Speaker 1: Ladies and gentleman Donald Ebody, Donald Nice. He's wearing his.
Speaker 2: Hot California. Don't you have Arizona, Nevada?
Speaker 3: As this motherfuckeris alte No.
Speaker 1: This is a really good smoothie I just got. Oh,
Speaker 1: it's got I think it's got dates in it or
Speaker 1: figs in it or some ship dates smoothie?
Speaker 3: What is that?
Speaker 1: I didn't hear you guys ever go to Earth Cafe
Speaker 1: a couple of Yeah, of course, Earth Cafe is my jam.
Speaker 3: It's Earth Cafe Earth You.
Speaker 1: It's spelled for you listeners who might one day visit
Speaker 1: West Hollywood, California. It's spelled you are th h And
Speaker 1: it's really good. You know what I like to get?
Speaker 3: Donald Deez motherfucking nuts.
Speaker 1: Way, mister, what's his name, mister mister uh, mister beats.
Speaker 1: What's his name? Daniel, mister be the beast, his beast,
Speaker 1: mister beast. He's got God. This guy is fucking breaking
Speaker 1: in the money. He's got a freak Anyway, his team
Speaker 1: I know, and he has chocolate that's called D's Nuts.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm giving this guy a promo
Speaker 1: because I haven't even tried these nuts. But his team
Speaker 1: slid into my DMS saying they wanted to send me
Speaker 1: something and it looked really good. It looked like Reese's
Speaker 1: peanut butter cups.
Speaker 2: I don't want to I don't necessarily want to eat
Speaker 2: mister beasts. Well it's called these nuts, so it doesn't work,
Speaker 2: but it's funny. You know, it really works. I'm sorry
Speaker 2: I heard this on the internet. My kid is now
Speaker 2: surfing YouTube when we're in the car on the way
Speaker 2: to basketball, and I heard a really good D's Nuts
Speaker 2: one and I don't want to say it because I
Speaker 2: don't want to sound like I'm kind of like, you know,
Speaker 2: but the joke is the dude goes, what's your name?
Speaker 2: And he goes imagine And the guy goes, imagine Dragon,
Speaker 2: What imagine Dragon? These nuts all over your face? And
Speaker 2: I lost it.
Speaker 3: My kid played this ship and I lost it. I
Speaker 3: lost the best dad because but.
Speaker 1: Donald Donald's the perfect dad for a little teenage boy
Speaker 1: because he's.
Speaker 3: Like, he's nuts. My kid's nine.
Speaker 1: You reminded me of something I learned this weekend from
Speaker 1: a sixteen year old Donald. Have you heard of the
Speaker 1: expression that's now on TikTok and a sixteen year old
Speaker 1: boy explained it to me. It's called the giacht. Is
Speaker 1: that like when no, Donald, that's an egot. Okay, what
Speaker 1: it's used to describe, Joel, you might want to adopt this,
Speaker 1: write it down. It's when you see a really nice,
Speaker 1: juicy bottom, and that's called the giach. Do you know
Speaker 1: why it's called the giyat? Donald?
Speaker 3: Why?
Speaker 1: Because when you see it, you go yeah, no.
Speaker 4: Oh, my word, the children.
Speaker 2: That's exactly how I felt when they said, imagine dragon,
Speaker 2: these nuts all over your face.
Speaker 3: I laughed for like five minutes. But yo, look, I don't.
Speaker 1: Want Henry Lawrence who taught me this, And I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't understand. Why are they calling a nice bubble
Speaker 1: butt a gillacht? He goes, because when you see it,
Speaker 1: you think gillacht diale.
Speaker 3: That's just horrible.
Speaker 1: That's why I thought you'd like that. You think it's horrible.
Speaker 3: I like these nuts jokes better. But all right, that's
Speaker 3: just me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw mission impossible. It was fucking awesome.
Speaker 3: It didn't do that well.
Speaker 1: Well, it didn't do that well?
Speaker 3: And are we allowed to talk about that? Okay? Now
Speaker 3: this is where we get we're not allowed to talk
Speaker 3: about this.
Speaker 1: We're not allowed to talk about seeing a movie, Joel,
Speaker 1: I think some.
Speaker 4: People will constitute that as promotion.
Speaker 1: Well, you can leave that in. You can leave that
Speaker 1: in because we're learning, all right, guys, So let's just
Speaker 1: get to the obvious. There's a SAG strike, there's a
Speaker 1: Writer's Guild strike. We're not allowed to talk about Scrubs
Speaker 1: because one of the rules that we received is you
Speaker 1: cannot even promote a show that would have been struck
Speaker 1: had it been filming now, and obviously Scrubs would have
Speaker 1: been struck, right.
Speaker 3: Donald, Yep?
Speaker 1: Now, Joelle, I saw that full House of the TV
Speaker 1: show they just started a rewatch podcast and it said
Speaker 1: that they had received some sort of permission from SAG
Speaker 1: to do it, and I was like, I'm gonna ask
Speaker 1: Joelle about that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so the rules have come down and there's.
Speaker 3: A little bit confusing.
Speaker 4: So basically, so SAG wrote to iHeart it was basically like, hey,
Speaker 4: you guys can continue to do rewatch podcasts if you're
Speaker 4: under con tracked to do them.
Speaker 3: So okay.
Speaker 4: Then we got through the SAG rules we're going through
Speaker 4: with a fine line and it said if you are SAG,
Speaker 4: you cannot promote a show. And then sag asked cosplayers
Speaker 4: not to promote a show if they ever want to
Speaker 4: be in the union. So then I was like, the
Speaker 4: waiver seems interesting and a little bit confusing, and so
Speaker 4: you know, when you came back and you're like, I
Speaker 4: don't think we should do it, I was like, Okay,
Speaker 4: I think it's a good to be in alignment with
Speaker 4: the union and support and we are a very visible podcast,
Speaker 4: and so I like the idea, and we're looking for
Speaker 4: ways to pivot when we run out of Scrubs episodes.
Speaker 4: So I thought, you know what, this might be a
Speaker 4: been few time for us to try some new things.
Speaker 1: Joelle, I actually said that to Donald because Donald and
Speaker 1: I went to picket Netflix today to show our support
Speaker 1: for our union, and I said to him, I'm in
Speaker 1: the car. I think it's actually fine because it'll get
Speaker 1: us practicing and doing other things but the show since
Speaker 1: we're running out of episode and we want the show
Speaker 1: to continue.
Speaker 4: M Yeah, I think it's a good opportunity for us
Speaker 4: in a good way for us to show our support
Speaker 4: and hopefully educate folks. I'm like, why it's important to
Speaker 4: be in alignment with the union with the union is
Speaker 4: trying to get for everybody.
Speaker 3: It's a big deal. What's happening right now?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, whether you agree with it or whether
Speaker 2: you don't agree with it, the fact that all of
Speaker 2: these people are coming together for one cause, for one
Speaker 2: purpose is powerful no matter.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: That was a conversation. That's another conversation. We'll get into
Speaker 2: it later on too, as we get into the show.
Speaker 2: But that was another conversation Zach and I had in
Speaker 2: a car, like what are we doing this for?
Speaker 3: What's the end game? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Or We have a great guest today whose name is
Speaker 1: Adam Conover, and he hosts a show called Adam Ruins Everything,
Speaker 1: but most importantly for our purposes, he's been very vocal
Speaker 1: on social media. Choell, correct me. I'm ever wrong about
Speaker 1: explaining this strike and the Writer's Guild strike to people
Speaker 1: that don't understand it, because most of our listeners, as
Speaker 1: we obviously understand, are not in the industry, and you
Speaker 1: might think, like, what is this about. You know, when
Speaker 1: you think of Hollywood, you think of rich, famous celebrities,
Speaker 1: and of course this strike is not about the rock
Speaker 1: It's not really about even Donald and I. It's not
Speaker 1: about a lot of people I mean in the macro,
Speaker 1: of course it is, but it's really about the fact
Speaker 1: that an animal correct the stat if I'm wrong. But
Speaker 1: I just recently read it, and that is that only
Speaker 1: twelve percent of SAG members make the minimum amount, which
Speaker 1: is twenty six thousand dollars a year in order to
Speaker 1: qualify for health insurance. So it's about so many people
Speaker 1: that are barely getting by with the way the industry
Speaker 1: currently is, and how all of these new modes of
Speaker 1: receiving the entertainment that is streaming, have cut out the
Speaker 1: main way that actors and writers were making money, which
Speaker 1: was participating in residuals and of course AI and.
Speaker 2: All the Yeah, well I want to get into AI too,
Speaker 2: because you know, I heard rumors and I don't know
Speaker 2: if this is true, and we'll talk to Adam about this,
Speaker 2: but I heard rumors that they had already started contacting
Speaker 2: people or have taken pictures of people's likenesses in the background,
Speaker 2: paid them one time, and then used, yeah, there, this
Speaker 2: is true.
Speaker 1: Well what it is we can ask Adam. But as
Speaker 1: I understand it, it wasn't for a perpetuity. Although that's
Speaker 1: super sketch. Who's gonna who's gonna look and and and
Speaker 1: be able to who's gonna freaking who's gonna audit whether
Speaker 1: you're right. But let's say you're on Let's say you're
Speaker 1: a background person on Game of Thrones or or something,
Speaker 1: some big crowd scene. Right, So they pay you to
Speaker 1: be a background performer for the day, which is I
Speaker 1: don't know, two hundred fifty dollars, like you sure the
Speaker 1: sagmentum what the sagmentimum background is? And then they scan
Speaker 1: you because they're gonna also use you digitally in crowd
Speaker 1: scenes in that show. So the ridiculous deal seem to be,
Speaker 1: we're gonna pay you for one working day, but then
Speaker 1: also scan you and use you in perpetuity on this
Speaker 1: show for that whatever that minimal day rate is. So
Speaker 1: that's all crazy stuff. That's that that that's happening, and
Speaker 1: we're gonna ask Adam all about that. But most importantly,
Speaker 1: we want to have Adam on the show for our listeners.
Speaker 1: Because we, the four of us, only know little tidbits
Speaker 1: about it. We wanted someone to come on who could
Speaker 1: explain it all, not only to us but to you
Speaker 1: and hopefully we can all gain some insight what this
Speaker 1: what this is all about, and what is the endgame?
Speaker 1: As Donald said, how does this possibly end? And how
Speaker 1: long could it feasibly be? I gotta say one funny
Speaker 1: story before bite, Adam, and do you remember the the
Speaker 1: Key and Peel sketch you guys were where Barack Obama
Speaker 1: gets off the stage and to all the African American people,
Speaker 1: he's giving the hip hop hugs. This is exactly what
Speaker 1: happened when Donald and I were just picking it. Donald,
Speaker 1: every single African American actor was like yo to Donald
Speaker 1: giving him hugs. They remembered him, they knew him in
Speaker 1: New York, they know his mom, all this stuff. Like
Speaker 1: Donald was like fucking basically Obama on the picket line.
Speaker 1: And then they'd seen me in like, oh hey, how
Speaker 1: are you? How are you?
Speaker 3: How are Yeah?
Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, dude, this is real life.
Speaker 1: This is the real life version of that Key and Peel.
Speaker 3: See, this hasn't happened in a long time where people were.
Speaker 2: Like, yo, fuck Faison, Donald, Faison, I'm sorry, what's your name?
Speaker 1: To Zach that really happened to him. And then the
Speaker 1: same guy who said that was like, yeah, I'm killing
Speaker 1: it with the Spectrum commercials with Donald Donald. I was
Speaker 1: like when I left the picking like Donald should run
Speaker 1: for office. I mean, everybody loved Donald. They were going crazy,
Speaker 1: They're asking for selfies with Donald.
Speaker 3: I got haters. I got haters. Don't everybody got haters? Donald,
Speaker 3: I got, I gotta have haters. I ain't doing it right.
Speaker 1: Donald. You must have left that picket line being like, damn,
Speaker 1: I'm beloved, no, because you always tell that story how
Speaker 1: it was scrubs guy, and today today it was it was.
Speaker 1: It was definitely Donald Faison and white scrubs and.
Speaker 3: White scrubs, right, all.
Speaker 1: Right, So let's count in and inviting Adam.
Speaker 6: Go ahead, Donald sties about sure, we made about a
Speaker 6: bunch of.
Speaker 5: The stories. So here, ladies and gentlemen, give it up.
Speaker 1: Oh god, I don't think that's how you say his name, Donald,
Speaker 1: How do you say it? Adam Conover? I did say that,
Speaker 1: I know, but you said it with your Oprah voice,
Speaker 1: and it was really hard to understand.
Speaker 3: You're a dick, Adam.
Speaker 1: You're very handsome man. Yeah, I told you that.
Speaker 2: I was expecting something else.
Speaker 1: Show, and so I know what you look like, but
Speaker 1: I didn't know I was gonna get movement?
Speaker 2: Is I am never well, this is harassment. I have
Speaker 2: never seen your show. It's fine, But as soon as
Speaker 2: I saw you, I was like, hello.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well now this chat's going to be If
Speaker 1: you guys need to google image if you don't know
Speaker 1: what Adam looks like. He's a very handsome man, and
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna make this chat even more enjoyable.
Speaker 3: Donald I agree. Wow you guys, You guys are too nice.
Speaker 1: Adam, thank you so much for coming on. We this
Speaker 1: is our very first episode not talking about our television
Speaker 1: show because we are honoring the strike rules and we
Speaker 1: all have questions we don't know understand we have. We
Speaker 1: know we know some basic things about the strike. Our audience, obviously,
Speaker 1: for the most part, is not entertainment, and we thought
Speaker 1: they probably have lots of questions because they probably are
Speaker 1: sitting there going why is Leonardo DiCaprio on strike? I
Speaker 1: don't understand he has a yacht.
Speaker 2: And also for those audience members out there who do
Speaker 2: know who are in the union and who are actors
Speaker 2: but still don't know what's going on, this is a
Speaker 2: great conversation to have because there are a.
Speaker 3: Bunch of people out there.
Speaker 2: There are a bunch of people out there that have
Speaker 2: no clue what's happening.
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm happy to answer every question as best I can,
Speaker 3: and uh my credentials in that matter, in case you're
Speaker 3: curious are I'm on the board of the Writer's Guild
Speaker 3: of America West and the negotiating committee for the Writers
Speaker 3: Guild on a sag After a member as well, so
Speaker 3: I know a little bit more about the Writers Guild
Speaker 3: than about sag After. But I bet I can answer
Speaker 3: almost every one of your questions.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, let's start at the very beginning, which Donald
Speaker 1: is you know, is a very good place to start.
Speaker 2: Let's start at the very Okay, So which line should
Speaker 2: we go to if we're looking for hot chicks?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Donald wants to know first and foremost, even as a
Speaker 1: married man. As a married man, Donald wants to know
Speaker 1: which picket line has the most baddies.
Speaker 3: The answer is absolutely Netflix. You need to go to
Speaker 3: the Netflix line.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, there you go, Donald, you've been informed that's
Speaker 1: actually where we picketed today. We picketed today. Let's get
Speaker 1: to the basics, Adam, and we'll just start with SAG
Speaker 1: if you don't mind, because that's the one that is
Speaker 1: obviously become on our minds. I'm in the Writers' Guild too,
Speaker 1: but Donald's in SAG and obviously one hundred and sixty
Speaker 1: thousand people just went on the strike, and those were
Speaker 1: all the most of the celebrity names that people know.
Speaker 1: So we've explained it in mediocre terms to people trying
Speaker 1: to explain the idea of residuals, and we can will
Speaker 1: separate AI out for just for the moment, let's just
Speaker 1: talk about how people's livelihoods have been changed with the
Speaker 1: move to streaming. Can you can you explain it like
Speaker 1: I'm five, as they say to our audience who are
Speaker 1: not in entertainment.
Speaker 3: Sure, So the last time writers and actors went on
Speaker 3: strike together was nineteen sixty. It was sixty three years ago,
Speaker 3: and what we want in that negotiation was this thing
Speaker 3: called residuals. And the residual payment as it was then
Speaker 3: and mostly still is today, is that when something that
Speaker 3: we make that you know, we create as the original
Speaker 3: artists who created the work, and then this includes directors
Speaker 3: as well and crew members, every time that airs, we
Speaker 3: receive a percentage of the profit or we receive a payment,
Speaker 3: So it's not technically a percentage of the profit. It's
Speaker 3: a it's you know, we receive a payment every single
Speaker 3: time it airs. And you know that was invented in
Speaker 3: the days of broadcast, then updated for cable where you know,
Speaker 3: it's near programming, so every time they choose to rerun it,
Speaker 3: you get a payment. It also applies to theatrical releases
Speaker 3: and you know physical DVD as well, And this ended
Speaker 3: up becoming a fundamental part of our our compensation where
Speaker 3: you know, as folks may not realize that for the
Speaker 3: average working actor or writer, you know, you work one
Speaker 3: job and you get paid for that job, but it
Speaker 3: can be six months to a year before you get
Speaker 3: your next job, during which time you're not sitting around,
Speaker 3: you're working. You're a plot you know, you're auditioning, you're
Speaker 3: writing spec scripts, you're developing, right, but you're not paid
Speaker 3: for that work. So residuals became an essential part of
Speaker 3: how you know what it's like to make a living
Speaker 3: in this town. So, for example, I created a show
Speaker 3: called Adam Ruins. Everything I wrote on that show I
Speaker 3: also acted in it, and every every year that the
Speaker 3: show aired, I would receive something like twenty five thousand
Speaker 3: dollars in residuals for all the various runs of the episodes,
Speaker 3: and the residual is it's the first time it runs,
Speaker 3: and it goes down every time. So, you know, the
Speaker 3: first job, we get the twenty five thousand dollars. Now
Speaker 3: I get maybe five grand year or something like that.
Speaker 3: Now twenty five thousand dollars. I'm not getting rich off
Speaker 3: of that, but that's like, you know, part of a
Speaker 3: mortgage payment for your year. You're right, that's just that's
Speaker 3: part of a living and it adds up with everything,
Speaker 3: all the other money that you're making. It helps you
Speaker 3: make a life here.
Speaker 2: Because coming here you gotta hustle regardless. And we all know, yes,
Speaker 2: right that, we all know this town is about hustling
Speaker 2: and it never fucking pays. But you know, back then,
Speaker 2: at least we got some sort of you know, here
Speaker 2: you go, here's an extra bonus of we played it again.
Speaker 3: And by the way, some people wonder, what is the
Speaker 3: concept behind a residual at all? Why do we think
Speaker 3: we deserve one? Because most people who do a job,
Speaker 3: they're like, well, you know, if I help build a boat,
Speaker 3: I don't get money every time someone rents the boat
Speaker 3: or whatever. Right, the reason for that is and this
Speaker 3: is I think one of the interesting things that's underappreciated
Speaker 3: is that most writers or performers, you own the copyright
Speaker 3: to what you make. Right, you write a novel, you
Speaker 3: own the copyright to it, and you have to get
Speaker 3: paid every time. Right. In the entertainment industry, we give
Speaker 3: the copyright to the movie studio when I write a
Speaker 3: screenplay or an episode of television. I don't retain the
Speaker 3: copyright like a novelist does, right, I give it to
Speaker 3: the company. And so the residual is like a really
Speaker 3: payback for me assigning the copyright to them. So sorry,
Speaker 3: what was your question going to be, Zach?
Speaker 1: You know, I want to just help parse out for
Speaker 1: people to remove the celebrity aspects of not that obviously
Speaker 1: those people want residuals, Donald and I want residuals. But
Speaker 1: I want to just parse out that everyone in Hollywood,
Speaker 1: for the most part is a freelance worker. Yes, some people, yes,
Speaker 1: have been very lucky and made a ton of money,
Speaker 1: but think of the bulk of the guild, and those
Speaker 1: can range from people who work every once in a while,
Speaker 1: and the are date players who get a line here
Speaker 1: and there. They're the smaller characters. Those could be people
Speaker 1: that have a big show but have had haven't had
Speaker 1: a show again in years. And those can be also
Speaker 1: a background performers who works as the people in the
Speaker 1: background and everything and anything in betw.
Speaker 2: I'm about to say, there's so much. There's so many
Speaker 2: other things. There are people that were on television shows
Speaker 2: for years and didn't get paid money because of course
Speaker 2: the way contracts were made, and didn't get paid a
Speaker 2: lot of money. And we are led to believe that
Speaker 2: their persona in the world is big and they're famous
Speaker 2: and everything like that, but their check was little.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah. Think of that ultimate example of that wonderful actor.
Speaker 1: I can't think of his name, Joelle, you might know it,
Speaker 1: who was on The Cosby Show and he was working
Speaker 1: as a grocery bagger and I remember it went viral
Speaker 1: because the world was shocked, and he was like, noh, yeah,
Speaker 1: why are you shocked? I worked for a while on
Speaker 1: the Cosby Show, but I haven't worked in years, and
Speaker 1: now I need to make a living and pay for
Speaker 1: my family. And there was such an outpouring of love
Speaker 1: for him. He ended up getting lots of jobs, but
Speaker 1: that was a that was a moment that I think
Speaker 1: is really apropos for this discussion, because there's a guy
Speaker 1: who who isn't just a who. Maybe he's not a
Speaker 1: household name, but he was a working actor we all
Speaker 1: grew up watching, and now he's working as a was
Speaker 1: working as a grocery bagger. So I just would help you,
Speaker 1: I guess, Adam, I want you to help us explain
Speaker 1: to the audience how to parse out, yeah, the different
Speaker 1: aspects of the union.
Speaker 3: Look, I saw I saw a great Sorry, sorry.
Speaker 1: I want to say. His name is Jeffrey Owens. Jowell
Speaker 1: just told me go ahead.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean Jeffrey's story is the is the
Speaker 3: common story in Hollywood. I saw some stats today that
Speaker 3: if you go look at the number of actors who
Speaker 3: have appeared on your favorite show, look at like Law
Speaker 3: and Order, Right, thousands of actors have appeared on Law
Speaker 3: and Order over there. Now that's a long show, but
Speaker 3: even a shorter run show, it'll be you know, a
Speaker 3: thousand actors have been on Mad Men or whatever. Right,
Speaker 3: we're talking background actors. We're talking like, you know, people
Speaker 3: who have one or two lines, et cetera. And those
Speaker 3: are middle class jobs. When you turn on your television.
Speaker 3: Ninety five percent of the people you see on there
Speaker 3: are just trying to make a mortgage payment. You know,
Speaker 3: Mariska Hargeta is making a ton of money. The guy
Speaker 3: who's playing the dead body is like hoping to hoping
Speaker 3: to pay rent this month, right, right, And so the
Speaker 3: decline of residuals has hit those folks. So I said that,
Speaker 3: you know, for writing in Adam Ruins Everything, I would
Speaker 3: receive about twenty five grand a year, a little bit
Speaker 3: less for acting. Let's say ten something like that, right,
Speaker 3: my total residual payment. I created a new show for Netflix,
Speaker 3: six episodes called The G Word. Came out in last year,
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two. I just received my first residual payment
Speaker 3: for the entire year of that being on the largest
Speaker 3: platform in the world, whereas Adam Ruins Everything was on
Speaker 3: the smallest channel on basic cable. My entire year's residual
Speaker 3: was five hundred dollars, which is obviously shit.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, dude, listen, man, all right, If I'm on
Speaker 2: a show and it streams like a beast on whatever
Speaker 2: streaming platform it is, and somebody else is on the
Speaker 2: show and it doesn't stream like a beast, here's the question,
Speaker 2: shouldn't I get paid more money in residuals because my
Speaker 2: show was watched more?
Speaker 3: Or I mean, these.
Speaker 1: Are want to connect. I just want to I just
Speaker 1: want to connect the dots for everyone. So Adam's first
Speaker 1: show that he's referencing where he made the twenty five
Speaker 1: and the ten thousand dollars, was a basic a smaller
Speaker 1: basic cable show on te T Now. Yes, yeah, on
Speaker 1: True TV. Now that we the whole world has moved
Speaker 1: to streaming is basically gone. I'm surprised you even got
Speaker 1: five hundred dollars there. It's just not a thing. The
Speaker 1: Netflix model and Netflix began it, if I'm not mistaken,
Speaker 1: was we're not going to participate in that there There
Speaker 1: is no or maybe there's a miniscool amount there, but
Speaker 1: for all intents and purposes, there is no residual. We're
Speaker 1: buying you out and there is no back end money.
Speaker 1: How did they get around that, Adam, I guess because
Speaker 1: it was a new platform. It wasn't cable, it was streaming, right, correct.
Speaker 3: So you know, one of the problems with you know,
Speaker 3: labor negotiations in America, this is just how it works
Speaker 3: in our industry is every time there's a new format,
Speaker 3: we have to renegotiate for that format. So you know,
Speaker 3: the when the Writers Guild was founded ninety years ago,
Speaker 3: SAG after around the same time, or sorry, SAG was
Speaker 3: originally just the Screen Actors Guild, and you know, first
Speaker 3: it just covered film. Then television was invented, and the
Speaker 3: unions had to fight to cover television, and that that
Speaker 3: was just broadcast, right NBC, ABC, CBS. Then cable was invented,
Speaker 3: and so we had to fight to cover cable, had
Speaker 3: to fight to cover HBO, and now streaming and.
Speaker 1: That was DVDs HS and I guess probably covered DVD.
Speaker 3: And if you if you remember the last writers strike
Speaker 3: in two thousand and seven and eight, the entire point
Speaker 3: of that strike was just to get jurisdiction over the internet,
Speaker 3: just to say those jobs have to be union. And
Speaker 3: thankfully the writers at that time went on strike and
Speaker 3: won that for everybody. Now that you know streaming has
Speaker 3: taken over, we are going back to get the money
Speaker 3: right because our contracts just the formulas are worse for
Speaker 3: they're very very poor for streaming, whereas they're quite good
Speaker 3: and mature for broadcasting cable. And so we're trying to
Speaker 3: get that parody.
Speaker 2: Well, what's crazy is that they'll, you know, like always,
Speaker 2: they'll scream, we don't have the money, though, where's the money?
Speaker 2: What fucking money are you talking about? I'm not making
Speaker 2: any money.
Speaker 3: I'm not.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I got paid my salary and then
Speaker 2: got that bonus that you know, extra forty three but
Speaker 2: you know, the million, but you know that's not where
Speaker 2: what are you talking about? That we have money to
Speaker 2: pay all of you actors?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what do you say to that, Adam, Because
Speaker 1: obviously the studios, the streamers, line and Bob Iger came
Speaker 1: out and said some things that were quite unpopular, but
Speaker 1: basically saying, the industry is at a tough spot. It's
Speaker 1: recovering from COVID. This is the worst time for this.
Speaker 1: We don't have money. This is going to hurt the
Speaker 1: industry more at a time when it's just trying to recover.
Speaker 1: I'm paraphrasing. He was. You know, it was round widely received,
Speaker 1: very poorly, as he felt like he was the living
Speaker 1: incarnation of mister Burns from The Simpsons, especially since he's
Speaker 1: collecting some obscene amount of salary every year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he had just renegotiated in a salary for himself
Speaker 3: an extra fifty million a year.
Speaker 1: An extra fifty million a Year's.
Speaker 3: That's my understanding.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what do they say in response other than
Speaker 1: we can't afford this.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's that is all that they say, you know.
Speaker 3: And here's the thing though, that's not a line that
Speaker 3: we can listen to, because you know, we never ask
Speaker 3: them and they say, oh, yeah, now's a great time.
Speaker 3: Business is booming. Pull up a chair, you know, we're
Speaker 3: ready to negotiate, right, They always oh, it is such
Speaker 3: a bad time. Oh we're all tightening our belts. Oh,
Speaker 3: we can't afford it. Right, But if you look at
Speaker 3: the actual numbers and the writers build we have a
Speaker 3: research department that spends all day every day analyzing how
Speaker 3: much money the companies are making. They're all making more
Speaker 3: profit than ever, they're all making more revenue than ever.
Speaker 3: And the show budgets have gone up. Show budgets have
Speaker 3: gone up by fifty percent over the last ten years.
Speaker 3: Writer pay has gone down by twenty three percent. And
Speaker 3: I don't have the figures on hand for actors, but
Speaker 3: if listening to you know, working actors such as yourselves
Speaker 3: and my friends who do that, and just my own
Speaker 3: experiences as an actor. It's it's clearly harder to make
Speaker 3: a living here than it was, you know, just five
Speaker 3: or ten years ago. So you know, now what has
Speaker 3: happened is that they had a boom because of the pandemic.
Speaker 3: Everyone signed up for streaming services, and the boom is
Speaker 3: like fading a little bit, right, But that was That
Speaker 3: doesn't mean they're unprofitable. And also they all decided to
Speaker 3: buy each other. So Warner Brothers Discovery, you know, took
Speaker 3: on immense amounts of debts that David Zoslov could you know,
Speaker 3: his small company, Discovery, he could buy this giant company,
Speaker 3: Warner Brothers. It was a terrible deal. He's you know,
Speaker 3: they're losing money on the deal because they're having to
Speaker 3: finance all this debt. But that's not our fault. It
Speaker 3: doesn't you know, that doesn't mean that we should pay
Speaker 3: Like if you work at a grocery store, you know,
Speaker 3: the grocery store can't say, hey, guess what, people aren't
Speaker 3: buying as many big beans, we're gonna pay you less,
Speaker 3: you know, like it's I'm sorry, you know, they're still
Speaker 3: making aid amounts of money on our work. And by
Speaker 3: the way, they are rocketing towards profitability. All these companies.
Speaker 3: They're adding ads, they're adding free tiers. I mean, you
Speaker 3: know all if you listen to their earnings calls right
Speaker 3: where they talk to the stock market, they say, Wow,
Speaker 3: everything's going so great. We're growing, growing, growing, We've got
Speaker 3: all these new movies coming out. Oh my god, most
Speaker 3: profitable ever. Blah blah blah blah blah. Then they sit
Speaker 3: down with us and they plead poverty. It's ridiculous, you know,
Speaker 3: it's just propaganda.
Speaker 2: I mean it's always been that though, right, Like, it's
Speaker 2: always been what it is though. You know, it's hardest.
Speaker 2: The hardest thing to do in this town is get
Speaker 2: a movie made. That's the hardest thing to do. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we'll make it.
Speaker 1: What will happen? So it's been what has it been
Speaker 1: with the writers? It's been thirteen weeks? Is that correct?
Speaker 3: Uh, let's see something. Yeah, we're in the eighties of
Speaker 3: days in terms.
Speaker 1: Of well, is that correct? You put that in my notest? Okay,
Speaker 1: so I think ye, So that's Joelle says, that's I
Speaker 1: can't do math. But Joelle says, that's thirteen weeks. It
Speaker 1: goes without saying it helps that one hundred and sixty
Speaker 1: thousand people just additionally went on strike when the actors
Speaker 1: joined them. You know, the question on everyone's mind is
Speaker 1: how long could this possibly play out? These studios are
Speaker 1: definitely putting out there that they're in no rush to
Speaker 1: to settle this, that they're going to try and wait
Speaker 1: it out.
Speaker 2: They know some of them are partying in the Hamptons
Speaker 2: as we speak.
Speaker 1: I just want to say that, you know the other
Speaker 1: thing I want to just touch on. I know I'm
Speaker 1: asking you two questions at once, but I'm excited to
Speaker 1: have you. I have so many questions. But the you know,
Speaker 1: it goes without saying. This affects so many people outside
Speaker 1: of these guilts because the industry is on pause. So
Speaker 1: whether you're a restaurant in the neighborhood, or you're a
Speaker 1: dry cleaner that service the industry, or you're any of
Speaker 1: the crew positions that aren't in these guilds that are
Speaker 1: that are that are forced to stop your work. People
Speaker 1: are really going to start or already are starting to struggle,
Speaker 1: And the question on every one's minds is how long
Speaker 1: can this go? How long can these studios sort of
Speaker 1: fold their arms and make people wait to come to
Speaker 1: the table with a real offer.
Speaker 3: First of all, you know, there's no way for me
Speaker 3: to predict how long it's going to go. And anyone
Speaker 3: who tells you they have a prediction is making shit
Speaker 3: up and they're they're bullshitting you, and you should ignore them.
Speaker 3: But but how do we think about how long it's
Speaker 3: going to go? Look, the only way that a labor
Speaker 3: union ever loses is if their own members say, you
Speaker 3: know what, this has gone on too long. We want
Speaker 3: to go back to work and take a bad deal,
Speaker 3: you know, like we just you know what, let's just
Speaker 3: let's just go back to work. Everything was fine, no worries, right,
Speaker 3: just so we'll take an okay deal. I don't think
Speaker 3: that's gonna happen this year.
Speaker 2: Because I really hope that doesn't happen, because if that doesn't,
Speaker 2: I don't think what the fuck were we doing?
Speaker 3: I don't think and I don't think it will donald
Speaker 3: because I think actors and writers know that if we
Speaker 3: don't have this fight right now, we're not going to
Speaker 3: have jobs to go back to five years from now.
Speaker 3: That you know it's gonna our careers will be turned
Speaker 3: into gigwork. Uh, you know, the companies will have eradicated
Speaker 3: the writing room. They'll have like you know, they'll be
Speaker 3: stealing everybody's likenesses with AI And even if you get
Speaker 3: a job, it won't pay enough to be able to
Speaker 3: make a living. And we're gonna be doing this nights
Speaker 3: and weekends in between shifts at Gelson's or you know,
Speaker 3: at our H and R Block job. Right, that'll be
Speaker 3: the new reality. That's what Bill, That's what it is
Speaker 3: in a lot of countries like Korea, that's what the
Speaker 3: entertainment industry is.
Speaker 1: Sorry, go ahead, And that's what Bill Lawrence had said.
Speaker 1: Another thing he thought said that I thought was really insightful.
Speaker 1: He said, you know, this will become a career that
Speaker 1: is only accessible to people who are wealthy, people who
Speaker 1: have a spouse who can support them, people who have
Speaker 1: a family that can support them. And obviously that's gonna
Speaker 1: skew away from minorities. It's gonna skew away from all
Speaker 1: sorts of folks who are less likely statistically to have
Speaker 1: some sort of of generational wealth that enables them to
Speaker 1: pursue the art form. Uh, whether with making under twenty
Speaker 1: six thousand dollars a year or it'll be like.
Speaker 2: A freaking high school elective all of a sudden, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: the fuck, you know what I mean, Like it's not
Speaker 2: even part of.
Speaker 3: The curriculum anymore.
Speaker 2: It's just a freaking you gotta go freaking sign up
Speaker 2: for that shit, and if you're lucky, you get picked,
Speaker 2: you know, yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean. And there's a really good example of that,
Speaker 3: by the way, it's called reality shows. Right. People who
Speaker 3: work on reality shows, they pay you nothing to do it.
Speaker 3: They do it because they're already rich. And then how
Speaker 3: do they make money. They make money off of doing
Speaker 3: all the ancillary stuff like selling, you know, brand putting
Speaker 3: their name on stuff and branding things, et cetera. Right, Right,
Speaker 3: And I think that we as a culture and we
Speaker 3: as an industry don't want that to happen to our industry.
Speaker 3: I don't think we're gonna let it happen. So I think, uh,
Speaker 3: I think that the workers are incredibly united and we're
Speaker 3: not gonna leave the picket line. So how does that
Speaker 3: mean things are going to end? Well, it's gonna end
Speaker 3: when the companies come back to the table and they
Speaker 3: make deals with the unions that that the unions can accept.
Speaker 3: So how long is that gonna happen. It is gonna
Speaker 3: take for that to happen. I think it's I think
Speaker 3: we're going to start to see it over the next
Speaker 3: couple weeks and months. Because when the Writer's Guild went
Speaker 3: on strike, the Writer's gold Is historically been the only
Speaker 3: militant union, the only union that went on strike, So
Speaker 3: they spend all year planning for a Writer's Guild strike
Speaker 3: in case there is one, we'll just hold them off
Speaker 3: for three months, right, and they plan to hold us off.
Speaker 3: Nobody though expected sag After to go on strike because
Speaker 3: it hasn't happened since the eighties, and the two unions
Speaker 3: haven't been on strike together since the sixties, so they
Speaker 3: had no plan. So literally after the strike was called,
Speaker 3: you know, we're about a week and a half after
Speaker 3: the strike was called. Now, the CEO spent the first
Speaker 3: week just shitting themselves, just going, hold on a second,
Speaker 3: how much money are we losing? What just shut down?
Speaker 3: What can I do? What thing that I was counting
Speaker 3: on isn't happening now? Fuck? What do I do? My
Speaker 3: whole plan fell apart. Then it's gonna take them a
Speaker 3: week to call each other on the phone, be like Hey, Bob,
Speaker 3: did you fucking I heard what you said on CNBC.
Speaker 3: Don't worry about it. I thought you were right. Anyway,
Speaker 3: we got to go talk to these actors and write,
Speaker 3: Oh you want to go talk to them? All right,
Speaker 3: all right, let's make a call, right And that's just
Speaker 3: gonna take time. It's just logistics, right, uh, And then
Speaker 3: they have to come back to the table if to negotiate.
Speaker 1: I saw that they're already mumbling about moving some of
Speaker 1: these giant ten poles, Like you know, there's some big.
Speaker 3: There's a bunch of things have changed.
Speaker 2: My show is listen, man, my show isn't coming on,
Speaker 2: isn't on the fall lineup anymore because of what's going
Speaker 2: on right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, like, well, they wouldn't want to launch
Speaker 1: your show without you promoting it. I mean, you understand why.
Speaker 3: That I completely understand.
Speaker 1: And they all these I just went to the movies
Speaker 1: and saw all these trailers for big ass movies and
Speaker 1: they're all supposed to be rolling out the rest of
Speaker 1: this year, and they're not gonna want those big ass
Speaker 1: movies coming out without the stars on the red carpet
Speaker 1: and talk shows.
Speaker 3: And then look past that, look at the pipeline, right.
Speaker 3: The main thing we're affecting is the future pipeline. So
Speaker 3: if you you're Ted Sarandos, right, you don't get any
Speaker 3: more Stranger Things until this, until the strike is settled.
Speaker 3: Like they don't have any in the can. There's no
Speaker 3: new season to release. Stranger Things is the super Bowl
Speaker 3: in Netflix, that's when they get all their subscribers every year, right,
Speaker 3: And so when the writer's strike was happening, he was like,
Speaker 3: all right, I just wait a couple months. I'll get
Speaker 3: my new Stranger Things around August. That's when they'll start
Speaker 3: working on it. Now that the actors are on strike
Speaker 3: as well. That he has no idea when he's going
Speaker 3: to get it, right, He it's a question mark on
Speaker 3: his schedule and he cannot last that long without filling
Speaker 3: in that question mark because he knows he needs that
Speaker 3: because he's got those quarterly earnings calls coming up in
Speaker 3: a couple months.
Speaker 1: And of all those streamers have their Stranger.
Speaker 3: Things exactly right. I mean Apple has Severance that was
Speaker 3: shut down, you know, every one of them has that right, uh.
Speaker 3: And not to mention movies. And by the way, half
Speaker 3: of these companies still have fall broadcast schedules, as you said,
Speaker 3: Donald right, like you know him not anymore exactly. They're
Speaker 3: trying they're trying to replace it with reality shows. I mean,
Speaker 3: some people will watch those. Some of those reality shows
Speaker 3: are covered by a sag after I think, and therefore
Speaker 3: still might have to go off the air. Like you know,
Speaker 3: they're scrambling and they have you know, literally they're talking
Speaker 3: to like Tide Detergents and Tiede is like, we're pulling
Speaker 3: our commercial because you guys don't have new Abbt Elementary.
Speaker 3: They're running reruns of Abbot Elementary in primetime instead of
Speaker 3: new episodes, the biggest show, you know, one of the
Speaker 3: biggest shows on broadcast.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So so these companies, the hurt is starting for them immediately, right,
Speaker 3: But for us on the picket line, the hurt is real.
Speaker 3: But it's hurt we've already been experiencing because go talk
Speaker 3: to any of those actors. They said, i'ven't been able
Speaker 3: to make a living for three years because you know,
Speaker 3: I got a job, it didn't pay. I don't get
Speaker 3: residuals anymore. So they're not thinking, oh god, I'm missing
Speaker 3: out by so much, but being on strike, we're all
Speaker 3: out there thinking if we don't do this right now,
Speaker 3: then we're never going to have careers again. And so
Speaker 3: we're gonna be out there as long as it takes,
Speaker 3: and it's just gonna take. How long How long does
Speaker 3: it take for them to realize that for the CEOs
Speaker 3: to realize that we support you guys obviously because we
Speaker 3: are actors. I'm not yeah, show where.
Speaker 1: We supposed to kick at him off? Yeah, we have
Speaker 1: more I'm not kicking him off.
Speaker 3: We're gonna dude, I'm not kicking him off.
Speaker 1: Well, you said you sounded like you were summing up,
Speaker 1: and I was like, don't fucking sum up.
Speaker 2: I'm not fucking summing up. He just made a big
Speaker 2: He just made a big fucking statement.
Speaker 1: Okay, just don't sum up because we have more questions.
Speaker 2: I'm not summing fucking We're just gonna go to break.
Speaker 1: We need to cool off. We're gonna go break. And
Speaker 1: when we come back from break, not only is Donald
Speaker 1: not gonna sum up, but we are going to ask
Speaker 1: Adam about the age.
Speaker 3: You support the writers.
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you for everyone's ears.
Speaker 2: I'm an actor too, by the way, but well, I
Speaker 2: mean I can't look at him look at his face.
Speaker 1: Donald, he's an actor.
Speaker 3: I already told you you don't put you.
Speaker 1: Don't put that face behind a commodore, you know, typewriter.
Speaker 1: You gotta see that face. We'll be right back, and
Speaker 1: we don't ask Adam about AI. Donald'll be right back.
Speaker 1: What you're trying to get into one day or show?
Speaker 1: What's your trying to news?
Speaker 3: So we want to thank Adam for being on the show.
Speaker 1: Mother, I will fucking kill you. All right, we're back, Adam.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about the AI component of
Speaker 1: all this, because we spent the first part talking about residuals.
Speaker 1: I think our audience probably grasps what the fight is
Speaker 1: there for the labor unions. Now, the second part of
Speaker 1: this is this explosion of this AI universe. I went
Speaker 1: to the Ted Talks this year, and as you can imagine,
Speaker 1: ninety five percent of what was talked about was AI
Speaker 1: in every aspect of human life. And I saw many
Speaker 1: examples of how it's going to affect the entertainment industry.
Speaker 1: This weekend, Bill Lawrence's teenage son played me an AI
Speaker 1: song that was He told me that this musician producer
Speaker 1: had put in three huge artists whose voices can be
Speaker 1: completely perfectly simulated. He'd put in all this data of
Speaker 1: ten different songs he liked, and he sung the parts himself,
Speaker 1: but then the AI took over with the famous voices
Speaker 1: and he played me this song. It was a really
Speaker 1: really hooky pop song sung by three stars I wasn't
Speaker 1: familiar with, but I'm sure young people are. And it
Speaker 1: was spooky because it was good. And so obviously that's
Speaker 1: going to affect our entire industry, and that is something
Speaker 1: that the guilds are trying to get a hold on
Speaker 1: before it gets out of control. So can you talk
Speaker 1: can you speak to that a little bit?
Speaker 3: Sure? So, look, I want to be clear about one thing.
Speaker 3: I'm a bit of a contrarian on AI, and so
Speaker 3: the first point I want to make is that AI
Speaker 3: is a marketing term that these companies made up to
Speaker 3: you know, bundle together a bunch of like largely unrelated
Speaker 3: technologies and to make them seem like science fiction, make
Speaker 3: them seem really powerful and scary. Right, They're actually quite
Speaker 3: limited in what they can do. The problem is the
Speaker 3: companies that employ us intend to use this limited technology
Speaker 3: in order to put actors out of work, put writers
Speaker 3: out of work, and you know, we can't let them
Speaker 3: do that. So it's less about the technology and more
Speaker 3: what they're trying to do. So you know, for actors,
Speaker 3: there's a real threat here of their likenesses being reproduced
Speaker 3: without their consent. Now, by the way, they had the
Speaker 3: power to do this like two or three years ago,
Speaker 3: if you saw the Star Wars previous Star Wars movies,
Speaker 3: they're already doing this right with with actors. The buzzword
Speaker 3: AI hadn't come up yet. AI is just the crypto
Speaker 3: blockchain metaverse of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2: You go see them splash, you could see that shit.
Speaker 2: It's too freaking right exactly.
Speaker 3: It's just a new form of VFX right of CGI.
Speaker 3: We've had that for a long time, but it is
Speaker 3: something that has gotten good enough that they can really
Speaker 3: use it to harm actors. So a real example of
Speaker 3: this that has actually happened is that sag after voice
Speaker 3: actors who do audiobook narration. Apple took voice prints of
Speaker 3: their voices without their consent, without paying them and had
Speaker 3: them narrating audiobooks that they had never read like that
Speaker 3: without paying them. And when they discovered this, they were horrified,
Speaker 3: And that was really the canary in the coal mine
Speaker 3: for sag After it. Right, And by the way, that's
Speaker 3: not like a terrible use of the technology if the
Speaker 3: person is paid, because hey, maybe there's an audiobook that
Speaker 3: not that many people want to listen to, but you can,
Speaker 3: you know, if you can do.
Speaker 2: It automatically or shit, maybe you don't want to do
Speaker 2: all that work, and they're freaking gonna pay you that
Speaker 2: one time because you got the.
Speaker 3: Fixed and it'll be a worse it'll be a worse
Speaker 3: audiobook because it won't have Donald's performance giving his you know,
Speaker 3: wonderful line reading to every single line. But hey, if
Speaker 3: I just want to you know ingest an audiobook quickly
Speaker 3: that that wasn't you know, popular enough to be done professionally,
Speaker 3: then maybe that's not bad, right, But the art has
Speaker 3: to be done with the compensation and consent of the artist, agree.
Speaker 3: And uh so that's what sag After is fighting for.
Speaker 3: Uh you know, one of the one of the company
Speaker 3: proposals that they literally they proposed in the room was
Speaker 3: that background actors, the folks who are in the background
Speaker 3: of scene, which, by the way, you guys work with
Speaker 3: background actors, they're professionals, right, These are like I I.
Speaker 2: These are the real These are the real people who
Speaker 2: are trying to make a living as actors in Hollywood.
Speaker 2: Everyone else, everyone else is everyone else is playing the gamble,
Speaker 2: is gambling. Background actors are doing a nine to five
Speaker 2: for real, for real. They're going to work every day
Speaker 2: trying to get that money because that's what's paying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and not nine to five, but yes, but you know,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, yeah, that's more like nine to twelve.
Speaker 3: But yeah, right, well it depends, you know. And they
Speaker 3: bring their own wardrobe, you know. And by the way,
Speaker 3: they're professionals. They know how to behave on a set,
Speaker 3: they know how to take instruction from the ad, they
Speaker 3: know how to hit their marks, you know, like they
Speaker 3: are professional actors. So the companies proposed that these actors
Speaker 3: would be paid a day or half a day's wages,
Speaker 3: have their likenesses scanned into a computer, and then the
Speaker 3: company would own their likeness and be able to reproduce
Speaker 3: it in perpetuity without paying them again, long after they're dead.
Speaker 3: And that is so first of all offensive with the
Speaker 3: professionalism those actors. It would also end the job of
Speaker 3: background acting, and it would create worse content because do
Speaker 3: you really want to see CGI people walking around in
Speaker 3: the back of every scene because the company felt like
Speaker 3: save in a couple hundred bucks a person.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's interesting, is I noticed this. I watched
Speaker 1: remember watching a House of Dragons behind the scenes thing.
Speaker 1: I believe it was for the There was a big
Speaker 1: joust in the last season and it was incredibly done,
Speaker 1: and I was curious as of filmmaker how it was achieved.
Speaker 1: And one of the things I noticed is that they
Speaker 1: were showing how they built this massive crowd, and they
Speaker 1: were showing how they would scan the background people sometimes
Speaker 1: in groups of three cheering, and then they'd scan them
Speaker 1: in groups of four booing. And then they showed how
Speaker 1: they multiply multiplied, multiply multiply modes to create a realistic
Speaker 1: giant crowd, which I thought was interesting, but I never
Speaker 1: thought that I never looked at it from the point
Speaker 1: of view, is that House of Dragons show could then
Speaker 1: keep all of these people in their database and next
Speaker 1: time they needed a crowd, just reuse all of those
Speaker 1: faces and likenesses without without paying them.
Speaker 3: Next year they're on uh, next year they're on the
Speaker 3: Sex in the City reboot, right, and they were like,
Speaker 3: hold on a second, well only got paid for house dragons.
Speaker 1: They'd be in house of dragon's clothing. But that would
Speaker 1: be amazing.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I mean we joke around, but that's
Speaker 2: some fucked up shit. Man, that's livelihoods right there. And
Speaker 2: I know yeah, and I have a lot of friends
Speaker 2: that do background. I've started in background. I think most
Speaker 2: actors started in background. And that shit paid the bills. Man,
Speaker 2: that shit, really, you know what I mean? That was
Speaker 2: how that was? That was you want to talk about residuals,
Speaker 2: you know what really paid the bills?
Speaker 3: First?
Speaker 2: Background work. That's how that's how I got my SAG card.
Speaker 2: That's how I got so many things, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. And now you're going to take the ability
Speaker 2: to freaking work away from so many people who don't
Speaker 2: get the opportunity to make it to the level of
Speaker 2: fucking Will Smith, who don't make it to the level
Speaker 2: of Tom Crue but still have a dream of being
Speaker 2: an actor.
Speaker 3: And you want to take that away.
Speaker 1: Now to whatever happened to Will Smith, something changed in
Speaker 1: his career. Sorry, I don't know too soon.
Speaker 3: Well, now, well, now here's how this applies to you guys.
Speaker 3: By the way, is that for for working actors such
Speaker 3: as yourselves. Well, what if they use that same technology,
Speaker 3: and you know, long after you've shot your scene, they say, actually,
Speaker 3: I don't like how Donald read that line. Let's have
Speaker 3: him say something else, you know, Let's have him. Let's
Speaker 3: have him. Uh, that's bullshit, right.
Speaker 1: To But I don't know if you remember that there
Speaker 1: was a movie about Adam. I don't even know this
Speaker 1: if you know this story or any of you guys,
Speaker 1: but there was a movie about two women stuck on
Speaker 1: the top of a of a wind turbine or something.
Speaker 3: Oh yes, I saw the trailer for this. I forget
Speaker 3: the name of it, but yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay, so that's the premise, right, it's genius. It's just
Speaker 1: it's a it's a thriller. But the premise is just.
Speaker 3: That these two get up on the wind turbine.
Speaker 1: I didn't watch the movie.
Speaker 3: But they like climbed the ladder and then a ladder
Speaker 3: fell off and then they're like, oh shit, how do
Speaker 3: we get down?
Speaker 1: Well, what's the name of that movie? I'm looking at it.
Speaker 2: It's called It's I think the name of the movie
Speaker 2: is It's all our fault, all.
Speaker 1: Right, So anyway, and it's all our fault. They apparently
Speaker 1: the two gals they were doing lots of improv because
Speaker 1: they were playing terrified and as you would you you'd be,
Speaker 1: You're not going to just stick to the script, you'd be.
Speaker 1: And apparently they were cursing left and right as they
Speaker 1: as they riffed, and and when they when the people
Speaker 1: cut this movie together, it was actually testing really well,
Speaker 1: and they were very pleased with their product, and they
Speaker 1: thought it was gonna do. What the problem was, they
Speaker 1: did not want an r movie, and these two women
Speaker 1: were cursing left and right, and so they for the
Speaker 1: first time, I believe they were the first company to
Speaker 1: do this. They hired a company that could digitally change
Speaker 1: all of the lips. It's called Fall Thank you Joel,
Speaker 1: and they every time they cursed, they changed their lips
Speaker 1: to a non curse yep. And this you can you
Speaker 1: can YouTube this because I saw a video on it,
Speaker 1: and the technology was so brilliant and perfect that they
Speaker 1: went on to say that this will be what they'll
Speaker 1: be using in the future instead of subtitles, because they'll
Speaker 1: be able to change every actor's lips and have them
Speaker 1: speak the native tongue of whatever country the movie is playing.
Speaker 1: In and Okay, so that's just that's just, you know,
Speaker 1: the first example incarnation of this. But what Adam's saying
Speaker 1: is that I, as a filmmaker, can go I don't
Speaker 1: love Donald's reading of that. Can you AI help me
Speaker 1: make him do it angrier and a bit and change
Speaker 1: it so his line is like, not today, motherfucker? Yeah?
Speaker 3: And then and then Donald, you're watching that going I
Speaker 3: would never swear like that, And now my daughters are
Speaker 3: going to see this and aren't I And don't I
Speaker 3: look awful?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Or whatever it is.
Speaker 2: I don't like the idea of putting stuff into my
Speaker 2: mouth that I didn't agree to that.
Speaker 1: I know that's the first time you've ever said that, Donald, I.
Speaker 3: Well, because that I've read every time. I've agreed every time,
Speaker 3: don't I.
Speaker 1: Know, in front of Adam, you don't want to act
Speaker 1: like you don't like to put things in your mouth.
Speaker 1: But I'm sorry, Joelle as best behavior in front of you,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. You know.
Speaker 3: The reason I think you feel that way is it's
Speaker 3: not about compensation. It's about your dignity and your professionalism
Speaker 3: in your work, and of course.
Speaker 1: What you do if the performance, if they change your
Speaker 1: performance to something. Even when you see when as an actor,
Speaker 1: when you see some of the way something's cut, you go,
Speaker 1: oh my god, they cut out the pause without the pause.
Speaker 1: I suck that that performance is so bad without the
Speaker 1: actor taking in that pause and receiving that information, that's
Speaker 1: just that's just editing. Now, imagine you see a performance
Speaker 1: you're like, I never fucking said that. That's horrible. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's so cringe.
Speaker 3: And you know that that removes you as an artist, right,
Speaker 3: That removes your artists free. It makes you a puppet
Speaker 3: for them. And I think that's a really fundamental, you know,
Speaker 3: abridgment of our of our dignity as performers. You know that,
Speaker 3: Like you hired me because I fucking know what I'm
Speaker 3: doing and this is how I'm good. You've you've both
Speaker 3: had those moments on that set where you're like, you
Speaker 3: know what I'm not doing that. You know, the director
Speaker 3: says would you do this, and you're like, actually, I'm
Speaker 3: not going to do it, yeah, because I don't. I
Speaker 3: don't want to be on camera doing this. I'm not
Speaker 3: going to give you the take use it, Yep, I'm
Speaker 3: not going to give it to you. I'm using my
Speaker 3: judgment as a human on your set who knows best
Speaker 3: to say as an artist, I'm not doing this, and
Speaker 3: they want to take away that ability from us, and
Speaker 3: and that's uh, that's repugnant. Now, as writers, there's a
Speaker 3: whole other set of issues where you know, the people
Speaker 3: are worried about them using chat GPT to output scripts.
Speaker 3: And the point that I like to draw here is
Speaker 3: that like chat GPT or technologies like it cannot do
Speaker 3: the work of a writer, because being a writer is
Speaker 3: a lot more than outputting a script. Being a writer
Speaker 3: is uh talking to the network and you know, taking
Speaker 3: their notes, is talking to the director. So if it's
Speaker 3: his vision, it's talking to the actors to make sure
Speaker 3: that they like the lines and working on it with them.
Speaker 3: It's going to set to say, oh, hold on a second,
Speaker 3: the way Donald said that line, it actually doesn't doesn't
Speaker 3: mean what we thought it meant when we wrote it.
Speaker 3: If he uses that inflection, but we like the inflection,
Speaker 3: let's adjust the line a little bit or whatever it is, right,
Speaker 3: then it means going to the edit and saying, hold
Speaker 3: on a second, this it's for five minutes too long.
Speaker 3: What scene can we cut uh? You know, without uh,
Speaker 3: without while having it still makes sense. Oh, let's write
Speaker 3: a little line of ADR for Donald to say, you'll
Speaker 3: come in and he'll record that, and that'll make everything
Speaker 3: make sense. That's the work of a writer, right. What
Speaker 3: we're worried about is the company saying, well, hold on
Speaker 3: a second, chat GPT wrote a script, would you just, Adam,
Speaker 3: punch it up, talk to the director, talk to the actor,
Speaker 3: go to set, go to post, and do all that work.
Speaker 3: Oh you're not the writer, though, You're just a producer
Speaker 3: who's being paid less than you ever were. And I'm
Speaker 3: looking at that going, no, I'm I'm the writer, right.
Speaker 3: You just output me some garbage and I made it good.
Speaker 3: But you're but you're using this shitty technology as an
Speaker 3: excuse to undermine my work. And that's what we're not
Speaker 3: going to allow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just because you're a ghostwriter don't mean you didn't
Speaker 2: write that shit. That's probely Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: Let's take a break.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after these fine words you now, Adam.
Speaker 1: The most urgent concern to my limited brain is that
Speaker 1: writers will be forced to begin using a smaller room
Speaker 1: of people and saying have chat GBT bang out an
Speaker 1: outline because whether it's bad or not. I mean, we
Speaker 1: fucked with it on this podcast just as to be funny,
Speaker 1: saying having it write scrub scenes. Now they're not good,
Speaker 1: but it's year one of this. And also they do
Speaker 1: at least follow what we told them. They do bang
Speaker 1: out a very bad version of a scene with the instructions.
Speaker 1: So to me, the beginning of the concern, especially as
Speaker 1: this thing is growing and growing and growing in who
Speaker 1: knows what it will be in two three years, that
Speaker 1: it will be able to spit out a bad but
Speaker 1: confident version of the scene you told it to write
Speaker 1: that they can then be punched up so the mandate
Speaker 1: will be Adam, you don't need a writer's room of
Speaker 1: twelve people, need a writer's room of three people.
Speaker 2: I feel like before we before there's a sidebar to
Speaker 2: this too. I think there's it's very dangerous because kids
Speaker 2: are kids are using this ship also for their lessons
Speaker 2: in school.
Speaker 3: For like, it's a cheat, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's a it's it's a big time cheat.
Speaker 2: And within cheating comes I mean, will become a soulless,
Speaker 2: fucking population.
Speaker 1: If we can that's a big sidebar. Let him answer
Speaker 1: my question first, before we get to Soula's population.
Speaker 3: I love this double I have a minor sidebar.
Speaker 1: Do you think we're going to become a soulless population? Uh?
Speaker 3: Donald the answers yes. But to zax question, so, look,
Speaker 3: my my opinion is that, well, first of all, they're
Speaker 3: already doing that. They're already shrinking the writer's room. In fact,
Speaker 3: one of the main Writers Guild's proposals is just to
Speaker 3: preserve the writer's room, says say, there must be one,
Speaker 3: because the companies have gone from you know, having a
Speaker 3: writer's room of you know, eight to twelve people, as
Speaker 3: you say, to saying, well now do it with three,
Speaker 3: Now do it with two now. And what they're literally
Speaker 3: now paying showrunners to do, they're offering them bonuses to
Speaker 3: not have a writer's room at all and just write
Speaker 3: the whole season themselves. Maybe they farm out one or
Speaker 3: two scripts freelance, which you for which you're paid a
Speaker 3: small percentage of what you're made for being on staff.
Speaker 3: And if we allow that to happen in a couple
Speaker 3: of years, that's gonna be all TV writing. If you
Speaker 3: sell a show, they're gonna be like, all right, Zach, right,
Speaker 3: the whole thing yourself. You have fifteen grand you can
Speaker 3: use to you know, farm out freelance scripts if you want.
Speaker 3: That's already their plan, and it's because our contract allows
Speaker 3: that to happen. And it's just the norms of how
Speaker 3: TV has been produced for the past fifty years that
Speaker 3: have protected us. But the companies have shown they want
Speaker 3: to break those norms, and so now we need to
Speaker 3: get the existence of the writer's room put into our contract.
Speaker 3: But the issue that you raised though, of chat GPT
Speaker 3: being used as an excuse to that even further, I
Speaker 3: think is a real one. I just want to really
Speaker 3: highlight I think it's a lie because I don't think
Speaker 3: that it is possible for one of these large language
Speaker 3: models to output anything that helps, like save any labor
Speaker 3: as a writer, you know, because the I think any
Speaker 3: writer knows the first draft is always fucking garbage. That's
Speaker 3: not the hard part. The hard part is every other
Speaker 3: piece of it. If I'm taking a if it's my
Speaker 3: choice as a writer to start with some chat GPT
Speaker 3: output and punch it up myself, sure I can take
Speaker 3: that choice. I don't think I'm saving myself any fucking
Speaker 3: time by doing that, because the hard part is the
Speaker 3: originality that I add, you know, Like, look, I'll just
Speaker 3: talk about it as a comedy writer. Okay, As a
Speaker 3: comedy writer, you have to write so many jokes, right,
Speaker 3: joke after joke after joke, and every joke you write
Speaker 3: has to be on some level a new joke. If
Speaker 3: you're telling a joke people have heard before, they don't laugh, right,
Speaker 3: People want a new joke every time. How do you
Speaker 3: write a new joke. You think about the specifics of
Speaker 3: the situation. You think about who your audience is. You think,
Speaker 3: you figure out here's what they think of the situation,
Speaker 3: Here's what will strike them as fun. Okay, if I'm
Speaker 3: writing late Night, Ted Cruz did something in the news, Okay,
Speaker 3: what did he do? What does the audience think of
Speaker 3: Ted Cruz? What does this remind them of in their
Speaker 3: own lives? That's going to be a surprising thing. I
Speaker 3: can compare it to right the way Trevor Noah's jokes
Speaker 3: would always be like this is like when your mom
Speaker 3: would be blah blah blah blah blah, and you'd, like,
Speaker 3: you know, do some dating reference or something like that. Right,
Speaker 3: that is a magic trick every time. It is one
Speaker 3: of the most complex cultural things to have to do
Speaker 3: is to figure out how to write a new joke
Speaker 3: that'll make people laugh. And Chad GPT will never be
Speaker 3: able to do it. So it'll always be an immense
Speaker 3: amount of work on a human writer to write a
Speaker 3: joke that is going to bring delight to people in
Speaker 3: the way that we do.
Speaker 1: I hear you, man, I just hope that you know.
Speaker 1: I just think of year one of the cell phone
Speaker 1: compared to what we now have in our pockets, and
Speaker 1: I think of what Chad GBT could become in five
Speaker 1: ten years.
Speaker 2: Think of what AI can become in five ten, fifteen
Speaker 2: years if weaponize. I mean, this is like it's already
Speaker 2: being weaponized against actors and writers.
Speaker 1: And Daniel's laughing because you just steered it to military reach.
Speaker 3: It absolutely is. But here's just what I'd like. Here's
Speaker 3: the point I'd like to make, is that the iPhone
Speaker 3: was built on pre existing technology. Right. It was not
Speaker 3: like some new It wasn't like they invented the wheel
Speaker 3: or they invented cold fusion or something. Right. It was
Speaker 3: a business decision to put these things together this way.
Speaker 3: And so what we should be afraid of is not
Speaker 3: artificial intelligence technology run amuck. It's the business practices of
Speaker 3: these companies using the technology to hurt us and hurt
Speaker 3: other people. It's not if you accept too much this
Speaker 3: technological argument, you can be tricked into thinking, oh, we
Speaker 3: should just accept whatever they say because the technology is
Speaker 3: coming now. People are choosing to make these decisions, and
Speaker 3: we can force them to choose otherwise by using our
Speaker 3: collective power.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, that's the power of the union. That's the
Speaker 1: whole point of being in this union that we pay
Speaker 1: lots of money and doing.
Speaker 2: Sounds like you're trying to wrap up. Zech I'm just
Speaker 2: gonna put it out there. Sounds I could try to
Speaker 2: wrap up.
Speaker 1: Well, we do have to let Adam go.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be honest with you.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not wrapping up. I'm segueing into the point
Speaker 1: where my tone suggests that we don't want to take
Speaker 1: up too much of Adam's time.
Speaker 3: I mean, that sounds a bit like a wrap up,
Speaker 3: but no, my tone.
Speaker 1: My tone is we can continue talking, but Adam probably
Speaker 1: has lots of important things to do. That's my tone. Wait,
Speaker 1: I want to ask Joel. Joel gave us some good questions,
Speaker 1: and I want to make sure, I hit some of them,
Speaker 1: Please do what's surprising? What has surprised you most during
Speaker 1: this experience. You've been on strike now for thirteen weeks.
Speaker 1: What is there things that have happened that have made
Speaker 1: you go I was not expecting that.
Speaker 3: I mean, sag after joining the strike was not something
Speaker 3: that in my wildest dreams I would have I would
Speaker 3: have thought was happening as a sag after. Remember, if
Speaker 3: you had asked me, you know, six months ago, I'd say,
Speaker 3: no way, is it ever going to happen. And the
Speaker 3: leadership of our union really stepped up in order to
Speaker 3: call the strike to show our power. It was amazing
Speaker 3: to see to see Fran and Duncan and all that
Speaker 3: go ahead.
Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, if you would have asked the night before
Speaker 2: if SAD going to strike, everybody would be like no, yeah.
Speaker 2: And then that paper came through.
Speaker 3: Oh my yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm surprised that the Director's Guilds of America, which I'm
Speaker 1: a part of as well, didn't strike.
Speaker 3: I was not surprised that by that, because that's their strategy.
Speaker 3: That is the strategy that they've historically used as a union.
Speaker 3: And I, you know, as a guy who thinks a
Speaker 3: lot about labor. It's it's not the strategy that I
Speaker 3: think gets the biggest gains for members. I think you
Speaker 3: get the biggest gains when you are willing to take
Speaker 3: a strike vote and you know, threaten to go on
Speaker 3: strike if necessary, and then be willing to pull the
Speaker 3: trigger if it comes to that. But you know that's
Speaker 3: uh that union operates a different way. The Teamsters didn't strike, right,
Speaker 3: They didn't strike. The Teamsters just announced a tentative deal
Speaker 3: with UPS today, if that might be what you're talking about.
Speaker 3: They were about, I mean, three hundred and fifty thousand
Speaker 3: Teamsters were about to go on strike against U P. Yes,
Speaker 3: and they just announced today that they got the biggest
Speaker 3: deal in their history. And the reason they got such
Speaker 3: a big deal is because they brought a credible threat
Speaker 3: of going on strike. They say, either you give us
Speaker 3: what we want or we're fucking striking, and UPS blinked
Speaker 3: and gave it to them. And that's what the writer's
Speaker 3: gill does in a good year, right, And that's what
Speaker 3: I'm really happy that sag After brought that same energy
Speaker 3: and said we're going to strike, and the you know,
Speaker 3: try us, and the companies tried them and that's what happened.
Speaker 3: I mean, every day in the strike, there's been new surprises,
Speaker 3: new pieces of support, people support coming in from all angles.
Speaker 3: The public support has been enormous, The support and the
Speaker 3: press has been enormous, like we're we're gonna win, We're
Speaker 3: we're unstoppable because everything has been trending in our favor
Speaker 3: every day, and that's not something I expected when we started.
Speaker 1: All Right, here's another good Joell question. How can people
Speaker 1: outside of Los Angeles? I think she means also outside
Speaker 1: of the entertainment industry, because you know, we have people
Speaker 1: in Atlanta and New York everywhere. Joell, come on, how
Speaker 1: can people outside of the entertainment industry show their support
Speaker 1: for both unions?
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a great question, and actually, Zach's it
Speaker 3: gives me an opportunity to answer a question you asked
Speaker 3: earlier in terms of support for other crew members, because
Speaker 3: there's a lot of folks who are affected by the
Speaker 3: strike who are not actors and not writers. Right, there's
Speaker 3: crew members, there's pas, and there's you know, folks who
Speaker 3: cater you know, film shoots and et cetera. They're all
Speaker 3: suffering because of the strike, and so we raise money
Speaker 3: for a fund called the Entertainment Community Fund. It's a
Speaker 3: wonderful fund that's existed in LA in New York for
Speaker 3: one hundred and forty years. Anybody in the country who
Speaker 3: works in the entertainment industry who is on hard times
Speaker 3: having trouble paying rant to their medical bills can apply
Speaker 3: to it for cash assistance, and we are raising money
Speaker 3: for that fund. We've raised over three million dollars so far.
Speaker 3: But if you would like to contribute, your money will
Speaker 3: go directly to an affected entertainment industry worker.
Speaker 1: I believe the link is Entertainmentcommunity dot org.
Speaker 3: Correct. Isn't there a screen actors?
Speaker 2: Gil found the Yes, I played golf for it every
Speaker 2: year and it's it's the same same type of situation,
Speaker 2: is it Yep?
Speaker 3: Yep. The bag After Foundation, the sag After Foundation you
Speaker 3: can donate to as well. It's a very similar fund
Speaker 3: and that money will go to Google go to support
Speaker 3: actors specifically.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the Rock I heard just gave a bunch
Speaker 1: of money to one of those funds.
Speaker 4: No or something, Yeah, seven figures we're hearing.
Speaker 3: We don't have an exact.
Speaker 1: I was generous of him. Donald, don't try and get
Speaker 1: that money to fix up your patio because I know
Speaker 1: you're working on your patty.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to get that rock money, motherfucker.
Speaker 1: Listen man, listen man, don't wrap up all right, Listen now,
Speaker 1: Daniel wants just to clarify, because Daniel's very wise that
Speaker 1: a deal has been reached for UPS but still needs
Speaker 1: to be approved by the majority of the union.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so for the chancers, yeah mind, but still that's
Speaker 2: still progress.
Speaker 7: It's definitely, it's definitely progressed. But you know, my understanding
Speaker 7: is that a lot of the team sers were holding
Speaker 7: out for a hard line of twenty five dollars an hour,
Speaker 7: and this current deal is twenty one dollars an hour,
Speaker 7: going up to twenty three eventually. So there's a good
Speaker 7: chance that a lot of the hardliners might be like
Speaker 7: no five or nothing. So we'll see, we'll see that.
Speaker 3: And that, by the way, is part of what's so
Speaker 3: powerful about a union, because unions are democracies, right, So
Speaker 3: when the leader leadership of a union goes and makes
Speaker 3: a deal, the membership then gets to vote on it,
Speaker 3: and if the membership doesn't like the deal, they will
Speaker 3: vote no and you know, reject the deal. Then the
Speaker 3: leadership has to go back to the table. And so
Speaker 3: that's why, you know, our leadership of our two unions
Speaker 3: can't just go and cut our legs out from under
Speaker 3: us like it. You know, it depends on what the
Speaker 3: workers actually need. It's one of the things that makes
Speaker 3: unions so powerful. Let's take a break.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after these fine words. Are you
Speaker 1: in the quote unquote room where it happens for the
Speaker 1: WGA when this? Yeah, and how many of you are
Speaker 1: in are in the room? Roughly?
Speaker 3: I believe we've got seventeen or eighteen negotiating committee members
Speaker 3: from the Writers Guild West and East, and there's also
Speaker 3: our staff members as well, of which.
Speaker 1: And then how many do they have? How many of
Speaker 1: the am TPS.
Speaker 3: AMPTP they have? Uh, there's about a half dozen lawyers
Speaker 3: just from the AMPTP and then lawyers also from you know, Netflix, Disney, Amazon, Right,
Speaker 3: so it's a big room room together.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he do people ever stand up? You can't handle
Speaker 1: the truth.
Speaker 3: So look, the actual negotiating room is very formal. Right.
Speaker 3: We go in and wee present our proposals, our proposal
Speaker 3: one is this a proposal? Two is that? And then
Speaker 3: they say thank you, and then we leave the room,
Speaker 3: and then we go back in later and they respond
Speaker 3: to the proposals. Our response to proposal one is rejected.
Speaker 3: Our responsive proposal two is rejected, you know, and very mutic.
Speaker 1: For a bunch of for a bunch of dramatic people,
Speaker 1: that's not very dramatic.
Speaker 3: About it's lawyers.
Speaker 1: I bet you in the sag. How about I bet
Speaker 1: you in the sague. Then Nanny's like, fuck you motherfuckers.
Speaker 3: I think there was a little bit more of that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I think there was all that.
Speaker 1: One doesn't around, you know, friends on a desk, beyond people.
Speaker 3: But you know what, what happens in that room is
Speaker 3: kind of secondary because those people in that negotiating room
Speaker 3: are the no machine. The only reason they're in there.
Speaker 3: Their job is to say no over and over and
Speaker 3: over again, and they're hired by the CEOs who are
Speaker 3: not in the room. Our job is to put pressure
Speaker 3: on the CEOs, and we do that by being on
Speaker 3: the picket line. Right. But here's the thing.
Speaker 2: Is there ever a chance that you know you're going
Speaker 2: to see any of the CEOs or anything like that?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, that's the point.
Speaker 2: That's the point is when when do you start running
Speaker 2: up on people, like when does that happen?
Speaker 3: When does on site become a situation? And I think
Speaker 3: it starts happening very soon, right, because the whole point is,
Speaker 3: I don't want to get too deep into the labor
Speaker 3: weeds for your audience. But the AMPTP is an outsourcing organization, right,
Speaker 3: Ted Sarandos, Babeiger, all of them. They hire this company
Speaker 3: called the AMPTP to do their labor negotiations for them
Speaker 3: and to say no for them, so they don't ever
Speaker 3: have to think about it. They just get to load
Speaker 3: around in their yachts, be on the top story of
Speaker 3: their buildings, right while someone else handles it. And our
Speaker 3: entire goal is to get them off the bench, is
Speaker 3: to make them get involved by pressing the issue until
Speaker 3: it's literally such a fucking problem for Ted Sorrandos he
Speaker 3: has to call Bob Iger then go what are we
Speaker 3: going to do? And then they have to call us, right,
Speaker 3: And that's what is about to happen, because again, this
Speaker 3: strike currently is unprecedented. Uh, the AMPTP failed in its
Speaker 3: in its you know, mission to stop a dual strike,
Speaker 3: and they've lost all credibility. And now those CEOs have
Speaker 3: to get involved. So so this is literally going to
Speaker 3: end when you know, in a conversation with that Ted
Speaker 3: Sorrandos and Iiger and and you know, Sherry Redstone and
Speaker 3: all of them are involved in.
Speaker 1: Don't isn't there an algorithm of sorts where there's CFOs
Speaker 1: and money people are going listen or we can afford
Speaker 1: and prepare to recoup in these creative ways this amount
Speaker 1: of money. But once it goes beyond that, we're in.
Speaker 1: You know, our doc is going to be effected. I mean,
Speaker 1: aren't they running all those kind of numbers and going,
Speaker 1: all right, we can let them suffer till November? You know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just pulling that out of my ass.
Speaker 3: But oh, they look they cannot let this go on
Speaker 3: all right, like like they did have that plan with
Speaker 3: the Writer's Guild. They're playing with the reskuils always let's
Speaker 3: hold them off three months before we even talk to them,
Speaker 3: sag after again, striking is not something they predicted. And
Speaker 3: I don't believe they have the ability to weather it
Speaker 3: at all. Now. They always they all will always will
Speaker 3: do those projections, you know, and and those are projections
Speaker 3: that are designed to tell you no right, what we
Speaker 3: can't afford it for X, Y and Z reason. But
Speaker 3: all that matters is what are we willing to work
Speaker 3: with and without? Right? All all that matters is, UH,
Speaker 3: what are writers and actors willing to countenance? You know what?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 3: Are we willing to work for less than this? Uh?
Speaker 3: And if the answer is no, then you know we're
Speaker 3: going to get what we want because you know, all
Speaker 3: that matters at the end of the day is us
Speaker 3: using power and saying, look, if you don't give us
Speaker 3: what we want, we're not fucking going back to work. Right,
Speaker 3: Unless these companies want to stop making American film and
Speaker 3: television entirely, they're gonna have to bargain with us and
Speaker 3: make a deal that we can accept. And that's going
Speaker 3: to be the endgame. No matter what, it's going to
Speaker 3: happen sooner rather than later. But you know that's that
Speaker 3: That is.
Speaker 1: The last thing I want, Adam, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: The last one to ask you was I'm hearing that
Speaker 1: certain indie movies are being getting a waiver because they
Speaker 1: are independent of all of these conglomerates and they are
Speaker 1: somehow giving SAG what they're asking for in the contract.
Speaker 1: Can you explain that how how indies are getting waivers?
Speaker 1: Do you understand?
Speaker 3: Sure? So I only know about this what I've read
Speaker 3: in the trades because I'm not part of this decision
Speaker 3: making process and SAG, but I can explain it a
Speaker 3: little bit that for companies that they feel are not
Speaker 3: affiliated with the AMPTP, they are signing them to an
Speaker 3: interim agreement which says we will will agree to whatever
Speaker 3: your final agreement is with the AMPTP, and they're continuing
Speaker 3: to work. SAG after his view seems to be that
Speaker 3: this will put more pressure on the majors because these
Speaker 3: other you know, independent companies, so you know, so called
Speaker 3: independent companies are making you know, films outside of the system,
Speaker 3: and it's going to encourage you know, the big the
Speaker 3: big players like Universal and Pairamount to come back to
Speaker 3: the table sooner. Personally, very personally, I don't think that
Speaker 3: strategy is going to work that well because unfortunately, a
Speaker 3: lot of those movies are still going to end up
Speaker 3: on Netflix and Apple TV and all these other services.
Speaker 3: They're still part of the pipeline that the AMPTP companies
Speaker 3: are making, uh, you know, making money off of. So
Speaker 3: I don't think it's a great strategy. By the way,
Speaker 3: this is something the Writers Guild tried in two thousand
Speaker 3: and seven and eight, and the reason we're not doing
Speaker 3: it this year is because it didn't We feel it
Speaker 3: didn't work during the two thousand and seven and eight strike. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and so you know, that's that's a disagreement I have. However,
Speaker 3: I think that it's ultimately not gonna matter that much
Speaker 3: because we're talking about, you know, thirty projects or so,
Speaker 3: when the reality is, you know, tens of thousands of
Speaker 3: product projects are stopped down right now. So there's also
Speaker 3: a couple of them that are happening. There was one
Speaker 3: for Apple TV called Tehran, which my understanding is like
Speaker 3: the real problem there was that it was in a
Speaker 3: country where the strike couldn't have been enforced because it
Speaker 3: was shooting overseas, and so there was.
Speaker 1: There's there's some shows like House of Dragon. I don't
Speaker 1: know why I keep bringing that show up today, but
Speaker 1: I am that is not sad. It's a fully English union.
Speaker 1: Uh So they're continuing, and I think I know that
Speaker 1: it doesn't I know this strike doesn't affect commercials, and
Speaker 1: I think animation as well. I think those are separate contracts.
Speaker 1: If I'm not.
Speaker 4: Luckily, the animators are getting together to start their own union,
Speaker 4: which is really exciting.
Speaker 2: Well, it's about time. I'm gonna be honest with you.
Speaker 2: That's something that animators don't have. And animators are shitt
Speaker 2: ton for their work. And some of these guys do
Speaker 2: hours that you and me and girls. Yeah, that's you
Speaker 2: know what I meant. Some of these people, let me
Speaker 2: put it that way.
Speaker 3: And non binary. There's a lot of non binary animators.
Speaker 3: I have met many.
Speaker 2: Okay, look, some of these human beings, Okay, we can
Speaker 2: all agree there some thank you. Some of these human
Speaker 2: beings are working their asses off for hours and hours
Speaker 2: and hours and getting paid very very little. You want
Speaker 2: to talk about, no, do try making a living as
Speaker 2: an animator, dude, It's almost impossible.
Speaker 1: And about these VLX companies that always seem to go
Speaker 1: out of business after a giant movie comes out because
Speaker 1: they just can't pay their bills.
Speaker 3: And let me correct you a little bit, Joelle, they
Speaker 3: actually do have a union. There isn't a union called
Speaker 3: the Animation Guild, but historically it has been a union
Speaker 3: that unfortunately has not been a real fighting union. And
Speaker 3: what the people in the animation Guild are doing now
Speaker 3: is they are fighting their asses off. They are saying, well,
Speaker 3: we want some of this fight for us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you read some of the stories on how
Speaker 2: these people are treated at some of these animation houses, man,
Speaker 2: you can find them one line if anybody's interested, Like,
Speaker 2: because I'm so into animation, you just just just the
Speaker 2: disrespect that these people, that a lot of these people
Speaker 2: receive for their for their hard earned work is just
Speaker 2: as is just as uh deplorable as what we're seeing
Speaker 2: going on.
Speaker 3: With SAG and uh yeah and the Writers Guild.
Speaker 1: When I've been up animation, I meant the SAG contract
Speaker 1: with animated things, I believe is a different contract.
Speaker 3: I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: I'm talking about the actual animators and creators and point.
Speaker 3: And to say they're clarifyed.
Speaker 4: Cartoon Network and Warner Brothers animators specifically have gone to
Speaker 4: the National Labor Relations Board and asked to form a union.
Speaker 4: So they're in the process of trying to move away
Speaker 4: from the established union and create one like in House
Speaker 4: Network and Warner Brothers got it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So there's a lot of activism happening in animation
Speaker 3: that I like, I'm not even all up to speed. Yet.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's one of the really cool things about
Speaker 3: this strike is that we are showing that we have
Speaker 3: power and that we are gonna use that power to
Speaker 3: get what we need. And us as writers and actors,
Speaker 3: we're lucky because our unions have been around and powerful
Speaker 3: for ninety almost one hundred years. But what's happening now
Speaker 3: is folks from all other parts of the entertainment industry
Speaker 3: and other industries around the country are watching what we're
Speaker 3: doing and saying, oh, this is something we can do
Speaker 3: too if we step up. So I've literally talked to choreographers,
Speaker 3: music supervisors, post production workers. These are folks in our
Speaker 3: industry who don't have unions, and they are forming unions
Speaker 3: and take it, which is much harder. That's the hardest
Speaker 3: thing to do is start a union from scratch. But
Speaker 3: they're doing it because they're seeing, Oh my god, look
Speaker 3: at what you can do if you have a union.
Speaker 3: And so that's one of my favorite things about what
Speaker 3: we're doing right now.
Speaker 1: Adam, thank you so much for coming on. Sounds like
Speaker 1: I am going to wrap up. We can stay on
Speaker 1: for a second in chat, but Adam, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: And I'm not allowed to promote it. But I am
Speaker 1: intrigued by how articulate you are. And I am going
Speaker 1: to watch your show and go back and go do
Speaker 1: a deep dive on all your work.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. And just if I can do
Speaker 3: a little plug, I am a touring stand up comedian.
Speaker 3: Would is one of the few kinds of work I
Speaker 3: can do during the strike. Yeah, if you live where
Speaker 3: are you gonna be? Do you live in Buffalo, Saint Louis, Providence,
Speaker 3: Rhode Island, come see me Adam connover dot net for
Speaker 3: tickets and tour dates.
Speaker 1: I go see Adam guys because he's uh, he's clever,
Speaker 1: he's smart. Way do you get your eyes on him?
Speaker 1: And he's a looker.
Speaker 3: He is a looker.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Adam, thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: But we really appreciate this.
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you, pleasure being here, thank.
Speaker 1: Me, thank you, Thanks Adam, Joel, great job of producing,
Speaker 1: Joel getting Adam as a guest, thank you.
Speaker 3: I was very excited.
Speaker 1: He really came through.
Speaker 3: Fabulous.
Speaker 1: We needed it, we needed yeah, Donald's right, it was perfect.
Speaker 1: We needed someone who knew their ship like that, and
Speaker 1: you came through.
Speaker 2: We also needed it because I know our listeners out
Speaker 2: there are like, well, what the fuck is going on
Speaker 2: with fake doctors right now?
Speaker 1: What are they doing right right? So we are going
Speaker 1: to not talk about scrubs for a while until the
Speaker 1: strike is over, but we're gonna talk about other interesting things.
Speaker 3: Donald got a great guest lined up for next We have.
Speaker 1: A really good guest for next week.
Speaker 3: Did you did Let's just say Tom Cruise.
Speaker 1: It's not Tom Cruise, but we could. We could build
Speaker 1: to that. Listen, we are going to build an empire, Donald,
Speaker 1: and we're going to start.
Speaker 3: Can I be the Emperor?
Speaker 1: Yes, you can be.
Speaker 3: I'm willing to be the Lord Vader.
Speaker 1: I don't Oh, I see it all goes back to
Speaker 1: Star Wars because you can be. You can be the Emperor.
Speaker 1: Is the Emperor higher.
Speaker 3: Than Lord Vader? Yes? Than everyone?
Speaker 1: Emperor is the highest. What's that guy who's not the Emperor?
Speaker 1: But he he was in the last big Star Wars
Speaker 1: movie and he was like a hologram and he feels
Speaker 1: like the Emperor.
Speaker 3: Snoke Snoop snook. No, you're talking about.
Speaker 1: Snooky Snoky Snokey. She was he was on Jersey Shore
Speaker 1: to Snokey was snow higher than the Emperor.
Speaker 3: No, No was created by the improve.
Speaker 1: Oh, I want to be Snoke. You can be the
Speaker 1: Okay I created Snoke is snow higher than Vader.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 4: By the time Snoke comes out.
Speaker 1: I need a family tree, Joelle.
Speaker 2: Can you you know you need to be You could
Speaker 2: be you could be freaking tarkt Grandma Tarkan.
Speaker 1: That don't give me a really Donald and Casey gave
Speaker 1: me a really nice belated birthday present.
Speaker 5: What you get?
Speaker 1: Well, they know that I really love land Rover Defenders.
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of them, especially the old D nineties,
Speaker 1: and they got me a D land Rover Defender D
Speaker 1: ninety Lego set. Guess what I'm going to be doing
Speaker 1: whilst I strike?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 4: Hell yeah, hell yeah, I love some Legos.
Speaker 1: Listen, Donald, I love you, I love you. You know
Speaker 1: what I've been watching? I listen. I never get into
Speaker 1: these reality shows. Okay, ever, my whole life, I never
Speaker 1: watched reality shows. But someone gave me a taste of
Speaker 1: the crack, and now I can't. I can't stop watching
Speaker 1: No Below Deck Mediterrane. Well, he's on that people. Donald,
Speaker 1: they fight, they all hook up, some of them have yachts.
Speaker 2: I'm still watching dance moms. I didn't realize that that
Speaker 2: they were that many seasons.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm looking at below Deck. I'm looking at below Deck,
Speaker 1: which is my crack problem, my strike crack problem. And
Speaker 1: there's so many seasons, and I'm like, I gotta get
Speaker 1: off of this. But look how many seasons there are?
Speaker 2: These shows? Are they We're allowed to watch this, aren't we.
Speaker 1: These people are not sacked, but some of them do have.
Speaker 1: These people do have yachts, some of them.
Speaker 4: The bowl is not to promote anything a studio is
Speaker 4: currently promoting.
Speaker 1: We're okay with Below Deck, Joel.
Speaker 3: We're not okay with dance Moms. I'll talk to you, guys.
Speaker 3: It's your idea.
Speaker 1: I will take that.
Speaker 3: I'm not fucking around friend Dresser.
Speaker 1: If fran Dresser calls me about talking about below Deck, med,
Speaker 1: it's my fault.
Speaker 3: All right, okay, all right, guys.
Speaker 1: We love you, We love you listeners. Thank you for
Speaker 1: tuning in. We hope you were educational. That's where we're
Speaker 1: trying to be.
Speaker 6: And five six, seven, eight stories I'm not sure. We
Speaker 6: made about a bunch of talks and nurses and.
Speaker 4: I said, here's.
Speaker 6: A story natural, so YadA around you here yeada around here.
Speaker 5: Spell me, no M