S1: This is the tortoise. The podcast, all about the possibilities
S1: of slow. I am your host, Brooke McAlary, and I
S1: am joined by my marriage host Ben McAlary.
S2: Well.
S3: That's really sci fi.
S1: That's always kind of weird, isn't it?
S3: This is not a podcast. This is a podcast. Sorry.
S3: You'll get it one day. Yeah. I'm going pretty well. I'm.
S3: I'm particularly stressed today. There's a lot of deadlines. There's
S3: a lot happening in work life for both of us.
S3: And we're tilting extremely. Almost to a vertical. We're like
S3: sliding off the slippery. Let's be honest.
S1: Slippery dip. Seesaw.
S3: Seesaw. So. My energy is. Probably a little bit distracted,
S3: but it's perfect for this topic because this topic is
S3: all about talking about self-care and it's something that I
S3: really need to practice right now. So I'm yeah, I'm
S3: looking forward to, to having a chat with you.
S1: I think it's going to be a good one.
S3: Well, let's get into it.
S1: All right. So do you have a definition for self-care,
S1: like how you would define it for yourself?
S3: It was International Self-care Day probably about a month ago.
S3: And I've got a group of men that I sit
S3: with once a month and we discuss self-care during that
S3: particular night. And it was so interesting to hear everyone's.
S3: Definition of what self-care is and. Everyone kept coming back
S3: to this is self-care. Sitting around a table, having a
S3: discussion that's not about footy and shit. That's just about
S3: how we're feeling, how we're going. Our mental state just
S3: talking about other stuff. And everyone kept coming back to
S3: saying like, this is one of the things that I
S3: do for self-care.
S1: Interesting.
S3: Yeah. So it's having real discussion. Real conversation. So that's,
S3: I guess, one of the definitions of it.
S1: Well, or is that one example?
S3: That's that's an example. You're right. That's a that's an
S3: example of it. I was just.
S1: Curious because it means so much to like so many
S1: different things to everybody.
S3: Yeah. I struggle a little bit with self care in
S3: the way that you've written about it previously. Whether that is.
S3: And I do try a lot of things when it
S3: comes to self-care. Some things I think work better than others.
S3: But do you have a definition of self-care?
S1: No, not really. I sort of had a look around
S1: because it's actually quite tricky to come up with a
S1: succinct definition, but it's essentially, you know, you look online,
S1: there's many different versions of kind of a similarly themed definition,
S1: which is something along the lines of referring to activities
S1: that preserve I'm reading this one that preserve and maintain
S1: one's physical, emotional and mental health.
S3: Oh, okay.
S1: It's an ongoing commitment to look after yourself through helpful
S1: behaviors that protect your health during periods of stress, as
S1: well as an additional kind of element to that. And
S1: that one I quite liked because it's very broad.
S3: I like the three categories physical, emotional and mental. Yes.
S3: So the sitting around with other men. Talking, sharing a
S3: meal for me that's like emotional. Oh, yeah. More. More
S3: so than mental. But I guess they're kind of intertwined.
S3: Because I was going to say, the physical self-care that
S3: I like is exercising and having a regular exercising schedule.
S3: My mental and emotional state deteriorate if I don't do
S3: the physical exercise. So can and I guess that's how
S3: they're all interlinked is Yeah. Making sure that you're. Yeah,
S3: they all relate to one. Yeah. Yeah.
S1: I don't think I think in the practices you can
S1: certainly separate them out and have, you know, as you said,
S1: maybe exercise or regular movement is something that you would
S1: categorize yourself as physical self-care. But I think it's really
S1: difficult to kind of separate them completely and have them
S1: in their own silos because, you know, what we do
S1: physically impacts our mental health, which impacts our emotional health.
S1: You can't you can't fully separate them out. Yeah. The
S1: other thing that I don't know if you would have
S1: considered it, but it's part of certainly part of my,
S1: I guess, definition or the way I try and think
S1: about and practice self-care is that there are some elements
S1: or examples of self-care that are external facing. So things
S1: like your gathering of men where you talk and you know,
S1: or it could be catching up with a friend or
S1: talking to a family member or just a wave to
S1: a stranger, whatever, you know, kind of connection or a
S1: random act of kindness, something like that. They're all what
S1: I would classify as sort of outward facing. And then
S1: you've got inward facing. So that's more your the stuff
S1: that I'm I'm probably more drawn to just because I'm
S1: super introverted journaling and meditation and solitude and creativity and
S1: that kind of stuff. So it's been helpful for me
S1: to recognize that there going to be times where, um,
S1: those external or outward facing types of self care might
S1: feel more draining than others, and it may be not
S1: what I need right now. So if I'm feeling burnt
S1: out or over socialized, then perhaps going and hanging out
S1: with a group of people is not going to make
S1: me feel supported from within. It might still be good
S1: for me, but it may not tick that self-care box
S1: at that time. And that's where I might need to
S1: turn inward and find a practice that helps me feel
S1: supported from within and cared for from within. And I
S1: guess that's really how I classify self-care, feeling supported or
S1: cared for from within.
S3: Okay. So that that's your definition of self-care.
S1: I think that's how I can. Sort of quickly quantify
S1: whether or not I'm doing a decent enough job of it.
S1: Do I feel cared for from within?
S3: So this is what I was kind of referring to
S3: at the start, is that I can't or don't have the.
S3: Smarts to be able to tap into that sort of self.
S3: Self care. The the inwardly focused self care.
S1: Well, maybe you don't need it though either.
S3: And so is a personality based, do you think? I
S3: don't know. I guess I don't ever want.
S1: I don't want people to feel bad about like, doing
S1: or not doing certain types of self care. That's all I.
S3: Know. It's very individualized. That's obvious.
S1: What I will say is for you, I think. I
S1: think you probably. Would benefit from some of those more
S1: like interfacing practices, but maybe haven't found ones that suit
S1: you yet. You have tried meditation and you know, you'll
S1: occasionally say, Yeah, this is really.
S3: Yeah.
S1: Good for me.
S3: It's just part of my routine.
S1: And see, that's it. So is it not helping you
S1: because it's not part of your routine or is it
S1: not helping you because it doesn't really fulfill you in
S1: that way? It's interesting. I think that I'm probably more
S1: well-practiced in those, those like self reflection sort of. You know,
S1: moments through journaling and just being like an A grade
S1: Overthinker and that's not necessarily you. So. Yeah, I don't know. But,
S1: I mean, I've often said to you when you're going
S1: through periods of stress. Why don't you try this strategy like,
S1: you know, morning pages or meditation or, you know, a
S1: really simple mindfulness practice or something like that. And you
S1: might do it once and you'll be like, Yeah, it
S1: was good. And then that's it.
S3: Morning Pages. I do do a similar it's not morning
S3: pages as you do it where. Yeah, sure. State of conscience.
S1: Stream like a stream.
S3: Of conscience flow state where you just writing anything and
S3: everything and if you can't think of anything to write,
S3: you write. I can't think of anything to write, which
S3: is kind of cool. But I, I do a similar
S3: activity where I just brain dump. It's, it doesn't necessarily
S3: make a whole heap of sense, but it does give
S3: me an idea of what are my priorities today work wise,
S3: family wise. And self like self care wise, I guess
S3: to an extent because I use. Like physical exercise as
S3: part of that. And. Yeah. Yeah. Our dog is building
S3: a cubby house.
S1: Dreams of some sort of doggie fort, which is nice.
S1: That might be what he needs. He's having some self-care moments. Um.
S3: Yeah. So that's the morning pages. So I do I
S3: do get the benefit of that. And you've spoken about
S3: Morning pages. What would you I guess what would your
S3: advice be to someone that. Is typically saying, Well, I
S3: don't have time for self-care in the more traditional sense
S3: of self care, because that's where often I find myself
S3: and that'll be my excuse. I'm not meditating because I
S3: don't have the time.
S1: Yeah, I think I don't like advice. I don't like
S1: giving advice so much, But something that I do often
S1: find myself referring back to is changing your focus on.
S1: The outcome. So I find that when we talk about anything,
S1: it could be creative. It could be creativity, it could
S1: be self care, it could be movement, whatever. Um, we
S1: so often focus on how it looks, right? So for you,
S1: you just mentioned I don't meditate. I don't do these
S1: things that you've decided that that's what self-care looks like, right?
S1: It looks like meditation. It looks like, um, you know, mindfulness.
S1: It looks like morning pages. It looks like whatever. Refocusing
S1: our attention on how it feels. So finding your own
S1: definition of self-care. For me, it's that again. Feeling cared
S1: for from within and supported from within. So not getting
S1: that validation or that sense of nurturing from someone else,
S1: but from myself. And if I can find what that
S1: feels like, if it's a physical sensation, if it's an
S1: emotional response, uh, and try and then find things that
S1: will offer that in really small bite sized pieces. So
S1: like I view certain, some things that really weird little things,
S1: I view them as self-care because for whatever reason I
S1: feel cared for when I do them.
S3: Like, okay, well let's give some examples because this fascinates me.
S1: So clearing the kitchen bench before I go to bed.
S1: I mean, we'll have a cup of tea after we've
S1: cleaned up, right? And for ages we would just put
S1: we don't have a dishwasher in our house because it's old.
S1: So we would just put our teacups on the kitchen
S1: bench and be. They'll be there in the morning. We'll
S1: clean them up then. I didn't realize, but that kind
S1: of really frustrated me. So just washing them up and dry, like,
S1: you know, drying them or putting them in the sink
S1: so I can't even see them. That feels like self-care
S1: because I get up in the morning and it's a
S1: clear space. Like that's a ridiculous thing, but it feels
S1: like self-care. Same with opening the curtains every morning. I
S1: find that ritual and I call it a ritual in
S1: my head, which might be something to consider as well.
S1: That ritual of opening the of opening the curtains greeting
S1: the day feels really grounding and centering. And it's just
S1: a tiny little moment for me that I would be
S1: doing anyway. But I've found it to be a shortcut
S1: to that sense of feeling cared for or supported from within. Weird.
S1: I know. Um, having. So I have to take a
S1: tablet first thing in the morning when I wake up.
S1: I get that out the night before and have it
S1: next to my bed with a glass of water that
S1: feels like self-care, taking my supplements, that is self-care, that
S1: is literally self-care. But I treat it as a moment
S1: of supporting myself and caring for myself rather than some
S1: thing that I have to do that I have to take.
S3: Because you spoke. So you're just speaking about rituals slash habits?
S1: Sure. Yeah. And in part it's it's reframing those things.
S1: So you were talking about not having time. So I
S1: guess there's a way of maybe shortcutting that's finding things
S1: that offer you a shortcut to that sense of feeling
S1: cared for as your, you know, your bare minimum rituals
S1: or habits of self-care. You look perplexed.
S3: I'm interested. Because if I was to because I love
S3: writing down what I need to do in a day,
S3: and if I start writing in those habitual, maybe self
S3: care orientated things, they would just be part of that list.
S3: So that's sort of one way. Instead of it being
S3: a subconscious thing, it needs to be actually planned for.
S1: Oh yeah, you can't like until these things become second
S1: nature like deeply ingrained second nature. You have to be
S1: intentional about it, like, and I.
S3: Think that's the biggest barrier for me.
S1: It's a practice and that you call it a practice
S1: for a reason, you know, And I will fall in
S1: and out of practices all the time. Up until about
S1: six months ago, I had a solid self-care ritual in
S1: the morning that was, you know, get up, put the
S1: coffee on stretch, pour coffee, come and sit out in
S1: the back room, write in my journal, drink my coffee, meditate, write.
S1: You know, all they were all part of my morning
S1: self-care ritual until about six months ago. And then I
S1: realized that just because of where my health is at
S1: the moment, the best self-care I can give myself in
S1: the mornings is actually to sleep for the extra hour.
S1: So that's what I've been doing, you know? So you
S1: fall in and out of them all the time, but
S1: it's to me. I don't know that we clock the
S1: the care that we're giving ourselves unless we're doing it intentionally.
S1: So you could be like going through all the motions
S1: and you do you prioritize sleep, you prioritize good nutrition,
S1: you prioritize movement, you prioritize connection. And it's interesting to
S1: me that you don't see any of those things as
S1: self-care because maybe you haven't clocked them as an intentional
S1: choice to care for yourself.
S3: I agree with that. I really agree with that. Going
S3: back to the men's table that I'm involved in and
S3: the different themes that came up during the topic of
S3: self care, one of the biggest. In fact, I think
S3: every single person spoke about it. And we're talking about
S3: like an intergenerational table here from, Yeah, 80 year olds
S3: down to to younger adults. And it was nature. Being
S3: in nature and connecting with nature, whether that's bushwalkers, mountain biking.
S3: Every man. Said that as nature is so important because
S3: inevitably the topic got on to tech and tech usage
S3: and being addicted to phones and devices and always on
S3: always connected to step away from that connected world. Is
S3: a is a really, really important. Thing to do in
S3: regards to self-care.
S1: That's really interesting because the way you. Sort of spoke
S1: about it. These weren't necessarily people well versed in self-care.
S1: Not at all. Particularly like modern ideas of self care.
S3: Everyone had to get really warmed up to talk about
S3: self care. Yeah, it wasn't it didn't come naturally. People
S3: immediately went to. Talking to a counsellor or talking to
S3: a professional about their mental health. That was like the
S3: first thing people said. Some people said.
S1: Right, So there's a real. Real crossover or like maybe
S1: there's confusion around the difference between self help and self care.
S3: I agree for a lot of people, I think yeah,
S3: that's exactly, exactly it.
S1: That's really interesting. But I mean, going back to nature,
S1: I think that that just shows how wired we are
S1: for the healing power of nature as. As self care
S1: know and any dose of nature and I write about
S1: it in care a lot is is going to have
S1: a positive impact. I mean even looking at a photo
S1: of nature or listening to birdsong or being in a
S1: room that has a view of a tree, they are
S1: going to positively benefit us in a self care sense.
S1: So actively seeking out moments of nature, even if they
S1: are those tiny little ones or, you know, paying attention
S1: to the grass when you're walking to the bus stop or,
S1: you know, getting outside for five minutes and pulling weeds
S1: or laying in the sun and listening to the sun on.
S3: Your face and yeah, eyes and yeah, mouth and face
S3: and yeah, it's so important.
S1: Soaking it in, you know, in whatever capacity. It's it's
S1: fascinating to me that people who didn't have any language
S1: around self-care still highlighted the importance of nature.
S3: What about that walk that we did recently with our
S3: kids that started off with at least one of them saying,
S3: there's no way I want to do this. I don't
S3: want to do this kicking and dragging for this. Nature walk,
S3: you know, seven nature walk. And the conversations were just
S3: so funny at the start of the walk. They were
S3: all about. Talking about things, about tech, about gaming, about.
S3: Social media like they were the topics. By KM five
S3: it was Look at that flower. Look at the way
S3: the the lights hitting those leaves. Look at this awesome
S3: stick I've got you know it can carry like. Mm.
S3: That's the power of it.
S1: Do you feel that when you go out into nature intentionally,
S1: do you feel is there a point where things change
S1: for you?
S3: Yeah. They click over. They it's it's. Yeah, it's very noticeable, actually.
S1: Like a decompression or something.
S3: Yeah.
S4: Yeah.
S3: Because I never really the senses just get over. It's
S3: a with social media your senses can get. Bombarded, crazily
S3: bombarded with just input after input after input. The similar
S3: inputs in nature, if you like, slow down and just.
S3: Take everything in the noise, the light, the the animals,
S3: the the way that your legs are, you know, like
S3: everything all the sensors just it's. It's loud. Like it's
S3: a really loud noise. But for whatever reason, it's restorative. Restorative. Yes, it's. It's.
S3: But I don't know. There's something different about nature and
S3: and and I'm not just not saying it right, but
S3: the noise in nature is quite loud if you allow it.
S1: Absolutely. And that's paying attention, Right? That's, you know, that's
S1: actively noticing using all your senses. You become aware of
S1: what's happening around you and inside you and to you
S1: and because of you. And I think. While like social media,
S1: for example, tech use is similarly stimulating, almost all of
S1: that stimulation is happening from our neck up. We're not
S1: physically feeling anything except maybe, you know, scrolling thumb, tired eyes, whatever. But.
S1: Everything is coming in via our eyes and our ears,
S1: and it's all happening in our heads. So it's a
S1: totally different sense of overstimulation. And again, going back to
S1: what happens when we are intentional with it. You know,
S1: you start to recognize that decompression point when you're outside or,
S1: you know that moment where your shoulders like, go relax. Yeah,
S1: I always find like this kind of. If I go
S1: out into the bush for a bush walk? And I'm
S1: in a bad mood. I don't know, maybe ten minutes
S1: in and I'm smiling like an idiot at the trees
S1: and the flowers and the birds and, you know, stopping
S1: to look at things. And it's just such a shift.
S1: And it's so. Obvious. Every time I like never once
S1: have I gone, Gee, I wish I didn't do that. Gee,
S1: I regret going out and doing that. It never happens.
S1: It never happens at once. Same with exercise or, you know,
S1: anything like that. And I guess that's where going back
S1: to your point about. Learning to be intentional with it.
S1: That paired with the realization that these things are never wasted,
S1: these these efforts to care for ourselves and never wasted
S1: pair that with intentionality. That's where you start to build
S1: a practice of self-care that really does leave you feeling
S1: supported and cared for from within. I think.
S3: What if I ask you for your top three self-care habits? Rituals.
S3: What would you how would you rank them and why?
S1: Rank. Oh, okay. I'm not going to rank them. That
S1: makes me nervous. I don't know why. So the thing
S1: that I will always, always come back to, aside from nature,
S1: is journaling.
S3: Always because which is different to morning pages. When you
S3: mean journaling, what are you actually?
S1: Journaling can mean so many different things.
S3: Okay, so what do you how do you journal then?
S1: So I often journal in a morning pages style. It
S1: may not. It used to be a solid three pages.
S1: Do not stop writing, do not ever go over or
S1: under that. And that was building my practice that was recognizing.
S3: So hard to do. I've tried to do it and
S3: it is really hard.
S1: Yes, it is. But to me it has been like
S1: a complete. Kind of turning point over the years. And
S1: I have come to know myself so incredibly well through
S1: that process of morning pages simply because it is hard,
S1: you know, yes, anyone can sit down and write surface
S1: level stuff, you know, concerns or things that are going
S1: on this week and why you're in a bad mood
S1: or who said what pissed you off or that you
S1: can anyone can do that for a page. Absolutely. Maybe two.
S1: But it's not until you get to the end of
S1: the second page. In my experience, that stuff starts to
S1: come out and you're like, Where did you come from?
S1: And I have learned so much about myself through that
S1: exact process. And I think I think I'm now at
S1: the point where I can shortcut to that. So journaling
S1: is in essence, the same kind of approach stream of consciousness,
S1: but I don't necessarily need to dig around for those
S1: three pages. I often find myself where I kind of
S1: knew I was headed, but not sure what I was
S1: going to find. Much quicker than that. But sometimes journaling
S1: is like writing a couple of paragraphs about, you know,
S1: precisely how I'm feeling, and then I might shift into
S1: a poem or that might be it, or it might be,
S1: you know, a list of things, or it might, I
S1: might end up writing about work or drafting out a
S1: post like it's, it's not a. Cut and dried technique
S1: for me anymore. But it's the thing I always come
S1: back to. And if I get lost, if I'm stuck,
S1: if I'm overwhelmed, if I'm everything else is too much,
S1: I will always find myself back on the page. So
S1: there's that. This gardening.
S3: Okay. Nature.
S1: Yeah. So being outside, hands in the dirt, feet, preferably barefooted,
S1: you know, coming in tired. I've got a bit of a.
S1: Strained relationship with that at the moment. Just with your energy. Yeah,
S1: my energy. So up and down it has been. Not
S1: completely missing, but I've had to completely rethink what it
S1: looks like. And again, that's where I'm trying to take
S1: my own advice of like not focusing on what it
S1: looks like. So it used to be. You know, wait
S1: and prepare this garden bed. That's what it would look
S1: like and that would feel like success. Now it's like,
S1: how do I want to feel? And I might feel
S1: fulfilled or I might feel that exhausted kind of sensation
S1: in my muscles after five minutes, or I might feel
S1: like that's enough and that is enough. So the gardening.
S1: And then okay, so I've got boring self care that
S1: I would also classify as super important boring self.
S3: Yeah. Okay.
S1: That's things like taking my supplements, making sure I'm taking
S1: my medication, drinking enough water, not having coffee after lunchtime. Well, that's.
S3: Just setting yourself up for success.
S1: But that's self-care. Yeah, that is self-care. You know, you're
S1: caring for yourself so that you can feel, well, mentally, physically, emotionally.
S1: Which means that you can then. Move through your day
S1: in a much more positive way. No matter what it
S1: throws at you, you know, And that like that is self-care.
S1: It doesn't have to leave you with this glowing sensation
S1: of of, you know, self righteousness or something. It's just
S1: looking after yourself. So going to bed, getting, trying to
S1: get eight hours sleep every night, moving when I can,
S1: I would classify. A connection with other people is somewhere between.
S1: Boring is the wrong word, almost begrudging self-care and really
S1: powerful self-care. Because I'm. I'm very introverted and have often
S1: joked that I would probably be a hermit if left
S1: my own devices. That's not good for me. I know that.
S1: So ensuring I connect with people. Is really important as well.
S3: That's a good three.
S1: Yeah, I feel like there was about 17 in there,
S1: but thank you. Do you have any that you would
S1: classify as. Kind of top tier for you?
S3: Yeah. So physically, like moving. Exercising. It's the big one
S3: for me and something I've only really developed and prioritized
S3: over the last maybe 3 or 4 years. But it
S3: is so important. Feeling healthy. It's just it's a really
S3: nice feeling to be able to feel, to say, Yeah,
S3: I'm feeling healthy, I'm feeling the best I can be
S3: at the moment. And I think exercise goes a long
S3: way of supporting that from a physical sense and mental.
S3: I guess the other one is yeah, talking to other
S3: people about. In just having this conversation, for example, is
S3: a is a form of self-care. Having interesting conversations with people. Just. Yeah,
S3: really works for me. And that's probably because I'm a
S3: bit more of an extrovert than you are. I don't
S3: know what I am. I think you're I don't have
S3: a label, but that to me is. Really important for
S3: for my emotional and mental state. And the third one
S3: is an interesting one. I'm going to have to say
S3: nature again, just being outside, taking those, whether it's ten
S3: minutes at lunchtime, just to be outside in whatever weather,
S3: just feel like I'm connecting on another level that is
S3: not tech.
S1: Yep. So, you know, what about chopping firewood? Could you
S1: could you find a way to make that a self-care moment? Yeah.
S3: As long as I pay attention to where the blade is.
S1: Yeah, please do. Please do.
S3: Don't turn off.
S1: Completely. No, but that's it. I think it's interesting that you.
S1: You thought you have to turn off. It's actually turning on.
S3: Just a different part of your brain.
S1: Yeah. Yeah. But it's paying closer attention to what you're doing.
S1: It's not going into some dreamland in your mind where
S1: you're detached, but it's actually the opposite. I think of that.
S1: It's becoming like reattached to what you're doing because most
S1: of your work, for example, is. Again from the neck up.
S1: You know, you do a lot of talking, a lot
S1: of thinking, a lot of writing. So, you know, using
S1: that trip out to the shed and the ten minutes
S1: of chopping wood a day as a something you got
S1: to do anyway. Yeah. It's like a ritual, a moment
S1: where you can shift into a different mode of being
S1: for a little while. It's so interesting.
S3: Being in an office at which I am sometimes and.
S1: Like an actual office with actual people, other people.
S3: Within it, in the office. And after lunch you can
S3: tell the people that have left the office and you
S3: can tell the people that stayed at the office to
S3: have lunch.
S1: Okay. In what way? In what way?
S3: Well, sometimes people are wet because it was raining. No, Because.
S3: People look brighter and happier when they've been out. Even
S3: if they ate lunch and just went for a walk
S3: or whatever, you could tell people that have got up,
S3: moved around, move their bodies gone outside. They just seem
S3: more clear headed. They're friendlier to approach. It's really strange,
S3: I know, but I. Give me a cross-section of people
S3: and I'll be able to tell which ones have been
S3: outside for lunch or just taking some time for themselves
S3: away from their desks.
S1: I wonder if that's huge, if that's partly like getting
S1: out into the sunshine. That's what, you know, getting. So
S1: I think they talk about when you're on a screen
S1: all day to have breaks. Yes. For movement, but also
S1: for your eyes. Yeah.
S3: So giving your eyes.
S1: A yeah and.
S3: Focus break because it's that it's that like 30 centimeter.
S1: That's right.
S3: Focus.
S1: So it's sort of looking out into the distance. And
S1: if you can find something in the distance that is
S1: green or that is, you know, water or like an
S1: open piece of.
S3: Space or whatever it is, yeah.
S1: Even better. Yeah. So, you know, that could be part
S1: of it as well.
S3: Yeah, I think so. I think that's that is.
S1: What's something that you. Would like to improve with your self-care. Mhm.
S3: It's a good question. I've always wanted to meditate. Of
S3: really wanted to try. And I have given it a
S3: good go. But for whatever reason, I can't seem to
S3: develop that ritual. I'd like to do some more inwardly
S3: focused self-care. That That to me is something that I'd
S3: like to focus on. It can't be journaling, though. It's
S3: got to be just sitting and maybe it is meditating,
S3: sitting with my thoughts. Such an uncomfortable thing to do.
S1: Yeah.
S3: But I. I mean, I've seen people that have been
S3: meditating and they're like crying with, like, joy and happiness.
S3: I want that. Looks great.
S1: Mm. Okay. I think you should investigate.
S5: Well.
S1: I'm not well versed in meditation. Like I have found
S1: something that works for me. I dip in and out
S1: of it. There are so many different ways to meditate.
S1: So it's a matter, I think, for you of finding
S1: something that. It speaks to that thing that you want,
S1: that that feeling that you want of, you know, that
S1: joyful like I don't know what that would be.
S3: Because I've done the. Insight timer and yeah, you know,
S3: all those sorts of meditation. Maybe it's having to go
S3: to a group meditation, maybe.
S1: Yeah.
S3: For some reason I do like group environments.
S5: Yep.
S1: The only time I have ever cried during meditation was
S1: during a group.
S3: Really?
S1: Yeah. It was at the end of yoga. Yeah. Yeah,
S1: it was like a.
S3: Endorphin.
S1: Rush. No, it was like a physical release of emotional. Tension.
S3: Want that? That sounds great.
S1: It was. Of pudding. To be honest, it came out
S1: of nowhere.
S3: Yeah. Which that's exactly how it's supposed to work. Sure.
S1: Yeah. I'd never experienced it before. To me, it's always
S1: meditation has always been a much. Yeah, I was going
S1: to say gentler. Especially in the beginning. Like it's it's
S1: a it's frustrating. Meditation is frustrating.
S3: For me and the way I am at the moment.
S3: I'd love a clear head. My head just feels so
S3: full all the time.
S1: I think that's probably why I always suggest journaling to
S1: you because it is literally.
S5: I can't.
S1: Put. But you do because you do work like you
S1: do morning pages and you do brain dumping.
S3: I've done it. I have done morning pages and I
S3: do brain dumping works. I know it works. And I
S3: do that on an almost a daily occurrence. But I
S3: feel like that's different to a stream of conscience morning
S3: pages thing where you were writing literally anything.
S1: Oh, yeah, absolutely different, I feel.
S3: Really uncomfortable in my head when I do that.
S1: God, I'd love to, like, crack your brain open and
S1: walk around in it for a bit.
S5: Mixed metaphors.
S1: Wouldn't that be cool, though, to be? I don't know.
S1: Would it be cool to be able to do that? Like.
S3: Of often said with you and the way in your
S3: medical issue. I just like I would love to live
S3: just as you for one day just so I and
S3: I do empathize, but I want to feel it like
S3: I want to be able to. Really feel it.
S5: And yeah, I get it.
S1: I get it. Yeah.
S3: So I guess I need to throw that question back
S3: to you. What do you want to improve on? What
S3: would you like to be able to do when it
S3: comes to self-care?
S1: I mean, the thing that I would love to be
S1: able to get back to is a more regular approach
S1: to movement and exercise. You know, up until probably 12
S1: months ago, maybe, maybe not even beginning of this year.
S1: I was sort of. In a pretty good place with.
S1: Training and walking, and I would lift weights 2 or
S1: 3 times a week and nothing crazy, but.
S3: You're just moving and you're but.
S1: Moving intentionally and challenging. Myself.
S3: You were. Yeah.
S1: And it was regular and it felt good and I
S1: felt cared for and I felt supported from within. And
S1: I had that feeling that you described of, you know,
S1: that positive feeling of health fullness. And then everything took
S1: a dive a few months ago and I've had to stop. Like,
S1: I will go to training with you, but I can't
S1: do anything. I mean, I couldn't even.
S3: Get stretch You do stretch, you're moving, you do.
S1: Move. And that's what I was going to say. So.
S1: I move every day in some capacity. I will come
S1: out into the back room during lunch break or, you know,
S1: when I'm taking a break from my computer and stretch.
S1: I still do stretches when I'm waiting for the coffee
S1: to brew. I do things to move my body and
S1: I wear an aura ring which will alert me if
S1: I've been sitting still for an hour or longer. So
S1: I always tap into that, you know, and. Make sure
S1: I get up, drink a lot of water so that
S1: I go to the bathroom. Like even things like that,
S1: it helps.
S3: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
S1: So I guess in an ideal world, I'd love to
S1: get back to training the way that I was, but
S1: I think. It's about building some more of those micro
S1: moments of movement into my day very intentionally. And I
S1: think that would would be of benefit to me physically,
S1: but also mentally.
S5: Yeah, I like.
S3: The macro micro breakdown of self-care.
S1: Yeah. And that's, that's really important because I think we
S1: lose the idea that the tiny little moments can be
S1: just as powerful, particularly if we apply them consistently.
S3: That's the thing that I need to work on.
S5: Micro self-care.
S1: Yeah. And even doing the things that you already do
S1: through the lens of self-care.
S5: Chopping wood. Yeah, self-care, drinking.
S1: Water.
S3: Self-care.
S1: Going to bed early.
S5: Oh, wonderful. It is.
S1: Wonderful. But, you know, if you can file that away
S1: in your head as another way, you're caring for yourself
S1: every day it feels different. It doesn't just feel like
S1: nice or like luxurious. Like you almost seem to think
S1: that it's a treat, you know? It's actually you caring
S1: for yourself. And that. That reframe, I think makes a
S1: huge difference. And it also takes away the bullshit of
S1: self care because there is so much of it, right?
S1: We spoke about a few months back, there was the
S1: wellness and social media episode. It's so easy to talk
S1: self care and end up down there.
S3: Oh yeah.
S5: Massively.
S1: It really is. And it just doesn't have to be
S1: to me. Self care should and is accessible to everybody.
S3: Self care is free.
S1: Absolutely. There are things that you can buy and do
S1: and pay for that might help you facilitate your own
S1: self care or learn about it. Fine. I have no
S1: problem with that. But it is and should be accessible
S1: to everybody. To everyone and everybody. So, you know, I
S1: think that that's. Why those micro moments can be so
S1: helpful and powerful, You know, and what I'd encourage people
S1: to do, I guess, is if you're listening to this
S1: and you've got a few ideas coming to you for
S1: what tiny moments of self-care could look like for you,
S1: those moments that make you feel supported and cared for.
S1: Write them down like take five minutes. Make a list
S1: as long as you can of any tiny thing that
S1: makes you feel good and refer to it on any
S1: given day. You know, if you give yourself three 32nd
S1: blocks of self-care time or something, what can you do
S1: from that list? And I think sometimes taking the brain
S1: work out of it means that on the days where
S1: we really need it, but we think we don't have time,
S1: we can just look at that list and go, okay,
S1: I'll do that.
S3: That's me. That's me today.
S5: Okay.
S3: Really good advice.
S1: Not advice.
S5: Encouragement lesson.
S1: So I guess one of the reasons that I wanted
S1: to do the self care topic today was a, because
S1: it felt very. Relevant to you at the moment. I
S1: know that you've been under the pump and I wanted
S1: to talk about it and be over on the tortoise.
S1: I hadn't realized I was doing this until last term,
S1: but because I write in sort of ten week blocks
S1: and take a couple of weeks off. Each of the
S1: terms of writing have had their own kind of loose theme.
S1: And the theme for this current block of ten weeks
S1: is self care. So that does fit in really nicely.
S1: And I think that subconsciously I selected that as a
S1: topic because I needed it to and to really, I guess,
S1: reframe what it can mean because it's really easy when
S1: you go through a change in your circumstances to lose
S1: sight of what self-care is to you. And I think
S1: I'm probably rebuilding a new version of it for myself,
S1: which definitely includes writing. Which is the other reason I
S1: wanted to bring this topic up. So as part of
S1: the Tortoise for paying subscribers, I run an online retreat
S1: every quarter. So first quarter of the year, I did
S1: a values retreat. Second quarter was rhythms. And in this
S1: quarter I'm actually doing a retreat called Writing as self-care.
S1: So if that's something that interests anyone listening, you can
S1: head over to the tortoise, which is at Brooke McAlary Substack.
S1: Com And you can sign up as a paying subscriber.
S1: It's $5 a month or $50 a year Australian And
S1: you can join us regardless.
S5: Join the community.
S1: Yeah, join the community. Absolutely. You will get, you know,
S1: most Sundays you'll get a post for paying subscribers. Every Thursday.
S1: Everyone gets a post and it's usually a letter or
S1: a podcast episode, something practical or something. Um, a little
S1: bit more. Head heavy. I'm running out of good words.
S5: Head, heavy. Head.
S1: Heavy. You know, all up in my head. Yeah. So, anyway,
S1: if the. Writing a self-care topic interests you. You should
S1: go and check it out. Say hello and see what
S1: the tortoise is all about.
S3: You're a good teacher. Now, you had a reflection for us.
S5: Yes.
S3: For today's.
S1: Episode. The reflection section.
S3: The reflection?
S5: Yeah, the reflection section.
S1: So a few weeks back, I wrote a post about
S1: toxic positivity, which seemed to really. Um, interest. A lot of.
S5: People did it grind.
S3: People's gears?
S1: I don't think so. I think toxic positivity grinds people's gears.
S1: So it was, it was interesting to see people kind
S1: of reflect very broadly on their own experiences and their
S1: own challenges of dealing with toxic positivity, either their own
S1: or other people's. Uh, but one comment in particular sort
S1: of grabbed my attention from Holly, and I'm just going
S1: to read it because I have been thinking about it
S1: a lot since she, um, since she submitted it. She said,
S1: I find when I'm trying to console or just go
S1: through my own negative emotions, I struggle with this balance
S1: of letting myself feel the negativity without wallowing in it
S1: and trying to be resilient against it, but without denying
S1: my rights to feel sad. You briefly mentioned that resilience
S1: and a positive attitude has a place, but I'd be
S1: interested in what you mean by this and how not
S1: to get it confused with suppressing emotions.
S3: Oh, it's so such an interesting.
S5: Comment, Such.
S1: A good question.
S3: Resilience is such a loaded word.
S1: Why do you say that?
S5: It just.
S3: Is. It just is because it is very individualistic in
S3: terms of. People's. Capacity to be resilient and it can
S3: so easily. Depending on the individual. Really harm people over
S3: a long period of time.
S1: Yeah. No.
S3: She just pushed through things no matter what. And you
S3: have this. Head heavy state where it's you are, no
S3: matter what the circumstances, you push through and you are
S3: blunting yourself emotionally. Mentally.
S1: And the flow on effects of that can be enormous.
S5: Huge.
S1: Yeah, it's a really. Tricky topic, I suppose, because. I
S1: think that resilience is important. I think having a certain
S1: amount of grit and. Inner strength is really important. But
S1: what I think resilience has started to come to mean in,
S1: you know, the mainstream. And this so often happens when
S1: an idea or a topic becomes popularized. It gets diluted
S1: or or. More kind of black and white. At same
S1: thing happen with like mindfulness or, you know, self like wellness,
S1: that kind of stuff. They've all been. Co-opted and.
S3: Commoditized.
S5: Yet?
S1: Exactly. And to the point where we don't necessarily completely
S1: know what the word means when we're using it. We
S1: think we do, but maybe it's not.
S3: And we use it often. They're just so often used.
S1: Yeah. So it's almost like it's.
S5: Lost its.
S1: Meaning, but. For me when I hear resilience. I think
S1: what what what a lot of us think it's trying
S1: to say is toughen up. Yeah. And tough it out
S1: and stick through it. That's it. Through. Yeah. Whereas the
S1: way I see resilience is actually softening into something, you know,
S1: the resilience comes from an inner place rather than an
S1: external shell that allows us to push through. And I
S1: don't know if that's. True or not. I like.
S3: That. I like the shell part.
S1: Yeah.
S3: So everyone needs that protection. Yes, but people have got
S3: to be more like a. Like a soft shelled crab.
S5: Rather than.
S3: A. Lobster.
S1: Oh, we stuck with the crustaceans.
S5: Yeah. Love lobster.
S1: Yeah. Okay. So I do I do think, though, that
S1: there's something in that. Crustacean analogy. You know, what can
S1: we do to. Develop an inner strength rather than an
S1: external shell. Yeah, or too much of an external shell.
S1: I think you're right. We need to. We need to
S1: be able to protect ourselves to a certain extent from.
S1: You know, the inevitable pushing through that happens in life
S1: because sometimes we just have to. But if that becomes
S1: our only mechanism for coping with difficult things as pushing through,
S1: then I don't think anything gets in and we can't reflect,
S1: we can't absorb, we can't really meet our selves in
S1: that space. So I think that a positive attitude is
S1: a different thing again, though. And I think that if
S1: you're able to pair a positive attitude, which is not
S1: sunshine and roses and everything's going to be fine, to me,
S1: a positive attitude is like, Oh yeah, this sucks, but
S1: I'm here with you or this sucks, but.
S5: It's more of.
S3: A just a healthy attitude, right? Because it's not necessarily. Yeah.
S3: Positive situation.
S1: No, that's it. And it's not the situation. It's. Oh, like.
S1: I was going to say hope or optimism. And sometimes
S1: they're not even relevant, right? Because some situations you don't
S1: have any. It's just a matter of meeting yourself where
S1: you are. Yeah. But I think. For me, resilience is
S1: mostly achieved personally through. Letting things be what they are,
S1: whether that is hard or soft or, you know, difficult
S1: or easy. And allowing that to be the case, particularly
S1: in the instance of difficult things going, okay, this is hard.
S1: This is really hard, This hurts. I'm in pain. I'm struggling,
S1: I'm grieving. I'm, you know, afraid, whatever. And just softening
S1: into that. Not trying to change it. And for me,
S1: that kind of helps in multiple ways. It almost reduces the.
S1: Amount of time I spend in that space. Because it
S1: reduces the pressure around it or something. I don't I
S1: don't know. I can kind of picture it, but I
S1: can't use the words trying to reflect about when my
S1: dad was in hospital and we just allowed things to.
S5: Suck to be.
S1: And they sucked. But they also didn't because we laughed
S1: a lot. And I think that if I had tried
S1: to tell myself that it didn't suck and everything was
S1: going to be fine, just.
S3: That positive, toxic positivity.
S1: Then we wouldn't have laughed because.
S3: You would just be living a non.
S5: Credible way.
S3: Of living.
S1: Just be in that shell.
S5: It's not.
S3: You. Yeah.
S1: Anyway, I think it's such a great question.
S3: It's a huge it's a huge question. It probably requires
S3: more than what we've given it. But it is such
S3: an interesting premise, and that's what happens when you brand something.
S3: And that branding. Just gets used so much that it
S3: loses its actual meaning and its actual purpose.
S6: Hmm.
S3: I want to go back to self-help really quickly. Care sorry, self-care.
S3: I want to go back to self-care really quickly. So
S3: just thought of something that I really want to try.
S3: And that's and I've done it before, but some sort
S3: of martial arts that combines mental and physical.
S5: Health.
S3: The limited amount that I've done it, I feel like
S3: it really benefited me. So that's another one to add
S3: to the list.
S5: Okay.
S3: A martial arts and meditation.
S1: Okay. What I will say before we finish up, they're
S1: both things that take time. No, no, I'm all for it. Like,
S1: take that time. Yeah. Is there anything I suppose we
S1: already spoke about, you know, ritual izing, things that you
S1: already do and reflecting on them as being.
S5: I need to.
S3: Reframe those as forms of self-care and be easier on myself.
S5: Yes, please.
S3: Yeah. Please think over overall.
S5: Uh, yeah.
S1: Yeah, I guess that's maybe the takeaway. If we can
S1: all reflect on the ways that we care for ourselves already.
S1: And we all do in loads of different ways, all day,
S1: every day and take a bit of pride in that. Yeah.
S1: And that might just be the thing that we need
S1: to do in order to reframe it, as you said.
S1: And when we start paying attention to things, we have
S1: to do them more. You know? Yeah, we do. Yeah.
S5: Yeah.
S1: So if you start paying attention to how you breathe,
S1: for example, and you're like, I'm just going to take
S1: a big, deep breath. And see how that feels and
S1: you pay attention to it throughout the day. You're going
S1: to do more of it. Yeah. So maybe that's that's
S1: the takeaway is, is first of all, just start by
S1: making a list of all the ways that we do
S1: care for ourselves.
S3: Because often it's a lot more than you even realize. Yeah.
S5: All right. Thanks for the chat.
S1: Thank you for the chat. You know, I've got to
S1: be honest, I was. It's been a day. And I was.
S3: Nervous about how we would.
S5: Yeah.
S1: Wondering if we could bring the bring the right energy
S1: to the.
S5: I think we have Mike.
S1: Yeah, I think so.
S3: Hope you have enjoyed it. Dear listener. Thank you once
S3: again for all those that have left comments and reviews
S3: on Apple, Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get this podcast from.
S3: Very much appreciated. And also over on the Tortoise, the
S3: the comments, it's essentially what drives us to keep going.
S1: Oh, 100%.
S5: Like.
S3: The feedback. I don't read it. But Brooke. Often says, Oh,
S3: listen to this, and that just fills my cup. And that's,
S3: I'd say 50% of why I do this.
S1: That external validation.
S5: Yeah, it's important.
S1: You know what? And it comes from community, right?
S3: That's it.
S1: That's it. It comes from.
S5: People being.
S3: Valued.
S1: Yeah. And also, you know, just being surrounded in an
S1: Internet sense by, by a group of people who get
S1: it and they're wanting to ask the same questions and
S1: have the same conversations. And, you know, we're all exploring.
S1: What living outside the status quo looks like. In any
S1: given moment, you know, in lots of different tiny ways.
S1: It's really is what I think this podcast is kind
S1: of becoming about.
S3: It's all about.
S1: Questioning things and looking at the possibilities of what Slo
S1: can be.
S3: And I hope that this podcast has been a form
S3: of self-care. Absolutely. In a very meta universe way.
S1: So head on over to the tortoise to read the
S1: show notes for today's episode. So that's Brooklyn calorie.substack.com. And
S1: if you're interested in joining us for the writing. A
S1: self-care retreat. You can do that over there as well.
S1: In the meantime, though. Take good care of yourself.
UU: And we'll see you soon.