Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning.
Speaker 2: Breakfast Club.
Speaker 3: Morning everybody, It's DJ n V charlamagnea God. We are
Speaker 3: the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building.
Speaker 3: Show me a Christiana Murphy, Show me a Christiana Murphy.
Speaker 3: I didn't want you to attend.
Speaker 1: I've been practicing that. I've been practicing for the last
Speaker 1: five minutes.
Speaker 4: I was going. I wasn't sure who was going to
Speaker 4: do it, right, but both of you in Unison.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 3: I've been practicing last That's why I didn't really say nothing,
Speaker 3: because it was on my mind.
Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, he was really in thought when I
Speaker 4: came in. But I love it. Thank you.
Speaker 1: You have a book out right now called Fashion Killer.
Speaker 5: And before we get to the book, you know Sonia
Speaker 5: is the world renowned hip hop journalist.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, like what else?
Speaker 2: What other hyphenness would you put on that.
Speaker 4: Hip hop journalists on air host? And I've literally known
Speaker 4: shar since I was knee hydro grasshopper. I think I
Speaker 4: met him when he first moved from South Carolina.
Speaker 2: The fact.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then we did this show called POV on
Speaker 4: MTV seven episodes. If you stayed up till midnight and
Speaker 4: watched it, Thank you. It's now what's called classic. In
Speaker 4: my mind, it's like the paid in full of like
Speaker 4: hip hop shows. But yeah, so since then I've been
Speaker 4: able to interview so many artists and Fashion Killa is
Speaker 4: my first book. Wow drops ten ten, so order it everywhere.
Speaker 4: This is the first anthology about hip hop and high fashion,
Speaker 4: and obviously it comes out on Hip Hop fifty.
Speaker 2: Why a book about fashion?
Speaker 4: It's so interesting. The genesis was it started as an
Speaker 4: article in Double XL and as I was doing the research,
Speaker 4: I saw that there are no books about this and
Speaker 4: one thing about the lit space, and you know the
Speaker 4: shars that a lot of times hip hop stories just
Speaker 4: aren't elevated in the same way other genres are rock music,
Speaker 4: pop music. Right, it's still sort of seen is either
Speaker 4: niche or still kind of underground, to be honest with you.
Speaker 4: So to me, knowing hip Hop fifty was coming up,
Speaker 4: this is such a great opportunity to write, really that
Speaker 4: definitive story, that fifty year retrospective. And I'm one of
Speaker 4: those people. If I don't see it in the marketplace,
Speaker 4: well I might as well just do it myself, right.
Speaker 3: I was going to ask, you know what do you
Speaker 3: break down in the book, because you know when you
Speaker 3: go sometimes you go to Vegas and you go to
Speaker 3: Planet Hollywood, right, you see all these rock and roll
Speaker 3: idols on the wall, and you see their guitar, and
Speaker 3: you see their shirt, and you see there whatever, or
Speaker 3: you see some pop stars. I don't really see that
Speaker 3: that much for hip hop, which is concerned and we
Speaker 3: do have a lot of things that is pretty big,
Speaker 3: but you know, whether we're talking about uh you know, but.
Speaker 4: That's such of the run dmc adidas.
Speaker 3: Imagine like Cameron and Blue or Cameron's pink fur. You know,
Speaker 3: things like that that really step outside.
Speaker 4: Of the Smithsonian, right, the Cameron pink fur. But I
Speaker 4: think Envy you make such a good point. It is
Speaker 4: still this idea. Although hip hop is fifty, it's still
Speaker 4: not viewed kind of through that prestige lens. Right. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean you have the Smithsonian, you have these like
Speaker 4: little moments here and there, but this idea that it
Speaker 4: should be elevated and really treated with the gravitas that deserves.
Speaker 4: I think those are the opportunities. And for me, that's
Speaker 4: I just didn't see.
Speaker 5: That's because it's not I don't think hip hop has
Speaker 5: looked at through the lens of art, and it should
Speaker 5: be everyone.
Speaker 2: Salam Remy was.
Speaker 5: Up here and he had these big paintings of like,
Speaker 5: you know, some of our favorite hip hop artists. When
Speaker 5: you see it as a painting, you're like, oh, you
Speaker 5: look at it different on when they do the book
Speaker 5: of Whole exhibit in Brooklyn, you're like, oh, like, we're
Speaker 5: not looking at it through the lens of art.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And you know, for me, just having a hardcover
Speaker 4: book out, you open it and yeah, of course there's
Speaker 4: like forty great photos of like Biggie and Cam and
Speaker 4: Cardi B and all these people, but there's also history,
Speaker 4: their sociology, their's psychology. It's so much more layered than
Speaker 4: just a rapper war dope outfit. And I think a
Speaker 4: lot of times people see it through that cursory lens,
Speaker 4: and it's much more nuanced than that.
Speaker 5: Break down this coverle because I hit you when I
Speaker 5: told you this cover is fantastic, phenomenal, like break down
Speaker 5: that cover.
Speaker 4: So it's so funny. That cover was a little bit
Speaker 4: there were some back and forth, a little arguments with
Speaker 4: some people. So basically, fashion Killa is obviously a nod
Speaker 4: to the asap rocky song where he named checks like
Speaker 4: twenty seven brands. Right, he was saying brands that nobody
Speaker 4: had heard of, and I wanted something that really made
Speaker 4: it stand out in the marketplace. With the cover. If
Speaker 4: you look at again, a lot of hip hop books,
Speaker 4: it's like a guy with a big chain, something very
Speaker 4: sort of stereotypical or kind of looks cheap. If I'm
Speaker 4: going to be honest, and for me, I wanted it
Speaker 4: to look lux I want to look sexy. Even if
Speaker 4: you don't read one page, it's gonna look good on
Speaker 4: your coffee table. It looks great and selfies. So I
Speaker 4: wanted this to be a book. It's very much a
Speaker 4: nod to McQueen obviously with the skull, but again to
Speaker 4: differentiate it, to show that this is something different, it's special,
Speaker 4: and almost treat it like a luxury product. Right. I
Speaker 4: manags like walking down the street having a really sexy book.
Speaker 4: That's kind of an accessory. Right. And it's also a
Speaker 4: great conversation starter too.
Speaker 3: Do you break down how, especially in hip hop, how
Speaker 3: we make somebody these fashion brands cool? How a lot
Speaker 3: of times you look at somebody these brands, whether it's Gucci, Now,
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna say Gucci wasn't cool, but Gucci became
Speaker 3: cool because we started wearing it, whether it's Louis Vatan
Speaker 3: or whatever. Maybe do you break that down and some
Speaker 3: of the impact that we've had on those brands.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, you know, it's funny. One of the chapters is
Speaker 4: called nineteen ninety one and a lot of people don't
Speaker 4: realize Carl lager Fell did a whole hip hop themed
Speaker 4: runway show back in ninety one, and it was, you know,
Speaker 4: big chains and name plates and baseball cap to the side. Now,
Speaker 4: of course rappers and hip hop weren't given homage, right,
Speaker 4: but the idea that someone like Carl lager Fell for
Speaker 4: Chanelle was doing it all the way back then. The
Speaker 4: influence has always been there. Now, the thing is the relationship.
Speaker 4: I think very much starred as the outsider so hip
Speaker 4: hop not being accepted but also not being able to
Speaker 4: afford it. You got to think back to someone like
Speaker 4: Dapper Dan, He's like, the only people who could afford
Speaker 4: my stuff were drug dealers and athletes. Only then when
Speaker 4: Ell and Eric b Rock him, people like that Caine,
Speaker 4: when they were able to afford it, then they become
Speaker 4: the consumer, we go into the nineties, which is my
Speaker 4: personal favorite era, where we start to see Sean John
Speaker 4: and Rock Aware and all of these rapper led brands, right,
Speaker 4: and then now I think we're in an age of collaboration.
Speaker 4: So you have Pharrell over at Louis Vuitton. You see
Speaker 4: artists like Asap, Rocky or Travis Scott very much being
Speaker 4: partners with these brands. But you know, as we saw
Speaker 4: with Dapper Dan, I mean his sort of full circle
Speaker 4: moment with Gucci happened after they bit his style, right,
Speaker 4: and only after Twitter came and really rallied around him
Speaker 4: was he able to have this incredible comeback. I would
Speaker 4: hope it doesn't take outrage and those kind of scandals
Speaker 4: for hip hop to truly have a seat at the table,
Speaker 4: whether it be decision making, design or just being represented
Speaker 4: in fashion.
Speaker 3: Why do you think it's so difficult for black brands
Speaker 3: to succeed and have longevity?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: You named a lot of these brands, Sean John, who
Speaker 3: I don't even think it is in existing anything they.
Speaker 4: Are working on relaunching. He brought it, he bought it back,
Speaker 4: and he had a moment at the med Gala with it.
Speaker 4: And from what I've heard behind the scenes, just between us,
Speaker 4: is that they are working on some sort of a
Speaker 4: cap seal or relaunch.
Speaker 3: So why do you think it's so difficult for black
Speaker 3: brands to stay you know, longevity, or for us to
Speaker 3: even support them like that. You know, we support everything else,
Speaker 3: but not our black brands.
Speaker 4: It's hard. I think when we talk about rapper led brands, first,
Speaker 4: a lot of it is tied to the artists. So
Speaker 4: when the artist isn't hot, you don't want to wear
Speaker 4: their clothes no more, right, and so many of those brands.
Speaker 4: I mean, are you wearing Marshall Mathers clothing right now? Maybe?
Speaker 4: I mean I'm from Michigan, so maybe we always wear it.
Speaker 1: Mathea line.
Speaker 4: You know, there was woo wear. Remember bust A had
Speaker 4: a line dmxattle. There was the time everyone had a line.
Speaker 4: It was get a record deal, have one hit record
Speaker 4: to have a line, right. A few of them, Sean
Speaker 4: John Rock aware they kind of elevated where they were
Speaker 4: making hundreds of millions of dollars. But I think a
Speaker 4: lot of it is you can't tie something to something
Speaker 4: as seasonal as an artist trend, because when you're not
Speaker 4: the flavor of the moment, and it happens to everyone.
Speaker 4: No one wants to wear your clothes. I think the
Speaker 4: other part is just for brands. It's really expensive. A
Speaker 4: lot of people ask me why don't think then grappers
Speaker 4: want to have their own brands? Now do you want
Speaker 4: to spend your own money to have you know, focus
Speaker 4: on manufacturing and supply and all of these things distribution.
Speaker 4: It's a similar to the music business. There's a reason
Speaker 4: everyone's still signs to the majors. It's better to spend
Speaker 4: someone else's money.
Speaker 5: Does that mean that you put away your ovohity? Have
Speaker 5: you put any you know what?
Speaker 4: Shar So this is funny and I was a former
Speaker 4: Aubrey's Angels, I can say that amongst the former Aubrey's angels,
Speaker 4: that was a day one. I was day one when
Speaker 4: it was not cool to be a Drake fan, right,
Speaker 4: But he lost me somewhere after views. It's almost like
Speaker 4: that friend from high school that we have nothing in
Speaker 4: common anymore, and I kind of don't want to hang
Speaker 4: out with them, so I'll see you on social media,
Speaker 4: but let's never speak again.
Speaker 1: Damn right, what do you.
Speaker 2: Think it was? Do you think they disconnect it?
Speaker 4: You know, It's funny. I think from day one would
Speaker 4: always gravitate me towards Drake was he was vulnerable. That
Speaker 4: was his superpower when he stopped trying to act like
Speaker 4: Wayne or Jay and he was just this goofy kid
Speaker 4: from Toronto. Half white, nice, you know, white Jewish mom.
Speaker 4: That's what we loved about him. And in those vulnerable moments,
Speaker 4: whether it's brand new or too much like, those are
Speaker 4: the records that made me like Drake, and especially growing
Speaker 4: up when you're in your mid twenties. He was that
Speaker 4: perfect blend of emo and toxic, which is what all
Speaker 4: of us were dating and acting at the time. But
Speaker 4: now ten plus years later, I just feel like we
Speaker 4: grew in separate directions. And when I listened to this
Speaker 4: new album and let me know what your thoughts are,
Speaker 4: I was like, who is this? Who's Aubrey? And what
Speaker 4: I want from him now is a classic album. What
Speaker 4: is your magnum opus as a grown man, as a father.
Speaker 4: We know you have hits, we know you can get
Speaker 4: any single person as a feature. I want that definitive
Speaker 4: Drake album. Where's my four four four moment? Where's my
Speaker 4: life is good moment? That's what I want. From Aubrey.
Speaker 4: But so until then, the Ovio hoodie stays in the drawer.
Speaker 4: It's not coming out because I feel like I'm just
Speaker 4: a recovering Aubrey's Angel.
Speaker 2: That's fair criticism.
Speaker 5: But you know, even with the four for four, which
Speaker 5: I think is one of the most it'll go down
Speaker 5: as one of the most important hip hop bobles of
Speaker 5: all time that didn't come till.
Speaker 2: Jay was like in his mid forty, close to fifty.
Speaker 4: You know, I mean Drake is like thirty seven. Yeah,
Speaker 4: as a millennial, I will say that we love where
Speaker 4: Peter Pan. We don't want to grow up. But to me,
Speaker 4: listening to this album, if you're going to give me
Speaker 4: twenty three tracks, you got to say something because to me,
Speaker 4: usually a double album is a fail because what do
Speaker 4: you have to say for twenty three tracks? Life after
Speaker 4: Death speaker Box, Like, there are few of these moments
Speaker 4: that made sense when I listened to the album? What
Speaker 4: what did I glean? I just felt like I wanted
Speaker 4: my time back.
Speaker 2: Damn spoken from a Formers Angel.
Speaker 1: But I feel.
Speaker 4: There's like a heart group for us somewhere. Album right
Speaker 4: there has to be, But we have given so much
Speaker 4: to this You guys don't remember. There was a time
Speaker 4: in the music business Drake wasn't cool and I would
Speaker 4: have fights with people like charl Magno. He's a person
Speaker 4: and he's gonna be big, and you got to appreciate
Speaker 4: him and love him. And they're like, nah, he's first
Speaker 4: of all from Canada, so what does that mean? The
Speaker 4: singing rapping combo, you know, didn't really make sense. Then
Speaker 4: they thought he was kind of a goofball, like he
Speaker 4: came from true to grassy. But people like me were
Speaker 4: literally up. I'll never forget Midnight Valentine's Day two thousand
Speaker 4: and nine. So far gone, drops, hitting that Z share pressing,
Speaker 4: play tears, Wow, tears, Wow, I remember take Care came out.
Speaker 4: I'm like, this man knows my life story. Wow, start
Speaker 4: to finish Classic. So I've really invested in him. I've
Speaker 4: been to Ovo Fest, I covered it for Rolling Stone,
Speaker 4: like I have put in my owl points, and now
Speaker 4: it's time to pay.
Speaker 2: I guess that's why I'm just a little confused.
Speaker 4: Because like, you haven't put in your owl points. I
Speaker 4: know you haven't.
Speaker 5: I'm grown to appreciate him over the years. I've never
Speaker 5: been a real huge fan of his.
Speaker 2: His music.
Speaker 5: But I like the way he moves at certain times.
Speaker 5: I guess the only thing that's confusing me now.
Speaker 4: But you like how he moves as like a person or.
Speaker 5: As a person is he's gotten at a certain times,
Speaker 5: especially during that whole back to back era, like I thought,
Speaker 5: because the way he handled that was perfect.
Speaker 2: Oh you accused me and not writing. Okay, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: bar you up.
Speaker 4: But what about the whole pusher thing?
Speaker 2: Push it with?
Speaker 4: That's a rough one.
Speaker 2: Push it's a different beast.
Speaker 5: Though, Like, don't poke the bear, that is true, that
Speaker 5: is true to push it a different beast. Just I
Speaker 5: just think this album to me is just like it's Drake.
Speaker 5: Like I don't see any difference between.
Speaker 4: So it's mid twenty three songs of mid.
Speaker 2: It just sounds like Drake to me. It's just the
Speaker 2: sacond we've been getting.
Speaker 4: No, it isn't like again, I think you got to
Speaker 4: go back into the discography and now I'm gonna sound
Speaker 4: like I wrote a book about Drake. It's this idea
Speaker 4: that what really resonated. I mean, you go to so
Speaker 4: Far Gone, the standard track is brand new. It's not
Speaker 4: a great song. It's not even singing that well. But
Speaker 4: he's talking about dating somebody and feeling inadequate. How many
Speaker 4: men would openly say that their mixtape like is anything
Speaker 4: I'm doing brand new? And I remember that happened, and
Speaker 4: all of us were just collectively sobbing on Tumblr at
Speaker 4: the same time. Now I look at him, You're rich,
Speaker 4: any girl you want? Okay? And then what right? And
Speaker 4: I think right now in his life, had he given me,
Speaker 4: let's say, and now I'm going to be an ovo
Speaker 4: an R a double album. Maybe one half is Drake,
Speaker 4: one half is Aubrey, I'd been okay with that, Like,
Speaker 4: who are you at this life stage? You have a kid?
Speaker 2: You want to hit more?
Speaker 4: But yeah, like, I know nothing about this man, Whereas
Speaker 4: in the beginning I felt I knew about his mom,
Speaker 4: his uncle, his friends, and all of the issues he
Speaker 4: was going through. I know nothing about him. He like
Speaker 4: hangs out the strip club and it hangs out with
Speaker 4: like younger artists. He's his best friend.
Speaker 3: I think Drake gets busy rapping, when he wraps, he
Speaker 3: gets busy, hands down, he can go with the best
Speaker 3: of them. I think the problem with Drake is when
Speaker 3: he first came out, your hardcore hip hop fans were
Speaker 3: making fun of him, right, Charlmagne used to used to
Speaker 3: make so much fun. Charlamage's going to Princess Boy, and
Speaker 3: that was the thing that connected, right. So then he
Speaker 3: goes to this thing where I don't think he wanted
Speaker 3: to be himself and wanted to prove that he was
Speaker 3: a rap up.
Speaker 1: So then he started rapping.
Speaker 3: He started, you know, doing features with everybody to show
Speaker 3: you I can outrap people. But then I think he
Speaker 3: started losing his call, which was his women, which is yourself.
Speaker 3: So now he tries to do a balance of both,
Speaker 3: which I think is very difficult for himself, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean.
Speaker 4: And here's I want to be very honest. I love Bars, right,
Speaker 4: I'm the person who listened to Jay and Mob deep
Speaker 4: and big out. Like I hate when they say women
Speaker 4: don't like lyrics, like with what's the saying I made
Speaker 4: a track for the women. This is a song for
Speaker 4: the girls. No, No, everybody can like AllMusic, but to me,
Speaker 4: there's an emotional depth that's missing because you can do
Speaker 4: it over Bars. Jay has done it, Nas has done it,
Speaker 4: but I just need to see more than Okay, I'm
Speaker 4: the best, and you know, even just this idea of
Speaker 4: who he's collaborating with. He could call anybody. He can
Speaker 4: probably call Shade and get her on a track, right,
Speaker 4: Like Forty has worked with her on stuff you're working
Speaker 4: with yet Chief Keith like, it just feels like he's
Speaker 4: pandering to gen Z, right, And I don't You don't
Speaker 4: have to you make hits. People come to you. Give
Speaker 4: me something different like what Kendrick did. Right. Kendrick's like,
Speaker 4: I'm not going to give you a single laden album,
Speaker 4: but I'm gonna let you have such a look into
Speaker 4: my life that's so intimate, Like I feel I know him,
Speaker 4: his family, what he's going through. I need that moment
Speaker 4: from Drake and I think he could give a to us.
Speaker 5: I agree with you, and I think Kendrick's album is
Speaker 5: also going to go down as one of the most
Speaker 5: important hip hop albums of all time. But when the
Speaker 5: album came out, people was like, Oh, that's too much
Speaker 5: for me.
Speaker 4: You know, folks are these emotionally stunted people, you know,
Speaker 4: I think that's just Charle Man and his friends.
Speaker 2: This he has too much for me. It's a little
Speaker 2: too deep. I'm like, I loved it for the way
Speaker 2: I'm at in my life right now.
Speaker 5: I loved it him talking about therapy, doing the work
Speaker 5: on himself, you know, being faith with his wife like this.
Speaker 2: Dealing with his trauma. I loved it. I was like,
Speaker 2: this is if hip hop is going in this direction,
Speaker 2: I'm all for it.
Speaker 4: And think about our most iconic artists. Look at someone
Speaker 4: like Tupac, very complicated, controversial, but those moments he showed
Speaker 4: who he was, his vulnerability, that's what resonates. It's not
Speaker 4: just hit records. I mean a lot of people have
Speaker 4: hit records, but like, I'll never forget even you know,
Speaker 4: like when Biggie would rap about his mom. Those were
Speaker 4: the moments that just stuck with me, Like, you're an
Speaker 4: incredible rapper, great storyteller, but who are you? And I'm
Speaker 4: also a journalist, right so for me, even when I
Speaker 4: talk to artists, there's got to be more than just
Speaker 4: all right, So talking about the album vibes, Oh okay,
Speaker 4: I interview so many young artists. Now, so why do
Speaker 4: you want to be a rapper? I'm a brand, I'm
Speaker 4: a rock star. Oh so you don't even want to
Speaker 4: be here? Why am I here? You know? And I
Speaker 4: think that's just indicative of where we are sort of
Speaker 4: in culture where a lot of artists they're not thinking
Speaker 4: about again as the artistry you're creating art and putting
Speaker 4: into this world. And maybe again, I have high standards
Speaker 4: for Drake because you know, I put in my ovo points.
Speaker 4: But to me, as the biggest rapper out now, what
Speaker 4: he gave us, I think is going to be ultimately forgettable.
Speaker 3: I don't know how you say that for Biggie, right,
Speaker 3: because Biggie is my favorite rap Biggie j my favorite rep.
Speaker 1: I love Biggie right.
Speaker 4: What order?
Speaker 3: That's a tough one. I think probably it would almost
Speaker 3: be a tide. I'm gonna tell you why. I think
Speaker 3: a lot of people forget how nice Biggie is right
Speaker 3: until they go back and to listen to that album
Speaker 3: again and stuff that he said back then. However long
Speaker 3: twenty years Agody to die or life.
Speaker 1: After life after death?
Speaker 3: Right, But in that Biggie's music he does talk about
Speaker 3: his mom at times, but you don't.
Speaker 1: Really get to get into Biggie's life as much.
Speaker 3: He does a lot of stuff that no, I mean
Speaker 3: when he does the story to tell and he does
Speaker 3: the what do you do.
Speaker 1: When your man is untrue?
Speaker 5: Like when you see regular I was ready to Die
Speaker 5: on Suicidal Thoughts.
Speaker 1: Suicidal but that was the first album. That was the
Speaker 1: first album. You're talking the second named off the second album.
Speaker 4: Limits on the second album.
Speaker 1: But ready to Die and the other.
Speaker 4: One first, just imagine your first I'm called ready to Die.
Speaker 4: Just think about like that mindset, right, and the fact
Speaker 4: this young man and this album ends called suicide thoughts.
Speaker 4: He spoiler alert to anyoneho hasn't heard the album. He
Speaker 4: you know, unlives himself and this idea that to show
Speaker 4: that that's what resonated with people. I remember DMX, incredible artist,
Speaker 4: battle rapper, charisma. What resonates with people rare? Of course,
Speaker 4: those are those moments. And I'm not saying the whole
Speaker 4: album has to be emo, right. I mean, I love
Speaker 4: a good cry, but I think you can have the balance.
Speaker 4: So if a gonehead of balance, take care head of balance,
Speaker 4: even I would say nothing was the same. I mean,
Speaker 4: when he does too much, I think it's called with SAMFA.
Speaker 4: If you haven't seen that live performance, please do. He's
Speaker 4: literally talking to his family. He's like, we can't talk
Speaker 4: about these things in private, So I'm going to tell
Speaker 4: the world this is what's going on. How fame has
Speaker 4: changed you, Right, These are the things that I think
Speaker 4: fans resonate with.
Speaker 5: You don't think that Drake has enough catalog to where
Speaker 5: he can be considered a complex artist, Like he's just complex.
Speaker 4: I think he is. I mean, one thing we also
Speaker 4: got to give him. He has had an unprecedented run
Speaker 4: absolutely nine to twenty twenty three, and during the paradigm
Speaker 4: shift of people buying CDs to streaming, no one else
Speaker 4: has been able to work both of those very different mindset.
Speaker 4: And one thing I always give him and his team,
Speaker 4: they always have their mind and what's the next song,
Speaker 4: what's the next sound, what's the next scene, whether that's
Speaker 4: UK Drill, whether what's going on in Memphis with like
Speaker 4: block Boy, Like they know what's coming up Migos Versace.
Speaker 4: I mean, he was on it early, and I always
Speaker 4: give him props for that. But I don't know. I
Speaker 4: almost feel like, if I'm going to psychoanalyze him, I
Speaker 4: feel he's just going through some sort of like a
Speaker 4: third life crisis, like figuring out who he is as
Speaker 4: a person, as an artist, his legacy, and he's just
Speaker 4: kind of grappling with it. To me, that's why as
Speaker 4: I listened to it. I'm like, he doesn't know what
Speaker 4: to do.
Speaker 5: This is a season for anybody who puts out that
Speaker 5: much content. Yeah, you know, he's contently putting out a
Speaker 5: new project every year. This this might well be he's
Speaker 5: on right now, like he might. I have no doubt
Speaker 5: at some point he's going to give us that mature
Speaker 5: album everybody's looking for, because we know that's in him,
Speaker 5: because he was giving us that early on when we.
Speaker 2: Were clowning them, right, you were clowning yeah, when I
Speaker 2: was coming.
Speaker 4: I never clowned him.
Speaker 1: Yes, So I know it'll come back enough. Drake took, like,
Speaker 1: we get back to the book.
Speaker 4: By way, Drake, if you want to buy my books?
Speaker 4: And so for about ten minutes, that's great.
Speaker 2: What came first for you to love a fashion and
Speaker 2: love a hip hop?
Speaker 4: Oh? Love hip hop? Okay, one hundred percent. But so
Speaker 4: I grew up in Kalamazoom, Michigan, which outside of Derek Jeter,
Speaker 4: nobody else knows where that's from because that's where he's from.
Speaker 4: And you got to remember, we didn't have hip hop radio,
Speaker 4: we didn't have you know, concerts coming through like that.
Speaker 4: So so much of my relationship was through things like music. Videos,
Speaker 4: magazines like Vibe and The Sore and Blaze. So the
Speaker 4: music and the visuals really went hand in hand at
Speaker 4: a very early age for me.
Speaker 3: When you would when when you started off early on
Speaker 3: where your parents into it, because I know a lot
Speaker 3: of times when when hip hop started coming out, parents
Speaker 3: would like, get this rapid, rap ish out.
Speaker 4: I'll never forget and my mom is here, so hi mom.
Speaker 4: That they the first time they saw CD with the
Speaker 4: expletive like sticker, it made it gave them pause. But
Speaker 4: you know I had straight a's. I wasn't emulating that
Speaker 4: in any way. I couldn't even swear at home back then.
Speaker 4: I can barely do it now. And they were okay
Speaker 4: with it. But if you went to my bedroom, my
Speaker 4: bedroom wall was plastered silk, the Shaker, Beanie, Seagull nas Jay.
Speaker 4: I mean, it was very strange that I was the
Speaker 4: kid who went to Meyer grocery store and bought Blaize
Speaker 4: magazine in Kalamazoo. No of those words fit together, but
Speaker 4: they all fit together, you know. I think the good thing, though,
Speaker 4: is when you come from sort of a not like
Speaker 4: an epicenter of hip hop or fashion, you have a
Speaker 4: bird's eye view and one thing about this book, I
Speaker 4: wanted to be very inclusive. It isn't just New York.
Speaker 4: Of course, that's the mecca, you know, one fun store
Speaker 4: A lot of people don't know. August eleventh, nineteen seventy three,
Speaker 4: the famous Cool Herk House party. We talked about it
Speaker 4: with Hip Hop fifty right. The origin story. He was
Speaker 4: doing the party for his sister Cindy, who was doing
Speaker 4: it to raise money for her back to school wardrobe. Right.
Speaker 4: So from day one it was this sort of like
Speaker 4: the thread was there, but for me, it was important
Speaker 4: to focus on other regions. Have to go to the
Speaker 4: West Coast, have to you know, interviewing people like a
Speaker 4: Crooked Eye for example, had to go down south Young
Speaker 4: Thug Andre three thousand. How they push these gender boundaries,
Speaker 4: sexuality boundaries with their fashion as well as overseas. We
Speaker 4: can't talk about streetwear without Nego and Japan and all
Speaker 4: of those things, and showing this is really a global story.
Speaker 4: That was really important that it isn't just New York centric,
Speaker 4: and through sort of a male lens, focusing on the women,
Speaker 4: especially the unsung heroes, not just the artists, but designers, stylist, editors.
Speaker 4: With that April Walker. I mean, just a seminal figure
Speaker 4: in streetwear. She came up around the same time as
Speaker 4: Carl Kanai cross colors. She was dressing Biggie Tupac like
Speaker 4: all of these people, very early. But you know, for
Speaker 4: a variety of reasons. I think one thing just being
Speaker 4: her gender. She doesn't get those accolodes and those flowers.
Speaker 4: You know, similarly of people like Misa Hilton, Groovy MoU
Speaker 4: and Ambrose. Yeah. Absolutely, even people like kimoral Ley Simmons.
Speaker 4: People forget. I mean, she was running Baby Fat. That
Speaker 4: was a streetwear brand. We may not talk about it
Speaker 4: like we talk about Supreme and Stucy and those things.
Speaker 2: Even how you were shoting out all the women, he
Speaker 2: tried to slip a guy in.
Speaker 4: I heard it, and I didn't want to say anything.
Speaker 1: Shout outs to Groovy Lou, she said, Biggie, I know,
Speaker 1: Groovy Loud.
Speaker 2: She was shouting out the women.
Speaker 3: She was shouting out all women.
Speaker 4: He like back Door, she said.
Speaker 3: K she named another black brand, Yes she did. And
Speaker 3: I say, women, guys, do.
Speaker 4: We need couples therapy?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 4: All right, yes, I can play some drake and we
Speaker 4: can light again.
Speaker 2: What about a little Kim because you broke down her.
Speaker 2: Yea such a fashion.
Speaker 4: I I mean little Kim from day one? Who can
Speaker 4: forget that famous poster of hardcore. I don't know if
Speaker 4: you guys remember, but I think a lot of boys
Speaker 4: became men.
Speaker 1: That you and they saw that that was on the wall.
Speaker 4: It's actually currently on his.
Speaker 1: Wallcore the story.
Speaker 2: I got a homeboy who was high off hash.
Speaker 4: And he said this in South Carolina.
Speaker 2: Yes, And he said that Little.
Speaker 5: Kim climbed off out of that post and left.
Speaker 4: This isn't a magic eye. What was he trying to see?
Speaker 2: Like the he swears by that.
Speaker 4: That's kind of the greatest hash ever we found out
Speaker 4: who dealer was. Jesus, the best hash.
Speaker 1: South Carolina is what it was.
Speaker 2: But why do you think she's such a fashion?
Speaker 4: But yeah, so Little Kim very early on, she was
Speaker 4: very fearless. And this was a woman who embraced her sexuality,
Speaker 4: her body at a time that it still wasn't acceptable.
Speaker 4: I mean, if I was looking a lot of archival footage,
Speaker 4: she's sitting here in day ti TV, grown men and
Speaker 4: women wagging their finger and you're the downfall of America.
Speaker 4: But she stayed true to herself, and early on she
Speaker 4: worked with people like Dona Tella Versacei and Mark Jacobs.
Speaker 4: She became amused to them because in fashion, what's more
Speaker 4: exciting than a gorgeous woman who sits very proudly in
Speaker 4: her skin. But Kim, like a lot of artists, specially
Speaker 4: female artists, they never got their flowers. If you remember,
Speaker 4: Carti b was the first female rapper on the cover
Speaker 4: of American Vogue. Wasn't Kim, wasn't Fox, wasn't Missy Elliott,
Speaker 4: wasn't Eve all great contenders, by the way. So now
Speaker 4: a lot of people in the fashion world are talking
Speaker 4: about maybe she should get like a Lifetime Achievement award
Speaker 4: or something, because not only did she birth a generation
Speaker 4: of female artists, but so many designers have taken just
Speaker 4: her elements, from the wig, the makeup, the diy creations
Speaker 4: that she wore. She definitely represents somebody who was fearless.
Speaker 5: What was it about Virgil that made hip hop artists
Speaker 5: currently celebrate him the way that they do, You know,
Speaker 5: you don't really see that with designers like why Rogier.
Speaker 4: Well, Virgil came from hip hop, and there's a great
Speaker 4: picture in my book of Virgil Kanye, Fwnsworth, Bentley and
Speaker 4: a few other guys at Paris Fashion with.
Speaker 5: I remember that, yeah, that they used to.
Speaker 4: Kill that picture. But looking now, they all came dressed
Speaker 4: and they were peacocking. They were looking for the camera
Speaker 4: because and I interviewed Fwonnsworth for the book and he's like,
Speaker 4: we want to show we arrived. This was important that
Speaker 4: we are here as young black stylish men in Paris
Speaker 4: and you will take our photo. So Virgil came up
Speaker 4: with Kanye, was very close to him as a creative director.
Speaker 4: They were both interns together at Fendy. Now, look, I
Speaker 4: interned at bad Boy, and I'm pretty sure that they
Speaker 4: got to do more fun intern things at Fendy, Kanye
Speaker 4: and Virgil. But I love the fact that they wanted
Speaker 4: to earn their stripes, like no, no, no, we need
Speaker 4: to go to the source, and we don't want to
Speaker 4: just be the cool guys jumping in. We want to
Speaker 4: be respected. One thing Virgil I think did very well
Speaker 4: was he's a great dot connector. He will take someone
Speaker 4: from hip hop, someone from art, someone from this, you know,
Speaker 4: sports world. He was a DJ, so he had this
Speaker 4: interesting sensibility that he was able to touch with and
Speaker 4: you know, I think for a lot of people, myself included,
Speaker 4: we were just so shocked when he passed. So Virgil
Speaker 4: and also Andre Herrel sadly passed during the writing of
Speaker 4: this book, so I couldn't get to speak to them.
Speaker 4: But I think for a lot of people, we just
Speaker 4: that's like a hole that hasn't been filled, just this
Speaker 4: idea of this like nice, good guy who had so
Speaker 4: many interesting, cool friends and vision. And when he had
Speaker 4: that job at Louis Vuitton, it really felt like someone
Speaker 4: from hip hop made it like it wasn't just wearing Louis.
Speaker 4: You have a job there. You know, you're actually sitting
Speaker 4: at those tables with those decision makers. So he'll absolutely
Speaker 4: be messed.
Speaker 3: What what male artists do you feel revolutionized hip hop
Speaker 3: as far as fashion is concerned. Right, you talk about
Speaker 3: some of the things, and we still remember something and
Speaker 3: we had.
Speaker 4: To go back to the men.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 3: No, The reason I say is because we see it
Speaker 3: with Little Kim, we see it with Foxy Brown, we
Speaker 3: see it with See Besides, I'll be honest with you,
Speaker 3: besides Biggie and that koogie sweater, I can't think of
Speaker 3: something that people connected to and held on to it.
Speaker 3: I mean, you could say Jay Z with the Yankee
Speaker 3: fittings in Timberlands, but what else was was that big
Speaker 3: for the culture if you could think.
Speaker 4: I mean, if we're talking about highashion, we got to
Speaker 4: go back to the beginning and go to who was
Speaker 4: wearing Dapper Dan? Who can ever forget Eric b and
Speaker 4: rock him and those like Dapper Dan Jackets. I think
Speaker 4: later on, someone like Puffy was so instrumental where he
Speaker 4: could do anything because he came from that Andre Heral
Speaker 4: lineage of ghetto fabulis. He was the guy making Mary J.
Speaker 4: Blige where like the baseball shirt and the cap and
Speaker 4: the knee pads and that whole thing jo Toosy and
Speaker 4: then of course that goes to Biggie, right. I don't
Speaker 4: think without Puff Biggie would look the way that he looked.
Speaker 4: I think Puff as he said, and I think there's
Speaker 4: a great quote in the book I want to say
Speaker 4: from one of the track masters where Puff is like, no,
Speaker 4: my man is sexy, and they're like really, He's like no, no,
Speaker 4: That's why we need to one more chance, because he's
Speaker 4: sexy and with men like him, and he needs to
Speaker 4: look sexy. So someone like puff. Absolutely, of course, Kanye,
Speaker 4: Kanye forget this man continues to revolutionize fashion. When I
Speaker 4: go out, I see so many little Kanye clones to
Speaker 4: this day, right, like you just look like you walked
Speaker 4: out out of Calabasas Farrell from the Streetwear who popularizing
Speaker 4: Babe to then launching BBC, and he worked with people
Speaker 4: like Lagerfell, Mark Jacobs early before Louis Baton. One fun
Speaker 4: story because you know there's a big conversation hip hop
Speaker 4: who made bait popular. Soldier boy thinks it's him. Then
Speaker 4: there's you know, little Wayne said it was him. This
Speaker 4: launched a whole the clips mister me too, right, that
Speaker 4: was a whole thing. I have a great picture of
Speaker 4: Biggie wearing it in ninety seven, really before he wearing Babe.
Speaker 4: But there's an incredible story the fact that he was
Speaker 4: doing a photo shooting that the photographer draped it over
Speaker 4: him because he knew Nego and was like, hey, want
Speaker 4: to take this picture from my friend. And according to
Speaker 4: the story, Biggie wanted some Babe because they couldn't get
Speaker 4: in his eyes. He had to like custom order it.
Speaker 4: But he passed right after. Oh wow, Yeah, so there's
Speaker 4: that great photo. So that's one of my favorite pictures.
Speaker 4: And there's an awesome picture of Tupac in Milan. So
Speaker 4: right before he passed, he was invited by Versace to
Speaker 4: walk in the Runway show in Milan. It was Tupac
Speaker 4: Kadata Jones, who was his then girlfriend, and his bodyguards
Speaker 4: and they walked the show and then he performed I
Speaker 4: Believe California Love.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And apparently Gianni was a big fan of his
Speaker 4: and Johnny VERSACEI was smart about collecting celebrities and really
Speaker 4: having whether it be Madonna or Mike Tyson. He just
Speaker 4: liked celebrities and he was that designer that now we
Speaker 4: see celebs front row. It wasn't like that before. It
Speaker 4: was fashion editors, fashion buyers, like people who need to
Speaker 4: be in the industry. But Jihnny just saw the vision
Speaker 4: and he just fell in love with Pac. And yeah,
Speaker 4: so that right before he passed.
Speaker 2: Was wow, huge.
Speaker 4: And it's funny because he is a recurring character through
Speaker 4: this book and it goes back to what we said before.
Speaker 4: I really think, of course incredibly handsome, was able to
Speaker 4: wear clothing, but also his music and his perspective. He
Speaker 4: was the revolutionary. He was the icon who wouldn't want
Speaker 4: their clothes on Pok, so it makes sense. Another great
Speaker 4: story is how Carl can I met Pac. I don't
Speaker 4: know if you guys remember that iconic Carl can I add.
Speaker 4: It's pos sitting on a basketball rim and Carl told
Speaker 4: me is like, yeah, I really want to work with Poc.
Speaker 4: I'm in the hotel trying to ask him to work
Speaker 4: with me, and he's like, Okay, yeah, I'm gonna do
Speaker 4: it all right, Well, how much do you charge? Pok's
Speaker 4: like nothing, you're black. I would never charge my people anything,
Speaker 4: like how dope? Was he right? He could have worn anything?
Speaker 4: But he supports people like Carl Kanai, like April Walker
Speaker 4: the same way he supported Versace, and I love that
Speaker 4: about him.
Speaker 5: What do you hope fashion goes into the next fIF dy?
Speaker 5: Is we know what the last fift years of hip
Speaker 5: hop fashion looked like? What about the next fifty?
Speaker 4: I think the next fifty. I would love to see
Speaker 4: a rapper brand become an American heritage brand, the way
Speaker 4: that we wear Polo and Tommy Hill Figure and Calvin
Speaker 4: Klein and those things. Maybe it's Sean John. Maybe it's easy.
Speaker 4: Maybe it's easy. I think I think he falls or
Speaker 4: is I think he was?
Speaker 2: He was on his way.
Speaker 4: Okay, So here's the question, can you make a comeback?
Speaker 1: No, you don't think Kanye can make a company? I
Speaker 1: think I think he can make a comeback.
Speaker 5: Absolutely not if you're trying to trademark youth at a
Speaker 5: time like this.
Speaker 3: I will say it is a lot of people that
Speaker 3: love him, that don't care about what he said, that
Speaker 3: just love Kanye and will always support his cause, even
Speaker 3: when they banned his sneakers.
Speaker 1: This the price.
Speaker 2: Who's going to take the risk? Though?
Speaker 4: That's true. So it's funny. I was, you know. Oftentimes
Speaker 4: again within the industry, it's mixed. Some people say absolutely not.
Speaker 4: Others say he can, but there's gonna be a ceiling,
Speaker 4: like he can do some shows, but other shows like
Speaker 4: SNL probably isn't having him back. That said, talk to
Speaker 4: younger people, talk to gen Z. They love him.
Speaker 2: Operation is going to partner with.
Speaker 4: Okay, So this would be an interesting paradigm. What if
Speaker 4: he gets like his own VC and just does it himself.
Speaker 4: No need a carrying, you don't need an LVMH, you
Speaker 4: don't need Adidas. He has enough clout and I think
Speaker 4: enough supporters. Still, if he could just get some money,
Speaker 4: do it himself, and to me, that's a real model
Speaker 4: shift that I don't need you.
Speaker 3: He didn't build someone that already, didn't he have someone
Speaker 3: that already that he can make his own sneakers and clothes.
Speaker 2: And something of that.
Speaker 5: But you have to do direct to consumers on a doubt,
Speaker 5: I don't want to carry.
Speaker 4: You get all the money or if he can do that,
Speaker 4: and actually what can follow through and the orders come
Speaker 4: in on time and you don't get two shoes of
Speaker 4: different sizes like everything's on the up and up. I
Speaker 4: think that'd be a game changer. And who's out now.
Speaker 4: I can't see anyone else who has the connections, the
Speaker 4: clout and the cachet.
Speaker 2: The cultural cache is the biggest thing.
Speaker 4: I don't know what if he sends you free new Yeasy's,
Speaker 4: would you wear them?
Speaker 2: Oh? His sneakers are super comfortable. I haven't stopped wearing them.
Speaker 4: Well there you go, Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2: I still wait. Once I bought I got slides at
Speaker 2: the house right now.
Speaker 4: See there you go. So I think that would be interesting.
Speaker 4: But what I love about this book is it starts
Speaker 4: in nineteen seventy three ends in twenty twenty three. But
Speaker 4: the culture is living, so it's constantly shaping and changing.
Speaker 4: So reading this book, you get this great historical perspective,
Speaker 4: but I think it also makes you excited for the future,
Speaker 4: and that's something I like too. Oftentimes we you know,
Speaker 4: we kind of jokingly talk about everything sucks now and
Speaker 4: there's nothing good out now. But I think it's exciting
Speaker 4: that the future creatively and esthetically and commercially has a
Speaker 4: lot of opportunities.
Speaker 1: But we appreciate you for joining us.
Speaker 3: And I'm sure you go through my childhood stuff, which
Speaker 3: was cross colors and nice.
Speaker 4: And does anyone have some old rock Away or Sean John?
Speaker 4: Do you guys have like a storage unit or something
Speaker 4: I do? Don't you send it to me?
Speaker 2: I do?
Speaker 3: I got them dumb ass big jerseys. I got a
Speaker 3: lot of jerseys that's like size.
Speaker 4: Did you ever play lugs? I actually bought a pair
Speaker 4: of lugs.
Speaker 1: I've never had lugs.
Speaker 4: I don't know why I blae Plaze magazine. I think
Speaker 4: they had to add in it and it wasn Off
Speaker 4: Tims right, and I literally bought a pair of lugs.
Speaker 2: I don't think.
Speaker 4: Well, that's the thing too, there's a great story about
Speaker 4: initially Timbaland's weren't really messing with hip hop, Timberland, Carhart,
Speaker 4: all these sort of work where brands that we you know,
Speaker 4: we love, they're comfortable. They're like, no, we don't want
Speaker 4: to alienator Cork and I want.
Speaker 2: To say Biggie helped with Dad too, but Tims.
Speaker 4: Yeah, actually one, yeah, yeah, that was a big thing.
Speaker 4: Biggie versus Pac who popularized versace if you remember and
Speaker 4: hit him up, Park says, I was Versace not you
Speaker 4: forget that? Yeah, they always remember that opening bars of
Speaker 4: hit him Up. But even the fashion aspect. And that's
Speaker 4: a question because in the book I talk about you know,
Speaker 4: Haitian Jack, who was close to Paks, Like, no, I
Speaker 4: put him on Versace. It wasn't him. Yeah, it was
Speaker 4: the drug dealers and right Street, yes, the street guy,
Speaker 4: Street entrepreneurs, three entrepreneurs. But what he was, you know,
Speaker 4: I believe was for was it juice maybe or above
Speaker 4: maybe juice? He was just around Jack and soaking it
Speaker 4: in for his character. And Jack's like, but you copied
Speaker 4: my style. So that's another big question. Was it Biggie
Speaker 4: or Pac? Like when you think of Versace, do you
Speaker 4: think big or Pac, I.
Speaker 1: Think pak Yeah, I think when I think of Cougie.
Speaker 2: Why because of that line?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all about you copied my style.
Speaker 2: I hadn't heard Masachi until I.
Speaker 4: Couldn't pronounce it until I think Kanye said it's verse.
Speaker 2: Say, I can't think, you know what, what's the Biggie
Speaker 2: Versachi line? I can't even think of one.
Speaker 1: I'm sure, I'm sure there is one. But what thinks?
Speaker 1: What makes me think of notorious.
Speaker 2: The socks watch? Yeah?
Speaker 3: But I think of when I'm thinking notorious, when I
Speaker 3: see Gravy wearing it. Outside of that, when I see Biggie,
Speaker 3: I see Kugie.
Speaker 4: Yeah this this wea is Yeah, but that's not a
Speaker 4: Biggie wanted. He wanted to be the versace don too. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, the book is out right now. Appreciate you for joining.
Speaker 2: Revolutionary High Fashion. It's in stores right now. Go pick
Speaker 2: it up. Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Let's do it again, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 4: He was thinking about the hard.
Speaker 1: How did it? That's how I wrote it down, just
Speaker 1: the case.
Speaker 3: See how you know I'm a hip hop You know
Speaker 3: how you got phones deposits soon?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how christ Na Murphy.
Speaker 4: Wow, I like.
Speaker 1: It all right. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning, wake
Speaker 1: that ass up.
Speaker 2: In the morning. Breakfast Club