Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff
Speaker 1: I never told you protection of iHeartRadio, and.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to another edition a feminist Movie Friday. And
Speaker 2: I think it is actually going to be released on
Speaker 2: Friday this time because I'm actually doing work this time.
Speaker 3: Annie, aren't you proud?
Speaker 1: I am very happy?
Speaker 2: But yes, so if you're listening as it's released, it'll
Speaker 2: be a Friday. If you waited to listen to on
Speaker 2: a Friday, Happy Friday. If not, it's just a feminist
Speaker 2: movie day.
Speaker 1: You're welcome any day, any day.
Speaker 3: It's a feminist movie day, as it should be.
Speaker 2: But we're back, and this time we're back with an
Speaker 2: oldie but a goodie.
Speaker 3: Uh. And it is.
Speaker 2: Something that we were talking about previously because it was
Speaker 2: one of those Annie, you've never watched this what conversations
Speaker 2: And we were talking about Friday Green Tomatoes or also
Speaker 2: called fried green Tomatoes at the whistle Stop Cafe. So
Speaker 2: other places are they do the full title And we're
Speaker 2: gonna go ahead and add some warnings to this one.
Speaker 2: This was released in nineteen ninety one and is based
Speaker 2: in Alabama slash Georgia in the nineteen thirties, so has
Speaker 2: a lot of offensive, outdated content. Outdated as in like
Speaker 2: it's not acceptable today, but was portrayed as it would
Speaker 2: have been in the nineteen thirties.
Speaker 3: So there's that.
Speaker 2: It depicts racism, white supremacy, murder, death, cannibalism, and abuse,
Speaker 2: So there's a lot. This is definitely one of those
Speaker 2: movies that like kind of borders on being Southern Gothic.
Speaker 2: It's definitely Southern Tales, I guess, and it's reminiscent to
Speaker 2: me of someone like Carson McCullers would have written. Actually,
Speaker 2: I read a fact that the Harper Lee fra who
Speaker 2: wrote To Kill Mocking Bart loved, loved, loved this book
Speaker 2: and really felt it was a great book. So I
Speaker 2: was like, Oh, if I was the author Fanny Flag,
Speaker 2: I would have taken that quote and framed it if
Speaker 2: harperly said that I wrote an amazing book.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 3: So about the movie.
Speaker 2: This was based on the nineteen eighty seven book by
Speaker 2: Fanny Flagg titled Fried Green Tomatoes at the Whistle Stop Cafe,
Speaker 2: and she and Carol Sibiski wrote the screenplay for this movie.
Speaker 2: The movie was directed by John Avnett, who read the
Speaker 2: book in nineteen eighty seven, took it to producers, was like, oh,
Speaker 2: this needs to be a movie, and it was nominated
Speaker 2: for a couple of Academy Awards. It did not win,
Speaker 2: but it did win a glad Award, which is interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because we're gonna talk about this, people already know. I know,
Speaker 2: y'all already know. For those of you who have seen
Speaker 2: Fried Green Tomatoes who like or love this movie or book,
Speaker 2: you already know why. But there's a lot of debate
Speaker 2: and we're going to jump into it. But first let's
Speaker 2: talk about the movie. So the characters include Kathy Bates
Speaker 2: as Evelyn Couch, Jessica Handy Rip she was a Real
Speaker 2: one for Real as Ninny thread Good, Mary Louise Parker
Speaker 2: as Ruth Jamison, Mary Masterson as Itchy thread Good or
Speaker 2: Imma Jean thread Good, Ciccily Tyson as Sipsy stan Shaw
Speaker 2: as Big George my childhood love, Chris o'donald as the
Speaker 2: short lived character of a Buddy thread Good. Yes, I
Speaker 2: mentioned him because I love him. I loved him from
Speaker 2: a circle of friends. Have you ever seen this movie? Annie?
Speaker 1: Oh no, but I'm so curious. I had a brief
Speaker 1: crush on him too. This is interesting.
Speaker 2: Love love love, so a circle of friends. I know
Speaker 2: we're not talking about. It is based on a book
Speaker 2: by Irish author May Benchi who I loved the book
Speaker 2: and I loved this movie. Minnie Driver became my favorite.
Speaker 2: I think she was my woman crush m M as
Speaker 2: a kid too, because she was so fantastic in this movie.
Speaker 2: They were that might be another movie. We have to visit,
Speaker 2: Annie because I loved it so much.
Speaker 3: Anyway.
Speaker 2: It is based in Ireland in nineteen fifties, essay, I think,
Speaker 2: But that's why I first saw Chris O'donnald was like, yes, please.
Speaker 1: That's much less embarrassing mine, which is Batman and Robin Forever.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to ignore those days.
Speaker 1: And I had a crush on it. It's very, very embarrassing,
Speaker 1: but I'll share it.
Speaker 2: Oh. I mean, that's an iconic movie because you had
Speaker 2: all the characters, all the actors and all the characters
Speaker 2: at least a Silverstone as Batgirl.
Speaker 3: The one and only time that was featured.
Speaker 1: The puns, the puns. I even knew. I loved puns
Speaker 1: so much. I think it was like touching. It was
Speaker 1: resonating with something in my brain.
Speaker 2: This was the George Clooney version, right, I just remember Robin.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie I can't even remember who the
Speaker 2: Batman was because in my head it was but like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's definitely one of those infamous like.
Speaker 1: Oh oh, okay, oh the puns.
Speaker 3: We're talking about. It was so good and bad at
Speaker 3: the same time.
Speaker 2: But yeah, so there you go. We're now just talking
Speaker 2: about Chris O'Donnell. I loved him. I loved him.
Speaker 1: This was him, So this is great.
Speaker 3: Did you did you not realize that was him?
Speaker 1: I watched it, Yeah, so a lot of I just
Speaker 1: watched it this morning, okay, and a lot of the
Speaker 1: actors are just so much younger than things I've seen them,
Speaker 1: and that's true that I was like, I know I've
Speaker 1: seen you before, yeah, but I don't know where.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So my partner watched it with me, and when when
Speaker 2: Mary Louise Parker came on, he's like, that's the woman
Speaker 2: from wis, Like, yeah, this is one of her, not
Speaker 2: first roles, but like one of the beginnings of a role.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: Mary Stuart Masterson were like the teen stars of the nineties.
Speaker 2: I was like, because he was like, is she in
Speaker 2: a lot of things? Mary Stuart Masterson. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: she was really big in the nineties. You just didn't
Speaker 2: know because you it's so much older than I'm still
Speaker 2: talking and it makes me sad anyway, and I'm reminiscing
Speaker 2: it's fine, but yes, So there's some of the characters.
Speaker 2: We're not mentioning all of them, but those are the
Speaker 2: main ones to remember, including remembering that Chris o'donnald Yes
Speaker 2: was indeed in there, and they all have really unfortunate accents,
Speaker 2: except for Jessica Tandy as well as uh Cicely Tyson,
Speaker 2: the only two. And the whole part to this to
Speaker 2: me was like every time we were watching that and
Speaker 2: that this love of trainings are like, whyhould they love
Speaker 2: training so much?
Speaker 3: It does not seem to be like.
Speaker 1: Go near her train.
Speaker 3: Inevitably someone's gonn get rid of number. But yeah, so
Speaker 3: let's jump into the flat.
Speaker 2: We were introduced to Evelyn, who's going with her husband
Speaker 2: to a nursing home to see his aunt, who obviously
Speaker 2: does not like either one of them. But they stop
Speaker 2: in a small town called whistle Stop, which has actually
Speaker 2: been run down and abandoned at this point. Apparently it's
Speaker 2: based out of Juliette Georgia. I don't know where that
Speaker 2: is twenty minutes outside of Macon and interesting, and there
Speaker 2: she meets Ninny Threadgood, who starts just telling her all
Speaker 2: these amazing stories. It's really fun to be because you
Speaker 2: do have those moments where people just start talking and
Speaker 2: you're like, what, what's happening, what's happening and it ends
Speaker 2: up being amazing. And here we see that happening. And
Speaker 2: she talks about her life in her hometown, whistle Stop,
Speaker 2: which she's like, have you ever been there? She's like,
Speaker 2: actually I have, And a beautiful friendship begins as Nini
Speaker 2: starts her tales of Igy and Ruth. So let's talk
Speaker 2: about Igy and Ruth, because we have a flash back
Speaker 2: and forth throughout this movie.
Speaker 3: So it begins with, yes, the death of Buddy, who
Speaker 3: is the love and of everyone's life.
Speaker 2: It sounds like, to be honest, we see him coming
Speaker 2: in and obviously a big wedding is about to happen.
Speaker 2: They introduce Iggy as a as a child, and she
Speaker 2: is obvious a tomboy character with scrapes on her knees.
Speaker 2: Her younger brother teases her, making her attack him, runs
Speaker 2: out the door. Dear buddy has to be the one
Speaker 2: to calm her down, and you can tell this is
Speaker 2: her favorite person in the whole wide world as they
Speaker 2: cling to each other. He is a handsome man again,
Speaker 2: teasing and flirting with everyone.
Speaker 3: But there's only one love and.
Speaker 2: It's Ruth who we see together. And we can tell
Speaker 2: that Agy loves Ruth too, So this is the perfect threesomes.
Speaker 2: They're going as they're enjoying their day, and I've I'm
Speaker 2: thinking several things about this. As they're enjoying their day.
Speaker 2: Her hat, Ruth's hat flies off and he goes to
Speaker 2: retrieve it and he gets stuck in the train and
Speaker 2: as he's trying to jump away, Oh, he dies once again.
Speaker 1: Yep, his shoe gets Okay, okay, can I preface this.
Speaker 1: I want to say something here. I have never seen
Speaker 1: this movie. I had an idea of what it was,
Speaker 1: and it was like older women having fun being older women.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I thought that, but that's what
Speaker 1: I thought. It what it was, And I'm going into
Speaker 1: this movie. The first like fifteen minutes, this guy gets
Speaker 1: his shoe stuck in the train track and it's all
Speaker 1: building of tension, building of tension and I'm like, oh, Shirley, Shirley,
Speaker 1: He'll get away, and then it shows him kind of
Speaker 1: like get out of the shoe and jump away, and
Speaker 1: I thought, oh, I made it. No, I did No.
Speaker 1: I was like, what movie is this?
Speaker 2: Well, a Symple article comes out with being a dark comedy,
Speaker 2: so like it's consideral times.
Speaker 1: I was like, this is sort of.
Speaker 2: A horror movie, right, think of it as this was
Speaker 2: at least two years after still Magnolia's and so it
Speaker 2: kind of along those same lines, a lot of like
Speaker 2: heart wrenching moments but funny too. So this is this
Speaker 2: was the nineties formula that they had, and this is
Speaker 2: like the wholesome but not wholesome like cannibalism. I'm like,
Speaker 2: what the hell I know I will be and everybody
Speaker 2: was laughing.
Speaker 3: Apparently.
Speaker 1: I was like, well, okay, okay, my stomach course churning.
Speaker 2: I said something at one point to my partner again
Speaker 2: who was watching with me, and he's like, don't do
Speaker 2: that to me. I was like, don't do what he does,
Speaker 2: and he will be fine.
Speaker 3: Just kidding out, y'all.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be on so many lists, but yeah, so
Speaker 2: does not take this well nobody does really, but really
Speaker 2: becomes more reclusive, saying and they say that the only
Speaker 2: person who can get close to her is Big George.
Speaker 2: And eventually she grows up and she has more rebellious
Speaker 2: hanging out the raw places, drinking and gambling, and there's
Speaker 2: some loose women, all these things, even yelling at the preacher,
Speaker 2: Oh my god. And so essentially Ruth comes back to
Speaker 2: try to help her her. The mama comes and calls
Speaker 2: Ruth to help her out. She's like, I can't do
Speaker 2: anything about it, but you can. And at this point
Speaker 2: a beautiful relationship starts and blossoms.
Speaker 3: Here.
Speaker 2: I like to emphasize as a kid, when I was
Speaker 2: watching this, because I was old enough to watch, it's
Speaker 2: like it was one of those PG movies because PG
Speaker 2: thirteen hadn't happened yet. I think it's nineteen ninety one,
Speaker 2: so you tell me. But like it came out and
Speaker 2: you get the rentals, and I watched it.
Speaker 3: I did not catch any of the sexual overtones. I'm
Speaker 3: just like, oh, they really love each other as in
Speaker 3: friends and sisters.
Speaker 2: Like, as I'm watching it this time around, I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of lingering looks here, which we'll talk
Speaker 2: about a little more. But they purposely did this, we'll
Speaker 2: talk about that as well. They just really dialed it
Speaker 2: down a lot or almost try to make it like
Speaker 2: if people are offended by it, they can ignore it.
Speaker 2: So they wanted to make sure it was successful, and
Speaker 2: it was. But here we see their their relationship blossom
Speaker 2: and there get closed. They you know, Igy shows off
Speaker 2: her kind side as she donates food from the train,
Speaker 2: which she loves, and they're on and they're okay to
Speaker 2: jump out of it. I'm like, again, okay, whatever, y'all
Speaker 2: really like this train thing. As they do all those
Speaker 2: things and get closer at one point on this adventure,
Speaker 2: because Ruth does not give up, she goes to a
Speaker 2: swarm of like a bee hive, charms the bees and
Speaker 2: gets a jar of honey, which, by the way, Stuart
Speaker 2: Masterson did that herself. She actually did that because the
Speaker 2: stunt person quit when she found out she had to
Speaker 2: do that scene fair So Mary Stuart Masterson was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I got it, and she did it, and it's a
Speaker 2: beautiful scene in which earns her the title or the
Speaker 2: nickname the bee Charmer or the bee Trauma.
Speaker 3: As I kept saying.
Speaker 1: The southern accents.
Speaker 3: I get it.
Speaker 2: It's hard, but well, yeah, So all this happens and
Speaker 2: then Ruth says she's getting married.
Speaker 3: Kind of sad moment.
Speaker 2: Ruth leaves and it she just does her thing. And
Speaker 2: there's an implication here because it you refused goes through
Speaker 2: the wedding as well, but again not a lot of
Speaker 2: like lingering, heartbreak or anything, just like, oh why are
Speaker 2: you doing that?
Speaker 1: Okay? Gone.
Speaker 2: We see Ruth going into the house with her new husband,
Speaker 2: and Ruth's mom comes with him as well. Itji goes
Speaker 2: to check up on her and finds that Ruth is
Speaker 2: not in a good situation as she's being abused, but
Speaker 2: she Ruth said, don't worry about it, go away, go away,
Speaker 2: So she goes away until she gets a letter from
Speaker 2: Ruth saying that come and get her. Essentially, it was
Speaker 2: code for please come and get me. I will go
Speaker 2: where you go, essentially, which is a biblical verse. And
Speaker 2: part of that is because she found out she was pregnant. Also,
Speaker 2: her mother had died, so she was alone and did
Speaker 2: not want to raise this child with him. It was
Speaker 2: severely violent, so Itgi goes to get her and fam
Speaker 2: so big George comes and her her brother had come
Speaker 2: to rescue her, but a big violent incident happens. I
Speaker 2: was like, damn, they went all in on the scene.
Speaker 1: I thought I thought she was gonna die. I was dead.
Speaker 2: And the fact that the men never do anything it
Speaker 2: was kind of interesting other than threatening them, because I'm like,
Speaker 2: why did like somebody go and at least punch them?
Speaker 3: But okay, that's fine.
Speaker 2: So but they get away and Ruth and Igy are
Speaker 2: happy starting their own cafe, Whistlestop Cafe with the infamous
Speaker 2: fried green tomatoes. I'm really hungry right now, I do
Speaker 2: and a shout out to my favorite restaurant not a sponsor,
Speaker 2: Heirloom Barbecue, who was run by a Korean woman and
Speaker 2: her white husband and has some of the best barbecue
Speaker 2: and the best fried green tomatoes. But it's only seasonal
Speaker 2: and you have to watch out on Instagram to see
Speaker 2: what they fry up.
Speaker 3: But I want some.
Speaker 2: Anyway anyway, Okay, back to of course, we come back
Speaker 2: in between these stories to see Evelyn's life. Evelyn, who
Speaker 2: we kept originated with, has been trying to navigate her
Speaker 2: unhappy life, trying to get her husband to pay attention
Speaker 2: to her her finding her confidence and figuring out how
Speaker 2: to navigate it. As like at one point there an
Speaker 2: article that talks about how feminism is coming into play,
Speaker 2: because we do see her going from both how to
Speaker 2: be sexually happy classes like how to satisfy your man,
Speaker 2: and we see the infamous saran rap scene. I say
Speaker 2: that's where it really began, because I know there's been jokes,
Speaker 2: but I want to say that's where it originated. Standing
Speaker 2: at the door waiting for your husband and only in
Speaker 2: saran raping heels.
Speaker 3: I think that's where it originated.
Speaker 1: My gosh, I wish I could captured my response to
Speaker 1: this whole movie. I didn't know any of this was
Speaker 1: gonna happen. I was like, whoa, I've never heard of that.
Speaker 1: I had a wild morning.
Speaker 3: They were like going through all the all the roller
Speaker 3: coasters here. I should have warned you. I thought you
Speaker 3: knew about it.
Speaker 1: No, I didn't know about this, man.
Speaker 3: I should have warned you that it is dark. Okay,
Speaker 3: my bad.
Speaker 2: On that one.
Speaker 3: I filled on hit this one.
Speaker 2: And then the other scene to that was like the
Speaker 2: feminist scene where they're able to look at their own vagina,
Speaker 2: and apparently Fanny flag was in that scene, like the
Speaker 2: author made a cameo and that's not her for time
Speaker 2: in a movie. So the facts you should know, facts
Speaker 2: you didn't know.
Speaker 3: There you go, there you go.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that in ofa scene which they're talking about
Speaker 2: looking at their own vaginas.
Speaker 3: I remember that scene going like.
Speaker 2: What very because like they all were removing their underwear
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, oh as a group, Okay,
Speaker 2: that's that's the thing.
Speaker 3: But the whole idea of like feminism coming up.
Speaker 2: But she didn't feel like she could fit in that either,
Speaker 2: so she didn't know where she fit in anymore. And
Speaker 2: then but she's still visiting uh Nini throughout this time,
Speaker 2: and she's growing more confident hearing these inspiring, brave stories
Speaker 2: about ag and Ruth that she's really like, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2: Even at one point again screaming Towanda as she got
Speaker 2: back at a couple of rude girls who had stole
Speaker 2: in her parking spot. You know, because the girls are
Speaker 2: like just face it, lady, or younger and pretty or
Speaker 2: younger and faster. So that's how because she they had
Speaker 2: stolen her parking spot that she'd patiently wait for, and yeah,
Speaker 2: that causes road rage people, so you know, and so
Speaker 2: her response was Towanda as she starts ramming it because
Speaker 2: the story is that Igy was screamed Towanda as she
Speaker 2: did something brave, and I'm still trying to figureut where
Speaker 2: t Towanda came from. So if someone knows, because that's
Speaker 2: not Iggy's name, who the hell is Towanda.
Speaker 1: I The vibe I got was it was sort of like,
Speaker 1: because it was frank, right, I asked her her name, yeah,
Speaker 1: and she clearly could pick up on this guy is
Speaker 1: a douchebag and was like, it's Towanda, and it was
Speaker 1: just sort of a I'm not going to give you
Speaker 1: my name.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, maybe that's what it is. Because I was
Speaker 3: very confused.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, it could still him, it
Speaker 1: could be anything, but that was what I picked up.
Speaker 1: I just like she was just giving clearly a fake.
Speaker 2: Name and did not care, which is quoted in different
Speaker 2: movies They'll scream Twanta. I believe Tyler Perry parodied that
Speaker 2: the six scene as well.
Speaker 1: Essentially, I had a thought about that within Spider Verse
Speaker 1: when Gwyn panics she gives the name Gwanda. So I
Speaker 1: don't know. I was just kind of like, oh, I
Speaker 1: wonder if that was an influence.
Speaker 2: It could have been, but yeah, so something like that.
Speaker 2: She runs into the car and then she lives with
Speaker 2: a face of girls, I'm older and have better insurance
Speaker 2: or more insurance, and then she walks away and I'm like,
Speaker 2: there you go. But yes, we see how her confidence
Speaker 2: coming back or coming round. So we go back to
Speaker 2: Ruth and Igy, Yes, and the return of bad husband Frank,
Speaker 2: who of course is in the KKK.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Immediately he comes back to pretty much find them. He
Speaker 2: tortures Big George later on tries to kidnap the baby,
Speaker 2: but Jark got smacked in the head and died and
Speaker 2: then served up as barbecue.
Speaker 1: To the like guy trying to figure out who did it.
Speaker 2: Veryantly, right, Yeah, so the GBA guy comes through to
Speaker 2: solve the murder, but enjoying that barbecue.
Speaker 3: Surege does like that barbecue. All the people did.
Speaker 2: And after some years of the car that he had
Speaker 2: driven Frank had driven is discovered because there's too much
Speaker 2: training and flooded out, and then they officially arrest Edgy
Speaker 2: as well as Big George for the murder of Frank,
Speaker 2: and a trial occurs but the reverend, who she's been
Speaker 2: teasing the entire time, gets on the stand, lies about
Speaker 2: where she was and giving her an alibi and getting
Speaker 2: out of trouble, and she and George are cleared. Turns
Speaker 2: out he had uh used moby Dick instead of the
Speaker 2: Bible to swear on, and that he had he had
Speaker 2: made a deal with Ruth that ich you would come
Speaker 2: to church.
Speaker 3: So there's that.
Speaker 2: We discovered later that it was actually it was actually
Speaker 2: Sipsy played by Cicily Tyson, who had accidentally killed Ed
Speaker 2: trying to defend everyone and get back the baby, and
Speaker 2: it was Igy's idea to make him into barbecue, which
Speaker 2: everybody again apparely loved because everyone's like, that sure does
Speaker 2: smell good.
Speaker 1: I this made me think about a lot of stuff, Samantha.
Speaker 1: I was like, how many revenge plots involved feeding the
Speaker 1: person to other people? But also like big Jories seemed
Speaker 1: to know how to.
Speaker 3: Short She was like, we need to boil the hog.
Speaker 1: Boil the hog, which I totally get, like the Southern
Speaker 1: Gothic like, don't ask him any questions, but I don't ask,
Speaker 1: but it was.
Speaker 2: Just happens and it gets handled.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's what happens.
Speaker 2: And in between all this, Evelyn continues to grow in
Speaker 2: her confidence, even stands up to ed her husband, who
Speaker 2: was like really condescending and you want to smack.
Speaker 3: Him, but kind of the nineties version of a husband
Speaker 3: of the typical husband. So it wasn't too far off.
Speaker 3: I've seen this. I've seen this.
Speaker 2: And she's still visiting Ninny, who tells her the rest
Speaker 2: of the story. Ruth and Igy have been living a
Speaker 2: good life as soon Ruth was diagnosed with cancer and
Speaker 2: she dies very tragic of course.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: Oh, and I've seen people talk about about the saddest
Speaker 2: death scene.
Speaker 1: Again, I was like, wait, what, I got to go
Speaker 1: record something.
Speaker 2: Sorry, sorry, And that's kind of how the story ends. Apparently,
Speaker 2: like the town essentially shut down. She said that they
Speaker 2: made the statement that, you know, they really felt that
Speaker 2: the whist Stop Cafe was the heart of the town,
Speaker 2: and when it shut down, the little area of town
Speaker 2: shut down as well. And here we find that as
Speaker 2: Evelyn and Nannie come to the conclusion of the story,
Speaker 2: Nannie has left the nursing home after going through a
Speaker 2: lot of like did she die? I know, everybody loses
Speaker 2: it for a minute, but she doesn't. She ends up
Speaker 2: leaving because the person she was with had passed away,
Speaker 2: so she didn't need to be there. She went to
Speaker 2: her home and found that her home was demolished because
Speaker 2: it had been condemned, but no one had told her
Speaker 2: or she was waiting for it. But Evelyn goes and
Speaker 2: explains everything and then invites her to live with her
Speaker 2: and Ed, and we see the ending scene with ruth
Speaker 2: gravestone that has a jar of honey and a note
Speaker 2: from the beach armor. Again that inside joke, and then
Speaker 2: then we see Nannie and Evelyn look at each other like, oh,
Speaker 2: she's here, She's still alive. And then there's still insinuation
Speaker 2: that maybe Nannie was it gy again. We're gonna come
Speaker 2: back to this because that's a hot topic debate and
Speaker 2: I have thoughts. So, yeah, that's the movie. I'm sorry
Speaker 2: that I didn't tell you that it was a tragic comedy.
Speaker 1: That's okay, it was. It was a fun ride.
Speaker 3: I was like, wait, a good track comedy.
Speaker 1: Good train. We didn't even talk about this. There's a
Speaker 1: scene where you think Ruth's son, Yes, has died by
Speaker 1: train and he did lose an arm. But I'm sitting
Speaker 1: here like this train is gonna go, which it eventually does,
Speaker 1: but it's implied that the train leaves was also part
Speaker 1: of why it closed.
Speaker 2: Yes, which is actually something that really does happen. I know,
Speaker 2: like when the train stops going through areas to bring
Speaker 2: supplies or like it takes a lot of jobs away.
Speaker 2: It takes a lot of supplies away. It happened actually
Speaker 2: in my hometown. I don't know if I ever told
Speaker 2: you that my grandfather had invested in an area and
Speaker 2: bottle land and all these things in Lumber and a
Speaker 2: lumber area because there was train tracks and there were
Speaker 2: supposed to be a train that went through and then
Speaker 2: last minute it didn't and so he lost that business
Speaker 2: and everything failed because of that. But there's this train
Speaker 2: track that has never been used that goes through my hometown.
Speaker 1: Wow, I mean yeah, that's it was very sad at
Speaker 1: the end when Ninny was, you know, sitting on our
Speaker 1: suitcase and staring at this thing and this whole town
Speaker 1: is completely empty.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that it's true that does happen. There are
Speaker 1: real towns you can visit like that that are just
Speaker 1: completely abandoned, that were built around certain things that aren't there. Anymore,
Speaker 1: don't run anymore. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So there is a Whistletown Cafe in Kennesau, Georgia, right
Speaker 2: across from one of the most racist places that you
Speaker 2: can go to, ran by a man who is a racist,
Speaker 2: and he proudly claims to be because he has all
Speaker 2: his confaberate flags with a no certain people who can
Speaker 2: enter his store. Oh a sign that says it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. If people know Kennesau, they know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: Uh Andy, He's been on the news media times.
Speaker 3: But yeah, but that exists.
Speaker 2: I know in Macon, I think there's a whistle Stop
Speaker 2: cafe as well, or Valdosta. It may be Valdosta because
Speaker 2: Valdosta has mentioned several times in the in the movie.
Speaker 2: And then the original Alabama place I think has a
Speaker 2: cafe like it that was based on that. This yeah,
Speaker 2: this cafe was based on So there you go. If
Speaker 2: you want to risk going to the South like that, look,
Speaker 2: go for it. I don't know anything about the businesses,
Speaker 2: so I can't that, but it's always.
Speaker 1: In my world.
Speaker 2: We're gonna talk about the themes a little bit. The
Speaker 2: first thing is family, because we start out with Buddy
Speaker 2: and in your chosen family, I think we were talking
Speaker 2: a lot, a little bit more about like friends and
Speaker 2: lovers essentially, But yeah, we see how AGI's connected her family,
Speaker 2: her mama. She doesn't get enough shout Outg's mama really
Speaker 2: was there for her, and in the book, her mama
Speaker 2: and her family are very supportive of IG's lifestyle, which
Speaker 2: we're going to get into in a minute, which is
Speaker 2: unusual and a lot of people said that it's not believable,
Speaker 2: especially if from the location and timing of when the
Speaker 2: book was based on. But yeah, I felt like that
Speaker 2: was really sweet. The Buddy Junior, the connection between Itgy
Speaker 2: and Buddy junr who she raised after Ruth dies. You know,
Speaker 2: you can see that same connection that Ruth had with
Speaker 2: Igy as she was growing up.
Speaker 1: That changed a little bit, though, I yues mm hmm,
Speaker 1: I think so U.
Speaker 2: And then that whole small town community phil that has
Speaker 2: each other's back, obviously the Reverend coming through saving them
Speaker 2: in the end, even though no one knew the truth.
Speaker 3: Except Sipsy Big George.
Speaker 2: We didn't really talk about Smokey, who was the alcoholic
Speaker 2: who they took care of a lot, and he had
Speaker 2: a crush and was in love with Ruth. Apparently so
Speaker 2: I was trying to defend well he would have he
Speaker 2: was a good guy anyway, but like was defending her.
Speaker 3: Those four of them were the.
Speaker 2: Only ones who knew what happened, and they never even
Speaker 2: told Ruth, and everybody suspected that it was Igy because
Speaker 2: she has a temper.
Speaker 1: And she had threatened to kill him in front of people.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah right. So the framing was also interesting because
Speaker 1: the way, like when you lay it out, oh okay,
Speaker 1: we know who did it, and when you're watching it,
Speaker 1: you don't find that till out till the end, so
Speaker 1: you're kind of like, oh, who could it be? But yeah, there.
Speaker 1: I think there's a really sweet beat too, between Buddy
Speaker 1: having all of these stories that he would tell, uh,
Speaker 1: he would tell Ruth, and he would tell Iggy, and
Speaker 1: then Igy later telling those two Buddy Junior, and then
Speaker 1: that being Ruth's like last request is please just tell
Speaker 1: me the story. I know it's a lie, but just
Speaker 1: tell me the story.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So that was a really I mean painful but like
Speaker 1: a good through line of you know, his influences, his influence,
Speaker 1: and that's what it started with, was like, we can't
Speaker 1: tell her story without talking about how important.
Speaker 2: He was right, and it's very Southern, this whole like
Speaker 2: Southern culture of passing down tall tales essentially, and that
Speaker 2: happens throughout well we're being a good storyteller. That there's
Speaker 2: something to be in a good storyteller in the South.
Speaker 2: I grew up with that, knowing that there are certain
Speaker 2: people you knew would entertain you with whatever story. I
Speaker 2: have so many family members who can do this that
Speaker 2: they want you to repeat that story repeatedly throughout the
Speaker 2: years because it's so funny because of the way you
Speaker 2: talk about it. And then Jessica Tandy's character Nini does that.
Speaker 2: So it's like a whole through line in general about
Speaker 2: the legacy of storytelling and like opening up people's eyes
Speaker 2: and like feeling involved and or changing moods or you know,
Speaker 2: like really influencing individuals. So yeah, for sure, that's a
Speaker 2: huge part of that, and it is a huge part
Speaker 2: of like Southern culture. And I'm sure it's bigger than
Speaker 2: that when we look into it, because we know that's
Speaker 2: how legacies are are taught. That's a native like indigenous
Speaker 2: people to do this, the Native first people, they have
Speaker 2: done this in order to keep their their traditions alive,
Speaker 2: so we know that's the thing for for all.
Speaker 3: Specific cultures like that. But the way that this happened
Speaker 3: with the Tall Tales.
Speaker 2: We see that as well as an influence in this movie.
Speaker 2: And then yeah, we'll come to the love friendship because again,
Speaker 2: like I said, I was like, uh, yoh oh. So
Speaker 2: obviously we have to talk about Ruth and Igy again.
Speaker 2: In the book they are openly in a relationship. Actually
Speaker 2: they are out together.
Speaker 3: Everybody knew it.
Speaker 2: Again in fact, I g is out as a lesbian
Speaker 2: since she was young. The family and community had supported
Speaker 2: her and was accepting her, even to the point when
Speaker 2: Ruth came involved. Uh and and they were I guess
Speaker 2: initially getting together.
Speaker 3: Her father.
Speaker 2: Igi's father was like, do you understand what is the
Speaker 2: responsibility of taking care of a child as if she
Speaker 2: was she was. In the article I read it said
Speaker 2: man to man talk face sexist but like trying to
Speaker 2: like uh. In besides, is that her role their relationship
Speaker 2: role of what she would be. The way she dresses
Speaker 2: in the movie was very indicative of her being more
Speaker 2: masculine than not. But in the book it is outright
Speaker 2: said that she is a lesbian. Again, in the movie
Speaker 2: they took that all out and we don't see that
Speaker 2: because to the point that you don't even know if
Speaker 2: they're actually sharing houses and who's sharing houses with whom
Speaker 2: because at one point, I know, like Igi was living
Speaker 2: with Sipsy so and then they were talking about when
Speaker 2: Ruth got six, she moved to a different house.
Speaker 3: I was like, so what house? Wait, what where'd she go?
Speaker 1: Where's she at?
Speaker 2: And then you also have Itgy having relationships with men,
Speaker 2: the implication that she was having a relationships and men,
Speaker 2: and in the book, Ig is having relationships with women,
Speaker 2: and I think not prostitute, but like the woman in town,
Speaker 2: I don't know, the loose woman, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Oh no, I don't know.
Speaker 2: And this is what the like as I was reading
Speaker 2: the differences what they said totally, but they said that
Speaker 2: she wasn't exactly a prostitute though, but something something to
Speaker 2: that implication I see.
Speaker 3: I don't know in.
Speaker 2: The book, and those who read the book can probably
Speaker 2: clarify for us, because I have not read this book.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, I think this is an interesting perspective
Speaker 1: because I haven't read the book either, but I never
Speaker 1: seen the movie, but we did one of the reasons
Speaker 1: this came up was we did that episode on movies
Speaker 1: or entertainment that made you question, like if you're queer,
Speaker 1: and at the top we gave examples a lot of
Speaker 1: people listed, and one of them was Fried Green Tomatoes
Speaker 1: and I read an essay about it, and when I
Speaker 1: was watching it, so I guess I was coming in
Speaker 1: prime thinking, oh, they are because the essay was very
Speaker 1: much it brought up the book and it was very like,
Speaker 1: you know, see this is why and all this, and
Speaker 1: so I was watching it like you're giving me all
Speaker 1: the this is it's kind of sad. But I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't even see those modern movies. Look at how
Speaker 1: they are.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they really like they really played it up.
Speaker 2: The river scene as well was one of I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: now I see it, Like.
Speaker 3: When they were in the water together and they come
Speaker 3: out and they're like underclothes and it's they're they're not naked,
Speaker 3: they're fully dressed.
Speaker 2: It's just what it's like. But the way they're so
Speaker 2: they're like, oh there. It is the lingering look after
Speaker 2: she does the bee charming, the questions, the teasing that
Speaker 2: Itchy does with really it's like but again, the movie
Speaker 2: makers and producers made it safe enough that there was
Speaker 2: plausible deniability, which is sad, which is why I questioned
Speaker 2: the Glad Award. I get it, the queer people would
Speaker 2: definitely love this movie, but I wish it had been
Speaker 2: the one of those like they were outright saying it
Speaker 2: like it is now I think, but back then it wasn't.
Speaker 2: They were high, and they still got a Glad Award
Speaker 2: of like that hypocritical not from Glad but from the
Speaker 2: producers and the direction.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely like having your cake and eating
Speaker 1: too right situation. And it's also sad given what we've
Speaker 1: talked about before, where it's unfortunate that we can't Like
Speaker 1: there's a scene early on where I'm like, okay, Ruth
Speaker 1: is into buddy, yeah, but then she takes Itgy's hand
Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, right, but it should be. It's
Speaker 1: just it's sad we don't get enough depictions of platonic friendships,
Speaker 1: relationships of all all types that you know, it could
Speaker 1: have been, especially because they were trying to hide it,
Speaker 1: it could have been they were just good friends. And
Speaker 1: you know, right, that's fine, that's a great story. I'm
Speaker 1: all about female friendships exactly, but it does. It's kind
Speaker 1: of sad because I was like, oh no, I finally
Speaker 1: get to see this thing. But also I'm just it
Speaker 1: feels like erasing one thing for another thing. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I expecin right.
Speaker 2: Right right, there was this level like you want this
Speaker 2: to be both of those things, Like I grew up
Speaker 2: thinking it was about female friendship really gathering for each other,
Speaker 2: like the song.
Speaker 3: Are Almost Gotta Die.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, I'm pretty sure it's based on like
Speaker 2: the Fried Green Tomatoes friendship, but it's a friendship that's
Speaker 2: a friendship like that that you would do whatever you
Speaker 2: have to for your friend. But like, yeah, it's like
Speaker 2: could we not have both where this is this? But
Speaker 2: because you do want that queer love story that is
Speaker 2: so sweet and so endearing, but then you also want
Speaker 2: that friendship where you don't need that as well. And
Speaker 2: I know that's something that you deal with with your
Speaker 2: sexuality in general, specifically Annie, because like both of those
Speaker 2: things can exist in that level. But I found it
Speaker 2: funny because I did think about the courtroom scene where
Speaker 2: she's expresses because in my mind, I was like, why
Speaker 2: doesn't she just say he was abusive, but in that
Speaker 2: timeframe that wasn't seen as abusive. It was just keeping
Speaker 2: a woman in line kind of conversation. So and she says,
Speaker 2: she says I love her. That was that moment of like,
Speaker 2: but then she says she's my best friend, and then
Speaker 2: you're like, wait, okay. So it was that back and
Speaker 2: forth that tug right there too. They're like they want
Speaker 2: to put that in just in case.
Speaker 3: That people assume, and.
Speaker 2: But it can be both, right, it can be that's that,
Speaker 2: but that's that's the play. That's again that that straddling
Speaker 2: the fence that they do.
Speaker 1: I feel like there's a difference here between that of like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't want to outright say it because I'll lose
Speaker 1: money as a studio and it being you know, we
Speaker 1: have histories of like you know, Boston marriages or ways
Speaker 1: women would get married or live with each other because
Speaker 1: the time didn't allow it. But also sometimes a lot
Speaker 1: of times I would hope the person you love is
Speaker 1: your best friend, right, right, So it's it's it's complicated,
Speaker 1: like there's a lot to unpack with that, right.
Speaker 2: And again, this is ninety one. It was starting to
Speaker 2: become more open, but still very fresh, so so many things. Well,
Speaker 2: remember eighties had a lot of scare with HIV, which
Speaker 2: is a lot of fear mongering and a lot of
Speaker 2: going after the gay community. They purposely were demonizing gay
Speaker 2: communities with this. So it's this level like Okay, I
Speaker 2: see what you're doing. But at the same time, why
Speaker 2: did you take the glad Award?
Speaker 3: Like everything right?
Speaker 2: You know, like okay, okay, because the book was explicit,
Speaker 2: so you altered it if you If you altered it,
Speaker 2: you had.
Speaker 3: A reason too, right.
Speaker 2: But again, that's one of those things I go back
Speaker 2: and forth on as again, and I would not have
Speaker 2: been allowed to see that movie had they been a
Speaker 2: gay relationship, I will say that, And that's part of
Speaker 2: the reason.
Speaker 3: I'm sure why they did this.
Speaker 1: Yeah it is, but it was to me watching it
Speaker 1: from my standpoint and being like, wow, they.
Speaker 2: Are they love each other just kids already.
Speaker 1: They have a whole scene or they're like throwing food
Speaker 1: at each other face erotic.
Speaker 2: Those two scenes I'm telling you, and the other friendship
Speaker 2: because I can't go away from the fact that Nannie
Speaker 2: and Evelyn as they grow in their friendship is beautiful.
Speaker 2: Nani's hitting her so much as she's talking about confidence
Speaker 2: because I just say hit.
Speaker 3: At one point, she's like, I think she might have
Speaker 3: killed her husband. I think she's together. The story a
Speaker 3: little too hard.
Speaker 2: Someone check on her, please, Yeah, but it was I
Speaker 2: love the friendship Jessica Tandy. She was already thought of
Speaker 2: for this movie, that she was already going to be cast,
Speaker 2: and apparently she loved this role and everything about it.
Speaker 2: Maybe the first time I seen her Kathy Bass was
Speaker 2: in Misery. So Misery was nineteen ninety and then this
Speaker 2: was soon after, So those Kathy Bass era Yeah, obviously,
Speaker 2: and I love to see it. But yeah, apparently ninety
Speaker 2: was her was Misery and she did phenomenal, So this
Speaker 2: is a complete flip for her. Going from that to
Speaker 2: this and pulling both of this off is genius.
Speaker 3: I loved it. I love Kathy Baits.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she did fantastic. I love that. It felt like
Speaker 1: a very feminist awakening for her, where she's hearing these
Speaker 1: stories and she's like questioning, why can't I even look
Speaker 1: at my own vagina? Why am I going to going
Speaker 1: to these like marriage classes when he could give like
Speaker 1: twos about it, like my husband And having all these
Speaker 1: questions and hearing these stories from Nini and getting inspired
Speaker 1: and kind of recognizing her own anger and what she wants.
Speaker 1: And I feel like there's a pretty powerful metaphor of
Speaker 1: There's one part where she Kathy Bates's character Evelyn, tear
Speaker 1: down a wall, doesn't ask her husband, just tears it down.
Speaker 1: It's like I want this light, I want this, I
Speaker 1: want this, and then she decides, no, I want you
Speaker 1: need to come back in and she rebuilds it. So
Speaker 1: it feels like she's tearing something down and she's becoming
Speaker 1: more confident and more aware of what she wants. And
Speaker 1: I also love her husband. Ed is like doing the
Speaker 1: frantic oh god, she might leave. Have some flowers. That
Speaker 1: is what I do.
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry I didn't.
Speaker 1: Notice right right, which I find fascinating. I think that's
Speaker 1: an interesting part of how marriage in this patriarchal system
Speaker 1: can control women, as this idea like oh, he'll leave me.
Speaker 1: But then she's like, maybe I'll leave you, and he's
Speaker 1: suddenly panicking because she does do all this stuff for him.
Speaker 1: She like hook brits him, the food, she gets him
Speaker 1: the beer, She doesn't bother him, she lets him. I
Speaker 1: don't say, let's him, but he talks down to her,
Speaker 1: and she does and say anything about it, right, So
Speaker 1: it was kind of funny and kind of frustrating, and
Speaker 1: I was still sort of hoping that they break up
Speaker 1: at the end, but I'd like, you.
Speaker 3: Just wanted to be the two of them in the house.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, But you know what, as you talk about that,
Speaker 2: there is like feminism is definitely in this in this
Speaker 2: movie because we see the growth of Ruth as well,
Speaker 2: the subservient, quiet woman who doesn't want to you know,
Speaker 2: who comes in to try to tame Aji, but the
Speaker 2: opposite ends up happening, essentially, and it kind of brings
Speaker 2: out her other side, you know her. For a birthday,
Speaker 2: they took her to the Bad Spot. I don't know
Speaker 2: what else call it, because it's not a bar, it's
Speaker 2: just a yeah, get together place where she plays poker
Speaker 2: for the first time, she drinks for the first time,
Speaker 2: she gets into the water, and they have that moment,
Speaker 2: you know, and Ruth saying, this is the best birthday
Speaker 2: I've ever had, and like growing into it, and then
Speaker 2: like finding her footing and then being able to leave
Speaker 2: her very abusive husband and being able to stay up
Speaker 2: against him and being able to do her own business,
Speaker 2: you know, running her own business and doing well with
Speaker 2: her friend and not needing a man necessarily to take
Speaker 2: care and raise the child, like all of these things
Speaker 2: like this growth for both of them, Ruth and Evelyn
Speaker 2: in parallel stories and then becoming women in their own
Speaker 2: right and doing what the hell they want.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was it was interesting too, the because
Speaker 1: unfortunately you still don't see that many roles for older women.
Speaker 1: So it was interesting to hear like Evelyn and nine
Speaker 1: talk together and then sort of see this, like especially
Speaker 1: when Evelyn like rams her car into this other car
Speaker 1: six times and have that conversation about age. Are like
Speaker 1: these younger women who are you know, maybe quote don't
Speaker 1: get it. It was just I don't know that I've
Speaker 1: seen too much of that of the like learning from
Speaker 1: the older generation. And maybe those two women who got
Speaker 1: their car wrecked in a couple of couple of years,
Speaker 1: they'll be like, wait, they'll be there.
Speaker 3: Also, they'll never try to steal someone's spot.
Speaker 1: No, I don't think they got the wrong one. Row.
Speaker 1: I also love that Evelyn's last name is Couch. She
Speaker 1: was always getting sad on because she keeps having these
Speaker 1: confrontations where she's like Why are you being so mean
Speaker 1: to me? I don't understand this right?
Speaker 2: And that was it it and then she just runs away,
Speaker 2: not this time, not to Wanda.
Speaker 3: No, that's gonna bother me.
Speaker 2: So another theme on this is of course racism, As
Speaker 2: with the most movies of that time and even recil
Speaker 2: though they do try to make a correct spin of
Speaker 2: addressing issues like racism and the disparities, they still get
Speaker 2: stuck with the stereotypical narratives in portraying the issues. Here's
Speaker 2: a good quote from ranker dot com. One pronounced shortcoming
Speaker 2: of Fried Green Tomatoes is how it portrays the lives
Speaker 2: of the African Americans in whistle Stop. The movie doesn't
Speaker 2: hold back in displaying Jim Crow Arab discrimination as well
Speaker 2: as the subservient roles African Americans were forced to accept.
Speaker 2: It does a better job than other films at the
Speaker 2: time of showcasing how systemic and tolerance destroys communities and
Speaker 2: ruins lives. The movie, however, makes the mistake of presenting
Speaker 2: characters like Big George and Sipsey played by stan Shaw
Speaker 2: and Cicily Tyson as stereotyped hired help with endless dedication
Speaker 2: to their employers. These characters are like depth or personal agency.
Speaker 2: While they are welcomed with open arms in Igy and
Speaker 2: chosen family, their stories only matter in relation to the
Speaker 2: white people around them. And again, this is that white
Speaker 2: savior thing that we see constantly. I know, I want
Speaker 2: to say the help I've never seen that, but that
Speaker 2: is the large criticism is like why do you have
Speaker 2: to center black people's trauma around a white person saving
Speaker 2: them essentially? And don't get me wrong again, as this
Speaker 2: quote says about the fact that they do a good job,
Speaker 2: they don't just do. They don't hold back and displaying
Speaker 2: the Jim Crow era discrimination and the roles that they
Speaker 2: have to accept during that time, especially in the South
Speaker 2: at that point in time, and like the influx of
Speaker 2: KKK members and the violence that was happening against the
Speaker 2: black community at the point, and honestly still but but
Speaker 2: they're still like as the portrayal, they really do lean
Speaker 2: hard in to be like, oh, but you know, these
Speaker 2: white people will save them because they're protecting them, and
Speaker 2: that's that's why they're okay. And also they're they're mild
Speaker 2: and cold. I will say, like the SIPs character, there's
Speaker 2: two big stereotypes in there. The Big George. The name
Speaker 2: Big George in itself is like an indication in Sipsy's
Speaker 2: character is an indication of like, yeah, this is almost
Speaker 2: like gone with.
Speaker 3: A wind level.
Speaker 2: Of betrayal but okay of the black community. But like
Speaker 2: Sipsy says at one point, she's like, I'm not your mama,
Speaker 2: don't don't come in here like that, Like she does,
Speaker 2: like stand firm and making sure she separates herself from them,
Speaker 2: like the white people she works with or works for
Speaker 2: at that point in time. And of course she handles
Speaker 2: her own because she's the one that took out Frank.
Speaker 2: But still her narrative is so quiet, you know, like
Speaker 2: it's still just very quiet, and she just meekly walks
Speaker 2: away and maybe that's again purposeful.
Speaker 3: And also, yeah, is Cicely Tyson. There's so much more
Speaker 3: she could do with.
Speaker 2: That character that she isn't a phenomenal actor and it
Speaker 2: felt like like a throwaway even though maybe.
Speaker 3: That's the way the production was.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but like, how dare you not use
Speaker 2: Cicely Tyson more? Because she is phenomenal? What is wrong
Speaker 2: with you?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I mean once again, I did not know
Speaker 1: this was gonna happen to me this morning when I
Speaker 1: was watching this, Oh my god. What. I think it's
Speaker 1: interesting that because this really started to hold conversation in
Speaker 1: my head about we've struggled with this too.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, when you portray something of the time, how
Speaker 1: to do that carefully, delicately, accurately, properly. And I do
Speaker 1: think a lot of that has to do with who's
Speaker 1: writing it, who's in it, who's centered in it, because
Speaker 1: it's something we can't and shouldn't ignore, but it also
Speaker 1: isn't something that should be romanticized by white people. So
Speaker 1: I think that's important in this whole conversation, and it
Speaker 1: it was it felt clumsy, Like I feel like a
Speaker 1: lot of things they did do better than a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff I've seen or even recent stuff, but it
Speaker 1: still felt kind of clumsy. And I'm going to assume
Speaker 1: that's because of who was involved.
Speaker 2: The main people that I see credited are not black
Speaker 2: or part of the black community, So I would say,
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know who they talked to.
Speaker 3: Maybe they did.
Speaker 2: I think when it comes to like those specific characters
Speaker 2: you have that you've seen, Big George and even that
Speaker 2: name like throughout the years and you know exactly what
Speaker 2: kind of character you're getting into and what they've become
Speaker 2: most of the caricature of black men in those times,
Speaker 2: and they do it purposefully. Of that gentle giant doesn't
Speaker 2: talk a lot, and so there's a lot of implications
Speaker 2: to that as well as the Sipsy character of being that,
Speaker 2: you know, the motherly, nanny ish type. But you know,
Speaker 2: you know, we're talking about in that level and taking
Speaker 2: care of or being the one that uh has to
Speaker 2: get the tough love to the white character because she's
Speaker 2: not she's too spoiled. But again, this like level of
Speaker 2: like this is where the stereotypes of when we see
Speaker 2: of black women and black men kind of come from.
Speaker 2: In that level, like you're trying to target people and
Speaker 2: minimize who they are as people and taking away the
Speaker 2: depth of the story that is there. Once again, we
Speaker 2: don't even know anything about where did where did Big
Speaker 2: George come from? We just know that he and uh
Speaker 2: Itchy are close, But why who is he?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 3: Just what?
Speaker 2: And then who is Sipsy? A part of this is
Speaker 2: what like what? So it's just kind of all those
Speaker 2: things that they purposely did this thing to make them
Speaker 2: a side character, not even of human, almost just further
Speaker 2: the plot. And that is again really problematic. And even
Speaker 2: though again this movie does better job than some, especially
Speaker 2: during that time, it stills like oh oh yeah uh.
Speaker 2: And then at any point, I'm gonna say this, if
Speaker 2: you're using derogatory terms and scenes of like a KKK
Speaker 2: scene with the black community at the time, and you
Speaker 2: don't have black people present to like monitor as well
Speaker 2: as dictate what's happening, I don't think it should happen.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's too harsh of a I don't know, I
Speaker 2: just don't think it should happen like that seems it
Speaker 2: feels real bad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it also like made me because this was
Speaker 1: a long time ago. But occasionally I would get complaints
Speaker 1: before you Smantha, I would get complaints like you, how
Speaker 1: about trigger warnings?
Speaker 2: And I.
Speaker 1: You know, I went into this movie and not knowing
Speaker 1: any of this was gonna happen, and I was quite
Speaker 1: shocked at the language that was used, and I was
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, that should be a warn't that there
Speaker 1: should be at the front, like hey, And I then
Speaker 1: I was like, I guess movies really don't do well
Speaker 1: at doing that or a lot of other stuff, but
Speaker 1: like I rented it digitally and I got no warning.
Speaker 1: I was just but it is. It's true, like I
Speaker 1: think that that should be something that only people from
Speaker 1: the black community. Yeah, they should be there. They should
Speaker 1: make sure like okay, this is being handled correctly, but
Speaker 1: also there should be just a warning at the front. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be there.
Speaker 2: I there's needs to you ale revamping because of course
Speaker 2: we can't ignore that history. That's too ignorant and we
Speaker 2: don't want to downplay that. But again, this is that
Speaker 2: level of like, Okay, let's have a conversation about who
Speaker 2: should be able to dictate what's being said or done
Speaker 2: here and why it's important. And if you don't have
Speaker 2: black people on that as part of that voice behind
Speaker 2: the scenes, then you need to you should not have
Speaker 2: permission to use it like that's in the story and.
Speaker 1: It sucks because that's like such a traumatizing thing. That's
Speaker 1: one of the most.
Speaker 2: Yeah to work that in, but right, but you don't
Speaker 2: want them to do that labor. But at the same time,
Speaker 2: there's so much too this it's like, Okay, how do
Speaker 2: we go about this, because yeah, we already know what
Speaker 2: happens when white people take a hold of it or
Speaker 2: non black people.
Speaker 1: Right, We've had that conversation before about the pain of
Speaker 1: doing and being a historian our researcher when that's your
Speaker 1: expertise or that's what you're doing, and so it is,
Speaker 1: it is really painful. So I think that should also
Speaker 1: be recognized too.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, like there's so much to this that's like, oh,
Speaker 2: by the way, I was wrong, was PG thirteen because
Speaker 2: that had started at nineteen eighty four.
Speaker 3: That was later, that was in the nineties.
Speaker 1: It was after Poltergeist.
Speaker 2: Yep, oh, that's right. We had that conversation, was PG.
Speaker 2: Thirteen at the very least. But still, like some of
Speaker 2: those things, you're like, who.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm only laughing as a kid. I did not
Speaker 1: know what was gonna happen to be this morning.
Speaker 3: That's what this one's I guess we're even and this
Speaker 3: one's on me. I'm sorry, Yeah, I was sorry.
Speaker 1: It wasn't as traumatic as my my mistake, so it's okay.
Speaker 2: Still, yeah, in my head, I know you hadn't seen it,
Speaker 2: but I assumed you knew of it.
Speaker 1: Like of the things I thought it was older women
Speaker 1: living in a house together, eating fried green tomatoes. Oh,
Speaker 1: when we're in love, that's what I.
Speaker 3: Call well, you know.
Speaker 2: And then the final I guess the final theme is
Speaker 2: death and endings because we would talking about that, well,
Speaker 2: when things change and what happens and what looks like
Speaker 2: in dealing with that, because yes, we have a lot of.
Speaker 3: Death throughout this movie.
Speaker 2: At the very least, at least Nanni is still alive.
Speaker 2: And even though we're talking about themes, there's been a
Speaker 2: debate and most of the things that I've seen online
Speaker 2: assume that the movie Nini, who was played by Jessica Tandy,
Speaker 2: is actually Igy. So in the Wikipedia page they have
Speaker 2: Jessica Tandy playing Nini slash Igy thread Good. In me IMDb,
Speaker 2: it does not credit her such, so I don't think
Speaker 2: so people talk about whether or not she was Itgy
Speaker 2: in the end telling the story as a third person
Speaker 2: and then being Nanni. But in the book she's actually
Speaker 2: not Igy. She is Igi's sister in law because she
Speaker 2: married Igi's brother that we met, so that's this is
Speaker 2: how she knows the story. So, but there's a whole
Speaker 2: debate about it, and people are like, no, she'sa a
Speaker 2: g They changed it in the in the movie, I
Speaker 2: was like, I don't think so.
Speaker 1: I So I told you I thought that was going
Speaker 1: to be the conclusion. I don't think so either. And
Speaker 1: I started to rewatch it because, as you know, once
Speaker 1: I rent something, I watched it like a million times.
Speaker 1: And I feel like this scene in the beginning where
Speaker 1: I mean, you probably know better than me, but where
Speaker 1: Iggy's coming down the stairs and in her dress and
Speaker 1: gets in a fight, wasn't that Ninny who's like, she's
Speaker 1: going to ruin my wedding?
Speaker 2: No, so, Ninni is the sister in law to Igy,
Speaker 2: the the brother that's teasing her, she marries him.
Speaker 1: I guess I had no idea who was getting married.
Speaker 3: That's the oldest sister that we never hear about. Again,
Speaker 3: it never comes into place.
Speaker 1: Well, and I can't help you at all, but I assume, yeah,
Speaker 1: I I thought it was going that way. For a minute,
Speaker 1: I thought it was gonna be one of or Iggy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I don't, nah, I don't think so.
Speaker 2: So profess you and I vote though, But like all
Speaker 2: of the things that I've read, they go back because
Speaker 2: like I just read through it, I was like, okay, cool,
Speaker 2: because I at the ending, I was like, that's not
Speaker 2: itchy because like the look between Evelyn and Nini and
Speaker 2: when they discover that there's a jar of honey, oh knowing,
Speaker 2: and that's the end. And then almost like when Evelyn goes.
Speaker 3: Like, maybe we'll run into her as before we leave.
Speaker 2: I think everybody insinuated that that was an insinuation that
Speaker 2: she was running into her right then or trying to
Speaker 2: play koy, but I was like, I don't think so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it also kind of felt like for me
Speaker 1: that the it was more of a she is a
Speaker 1: a freaking wild spirit, I guess, like almost almost a
Speaker 1: force instead of a person, like not that she isn't,
Speaker 1: but almost like it's that taste of feminism you get
Speaker 1: through her, so it's like something that will live forever,
Speaker 1: right all right. I kind of got the vibe it
Speaker 1: was more like, oh, she's around, which she is I believe, yeah,
Speaker 1: but also on top of that, like the look would
Speaker 1: be more you know, and she's living within us, like
Speaker 1: and is still going and.
Speaker 3: Oh you got real deep on that one.
Speaker 1: I get real deep.
Speaker 2: That was That's that's not where I went, but okay, yeah, nice,
Speaker 2: I liked it.
Speaker 3: Oh good, I love this.
Speaker 1: I do this all the time. My friends will be like,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it's just.
Speaker 3: All right. She's become mythical at this point. But oh yeah,
Speaker 3: fund it, itchy and you.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, yes that we need that on a pillow.
Speaker 3: He was too close to itchy.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's, you know, the itch of feminism. There
Speaker 1: you go.
Speaker 3: Sure I don't like that. Let's not do that.
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll workshop it, Okay, Yes, honestly, like, there's so
Speaker 1: many things we could talk about. I love that they
Speaker 1: included Mary Kay. That really made me laugh. It made
Speaker 1: me have something.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that's too much for my blood, my parents' blood.
Speaker 1: Oh people. But also just a lot of like, yeah
Speaker 1: nineties thoughts around women and.
Speaker 2: Yeah culture, Yeah, I didn't left the dining culture the
Speaker 2: whole level for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I love her friend who I never learned her name,
Speaker 1: but I love her friend who's like, well, just whisper
Speaker 1: something in her ear and it'll be like divorce. So
Speaker 1: was fun. I mean, I didn't know what I was
Speaker 1: getting into, but I apologies, I did enjoy it. But yes,
Speaker 1: this several listeners have recommended this one, so thank you.
Speaker 1: We do take your recommendations into account, So if you
Speaker 1: have any ideas for the next movies move you have
Speaker 1: already sent them. We have a list. I promise we
Speaker 1: are collating them, but if you have any ideas, you
Speaker 1: can send them to us at Stephanie mom Stuff at
Speaker 1: iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter at
Speaker 1: mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at Steffon
Speaker 1: Never Told You. We have a tea public store and
Speaker 1: we have a book. You can pre order it Stuff.
Speaker 1: You should read books dot com. Thanks as always to
Speaker 1: our super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya, and our
Speaker 1: contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks to you for listening.
Speaker 1: Stefan Never Told You is production of iHeartRadio. For more
Speaker 1: podcast from my heart Radio, you can check out the
Speaker 1: heart Radio app. Have a podcast or where you listen
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows