Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,
Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
Speaker 1: for joining me for session three twenty three of the
Speaker 1: for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation
Speaker 1: after a word from our sponsors. Which friend are you?
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Speaker 1: do a better job of supporting you. Order yours today
Speaker 1: at Sisterhoodheels dot com. When it comes to music, Summer
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three has given us everything and more. From
Speaker 1: Janelle Monet ushering us into the Age of Pleasure, to
Speaker 1: Beyonce giving us life with her Renaissance tour, and let's
Speaker 1: not forget I Spice taking us to Bobby Land. The
Speaker 1: question of song of the Summer has never been more complicated.
Speaker 1: Joining me this week to chat all about summer's major
Speaker 1: music moments is returning guest Danielle Smith. Danielle is the
Speaker 1: author of the acclaimed Shine Bright, a very personal history
Speaker 1: of Black women in pop, and creator and host of
Speaker 1: the Spotify original podcast, Black Girls Songbook. Residing in California,
Speaker 1: Danielle is also a contributing writer to The New York
Speaker 1: Times magazine. Today, Danielle shares what makes a good summer song,
Speaker 1: the healing power of summer music, and her favorite releases
Speaker 1: of the past and present. If something resonates with you
Speaker 1: while enjoying our conversation, please share it with us on
Speaker 1: social media using the hashtag TVG in Session, or join
Speaker 1: us over in the Sister Circle to talk more about
Speaker 1: the episode. You can join us at community dot therapy
Speaker 1: for Blackgirls dot Com. Here's our conversation. So good to
Speaker 1: see you again, Danielle.
Speaker 2: It's good to see you too. Look at you. What
Speaker 2: about those glasses?
Speaker 1: I know right, they helped me to see very well
Speaker 1: and they're cute, very fashionable. So the last time we
Speaker 1: had you here on the podcast, you were talking about
Speaker 1: your then newly released books Shine Bright. So tell me
Speaker 1: what has changed for you since the book and what
Speaker 1: kinds of reaction did you get related to the book.
Speaker 3: I honestly could not have hoped for a better reaction,
Speaker 3: the amount of support, the amount of feedback, the amount
Speaker 3: of love, frankly from people who were glad that the
Speaker 3: sort of untold stories of black women in music were
Speaker 3: being told in detail, beyond them just being the first
Speaker 3: this or the first that that was spectacular. There is
Speaker 3: a huge memoir piece in my book that was very
Speaker 3: emotional for me. I had a tempestuous childhood. So when
Speaker 3: I was on the road with the book, some folks
Speaker 3: would just really come up to me and say, yes,
Speaker 3: I really did appreciate what you said about Diana Ross
Speaker 3: or I really appreciate what you said about Marilyn McCoo.
Speaker 3: I really appreciate the stories that you told about Whitney Houston.
Speaker 3: But I also appreciate the story you told about yourself
Speaker 3: the strength that has been giving me over the last year.
Speaker 3: It's been it's just been fortifying. I feel super I
Speaker 3: guess lucky, but just mostly just grateful.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love that, and I love that you have gotten
Speaker 1: such good feedback, and it felt like you were really
Speaker 1: the only one to write this book, right, Like those
Speaker 1: stories really were advantage point that. I think that you
Speaker 1: had a very unique way of sharing with us. I
Speaker 1: really appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm glad that you enjoyed. It just brings me
Speaker 3: a lot of joy to tell the stories. I mean,
Speaker 3: sometimes it makes me mad because of the content, or
Speaker 3: it makes me sad because I know some of the
Speaker 3: tragedies that have occurred.
Speaker 2: I know some of the.
Speaker 3: Meanness and the prejudice that black women in music and
Speaker 3: black women in john.
Speaker 2: Of course, we so often get the brunt of that.
Speaker 3: But it still it just brings me so much joy
Speaker 3: to tell the stories because there is also that much joy,
Speaker 3: that much commitment to excellence, that much ambition, that much
Speaker 3: just love in these women and their voices and their work.
Speaker 3: So it has been fantastic. I'm so happy you asked me.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, So we brought you back this week, Danielle,
Speaker 1: because we really wanted to have a conversation about summer music, right, Like,
Speaker 1: it feels like that is very much a vibe looking
Speaker 1: forward to summer music. So I want to hear from you.
Speaker 1: What is your definition of summer music. Is it just
Speaker 1: a song that comes out in the summer, or is
Speaker 1: it like music that gives you summer vibes?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: Let me just say for me, it's not really a
Speaker 3: song that has to come out in the summer, because
Speaker 3: sometimes I feel like songs in the previous eras but
Speaker 3: also in this era, sometimes they need some moments to
Speaker 3: like marinate, They need to kind of bubble under the
Speaker 3: big pop scene and sort of become what they're going
Speaker 3: to be. To me, it's rarely that a song drops
Speaker 3: on June fifteenth and then by July nineteenth it's just.
Speaker 2: The most amazing summer song of the world.
Speaker 3: In some cases, like maybe this summer we had Barbie World,
Speaker 3: which to me is a supreme, supreme, supreme summer song.
Speaker 3: But no, it doesn't have to come out in the summer.
Speaker 3: It has to evoke a certain free spiritedness, a certain
Speaker 3: this moment is for me and nature.
Speaker 2: This is for the sun to touch my skin. I
Speaker 2: feel good in that.
Speaker 3: So oftentimes, to me, a summer song makes you feel
Speaker 3: great about being on a bicycle or being in a
Speaker 3: convertible car where you feel the wind in your hair,
Speaker 3: or something that's playing out of a phone, or a
Speaker 3: waterproof speaker at the beach as everybody's running back and
Speaker 3: forth into the water. Those are the kind of things
Speaker 3: to me, that mood of summer that makes a summer song.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 1: So you said that you feel like Barbiewell was a
Speaker 1: supreme summer song. What makes it a supreme summer song
Speaker 1: for you?
Speaker 3: Okay, So even though I just said it doesn't have
Speaker 3: to drop in the summer, I just said, like I
Speaker 3: just said that this one kind of did, or at
Speaker 3: the very least slate spring, I think, and it just
Speaker 3: took over. There's something about the confidence in the song.
Speaker 3: There's something about the song that says, yes, I need
Speaker 3: a miniskirt one, where's my halter top?
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? Where's my glowy lotion?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: Where are my girlfriends?
Speaker 3: We need to like coordinate, if not one hundred percent match,
Speaker 3: like you know, what I'm saying, Like when she says
Speaker 3: that line about where it girls and we're not playing tag?
Speaker 3: Every time I hear it, I'm like, it's me odd,
Speaker 3: Like it's just that cute.
Speaker 1: Love it, Love it, Yeah, I mean, And of course
Speaker 1: the movie to go over the summer right like, it
Speaker 1: feels like everything was Bobby and I feel like that
Speaker 1: was the perfect songs that go along with the movie.
Speaker 3: It really was, and it's so great. Also, just miss
Speaker 3: NICKI Minaj are Queen of rap. You know, sometimes it's
Speaker 3: so difficult as we all get older in life and
Speaker 3: in the game to form partnerships with folks that are
Speaker 3: coming up under us. And to see Niki and I
Speaker 3: spies just come together like in this it's almost a
Speaker 3: perfect record. Like the way they bounce off of each other,
Speaker 3: the way they're in sync, just really energy.
Speaker 2: Wise, mood wise.
Speaker 3: To see that partnership, it does my heart just a
Speaker 3: whole lot of good to see that happening.
Speaker 1: Love it, Love it. So is there a particular song
Speaker 1: that instantly brings up a summer memory for you?
Speaker 3: What's that Roy Ayir song Everybody Loves the Sunshine?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yes, remember Mary J. Blige sampled it for my life everybody.
Speaker 3: So that song, it's always credited as it should be
Speaker 3: to Roy Ayers, he's the brilliant musician that created the record,
Speaker 3: but the vocals are by a woman named Debbie Darby.
Speaker 2: My life, My life, My life, my life. Don't let
Speaker 2: me get to sing it. But let's not do that
Speaker 2: because we're gonna be in a winter song moment with that.
Speaker 3: There's something about that Roy Airs Debbie Derby moment, My
Speaker 3: life in the Sunshine. I lived in Brooklyn for a
Speaker 3: long time. I lived there for a long time when
Speaker 3: I was married, but also when I was single, So
Speaker 3: it's something about that energy.
Speaker 2: And I think then tied to the Mary J.
Speaker 3: Blig song, It's just gonna always remind me of New
Speaker 3: York and Brooklyn and summertime really in New York and Brooklyn,
Speaker 3: which let me just go on and say in Brooklyn,
Speaker 3: and not really even in New York, but like very
Speaker 3: specifically in Brooklyn. If you've never spent a summer in Brooklyn,
Speaker 3: you're missing like the people, the food, the parks, the
Speaker 3: people walking their dogs, the beef patties, the pizza, the
Speaker 3: sitting outside with your ice coffee at the cafe. The
Speaker 3: saying should we go into the city. Should we go
Speaker 3: into the city, and the answer being no, we shouldn't
Speaker 3: because Brooklyn is everything. They're looking at the que folks
Speaker 3: on the street, folks in their tank tops and their
Speaker 3: sun dresses, like it's just amazing.
Speaker 2: The street fair.
Speaker 3: There's always a street fair in Brooklyn. It's not a
Speaker 3: special occasion. There's always a street fair somewhere in Brooklyn.
Speaker 3: So you can always go begetting some dried apricots, you
Speaker 3: can go get yourself a corn dog, you can get
Speaker 3: yourself a vegan smoothie. And it's just the energy of
Speaker 3: Brooklyn and that song, My Life in the Sunshine, it
Speaker 3: conjures all that up for me.
Speaker 1: I love it. That's a good one. So you mentioned
Speaker 1: the sampling there, and that's something I love to hear
Speaker 1: more about. So I feel like sampling is something that
Speaker 1: has been proliferated right like the industry, but I feel
Speaker 1: like there's a bit of controversy also around sampling. I'd
Speaker 1: love to hear your thoughts on sampling and maybe some
Speaker 1: of your favorite songs that have sampled another song.
Speaker 2: I think it's always tough.
Speaker 3: When we were talking about Nicki Minajen I spice it
Speaker 3: can be such a challenge really to have a conversation
Speaker 3: musically between generations. But I think that hip hop actually
Speaker 3: has made it easier, and that even when things could
Speaker 3: get salty, like maybe between Will Smith and DJ Jazzy
Speaker 3: Jeff and Corn the Gang, who they sampled for their
Speaker 3: cuge summer hit Summertime.
Speaker 1: Come On.
Speaker 2: Oh you know how much we love Will Smith? Come On?
Speaker 2: Come On?
Speaker 3: That is like the Black Summertime national anthem. First of all,
Speaker 3: Will's in perfect form. He's in perfect form vocally, the
Speaker 3: video is perfection. And the way I was just talking
Speaker 3: about Brooklyn, that's the way Will is speaking about Philly.
Speaker 3: We all love that song and we all love the music.
Speaker 2: But the music is.
Speaker 3: A huge sample from Cool in the Gang, who have
Speaker 3: a song called Summer Madness. In Will's version, there's like, again,
Speaker 3: don't get me to mimicking sounds, but there's this long
Speaker 3: note right, and then it goes higher and it goes higher,
Speaker 3: and it's almost like, how high can it go when
Speaker 3: it contributes so much to the mood.
Speaker 2: That's cool in the game.
Speaker 3: That's all Robert Coobell in his game, And to me,
Speaker 3: it's a perfect sampling, a perfect example of DJ jazz.
Speaker 3: Jeff and Will Smith, the Fresh Prince probably had heard
Speaker 3: that song their whole life. Their parents probably played it
Speaker 3: in their homes. They probably heard it on the radio,
Speaker 3: they heard it at parties, so it was just a
Speaker 3: part of their spirit and soul. So when they say
Speaker 3: let's put together a song about summertime in Philly, that's
Speaker 3: what they go to. So to me, that magic. Especially
Speaker 3: if things are done right and the original artist is
Speaker 3: being paid as they should be paid for their creative work,
Speaker 3: then I have nothing bad to say about sampling, not
Speaker 3: one thing. I love the conversation between generations.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 3: It makes hip hop rich, It makes hip hop educational,
Speaker 3: even when it doesn't seem like it's being so.
Speaker 2: I am anything of.
Speaker 1: I love that. That's a great example. Are there others
Speaker 1: that come to mind for you that you feel like
Speaker 1: are some of your favorites?
Speaker 2: Well? I like anything that samples. Frankie Beverly amazed.
Speaker 3: And it's funny because Frankie Beverly and Mays they do
Speaker 3: not like to be sampled.
Speaker 2: They're a group where they feel like, basically, y'all need
Speaker 2: to make your own music, like.
Speaker 3: We're fine over here, Like you need to do something
Speaker 3: on your own, but it's really hard not to because
Speaker 3: Frankie Beverly amazes. It's our life, it's in our blood.
Speaker 3: So anything that samples Mays featuring Frankie Beverly, there's just
Speaker 3: so many and I'm always listening for it.
Speaker 1: And are you able to typically pick it up pretty easily?
Speaker 3: Yes and no, because I think sometimes one hip hop
Speaker 3: producers are so smart and they're so meticulous, they might
Speaker 3: take the very tiniest bit of a song and that's
Speaker 3: why hip hop works. Okay, So now I know one
Speaker 3: Diana Ross, I'm coming out and more Money and More Problems,
Speaker 3: Am I right?
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: It's like, if you don't know the Diana Ross song
Speaker 3: more Many, More Problems still works, But if you do
Speaker 3: know the Diana Ross.
Speaker 2: Song More Money, More Problems works on levels.
Speaker 3: It also calls people into conversations across generations and across
Speaker 3: eras and music. It calls in people who came up
Speaker 3: with the Supremes, It calls in people who came up
Speaker 3: with Diana Ross as a solo artist, and it calls
Speaker 3: up people who were partying with Uptown and Bad Boy
Speaker 3: Records during the late eighties and early nineteen nineties. So
Speaker 3: it functions on levels and it's just something that could
Speaker 3: I hear it. Of course I immediately heard it, and
Speaker 3: that matters because of the age that I am.
Speaker 2: But also my niece who's thirty years younger, A mean, she.
Speaker 3: Doesn't know the Diana russong, but momenty more problems is
Speaker 3: everything to her when really her generation is more I
Speaker 3: spice than anything.
Speaker 2: So that's why I love sampling as well.
Speaker 1: No, I love that that the intergenerational piece I think
Speaker 1: is important. So when you think about like summer music,
Speaker 1: in summer songs, do you feel like there's anybody who
Speaker 1: has had a big career out of primarily releasing songs
Speaker 1: of the summer and summer music.
Speaker 3: It is the Southern and Midwest guys. Okay, it's ludicrous,
Speaker 3: and it's Nelly for sure. It's Hot in Here. It's
Speaker 3: a summer song, like it's a nightclub song. It's a
Speaker 3: fraternity or sorority dance song. But it's Hot in Here
Speaker 3: is also like a beat song, So Nelly, And then
Speaker 3: you think about all those like Ludacris hasn't always been
Speaker 3: the most politically correct, so I hesitate to bring up
Speaker 3: area codes. But that was a huge, huge, summer song,
Speaker 3: Oh My God, Ti and Rihanna, these artists, I feel
Speaker 3: like they know how to put their finger on the
Speaker 3: pulse of I want to make people dance. I want
Speaker 3: people to have on loose fitting clothing. I want people
Speaker 3: to be sexy. I want people to feel good. I
Speaker 3: don't want people, at least in this instance, to ask
Speaker 3: themselves too many hard questions about life. I want them
Speaker 3: to be feeling like things can be okay because the
Speaker 3: sun is shining.
Speaker 2: I look cute. People look cute.
Speaker 3: Also, I'm not always listening to Katy Perry, but Katy
Speaker 3: Perry and Snoop with California girls and me being a
Speaker 3: California girl. Listen, I think not to get on my
Speaker 3: homestatee though, what is amazing when I think about a
Speaker 3: song from like nineteen seventies from Marlena Shaw, the jazz singer,
Speaker 3: California Soul. It's been sampled so many times, it's been
Speaker 3: in commercials for Jeep. It's California Soul.
Speaker 2: Again. You did not invite me on here for my
Speaker 2: singing voice, but California Soul.
Speaker 3: I think songs about California, songs about the American West.
Speaker 3: Somehow those are easy to get in there as summer
Speaker 3: songs as well.
Speaker 1: So I feel like you've given us a bit of
Speaker 1: an answer to this question. But like, how would an
Speaker 1: artist approach a song for the summer perhaps differently than
Speaker 1: they might a song for any other time.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's any easier, But I do think
Speaker 3: you have to be intentional as a creator, and I
Speaker 3: do think that you have to be a part of
Speaker 3: a team, because no matter what the credits say, a
Speaker 3: song is a team effort. So rare one in a
Speaker 3: million where a song is only one person singer, songwriter, producer,
Speaker 3: vocal write. Like, really, almost nobody is all of those things,
Speaker 3: even Prince when he said he was. I think when
Speaker 3: you're trying to make something for the summertime, you really
Speaker 3: do have to say, all this stress that's right here
Speaker 3: on my shoulders, I have to create as if it's
Speaker 3: not there. I have to create as if the song
Speaker 3: is in my face. I have to create as if
Speaker 3: I have a glass of prosecco in front of me,
Speaker 3: or rose with a little raspberry in it or something.
Speaker 2: My toes are.
Speaker 3: Done, my nails are done, and I'm just looking at
Speaker 3: the waves hitting the shore. Even if the song doesn't
Speaker 3: contain those details. It's that mood that it helps infuse
Speaker 3: the song with that kind of energy, because a song
Speaker 3: isn't just the lyrics and the sound.
Speaker 2: It's not just.
Speaker 3: The lyrics or even the story of the song and
Speaker 3: the instruments or the technology. It really is the spirit
Speaker 3: of the people that made the record.
Speaker 2: Like it still matters.
Speaker 3: I always say that there's a lot of math in music,
Speaker 3: right there is. Music is a language its own kind
Speaker 3: of algebra. But none of that matters without the magic
Speaker 3: that is there. And you do hear it in summer songs,
Speaker 3: but really in just the best songs where you can't
Speaker 3: quite even me, who's been writing about music for decades,
Speaker 3: sometimes I will be thinking of a song that I
Speaker 3: love so much that it's difficult to write about because
Speaker 3: it's hard to capture in words the magic of somebody
Speaker 3: else's imagination. And summer songs, man, sometimes they're just so
Speaker 3: effervescent and evokace. That's when you just know, like there's magic,
Speaker 3: you know, being in the studio as recording artists, if
Speaker 3: you're able to all be together, because so much is
Speaker 3: done now via laptop and phone, but a lot is
Speaker 3: still done together in a room and I've been in
Speaker 3: these rooms where people come in and they're grouchy, or
Speaker 3: they're tired because it's early, or because it's late. They're hungry,
Speaker 3: they're waiting on food. They have a whole bunch of
Speaker 3: stuff in their notes app or a whole bunch of
Speaker 3: stuff in a raggedy little notepad. Somebody else is late.
Speaker 3: Things we're supposed to have happened that haven't happened. But
Speaker 3: somebody plays a note, or somebody reads a couple of lyrics,
Speaker 3: somebody changes the lighting in the room. Somebody arrives with
Speaker 3: the limit pepper wings, and all of a sudden magic
Speaker 3: is being made and it doesn't require as much conversation.
Speaker 3: People are vibing off of each other, and man, those
Speaker 3: moments you can hear them in summertime. You can hear
Speaker 3: them in summer madness.
Speaker 2: You can hear them.
Speaker 3: Man, what's my other favorite one? Oh my god, lovely day.
Speaker 3: Didn't you mention that from Bill Withers? Yes, what I've
Speaker 3: been at weddings where they play that when the bride
Speaker 3: and groom have just been married and they're walking, I
Speaker 3: mean the tears of joy from everyone, and then when
Speaker 3: Bill Withers at the end of that record sings that
Speaker 3: pure long almost twenty second. Nope, he didn't tell anybody
Speaker 3: he was doing that before he did it. The musicians
Speaker 3: and stuff didn't know. They had to stay in the
Speaker 3: groove in the cut with him. I know they were
Speaker 3: looking at it. I don't know, but I can imagine
Speaker 3: they were looking at each other like, Okay, what is
Speaker 3: Bill on right now? If he's still going? And they
Speaker 3: stayed with it, and then we have that classic. We
Speaker 3: can't forget How Girl Summer, Doctor joy M.
Speaker 1: I mean clearly, clearly. I feel like that has been
Speaker 1: like the summer theme since it came out.
Speaker 3: It's so great, and it's also so influential just in
Speaker 3: American culture. It's like everything is such and such a summer.
Speaker 3: It's a hot labor summer. It's a hot car summer,
Speaker 3: it's a hot mini skirt summer. It's a hot whatever summer, right,
Speaker 3: And I don't think Megan gets enough.
Speaker 2: Credit for that. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I also feel like the timing of it was not fair,
Speaker 1: because of course it dropped right in the pandemic, and
Speaker 1: so I feel like we have not quite had a
Speaker 1: summer to fully appreciate Hot Girl Summer since it came out.
Speaker 3: True you know, true, yeah, yes, but Meg really is
Speaker 3: her own She is her own kind of genius.
Speaker 2: Ah all that she's been through.
Speaker 3: I hope she's loving and enjoying her summer really deeply.
Speaker 3: One of my favorite favorites, though, is Summertime from Elephis
Speaker 3: Gerald and Louis Armstrong when she said, and the living
Speaker 3: is easy when you know and it was no parts
Speaker 3: of that, right, but she still had to give us
Speaker 3: that so that we could even imagine it and feel
Speaker 3: it and have some salve on our souls.
Speaker 2: What does she say?
Speaker 3: The cotton is high, the catfish are jumping like ladies
Speaker 3: and gentlemen. Ella Fitzgerald not quite the beginning of everything
Speaker 3: for us, but super close to being that. And she
Speaker 3: had her own summer anthem with that song, Summertime. And
Speaker 3: if folks haven't heard it, you're missing out. You are
Speaker 3: missing out. And also, believe me, so many people have
Speaker 3: covered it, and most people, regardless of genre, rise to
Speaker 3: the occasion of the song. But Ella's version with mister
Speaker 3: Armstrong is the version.
Speaker 2: Please start there, Please.
Speaker 1: Please start there. More from our conversation after the break,
Speaker 1: I feel like there's a very Beyonce tie in here.
Speaker 1: And I don't want us to get too sidetracked, because
Speaker 1: I could definitely spend the rest of this episode talking
Speaker 1: about everything that is Renaissance. But I do feel like
Speaker 1: you made a comment just a second ago around making music,
Speaker 1: even when that's not what people are feeling, right like
Speaker 1: when the world is crumbling, how artists will go within
Speaker 1: to give the public something. And I definitely feel like
Speaker 1: that's what Renaissance was for a lot of us when
Speaker 1: it dropped last year and then now this year with
Speaker 1: the tour, like that very much feels like summer music
Speaker 1: for sure.
Speaker 3: A gift, yes, a gift to the culture, our culture,
Speaker 3: but a gift to the world and the universe. Like
Speaker 3: it's an ongoing, never stopping costume party. It's like a
Speaker 3: disco ball over the world, you know, like in the
Speaker 3: way social media allows us to participate in each other's
Speaker 3: joy to get Ready with Me videos of people listen
Speaker 3: to me with get Ready for Me videos for a
Speaker 3: Renaissance night, Why are people going all the way out?
Speaker 3: Like there's this one red outfit that Beyonce has worn,
Speaker 3: you know how she loves like a leotard, but it's
Speaker 3: a long sleeve leotard and she's gonna give you a
Speaker 3: good guarter belt and a boot and all of this.
Speaker 3: This one woman I was watching, she is a seamstress.
Speaker 3: She is a tailor, a designer. She created that outfit
Speaker 3: for herself, and let me tell you the stuff that
Speaker 3: she was using.
Speaker 2: I was like, girl, I don't know how that's gonna
Speaker 2: hold together.
Speaker 3: I feel you, but girl, wear some under it, because
Speaker 3: I don't know what's gonna pop out. When she put
Speaker 3: that on one, it all held together. But when she
Speaker 3: put that on the joy of her looking at herself
Speaker 3: and her work in her mirror and sharing that with.
Speaker 2: All of us.
Speaker 3: Girl listen, I was like, Beyonce's doing work when she's
Speaker 3: not even working, because oh my god, everybody with their
Speaker 3: aerodesse and cowboy hats. Many people making them themselves, even
Speaker 3: if they're not professionals with a needle and thread. Like
Speaker 3: one woman I saw was like, I'm going to renaissance.
Speaker 3: I'm not spending all this money though I'm doing advantage.
Speaker 3: I'm doing all vintage, and I'm doing it like from
Speaker 3: this one store, so I'm not driving all over town
Speaker 3: the way she came out looking, I'm like, I should
Speaker 3: have gotten more dressed up.
Speaker 2: I saw her in London.
Speaker 3: I guess I was at the top of the summer
Speaker 3: and I didn't know really how deep we all needed
Speaker 3: that until I saw folks dancing at floor level at
Speaker 3: the concert in London. I had my fancy seats on
Speaker 3: the riser. But at a certain point it's not good
Speaker 3: enough to be fancy or renaissance.
Speaker 2: You got to go floor. You got to go to
Speaker 2: the floor.
Speaker 3: And when we did, and I was actually able to
Speaker 3: dance with folks, see up close people's signs, see up
Speaker 3: close people taping each other with their phones. It was
Speaker 3: an upside down kind of joy. It really was. And
Speaker 3: then when Blue came, we're not even discussing Blues summer
Speaker 3: of really becoming herself. You know we all have that
Speaker 3: summer too. Yes, yes, we have it at summer camp.
Speaker 3: We have it at vacation Bible School, we have it
Speaker 3: down south at our auntie's house where we're staying for
Speaker 3: the summer. We have it at band camp. Blue just
Speaker 3: happens to be having on hers on the Renaissance choir
Speaker 3: with her where if you look at her from the
Speaker 3: beginning of the tour, she was tentative, just letting the
Speaker 3: choreography begin to live in her just figuring out what
Speaker 3: she looks the most cute in, just figuring out the
Speaker 3: way she's going.
Speaker 2: To communicate with the audience.
Speaker 3: And when your parents are jay Z and Beyonce, it
Speaker 3: does get in your blood, but you still have to
Speaker 3: figure out who you are.
Speaker 2: And then to see.
Speaker 3: Her now, first of all, she looks two winches hollid,
Speaker 3: and she looked at the top of the summer. But
Speaker 3: oftentimes that happens to us. She's so confident. Now she's
Speaker 3: all the way to sassy. Now, yeah she is, am
Speaker 3: I wrong?
Speaker 1: No? No, you are not you and not She's very
Speaker 1: much living the choreography at this point.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's in her now, it's in her DNA. And
Speaker 3: just to see the way she's just beaming. Yeah, And
Speaker 3: you know, I'm gonna say that's hard work. She's learning
Speaker 3: that too, to come out on stage every night and
Speaker 3: do that, even just for the beats that she's out there, Right,
Speaker 3: she still has to go through hair and makeup, costume, rehearsals, meetings,
Speaker 3: all of those things. It's the ultimate summer job, right,
Speaker 3: And I think, right, it is all right, And I
Speaker 3: just feel that we're blessed to witness it and as
Speaker 3: private as they can be too with their kids.
Speaker 2: I think it's very intentional that they're allowing you.
Speaker 3: Imagine if you're a note year old black girl right now.
Speaker 1: Yes, those are my other favorite TikTok videos of seeing
Speaker 1: moms bring their kids to Renaiss songs and they're so
Speaker 1: excited to see Blue.
Speaker 2: It isn't the best listen if I was nine her
Speaker 2: tune right now? Would you ever forget? No? No? That
Speaker 2: may be the real summertime jam. Right there is Miss Blue.
Speaker 1: Yes, in the Ivy League as they're calling it, it's
Speaker 1: a summer being blue, right, but we're blue the summer blue.
Speaker 1: So there was so many incredible songs of the summer
Speaker 1: during your time at Vibe. So you were there from
Speaker 1: ninety four to ninety nine, So let me just list
Speaker 1: off some of the summer songs. So we had Janet
Speaker 1: Jackson with Any Time, Any Place, Aliyah Back and Forth.
Speaker 1: We had TLC Waterfalls, Mariah Carey, Always Be My Baby,
Speaker 1: Monica and Brandy The Boy Is Mine, and Destiny Chow Bills,
Speaker 1: Bill's Bills. Are there any behind the scenes stories or
Speaker 1: moments that you can remember and share from any of
Speaker 1: those songs of the summer.
Speaker 3: I don't know if I know behind the scenes of
Speaker 3: the actual songs, but I do know what it was
Speaker 3: like being in New York at that time when those
Speaker 3: songs were out and hot, and a particular one that
Speaker 3: I remember, it's not on your list, but it was
Speaker 3: Buster rhymes, put your hands on my eyes can see.
Speaker 2: Okay, let me tell you something.
Speaker 3: And Buster's on tour right now, and I know I
Speaker 3: haven't seen it, but I know he's turning it out
Speaker 3: every night. He's such a friend, he's such a legend.
Speaker 3: But the first time I heard that song, I don't
Speaker 3: even think I was a vibey. I might have still
Speaker 3: been in Billboard. There was a record release party for
Speaker 3: a Boye to Men, And if you've ever been to
Speaker 3: New York, you know what Chelsea Piers is. That's on
Speaker 3: the west side of New York. And the party was
Speaker 3: supposed to be as parties will be on the yacht
Speaker 3: that was docked in Chelsea Piers.
Speaker 2: So here I am.
Speaker 3: I'm going and it's a very snooty industry party. It's
Speaker 3: looking like in my storm. The yacht was supposed to
Speaker 3: take us up and down the Hudson River. Then they
Speaker 3: announced we're not going to take the boat out because
Speaker 3: of inclement weather. In might rain, it might be too windy,
Speaker 3: so we're just going to stay in the dot. The
Speaker 3: DJ and it was Kick Capri. He said, I have
Speaker 3: a new record, though I don't know if you all
Speaker 3: have parted. First of all, this is a boys to
Speaker 3: men party. It isn't even like a party where everybody.
Speaker 3: It wasn't even a jodasy party. Like. It was a
Speaker 3: very bougie, you know, a linen jacket, it's swaying in
Speaker 3: the wind type of boys and been party. He played
Speaker 3: put your hands where my eyes could see, and I
Speaker 3: think at first we were like, is this a real record?
Speaker 3: Like it wasn't that good. I'm not gonna say the
Speaker 3: sun came back out, but in my memory, the sun
Speaker 3: came back out and listen, folks were taking off their shoes.
Speaker 3: He must have played that song. Every time I tell
Speaker 3: the story, it is a different number. He either played
Speaker 3: that song four times, eight times, or fifteen times in
Speaker 3: a row. I don't remember at this point. But what
Speaker 3: I do remember is that I was literally wet with
Speaker 3: sweat from dancing. This is name work party. It's not
Speaker 3: the type of party that people even dance at there
Speaker 3: wasn't a proper dance floor magic like New York even
Speaker 3: at that time, I think, and maybe I felt this
Speaker 3: way too, because I was a country mouse from Oakland,
Speaker 3: California moving to the big city. But those kinds of moments,
Speaker 3: to me, are the behind the scenes moments that matter
Speaker 3: the most to me, even more than the times that
Speaker 3: I've been in the studio, because it's it's one thing
Speaker 3: to see people creating, and that's magic and it's a
Speaker 3: gift in my life and it's a privilege. But I'm
Speaker 3: not really participating except for as a witness when you
Speaker 3: hear it with other people, like we're talking about with
Speaker 3: the Renaissance shows and stuff, and you can't help us say,
Speaker 3: I'm taking my shoes off because I can't dance comfortably enough.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna dance and dance and dance. And I don't
Speaker 3: even know you, ma'am or sir. All of a sudden,
Speaker 3: we are skipping to my lou together and the sun
Speaker 3: is out, it might rain, the wind is blowing, it's summertime. Like, oh,
Speaker 3: so that's my best behind the scenes. I mean, I
Speaker 3: remember when waterfalls came out. I remember all those moments
Speaker 3: Janet Jackson, Anytime, anyplace. All of those were amazing moments.
Speaker 3: But what I really remember about those, even more than
Speaker 3: working those records as a journalist or an editor, is
Speaker 3: when I had the chance to participate and shake my
Speaker 3: own group thing.
Speaker 2: And I am not.
Speaker 3: That girl that is a good dancer. Let me tell
Speaker 3: you something. When music can make me forget that listen,
Speaker 3: then that's my song.
Speaker 1: And right very much summer music vibes, then.
Speaker 2: That's my song.
Speaker 3: If you make me forget any awkwardness that I might
Speaker 3: feel about myself or my body or how I move
Speaker 3: or any of those things, that's when something becomes well,
Speaker 3: that's my song, because that's what it's doing for me.
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break. So you started
Speaker 1: off pretty early in this conversation talking about how Barbie
Speaker 1: World was a quintessential summer or song. What else about
Speaker 1: music this summer has been special for you? What do
Speaker 1: you think has been special about this summer's music lineup?
Speaker 2: It's this other song? What is her name? Gucci? Gucci?
Speaker 2: What what it is? Yes?
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, wait a minute, Okay, I am too
Speaker 3: much in these Instagram streets. If that song soundtracks one
Speaker 3: more real. I'm gonna have to fight everybody. But it's
Speaker 3: so good though, And then I didn't realize until just
Speaker 3: this morning, when I was preparing for our conversation, I
Speaker 3: was like, why would love this song so much? I mean, obviously,
Speaker 3: Ducie has an amazing voice, has such a sweet, little
Speaker 3: confident lilt to it or something like. I love it.
Speaker 3: But I'm like, but what else is it about this record?
Speaker 3: And I said him, who produced?
Speaker 2: Who wrote? Who produced? So why is it? Somebody name
Speaker 2: J White did it? And the thing is, you know
Speaker 2: what else? He produced?
Speaker 3: Bodak Yellow and I like It from Cardi b Oh wow,
Speaker 3: both of those songs are what diamond singles. Mister White
Speaker 3: has a little bit of a hot hand right now,
Speaker 3: doesn't he clearly?
Speaker 2: And then he.
Speaker 3: Also produced the Savage remix for Megan Beyonce. Oh so,
Speaker 3: wait a minute. This is a sweet creative partnership. And
Speaker 3: now I think that it's going to be way beyond
Speaker 3: just a great summer song because this person has these
Speaker 3: diamond credentials and if they work this out right, we
Speaker 3: could still be jamming this song three four years from now,
Speaker 3: like it's new.
Speaker 2: So I love that. What are the other ones? That
Speaker 2: I'm loving mine, Oh you know what I love.
Speaker 3: And I can't believe I'm saying it because she has
Speaker 3: acted a fool on so many occasions. I'm covering my
Speaker 3: eyes because I don't even want to look you in
Speaker 3: my eyes right now when I say this, it's that
Speaker 3: damn Miley cyrus and that I can I can give
Speaker 3: myself flower.
Speaker 2: Listen.
Speaker 1: It is catchy, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Though.
Speaker 3: I am passing the flowers at Trader Joe's, like, I
Speaker 3: can give myself some flowers, like seriously, like, and I'm like,
Speaker 3: she goes too far, but she says she can hold
Speaker 3: her own hand or something like.
Speaker 2: Girl, you said I stepped too far. I don't want
Speaker 2: to hold my own hand now.
Speaker 3: But there is something so powerful about I can get
Speaker 3: my own flowers for myself. And I'm a straight girl.
Speaker 3: I love getting flowers from my man. It's wonderful.
Speaker 2: But it's not everything. It's not everything.
Speaker 3: And to hear it said so clearly, and because it's
Speaker 3: the hook the title of the song, you can't hide
Speaker 3: from it.
Speaker 2: You don't have to look for it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's a beautiful sentiment for my Honestly, it's
Speaker 3: a beautiful sentiment it's so strong and beautiful at the
Speaker 3: same time. That's a summer summer song right there. That's
Speaker 3: a skipping down the street song right there.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Like it's almost as good as what's my other one,
Speaker 3: I'm Walking on Sunshine.
Speaker 2: Y'all can hate on me if you want to. Here's
Speaker 2: the thing, I don't care.
Speaker 1: Do We girls have our own individual versions of what
Speaker 1: feels like somewhere.
Speaker 2: Right I'm walking on Sunshine and it shot feels up. Girl.
Speaker 3: Listen if I look, this is the therapy for Michael Show.
Speaker 3: I've made no secret about the fact that I am
Speaker 3: a depressive, like I'm always dealing with that, and I'm
Speaker 3: happy to be able to even say that right now
Speaker 3: with a smile on my face, because I used to
Speaker 3: not be able to. But sometimes music, and I think
Speaker 3: sometimes that's why it's been such a partner to me
Speaker 3: in my life.
Speaker 2: When I hear a song like.
Speaker 3: Walking on Sunshine, it does something to the chemistry in
Speaker 3: my body, It does something to my mood. I'm not
Speaker 3: saying it's medicinal. I'm not saying it takes the place
Speaker 3: of therapy, but I'm saying it will function for me
Speaker 3: as such a boost, though it will function for me
Speaker 3: as such a like I'm going through it. I'm going
Speaker 3: through it. I'm going through it, but this is helping
Speaker 3: me get through it. And that's whether it's something as
Speaker 3: joyous as I'm Walking on Sunshine or Hot Girl Summer.
Speaker 3: But sometimes we need a little in my life, my life,
Speaker 3: mym you know, and that helps as well.
Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm gonna list of some other summer projects
Speaker 1: to get your thoughts. What about Sexy rids Hood, how
Speaker 1: this princiss o Why?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: Okay, And that's my whole answer right there. Also why
Speaker 2: she's that cute ooh, I love them.
Speaker 1: So somebody else who I think is also really tapping
Speaker 1: into the heart of R and B right now is
Speaker 1: Victoria Monique with Jaguard too.
Speaker 2: Let me tell you about her. Okay.
Speaker 3: First of all, the music again, we go back to
Speaker 3: what we were talking about, conversations between generations. She's so
Speaker 3: clearly influenced by the music of the seventies and early
Speaker 3: eighties that if you were actually there, I was a kid,
Speaker 3: but still it pulls you in regardless of your age,
Speaker 3: because you can find an entry point like you can
Speaker 3: find it, and then if you're like with her age wise,
Speaker 3: you don't have to have heard that music from back then, you.
Speaker 2: Don't have to know who the emotions are.
Speaker 3: You can just be into it for what she's doing
Speaker 3: because it does belong completely to her. Still, I did
Speaker 3: a panel at one point, moderated a panel of black
Speaker 3: women creators, and she was on the panel. And the
Speaker 3: way her human energy, the way she presents in person,
Speaker 3: is so chill and calming. It was giving shade, to
Speaker 3: be honest, Wow, it was giving sophisticated.
Speaker 2: It was a little bit giving. Y'all are lucky you
Speaker 2: have time for this.
Speaker 3: And I'm not mad at that because she has songs
Speaker 3: to write and things to do.
Speaker 2: But I say all that.
Speaker 3: To say I love the songs, but I also just
Speaker 3: love very much right now, the idea of her.
Speaker 2: I love black women making rhythm and blues.
Speaker 3: I love black women who understand what pop actually means.
Speaker 3: That it doesn't necessarily mean that something has to sound
Speaker 3: like a pop song. It means you just going for
Speaker 3: the biggest and the most. I hear that ambition in
Speaker 3: her music, you know. So she's out of here, So
Speaker 3: see her now before the tickets are a geopop because
Speaker 3: they will be so she's that girl.
Speaker 1: Agreed, Yes, agreed. Okay. What about Janelle Monee's The Age
Speaker 1: of Pleasure.
Speaker 2: Let me tell you about her, Okay.
Speaker 3: Janelle Monee is an alien like the Voice the Chops.
Speaker 3: As an actor, I will never forget her portraying that
Speaker 3: scientist in Hidden Figures, the way she was able to
Speaker 3: capture the joy of her partner in that film, giving
Speaker 3: her those pencils to support her work and the efforts
Speaker 3: that she was making. She didn't go like crazy, like
Speaker 3: a cheerleader or anything like that. It was just this
Speaker 3: quiet inner joy of like this person sees me. And
Speaker 3: I've been in the presence of Jenne Monee and I
Speaker 3: feel like that's her energy in real life. I feel
Speaker 3: like she sees us. I hear it in her music.
Speaker 3: I see it in her work in Hollywood. I see
Speaker 3: in the way she runs her business called Wonderland, her
Speaker 3: creative collective. In the dancing in the Clothes, We've seen
Speaker 3: the evolution from the discipline of I will only wear
Speaker 3: black and white. I will only wear black and white
Speaker 3: because I'm not even here to have the surface of me.
Speaker 2: I'm not here for that even to be discussed.
Speaker 3: It's just gonna be black and white, and then we've
Speaker 3: seen how she's moved all the way over then to
Speaker 3: so much color and so much big design to them
Speaker 3: like and also, I'm free with my body.
Speaker 2: Now you all won't see my body.
Speaker 3: Y'all can see it because it's all that so again,
Speaker 3: like maybe it's just all the girls whose last name
Speaker 3: is gonnaame.
Speaker 1: They're having a moment on it being having a.
Speaker 2: Whole moment completely they are.
Speaker 1: They are okay one more so, what about fly on
Speaker 1: a boss?
Speaker 2: If you wish all the way over my head? No
Speaker 2: idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: So these are the two little sisters on teach.
Speaker 2: Oh you're about them?
Speaker 3: No, I love them girls just to know their name,
Speaker 3: not hello Christ, I'm about to sitity.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, girl.
Speaker 3: They're invited to any girl they can come by right
Speaker 3: now for breakfast.
Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? Those girls? And then now they
Speaker 2: have to deal with the WNBA.
Speaker 3: I use this word a lot of times when I
Speaker 3: speak about black women's work because we don't get the
Speaker 3: credit for it. The amount of planning and discipline and
Speaker 3: execution that I see in everything that they're doing it
Speaker 3: is brilliant.
Speaker 2: It is the commitment. This is the commitment too.
Speaker 3: You know how many people probably have told them, Okay,
Speaker 3: you guys have done that, so you guys can try
Speaker 3: something else.
Speaker 2: No, we're doing this. We're doing this till it all
Speaker 2: the way kills over and dies.
Speaker 3: We are doing this. People love this also, you can
Speaker 3: see by the way they are running down the street
Speaker 3: like bulls. I love to see it. The joy and
Speaker 3: the strength get of my way, my way also in
Speaker 3: the black community, to have the nerve to be saying, hello, Christ,
Speaker 3: you know something.
Speaker 1: Somebody's grandma was mad.
Speaker 3: Right now, I'm about to sin again. Listen the way
Speaker 3: I love them. And it feels so.
Speaker 2: I could be totally wrong about this. I do not know.
Speaker 3: It feels so lifted from the first line of a
Speaker 3: journal injury, because honey, I think we've all written those
Speaker 3: two sentences at the top of a journal entry with
Speaker 3: different words, whether it's greetings Jesus, whether it's a lah,
Speaker 3: whether it's hello Universe, whether it's I'm about to f
Speaker 3: up again, whether it's why am I doing this again?
Speaker 3: That sentiment of I'm trying and at the same time
Speaker 3: I don't care. It is so free to be lifted
Speaker 3: from the journal, to be lifted from the interior to
Speaker 3: being the exterior and to be executed with all that physicality.
Speaker 3: Listen to me, I'm so mad I didn't know who
Speaker 3: they were. And please leave that in there because I'm
Speaker 3: dead wrong.
Speaker 2: But I'll tell you what. I know that song, though
Speaker 2: you do. I know that song and I live for it.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, okay. So this may be a hard question.
Speaker 1: So what would you say, definitively is your song of
Speaker 1: the Summer for twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3: It wasn't released in the summer, but people are playing
Speaker 3: it like it was and it's kill Bill From says.
Speaker 1: I, Oh, I'm still that Okay.
Speaker 3: I'm so mature. I'm so mature. I wrote about her
Speaker 3: for the New York Times magazine. I visited her at
Speaker 3: her home in Malibu. To get there, unless you know
Speaker 3: a secret way that I don't know, you have to
Speaker 3: ride up Pacific Coast Highway.
Speaker 2: It's literally named.
Speaker 3: Always as one of the most beautiful highways in the
Speaker 3: entire world. And to me, that song just evokes just that,
Speaker 3: driving up Pacifico's Highway with the top down, having done
Speaker 3: something that you probably shouldn't have and you're a little
Speaker 3: bit chastising yourself, but you're all the way enjoying yourself.
Speaker 3: There's something about Scissor's voice two in general, but particularly
Speaker 3: in this song, in her songwriting that's just kind of fearless.
Speaker 3: I could see how that song could be written and
Speaker 3: it could not be say, chosen for the album that
Speaker 3: it sounds maybe a little goofy, a little unfinished, little
Speaker 3: rough around the edges. And that's just why it is
Speaker 3: such a summer song.
Speaker 2: It's just free. It's just free.
Speaker 3: It's another one, and it's so great for black women's
Speaker 3: singers right now, that the things that we struggle with
Speaker 3: the most, things that again we just commit to our girlfriends,
Speaker 3: maybe over brunch or in our group chats or in
Speaker 3: our journals, whether you're typing them or writing them down.
Speaker 3: These feelings that people feel like, well, do black women
Speaker 3: even feel that way?
Speaker 2: Y'all are so strong. Y'all just get it, y'all get
Speaker 2: things done.
Speaker 3: You guys, just manage situations are coming from our partners.
Speaker 2: Well, you don't need me because you've got this. Sure.
Speaker 2: It's all true, and it's a lot. It's a lot.
Speaker 3: So to see these innermost feelings coming out that aren't
Speaker 3: even necessarily about the other, right, but about a black
Speaker 3: woman's own self and own heart. Those are the songs
Speaker 3: that I'm responding to. Whether it's as we just mentioned,
Speaker 3: Hello Christ, I'm about to sin again, or whether it's like,
Speaker 3: you know, you just keep somebody's car, honey, not that
Speaker 3: I know anything about that, and you've got away with it, and.
Speaker 2: You know you're wrong, you know you're wrong.
Speaker 3: You're like, I'm so mature, You're being sarcastic with yourself.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, it's like, I was mad, though,
Speaker 3: and you did do that to me. And I'm not
Speaker 3: saying it's writer or it's okay to quote Whitney Houston,
Speaker 3: but what is okay it's for black women to be
Speaker 3: saying how they feel about themselves. So often we're singing
Speaker 3: about I miss you so much, I'm gonna love you forever,
Speaker 3: I'm want to jump on the midnight train to Georgia,
Speaker 3: come back to me child, anytime, anyplace. And all these
Speaker 3: are beautiful songs. I could listen to them in a
Speaker 3: row right now, be happy for the rest of the day.
Speaker 3: But sometimes what's missing is us singing about how we
Speaker 3: feel about ourselves.
Speaker 2: And it's happening now.
Speaker 3: I think a lot of the energy of rap and
Speaker 3: women in rap is spilling over into women in R
Speaker 3: and B in black pop.
Speaker 2: That I'm talking about me, what's going on with me?
Speaker 3: Good, bad or otherwise mature or immature, and it's delicious,
Speaker 3: it's heartening.
Speaker 1: I love that. That's a beautiful answer. So Danyelle will
Speaker 1: remind the community where we can stay connected with you.
Speaker 1: It is your website as well as any social media
Speaker 1: channels you want to share.
Speaker 2: I am Danielle Smith and that is spelled d A
Speaker 2: and y E L. Smith.
Speaker 3: You can find me at what remains of Twitter. You
Speaker 3: can find me on Facebook, but I'm there rarely. If
Speaker 3: you really want to find me, come on over to Instagram,
Speaker 3: come on over to threads, come on over to spill,
Speaker 3: come on over to Spoutable. I'm there either as Danamo
Speaker 3: Da n A m O, which is my high school
Speaker 3: nickname Danamo because I was such a little Dynamo if
Speaker 3: you can imagine, and you can also find me. Just
Speaker 3: google Danielle Smith and shine Bright and you will find
Speaker 3: the thing that I'm most proud of, which is my book,
Speaker 3: Shine Bright, which is a very personal history of black
Speaker 3: women in pop music. It was named by Pitchwork as
Speaker 3: the music book of twenty twenty two, and it's the
Speaker 3: nearest and dearest thing to my heart. And if you
Speaker 3: want to hear my voice talking so much mess as
Speaker 3: I'm talking here with Doctor Joy, you can also just
Speaker 3: go to Spotify search Black Girl's Songbook and you can
Speaker 3: hear my podcast where I'm always telling stories about black
Speaker 3: women in music and also about myself as a black
Speaker 3: woman in music, as the former editor in chief of
Speaker 3: Vibe and Billboard and all the many things that I've done.
Speaker 1: Indeed, we will be sure to include all of that
Speaker 1: in the show notes. Thank you so much for spending
Speaker 1: more time with us today. Always talk so fun. I'm
Speaker 1: so glad Danielle was able to join us once again
Speaker 1: to share her expertise. To learn more about her and
Speaker 1: her work, or to grab your copy of Shine Bright,
Speaker 1: visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot Com
Speaker 1: slash Session three twenty three, and don't forget to text
Speaker 1: two of your girls right now and encourage them to
Speaker 1: check out the episode. If you're looking for a therapist
Speaker 1: in your area, check out our therapist directory at Therapy
Speaker 1: for Blackgirls dot Com slash directory. And if you want
Speaker 1: to continue digging into this topic, or just be in
Speaker 1: community with other sisters. Come on over and join us
Speaker 1: in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the
Speaker 1: Internet designed just for black women. You can join us
Speaker 1: at Community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This episode
Speaker 1: was produced by Frida Lucas, Elise Ellis, and Zaria Taylor.
Speaker 1: Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much
Speaker 1: for joining me again this week. I look forward to
Speaker 1: continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care.
Speaker 1: Which friend are you and your sister circle? Are you
Speaker 1: the wallflower, the peacemaker, the firecracker or the leader? Take
Speaker 1: the quiz at Sisterhoodheels dot com slash quiz to find out,
Speaker 1: and then make sure to grab your copy of Sisterhood
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