd be like, Oh,
Speaker 2: I'm surprised.
Speaker 3: If there was a sock with a broken star. Give
Speaker 3: me pause.
Speaker 2: I mean you taught me a word.
Speaker 3: Oh, I love that word I learned from you.
Speaker 4: Tell everyone, well, you know, everybody knows the word shoden freud,
Speaker 4: that is sort of getting pleasure out of somebody's failure.
Speaker 4: But I read that there is actually another word called
Speaker 4: freuden freud, which is being happy for someone's success. And
Speaker 4: I always approached everything that I did that way, even
Speaker 4: when I started first started acting and first started auditioning,
Speaker 4: and people would say, don't ever tell anybody about your auditions.
Speaker 3: Why, well, because they might take the part.
Speaker 4: And I was like, that's ridiculous, Like I'm so different
Speaker 4: from that person or that person.
Speaker 3: If they want me, they'll hire me. If they want her,
Speaker 3: they're going to hire her.
Speaker 4: So I never felt that somebody else's success diminished my
Speaker 4: own or made it less available to me. So I
Speaker 4: loved I can't believe everybody talks about Sean and Freud,
Speaker 4: but nobody talks about Freuden.
Speaker 1: Freud thanks for joining us on Table for two. The
Speaker 1: Rita has been in many movies. There's a wonderful filmmaker
Speaker 1: in particular that she really bonded with, the incredible nor Efron.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a woman that I think I know
Speaker 1: was an important person in your life who I was
Speaker 1: blessed to know, nor Efron.
Speaker 2: Nor clearly loved you, and she clearly knew how to
Speaker 2: write for you.
Speaker 1: Can you tell me about that relationship and the movies
Speaker 1: you made with her and tell.
Speaker 2: Us all about it.
Speaker 4: Well, all my life I really longed for a mentor
Speaker 4: someone who could say, for example, if I had that
Speaker 4: person in music, maybe I would have started music at
Speaker 4: a much younger age. But I didn't have anybody who said,
Speaker 4: oh you love singing, you love performing, Oh you know
Speaker 4: you can do X y Z, or they're singing classes,
Speaker 4: or you can go to this community theater and get
Speaker 4: in a musical or something. But I didn't have anybody
Speaker 4: who directed me. My parents were immigrants, so they weren't
Speaker 4: really up with, you know, what kids were doing in
Speaker 4: those days. So I met Nora because Tom was doing
Speaker 4: Bonfire the Vanities. It was nineteen eighty seven, and we
Speaker 4: rented an apartment in the building in New York, the Apthorpe,
Speaker 4: where Nora and Nick lived and Max, her son and
Speaker 4: Jacob were still little, so they were living there. Right,
Speaker 4: the windows would be open and I would hear like
Speaker 4: this guitar playing going on, you know, every day, guitar playing,
Speaker 4: guitar playing, guitar playing. Well, it turns out it was
Speaker 4: Max Bernstein, Nora's son, and he now is.
Speaker 3: Taylor Swift's lead guitars. So just saying he did with
Speaker 3: those less word right, But.
Speaker 4: I didn't really become friendly with Nora until people probably
Speaker 4: don't know this, but Tom was offered when Harry met Sally,
Speaker 4: and he turned it down because he was going through
Speaker 4: a divorce and he was very happy to be not married,
Speaker 4: and so he could not understand that a person going
Speaker 4: through a divorce would have anything other than he was like,
Speaker 4: I'm so happy.
Speaker 3: But I loved that script. So I read that script when.
Speaker 4: It came in and I just flipped out and I
Speaker 4: was like, God, this woman, Nora Efron, she did that movie.
Speaker 3: We really like.
Speaker 4: This Is My Life with Julie Kavner was about a
Speaker 4: stand up comedian at the age of fifty.
Speaker 3: Yes, remind me to go back to the age of
Speaker 3: fifty and noura okay.
Speaker 4: So I wrote Rob because I had worked with Rob
Speaker 4: and I was like, this script is so fantastic.
Speaker 3: I can Rob Ryder the director. I said, this is
Speaker 3: just mind boggling.
Speaker 4: So cut to a few years later, Tom Is offered
Speaker 4: Sleepless in Seattle, and I loved that script so much
Speaker 4: and it was Nora and I ran into her at
Speaker 4: a party at Linda Oaps's house. Now, Carrie Fishers, I know,
Speaker 4: it's all familiar. Carrie Fisher was in This Is My Life,
Speaker 4: and she was in when Harry met Sally, and I
Speaker 4: just loved how.
Speaker 3: Norah wrote for her.
Speaker 4: So I ran into her the party and I said, Norah,
Speaker 4: if nobody, if you're not going to cast Carrie in
Speaker 4: the role of the Best Friend, which was the Rosie
Speaker 4: O'donnald part. I would love to audition for it. She
Speaker 4: calls me in for an audition. It was like, Oh
Speaker 4: my gosh, this is incredible. So I go in an
Speaker 4: audition and I didn't get the part. They gave it
Speaker 4: to Rosie. But Norah offered me the role of Susie,
Speaker 4: this other character, and I was.
Speaker 3: Like, oh, yeah, that was a really good part of
Speaker 3: this I.
Speaker 4: Really liked that character. It's a big monologue in there.
Speaker 4: So I ended up doing that monologue from about the
Speaker 4: movie An Affair to Remember, and that ended up being
Speaker 4: one of the most fun, most wonderful acting experiences I've
Speaker 4: ever had. Then soon after that, she offered me a
Speaker 4: part in a movie called Mixed Nuts with Steve Martin
Speaker 4: and Madeline Kahn and Richard Kine and Gary Shanley, John Stewart,
Speaker 4: Isn't it Parker Posey is in it, Adam Sandler, Juliet Lewis.
Speaker 3: It was incredible cast. Yeah, Leev Schreiber's first role.
Speaker 4: So then we did that movie and you know, sadly
Speaker 4: it wasn't successful when it came out, but now it's
Speaker 4: become this weird cult favorite it's like, so it's a
Speaker 4: weird movie, but it's a really good weird movie.
Speaker 3: Let me go back to the fifties. Yes, no, so.
Speaker 4: On my fiftieth birthday because Nora actually became like one
Speaker 4: of my best friends. And she sat on my fiftieth
Speaker 4: birthday as she was toasting with a glass of champagne
Speaker 4: because she loved champagne. Here's to turning fifty. Great things
Speaker 4: can happen to you after you turned fifty. I didn't
Speaker 4: direct my first movie until I was fifty. She died
Speaker 4: at seventy one. Look what she did in that twenty
Speaker 4: one years.
Speaker 2: Wow, it's really important to hear that. Yes, you're Utah.
Speaker 2: It's just very and I mean really receiving.
Speaker 4: It because there was no clock on creativity for her.
Speaker 4: She was a journalist, don't forget. She was a hardcore journalist.
Speaker 4: And then she decided she was going to write scripts.
Speaker 4: She wrote Silkwood for Crying out Loud, it's a very
Speaker 4: serious movie.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I had an interesting conversation with a friend of mine.
Speaker 4: He's a Hindu priest, and we were talking about purpose.
Speaker 3: I asked him, well, wait, how.
Speaker 4: Do you how do you know what your purpose is?
Speaker 4: Like you can because you know, we were having conversations.
Speaker 4: I want to do this, I want to do that.
Speaker 4: He goes, You know, purpose is very simple. You ask
Speaker 4: yourself this question, what is it that I can still
Speaker 4: do on my deathbed.
Speaker 3: That will be my purpose?
Speaker 4: That has nothing to do with engaging and I need
Speaker 4: three people to do it or I have to have
Speaker 4: a certain you know, environment to do it.
Speaker 3: And when he said that, I knew exactly what.
Speaker 4: My purpose was, and it was it sounds so simple,
Speaker 4: but to bring joy and want. I want to be
Speaker 4: able to put stuff like that out into the world.
Speaker 3: You know, that's where my head is at.
Speaker 4: That's where my I find the most satisfaction out of
Speaker 4: doing stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Well, I love that you said that because when I
Speaker 1: was thinking about you, joy was the word that came up.
Speaker 2: And I feel that is so nice thing. No, but
Speaker 2: it's the intention.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I do want to know about what it felt like
Speaker 2: to be because I think.
Speaker 1: It's so great to your experience when you are playing
Speaker 1: Roxy in Chicago, Like, was that a good experience to
Speaker 1: be on Broadway?
Speaker 3: Was that a dream?
Speaker 4: Is that right?
Speaker 3: Oh? My god? This was a norm moment.
Speaker 4: Also, really yes, because I got offered to do Chicago,
Speaker 4: and Nora said, well, you know, you should go into
Speaker 4: town and see the show and make sure it's in
Speaker 4: good shape. And what she meant was, you know, is
Speaker 4: it still good? You know, is it falling apart? It's
Speaker 4: been on for so long, how good could it still be?
Speaker 4: So I go into town with Tom and my daughter
Speaker 4: Elizabeth to see the show and at the it's fantastic,
Speaker 4: It's so good. And at the intermission, I turned Tom
Speaker 4: to Elizabeth and I'm like, like, there's no way I'm
Speaker 4: doing this because terrifying, terrifying. I said, there's no way
Speaker 4: I'm doing this or that I can do this. And
Speaker 4: they looked at me like I was nuts, Like what
Speaker 4: are you kidding? You are so doing this, and I'm like, nope, nope,
Speaker 4: I am not Nope, You're doing it. And I was terrified,
Speaker 4: but it brought me talk about connecting dots. Honestly, this
Speaker 4: is why we have to be brave and do things
Speaker 4: that are out of our comfort zone. My dance captain
Speaker 4: Greg Butler, who is still a friend today, he taught
Speaker 4: me so much about courage. He taught me so much
Speaker 4: about patience, about what we do to ourselves in our heads,
Speaker 4: that have nothing to do with what we actually can
Speaker 4: be doing in real life and real time. And he
Speaker 4: was very funny. But after the play was finished, he
Speaker 4: introduced me to the woman who changed my life because
Speaker 4: she was the one who said offered me the idea
Speaker 4: that I could be a songwriter. And her name is
Speaker 4: Kara DioGuardi and she was a songwriter and she had
Speaker 4: done Chicago because she was a judge on American Idol
Speaker 4: and she's fantastic right as a but.
Speaker 3: She was badass. Went to Duke.
Speaker 4: She was a songwriter, had hit songs, was way more
Speaker 4: than what she just was as a judge on Idol.
Speaker 4: But she ended up doing Roxy and Greg said to me,
Speaker 4: you need to meet Kara dio Guardy. I think you
Speaker 4: guys are going to hit it off. So after she
Speaker 4: did the play, I can't remember how long he introduced us,
Speaker 4: we met and in that meeting, the first meeting, she
Speaker 4: said to me, well, so what do you want to do?
Speaker 3: I said, I don't know.
Speaker 4: I probably would give anything if I could write a
Speaker 4: song like you, but I can.
Speaker 3: She goes, why can't you? I was like, well, because
Speaker 3: I don't write music, I don't read music. I'm not
Speaker 3: a musician. You know, I'm play an instrument. I don't
Speaker 3: do anything. She goes, neither do it. Do you have
Speaker 3: something you want to say?
Speaker 4: And when she said that, I was like, literally, I
Speaker 4: got like a butterflies in my stomach and kind of
Speaker 4: like that pit. I'm like, yeah, I totally have something
Speaker 4: I want to say. She goes, I want to write
Speaker 4: your songs with you first two songs, and she did,
Speaker 4: and that opened the door to songwriting.
Speaker 3: And if I had not done Chicago, I way not
Speaker 3: have met Kara.
Speaker 4: I would not have become a songwriter, and I would
Speaker 4: not be here sitting here talking to you about my
Speaker 4: new album.
Speaker 1: As we finish our lunch, I'm thinking of all the
Speaker 1: great things Rita has done in her career and the
Speaker 1: courage she found to start a new chapter in music.
Speaker 1: And what comes to my mind is the theme song
Speaker 1: that used to end the Carol Burnett Show in the
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, and it was I'm so glad we had
Speaker 1: this time together just to have a laugh or sing
Speaker 1: a song. And today I don't know about you, but
Speaker 1: I've had many laughs and we've actually sang songs. So
Speaker 1: let's check in one more time with the incredible Rita Wilson.
Speaker 4: I think being a woman, at least in the generation
Speaker 4: that I grew up in, was it was very easy
Speaker 4: to be visibly invisible. And because I was taught, you know,
Speaker 4: don't make waves. You're here to please people, make everybody
Speaker 4: feel good, make everybody, you know.
Speaker 3: Not feel threatened. So I think that it takes.
Speaker 4: At least for me, it took a really long time
Speaker 4: to sort of, I like to say, find my voice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mean that literally and metaphorically.
Speaker 4: And I do believe, like I said earlier, that people
Speaker 4: know who they are at a very young age, but
Speaker 4: it gets sort of buried, yep, if you don't have
Speaker 4: the right circumstances.
Speaker 3: You know. I still feel that way sometimes, you know,
Speaker 3: I still.
Speaker 2: Feel don't go away forward, No, And it's.
Speaker 4: So ingrained in your upbringing and everything. But I try
Speaker 4: to be aware of it and try not to let
Speaker 4: it get out of the way, you know, like to
Speaker 4: have to catch it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you catch it. And I think you said and
Speaker 1: I say the same thing. It's finding your voice. And
Speaker 1: I think what Nora said this is also of coming back.
Speaker 1: I think our conversation sort of as we end, it's
Speaker 1: like at fifty we found out life begins.
Speaker 2: When do you find your voice? When? Who do you know?
Speaker 2: Who you want?
Speaker 1: Because with age and wisdom, and I just want to
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you for coming here and having lunch.
Speaker 2: I want everyone to.
Speaker 1: Download Rita Wilson Now and Forever Duets because it really.
Speaker 2: It's just a beautiful album.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: So you're a beautiful person. It's joy.
Speaker 1: I hope everyone who pulled up a chair go have
Speaker 1: a great day.
Speaker 4: I wish everyone could have lunch with you because you
Speaker 4: have the best questions. It was effortless and so much
Speaker 4: fun and you are gifted at this.
Speaker 3: Thank you now. The only thing we need to add
Speaker 3: is a couple of dance lessons.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's do that, okay. Great.
Speaker 1: Table for two with Bruce Bosi is produced by iHeartRadio
Speaker 1: seven three seven Park and Airmail. Our executive producers are
Speaker 1: Bruce Bosi and Nathan King. Table for two is researched
Speaker 1: and written by Bridget arsenalt. Our sound engineers are Paul
Speaker 1: Bowman and Alyssa Midcalf. Table for two is LA production
Speaker 1: team is Danielle Romo and Lorraine viz Our. Music supervisor
Speaker 1: is Randall poster Our Talent Booking is by James Harkin.
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Amy Sugarman, Uni Cher, Kevin Yuvane, Bobby Bauer,
Speaker 1: Alison Kant, Graber, barbur and Jen and Jeff Klein, and
Speaker 1: the staff at the Tower Bar in the world famous
Speaker 1: Sunset Tower Hotel. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
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Speaker 1: favorite shows.