Speaker 1: Pushkin.
Speaker 2: Hey, dream listeners, if you like this podcast, you're gonna
Speaker 2: love the book.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I wrote a book. It's called Selling the Dream and
Speaker 2: it's coming out March twelfth, twenty twenty four, on Atria.
Speaker 2: It's about all of your favorite characters from MLMs and
Speaker 2: some that you've never even heard of. I hope check
Speaker 2: it out. He's a hypnotherapist.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 2: He does NLP neural linguistic programming, which I don't think
Speaker 2: is a real thing. I mean it's a real thing
Speaker 2: and that people like claim that they know that they're
Speaker 2: educated in it, but it's a pseudoscience, right.
Speaker 3: I mean, isn't it normally associated with cult in manipulation. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's how it's going to Yeah, and.
Speaker 4: I recognized it as neural linguistic programming. And then he
Speaker 4: started to use all of these tactics like in control,
Speaker 4: behavior control, emotional control. He started like telling us what
Speaker 4: emotions were acceptable and one's what we're not, And like
Speaker 4: my brain was like firing on all cylinders, like I'm
Speaker 4: like I could. I was just like checking off everything
Speaker 4: that I was reading about. He is emotionally manipulating us
Speaker 4: right now. He is controlling us.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's get back into that whole mindset thing. But
Speaker 2: all life coaches rely.
Speaker 5: On when you tell your mind what's important to you.
Speaker 5: There is extraordinary science that proves that your mind has
Speaker 5: a live and ever changing filter, a live network that
Speaker 5: changes how it views the world, what it lets in,
Speaker 5: what it blocks out. And if you program your mind correctly,
Speaker 5: and if you're clear about what you want to create,
Speaker 5: your mind will help you get what you want.
Speaker 1: Why don't they watch your language? Are our words shape
Speaker 1: the way we think and how we feel, and how
Speaker 1: we feel determines what we do, and what we do
Speaker 1: determines whether they get results or not. I'm talking about
Speaker 1: being aware that there are certain words that you use,
Speaker 1: everyone individually uses that puts you your energy up and
Speaker 1: some that put it down. Certain words and phrases start
Speaker 1: to limit you. Certain words and phrases free you. By
Speaker 1: transforming the words you use regularly, you literally change your biochemistry,
Speaker 1: your emotions, your thinking, and your actions.
Speaker 6: Let's say you decide to make some chocolate chip cookies.
Speaker 6: You get out a bowl, You add the milk, you
Speaker 6: add the flour, the brown sugar, the egg. But what
Speaker 6: have I told you that the cookies changed the way
Speaker 6: they tasted based on the bowl you picked. That's what
Speaker 6: language is. Language does not just communicate emotion, It shapes
Speaker 6: what we're feeling.
Speaker 2: That was mel Robin's Tony Robins and Burnet Brown who
Speaker 2: forgot to add chocolate chips to that chocolate chip cookie recipe.
Speaker 2: That was a weird metaphor for something. What all this
Speaker 2: sounds like to me is manifesting or envisioning or whatever.
Speaker 2: But the keywords they're using are brain and language and programming.
Speaker 2: The combination of those three things, the way you think,
Speaker 2: the words you use, and the stuff you've been programmed
Speaker 2: to believe. It has a name all the experts know,
Speaker 2: neuro linguistic programming, or NLP. Tony Robbins is an outright
Speaker 2: proponent and expert in NLP, and it has seeped into
Speaker 2: almost every corner of the coaching world. But the scientific
Speaker 2: world says it's complete huey, which made it really hard
Speaker 2: to find someone reputable to talk about it. Academics simply
Speaker 2: don't take it seriously. The first sentence on Wikipedia's page
Speaker 2: about NLP reads neuro linguistic programming. NLP is a pseudoscientific
Speaker 2: approach to communication, personal development, and psychotherapy. So the Tony Robbins,
Speaker 2: the expensive workshops, the pseudoscience. I mean, NLP is not
Speaker 2: great at being taken seriously, at least by me, just
Speaker 2: like weed, but there's no ignoring its impact on coaching.
Speaker 2: Finally I found someone who said they would for free
Speaker 2: help me understand this thing, John James Santangelo.
Speaker 3: Before we get started, I listened to a couple of
Speaker 3: your episodes. Huh, you're you're You're like you're tough. Oh,
Speaker 3: I'm like, you're gonna ask hard questions. I'm giving it
Speaker 3: back to you.
Speaker 2: I can't wait.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: John has written a book called Discovering NLP. Introduction to
Speaker 2: the Basic Principles of NLP, and if I were his
Speaker 2: copy editor, I wouldn't have let him put NLP in
Speaker 2: the title twice. But anyway, luckily John lives nearby enough
Speaker 2: to be here with me in person. Perhaps that was
Speaker 2: my first mistake.
Speaker 3: I started out, probably like most people, looking for answers,
Speaker 3: and I started my psychology degree and going that direction.
Speaker 3: I'm like, no, don't want to do that. I can't
Speaker 3: sit in the room for eight hours with people and
Speaker 3: just listen to people complain. I'm not that kind of person.
Speaker 3: I'm the kind of person. If we communicate and you
Speaker 3: tell me what the problem is and I have a solution,
Speaker 3: I'm going to kick you in the ass to tell
Speaker 3: you how to do it. I found NLP, after I
Speaker 3: found Tony Robbins, and I got certified. Then I went
Speaker 3: on to different instructors around the country and then finished
Speaker 3: my degree. Just finished my PhD in clinical hypnosis. I
Speaker 3: started doing that and I don't need that. I just
Speaker 3: wanted the PhD. After my name looks good on the book.
Speaker 2: Doctor John James Santangelo, PhD. Is not a huge fan
Speaker 2: of traditional talk therapy, especially the Freudian kind. Neither were
Speaker 2: the men who invented neuro linguistic programming.
Speaker 3: When we come to the conclusion that we don't know
Speaker 3: what we're doing and we go to seek help outside
Speaker 3: of ourselves, we usually go to a therapist, and up
Speaker 3: until the forties, fifties and sixties, that's all there was.
Speaker 3: There was no other type of tradition therapy. So these
Speaker 3: two gentlemen the University of Santa Cruz. One was a mathematician,
Speaker 3: is a genius.
Speaker 2: So there were these two guys that you see Santa
Speaker 2: Cruz in the seventies. These two guys Their names are
Speaker 2: John Grinder and Richard Bandler. Bandler was studying psychology and
Speaker 2: Grinder was a linguistics professor. And I don't know if
Speaker 2: you know what you see Santa Cruz in the seventies
Speaker 2: as shorthand for, but it's like hippie tippy thinking, and
Speaker 2: a lot of it was great. Together, they decided to
Speaker 2: cook up a new method of essentially helping people feel
Speaker 2: better and do better and like achieve their dreams and
Speaker 2: stuff without dwelling on the past. They wanted action steps,
Speaker 2: they wanted forward thinking, they wanted formulas, they wanted cheat
Speaker 2: codes to happiness and success. But back to our discussion,
Speaker 2: I just want to warn you this was one of
Speaker 2: the most frustrating, overwhelming, yet utterly mesmerizing interviews I've ever done.
Speaker 2: What is neuro linguistic.
Speaker 3: Prog Well, neural linguistic program means neuro the mind body connection,
Speaker 3: because we know they're connected and we can't work on
Speaker 3: one without the other. Then the linguistic part is language,
Speaker 3: the language that we talk to ourselves, like you're doing
Speaker 3: right now, you're asking questions or making comments in your head,
Speaker 3: and how you communicate with the language with others outside
Speaker 3: of yourself, and then the programming. It is a process.
Speaker 3: There processes, but the programming comes from like a computer,
Speaker 3: a computer is a blank hard drive until we install software,
Speaker 3: which is we are programming the computer the same way
Speaker 3: that we program our children. Children come into the world.
Speaker 3: We all do with blank hard drives. We're surrounded by
Speaker 3: our primary care takers. That's usually your parents are one parent,
Speaker 3: could be your grandparents that brought you up if you
Speaker 3: are brought up in a foster care, right, those become
Speaker 3: your primary care caretakers. Then they download their software, their beliefs,
Speaker 3: their behaviors, their modalities, how they function, how they communicate
Speaker 3: onto our hard drive.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you're thinking of the brain as we're all
Speaker 2: born with a blank hard drive. And then tell me
Speaker 2: where the linguistic programming comes at, Like where does it
Speaker 2: get okay, good programmed incorrectly.
Speaker 3: Or well, who decides that what's correct? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Well I'm a mom, so I.
Speaker 3: Do you as the individual decides if they did it
Speaker 3: right or they did it exactly. But when and how
Speaker 3: Usually when you run into a block wall or you
Speaker 3: run into a problem, so we don't really figure out
Speaker 3: until sometime later on in life. Usually it's probably in
Speaker 3: your twenties. After you get out of school or college,
Speaker 3: you start having to live your life, get a job,
Speaker 3: maybe you're in a committed relation, whatever that is, and
Speaker 3: you figure out this is not working for me. So
Speaker 3: when we get to that stage of figuring out this
Speaker 3: is not working, what do most people do.
Speaker 2: Go to therapy?
Speaker 1: Some?
Speaker 2: Well most, oh, you asked, most, I don't know.
Speaker 3: So when we come to the conclusion of things aren't
Speaker 3: working in our life, we try to fix things ourselves,
Speaker 3: and a lot of the times, how could you know
Speaker 3: what to do when all you know is the way
Speaker 3: that you've been doing it. If you only have one
Speaker 3: way of making a cake and it completely turns out
Speaker 3: bad every time, and somebody says your cake sucks, it
Speaker 3: tastes bad, and you go back in too make another cake,
Speaker 3: but you only know one way to make it, how
Speaker 3: are you expecting to produce something different? So that's when
Speaker 3: most people go to traditional therapy. The co creators with
Speaker 3: NLP decided, if the problem was bad the first time,
Speaker 3: talking about it over and over and over again isn't
Speaker 3: going to make it better. So we look at problems
Speaker 3: like that and go, how can I solve that? And
Speaker 3: you solve it what we call a transderrivational search. We
Speaker 3: go what trans derivational search?
Speaker 2: Okay, this is another term those guys made up at
Speaker 2: UC Santa Cruz, which is a fancy way of saying
Speaker 2: remembering something a transer.
Speaker 3: We go back into a past. We pull up that
Speaker 3: video of how we did it before. We bring it
Speaker 3: in front of us and go, ah, that's how I
Speaker 3: do it, and you do it again and then you
Speaker 3: don't get the result. Your brain goes, well, let me
Speaker 3: go back into the past, see if I can try
Speaker 3: something else. But everything you've tried doesn't work. You're still
Speaker 3: looking at the same problem with the solution that you've
Speaker 3: been dealing with the entire time. Okay, Now, hopefully if
Speaker 3: a good therapist will come along, we'll allow you to
Speaker 3: come up with the solution. But most people don't. That's
Speaker 3: why they keep going back to the same therapists year
Speaker 3: after you have after year.
Speaker 2: How does it work?
Speaker 1: Like? What is?
Speaker 3: Okay? I give you here? It is so we study
Speaker 3: what's called modeling, because NLP is about modeling success. And
Speaker 3: then there's a strategy or recipe or a program that
Speaker 3: they implemented themselves, and usually they don't even know what
Speaker 3: it is. But we in NLP can model their success
Speaker 3: by their beliefs, their internal language, and the physiological processes
Speaker 3: they went through. If I can map those out, then
Speaker 3: I can take that model now that I have and
Speaker 3: teach it to somebody else.
Speaker 2: But like I don't understand, what do you use?
Speaker 3: Okay? So our world or map is made up of
Speaker 3: our five senses, okay, okay, there are two million bits
Speaker 3: of information coming into our brain every second. Things you're
Speaker 3: not even aware of, the way your feet feeling your shoe,
Speaker 3: the way your fingers it's touching your eye, your your headphone,
Speaker 3: the taste in your mouth, the things that you're saying.
Speaker 3: Your internal processes. You're not aware of those until I
Speaker 3: bring them up. So those two million bits come in,
Speaker 3: but the brain chunks them down to seven plus or
Speaker 3: minus two.
Speaker 2: How do you know that?
Speaker 3: Because their studies done. Miller Glant on nineteen fifty seven
Speaker 3: did a study and he said that we can only
Speaker 3: process seven bits of information at a time, the length
Speaker 3: of a phone number. Coincidence, No, so.
Speaker 2: This information they didn't as they weren't always I know.
Speaker 3: I know, but it's funny. How coincidence?
Speaker 2: That's what I said I'm going to jump in here
Speaker 2: and correct John. It was actually a nineteen fifty six paper,
Speaker 2: not nineteen fifty seven. It came out of Harvard, and
Speaker 2: there's been some recent scholarship about how beautifully written it was,
Speaker 2: entertaining and well received. It begins, My problem is that
Speaker 2: I've been persecuted by an integer for seven years. This
Speaker 2: number has followed me around, has intruded my most private data,
Speaker 2: and has assaulted me from the pages of our most
Speaker 2: public journals. This number assumes a variety of disguises, being
Speaker 2: sometimes a little larger and sometimes a little smaller than usual,
Speaker 2: but never changing so much as to be unrecognizable. The
Speaker 2: persistence with which this number plagues me is far more
Speaker 2: than a random accident. There is, to quote a famous senator,
Speaker 2: a design behind it, some pattern governing its appearances. Either
Speaker 2: there really is something unusual about the number, or else
Speaker 2: I am suffering from delusions of persecution. The author, George Miller,
Speaker 2: was so delightful in his approach that his conclusion, based
Speaker 2: on dozens of real studies he references in the paper,
Speaker 2: might have haltered further progress of study into that area
Speaker 2: for quite some time. In twenty fifteen, Nelson Cohen, a
Speaker 2: professor at the University of Missouri, wrote a paper called
Speaker 2: George Miller's Magical Number of Immediate Memory in retros Observations
Speaker 2: on the faltering progression of science. Can't you tell us
Speaker 2: what you really think? Nelson? Well, he does quote. It
Speaker 2: was oddly followed by rather little research on the numerical
Speaker 2: limit of capacity in working memory. Given that the article
Speaker 2: was written in a humorous tone and it was framed
Speaker 2: around a tongue in cheek premise, I argued that it
Speaker 2: may have inadvertently stymied progress on these topics as researchers
Speaker 2: attempted to avoid ridicule. Great, moving on anyway.
Speaker 3: Okay, so all this information is coming in. You're outside,
Speaker 3: you're driving your car, whatever it is, talking to your daughter.
Speaker 3: All this information is coming in. We distill it down
Speaker 3: to seven pieces, but we have to filter it first,
Speaker 3: and it's filtered through our beliefs, our decisions, our past,
Speaker 3: our attitudes, our values, and our memories. Yeah, what shows
Speaker 3: up on the other side of that is what we
Speaker 3: call an internal representation. Now I'm gonna give you an
Speaker 3: exactly understand. I'm going to give you a word, which
Speaker 3: is you don't know the word. Yet it is outside
Speaker 3: of you. It is gonna be one of those pieces
Speaker 3: of information coming in. You're gonna make meaning of it
Speaker 3: by distilling it and filtering it through all your stuff. Okay,
Speaker 3: and then when I point to you, I want you
Speaker 3: to say the first thing that comes to mind. Okay,
Speaker 3: the word is dog gross gross. Okay, that's funny because
Speaker 3: not that it doesn't matter about Okay. So this event
Speaker 3: comes in, we filter it, we make some internal representation
Speaker 3: of what it is. It changes our state, our state
Speaker 3: of mind. I'll give an example.
Speaker 2: Now I'm thinking about how gross dogs are.
Speaker 3: Yes, so that changes your internal state. Now I'm gonna
Speaker 3: give you a more complex word love hate. Who Now,
Speaker 3: I look at what's funny, audience. I just saw this
Speaker 3: look on her face and it was an emotional response
Speaker 3: to hate. No, I don't know what it is.
Speaker 2: If you could describe you, all of.
Speaker 3: A sudden, everything got sucked out of you. It just
Speaker 3: went like that, like you just did it again. So
Speaker 3: we have this emotional response, which you did it again.
Speaker 3: So the event comes in, you filter it, you get
Speaker 3: an emotion. It changes. Yeah, you go stand up, stand up,
Speaker 3: say deep breath, think of your daughter. What you're wearing today.
Speaker 3: Good to sit down there, you go. I just change
Speaker 3: your state. Okay, So the emotion comes in, it changed
Speaker 3: our state, changed our physiology, and we behave through that
Speaker 3: physiology like you just did. You went, that's a behavior.
Speaker 3: This is going on every nanosecond of our experience in life.
Speaker 3: As I communicate lights coming in, you're hearing other things,
Speaker 3: you're talking to yourself. This is all events into your
Speaker 3: mind filtered through those responses that you had in the past.
Speaker 3: You get an emotional feeling from it. It changes your
Speaker 3: physiology and we behave. That is how we do things.
Speaker 2: So okay, So had you not had me stand up
Speaker 2: and think about what the stupid output my kid picked out,
Speaker 2: had you not had me do that, you.
Speaker 3: Would have been stuck in that negative state. Really yeah,
Speaker 3: and you can't impy yet, No, not grumpy, you were
Speaker 3: just like ugh. I watched you loop through it three times. Now,
Speaker 3: here's what I meant by the state and physiology. You're interchangeable.
Speaker 3: When you feel an emotion, it changes your body. But
Speaker 3: also when you change your body, it changes your emotion.
Speaker 2: Okay, tell me examples of that.
Speaker 3: What I just had you do, I said, stand up,
Speaker 3: think of your daughter and you still all of a
Speaker 3: sudden started smiling. You threw your shoulders back, your chin
Speaker 3: like you took a deep breath, and all of a
Speaker 3: sudden everything went ah and you got this enlightened feeling.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So one of the things Tony Robbins talks about is
Speaker 3: when you're in a negative state, and there's plenty of
Speaker 3: words that can represent that negative state. Don't sit in it,
Speaker 3: don't dwell in it, get up and move. That's how
Speaker 3: easy it is. Do you understand, here's the problem with life.
Speaker 3: This is the problem. We're not taught how to put
Speaker 3: ourselves in a good mood. We know how to put
Speaker 3: ourselves in a bad mood. Just think of something that
Speaker 3: we don't like, or that happened in a past, or
Speaker 3: something that's coming up that's going to give us anxiety.
Speaker 3: All of a sudden, bam, we get the emotion, our
Speaker 3: physiology changes, and we behave It's sad. It's sad that
Speaker 3: we're not taught that if you change your body, you
Speaker 3: can change your state.
Speaker 2: Do I have to be doing this all the time?
Speaker 2: So what is the lpet Jesus? Because I just want
Speaker 2: you to.
Speaker 3: Let me give you a process. One of the most
Speaker 3: powerful ways to change your world is to change your
Speaker 3: internal dialogue. Now, I'm only going to give you three
Speaker 3: examples here, Oh my god, thousands all right, because they're
Speaker 3: just all words, right, because every word holds power. Right.
Speaker 3: So here's one of the things I teach my students.
Speaker 3: The first three words, which are very easy because we
Speaker 3: use them all the time, especially in America. One is
Speaker 3: called the negation. It's the word but, okay, And I'll
Speaker 3: give you an example of a negation. A negation is
Speaker 3: like don't, shouldn't, can't, instead of using the word but, God, Jane,
Speaker 3: I am having so much fun here. But it doesn't
Speaker 3: matter what comes after that, because your mind only heard
Speaker 3: the negation, and that's how we normally talk to ourselves.
Speaker 3: So here's the challenge. We are ag a nation of negations.
Speaker 3: And you're going to find, now that I said it,
Speaker 3: if you're aware and you truly want to make a
Speaker 3: change in your life, how many times you use the
Speaker 3: word butt in your life. It's horribly bad. It's horribly bad,
Speaker 3: and it's a negation. God, I just I want to
Speaker 3: spend so much time with you and I love you
Speaker 3: so much, But it doesn't matter what's said after that,
Speaker 3: And that's how we communicate. So use a causal linkage.
Speaker 3: It's called a causal linkage, the word and it presupposes
Speaker 3: a connection to and of I really want to spend time.
Speaker 3: I love you so much. And now you're waiting for
Speaker 3: the next thing because it's going to support, because it's
Speaker 3: going to support what I just said, rather than negate.
Speaker 3: Does that make sense? Okay, So change the word butt,
Speaker 3: use the word and instead next word the word try.
Speaker 3: Now here's the here's the example. So Jane, try to
Speaker 3: take the pin.
Speaker 2: John picks up my pen and holds it in his
Speaker 2: open palm right in front of my face. So I
Speaker 2: grab it.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, you're not listening. I didn't say take
Speaker 3: the pen. I said try and take the pen. So
Speaker 3: go ahead, try to take the pin. No no, no, you're
Speaker 3: not taking the pen. I didn't say not take the pen.
Speaker 3: I said try and take the pin. And that's what
Speaker 3: people do. This think like this, back and forth, back
Speaker 3: and forth. But you're still not taking the pins. That
Speaker 3: makes sense. You're either taking the pen or you're not
Speaker 3: taking the pin. There's no try to take the pin, yoda.
Speaker 2: We're all thinking it. What John's saying here is basically
Speaker 2: that words matter and have an impact in the physical world,
Speaker 2: So don't use words that limit what you're capable of doing.
Speaker 2: Helping people get rid of words without clear meanings, words
Speaker 2: that won't lead directly to the outcome they're seeking, is
Speaker 2: central to his coaching practice. I think, okay, so what do.
Speaker 3: I do so when we communicate to ourselves and other people?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Jane, I'm ah man, I'm really going to
Speaker 3: try to make your party on Saturday night. You know
Speaker 3: you're not you know they're not right. So but use
Speaker 3: the word and try. I will or won't or I
Speaker 3: can or I cannot be definitive. And the third word
Speaker 3: the word problem. Boy, this one's a tough one too.
Speaker 3: People want to just experience their world as one big problem.
Speaker 3: And when you when your unconscious mind is processing that word,
Speaker 3: it seems insurmountable. Okay, change the word to challenge. That
Speaker 3: was the very first one that my instructor said to me, goes,
Speaker 3: I'm going to challenge you to use the word challenge
Speaker 3: from now on instead of problem. I'm like, this sucks.
Speaker 3: I went back the next week because it's six weekend course.
Speaker 3: I'm like, that's hard. He goes, yeah, because you're fighting
Speaker 3: your unconscious mind, you're programming. Yes.
Speaker 2: John works with business leaders people who want to better
Speaker 2: communicate with their teams or colleagues or prospects. And he's
Speaker 2: also a life coach with individuals who want to improve
Speaker 2: their mindset, get ahead in life, stop getting in their
Speaker 2: own way. It's been really hard not to call his
Speaker 2: methods and NLP in general, how to get what you
Speaker 2: want by manipulating yourself and everyone around you. But I
Speaker 2: really like John, so don't tell him I said that.
Speaker 2: Did you just hypnotize me in anyway?
Speaker 3: Not necessarily.
Speaker 2: Say more?
Speaker 3: Well, I'm trying to condition you. Whenever we're in a positive, emotional,
Speaker 3: wonderful state, do we ever look outside of ourselves and go, boy,
Speaker 3: I wish this was even bigger and brighter. No, the
Speaker 3: answer is no, probably because we're inside and we're enjoying it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: we just we want to bathe ourselves in those emotions.
Speaker 3: They're so wonderful. That's what life is about. That is
Speaker 3: all that life is about.
Speaker 1: That's it.
Speaker 2: Wait, here's a question. Yes, when I'm in the most positive,
Speaker 2: happy thing, I literally the first and tell me why
Speaker 2: I do this and what's wrong with me.
Speaker 3: There's nothing wrong with you.
Speaker 2: I think kill me now.
Speaker 3: I guess that's what You're in a positive state and
Speaker 3: you say kill me now like dine out. Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: because that's what you want to end up there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just want to be done, like I don't
Speaker 2: I'm gonna choke.
Speaker 3: You don't use those words. Your unconscious mind is always listening,
Speaker 3: and it takes everything literally and personally. Oh you know
Speaker 3: I'm kill myself.
Speaker 2: No, no, I don't want to kill myself, but like
Speaker 2: when I'm gonna really use I think like kill me now, Like.
Speaker 3: No, don't say those Okay. Would you tell your daughter
Speaker 3: to say that?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: No, then why would you tell yourself and your unconscious
Speaker 3: mind to say that to yourself?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I come myself an idiot thirty times
Speaker 2: a day.
Speaker 3: I do. Your unconscious mind is always listening.
Speaker 5: Okay.
Speaker 3: It takes everything literally and personally.
Speaker 2: Before you left, John James Santangelo, who used to be
Speaker 2: a professional magician, had one last thing to show me.
Speaker 3: Watch this. Some people actually think this is real, like you,
Speaker 3: I'll be picked this up the pen.
Speaker 2: Yeah oh yeah. Now we're sitting at a table about
Speaker 2: three feet away from each other, longer than arm's length.
Speaker 2: On his side, there's a bottle of water on a coaster.
Speaker 2: On my side, there's a bottle of water on a coaster.
Speaker 2: And I have my pen and notepad right in front
Speaker 2: of me because I was using them. He stood up
Speaker 2: a bit, reached over and grabbed my pen.
Speaker 3: Now you think it's real?
Speaker 2: It is?
Speaker 3: No, it's not what because if I take it right
Speaker 3: and I say, it's not real because if it was real,
Speaker 3: I couldn't do this, or I couldn't do this, and
Speaker 3: I couldn't do this. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: So then now the pen was in his hands and
Speaker 2: then it disappeared.
Speaker 3: If I said it's not there, it's under here, you'd
Speaker 3: be like wow.
Speaker 2: And then it reappeared under the notebook. I was using
Speaker 2: my pen, my notebook.
Speaker 3: But that's what life is about. Impossibility.
Speaker 2: That was creepy.
Speaker 3: Thanks good word, not entertained. That was creepy.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 2: When this interview was over and John left, we in
Speaker 2: the office were in a complete daze. You know, like
Speaker 2: when you go see a matinee starring Dwayne the Rock
Speaker 2: Johnson and afterwards you walk out of the theater and
Speaker 2: into the peaceful daylight and you're totally disoriented. It felt
Speaker 2: itchy and confusing and intense. And maybe that's the whole point.
Speaker 2: I wonder how much that feeling, the feeling that something
Speaker 2: not sure what, but something happened, gets confused with NLP
Speaker 2: quote working, you know what I mean, maybe a little
Speaker 2: placebo effect's going on. I felt fired up and discombobulated,
Speaker 2: and I'm sure in that state if John were like, hey,
Speaker 2: want to sign up for another session, if he was
Speaker 2: my life coach, I would just be like, Yeah, let's
Speaker 2: get to the bottom of this, dude coming up. We
Speaker 2: talked to some folks who couldn't disagree with John Moore.
Speaker 2: After all, there are certain things, say being a woman,
Speaker 2: or impoverished, or gay, or a person of color, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
Speaker 2: You know, systemic bullshit that no amount of programming or
Speaker 2: willpower or effort can in our current society be made
Speaker 2: easier by an individual changing their mindset. Believe me, I've tried.
Speaker 2: That's next time on the dream.
Speaker 3: Meditating isn't going to help you deal with the fact
Speaker 3: in order to feed your children means you have to
Speaker 3: do two or three jobs or take nightshift jobs. It's
Speaker 3: like she put on a Blazer and she's an expert.
Speaker 3: They have been sold the American Dream. A lot of
Speaker 3: us have been sold the American Dream.
Speaker 2: The Dream is written, hosted, and executive produced by me
Speaker 2: Jane Marie. Our producer is Mike Richter, with help from
Speaker 2: Nancy Golumbiski and Joy Sandford. Our editor is Peter Klown.
Speaker 2: The Dream is a co production of Little Everywhere in
Speaker 2: Pushkin Industries. If you love this show, consider subscribing to
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